27
2013
Alderson Says He Could Go To Camp With Current Outfielders
An article by 
Another thing Sandy Alderson discussed during his appearance on MLB Network Radio this morning, was the state of the Mets outfield.
The Mets GM said it’s possible that he will go into camp with just the current group of outfielders and possibly Andrew Brown and Collin Cowgill.
“There’s not a lot left on the shelf,” Alderson explained. “At some point, we have to realize the outfield is not the strength of our team. But at least going into Spring Training, we maybe looking at what we have, and not being able to make an addition.”
On Friday, Adam Rubin spoke to Terry Collins who told him he plans to look at both Justin Turner and Zach Lutz in the outfield this Spring.
Turner has not played a game in the outfield in his Major League career and Lutz has never played a game in the outfield in his minor league career.
In 2012, the New York Mets had the worst ranked outfield in the majors in terms of production, and they have lost their top producing outfielder Scott Hairston, who signed a two-year deal with the Cubs last week.
The Michael Bourn buzz has dwindled in the last 24 hours, and this morning Sandy didn’t sound optimistic about signing him or making an offer. To begin, if they were to do something the Mets would want him to take a heavily backloaded deal.
Two weeks ago I projected that the Mets cash outlay for the 2013 Opening Day roster to be around $75 million dollars.
The current outfield projects to be Lucas Duda in left, Kirk Nieuwenhuis in center, and Mike Baxter in right, or basically no change from what I projected back in October.
I thought Scott Hairston would not return all along, and back during the deadline I argued why he wasn’t traded with the odds were heavy that the Mets will not be able to afford him. But that’s all water under the bridge now.
Alderson says, “there’s not a lot left on the shelf now”. Did he expect that not to be the case after waiting three months to address the outfield?
We now have 5 fourth outfielders who now comprise the whole of our major league outfield:
LF – Lucas Duda
CF – Kirk Nieuwenhuis
RF – Mike Baxter
OF – Collin Cowgill
OF – Andrew Brown
Oh, and Sandy… That’s no joking matter.
Updated 1/25
Jon Heyman says it could take a five-year deal worth $15 million annually to sign Michael Bourn, a Scott Boras client.
He says that Bourn will get a deal that is very comparable to the one B.J. Upton signed with the Braves for five years and $75.2 million dollars.
Bob Nightengale of USA Today believes that the Mets and Mariners are now the favorites for Bourn, and that the Rangers have reportedly bowed out.
Updated 1/24
According to what a source told Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports, the Mets have sincere interest in signing free-agent outfielder Michael Bourn to a long-term deal, but that any deal will likely be backloaded.
I thought that was something we were getting away from because it was hazardous to our health?
Backloaded deals, future annuity payments, deferred salaries, lot’s of the same things we always did before…
Weird…
Still no word on the Mets petitioning MLB to protect their first round pick. It must be really hard for Bud Selig to have to rule against his best bud Fred Wilpon…
You can read more about that below…
Original Post 1/23
According to John Harper of the Daily News, the New York Mets are appealing to Major League Baseball to protect their first round pick.
The Mets initially had the 10th overall pick in the MLB Draft in June, which is automatically protected. But when the Pittsburgh Pirates failed to sign their No. 1 draft pick and were put back in Top 10, it pushed the Mets out of the top ten and to the 11th pick which is not protected.
The Mets were seeking a ruling that would allow them to keep the pick, losing 2nd-rounder instead, but so far it seems they won’t get it, according to Harper.
We were discussing this among a few of the MMO writers on email tonight, and one of them asked why did the Mets wait three months to complain about it and file an appeal.
My answer is simple, first, Sandy Alderson never in a million years thought he’d ever be signing a free agent that had compensation attached to him this offseason.
Second, now that the offseason is nearly over and they see the sad state of affairs in the outfield, they are hot for Michael Bourn – a player they never gave a second glance to three months ago,
I don’t believe the Mets have a leg to stand on although I’ll be the first to say that new CBA Rule is ridiculous and unfair.
The Mets are being punished, but it may be their own closed-mindedness three months ago that will not get them a favorable ruling tomorrow.
Obviously, this validates all the rumors we’ve been hearing connecting the Mets with Bourn. However, if they want him, they are going to have to cough up the pick as well as the cash.
And on that front, Ken Rosenthal said one person with knowledge of the Mets’ thinking, doubts the team will meet Scott Boras’ asking price for Bourn. “Zero chance,” the source said.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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|---|---|---|---|---|
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| Phillies | 20 | 23 | .465 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 24 | .400 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 32 | .256 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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Yea was just going to mention this in the comments. By the way you might want to get another post up. It looks like Scott Hairston is a Cub pending a physical.
Joe, I would imagine the price tag is the real smoking gun here. It seems to me that if the Mets are starting down this road, they’ve had preliminary talks with Boras on what Bourn would cost and it’s to their liking. If Bourn had that price tag three months ago, they would have started this compensation battle three months ago.
I don’t think it’s as simple as saying they had no prior designs on any FA with a pick attached or now that they see what their OF is, they want Bourn. It’s the same OF as it was three months ago, minus Bay and plus more depth options. But there was never a full time player in the mix, so I don’t agree with that assessment.
I think Bourn’s price tag fell into their happy zone, and that’s why this is happening all of a sudden.
That’s exactly what Joe is saying. Had they been prepared for this possible outcome they would have lobbied three months go. Pure incompetence
How so? If they weren’t looking to make an offer 3 months ago, why bother? not like they lost out on anything.
It’s called being prepared.
Not at all. You’re saying hte Mets should have fought the rule three months ago in case they wanted to spend $100 million on a player?
The point is, they’re not spending $100 million on a player, so why look to fight the rule? Turns out, Bourn will likely cause less than half of that now.
I don’t like this deal. i”m in the minority. i think it’s both fantasy & bad baseball strategy to spend these $$$$’s on 1) a guy that will not disturb our 4th place finish; 2) makes us forfeit our 1st round 11th pick; 3) makes us lose precious draft $$$$’s; 4) is a Boras client & likely has a ‘non-compensatory – pick’ clause buried in the contract; 5) is a singles hitter on downside of the hill; and 6) will have little value at the end of the deal.
This is a bad move I hope the Orioles get Upton & the Braves resign Bourn.
1) The Phillies will have a lot to say about that fourth place finish
2) Bourn > 11th overall pick
3) Draft dollars don’t matter when the owner’s demand nothing but slot signings, anyway.
4) Boras represents a lot of players. Deal with it.
5) He’ll start to decline in a couple of years, not the second he signs with the Mets.
6) Very few free agent contracts have value at the end. It’s the price you pay for the value at the beginning of the deal.
Agree. Exactly why we should have kept Reyes. A younger better Bourne
Not all. Reyes contract was a terrible albatross. Thanks for your time and good riddance.
Not like wrights…….
How dumb we are
I don’t know who you are or where you came from, but everything you’ve been saying makes perfect sense. Look at what Reyes did last season and now his 6 year deal is a 5 year deal and he’s 29 with no signs of slowing down. I salute you. Wright 8 years $142 or Reyes 5 years $90?
