Time For Mets To Put Up Or Shutup

sandy alderson winter meetings

I got a bit of a reaction yesterday after mentioning that despite the acquisitions of outfielders Chris Young and Curtis Granderson, and starting pitcher Bartolo Colon, the Mets are still sitting at about $82 million in payroll, and about $10 million less than last season.

It seems like the Mets are looking to unload Ike Davis and his near $4 million contract before they do any additional moves – almost as if they are hog-tied. Ridding themselves of Davis would instantly put the Mets payroll at about $78 million. You would have to assume that they would still add another ten million in one or more acquisitions, but the point is that payroll will likely not exceed $90 million which would rank the Mets somewhere around 23-24 in payroll ranking among all 30 MLB teams.

You don’t normally see a New York market team in any sport sitting near the bottom of their league in spending, but these are the Mets and it is what it is.

While other teams have spent significantly and increased their payrolls generously this offseason, courtesy of a new MLB TV deal that gave every team about a $30 million windfall, the Mets are barely keeping pace with last year’s payroll budget – a budget many thought was too low in the first place.

This is not to say that the Mets need to spend their way out of a five-year losing streak, but only to point out where the Mets stand as compared to all the other teams in the league.

It’s a little disconcerting when small-market teams like Minnesota, Milwaukee, Seattle and Cincinnati are the teams we’re now looking up to as far as spending goes.

On the flip side, teams like Tampa Bay and Oakland have thrived while sitting at the bottom of the payroll rankings, but who remembers what Paul DePodesta said when the front office was first introduced to the New York Media? “Moneyball with money.”

That never happened.

jeff wilpon winter meetings

The Mets will pay Colon, Granderson and Young $31.25 million in 2014. If you were to take the Mets at their word when they said the Bay/Santana money would be reinvested, they still have about $19 million to go. But I doubt that happens.

You may remember back in November, when Sandy Alderson floated the term “payroll concentration” when justifying why he wouldn’t sign another $100 million player. He said that adding a second player like that to go with David Wright ($138 million) would hurt the Mets calling it a “historical fact.”

That’s great and all, but sooner or later Wright is going to begin his decline. The Mets need to put together a team that can win while we’re still getting All-Star level production out of him. If we’re lucky we have a -3-4 year window. The time to strike is now.

Ownership keeps talking a big game about increased spending and flexibility this offseason, but the facts scream something else entirely.

Fred and Jeff Wilpon can’t keep half-assing things by allowing Sandy to fix one part of the team and not the other. I’m not the biggest Sandy Alderson fan in the world, but I’m smart enough to know that his hands are still somewhat tied. And this time you can’t blame the bloated contracts because they are all now gone.

The only people to blame for not having enough money to transform this team into a contender are the people in the owners’ box.

We waited five long years for them to get their financial house in order. But now it’s time for them to pay us back for sticking with this team which has been not worth the price of admission.

Break out the cash or get the hell out of dodge.

mmo

About Joe D 7837 Articles
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73, '00 and '15, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction and interact with other passionate Met fans like you. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
  • SRT

    Many of us predicted the Mets wouldn’t spend any of that money coming off the books this off seasons – myself included.
    Looks like the only money they’re spending is that approximately $30M windfall.
    I still haven’t changed my mind on the Mets being broke.

    And I would be happy if just Jeff would shut up…..

  • I mentioned this on another thread, but pocketing SNY money is a crime. We are at a huge disadvantage with our MLB talent level. Our farm is middling, again, not a competitive advantage. And if we cannot spend outside of the bottom third of MLB payroll, for a team in NYC with its own TV network, yup…another HUGE competitive disadvantage.

    This is why I have no hope for this team despite all the light that is fighting its way through the dark.

  • ReedRothchild

    They CANNOT spend money.

    Not sure why this is so unfathomable to so many.

    Now this is not a defense of the awful Wilpons, but they owe hundreds of millions of dollars this year, and even more in 2015 by most accounts, and for all intents and purposes, banks and bondholders are the Met front office right now.

    Major blog writers could do Met Nation a massive favor by learning about economics and then explaining it to the fans.

    They are not “pocketing” money, they are not being “cheap”, etc.—they owe an incredible amount, revenues have shrunk dramatically, and they remain in a desperate struggle to retain ownership.

    That is why they cannot and will not spend much more.

  • Agee’s Catch

    We need a lead off hitter. Badly. If that player could be a shortstop, then all the better.

  • Hotstreak

    “The only people to blame for not having enough money to transform this team into a contender are the people in the owners’ box.”

    Yes, they do not belong there but thanks to Selig they are there.

    I wish I can give you a “like” but instead I will salute you with:
    this^ which SRT made an MMO trademark.

  • ReedRothchild

    If that player could also play 1B, bat cleanup, and be a good bullpen arm, we’d really have something going.

  • SRT

    Ha!
    Couldn’t have said it better myself.

  • SRT

    OT:
    Dang, I really miss the ‘Most Recent Comments’ box to the right with this new format.

  • Tacohow

    Then they should not own a team

  • Bail4Nails

    I like bashing the Wilpons as much as the next guy, but I don’t get blaming Sandy. I could see if Tulo was available for SS this offseason, you beg, borrow and steal to get him. Even if Sandy ordered the Wilpons to give him a blank check, what big name player would he buy? Nelson Cruz? If he can trade for a young stud shortstop/leadoff hitter, I give him an A this offseason. No huge “Jason Bay” contracts were signed, yet we got Granderson and Colon. Chris Young I don’t really understand, but then I didn’t get Marlon Byrd last year. If you gotta be cheap, Sandy seems like the right guy to hold your money.

  • As soon as I get it working properly, I will put it back up. I promise. Hey, Happy New Year SRT. You’ve been with us for at least 5 years now and I always enjoy your interaction.

  • CyYout

    Who cares about payroll? The only way payroll matters is if it prevents the team from acquiring a player deemed too expensive. We don’t have that situation here.

  • Tacohow

    The Wilpons are a disgrace but don’t downplay Aldersons contributions to their incompetence. We could have turned jose Reyes into top prospects but instead let him walk for nothing…and we still haven’t found a SS or lead off hitter to replace him.
    Alderson has signed garbage like Fransisco, Caresco and Markum to contracts to squander the little money they had.

    This is a collaborative effort: broke/cheap owners, an ineffective commissioner who let us suffer through unqualified management because they are buddies, and a smug GM who has now overseen 9 straight losing seasons.

  • ReedRothchild

    I could not possibly agree more.

    And while I have been anti-boycott thus far, if the team indeed has a payroll in the bottom third this year and we do not see some significant improvement on the field (i.e. .500+ which is very doubtful), and some in-season moves as well, then I think boycott time will have arrived late this summer.

  • Kabeetz

    Great points. Fingers crossed.

  • CyYout

    Reyes was hurt at the All-Star break so there was no market for him. I blame the organization for not making a qualifying offer after the season, but the majority of that is on the owners.

  • goorru

    Thank you for getting Disqus! Great job!

  • goorru

    No huge Jason Bay contracts were signed? Then you mention Curtis Granderson. They’re almost identical contracts.

  • Thanks, I appreciate it.

  • ReedRothchild

    Boy that’s dumb.

