14
2013
Enjoy The Spectacle of Captain America, But Don’t Forget Reality Sets In On April 1
An article by 
Isn’t it amazing what kind of a player David Wright can be when he’s actually surrounded by some legitimate major league talent?
Currently, Wright is enjoying some of the most spectacular baseball he’s ever played in his career, and why not? We’ve all seen what the Mets All Star third baseman could do before when he had great protection in the lineup.
It was no coincidence that Wright had his best two seasons as a Met when both Carlos Delgado and Carlos Beltran were lethal weapons for the Mets, before each of them got hurt and became less effective.
Back then, we saw what “Captain America” was capable of, and things haven’t been the same since Dos Carlos were last seen together in a Mets lineup with David Wright.
It’s been a grind for Wright since the 2009 season. Sure, he’s had his moments and even a couple of tremendous halves on two occasions. But not nearly the kind of consistent seasons we saw from Wright during the three year stretch spanning 2006-2008.
I believe that on Omar Minaya’s part, he understood that Wright needed that protection and while Jason Bay ended up being a complete and colossal bust, nobody could have predicted the AL’s leading home run and RBI man would collapse the way that he did once he joined the New York Mets. Then the money ran out.
Wright now enters the 2013 season with way too many question marks in the lineup. Lucas Duda is 27 and is still a project just as he was two years ago. Ike Davis has yet to put together two good halves and form one solid season. And it looks like Collin Cowgill and Marlon Byrd may log a lot of playing time this season if we are to believe the daily reports from the Mets’ beat writers and some of the things Sandy Alderson and Terry Collins have said.
That’s a far cry from the likes of Eric Hosmer, Ryan Braun, Joe Mauer and Giancarlo Stanton, who are some of the players that are sandwiching Wright on Team USA’s power-packed, star-studded lineup.
So while some of us look upon what Wright is doing with astonishment and excitement, lets understand what we are really seeing here. These amazing moments are most likely not a portent of things to come during the Mets 2013 regular season. I urge and caution all of my fellow Met fans to reign in any gaudy expectations your mind may have already conjured up and dial it back a few notches.
Go ahead and savor what David Wright is currently doing in the World Baseball Classic and relish every moment. Be proud of what Wright accomplishes with every mighty swing of his bat. But don’t forget that it’s only March 14, and that the real baseball season begins on April 1. That is when reality will sink in for most of us, but mostly for David Wright as well. He returns to a lineup devoid of the type of talent he surrounds himself with now.
So enjoy the spectacle we have before us while it lasts, and Go Team USA!
* * * * * * * *
This Fan Shot was contributed by MMO reader, KMaxx.
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Kmaxx always on the money with an honest evaluation.
As I said before, enjoy it while it lasts because when the season starts, it’s going to get UGLY!!!
It’s already ugly down is PSL!
This team is low grade double A!
They can’t leave here soon enough!
KMAXX, the CORE you know salute you and support you, we’ve been saying the same thing yet we’re called haters. get ready for the wright supporters to come at you hard, but have no fear, we will protect you and back you up, because despite some people saying that maybe wright was the best players during those seasons, delgado and beltran’s resume speak for themselves, those 2 never missed a beat, meanwhile, Captain america has been nothing but a roller coaster type player without them in the lineup…
Thanks for dousing us all with a bucket of ice water.
P, the problem is, they’re shoving this Captain America down our throats just because the guy has had a good 4 game stretch against mediocre pitching at best, good for him, but reality is, no mets fan with a sense of reality is going goo goo gaga over what he’s doing, he’s done it before with us, he gets super hot and you cannot get the man out, but then……… he gets cokld as ice. then his numbers even out to his career avg which has been 285+ 18+ 75+ in the last 4 seasons, you know, since the 2 carlos were not protecting him…
Yup, I highly doubt Wright will be enjoying coming up to the plate with bases loaded more often than not this season.
I know i said this in the other Captain America article, but :”If anybody that wants to have a friendly wager, let me know, if USA wins, i ban myself for a whole week, if DR Wins, same goes to you… anybody up to the challenge let me know”
Random, Let me know
Not sure I want to risk a self imposed ban for a week. DR has a good team.
Now if this was a couple of bucks,I’d do it in a NY minute.
Lol, hey, i am taking the risk too, USA is loaded as well, come on….. Y’all always complaining about us and most of you bait us to get ban, yet now nobody wants to step to the plate? Come on, it’s only one week.
I’ll step up!
Sure, then it’s settle, one week ban… If USA wins, i’ll ban myself for an entire week, from march 18th to march 25th. If team DR wins, you do the same….
IT’S ON!!!!
Damn, I’m gonna miss one of you guys. Self-Banning… You two may have created the latest new big craze since Silly Putty.
Glad you see this, one week self ban is always fun, it’s also a way to see who holds true to their word. honesty plays a big part in this as well. Go Team DR!!!!!!!!!!!
so what happens if neither team wins?
We ALL get banned for a week!
Joe, if you really want some insight into your readership here, put up a poll asking people which team they want to win!
http://i.imgur.com/LKmc4jO.png?1
Praise Dickey!
http://i.imgur.com/R9diD8d.png
Good luck, guys.
Thanks SRT… Won’t need it though. I am as confident as david wright with the game on the line
Ha! We shall see.
You probably could have just gotten away with a one week moratorium on talking about Wright than a full on ban! LOL
But no balls no glory!
LOL
Look like Alex stays and Metro and Salty are gone for a week….
DR WIns 3-1
Wrights numbers will be .300/20Hr/90-100RBI just like always.
And yes do NOT get excited about a players performance in the WBC. While I am glad he is doing well, it is what he does for the NYMets that interests me.
Task, but his average last 4 years has been:
290 18 82 so how can you predict ” .300/20Hr/90-100RBI” and say “just like always”?
Are Task’s numbers really that far off? They look reasonable to me.
Well, he said always, i can nitpick if i want, i just gave you those 4 years because the last 4 years is when the carloses are no longer protecting him while he was getting all the credit, if you ask me, hitting 280 is not hitting 300 hitting 18 HR is not 20 HR, and 82 RBI per season doesn’t translate to 100 RBI. If you want your “STAR” player to put up those numbers, then you’re asking for 100 losses for years to come..
While true, you are also factoring in one down year into that equation.
Out of the 8 years he has been a regular in the majors he has
20 or more home runs 6 times and over a .300 BA 6 times. The RBI one, I think it will be pushing it to have 100 RBI this year.
It is very simple Alex.
Your last 4 year numbers include 2011 when he hit .254/14/61 in 100 games after suffering a fractured back. I think it safe to say that isnt an example of his average while accounting for the decrease in avg. Hr and RBI in your numbers.
If you remove 2011, his average is about .300…a number he exceeded last season. As for the HRs, he hit 10 in 2009 which isnt him and 29 in 2010 which also isnt likely him anymore. Thus, 20 is the average you can expect….again a number he hit last season. RBI totals are dependent upon other factors than the hitter obviously but, again, we see Wright very close based upon his averages throughout his career.
To Task and TRS…..
Kudos for pointing out the Inclusion of the OUTLIER in the statistical metric….
But what he did was NO DIFFERENT than the argument made that Sandy’s teams have won more in his first two years than Omars teams won in his last two isn’t it?
I commend you for pointing out the manipulation!
Now if you would point it out when it happens on the OTHER side we might actually get something REAL to compare and evaluate as opposed to these attempt to SLANT data in favor of one side or the other….
Like when reyes’s Games Played average was noted to say he misses too many games when he really only missed games in two of those years that brought down the number of years he didn’t miss as much time….
Or as stated the case of WINS of Sandy vs Omar by including 2009 to bring the fact no Sandy team has won as much as the 2010 squad even….
Maybe if we made a concerted effort to stop flks from using Outliers to make something look WORSE than it is no none would do it anymore!
But if one side continues then both sides will continue!
how the heck does pointing out that the last 4 years includes 1 where he played hurt 1/2 of it, and missed a 1.4 of it, have the faintest to do with your endless omar vs. sandy battle?
Because when you say Sandy won more the first two years than Omar won the LAST two is doing the SAME THING!
Including an INURY PLAGUED SEASON to bring the numbers you eventually compare down to give advantage to the other guy!
Putting Wrights injury plagued season (by the way time to work on your Fractions) is no different than including Omars one HORRIBLY INJURY PLAGUED season into a team win total and comparing it to a guy who didn’t have those same injuries!
A guy who hasn’t won as many games as the team that got the GM FIRED!
well, task and TRS made absolutely no mention of anything related to omar/sandy or team wins, so it really just seemed to be digging up the dead horse just to kick it for no reason again.
Not today they didn’t……
But write a fan post that pits Sandy vs Omar and watch the responses…..
To start, I never said that Sandy won more games in his first two years than Omar did in his final two. In fact, I have never looked up to know who won more. The only thing I know is that the Mets finished 4th 4 years in a row.
As for Reyes, there is one problem with your comparison….he missed substantial time 3 or his last 4 years in a Met uniform. His GP were 159, 36, 133, and 126. He missed at least 20% of the games 3 years in a row. That is called a trend. If he played 160 for 3 years and missed an entire season, you could throw out the off year.
But thank you for bringing it to an automatic Wright versus Reyes argument again.
And have stayed there two years later which means Sandy should get a pat on the back? Good GM?
I know your not in the same class as Metro is….Thank goodness….
But you do seem to err on the side of Sandy is doing the right thing when all he has done is keep a team IN PLACE in the standings while losing more games at the same time than the team he inherited….
And I get the whole spiel about reyes missing games…he missed games in 2011 too and WON A DAMN BATTING TITLE!
What did we get for that?
Plawlecki?
Even if you can find someone who thinks he will be the next great Met homegrown no one thinks he is going to get CLOSE to being a Battin champion type player….
And then we traded away a Cy Young player to ensure he never gets the CHANCE on top of it…
There were many fans of reyes who might feel a bit better if they had gotten something to look forward to in exchange for him….Would it have made them completly happy? Doubful but they might not be as cranky as they have been….
And they certainly would have accepted a trade for future better if they stayed consistent and did the same thing for Wright who many deem to be on equal footing as far as contribution to the Mets are concerned as they were two sides of the same scoring coin….Reyes gets on Wright drives him in. Both are contributors!
What makes this Wright vs Reyes thing so prevelant is that Wright was more in decline while reyes had seemingly been getting better!
Yet here we are calling Wright capt America and it’s all the same people who trashed Reyes on the last day of the season because he didn’t stay in a game and risk losing that FIRST BATTING CHAMP TITLE in MET HISTORY and said who cares let him go without making an offer because he is not worth it!
If you decide YOUR faviorite player deserves kudos then don’t trash dsomeone else’s favorite player when those kudos are MUCH MORE DESERVED and if you do expect them to do to YOUR gfavorite player what you did to thiers….
Now maybe you weren’t here for that (pretty sure not) but thats the history here and thats why your seeing what your seeing regarding Wright vs Reyes!
Also Sandy vs Omar….
