13
2013
Alderson Says 5th Year Was Big Issue With Signing Bourn
An article by 
Sandy Alderson told reporters that the 5th year option was the big issue with signing Michael Bourn, and also that indications changed whether or not they would keep the 11th pick after an arbitrator ruling. This according to Kevin Burkhardt.
Original Post 2/12/2013
The long and dragged out pursuit is over, and the Mets came up empty. The Cleveland Indians have signed Michael Bourn to a four-year, $48 million dollar deal says Jon Heyman via twitter. The deal has a $12 million option for a potential fifth year. That option vests if Bourn reaches 550 plate appearances in the final year of his deal reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. A team could easily avoid that from happening if they wanted to.
Bourn represents the second blockbuster free agent signed by Cleveland this winter. Nick Swisher inked a four-year, $56 million dollar deal with the Tribe back in January. As a result, their second round pick will be lost to the Yankees for Swisher, and their “competitive balance pick” (around 71st overall) for the signing of Bourn, says Rosenthal via twitter.
The Mets apparently came very close to getting the 30-year old speedster, says Joel Sherman, offering nearly the same four-year deal as the Indians; however it came down to the draft pick issue. The process was reportedly expected to take as long as 2-3 weeks and Bourn could not wait that long, so he opted for the Indians instead.
Ken Davidoff of the Post believes that the Mets played chicken with agent Scott Boras and lost, which puts them in good company but, more relevant for now, keeps the Mets a fourth-place team.
Compared to the B.J. Upton deal for five years and $75.25 million, Bourn’s deal sounds like a steal. Especially considering that Bourn is better than Upton both offensively and defensively.
So with Mets failing to land the 2012 All Star, the Mets will move forward with an outfield lacking major league experience. Lucas Duda will play everyday in left, Kirk Nieuwenhuis and Collin Cowgill will platoon in center, and Mike Baxter in right.
In the end, the outfield that general manager Sandy Alderson mocked and joked about back in Nashville at the Winter Meetings, is the same outfield he’ll start the season with in 2013.
About the Author: Clayton Collier
Clayton, a Long Island native and die-hard Mets fan, started writing online about three years ago. He is currently a Journalism major with a minor in Broadcasting at Seton Hall University. Although very disappointed with the current state of the team, Clayton remains hopeful that the young prospects in the farm system will bring the Mets back to a respected franchise in baseball once again. Besides writing for MMO, Clayton is also a staff member at 89.5 WSOU, Seton Hall's modern active rock radio station. You can contact Clayton by following him on Twitter: @Clayton_Collier or E-mailing him at MaybeNextYearMets@yahoo.com
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 26 | 18 | .591 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 22 | .511 | 3.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 24 | .467 | 5.5 |
| Mets | 17 | 25 | .405 | 8.0 |
| Marlins | 13 | 32 | .289 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/21/2013
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It’s final, mets have a real crapy outfield…
And, I wouldn’t have given Bourn that deal either. He isn’t a 60 million dollar player.
Hmmm Wow, interesting indeed. Great deal by the Indians and the price is right.
Should tell Alderson that losing the draft pick was worth getting Bourn. I hate this GM right now.
Then you should find another team. Because this GM traded a 38-year old for a franchise catcher a Top 50 pitcher and a highly regarded international prospect.
If you can’t be patient, find another team – please. Because the whining is ridiculous.
Hey Matt -
Not sure telling a Mets fan who disagrees with you to find another team is the right approach to a debate.
Saying that we traded a 38 year old for a franchise catcher and a top 50 prospect pitcher is a bit disingenuous – don’t you think?
Firstly, we traded the current Cy Young winner who happens to be a knuckleballer and if you check out the average retirement age of really good knuckleballers you may be surprised to learn that Dickey still has the potential of pitching successfully for 5 more years. We’ll talk in five years to see if I’m right.
About that Franchise Catcher. He has potential to be a good catcher but he is often injured, only playing two full years in his five minor league seasons and he has yet to play in a ML game. I wouldn’t put him in the Hall just yet. Who knows about the “top 50″ pitcher you mentioned – I guess we’ll talk in five years to see if you’re right.
Either way, I’m sure you agree that fans can have a different opinion than yours without having to “find another team”.
Hope you’re well.
Its the whining I can’t stand. I have bashed Sandy Alderson with the best of them. But the reality is, the team is rebuilding and rebuilding requires patience. I know that is exceedingly difficult for NY fans, but you have to see the process through.
Stop crying and realize you are pissed off about a 30-year-old slap hitter that plays good defense. Its not a big deal.
“Stop crying and realize you are pissed off about a 30-year-old slap hitter that plays good defense. Its not a big deal.”
No I think he’s pissed off because the Mets dont have a legitimate Outfielder on the entire team going into next season and the GM is being applauded by some fans for his inability to sign a player whom the GM has said publicly that he wanted and by sources whom reported said GM offered slap hitter the same contract minus the option year.
Rebuilding requires a mixture of young players AND veterans…not collecting prospects year in and year out….
if we are “rebuilding”, why hasnt Sandy even changed the training staff? the guys that have routinely botched up injury after injury?
why hasnt he even changed the pitching coach?
why would he play Lucas Duda in a position not best for him or the team?
there is a difference between being cheap and being efficient….
Sandy offered Dickey a 2 year 14 mil deal…
had Dickey signed it, we dont get Travis or those other prospects…and Josh Thole is our starting catcher…
had Jason Bay not come to the Mets and offer to defer salary so he can escape NY, our lineup next year is identical to the one last year…except we dont have Torres and Hairston in the OF
remember that “flexibility” we were supposed to have with K-Rod coming off the books…
who did we use it on?
O, I forgot, everyone was overpriced and nobody was worth investing in…
cut and paste that line for every off-season Sandy is GM…because right now, his biggest free-agent signing was 3 months after he came on board in 2010…and that guy’s name is Frank Francisco..
Hi Matt,
One thing about re-building. No team has to take the steps the Mets are doing to achieve that. It is not that they do not already have a young core on the major league level – their infield is set, they have the young rotation, they have on the horizon the catcher you mention. They also have a few pitching arms in the minors. What is still preventing them from now trying to get the other pieces of the puzzle from outside sources?
As so many of us pointed out, if the Mets wanted to take these next steps but did not want to do it at the expense of losing their first round draft pick, they would had plenty of time to petition MLB before October31 when the ten protected teams were announced publicly because privately all teams are informed of such information prior to such information being released to the public. Why didn’t they then – or at least in late November when the agreement to re-finance their loans was being settled – and would put them back onto enough stable financial footing to allow them to now re-invest in the team (as some believe is the case based on words but not actions).
Instead they continued going after inexpensive and physically questionable free agents and signed others to minor league contracts with an invite to spring training. The same path they have taken the past two seasons.
We also could have tried to retain some of the young veterans that we did have – Pagan and Reyes alone would have made us a much more formidable opponent.
No team that seriously wanted to build itself back into a competitor for many a year down the road has taken the limited steps that the Mets have. They took these steps in combination with others – free agent signings and trades. They didn’t wait until the nucleus was deemed developed. And if we still wait until a nucleus is deemed about ready, does that mean besides the time we have already waited for Davis, Dee, Parnell, Neise, Murphy, Tejdada and Duda to develop further we will then wait again for Harvey, Wheeler, d’Arnaud, Mejia, Familia, Valdy, Baxter and Nimmo?
It’s a question of when does one stop waiting and does something when it is apparent that there are some important holes that we do not have the youngsters coming up to fill and need to look to outside sources to find them.
Is it that we don’t have the money to do so? Fine, but then that means there are motives beyond just re-building that are responsible for the moves taken and the moves that haven’t. And as noted on other posts, hardly any team has been successful building up a strong team on a shoestring budget.
Rebuilding takes many steps whereas saving money takes only one.
Matt i totally agree with you!!! I think these mets fans are getting rediculous and really do need to find a new team and cry somewhere else, Sandy in my opinion is doing a great job rebuilding this team and not pissing money away like minaya did on non performers!!!! I love the NY METS and back them up 110% on most everything they do, we will eventually be world champs once again in the next few years and the same people crying that this team sucks will be the same ones chearing that there team is the best!!! And who was the one that helped get us there which i hope he will still be the gm Mr Sandy Alderson!!! You fans are worse than any fan base i have seen, what you need to do is back your team up 100% no matter the circumstance then call yourself a true fan to your team!!!!
Totally on target, Bobby. SD stated when he got here it was going to take some time and he talked about his process, rebuilding the farm, bringing prospects along,etc. OBVIOUSLY cutting payroll was critical to the owners (I am NOT defending them; I think they s*ck, frankly) and that has been an ongoing consideration. But Sandy knew what he was getting into and has developed an approach. The whiners want it all and they want it yesterday. I love R.A. more than anyone but watching him dealt was not the same thing to me as letting Strawberry walk or dealing Tom Seaver. I understood the Reyes decision (how many complaints about that one these days?). I’ve never been a fan of long term FA contracts although I think they can be justified here and there. Some of them make some sense and I think that when the time is right Sandy will pull the trigger to get the last couple of pieces in place.
I mean, how many washout “name” free agent contracts do we have to put up with before people figure out that they rarely work to your advantage for more than a year or two (if at all, Jason Bay anyone?) and that the money angle is almost always an accountant’s nightmare in the end.
So give me those younger players any day of the week. And Sandy? STAY THE COURSE.