    The team could have acquired, say, Kazmir for
    his relatively reasonable deal and maybe taken a shot at Abreu as well, and also made other moves like re-signing Hawkins. Or signing Arroyo, who, while not great, certainly is good and incredibly reliable.

    Not saying that spending solves everything, as Minaya proved for all time, but your comment is precisely the opposite of the truth and rather ridiculous and naive.

  • Charley’s Twin

    are you nuts?

  • SRT

    Thanks!

    Happy and Healthy New Year to you and yours, Joe.

  • njsapper07092

    The overall value of the Mets franchise has significantly increased. In addition the bond market would refinance a ham sandwich right now. Though they have significant near term maturities, it’s not like they will have to put additional money in and roll over a lower amount.

  • Charley’s Twin

    Selig will never retire until he’s dead. We need JP Morgan to force a sale. Let us pray

  • goorru

    Qualifying offer?

  • rwdavis22461

    the bad thing will happen we trade Ike get a injury pron pitcher. Ike hits and fields fine and we have Lucas Duda failing his third position in two years . First RF then LF whats next 1b to he is DFA.

  • SRT

    I read on MLBTRs yesterday that there’s a small possibility Selig does not retire in Jan ’15 as planned.
    This would be the worst possible scenario, IMO.

  • Agee’s Catch

    We need Bugs Bunny.

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    yea we do …but we will prob get Charlie Brown

  • Charley’s Twin

    He has pulled this stunt many times in the past and I am fully expecting that horrible rumor to come true

  • ReedRothchild

    Mostly totally true; but they will have to come up with massive near term maturities, and they’ve already gone the new minority partner route, and isn’t it safe to say that their being frugal would aid in another refinance attempt?

    Otherwise, there’s no way they have a payroll this low.

  • mr1313

    Would you consider having mets tweets on the site somewhere?

  • Tacohow

    Sorry but no
    Reyes got hurt July 2nd so there is no explanation as to why we hadn’t traded him prior to this for at least 2 top prospects

    However, he still had huge trade value AFTER his injury. For goodness sake, we traded Marlon Byrd on August 28 for two of the pirates top 20 prospects. Reyes returned from injury on the same date and not only played all of September he hit .340 for the month with a .414 OBP (and scored 19 runs)

    Even Alderson could have turned that into a prospect.

  • BehindTheBag

    Great article. It’s nice to be on a blog that says it like it is.

    Here’s the truth. The Mets make a crapload of money. They have the 12th highest ticket/concessions prices, #21 attendance, and #23/24 payroll. So they’re making money if you do the math. They also have a lucrative SNY TV deal.

    The Wilpons are funneling those baseball profits into their loan payments. (i.e. their personal business venture). The same pyramid scheme the McCourts did in LA.

    It’s a disgrace that MLB hasn’t stepped in. I’m not going to any Mets games this year, or any year, until the ticket prices and payroll are on par.

  • BehindTheBag

    Yeah, it’s a shame that Sandy didn’t have crystal ball to know that Reyes was going to get hurt on 7/2, so he could have traded him a week earlier.

    They are called deadline deals because they happen AT THE DEADLINE.

  • Big Mets Fan

    Snoopy played a mean shortshop.

  • CyYout

    No need for insults. My point is there are reasons other than money that the Mets have not signed available free agents. I think Sandy wants a young, controllable shortstop (not an injury plagued 31 year old with limited upside) and I also think there are serious risks with Abreu since he hasn’t seen a major league pitch yet.

  • Bail4Nails

    Yes, you’re right. The difference between Granderson and Bay, I think, is that we bought low on Granderson. If you look at his numbers before last year (injured), he had 2 straight 40 HR season, and racked up 100+ runs and RBIs. Plus, we KNOW he can play in New York. With Bay, he had pretty decent career numbers, but we paid him the amount for his 1 special season, the year before with Boston. I don’t know, I think Granderson is much better than Bay.

  • Wow are you kidding me?? I have to scope this out… I cant stand the thought of another year with Selig. He’s as much to blame for our mess as the Wilpons are and Katz too who somehow avoids a lot of the incoming missiles.

  • CyYout

    Who are you going to go buy with a blank check right now that will bring a championship to Queens in the next few years? Who is available that the Mets are soooooo dumb for not pursuing? Tell me.

  • ReedRothchild

    They are funding revenue into their debts for sure; but they surely are not making money. They are broke and corrupt and dishonest for sure at this point, but it’s not like they are wallowing in profits and refusing to spend; that’s naive.

    They went out on a massive limb with the Citi bonds, and clearly were projecting the same 40,000 a night at Citi as were coming to Shea in 2006–2008, and projecting the ritzy clubs being filled every night, etc. The team tanking and the resulting shrinkage of revenues has them in a major hole.

    Again, I detest them and wish they would sell the team today, but the idea that fans have that the Wilpons are rolling in dough and choosing not to spend on payroll is naive to the extreme.

  • That’s actually a good idea mr1313. I will explore that possibility this weekend. LGM

  • BehindTheBag

    My litmus test heading into this offseason was Jose Abreu. First base was a black hole for the Mets last season. We had no legit internal options (Davis? Duda? Duda+Satin? HA!)

    Here you’ve got a slugger…in his prime…put up much better numbers than Cespedes…at our biggest position of need.

    If he wasn’t our top target, then the Mets offseason was doomed to be a bust.

    And guess what – he signed for 6 years at about the same price as Grandy’s 4 years. Which would you rather have? I’m going out on a limb and saying over the next 4 years, Abreu’s prime produces more WAR than Grandy’s mid 30’s decline…and then you basically get the last years of Abreu free.

    Rooting for the Mets means having to make choices…between “What outfield?” and “Who’s on first?”

  • ReedRothchild

    Perhaps, but your comment is still incredibly silly.

    Are you going to tell me that signing Kazmir and Drew would not very possibly improve this team over the next 2 years?

    Or Choo?

    Choo would have been absolutely ideal, does some of everything, and is not that old. And of course we were not in on him due to payroll constraints.

    And PS–Chapman and Puig have worked out thus far. Abreu might too.

  • kw_all

    Joe, i love your website, thanks for your efforts
    im more concerned with what the payroll will be a little more down the road. if you are focusing on building through the farm and being traders for younger players, well the payroll is going to be low. its how you raise it that makes all the difference, perhaps trading for an under control superstar out of surplus talent is a good way. and after this season there should be surplus talent in the pitching making it easier to deal for a young 1b/ss/of to improve the team.

    also, even if just 70% of the young guys pan out, there will be lots of raises for gee, harvey, murphy, lagares (i hope), harvey, parnell, flores (i really hope) ect ect. this is a good problem

    i have accepted that the mets are not going to compete in 2014, perhaps on the fringe of the 2nd wildcard but no more most likely.
    i would just like to see improvement, including better situational hitting, more reliable infield defense, better run production by the middle of the order and of course higher obp by the top of the order. combine that with the young pitching … its improvement. then realistically next winter we know where we stand in the outfield, rotation, bullpen and infield and can target areas of improvement with money and talent to trade.

  • CThomp519

    Sandy’s hands ARE tied. However I do believe that even with more flexibility, he’d still not sign another 100 million type player.

    That said, just the fact that they have to trade Ike in order to make anymore moves, is proof enough that the Wilpons are still broke.

