5
2013
The Feeling Is That Almost No Chance Johan Avoids The DL
An article by 
Things just keep getting worse and not better on the Johan Santana front.
Andy Martino spoke to more than one team source and the consensus seems to be that Johan Santana will not be ready by Opening Day which totally wipes out Santana’s assertion that “he knows what he’s doing” and everything is okay. “I know the deal, spring training is for training okay!”.
The Mets’ private expectations for Johan Santana’s April 1 availability are even grimmer than their public line of “we’ll see.” Really, there is almost no chance that Santana avoids the disabled list at the beginning of the season, leaving the Mets in need of at least one additional starting pitcher — especially with Shaun Marcum still waiting to make his second Grapefruit League start.
Despite that, team insiders say it is almost certain that Jeremy Hefner, and not one of the options available outside the organization, will begin the year in the rotation. Other internal choices include Collin McHugh and Jenrry Mejia, but Hefner seems to have the edge.
Will Johan Santana be ready to take the ball on Opening Day?
It certainly doesn’t look that way from my perspective, and Joe D. may be right after all about Hefner who he has said on a few occasions to me, “I bet Heff’s the team’s number five.”
It’s looking like that right now.
More from PSL around 1 PM….
Originally Posted on 3/4 at 11:00 PM
What we have here is a failure to communicate. Or worse, a desire not to communicate.
Apparently, unbeknownst to manager Terry Collins, his veteran left-hander Johan Santana threw off the mound Sunday when the Mets earlier indicated it could be at least ten days before he would do so.ESPN reported this dialogue:
Collins: “What did you get on the mound for?”
Santana: “Because I felt good.”
Collins: “The last thing I need is to have you wake up tomorrow stiff and then we take a huge step backward because you wanted to show everybody you’re OK. I understand what you’re doing, but once in a while you’ve just got to let stuff slide away. You’ve just got to let it roll off your back and move on and get yourself ready.”
From that exchange, Collins was in the dark when Santana took the mound. And, Santana apparently didn’t care enough to follow the rest plan or to tell his manager.
This was amazingly ridiculous on the part of both.
First, as manager, how in the hell did Collins not know? It is a manager’s job to know everything that is going on with his team on all fronts. Everything. Do you think Joe Torre wouldn’t know? Do you think Tony La Russa wouldn’t know?
Secondly, Santana was incredibly selfish and stupid for risking his health just to prove criticism wrong. Pride is one thing, but pride for the sake of proving a meaningless point is simply reckless. If it would do any good, he should be fined. But, there’s nothing the Mets could do on that front that would affect Santana.
Thirdly, where was pitching coach Dan Warthen during all of this? A pitching coach should know at all times the work schedules for his pitchers. Rick Peterson and former pitching coach Guy Conti had it down to how many pitches they threw in the bullpen.
What about bullpen coach Ricky Bones? Ooops, I almost forgot, he was packing for the World Baseball Classic.
The Mets have not yet ruled out Opening Day, which is absurd because Santana would be rushed through no more than four starts when he would normally get six. This is begging for trouble. I can almost hear it now.
Collins is a lame duck manager who didn’t win any points by being unaware of something so important to the Mets. As for Santana, I don’t want to hear anymore about what a pro he is or about being a competitor. A real pro wouldn’t risk his health.
Of course, the perception eventually comes down to is Santana will make $31 million this year, including a buyout, so why should he care?
There’s a reason why the Mets are called amazing, and often it is because of stuff like this.
About the Author: John Delcos
I am an active member of the BBWAA and have covered Major League Baseball in several capacities for over 20 years, including ten in New York working the Mets' and Yankees' beat. I covered the Baltimore Orioles for eight years and the Cleveland Indians before that. I currently serve as an editor and senior staff writer for Mets Merized Online. Follow me on Twitter @jdelcos.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 30 | .583 | - |
| Phillies | 35 | 37 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Nationals | 34 | 36 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Mets | 27 | 40 | .403 | 12.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 48 | .314 | 19.0 |
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John, Collins was on the road with the team at the time Santana took the mound. Now Warthen was there and according to him Santana was supposed to throw off the mound after long tossing I believe 180 feet. Which by all accounts he did. I do think though that no one expected him to do so as soon as he did after long tossing but cut Collins some slack here the man if the accounts are true had no way to know what happened till after it did.
This.
From what I read, Johan threw no more than 18 pitches off that mound – just 2 days earlier than scheduled.
If 18 pitches off a mount a couple of days early is going to jeopardize Santana’s arm health this season, there’s bigger problems than who said what and who knew what.
And if he was scheduled to pitch two days later what was the point of saying anything at all?
As THIS is what happens when the GM makes statements about players he shouldn’t really make and makes them instead of the Manager who should know more about what condition his Star Pitcher is than the GM does…
GMs job is to get players to play….
Manager’s job is to play them, decide when and deal with issues of health and preparedness.
I am almost willing to bet we haven’t heard the last of this subject…
In the end what we will probably find is Santana said he was sore after a workout, they rushed him to the doctor because they got worried it was the shoulder….
Doctor said rest for 10 days while we look at pictures,
FO Jumped to announce Santana was being held back (prob because of Media pressure and questions asked)
Doctors found nothing wrong with the film and said it was just soreness due to lack of conditioning…
Sandy runs to press to tell them Santana is a Slacker…
Santana responds with a big FU I’m pitching today….Ready or not!
And now he will overpitch to prove them wrong and get hurt in April!
Your formula for job descriptions isn’t working, is it? Remember he who has the gold rules.
Not True in cases like this….
The Hospital Administrator doesn’t talk about cases in his hospital…The Doctor in charge of the case does…..
For all intents and purposes the Manager is running ST not the GM….
The only thing the GM should be doing is evaluating the play he sees on the field to see if he needs to replace them.
We went from 10 days away from pitching on Saturday from Alderson.
A pissed off Santana pitching on Sunday.
A still pissed off Santana pitching again on Monday.
A manager who had no idea.
A smart ass answer from Santana when he’s confronted by Collins.
Wow.
throwing off the mound to a catcher set up in front of the plate is not really what I would consider “pitching”. Sounds more like slightly glorified long tossing?
so 10 days until being up there throwing for real (to, say, hitters or in a game) is still entirely possible.
this again sounds like much ado about a manufactured non-controversy.