Matt – well stated.
Yet ,Sandy did allow two GG lead-off hitters slip through the Mets grasp, Reyes & Bourn.
Notwithstanding, I trust that Alderson’s patience and adherence to a team philosophy and policy of not throwing away top draft picks will pay huge dividends soon enough. And he’ll still have money at his disposal for the right centerfielder at the right time and for the right price.
Of course, Michael Bourn would have solved two issues at once, but it’s a hefty price to pay for a CF entering his 30′s by a cash-strapped team recovering from poor production to a number of players that received large contracts. Within that context, Alderson’s conservative approach was wise, albeit not what everyone wanted.
I respect his decision to secure the draft pick at the cost of losing Bourn. It’s not as if he didn’t try.
With all due respect to Jose Reyes, he hasn´t even been an average defender at SS for the past couple of seasons. Still catches a lot of pop flyballs that others won´t and still has a cannon of an arm. But his range on groundballs has been below average for years (and in that case, the generally questionable fielding stats support what the naked eye sees).
It doesn´t change the notion, of course, that Reyes is a top 3 in Baseball offensive SS and – combined with fringe average defense – certainly a very valuable player that was let go for way too little (or should have been re-signed if not traded).
Hey bro -once again I couldn’t disagree with you more Fred and Saul got a bit greedy and played a game of monopoly with the Mets finances. It all came tumbling down when their financial enabler, Madoff showed them that their Monopoly money wasn’t real.
Fred almost loses the team but is bailed out by former small market owner and current comish Selig who says Fred can keep the club as long as he brings in small market expert Sandy who trades everything that costs money when he’s not letting valuable players walk. Small market mentality has infected the team in the world’s largest market.
Do you really believe that Sandy was brought in to fix the team or was he brought in to fix the team’s finances so Fred doesn’t have to sell? Big difference.
But go ahead and trust Sandy.
I don’t.
Hi Tl,
The problem is when we make these points and in more specific detail we are told we twist things around to see things only the way we want to. Don’t mind being accused of that but do mind when others don’t see that in themselves as well . The answer is always quite philosophical but not pragmatic based on the deciphering of evidence – factual or circumstantial. Rather, the answer is usually based on an unshakable belief and faith . The only answer from those on the other side of the fence that I can consider is wanting to give Sandy a bit more time to show whether or not he was sincere in what he was saying. That is fair enough for at least it shows a willingness to see both sides of the issue.
We feel, however, that there has been enough time and evidence to reach that conclusion.
When it comes down to looking at the facts, they are simply avoided. Like the point about Sandy Alderson’s credentials – are they of a baseball planner or of a chief executive officer in charge of finance?
I totally agree Matt….
People that are always complaining about Sandy this and Wilpon that … find another team. The Braves and GNats are super popular now and their front office seems to make better choices than the Mets. If you live in NY, you could vote for the Stanks and Phillis … they’re in the same vicinity and still pretty competitive too. Tons of people love those guys.
There wasn’t much I could do about Bourn, RA and Beltran, and besides, I’ll still take the young guys and all the wows/woes they’ll provide. I still vote for the Mets no matter what.
Hooray for spring training! LGM!
Thanks for having enough good sense about this situation. It’s one thing to want a good team now but the reality is that we have been rebuilding from the bottom up and it takes time!
Past history good and bad shows that whether you are involved with trading players or signing Free Agents that one side is usually dealing from strength while the other side from weakness.
Look at the Dickey trade. Sandy A left the emotional factor in the dust. He knew that Dickey had huge trade value to any teams on the cusp of reaching the playoffs. He wanted the best catching prospect out there and Toronto had depth at that position behind T.D. When he saw that Toronto was willing to trade T.D, Sandy pushed harder and wanted Noah Syndergard a lower level minor leaguer with big credentials. The results…..Toronto is one step closer and the Mets filled one hole now having Buck who provides more pop than Thole and T.D. when ready ……and added to their stable of young stud pitchers! I hate the word “if” but this deal could be the Deal of the Century!
Unfortunately, Sandy is not dealing from strength with the other issues needed to be addressed. A lot of question marks will be addressed during spring training this year. The goal of the organization is to develop a young nucleus of players that are headed by a dominant pitching staff. I think we are doing fine as far as that goes.
We need that Duda, Capt Kirk and Baxter step up their growth now to be serviceable outfielders. Obviously they are not going to make anyone forget Mays, Mantle or Aaron but as the money situation improves a better outfielder can be had.
Michael Bourne was not worth the kind of money he was asking for and Sandy was not going to risk his # 1 pick….
for me……I am thrilled that Sandy stayed away from a Scott Boros client. Boras is a snake and has screwed us and every other team in the past with his brand of negotiations.
I wish that more of the people here would accept the fact that we are still not ready to be a playoff team yet. The bad guys are still the owners who screwed up badly. Their salvation was Sandy A and he is doing the job. His goal was to slash the payroll, build a pitching staff and to “survive” until the rebuilding is complete. I hated the idea that it came down to this but no matter how pissed we are about the Wilpon’s they are not selling.
Do I care if the attendance is low? Nope!
If the team begins to show promise and they stay around .500 people will go to Citi Field.
Santana’s 30 million is and has been an albatross for us. We are free from it next year. If he shows anything at all then we will see him gone by the trading deadline. There is always a team in need of a starting pitcher for the playoff run. How much he brings back is almost irrelevant.
The N.Y. Mets will no longer get sucked into long term risky deals especially for pitchers, for aging fat cats or for injury prone players!
Matt…..don’t let the haters get you down!
Hi Alan,
But you are forgetting one thing. Few of us are saying we are a playoff team at this time with the addition of certain key free agents – though we do also have faith in the young players that this would actually not be out of the question even in 2013. What we are are saying is that more realistically with these signings along with the young kids developing we will be that much closer to becoming a playoff team, which is the goal.
The free agent crop the past two seasons had many fine choices for us to pursue – young, credible relievers and outfielders with power. The perfect type of player to compliment a young, growing team. Next season the type of players we need – outfielders and relievers – are all of an older stock. Those who are young have not shown to be that productive (while that could change with 2013 being a breakthrough year – which could also mean just a one-time career year as well, i.e., Andres Torres in 2010 for the Giants).
The team could have grown together this year. Indeed, had moves been made based on talent instead of not wanting to spend last winter, it is a valid argument this team could have really surprised many past the first half of the year. They were leading the wild card at the all-star break without a bullpen and with Ike Davis only starting to show coming out of a season long slump due to that valley fever, etc. Imagine the bullpen had they had signed, for example, just one viable closer like a Broxton, etc. along with Francisco (moved to middle relief). Imagine out outfield had they not traded Pagan for Riveria and Torres (a move I still believe was financial in nature – getting two players for just $400k more than the price of one).
In addition, Gee was injured but Sandy said that winter that he was holding back spending so he could have a contingency budget to spend during the summer in anticipation of just such an event. What happened?
That’s not looking back in hindsight in 2013 – that’s looking ahead back in the winter of 2011/12.
That’s why rebuilding is not as simple as obtaining prospects and letting them develop along with others already in the farm system. There are many other steps that one has to abide to which includes already having a core of young players already on the roster (which they have), not getting rid of them when they are in their final year of arbitration and then approaching free agency (like they did with Pagan), retaining good but older players to be slowly replaced by those coming up (which they didn’t), going after key free agents that would fit in (which they haven’t) and not feeling they have to keep every good prospect they have instead of trading one or for more established players.
DMETS, I’M NOT GOING TO RISK INSULTING U BY ASKING MY INITIAL THOUGHT AFTER READING YOUR COMMENT WHICH WAS, “IS THIS GUY 12?
INSTEAD I’M GOING TO PRESUME U ARE A RELATIVLY YOUNG FAN &AS SUCH, I WELCOME U WITH OPEN & UNDERSTANDING ARMS
I ACCEPT THIS FRANCHISE, I’VE LOVED FOR 50+ YEARS NEEDS AS MANY YOUNG BLOODS AS THEY CAN ILLOGICALLY GET
AS IT STANDS TODAY, I AM GUILTY OF PASSING THIS MET DISEASE ONTO MY DAUGHTER[43], MY SON[21] & MY GRANDSO[16]N IN DOING SO I HAVE ATTEMPTED USING MY BEST EFFORTS TO INCLUDE THE ENDLESS PATIENCE THIS FRANCHISE HAS ALWAYS DEMANDED AS WELL AS A HUGE CAPACITY FOR WITHSTANDING HEARTBREAK.. AS SUCH, I CERTAINLY HOPE THE #3 IN YOUR MONIKER INDICATES U ARE THE THIRD SELECTOR OF THE TITLE AND NOT THIS IS YOUR THIRD SEASON AS A MET ROOTER, OBVIOUSLY YOU AREN’T 3 YRS OLD DESPITE THE TONE OF YOUR IMPETUOUS RESONSE. YOUR SPELLING IS TOO GOOD FOR A THREE YR OLD.[LMAO]
DMETS, BE REASSURED WE HAVE A GM WITH PRINCIPLES WHO TALKS & WALKS THE SAME PHILOSOPHICAL IDEALS. TAKE COMFORT IN BEING ABLE TO COUNT ON SOMETHING Re THIS FRANCHISE, EVEN IF IT’S ONLY THE GM’s SINCERITY & HONESTY
IMO, I CERTAINLY HOPE SELIG & THE PA RESOLVE THIS POTENTIALLY DISASTROUS COMPENSATION FOR UNSIGNED GUARANTEED PICKS ISSUE BY REWORKING THE PLAN FROM PICK #10 TO PICK #11 IN THE FOLLOWING DRAFT.