    This team is a joke as far as payrolls go and we are damn lucky that Sandy was able to trade a few veterans for the top prospects he’s received because right now this team would be in the cellar without any hope of winning of he didn’t. That’s where I give him credit. If not for Wheeler, Thor, and DarNo, the mets situation would be bleak.

    The Wilpons are killing this team. If they just let it go the mets could once again act like the big market team they used to be.

  • BehindTheBag

    The Wilpons are broke. The Mets + SNY make a handsome operating profit. Huge difference.

    The Wilpons’ massive loans are their business. My point is that they suck the profits out of their baseball business to pay those loans. The purpose of the loans is to allow them to hold onto the Mets.

    It’s not the Citi bonds that did them in. It was that they had hundreds of millions in liquidity tied up in Madoff that vanished overnight. When that happened, they did not have the financial wherewithal to be baseball owners…but they didn’t let that stop them.

  • Charley’s Twin

    check the buster olney insider column from a few days ago for more on this. it’s tossed out there nice and easy, as if we won’t mind. HA!

  • Psinap1

    Payroll is really just a number. Remember that d’Arnaud, wheeler, gee, Parnell and to a degree Murphy, are all playing below market value. Give each of those guys $10m and you have a payroll well over 120 and the mets are still going to have Harvey next year who would be worth anywhere from 20-25. So to me they are spending a lot because those players keep the budget way down.

  • CyYout

    Well, first of all, I was talking about now — how the team is constructed after the Granderson, Colon, and Young signings. So my point was that there is really no one on the market right now that would be considered a significant upgrade, except for maybe Drew who, like I said, I believe will cost us the opportunity to trade for a stud shortstop. Going back to before those signings, I think the issue is the Mets didn’t want to put all their eggs in one basket. The same reason the Yankees didn’t sign Cano, and instead signed Ellsbury and Beltran. I personally don’t like Choo; I think he has limited power and range, and terrible splits against lefties.

  • ReedRothchild

    Whaaaaaaaat??

    LOL!

    d’Arnaud is playing below market value? Uh, no he’s not. He’s a kid with a month in the bigs. Wheeler has half a year.

    Give them each $10M? Do you have any idea how much production and how many years away from $10M annual salaries d’Arnaud and Wheeler are?

    “…they are spending a lot because those players keep the budget way down.”

    This is classic.

  • ReedRothchild

    Your 3rd paragraph sums it up ideally and perfectly and truly says it all. Madoff was the Mets’ financing for the Minaya years. No doubt on that.

    But I think it is misleading to separate the Mets’ debts from the operating profit–if they were sucking Met $$$ out to pay real estate debt unrelated to the Mets, that would be one thing, but while I totally agree that they are using every available cent to retain ownership, I still think that it is sort of misleading and–forgive me–maybe naive to think that they are at the same time broke AND making a handsome operating profit. Met revenues and their baseball business loans are part of the same situation.

    That would kind of be like saying that a department store that is nearing bankruptcy is making a handsome operating profit because the jewelry and perfume departments are doing well while the rest of the store is losing fortunes.

    The Mets–Citi Field, SNY, etc–are one entity really. A broke and severely indebted entity.

  • BehindTheBag

    Every team has players playing for below market, they’re called “young players”. Pujols will make 50 times more than Trout this year while Trout will put up 2X the WAR. That’s baseball. It’s not an excuse not to spend.

    If you’re making the point that the Mets need salary flexibility 2-3 years from now when they’re young players get raises, fine…offer Drew 1 year, $16M-$18M and he probably takes it.

  • Psinap1

    Of course I am projecting d’Arnaud as a legitimate bat. But not having to pay 2/3 of your starters the 30 million or so they would likely command is a big deal. They get huge production from gee, wheeler and next year Harvey without owing them that kind of money. Add in Parnell, what does a good-above average closer get these days?

  • ReedRothchild

    They signed Granderson and Colon because they were gettable for less money and fewer years.

    And Ellsbury’s deal is for MORE than Choo’s. What you say here makes zero sense.

  • Charley’s Twin

    ABREU. 6 years, 68 million. Who is our first baseman?

  • Matt Mosher

    I have enjoyed this off season. Much needed break from the garbage spewed by this organization. Personally, I’m in no hurry for March 30.

  • Matt Mosher

    Selig won’t retire. He’s too arrogant.

  • ReedRothchild

    I agree. Abreu was a perfect risk for this team.

    Power, fills a desperate need at 1B, and would be great for marketing in NYC.

  • Bail4Nails

    I Googled “Can fans buy their team from owners?” Apparently, we’re not the only fans who dislike the guys running the show. Below is a link about Liverpool, who tried to get 100,000 fans to chip in $10,000 each to buy back the team.
    If we could do this, I’d start saving right now.
    http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1709116,00.html

  • BehindTheBag

    I hear what you’re saying, I just consider the Mets revenues and the Mets payroll liabilities separate from the debt obligations incurred by the Wilpons for the sole purpose of retaining personal ownership of the Mets.

  • ReedRothchild

    Gotcha. That’s reasonable.

  • CyYout

    My POINT is that payroll is meaningless outside of preventing the team from acquiring a player they want, and is not an indication of success or failure on its own, as this article implies. The Mets have a smaller payroll than last year because they have unloaded a bunch of albatross contracts, not because they refuse to get free agents. And yes, they could have gotten premiere free agents this offseason, but they didn’t because of money reasons AND flexibility reasons. We all want long-term success for the Mets, for them to put together a perenially good team like the Cardinals, and you can’t do that if you have 3 stars over 35 years old making 25 milion each in 2017, which is what the Mets would have if they signed Ellsbury and Choo.

  • Charley’s Twin

    Dude. Our owners are broke. The team has to run its decisions by a bank. The bank decides whether to put the transaction through. No other team has to deal with that. Do you think that’s conducive to winning?

  • Makes no sense that Ike is holding up anything financially. They can release him in spring training for little owed.

  • Harvey33

    I would love this feature. I use this feature on MetsBlog more than anything on that site. It’s a good way to get any info fast for those of us who do not have twitter.

  • ReedRothchild

    Sorry, but you just do not understand finance and how these things work. Signing Kazmir and Drew would help the team; maybe hugely, and has less than nothing to do with stars making $25M in 2017.

    They cannot sign anyone else because they CANNOT AFFORD TO.

    Read Charley’s comments–they might help.

  • CyYout

    Obviously not, but that misses my point. I guess my pointing out that payroll BY ITSELF means nothing is confused with a defense of the Wilpons. I would love to see them sell the team. I just don’t think spending more money without a good, young core will get the Mets anything except the fan base off their backs.

  • KilleronFire

    I hate posts like this. What moves are the Mets passing on that you would make to improve this team? That’s what I think we should discuss. It has been proven time and time again with team after team that bad long term contracts kill your chances for success unless you’re the Yankees. Look at Texas with and without A-Rod. How much success have the Angles really had? The way to win is to acquire and keep developing young talent. Not sign overpriced players likely to be useless in a couple of seasons just to add a few extra wins. If there are players who could really help, and Sandy is passing. Let’s call him out. Who are they? Choo, Drew, foreign players with no major or minor league track records? I don’t think so.

  • Tacohow

    Love how you ignored the fact he could have been traded after he returned from injury (the same time Byrd went for two of the Pirates prospects). Don’t let facts get in the way.

