25
2013
Mets Willing To Deal Murphy or Tejada, Plus Montero, Fulmer or Syndergaard For Upton?
An article by 
While the Mets try to make do with an outfield made up of what would likely be utility outfielders on most other teams, John Harper of the Daily News sheds some new details on the Mets’ failed pursuits of Justin Upton and Michael Bourn.
Regarding Upton, the Mets were hoping he would just fall in their laps for either Daniel Murphy or Ruben Tejada plus two A-Ball pitching prospects, believing Arizona GM Kevin Towers was desperate for a third baseman or shortstop.
In addition to either Murphy or Tejada, the Mets would have included one or more of lower-level pitching prospects, presumably someone from the likes of Rafael Montero, Luis Mateo, Michael Fulmer, or even recently-acquired Noah Syndergaard.
But while Alderson actually thought he was in the game, a baseball executive from another club who knows Towers well says the D-Backs GM never got close to doing anything with the Mets before finally trading Upton to the Braves.
As for the Bourn situation, for one thing it’s now clear other teams complained about making an exception to the terms of the collective bargaining agreement just to appease the Mets and also let Scott Boras beat the system.
The Mets were going to have to win a grievance to keep the draft pick, and Alderson didn’t want to go through that process before having an agreement because he believed it would give Boras more leverage. It was that fear and tentativeness that blew any chance to sign Bourn, sources told Harper.
“Typical Mets.”
“They can say this happened or that happened but the bottom line is they didn’t act decisively,” one major league executive said. “They should have gotten the draft pick decision settled — it wasn’t going to change Bourn’s market. To let the delay of the draft-pick decision get in the way of a deal was small-time thinking.”
The executive added that while neither Bourn or Upton was going to make the Mets winners in 2013, it now makes building a contender-worthy outfield in 2014 considerably more difficult, and that Alderson will be under the gun to finally deliver a winning season in his fourth and final year of his contract.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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Wasn’t it released that Bud wouldn’t make a decision until an agreement was in place? Oh we’ll, Bourn still got more than he was worth and Upton wasn’t worth Harvey or Wheeler. Maybe one of these guys will surprise us.
yeah, that is what was reported everywhere. It never really made any sense IMO but MLB would not make the decision until the deal already happened.
If anything, typical Bud!
“Typical Mets.”
“They can say this happened or that happened but the bottom line is they didn’t act decisively,” one major league executive said. “They should have gotten the draft pick decision settled — it wasn’t going to change Bourn’s market. To let the delay of the draft-pick decision get in the way of a deal was small-time thinking.”
Ok, add Maniac, Vinny, Bayonne, Metsie, Kmaxxx, Alex68 etc amongst the few who’ve been saying the same thing for the past 3 years…. the way they act up there in the FO is as if they’re the smartest group on earth and wait for things to come to their lap instead of going out and getting it.
yup…i said the same exact thing…
the draft pick order was announced on October 6th….
the mets wait until January to make an issue out of it
personally i was never a big Justin Upton fan, his home/road splits dont play out well in Citifield..they do in Atlanta though…
Had the mets gone after Bourn + 1 other OF ( Ross, Hairston, BJ Upton, etc )
we can keep all our kids AND have a contender in 2014…
Upton is an interesting case. Really curious to see what he becomes. And playing his home games in a spacious park, and in a tough division, really was a red flag.
Would still love to have him, but am not guaranteeing he is going to be the star to carry the team forward.
Same. Upton worth Harvey or Wheeler. Splits outside of Arizona not so good.
Still think the Mets should be very judicious in how they handle the surplus of young pitching; however, moving a couple of choice prospects for a strong OF prospect or two might make sense.
Signing Bourn would’ve brought some relief to the OF and provided us with a competent lead-off hitter for the next 2-4 years, depending on how he holds up. Bourn’s signing shouldn’t have hinged upon protecting the draft slot, although if unprotected it would have substantially impacted this year’s draft.
There is some logic toward Alderson holding onto some $$$, protecting this year’s draft, developing some of our pitching prospects and seeing whether a strong OF candidate is available on the trade market mid-season or next off-season. He might be able to net a strong OF prospect or competent ML OF from a team that’s pitching-starved.
Time will tell…
I meant, “Upton NOT worth Harvey or Wheeler”
We need an “edit” function, Joe!
This GM has COMMITMENT ISSUES!!!!