You call this a non controversy? This a major controversy. It’s been on SNY practically all day. There’s a major problem between the Mets ace, the GM, and Collins. If you think this is normal that’s your prerogative. If you think this is normal, that’s your prerogative too. This is the start of some bad clubhouse drama to me and it will soon trickle down to the other players. Collins and Alderson have lost control.
It was made into one by the GM making a statement wasn’t it?
ALl Sandy should have said he was sore and we decided to hold him back but the doctrs reported today no damage so it’s just normal soreness due to lack of throwing….
Lets the fans come to thier own conclusion if Santana tanked the offseason or not….
Then it’s not an issue and Santana doesn’t feel he needs to show someone up.
He either pitches or he doesn’t.
“This a major controversy. It’s been on SNY practically all day. ”
Well, they have to discuss something between infomercials and high school lacrosse highlights.
Exactly!
pretty much my point about being blown way out of proportion.
Sandy gave a straightforward answer to a direct question that was then taken and run with to blow it up into something it never should have been.
Type A personalities have a difference of opinion and get loud with each other, guys who get paid to write about drama stir up drama, people desperate for baseball news eat it all up.
did I miss anything?
sweet cheese us…
first u get on Santana for not being in “pitching shape”
but have absolutely NOTHING to say when Marcum is in the SAME predicament…
then when Santana attempts to pitch, u suggest he be fined?
make up your mind already.
also, technically, Johan Santana will be paid 20.5 mil for this season and if the mets find a trade partner, depending on when they choose to pay the 2014 option, Johan’s 5 mil option for next season may not even get paid in 2014…
5.5 mil is deferred.
saying he is making 31 mil is disingenuous
He pitched off a mound because he had to prove he is “a man.”
kinda like in 2008…when he pitched with a bum knee and threw a complete game shutout in the 2nd to last game of the season.
Santana needs to have a big year, it’s one of those things that has to break right if the Mets are to have any chance at all. He could have a good year and the team could still suck (in which case he’ll be traded), but if we’re to have an outside shot, Johan needs to be out there healthy. Collins knows that, Alderson knows that, and Santana knows that.
If we had a hot because of good pitching then why didn’t we just keep Dickey then?
I understand what your saying but we already went by that bridge where a shot sue to pitching was there and we passed….
Santana’s season has an impact on one thing and one thing only now….
How much you get for him…Which even if he is lights out and throws two no Hitters is not going to be all that much considering the option and lack of comp pick next year….
If he doesn’t have a big year then Santana becomes at best a 5th starter somewhere at a severely reduced salary if he ust manages to last the entire season or moves to the pen if he doesn’t.
I think the reason Dickey was moved instead of Santana was because Santana was essentially untradeable because of health issues and his contract. The organization had other prevailing needs which were filled adequately (and then some) via the Dickey deal. As much as I loved having R.A., the Dickey deal was a no-brainer. The fact that there is talk about flipping a slightly modified version of the Dickey return for Stanton speaks to the quality of what we got back for him.
Johan wants to be traded now and not in June. Terry, who presided over the meltdown last year (I know, some still think it was all because Dillon Gee went on the DL), has no clue. Sandy is biding his time and in the meantime NY NL fans take the hit.
As for Santana, I don’t want to hear anymore about what a pro he is or about being a competitor. A real pro wouldn’t risk his health”
Wait what???? Had this being David wright, you would’ve praised him for how much of a leader he is for playing through pain or showing he’s the man, yet another double standard hating post.. SMH
You’ll never get over David Wright. His class is beyond what you can deal with!!!
No doubt DW is all class. The point made though was DW gets a free pass.
If David Wright were to murder, cook, and eat his fiance on national t.v….
Wow, you guys are too ridiculous to be true. I love it!
Russell this is for you: I stated my opinion and you talk trash. Even worse maligning DW who is all class. If not maligning DW then trashing me because I stated an opinion which in effect obviously made you feel to smut it. Well for that you have no clue what class is. You could not present an intelligent dialogue which I doubt you’re capable of doing.
In general for those who like DW no problem I like him too especially his defense. When he is hot no one is better. But let’s face it he is over hyped and does get a free pass with the media.
But let’s face it he is over hyped and does get a free pass with the media.”
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ TIMES 10000000000000000000000
Please enroll yourself in a remedial writing course as soon as possible.
ah, so you had no reply to Hotstreak but instead……….you took time to attack his typing. News to me that a writing course was necessary in order to give opinions.
Then again, so much is news to you, Poor Yorick.
Hey Joe…Think the Sandy side just scored another run in the Banning Competition….
nah, i wouldn’t ban him. There has to be some funny lines, some insults, etc. otherwise it would be too boring. I like seeing the individual personalities come through when emotions run high or the stakes are higher. Gotta laugh to y’know.
Oh I dont care what Joe does with him….Just getting a dig at yet another poster who seems to think starting trouble is fine as long as they can complain and say the other guy started it later….
However, it wasn’t and yet another chance for you to stir the pot.
And if it was DW you and the rest of “the core” would be slamming him about it and would continue to do so for years. You are obsessed with hating the guy…talk about double standards. As “the core” loves to say…”SMH”
Wrong, i’ll say it’s only march. no need to start an all out Vendetta against a guy for not being “in shape” in march 2nd. it’s pointless and it happens all the time. to say he’s not a pro is utterly ridiculous. i stated wright because john delcos has trashed everyone BUT david wright in his articles, at some point we have to throw the bias out the window and start thinking if there’s something else delcos wanna admit about his posts bashing everyone BUT Captain Ambassador America
If Captain Wright had been there he would have NEVER let this happen! Drat that WBC!!!
/
Matt — Yes, yes, yes
If Alderson had never challenged him he probably wouldn’t have pitched. That meas he pitched just to prove something, hours after his own agent said he was burnt out and had to ease back after a long layoff. Santana, in an attempt to show up Alderson and prove his machismo risked injury and showed no regard for his health or his teammates. Let’s stop calling him a class act. This was more of an ass act.
THIS!
And now Santana will do more than he should and probably hurt himself in the proccess!
This whole story is fit for TMZ, not baseball. Does anyone in their right mind think that Santana increased his injury risk more by “throwing off a mound” to a catcher sitting in front of home plate and a greatly reduced intensity, versus long tossing at 180 feet? Come on now. Another Mets mess, and the beat reporter feeding frenzy just throws gas on the fire. The Mets told Santana to rest this winter and he did. He rested right up until training camp, and now is having a hard time getting up to speed. BFD if he misses opening day, or start #2. This has nothing to do with his professionalism, or perparedness, or manhood. I is strictly about the judgment of starting up in January or February. He though resting to Feb would be more beneficial. Time will tell. I would much rather the bitching and moaning focus on the OF myself.
sandy said what he wanted to say. now people here are telling him what he should say? he has been running teams a long time. and if he is unhappy and decides to let his player and the world know—then that is his right. if the player is an ass and then reacts like a petulant child and sneaks out to the mound while the manager is away, he just reinforces the genreal manager’s inference that his preparation for the season has been wanting.