  • BehindTheBag

    Choo – 7 years, $140M – $20M
    Abreu – 6 years, $72M (extra bump to get him from CWS) – $12M
    Drew – 2 years, $26M – $13M (extra bump so we don’t need to lock him down for 3 years)
    Tanaka – 7 years, $140M – $20M (including the posting fee, my estimate of what it would take to keep him away from the Yanks)
    Trade for Aoki – 1 year, $2.25M
    There you have it – $57M for 5 players that would have made a big difference.

    Aoki – RF
    Choo – LF
    Wright – 3B
    Abreu – 1B
    Murphy – 2B
    Drew – SS
    TdA – C
    Lagares – CF

    Rotation: Niese, Wheeler, Gee, Tanaka, Mejia

  • Charley’s Twin

    OK fair enough. I still disagree that payroll means nothing. Look at the last 4 teams playing last year and tell me where they ranked in payroll. I agree higher payroll does not *GUARANTEE* success, but it has become a prerequisite.

    All of this comes before we even talk about how badly we get gouged in terms of tickets, etc, which is where most people’s anger comes from.

    Lastly, we are not championship contenders this year with or without him, but wouldn’t you rather see Stephen Drew picking up ground balls than watch Tejada….not pick them up?

  • CyYout

    This is my last reply because you’ve brought over that Metsblog attitude of not being able to discuss anything without insulting. I do understand finance better than you think considering how I make my living. For example, there is something called an opportunity cost, which is what players like Kazmir and Drew cost. It means that when another player the Mets really want that is not mediocre, like a stud shortstop or the promotion of a top pitching prospect, they cannot acquire him because of the cost of the Kazmirs and Drews of the world. They cannot afford to sign players, yes, the Wilpons suck, but to view it only as a money, rather than planning issue, is seeing only a part of the picture.

  • ReedRothchild

    I hate comments like this.

    Kazmir for 2/20–24?
    Arroyo for 2 or 3 years at 10 or so each?
    Drew?
    Abreu?

    Some combo of those guys would certainly have helped and cost nothing remotely close to ARod or Choo.

    PSSSST–teams that spend more have a much, MUCH better chance of winning.

    Not saying they should re-live the Omar era of disaster, but teams like the Cards and Dodgers and Yanks and Red Sox and Tigers develop players AND spend on filling out the roster. That’s the way to win.

  • jason bay

    I don’t think the Wilpon’s would have traded Reyes even if he wasn’t hurt because they needed whatever revenue he might bring in but it is entirely untrue that We “got nothing” for Reyes. We got two picks for Retes when he left and it’s just the luck of the draw that the Marlins pick was protected and they signed a (somehow) higher ranked FA in Heath Bell. That situation is not a one way street. Houston only got our 3rd rounder (and a supp pick) for Beltran.

    Regardless all of this teams ills can be traced back to the Wilpon’s and no other GM would have been able to do much if anything different. What Alderson has done is concentrate on providing players for the future that collectively haven’t been up for very long or at all and make the best choices out of the few players he could afford to fill as many of the glaring weaknesses as possible while simultaneously having to work around Bay and Santana’s deals, slashing payroll and not getting much production from the farm overall.

    To his credit he refused to strip the farm to make us marginally better and while two moves in Pagan and Francisco were bad deals, Carrasco and Marcum were just bookmarks and Hairston, Torres, Izzy, Rice, Young, Capuano, Hefner, Rauch, Cedeno, Buck and Byrd collectively have done OK as 1-2 year hold the fort guys and given the constraints with which he was working under it is ridiculous to complain about him not getting them all right. No GM gets them all right even when the money is unlimited.

  • CyYout

    I would rather the Mets take their excess (hopefully) pitching and trade for a young, stud shortstop, and I am afraid that won’t happen if we have Drew.

  • ReedRothchild

    Well, the problem with your comments is that you are acting as though everything the Mets do right now is not totally dictated by finances.

    And that is just plain wrong and naive.

    Of course to an extent you are right, but that has no meaning as regards the current Met situation.

    They are hugely indebted and in trouble.

    There’s a big difference between having your ideas make sense for a team with an $85M payroll and a team with much more flexibility.

  • Martin

    Right. Let’s hear specific proposals on how money should have been spent.

  • I would love to see them pick up one more bat on a higher priced, but shorter termed contract. Sort of an offensive version of Bartolo Colon.
    If he puts them over the top – great. If not, trade him or eat the contract.
    If these young pitchers start panning out they can either trade them or stock the pitching staff with cheap young players and spend big on a few bats.

  • IndianaMet

    You forgot that Alderson said his biggest off-season goal was to get a shortstop. We see how that has worked out. We now have 5 OFers, 3 1Bmen, a DH and no SS.
    We missed the boat on Abreu and the team cant understand why no other franchise wants anything to do with Ike or Duda. Too many holes that remain unfilled, all while we add pieces that we could do without.
    I liked the Granderson and Colon signings, just because they aren’t what we already had. This franchise has to change the culture, and it needs to bring in winners. Our 6,7,8 and 9 hole hitters have the potential to wreck any and all rallies, just like last year, and it appears nothing will change. Frustrated!!!!

  • Thanks, found it there as you said. Here is the excerpt:

    Bud Selig says he will retire at the end of 2014, but some say he won’t.

    1. The identity of Bud Selig’s successor

    Selig has announced he will retire a year from now, so let the campaigning and the lobbying (and maybe some deal-making and backstabbing, in some quarters) begin in earnest.

    I’ve heard three different theories about who will follow Selig from high-ranking club executives.

    A) Some believe he won’t actually retire at the end of this season, and will instead by convinced by owners to stay on board.

    B) Rob Manfred, the chief operating officer of baseball, is destined to be Selig’s hand-picked successor. “There’s no way [Selig] is leaving that job without anointing the next guy,” said one official, “and that’s Rob.”

    C) The “heir to the throne” hasn’t actually emerged, because of a growing unhappiness among a core of mid-market and small-market teams hasn’t manifested itself yet. Whoever the next commissioner is will have to make his peace with that group, as Selig has been able to do.

  • jason bay

    July 2nd is about the time teams start talking about deadline deals. See where they are and what they need. Had Alderson traded Beltran on July 2nd he wouldn’t have had four teams bidding against each other as he did (Texas, Atl, Philly and SF) and consequently wouldn’t have gotten anywhere near as much.

    Reyes going down pretty much eliminated any interest in him as hamstrings are very fickle type injuries and when he came back he wasn’t hitting or running the bases well either. Deadline deals are all about right now and with the hamstring no GM could say for sure that Reyes was ready right now.

    Can you imagine the blowback if Sabean had traded Wheeler for Reyes and Jose hurt again and missed 3 more weeks?

    LOL he’s already getting killed daily in the SF press for trading Wheeler for Beltran.

  • WilponsStinkLessNow

    Amen! Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

  • Captain America

    Joe D – are your #s with anticipated raises through arbitration?

    And last year 91+ million would be right in the middle of mlb teams…

  • vigouge

    A terrible set of moves. Spending 140m on one pitcher, another 140m for a 31 year-old outfielder, 70m for a lottery ticket first baseman. Far too much risk for far too little value.

  • Charley’s Twin

    those moves are just fine. We need to get past playing accountant for our WONDERFUL owners and start demanding they put a team out there.