It Second Guesses itself on EVERY DECISION and as a result tey tend to NOT make a decision waiting for the answer (the Player, the Price, The WINS) to come to them without the need to take any risk….
They would not commit to a price on Reyes that he might have said yes to, hoping he would drop back into thier lap at a price they couldn’t say no to…(The old Bidding Against yourself) If they made an offer they might have paid 2-3 Mil MORE if he accepted thier offer than they could have had him for if the rest of ther league refused to pay him and he came back to us for a discount of what they even considered he was worth.
Ike should go down, But wait maybe he should stay up! (At least they made the right choice this time)
We are Buyers, No we are NOT Buyers
Maybe we are Sellers (Hairston), No we are not (because we asked for the moon hoping someone desperate would cave and give us just a bit more than he deserved)
Harvey is NOT READY, A week and one shaky start later HE’s READY!
We are building from the draft, We take Players X,Y, and Z, Decide after the fact half of them are not worth having.
We Close down one of our Affiliates, A year later reopen it!
This Front Office has spent tha last two years putting one foot forward only to pull it back and then take a step in the opposite direction.
It has no faith in its own decisions why the hell should we have faith in them as well?
At least us INEXPERIENCED Fans are smart enough to know the decision was bad from the get go!
I don’t think this surprises anyone honestly. We could have easily made a better offer than Atlanta and not drain the farm system, but we knew we weren’t going to be aggressive enough to get him.
By the way just who the f is this MLB exec. I love these guys who blow their mouths off and hide behind their titles without giving their names. The truth be told these so called “execs” don’t give one damn dime about the Mets or any MLB team. What their interested in is PARITY a la Goodell and the NFL. Why? Parity equals revenue. Fans don’t want to see the Nats play the Marlins, Pirates, or the Braves play the Mets knowing that the field isn’t balanced. Their after fan interest, attendance and making every team competitive not for any purient interest for the money. And finally if these guys are so worried about the Mets and their outfield why the hell didn’t they give the Mets a hint on the Bourn situation and the draft before Alderson has to gamble on Bourn and then possible lose the draft pick. They could have worked something out but don’t give us this crap after the fact. Alderson, the Wilpons are an entirely another subject and their negotiating skills can be debated but this MLB exec can put it where the sun don’t shine. Boy this P……es me off big time. MLB Exec-crawl back into your hole whoever you are!
If the mets cared enough about their OF, they wouldnt let the draft pick get in the way
thats the pink elephant in the room that you refuse to acknowledge
If draft picks are so unimportant then why were other teams protesting the Mets request to let them keep their draft pick? Can’t be both ways.
Boomer,
Draft picks aren’t unimportant, but they need to be weighed against the deal at hand. Joe D. nailed it on the head in his final paragraph, and JDD reiterated it above – 1. Adding Bourn would have helped in 2013 and made the 2014 task easier and 2. signing Bourn instead of trading for Upton would have most likely meant parting with the #11 pick, but keeping 3-4 players of proven quantity…including several propects that could be used in future acquisitions. Bourn is not the end-all be-all, but let’s face it – Alderson did a poor job here for reasons mentioned in the article. One can only conclude that he either acted small-time, or had no true intent to get Bourn, which should really piss off season ticket holders, and any paying customer for that matter.
TJ
I would only agree if I thought Bourn was worth the contract he was offered plus surrendering the 11th pick. I don’t.
Are you seriously telling me you would have been happy entrusting our leadoff spot for the next 4 years to a guy who struck out 295 times in the last two years, is 30 years old and who’s best attribute are his legs? People here would have been killing Alderson for this deal in very short order.
And no, I do not agree that it would have made the job of rebuilding the outfield easier next year. I know its convenient for lots of people to keep ignoring the financial problems this team has but we aren’t out of the woods yet. Just today it is being reported that the Mets are going to lose $10 million this year, best case. The Mets need maximum payroll flexibility over the next couple seasons to go after the OFers they need. Committing $12 million a year to Bourn would have increased the loses and made it even more difficult to fill holes not easier.
Bourn is a good player, not a great player, at the inflection point of his career. What the Mets need is an impact player and Bourn ain’t it. We are likely to see equal or better opportunities at the trading deadline.
Oh and since we are trying to be fair, Bourn is also 0 for ST through 2 games just like Duda. Time to panic about Bourn?
no for Bourne is actually a major league player….those type guys use spring training to get ready.