Wright’s contract is actually 8 years 123 million and an additional 15 million deferred from 2021-2025. Reyes has 6 years 96 million left on his contract.
meant to say 5* years 96 million for Reyes.
Not all. Reyes contract was a terrible albatross. Thanks for your time and good riddance”
Are you guys competing for the most asinine comment of all time in here? I get most of you don’t know baseball, and got some bias that reach new boundaries, but the last thing ANY met fan should be talking about is bad contracts. WE’re like the poster child for that and continue to be. Bay, Perez, Castillo, Bonilla, Foster and to make matters worst, we just signed a guy with OBVIOUS decline to an 8 year contract when the likelihood of that contract will be 2 good years. Xtreemicon is as dumb as they come
I’ve forgotten more about baseball than you’ll ever know. Ever. And it’s not even debatable.
ahhh, kids these days…
Then it doesn’t say much about you, does it?
You’re one of the biggest sandy lovers in here and it has shown troughout the whole time he’s been here, yet you feel the need to take a shot at reyes when it’s obvious he could’ve helped this franchise going forward? Why? Because by doing so you make your american idol look good, all you do is bring up stupid points about how what the FO is doing is the right way to go about business, you know nothing of baseball and your idiotic comments speak for themselves, but hey, you exchange emails with Joe D so you’re safe in getting tossed out of here if ever, so it’s ok to be posting more stupid stuff, want my advise? learn baseball and about the history of the mets, THEN come talk to me stupid…
You don’t seem to comprehend. I run baseball circles around you. You are ignorant when it comes to baseball. Completely useless in a discussion about real baseball. Just out of place and constantly outclassed.
Think about the names you’ve adopted since you’ve been in this site, you think that’s a coincidence? think not, all you do is suck sandy’s b**ls, by approving everything he does doesn’t make you know baseball, makes you ignorant and more stupid than you actually are, again, do yourself a favor and learn about the history of the mets instead of sucking up to sandy alderson and all he does, it’s getting sad and pathetic at this point, and i will end this conversation as i don’t wanna get ban from here, unlike you i am not an immortal here who exchange emails with joe d or write articles for the site, so have a nice day cleaning your face after your meeting with sandy…
I seem to have touched a nerve when I called you out for having zero baseball knowledge. There’s no insult you can throw or trap you can try and bait to discount that. Everything you say is an indictment on your character and your knowledge of baseball. You can cry till you’re blue in the face about the names you and the two other stooges call me when you run and hide in the shoutbox and you can tell me I should learn this or learn that but you won’t ever convince anyone who even casually reads this site that you A) know more than I do or B) know anything at all. It’s that simple.
Enough already please Alex with the declining David Wright nonsense. it’s everyday with this.
David Wright is still the same player. He’s not declining at 29. He’s the same player in a bigger park on a worse team. You can pretend like those two things don’t matter, but that doesn’t mean they don’t matter. David Wright’s 2012 is right on par with what he was doing 2005-2008. He hit .306/.391/.492. For his career he is .301/.381/.506. His year last year is just about equivalent to what he would do in Shea in a better lineup. 21 home runs plus a few for park change, right on par. RBI’s 93. Just about a 100+ RBI season in Shea in a better lineup. He also hit 41 doubles, which is what he was doing in those years. Walked 80+ times, struck out 112 times, same as all those years. If you wanna say he’s lost a step, fine I’ll give you that one. He’s also BETTER defensively.
If you wanna talk about his bad second half, it’s called the law of averages. Wright was playing out of his mind for three months. Well above his career numbers. The decline in the second half was inevitable. Unless of course you thought he was going to have this breakout career Pujols-esqe year out of nowhere. Does it really matter if he contributes to an above career average amount of wins in the first three months and none in the last three, or if they’re more evenly distributed between the two halves? Wins in April count the same as wins in September.
And also, what does it even matter what he did in the second half. Were the Mets a playoff team if Wright hits in the second half? Was Wright’s slightly above league average second half responsible for a 14 game swing in the standings? I’m betting no. They had no Santana and no Gee and no one else other than Ike really doing anything offensively. Let’s see what he does in a second half where it actually matters. I can post his numbers down the stretch the last time it mattered if you want me to and compare them to your favorite short stop, but it’s been done before.
David Wright is still an all-star, and he was sixth in the mvp voting. Until he’s not an all-star anymore, I can’t let ya have this one dude.
Blaming any of the Mets demise on Wright is quite irrational and borders on absurd.
If the Mets had a David Wright sort of player at every position, they´d be an easy 115-win team. The problem is that since 2006, the supporting cast has constantly regressed or been injured or been let go. With Wright joining the injury parade at times in 2011 with the broken back (fluke) and after Matt Cain´s beaning (was it in 2009 or 2010 ? I can´t remember the year, certainly even more flukish).
Wright remains an elite 3bman. Not the hitter like Miguel Cabrera ( a slugging 1bman who stands at 3b) but right there and possibly slightly better overall than Adrian Beltre, Evan Longaria, Aramis Ramirez, Pablo Sandoval and Ryan Zimmerman who he all outperformed in 2012 at least (yes, Beltre & Ramirez may have had a slightly higher OPS but check out park effects and home / road splits and Wright comes out ahead if you level the playing field, let alone lineup protection).
In the context of today´s market, the Wright contract is absolutely fine. An athletic 30-year-old 3bman is about the best risk you can take with a 2nd generation 8-year contract. Barring further fluke injuries that can turn any longterm deal into a problem, Wright should remain productive at or close to his career averages well into his mid 30s.
For reference, check out the career paths of mid 30s players such as Beltre, Aramis Ramirez, Chipper Jones, Michael Young or Scott Rolen. Usually the decline phase only hits top 3bmen around age 36, i.e. into the final couple of years of Wright´s contract. By then his salary will take a steep decrease again and he´ll probably become more of a part-time player / legacy, quite possibly on his way to the Hall of Fame once all is said & done. He´ll also be the owner of pretty much every relevant Mets club record hitting wise in all likelihood.
Ok, you make good points, Xtreemicon, but so do i (i think). We’ll just disdagree on this. i hope i’m wrong. Just bothers me to sign an ok-F/A who won’t make a difference for us in ’13 and who just might be in the way in 2015 and beyond. He won’t be worth the remaining $$$$’s on his deal and this ownership has always been blinded by the light to proactively get rid of bad deals + i bet we won’t get a compensatory pick for the guy when he does leave (a favorite Boras trick).
i don’t like it, but hey, LGM!
I think what it comes down to is that I think the Mets can compete sooner than you do.
Aaaaannd… “He strikes out a lot”…
If fighting the rule would put you in a better position to be able sign quality guy they should have done it from the start. No reason not to. Waiting three months couldn’t have helped. May not matter but a guy with his eye on the ball doesn’t miss an opportunity to give himself more leverage. Whether he uses it or not. Asleep at the switch.
If you say so.
Sorry are the words to big for you
Waaah, waaah, waaah! We want our protected pick back! Waaah, waaah, waaah! No fair! Waaah, waaah, waaah!
You do root for the Mets, correct? Wouldn’t it be in their best interest to get this exception?
I thought the idea of having the replacement picks bumping a team back was ridiculous to start with. and entirely possible they address that in the future.
will they win this one? maybe not, but remember the rule, if you don’t ask, you don’t get! Worst that can happen is they say no.
