28
2013
Sandy Alderson Weighs In On Blocking Home Plate and Travis D’Arnaud
An article by 
San Francisco Giants catcher Buster Posey suffers a broken left ankle and torn knee ligaments following a devastating collision at home plate that wiped out his 2011 season.
Updated by Joe D. on 2/28
Interestingly enough, the topic of Travis D’Arnaud blocking the plate came up last night during our conference call with Sandy Alderson. Matthew Artus broached the subject with Sandy and asked him to elaborate on his feelings about catchers blocking the plate and if D’Arnaud’s injury history played a factor in the team’s decision.
“This particular issue has gotten some coverage in recent days,” the Mets GM said. “I think that Mike Matheny with St. Louis was suggesting there should be a rule change about collisions at home plate.”
“I think that you have to be sensible with this, catchers themselves have to be sensible about this. At this point the rule is what it is, and it’s really something we’ve only begun to address publicly over the last couple of days.”
“With the concern that all sports have concerning concussions, putting aside how valuable a catcher can be and whether he can be lost for the season, just general physiological well being is something that has to be taken into account. But as far as d’Arnaud is concerned, we also had to take into account his injury history and his value to us going forward for the future.”
I know some of you would disagree with me, but I’m totally on board with Sandy on this one.
From the standpoint regarding the seriousness of concussions and how much more we know about the longterm effects today, that we didn’t know ten years ago…
The potential for losing a valuable member of your team for perhaps the entire season or longer…
The investment and costs associated with developing a major league catcher….
And in D’Arnaud’s case specifically, he’s already suffered one concussion in his pro career, and we have to take every precaution to safeguard his health and think about his longevity.
That image of Buster Posey still troubles me and besides being a Mets fan, I’m a baseball fan first and I’m a huge Posey fan. We should make sure something like that never happens again.
* * * * * * * *
Amazin Avenue transcribed the entire conference call and I would encourage all of you to check it out. You’ll get a good sense of where we stand as an organization today and what the future might look like, from the general manager’s perspective.
I usually don’t get too much out of these conference calls that I already didn’t know, to be quite honest with you. But this one was very insightful thanks to some great questions and what I felt were some genuinely thoughtful, intuitive, and responsive answers by Sandy.
Great job by Sandy Alderson, Shannon Forde, all those who participated, and Amazin Avenue for giving us a written account that we can all draw from.
Original Post 2/27
Adam Rubin of ESPN recently posted a quote from Terry Collins regarding young catching phenom Travis d’Arnaud. The Mets manager had some very interesting thoughts on how he wants his catcher of the future to play behind the dish.
Here is the comment from Collins.
“I told him, ‘Trav, I know you’re a tough guy. I know it’s baseball. But if you want to play for the next 15 years, the last thing we need is to have you re-injure your knee. Just get in front of that plate and let them have the plate. And if you receive the ball early, get yourself in a good position. But I’m not going to let you stick that left leg out there and have somebody who is just a reckless guy come charging in and have you shorten your career. I’m not going to allow that to happen right now.’
This comment by Collins struck me as odd, but I kind of understand it at the same time.
The 24-year old backstop has a history of knee injuries, and when you think about what happened to Buster Posey back in 2011, you can kind of understand why the Mets might have some reservations with their prized prospect.
Posey was lost for the season with a broken leg while trying to block home plate. D’Aranud was lost for the remainder of the 2012 season after attempting a takeout slide as a runner at second base, and suffered a partially torn posterior cruciate ligament in his left knee.
What are your thoughts on this? Do you want a catcher who is forced to play conservative at home plate, or do you want a gamer who is going to put his body in harms way to make a play? Does the Mets thinking in this situation make sense to you, or do you think they are being overly cautious? Do you agree or disagree with Terry Collins?
About the Author: Dan Valis
I am a staff writer for Mets Merized Online. I am a Mets team analyst with a focus on the minor league system, as well as the major league club. I am a lifelong New Yorker who was born and raised to be a Mets fan. The ups and downs of being a Mets fan is what makes following this team so much fun, but at times so frustrating. You can follow me on Twitter @BgAppleMetsTalk.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 28 | .600 | - |
| Nationals | 34 | 35 | .493 | 7.5 |
| Phillies | 34 | 37 | .479 | 8.5 |
| Mets | 25 | 40 | .385 | 14.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 47 | .319 | 19.5 |
Last updated: 06/18/2013
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Giving up a run here, and a run there, will not add up to the absence of his bat in the lineup if he gets hurt. I think it’s a good idea.