SIMPLY IF THE INTENT IS GUARANTTEEING THE SECURITY OF THE DRAFT POSITIONS HELD BY THE WORST 10 RECORDS THAN CONTINUITY SHOULD BE PRESERVED BLOCKING FUTURE INSERTIONS INSIDE THE 10.
DUE TO THIS COMPENSATION REISSUANCE OF DRAFT POSITION THIS UPCOMING DRAFT THE PIRATES WILL SELECT @ BOTH #10 & #17.
THIS WAS NOT, AS SOME NY PRESS ACCOUNTS INDICATE A “MOVING UP” OF THE BUCOS POSITION; BUT THE INSERTION OF AN ADDITIONAL REPLACMENT SELECTION FOR FAILING TO INK THEIR PRIOR YR SELECTION.
SURELY IT IS MUCH MORE IN KEEPING WITH THE INTENT OF PROTECTING 1-10 BY CHOOSING #11 AS THE INSERTION POINT OF COMPENSATION PICKS. LEFT AS WRITTEN THIS IS A POTENTIAL ONGOING HINDERANCE TO IMPROVMENT BY THE MOST NEEDY TEAMS.
TRULY NO LOGICAL ANALYSIS COLULD EVER SHOW BOURNE ON THE METS ALTERS THEIR LOGICAL 4th PLACE FINISH AS MICHAEL BOURNE, TO ANYONE OTHER THAN BORAS & HIS MOMMA, IS NOT A SEASON CHANGING CALIBER TALENT.
I disagree that the price is right.
Yeah, can’t see this FO going 4 years guaranteed, with an option for a 5th.
Agreed. MLBN guys laughing at the fact he still got 4/48 with an easy option, that it was the Indians and that Mets fans care. Dodged a bullet.
They were in mix to the end…probably offered 4/40 but wouldn’t bend over for Boras…
I don’t blame them.
Cue the Sandy bashing.
Famous last words: Outfield? What outfield?
Now that Bourn has signed if the reports are true and barring some trade before the season starts the Mets GM did a poor job in addressing the outfield.
I’ve always maintained that I felt Kirk would be 1 of the outfielders and I can understand Duda will get a shot mainly due to his power and hitting potential but unless say Brown and Cowgill turn out to be the 2013 version say of the 2012 Pagan the Mets will be left looking at players like Spin and Den Dekker to fill the void.
In a word, blah.
I think we should wait a couple of months before declaring this outfield a bust.
Left – Duda/Turner
CF – Kirk/Cowgill
RF – Brown/Baxter
We’ll hold our own defensively in CF & RF. LF will be a bit of an adventure, but I think Duda isn’t quite as bad as many of his critics say.
I really wanted our team to take a run at the Giants CF prospect Gary Brown and Toronto/Miami prospect Jake Marisnick. Perhaps there’s a deal to be had.
Frankly, I’m really glad we preserved the 11th pick. Perhaps we should call Omar for some suggestions as to the draft selection, something at which he is uniquely skilled.
One other thing about this year’s outfield – we won’t have to wait for JayBay to come around or sit through another 4-for-51 slump by Torres. Addition by subtraction.
WAIT? Uh, like we were supposed to wait to see how Sandy improves the outfield this off-season???
Well newsflash we waited and as most suspected he wouldnt and he didnt….And this Outfield will suck Balls big time….dont need a crystal ball or Ms. Cleo to tell you that.
Are you sure of that idea that you will publicly announce that you will donate everything you own to charity if they do not suck? Since you have a crystal ball, please let us know. And, while you are at it, where will the DJIA be come October.
MLB would never have protected that pick. They aren’t going to set that precedent one year into the CBA.
Thank god.
Michael Bourn is the wrong player at the wrong time.
COMPLETELY agree !!!
Matt Mosher January 24, 2013 at 4:31 pm
Bottom line…..Michael Bourn is a legitimate major-league outfielder that fills three holes…centerfielder, leadoff man, base stealer. I’m in.
Matt Mosher January 24, 2013 at 4:41 pm
Agreed….he wont get anywhere near 5 and 74. I’d bet 4 and 55.
You sure flip-flopped on this issue Matt.
Why?
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/alderson-says-he-could-go-to-camp-with-current-outfielders.html
Matt Mosher come back and answer the question. lol
I wanted him at first. The more I thought about it, I changed my mind. Are we not allowed that right now?
LOL
the more u thought about it = lets see what Sandy does and just agree with whatever direction he takes
And yes…..dont bother finding posts where I said I didn’t want the guy. Cherry picking proves your point better. You should work for MSNBC.
When did you change your mind? At 8:19 PM tonight? lol
.Matt Mosher February 5, 2013 at 6:58 pm .
I really, really do not want Bourn. I’m telling you, if they sign him a) MLB will NOT protect that pick and b) it will be a bad contract by the end of it.
Anything else, or do you have school in the morning?
He’s not smart enough to work for MSNBC but he’d fit right in at Fox. Give him an agenda that defies reason and ignores history and set him loose.
Sort of the wrong time as they are rebuilding, but he would have been the right player in a questionable OF. Wrong in the sense of his agent and what he wanted.
I’m a bit apprehensive about the Cowgill/Nieuwenhuis combo as they both have big ???s, but whatever.
If I am not mistaking does that not make the Indian with about 6- 7 outfielders. that could free up one in a trade.who was saying that 12 Mil would not get Him. I is getting less then what Atlanta offered him to start. not the first time.
Damn I wanted Bourn… Great move by the Tribe though, I didn’t expect to see him go to Cleveland after they signed Swisher and Reynolds.
Well at least we can now dispense with the dog and pony show.
Thank god.
It was the miser and the con man
You could see that Monsieur Alderson truly did not love the Mademoiselle of Bourne
And now the Mademoiselle of Bourne
has found another suitor and has rung the chapel bell
C’est la vie say Met fans, it goes to show it was indeed a dog and pony show
No one knows if the pick caused this folks…
Probably was price. Is it a fair deal? Probably, but for that cash I’d want some power behind it.
I can’t be upset with this.
Yes, the outfield sucks though.
Four years and $48mil, we couldn’t beat that offer? Hot in Cleveland.
The option is a killer.
What are the terms of the option?
oh never mind
Option is a killer? 12M based on 550 PA? Why is that a killer?
Why would we want to beat that.
We are better off w/o him at that price and 4 years.
Cue the suck-up brigade and excuses.
^^^^^
THIS!
Most of us already know Sand-Man wasnt gonna sign Bourne it was just another smoke screen to make it seem as if the Mets and Sandy were doing there due diligence. Now whenever anyone mentions the terrible job he did in fixing the Outfield he’ll say he tried but the price was too steep and he wasnt willing to mortgage the future. We’ve seen this movie already…lol…
And so it goes. By tomorrow we will have no less than 25 reasons why this is great for the Mets. Unreal. Well here to mud on the face of all that baloney that the Mets were a lock the later this went on.
Only 25? LMAO! Try 250!
I knew it was all just a charade all along.
The Mets pursuit was no charade. They had a legit 4 year offer on the table.
If they spent 48 mil plus a vesting option, the Sandy bashers would’ve killed him for it. Just like they’re gonna kill him for not forfeiting the pick to make this deal happen.
no, it actually would represent the total opposite of what he has been doing so far…
But instead it’s the Sandy lovers are the ones who are on full frontal parade. Go figure.
Puma Tweeted”
Mets had Bourn in agreement on years and $$, but negotiations were down to small details such as a hotel suite on the road.
The fact that they were looking at weeks to resolve the pick issue seems to be the reason why Bourne chose Cleveland.
It doesnt bother me one way or another; I was torn to begin with. While Bourn is better than what is there, he isnt that great. He is a good player, that is all.
Again, outside of Hamilton, there was no FA OF who was a slam dunk.
Yea saw that. He mentions the Mets deal was basically done and that his 1st choice was the Mets but didn’t want to wait weeks for the draft pick issue to be resolved.
Though as usual I take anything Puma says with a half a grain of salt until someone else comes out also supporting those same claims.
Sorry hit submit by accident was going to add that even then depending on the other reports I have reservations.
Task, Sherman is also reporting along the same lines as Puma now.
2d source confirms #Mets made a 4yr offer to Bourn. #Indians
#Mets offer to Bourn was 4 yrs with no options at the same $48M range he got from #Indians
#Mets say we’re informed by MLB arb would take 2-3 wks to settle and with spring training here Bourn could not wait, so took #Indians deal
https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1
Here is what Rubin is reporting.
@AdamRubinESPN
I’m told the #Mets did have a four-year offer to Bourn but would not have done it without the draft pick being protected.
@AdamRubinESPN
Grievance may have taken couple of weeks. Boras wanted to jump now at #Indians offer because it may have gone away by time of #Mets verdict.
@AdamRubinESPN
Person who knows of #Mets involvement believes Michael Bourn preferred NY, which had same monetary offer.
https://twitter.com/AdamRubinESPN
Finally here is what Heyman is saying.