Step right up the next Met to be trashed by the organization and its fans is Johan Santana. We recently tried to destroy the following reps Dickey, and Beltran. I never meet a team that always trashes its own players or throw them under a bus. But Jason Bay we wish you the best of luck.
Todd, and if you notice, those players are the one who often speak their mind or the ones who are on the way out the door. i will never understand how this franchise work, and it seems now it’s getting worst. from top to bottom, this organization is not only sad and pathetic, but classless.
Then why are you here? I’m serious. Why are you a fan? The organization is clueless, you hate the GM, you think the best player on the team is overrated and not a start at all, the franchise has no class. . . and on and on and on. Why are you here? You hate the Mets. You do. You hate them.
Some of us find certain things about the organization frustrating. Some of us objectively disagree with certain moves. We find some things disappointing. But in the end, we love the team.
You hate this team. So why are you here?
This isn’t a personal attack, its a legitimate question. Tell us what you like about the Mets. What makes you a fan. Because I haven’t the faintest idea. All I know is everything you hate.
Same reason you stayed when you hated what Omar was doing….
Or what Harazin was doing….
Or what Grant was doing….
Same reason you stay a citizen of the USA even though you don’t like what the president and congress (opposite of progress) is doing….
I guess we should all just SHUT UP and LOVE whatever pile of crap is force fed us right?
LEMMINGS APPROACH to life my friend!
Might as well be a CORPSICLE!
But you know full well I’m not suggesting everyone just shut up and love. And I’m not saying we should all be Lemmings.
But the constant intense and very personal hatred directed at every single element of the franchise and then even worse at fans who don’t agree with the negativity or might objectively see some positive things from time to time, is just ridiculous. There’s nothing about being a fan in any of that.
We get it. The team sucks. The franchise sucks. Alderson is the anti-christ. Wright is awful. Blah blah blah blah blah.
One can intelligently and reasonably disagree with things. There’s nothing intelligent or reasonable about restating the same opinions over and over and over again.
I’m Sorry DB but the stats so far on ATTACKING people for thier beliefs has the SANDY POSITIVES ahead 3-1 in being BANNED!
So that entire spiel about the people who are down on the team attacking the optimists is just flat out bogus!
The problem is that the optimists keep making arguments that are EASILY disproven or based on thin breakable threads….
And when that is pointed out to them we get posts like your such as:
WHY ARE YOU A FAN?
YOUR NOT A REAL FAN!
WHY DON’T YOU GO ROOT FOR THE PHILLIES OR SOMEONE ELSE?
YOUR JUST A HATER!
Please you have met the REAL enemy here and it is yourself!
It’s the optimists who seemingly get personal and then bitch when it gets mirrored back at ya!
Just stop and make your points….If they are sound there is no need to use the above inflamatory posts to defend what you think is good!
With all due respect Metsie, this is nothing like anything to do with the president or congress. Usually if you rip one or the other (or both) it means you’re not a fan. Or at the very least want an alternative. So back to DBAssasin’s point, Why is he a fan? All he ever does is rip the team. He is either not a fan or a raging and very confused contrarian.
So you LOVED Josh Thole as a catcher right?
HE WAS THE BEST CATCHER IN THE MLB right?
Because if you think differently I guess YOUR NOT A FAN!
Thats what you guys seem to be saying!
How does it work for you?
It’s not that big of a deal. Johan was pissed about what was said, so he wanted to go out and prove people wrong and didn’t want to be talked out of it by his manager, hence not telling hiim. If he really thought it was that much of a risk to his health, he wouldn’t have done it
Yeah, I can see how a fine of even tens of thousands of dollars (which the union would crush) would affect a guy making $31M. While we’re at it, why don’t we try to kill an elephant by pricking it with a sewing needle.
WHA A LUDICROUS ARGUEMENT TO MAJKE… WOULFJOE TORRE OR TONY LaRUSSA KNOW? WHA DIFFERENCE DOES THAT MAKE? SURELY, IN A COMPLEX AS VAST AS MOST ST CAMPS THESE DAYS ANY MANAGER COULD FIND HIMSELF ENGAGED IN “OTHER” MNGT DUTIES ON THE FARSIDE OF CAMP, EWHEN ANY PITCHER DECIDES TO GO OFF ON HIS OWN LIKE TYHIS.
TO ANSWER THE LUDICROUS QUESRTION. I’D SAY OBVIOUSLY, Y E S; BUT AS IN THIS CASE IT WOULD ONLY HAPPEN ONCE! THIS IS MUCH MORE OF A BREAKDOWN IN MNGT STAFF COMMUNICATIONS THAN ANYTHING ELSE & MOST LIKELY WOULD NEVER HAVE OCCURED IF RICKEY BONES WAS PRESENT DOING HIS JOB AS BP COACH INSTEAD OF @ WBC FOR TEAM PURTO RICO. WHICHEVER COACH ASSUMED HIS RESONSIBILITY SHOULD BE REAMED FOR NOT CLEARING SANTANA TO THROW WITH EITHER WARTHAN OR TC. IN THE FUTURE AN OCCURANCE SUCH AS THIS SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED ESP AS COACHES ARE FIREABLE PLAYERS ON GUARANTEEDS ARE NOT!
Which coach gave him the ball and was running the Mound that day?
He is the guy people should be talking about?
If a player was not supposed to play then whoever was overseeing the practice should have stopped him from getting near that mound!
What Santana did yesterday doesn’t matter squat unless he gets hurt because he rushed to show up a GM who should have said nothing but He was sore, He will pitch soon and defuse the situation before it became Content of the Day in the media.
actually, looking at the comments made, there was nothing controversial about Sandy said. he was getting questioned about what the writers saw with Johan, and gave a simple, non-inflamatory answer (that his arm strength was not ready for games or some such).
The one that opened his mouth when he never should have and stirred the pot all up was Johan’s agent, jumping in with the “burnt out” and “did nothing all winter” comments. That IMO is what got everyone’s panties in a bunch, and somehow it seems that Sandy is getting blamed for saying it!