Given that he struck out 155 times last season I’d say he’s in mid-season form.
awesome…so given that any top OF the mets would’ve signed would’ve resulted in a lost draft pick…name the player you felt was worth giving the pick over ?
Josh Hamilton.
Seriously, do you subscribe to the theory that making any deal, even a bad one, is the way to do business? I don’t.
Stuff happens in baseball all the time and players we never thought would come available do. Did you predict that Granderson would break his wrist yesterday? Did you know that Miami was going to dump half their team last offseason? Opportunities will come up that we don’t even know about right now and I’d prefer to have the flexibility to go after better players rather than be locked into Bourn for the next 4 years.
People in Cleveland are already admitting they overpaid for Bourn and their offer was less than the Mets would have had to pay. The Mets tried your method of overpaying for FAs for years and it didn’t work. I’d rather try a more sustainable route.
“Did you know that Miami was going to dump half their team last offseason?”
Yes, I just didn’t expect it to be so soon.
Yup – I think everyone but Reyes knew he wasn’t playing out that contract in Miami.
Speaking of….did you see that letter Loria published to the fans in 4 Miami papers over the weekend? LOL…I don’t know what he’s thinking but judging by the comments from the Marlins fans, they’re not buying it.
Yeah, that worked real well for him.
Ok, so Josh Hamilton was the only player worth losing a pick over?
and JH signed a contract that will pay him 32 mil at age 35 + 36
my point is..u can find an excuse not to sign anyone every year….
u sandy fans are awesome at that
Not nearly as awesome as you nattering nabobs of negativism who think every FA is worth mortgaging the future for and your ability to spend money the team doesn’t have.
I wish some of you would take responsibility for the free spending ways of the past that produced bupkis and helped put us in the financial hole we are currently in.
But you never do. Just bitch and moan and pretend we aren’t still paying guys like Bay not to play for us.
didnt say EVERY FA…
but Sandy has signed NONE
in between EVERY and NONE is an inbetween
like i said, u sandy apologists are beyond pathetic
Sandy has been preaching flexibility every year, resulting in a worse w/l record every year, dwindling attendance every year, less revenue every year, snowballing into a team not being able to afford ANY FA
but yeah, tell me again how NOT spending is working out for us !
Boomer,
I agree with you that Bourn is good, not great, and in a perfect world they would not forfeit the #11 pick. BUT,
- you need to give to get, even when signing quality FAs
- what Bourn brings is desparately needed by this team – speed, a leadoff hitter, and gold-glove outfield play (in a very big OF)
- I don’t care how may whiffs Bourn has, or if he is a left-handed hitter – OBP and runs socred are the only stats that matters
- he just turned 30. I know the charts show fall-off after that age, but any FA OF is going to be in this age bracket
- 4 yrs.$48 mil is not comparable to Bay’s contract.
- just because Bay and Perez sucked is no reason for any team, no less a big market team, to run from FA signings
Look, I am no Sandy basher, he has done some good things here. But, and that is a big but, no one in touch with reality is going to believe anything he says, and this includes the paying customers, until he back up the “we intend to compete” talk with some actions. Bourn was debatable, Arizona’s price was debatable, but he struck out on all fronts which is inexcusable while the cheapest opening day seat is $63. How about we sign up Brian Wilson as an insurance policy for Parnell/FF? Surely a team that plans to compete in 2013, sas the GM says, can do that with the wad of money in Freddy’s pocket.
“do you subscribe to the theory that making any deal, even a bad one, is the way to do business? I don’t.”
so i am asking you….what was the “right deal?”
b/c any free-agent u sign is going to come with risk….
i asked u who was worth losing a draft pick over and u picked the most expensive and unlikely player to come here..
this is called B-S
If player is worth losing draft pick, he is too expensive
if player is not worth losing draft pick, he is too risky
u sandy fans are so full of it…
u literally will defend any position he takes
JDD,
I have to agree with you on these points
Maybe the rest of the owners are sick and tired of the preferential treatment that Selig gives to the corrupt and hapless Wilpon. They had to use their money for the loans that Selig gave him. At the same time they saw him do everything he could to rid the Dodgers of their old ownership. And ehy should any of them help the Mets or any other team for that matter.
If draft picks ARE so important than why did we undersloty and lose our 2nd Rounder and then decide not to sign the last half of the draft after that?
