The Real Brandon Nimmo

brandon nimmo

Anyone who follows the Mets minor league system knows Brandon Nimmo hasn’t had it easy. Along with all the buzz that comes with being a top pick of a New York team, the early successes of fellow 2011 first rounder Jose Fernandez has only brought more intense scrutiny to the young outfielder. Last season, everything compounded into a disappointing season with Savannah, where he hit .273/.397/.359 on the year, with far less power than expected.

Nimmo began the season on an absolute tear, batting .392/.489/.527 through his first 90 plate appearances. Then, a hand injury put him on the shelf. Initially, it was only supposed to be a week, but a week turned into a month before Nimmo was finally able to set foot on the field again. Once back, Nimmo struggled… badly. He hit .228/.343/.305 through July. The walks were there, but not much else. For over a month after he came back, Nimmo had to wear two layers of tape on his hand, which set of a wave of mechanical glitches in his swing. Last August, Toby Hyde of Mets Minor League Blog talked to Nimmo and his coaches about the issue, writing:

When Nimmo returned from the disabled list, it appeared as though he did not trust his hands. This led to a cascade where he started landing with his front foot too close to home plate in his stride. By July, he was working to correct it.

Gnats manager Luis Rojas explains, “What he was doing, striding too close, and it was causing him to get locked middle-in and inside. Now, he’s more fluid with his hips going through the zone and keeping his bat longer.”

Nimmo feels the difference, “I was getting into a little bit of a bad habit of closing myself off. And I still do a little bit. But by shortening my step a little bit more, it keeps me a little bit more even at the plate. The more even I can be, the better I can get to the outside pitch, the better I can get to the inside pitch.”

According to Mets’ Hitting Coordinator Lamar Johnson, “The next step for him is just to get a consistent swing. Right now, he’s showing that swing sometimes, but he’s gotta get it a little more consistent and that’s the maturity part of it.“

Nimmo became a dead pull hitter, not only hitting less but also striking out at an absurd rate. It would be August until Nimmo would finally turn it around. In August and September, Nimmo hit .315/.468/.398. That’s still not a lot of power, but for a left-handed hitter in Savannah who is as raw as the scouts say he is, that’s not bad. Power develops late, and with Nimmo having missed significant time in high school due to injury, the home runs may come later for him than for most.

Understanding the scope of the injury Nimmo suffered last year is crucial to putting his numbers in context. Sure, his struggles can partially be attributed to being a lefty playing half of his games in Savannah, but there was likely more than that. Rojas said Nimmo was “striding too close,” which was “causing him to get locked middle-in and inside.” That’s a nightmare for a hitter and will drive players with even the best plate discipline and pitch recognition skills into a slump. Looking at where Nimmo was hitting the ball in May through July versus how he has hit in August and this season, it’s clear the injury if not hurt for months after, affected his mechanics. Obviously we don’t have much video evidence on the minor league side, but we are now getting much more data than we used to from the minor leagues. Here is a comparison of Nimmo’s spray chart from May-July with that of last August.

brandon nimmo

If anything, when Nimmo was heating up, he was hitting the ball just as much the other way as he was pulling it. Coincidence? Can this be attributed to a small sample size? Check out this year’s chart.

Brandon  Nimmo_HeatMap (2)As we can see, this is clear evidence that Nimmo saw his swing altered last season. The quotes, stats, and data all back this up.

I’m certainly no apologist for any Mets prospect, but those who labeled Nimmo a bust last year were sorely misguided. Yes, Nimmo was off the disabled list, but you can’t look past an ongoing side effect of the injury as nothing. The Mets drafted Nimmo with the expectation that he could hit to all fields, which he has done with flying colors when healthy. This year is no hot streak for Nimmo. This isn’t a fluke. Nimmo’s strikeouts have plummeted and he’s hitting the ball the other way with authority.  This is the real Brandon Nimmo.

*Hit charts courtesy of MLBFarm

MMO

About Connor O'Brien 315 Articles
Connor O'Brien is a second-year economics student in the Rutgers University Honors College, a lifelong Mets fan, and an editor here at MetsMerized Online. He embraces a sabermetric point of view in his articles, but doesn't believe this conflicts with scouting or player development. Follow him on Twitter @connor_obrien97
  • HarveyKsYou

    Hunter Pence with less power, but much better discipline. That’s a very solid player.

  • calamityfrancis

    its shin soo chop.

  • calamityfrancis

    autocorrect hates me spelling Shin Soo Choo.

  • Looks like Nimmo is tearing up A+ ball !

    This year he”ll stay in A+ ball

    next year he’ll stay in AA ball

    2016, he’ll stay in AAA ball

    2017, we’ll call him up in July so we dont have to worry about his arb date comin up til 2023…

    by then, Nimmo will be 23…

    and thats assuming NOTHING bad happens…

    YAY !!!

    2018 is ours !!!

  • Frank Francisco

    Nimmo likely has a better eye and could draw more walks than Pence.

  • Just hope he can stay healthy. Seems to have a bit of a glass jaw (all over his body).

  • Bail4Nails

    Mets need an Outfielder yesterday. Now that we found “the real Nimmo”, can we start moving him up a little quicker? Prospects mean nothing until they produce for the Mets.

  • on a side note..

    would a healthy, young productive matt reynolds, enable us to trade david wright?

    matt was drafted as a 3B, moved to SS, where he has failed defensively…

    could we see an infield of..

    3B – Reynolds
    SS – Tovar
    2B – Flores
    1B – Murphy ( replaced by Dom Smith in 2016 )

  • another side question…

    is the whole hunt for ur pitch ( and take the first 2 pitches no matter what) philosophy going to be scrapped in the minor league level as well?

  • Connor O’Brien

    Nimmo is a project. Dont disrupt his development for an immediate need.

  • Bail4Nails

    I understand. I’m tired of hearing about our great MiL teams while our Major League one stinks. When does one ever become the other with the Mets?

  • Met Fan 4 Life

    Shin Soo Chop sounds cooler, though.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Sorry if you wanted major league ready talent in the minors, look to the 2007-2010 time period. Those are the guys who are just arriving.