  • BehindTheBag

    First off, I was merely stating what moves would help set us on a course towards a championship. Do you really think that’s not a much improved lineup than what we have now?

    Second – we still wouldn’t have the highest payroll in the NL East next year even with these moves.

    Third – instead, we went shopping at the bargain bin and got Colon, Granderson, and CYoung. So that we could have the illusion of competing, while saving the Wilpons money.

  • Tacohow

    I see you are a knowledgable Mets fan but I cannot agree with much of your analysis. Alderson has failed in almost all levels except one: I will certainly credit him for turning Beltran and dickey into players to build around.

    However, other than this he had been atrocious. His drafts have been terrible: three drafts in and he had not drafted a single player who is either a top 100 baseball America prospect or close to the majors. Their farm system has actually been downgraded from 2012 to 2013. His high first round picks Nimmio and Cechinni? Underachieving and nowhere near the majors. The player picked after Nimmo? Jose Fernandez by the Marlins…finalist for Cy Young THIS year.

    As for his record of free agent signings…it is pretty abominable. Even his one success Byrd was not his choice: Collins pushed for it as a favor to Byrd’s agent.

    Basically Alderson came into a team which had at the major league level Wright, Reyes, Pagan, dickey, Beltran, Niese, Murphy
    At the minor league level: Harvey, Legares, Davis, Montero, Matz, Gee, Mejia, Familia

    It seems every young player we are building around EXCEPT the haul from those two trades were signed or drafted by Omar. What exactly else does three drafts by Dandy Sandy have to show?

  • Met Maniac

    Spending money is one problem, but not the only one. What about wasting money that you spend? Young $7.5m, Francisco $12m, etc. You seem to leave Sandy out of the equation.

  • BehindTheBag

    Oh man, this could take awhile. Does anyone know the average life expectancy for a vampire? It’s like 600 years, isn’t it. Dammit!

  • Hotstreak

    Actually in today’s market Grandy was a bargain Wright finally has protection. But Grandy is a little older when becoming a Met (younger overall) . But Grandy should be productive much longer. Yes Curtis has a better resume overall when obtained: We overpaid for Bay and Grandy is a bargain, good point.

  • Charley’s Twin

    If only Selig saw it your way—we’d be rid of them by now

  • Hotstreak

    Reyes should have been traded after SA took over in a complete rebuilding effort due to Picard lawsuit. We would be contenders now for many years. If the ownership said you can’t rebuild in NY then Reyes should have been OFFERED A CONTRACT IN ST. Remember Reyes proved he was healthy from 2010 issues and said he preferred not to negotiate during the season.

  • ReedRothchild

    Outstanding, phenomenal point which so many forget.

    Alderson has done a terrible, awful job with the money he has had to spend.

    And I think the Granderson signing has the potential to be a huge disaster—he was already in decline in 2012, and when he did play last year he was awful, AND he is coming to a new league and a horrible hitter’s park.

    And I think Colon over Kazmir (assuming Kazmir would have come here) was a potentially awful move too. Colon was good, but he also got six R or more in all but two of his wins. He won’t be getting that in 2014.

    All anyone can point to regarding Alderson positively is the potential of kids. Maybe they largely pan out and the team is very good in 2–3 years, but that’s a massive if, relying on a lot of kids who have mostly proven nothing yet.

    The Wilpons are the central cause of the problems, but Alderson has been a very, very mediocre GM thus far.

  • goorru

    With Disqus you can sort the comments by newest, oldest and best.

  • Daniel

    The qualifying offer didn’t even exist back then, and we got two picks for Reyes(Plawecki and Reynolds)

  • Daniel

    Stephen Drew

  • Hotstreak

    TdA could be a bust. It’s Wheeler and Thor as they both appear super acquisitions. SA screwed up getting way less than market for Reyes BUT getting Wheeler for Beltran w/o draft picks is SA’s high point during SA’s tenure as Met’s GM. Yes you did point that out in your post. You should have mentioned Dominic Smith who is the lone draft pick most knowledgeable baseball people liked First two No. 1 picks they scratched their heads and it appears those reviews are accurate.

    Albatross contracts are off the books and the clock is running. If as Joe D wrote the Wilpons are holding back payroll ( I totally agree) then SA is a puppet who should resign. Since he did not SA is also responsible for the charade of this team.

  • Anthony Schifano

    Amen, brother!

  • RS

    I wouldn’t limit the conversation to payroll constraints. Objectively, the Mets signings are better “value” signings. Choos maybe better than granderson, but $ for $ grandy was the better deal. Finding vlaue in the market allows for flexibility in the future – see above “Moneyball with money.” Perhaps now is the start of the “with money” part? We’ll see if the Mets make any splashes.

  • RS

    I don’t think the Kazmir deal was a very good one. Colon 2/20 is much preferrable in my opinion. Not to defend wilponys, but that’s not being cheap, that’s being savy.
    FYI no one signed drew yet, the mets still can. You can’t critisize them for a non move that is still possible.

  • SRT

    Yes, this is where I read it.

    If Selig had just stayed out of the affairs of all things Mets, the Wilpons may have been forced to sell.

    I’m with you, it’s way past time for a change. Selig needs to go.

  • RS

    “everything the Mets do right now is not totally dictated by finances.”
    That makes no sense. If everything was financially dictated, we could have passed on $30 mil in new contracts, and had DUDA playing left field again.
    SA was brought in to run the team with financial awareness. I think it’s a misnomer to call it a financial dictatorship…

  • Hotstreak

    Not enough. Qualifying offer is irrelevant. He should have been signed or traded once he established his health issues of 2010 were behind him. He could have gotten an extension then. If a business decision can’t afford him and legs will be issues down the road then trade him for at least three major league ready top 50 prospects.

  • Erin_II

    If you follow Rubin, you can pretty much get any Mets related information seconds before it`s actually announced or decided, in many cases.

  • Biggle Boy

    C-Tom, I don’t know if the Wilpons are broke, but it certainly seems their baseball finances are shaky. As fans, we’re fortunate to have Grandy and Colon. Because no matter how excited we are about kids like Thor, Travis, Montero, success at the ML level is far from certain until you do it for a year or 2. IMO the only thing that can force Fred to sell would be the banks, after another 74 win season.

  • RS

    You are using the high standard SA set reagrding rental players against him!
    SA got Wheeler for a Beltran rental – hooray!
    SA didn’t turn a gimpy SS into gold like he did with Beltran – he’s a moron!
    A few things, Reyes was hurting/ had a history of hammy injuries. He’s a legs player with little power. His percieved impact was much lower than that of power-hitting Beltran.
    Sandy probably couldn’t have gotten much mroe than what he aquired with the supplemental picks.
    If I buy you a box of chocolates, will you get over it? 😉

  • RS

    Let’s give SA’s recent signings a few months of play before we start calling them busts?
    Frank Frank was a clear falilure – Young, grandy, colon, remains to be seen.

    I’d rather have Colon than Kazmir (even discounting the better contract for colon)

  • Hotstreak

    Yes but one “ah $hit wipes” out a thousand that “ah boys” It was the same thing with Omar. That’s the way it is especially in NY. Save your box of chocolates for Valentines Day”. 🙂

  • RS

    Haha! Fair enough, I jsut don’t think its fair to expect a great return on a rental. More of it’s ncie if you can get it. I need the season to start!