So quick to appluad Sandy who has never won as many games as the team that got Omar fired and it’s AGAIN all the same people who said Omar should be fired for not winning more games only so many that Sandy has not won YET!
But Sandy is doing a good job the other guy ishould be fired….
For what? Winning MORE games than Sandy?
I know it sounds like piling on here and I really don’t mean it that way now but this question just popped into my head. What about the pitchers he’s facing in the WBC? Have any of these heroics been off major league pitchers? Forgive my ignorance but i don’t watch the WBC
Some, some not. Some are highly touted prospects, some are guys pitching for their lives (career) and some are trying to make an impression by striking out David Wright or any other MLB guy. However, what we do know is he is facing the same pitchers the other guys are.
Bayonne, here are the pitchers he’s faced:
Gallardo (MLB) 1-2 1 rbi
Luis Mendoza 1-1
Fernando Salas 0-1
Luca Panerati 0-1
Marco Grifantini 0-1
M Torra 1-1 4 rbi
Brian Sweeney 0-1
P Venditte 1-1
Jameson Taillon 1-1 rbi
Dustin Molleken 0-1
Jim Henderson 0-0 BB
Scott Mathieson 0-0 BB
Mario Santiago 0-2 rbi
A Santiago 1-1
J.C. Romero (MLB) 0-1
X Cedeno 1-1 3 rbi
Other than romero and gallardo, he’s faced nobodies…. But hey, we shouldn’t point that out..
LOL Wow all Household names….
That is if you live in the same phonless, internetless, Newspaperless household compound Osama lived in….LOL
I think it’s very important that you did that research Alex because nobody else sure as hell would have.
I mentioned it and i can’t remember who said he was facing “Top Level” pitchers Lmao!!!!!!!!
But…as trs pointed out, all the rest of the USA team is facing those same pitchers and they don’t have the same numbers Wright is putting up. Gotta give him some credit here.
Heck, Stanton was looking so bad at the plate they sat him for one game, then moved him down in the order and moved Wright up.
And I am sure Cano is facing all future Hall Of Fame pitchers.
The hypocrisy is baffling.
What does it matter who he is facing? He is hitting them.
That is like saying Valdy’s accomplishments this Spring are not worth much since he isnt facing regular top notch major leaguers. What a bunch of bs. He can only hit who he faces. Success or failure ensue.
Holy crap. Who cares? Who cares who he’s faced and how good they are? What is your point? What do you think you are proving?
Has he or has he not been the best player on the team through the tournament? Is the team into the next round? Is he a NY Met?
So a player from the Mets is outplaying every other player on the US squad and has been the hero in two very important games, and you are angry about it?
What is your point?? That this means nothing for the regular season? No crap. Who cares?
Is your point that he wont hit this way all season long? No crap. Who cares.
He’s going to bat around 300, hit around or just north of 20 HRs and knock in close to or above 100 RBIs. He’s going to play good but not stellar defense. That’s what he’s going to do.
Well Said KMaxx….
As I posted in the other thread I will re-post here….
Isn’t is kind of Sad that all the joy of this spring seems to be coming from David Wright winning something for a team that is NOT the Mets and not the METS themselves?
And I wonder what will be the result when he comes back and can not do what he did for Team USA because THIS team isn’t even as good as Team Brazil?
Team Brazil? You give the Mets too much credit. More like Team Rwanda.
Well I am a Met fan and have to show SOME kindness from time to time….LOL
Maniac is your son still going to create that shoutbox for you?
Yes, definitely 100% happening. Just hampered with extra work and piling on the OT. Things will settle down soon and then it’s on.
Of course Wright can’t replicate his WBC pace during the regular season. LOL, if he did that, he’d have the single biggest season in MLB history! If you extrapolate his numbers to a full season, no one has ever hit like that — not Babe Ruth, not Ted Williams, not Musial.
What I expect from Wright in 2013 are numbers similar to 2012. If he does that, I think most Mets fans have to be happy. The only ones who won’t be are those who expect him to walk on water and come through in the crunch almost every single time — even though he does it more often than most.
And thanks to SaltyGary for stepping up. I didn’t want to take the risk of a self-ban, but I was going to do it as a service to the MMO community in the hopes the commentary would be a lot less inflammatory, insulting and more fair and objective without Alex posting here. I was going to wait till the last minute — right up to game time — to see if someone volunteered first.
I didn’t want to take the risk of a self-ban, but I was going to do it as a service to the MMO community in the hopes the commentary would be a lot less inflammatory, insulting and more fair and objective without Alex posting here. I was going to wait till the last minute — right up to game time — to see if someone volunteered first.”
Please, you are full of it… If you really wanted that you would’ve done and move on. if it’s a fair bet and a guy i DON’T like is offering a week ban, you damn right i’ll step up… If you want, if team USA and team DR end up playing again, we can do a 2 week ban????? put your money where your mouth is if you like…
You are full of it, Alex. I was fully willing to do this as a service to the MMO community but now that SaltyGary has so gallantly stepped up, there is no need to.
It definitely is a fair bet. But why should I suffer a 1-week ban if someone else is willing to take the risk, lol.
I’ll tell you what .. if the two teams play again in the WBC finals, I’ll take that bet if no one else will. Make it a 1-week ban. And that means if the DR loses tonight and then loses in the final, you will have to ban yourself for 2 weeks! And the second ban would have to occur right AFTER the first ban ends too. Not simultaneous to the first one. So you couldn’t post till March 29th. And no alternate aliases can be used.
Hey Gary…You can buy my vote for re-entry at the next Core Meeting if your willing to trade places with this guy….LOL
So, Alex, do we have a bet for the finals, should both teams make it? With any ban you get running consecutively (not simultaneously) with any ban you may get as a result of tonight’s game?
So basically when he gets back your saying Captain America goes away and we are back to playing Steve Rodgers…..
And now that he has been hyped to death and can’t play up to that Hype we will have to hear about how disappointing he was when he came back, Shouldn’t have gone and how he isn’t worth the 20Mil per year he is due next year and we should trade him away for more kids 4 years away from now right?
No … basically when he gets back he’ll stop being Captain America and he will return to his usual life as an all-star caliber elite major league player.
And why do we need to hear how “disappointing” he is when he comes back if he plays up to his career norms? That won’t be disappointing to me … nor should it be for any fair-minded objective Mets fan. I mean if the Wright haters want to whine unreasonably like that, let them. I ignore most of what they say anyway.
“And why do we need to hear how “disappointing” he is when he comes back if he plays up to his career norms? “
I don’t know…you tell me it seems to be all the guys you agree with who tend to push out All Stars who play up to thier career norms using the MONEY as the justification for dumping him….Not me and the guys who agree with me….
Only thing they have argued is that if Trading off talent was the smart thing to do, Wright and reyes should have been traded as well to show COMMITMENT to the plan that you think we are operating under….
If they got some kids for Reyes maybe more Reyes fans accept the loss….
If they trade Wright for Kids maybe they at least see them sticking to this PLAN we keep hearing about….
And whats even more confusing is how most of the guys who are now happy we signed Wright are the same ones who said before the signing that they wouldn’t give him and he should not get more than a 4 or 5 year deal….
Some even suggested he could NOT get an 8 year deal….
I and JoeD was not one of them!
Tell you what? If there is no reason to be disappointed if he approximates career norms, then there is nothing to tell.
And in terms of “all the guys” I agree with, who specifically are you talking about?
And what does money have to do with this? Wright is signed for a reasonable — and some say under market — amount right now. Why should money be a factor?
And who are these “All Stars” you are talking about who were pushed out? Be specific. Not vague.
Not me and the guys who agree with me
Huh? Isn’t it the guys you agree with who expect Wright to be superman everyday and walk on water? Not the guys I agree with.
Only thing they have argued is that if Trading off talent was the smart thing to do, Wright and reyes should have been traded as well to show COMMITMENT to the plan that you think we are operating under….
Again, exactly who said this? Name names so we have a good reference point.
And whats even more confusing is how most of the guys who are now happy we signed Wright are the same ones who said before the signing that they wouldn’t give him and he should not get more than a 4 or 5 year deal….
I never said such a thing. I can’t argue the opinions of other posters. So if you have a problem with them, take it up with them. Not with me.
I always thought Wright would be offered a long-term deal because (1) production-wise, he’s the best homegrown position player ever produced by the Mets and (2) he also represents the team well with intelligence, integrity, articulate speech, and generosity with his time.
There was no reason to be disappointed when it was carlos Beltran and K-Rod performing up to thier career norms but that didn’t stop you sandy loving moneyballers from playing the MONEY CARD to get rid of them and posting your disappointment with them did it?
As for who said the things I said?
Just about EVERYONE who has had an issue with what Sandy has done the past three offseasons!
How you can trade off all your best talent for kids and NOT trade Reyes then turn around and give Wright a monster contract after selling off a pitcher because it wasn’t worth paying him due to the fact he couldn’t win you a WS in the next three years!
This is why I keep saying you guys are all over the place in what you say you believe because it changes when the number on the Jersey changes and doesn’t fit into any consistent logic or approach OTHER than….DON’T SPEND, PLAY MONEYBALL and even in Wrights case you abandoned that too!
There was no reason to be disappointed when it was carlos Beltran and K-Rod performing up to thier career norms but that didn’t stop you sandy loving moneyballers from playing the MONEY CARD to get rid of them and posting your disappointment with them did it?
1) Don’t lump everyone into the same group
2) Be specific as to who said what … name names so we know who you are talking about and not just making things up
3) Personally I never expressed dissatisfaction with the performance of either Beltran or K-Rod when the performed up to career norms.
4) So, again, I can’t argue the viewpoints I don’t hold nor those of people you won’t even identify. So, again, name names.
Just about EVERYONE who has had an issue with what Sandy has done the past three offseasons!
So, you are saying almost EVERYONE who has an issue with Sandy are also the ones expecting Wright to be superman everyday and walk on water? Again, you shouldn’t lump people all into one group like that — even those you agree with. Joe D doesn’t like Sandy but he doesn’t hold unreasonable expectations and double standard for Wright unlike people like Alex or Bayonee or damaja.
How you can trade off all your best talent for kids and NOT trade Reyes then turn around and give Wright a monster contract after selling off a pitcher because it wasn’t worth paying him due to the fact he couldn’t win you a WS in the next three years!
Could you be more specific when you post? How hard is it to name players names or the names of other fans who post here? As for Reyes, you weren’t paying attention. They had hoped to resign Reyes so that’s the primary reason they didn’t trade him. Other reasons included the fact that (1) he was injured in the early part of July and (2) if they couldn’t sign him they would get back TWO draft picks as long as they offered him arb.
This is why I keep saying you guys are all over the place in what you say you believe because it changes when the number on the Jersey changes and doesn’t fit into any consistent logic or approach OTHER than….DON’T SPEND, PLAY MONEYBALL and even in Wrights case you abandoned that too!
You are talking about dozens of fans here. Even if most of us who support Sandy generally agree on things, why would we agree on everything? LOL. Are you serious? Of course dozens of people are going to have varying opinions! As long as people are consistent with their OWN opinions and don’t have double standards like many of the Sandy-Wright bashers do, then no one should have a problem.