But, if they are in position to get someone worthwhile on a doable deal, just pull the trigger and eat the pick.
Of course I root for the Mets. I’m just thinking it’s funny that a Harvard Lawyer like Balderson is playing the part of the violated bitch who says she was raped three months ago. I hope he doesn’t charge Park Avenue rates for his legal fees while delivering Coney Island Avenue results.
You’re dropping rape in an analogy? Really?
You aren’t pro-Met. You are Pro-spend, Anti-Sandy.
” I’m just thinking it’s funny that a Harvard Lawyer like Balderson is playing the part of the violated bitch who says she was raped three months ago. ”
I remember when you could make a point or even counter argument without being disgusting and going for the shock value.
What happened to you Maniac – do you think you sit at the cool kids table now? Talk about pathetic
How come it is horrid to call out the failed GM but wonderful to call out humans who do not live on his strings like you and cute jests up do?
There´s no button for disliking really offensive posts?
>>I don’t believe the Mets have a leg to stand on although I’ll be the first to say that new CBA Rule is ridiculous and unfair.
>>The Mets are being punished, but it may be their own closed-mindedness three months ago that will not get them a favorable ruling tomorrow.
Wait. So if they had made this protest 3 months ago, even though they don’t have a leg to stand on now and wouldn’t have then, …. what?
My thoughts as well.
Don’t know what the timing of filing for a ruling has to do with if this new rule is unfair or not.
Why should the Mets b e penalzied if a team failed to sign their draft pick (unless it was for some special circumstance like a serious medical problem for example). I would feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot. Who makes these stupid rules anyway?
Are you familiar with rules and contracts? Or are your Wilpons above the rules? Even the ones they agreed too?
not clear that they are asking for the rules to be changed (or bent) for them. More like, looking for an interpretive ruling (a clarification of a gray area?). Certainly reasonable to question the minutia to make sure.
I was only commenting on the fairness of the rule not the legality of it. There are a lot of stupid rules we follow because the law says so. I have been on multi lane highways with little traffic and wide open spaces yet the speed limit was 55mph. Obviously a STUPID speed trap. Get my point.
Well, if we lose the 11th pick of this year’s draft we can console ourselves with a top ten pick in next year’s draft.
Rebuilding takes time folks – so what if we have to wait a year or two more for good draft picks to become Cy Young winners and batting champions. After all, we won’t be tinkering or tweaking our club like the big boys do for another few years anyway.
We need to be a bit more patient.
I dont think it would of mattered three months ago. The rule is what it is and it was collectively bargained and agreed to by both sides last winter. Again, another non story. But it’s great drama.
Draft picks are highly suspect to begin with so losing a pick doesn’t get me to worried. In the NFL I think Ryan Leach was a first rounder and he just went to jail. I think Tim Tebow went in the first round too. Mike Piazza was passed over by every team and went in the supplemental as a favor to Tommy Lasorda. As a horse racing fan many horses that won over a million dollars in their careers were gotten out of claiming races for a few thousand dollars. Athletes aren’t horses but the principle is still the same. Hard to judge what an 18 year old kid is going to do when their 22 or so.
Hey Metfan Lou! Piazza was a 62nd rounder not supplemental pick. He was passed over by every team 61 times. lol
First rounders are generally the best bets. There are no sure things, but you can limit the variables.
Maniac, please read your email and don’t ever solicit gambling or betting money on this site ever again.
Do not do it. Not worth it.
Well the mets have really painted themselves in a corner now! Its like musical chairs and the mets are almost out! The only way the mets can get out of this mess without looking totally like cheap morons who don’t give a shit about there fans and have no clue is to sign Bourne and bring Travis D’arnaud north to Flushing to be the righthanded power hitting 5th batter they need so much to drive in runs and protect Ike Davis, or trade for Upton and hit him 5th! Bourne leads off Murphy hits second, Wright 3rd, Ike 4th, Travis or Upton 5th, and Duda 6th! ? 7th, and Rubin 8th, yes I said Rubin 8th cause with no power Murphy can’t hit 5th or 6th but he will make a great 2nd hitter behind Bourne! Not a bad lineup and with our young
pitching including Wheeler who will be here very soon the mets might be better than most people think? As far as the 11th pick goes it will take several years to find out if the pick will
pan out or not and instead we will have Bourne in CF stealing 40 plus bases leading off and playing great defense and another point is if we sign Bourne we won’t have to worry about
signing a CF next year! As far as our bullpen goes well thats a comment for another day!!
BREAKING: A source told FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal that there is “zero chance” the Mets will be willing to meet agent Scott Boras’ asking price for Michael Bourn.
https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/294291988830896132
____________________________________________________________________________
Ken RosenthalVerified
@Ken_Rosenthal
Either way, one person familiar with #Mets doubts team will meet Scott Boras’ price for Bourn. “Zero chance,” he said.
————————————————————————————————————————————–
Hehehehehehehe!!!!
IF the 11th pick gets protected, as is should be, perhaps the asking price will drop because, as it looks right now, the Mets are the only team involved.
MICHAEL BOURNE UPDATE:
Ken RosenthalVerified
@Ken_Rosenthal
Source: #Mets’ interest in Bourn sincere. Deal likely would be backloaded. Big $$ come off Mets’ books after ’13, new nat’l TV $$ kick in.
https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/294496482088873984
[...] Mets Seek Ruling From MLB To Protect Their First Round Pick [...]
Don’t see why the Mets are worried about a pick when they won’t sign anyone who cost them more than a steak dinner at Peter Luger’s.
Bourn is not even a fit for the team. The speed is but left handed and no power. The Mets need righties and some damned power.
Go after Upton and not overpriced garbage players. Or should I say stop pretending to go over these players.
Just lost Hairston who could have helped in some way. He’s not perfect but he helps.
I think that it would be easy for MLB to say that the rule was intended to protect the teams with the 10 worst records. Any team with a better record receiving a compensation pick for not signing a player would not receive compensation. Theoretically this could have been SF, Oakland, or Cincinnatti, not Pittsburgh.
That said, Bourne would be a good pickup for the Mets. Yes, he hits LH, but he´d be replacing a LH hitter in Nieuwenhuis. What he brings– defense, speed, doubles and triples, a leadoff hitter– are all badly needed by the Mets. And extending the lineup with Bourn leading off and having either Murphy, Tejada, or Baxter/Kirk/etc batting 8th-9th would be much better than what we have now (especially when D´Arnaud arrives and gets slotted in behind Ike).
Sorry– in the 3rd line I meant ¨would not receive protection¨, not ¨compensation¨.
Sandy is buddies with selig, who knows if it might help.. However, everyone in here KNOWS that if the mets didn’t pay $3 million for a serviceable right handed bat with power for 2 YEARS they sure as hell won’t pay this guy either and are just blowing smoke about the whole thing, so while the mets aere “IN” for bourn, look for them to somehow sign yet another guy noone’s heard of with some speed and the excuse makers for sandy will say “Yeah, this guy is perfect for us because he gets on base and has speed” while not looking at the guy’s whole body of work ala cowgill and the others PO’s we’ve acquired during this painfull and disastrous offseason…
You may be right about them not coughing up the dough, but are you really comparing Hairston and Bourn?
strange as it may seem to you, in Ave., Slg. and OPS. Bourn in 2012 was 274-391-739.
