27
2013
Mets Are One Of Four Teams Who Can Land Giancarlo Stanton
An article by 
On Monday I posted about a rumor that the Mets and Marlins were discussing a trade for Giancarlo Stanton in exchange for Zack Wheeler and Travis D’Arnaud. I questioned it’s veracity and didn’t put much stock into it, but thought it made for a good debate on the hypothetical aspects of it. The post actually made for a great discussion on MMO with over 100 or so chiming in on it.
Today however, Sports On Earth discussed the possibility of trading Stanton, and Jonathan Bernhardt speculates that the Mets were one of only four teams in baseball that had the pieces to actually pull it off and pry the 22-year old superstar away from Miami. He writes:
The Mets can’t offer one of the top five prospects in baseball, but they can come close, and they certainly have volume on their side — pitchers Zack Wheeler, Noah Syndergaard and catcher Travis d’Arnaud with perhaps one of their cheap, low-ceiling outfielders to take Stanton’s place on the Marlins’ roster should get it done.
Wheeler’s a top twenty prospect and d’Arnaud was one of the best prospects in baseball before a bad knee injury last year; with Syndergaard tossed in, this theoretical package could compete with Baltimore’s and St. Louis’s.
I’d add a caveat about the Mets having to pay more because the Marlins wouldn’t want to trade him inside the division, but I doubt Miami cares too much about that right now. The real reason nothing close to this will happen is because the Mets ownership is almost as irresponsible as Loria in Miami and doesn’t have the money to give Stanton the long-term deal he’s looking for regardless of what the Wilpons say. The trade becomes a disaster if Stanton himself gets flipped the next year when Fred suddenly checked his bills against his bank account.
Making it more likely that Stanton isn’t long for the Miami Marlins, was this very telling statement by team owner Jeffrey Loria, who spoke to reporters last night for the first time since the controversial trade with Toronto last November.
Joe Capozzi, who covers the Marlins for the Palm Beach Post, included this quote from Loria regarding Stanton’s future with the Fish:
“He is here for certainly the foreseeable future and we will cross that bridge at the appropriate moment. He will be here this year and I’m hopeful he will come here the next year. I would love to see him be the centerpiece of this ball club. He’d be the young giant in the ball club, but you can’t make promises in this game because strange things happen all the time.”
The one thing I take away from this is it deflates the argument that many have suggested that the Mets don’t have what it takes to land Giancarlo Stanton. I never believed that, even before the trade for D’Arnaud.
Secondly, that quote from Loria sounds more like a stay of execution for Stanton and I have no doubt that his days with the Marlins are numbered. Especially with arbitration looming in 2014.
Will he end up with the Mets? Well that’s another story, but so far Sandy Alderson has shown more of a propensity to trade away stars rather than trade for them. So there’s that…
SIDE NOTE: Mets’ Media Director Shannon Forde just reached out to me after I wrote to her yesterday and I’m glad to say she’s back working with the team in Florida. Of course she is still fighting her battle with breast cancer, but sounded like she is in good spirits. 
She’s such an amazing person and I know that she will ultimately beat this thing.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 28 | .600 | - |
| Nationals | 34 | 35 | .493 | 7.5 |
| Phillies | 34 | 37 | .479 | 8.5 |
| Mets | 25 | 40 | .385 | 14.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 47 | .319 | 19.5 |
Last updated: 06/18/2013
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Not worth it. Zack Wheeler could become the Ace we all hoped for.. and Aces get paid a whole lot. Syndergaard can become a Grienke-type pitcher. He just got 160+ million to play in LA. Travis d’Arnaud can be a cornerstone-bat for years to come. A true Joe Mauer type of player.
All this > Stanton.
If they threw in Marisnick/Fernandez, I’d think about it.
I won’t go as far as saying they’ll all pan out to that ability, but this team is not one big bopper away from the glory land. If they were, then you go for it. But they aren’t. Not yet anyway.
Lotus, isn’t fernandez regarded by MLB prospectus and everyone higher prospect than wheeler? Why would the marlins trade fernandez AND stanton for wheeler? Are you this naive? Wheeler could become an ace, yeah, but he can also be a bust, as many many prospects do….
You ust do not get it Alex. The great Alderson, the greatest GM in history traded for Wheeler. Therefore, there is nobody to trade for who is better than a guy Alderson brought in!!!!!!! So what if Stanton has proved his ability in the majors. Wheeler proved himself to lord Alderson and to the cult of the false god. Nothing else matters.
“Why would the marlins trade fernandez AND stanton for wheeler?”
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/02/scott-boras-to-represent-jose-fernandez.html
Won’t be long before Fernandez heads out of South Beach.
I would send Noah, d’Arnaud, Flores and whoever else they want, but not Wheeler or Fulmer, so the Mets could have in a couple of season a rotation like: Wheeler, Harvey, Niese, Fulmer, Gee, and a lineup like: Cowgill, Murph, Wright, Davis, Stanton, Duda, Plawecki, Tejada and hopefully, with some money to spend to bring experienced major leaguers to fill holes. Sounds a little scary team to me.
I’m sure they have what it takes to land Giancarlo, but Wheeler, Shingaard, Darno and an toss in? No thanks.
this is an interesting rumor but I wouldnt do it. first reason is that this team is not one player away from contention at this point. Second reason is There is still a huge lack of depth in the organization and I hear about all the great young pitchers but nobody has pitched over A ball yet. Third as somebody pointed out yesterday you give up 14 years of control for 4 years If Stanton is out there next year and some of our other prospects progress and the big team is nearly ready then thats another story.
Yes, what a line, used forever by bad organizations. WE ARE NOT ONE PLAYER AWAY SO WHY MAKE A MOVE. an easy excuse to remain horrible. The Nats, Bravos and Phils applaud this attiude. Keeps the NL East a division with only three major league teams.