Again, be specific about your posts and stop expecting me to argue the opinions of others.
RE: GROUPING…..You do it so too shall I!
And no please try reading what I said….
I said they would have had LESS problems if we had traded them not that they thought he would be a SUPERSTAR like he has been at WBC….If they thought that they would not say what they do now would they?
What I AM saying is all the people fawning over Wright now DID NOT BELIEVE HE WAS WORTH THE CONTRACT HE GOT EITHER!
Cause they are more concerned about MONEY than having good players!
Nope. You are wrong. I don’t group and make generalizations like that when I reply to a SPECIFIC poster. If I reply to a SPECIFIC poster, I make sure I am point with comments that reflect their views. I am not all over the place like, making generalizations and refusing to name names.
If you reply to me, make sure you are talking about MY views, and not some views of some fans who you refuse to name. Otherwise it is just a waste of time.
And no please try reading what I said….
I did. Please try writing with more clarity and with less confusion. Above all, name names when talking about OTHER people’s views.
I said they would have had LESS problems if we had traded them not that they thought he would be a SUPERSTAR like he has been at WBC….If they thought that they would not say what they do now would they?
So you are saying some of the Sandy supporters wanted to trade Wright? Again (1) that’s not anything I ever said, so why do you want ME to argue the opinions of someone else and (2) who exactly said this? If you name someone whose views I am familiar with, I might venture into arguing their viewpoint. But otherwise, it’s silly.
What I AM saying is all the people fawning over Wright now DID NOT BELIEVE HE WAS WORTH THE CONTRACT HE GOT EITHER!
STOP IT NOW! JUST STOP IT! Stop putting people into one category. Stop generalizing about people’s views. I NEVER said he wasn’t worth the contract he got. In fact I said he was being paid below market value!
And other posters such as TRL can attest to that. And I am one of the people who is “fawning” over his performance. So WTF are you doing asking me about views I never held? LMFAO. d
Clarification — I sometimes will make vague generalizations like you do, but RARELY if ever in response to a specific person. If I do, it’s just a general comment and if someone responds, then you have to figure it applies to that person. (The old “if the shoe fits” adage.) And I never keep asking a specific poster about a view they don’t hold if they don’t hold that view. To do that is inane and illogical.
So you don’t do it….But then again you DO it….
Jeez…
As for trying to change what I said into they wanted Wright traded (which I never said) I suggest you try again only this time try some reading comprehension along with the reading part….
All I said is they would have LESS problems if he was traded because it least it would be a sign that Sandy was STICKING to his plan to replace ALL the ALL STARS with kids as opposed to this piecemeal crap he has done WHICH INCLUDES not trading Reyes for something and just letting him walk for a pick they felt compelled to make moot by trading away a Cy Young Pitcher to get.
No, I NEVER press someone for a clarification of an opinion they don’t hold if they tell me they don’t hold it LOL,. NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Why you keep doing it is puzzling and laughable.
Why should I speak for others? LOL.
As for trying to change what I said into they wanted Wright traded (which I never said) I suggest you try again only this time try some reading comprehension along with the reading part….
My reading comprehension is just fine. I have no issues with other fans here. It’s your writing that’s the problem. When you say “they” but not only don’t specify names, but don’t even say whether it’s the Wright/Sandy bashers or supporters you are talking about, that’s the problem. You need to learn to write with more clarity.
All I said is they would have LESS problems if he was traded because it least it would be a sign that Sandy was STICKING to his plan to replace ALL the ALL STARS with kids as opposed to this piecemeal crap he has done WHICH INCLUDES not trading Reyes for something and just letting him walk for a pick they felt compelled to make moot by trading away a Cy Young Pitcher to get.
LOL, who is “they?” You? Some of the Sandy bashers? Some of the Sandy supporters?
Can you be specific when you write? You are a terrible writer.
One thing for sure, “they” certainly does NOT apply to me as I’ve never advocated trading Wright. Never. So go find someone else to ask their views about opinions they don’t even hold!
“There was no reason to be disappointed when it was carlos Beltran and K-Rod performing up to thier career norms but that didn’t stop you sandy loving moneyballers from playing the MONEY CARD to get rid of them and posting your disappointment with them did it?”
If that was Rodriguez’s career norm, then that was the biggest rip off in sports history.
He was not worth $17.5 million. Deal with it.
“He was not worth $17.5 million. Deal with it.”
Too bad for yo that he was not getting 17.5 mil and NEVER got 17.5 Mil and didn’t have to get it if he stayed here either!
But don’t let facts get in the way right?
If K-Rod had stayed with the Mets in all likelihood he would have gotten that 17.5 million. That’s why they traded him (combined with the fact there was little money in the budget for 2012).
In all Liklihood…..LOL
In all LIkelyhood The guys we got for him will never make the Mets roster again….
In all Liklihood Wheeler will have arm troubles and be a bust for the Mets after that
In All Liklihood all you capt America fans will turn on a dime with Wright 4 years from now when he still gets paid 20 Million and Money becomes more important to you again than some FACE! Because he is OLD and past his prime!
In all Liklihood what you say today will not jive with what you say tomorrow…orNext offseason
And in all Liklihood what is Likely will merely be exposed as HOPE without substance…
As it was when F-Mart was LIKELY to be a Hall of Famer because he had all the tools that make you a top ranked player on BA list of prospects!
actaully, that 17.5 was a stone cold lock. because the mets were not going to extend him, and he was not going to cut his salary for no reason.
1) It doesn’t matter if the guy we got for him never makes the roster. That wasn’t the point of the trade. The point of the trade was to dump his vesting option for 17.5 million.
2) In all likelihood Wheeler will at least be a middle of the rotation starter, and will be more valuable than the ZERO prospects the Mets would have gotten back when Beltran walked at the end of the year.
3) I am not going to change my tune on Wright no matter what happens in the future. And in all likelihood, most of the current Wright supporters won’t either.
4) What I say today will most definitely jive with what I say tomorrow. I am always consistent with what I say. If you don’t think so, give me an EXACT quote that says otherwise.
5) In all likelihood, what is likely will come to fruition and what is “hope without substance” will not.
6) F-Mart never had a particularly impressive season in the high minors. He was always hurt. He was never a top 15 MLB prospect. He never placed higher than 20 on BA’s list of prospects. He didn’t need to be exposed. He was always over-hyped.
Facts:
1) Rodriguez had a vesting option based on game finishes
2) The Players’ Union had already warned the Mets about jipping him out of GF
3) He was well on track to hit his vesting option mark
4) The Mets bullpen over all was weak
5) Rodriguez’s skills have been in decline since he first came to the Mets. He’s lost velocity and his K/BB and WHIP are both moving the wrong way. Even he admitted that this Spring.
6) He was traded to a team that had an established closer, meaning he wasn’t going to hit his GF mark
7) he then renegotiated his deal to make it more team friendly since he had no more leverage
All this leads to:
8) If he had stayed with the Mets, he would have been paid $17.5 million last year.
Now, go ahead and hand wave the documented facts for your speculation. Also feel free to derail the conversation more than you already have.
FACTS:
1) His new team negotiated away the option eve thoug they had ZERO reason to do so since he wasn’t a closer with them….
2) Mets had MORE leverage to get rid of it because they HAD what K-Rod wanted (to be a closer) the Brewers did NOT!
3) The Players Union didn’t say boo about that Option being sold off
4) Bullpen as weak as it was overall was not as weak WITH K-Rod as it has been the Year and a Half since he left!
5) Wrights number have declined from when he first got here too doesn’t seem to be a problem calling him captain America does it?
6) See Number 2 and Number 3!
7) He renegotiated his deal becasuse he didn’t have Closer numbers to get a coser deal after selling off his option because he WAS NOT a closer just a setup man and his stats reflected that….In this day and age of Spreadsheet GMin he would not show up on any list that says he is a good option as a closer now would he?
All of that leads to:
8) your just guessing and calling non facts as fact and which is what you always do whenever you guys flip on logic because it suited you at the time.
1) Yes, I said that. HE renegotiated a mroe team friendly deal AT A LOWER PRICE when he lost his leverage
2) It isn’t that they COULD use him as a closer, they HAD to use him as a closer. Its not leverage when you are contractually obligated to give him what he wants.
3) Because they couldn’t. It was a perfectly legitimate trade.
4) So what? He wasn’t a $17.5 million game changer. He was mediocre at best. Being the best of a bad bunch is not what we should be looking for
5) Yes, other than his OPS+ last year being well above his career average (141 to 135). and 2011 being the only year he had an OPS+ under 120 and only the second time he was under 130 (2009 he had 124). So, ya, other than his production being totally consistent at or near All Star level, total decline. But hey, good job trying to derail this.
6) See the definition of leverage
7) Yes, because the Brewers were not contractually obligated, or motivated due to his declining production, to use him as a closer. The Mets were not in a position of strength like the Brewers.
8) Rodriguez had no reason at all to renegotiate the deal with the Mets. And he was not going to jsutify a $17.5 million deal.
I’m going to ignore the rest of your chicken without a head and running for any door banter and just comment on this….
LEVERAGE!
Leverage means you HAVE something someone else wants! And use that to get them to do what YOU want!
The team he went to had NO LEVERAGE yet got him to sign away the 17.5 mil option….
We HAD what he wanted (to be a closer) so WE had Leverage not K-Rod! And could have used it to get what WE WANTED!
We had OPTIONS…We took one to trade him and to trade him to a team that would NOT give him what he wanted because the COULD NOT….
We could therefore WE had the leverage not K-Rod!
If he had it he would have gotten what he wanted BEFORE the trade happened and denied him what he wished for!
We were just too lazy to use the leverage we had!
2) Mets had MORE leverage to get rid of it because they HAD what K-Rod wanted (to be a closer) the Brewers did NOT!
That is totally FALSE. Mets had ZERO leverage. if no trade is made, then K-Rod either closes or if the Mets try to prevent then, the union files a grievance which the Mets most assuredly lose.
What about “file a grievance” don’t you understand? The union almost always wins those. They won the one they field on behalf of Roger Cedeno under similar circumstances. So the fact the union could file a credible strong grievance meant the Mets had ZERO leverage and had to give K-Rod closing opportunities!
“I’m going to ignore the rest of your chicken without a head and running for any door banter”
You mean the facts that cut away your silly rantings? Ya, it is in your best interest to steer away from those.
What leverage did the Mets have? They were contractually obligated to give him his chance at 55 GF. They had no established closer. Again, it’s not that they COULD give him what he wanted. They HAD to. The Mets had no leverage.
The Brewers had an established closer. Which means they didn’t have to give him what he wanted. If he had all the leverage, why on earth did he resign for less than half what the vesting option would have cost?
“nd to trade him to a team that would NOT give him what he wanted because the COULD NOT….”
Why not? Axford was a rookie. He didn’t have any contract clauses that mandated game finishes. If they thought Rodriguez would have filled the role better, they would have had him close.
Yo Metro the trade WAS made wasn’t it?