I still am fascinated by the fact people disregard the fact Johan forced the Mets to be the bad guy and decline his wish to play for his country when the whole time Johan wasn’t healthy enough to do so. You don’t think that ticked Alderson and Collins off just a bit?
Johan could have easily said “I need to focus on getting healthy for the Mets and not go to the WBC.” and everything would have been okay. Instead he wanted to leave the team and go pitch when he was throwing slow pitch fastballs in a Mets uniform.
That was not fair of Johan, I love the guy he is as great a competitor as we’ve had in a Mets uniform in a long time – but everything started because he wanted to leave to go pitch and he’s not healthy enough to pitch for the Mets.
He’s getting paid a TON of money. A Ton! He’s made over $50million and pitched 21 times.
“Calling out” a player who doesn’t arrive to camp ready to go when they expected him to be and they are paying him $25 million is hardly a crime. I’m sorry. They have every right to be frustrated with his health.
And honestly, if what was said about Johan is the worst thing ever said about him – I think he’ll be alright.
Cut the crap and get healthy and go earn your paycheck. Case closed. I don’t care about anything else. You’re getting more money than 99% of the players in the sport right now. I don’t care about your feelings when a GM says you aren’t ready. I love ya Johan, I respect ya, I’m never gonna forget June 1st because of you but I’m over this drama.
Yeah he had a gun to Sandy’s head to trash him in the press because he needed motivation….
I mean really what are you getting on retainer from Sandy to even say this?
Santana made a mistake…
I bet you have made some in your life as well….
Until it became an issue where he missed his first regular season start I don’t see why or what they got from trashing Santana in the media…..
The only thing that has resulted is a pissed off Pitcher who may hurt himself just to get back at the GM
What exactly was so “trashing” about what Sandy said when he was asked about Johan? Seriously why are you acting like he called him a 4 letter word?
Was Johan Santana ready to pitch for the Mets? No.
Were the Mets expecting he would be? Yes
Did Johan Santana want to leave the team to go pitch in WBC? Yes
End of story. It’s not like Sandy lied. It’s not like he claimed Johan wasn’t ready when in fact he is.
And who cares if Johan is ticked off? Seriously. Why should I care that a guy making $25 million had his feelings hurt?
Get out there and earn your paycheck. Talk about your feelings to your shrink. Johan is the one with more to lose in 2013 than the Mets. So if this inspire’s Johan, great.
Saying a pitcher was nt in Piching shape is an indictment just as saying a regular player was not in shape when he showed up!
If your boss announced to the world Jessup wasn’t prepared for work you would be upset as well!
True or not he made it an issue about preparedness when it should have just been about going slow because Santana had some soreness NOT RELATED to his past injury!
For a guy who is supposed to be smart and calculating he sure doesn’t calculate how every word he utters to the press must be picked and chosen wisely to avoid such issues and creating things that serve no purpose to the team and it’s winning especially when the most likely result is NEGATIVE….
You call it innocuous only because you like the guy….
Give him any courtesy to screw up!
Even when he does we get Well at the TIME it was smart….
Santana made a mistake…Sandy COMPOUNDED IT by making it a media issue!
Both are wrong….
Either forgive both or indict both!
Santana for the potential of the issue and Sandy ensuring it became one!
He lies (and you guys are fine with it) other times so why not just lie NOW when it actually was warranted to keep the focus on BASEBALL not organizational communication issues!
“If your boss announced to the world Jessup wasn’t prepared for work you would be upset as well!”
If I was making more money than the entire staff of colleagues combined (IE rotation+bullpen) and was paid to be an elite employee then I don’t think I’d have the right to be upset let alone unprepared
What was the end result of Sandy’s comments? Seems to me like a guy with a lot to prove woke up and wants to prove the comments wrong. So I’m not really sure the comments did anything negative.
What does Sandy care if Johan is upset? Seriously, if Johan doesn’t perform for the Mets it’s Johan that has a problem getting a new deal somewhere. So why should Sandy care about his feelings?
True or not true, Johan Santana has made over $80million the last 4 years and has started less than 80 games? True
The guy gave me the fan one of the most amazing moments on June 1st. But this idea that the Mets owe him anything at all since 2009 is laughable. Every paycheck has cashed as far as we know. They don’t owe Johan anything.
And if being honest about one of the highest paid players not being ready to pitch is a crime, then so be it.
Oh please….
It would not matter HOW MUCH you were getting paid you would be upset, in a bad mood and be as defensive as Santana has been if your boss called you out publicly!
What you were getting paid would not matter one bit!
Funny how Marcum is in the same exact boat and we haven’t heard Sandy say BOO about it to the media….
And he is a guy who got worked out and went through a physical before he got signed and if not then why didn’t he before they cut him a check?
Why is it not an issue for Sandy?
Because it’s his signing, Santana isn’t!
As I said both committed misdemeanors….Both are wrong….
But as usual Sandy gets the benefit of the defense while the player who pitched you the first no hitter in Mets history is the goat!
DISPOSABLE HEROES!
The mantra of this organization since Sandy got here because we have disposed of every hero not named David Wright!
And not on good terms either!
Almost all (with the possible exception or Beltran who has merely been polite and kept his mouth shut) were unhappy with the way things were ended!
But before I go let me ask you something regarding what Sandy did….
What did you use as an ALIBI for dismissing Sandy (or the FO in general) for being the source of the Ike Smears?
Why doesn’t that apply equally as well to a guy we intend to trade like Santana?
First, I think you greatly diminish the value of $ versus ego. If a guy making $25million has his feelings hurt I don’t really care. I’m sorry, I don’t.
“Funny how Marcum is in the same exact boat and we haven’t heard Sandy say BOO about it to the media….”
Could it be that he wasn’t asked about Marcum the way he was about Santana?
Could it be Collins addressed Marcum already?
Could it be their 2013 season success relies much more on whether Santana pitches than if Marcum pitches?
Could it be the investment in Santana outweighs Marcum’s by an insane amount?
Could it be that Santana is supposed to be the ace and clocked in at 71 mph when they expected him to be ready?
Couldit be that superstar caliber players are held to a greater standard than Shaun Marcum?
But before I go let me ask you something regarding what Sandy did….
I’m not sure I get your point about Ike to be honest, please elaborate?
Johan Santana is not Ike Davis. He’s an established veteran, supposed to be an ace and is paid like an elite player and he arrived to camp not ready to pitch but he wanted to leave the team to go play in WBC.