    The lack of dedication to the development of players then led to the lack of talent coming out of the minors now. It is starting to flow with the 2007 IFAs appearing and a few of the 2008-2010 draftees showing up.

  • calamityfrancis

    ha, it sure does. sounds like some sort of professional wrestling move.

  • jessepmmo

    You won’t know if he is a bust or not until he plays in the big leagues or nets the Mets a significant player via trade. All you can do is hope

  • The Nihilist

    You state that Nimmo was drafted because of ‘the expectation that he could hit to all fields, which he has done with flying colors when healthy’

    Take another look at your spray chart. The vast majority of his balls go to left field, his opposite field — which is an alarming sign for someone in low A ball. Is his bat slow? Maybe. Time will tell. But most MLB hitters hit occasionally to their opposite field. Punch and Judy types go the other way predominantly. There are exceptions, of course, but with scouts already wondering about his bat speed, this is a red flag waving in the wind.

  • gameball

    Nimmo will be promoted to AA if he keeps this up, probably after the FSL all-star game.

  • The Nihilist

    You have that reversed. In the draft, the Mets should have ignored Nimmo FOR the immediate need. This team doesn’t have the luxury of waiting 5-7 years for high schoolers, who, by the way, fail at an alarming rate.

  • The Nihilist

    Check out the 2011 draft. College players are just starting to hit the majors, and certainly more will next year. Do you think in all your wisdom that the Mets had the luxury of drafting high school players while deliberately ignoring college players who might be helping the major league team this year and next? Nimmo and the rest won’t sniff the majors for 2-3 years. I guess that’s the plan you so herald.

  • RyanF55

    It’s good to see him developing – what else can we ask for? He was a project and he’s currently completely under construction so-to-speak. He’s got all the ability but things will take time. He’s still multiple years away. but its certainly good to see him hitting well in A ball. Let’s see how he adjusts to AA and AAA.

  • $14435385

    He’ll be in AA by year’s end and AAA to start next year. If he excels, he’ll be a mid season call-up in 2015 – at minimum he gets a cup of coffee at the end of the year. Take a breath.

  • Andrew Herbst

    I’m looking forward to seeing Nimmo continue to develop.

  • $14435385

    Or a Korean pork dish….

  • metsfansince64

    People underestimate the effect of his hand injury last year. In fact, it was much worse than originally diagnosed (misdiagnosed in reality). He had an MRI in Savannah, which came up clean. However, he had lingering pain, even after he returned, so he ultimately ended up seeing specialists in both NY and Cleveland around August. The new diagnosis was a “dislocated joint and partial tear of a couple of ligaments.” He played most of the season with that problem, unbeknownst to the Mets or himself. Before the injury, he was totally raking. The wonder is he had as good an overall year as he did, considering how he was handicapped both by the injury and by the stadium he played in. Small wonder that MiLB chose him as the most likely “Mets breakout prospect” for this season.

    What nobody could have predicted, however, was his amazing plate discipline. He leads the FSL in walks – 45 the last time I checked. With his BA around.340, and his OPS around .940, he is definitely one to watch going forward. I hope he forces them to move him to Bingy mid-season and accelerate his time clock.

  • Connor O’Brien

    Agreed.

  • Connor O’Brien

    Its not being scrapped at any level.

  • Connor O’Brien

    When you rebuild, you take high ceiling players.

  • $14435385

    He’s 21, still growing into his body, and a contact, line drive hitter…learning to pull the ball with authority is usually the last thing that develops for that kind of profile. I’d be far more worried if he was pulling the ball the majority of the time, because that would indicate he’s disinclined to let balls travel deep in the zone – which will lead to much bigger problems as pitchers hone their breaking pitches and learn to better locate their fastballs at higher levels.

    A guy with an advanced eye who can hit the ball the other way with regularity has a ton of value, as we saw this offseason with Choo signing for $100M+. As you say, we’ll see what happens.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Yeah just like the college players drafted by the Mets in 2007-2009. How are they doing?

    How are Kunz, Havens, Ike, and Holt treating you?

    You realize from 2005-2010, the Mets selected only one player in the first round who was a HS player. And you wonder why they havent produced many All Stars. Only Harvey had a terrific showing, Ike was so so and the rest flopped including Pelfrey who was rushed because of an immediate need.

    Yet you want to duplicate this same behavior.

  • Chuck

    But not quite as good as Mu Shu Pork …

  • Taskmaster4450

    In skimming the MLB 2014 top 20 prospects, it seems only 2 came from the college ranks….the rest were either HS picks or kids from the IFA market.

    It seems that if you want top notch talent in your farm, the HS and IFA markets are the way to go. Yes it does take a bit more time but eventually the guys do work their way up with others coming in behind them.

  • The Nihilist

    Yes. I do agree that only pulling the ball presents some issues too, but he’s at a level where its mainly fastballs, and not great ones at that. Its alarming that he is going the other way so much. And more than one scout wondered about his bat speed. One even said he had a slow bat. And add in that you can wait for the ball more in the low minors. Lack of power, hitting the ball primarily to the opposite field are cautionary signs still.

  • The Nihilist

    At least not until Alderson leaves or is fired.

  • The Nihilist

    When, exactly, did you get to be such an expert? MANY teams rebuild / restock with college players (check out Cardinals). Mets did not have the luxury of the 3-5 years more of development. Springer went two picks ahead. Are you suggesting that he couldn’t have been more of a help to this team, right now?

  • The Nihilist

    Such the expert you are. How’s Alderson’s picks for San Diego turning out?

    How’s Springer turning out for the Astros? Nothing more telling than a know it all who knows little.

  • The Nihilist

    Why you don’t have a job with a major league club is the true mystery.

  • Taskmaster4450

    With comments like that it is amazing you dont have a job at a national think tank figuring out worldwide problems.

    Simply because you have nothing valid to add to the conversation because you lack the intellectual baseball material within you, that doesnt mean you have to resort to lowlife bards. Well I guess it does.

    Thank you for commenting even if you do not have any insight.

  • $14435385

    We may be witnessing the birth of a Korean restaurant version of Who’s on First here… (Hu’s on First?)