Hairston was 263-504-803.
Of course Bourn is a base stealing lead off hitter, but a weak hitter who struck out 155 times. He is worth more than Scott, but not 15 million a year when we couldn’t give Hairston 3/2 when he had better power numbers than David Wright, and we desperately needed a right handed power bat. And don’t give me the terrible fielder line; he played center field 12 times last year. And understand that Scott had only 377 at bats, 139 against lefties and 138 against righties. Eight of his 20 home runs were hit against righties. I rest my case. P.S. Scott stole 8 bases in 10 attempts.
They actually do have a leg to stand on. The rule is ridiculous, it’s simple, top ten picks get their pick protected, pirates get a comp pick for messing up last year, mets should get a protected pick for moving down for their mistake. And this should go for any team that happens to.
This.
The Mets – or any team in their position in future years – are being penalized for something out of their control – namely the Pirates not signing their first round draft pick last year.
It is but they are the rules. I think the Mets lose on this one.
I like Bourn for 3, 4 yrs max at 7-10mil a year. I don’t like him for 1 or 2 years if it means giving up the 1st rounder.
The Mets are RIGHT in this protest. They are getting hosed by a flawed rule. It’s not their fault Pittsburgh couldn’t sign Appel. Punishing them for it is ridiculous, I just wish they had maybe approached the subject sooner than the tail end of the off-season.
Bourn brings a defense to CF that cannot be ignored. He lessens the damage a guy like Duda does and whoever is in RF. He’s not a flashy hitter but he adds speed as well which is something the Mets badly need.
I like him, I don’t love him but signing him makes a lot of aspects of their team better (defense, speed, leadoff, pitching)
He’s worth more than 7-10. I’d give him 3 for 39 or 4 for 52.
I believe is his FMV is 4 years at 52M. I agree with you.
$13,000,000. a year for four years for 40 stolen bases next year and fewer the next, and fewer still the third year, and then …. well, you get the picture. He made under $7,000,000. last year. What makes him worth $13,000,000. each of the next four years?
I’d like him in center field at Citi, but he’s just not worth more than 7 or 8 million and that’s generous.
The fact that guys who are not as good as him got 13 Million and more in some cases…
Anyone worried about Money is either rooting for the WIlpons or has yet to figure out all that money you saved complaining about how much Reyes and Beltran and Dickey might cost got you nothing yet and never will!
I don’t get why anyone STILL believes that if we don’t spend money now we WILL spend it later…
Cause we have yet to spend a PENNY of what we didn’t spend on all those players you thought were getting you PAYROLL FLEXABILITY….
The only thing flexible about our payroll is that it is so thin it bends easy!
“I just wish they had maybe approached the subject sooner than the tail end of the off-season.”
To appeal during the current FA signing period is valid as I do not believe there is a statute of limitation.
The Mets did not want Selig to have to render an opinion id it was not applicable.
If fairness and equity come into play the rule should be amended to correct an unjust application.
You know all this talk of appealing to keep the pick is just more delaying tactic….
Another play to look like they might do something while people are still mulling over buying tickets….
He turned down a 13 Mil qualifying offer so your not getting him for less than that.
Sure they have an entire OF in Atlanta now but that just means the teams who wanted but didn’t get Upton will start looking at Bourne….
If the pick is the only thing holding up a deal then they have until June to make thier case to Seligula and should just go and get him before someone else steals him out from under him.
I personally don’t buy the Pick as the problem…They will not meet his price!
This is just smokescreen meant to keep people dreaming that Sandy has a surprise in store for us…
Can you someone explain why we are carrying Wright’s, Bay’s and Santana’s deferred money on this year’s payroll number? If they are counting it why not just pay it out and avoid paying the interest? Otherwise we will end up in a situation where we owe Bonilla $3.6mm yet he will pocket ~$30mm.
Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. This Bourn ‘Legacy’ rumor won’t go away. And hearing the Players Association would support the Mets move to protect their 1st Round pick if we forfeit the 2nd Round pick.
i don’t like deferred deals either. They mortgage the future. But i bet we don’t forfeit the #11 pick and i bet we sign Bourn.
Have to agree. There’s someone the Mets are looking at signing that would require giving up that first round draft pick. It’s the only reason they are now making an issue of it up to MLB.
I honestly have to wonder if Sandy thought the Mets had a decent shot on Upton?
Maybe….but the timing is suspect. This petitioning MLB came out just hours before they started reporting Upton to Braves trade, right?
I agree. That’s what I am saying. Sandy thinks he can get Upton, no mention of the protected pick, Sandy finds out can’t get Upton, moves to Bourn?
Could be. Maybe something changed with Bourn’s offer after Upton was officially traded to the Braves. I heard some rumblings from the Braves camp about trying to re-sign Bourn if they couldn’t get Upton.
Yeah, it’s kinda like how the stars aligned for the Mets and Johan with Bourn being the much less significant player of course. With everyone stepping out of the market it really only leaves the Mets and the M’s as favorites.
And what would you say if he DID!
Com’on you know Sandy is the smartest guy in the room and can run rings around the Marlins GM…LOL
Like I said all your predictions on what it takes to get Stanton is the same crap we heard when it was Upton….
He didn’t get close to what you guys thought he would.
Huh?
Perhaps it’s like the Wright deal and middle loaded. The Mets 2013 can’t afford squat but then 2014 and 2015 they can and then by 2016 players start costing again.
So perhaps it’s something like
4/48
4, 16, 16, 12?
More and more I am thinking Tony Campana and a right handed bat for right field. .
Well a backloaded deal does give them the option of trading him once Nimmo is ready….
Hey maybe Sandy will surprise me and sign Bourne and then trade Nimmo as part of a deal to bring Stanton here as well….
I am not going to pay attention to the last part because the Mets aren’t getting Stanton. However, like I said above if they middle load it then it could be very beneficial to the Mets. 4 year deal with a much higher rate in 2014 and 2015 would allow them to trade him in 2016 if needed and still be attractive enough to trade even earlier.
Anyone else getting the feeling that the Mets just got caught with their hand in the cookie jar? They were kicking the tires on Bourn and all of a sudden, Bourn’s like let’s talk. And it’s progressing faster and better than they anticipated. I feel like it went from a check-in call to oh crap, he thinks we can actually sign him. Very interested to see this one play out.
Let’s see: his price has obviously come down; he is better than any outfielder currently on the roster (he’s a good CF and gets on base, somthing the team needs); he’s only 30 (jeeze, guys, that’s not that old); backloading the deal looks forward to a time when the Mets financials should look better (they refinance these things anyway); the team will be better than all of the nay-sayers (Harvey is going to be the ace, Wheeler and D’arno (sp) will be in NY by May, Davis).
Sign him and let’s play ball.
If they were to sign Bourne, and sign Vazquez in addition to Marcum then as much as i despise Alderson i would admit that at least he’s trying to win this season. But he hasn’t done it yet. He hasn’t tried to win since he got here. Also signing Delmon Young at only 700K to replace Hairston would have been another good move to add to Bourne, Marcum, & Vazquez.