  • jason bay

    Tacohow,

    The only guy from the minors you mention whose done anything during Alderson’s three years is Gee who has had good stretches, bad stretches and been injured half the year (2012) and Alderson signed Montero.

    His drafts remain to be seen and are a different topic from the quality of FA’s Alderson has been able to target and don’t forget that FA’s have a choice of where they sign too. If you want to bring up Fernandez the bring up Pelfrey-McCutchen, Kunz-Stanton, Vineyard-Freeman, Matz-Myers or even KRod-Trout or you could bring up the 2008-2009 IFA classes where other teams got some players like Bogaerts, Iglesias, Profar, Polanco, Tavares, Sardinas, Tavares, Eduardo Rodriguez ect, ect while we got Tapia, Tovar, Aderlain Rodriguez and Juan Urbina.

    Give the draft some time before you go labeling 20 and 21 year old kids busts

  • Joey D.

    Hi KilleronFire,

    Here are nine from the past two years that are not the Aroid, Ellsbury, Choo or Cano type contracts which could have resolved our remaining holes and made us a legit contender and not just a .500 club.

    Only two would have cost close to Granderson per year, Only one would have meant a four year commitment. What we would have lost in a high round draft pick (as already explained by Joe D. and the Mets assistant GM) would be worth the trade off, especially in light of how so many lower round picks turn out to be so productive as well.

    All these were still in their prime either coming off good seasons or an off-year rather than being in decline like CYJ. Along with Granderson, Colon (PEDs and all), the players we have now – including our pitching – Lagares’ glove in center offsetting his weak bat, d’Arnaud hopefully coming around and still taking into account our one weak spot at shortstop, they certainly could have been the missing pieces that brought us back to be serious contenders while waiting for the farm system to produce their replacements in a few years or we obtain them through outside sources instead.

    2012 – Outfielders:
    Victorino – 3 years $39 million ($13 million per year)
    Scheirholtz – 1 year $2.225 million
    Swisher – 4 years $56 million ($14 million per year)

    2013 – Outfielders:
    Byrd – 2 years $16 million ($8 million per year) if PED OK for Colon…
    Daniel Murphy – $12 million ($6 million per year)

    2013 – First Basemen to now resolve Davis problem:
    Garret Jones- 2 years $7.75 million ($3.875 million per year) can also play outfield BTW
    Looney – 3 years $21 million ($7 million per year)
    Morales – still unsigned who has played first base.
    Morneau – 2 years $12.5 million ($6.25 million per year)

    Again, no guarantee this mix of players would have done the trick but there is no valid argument that can be said against it when taking into account all the pieces.

    Is this enough to call Sandy out on not stepping up past the first phase of his “rebuilding” stage ? LOL

  • Daniel

    I agree, I was just pointing that out

  • Pike Miazza

    Im with you on the 1B issue….that should have been priority #1, then a SS, but NOT Drew.
    We didn’t need ANY outfielders, not Grandy and CERTAINLY not CY.
    We could have ran with EY, denDecker & Lagares in the OF if we would have found a bat for 1b & SS.(We would have had the fastest defensive OF in MLB)
    Sign Abreu or Napoli & make whatever deal you can for a SS with some of our pitching depth.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Task,

    It’s as I’ve been saying, if the moves made in the past were based on a “rebuilding” vision independent of the financial situation which justifies the direction and moves taken by this front office regardless of the circumstances, then why now not the further steps as we are definitely beyond the initial development stage that is professed.

    The moves were not based on any true vision of rebuilding as they were the economic survival of the Wilpons as owners. Riciardi explained it properly how teams are built and for being in the biggest market in the country, the Mets were certainly in the position to upgrade itself during the time period it was necessary for the farm system was being replenished. Madoff made that impossible and nothing else. As one so aptly put it in another forum, we’re fans of the Mets, not fans of the Mets accountants.

  • Tacohow

    Jasonbay,

    I heard Montero was scouted by Omar and signed soon after Alderson took over, but he was Omar’s guy. However this was just something I read and I am unsure the accuracy.

    The mets plan according to Alderson was build around these young arms. The arms in the organization that are ranked high are 2 guys he traded for (which I acknowledged were good moves) and guys already in the system when he got there. Saying Harvey hadn’t done anything is not genuine. He dominated at the major league level and started the all star game. It is not uncommon for a young pitcher to have the kind of setback he did and come back: look at Strasberg.

    I have not giving up on the young players drafted. However, players from the 2011 draft are appearing all over the majors. It would be nice to see players Alderson drafted ripping it up in the minors and being ranked highly. It is just not happening. I heard Dominic Young may turn into a stud prospect: I hope so. But not having a single player in baseballs top 100 prospects after 3 drafts is pretty indefensible. There are only 30 teams; even a bad system should have produced 2-3 rated players. Our drafts have produced zero.

    Final question of Alderson: why did we sign Chris young, who had a lower average than Davis, to a 7.25 million contract? And would they bench or demote Legares, a possible building block, so that we’d have to watch Eric young and Chris young play? I sure hope not.

  • Joey D.

    “Give the draft some time before you go labeling 20 and 21 year old kids busts”

    Jason, you are absolutely correct in saying that but at the same time that has to apply to labeling general managers and their baseball people based on 20/20 hindsight and inferring they had a crystal ball to tell them which raw talent was going on to stardom and which would be a bust which then enabled them to pilot the direction of their team in the right direction.

    Half of all first and second round draft picks fail to make a mark in the big leagues. Almost 90 percent of all minor leaguers never play an inning of major league ball. Riciardi made sense with his take on how clubs should be built on a combination of moves in which the farm system is an addition to the process. That is indeed how most all clubs floundering below .500 have done it.

    As far as building mostly from within, St. Louis and Atlanta are the exceptions to the rule regarding continual turnout of great prospects year after year after year and the other 28 general managers would love to know what their secret is.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Tacohow,

    That is indeed a valid point. If we got two highly regarded prospects for Byrd with literally just one month to go in the season, it is reasonable to expect Reyes would have brought us some sort of high prospect in return even with the hamstring problem at that late venture.

    But then, there was little left to save as far as cost cutting so it would not have been worth the additional flack it would have caused at that time – for we’ve seen how much negativity it did cause nevertheless in conjunction with everything else associated with this organization. And, as we know, all the moves made were associated in cost cutting – remember what Sandy said his goal was – reducing the payroll (which is different than getting rid of “albatross” contracts and then reinvesting the saved money more wisely). This is how he achieved it. And that is why he didn’t trade Jose later on – it would have been disasterous from a marketing perspective with Jose going after the batting title. After all, this was not Oakland where nobody really cared that McGuire was sent packing when first chasing Maris’ record – of course, with the help of his steroid induced body.

  • Nolrog

    >>> And I think the Granderson signing has the potential to be a huge disaster

    That scares the heck out of me as well. Grandy was a much different hitter before he came to the Yanks and fell in love with that short RF porch. Something he will not see in Citifield, but if he tries to pull everything that way, it could be ugly.

  • Nolrog

    20-25 for Harvey is a huge stretch. He needs to put up some awards before he gets to that number.