I totally agree with you but neither you and I are negotiating or making business and player decisions for a baseball franchise valued at least 500 million dollars or more. I am on your side BUT my beef is with these gutless MLB execs blowing off their mouths when they have no control over an individual club’s day to day business and player decisions. To prove my point. Atlanta may have the BEST outfield in baseball with Heyward Upton and Upton BUT this exec didn’t criticize the Braves for putting the other MLB clubs at a disadvantage and tell the BRaves they had no business stacking the outfield the way they did. Agh you say that’s not the same, well I beg to differ it is the same when you look at from the other side of the fence.
but the mlb exec wasnt talking about the upton trade, he was talking about bourn…
and the braves could’ve kept bourn, traded for upton and spent LESS money…
so the question remains…
who would you have signed this off-season that was worth losing the pick over?
and if the scenario comes up again next year…who would u deem worthy of losing a pick over?
beltran?
ellsbury?
granderson?
gomez?
nelson cruz?
after what happened this year, I would bet that a lot fewer guys get qualifying offers, and more of the ones that do will take them (the reason they won’t get them in the first place!).
true stars will, but the borderline guys (like Bourn, Lohse, Gomez) may not, since the teams won’t want to take the risk if they aren’t anxious to have them back for 13-14mill.
and if the scenario comes up again next year…who would u deem worthy of losing a pick over?”
Damaja, with the way this team is constructed, i don’t think you should worry about losing a draft pick next year, i think we’ll be top 5 in draft pick next year
Could but some how we missed your prediction on that last year.
The team won 4 more games… I love how you make it seem as if the mets made the playoffs. on other team you can be wrong all you want, but when you predict your own team to be good or mediocre and you nail it is pretty much what you should be content with, you think i was the only one who predicted the marlins to be good last year? go and check ESPN baseball “analyst” and “Experts” and see me…
You are missing the point. I am saying I am willing to bet last year you assumed the Mets pick would be protected and it wasn’t. One can even argue that it should have been. But with these new draft rules, who knows how bad the Mets will even have to be to be protected? What if 5 teams don’t sign their guy?
‘What if 5 teams don’t sign their guy?’
This has been my point all along.
If MLB is going to leave the wording the way it is, they still need to address that now. All teams need to know that just finishing with one of the 10 worst records doesn’t guarantee them anything in regards to protected picks.
If they are going to change that wording, they need to address that now as well. Not during the off season again when they’ve got another potential team wanting to sign a FA and waiting on a decision if their pick will be protected.
If I had to lose a pick I would have signed Bourn. If I decided n ot to sign Bourn I would have signed Rick Ankiel for probsbly a low price of a million and had him as a backup if the outfield didn’t work out or to get me to the 2014 market. I like Ellsbury and Granderson if Granderson comes back 100percent after breaking his forearm. Nelson Cruz is a defensive liability-a big one.
See below. How in the heck is a LH Ankiel a better option than Kirk, DD and V-Spin?
It was not an “exception” that was being looked for. More of a clarification to a gray area).
MLB really has to do it before next off season anyway, otherwise you could easily be in the same situation again.
These NY writers bug hell outta me. Always looking to jab & hit the ribs to get a reaction to keep ‘a story’ going. “1 MLB Executive…’Typical Mets.” Well, tell me again how many teams make the Playoffs even for a cameo each year? Oh, so 60% DON’t? i wonder just ‘where’ the ’1 MLB Exec’s’ team finished? Nice to deflect criticism away from one’s own failures onto anotehr team to a willing ‘reporter’ eager to kick up dirt, isn’t it?
And guess what, i betcha Upton is no great shakes for Atlanta. He may have a good ’13, because his MO calls for 1 and he’s with his brother, but i’m betting 2 tihings: 1) time will tell if Montero, Mateo, Syndergaard were worth keeping at least 1 more year for either enticing trade bait next year or bonafide MLB hurlers for uss in the future, and 2) i doubt Upton was worth all the rage, fretting over getting him.
Again, which is it? How could they have settled all this stuff early and not “sit on their hands” when most outlets reported there had to be a deal in place before MLB would rule? Wouldn’t this put it on the shoulders of Boras and Bourn and not on the Mets? The Mets can make an offer all they want but until those two agreed in principle to the deal it didn’t matter and the Mets couldn’t approach MLB. Isn’t that the common understanding?
Key word was sit on their hands… Which is what this FO seems to be really great at…. Had not been for an all star/mvp type caliber player and a CY winner who knows how bad we’d be under them. if anything, 2 years of draft picks and so far, nothing jumps out for the kids they’ve drafted. Yet according to the gooners and sandy apologist’ it’s ok to rebuild the minors etc… Keep thinking that under this FO we’re building for the future…
you don’t like Fulmer either?