  • The Nihilist

    Here’s a little fact for you — though you are not big on facts, just bluster.

    Of the 59 draft-eligible All-Stars in 2013, 25 (15 National League, 10 American League) were drafted, and signed, directly out of high school.

    Just to do the math for you. That’s less than half. Closer to 40%. Yet, according to you, there are more successful high school draftees. You can’t make this stuff up.

  • The Nihilist

    Gees. You are something.

    Yes, you are full of insight, all right. Braggarts talk like you do. Know it all braggarts that the rest of us laugh at. You are so FULL of yourself.

    What think tank do you work for again? And for the record, I do work in a sort of think tank. In fact, I’m president of the company.

  • Connor O’Brien

    When did YOU become an expert? Lol
    When a farm is dry of high ceilong prospects, you should restock, college or HS. There are high ceiling college guys too. When is the best time to take project players? When you are rebuilding.

  • Taskmaster4450

    You credit a CEO with the draft picks? Well then I guess we have to ask Jeff how his picks over the last 10 years are.

    And you cherry pick one guy. How about the host of college guys from the 2011-2012 drafts who havent done crap…who are mired in the minors? No you conveniently ignore them.

    The simple fact is your fix it now outlook is the reason why the Mets are so bad and they have a couple decades of being pathetic. Look at the best players the Mets developed and you will see most of them are HS Or IFAs.

    Do you know the names Wright, Reyes, Alfonso, Hundley, Strawberry, Gooden? Notice none of them were college picks. The only guys you can put in there from the college ranks, Seaver and Koosman were acquired in the 60s.

    So you tell me Mr Smartguy, where did the Mets high end talent come from?

    Sorry but the Wilpon Method is long tried and failed.

  • Connor O’Brien

    Alderson was the CEO, not the GM.

  • The Nihilist

    Not exactly. Harvey, very high ceiling. 2 years to majors. Fernandez, very high ceiling. 2 years to majors. Springer, very high ceiling, 2 years to majors. And check how the high ceiling prospects Alderson drafted on the Padres.

    You just need to know how to draft. Like you do.

  • Connor O’Brien

    Alderson did not draft players in SD.

    And yes, there are high ceiling college players (which ive acknowledged?. However, HSers tend to be higher ceiling.

  • The Nihilist

    Yes. Master. I bow at the waste to your unending brilliance. What a waste of a brilliant baseball mind. It must be so frustrating.

  • Taskmaster4450

    You are saying the Mets should have drafted a guy who was chosen two picks ahead of where they selected?

    Just check out each year’s all star rosters and notice how many of the guys are IFA and HS draftees. The numbers dwarf the college guys.

  • PessiMets

    if i remember correctly, everybody in mlb was stunned the mets took nimmo with their first pick and almost everybody thought he would still be there to them at the 2nd round especially considering that he did not play any organized ball. he was picked three years ago? and still has probably another 3 years to go?

  • The Nihilist

    Take a read, Task. Like Conner, you might learn a few things about your leader.

    http://metsminorleagueblog.com/uncategorized/san-diegos-drafts-under-sandy-alderson/

  • The Nihilist

    Take a read of this article. You might learn something.

    http://metsminorleagueblog.com/uncategorized/san-diegos-drafts-under-sandy-alderson/

  • Sylow59

    Then shouldn’t you be doing some important executive stuff?

  • Connor O’Brien

    He has 1-2 left

  • maybe…just maybe…

    college players spend very little time in the minors compared to IFA’s…

    where would Michael Wacha rank if he were still in AA ?

  • The Nihilist

    Do I need to hold your hand the whole way?

    Think. The debate is between high school players being drafted, as opposed to college. So you really want me to check out All Star rosters????

    Here’s a response I posted directly to you:

    Here’s a little fact for you — though you are not big on facts, just bluster.

    Of the 59 draft-eligible All-Stars in 2013, 25 (15 National League, 10 American League) were drafted, and signed, directly out of high school.

    Just to do the math for you. That’s less than half. Closer to 40%. Yet, according to you, there are more successful high school draftees. You can’t make this stuff up.

  • TruthOverLies

    Wrong…..you take the best player available.

  • The Nihilist

    Yes. Because I’m so important. Your word, incidentally.

  • higher ceiling = aka projection.

  • Connor O’Brien

    Do the math for college kids

  • The Nihilist

    Thank you.

  • Connor O’Brien

    What defines “best”?

  • The Nihilist

    Time.

  • TruthOverLies

    18% of 1st round picks make the majors. It’s why “rebuilding” through the draft is senseless.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Cabera-IFA
    Verlander-College
    Hamilton-HS
    Mauer-HS
    Pedroia-College
    ARod-HS
    Morneau-HS
    Vlad-IFA
    Tejada-IFA
    Ichiro
    Giambi-College

    I just looked up the list of the AL mvps from 2000 on just to see the breakdown…3 college guys in the entire lot

    Seems the MVPs mostly come from the IFA and HS ranks.

  • funny how u left out…

    matt harvey…college player
    ike davis …the guy who was ranked 5th in ROY in 2010
    daniel murphy….one of our best hitters..
    dillon gee..college player

    would u have passed up on michael wacha in favor of DC for 2012, knowing wacha’s success?

  • The Nihilist

    60% of the players in the All Star game were NOT drafted out of high school.

  • Jose_Who

    Is that not exactly what he just said? lol

  • Taskmaster4450

    All IFAs and draftees are projections.

    Wouldnt you say guys like Miggy and Trout fulfilled those projections.

    By the way, FA signings are also projections. Teams expect them to do what they did in the past. For Cano, this year, it continued. For BJ Upton, he is in year 2 of not living up to what he did in Tampa.

  • Connor O’Brien

    I did learn something.

    It’s not like Alderson was picking players by himself, nor was that his primary role.”

  • The Nihilist

    3 out of high school is a compelling argument, Thank you, Task. I guess 3 out of college means nothing to you?

  • TruthOverLies

    The guy with the best talent numbers on the board. Obviously some Billy goat who played against little competition isn’t the type of player you want to draft in the 1st round.