@JonHeymanCBS
#mets offered $48M for 4 yrs, so they were close. Went to mlb today and found draft-pick issue would have to go to grievance
@JonHeymanCBS
#mets wouldn’t do deal w/o retaining draft pick. Tough for bourn to wait on mets grievance, as it could take days/weeks
@JonHeymanCBS
Reason #mets didn’t request draft-pick issue to be resolved sooner is belief price would rise omce public pressure mounted
Them’s the facts jack! No charade, no misleading but yet there are still Doomsday preppers. The price was about what I thought was reasonable……….even though I didn’t really care if they signed him or not.
Hate to sound all diabolical, but I’m not buying the Mets on any of this. Never did. Can you really make an offer much less come close to an agreement when you openly stated you were not going to lose your #11 pick, wanted the MLB to change a new CBA rule one year later, and oh yeah…never filed an official grievance. Playa please.
Honestly I think if Boras, Bourn and Alderson went in front of Congress and under oath said they indeed worked and were in agreement on said years and numbers followed that with video of them saying as much some still would not believe it so it is what it is. People will believe what they will.
Only it’s not about people believing what they will…it’s about this dog and pony show making fools of us all. Your scenario sounds like a legit…oh yeah, look at the proof and you still don’t believe. Mine is…look at the truth, and see the light. Sandy and the Mets can say anything they want, tell their beat reporters any truths they want…fact is…they also said they weren’t interested in losing their first round pick (and consequently the allotment money), they never filed an official grievance with MLB (really, how hard would that have been?? I would’ve done it just to make the dog and pony show more fun), and oh yeah…there’s that whole changing a newly minted CBA…one year later. Like I said, playa please.
You believe that it is a dog and pony show therefore for you it is. It is what it is.
the fact that the mets KNEW their draft pick was unprotected as far back as August ( when the Pirates missed the deadline to sign their draft pick ) and never once filed a petition with the league pretty much tells me they had no intention of giving up that pick.
We are talking about a Harvard trained no-nonsense military Army lawyer….
I think he knows the rules..
What he is not good at is lying or pretending…
the problem is, being a GM for the mets means you have to do that almost every time you speak to the public.
The amount of people who believe in Sandy is dwindling with every off-season he repeats the same BS
It’s almost over…
Hi Just,
Of course. If they didn’t want to wait those two to three weeks for a decision to be made, why did they wait two to three months and still not get the ball rolling?
As said, if the draft pick was the stumbling block and the Mets were otherwise sincere then it shows that their general manager – the astute legal and financial expert and former MLB Executive of the Year – played this one like an amateur. I hardly think that was the case. But I think he played an outstanding game of poker, gambling that Boras wouldn’t call his bluff and accept that offer non-guaranteed while the organization itself was milking it for all the publicity they could.
What would have happened if the Mets did sign Bourn contingent upon that ruling? If it went against them, how would it look after the fact – literally getting rid of Bourn for a protected draft pick selection?
I would have loved for the Mets to have signed Bourn if anything to just see what they would have done had their eventual appeal been rejected. And to then see the reaction of the fan base as well.
Yes the present outfield is not the best. Maybe we will find that there is a diamound in the ruff here with polish and buffing. We can only wish and dream. Would Bourn have become another Jason Bay for the Mets thru Injuries or be a cancer for the team? What is available in the trade market possibly for cheap low players.
We can trade Kirk straight up for Alfonso Soriano and have him play 2B again, platooning with Daniel Murphy !
it works on the statsheet !
Sandy’s a girls name. Sandy Bigelow Patterson.
I dont have a problem with Spin being given a chance. He is highly talented, perhaps the Mets need to see if it translates at the major league level.
Or the Black Cloud Battalion and all ridiculous hating.
i was wrong. i thought we’d get him. The 4 yrs / 48 is ‘long’ but okay, but how does the option work? Is it a player option. Then, it’s way too much for too long. Plus, i bet he can opt out if he and the market’s hot…+ no comp pick…all vintage Boras.
It is a vesting option. If he hits 550 PAs, he gets the last year. Remember the looming fear of Bay and Rodriguez?
there was no looming fear with Bay…
all you have to do is hit Bay 6th or 7th…or platoon him…and his poor production warrants that…
and if Bourn was that bad, u can bat him 8th…
stop lying..
Jon HeymanVerified account
@JonHeymanCBS
#mets were in the mix until the very end on bourn. #whatoutfield?
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
Mets had Bourn in agreement on years and $$, but negotiations were down to small details such as a hotel suite on the road.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
Bourn probably would have accepted 4-year offer from Mets, I’m told, except it would have taken 2-3 weeks to resolve draft pick issue.
This is a killer. The Mets and Bourn basically had an agreement on years and money, but it ended up being the draft pick issue that hurt them. That’s very upsetting. The Indians didn’t even blow him out of the water with money or years. I bet the Mets offer was on par with this one…
Two things upset me about this:
1) Mets/Alderson didn’t appeal (that we know at least) until this week. They didn’t fight hard enough to get this done quicker.
2) MLB’s refusal to make a ruling until the two sides (Mets, Bourn) reached an agreement. Obviously they were trying like hell to avoid making a ruling.
Props for not going into salvage mode. My respect for you just shot through the ozone layer, kid!
Proof positive evidence of the front office doing what they’ve been doing every single offseason since they were hired and that’s dragging their feet, kicking tires, waiting the market, and blah, blah, blah. And while the FO has been dragging their feet, kicking tires, etc. all under the false guise of “patience” other front offices have been swooping right in and getting their men.
I mean even Michael Bourne gets tired of them waiting, LMAO! I mean, c’mon!
This is exactly what a lot of us have been complaining about for 3 straight off seasons. I wasn’t crazy about Bourne myself but the money was cool and he makes them better NOW. He helps a young pitching staff that needs as much good defense as they can get. He’s not the greatest lead off hitter but he helps make the top of the lineup more versatile and he’s a veteran MAJOR LEAGUER. Not to mention the ground he would have covered in centerfield.
He may not be a major star but he would have been an important addition to this particular unit of players. And for you “wilpons have no money” clowns, the money was settled, there and ready. Waiting for the draft pick blew this. It was execution by the general manager that cost the Mets some wins tonight.
wow that is crazy, but I have to say I would not have wanted to have given him 48 million over 4 years, with an option.
$60 million….no thank you
Hi Connor,
Glad to see you are asking the right questions, going beyond the financial offer but to the reasons why it wasn’t accepted.
Hi Clayton,
My apologies for addressing you as Connor which is not your last name at all. Wanted to properly address you by your first name and not in the rude manner it accidentally came across as by not proof-reading the salutation.
Sherman tweet:
Mets offer to Bourn was 4 yrs with no options at the same $48M range he got from #Indians
That might explain why the player union started to look into the draft issue. Seems like they key parts in years and money were agreed to.
WoooHooooo !!!
THANK GOD WE DID NOT MAKE THIS DEAL !!!!!
Best news Ive heard ALL minter !!
Is it the terms that bothered you, or Bourn himself?
The whole package, Boras, the 4 years & his numbers offensively.
Fair enough. I would have jumped at the guaranteed offer. I think it was very fair. The option was a killer and I’m glad the Mets not only had a fair deal in place but also didn’t overpay. I wish they were a bit more forceful in getting MLB to rule sooner.
I dont think the risk would have been a worthwhile one.
2 years, yes, 3 years acceptable….anything more – no.
IMO I dont think hes such a difference maker that the Mets should leverage the future by hog tyiing all that money for that many years.
His offensive numbers are NOT what an ideal leadoff man numbers should be. His numbers are more conducive to what you might see ina #7 hitter. His OBP isnt good enough, he strikesout too much & he doesnt walk enough. He gets caught stealing at too high a rate also.
We may very well be able to mold one of our kids into having his type of numbers, or better, w/o spending all that money.
I can’t argue about the OBP an the strikeouts, but you’re mistaken about the caught stealings. He’s got an 81% career success rate. And also plays great defense, which can’t be ignored.
Yup, he can certainly cover ground in CF, but I dont think hes the player that would have put us over the top in any of the next 4 years.
It seems like Den Dekker can be up to par defensivey, and Bourns offensive numbers arent impossible to match by either MDD or Kurt.
Ive got my fingers crossed on that.
I just think we could spend 12M a year more effectively.
The 81% CS is good, I thought it was worse.
I agree with You Joe. 27-30 mil for 3 yrs would be my limit for Bourn. Nice player but not worth 12 a year and 4 years was too long for my liking. Cleveland will be looking to move him midway thru the 4 years, along with Swisher.
and now u pay the cost of NOT having a leadoff hitter or a certified CF…
JDD, Im just not totally sold on that.
Hes not REALLY a lead-off hitter and although he can cover ground & get good jump on balls off the bat, hes just slightly a better defender than Kurt.
Remember, the Mets didnt send Kurt down for his defense, they became unenamored with him because of his fatigued bat.
He CAN play a good CF, and word is that MDD is a better defender in the OF than him.
So if we can keep Kurts bat energized and maybe in the #7 hole and lead-off Valde-Spin, we may be just as well off w/o the $12M price tag.
Yeah, I cant fathom what the he!! the Indians are thinking with all those OF’s and money spent on a strange collection of players.
They may be working on a trade somewhere.
You think the Indians will consider trading Stubbs or Brantley?
Who the heck is Kurt?
LoL, I’m going to guess and say he means Kirk Nieuwenhuis.
Lol, yeah Kirk…sorry, too many vodka & 7up’s..