So that was our OR ELSE to K-Rod when we went to him and said….
SELL AWAY THE OPTION…..OR ELSE we trade you to someone who won’t let you close games!
Now tell us what leverage Milwalkee had?
What do they say?
Sell off the Option that will never vest OR ELSE don’t sell it off and we keep doing what we are doing anyway?
Really…WHo had something K-Rod wanted to get him to get rid of the option?
What did K-Rod get from them that we couldn’t give him?
What could they give him that we couldn’t?
NOTHING!
Because WE had what he wanted and they didn’t!
K-Rod had no leverage because we could trade him before the 55 games were finished….
We did and LOST whatever leverage….Not K-Rod he NEVER had any!
Because we were the only ones who could give him what he wanted…To be a closer!
What facts Donal?
That crap about him renegotiating a team friendly deal which was long after the option was sold off and he became a Free Agent?
Is that you idea of FACT?
Nosequitor bull meant to confuse the topic and hope it goes so far off track no one will understand to point out that made up ditty?
“The Brewers had an established closer. Which means they didn’t have to give him what he wanted.”
Which also means they didn’t have to buy out the Option either doesn’t it?
Which also means K-rod had NOTHING to gain by selling it off doesn’t it?
So they had no Leverage….
WE DID!
We could give him a reason to sell off the option that Milwalkee couldn’t and they STILL got him to do it anyway!
That means so could we!
If we bothered to try!
Now tell us what leverage Milwalkee had?
What do they say?
They simply say you’re not closing. And the union can’t do anything about it.
What did K-Rod get from them that we couldn’t give him?
What could they give him that we couldn’t?
He already had what he wanted from the Mets, so no need to negotiate.
He didn’t have what he wanted from the “Brewers. So that’s why he negotiated.
Which also means they didn’t have to buy out the Option either doesn’t it?
Which also means K-rod had NOTHING to gain by selling it off doesn’t it?
They didn’t have to. But since they had leverage, they could do so at a reasonable price. So that’s what they did. And K-Rod had closing opportunities to gain. That’s why he sold it off.
When he was with the Mets, K-Rod already had closing opportunities which the Mets couldn’t withhold. So the Mets had NO leverage.
The Brewers always had the right to withhold those opportunities so they had the leverage once K-Rod was traded.
And here’s something else you’re forgetting — At that time, K-Rod thought he had a strict no-trade list in place with the Mets. He did NOT know his agent forgot to submit it to the Mets. So he continued to believe he had ALL THE LEVERAGE WITH THE METS and would not have bent. The Mets couldn’t tell him that list was never submitted because they then feared Boras would raise a stink which might limit their trade options further if they couldn’t work out a solution with K-Rod.
WHy would they even be talking to him at all?
Why would they have to say what he already knew?
Why would he even bother to sell off the option and not just KEEP IT in case thier closer got hurt?
Cause then the UNION could file the greviance against them as quickly as they could have against us!
SO K-Rod had NO INCENTIVE to sell off the option after he left…He couldn’t get from them what he wanted!
WHy would they even be talking to him at all?
Because it’s to their advantage to be able to use K-Rod the way they wanted
1) in case their regular closer got hurt or was over-extended
2) to make K-Rod happier.just knowing he might get the chance later in the year to close
Why would they have to say what he already knew?
LOL, they didn’t have to say it. He already knew they had that leverage. So that’s why he negotiated with them. You asked “what do they say” so I just told you, in case you couldn’t figure it out for yourself.
Why would he even bother to sell off the option and not just KEEP IT in case thier closer got hurt?
Because he knew if their closer never got hurt (which ended up to be the case) then selling it off was the ONLY way he would even get a chance to close with the Brewers.
Cause then the UNION could file the greviance against them as quickly as they could have against us!
Again, the chances of Axford getting hurt were small. His chance to get some closing opportunities was better if he negotiates an agreement with the Brewers,
SO K-Rod had NO INCENTIVE to sell off the option after he left…He couldn’t get from them what he wanted!
Yes, he did. He could get the opportunity to close. Something the Brewers wouldn’t give him otherwise.
Is this even a discussion? KRod WAS going to get the option of $17M because he WAS going to finish 55 games for the Mets (he was on pace to clear 60). That is why he had to be dumped.
People complain about the year FF had at $6M, KRod has a worse year in Milwaukee.
And before you go spouting on how Milwaukee faced the option, they brought in KRod know he was NOT going to close, hence not finish games.
You can’t say he WAS going to get what he never got!
Thats kind of like saying we WERE going to get hit by an asteroid but we didn’t…
You can’t state an afirmative result when the end result was a negative….
We had what K-Rod wanted, to be a closer…You tell him you want to stay a closer then sell off the option and if not we trade you to someone else who can’t let you close games….
He says ok, he never gets 17.5 Million and he closes out the rest of the season for the Mets and becomes a FA which is what Danal is alluding to when he says he renegotiated to a team friendly deal that has nothing to do with selling the option off that ANY TEAM could have done if they had what K-Rod wanted because even a team that DID NOT have that kind of leverage managed to get him to give it up!
We had what K-Rod wanted, to be a closer…You tell him you want to stay a closer then sell off the option and if not we trade you to someone else who can’t let you close games….
And then he says, go ahead. Then what? Fact is, the Mets had the power to give him closing opportunities but they did NOT have the power to withhold them. Or the union files a grievance.
The Mets were lucky to find the Brewers. They couldn’t have traded him to a club that didn’t have a closer because then that club would have had to let K-Rod close as well which means that awful 17.5 option vests. So the clubs the Mets could trade K-Rod to was also limited. K-Rod knew that. He was the one with the leverage. Not the Mets.
Who paid K-Rod $17.5 million? Nobody did, that’s who. Now you’re using an option that never vested as proof of money paid? It never ends.
EXACTLY!
What was LIKELY and in all LIKLIHOOD never came to pass which says it wasn’t very likely now was it?
of course the Mets did not pay him 17.5. they traded him to avoid doing so.
at which time, the option became about 17mill less valuable, so they got what they could to free up at least the chance of a few save ops (or in case the closer went down).
“get a load of this…A closer walks into the Dugout and says I want to get rid of the Option to stay a closer….PSYCHE! Funny huh? Isn’t that a riot Terry?”
Yeah thats what happened….
Let me get this straight — Are you saying K-Rod didn’t say to Terry Collins right after a game that he didn’t want to get rid of the option????
And if you can’t PROVE something that a negative you can’t use it as the crux of an argument either…
And if you refuse to PROVE something that you say did happen, you can’t use it as your argument.
You need to ban yourself permanently — bet or no bet
The option would have vested with the Mets. To repeatedly deny this is just trolling.
It never happened, get it through that thick matter between your ears. Both of you. You sound ridiculous every time you mention it. Nobody paid K-Rod $17.5 million and nobody was ever going to pay him $17.5 million. Those are the facts. Stop posting fantasy.
What needs to get through a thick skull is the fact that the 17.5 million option was on course for vesting, and that the Mets had no leverage to prevent it from vesting. Furthermore, the Brewers had leverage since they already had a closer. Those are undeniable facts. But I guess for some people they’d rather make up their facts from thin air!
Maniac, do you deny either of these points? Straight yes or no. No trollish rambling. No insults, no verbose nothingness.
Just yes if you deny it, no if you don’t
1) Rodriguez had a vesting option of $17.5 million if he had made enough game finishes
2) Rodriguez was on pace to surpass that number of game finishes before he was traded
There was no option after August so it couldn’t possibly have vested….
You keep nsisting this option was se in stone when FACTS say that option wasn’t even worth the paper it was printed on let alone 17.5 mil!
Amazing how deep ignorance can go. For anyone to proclaim that nobody was going to pay KRod the vesting option shows a complete disconnect from reality. The Mets WERE going to have to pay him because he WAS going to finish 55 games with the Mets. What part of that situation is so difficult to figure out. He finished 34 games for the Mets when he was traded on July 12th (the date of the AS game which is a bit past the half way point of the season). That means he only had to finish 21 games in a little less than half a year.
So, for those who could not grasp it, KRod was going to finish the 55 games for the Mets thus triggering the option. And to pay him that much money when he was worse than FF is asinine.
How was there no option after August Metsie?
Are you insinuating because the Brewers paid an extra $500K to make it go away? Do you believe the Mets would have had the same alternative? Do you really believe that KRod, on pace to vest with the Mets and guarantee himself $17M for 2012 would up the option buyout from $3.5M to $4M and give up all that cash?
Please answer this because there is NO way KRod sacrifices that money.
The option was still in place but the Brewers paid an extra $500K to make it a mutual option; a move KRod would never have agreed with with the Mets since he was going to finish 55 games.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6773904/milwaukee-brewers-negotiate-francisco-rodriguez-deal-remove-games-finished-clause
There was no option after August so it couldn’t possibly have vested….
Huh? If K-Rod had stayed, the option would still have been in place. Seriously SMH.
Ignorance is thinking the Mets couldn’t buy out the option and only Milwalkee could…THATS the ignorance here….
K-Rod sold of the option to Milwalkee after he was traded so by august there was no more option….
We could have too because we had LEVERAGE on K-Rod because he wanted to stay a closer!
He wanted to be a closer MORE than he wanted a 17.5 mil option….Said so before and AFTER the trade!
You guys refuse to see it because you know Sandy acted rashly and didn’t use the leverage to remove the option just made the trade and got NOTHING but removing the player….
for SQUAT mind you…We paid the majority of his remaining salary!
We could have too because we had LEVERAGE on K-Rod because he wanted to stay a closer!
See that’s your problem, Metsie. You say that but it just isn’t true. The Mets had no leverage because they had to use K-Rod as a closer. They couldn’t withhold that from him OR THE UNION WOULD FILE A GRIEVANCE.
And the trade market was limited because no team without a closer at least as good as K-Rod would have touched him with a ten-foot pole. The Mets were lucky they found the Brewers.
Your problem is you keep saying they HAD TO DO SOMETHING THEY DID NOT DO!
Did they HAVE to use K-Rod as a closer that year? OF COURSE NOT because they DID NOT!
They COULD Trade him!
THE TRADE to a team where he could not close IS THE LEVERAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We didn’t have to use him as a closer we could ALWAYS trade him!
If he didn’t want to be traded to a team that would NOT use him as a closer he would have sold the option away to us!
Because WE DID NOT have to use him as a closer WE HAD OPTIONS he did NOT!
WE HAD LEVERAGE!
Even MORE than Milwalkee had because they couldn’t give him what he wanted we could!
They COULD Trade him!
LOL, and that’s what they did to get out of the option!!!!!
But you’re suggesting K-Rod would have negotiated with the Mets. Why would he when (1) he knew his vesting option limited the Mets trading partners and (2) he thought that he had a no-trade list, which gave him the leverage. So why would he negotiate?
Because WE DID NOT have to use him as a closer WE HAD OPTIONS he did NOT!
These were the options: (1) let him close and the option vests or (2) trade him, which is what they did!
WE HAD LEVERAGE!