  • no. paul depo was in charge of the draft.

    and one of kevin towers gripes was that depo did not report to him, he reported straight to sandy, who had final say on draft picks…

  • The Nihilist

    Passing over facts for his own agenda is Task’s speciality.

  • The Nihilist

    Great point. Its part of the plan. NOT the only plan.

  • astoriacub

    source?

  • The Nihilist

    He was the boss. His finger prints on everything. Final approval. Dictated policy, etc. But don’t stop deflecting, Conner. You’re quite good at it.

  • TruthOverLies

    Anything to defend TeamLoserGM

  • Connor O’Brien

    “Best talent numbers”??

  • Taskmaster4450

    More cherry picking.

    Why didnt you mention Naquin, Stratton, or Ramsey….all college guys the Mets could have had instead of GC who havent been in the majors.

    As for your reference to my post, did you not read that I said Harvey had a terrific showing and Ike was so so.

    And if you are basing your drafting success on Murphy and Gee, then that shows how bad it was. Murphy and Gee are nice pieces, solid major league players, that is all. The Mets should have 6 guys their calibar on the team.

    Thank you for making my point.

  • The Nihilist

    They’ll post anything, and then swear its the rest of us who are ignorant.

  • Connor O’Brien

    So what was the number for college players?

  • Taskmaster4450

    Thank you for making my point for me.

    I love debating with those who are ill equipped to do so.

    So 40% of the All Stars were drafted out of high school…less than half.

    You do realize that there are three ways a guy finds it to an organization…

    1. Drafted out of HS
    2. Drafted out of College
    3. IFA

    You seem to forget about the last one. So, now if we are skilled in basic math, that is 33%. That means the HS draftees make it at a HIGHER rate than the statistical norm.

    Sorry but try again.

  • PessiMets

    The organization’s plan is to have Nimmo play a full season at every level, meaning his major-league debut might not come until late 2016, according to reporter Jared Diamond (WSJ, May 20).

  • Chuck

    There we go … LOL. Actually, it’s a Chinese dish, and it has varied spellings, including Moo Shu Pork. And it’s very good, one of my all-time favorites.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Sorry pal but the Wilpon Method was tried and failed….repeatedly.

    You advocate a model which has proven nothing to be a loser than rail against something that is proven to work. That to me is stupidity. You have no leg to stand upon. There is more than a decade of Wilpon foolishness which you and your ilk advocate. That is pure insanity.

    Spend more. Fix it now. Draft guys who are going to be here next week. Rush things. The big league club needs help now.

    Sorry but there is little to be said for this mindset other than to rail against it.

  • Sylow59

    LOL:

    1) “In fact, I’m president of the company.”

    2) “Yes. Because I’m so important. Your word, incidentally”

    Presidents of companies do work that tends to be important.

  • nimmofan

    It’s nice to the the power coming along he should’ve had 2 more last night that were knocked down by the wind. He’s going to be something special if he can stay healthy. He’s also starting to steal more bags which is very nice to see.

  • The Nihilist

    I found it curious why you didn’t ‘look up’ the NL MVP’s over the same time frame. And then it quickly became apparent the kind of guy you truly are. Why didn’t you post NL MVP’s??????

    Here’s why. ONLY one came from high school. Here’s the college drafted MVP’s:

    Braun
    Posey
    Pujols
    Howard
    Bonds
    Kent

    When you include only what is in your agenda and leave out that which negates it you lose all credibility.

  • Metfan9876

    Yeah and they said if he’s playing very well he will be promoted accordingly.

  • The Nihilist

    Not a big fan of passive / aggressive tactics, Conner. Clearly it shows that drafting high school players is not the way to rebuild. Certainly as you lecture NOT the only way.

  • goorru

    Billy Beane’s philosophy is to mostly draft College players they are older and are less of a risk.

  • The Nihilist

    What’s your point? I never brought it up until he decided to insult me. So yes, I’m president of a company that develops products — some very important ones for the military.

  • The Nihilist

    Please. Task doesn’t like facts that out of line with his agenda.

  • Metfan9876

    Well the guys batting .340 right now in High A, so I’m not too worried at the moment. Also, you said Low A, so I’m assuming you are talking about last year when he still did not quite trust his hands.

  • The Nihilist

    You are a laugh. Can you put aside the insults long enough to actually see your lack of logic?

  • Metfan9876

    Also, the scouting report I read recently on him said his bat was not slow, just that he didn’t have elite bat speed

  • The Nihilist

    Wilpon method????????

    This is your favorite line. I remember a number of GM’s making the calls, just like this one.

  • The Nihilist

    But I like your way much better. Slash payroll to third world nation levels. Draft high school players who will be here next decade. Have attendance decrease by millions. Have fan descent at its most virile. Nice plan.

  • The Nihilist

    I’m not down one bit on Nimmo. But his spray chart is clearly indicating he hits to left field the most. That’s alarming to me. And one scout did say he had a slow bat. Hope he’s a star.

  • Sylow59

    I fealt safe until 7 minutes ago.

  • The Nihilist

    You’re right. I hope he works out, and is a star. Like you, I have to watch this team everyday. Frankly, I still think drafting someone closer to being able to help the major league team was the prudent strategy, given the ugly set of circumstances surrounding the franchise.

  • Connor O’Brien

    How does that show iw?t?You are not putting it in context. How does it compare? Im not saying its the only way, as I said high ceiling players, which could mean HS or college.

    Also, its ConnOr.

  • The Nihilist

    That’s funny. We make medical knee braces and prosthetics for injured soldiers. Laugh yourself silly.

  • The Nihilist

    Connor.

  • TheMets philosophy

    When is this years MLB draft?

  • Connor O’Brien

    Lol it was right there

    Anyway, i would be interested to see how it is divided up between the three categories.

    But taking the highest ceiling player is usually the best

  • The Nihilist

    In a perfect world, perhaps. But the boat is sinking and time is not a luxury.

  • The Nihilist

    Funny guy … anything?

  • Ike was so-so?

    Ike was drafted in 2008, and was 5th in ROY voting in 2010…
    he was on pace to have an excellent 2011
    he had 32 HR in 2012 ( even with valley fever )

    Also…

    Degrom = college

    funny how u dont mention lastings milledge…

    ur the cherry pie picking queen here

  • he said draft-eligible

    IFA’s are NOT eligible for the draft

    who’s ill-equipped for a debate?

