9
2012
Where Does Wilmer Flores Wind Up Now?
An article by 
Pete asks:
Now that David Wright will be our third baseman until 2020, what is the future of third base prospect Wilmer Flores? Do you think he’ll be moved to the outfield, or will he be traded?
Sean Kenny replies:
First – Wilmer Flores and outfield should not be mentioned in the same sentence unless it is at the end of the statement “Wilmer Flores with a hard hit into”. Flores does not possess the foot speed to even foresee being anything but a below average fielder, which would require his bat be that much more potent and powerful.
Second, Flores could be traded but I don’t see a world where the Mets cannot find a place for Flores’ bat. He has taken reps at every infield position, and that can add to his value. Many hypothetical scenarios have been thrown around, making Wilmer a super-utility guy for 400+ AB a season, making him the full-time second baseman (despite lack of experience and slow feet), or platooning him with Ike Davis at first base.
Flores is all speculation at the moment, and a season at Triple-A to see how good his bat is will determine the future for Flores. In my opinion, if Murphy is a below-average/average second baseman with little pop, with more reps could Flores become a better future option for the Mets?
If he were to be traded, it would have to be for a huge package, considering his place as the Mets best position prospect (by a wide margin) and the fact he is still so young. Even if he didn’t take an AB for the 2013 Mets, he could be a pivotal player for the 2014 Mets. Only time will tell.
About the Author: Sean Kenny
Sean Kenny is a student/writer currently attending school at the City College of New York. For more Mets news, notes and thoughts follow him on twitter @TheSeanKenny
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Thanks to that stupid extension that we see now was only made to save $8 more million, the mets will have to end up trading him, at 2B this kid will be too slow imo, i know his bat will be good and all, but with wright extension i doubt flores will be a met. 2 Errors in 1 unfortunately
David is a TEAM PLAYER !!!
David Wright moves to RF so we can have Flores remain in the organization
I’ve been looking for a forum to put my two cents in concerning moving Wright to the outfield. I’ve seen Flores and I don’t think he can play second and I doubt he can play in the outfield so, if the Mets don’t trade him they need to maximize what they have. Flores can play 3rd adequately and DW is the type of athlete who can play in the outfield. He can run and he can throw (maybe not a RF arm). Heck Chipper did it for a few years and the Braves benefitted from that move. Just a thought.
Why oh why did they resign David Wright. I mean I do actually get it. Wright is the face of the team. The average fan that comes to a ball game wants to see the star of the team so Wright was signed to be a lifelong Met and fans will buy seats to see him play. But if selling tickets is what’s important shouldn’t the plan be to out the best possible team out on the field. Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t the Mets supposed to be rebuilding? Does Sandy know how to rebuild a team?
Lets look at Flores as if we’re not our prized prospect but belonged to another team. If we had the opportunity to acquire Flores as apart of a bigger package for Wright with the likes of say a Dylan Bundy or Gerit Cole or position players like Profar or D’arnaud wouldn’t we love the addition of Flores and be glad to have him as the future 3rd baseman?
My point is that Flores is the kind of player we should be looking to acquire but we are fortunate enough to already have him. Now that Wright has been extended Flores has no position to fill on this team and will be an undervalued throw in involving more players or just a steal or an overall steal for another team because he isn’t valued as much outside of Queens but will have to be eventually dealt.
Wright should have been dealt for a nice package that included a blue chip prospect but also players such as Flores for the overall benefit of the team. The Mets should be rebuilding and using its assets to acquire young players that can one day become the new face of the team. Fans love stars but they want to see them win. If the Mets aren’t going to build a team that competes before 2015 then Wright should have been dealt. Now they might as well keep Dickey and trade prospects for win now players or else instead of fielding the beginning days of a championship team in 2015 the Mets will doing this all over again putting us through miserable hell for years to come
According to Jon Harper, it’s likely ownership wanted Wright extending while SA probably wanted to trade him.
Also, he goes on to state SA is probably looking to extend Dickey and ownership would rather trade him:
‘Again, what’s the problem? It doesn’t appear the Mets are merely stalling while gauging the trade market. Instead, there seems to be a split in the front office as to whether to trade Dickey or not, and indications are that GM Sandy Alderson is in favor of signing him.’
‘Some Mets people even hint at some sort of behind-the scenes issue between Dickey and ownership that has had an impact on negotiations.’
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/haper-mets-team-knuckle-pact-article-1.1215205
Assuming that Flores continues to develop well as he climbs through the minors and remains a 3B blocked by Wright then like other teams have done in the past when faced with a similar situation he can be traded to fill another area of need if and when that time comes.
Lots of memories about established players being traded for can’t miss prospects.
The top prospect in the Oriole chain about 45 years was first baseman Mike Epstein. Unfortunately, that was the only position he could play and it was already anchored by Boog Powell. The Orioles wound up trading him for starting pitcher Pete Richart, who had won 29 games the prior two seasons for the lowly Washington Senators.