YES TRADE FOR HIM RIGHT NOW HE IS REALLY GOOD PLAYER
While adding stanton doesn’t make us championship contender this year, it makes us, arguably one of the best offensive team in baseball…
As much as I like the idea of adding a player like Stanton, I’m not sure if he’s worth the price that’s rumored.
Sure, Stanton is a pure power talent and there is every reason to believe that his power with transfer to CityField.
But we’re looking at trading a lot of depth for one player and the players we are looking to trade fall into the “difficult to replace” category. While players of Stanton’s ability are hard to come by, good OF’ers are much easier to get.
Catchers are expensive when picking them up through Free Agency and wear down quickly so it’s better to have them while young. The reality is that Buck is the catching version of Jason Bay and any real potential for catching is several years off.
As much as people say that Mets have pitching depth, my #1 rule if I were GM would be “Never trade young pitching”. You never know who will find success in the higher levels and any pitcher can get injured at any time severely weakening depth. Plus you add in the fact that most pitchers do not live up to their overpriced 1st contract, it’s better to use and abuse a pitcher while young and cheep and let them leave once their time is up.
Now add in the fact that Stanton has three years under his belt, he’s gonna be very expensive very quickly. Unlike the Mets players who have almost zero MLB service….that’s a lot of cheep control of several players.
I know that we need a reason to watch and go to the park, but I don’t think adding Stanton will be enough to increase revenue…if we suffered these past few years because we’re building for the future…then stick to the plan…no reason to change now and it would be a complete FU to everyone waiting for the future and believing in the game plan.
Also, as good as Stanton looks, part of me worries that he is another version of Alfonso Soriano.
USMF, so you don’t like the idea of having 2 TWO potential 40+ HR hitters in the lineup? Wright disagrees with you…
Actually, I think you mean three 40+ home run hitters. You are forgetting Lucas Duda. #ThingsTerrySays
Duda, wright combined maybe….
Don’t get me wrong, I love the idea of getting Stanton…I just don’t like the idea of who and what we’d have to give up for him.
I’ve been calling BS on Sandy and his lawyer talk and “we’re not punting” cr@p for about as long as you have…I’ve watched in frustration as he traded away my favorite players and let another one walk away while making jokes about it…I’ve watched him completely give up on trying to win. It has really frustrated me…the only reason why I’ve accepted it is because he was here to cut all costs and build a team with depth that can be competitive long term.
I tolerated this plan because I hoped that maybe it might work out for the better…Signing Wright (who I do like) to that contract was ridiculous…that was a big FU to those believing in the plan…Signing Francisco was much the same…now if he makes this move, it’s another reason to question what the hell we sat through just to screw it up no?
Sure adding Stanton gives us a ton of power…but does it really gonna make the team better? Who’s gonna catch the ball? Who’s gonna throw it?
2 of any of our big 3 pitching prospects (Wheeler, Harvey, Syndegaard) is a no go. If we could essentially flip our (slightly modified) return for Dickey, maybe throw in a minor league outfielder, I’d consider that, but it won’t happen.
The issue for me is how important pitching is to our particular organization … the Mets have always done it with pitching.
I disagree Matt. Not when you are talking about a player who is on a Hall of Fame trajectory like Stanton. In the end it comes down to Beltran and Dickey for Stanton. I’d do that without any hesitation or second thoughts.
I have faith that all those young righthanders on the way put us in the enviable position to deal Wheeler and not be hurt by it. Harvey is here already and the Marines are on their way.
Lets also not forget Kevin Plawecki, who we expended a high pick on and a big bonus, is still with us.
You either have faith in Alderson’s suddenly improved farm system and development and do the deal, or do nothing and and still look at the farm with one raised eyebrow.
Stanton is not a Justin Upton or Michael Bourn. He’s a generational star that comes around once in a great while.
In baseball there’s only Mike Trout I put on the same level, but Stanton’s done it for three years and Trout is just a soph.
Hmm, Francisco Pena also had a pretty good winter. He was supposed to be our future backstop.
I don’t know, Wheeler and Syndegaard, particularly if both reach their ceilings, would be a formidable 1 – 2 punch. Hate to “arm” a division rival with that kind of firepower. Look what the Giants have done with Cain and Lincecum, The strategy was, elite pitching comes at a premium and is what you build around, you can always build an offense from free agency and the scrap heap. The Met front office was unabashed about copying the Giant blueprint — this would be a radical departure from their stated course.
Stanton is a helluva player though, and awfully young.
Yes, besides his great talent and yet to come peak, it’s that he’s still so young. Two years younger than D’Arnaud I believe without having to look it up.
“You either have faith in Alderson’s suddenly improved farm system and development and do the deal, or do nothing and and still look at the farm with one raised eyebrow”
This seems to be my problem here….
I don’t have faith in his farm system outside of the players the he seemingly needs to trade to get Stanton!
I would love Stanton but let be clear just keeping the guys Sandy drafted to get him pretty much puts our farm back where it was when he started and that makes all the sufferring the last two years just pain to get Stanton….
I really want to get him but I’m not ready to give (or convinced it takes) that much to get him.
I’m fine with either/or Wheeler/d’Arnaud but not both.
d’Arnaud is the biggest risk due to his injuries but he is also the least replacable prospect we have. I would happily entertain Snydergaard and D’Arnaud instead of Wheeler. And I would give them Flores to make up any difference between those two pitchers.
One thing I certainly would not like is shipping out 4 players for JUST Stanton. I would need a Catcher (if d’Arnaud is included), doesn’t have to be a top prospect but someone close to MLB ready. And there should be some BP arm or at minimum 1 RHH 4th OFer to go with Stanton.
But the players on our side for just Stanton seems like a RAPE is you ask me…
I agree and have said many times these guys are unproven and it’s true…
Stanton most definitly is…For as long as he stays healthy that is….