Do you guys think they were so consumed with the R.A. deal to the Blue Jays that they put the outfield situation to the side and said to themselves “let’s get this deal done first, we can always come back to that.” And when they got back to it, it was gone. Just askin’.
It’s possible that they always thought they would get either a catcher or an OF for Dickey and then back fill the other position. I don’t think they ever expected to be in on Bourn until he fell that late.
Ummmmmm… so let me get this straight, they’ve gotten over 40 players in the draft, and only fulmer, who i like btw but it’s not a wow factor type guy to be talked about yet is the only one you can come with up????
no, there were plenty of other guys doing just fine from the last couple of drafts. I just mentioned the highest rated one since you seemed to thing there were none at all.
After two years it’s hard to say anything about any draft picks. Eventually you may be right and we can say they are failures. Not yet.
…and yet after 2 years, jose fernandez and courtney hawkins have generated more interest than all our draft picks from 2011/2012 combined
LMAO
True, some times you don’t hit in the draft. Those two players may turn out to be better than anyone we drafted. Of course we could play that game with Omar’s selections as well.
Omar’s first draft.
Selects Pelfrey 9th.
Buchholz, Garza, Ellsbury, Bruce and McCutchen were all drafted that year in the first round after Pelfrey.
Does that make Pelfrey a bad pick? Omar a bad GM? Mets scouts bad at their jobs?
Does that make Pelfrey a bad pick? Omar a bad GM? Mets scouts bad at their jobs?”
According to depodesta, if he picks a guy in the first round, and he becomes a #3 or #4 then you did very, very good…. So……………………………
Damaja, the picks after nimmo and backupchinni are already top minor league players for their respected teams… SMH. this people make all kinds of excuses not to make their lord look bad.
TRS86, that’s the thing, i don’t wanna be right, but with depodesta’s track record of draft picks busts, seeing how in 2 years none of these guys have done well enough for you to be excited makes you wonder if we wasted 2 entire drafts on PO’ss .. anyone should be at least agree with me on this, it’s not about the players we’ve gotten, who knows yet right, it’s more about the guy making these picks that you and everyone should be worry about..
Well lets see after 2 years in Omar’s first two drafts we were excited about Pelfrey and who? In fact include his first 3 drafts? Who were we actually “excited’ about? Ultimately some of those guys turned out to help but we certainly weren’t “excited” as you termed it.
There was Joe Smith in 2006…
and by 2008, Murphy sure had alot of fans up here
so thats Pelfrey – Smith – Murphy
and in less than 2 years, Harvey sure generated a ton of interest too….
and in less than 2 years, Ike sure generated a ton of interest too…
sorry charlie…
You were “excited” about Joe Smith after he was drafted? You were “excited” about Murphy after one year?
Joe Smith was up in the majors less than a year after he was drafted
lol
So?
Does that change the level of excitement? Were you excited by Joe Smith the ROOGY?
We are talking about the first 2 years. Alderson has been here two drafts. After this year who knows who was drafted in his first year that we will be “excited” about?
So after two drafts Omar had Pelfrey, Smith and 13th rounder Dan Murphy.
After his first draft Alderson has Fulmer, Jack Leathersich. Seems about the same.
So if alderson steps down after this year, going by your standards u can never make a comparison????
Good question. I think it’s hard to compare GM’s regardless. Do we really think that the goals in Omar’s first two years even match the goals of Sandy’s first two years? Same can be said for Phillips. Is it fair to judge him based on how it ended when he actually did a lot of good? But that being said, you can certainly compare Omar’s first two drafts to Alderson’s once you set a time period to see if they developed. Omar’s first two classes, certainly enough time has been given. So perhaps in 5-7 years you can judge Sandy’s first class the way we now can Omar’s.
That still ignores the situations. Omar’s drafts were at times handicapped by the lack of willingness to go over slot and the countless FA signings that we never received compensation picks in return in an effort to win now. Should Omar be held accountable for that? Was that Omar or the Wilpons?
Hell, eddie kunz generated more noise than any of this guys depodesta and sandy picked…. SMH… Nothing but a sandy apologist and lover from the desert…
Alex, how is that fair? Also, keep the damn insults to yourself. Trying to have an adult conversation so try and focus.