Epstein went on to have a nice but not spectacular career nine year career in the majors, averaging about 23 home runs a year and was a part of the first Oakland string of great teams in the early seventies. But Met fans might remember Richart as the Oriole reliever who’s throw fielding his sacrifice bunt hit J.C. Martin in game four of the 1969 world series scoring Rod Gaspar from second to 1) give the Mets a 3-1 game lead in the series, 2) give Tom Seaver his first world series victory, and 3) answered Frank Robinson’s question “who’s Rod Gaspar”.
After the 1966 season, the Mets traded their best starting pitcher to date – Dennis Ribant – to Pittsburgh. Though they got Don Cardwell in return, the deal was really to get another “can’t miss” prospect, Don Bosh, to play center. I was sitting in field level box seats between home and first for a late April Sunday doubleheader against Pittsburgh and saw on his face after taking a called strike three that Bosh looked totally lost at the plate. He wound up a total bust and finished his brief career with a lifetime batting average that rivals Chin-lung Hu. Soon afterwards Ribant faded into obscurity. Will also admit me and friends bought general admission tickets but sneaked into those seats undiscovered – don’t tell anybody!
No harm in keeping Flores at AAA and having him toggle b/w 2nd and 1st base. Then, we’ll have all of 2013 to evaluate Davis, Murphy and Flores and see how those pieces fit for 2014, the year when the rubber hits the road.
Sometimes its best to do nothing.
How about this plan:
Jon Niese and Wilmer Flores for Travis D’Arnaud and Anthony Gose.
Sign either Ryan Ludwick or Cody Ross.
Extend Dickey.
Now all of a sudden you added two outfielders and a catcher.
Duda, Nieuwenheis, Baxter not going to cut it. Josh Thole definitely not going to cut it.
I’d do that but would prefer to keep Niese and trade Wheeler instead. We dont have any LHP’s on the way to replace Niese.
Trade Wheeler? You must be kidding…
I think by the time the trading deadline approaches we start to see them look to move Murphy and promote Flores.
Agreed Metsie. That should be the plan, but with these geniuses you just never know.
Well it will depend on Flores’ PPPA metrics! LOL
Has anyone that says Flores foot speed is too slow to play second or the outfield actually seen him play? This is what I hate about the internet. One person says something and then a thousand mindless shrills repeat it as if it is then somehow true. I have never seen Flores play but doesn’t it stand to reason that if he had absolutely no speed he never would have played shortstop? I think that everyone one needs to take a step back and let things play out this year with Flores and see what the Mets have.
“Though Flores always has shown offensive upside, his position remains in doubt. He’s a 20 runner on the 20-80 scouting scale, and his heavy feet severely limit his range at third base. His hands are fine and he has a strong arm, but his lack of speed leaves first base as his only other option if he can’t handle the hot corner.” – J.J. Cooper from Baseball America
He could be wrong though. I’ve never seen him play.
I can assure you that at least five of us on MMO have seen him play personally numerous times. I myself have seen Flores three times at Binghamton this past season, and I know Tim Burns has seen him 15-20 times at Binghamton where he lives and covers all the home games. Most of our minor league staff is on hiatus in the offseason, but we have 4-5 people that cover the many of the Mets minor league games live. Flores has feet of lead and an infielders arm.
“Has anyone that says Flores foot speed is too slow to play second or the outfield actually seen him play”
YEP!
And most of the guys who have covered the MiL system for this site have agreed with that!
I have quite a few times. When he was playing shortstop the word I would use to describe him is clumbsy. The kid can hit though. Terrific eye at the plate and the ball jumps off his bat.
nadie le da el valor que verdaderamente tiene murphy es uno de los mejores en el plantel deberia de tener mas respeto a tenido temporadas muy buenas esa es mi opinion
Great response Sean. I would have responded the same way as you did. However, I do think Flores will push the envelop by July of 2013. He has this uncanny ability to quickly adjust at a level even when playing against competition much older than him. It just shows how dynamic his bat speed is and particularly the power he generates from that stance.
It would be great to bat with him. There’s a charity auction ending soon that gives 4 friends a chance to practice with the Mets and ticket to a game. Awesome! http://bit.ly/UsFw0M
Slow feet, good arm, good hands, good bat. HMMMMM can he crouch? LOL
‘If he were to be traded, it would have to be for a huge package, considering his place as the Mets best position prospect (by a wide margin) and the fact he is still so young.’
He might be the Mets best position prospect right now, but where does he rank among the top 100 prospects in baseball? Is he pretty high up there?
He wasn the top 100 three straight years, 2009-11, . 47th, 88th and 59th.
Should say he was in top 100
Sorry Sean. The Mets say that Flores doesnt have the range for 2nd base. He is a corner guy.
Go Go Gadget Trade Bait!
Point was he has better range at second base than Murphy does.
Jon Niese and Wilmer Flores to KC for Wil Myers..
Deal will get done, once some pieces are moved off the board. We have Anabel going to KC. Isn’t he pricey? That’s not KC’s MO and they’ve already signed checks to get Guthrie signed + other moves. i think their budget ‘cap’ may begin to choke them a bit.
I don’t want to give up Niese but I would make the Floes/Niese for Myers trade. I would do it but it is not a slam dunk for either side.