  • fdterr

    June 5th

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    GAVIN CECCHINI >>> BRANDON NIMMO

    I’m Just saying…………………………………
    (Need to see more Cecchini articles)

    GAVIN CECCHINI = TROY TULOWITZKI 2.0

    REMEMBER where you heard it 1st 😉

  • The Nihilist

    Bravo.

    He’s actually the master at cherry picking. Comes from drinking too much Kool-Aid.

  • so if u look at total MVP’s in AL and NL

    u can see just lost that arg.

    good night

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    Im already looking forward to next years draft when we’ll have a Top 5 Pick 😉

  • nothing better than cherry kool-aid

  • The Nihilist

    LOL!!!!

  • RyanF55

    I am certainly rooting for him – he’s got all the tools. Finding success in this game takes much more though – hopefully he gets the mental makeup to match the physical.

  • gameball

    Really? Cause he’s not showing it now. But I’ll remember where I heard it if he does.

  • gameball

    He wouldn’t have made it to the 2nd round. He was projected 30-35th, so the Mets did pick him high, but teams knew his upside. If he had come from SoCal or Fla or anywhere but WY, he would have been ranked higher.

  • BehindTheBag

    I hope Nimmo blossoms into a big-leaguer.

  • $14435385

    I was referring to Shin Soo Chop, since he’s Korean. But pan-Asian is all the rage these days, so I think we’re covered…

  • gameball

    What agenda? Picking the BPA? I’m all for getting a college guy who may be ready sooner, but not over a clearly better HS prospect if one is available.

  • The Nihilist

    Clearly better? He never played high school ball. He was, at best, a project — long shot one at that. And they passed on Fernandez deliberately to draft Nimmo because he was a position player. But keep thinking they drafted the BPA.

  • gameball

    Never mind—I just read below. I can see you two are good friends.

  • The Nihilist

    He’s my favorite. I post — and he always corrects me. Kind of like a online stalker.

  • The Nihilist

    That is the number. Why so obtuse for such a bright boy?

  • Frank Francisco

    I think he edited the post lol

  • Sylow59

    Well, if true then you’re doing a good thing. But, you seem to be upset that I didn’t know what you did and take pleasure in blind-siding people. The way you disceminate information leaves much to be desired. You need to work on that.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    Because youre too focued on Batting average and OBP thats why.

    Really look at what Cecchini is doing in Savannah the worst place to hit in A-ball.

    GAVIN CECCHINI

    170AB, 10Dbl, 3Trpl, 3HR, 6SB, 1CS ..259AVG/.326OBP/.406SLG./732OPS

    Now Cecchini is a SS, but look at the POWER numbers then glance at the base stealing ability thus far compared to what Nimmo did last year in the same ballpark

    BRANDON NIMMO

    395AB, 16Dbl,6Trpl, 2HR, 10SB, 7CS .273AVG/.397OBP/.359SLG./756OPS

    If Cecch continues to grow things could get REALLY interesting around here. Im more excited about him than I am Nimmo or Plawecki. He’s a hard worker I liked him in the draft because he is a Crazy Hard worker.

    I wish @Mets Maniac were still around we have a running bet going on Cecch since draft day.

  • goorru

    They(Sandy & Co.) did admit they weren’t picking the best player available.

  • 2006

    Depo joins SD

    ===================================

    http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?c_id=sd&content_id=1531020&fext=.jsp&vkey=pr_sd&ymd=20060630

    SAN DIEGO — The San Diego Padres announced today that Paul DePodesta, former Executive Vice President and General Manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers, has joined the Padres as Special Assistant for Baseball Operations. DePodesta will report to CEO Sandy Alderson

    ===================================

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove08/columns/story?id=3725229

    But beyond the payroll limits in place, there are constraints as Towers goes about the task of reshaping the Padres. Special assistant Paul DePodesta, the former Los Angeles DodgersGM, reports not to Towers but directly to CEO Sandy Alderson and must sign off on player moves.

    “It’s a mess,” an industry executive said about the situation. “That whole organization is totally dysfunctional.”

    ==============================

    Sandy Alderson

    Paul Depo

    JP Ricciardi ( remember his fiasco in Toronto )

    Jeff Wilpon

    “That whole organization is totally dysfunctional.”

    what could go wrong?

  • sure.

    hey im not opposed to drafting HS players.

    i think its always a mix of HS/College/IFA/and free-agents

  • The Nihilist

    You mean like C Young, and to some extent, Granderson?

  • The Nihilist

    My company does certainly make medical products for the military, and also for the rest of us, too.

    Blindsiding you? Please. You send a caustic remark about feeling safe when we make medical devices for, among others, wounded veterans of combat, and I blindside you with the truth? Maybe you aught to be more discerning when you send mocking posts.

  • Guest

    One of many.

  • Connor O’Brien

    60% is not the number. IFAs…

  • The Nihilist

    Posted more than once, but here’s one of the medical products made for the military.

  • calamityfrancis

    so you like players that make lots of outs?

  • Hitmanᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ✔

    How awesome would it be if Nimmo & Plawecki get promoted in September 2015?

  • The Nihilist

    What makes you even funnier is that according to his hitting coach (former), this isn’t even the way that Alderson would build this team if he had the payroll.

    So ironically, it is you doing the bidding for your best buddies, the Wilpons, whose rebuild this truly is. Or should I say decimation of a franchise.

    Now that hysterical.

  • Hitmanᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ✔

    What are you gonna say if the Mets draft Trea Turner?

  • Connor O’Brien

    That would be very cool

  • Connor O’Brien

    Wasn’t this whole article about how Nimmo’s numbers last year aren’t indicative of him as a hitter?

    I’m excited for the season Cecchini’s had too, but I am excited for Nimmo as well.

  • for the money they gave Nimmo, they could’ve signed 10 IFA’s that were just as talented.

    Nimmo is a project, the way Ruben Tejada was a project at age 16

  • everyone loves pointing to the cardinals and red sox when they want to somehow miraculously associate those 2 front offices with moneyball..

    but they get real quiet when it comes to talking about how those same teams draft college players and sign expensive free-agents.