You’re excusing a guy who the team has invested time and money in and has supported for years while he went on and wasted their $ and you’re trying to tell me the team is wrong for being frustrated by that?
Ok I’ll clarify the Ike part first…
What did you say when it was suggested Sandy or the FO was the source of the Ike trashing?
A: Why would he trash a player he might want to trade and DEVALUE his trade value by saying those things?
Now apply that thinking here….
Sandy Right or Wrong now? Santana’s trade value is MUCH more in play and likely to be an issue where Ike being traded was only a slight possibility at the time he got trashed!
What the guy gets paid doesn’t matter…In fact the MORE he gets paid the MORE he should be protected because you know any trashing is much more likely to bring an EGOTISTICAL RESULT and response that is not desirable!
trashing your own players in Public is NEVER smart!
Steinbrenner did that and it got him nothing but a bunch of NO’s when it came time to sign guys he wanted!
Just as you will say it’s Sandy’s Job to put the best face forward on this pile of crap we are going to trot out there he should be consistent and continue to put the best face forward on his players even when all he intends for them as far as Met Future is concerned is to trade them (and ESPECIALLY so in the case of wanting to trade him and get a good return back!)
So remember back to the alibi you gave him when Ike was trashed and apply that same logic to what he did with Santana…..
Tell me it was DUMB for him to do it with Ike (therefore not likely he did it) and NOT DUMB to do it with Santana who there is NO QUESTION is best served (to us/Mets) as a mid season trade.
Metsie, been away from my pc all PM but
“What did you say when it was suggested Sandy or the FO was the source of the Ike trashing?
A: Why would he trash a player he might want to trade and DEVALUE his trade value by saying those things?”
Can you please show me where Sandy trashed Ike Davis and where I said what you say I said? I need to add context to both because I really do not remember either thing happening…?
Also, Johan’s “trade” value is 0 until he pitches anyway. So saying he isn’t ready to pitch doesn’t really matter – especially when he isn’t.
Dude an UNNAMED SOURCE trashed Ike Davis at the end of last year….
When it was suggested (WITHOUT PROOF) that it was someone from the FO who did it what did you say to them?
What was the reason given to say the FO WOULD NOT be the source of the leak?
Something about reducing the trade value of a player they might want to trade…
Well the SOURCE is know this time isn’t it?
Does this fit with that reason why they would not have been the source of the Ike trashing?
And regardless of the Ike Situation….
ISN’T THIS exactly the same thing as what happened with Ike only THIS time the source was NAMED and his name was Sandy?
Like I Said before,,,Sandy had every right to be pissed about Santana’s actions…
Santana was WRONG to come to camp out of shape….
Sandy was JUST AS WRONG to trash him and make it a media issue if not for the reason of don’t throw your own players under the bus (which we have now discussed TWO instances of this team doing) But in the trade value issue ALONE all by itself!
Players are getting treated like crap left and right on this team….
Maybe if it didn’t happen 3 or 4 times before to other players it would not be so bad in just this instance….
But it’s a history…It a trend…and it’s a trend thats going to make it pretty hard to get a player to waive a no Trade clause or sign a contract for slightly less than extortionate prices later on!
And it sure isn’t going to do anything in regards to re-signing the players we have developed when it comes time to keep them!
He should have just bit his lip deal with internally (like he claimed when the Ike thing happened) and just let his rage go!
Metsie:
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/09/ike-davis-responds-to-charges-about-staying-out-late-and-resisting-coaching.html
You mean that?
I’m looking for my comments on the situation which you quoted or paraphrased. Do you mind finding me my views?
I’ll be honest, I don’t know if I said anything about the Ike Davis situation because really I don’t even remember it – and I go to that link and see nothing from me – so if you can help me find where I said “Why would he trash a player he might want to trade and DEVALUE his trade value by saying those things?” about Ike Davis – please let me know?
Lets forget if you said it or not for a moment….Not important really to the point I’m making….
(I promise I will try to find the quote later and see if it was you or if I am in error and it was someone else….)
Do you agree (or not) that a GM should not (and could) diminish the value of a player who he may want to trade in the near future by trashing him publicly?
Forget the Circus, the justification or the MERIT of thre trashing….
Is it smart to trash a guy who your BIGGEST hope this year is he does really well so you can trade him and be done with the contract, the option, the innings counts etc…etc…
My knock on Sandy isn’t based on moral grounds….It’s tactical!
I’m already on record that he had enough justification in the moral dept.
It’s the tactical and it does not look good towards any players that are here or we may soon WANT to be here….plus the area of Santana trade value I already mentioned.
So have you once ever criticized Sandy for the way the team has handled several public relation disasters?
Dickey?
Reyes?
Ike ?
now Santana ?
Yep Damaja, I have never criticized Alderson
oh
wait
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/5-things-sandy-handled-poorly.html
“Lets forget if you said it or not for a moment”
So does that mean, I didn’t say it?
You realize your entire point to me is based on me saying something… that now you’re telling me to forget if I said it or not?
Well answer the question yes or no instead of hiding behind the hope I don’t find the quote…
I would ACCEPT whatever answer you gave to the question regardless of what you said or didn’t sday in the past…
So answer the question please and stop avoiding it….
“Do you agree (or not) that a GM should not (and could) diminish the value of a player who he may want to trade in the near future by trashing him publicly?”
This is not about your PAST statements this is about DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH THE ABOVE?
YES OR NO thats all it takes dude…
If you refuse to answer that question then all we can assume is you have something to hide and wish to change your mind at a later date HOPING no one will bother to look for the last time you answered that same question…
The Question is posed…Do you agree or disagree?
Metsie
This thread is the root of my only issue with you. I don’t mind disagreeing with you, I don’t think you lack rational thoughts – but what you do is you get overly excited to make a point that you throw facts aside.
You claimed that *I* said something about Ike Davis which created your entire point.
“What did you say when it was suggested Sandy or the FO was the source of the Ike trashing? A: Why would he trash a player he might want to trade and DEVALUE his trade value by saying those things?”
“So remember back to the alibi you gave him when Ike was trashed and apply that same logic to what he did with Santana…..”
Then when I showed you I said nothing you said it didn’t matter. You didn’t say “sorry for misquoting you” you claimed it didn’t matter.
But it DID matter enough to start the argument because you thought you had me. You thought you caught me and you tried to make me look foolish.