False! THE METS HAD ZERO LEVERAGE!
So why would he negotiate?
TO STAY A CLOSER!
Clear now?
Could brewers offer that? NOPE Yet they got him to sell off the option didn’t they?
That means we could have too!
WE HAD LEVERAGE! WE HAD A CLOSER ROLE HE COULD BE!
But he thought his no-trade list had been submitted to the Mets so he had no fear of being traded, especially with that vesting option in his contract.
So, again, no reason for him to negotiate.
Clear now?
METS HAD ZERO LEVERAGE. ZILCH. NONE.
Unfortunatly for you HE ASKED THEM TO before the trade….
His Agent was fired for playing games
and this is at the same time he THOUGHT he had a list submitted…
But don’t let facts get in your way there!
Unfortunately for YOU, Boras made no such request of the Mets.
LOL, K-Rod just made an offhanded remark to TC coming into the dugout. It was up to his agent to call Sandy and make that request. THEY NEVER DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, but no formal request was ever made.
It was his PAST agent who screwed up. Boras had already become K-Rod’s agent at the time of the trade.
But don’t let the facts get in the way of your fantasy!
No his original agent made it….
Then got fired because he played games when K-Rod just wanted it gone!
Boras never even had a chance to get up to speed on the situation before he was traded…
Made what? The request? Nope. The first agent never made that request.
Nor did K-Rod’s current agent at the time — Boras.
K-Rod could have told Boras at any time to work out a deal with the Mets. He never did.
NO REQUEST WAS EVER MADE TO SANDY!
You just can’t make things up as you go along because it suits you lol.
“The first agent never made that request”
Which is why he got fired!
And Boras never got a chance to make it as K-Rod was traded before Boras could even pick up a phone…
All you have proved is K-Rodf wanted it GONE and gone BEFORE he got traded!
Which means I WON this battle….
Night night all other reply from you will be ignored because DR won and your supposed to be banned for week!
Nope. K-Rod never asked either his first agent OR Boras to call Sandy.
And Boras was K-Rod’s agent at the time of the trade. That is a FACT.
You haven’t proved a thing. Nada.
I won this. You lost long ago.
And, LOL, thanks for proving again just how challenged you are when it comes to reading.
I told Alex I would make the bet with him for the finals! LOL. The proof is right on this page. Read again. Not only that, but he refused to give me an answer on my proposed bet.
You are wrong again!
So you have no proof as I asked you to provide…
which means u made it all up!
Nitey Nite?
See you in a week after your self imposed ban is over….
USA lost to DR in case you hadn’t heard.
LMAO. How does one prove a negative?
Prove to everyone that K-Rod asked either of his agents to call Sandy. Where’s YOUR proof?
Boras doesn’t care why a player fires his agent and hires him. All he cares about is the $$MONEY$$.
And I know you’re ignorant about all this because you’re just making up things left and right now!
Well you KNOW K-Rod wanted to get rid of the option….you admitted that…
Do you honestly believe he hired a new agent and didn’t tell him WHY he fired the last one and what he wanted him to do?
Just Picked up the phone and said “Hey Scott your hired now I want you to,, oh nevermind just tell me where to send the checks”?
Please you stated he NEVER did something he DID do with one agent and fired him for not meeting his request!
And you think he never told his new agent what he wanted….
Just rediculous until you can show proof that Boras was NOT told to get rid of it or until you can prove K-Rod changed his mind from one agent to the other he ASKED his AGENT AT THE TIME to get rid of it….
Fired one for not doing it and then hired another one which you are trying to say he never told him WHY…
Just rediculous!
Your can’t prove what you said if what you said was a negative and you can’t prove it then don’t say it as the CRUX your entire point rides on!
BTW it would bea easy to prove…Just find a quote from Boras saying K-Rod changed his mind or never told him to get rid of the option….
Then you could prove this NEGATIVE your whole argument relies on but simply isn’t true!
And LOL at your reading comprehension problems. Again. My bet with Alex (which he never formally accepted), is for the “finals.”
Should I go look that up for you in the dictionary, Metsie?
Alex didn’t have to accept it personally because his offer was to ANYONE and ALL who wanted to make the bet!
”If anybody that wants to have a friendly wager, let me know, if USA wins, i ban myself for a whole week, if DR Wins, same goes to you… anybody up to the challenge let me know”
You said you were up for it which is all it took….
Now keep your word!
Well you KNOW K-Rod wanted to get rid of the option….you admitted that…
Nope. Not really. He only made an offhanded comment to TC. Do you know what “offhanded” means? It means he wasn’t very serious about it. Which is why he NEVER asked his agent to contact Sandy about it. LOL, you don’t negotiate through the manager.
Do you honestly believe he hired a new agent and didn’t tell him WHY he fired the last one and what he wanted him to do?
Huh? Who said he never told Boras why he fired he previous agent? He likely did. But what does that have to do with anything. The fact is, he never asked his first agent to contact Sandy.
Please you stated he NEVER did something he DID do with one agent and fired him for not meeting his request!
Please. You just made that up. PROVE it.
LOL, a negative can’t be proved. You are the one claiming something happened so it’s up to you to prove it. If you can’t, just concede you lost and bow out gracefully.
Since you can’t prove it, you LOST.
“get a load of this…A closer walks into the Dugout and says I want to get rid of the Option to stay a closer….PSYCHE! Funny huh? Isn’t that a riot Terry?”
Yeah thats what happened….
And if you can’t PROVE something that a negative you can’t use it as the crux of an argument either…
Now go ban yourself and keep your word.
Alex didn’t have to accept it personally because his offer was to ANYONE and ALL who wanted to make the bet!
LOL, I never accepted Alex’s bet. In fact I specifically told him I wasn’t accepting it because SaltyGary did. Then I made my own proposal be he never responded.
And, yes, it is common practice for someone to formally accept or reject a betting proposal made to them. Especially when the specifics of the bet have to be accepted.
What’s hysterical is how desperate you seem to get rid of me, no doubt because you have gotten slaughtered in this thread, not just by me but by others as well,
You need to make a better effort to read more carefully (and write as well!).
“get a load of this…A closer walks into the Dugout and says I want to get rid of the Option to stay a closer….PSYCHE! Funny huh? Isn’t that a riot Terry?”
Yeah thats what happened….
Let me get this straight — Are you saying K-Rod didn’t say to Terry Collins right after a game that he wanted to get rid of the option????
And if can’t PROVE something that a negative you can’t use it as the crux of an argument either…
And if you refuse to PROVE something that you say did happen, you can’t use it as your argument.
You need to ban yourself permanently — bet or no bet
Trust me…Im not the ONLY one anxious to see you go….
Most people are tired of getting 100 Sub emails 50% are from you making posts playing your same last man standing game your trying to play here….
I’m done with you…You can’t prove the point your entire argument hangs on….
The Battle is over….You have been defeated…GOODNITE!
I will not help you fill up everyone’s mailbox with you crap any further tonite!
Hi Metro,
How’s things been?
To me, it doesn’t really matter about the agent or the vetting option – what does matter is that we haven’t had anybody come close to KRod as a closer since. It’s become so bad that I’d even have one of our scouts sit next to the one from Texas who was observing Joba Chamberlain!
Because the Brewers didnt use him to close.
Come on….at least be somewhat rational in your debate and stop showing such bias that you are oblivious to the facts.
Ok FACT ATTACK….
Could they have used him to close if they wanted to?
Did the option prohibit them from using him as a closer?
NO!
And Why?
Because there was no option he sold it off to them HOPING he might get to close if thier closer got hurt…..
Even slimmer chance than if he had sold it off to us and KNEW he WOULD close because he was the only closer we had if we kept him!
WE HAD THE LEVERAGE to make that Option go away and FAR MORE than Milwalkee had to get rid of the option they got rid of….
Andif you refuse to see that ACTUAL FACT (the option disappeared) then there is no point staing the options was a foregone conclusion and the vesting was INEVITABLE when it didn’t…it was gone long before he would have gotten his 55th game finish!
WE HAD THE LEVERAGE to make that Option go away and FAR MORE than Milwalkee had to get rid of the option they got rid of….
SMH. That’s totally FALSE. 1000% FALSE.
The FACT is — the Mets had ZERO ability to withhold closing opportunities from K-Rod or the union could file a grievance.
Another FACT is — the trade market was limited for K-Rod because no team who didn’t have a closer at least as good as K-Rod would have taken him since they couldn’t then legitimately withhold closing opportunities and the option might vest. So Sandy was lucky to find the Brewers.
K-Rod had all the leverage before the trade. The Mets had NONE.
“the Mets had ZERO ability to withhold closing opportunities from K-Rod or the union could file a grievance”
Yet thats exactly what happened isn’t it? Without a peep from the MLBPA!
Amazing how ZERO ABILITY was still accomplished by the Mets!
And Amazing how you think we could not buy out the option the way Milwalkee did….
All we had to do was say BEFORE the trade if you want to stay a closer then sell off the option…If not we TRADE YOU so the option is worthless anyway!
And no one can say peep to us!
And what is K-Rod’s options then?
Sell the option away to US or NOT BE A CLOSER!
Yet thats exactly what happened isn’t it? Without a peep from the MLBPA!
Huh? Why would the union say anything if the CBA wasn’t being violated? Do you know it’s against the CBA to prevent a player from having his option vest due to non-performance or non-health reasons?
Amazing how ZERO ABILITY was still accomplished by the Mets!
Huh? What do you mean by that? If you mean the Mets withheld closing opportunities from K-Rod, no they did not.
All we had to do was say BEFORE the trade if you want to stay a closer then sell off the option…If not we TRADE YOU so the option is worthless anyway!
And no one can say peep to us!
But (1) K-Rod knew the market would be limited for the Mets due to the vesting option and (2) he thought that the Mets options were further limited by the no-trade list his agent was supposed to have submitted to the Mets. So he felt he had ALL the leverage and so why would he negotiate?
Sell the option away to US or NOT BE A CLOSER!
Again, he already had closing opportunities with the Mets. And he thought there was a no-trade list that would limit the Mets trade options, along with that vesting option. So why would he bend and give the Mets a favorable break? Why?
Walls have a higher IQ…..
Did he close any games for the METS after the trade?
NOPE!
Then they denied him closing opportunities didn’t they?
Did the Union get on them about that?
NOPE!
Did Milwakee HAVE to pay him 17.5 Million if he finished 55 games?
NOPE!
Now answer these two questions and show proof to verify your answer…
Could the mets BUYOUT the OPTION the same way Milwalkee did?
If they did that would the Union be able to say anything or complain if he didn’t get closing starts?
Would he get 17.5 Million if they bought it out and he finished 55 games?
Answer that and we will start to have a decent conversation.
But your entire premise seems to revolve around this fantasy that Milwakee could buy out the option and we were prohibited from doing the same….
Only if THAT were true would we be forced to pay him 17.5 mil if he finished 55 games….
Too bad for you it isn’t….
We had just as much chance (and BETTER because we had LEVERAGE) to get him to sell the option away to US as anything Milwalkee could offer him….