You saying that there was more excitement around Kunz, yet many are still excited about Nimmo, Cecchini, and Fulmer. Yet those people don’t count because they don’t agree with you.
Pointless conversation. You and I both know that after Omar’s first two drafts you were bitching about how bad they were.
Wrong again, i didn’t bitch as much about his draft choices because i know what happens with draft picks, i was more concern with him having an open wallet with the wilpons that doomed this team down the road and guess what? I was 100% right about that. no second guessing or anything, just the truth, i expect your apology on perez and castillo since according to you, they were good signings at the time… IT’s with this new FO that people like you are focusing more on draft picks and minor leaguers instead of looking for ways to improve the major league team… Half ass rebuilding!
I already showed you links where I said, let Perez go, take the pick and sign Garland and Wolf so get off that one.
Back to the point, you were very critical of Omar including his drafts. That doesn’t change the fact that after Omar’s first two drafts no one was “excited” then either.
“reported there had to be a deal in place before MLB would rule?”
so why wait until JAN to get a deal in place?
the draft pick order was announced on oct 6th
free-agency began the first week of november
this issue did not come up until mid January…
thats roughly 10 weeks…
Again, there has to be two willing parities for a deal to be in place. The Mets can’t just go to MLB and say we got a deal when Boras and Bourn are still out seeking a big contract.
because in the beginning of January, Boras wasn’t signing for 4/48
and u know this how ?
And you know they would?
Again, both parties would have to agree to a deal in principle before you could petition the MLB. The Mets are only one side of that.
well i know there was NO offer made…
the easiest way to hear the answer NO is to never make an offer !
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/02/mets-made-four-year-offer-to-bourn.html
yes in FEBRUARY !!!
why was a 4 year deal not offered in November? in December? in January?
o let me guess…
Sandy just knew that with NO other suitors, Boras was going to decline the offer ????
Sandy wanted to wait for the last second and grab the guy nobody else wanted, giving him leverage.
Either play in the Mexican League or come to Flushing
thats his M.O.
and that works when u are trying to sign the Marlon Byrds of the world….but Sandy treated Bourn like Byrd and got burnt for it
Why because at the time Boras was looking for what Bourn got. The Mets had no intentions of being involved on Bourn until his price dropped dramatically. Bourn said so himself that the bottom fell out of his market. Thus implying a 4/48 offer in November would have been incredibly pointless.
Did Boras ever announce that he was waiting for X amount of dollars or years ???
“At the same time, several executives charge that agent Scott Boras overreached and initially asked for much more than a four year deal. “Boras clearly felt he’d get significant length, definitely five years, possibly six or seven,” one exec told Rosenthal. Here’s more Saturday linkage..”
“The Indians offered Michael Bourn a deal in November worth roughly as much as the four-year, $44MM offer the team eventually made to Shane Victorino, Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports. Victorino rejected the Tribe to sign with Boston, but Bourn eventually ended up taking a similar offer (four years/$48MM with a $12MM vesting option on a fifth year) from the Indians once a larger contract failed to materialize on the open market. “
Alderson knew his pick was unprotected in August when Appel didn’t get signed. He certainly didn’t do shit about it until January. What a freaking fraud if there ever was one. The biggest one NY baseball has ever seen. This guy is a Harvard Lawyer? Really?
putting aside th ehyperbole, did the Mets apparently make realistic, viable offers?
seems so, from what was reported (keeping in mind none of us, or any of the beat writers, know all the exact details).
But in this piece, it said the Mets offered Tejada or Murphy, plus a couple of high-end young arms. So say it was Montero + Fulmer or Synergaard
IOW, a ML starter at a position they needed, a top rated SP prospect, and another good young arm.
Seems like a legitimate offer compared to the Braves, other than Prado being more proven (though older and requiring a more expensive contract). And more than I would have expected.
Bourn? Well, IMO, he is only getting people hot and bothered because of the other guys on hand, and shortly down the line would be the next hipping boy. But putting that aside, the Mets still made the same 4/48 offer as Cleveland, and it seems that up until the last minute he was still going to sign, until Cleveland blinked and offered an easy to vest 5th year. That combined with losing the #11 pick + a ton of draft money was when Sandy said no more. Can’t really fault him.
MLB though should have addressed the forfeiture rule when it first became apparent that it was an issue this year. Not make an exception, but definitively clarify what the rule meant, so there would be no question, and this situation would be avoided. Made the league look really bad.