LOL, that explains it Joe, and I love your site.
MNJ would you even want Stubbs? Brantley is eh. Stubbs is a K machine that rarely gets on base.
That’s certainly disappointing but not that shocking.
it goes to show once again how sandy bullshit us again along with the wilpons, i knew they had us beleiving the mets fans hope, but now they sandy and wilpons suck, you both killed our hopes of having someone leadoff and gives us something we need, i’m sorry but i’m so mad, overa pick when we need to now, now for our fans, so sorry evryone but they suck.
Don’t blame Sandy, how can anyone expect the Mets to compete with a big market team like the Indians?
That’s very funny!
Jonathan,
Are you the chef?
I can promise you that Collin Cowgill will have a higher WAR than Bourn in 2013, and defensively Bourn was way overrated.
On PS3 or XBox ?
You guys complaining about Bourn’s deal and being grateful the Mets didn’t sign him for it being an awful deal do realize that Pagan makes $10m per year and Victorino gets 13m per year? Bourn at $12m per is a steal for a lead off hitter/gold glove centerfielder.
I think the Mets had him but he couldn’t wait on the draft pick dilemma to pan out.
The last year option was iffy, but overall compared to comp. outfielders, it wasn’t too bad.
Well Pagan is overpaid, Victorino arguably is as well. But Pagan was for 4/40 and Victorino is 3/39, Bourn was at least 4/48 and a good shot at 5/60. Thats a lot of years and money for a guy who’s biggest asset are his legs. Plus, big plus here, it is likely the Mets would have lost their number 11 pick.
That is a big premium over either Pagan or Victorino.
We may not think they’re worth that money but the market set the price and if they got paid that money, Bourn at $12m per year is comparatively a steal.
I wouldn’t have balked at 4/48 and apparently neither did the Mets. But 5/60 and/or losing the 11th pick would have been a step too far for me.
Good – now we can move on and continue with our youth movement. He wasn’t the right guy anyway – if Sandy’s going to dish out a wad of cash it needs to be for a right-handed power bat, smack in the middle of the lineup. This year is still about growing from within – then next year add another big bat and a closer and we should be good to go…
Were you, by any chance, thinking of the right handed power bat that Alderson wouldn ‘t give 2 million a year to over 2 years? The guy with the highest SLG Ave. on the Mets in 2012, and 20 home runs in only 377 at bats. What was his name, again? Oh, yeah, I remember. Scott Hairston.
Can’t say I’m sad to see Bourn go elsewhere. The Indians are going to lead MLB in strikeouts…..by their hitters. They’ve now acquired 4 of the most K prone hitters in baseball: Nick Swisher (140+), Drew Stubbs (160+), Mark Reynolds (150+), and Michael Bourn (155). And two of those have at least once topped over 200 K’s in a season-Reynolds & Stubbs. Well, at least Indian fans behind home plate will have some air conditioning in the home half of innings with all the swinging and missing that will be going on. Can only imagine that pitching rich teams like Tampa Bay, Toronto, and LA Angels will love facing this bunch of free swingers this year! I, for one, am glad the “Bourn idiocy” surrounding the Mets is over with.
Part of me wanted Bourn because it would have been nice to have a bonified Major Leaguer in the outfield.
But, the way this team has been gutted I doubt it would have made a difference.
On a bigger note:
Boras’ days of running amuck are over.
Bourn could have gooten this type of deal w/o giving that snake-oil salesman Boras’ 15%
Hell, he waited until Feb 11 for 4/$48M ???
This is a huge Boras failure, if I were Bourn I would NOT sign a commission check for Boras.
He could have gotten more $$ & yeras months ago from the Cowards, ooppss, I mean Braves.
Just because other players, Pagan & Vic, got overvalued deals doesnt mean they should be seen as measuring sticsk as to what Bourn should have gotten.
So even Bourne got tired of this draft pick nonsense. LOL.
Go be miserable in Cleveland Michael. The Mets were your first choice and also offered 4 yrs and 48MM. the 5th year option is not that valuable. A team can easily wiggle their way out of that as the Mets would have done with Bay this year if he was still around by limiting your PA in the last guaranteed year of the contract. And Michael, you waited this long to sign- what was another 2 weeks to resolve the Mets draft pick issue unless Boras felt it wasn’t going to go the Mets way. It’s all about that last red penny to Boras and his reputation.
What if two weeks from now MLB had said no to the Mets keeping the #11 pick. The Mets then tell Bourn, no deal. Maybe the Indians offer is now off the table. Where would that leave Bourn? He couldn’t risk that.
In the end the Mets it looks like were not willing to give up not just the pick but what some forget is the bonus pool money attached to it as well for Bourn. At least not if it mean paying him 4 years $48M.
They should have protected the pick though. The Mets got screwed over in that regard, 100%. The Pirates would never have let their draft pick go if they wouldn’t have gotten slotted back in to the top picks again. The rule was made the protect the 10 best draft picks, correlating to the 10 worst teams, how on earth do we get snubbed at the opportunity that the other 9 teams got.
So instead, the result becomes the 9 worst teams, and the Pirates(13th). Rather than, the 10 worst teams.
i’ve changed my mind on this, this would have been a very good deal for the Mets, Alderson did a nice job of negotiating to drop the price $15 million.
Can’t change your mind now…too late
too late…already been changed lol
i’m disappointed in the sense i think he would’ve been a great addition for up to 3 years; i would’ve crossed my fingers in year 4. Look t his game: his legs will slow and his fame will decline by years 4 – 5. Now, i’m rooting for MDD to make it sometime this year.
Whoever is extremely pissed likely wanted this deal just to have something to hold into. Bourn isn’t that great, he’s good, and certainly not a 60 mill guy.
Way to go Sandy.
LOL!
You think every move Sandy makes is a great move…unfortunately our record with him as GM says otherwise
Lets see now if we could maybe get Drew Stubb from the Indians now
Alderson played the waiting game all winter and lost. He went all in on Bourn and lost. He did a nice job filling the other holes but everyone will talk about his failure in the outfield this off season.
We could wait for next year class and sign both Esbllury and Pence
Pence sounds great, but I feel the Giants will lock him up during this season, they would be fools to let him go to FA.
Ellsbury sounds good too, BUT only on an incentive based contract because of his injury issues, but I doubt he would agree to that so hes too risky.
LOL yeah lets start a year long rumor that the Mets are going after Pence and Elsbury. Come on Sandy do it. Start a leak that the Mets are really waiting for next offseason to sign Pence and Elsbury. Go for it Sandy, your legions are counting on it. LOL
I’m sure stronger teams will be after these guys also, Sandy is going to have to tell them the plan and give them attractive offers.
Stronger as in ????
We will certainly be cash strong if thats what you mean, we could offer Pence anything next year. I just think San Fran will lock him up before the deadline or trade him to someone who will lock him up.
They should still fix that draft rule – 10 worst records get protected pick regardless of what happened in the prior draft.
It’s first ten picks, not ten worst records. There’s nothing to fix.
Absolutely, if a team cant sign their pick, then tough sh!tz. You lose it. Its absurd that the bucs dont lose their place because they couldnt, or wouldnt, close their deal.
Truly maddening. Those words are the best to describe this signing. I don’t deplore the front office, I deplore their actions. You manage to ignite talk and debate among the fanbase, whether this team is ready for this type of move, and manage to polarize the fanbase even more than before because they have fans pinching pennies for them, whilst another group of fans who have been vociferous in wanting at least, to try and believe that the worst is over, that the tear down is through, and the ‘countdown to contending’ has begun. The side you choose, whether anti or pro Sandy should be immaterial. It should be whether Bourn would have made us better…we all know he would have, not just this year either. Moving forward, it would have shown the fanbase and players that talk of the franchises’ demise and willingness to lose for a better tomorrow, is over, and that the time for action is at hand. It would have brought about something we all long for…the signal from ownership and the front office that everything they’ve done they believed in and the believe in the nucleus of young talent they have in their system. This tells me they don’t yet…A few million more 3 or 4, and this gets done. Instead it will be more arguments and divisiveness…it’s getting old folks. Both pro and anti…no?
Mike, good comment. That’s been my POV, that this has felt like bungled, mismanaged public relations. Clearly, I think Alderson hoped to steal Bourn and that approach rarely, if ever, works out. But through this entire charade, hopes have been unnecessarily raised. As camp opens in Florida, it’s a new day of disappointment for many. Compared to the Pagan and Victorino deals, the Indians did very well. And maybe this could be overstated, but Wright and Davis both said they wanted Michael Bourn as their teammate. How do they feel today?
Sandy apologists will say this is a great move not improving the Outfield this year and point to Cowgill as an upgrade/sleeper breakout player….
I remember when Brad Eamus was supposed to be the upgrade/sleeper breakout player at 2B lol…that didnt work out for Sandman either…
Dam I am shocked the Mets went 4 years, to much for me, 3 years would have been sweet. No way he gets 5 years from Alderson, 550 at bats in year 4 makes it a 5 year deal for Bourn, not sure what Indians are thinking there, hopefully Mets get Gomez in center next year and Stanton in right which is what I preferred in the first place.
This just in, Cowgill and Kirk will have more homers, combine for about thew same average if not higher, and most likely drive in more runs than Bourn, while playing very good center field defense for 1 mill. If they Play the platoon right they might even get better numbers.