I would offer something more along the lines of:
Snydergaard
d’Arnaud
Flores
Valdespin
and whatever minor filler needed…
For Stanton and a decent Catcher…
But I’m not really all that ready to give everything that was mentioned above….
Sure it might be a good deal player wise but it really just puts the team back to what it was two years ago….I find it odd how all those who fought so vigorously about the GOOD FARM and long term competitivness are so quick to punt all they fought for away for ONE guy!
In total agreement with you on this Matt!!
Like it or not Met fans should accept the fact that Sandy A’s plan was to slash payroll and make trades for the future of this team. His first serious acquisition for the future was Wheeler. the second was to find a long term solution behind the plate and he was able to find D’Arnaud and top off that trade by getting Noah Syndergard too.
Like you emphatically stated the Mets have always won with pitching and Sandy feels that a staff that headlines Matt Harvey, Jon Niese, Zack Wheeler and in a year or so Noah Syndergard will be dominating. I see that happening easily and if for some reason it doesn’t pan out….the fans will be looking to lynch Sandy for sure!
NO DEAL INCLUDES ANY OF THE FOUR IF YOU ASK ME!
Landing Stanton means having the pieces and also the willingness to make the move happen. The Mets have the pieces, but nothing in me believes that they have the motivation. Stanton will cost Wheeler, d’Arnaud, and at least 2-4 more prospects. The Mets are still in the accumulate assets phase, so this trade is not happening. Also, Wheeler and d’Arnaud represent this new era they’re trying to usher in…they’re going nowhere. Also, Seattle and Texas are the teams to beat for Stanton, and to be honest, I’m not sure that the packages the Mets will be willing to offer will be able to match what Seattle and Texas can.
I keep telling people, we as Mets fan, are starting to get excited about our young talent…but people in baseball really like the Marlins’ young talent as well. They have 5-6 guys in most top 100 lists, we have three…maybe four that mostly we as Mets fans maybe argue for. They have 5-6 guys on everyone list. Once they trade Stanton…they could legitimately have 10 top 100 prospects. Yes prospects don’t always work out, but the more you have…the better chance you have. Fernandez, Yelich, Marisnick, and let’s say they add Profar and Olt from Texas or Zunino, Walker, Franklin or Hultzen…like I said, the Marlins could easily have the best system in baseball once they move Stanton.
You’re dreaming if you think Texas will offer Profar in any deal, they will never include him. And oOlt wont get it done, Olt is almost 4 years older than Flores and has already reached his ceiling, meanwhile Flores is half a Vegas season away from being a top 50 prospect again. The Mariners are the only team that I can see going all in for Stanton.
Will there be any good young (or not so young) pitching available via free agency next year? If so than I’d make this trade in a nannosecond. Mike Piazza wasn’t a pitcher and he turned this organization around immediately.
Stanton will also immediately put a large spike in ticket sales so the Mets would have new found money immediately because of the trade and maybe use that new found money to help land a top of the line starting pitcher?
Looking at the FA landscape for next year, there is Cano as the lone gamechanger on offense and then there are quite a few nice names pitcher wise. Josh Johnson, Garza, Haren, Lincecum, Wainright… Will assume Wainright gets extended, but I’d surely add either of those 4 to the rotation. Surely a matter of cost and what the payroll can absorb, but in theory you could turn Santana’s contract into Josh Johnson + some left over cash, so your theory isn’t unfounded at all. I still lean to holding onto Wheeler and company, but that’s just me.
Stanton will put a large spike in ticket sales? Just like Reyes did for the Marlins! Reyes is now north of the border. Maybe he gets a Mulligan and can boost sales in Toronto. He did little in Miami.
why did Ticket sales go down when David Wright was hitting like Ted Williams half the year?
You have trouble following a view on a thread. Keep spewing pal. This has nothing to do with any player other than Stanton and Reyes.
And you have trouble identifying what analogies are and not this thread is not about Jose Reyes..and JDD can bring up David Wright as many times as you bring up Jose Reyes so it’s a wash whoever the hell you are.
Yes Stanton absolutely WOULD spike ticket sales. And you know what kind of analogy would be proper in this case? When the Mets traded for Mike Piazza.
Yeah sorry pal I gotta side with the guys who usually hate me on this. Stanton would change the face of the franchise. He would legitimize the Mets instantly and would make people believe the future is now.
Comparing what Reyes did with a terrible fan base doesn’t really work for me. Stanton’s superstar draw outweighs Reyes+Wright.
absolutely bringing him in would be like dropping an A bomb into the fanbase.
Now, how many tickets it sells, that is debatable, but for sure it would cause a major stir.
does not necessarily mean it is the right answer for the team (in terms of the future and wins) but it would change the dynamic right now for sure.
I don’t know how you equate tickets to a player to be honest. We have to be honest, the fan base is shattered right now. The hope people have would turn more into a “now” feeling. Maybe he wouldn’t sell tickets right away. But a hot April would… it wouldn’t be like “lets wait and see” it’d be like “i can’t wait to go see this”
I think what you are saying there is if they start out quick with the current bunch, people would not buy into it (IOW, be waiting for the other shoe to drop), but if they get a guy like Stanton and start quick, they might get convinced the team is for real, and be willing to open up the wallet and buy tickets?
Oh that is absolutely what I am saying. We saw them get off to a good start last year and it didn’t make a big impact in sales.
There’s a difference between a bunch of overachievers playing well and a superstar planting his feet in new york city.
It’s just different. I don’t think he’s coming here – but he’d change everything. Those types of players don’t come around often. Two good players do not equal a superstar.
“He would legitimize the Mets instantly and would make people believe the future is now. ”
Well giving away the hypotheticals mentioned it would most definitly be a sign that they have SCRAPPED the rebuild and reversed course…
The question is would they then continue in the offseason (even at the deadline) and go after talent as opposed to cheap options the way they have?