THAT would have been a team that would be starting to be interesting to watch. It would be nice to add a solid defensive CFer/leadoff hitter to help the young pitchers coming up. It may not win a World Series but it would raise the interest of Mets fans and maybe they’d slowly start to come back and spend MONEY.
If the monkey we have in charge as GM signs Bourne I will be shocked.
I have read and listened to a lot of non-partial radio and newspaper guys and all of them said there was no shot in hell the Mets or Yankees were going to sign Young even if he were free. I guess it’s possible that we don’t understand the situation there as much as others do. Personally I said I would have been interested but perhaps the PR hit was more than either team was willing to take. If you think about it, for 750K why the hell didn’t the Yankees sign him either? They too were looking for a RH bat. There has to be smoke to that fire.
As for Vasquez? I am not sold on that. Are you taking Gee out of the rotation and stashing him in the pen or in AAA? If you could get a guy that would be willing to pitch in long-relief to back up all the potential injuries but still allow those guys to start the season in the rotation I would be all for it. A guy like Tim Stauffer who excelled as a BP guy and a starter?
agreed, no clue what you do with Vazquez unless her will go to the pen?
and Young again? to recap, he is lousy defender, had microfracture surgey on his anklle, and likely won’t be ready for OD.
Also, his contract is likely more than 750K. There are a lot of incentives. Heck, he gets $600k just for making weight (and having to put in a weight clause is another red flag).
Signing marcum, good. Not signing young, also good. Passing on hairston, probably good, have to wait to see how the spot ends up being filled.
Hairston was a lousy defender too, you’re just replacing him with a guy who’s experienced quite a bit more responsibility as a player and this team needs that. As for nitpicking on the cash that is exactly what you’re doing – nitpicking.
hairston is fair. Young is bad.
and if you want to harp on how great of a deal young was, at least try to accurately represent his contract.
and the more responsibility item, what even is that? Experience? he’s been the man? Certainly can’t be anything related to character or morals!
but hard to imagine he was a big lynchpin to the Tigers opes, since they could not wait to broom him even though he was cheap.
The Tigers couldn’t wait to get rid of him? Is that news or just your opinion? It’s your opinion on what happened over there i’m sure.
Contract Shmontract – nitpicking on the exact amount a guy like this, in this context, and the amount we’re talking about is a translucent thing and a waste of time. He’s cheap at 700K or if he makes weight. You guys worry about that and I’ll concern myself with the big picture and that’s trying to win ballgames.
He played and excelled in some big ballgames for Detroit the last 2 years. He didn’t fold like a certain 138 million dollar golden boy has for this team. Delmon Young would have been a nice little addition TO REPLACE HAIRSTON so let’s keep it in context cuz i know you guys like to take things out of context. And he’s a righthanded bat. But i know you love the Bixler, Brown, Baxter, Lewis, Cowgill signings right? All fodder under the radar no harm no foul right?
Bullshit.
oh did i leave out any stipulations or incentives in Wright’s contract? If i did let me know because i’m sure it will change the point i am trying to make #sarcasm
Maybe one of the reasons they didn’t want him because they are getting Victor Martinez back? He would be their DH now, correct?
So, I think they “couldn’t not wait to broom him” because his spot is filled by Martinez.
He never said mets want to sign bourn to a long term deal, he said any deal would be back loaded and speculates that it will take 5 years for him. Come on now.
Get him signed Sandy!
5 years? Not likely or interested in that. If he loses a couple of steps, he has nothing.
if he needs 5/75 to wear a mets uniform, then enjoy the rainy days in seattle michael
Agree.
Yuk, in that case, the 1st round pick better be protected as 5-years, 75 million is very much “market value”.
While he’d be a nice fit, considering the need of a leadoff hitter and strong defensive CF, he’d be a solid fit. But don’t think such a signing makes sense if the 1st rounder is gone along with the money.
And if it’s backloaded, it better be more like Wright backloaded (low – high – low) than Bay like backloaded ( low – high – higher – highest)….
And if he’s signed the next step should be trading Duda or Nieuwenhuis ( and something) for a solid RHH starting OF…
Yes at that price only if we keep the #11 pick & the slot $$$$’s AND probably only if we backload his deal. i dislike these damned deferred contracts but he would fortify our OF defense. And maybe we get lucky, he has a couple grerat years and he’s tradeable at some point.
I do think we should see if Duda has any market value to an AL team. It’s time to emphasize ‘D’ to link up with our pitching. That’s the road to winning for us.
I agree with you that defense is important. Unfortunately, Alderson doesnt have the same outlook. He places little to no premium on defense.
It seems obvious to me that the Mets resemble the SF Giants and that, once our pitching ripens, we’ll win with a stron Defense supporting our strong pitching.
Another Sandy lover joins the Firm.
Welcome, please remember the secret handshake is secret.
…2 pumps & a wiggle… right?
What did I just say about secret?
This is why we can never have nice things.
ha. okay i’m bad.
Most I would go is 4/$52 mil, but prefer 3 years.
$15M a year is a fair price based upon the market, but I do not like the 5 years. 3 for $45M (or even $50M to sweeten the pot) with a team option is better but that most likely will not get it done.
And with Boras, you know both teams will be played off each other.
Michael Bourne, even with a lack of suitors, will not have to sign a backloaded contract that our beloved ownership seems to require of its players. They will NOT spend the money. Why Michael Bourne would want to sign with this team is beyond me. Our bottom feeding ownership and management continues to distinguish itself this off season… losing Scott Hairston to the Cubs and the #11 draft pick controversy filed nearly 3 months late… Nice job, guys. Woody Johnson isn’t the only owner running a New York clown show…
5 years $15 million per makes the decision easy. No. That’s too many years and too much money. If Sandy Alderson really has a plan, signing Bourn (who is 30, has no power, declining speed and a .339 lifetime OBP) would make a mockery of it. Front office embarassed that they couldn’t re-sign Hairston and the Braves got Upton? Good, they should be (and the Marcum signing today was not a coincidence). But don’t sign an aging player to a five year deal just to make a splash. Not to mention giving up the 11th pick in the draft.
they obviously were not anxious to have Hairston back (rightly or wrongly), certainly not for 2 years (maybe that was the deal breaker) but hard to believe they “couldn’t” get him back because they couldn’t match the offer from the Cubs at 3mill.
Bottom line…..Michael Bourn is a legitimate major-league outfielder that fills three holes…centerfielder, leadoff man, base stealer. I’m in.
You’re 66% right. He doesn’t fit the role of leadoff unless he steals over 50% of the bases that he K’s…. Nothing against Bourn, cause I like the the guy, just wish this was a different circumstance.
Bty the way, he doesn’t walk enough either.
5 years, $75 million? Hell no.
BJ Upton himself wasn’t worth that much money. The best Bourn will get between what my personal estimate of what he should get (3 years, $45 million) and what he’s asking for is the median of 4 years, $64 million. Anything beyond that is ludicrous.
Agreed….he wont get anywhere near 5 and 74.
I’d bet 4 and 55.
My guess was max 4 for 52, so 4 for 55 would be doable as well.