Agreed, Terry Collins gave Travis good advice.
NO catchers should block home plate during spring training…did they tell him to never, ever block home plate again though?
This is a different era of baseball where players are paid much higher salaries and the Mets are protecting their future. Unless the season is on the line, no run is worth losing your starting catcher for an extended period of time – especially one with a bright future like d’Arnaud.
Collins didn’t specify with this comments, but by the way he said it, it appears he means in general.
DePodesta also responded to this question and this wasn’t a spring training thing it was a Mets career thing moving forward to not risk any further injuries. That much was very clear.
Just to add to the discussion.
“He’s the future,” Collins said. “So we’re going to be smart about this. When he gets to the big leagues, things may change, but right now — let’s let him get to the big leagues. The thing is, catchers with his offensive potential, they’re hard to find.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/harper-arnaud-making-splash-met-camp-article-1.1274503?pgno=1
As long as he hits a homerun after allowing a run that way, i’m ok with it.
Well you mean two home runs otherwise he ends up with just a 0.0 WAR and also no Runs Created unless men are on base.
2 run HR, obviously.
There’s no way being on the tail end of a run scoring play outweighs hitting a home run.
Carlton Fisk had a pretty good career using the swipe tag
We haven’t had a catcher that could block the plate in years anyway.
Last one was this guy…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k77jQH7hN9A
That was the most bizarre play I have ever winessed at a postseason game.
It’s a catcher’s natural instinct to block the plate. trying to avoid instinct can be dangerous. It’s like putting your hand out instinctively to break a fall. You could break your hand or not but it’s instinctive. Now what happens when the word goes out in the opposing clubhouse before the game “D’Arnaud won’t block the plate.” Outfielders dive for balls, runners slide in at second to break up the double play and catchers block the plate. It’s called baseball Mr. Collins.
But look at it from a risk/reward scenario, and you can use the Buster Posey example.
How many times did a play come down to the catcher needing to break a play up for them at the plate? I’m betting it was nowhere near the offense they lost from his bat.
I was wondering myself if d’Arnaud’s instinct would overcome him during the moment of a game. Which makes one wonder how wise it is developing good hitting prospects as catchers if the concern is losing a big bat by one being so often subjected to serious potential injury. Is the cause for alarm enough to justify training weaker hitters for that position instead and let their value be more in the form of their ability to field the position, cut down base runners and call a good game (i.e., Buck?).
Also, wouldn’t the quick tag into one running so hard (not having to ease up on a slide like when going into a bag to avoid over-running it) also set up one to a wrist injury as well?
Another factor to consider is that not blocking the plate goes beyond just simply allowing a runner to score who might not have done so otherwise – it also extends the inning by giving the opposing team an extra out to work with which could lead to even more runs being scored. Also, would this be telegraphing a message to opposing teams to take more chances due to the advantage of an extra split-second on potentially close plays or being able to slide further away from the catcher? Again, not talking about a play in which the catcher has time for a quick tag waiting for the runner coming in – but on those bang-bang plays.
So while I understand the Mets concern, one must also consider the consequences about giving up those extra runs. But then, what is my opinion wouldn’t since I’ve been told I know so little about the game.
The answer…
trade Travis and promote Juan Centeno
Joey D
You understand it and I understand your analysis (very well written I might add) but will a certain Mr. Terry Collins read it where it will do the most good?
Hi Lou,
Hey, thanks so much for the nice words about the questions I raised and how I expressed them But I’m sure if TC happens to read MMO, he will ignore it and heed the advice of one who says I don’t know what I’m talking about.
However, your comment made me wonder if this is Terry Collins’ idea or is he following instructions handed down to him by the front office? As you so correctly pointed out, others dive for balls, slide hard into second and even barrel into home plate – should they avoid those things too because of their bats? BTW – didn’t we loose Ike Davis for an entire season because he went after a pop up because he wasn’t called off? Same with David for two months? Guess infielders shouldn’t go after balls not hit directly their way as well.
And since Travis tore up his knee trying to break up a double play, should he then also abide by the rules in Japanese baseball where it is considered un-sportsmanlike to continue going into a fielder once called out on the base paths.
Injuries are part of the game and nobody wants to see a player go on the DL but other than knowing the safest way to slide or field.there is no way to avoid that unless the rules are changed to reflect little league.