Yeah, the offer for Upton if true was more than fair but the Dbacks obviously wanted guys to help right NOW and the Mets didn’t have a Prado and weren’t willing to give Wheeler or Harvey thankfully.
makes you wonder, if they were willing to move the package, what could you get for Tejada/Montero/Synergaard? That would have to bring back a good OF.
though of course, I would much rather trade Murphy than Tejada, but I would assume Ruben will get a better return.
“and it seems that up until the last minute he was still going to sign, until Cleveland blinked and offered an easy to vest 5th year. ”
easy to vest?
its based on 500 PA, not health….
if Bourn stinks, the Indians can EASILY make him a platoon player or bat him at the bottom of the order, same as Bay…his option was never going to vest.
there was an article on vesting options the other day and only 20% of options were actually met in the past 3 years.
sweet jesus, the lack of logic on this site is mind-boggling
Kevin Towers is the D-Backs GM… Just a tiny, itty bitty, correction. Josh is the first name of the Padres’ GM. He actually was Arizona’s GM before Kevin Towers.
If Giancarlo Stanton becomes available next offseason, I fully expect the Mets to go all in for him.
Syndergaard should be a top 10-20 prospect by years end and should be able to headline any deal. With other prospects like Flores, Montero and Fulmer, the Mets have the means to acquire Stanton, should he be made available.
No shot.
Yeah thats what people said when it was Upton we were talking about….
There is always a shot…It just depends on how you approach the negotiations when the call comes in…
Play the pain in the ass stingy unmoveable negotiator and you lose him to someone else….
Act like it’s an important deal to you and work hard on an enticing counteroffer that does not insult them and you might talk long enough to get a consensus on what both sides will accept…
But if the phone rings and you say NO NO NO Call me back with a better offer you will never get that second call….They will simply move onto another partner.
Syndergaard should be a top 10-20 prospect by years end and should be able to headline any dea”
SHOULD BE????????????????????????? On what accounts?
The same accounts apparently that made him worth having as a complement to d’Arnaud for a Cy Young Pitcher I suppose! LOL
But we passed on some guys that could have gotten us through the season if the oiutfield faltered. We could have signed these guys for 1-2 million and they would be a pretty good insurance for the outfield: Matt Diaz, Rick Ankiel and Jordan Schaeffer. All three proven major leaguers that come off the becnh or platoon.
Diaz was interviewed and said that this time he wanted to go somewhere not for playing time but for personal reasons and a chance to compete. So he was out. Ankiel? Another LH? Why do we think he would be better than DD, Kirk or V-Spin? Since 2009 Ankiel: .234 .295 .383 .678
Schafer, another LH : .221 .305 .301 .606 in 893 PA.
How would either of those helped at all?
One word-DEFENSE.
I wanted to add about Defense that Tom Glavine once said that when he pitched and Andruw Jones was in center he saved 2-3 hits a game. Andruw Jones in his prime was the BEST defensive outfielder in baseball and may go down as one of the all time greats at that position. Tom Glavine never would have gotten 300 wins without Andruw Jones. I really believe that.
Uh, Diaz isn’t helping your defense and DD and Kirk are both regarded as very good defensive OF so how are Ankiel and Shafer that much of an improvement? Should we have benched Kirk to start Ankiel? That makes no sense.
Well EVERYONE is sayiong the Mets have the worst outfield in baseball and Alderson makes jokes about it and derides his outfield so if the brass thinks they suck other players won’t suck as bad?The Braves took Schaeffer bakc, Ankiel found a spot on the Nats and Diaz is with the Yankees I believe. So if these teams took these guys, their too good for the Mets?
They took backup positions. Not starting positions. Big difference in what a rebuilding team is trying to do and what teams that expect to be in the race are trying to do.
Again, are you saying that Kirk, DD and V-Spin can’t or even shouldn’t out produce Ankiel and Shafer?
So pleeez tell me why the Mets wanted Bourn?
Because he’s a damn site better than Ankiel, Shafer or Diaz and young enough to have solved CF for a few years. Again, the Mets only wanted Bourn at their price and with no pick attached so assuming those things happened that’s why.
What does Bourn have to do with signing 3 more backup OF, 2 of which are incredibly crappy at this point in their careers? What makes Ankiel any better than Kirk? Shafer any better than V-Spin or DD? Can you give even one logical reason that they would be?