And if we buy the option away he could finish 65 games and STILL never get a sniff of 17.5 mil!
And the Union wouldn’t be able to say jack about it!
A pinhead certainly has a higher IQ!
Did he close any games for the METS after the trade?
How could he? LOL. He wasn’t with them anymore!
Then they denied him closing opportunities didn’t they?
No, LOL. He wasn’t there anymore to be the recipient of closing opportunities.
Did the Union get on them about that?
Why would they? They didn’t deny him anything when he was a Met.
Did Milwakee HAVE to pay him 17.5 Million if he finished 55 games?
Absolutely — unless they negotiated the option away.
Could the mets BUYOUT the OPTION the same way Milwalkee did? … If they did that would the Union be able to say anything or complain if he didn’t get closing starts?
No not the SAME way. I gave you proof already why. So your second question is moot since it would never have happened the SAME way.
But your entire premise seems to revolve around this fantasy that Milwakee could buy out the option and we were prohibited from doing the same….
You need to read more carefully. I never said the Mets were “prohibited” from negotiating a buyout,. The problem was ALWAYS that they had no leverage and so K-Rod and Boras would have bled them to death.,
Only if THAT were true would we be forced to pay him 17.5 mil if he finished 55 games….
. proof is that the Mets had zero leverage, and I gave you the reasons why.
It’s either have the option vest or make a COSTLY agreement to buy out the option.
And if we buy the option away he could finish 65 games and STILL never get a sniff of 17.5 mil!
And the Union wouldn’t be able to say jack about it!
Again you seem to be missing critical points being made here. Since the Mets had NO leverage, the chances of working out a reasonable deal with Boras were pretty slim.
They would have had to pay through the teeth to buy out that option.
And you should read more carefully he ASKED them to buy it out before the trade!
Because he didn’t want to be kept out of games and was willing to become a FA at the end of the year as a starter!
He didn’t care about that 17.5m at all!
He cared about staying a closer….
He didn’t get it and I wonder why? Who FORCED him to not be a closer?
The team withthe leverage….US!
You should read more carefully. His agent made no such formal request. Only his agent can make that formal request.
K-Rod just made an offhanded remark to TC coming into the dugout — LOL, it wasn’t even to Sandy. It was to his manager!
There is no chance in hell he would have given the Mets a break when he felt he had ALL the leverage.
The Mets had ZERO leverage. NONE.
And who tells the agent what to do?
the PLAYER!
He told him to get rid of it and didn’t get it done and got fired for it!
LOL, sure but Boras is not a mind reader. K-Rod never told Boras to call Sandy to try to work out a deal.
And the previous agent had already been fired and Boras hired in his place at the time K-Rod made that comment to TC.
What the previous agent screwed up was the list he failed to give to the Mets months before that season even started.
Your timing is screwed up.
“K-Rod never told Boras to call Sandy to try to work out a deal”
SHOW YOUR PROOF and don’t reply until you have some!
You think Boras was clueless as to why the other guy got fired?
You might be so ignorant but Boras isn’t dumb he knew WHY he got the job before he got it!
SHOW Y0UR PROOF that K-Rod ever told any of his agents to work out a deal with Sandy. Until you do, you have no argument and you’ve lost.
What Boras did or didn’t know about why K-Rod fired his first agent has nothing to do with anything, because reality is K-Rod never told any of his agents to work out a deal with Sandy.
I’ll be waiting for your proof.
Trust me…Im not the ONLY one anxious to see you go….
LOL, you’re not just anxious. You’re desperate, because you’re losing so bad today — not just to me, but to task and Donal who were also trying to knock some sense into you …, and to TRS in your little skirmish with him below,
And trust me, there are a lot of folk who wold love to see you go to
Most people are tired of getting 100 Sub emails 50% are from you making posts playing your same last man standing game your trying to play here….
You mean just like YOU are doing here now? LOL. Pot calling the kettle black. You need to look in the mirror Metsie. I mostly get into this type of thing with you. But you play these game with almost everyone. And it’s you who is always losing the battle of the facts. You just can’t admit when you are wrong. Which is all the time.
I’m done with you…You can’t prove the point your entire argument hangs on….
lol, promise? You haven’t proved one thing. You have been beaten on this soundly, Just like always. Better luck next time. You will need it.
Once Wilpon came out on record last Nov. saying he’d like to make Wright a Met for life, have him take over the ‘ambassador’ role Seaver had for a good long while, all Met fans should have known it was only a formality about getting that contract worked out. He was pretty much staying unless he demanded some outrageous amount of money.
I still believe that SA’s first preference would have been to trade Wright and keep Dickey.
My preference was to keep both but I understood the necessity of the trade, based on the haul we got back.
I Agree Sandy probably did not want to re-sign Wright to that deal….
What I’m getting at is many of the folks who appear to be his biggest boosters didn’t want to either….
As soon as Wright said (regardless of Wilpons statements) he wanted to be a Met for life it was CLEAR AS DAY it had to be an 8 year deal (7 year deal minimum) or he was not getting what he wanted from us.
Most of Wrights biggest fans said no more than a 6 year deal even more said 4 or 5 year only because he was going to decline by then….
JoeD wrote a piece about it and I seemed to be the only one who agreed with him that is was either an 8 year deal or nothing….
Cause that was the KEY to what Wright wanted and if he had to go get another deal when he was 36 then there was no reason to not just go for the money someplace else.
They gave him what he wanted and I was fine with that all along…
But many of the folks complaining about Alex and the other Wright detractirs did NOT want to give him that deal….
And I fully expect if he DOES decline in the next 5 or 6 years they will all pound thier chest and complain about it with I told you So’s….
And everything they are saying today will be swept under the rug!
Technically in Wright’s best season….2007 – Delgado was pretty bad. But yeah I do agree, Wright has as a whole been better when there are other players on the team. To a certain extent that is common sense…at least in regards to those who use stats like RBI/RUNS as their key metric (not the best metric…but common sense = better players around you give you more opportunities to produce). I just disagree with the extreme version of the sentiment that is expressed by “the core” that Wright really isn’t that good and was only made to look decent b/c so many truly great and better players like – Reyes, Beltran, and Delgado were around him. The only guy that really could be said to be better as a Met than Wright out of those 3 was Beltran…and I think it’s debatable and could go either way.
I also think a lot of Wright’s drop off had to do with Citifield – he was having an odd start to the year in 2009 even before the crazy injuries to the other guys hit. It’s been well documented that he screwed with his swing a lot to foolishly try to “adapt” to Citi. And then last year he had a great year (though modified Citi is still harder to hit in than Shea) despite not much of any help from the rest of the team. But yeah, ideally it would be great for the Mets to add more good players…not just to help Wright though…but also from the notion that more good players = a better team
Joe your countdown clock widget from cdn.countingdownto.com is displaying a admin login box when I come here.
http://i.imgur.com/O5N6Jnd.png
There error only seems to appear when I refresh the page…
I’m getting the same thing when I refresh.
Guy goes into a Doctors office and tells the Doctor “Hey Doc it hurts when I do this…What do you reccomend?”
Doctor says “I reccomend you stop doing that!”
LOL.
Thanks Gary, I just removed it until I figure out what’s causing the problem.
Hi Gary and SRT – The problem has been resolved.
Hi Joe,
I’m really sorry, we did have a problem with the system this morning.
As far as we can tell the problem began just after 11am this morning PST and lasted for just over an hour. It should be fixed now so please let me know if you experience it again.
Unfortunately users who visited your site while the countdown was broken, may have the old, broken version cached in their browser, for these people they may continue to experience the problem until their browser cache is cleared.
Browser cache can be cleared immediately using the browser settings but usually it will clear itself within 24 hours.
Again I’m really sorry about this.
Thanks
Bruce
simple question here. Serious one.
People keep saying DW can only put up big #s when in some monster lineup.
yet last year, he had a huge, vintage 1st half. MVP level. In a lineup that had pretty much noone. Including being “protected” by a guy (Ike) that was making Bay look good. And bay, Duda, torres where all out there too.
so where exactly was all this protection he was hiding behind?
Good point.
Wright was in a dreadful lineup last year. Yet he put up all-star and near-MVP type numbers. Hopefully in the near future he will be able to hit once again in credible strong lineups. It’s up to Sandy and Wilpon to make sure that happens.
Most of Wrights success earlier in the season was due to getting walked more in favor of Pitchng to the struggling Ike Davis.
He hit .351 because he also had a .441 OBP which means they pitched around him and the BA is high because when they didn’t miss it was probably a crushable mistake! He had 50 BB, 47K in the first half only 31 BB, 65K in the second half.
In the second half when Ike Started hitting He hit .258 with a .334 OBP.
And due to the fact Ike was now a threat they decided to pitch to Wright more and forced him to hit it….
It is counter to the protection concept but the lack of consistency shows Wright can be REALLY good with the right guy behind him….But he was even better with the right guy IN FRONT of him as he was from 2006-2008!
Where do you think Wright hit for 2008 and much of 2007?
He hit 5th not 3rd….2006-2007
It was Beltran Delgado and Wright.
Until 2008….When you had both Reyes and Pagan getting on base at a (rounded) .350 pace where there was no way they would walk him and pitch to Beltran and Delgado….
Hence the 33 HRs…
An achievement he has not repeated since…And the closest he has come was in 2010 when he at least had SOME Beltran, Ike and Bay was still considered a threat despite his actuality…
Which is why I also say the fences were never his problem because they were there in 2010!
Since then they are being MUCH MORE carefull with Wright…..
Good for the BA and OBP but not so good for the HR totals which lets face the truth is really what people are using to show a decline because the BA has been pretty solid throughout.
2011 (the bad back year) being the only exception.
The issue (as I have always said) is some people expect Wright to be a HR hitter that he is NOT! He is not a 40HR guy and probably never will be!
He is right around a 30 HR guy and if you want more than that (as he got in 2008) you have to put him in a Linup that has someone they are even MORE scared of than Wright and give him those pitches to hit over the wall…
For me I’m happy withthe BA and the HRs when they come are just Gravy….
And if he didn’t TRY to hit the ball over the fence as much as he did for awhile there he would have had the HRs people were expecting from him.
And we would not be having this conversation at all!
So you start by saying 2006-2008, then change it to 2006-2007, now when I tell you he hit 3rd more than any other spot in 2007 and had a 1.065 Ops doing it will you change it to 2006?
Oh Please is that the best you got today?
I said his BETTER YEARS were 2006-2008 and noted it was because of WHO WAS IN FRONT OF HIM…..Not as much about who was behind him!
Then showed you who was in front in 2008 to explain WHY he hit more HRs that year than others….
But you keep trying there….One day you might actually catch me in something….
“But he was even better with the right guy IN FRONT of him as he was from 2006-2008!”
“He hit 5th not 3rd….2006-2007 It was Beltran Delgado and Wright.”
I don’t have to catch you in anything, you catch yourself with your selective memory. The last time he was predominantly a 5 hitter was 2006, and in 2007 he hit more and more effectively as a 3. So in other words you theory not only has holes but is missing a bottom.