  • Bail4Nails

    About Granderson’s “decline” in 2012. He had 43HRs, 102 runs, and 106 RBIs. His strikeouts were atrocious, and his avg. was not good. But, this could be the one guy that Sandy’s religious approach to OBP, could actually help. Murphy is working on that now. If it works for him, maybe the clubhouse will follow.

  • Bail4Nails

    In this market? Tanaka is projected to get $17-20 million per, and he hasn’t thrown a major league pitch yet.

  • Nolrog

    >>> What moves are the Mets passing on that you would make to improve this team? Jose Abreu and Masahiro Tanaka to name a couple.

  • Nolrog

    True, but he’s coming from the Japanese league where he’s pitched for the last 7 years and is coming off a year where he went 24-0 1.27 ERA and 0.943 WHIP.

  • Run Support Group

    Did to just say we should’ve used Den dekker, Lagares and Young??!! They would’ve hit a combined .240 with 8 HRS

  • Nolrog

    He’s already announced his retirement. After this coming season. I don’t see why he’d announce it and then not go thru with it, as opposed to not saying anything.

  • Run Support Group

    Obviously it got downgraded. Wheeler and d’Arnaud are no longer in it

  • Run Support Group

    Byrd, Torres , EY for McHugh, Isringhausem taught Parnell the knuckle curve. Capuano wasn’t horrible. He’s also had about a 3 buck budget to work with. He also turned a month of Byrd and buck into Herrera and black. LaTroy Hawkins was a good pickup. Scott Rice was a great pickup.

  • Taskmaster4450

    To start, it cannot be discounted that the Mets still have financial issues. The Wilpons have that note hanging over their head in the Spring which needs to be taken care of. Whether anyone likes it or not, this is the Wilpons main priority. The fans might believe they should sell the team but I venture to say Fred and Jeff have a different opinion.

    As for the other point in the article, at this moment in time, the question is: spend money on whom? I have read the Joe isnt not a fan of signing Drew; a sentiment I agree with. So where do you allocate the extra $19M from Bay and Santana if you were going to spend it? Since Parnell was deemed ready for ST, spending money on a closer isnt going to happen. Like the players or not, they already invested in two OFs and a SP to fill out those positions. So what is left? A backup SS/2B? Another BP arm or two? If you arent going to sign Drew or Morales, who is going to cost money? Maybe another SP but that would be foolish with Montero, Mejia, and Snydergaard either there or waiting in the wings.

    The bottom line is the Mets need to be as streamlined as possible on paper when presenting to the banks. With the additional monies, based up the reported loss for 2013, the Mets can go to JPM and actually show a profit. So, to the Wilpons, the difference between an $90M and $100M-$120M payroll is enormous.

    This is what I see happening. Jeff is foaming at the mouth to spend. When they get past the refinancing deal on the bonds, the team should be in a better liquidity position. You might see some moves made at the trading deadline depending upon the team needs. Also, expect to see a $20M jump next off season. After that, yearly increases will be organic as the younger guys start hitting the arbitration arena (Harvey in 2016).

  • longsufferingmetsfan50

    And STILL they have the gall to charge these ticket prices. I know money doesn’t buy championships. That is understood. But it helps, and mainly I think they could at least lower these ridiculous prices.

  • Tacohow

    And he had three full drafts to replace them and he has produced how many top prospects from those drafts? I’m pretty sure the number is…zero

  • Charley’s Twin

    he has announced his retirement and then failed to follow through at least twice before

  • Run Support Group

    His drafting has been poor, but Cecchini and Nimmo were both high schoolers. This is a big year for them. Plawecki was a good draft pick.

  • Super T

    Bravo, Bravo this article nails the bulls-eye. I’m not advocating for the team to go on a unlimited spending spree either, but if the difference between being a winner or not this season is a Stephen Drew or a 1B the team fails to add – It’s definitely a BIG disappointment and another wasted year of David Wright’s prime.

  • Tacohow

    I hope you are right. I heard Plawecki didn’t have the glove to catch or the bat for first base.
    I think the success of 2014 is on Legares and D’arnaud becoming productive offensive players to support wright, Granderson and Murphy.

  • Run Support Group

    If Lagares improves and d’Arnaud produces (I think both can) the lineup is so much better. I also think signing Drew at 2 for 22 million is plausible and improves the team. Also, bringing in a veteran BP guy like Kevin Gregg to replace Hawkins would be nice. In regards to Plawecki, a guy who can hit relatively well (for a catcher) and has a poor glove still has value as not many teams have good offensive catchers these days.

  • Run Support Group

    At the time, the Marcum signing made sense. He was a very effective SP before he came to us. It just didn’t work out. Now the Fat Frank signing was bad. However, Carrasco and Marcum made sense at the time, they just didn’t produce.

  • Bo Beck

    How did you feel about the Byrd signing last year. There’s no way anyone knew the production he would give before he started. So how about the criticism for Young wait until the end of the year.

    Here are a few things we know about Young. He does strike out a lot, doesn’t hit for high average, easily the teams 2nd best outfielder defensively, has proven with 600 AB’s he’s a 22-25 HR guy, is second only to E. Young Jr in SB’s, and lastly with 600 AB’s is a 70-80 RBI
    guy. In today’s market those numbers get him 2 years 10 million contract.

    So if given the 600 AB’s and he gives the team a line of 230/325/400 23 HR’s/ 75 RBI/30 SB’s the 7.5 million is under paying him. So I reserve any criticism of Young or his contract until after the season. And by all means all of those numbers are attainable just by looking at his career stats.

  • Bo Beck

    The problem here is any outfield signing has the chance to be a disaster Choo, Cruz, Elsbury name an outfielder and I can give you 2reasons for each. The advantage to Grandy coming to Citi is he will not be a one demensional hitter.

    Grandy and all Yankee lefthanders were taught to pull the ball and use that ban box to their advantage. Grandy’s HR total will go down but he’ll hit for more doubles and triples. Using all of Citi to his advantage.

  • Bo Beck

    I wanted both but let’s be honest neither of them ever played a game in major league baseball. There’s no way anyone could know the production either will put up. And to sign a guy like Tanaka is hard because the team has been bragging about it’s pitching prospects.

    With Abreu his defense could cancel out a lot of what he does with his bat which is why the A.L was heaven to him. Morales is still out there and so is Cruz. I will get bashed for this but I don’t care.
    Sign Cruz, trade Lagares and Montero for Owings and Pollack trade Davis for a bat then sign Morales. If gives you a much better team then you have now.

    Morales is 25-30 HR’s and 80-90 RBI something you could only pray for with these first baseman. Owings easily better than Tejada. Pollack adds speed plus a bat and some pop as your 4th outfielder, and Cruz is another 25-30 HR guy and 80-90 RBI’s.

  • Run Support Group

    I’m glad they chose Grandy over Cruz. Cruz has Jason Bay part deux if we signed him, minus the defense.

  • donobrien

    As Joe D pointed out last September, annual attendance has gone from 4 million to 2 million over 5 years. It will continue to decline if this is a bad year. You have to spend money to make money and the Mets have the 30 million TV windfall plus the 50 million off Bays and Santanas contract. That 80 million that isn’t being spent.

  • Destry

    So you realize Cruz & Morales are both DHs at this point in their careers, right? If you arent going to factor in defense, why not just put Nellie Cruz at SS & Morales in CF? Then we would have a really good lineup. If we sign either of those DHs, our team ERA would rise a full run/game while our runs/game would rise less than 1/2
    a run/game. Signing either guy instantly makes our team worse + we lose a draft pick.