    Imagine if the mets had Kolten Wong at 2B?

  • Not4

    Exactly. I would be shocked if he is not moved up to AA in about 2-3 weeks immediately following the FSL all star break. From there, it will move as quickly or slowly as his performance (not necessarily stats) dictate.

    And, BTW, that comment about full season at every level (unless a prospect forces their hand) was more of a organizational comment, as opposed to applicable just to Nimmo. Think it was in part to temper expectations on a kid like Dom Smith, who should play an entire year at A ball before being promoted.

    Think it is entirely realistic for Nimmo to get half a season in AA this year and if all goes well there, he could find himself in AAA by early 2015.

  • Connor O’Brien

    You could say that no matter who the Mets picked.

  • Not4

    So did 14 other teams. What’s your point?

  • The Nihilist

    Work on the reading comprehension, ConnOr. Here’s my quote:

    Of the 59 draft-eligible All-Stars in 2013, 25 (15 National League, 10 American League) were drafted, and signed, directly out of high school.

    Just to point you in the right direction. ‘Draft-eligible’ is the key qualifying phrase. So, 60% it is. Which, correct me if I’m wrong, is more than 40%, right?

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    Not to get political, just curious, do you manufacture here or abroad? Whatever the case, your efforts are impressive and much appreciated!

  • gameball

    I thought this thread started with a discussion of the 2014 draft. How does Nimmo enter into it?

  • gameball

    Do you mean when they picked Nimmo? I was thinking about the 2014 draft.

  • goorru

    Yes and the year after

  • nimmofan

    Just asking but I heard the Sox are looking for a CF. We got one making a little over 7 mil they can have for nothing

  • Connor O’Brien

    They are associated with sabermetrics, not necessarily Moneyball.

  • nimmofan

    Yankee fan lol, this team can’t even lose right.

  • Connor O’Brien

    This is stupid because this isn’t what the argument is about. You did say that in one comment, but you also said “60% of the players in the All Star game were NOT drafted out of high school.”

  • Connor O’Brien

    I love how we can pick and choose who was responsible when to create our agendas. The CEO and the Asst. GM picked all the players in SD, but now the CEO and Asst. GM don’t. Now it’s all on Alderson.

  • nimmofan

    The problem wasn’t the pick it was that the major league team was bad and going bad for a few years. If he keeps progressing the way he is he will help this team when they are ready to win. And a major part of it as well.

  • nimmofan

    Been to many of St Lucies games and trust me bat speed is not lacking it’s his hitting approach and it’s working. He’ll be fine.

  • Connor O’Brien

    That also doesn’t prove that college players don’t tend to be lower ceiling. The numbers back it up. High schoolers tend to be higher ceiling. Your numbers are the way they are because most draftees go to college. Nonetheless, you should be taking high ceiling (no matter where they are from) if you are rebuilding.

  • TruthOverLies

    Yes, “best talent numbers”….Of course, a booknerd needs clarification, because it doesn’t make sense to him. It’s not written on the Saberlovers notebook. In their enlightened mind, they think they’re deserving of exact terms, explanation and all.
    This is what happens when you’re assuming you’re smarter than you really are….

  • TruthOverLies

    I’m not excited about the next Tim Bogar, sorry.

  • TruthOverLies

    After all the years of playing ball, at times I feel I could use some of those devices in the winter…lol.
    Good job, dude.

  • Connor O’Brien

    What is a best talent number exactly?

    And please stop with the other crap. You’ve never met me.

  • TruthOverLies

    It’s a grade a prospect is given, genius. It’s not rocket science.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    Id say, “THERE IS NOTHING BETTER THAN HEALTHY COMPETITION!!!!”

    😉

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    Ruben Tejada = Tim Bogar

    Cecchini = Troy Tulo(minus being injury prone)

  • Connor O’Brien

    I did a google search for “best talent number.” It doesn’t exist. But whatever…

    That itself is vague. How do you define best? Is it best right now? Best in five years? Best stats? It’s not as simple as “most talented”

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    And my post was about Cecchini being a better prospect in my book which needed more love around here.

    😉

    #TeamCecchini

  • TruthOverLies

    It’s the grade a prospect receives before he’s drafted, genius. Geez, you aren’t this slow, are you? lol….
    Gotta love teenagers who think they can question adults who have experienced life like they never have…..nor ever will for that matter, simply because they’re a member of a blog.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    Id settle for responses that made a lot of sense

  • Connor O’Brien

    You just completely ignored my whole post explaining Nimmo’s bad numbers last year without any reasoning.

    (And yes, #teamcecchini!)

  • Connor O’Brien

    What kind of experience do you have in the baseball world? Just being alive an extra 30 years doesn’t mean you suddenly know everything about everything.

    Using vague terms like “best talent number,” which isn’t a real thing, and then using them to try to make me look stupid isn’t helping your case at all.

  • TruthOverLies

    lol….I dunno about that one. Tulo was ripping up the minors when he was promoted. Spent less than 2 years in the minors. There’s no way you’re comparing these two, man…Come on lol

  • TruthOverLies

    A ton more than you will ever dream of having, that’s for sure.

  • Connor O’Brien

    Ah. I see…

  • TruthOverLies

    And being alive 25-35 years longer than you have assures me I will know more about life’s experiences…experiences being the operative word. You should learn your tolerance for alcohol before you think you can school anyone YOUR SUPERIOR, young man.
    When you develop a skill, then you can talk. For now, all you’re really “skilled” at is Sabermetrics. Next to my knowledge, you’re a rookie.

  • Connor O’Brien

    Good job!

  • TruthOverLies

    Because it’s one of probably 5 DOZEN things I’ve experienced in life that you couldn’t possibly measure up to me in…..got it, young man?

  • Connor O’Brien

    I would love to know the MLB teams you’ve played for or the front offices you’ve worked in.

    Come on. We’re all fans here.

  • Connor O’Brien

    There is really no need for the hubris.