Sorry do we get extra credit for not spending money? Are you that concerned with Fred and Jeff affording a new summer home? What is this obsession with trying to get everything done cheap. This is a very fair deal for the Tribe. And we are not getting Stanton without giving up Harvey and Wheeler. So it is not happening. Plus we would have to give him 8 years and 200 million… The Sandman doesn’t know that number.
Not sure if this was posted before, but, 30 is about when you want to unload your elite defensive outfielders according to:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/michael-bourns-questionable-future-defensive-value/
Between the likes of Cowgil, Paterson, Kirk you can probably create whatever production Bourn would have provided with maybe a little more power and a little less in the SB dept (and of course the drop-off in defense but maybe not as much as we think according to the article linked above).
If the Mets want a real good CFer for a 4 or 5 year stretch, their best bet is to develop one of Legares, Puelo, Den Dekker, into a legit CF option.
Sounds like the Mets were shafted … they tried to push MLB to resolve the issue several weeks ago but MLB demanded a “deal on the table” which of course would have (at the time) driven his price up. So the Mets timed it perfectly, getting his price down to around what they want, and MLB responds with “2 – 3 weeks to resolve draft pick issue” ??? Wow.
You can make an argument that the time was not right for Bourne or that he wasn’t the right guy to invest 4 years in in 2013 but let’s not pretend this is a bad financial deal for the Indians. This contract is at market to below market for what he brings and for those of you who think we will be spending what it takes to field a competitive lineup next year you should have doubts. What exactly did we have Wright defer his oversized contract for? Why didn’t we pay Bay out and not drag on next year ? All questions our GM should be answering.
This is a major screw up. I have been very much on the fence with Bourn for the same reasons I was happy the Mets did not resign Reyes. Speed guys regress quicker. When you look at the contract, the state of the current outfield, the lack of outfielders in the farm and the lack of outfielders in next years FA class, to me this is a major screw up. Passing on proven commodity, at a reasonable cost over a gamble is gross negligence IMO.
“Speed guys regress quicker.”
Nah, this is a myth that’s been proven wrong. There was an extensive analysis on this on fangraphs, but I forget what it’s called… If anybody knows what I’m talking about post it here.
Hey bro just turn dat frown upside down.
Now we can move on the the Mets trading for Stanton rumors.
Too early?
Lol. Way too early and I currently have no booze in the house to even deal with this subject.
Hahahaha. Hang in there bro, Nova is probably whipping up a special brew as we speak.
Dont worry Salty Brandon Nimmo will be here in 4 years when David Wright is on his way out lol
Bourn couldn’t afford to wait another 2-3 weeks to find out if he was going to get paid.
I bet he signed that contract without even reading it after sitting around all offseason begging for a deal!
Please show me when and where did Bourne beg for a deal….That was an asinine comment he’s making roughly $12Mil per year for the next 4yrs possibly for the next 5yrs…
FYI he didnt even jump at the 1st deal he was offered which reports say were from the Mets….So hardly begging…more like waiting for the Best offer a method that didnt hurt Prince Fielder last year as he was given a truck full of money
Begging for a deal??? Alderson was the one begging and he has been for three years.
On a sweeter note:
Boras’ days of running amuck are over.
Bourn could have gotten this type of deal w/o giving that snake-oil salesman Boras’ 15%
Hell, B&B waited until Feb 11 for 4/$48M !?!?!?
This is a huge Boras failure, if I were Bourn I would NOT sign a commission check for Boras.
He could have gotten more money, & years, months ago from the Cowards, ooppss, I mean Braves.
Lohse is probably pretty nrevous right now knowing that teams arent falling for Boras’ BS anymore.
Dont worry Salty Brandon Nimmo will be here in 4 years when David Wright is on his way out
lol
I can’t say I am a regular reader or even follower of Bill Price but I am guessing this is his silver lining view on Bourn signing with the Indians.
@TheBitterBill
Mets may have bad outfield, but at least they don’t have over 100 mil committed to Nick Swisher and Bourn
https://twitter.com/TheBitterBill
Swisher and Bourne are both pretty good players…Although he is a d-bag Swisher puts up consistently good numbers high OBP. and power…not to mention he is versatile can play OF and 1B….Bourne is a stud defensively and a proven leadoff hitter the best the Indians will have since Kenny Lofton manned the OF…Aside from Swishers struggles in the playoffs I dont see the downside to the money both men are being paid…
Only Mets fans count the money that players are being payed….rather than the production they will have on the field…..These tv deals have the ROYALS and PIRATES spending money none of these teams are crying poor….well except for the Wilpons whom want to open up Casino Royale next to Citi Field smh
I didn’t know Price was a fan.
Wah wah wah…
Big deal…So the Mets go with the kids, boo who.
News flash…with Bourn, overtaking the Nats and Braves would still be nearly impossible. Next year they’ll have a ton of cash to spend, Wheeler will be in the rotation, numerous other young pitching will be nearly ready and it’ll be game on.
“Next year they’ll have a ton of cash to spend, ”
really?
b/c they will have alot of people buying tickets this year ?
lmao
Why is it I don’t have much confidence even about 2014. By “ton of money to spend” I guess you mean the end of Bay’s and Santana’s contracts. The Mets won’t trade their top prospects, so will go the free agent route. I hear the FA class will be weak after 2013 season.
Hope I’m wrong, because I’m really getting weary of the circus in Flushing. I enjoy watching the kids play, as they did the first half of 2012, but I’m running out of time to see at least a contending team.
I knew it.
I believe it was just last week, I had this conversation with Metsie that it would be a week before Bourn cracks, he caves, he doesn’t get the 5 year, $75 million he desired and what do you know? I was right. The years were right, the $$$ was right, but out of all this, I have to wonder why it would’ve taken 2-3 weeks for them to make a decision for the protection of a 1st round pick. With that said, I ain’t mad and I don’t blame Bourn for making his decision to go elsewhere….but Cleveland?!?! A shitty, snakebitten city like Cleveland? Meh. I’m just glad this is over with. Now I just wanna see if Den Dekker is able to take his place in CF and impress in ST.
the optimist in me says defensively, MDD is just fine…and Kirk may be ok as well in RF…or Jordany
but at the end of the day….we had the chance to add 2 OF for the next 3-4 years and surround David Wright with some bonafide hitters….
and we punted for “flexibility”
Can you really say they punted for Bourn when nobody was gonna give in to his demands & he waited into the day everyone reported for Spring Training to sign? The Mets were his #1 choice? Here’s the problem I have with that: The Mets for WEEKS were the ONLY choice & he bullshitted for BJ Upton money. In fact, let’s review:
Coming into the winter, he wanted $100 million. Then, he wanted 5 years, $75 million and NOBODY was gonna bite. I said for the last 3 months that the best thing for Bourn is taking something like 3 years, $45 million. Now, he’s gonna make $48 million.
Again I ask, why would this process of ruling about a draft pick take almost a month to materialize?
I agree AND reiiterate:
“Bourn could have gotten this type of deal w/o giving that snake-oil salesman Boras’ 15%
Hell, B&B waited until Feb 11 for 4/$48M !?!?!?
This is a huge Boras failure, if I were Bourn I would NOT sign a commission check for Boras.
He could have gotten more money, & years, months ago from the Cowards, ooppss, I mean Braves.”
I cant see Bourn being happy about 4/$48M after thinking 5/$75M
From all I have read and heard MDD is the real deal defensively in CF so at least on that end if true the Mets are good. I have watched Spin play RF over his past 27 or so games and he seems to struggle when charging line drives hit at him with a couple of balls bouncing past him off his glove. His plus is his speed though to make up for bad routes but defensively he will be just as scary to watch I think as Duda was in RF last year going back into that corner to track some balls. But I think if Spin can get his bat right the Mets would give him a shot at RF.
He admittedly has worked on some of his outbursts Collins I saw say as much as well and Mejia acknowledged he just needed to work on that. I saw a nice interview with him and I felt he just needs to mature a bit more and the Mets really need to find a mentor that he can identify with and sort of take him under his wing but I understand as well that that is something that can’t be afforded to every player.
Anyway I know he gets a bad rap at times and some is undeserved but some is his own fault as well and he said as much but I am rooting for him and not just for him but for his mom that he wants to make proud and be able to take care of. It’s up to Spin to do his part and start to mature into a MLB Player.
If you hav yet to see you should check out the interview with him and his family. It’s in spanish but if you speak the language I think you will find it a bit revealing as to who Spin is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwO8rgB785Q
Which is why when we discussed the possibility of them having a deal that they thought was the right price for them they should have signed it regardless of the pick being at risk instead of worrying about the pick and they would then have until JUNE to get the pick back!
I also mentioned that if they tried to get the deal they liked and then waited to petition the MLB regarding the pick that other teams would see that price and snatch him up while we were waiting on the red tape appeal proccess.
Boras isn’t god but if you give him a minute to shop whatever deal you think you have with him around he WILL shop it so whatever price you got will be at minimum matched.
If they really were SERIOUS about having Bourn they would not have let the pick get in the way…They did and they lost the guy they wanted at the price they wanted to someone else.
So really all the FO managed to do was set the lowball market for the rest of the MLB.
Good job Sandy now lets trade Cowgill and Baxter for Stanton o_O then trade Murphy for TROUT o_O why stop there we’ll also sign Ellsbury next year free agency problems solved
Sandy is a genius
Leroy, don’t be so disrespecful…. IT’S STOIC GENIUS OK?!? Thanks for commenting.