Ok show us all your data on how many PAs he had as a #3 and #5 hitter in 2007….
Bet we get nothing….
http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/8S6bX
Come on, make it a challenge.
It obviously WAS a challenge for you as you proved your wrong….
Now go take that chart to school tomorrow and ask the Math teacher this equation True or False
66>45+39
If he says that statement is true you win!
Metsie, I know it’s hard for you to admit but you can’t twist your way out of this one. We shall let the readers decide on this one and I am sure as always you will come out on the losing side.
Yep because if we leave it to the math professor you know you are the bottom dog in this hunt….LOL
Metsie, I’m hoping you mis-read that, Because 296 PA’s in 2007 batting 3rd, is more that 173 PA’s in 2007 batting 5th. It’s pretty simple. You can’t just include his batting 4th stats into the batting 5th’s…
Random I know you are in the middle of paying a bet so I understand you may not be able to reply….
When you look at the PAs of how often he batted 3rd compared to how often he hit 4th and 5th it’s no contest!
The only reason he moved from 5th at all was Delgado being hurt and missing time…
But when the season started and for most of it he was not batting 3rd!
197PA 45 Games batting 4th
173PA 39 Games batting 5th
Add them up and it’s a lot more than
296PA 66 Games batting 3rd….
He played nearly two thirds of the season batting NOT 3rd!
So TRS’ attempt and trying to catch me at being wrong about Wright not being regularly bat in the 3rd position is just semantical because My point was never about him batting 5th but him NT being the #3 hitter for most of 2006 and 2007…I did explain what it was about 2008 which was the ACTUAL point I was making….
It’s never about who is batting BEHIND Wright….But more about who Bats BEFORE Wright that is the key to his success!
Hard for anyone to PROTECT Wright when he hits the way he does!
Only guys who we have had who are scarier than Wright with the bat was Beltran and Delgado. And more often than not they batted BEFORE him not After him!
In 2008 we had a 1-2 leadoff combo that got on base nearly 1 in every 4 PA….
Could not pitch around him and load up the bases for Delgado or Beltran that year now could they?
He saw better pitches and hit them over the fence.
In 2007 when he DID hit 3rd pretty much the same thing was true….Reyes .354 OBP, Castillo (only 50 games due to inujury .372 OBP) so the same situation existed in late 2007 and continued into 2008….
Look at Wrights numbers and they all seem to correspond to what happened before him more than who was behind him….Because in his greatest seasons he was usually the PROTECTION not PROTECTED!
Basically…when a pitcher has to get Wright out….more likely than not, he is going to get him out..
if a pitcher has the option of pitching around Wright, Wright’s OBP shoots up and he hits mistake off-speed pitches…
So, WBC numbers mean nothing, but Spring Training numbers mean everything.
Ya, that makes sense.
So if you dont use spring training numbers, why are we supposing that Cowgill has earned a job, or Marlon Byrd?
When did Fantasy Spring Training Baseball come out?
LOL
Which national pastime do you watch? I prefer baseball, how about you?
“why are we supposing that Cowgill has earned a job, or Marlon Byrd?”
I did? Where did I say that? Funny, I don’t remember even speculating on it.
“Which national pastime do you watch? I prefer baseball, how about you?”
You may watch baseball, but you play “guano crazy poster”
But, hey, thanks for trolling.
Hey Alex68 you ready for some of this tonight; http://i.imgur.com/JgR1I7h.png
USA USA USA!
Get ready to be BANNED!
BTW this photo is posted on Metsblog and Mr North Jersey was awesome enough to add some Americana to it.
Oh God, no. Not the C. Dont mind the captain thing but please not the C. It ruins a beautiful looking uniform.
But did you see the design? This aint no orange and blue, it’s the RED WHITE AND BLUE
WHooooooo!
I love watching Alex react to reasonable predictions.
“.300, that’s outrageous. He’s only done it 6 times in his career and if you take away his late season call up and his injured year, its only 6 out of 7. You must be an idiot to think he can do it again.”
“20 home runs? How outlandish. He’s only done that 6 times too (not including 14 all post all start break season one), and only broke 30 twice. You’re crazy to predict that.”
” Don’t you get that he’s sucked every year without Beltran and Delgado and Reyes? Last year he may have hit 306 with 21 HRs but that was only because he was the best player in the league for the first half. You’re a moron to think he might duplicate those numbers which he’s done so many times before including last year.”
Alex, do you not see how ridiculous you are?
And here’s the thing, even if you continue to argue that Cano is a better player, that doesn’t in any way, shape or form have any bearings whatsoever on Wright’s numbers. You get that right?
Man, take off the crap tinted glasses and get a new perspective on the game. Its not so bad out here. Check it out.
If his name was Diego Rivera instead of David Wright then his view would be completely different just as if Omar Minaya was Owen Miller and Sandy Alderson was Santiago Alvarez.
Alex, Bayonne and crew, here’s the most meaningful piece that you should take away from this article:
“Go ahead and savor what David Wright is currently doing in the World Baseball Classic and relish every moment. Be proud of what Wright accomplishes with every mighty swing of his bat. But don’t forget that it’s only March 14, and that the real baseball season begins on April 1. That is when reality will sink in for most of us, but mostly for David Wright as well. He returns to a lineup devoid of the type of talent he surrounds himself with now.
So enjoy the spectacle we have before us while it lasts, and Go Team USA!”
See that? That there is how we all feel. All of us who are cheering on David and singing his praises and LOVING the Captain America name. We are doing exactly this. We are enjoying what he’s doing. We are proud of it. We are relishing the moment.
None of us is so stupid that we don’t understand this isn’t the regular season. None of us is so clueless that we don’t understand the difference between these games and the games that count. We all get the difference in the lineups and protection.
See, we can enjoy and relish and feel pride without losing site of the true task and challenges at hand. The two are not mutually exclusive.
But you guys. Man. I just don’t get it. You are doing none of this. Its like his success and our enjoyment of it is cause in your mind for criticism and hatred. Its literally making you angry.
His success doesn’t take away from what Beltran or Delgado or Reyes accomplished as Mets. You get that, right?
And Alex, you understand that his success doesn’t have anything to do with what Robinson Cano does across town? Right?
Breaking news: DAVID ALLEN WRIGHT out for team USA with a sore back.
oh fckn christ…here we go with this shyt…gimme an effin break D Wright….can you stay healthy for one year please….now we’re gonna have this nagging back injury all year, causing him to have another injury ridden, down year
And kids! That 7 year 138 million contract has not even started yet! But Alderson/Wilpon (and when Alderson talks about it, it certainly sounds like he was most definitely for that contract)
said it was to appease the fans right?
What that 138 million could have gotten for the Mets…AND in addition to that….Kyle Lohse is still out there too
Exactly. That’s what spending money for the sake of spending money does. But Lohse would be ridiculous acquisition. Has nothing to do with anything and would be the same spending for the sake of spending.
When Captain America throws his mighty Wheelchair
all those who gloat over meaningless games won’t be there
He’s got the big buck and reyes still sucks and Sandy is King Lear….
When Captain america throws his mighty wheelchair
Hey Bayonne, tell us, what could $138 million have gotten the Mets? Assuming the same annual values, meaning same pay per year, what is it your contention the Mets could have gotten better than David Wright? Not the David Wright you’ve created in your mind. The David Wright based on his real production over his career including last year.
You have one or two specific players in mind? Enlighten us.
Clown.
The David Wright from 2005-2008 avg almost 6.0 WAR per year
The David Wright from 2009-2012 avg 3.5 WAR per year and consider that in 3 of the past 4 years, he has avg UNDER 3.0
In 2009 – it was 2.9
In 2010 – it was 2.5
In 2011 – it was 1.9
In 2012 – it was 6.7
Sorry Champ, but if David Wright did not have a great relationship with the media and wasnt a spokesman for whatever reason… personality, language barrier, etc
David Wright never makes it 2013 as a Met
color it up, dress it up, call it whatever u want…but from a pure baseball perspective…we have more depth from an organizational standpoint at 3B than we do at SS
if Tejada gets seriously hurt…we have absolutely no one on the current roster or near MLB ready on the minor league level.
We do have Murphy and Flores, Aderlin Rodriguez and had Jefrey Marte at 3B as well…
If we had Murph at 3B, Reyes at SS, Tejada at 2B, Ike at 1B…with Turner as the backup 3B…we have alot more depth with Murph able to play 3B/1B if Ike gets hurt….
basically…we have the resilient 2011 mets all over again….
And what was the BIG difference between 2009-2011 and 2012? The fences. Once they moved them in, Wright’s numbers bounced back to his career norms.
David Wright would still be a Met today even if he didn’t have a great relationship with the press — unless they didn’t change the fences at the end of 2011. Then I can see maybe the Mets and David not coming to an agreement this past winter.
But otherwise, it’s likely he’s still a Met.
It doesn’t matter how much depth at 3B there is right now in the system — because none of it is proven and up to the caliber of a David Wright.
Murph isn’t David Wright. And Reyes wasn’t going to be signed because he was asking for way too much. So there was no way he was coming back as long as Loria existed. Your vision of a “resilient 2011″ is a far-fetched fantasy. There would have been no one to drive in runs.
“The fences. Once they moved them in, Wright’s numbers bounced back to his career norms.”
yeah thats why he hit 29 HRs in 2010 before they moved the fences in and he hasn’t hit more than 21 since they moved them in….
Because he went to his norm after moving the fences in right?
No. That’s why for the first time since they moved into Citi, his BA/OBP/SLG ALL moved back to his career norms and he had the highest OPS since the move to Citi. .
Because he stopped over-swinging and tinkering with his stance and swing constantly to try to get back to his normal HR levels. Which is what royally screwed him up for 3 years. But last year was a return to his career norms.
His career avg before last year was 29 HR…he hit 8 under…but thats a “return to career norms”
LMAO
ok !
Actually, his career average in HRs prior to 2012 is 27 HR (per 162 games). Last year he hit 21 in 156 games. That’s just 6 off his career average for HRs.
But what you are totally missing are Wright’s total numbers:
BA/OBP/SLG
300/380/508. Career
284/364/463 2009-2011
306/391/492 2012
So, yes, 2012 was the first year in Citi that Wright had triple-slash numbers close to his career norms. Because he wasn’t overswinging and tinkering with his stance constantly anymore, which is what messed him up from 2009-2011.