The Fans are not going to come back because of one blockbuster….It’s going to take another good move and truth is it is almost too late to really make a significant impact…The HOPE of a new player must exist at the time Full Season tickets are due to be sold, not in ST.
He most certainly is the type of player to make someone go and buy a few more one offs but by himself no one is plunking down for a major purchase.
The greatest impact on Ticket sales would be next year where a decent showing (not talking playoffs just above .500) would be enough to have people renew plus some new sales to go with them. Make another good move and they might even start turing a profit.
It all depends on what they NEXT after a move like Stanton….
We all thought the same thing after Wright was resigned that it would give the fans some hope they were done getting worse…
Then they turned around and traded dickey going right back to the old Get rid of your BEST for LATER.
I will say this IF they do sell out that farm for Stanton it will be because tickets sales were so bad they will lose 50Mil!
Only a Stanton could make up a lot of that difference if he can draw 200-250K more people to the seats.
The deal has to be based around Syndergaurd and Flores, if they both move up this year in their prospect value while already being top prospects, well then they have a great shot. They can add one of Fullmer, Montero, Mateo, Robles and one of Plawecki or Cehhini, or both position players as well, as long as Wheeler and D’arnaud are not in the deal. I prefer to keep Fullmer.
The person who wrote this forgot to add that there is approximately 34 mill or so on the books for next year, off my head add 20 to 25 mill in arb and that is being generous, the mets have about 50 mill to spend to be around 100 mill, Stanton is a Free agent after 2016, so through arb next year he would get 8 to 10 mill, maybe it works its way up to 14 to 15 by 2016. The Mets have more than enough to give Stanton through Arb and more than enough to hand him an 8 year deal that locks him up through his prime. He is only 22 or 23. It is not like signing a 30 year old to an 8 year deal when you will get tremendous downside because of age, you get his best years, that’s the guy you trade for, the one you can lock up through his prime not after it. That is why it makes sense, of course it is this writers opinion so he writes what he wants to try and make you agree with His opinion. I like my calculations better and they are more realistic. Of course I wrote about this 2 or 3 months ago and Sandy haters did not agree and most people on here thought it was a fantasy, as time goes on you will see it is not. I had the Wheeler pegged 3 or 4 months before it happened and D’arnaud deal pegged last off season except I had neise going for him not expecting a Cy Young season from Dickey, do those deals at the time I said them from what people say where fantasy, that is why I do not listen to others and go with what makes sense, and this does. Although St. Louis, Texas, can make better or equal offers will they? I do not think St. Louis will hand him the contract and trade Oscar and Wong for him, Texas can move Olt and Perez and sign him but will they throw in Profar which is the prospect Florida would want with Olt. If Syndergaurd and Flores improve this season the Mets might have the best offer. The Marlins probably do not move him until next off season so we will see.
Save your breath…er….i mean keystrokes. The deal is not happening without Wheeler. If YOU were the Marlins would you give the Mets a break and not ask for Wheeler? I think not.
There’s a difference between ask and get. But as I said yesterday, I’d give up Wheeler but not d’Arnaud. 2-way cornerstone catchers are too hard to come by. Wheeler/Flores/Montero/Duda(or denDekker)/ and one of Plawecki, Nimmo, Cecchini.
Dave – what is harder to come by? The catcher or a young superstar?
I love the idea of d’Arnaud, I do and I wouldn’t just hand him off but d’Arnaud has a shelf life. I mean realistically if you get 5 years out of him behind the dish, you’re happy right?
You could be trading that for 10+ years of albert pujols like numbers.
d´Arnaud or Mike Zunino are 1-2 best catching prospects in the minors. Virtually everyone agrees with that. I think it´s harder to get a catcher that is good on offense and defense (which includes handling pitchers) than it is to get a power-hitting OFer. Yes, Stanton has few peers in baseball and is a legit superstar. But if you could keep Wheeler, d´Arnaud, Syndergaard and Montero and add someone like Dayan Viciedo, the resulting lineup would have a lot of oomph, PLUS a very deep rotation, PLUS a potentially great catcher. The overall product would be more balanced and with more depth. I don´t really want to create holes that we´ve just filled (C, SP) or reduce the depth that the team will need to survive injuries and/or prospects who don´t pan out as projected.
You don’t have to convince me that d’Arnaud is valuable. I get that. But would you agree he is more of a question mark than Stanton?
I mean lets call a spade a spade. There IS a possibility d’Arnaud’s a 1B in 5 years. We saw the best catching prospect in the game Joe Mauer need a break from catching due to injuries after 5-6 years. d’Arnaud has already had some injuries.
You can’t tell me that you KNOW d’Arnaud will be the franchise catcher you hope him to be. I have more confidence than Stanton can be the franchise offensive player.
Giancarlo is irreplaceable. The only player you can get that replaces him is MAYBE Mike Trout and Trout to me needs to show 2012 was a sign of things to come, and not an amazing year.
You can tread water behind the dish for 2-3 years while hoping guys like Plawecki develop.
You can’t downplay the value of a catcher, I get it. But the value of a young superstar? Not a very good player but a superstar trumps it all. d’Arnaud is a piece to the puzzle, Stanton recreates the puzzle. It’s totally different.
Hey Jessup. We can´t see the future for anybody– there are no guarantees. Even Stanton could go down with an injury. But I don´t see any reason to think that d´Arnaud would be playing 1B by the time he´s 29. There´s no early expiration date on catchers– just ask Piazza, Bench, Fisk, Yogi, Varitek….
BTW, I´m really tired of waiting: ¨just another 2-3 years¨. I like Sandy´s plan, though I wish they could have added a decent OFer this offseason. But I´m 52 and it´s been a looonnngg time since the Mets were truly competitive. We´ve got some good pieces in place now, and I don´t want to create too many holes or depth problems that will endanger our ability to be competitive. By all means get an OF, please! But I´d be happy with a 2nd tier, non-superstar, power hitting OFer that we could get for a lesser package (e.g.-Flores/Montero/Vaughn/Duda/Lara?).