Somewhere Capt Kirk is smiling alone in a room as he hears the news that Bourn signed with Cleveland and in his Jack Nicholson as the Joker voice says,
“Wait till they get a load of me!”
http://youtu.be/sQn-vulThcY
ESPN is reporting that mets offered same 4/48 deal, but wouldn’t go through with it unless they kept the pick. On top of that, apparently, this was his first choice.
So much for Boras talking about 5 years $14-$15 million per season just a few days ago.
THIS JUST IN:
Neuwenheis and Den Dekker seen arriving via limo @ SHOWGIRLS Gentlemens Club where they have 5 VIP tables reserved in the Champagne Room for an all-night celebration !!
Scanning Sportspyder for anything on Bourn John Harper of the Daily News says this,
@NYDNHarper
Mets’ people kept telling me Alderson wouldn’t have been making jokes about OF if he wasn’t sure he’d get a good one. So much for that.
https://twitter.com/NYDNHarper/status/301170780887199744
Agreed so much for that. The MetsGM did a poor job acquiring what at least for me even if they signed Bourn was supposed to be a experienced major league right handed bat with some pop for the outfield.
Now I find myself asking as we head into camp this Spring. What can (Andrew) Brown do for you?
Two words: Scotty Hairston. Huge mistake by Alderson.
I can’t say Huge mistake as I personally never felt Hairston could be an everyday player but I can see how it can be viewed as a mistake as well.
You can talk all you want about the “future” all you want, but the bottom line is that RIGHT NOW, the Mets have the worst outfield in baseball, and that’s the truth. Period. They should have done everything they could to get Bourn. They have the money now to have gotten him. I’m so sick and tired of constantly hearing about the future; with this team it’s always the “future,” never the present. Bourn wouldn’t have brought the Mets a championship, but his signing would have done a lot to give this team some much needed credibility Right Now and Met fans some reason to believe. And that’s the truth. Period. I’m so frustrated with this team yet again.
You talk about RIGHT NOW, admit that they would not win even with Bourn, but would spend the money and not build on the future (which you apparently disdain), but justify it by saying they would have credibility?? Please. Then you emphasize it with “period”. Give me a break. That’s both irrational and absurd.
They are on the right track. You don’t fix anything that screwed up overnight.
Drew, then why agan did they sign wright? It’s not like we’ll win with him either nor have we won with him. why keep him around and throw house money at him? you guys and your double standard.
Alex, stop bringing up Wright because he invalidates all the excuses for failing to get Justin or BJ or Bourn. lol
I wanted BJ Upton and Justin. Justin became a pipe-dream when they ask for Wheeler+ or Harvey+. BJ, I still would have done.
Look, you can’t be that black and white about it. David Wright is David Wright and the face of the franchise at the moment. And yes there is a credibility issue at stake since you are the one who used the word. David Wright’s signing not only means a lot more in terms of credibility, but he adds a hell of a lot more to the team than Bourn would have. Look at it this way, part of the money they save by not signing Bourn was used to pay for Wright.
You still pissed Sandy didn’t re-sign Reyes at the number Reyes wanted??
And I still remember guys like Bonilla, Saberhagen, Henderson and Coleman.
We’ll be fine.
In a perfect world, Capn Kirk and Duda will have matured from their experiences from last seasons. Kirk hitting 270 AVG /18 to 20 HRS/ 15 to 20 SB’s 65 to 75 RBI’s in this hypothetical world Duda hit’s 275 to 290 25 to 35 HR with 90 RBI..
Sadly we will probably get Dude Hitting 250 with 18 hrs and 55 rbi and Kirk will hit 243 with 12 hrs and 45 rbi’s…What we need is at least one outfielder to have a breakout season with the bat. Someone has to hit at least 265. with 25 hrs and 70rbi…D’Arnoud needs to come up and hit 280 with 15 to 20 hrs…We have a lot of hypothetical things to happen.
One prediction!
If Reese Havens stays healthy, he takes the 2b job from Murphy.. if he does he hits 275 with 15 to 20 hrs.
Murphy is the 2nd best hitter in on the Mets behind Wright, there is almost no chance of Reese Havens taking his spot, even if Havens stays healthy. If Murphy has a big year and the mets Trade him, Wilmer Flores will get 1st shot at 2nd base.
I read that Alderson told Harper of the Daily News that when he made the two jokes about the outfield, he did so thinking that neither of them would be starting in 2013. How does Duda, Kirk and Bax feel about that? Their boss thinks they’re all a joke.
That was actually discussed in a post today.
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130211&content_id=41539482&vkey=news_nym&c_id=nym
Thanks man. Sounds like they’ll have a chip on their shoulder to prove Sandy wrong.
You welcome.
I’m ok with not getting Bourn if the Mets don’t platoon Baxter in RF. He started 45 games last year and in those games hit .224 with a .685 OPS and that includes that abnormal 5 walk game against San Diego. Take that game away and his OPS as a starter drops 17 points with his OBP dropping percentage points below 300. He has no pop and is, at best, a defensive replacement/PH.
I hope the Mets do one of the following 3 options instead:
1. Pick up Tony Campana from the Cubs (recently DFA’d) to play CF as starter or platoon partner with Cowgil, shifting Kirk to RF platoon with Byrd or Brown
2. Start Den Dekker in CF, again moving Kirk to RF
3. Give Valdedspin a shot at a RF platoon/super sub role
The first two options are preferable as it gives the Meta good OF defense, even with Duda in LF and gives Valdespin more time at AAA to show that the 380 OBP in winter league isn’t a fluke.
I know Den Dekker strikes out a lot, but I think he could at least be Drew Stubbs (15 to 20 HR, 20 to 30 SB, 240 BA with 700 OPS).
It would also let us know what we got in the OF with a few solid FA next year (Ellsbury and/or Pence preferably) and some unknowns in the minors (Lagares, Vaughn, Valdespin and Klutz adjustment to the OF).
Glad it’s over, and Sandy knew he was not going to sign Bourn, I don’t care who says the Mets were in it. The Mets are always “in it” until the player signs with someone else. I say go with what you have anyway, maybe they will surprise ………….
And what would’ve been your comment had they signed him? You’re amazing. i get the whole be pessimistic thing, but at some point you got to realize this team ain’t going nowhere. it’s amazing how till this day sandy alderson gets a pass from people like you.. Maybe they’ll surprise…. no they won’t. they took the league by surprised last year with their patient phylosophy that worked for like 2 months when we were hot, then, the league caught up, the bullpen kept being a joke and what do you know? the mets did a losing turnaround of -23 games. SMH
I am not heartbroken. I am sure we can come up with someone and not have to commit for that long. My goal all winter Bonafacio from Toronto.
Bonifacio?? Why???? You think toronto will let him go? trust me, toronto can be very dinamic pluggin him in as well…
Lets get Jeff Francoeur. He’d be a stud in our outfield. LMAO
Bonafacio is on the bench there at this time, he is 27 years old, 2.3 Million contract and can play CF.
I think he is competing for the 2B job.
Never hurts to ask if available.
LOL, I tried but they won’t return my call.
u mean like the way we came up with someone to replace Pagan ?
Lots of word vomit from the “Sandy is Almighty” brigade here. All of a sudden everyone who was praising Alderson for pursuing Bourn has had a reversal of opinion, memory loss, and overt flip-flopping. Clear signs that they don’t want what’s best for the team, only what’s best for the GM. Kind of pathetic, but hardly unexpected or surprising.
Not me, I have been pretty consistent. Didn’t really want Bourn and my cut off was 3 years and no pick lost.
I know that the outfield is pretty weak, but are people really getting twisted over a .270 hitter, with little to no power, that has above average speed and defense?
Is it the fact that the outfield is still weak, or simply because Alderson didn’t pull the plug and it will create weeks of bellyaching over it.
Is it the fact that the outfield is still weak
Had we signed BJ Upton and traded for Justin Upton, no one would care about Bourn…
we signed Marlon Byrd…thats our best option in CF right now…sounds like 2010 when we signed Gary M Jr…or 2009 when we signed Gary Sheffield…
Different GM, same toilet
Get it right, we traded for GMJR.
u are right …yes…only b/c the Angels ate 20 of the 22 mil he was owed….
BJ Upton? There is a guy on the garbage heap. Lots of potential but not a great ball player. Watch the guy on a regular basis like I did and you will see it.
As for J Upton, what just snap the fingers and it will happen? Harvey or Wheeler had to be in the deal because the Mets didnt have other pieces to offer AZ. But in your mind, that is not important. Just make the deal happen.
Get into reality..outside of Dickey the Mets had little to trade that they would have a prayer of replacing.
You can’t lose what you never had BUT what scares the heck out of me with the Mets is that they are now GUN SHY after the Jason Bay contract fiasco and disaster. I fear they’ll never pull the trigger on anyone above the 10 million a year range. David Wright our franchise player is the very last player that will ever see that kind of contract from the Mets. I sure hope we have a GREAT farm system because that is our future. Whatever comes up through the system is what we will have unless their used for trade bait that won’t cost any money. Id D’Arnaud develops as we think he will we’ll probably lose him to free agency too someday. Enjoy Harvey and Wheeler and Niese and Gee while their here, they won’t be for long.