  • TruthOverLies

    So if someone never played professional baseball, you believe everyone is of equal baseball knowledge and skill? Is that what you truly believe? That’s bordering on complete ignorance and lack of respect. It also goes to prove that you yourself never had any true skill for this game. If you did, you wouldn’t make such an outlandish comment and presumption.
    Hopefully when you’ve developed a skill other than blogging, someone will come in and mock your abilities because you didn’t reach the top of the mountain in said profession….
    You truly have the mind of a teenager. It’s the reason adults look down at teens and don’t waste their time talking ADULT themes with them.

  • Connor O’Brien

    What could possibly give you this much self-confidence other than being a professional baseball player/operations person? What made you an expert? Watching games on TV for years??

  • TruthOverLies

    What makes you believe, as an unaccomplished teenager, you measure up with someone who played the sport? So if I’ve painted 1000 homes, while you just read books on how to paint, you believe you would be equally as skilled as I would be?

  • Connor O’Brien

    Using your analogy, you are the one who has painted the houses, correct? That implies that you have been involved in the sport professionally.

  • TruthOverLies

    Or better yet, what if I played high school, college and say perhaps 2 dozen leagues in between, a paid coach for 5-7 years, while you are simply a teenager who has never played vs MEN. You honestly believe you’re as skilled or knowledgeable as I am

  • Connor O’Brien

    That still wouldn’t justify the high-and-mighty way you are approaching this conversation.

  • TruthOverLies

    No, its does not. I could be a simple general contractor. I’m not painting million dollar contracted deals.
    My analogy is based simply on experience…..your lack of it

  • TruthOverLies

    You are the one questioning me, young man. Scroll back to your highly questionable motives which were obvious. In no way, shape or form should you EVER question your superiors.

  • Connor O’Brien

    “In no way, shape or form should you EVER question your superiors.”

    I’m so glad the world doesn’t run this way. It would be a far worse place…

    And I was not the one who stooped to the level of name calling. I didn’t call you a booknerd. If you’re so knowledgeable, shouldn’t you not have to resort to that? Shouldn’t your superior reasoning win out?

  • Connor O’Brien

    It’s not simply the experience that’s valuable, but what you learn from it. If it doesn’t help you explain draft strategy and forces you to resort to just spouting your experience, what good has it done?

  • The Nihilist

    I listed in a earlier post the MVP’s since 2000 in the NL who were drafted out of college. Its a list of HOF. Bonds and Pulols to name two. Its very difficult to make a statement like that and back it up with fact, since much of that determination is subjective. Check the list out. They are very HIGH ceiling college players.

  • TruthOverLies

    The world does work this way. Inexperienced people should NEVER question their superiors.

  • Connor O’Brien

    Of course there are. Yet, there are also more players that are drafted out of college and make the majors.

  • The Nihilist

    Thanks. One of our products in development is a lightweight knee brace specifically designed to keep the knee from rubbing bone to bone. If it goes as planned, its perfect for weekend warriors like us.

  • Connor O’Brien

    That’s awesome! Keep up the good work!!

  • TruthOverLies

    Draft strategy should be to take the best player out there. The Mets didn’t do that with Nimmo. That’s the entire point of this exercise. You’re simply too busy worrying about meaningless insults to see the point. That’s the defend TeamLoserGM stuff you’re pre-occupied with. Not my problem.

  • Connor O’Brien

    I’m sure glad the young college students of the women’s rights movement, civil rights movement, second and third wave of feminism, and the gay rights movement didn’t do that.

  • Connor O’Brien

    But what is the “best”? Is it the one who projects better in five years? The one who is the best at the moment? The one with the best stats? Be more specific. OF COURSE you want to take the most talented player available. How you go about doing that is the question.

  • The Nihilist

    Hey Connor. I’ve been a bit hard on you but for a young man you are quite impressive. And I know when someone has the guts and skills to stay at it, and you have both.

  • Connor O’Brien

    All I can think of right now is
    War is peace
    freedom is slavery
    ignorance is strength

  • TruthOverLies

    And none of those political arguments have anything to do with someone who doesn’t have talent telling others how things should be done. You don’t call an exterminator to kill a computer virus. When we’re talking about skill, inexperienced people shouldn’t argue something they’ve never done before.
    Case and point. Someone who has never driven a car before shouldn’t try to explain how drive a car in the snow.

  • The Nihilist

    Very difficult to determine bat speed by watching from the stands. He’d be pulling more, and certainly would have more home runs if he had elite bat speed, if only by statistical probability. You should be more concerned, though I hope he’s a star for the Mets.

  • The Nihilist

    Agree with the first part; not the second. Nimmo won’t be established until Harvey is ready to go. Very lousy timing.

  • Connor O’Brien

    As I’m not based in St. Lucie, I don’t get to see too much of Nimmo’s hiting, but I’ve never seen bat speed as a concern in any scouting reports or write-ups. It could still be a problem of course, but this would be the first time I’ve heard it brought up.

    I think if he was late on pitches, he would also be striking out more right?

  • Connor O’Brien

    And that’s exactly what all those people were told.

  • The Nihilist

    Yes it is what the debate is about. Draft eligible players means college and high school. Not IFA. So the balance are college drafted players. Its really quite logical.

  • Connor O’Brien

    Wow, my snark is on a whole new level today. Sorry! That’s what getting no sleep does to you I guess…

  • Connor O’Brien

    I mean the college vs. high school argument isn’t really what this is about.We were originally talking about high ceiling vs. early arrival prospects.

  • The Nihilist

    The header is ‘The Real Brandon Nimmo’. What does the draft have to do with that?????

  • Connor O’Brien

    Thanks Nihilist! Sorry I’ve been really snarky today. AP tests are over but I’m still getting no sleep…

  • The Nihilist

    It has zero to do with 14 teams passing on Fernandez. Don’t be so defensive. The point is the Mets were NEVER going to draft Fernandez because of an Alderson mandate to draft a position player.

  • The Nihilist

    Here, in US. Its mandated through the Barry Act. Thanks, too.

  • The Nihilist

    Get used to it. Next it will be college, then career, then kids. Sleep is not an option!

  • they associated with WINNING.

    Something Sandy is not associated with.