Met fans must learn to take the mutterings of sports writers like John Heyman with a grain of salt.
So let’s see.
R.A. Dickey – Gone
Josh Thole – Gone
Mike Nickeas – Gone
Kelly Shoppach – Gone
Rob Johnson – Gone
Jason Bay – Gone
Andres Torres – Gone
Scott Hairston – Gone
Ronny Cedeno – Gone
Chris Young – Gone
Mike Pelfrey – Gone
Ramon Ramirez – Gone
Manny Acosta – Gone
Jon Rauch – Gone
D.J. Carrasco – Gone
Pedro Beato – Gone
Miguel Batista – Gone
Fred Lewis – Gone
Other than R.A. the others won’t be sorely missed by my part.
Just waiting to see now if the Mets will attempt to sign Dariel Alvarez.
Ditto on Alvarez. And from that list, thee has to be a decent “addition by subtraction” bump available!
So it’s an upgrade from last year. He did say wholesale changes.
Buf it the plan is to have payroll flexbility and Michael Bourn does not help you win a pennant, why in the world would you sign him long term? There needs to be a happy medium between agonizing over cheap signs (Hairston) and then veering towards ludicrously overpaying Bourn in both dollars and years.
that is why IMO that 3 years makes a lot of sense, by 5 should be a non-starter.
We just got out from under all these contracts and now we go $15 million per for a leadoff hitter that we had absolutely no interest in all off-season? To me this is a half-assed sign to show you have money which has Jeff Wilpon written all over it.
Well you figure that Bourn was a slightly higher rated free agent than BJ Upton this offseason so they are going to get comparable money. I was figuring $15m per year but didn’t think a team would commit to 5 years due to his age. Hopefully the Mets won’t feel boxed into a corner and make a mistake with signing Bourn for the next five years…three years with a fourth year option is as far as I would go if I were Sandy. If Bourn passes on that then you make do with the young players and try to nab Grady Sizemore with a minor league deal or try to work out a trade with another team.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the reason why the Braves passed on Bourn to begin with was because they knew that getting BJ would increase their chances of landing Justin as well. The foresight the Braves used to pull these deals off was phenomenal. Have to tip your hat to them.
From Twitter:
Andrew Marchand @AndrewMarchand
Legal expert who works with MLB says he believes Mets wouldn’t have to relinquish 11th pick if they signed Bourn.
There maybe a way around it but I can’t be sure due not knowing the draft order…
Does the CBA says the picks of the bottom 10 teams is protected…
Or just that the first 10 picks in the draft are protected?
Because while the Pirates may get a top 10 pick they were NOT a bottom 10 team….
And since they have two picks in the 1st they could easily keep thier Comp top 10 pick and lose thier regular 14th if they signed someone away.
It may not be all that convincing but if the wording is based on team performance then we actually have a case to say We ARE a bottom 10 team….Even though you saw fit to knock us out of the top 10 of the picks.
“… A Club shall not be required to forfeit a selection in the top ten of the first round of the Rule 4 Draft, and its highest available selection shall be deemed its first selection following the tenth selection of the first round.”
This is the part of the CBA Rubin cites…nothing in there specifically about clubs or picks although it certain reads as picks in my interpretation of it.
And the relevant section would be in the rules regarding Draft order….
If the draft order is set based on team performance then the technicality is the Pirates are not drafting based on Team performance and as a Comp pick it should not be counted as a protected pick any differently than a normal Comp pick would be.
If this rule is upheld then here is what I suggest a team do….
Get a top 10 pick, Don’t sign it, Suck a lot and get another plus the one you got comped…
You now have two picks in the top 10 of a single draft
Being a lawyer myself, you can basically come up with a good case for either side here. This is a collective bargaining agreement where interests of players (and the MLBPA) and mlb franchises are sort of balanced with each other. Each side gives. Each side gets.
Now, let´s assume for a moment that one draft class is very weak and the following one looks like a once in a generation class. For strategic reasons, 5 of the top 10 teams “fail” to sign their early 1st rounder in the 1st year, in order to get a high compensation pick the following year. That would hurt the interests of free agents and thus of the MLBPA.
Plus, while the wording may seem clear at first glance, wording only is one aspect of judging law. The spirit and how negotations ended up with the wording play at least as much of a role as the exact wording. Since there should be protocolls of negotations it should be rather easy finding out if & how this situation was discussed back then. If it was and it was concluded that it´s bad luck for the team that gets bumped out of the top 10, then I suppose the Mets have a weak case. If it was overlooked or actually discussed but sort of forgotten to implement the Mets have a pretty good case.
It´s already been stated that the current set of rules has hurt free agents that received qualifying offers. So, you can expect a challenge of the current rule wording anyway. If the Mets really want Bourn, then maybe this is time for a little “payback” by MLB for all the adherence to slotting, etc. the Mets have played all those years.
It certainly won´t hurt having an experienced Baseball executive like Alderson with a law background in the FO in such a case as he´s basically seen it all.
And if he collaborates with Scott Boras, another rather qualified person in twisting the law towards his clients, maybe this has a chance to work.
The Mets & Bourn could also decide to agree on a flexible contract.
Say, 4-years, 48 million if the 1st round pick is gone and 4-years, 56 million with a 5th year option at 14 million if the 1st round pick is protected. Then the two sides could join challenging the rule with MLB. Not sure whether contracts like that are allowed though under the CBA.
And while Bourn actually is a pretty strong fit, he´s certainly a risky one too based on the fact that his value mainly rests with his strong legs (and strong CF defense).
The crack that the Mets need to exploit is not just in the intent but in the way the rules are written….
(I’m paraphrasing since I don’t have the direct quotes here)
Rule#1 – The draft order will be set based on the reverse order of how teams finished (worst to best )
Now what is the next rule noted? (I don’t know I’m asking)
A- Top 10 Picks are protected from being compensation?
or
B – How Comp picks are awarded?
If A comes first then it should apply to the picks who were top 10 before comp picks were awarded.
If B comes first then A can be interpreted as applying only after all the rest is said and done.
As for what the intention was for all of it while we think it was about being competitive, truth is probably closer to it was about MONEY!
You now have incentive to not sign your 1st rounder and have it carry over until next year.
Sort of meant as a hammer to use against Top Picks who want a big contract cause now you don’t have to worry about losing the pick over money as you will get it back the following year.
Which I think will be taken advantage of in weak draft years or with teams who don’t really like what they picked. Simply refuse to sign it and carry it over.
Imagine a team who picks late in the 1st round and wants to go on an FA spree next year…..
Don’t sign this year’s pick and don’t sweat the loss next year when you sign someone. Because you now have two picks in the 1st and will only lose one.
Joe, I have to respectfully disagree with your article. As I saw earlier, Andrew Marchand tweeted earlier, an attorney that works closely with MLB has said that Mets would likely win appeal. This why people like Adam Rubin shouldn’t try to practice law. I have been an attorney for over 15 years and I can tell you that just because a lay person believes they can read the literal interpretation of something doesn’t mean that that is how to legally interpret a contract. The Supreme Court has not been strictly construing laws for decades. In this particular case the reason the Mets have a good shot at winning is because the spirit of the CBA is to protect the picks of the teams with the ten worst records so that they have a competitive advantage in signing top free agents. The Mets are being penalized because the Pirates did not sign Mark Appel. The end result as presently constituted is antithetical to what both parties anticipated in the CBA. Is it a slam dunk that the Mets win a favorable ruling? Not necessarily, but what I would say is that in collective bargaining situation such as this it is more likely that the spirit of the law would supersede the literal interpretation of the law.