Im sorry…I was talking about pre-citifield DW
2005-2008, DW hit 29 HR
2009-2012 ( and not counting his injury riddled 2011 ), DW has hit 61 HR…an avg of just over 20 per year…
I think 20 HR is the new baseline for DW, not 29
that means from a power perspective he is regressing
and since 2009, what u said about his swing is absolutely true…
from March – June…
every year….
and then magically….the league catches up with him….and then he loses his mojo for the rest of the season…
even when other batters around him are doing well….destroying the whole “dw needs protection theory’
also, DW has become less disciplined and strangely less powerful in time…
DW in 2005 had a 16.3% O-Swing
in 2006, it was 19.2
in 2007, it was 21.2
in 2008, it was 21.9
in 2009, it was 21.5 ( the early half he was still disciplined )
in 2010, it shot up to 30
in 2011, it was 25.5
in 2012, it was 25
O-Swing is a measure of how many pitches a batter is swinging at OUTSIDE the strike zone
the OLD David Wright was MUCH MORE SELECTIVE
he started his career with 16%…than had to swing at almost double the amount of pitches outside the strikezone ( 30% ) to even get close to 30 HR again
the DW of March – June was disciplined, his K-rate was back down, he was very selective, rarely challenged either since most pitchers were pitching AROUND HIM
the DW of July – September was not disciplined, his K-Rate went right back to post – Shea numbers, and coincidentally, pitchers were challenging him more often as Ike Davis behind him posted the highest # of 2nd half HR in the NL
my theory is this….
he can beat up on CB that stays flat in the zone, he’ll make u pay for ur mistake….
DW can no longer handle the 98 mph fastball…can no longer handle hitting off a stud reliever….
and in pressure situations, I think he suffers from anxiety…kinda like Pelfrey after anyone commits an error…u just see him unravel
this is why out of DW’s 21 HR, only 2 came after the 7th inning…and none came in tight/close situations
DW in the 1st inning is care free…
DW in the 9th inning is a nervous wreck
a nice guy, great spokesman, cares about the team, maybe even too much….
but put homeboy in the crunch, in August, facing Kimbrel or Brian Wilson, bases loaded, 2 outs, 9th inning…and i count on David striking out, the way i used to count on Fernando Tatis to hit into a double play back in 2010
Wright’s triple slash:
309/389/533 – 921 Pre-Citi
284/364/463 – 828 2009-2011
306/391/492 – 883 2012
As I said, his numbers bounced back to career norms. His 2012 numbers are closer to his pre-Citi ones than the numbers he put up his first 3 years at Citi. Citi Field is still a pitchers park, even with the fence changes. And Wright has been in weak lineups ever since his move to Citi Field, Factor in all this (and his age too) and Wright is pretty much the same player as he was prior to Citi Field.
As we saw in the WBC, surround Wright with a better lineup and he’ll hit better — as with most players. And before you say players like Beltran can hit without a good lineup, I already showed you what BS that is. As i showed you the other day Wright with Beltran was BETTER than Beltran with Wright. And in 2012 Wright w/o Beltran was BETTER than Beltran without Wright. And Beltran in 2012 hit in a great lineup. Wright did not.
Wright has not had decent protection around him since the move to Citi Field. If that is ever rectified before his prime is up, then you will see his numbers increase even more.
Also, this focus on clutch is ludicrous. All his clutch stats including Close and Late, High Leverage and Clutch show him to be average or above. In the meantime, players like Cano and A-Roid all grade out at average OR BELOW.
Late and Close Career
Wright – .829 OPS
Cano – .811 OPS
High Leverage Career
Wright – 911 OPS
Cano – .752 OPS
Their High Leverage stats are particularly stark, especially considering they are not park adjusted and Cano hits in a toy park in stacked lineups. So don’t talk about Wright in the clutch without putting it in perspective. By any measure, during the regular season, he is above average and is essentially a real Captain America compared to chokers such as Cano.
If the Mets get 2012 production from Wright almost every year of the first 5 years of his new contract, they should feel blessed, considering the park he plays in.
I’ll take that every year. Wright is now 30. Statistically that is a little past a position player’s prime. Considering the park, the weak lineups, and his age, last year he was producing very close to career norms, closer to career norms than any of his 3 previous Citi years, and still at an elite level in baseball.
Again, the protection theory is blown to bits when you consider he slumps right when when the guy that hits directly behind him in the lineup, Ike Davis, does well.
but Derek Jeter to you is a bubble candidate for the HOF
and Omar Minaya had a secret personal relationship with Carlos Beltran based on Beltran being a prospect in 1995.
Using that as a barometer, Omar had a secret personal relationship with every prospect from Latin America, from 1987-1997
a secret to everyone but Metro12
holder of all secrets
No, the protection theory still holds. It’s not just about half a season. And it’s not just about the hitter behind Wright either. It’s about the few hitters behind Wright and the entire strength of the lineup. Moreover, Ike was coming off a putrid first half. So why pitch to Wright in the second half when Ike was stinking it up in the first half? Why throw good pitches to Wright at all, when all you have to face after Ike is Duda? Thole? LOL.
If Biggio is a bubble candidate, then Jeter is a bubble candidate.
And, no, I never said Omar never had a “secret” personal relationship with Beltran but he had an special affinity for him from his scouting background AND the fact Beltran was his first big signing who he pursued hotly.
And, no I don’t know any more Mets secrets than the average fan, but I have a way better and more objective grasp of recent Mets history than you do. Yours is colored and skewed by some weird baggage and chip on your shoulders.
Mets team OPS 2012:
.727 Pre-All Star
.672 Post-All Star
So, yes, the entire lineup was weaker the second half than the first. Even though Ike’s numbers went up. And while Wright’s own decreased numbers played a role in that decline, it’s not enough to account for most of it.
The protection theory is alive and well.
More revealing numbers:
2012 High Leverage
Wright 934 OPS
Cano 851 OPS
So LOL at anyone who had a problem with Wright in the clutch just last year. For any player with a 900+ OPS in high leverage situations in a pitchers park in a weak lineup, Mets fans should kneel down and kiss the ground in gratitude!
One more thing about 0-Swing %. You do know that PITCH f/x disagrees with Baseball Info Solutions considerably, don’t you? …
0-Swing % for Wright according to PITCH f/x:
2007 – 24.9
2008 – 25.2
2009 – 24.2
2010 – 29.1
2011 – 24.8
2012 – 22.7
So …… PITCH f/x actually says Wright’s plate discipline was the best last year since 2007, when data first became available! Given the disparities, I would hesitate to use either system as proof of anything, unless one gives a logical explanation for the differences to satisfactorily explain it. fWAR and bWAR differ, but there is a logical rational explanation for that difference. But why would 2 systems measuring the strike zone differ that much?
But one thing is interesting about the 0-Swing %. No matter which system you use, in 2010, Wright had the worst plate discipline in his career. Which supports the idea he overswung to get to that 29 HR total. And while he hit more HRs, his BA and OBP plummeted. So, as I’ve been saying all along, the park has been a killer for Wright, and he was only able to reach 29 HRs by overswinging and sacrificing BA and OBP.
METRO12 –
Re: Minaya/Beltran, Nope, you didnt use the word affinity, you said “relationship”, several times in fact.
Re: Derek Jeter/ Biggio
Biggio played until age 41, DJ is 38…and even though DJ has almost 1,000 LESS PA, Jeter has 300 MORE hits than Biggio.
Just the fact that you said DJ is a borderline HOF candidate completely erased any credibility you thought you had. Neither Biggio nor DJ are bubble candidates, you clear 3,000 hits, clean, with not a peep about PED’s and you are in. Not 1 candidate in the history of baseball with 3,000 hits has ever had their candidacy questioned ( unless ur name is Pete Rose or Barry Bonds )
But feel free to completely kill your credibility, I have fun watching u drive it further and further into a ditch
No, Wright adapted to Citifield by trying to pull for power more….
With free-agency coming in a few seasons, he knew he would be in the placido polanco pool of hitters if he didnt get his power numbers up.
I know better than to respond but I will say this. Do you honestly think that at the beginning of 2010 Wright started to worry about FA? What he worried about was the newspapers and media saying that his 2009 wasn’t good enough. It happens to a lot of players. Just think about Tex now, he’s not fighting for a contract anymore but has completely changed his swing to adapt to the park and refuses to do anything but pull the ball.
Once again, damaja totally botches numbers and stats. It’s truly laughable …
and even though DJ has almost 1,000 LESS PA, Jeter has 300 MORE hits than Biggio.
LMAO, the difference in their plate appearances is exactly 609. Far far cry from 1000. Seeing how challenged you are when it comes to even reading numbers, let alone using them, I suggest you stay away from them completely.
And Jeter always played in stacked lineups in the AL with the DH and, in later years, in one of the best hitters parks in baseball — prime conditions for a hitter. Biggio was almost just the opposite. Generally weak lineups and weak teams. And Biggio was a better fielder than Jeter.
So, yes, if Biggio is a bubble candidate (and many say he is) then Jeter is one.
As for Omar/Beltran … In this context, relationship=affinity=familiarity.
I’m not saying they were BFF or anything close to it. In fact I explicitly said they were familiar with each other from those scouting days. That in this context means relationship, the full context being the entirety of their experiences with each other and the fact Omar pursed him hotly and he was his first big signing.,
Sorry, but if you believe Omar would have traded Beltran mid-2011 than I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. And even if you were naive enough to believe that, the chances of him making a deal as good as the one Sandy made are pretty small given Omar’;s dismal track record in trades. I know you love Omar and are in love with him, but you are just so biased and blinded by that love that you can’t see straight when it comes to his weaknesses and foibles. Instead you make all sorts of excuses for him and stretch credulity. You have no credibility when it comes to Omar.
BTW, I also believe Omar wouldn’t have traded Dickey, either, because he was probably too attached to him too. Unless of course he was ordered to, but no one has suggested Sandy’s trades were ordered by anyone.
You long ago killed your credibility with your exaggerations, biases, and inability to even accurately read numbers. So I guess it can’t be driven any further into the ditch! But you make a good effort at it everyday!
Is your reading comprehension taking a hit too? …
No, Wright adapted to Citifield by trying to pull for power more
Which is exactly what I have been saying all along, especially in regards to 2010. Show me anything I’ve said that contradicts this. However, as we’ve seen in 2012, all his numbers went back closer to his career norms. Which supports the idea that he returned to his traditional approach at the plate as a result of the new fences — and found success.
Actually damaja, I have to thank you for bringing up 0-swing %. It’s a stat I rarely look at. But if anything supports what I’ve been saying about Wright and the Citi Field fences, it’s those numbers — whether you’re looking at PITCH f/x or Baseball Info Solutions. Because they both show the same trend, with the peak in 0-swing % being in 2010.
So thanks for inadvertently buttressing my side of the argument!
Exactly, TRS, It really stretches credulity — and credibility — for one to say that Wright in 2009-2010 changed his swing and approach at the plate because he had free agency on his mind. It was simply the pressure to produce numbers similar to the ones he put up in the past. The pressure coming from the fans, the media and likely his own teammates and coaches.
Wright was so concerned about free agency that he played for months in 2011 with a broken back in pain … and then at the end of 2012 agreed to a long term contract with the Mets at what many consider to be a below-market rate.
QUICK QUICK – hit the panic button, OMG OMG OMG
……and that contract, HOLY SMOKES……OMG OMG OMG
I KNEW IT I KNEW IT I KNEW IT
DIDN’T I TELL YOU??
It’s like Christmas for some around here right now………
You seem to be the only one panicing here Kay….All Alex did was report the news and all I did was make a joke out of it….
How much do you love that WBC now?
Reality set in on March 14, two weeks earlier than expected.