I get you, but Stanton is a star. Honestly he’s like a Dwight Gooden caliber superstar. He’d take over the city, he’d erase years and years of misery and add excitement that very few players can do. Players name Reyes, Wright, Beltran can’t do what Stanton could do to this team, it’s image and it’s chances moving forward. They can try but they just aren’t as talented as he is.
Different skill sets so its hard to compare any of those players with each other…
a more fair comparison is Stanton with….Lucas Duda
Damaja – not sure what you mean? I think Stanton’s play speaks for itself. I’m talking based on their superstar draw. I think Stanton falls in line with Piazza-Straw-Doc and I think he could end up having a greater career than all 3.
Assuming he is a cornerstone. And if he is how long does it take? Does he make a difference this year? Not so sure about that. A year or 2 down the line? Remember he hasn’t played a major league game yet and has looked a little rusty so far and that could be attributed to missing time too so we still don’t know.
Not including d’Arnaud just because he “may” be a cornerstone should not get in the way if he’s the difference maker when getting a guy like Stanton. What catchers will be in the FA market next year as well?
I think saying that d´Arnaud looks rusty after 2 ST games is pushing it a little. Of course he might not pan out– that can be said of anybody. But the concensus is that he´s going to be an impact catcher for a lot of years. And catchers don´t have automatic expiration dates on them– just ask Piazza, Bench, Fisk, Varitek, Yogi, Campanella….(and no, I´m not saying that d´Arnaud will be in that group).
Maybe over matched is the word I should have used, not rusty. But it’s still early for that too and one of the reasons is missing so much time.
Agreed. I think it´s good and right from both business and baseball perspectives to keep him in Vegas for a little while. Let him get his game back to 100% and bring him up when he´s truly ready. Buck will be a good fill-in now, and a good mentor later for both d´Arnaud and the young pitchers.
Well i’m not suggesting to send him in Vegas either because he has a whole month of ST games to turn it around so we will see after that.
Instead of creating another top-heavy roster that crashes when injuries strike, the Mets should focus on creating a strong & broad nucleus.
Again, I´d give the Marlins their choice of anyone on the Mets major league roster or in the farm system as the centerpiece for Stanton.
Be ít Harvey / Wheeler / Niese / d´Arnaud ( they wouldn´t ask for Wright, plus he probably has a no-trade clause anyway)
As a second piece, their choice of any A-Ball pitcher, probably Syndergaard, but if they happen to like Fulmer, Tapia, Mateo or someone else better, so be it.
As a third piece, one of the major league outfielders as an instant replacement; probably Nieuwenhuis, maybe Valdespin or Duda or – instead – Wilmer Flores who probably is the best fit for them.
And as a final piece, a lower ceiling pitching prospect from the group of Verrett, Pill, Gorski, McHugh, etc.
That´s a package that´ll be hard to top even by the Cardinals, Rangers or Mariners for example. One young elite prospect or frontline MLB SP, one high ceiling top 50 overall prospect, a youngish mlb bat and a lower ceiling pitcher.
However, parting with multiple major league core pieces makes no sense in the Mets´ current position.
And I´m highly doubtful it´ll happen.
I expect Stanton to eventually get traded to Texas eventually – for a package of Mike Olt, Martin Perez, Cody Buckel and a raw teenager with upside prospect. Unlike the Mets, Texas already has a strong nucleus of players and is very much in “win now” mode. They have the UPPER LEVEL prospect depth to withstand such an exodus of young talent.
The Mets – for now – don´t.
Stanton for Fulmer/Montero/Tapia/Nimmo/Flores. No way am I giving up Wheeler and T’dA. And if I’m forced into it, I’d swap out Fulmer or Montero for Syndergaard.
Rose colored glasses, I know, but…..
Niese/Harvey/Wheeler/Syndergaard/Gee in the rotation, with a line up of Tejada/Murphy/Davis/Stanton/Wright/T’dA/Duda/Kirk equals contenders for a LOOOOOONG time.
Then no way you’re getting Stanton. Try and think like the Marlins. Would YOU ask you for the package you just offered? I don’t think so.
This trade honestly should be a no brainer… if Giancarlo Stanton says he’ll sign a long term deal with the Mets… if the Wilpons can find the money, i’d give Stanton 10 Years $150 million. If i were Giancarlo, i would. They’d also get Juan Pierre!! NYM has a great infield, their starting rotation is one of the best young staffs in the MLB. Imagine David Wright, Giancarlo Stanton Ike Davis, and Ruben Tejada????? That’s a great group. The lineup would be…..
1. Juan Pierre
2. Ruben Tejada
3. David Wight
4. Giancarlo Stanton
5. Ike Davis
6. Daniel Murphy
7. John Buck
8. Lucas Duda
9. Pitcher…..
That’s an oustanding 1-5!!! in There is power, speed, and more power! That said, i’d trade Wheeler, and d’Arnaud for Stanton and Pierre
3 words to this trade….. NO FRICKEN BRAINER
I forgot about Juan Pierre. That’s it, you make this deal now. and with the crop of Starting Pitchers available next year as stated by TX in my other response all the more you make this deal.
Juan Pierre ?
Don’t think I’d want to have him start over Nieuwenhuis or even Baxter.
Solely relies on slashing singles. Typically he posts a .300 BA with a .340 OBP and no pop one year and is useful and then .280 BA with a .320 OBP and no pop and is not.
He has a 20 throwing arm and his range isn’t better than average these days in spite of the remaining foot speed.
He’d be a non factor in this trade. Similar to the Mets including Brandon Hicks or a “prospect” like Greg Peavey.