I don’t need to defend somebody else’s views. I don’t think comparing anonymous sources and a GM answering a question in public is the valid.
So I’m not going to go back and forth on this because your attempt was to “catch me” not to have a discussion… and when it turned out to be a false accusation, you didn’t acknowledge the mistake – you claimed accusing me doesn’t matter.
“not going to go back and forth on this because your attempt was to “catch me” not to have a discussion”
This is the ROOT of all your problems debating with people here….
You are MORE concerned with people GETTING you than you are actually discussing the concepts and ideas of the moment!
I gave you EVERY opportunity to GO ON RECORD with your opinion on the question asked REGARDLESS of what you said in the past or not….Your answer would have been accepted as FACT and we could then move on from this BULL we are now knee deep in and we could have moved onto the much more entertaining and relevant fact of this thread which is WAS SANDY RIGHT to trash a player REGARDLESS of having a good reason to trash him or not!
You REFUSED (and it is clear now) to go on that record because you were more worried about getting CAUGHT than you were in making your opinions clear on this topic!
Maybe if you approached debates on issues with a little less paranoia you might find I’m not AFTER YOU…Just trying to get you guys to go on record
Since you refuse to clarify your position on this I don’t feel the need to go search for your past statements here regarding similar circumstances because it’s quite clear your FEAR of getting caught is great enough to assume you probably WOULD get caugt if I put the effort into finding it.
If you claim to have NOT gone on record on this concept before I was perfectly ready to ACCEPT that and gave you the opportunity to go on record now….
YOU SEEM TO BE REFUSING….
I wonder why?
What are you afraid of if you NEVER flip flop on opinions as you suggest?
I agve you the courtesy to go on record…
You were too scared to do that weren’t you?
Your paranoia is starting a fight that didn’t need to be if you had just gone on record and answered the question that was asked….
If you never said anything then I could not GET YOU could I?
And we would be talkign about your answer to the question not how paranoid you are that the world is out to get you!
The team isn’t wrong for being frustrated, it’s wrong for not being able to be far more diplomatic about it’s frustration. Terry Collins handled this issue perfectly. Alderson did not.
BINGO!
Sandy wasn’t UNJUSTIFIED….No one is saying Sanatan was in the right…
But Sandy made an issue that didn’t need to be an issue…
And in the end he did more to hurt Santana’s value to hm without getting any etra starts out of him anyway!
Call him in the office, Tell him how pissed you are….
When the media asks just say Medical says he is clear to go we are just going slow to not push the injury….
METSIE, PERHAPS HE WAS PROVIDING HIS “COVER STORY” TO SUPPORT SANTANA’S CONTINUED VALUE IN CASE SANTANA BOMBS EARLY WHEREAS HAD HE WAITED UNTIL AFTER A BAD PERFORMANCE HE’D JUSTIFIABLY BLAMED FOR “MAKING EXCUSES”
THIS WAY SANDY HAS LAID THE DUAL GROUNDWORK IN CASE SANTANA,
1) IS OUTSTANDING… THEN IT READS SANTANA ATILL HAS WRRIOR HEART OVERCOMING LONGEST ODDS OR…
2) SANTANA BOMBS, EARLY WBC REPORT DATE THROWS OFF VETERAN’S TIMING FOR READINESS SHOUYLD SMOOTH OUT RETURNING TO NORMAL DOMINANCE IN TIME
METSIE, EITHER WAY, HE SURELY GOT THE VET OFF HIS ASS & AS A “SORT-TIMER” WHO REALLY CARES IF HE HATES ALDERSONM OR NOT IT ISN’T AS IF ALDERSON WILL RVER NEED TO SIT ACROSS A NEGOTIATION TABLE FROM JOHAN IN EITHER’S LIFETIME.
OTHER GM’S WILL DISREGARD TOTALLY AS A VETERAN’S PROVEN COMBASTABILITY OUTWEIGHS ANY PRESEASON FRONTOFFICE SCRAP. BESIDES EVERY INTELLIGENT GM WILL MORE LIKELY PASS DUE TO SANTANA’S DISMAL TOTAL OF POST JULY GS SINCE 2005.. VERY,VERY FREW, I BELIEVE ONLY SINGLE DIGIT TOTAL COMPILED OVER ENTIRE NYM CONTRACT PERIOD. GETTING MORE THAN A SERVICABLE POSITIONAL MINOR LEAGUER WILL BE AN ACCOMPLISHMENT!
Well a better cover story would have been to say Santana overdid it in his first workout and had some soreness so they were keeping him out and taking extra precautions to ensure he did not overdo it and risk hurting in a more permanent way….
Then Santana can retain his LION status, The Injury can be taken out of the picture, and it all looks like a medical decision not a problem with Santana’s work ethic, injured shoulder or anything serious….
Yes it got Santana off his butt….
I think a private challenge would get the same affect….
The question really is if he is NOT in condition and he could not go because of it does FORCING him to get up when he is not ready actually a good thing or a bad thing?
If you just minimize the entire story and let him go when he IS READY then if he breaks down it’s all on Santana!
Now if he gets hurt Sandy must take some of the blame in making him get up and work before the arm is ready that may be the cause of the injury if it happens….Sure Santana will share some of the blame but thats opposed to sharing ALL of it because he wasn’t in shape.
There are times to push an issue and then there are times to let them die!
This was a time to let it die or never give it life in the first place….
doesnt appear Marcum is ready either…Maybe we should actually sign guys that re healthy and this problem would go away. cant hang marcum on Johan? Does Sandy wear this one? or is it Omars fault
Marcum pitched 2 scoreless innings today.
NEITHER BECAUSE SANDY INHERITED HIM & OMAR ONLY ACQUIRED THE RIGHTS TO HIM WITH JEFF, ALONE, NEGOTIATING THE DEAL WITH JOHAN’S AGENT BEHIND CLOSED,LOCKED DOORS
ALLOW ME TO FURTHER CLARIFY MY GENERALIZED STATEMENT ABOVE Re. JOHAN’S POST JULY RECORD AS A NY MET AS
YEAR #POST JULY GS
2008 10
2009 4
2010 7
2011 0 DNP
2012 2
TOTAL 23 OVER 5 YRS OR 4.6/Y AVG. WHAT IS THE GOING EXCHANGE RATE IN PROSPECTS FOR >5GS OF A ONE TIME ‘ACE’
If only there was a position in a baseball organization that had somebody manage the various personalities and egos in the clubhouse and would smooth things over and not instigate needless controversy. We could call the position general manager.