Great insight, thanks Mark. Otherwise, it seems to mme that MLB would be incenting the weaker teams to downbid their top draft picks since they’d do no worse than pick the next year 1 slot down from where they were, causing a potential traffic jam of teams not negotiating honestly and damaging the draft prospects of other equally weak franchises. That would be no way to run a business.
Funny Rubin didnt present himself as a legal expert but did make a compelling case why MLB will not favor the Mets. The commissioners office is beholden to the owners which means salary suppression wherever possible.
As for citing what an attorney says, remember, in ever case in front of a judge and jury, there is always an attorney who is wrong.
“In every case there is an attorney who is wrong?” Really? There is always a winner and loser, however, that does not mean that the attorney that loses is wrong. Statutes and case law and how they are interpreted determine the outcome of a case. Just because the law is against someone and an attorney fights for an untenable position that does not mean that they are ignorant about the law or are wrong. Some cases are clear cut, some are arguable, and some involve issues that have been yet to be resolved by a court. It is not as easy as saying that in every case the side that doesn’t win is wrong.
Interesting. Thanks for the attorney perspective.
I’m not really sure why Rubin or any beat writer would spend that much effort digging through the CBA and it’s regs. Though maybe when he reported on it, he wanted to sound at least halfway like he knew what he was talking about. I’ll give him an A for effort on that.
I agree with Mark here. The intent of the rule is to give the 10 worst teams from the previous season a competitive advantage by protecting their first round picks. Counting compensatory picks against the top 10 picks and thereby denying a bottom-10 team a protected pick goes against the intent of the rule. If they go by the intent and “spirit” of the rule then, they should decide in the Mets’ favor.
The rule should be rewritten to adequately reflect its intent,
“So unless the union pushes the issue hard on Scott Boras’ behalf, MLB has no incentive to reinterpret the rule. Even a push from the union may go nowhere because MLB has no incentive to budge”
Really…????
Didnt the commishs office saddle us with SA to try and dig the franchise out from under the crazy ass deals the previous GMs had made?
Im sure SA cant zip his fly w/o the commisioners approval & Im sure that if the commish thinks this will help the Mets, they’ll make an “exception” and allow the #11 to be protected.
The Mets are like a bass in a lake swimming by the wax worm, they make a big deal about biting, do everything but hump the lure, but in the end they’ll put the lure in there mouth and spit it out…This wreaks of leaking info to sell tickets…give more false hopes. Maybe they are trying to lower prospect demands in a deal they have cooking. No offense to anyone intended, but Alderson and his staff are as adept as the Nazis were with propaganda. No i’m not calling them nazis, just their propaganda to them…if you leak and tell lies to the fanbase, perception and lies, become…reality. Bourne will not be a Met. Please wake up and smell the coffee folks, it’s all PR to remove the focus from the fact that your outfield is what it is…Sandy “Well we tried and were willing to spend, but the draft pick which is supposed to have been protected, wasn’t and at this stage of our plan”…yada yada … More horseshit… ” but we’d like everyone to know we’ve acquired Brennan Boesch for 2 prospects… You will see…more horseshit. Alderson and company have been shoveling more horseshit than Wilbur Post, and make more ridiculous statements than Mr. friggin’ Ed….
In other words it’s lose lose. It’s either why am I not hearing the Mets trying to get said player or I don’t believe the rumors it’s just an attempt to sell tickets or take the focus away from something else.
Got it.
Such is the delusions of persecution that so many Mets fans suffer from. SMH
Yes, those who say the Mets will not get Bourn are delusional. Because there is so much evidence that the Mets have signed any free agent for more than $12 mil total in last three offseasons. Must be nice living in your world.
In the end the best thing that could happen is someone else snaps up Bourne leaving one less team to be willing to make an offer on Stanton…
And then HIS price in prospects goes down.
Hi Joe D,
I think what Adam Rubin wrote is evidence that Sandy’s protest is pure theatrics for Met fans.
As you point out, Rubin explains expanding the pool to 11 sets a precedent and theoretically would drive up Bourn’s price by adding another bidder who would not be worried about losing a first round draft pick and that in itself is not “a precedent MLB would desire, since it represents 30 owners, who have an interest in keeping salary costs contained”.
I am sure Sandy is well aware of the legality of the wording and that he would be going up against many fellow owners.
Another thing to consider is that time is against Sandy as well. The issue is going to be debated and not settled overnight for, if nothing else, the clubs competing for Bourne’s services will not want an additional team (the Mets) to come in and ante-up the bidding even more. (though I have a hunch the other teams don’t take the Mets seriously I don’t think they are prepared to take that risk).
Sandy knows this too. He is too smart an individual and too astute a lawyer not to know whe is going up against something that has little chance of succeeding – at least while Bourne is still a free agent. He is also no dope – the Mets know only to well how they can orchestrate this action to make it appear they were willing to spend money but couldn’t due to the loss of a first round draft pick.
Unfortunately, one has to take into account that this organization deals in corporate deception and the reasons behind it. Just another sad statement as to what this once great franchise has turned into.
I guess not everyone is ignorant or willfully blind on this site. You nailed it, bub.
Hi Roxie,
Let’s look at this even further.
It didn’t take anybody by surprise, either. These rules were in place for a very long time. They had to be vetted and then ratified by the owners and the players union. Even during the prior year’s free agency signings we were reading about changes in the draft pick selection being made in relation to free agent signings. Not being privy to the negotiations, we don’t know what the owner’s gave into the players in order for this article of the agreement to be approved by them. But both parties knew what the implications of this would be.
Sandy might have been caught off guard by Pittsburgh knocking us off the protected list – but that is the extent in which he was taken back by surprise. He knew before October29 that the Mets were placed as number eleven in the draft (that was only the day the sequential order of selection was announced publicly). It wasn’t a matter of Pittsburgh suddenly pushed into the top ten later on. If it was in the Mets best interests, they would have addressed this issue immediately and get the decision over with as soon as possible so they would know how to proceed.
And as Joe D. points out, unless the union pushes the issue hard on Scott Boras’ behalf, MLB has no incentive to reinterpret the rule for less competition often results in the owner’s favor.
No, there is no way to justify Sandy doing this now. The proper time for that was when he found out that number ten was suddenly number eleven.
Why do it for show? Exactly for the reason why we are having this discussion. For many it now appears as if the Mets want to spend money but can’t at the risk of losing out of a first round draft selection.
And they file it now and suddenly express interest in a 30 year outfielder demanding a five year contract in the range of $15 million a year and could very well be in decline the next few seasons due to his reliance on the stolen base and speed? A player with no power, a .272 lifetime batting average, an average 55 walks in 626 plate appearances and in 2011 with 722 plate appearances walked just 53 times which amounted to an OBP of just 55 points above his batting average, eleven point below the league average of 66.