And again, the Mets can offer the Marlins their choice of a bunch of A Ball prospects, but from a team building standpoint and what has been done over the past couple of years, parting with more than one key young major league or almost major league piece makes little sense.
the mets are doing the right thing, they are developing power arms. stanton does not get you to the world series. anyone who has watched the Giants the last three years shoud be able to see that.
The in some ways, the mets are better than San Fran. the met’s 1st basebam is better, their 2nd baseman is a little better, their shortstop is sure as hell better, their 3rd baseman is 100% better in all ways, there starting rotation is “CLOSE” to theres, and there bullpen COULD be better. There for, the mets have better hitting than San Fran, and they have a much better starting rotation than Baltimore. Baltiomore’s starters sucked ass last year… the reason why they won all of those extra innings games was because their starters gave up a shit load of runs, then their bullpen gave up none, then their hitter won it for them. That’s the 100% answer of why the Orioles were a fluck last year. Sorry to those fans but… stick to the Ravens. Your baseball team isnt any better even with Dylan Bundy, who i know will be the next Mark Prior.
The Mets could POSSIBLY get just Stanton for d’Arnaud, Syndergaard, Fulmer, Montero, and Flores. I love Zack Wheeler, so I ain’t trading him. If NYM gets Giancarlo without trading Wheeler… Sandy Alderson should win executive of the year. Look at it this way, everyone said Sandy was stupid for saying he wanted 2 top prospects for Dickey, he sure as hell got 2, if hes says i’m not trading Wheeler, but ill do d’Arnaud, Syndergaard, Fulmer, Montero, and Flores. Everyon’s gonna says he’s crazy. those guys make more sense for Miami than travis and zack, because theyd be getting 5 good prospects instead of 2. they traded reyes, johnson, bhurle, infante, sanchez, and ramirez for lots of prospects in those trade… why not 5 good prosepects for 1 great player???!!! it would be the better trade for them, and the fans, than zack and travis
You probably shouldn’t exclude the leave out the outfield and catching positions when comparing the Mets and Giants’ offenses. Their advantage at catcher is enormous, and you exaggerated our slight advantage at 3rd Base. They have Angel Pagan in Center, we have Collin Cowgill, probably our best outfielder. They have Hunter Pence in Right Field, we have nobody. They have a decent platoon of Torres/Blanco in Left Field, we have Lucas Duda, who can only be average even if he hits because of his atrocious range in left field. The Giants offense is way ahead of the Mets offense, its not even close. The Mets might have had a better rotation with Dickey and Harvey, but without Dickey their rotation is slightly worse even with Wheeler and Marcum. And don’t even get started on the bullpen.
*YAWN*
Not happening for the Mets. No way Sandy gives up that many “top” prospects for a guy who is going to command a 9 figure contract in 2 years. Stanton would be a great piece to the Mets future puzzle, but this isn’t happening. However, I’m sure you guys will have 35 more articles about this until Stanton actually does get traded, a la Michael Bourn.
I can’t access the link from work. Who were the other 3 teams? Seattle, Texas and St. Louis?
Baltimore Orioles, the St. Louis Cardinals, the New York Mets and the Texas Rangers.
Interesting on the Orioles. I’d say Seattle has to be in the mix too, considering what they would have sent to AZ for Upton.
I still find it very, and I mean very hard to believe Miami is gonna trade Stanton right now. In the future maybe, but now? No. I’d be shocked.
I said it before and I will say it again. I love the idea of Wheeler, d’Arnaud on the Mets but you cannot replace a superstar. He’s not 26, 27. He’s 23. He’s going to be the guy we talk about chasing guys like Pujols with their #s. He’s elite. To have him in a Mets uniform would be our honor.
Jessep,
Florida is a strange team and hard to predict any rational behavior. That said, there is a case to be made that they can get the best return for Stanton right now, should they decide not to pay him. At 23, and coming off last season’s numbers while missing significant time, and costing only $500K this year, I don’t know what he could do in 2013 to increase his value. Even if he goes 50/125/.300 and wins the MVP on a bad team, he will then be only controllable for 3 years and the benefit of the 2013 pay will be gone. If I were the Marlins, I would be listening now. They can always say no. I suspect Texas will land him if they will part with Profar, Olt, and some more. It is scary to think how many HR Giancarlo would hit in that ballpark playing a full season.
Something else to think abut…Stanton is a little POed about the firesale..
As time goes on and his frustrations fester he will become more and more someone that Loria will want to get rid of….
We got Piazza for them for much less and he wasn’t an attitude problem at all…
No need to jump with the Marlins on thier first request, No one is very likely to give them everything they want and that Ownership and FO has showed it really has no clue how to value talent and what it’s worth anyway!
He may not go before the season starts they would be smarter to wait for the deadline where desperation of buyers makes the price go up, but he will not be there past this year no matter what they say in the press….
Not sure if u remember…..but Piazza had 10x more negative attention in his last few months than Stanton has now…
that article where Brett Butler bashed him along with other LA reporters calling Piazza moody/selfish were not flattering.
Coincidentally…his book bashes Vin Scully more than Brett Butler…even though Scully never said a word about him….
That was in LA ….no reason for Marlins to sell him off for the scraps they got for him….
He wasn’t a problem there and the reports your talking about in LA are really not all that different than the crap Dick Young wrote when Seaver wanted more money.
jessep… i completly agree. Stanton is one pace to be the next Hank Aaron. If the mets get him without trade wheeler, possibly d’Arnaud, Syndergaard, Fulmer, Montero, and Flores, it would be the greatest trade in Mets, maybe even in NY sports history.
Right. You’d go from talking about “who is our version of derek jeter?” to them saying “who is our Giancarlo?”
No way you trade two of our future stud pitchers AND tge best catching prospect for one outfielder! Stanton’s already had knee problems. I love the guy but that’s gambling away what we have waited so patiently for the last couple years! I’m stoked to see Harvey, wheeler, niese, syndergard and Fulmer/montero/tapia dominate for the next 6-7 years! Pitching wins world series! One home run hitter does not! Ask Barry bonds or Griffey jr!