Alderson instigated a three day controversy and you would have to be a complete moron to not realize that a statement like that would create a firestorm in the media and that it would enrage your $25 million pitcher whose value you are trying to build up. It was a royal screw up and for once the media called Alderson on it.
If Santana misses two starts at the beginning of the year, is that the biggest deal in the world? Collins handled this exactly right.
I don’t think the WBC stuff is – or should be an issue. I doubt the Mets care all that much about looking like the bad guy to Venezuelan fans – besides its clear now that Johan wouldn’t have been able to pitch anyway. I think they are a bit annoyed about him not being ready, but not so much about having to be the one to turn down the WBC thing
Perhaps the whole reason WHY Santana didn’t work as hard as he should is because he knew they were never going to let him play in the WBC and he decided if he didn’t need to be ready to play in the WBC he had all the time in the world to get ready for the season.
Not saying it is a good excuse but if his playing in the WBC has any bearing here thats as good a reason for what happened as anything anyone else has come up with….
He was disappointed he couldn’t play for his country and so decided to take it easy and not overwork just to have a better spring for a team who denied him the WBC….
Thats as plausible a scenario as anything…
The team that’s paying him boatloads of money!!!
As they say, you cannot make up this sort of nattering opinion. Whoa.
money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money
IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL you know…..
No wonder why so many people think Sandy (and his friends here) are EVIL INCARNATE!
Your all about the MONEY!
Your all playing MONEYBALL instead of BASEBALL!
Perhaps, Metsie, pigs will develop wings and fly tomorrow.
Guess you missed Pink Floyd in concert and those recent Geico commercials….
Metsie — You’re a guy who claims he doesn’t care about the financial parts of the game. For example you care little about what it costs the Mets to put a product on the field. It’s their problem, not yours, you’ve said. But you sure make it the subject of so much you write about. It seems to bug you they make money.
Whose misleading now….
You guys always reply about money as an excuse for EVERYTHING….
Don’t get him MONEY
Can’t Keep him MONEY!
Get Kids NO MONEY!
Bitch about your starter…MONEY!
Forgive a scrub NO MONEY!
ALL I have ever said is they should make a BASEBALL team based on BASEBALL decisions not some what accountant thinks….
But you made up Nick folks go right on trying to lie your way through an argument!
Many Fifth graders don’t care if the Teams books are in order if they SUCK too!
They still say they SUCK!
Name one MLB team who has ever entered into Bankruptcy
How many times havethe Yanees who have spent more than anoy other team been there?
So yes this Fifth grade persepective is about as accurate as thier perspective on Santa being REAL!
Metsie, your excuse for Johan not working hard is more of an indictment and insult to Johan than anything Alderson said about him.
If you’re telling me a former cy young award winner making $25mil doesn’t “work hard” because he thinks he won’t be allowed to go to WBC – then that is way worse.
Yep but I’m not his boss so I can insult him all I want it’s not considered a job review or taken as insight on the player by other GMs hurting his trade value is it?
ww.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/364622-pujols-not-cleared-to-play-in-wbc
Pujols who wore number #5 and forced DW to wear #4 the last WBC did the same thing to the Angels and forced them to say “NO”. A patroit will force the issue to show wear his heart is knowing it probably will be declined. Your issue on “forcing to say no” is IMO bogus.
Wanna know what’s amazin to me? How a non story is getting this coverage on MMO. where were all the hating post about wright going awol on the manager because he was taken out of the game? instead, all we got was he was being a leader, he’s a fiery guy, he’s the ambassador, but for a guy that’s being injury on his tenure as a met, but has been a warrior for the team this is the disrespect and treatment he gets here in MMO? A place where supposedly the bias and double standard doesn’t exist? Yeah right….. It’s amazing the stuff i see here each day now.
I am not sure that AWOL is what you mean. Unless he jumped out of the dugout and then ran into the stands.
AWOL – Absent Without Leave
If I remember correctly, words were exchanged between Wright and TC in the dugout. Wright disappeared down the tunnel for an inning, came back and was shown standing next to TC calmly talking.
If anything, it was exactly the same as Johan and his “I’m a man” moment on the mound when he did not want to come out of a game. he is a gamer, he wants to stay in.
Wright was taken out to protect him, and was upset about it. frankly, I would have been more upset if he hadn’t gotten pissed at terry over that.
Well technically when Terry pulled him out of the game he was no longer WITHOUT LEAVE! LOL
He may have been absent but Terry did make him LEAVE the game! LOL
Its thin but I’ll take it!
I had no heartache with what went down that day – although I think TC should have left him in the game. Wright expressing his immediate opinion to Terry in the dugout for the cameras to focus in on is the only reason this was even a small controversy. He was seen later talking calmly to Terry and he was quoted after the game as saying once he calmed down, he went back and apologized to Terry for ‘jumping all over him’. And I use that phrase loosely as Wright was seen about 5 feet from Terry yelling – not directly in his face – and no blows even came close to be thrown.
Wright’s often accused of not showing enough fire or emotion. This time he does. It’s a little damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.
AWOL is predominately a military term basically meaning ‘you ain’t where you’re supposed to be at the time you’re supposed to be there.’ — Punishable by a court martial in the military world and docked without pay/suspended/fired in the civil service world.
I think Terry probably did the right thing considering Wright’s history of the beaning…
And by the same token I think Wright HAD to show he was as upset as he did because the move Terry made did make Wright look bad….
One of those cases where everyone was right but it looked like it was all horribly wrong!
Sorry, i guess i should’ve used “He almost punch the manager in the face.” Had not been for a couple of players, the ambassador would’ve did that…
You don’t really believe that do you? You must have him confused with welterweight champ and resident mental patient who spent time in Citi Field’s only padded cell, K-Rod.
the same guy that defended his fellow bullpen mate from Tony Bernazard on the team bus.
uncontrollable fire, but at times when aimed in the right direction, useful
Too bad he can’t aim his pitches anymore. Has he even signed yet?
Does your definition of AWOL mean Always Wright On Leadership?
What do you mean where was all the hate on MMO when Wright got into it with Collins – you cover it well with bringing it up on a regular basis. You bring enough hate to cover it for the million others.
Almost punched him in the face, what are you talking about, they weren’t even close to coming to a physical fight, but if those dramatics get you through your hate, go for it. Wright was heated because he wanted to stay in the game and didn’t want any special treatment, shameful isn’t it.