Does that even sound like the type of player Sandy wants with his PPA, get on base conscious team methodology?
Take care, “Bub”.
Hi Roxio,
Sorry I called you Roxie by mistake.
- Bub
I’m going to guess and say MLB will rule in the Mets favor, should the Mets continue to push the issue. Because if they don’t change it, then leaving the current interpretation in place would open the door for a lot more unjust and unintended results in the future.
Say in 2013, the teams picking 4th, 5th, and 6th fail to sign their first-rounders. At the end of the 2013 season those teams finish with the 10th, 11th and 12th best records in baseball. In 2014, those 3 teams would have top 10 compensatory picks, but they would then force the 8th, 9th, and 10th worst teams from 2013 all out of the top 10 “protected pick” category. It would appear that this would clearly be against the spirit of the rule as originally intended.
Regardless what happens, I don’t think giving Bourn 5 guaranteed years is a good idea. Three or 4 years with a vesting option should be the max they offer.
Under further review but when: Fairness and equity and the intent of the rule requires at least further review if nothing else. Clearly; ” in the best interest of baseball” competitiveness of the teams is in the Mets favor: Let’s say it was the WS champs SF Giants instead of Pittsburgh Pirates bumping the Mets out of the 10th slot. That clearly is not in the intent and spirit of the rule to be exempt from losing a draft pick and helping a poor club trying to become competitive. In effect the Pirates hijacked the Met’s exemption. This rule will definitely be changed either now or subsequently when it is ultimately further reviewd.
True. Due to the problems of some key free agents such as Lohse, Soriano, Swisher or Bourn below “elite” status to find a new team due to the CBA restrictions, the MLBPA figures to ask for a review of these rules anyway. Considering how easy it would be to at least alter the interpretation of the existing rules, this figures to be an easy change. Whether it happens now or later. Add in the “spirit” of the protection rule – give weaker teams a better chance to get better again more quickly – the Mets do have a pretty strong case here. Whether you´d say the odds to win are 50 % or 75 % or whatever.
It still doesn´t mean that signing Bourn to a 5-year deal is a good idea. It certainly is not based on the risk attached to him.
However, Bourn certainly is superior to a player like Shane Victorino who received 3-years, 39 million while being a couple of years older and at a pretty similar level to BJ Upton who is a year & a half younger who received 5-years, 75 million. If you split the median ground between these two contracts, you get to 4-years, 57.0 million $ as being a justifyable mid-point. Anything above that figure would seem rather excessive and not worth the risk. Anything below that length or annual value should make it quite intriguing, depending on the draft pick situation.
Hi Metro,
That ruling change can’t apply to this year because it changes the rules in mid season.
That is why I said Sandy had to pursue this from the beginning if he really felt it important to the Mets this season.
One thing occurs to me. I have been looking for statements from Sandy as to why he is pursuing changes to the rule at this time. Sandy might not at all be doing this to give the Mets any late advantage to get Bourne or some other free agent strategy. He might be doing this for he recoginzed the problem the rule in it’s current state and wants it addressed for the future.
If that is the case, then I owe Sandy an apology for insinuating he is trying to make a grandstand play — it’s actually the media and the Met fans who are making this a point of contention.
Hi DrD.,
Glad to know you are a lawyer and can help out in a valid legal interpretation of things.
BTW – I am more a fan of the “spririt” of the law rather than the “letter” of the law myself.
We still do not know why Sandy only waited for now to file his protest – not in late October when he found out Pittsburgh moved the Mets out of their protected slot. Where was Sandy’s “spirit” to follow the “letter” of the law then? Don’t comment about yourself, please, however, have you as a lawyer seen maneuvers like this made for outside purposes – like for show to make an impression about one’s own self or for those he or she represents for publicity seeking?
You know we can discuss and argue the finer points of Legal semantical Interpretation all we want but if we all subscribe to the notion that a 1st rounder who is unproven and not a factor for the next 4 years is more valuable to you than a PROVEN MLB player who helps now and 4 years from now as well….
You got MUCH BIGGER problems than how some rule is interpreted!
Sometimes I wonder what goes through Collins’ mind.
Sandy Alderson’s orders are what goes through his mind
You beat me to the punch there Bay!
2013 Mets outfield: A baker’s dozen of left-handed, leftfielders who can’t hit.
Throughout all this muttering over the semantics of the CBA rulings, wouldnt it be crazy if Justin Turner was secretly working on his OF skills and came into ST rocking the glove out there?
We know hes a clutch hitter with a good eye at the plate who works pitchers for 6,7,8 pitches per AB.
That would be a great asset, Im surprised when I read hes never played an outfield game, you would have thought we could have thrown him out there last septmeber just for shit$ & giggles to see what he could do.
It’s not a big stretch to say that Justin Turner beat Lucas Duda out for the best fielding Met LF as far back as two years ago!
Before anyone thought he would pick up an OF mitt…LOL
Enough of the garbage already. Just play Harvey out there on days he is not pitching. He should already be good at shagging flies, and he’s got a better bat than either of these two homeless infielders.
TC’s comment is so nosensical, i refuse to get exercised over it. So there!
Zach Lutz it is!!!!!! The thought of Bourn should be ABORTED!!!!!
Outfield? What outfield? ! LOL! Seriously, to have some money to spend and be left with this embarrassment of an outfield is, well, embarrassing. Thanks Sandy. Let’s see how long his jokes last once he sees just how awful this group really is.
Hey, we’ve got what we’ve got & we can only hope for the best.
Heres the “nuts & bolts” of it:
-Neuwenheis is a good defensive centerfielder w/speed, he wasnt sent to the minors
because of his OF play, it was because of his bat.
-Baxter plays a decent OF too, we just have to see if hes durable for a whole season.
-Duda’s awful in LF, but CAN offset that w/a monster year at the plate.
Too optimistic….?
“The Mets GM said it’s possible that he will go into camp with just the current group of outfielders ”
Well it’s not like he can say to the MLB sorry we are sitting out this year….
If the pickings are so slim I wonder why we are in a situation where they are so thin considering this was one of the strongest OF markets in recent history!
Oh Right we were waiting for the Market to settle…
And now we are going into the season with a pile of dust in the OF!
METS FANS DO NOT WASTE YOUR HARD EARN MONEY ON THE METS ,ALL THE WILPONS WANT IS YOUR MONEY WHILE PUTTING AN INFERIOR PRODUCT ON THE FIELD.ALDERSON SIMPLY DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE TEAM IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM! HEY SANDY MET FANS ARE NOT STUPID. I HOPE MET NATION BOYCOTT CITI FIELD THIS SUMMER YOU DESERVE IT AND I MEAN THIS SINCERELY.
No news here because SA really did not try to engage in getting a RH bat here, other than the can’t be done deal that D Backs wanted for Upton, I don’t see why BJ was not an option.
How can SA really say this and expect fans to say really we thought you were working a major deal to bring in that RH power bat needed, not to say the BP has yet to be addressed.
BP will probably be other teams cut pitchers, hey might as well go for cheap talent if you don’t want to spend any money.
This is so sad that fans, ones I’ve heard, don’t believe a word that he says because he is good at the end of the game excuse instead of trying to be part of the game itself, not a Monday Morning QB!
Shame!