LOL
ur “top catching prospect” has MORE knee problems
LOL
unreal
Sandy is not going to trade Wheeler or D’Arnaud for Stanton for the simple reason that SP and C are premium positions and his philosophy dictates that you alter a players value based on positional scarcity. You can argue that he is wrong, but that’s what he believes.
Stanton is an intriguing player and he’s young, controllable and one of the best OF in the game, but if the Mets believe that D’Arnaud and Wheeler are going to be future all-stars in the mold of McCann and Hudson for example, then Stanton is not more valuable.
However, if one or both of them are just slightly above average or less then turning down Stanton would wind up being a huge mistake…
Should the Mets make a deal around guys that doesn’t involve d’Arnaud and Flores, you MUST make that deal at all costs. It wouldn’t bother me to sacrifice Wheeler looking at the depth of pitching talent coming up fast.
With Flores it depends on his final position. If he is an MLB 2B, then he becomes much more valuable than a corner infielder.
It also depends on what we have in Murphy and Havens. If Murphy emerges as a top 2B, the Flores is not needed as much. If Havens survives getting cut and has a great (and healthy) year in the minors then we can move Flores as well.
I still think that if Stanton is a Marlin at seasons end, the Mets will absolutely be in sweepstakes for him with an offer comprising of Syndergaard, Flores and the Marlins choice of Fulmer or Montero plus an MLB OF such as Kirk, Den Dekker, Duda…
If he boecomes a viable ML 2B, most likely he is going absolutely nowhere, since that really would be a true case of more valuable to the Mets!
it would also give you the 4th of the positional foundation blocks you need to have a strong starting lineup (5 if you are willing to get in bed with tejada for the LT), assuming TDA works out.
And IMO having the full infield set is a whole lot harder than finding some OFs when you need them.
You are banking on Syndergaard and Flores becoming more established prospects by the end of the year, a bet that could certainly be possible with both players’ rapid progression. Maybe at this point next year, Syndergaard will be a top 10 overall prospect and Flores will be top 50 after tearing up the PCL and having a decent Major League debut.
Think like the Marlins, mmmmm I’m not paying Stanton in arbitration do I am taking the best deal I can, if Mets have to throw in Wheeler wouldn’t Texas have to throw in Profar? Thinking like the Marlins then yes, and the deal the Mariners where sending to Arizona probably ends up being strongly considered as well. The Marlibs thinking is strictly trade Stanton before we have to pay him, every team knows that and will hold off their Wheeler, or Profar until they have.
So if I am thinking like the Marlins I am taking the best deal and if Wheeler or Profar or Taveras is not in the deal there is not much As a Marlin I can do except bluff the other team into thinking that they are in it to drive up the price. Marlins do not have as much leverage as you think. That is thinking as a Narlin like you said. In the end it is extremely likely Whedler Darnaud Do not have to be in the deal given the Mets other prospects might or should I say probably will gain even more value after the 2013.
easy now. When I said to think like the Marlins i wasn’t asking about recent history. Just if you were the Marlins would you ask for Wheeler in this particular case with the Mets. I’m not talking about the Rangers or anything else. Just that one question.
And I think you would.
It comes down to bargaininng position. The Marlins can “name their price” with someone like Stanton, because they dont have to trade him yet and several teams will be competing for his services. In other words, to get Stanton, you have to give up the proverbial farm. And while Stanton is a “cornerstone” building block, you can’t decimate the pitching that this team needs. Otherwise you will give up more in trades, spend more in questionable free agent signings (any pitcher, even a younger one, who signs these days gets way more money and more importantly way more years that can be justified….aka Johan, CC, Felix, etc). In other words, ok, you give up prospects that can help your team in multiple positions, but where have you left things? To me, trading the top 4-5 prospects for Stanton is an Omar move…sure, it’s sexy, gets the back page of the papers, and maybe makes for a day where the beat reporters dont practice their usual forms of self hatred, but one way or another, those guys have to be replaced…and before you know it, the payroll is bloated, the acquisitions questionable, and the team is still not a champion. So let’s take a wide lens view of this….what Mets fans here seem to be hinting at, is we should want the sexy, soon to be pricey guy who will put butts in seats, and win a few extra games in 2013. Yet when 2014 rolls around and you still have Dillon Gee in the rotation, and Santana gone, that somehow this team will still be better than 2013? It just doesn’t add up. It can’t add up, the math isn’t there. And i am not saying he’s a “final piece” kinda guy either, i am just saying that at the end of the day, who will take the place of those we trade? Plawecki? Highly unproven, but better than Thole, no doubt, but where is Francisco Pena? Mejia and Familia take the place of Wheeler and Syndergaard? Uhhhh..i dont think so. I get that some Mets fans want the sexy trades and signings, everything else (including logic and reality) be damned, but as for me, I just want wins, and it seems like getting in a bidding war over Giancarlo Stanton will cost more wins than it will gain, longterm
Well Flowbee they sure can name thier price but I suggest you go to your nearest store and try and name your price to them and see if you actually get it!
You can ask for anything you want but the end value of the player is never more than the highest offer they can get is.
While it is safe to assume that price will be high I guarantee you it will NOT be as high as the price they name and want but more conducive to how much the bidder thinks he is worth not the seller.
The Seller has only two option in cases like these….
Take the best offer given or keep him!
Supply without DEMAND does not command a high price….The Demand is ultimatly more important to setting the final price.
And I don’t know many teams who even have the equivilent of what was mentioned above that would make a deal that would pay that much….Maybe there is but I will wait until some of the suitors start dropping out and what price they drop out at before I give away pretty much two years of Farm purchases.
Thats the point though, to have the “best offer”, you have to pay more than the next guy, no? And if 4 teams are in the position to make the deal, you may not have to give them everything they want, but you do have to give up more than the guy who finishes in 2nd. Logical, no?