You say you’ve played baseball, you mean to tell me, you acted like a choir boy when the manager took you out in the middle of the game, because there was a presumption you may or may not have take one for the team by being hit after your pitcher hit the other team?
First time in the history of MLB a player was upset with a manager for taking them out of the game.
Stop already, it’s really time to take off the hate blinders, they are really making you look silly.
You tell him Kay. Wright was angry because he wanted to stay in the game. Santana is angry because he wanted to get another month off on top of the five months he already had off supposedly getting ready for 2013. One fought for the right reasons the other fought because his ego was hurt and was embarrassed when word of his six month vacation came out and that his arm was not ready to go. By the way, Dillon Gee and Bobby Parnell didn’t have that problem they came ready to play.
Lisa: You make it sound like “He had it coming”.
Maybe he did but it should have been privately.
Remember when the Mets were trying to get out of paying Beltran?
I will still go to war with Santana in the fox hole with me.
Hello Lisa P
I don’t think Johan wanted another month off at all, and as usual, I think this whole situation is being blown out of proportion by the media, just another day right?
I’m just so sick of every issue being turned into a “but if Wright…..” and it becomes Player X vs Wright, when they are all NY Mets and I want them ALL to be their best.
Someone (I forget who) posted a picture on Twitter of Johan bowling with the boys on their usual Sunday night outing, I’m sure, if this was THAT big of a deal to him he would have conveniently missed that evening out, he did not, he was smiling and seemed to be having a good time with is team.
6 month vacation?
What are u talking about??
Santana pitched on a bum leg during a meaningless 2nd half after throwing over 130 pitches to give our franchise their first no-hitter.
I’ll go to battle with Santana 7 days a week and 2x on Sunday.
Wright can do all the talking to the reporters afterwards
Alex68 — Each and every day you amaze me. Today’s nugget shows your continued state of confusion regarding David Wright. Keep it up Alex. We all need a good laugh. Too bad it happens at your expense, but you’re choosing to make it so.
I think counting on Johan for more than 8-10 credible to good starts and then disappearing and getting lit-up like last year is wishful thinking. It’s going to be an interesting and touchy situation if Johan is getting bombed start after start like his stretch last year and Zack is ready to be called up. As a side note- acc. to Rubin, Marcum hitting just 84-85 with his fastball in the B game today.
so marcum was right, he just needed to build up a little arm strength, and would be ready by OD?
because I don’t think in-season he throws a heck of a lot harder than that. Maybe 88-90 tops?
As a fan, I really don’t care much about who said what and whose fault it is. I think management wants him to succeed. I think he wants to succeed. I think both sides have their hearts in the right place, and everyone can make poor decisions with both their actions and their words. But everyone has the same goals in mind. All this other stuff is BS.
The bottom line for me is what are we going to get out of Santana this year. Personally I am not expecting much. I felt that way months ago and recent events have done nothing to change my opinion one way or the other. Santana hasn’t been strong and healthy for years. We got a couple of good months out of him last year but things quickly went south. His arms seem shot and his shoulders seem shot.
If he can rebuild his repertoire around placement and finesse, maybe we see some positive results. But he’ll never throw heat again and he won’t give 200 strong innings. Again, this was the case whether he came into camp in the best shape of his life or if he came in 20 pounds overweight eating twinkies.
Question: does David Wright need a restraining order against MMO’s own RESIDENT-HATER-IN-CHIEF, Alex68?
As for the real story, the increasingly unhinged Johan, I honestly think that the sooner Mets part ways with this guy, the better off the team will be. He’s into the decline phase of his career and he ain’t coming back. Velocity is gone, and you cannot live on a change-up with no significant fastball.
Typical Russel Zanca. Always riding the wave and changing opinions as the mood flows. A guy strikes out 3 times, hits into a DP = trade him, hits a game winning HR the next day = sign him to a long term contract.
Today it’s Santana, some pre-season controversy = get rid of him. Now probably the next time Santana pitches and it’s a shut-out = resign him he’ll help the younger pitchers.
Here’s Russell Zanca on the day Santana pitched his no-hitter:
Russell Zanca June 2, 2012 at 2:55 pm
“Last night, I just know, was one of my greatest moments as a Mets fan in forty-odd years of rooting, and I know it will remain so…..You see, unlike Beltran (and no offense to him), Santana is a true Mets hero! “
And that proves… absolutely zilch.
I stand by every word I wrote. The rest of 2012 for JS, not too good.
Haven’t said ever that he won’t retain his hero and warrior status as a Met for the good pitching and attitude he’s provided, but I think he’s washed up. Could be wrong.
DISPOSABLE HEROES!
It’s the latest Met Fan Trend the past two years….
I wonder how long it will go on?
Good song by Metallica by the way.
If Johan can’t pitch anymore then you may have to look towards Wheeler or Hefner to replace during the course of the season. Kyle Lohse is still out there but could cost the Mets a draft pick, so its an small, narrow window to sign him.
I don’t think it matters how Santana does this season as far as Wheeler is concerned….
Only affect from performance is the return in trade…From nothing to something…
In either case Wheeler is up (barring a setback) by August and Santana is no longer a Met by the time November rolls in if not sooner due to his being traded…..
The real question will be Marcum….Hefner will likely replace an loss of him not Wheeler….
But if Hfner falters the pressure to bring up Wheeler will mount!
I see. Perhaps we try a different tack: if JS has an ERA of 5.79 through six starts, would you opt to keep him in the rotation?
“Disposable?” A very silly term…Tom Seaver is a hero, but I don’t want him taking the mound now.
I didn’t make him a hero over one good game in a very bd season….YOU did!
I didn’t REMOVE or diminish Beltran’s status because of a curveball or a botched diagnosis of a knee that caused him to miss more time than he should have….
You guys did….Not Me!
With all due respect, that’s idiotic. His NH was the culmination of great performances over several years AS A MET!
Beltran played terrific baseball for the Mets. Beltran is a fine baseball player. He did not do anything heroic.
Shall we discuss heroism next?
“”You see, unlike Beltran (and no offense to him), Santana is a true Mets hero!”
ummm…u just called Santana a hero….
Beltran is one of baseball’s biggest philanthropists, played through a cracked skull, played in the NLCS while he just lost his newborn child, played through all sorts of disgusting criticism…
the mets have had several hero’s in the past few years….
so its not a surprise that the wilpons dump on all of them !
beltran
dickey
santana
Good thing we traded Dickey.