  • Bo Beck

    Ok now please explain How adding offense you don’t have hurts the team. You lose a draft pick add a SS you desperately need. Morales’s defense was on par if not better then Davis or Duda’s. And Cruz a DH no not yet willing to bet you whoever he signs with he’s in the outfield.

    So let’s see Morales, Cruz, and Owings and Pollack make you worse. You need to stay away from those funny brown cigs my friend.

  • Jack

    It really is a shame that Wilpon is friends with Selig because I think if they weren’t friends these owners would be gone a long time ago. I understand that the mets r their team and they can do whatever they want but if they genuinely did care about the team and the fan base they would sell the team and leave in good terms. I love the mets and support them but just not the owners and just pray that maybe, just maybe, the new commissioner will force these selfish people out of New York. I wonder if the Wilpons and Katz owned the Yankees if they would have been forced to sell by now?

  • Jack

    The future looks bright for the Mets but it’ll look better if we had better owners. I still don’t understand why they don’t sell now because the longer they hold onto the team the value of the team will draft. The words of Wilpon saying they will On my way! the Mets for a very long time brings shivers down my spine. I can’t believe that was the legacy they created for themselves. Nothing scares me more than having spoiled and inept Jeff Wilpon own this team. Why isn’t baseball doing anything like they did to the McCourts and what did we Met fans do to deserve this?

  • Jack

    When Wilpon said that the team didn’t put in a offer for Jose Abreu because he was a 1B and the mets already have a plethora of 1B that was just a cover up to not spend money on a probably far superior player than any 1B we have. Davis is the best option we have but if he can get a potential power player like Abreu would completely clear away the drama at 1B. They said that if Abreu was a Corner outfielder they would bid for him, I consider that B.S, even if they did do it it probably wouldn’t have been enough to get him.

  • Jack

    Pray to God the new Commissioner will force these corrupt people out of New York. If Selig chose to hate the Wilpons (like he chose with ARod) they would have been gone a long time ago. If he just told them to sell all these issues would have been gone in 2011 but the problems just linger on from this cancer of this ownership.

  • DrDooby

    Hi Joe,

    the question is whether your accounting of current 2014 payroll is similar to the way the Mets account for it. According to Cot´s contracts, the Mets had a 93.5 million opening day payroll in 2013:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Ah4PW47PiAi-dHdrS3c5Mmw0eUJPRkZ6RXItQi16bnc&output=html
    Probably a little less eventually with the trade of John Buck and saving 1.2 million there, plus cutting Cowgill. Of course that method counted the entire Jason Bay 2013 salary (18 million) against the 2013 books while counting the Santana & Bay buyouts (8.5 million combined) against the 2014 books.
    Now, the Mets last winter stated they´d count them against 2013 – which´d make it about 100 million overall give or take.
    However, Alderson gave an “88 to 89” million $ figure when talking about the 2013 payroll early this off-season he felt likely to top. Which means that either the buyouts OR part of the restructured Jason Bay contract are counted against 2014 (and possibly against 2015). It´s crazy indeed but going with this method, the Mets would already be at about 90 million $ for 2014. And continueing the lawyer-like explanation the 11 extra million that Wright & Niese will receive + the 30 million Granderson, Colon and C Young will get in 2014 mean that the Santana & Bay money has been spent fully (again, not counting all of their 2013 salaries + buyouts against 2013).
    Which means, assuming the loose budget for 2014 is the 90 to 95 million range, about 5 million are left to spend – plus the 3+ million to be saved on Ike Davis eventually.
    I´m assuming the extra TV money (27 million) will be used to cover against operating losses (supposedly 10 million in 2013) and will in parts be to pay back JP Morgan loans.
    Spending for the sake of spending is never a good idea. And you want to be able to gradually raise payroll levels in line with an extended winning cycle of your team. That said, in current market conditions, a team like the Mets should easily be able to operate in a loose range of 110 million (starting point) to 170 million (ceiling) – even with SNY making big profits due to a friendly TV deal. So, the current restrictions remain a major concern and indicate that the financial situation is far from being under control…

  • DrDooby

    Very much agreed. It´ll help a lot for both tax reasons & negotiations with JP Morgan to be profitable in 2014 as an isolated entity. Once the major loan due in June 2014 is restructured, the team should be more flexible again.
    As for further spending, SS remains the one big gapping hole. Stephen Drew may not be perfect and you certainly wouldn´t want to give him a longer term deal. But at 2-years, 22 million for example, he´d be a very nice upgrade over Tejada without being much of a risk salary wise. And getting Drew for modest (in today´s market) money and losing your 3rd round pick seems smarter than losing the 2015 1st rounder to sign, say, JJ Hardy or to trade a couple of top prospects, say, Montero & Plawecki, for a quality SS.

  • Tlagee

    All good points, Joe. One can’t help but think there are more financial burdens going on behind the scenes that we may never know about. Joey D. can comment on that.

    I know I shouldn’t but every time I see a picture of Jeff I keep thinking “idiot son” . But, of course, what do you expect from a kid who’s father broke a ny franchise because of stupidity and greed.

  • Destry

    Morales hasn’t played 1B regularly since 2009. Wonder why? He also doesn’t hit RHP very well, and his numbers would rank in the lower 1/2 of all 1B last season, but would surely decline if he had to play 1B every game, being that he body is not conditioned for that, and he sucks in the field. Any WAR site you wanna visit will show you that Lucas Duda provided more offensive value last season that Morales did in 250 fewer ABs. No Thanks. Morales is also tied to draft pick compensation, and wats 4yr/$50mil. Ha.

    Cruz is a terrible OF, and if he by chance plays mostly OF, he will need to play at least 1-2 games a week at DH. That is something we cannot provide being in the NL. So IF we make the mistake of signing Cruz, losing a draft pick, and playing him in RF, his numbers would decline horribly, unless he played 100 games, getting 2 days a week off, and would need to be substituted for in every game defensively. So yes, he would make our team worse, and he also wants 5yr/$75 mil. We could sign 2 players at $7mil each that would each add more value to the team.

    Most scouts think that Owings will most assuredly need to be a 2B at the major league level and some think he needs to move to 3B as soon as next season. He has planter fasciitis in both feet. So if you expect his inflated PCL numbers to translate to Citi Field, which I don’t, Wilmer Flores didn’t, We would need to move Murphy or Wright for him to not be well below average defensively, which would severely decrease any value that his offense adds.

    Oh yeah, and we would lose a Top 100 SP prospect, and downgrade from Lagares to Pollack to boot. Pollack can’t hit in Arizona, What will his numbers look like when he doesn’t have the distinct advantage of hitting in the hitter friendly warm dessert air?

    If we are playing MLB2K or Fantasy Baseball, then sure, we’d better, but you actually have to play 9 innings of defense in real life baseball, and you only bat 4 times a game.

  • texasmetsfan

    Boy, there is an article you would never read on Metsblog……:)

  • Pablo

    Not only wasting David Wrights talent, but that of our young pitchers who have to destroy their young arms trying to keep the team in the game, when you can’t score enough runs.

  • Ehrlitan

    People think they’re getting out of this mess, they’re not they’re just getting deeper into it.