And didn’t the Yankees lose Mariano Rivera for the entire last season because he was going through drills in the outfield and tore up a knee catching a ball. You don’t have to even be in a game. I remember Sammy Sosa broke a rib due to a sneeze. (I think I heard that sneez all the way from Chi town). Of course that may have been due to ‘roid use. Folks don’t realize how instincts keep us safe. Not related to baseball but in a way it is. In Vietnam soldiers were sent for a 12 month tour. The most dangerous time was the first month when they were new to combat and didn’t learn fast enough and the 12th month when they refused to follow their instincts because all they wanted to do was play it safe to get on that “freedom bird.” Many guys were killed just days before their tours ended because they didn’t follow their instincts. Final point: tell me one Hall of Famer who plahyed it safe?
Isn’t MLB talking about stopping catchers from doing this anyway? I could have sworn I heard there was a rule being discussed?
Yes you are correct. They don’t want another Posey incident.
Right – so if MLB is changing the rule at some point why not have d’Arnaud get used to that?
Didn’t d’Arnaud have a concussion in 2011 also?
I can understand a rule change simply for the protection of catchers on such plays but if the rule applies to catchers, how is it enforced? If a runner is out because the catcher positioned himself in a manner that goes against it, would the runner then be called safe even if the tag beat him?
But even more for safety there should also be in conjunction with that rule another one as well that prevents runners from going into catchers the way it happened with Posey or how Rose went into Fosse who was never the same again? In this case, I would think it should be a serious penalty like a multi-game suspension in which though the financial loss would be chicken feed for the player, the loss of him by the team wouldn’t.
But then, does anybody remember page one from the 1967 Mets yearbook?
The game has changed so much. It was different 25 years ago when catchers were making $200K or so. Now some of these kids make millions just in draft signing bonuses, then the years of investing in their development. When someone like a Posey, Mauer or D’Arnaud comes along, you have to make some attempt to protect them. Especially in some cases where the catcher is the star of the team and makes 25% of the teams annual payroll. I don’t have a problem with protecting catchers and at 67 years old I’m about as old school as you can get.
TC can tell D’Arnaud not to block the plate because of a possible injury but in the course of playing the game and if there is going to be a close play at home I doubt that D,Arnaud is thinking what TC told him and give up his ground for fear of being bowled over and injured.Natural instinct takes over and you play that position as you were taught and if it means blocking the plate I think he would.
when you try to control the position the door is open for injury, teaching how to play the position is the way to go. TC thinking look what we gave up for this guy I cant get him hurt, not baseball, can’t keep looking over your shoulder for something to happen…teach, teach,
Hi pain,
Though I wasn’t thinking of it in terms of d’Arnaud not being taught the proper way to block te plate, I also raised the question of how his being positioned differenty opens him up to other types of serious injury instead. Remember Cliff Floyd at first with Todd Hundley? Cliff had to reach into the basepath for a throw and Todd running at full speed ran right into that extended arm resulting in a bad fracture of his wrist.
Couldn’t Travis positioning himself alongside the plate and reaching across to tag the runner – rather than being over the plate and having his arm positioned where he is instead facing the runner – cause the same thing to occur?
My thought is that there is no sure way to guarantee less injury and perhaps playing out of position might even cause those chances to go up.
Watching spring training right now. Reyes just reached into the hole and gunned a guy out. Then laced a single into right center, and stole second base.
Meanwhile the Mets offense is one K after the other.
I hate Fred Wilpon.
Fred Wilpon did not let Reyes go. What’s that saying about a river in Egypt?
Really? So you think Fred Wilpon wanted Reyes back and Sandy told him no?
Strange because Sandy wanted to trade Wright, and Jeff stepped in and signed him. When it comes to big contracts the owner makes the call. But you’re far too inept to understand that.
Well I don’t know what Fred Wilpon was thinking but I do have the opinion that if Sandy Alderson felt the best way to go forward and rebuild is to keep Reyes as part of that, Reyes would be on the Mets today.
As for Wright, true Jeff Wilpon was very vocal about Wright but I don’t see Salderson hemming and hawing, stuttering, or choosing his words carefully when discussing Wright’s contract. In fact he sounds very, very relaxed and in complete agreement that signing Wright was the correct move. I mean i hear that if it were up to Salderson he would have let Wright go but that’s just heresay. When I see Salderson talking about? He seems happy as Matt Cerrone would be if he were to wake up one morning and find MessRockwell’s bloody head at the foot of his bed, lol.
You seem to be “on board with Sandy” a lot these days. Was it strawberry-kiwi or citrus punch? The Koolaid they served you I mean.