  • WOW

    Robert Brender @robertbrender · 19s

    Nimmo said the #Mets preach their hitting philosophy regularly. If a player gets away from it they have “emergency meetings” to get on track

    The Mets obsession with their 1 size fits all philosophy sounds very stepford wive ish to me….

    sounds like thats why puello is sitting…

  • The Nihilist

    And that is primarily why a ‘less’ high ceiling college player in 2011 might have been the wiser choice. He’d be here, helping.

  • The Nihilist

    Do you have ANY integrity or ethics when it comes to what you post?

    MLB top prospect watch for 2014 draft has 11 college players listed in top 20, and 9 high school players. Here’s the link. I wish it was all make believe where to could make up ‘facts’ to suit your own needs but it doesn’t work that way in the real word.

    Despicable. Truly is.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/

  • The Nihilist

    Not really. Many players in high school ball swing late NOT to strike out, but put ball in play.

    That post was meant to reply to someone else, BTW. He apparently watches Nimmo a lot.

  • The Nihilist

    I was actually talking about perhaps compromising ‘high ceiling’ for solid major league help in a shorter time frame.

    When the boat is taking on water you don’t worry about how great the boat is. You start taking out the water.

  • The Nihilist

    Best year of my life in softball was when I made the decision to stop pulling the ball. Found out I had a lot of power to right center. Not home run, more double. But my average was highest it had ever been, or would ever be again.

    Then next season (nd many more after) I started pulling again. I was in love with home runs. But there were a lot of fly balls and pop ups in between. Way too many.

  • L.J. Phipps

    I agree Mike B, hitting the ball the other way only adds to the hitter’s arsenal. If you can hit the opposite way with consistency you will go from a .240 hitter to a .320 hitter. David Wright use to go the other way on a consistent basis and I thought he was going to turn into one of the best right handed hitters around, but he can end to get pull happy and that increases his strikeouts. When he was hitting at Shea, his power was to right center and he was a .300 hitter. Citifield may have some drawbacks, but other players seem to do well when they visit. Nimmo has to learn the entire field, the power will come. You will find that you can easily turn on one in when they fear you making consistent contact on the outside.

  • Connor O’Brien

    They use sabermetrics. They are both very data-heavy organizations.

  • Connor O’Brien

    I know.

  • Connor O’Brien

    They have compromised at points, but you have to go with the high ceiling usually IMO. Minaya got himself into trouble for doing that. It usually doesn’t work. You don’t pick for need.

  • gameball

    Oh I don’t know, maybe because you responded to a comment about the 2014 draft.

  • wow…

    arenado would look mighty good for us at 3B….

    tsk tsk tsk ..

  • everyone uses sabermetrics.

    Even Omar Minaya in his first year, used statistical data gathered by John Ricco to determine what was the maximum amount of years they should offer to Carlos Beltran before he would see a severe rate of decline.

    they compared Carlos to bernie williams, who saw a severe decline rate at age 34.

    there is a difference between using sabermetrics and going the Sandy Alderson extreme route.

    Sandy doesnt believe in fielding and defense being as important as it should be.

    sandy believes a manager should not have the final say in the lineup and the team should implement an organization’s philosophy

    this is why a superior manager like tony larussa would never work with sandy alderson.

  • Destry

    Yeah, just imagine if we downgraded at 2B.

  • wait…

    u think murphy is a better 2B going fwd than wong?

    wong is 23…

    already hitting .283 against MLB competition…

    and Wong…is a natural 2B…

    in terms of defensive runs saved..

    Murph will COST 14 runs at 2B

    Wong will SAVE 34 runs at 2B

    I say put Murph at 1B

    nothing demonstrates this better than 2011 season

    Murph at 2B = a negative 14 runs
    Murph at 3B = saves you 11 runs
    Murph at 1B = saves you 23 runs

    Duda at his absolute best this year is saving 4 runs per year

    Right now if u got across the infield..

    Wright = +5
    Tejada = -4
    Murphy = -14
    Duda = 4

    thats a negative 9 runs below avg collectively for the infield…

    now if simply move Murph to 1B, move Tovar to SS, field either Flores or Tejada at 2B.

    whatever offense u think u lost with Duda at 1B, u more than made up for in total defense..

  • Destry

    With the exception of OBP, MURPHYs offensive numbers are right in line with McCutchens since the beginning of 2013. The reigning NL MVP does get CS more often though. Wong is better defensively, but IF he reaches his absolute ceiling at the plate, then he is Daniel Murphy

  • The Nihilist

    Yet that is the point here, and how it escapes very smart people like yourself and many others on MMO amazes me. They DID pick for need. Quotes to the effect from Depodesta that they passed on all pitchers (and certainly liked Fernandez at that slot) to look for position players, and then took it a step further and looked specifically for high school position players. That’s text book definition of picking for need.

  • The Nihilist

    Re-read the thread. Not sure what planet you’re on but the thread is not about the 2014 draft.

  • piazza4aday

    What the Mets “need” is a true cleanup hitter. A carlos delgado. Whatever position that hitter comes at is irrelevant. Me make the moves to accomodate him.

  • Connor O’Brien

    They picked for minor league need, as they were short on position player prospects. That’s much different than picking for major league need.

  • Connor O’Brien

    1. What makes you think he throws out defense? Is it
    Moneyball?
    2. If he didn’t believe a manager should have lineup control, why has he given Terry free rein to create the horrible combinations he puts out there?
    3. Everyone implements their own organizational philosophy
    4. The Red Sox and Cardinals use sabermetrics about as much, if not more, than most other teams in baseball. Everyone uses it but they are notorious for using it well and often. I wouldn’t have said it if they were just like the average team.

  • The Nihilist

    Its a bizarre way to run a major league club. Cardinals farm exists for one reason — the major league club. You’re too smart not to realize that minor league depth is secondary to major league depth.

    No one needs position prospects in the minors in a void. They need them to fill roster spots on at the major league level. That’s the disconnect with this GM, and with many, like yourself, that find a farm system’s depth so critical. Look at the the unmitigated wave of players coming out of the Mets farm system today that were the product of the last GM. Calling the farm system Alderson inherited depleted is a bold face lie.