Your assuming there is a next guy…..If your the first there is no next guy is there?
Until someone wants to make a corresponding bid.
Why offer the entire team when you can make what you think is a fair offer initially, let them say no and if someone else offers a bit more you can always add to your original bid.
But to come out and say here take every almost ready top prospect I have is just dumb…
Ask what they want and offer less….Tell them you might be willing to give more in other players than the one they want…
But you don’t say HOW MUCH, have them SET THIER price and just say OK Here take it all…
the headline of the article is “Mets are one of 4 teams who can land Giancarlo Stanton” in other words, the Marlins KNOW there is demand for Stanton, and they will call around…they won’t take a deal without knowing what else is out there….they are dumb, not stupid. in other words you HAVE TO assume there is “the next guy” or you will walk home empty handed every time.
Yes it also says no one has MET whatever price they want to set because he is still a Marlin which goes back to my original point the Marlins aren’t setting a damn thing as far as price, the bidders are…The Marlins can ask for the moon until someone say ok here is the moon the Buyer is setting the price.
It may not be as much as the Marlins want!
Well there may or may not be a price at all. I mean we all suspect there is, but it’s far from a proven fact. In reality, your statement is correct on the surface…but on the flip side, it’s also inaccurate, since that presumes that the other teams have made THEIR best offer as well….basically if i were reading between the lines, and “making up the story” (as i think this story is pretty much a fabrication of a bored press). Basically it’s their trade to make, so until someone flinches, there is no bidding war…but to presume that if/when they make it known that they will move him that there won’t be a bidding war, it’s a bit naive’
Ok so tell me what some other team offered that we must offer Wheeler, D’Arnaud AND Snydergaard plus something else….
SHow what that offer is that we MUST give all that away?
Not worth it. The Mets have traditionally won with pitching and they usually have a great catcher on their playoff teams. I’m keeping d’Arnaud and the arms.
Besides, a team like Texas has much more to offer Miami. I see him heading there or somewhere else in the AL like Seattle, who also has a strong farm.
Texas (and Ibelieve Seattle) are in a different position, in having ML ready position guys to trade.
teams never seem to have enough SP, so you can always find room for 1 more. But, if you happen to end up with 2 “star” types that happen to play the same position (with no logical way to use them both by shifting one), then absolutely trading the spare to fill a need at another spot makes sense.
so Texas with 2 SSs is almost wasting a resource, unlike a top SP prospect where you can alsways move someone to the pen if you need room.
so if they are willing to keep elvis and trade Profor, they are in a fantastic position to land a guy like Stanton.
I’m not so sure about “The Met have traditionally won with pitching”. That’s not true.
Yes in the late 60s & 70s the were known for outstanding pitching staffs but they didn’t win much outside of 1969. And in the 80s run, sure they had some good pitchers but that era is mostly defined by great trades for Hernandez & Carter. The 99/00 run? Piazza turned that team around. 2006 I don’t recall it being a stop drop-dead staff either.
You’re right about that. I think Matt’s comment would have held more water if he said that recently, teams are winning based on pitching. Nowadays it doesn’t seem like you can slug yourself to a championship. Maybe to a postseason berth, but once in the playoffs, pitching wins.
To measure Stanton’s value….
would we trade a 23 year old power hitting RF who has put up prodigious numbers for an injury-prone catcher and top SP prospect?
If the answer is no…
then the answer should be YES on the flip side of that equation…
IF Florida accepts Wheeler and Travis…and nothing more….
U JUMP on that…
I dont see Travis being more than a 20 HR .280 hitting catcher who moves to 1B in a few years
Stanton, Duda, and Ike would scare opponents…
and we can always sign a top FA pitcher with the money Freddy Coupons was bragging about having 2 weeks ago
What makes you think Duda will even be around?
Stanton may be on an HOF track, but who cares if we don’t contend with him on the team by, say, 2015. IF we had to give Wheeler, d’Anaud, Flores, Spin, Montero…our 2015 team would be MDD, Tejada, DW, Ike, Stanton, Murphy, Buck, Kirk & a staff of Niese, Harvey, Gee, Fulmer, Syndergaard. There are 2 ‘unknowns’ in the Starting 5. That does not seem to be a legit playoff contending rotation to me.
Unless Miami settles for less, & with Cardinals, Rangers, Mariners in the mix–why expect that–i would not do this deal. To me, Montero is more a ‘known’ at this time than either Syndergaard or Fulmer. Plawecki is at least 3 years away–if ever–and we give up the best catching prospect in baseball?
No thanks.
Hilariously…the same folks who wouldnt trade Wright for prospects…wouldnt trade prospects for Stanton ( a guy who is younger than 1 of those prospects )
the hilarious double-talk is amazing !!!
If Stanton was to be traded to the Mets (highly unlikely, just a theoretical), where would he bat in the lineup? He is not a high average hitter, so David Wright would likely still have the #3 spot. It would seem that Stanton would bat fourth, but it might make more sense to keep it righty-lefty-righty-lefty by putting Davis fourth, giving him lineup protection to help him avoid a slump like last year, and Stanton would rack up the RBI’s from the 5 spot. What do you guys think?
most likely 5th, with Duda behind him, giving the R/L/R/L middle.
basically the same thing that is likely to happen with whoever the best RH power bat they end up starting (Buck until TDA or Flores arrive?) in the 5 hole.
Don’t want stanton if it costs D’Arnuad, Wheeler and Syndegard..Sorry thats way too much..I would give them familia, flores, syndegard..thats it.
If you’re the Marlins and can get Sandy to give up 3 of the Mets top prospects then you do it. If you’re the Mets you look at the trade on paper and throw it in the garbage and move on. Quantity does not equal value. Miami will trade hi just before the trading deadline to maximize their returns.