If the 2 weeks was such an issue…
why didnt Sandy bring this up in November…or October…or Sept…
Based on what we are reading, fear that other teams would then get involved and the price would go up.
false
expectations
appearing
real
The Mets are in no position to make this type of a commitment to an average player. Do you really think Bourne would have moved the Mets out of fourth place? How many more wins would he realistically produce? I would have like to see him in CF for 2 years, 3 max at 25-30mill or forget about it.
I’ll say it again. Go get Raj Davis for nothing so it does not look all that bad and we can have a guy steal some bases.
With having the Big Cheat Melky on the team, I am not sure they are in the market for trading any OF right now.
Mets obviously need more young talent, but could have rationalized losing pick by saying they acquired D’Arnaud and Syndergaard for Dickey.”
Ken Rosenthal…..
Interesting perspective. Kinda makes sense.
Not if you’re trying to lose on purpose to get an even better draft pick the following year
So why sign Marcum or Lyon instead of going with Familia and Mejia?
This.
I just don’t buy the tanking-on-purpose theory.
I guess the conspiracy could be that they want to keep a protected pick while still competing but I don’t buy conspiracy theories to start with.
Because if somehow they find the magic bottle and do good, they can be traded for more prospects. no? again, marcum is an injury risk who’s replacing dickey, and they know mejia replacing somehow who undoubtedly will get hurt in the rotation. whether is Gee, Santana, Marcum all three are injury related pitchers who at any moment can break down. am i wrong here?
But if they were only concerned at stinking as bad as possible you wouldn’t have brought them in to start with. You would have went with guys like Mejia and Familia followed by Heffer and the boys.
The bottom line is most players peak at 29 or 30 with a decline taking place them. Some will put it off a couple years, but studies show all decline after 30. Speed guys experience this a bit quicker. The Met already got themselves into a contract this off season where the player will, at best, start to decline halfway through the term (at worst it is already starting). Bourne is another one.
As I said, I was torn with the option of signing him. He does immediately make the Mets better but will he in a year or two. Speed guys tend to hit a wall and decline rather rapidly. Will it happen to Bourne? Who knows but the odds are against him.
Wright peaked when he was 26. That deal he signed is like Bourn’s deal cubed in terms of being an albatross.
If a guy peaked at 26, and places 6th in the MVP when he’s 29, we’re in pretty good shape at 3B. Wouldn’t be a day ending in “Y” if you didn’t say something stupid or wrong about Wright.
Why did Bourn’s price nose dive. His strike outs as a lead off batter. Borus’s demand for 15M AND 5 years guaranteed. Soon Borus saw musical chairs and no team. The Mets had issues with the draft pick. The market collapsed. Alderson in effect bought the price down with the chicken game with Borus. He did not bid against himself. Indians gave more than Alderson with incentive vesting option for fifth year. That alone makes Bourn unattractive; draft pick or not. Alderson won the battle but lost the war. Bourn got the fifth year but preferred the Mets. Bourus got his man the fitfh year at a reduced salary per year. No real winners on paper at this time. However if Bourn is very productive or the 11th draft pick is an Andrew McCutchen then it can objectively be critiqued.
The Mets are going into a season without one Major League outfielder, a terrible bullpen, without a catcher unless everyone thinks the ROOKIE is going to bat 330 and hit 30 homers in year one? The truth is the METS ownership is tapped out and have no interest is spending money on talent. Citifield will be a ghost town by July and they will Terry Collins to take the hit.
BOB, UNFORTUNATELY YOUR HYPOTHESIS IS RUINEWD BY REPORTS OF THE MET OFFER OF 4Y/$48M
Without a catcher? Are you claiming the Mets should have kept Thole? Was that the answer? If not what is your solution? Besides Buck is an upgrade over what was there/.
Terrible BP? Actually it seems the Mets made progress there. Lyon is a good addition and all the vets who were brought in will provide some decent options. Not all of them will pan out but, out of the bunch, 2 or 3 will.
I can’t believe some idiot said he would have preferred a 3 year deal at $15 million per and no 4th year. LMAO
This is getting hilarious.
Newsflash!
4/48 > 3/45
Hmmm, I am not so sure about that Maniac. I guess if you were confident in your ability you would think you could make more with a 3/45 deal and signing again in 3 years than you would 4/48 unless you were afraid of injury or that you wouldn’t be worth more than 3M in 3 years.
Yes because that’s what free agents all do right? LOL Men are from Mars, women are from Venus, then there’s you.
Wright signed an 8 year deal because he had no confidence in himself, so passed on signing a 3 year deal. Gotcha.
I bet if you went back through the cmments you will find that a lot of folks who are currently saying this was too much to pay all said they would pay more or close to this price until we didn’t get him….
It was a no brainer to predict what was going to happen here….
No matter WHAT the price….
If we had signed him it would have been a GREAT DEAL and a STEAL…
And if ANYONE ESLE signed him it would be called TOO MUCH for him….
It was as predictable as NOON!
I think it’s damned if you do or don’t from both extreme sides. The incredibly anti-Sandy group would have been all over him if he had signed him for 4/48 — 5/60 and give up a pick and would have just used the why didn’t you re-sign Reyes line instead. Oh yeah, we already saw that before he was even signed.
Again, for me as I said before during and after I did not think Bourn was a good fit.
My statements were in regards to the FIRM TRS…..
You know those people who make thier evaluations of deals/potential deals based on if Sandy made them or not?
If Sandy gets them then the price was a steal WELL worth the money no matter what the money (see Francisco at 6M per) or a guy who hits .220 and gets 3 Mil.
And if Sandy doesn’t get him REGARDLESS of the performance level no matter WHAT that player signs for is TOO MUCH to pay for X,Y, And Excuse Z.
The incredibly anti-Sandy group would have been all over him if he had signed him for 4/48.
That’s speculation.
The incredibly pro-Sandy group would have been all over defending the non-signing of Bourn.
That’s fact.
METManiac is the idiot. Two years at 25 or 3 years at 30 does not equal 3 years at 15 per year. Nor does it approach 4 years for 48. Moron!
Just glad the BS is over. Alderson was never signing Bourn, it was all for show. Bourn is not what the Mets need anyway.
5/60 for Bourn is too much. But, this is a results-based business, and at the end of the day it’s all about results. Alderson is responsible for coming up empty, and he is responsible for the current gaping holes on the team – no lead-off hitter, and no reliable closer. Fill those holes and the team has a shot at competing.
I’m sorry Sandy but I don’t believe you because as in the past your actions do not match your words and the result has always been the same: nothing.
It’s not that you didn’t sign Bourn that has me upset – in fact, taken in the context of all the moves you didn’t make for this team, I’m glad you didn’t. Bourn in himself would not have been enough to make the club that much stronger or be part of the core you still feel needs developing.
It’s that you talk as if you think most Met fans are idiots.
Today you told the media that you made every effort to sign Bourn. Before that it was the fifth year vetting that was a stumbling block.
Well, how come those like Joel Sherman were picking up information about the deal being offered was similar to Cleveland’s? A fifth year $12 million option based on plate appearances in the fourth season is not an offer similar to the Indians.
If so serious, then why the wait for the arbitrator’s decision being a stumbling block? How about the three month wait which still didn’t result in the filing of a petition ?
Or even more directly – at the time when informed that the Mets were bumped to number eleven why not having at least initiated an “INFORMALl” inquiry with MLB to get an idea of what you would be up against – you know, just like the kind of “informal” talks you had with Jose’s agent which led you to conclude the Mets could not meed his demands?
And if it is a matter of not having the money but spending it wisely, why would one who has cited so many past types of contracts in which teams have been “burned” with similar type players (age, skill, etc.) suddenly commit to even a $48 million four year contract (with no fifth year) on a 30 year old gold glove center fielder with great speed but a lifetime .272 bating average who averages four home runs a year? Can see other teams doing it, but this goes so much against your past history. Why the turn around?
And then, why no mention about the CBA ruling when talking with Mike Francesa about a month ago when it pertained to improving that outfield? Instead we were told that you were waiting to see how further things developed – and that included the strategy to present an offer to Scott Hairston. And when Francesa inquired about Scott you said:
“You know, money’s always an issue and I wouldn’t deny that, but it’s also a question of playing time and he wants to play — we understand that — and one of the things that exists for us right now, the dynamic is, that in order for us to sign Scott we want to be able to commit a certain amount of playing time. This is where you balance two or three things going on at the same time. If one or two other things were to happen, it might affect his playing time. So it’s not just about the money, it’s also about playing time and what we can readily commit to Scott.”
So $5 million over two years ($2.5 million per year) with incentives was too much to invest because of the problem pertaining to playing time? With the outfield we had and still do?
And yet you would commit $48 million ($12 million per year) to a player who would be the same as Scott would be after his two year deal would end (34)?
Sorry Sandy, but there are just too many contradictions in both words, actions and and other moves to believe that you made every effort to sign Bourn – or to sign ANY type-A free agent. You knew about the conflict with the CBA ruling the end of October. Again, that you didn’t make any INFORMAL inquiry to get an idea of how MLB was going to interpret that doesn’t speak well for any sincerity to match those words.
Or, did you actual make such an informal inquiry and knew what to possibly expect – use of an independent arbitrator, having to first sign a type-A free agent before petition could be filed, the time element in which it would take to reach a decision – and thus waited prior to spring training so to let that time limit work conveniently work against you?
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2013/1/17/3889254/sandy-alderson-mets-francesa-travis-darnaud-zack-wheeler