Joe D is just coming off a high because he spoke to a celebrity. It will wear off just like last time. That stuff doesn’t faze me and a guy like Alderson is certainly not gonna faze me.
I know, you’re probably right. I just wanted to bust his chops because that’s like what? Three posts in a row from him hugging on Sandy? Enough already, we get it.
BTW did you happen to catch the amber alert yesterday? Also good news. My son is setting up a basic blog for me, and I’m going to have a chat in it and it will be mine and when it’s up I will let you know. I’m instituting a reptile free zone, if you know what I mean. Nothing fancy just so that we can have a chat with no holds barred like it used to be. I’m not blogging or anything on it. Wait until you see the domain name or name of the blog!
Absolutely!!!! I’m in. That is great news. Please let me know when it’s up. That is really good news. Hopefully we can get a nice crew in there that we can talk BASEBALL instead of 24/7 contracts and xFIP.
Hey Maniac,
Don’t forget to include me in that!
I really don’t see a problem with the Mets doing this. MLB will be changing the rule most likely because they don’t need to lose a catcher to a concussion or injury like Posey. If the rule is not in effect and it’s game 7 of the world series and the winning run is coming at TDA, yes I believe he will still try to block the plate. But if we’re talking an April 15th game against the Marlins in the 5th inning, then no. It honestly happens so rarely anyway, it’s not that big of a deal.
The Mets trying to protect their young catcher who has had a knee problem and a concussion before is smart.
Kid came up with the Pirates a few years back, switch hitter, great bat with one of the sweetest left-handed power strokes I’d seen in a while, but he was a catcher, and not only that, he played with the kind of reckless abandon you don’t usually see now-a-days, what’s the term? “a rolling train wreck,” This kid had a couple of stretches where he was mashing but couldn’t stay off the DL … Ryan Doumit. Personally I think he had the potential to be a terrific hitter were it not for his too numerous injuries. Didn’t matter if you asked him not to block the plate or stop playing like a maniac, it’s who he was/is. He’s on the Twins now where Gardenhire has him on a sort of “preservation” program, some catching, some RF, some DH … and he had a very good season last year.
I think eventually we might get back to the days where guys like John Stearns man the dish … guys that’d make you really think twice before you ran into them (anyone remember the Dave Parker collision?) … you watch Yadier Molina, he will always line his left knee up with the third base line and get into this real tight crouch behind his shinguard so if you try to slide into him you get a knee in the face or chest. Runners will combat that by coming in high (I’ve even seen some try what I can only describe as a modified stiff arm) but if the catcher gets into a tight crouch behind the knee, not much the runner can do without risking serious injury — especially if the catcher gives the runner the outside part of the plate like he’s supposed to. Problem with d’Arnaud is it was his left knee I believe that was the problem, so that may not be an option.
Stearns also tended to miss a lot of games injured.
Yeah but at least it didn’t totally screw up your lineup when he was out, although he did hit a little. Stearns was one tough hombre …
oh, no doubt he was a tough “dude”. But that takes a toll on a body. pretty sure some of his injuries were related to the crashes. And very likely, the accumulated abuse (wear and tear) certainly sapped some of his hitting.
Had to look it up but one of his bigger injuries was rolling his ankle on a baseball. I remember it happening and hwo freakish it was
I’m Thumbing my Nose at all those who dismissed me when I said those Injuries he has had were something of a concern….
Seems the FO actually agrees with me for once and that MINOR (as some suggested) Non Surgery needing injury and all the other past injury issues are something they will have to protect and keep an eye on….
Or maybe they just don’t want one of their prize rookies getting hurt on a play that does nothing but make a guy look macho.
Would it be an issue if he was never injured and had no Knee, Back and Concussion issues?
NO!
They probably tell this to every catcher. This time its just publicized becaused D’Arnaud is a top prospect.
What chronic injury broke Posey’s ankle?
Hi Metsie,
I was also thinking about how Sandy said he wasn’t concerned about d’Arnaud past injuries and now says “we also had to take into account his injury history and his value to us going forward for the future.”
Can understand his concern but not why he felt the need to downplay that in December. Hasn’t he learned by now that being more honest with the fan base calls for less second guessing down the road? Nobody would have been upset if he said at the time of the trade “we also had to take into account his injury history and his value to us going forward for the future.” instead of waiting to now but now, with the way we have been treated to double-talk before, one wonders if the Mets were concerned about him being injury prone like we were with his prior back injuries, etc.