First any of those guys are insurance players for 1-2 mil a year. Before Diaz’ thumb injury he got a lot of key hits for the Braves as a pinch hitter and a late inning replacement due to pinch hitting. He is not the best defensive fielder but doesn’t degrade the position over what we have. The Braves did not want Shafer to go and when they saw a chance to get him back they did. He has the potential to be a starting fielder than can hit but needs more at bats, he is still young. Ankiel is a guy that can come off the bench and give you time in the outfield, All of these guys are low budget too.And at their low price if you get to mid season and you can’t use them their will be teams that will take them for a stretch run or injury replacement and the upside is any one of them can surprise toi the upside.
You are missing the question. What makes you think that signing Ankiel will out produce the LH options we already have?
I have no issue with how the Bourn and Upton situations were handled. As much as I wanted Upton, the Mets weren’t a match. We didn’t have a Prado like player to give up and I wouldn’t have traded Wheeler or Harvey either. With Bourn, I think it came down to the fifth year. This is Bourn’s big contract. He wanted Max dollars and years and Cleveland gave him a fifth year option.
They do need to spend this year. If Hunter Pence plays well this year, that’s my guy.
I’m also excited to see what we have. What do we have in Nieuwenheis? Is Den Dekker an everyday CF? Which Duda will we see, 2011 or 2012? Which young OF amongst the group of Vaughn, Puello, Lagares and Alonzo Harris or someone else will take the next step to becoming a legit OF prospect for 2014? Will Lutz take to the OF ans if Duda fails is Lutz the replacement?
I’m looking forward to see the answers to those questions as well as seeing if Marlon Byrd can rejuvenate his career, if Cowgil can take his strong spring training start and be a productive major leaguer and if Valdespin can take his talent and be a regular player and building block for the future.
but that option is easily avoidable…
No thank you on Hunter Pence.
I really don’t care much about Bourn. He’s better than what they have plays great D and is a decent leadoff guy, but I think he’s overrated and doesn’t add all that much offensively – and not a guy I’d love to give a 5 year deal too. And there are conflicting reports as to when the Mets could’ve gotten the draft pick thing settled – Rubin has still been saying the Mets needed to agree to a deal with Bourn before MLB would rule on the issue
I would have liked to add Upton – another big middle of the order bat and particularly another right handed hitter is one of the main needs. And that situation seemed to be handled poorly in terms of the timing of things. The Mets can’t force the DBacks to take a Tejada-based deal if the Braves liked Prado better and I don’t think they should’ve caved into the Harvey/Wheeler demands. But Alderson seemed to be playing the Upton and Hairston deals off one another….not wanting to commit to Hairston in case they did end up with Upton. And then he ended up losing out on both. Not that Hairston was any kind of long term solution…but if Alderson did have interest in retaining him (which he said he did) he managed that situation poorly.
why not just combine the 2 guys (bourn and Justin) into one, and sign BJ instead? I would actually have rather done that then the deal for either of the other ones.
so now I will just hpe they land Gomez next off season!
so is Gomez going to be worth giving up a pick over…?
and Gomez’s game is based on speed….same as Bourn and Reyes…
Gomez plays in a bandbox for RHP with 16 of his 19 HR coming in notorious hitters parks
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=gomezca01&year=2012&t=b#site
Gomez is going to be 28 ( same age as Reyes )
reyes is gone. get over with it. not at all the same situation.
and yes, I like GOmez as a player, and think he is getting better.
Murphy, yeah, i can see that. Tejada, not so much. I’m not even thrilled with Tejada as a player, but who would play SS? The SS position is probably even more thin than the OF.
Now, Upton > than Tejada, but that said, losing 2 high end A+ pitchers and the only SS that the team has for Upton would be a very hard pill to swallow.
but in terms of giving to get and putting up a serious package, wouldn’t that qualify?
and for SS, most likely it would have meant a stop-gap veteran type, since the only option is what, Tovar?, out of the system!
I think the package does qualify. Looking at what ATL gave, I think the Tejada package would have been more appealing. But that said, neither Tejada or Murph are the player that Prado is. I think that is what derailed this. If Murph showed a little more pop last year, maybe that could have sealed the deal? Guess we’ll never know.
there’s report about mets trying to get @Giancarlo818 for wheeler/d’arnaud. got 2 word response about this: “complete bs”"
I’d do this in a heartbeat…… Hell, wright AND wheeler for mike stanton….
Put the crack pipe down.
LOL…there is now way Loria is taking on Wright’s contract. He’ll be wanting all prospects and low cost/under control type ML players.