We have bigger needs at SS / 2B /C and CF
Corner OF are a nice to have, but u have to have up the middle solidified first if u want to win
I would trade Dickey + Niese + Murphy if meant locking up a top SS, Catcher and CF
locking up a solid SS moves Tejada to 2B…effectively improves the defense at 2 positions.
The Red Sox are looking for a 1B…I would trade Murphy + Kirk for Iglesias. Start Iglesias at SS, move tejada to 2B
The Sox will be looking for young OF to replace Ellsbury with soon
Hi Just,
And as we all know, had Sandy kept Reyes at short, Pagan in center (crazy horse and all) – both in the prime years of their careers – and Beltran in right (who is still going strong as we know) we wouldn’t be in the situation we now face.
Alas, of all the words of paper and pen, the saddest are “what might have been”.
Water under the bridge now, of course, but still a reflection of the mindset of this front office and what to expect in the future.
We had all those guys and we weren’t all that much better. Below 500 with all of them.
We didn’t have the pitching then we have now….
Niese, Dickey, Harvey, Gee….
Something all you guys who use that as an excuse forget.
2006-2008 were all competitive but not enough due to the lack of starting pitching.
Pitching we now have!
Ahhh so that was the plan. Keep the same sub 500 team together until 2013,2014 until Niese, Harvey, Gee and Wheeler hopefully develope along with Dickey to form a formidable staff meanwhile nobody still showing up while that staff developes and ownership continues to take a bath in millions of dollars worth of losses.
Actually that’s a great idea since the Wilpons probably would’ve been forced to sell the team. Unfortunately they wanted to keep the team.
The better plan would’ve been to have the pitching to go along with a good lineup at the same time not 5 years apart. Then again that lineup wouldn’t have gotten it done anyway with the stigma of 2 straight choke jobs hanging over their head every time the calender struck September.
” 2006-2008 were all competitive but not enough due to the lack of starting pitching”.
2006 they had enough pitching to win the division going away. 2007 they had enough pitching to build a 7 game lead with 17 games to go. 2008 they had enough pitching to build a 4 game lead in the loss column with 9 to play. What they lacked was heart and guts.
Prove it would have been the same .500 team with a Cy Young Pitcher and Niese, Harvey and Gee in the rotation!
Can you? NO!
Because you traded away all the other good guys because you WRONGLY thought we would not have the pitching to win…
BUT WE DID!
What do we need right now?
Power RH bat…CF….Right?
What did we trade away HOPING to fill holes?
Power RH Bat and a CF!
Did we fill any holes?
Which one the 5th Pitching spot in the rotation?
Closer?
The Power RH bat and CF that we orginally did NOT need but now do because of your wrong headed thinking you were going to accomplish something by trading good players and keeping the crap?
Can you prove they would’ve been better than a 500 team? That team choked with 2 Cy Young award winners in 2008 . In 2010 the staff was 6th best in the NL with Santana, Niese Dickey, Pelfrey and Takahashi and a lineup consisting of Reyes, Pagan, Beltran, Wright, Davis, Bay, Francouer, Castillo and Barajas and your so called allstar closer and a bullpen you think was good and they finished under 500.
In the meantime while you kept that team together, you were forced to sell the team cause nobody showed up while you were waiting for that pitching staff to develope and you lost 50 million then 70 million and then 90 million in 2012 as you kept that 145 million dollar 79 win team together waiting.
It’s like saying If the 2000 teams bullpen was on the 2006 team they would’ve went all the way. Too bad you can’t .
I also find it funny how you’re calling Ike Davis, Tejada, Wright, Duda, Murphy, Gee, Niese Dickey all crap since those are the guys we kept. I don’t see how Beltran, Pagan and Reyes make all that much a difference if the rest of the team is crap which is what you’re saying.
Yes I CAN!
They were above .500 when they traded K-Rod and Beltran.
The year PELFREY was our Ace!
They were above .500 Due to the Pitching this year and WHY did it fall apart?
That Merry Go Round in CF, Lack of a Closer, and the missing Powet Hitting RH Batter we had in RF before we traded Beltran…
So YES Not can I prove it I JUST DID!
Except for the fact that the season is 162 games and those 4 players subtracted never finished a 162 game season above 500 as a group which is my proof. Even witth a pitching staff. All while outspending the rest of the NL.
No they never finished above .500 in 2006-2008?
2009 and 2010 did not feature the guys from that group did it they were hurt!
Did not feature the Pitching staff of 2012 either did it?
Why were they under .500?
Because Beltran was an ALl star?
Because K-Rod was on a pace for 40 Saves?
Or because they didn’t have the starting pitching and if they waited one year they would have got it and then be FAR ABOVE .500 this year!
You were wrong to think they were the reason we were under.500..
You were wrong to think getting rid of them would make us better or fill a hole…No Holes has been filled and the team is actually WORSE!
Bingo !
This from the guy who complains people didn’t treat Beltran well because he was Latino, and White Fans wanted him gone….
Now Agreeing with a guy who says Beltran wasn’t worth keeping and who is aurguing with the White guy who says he was and all the other Latinos as well…
Tsk Tsk JDD you have become the thing you despise!
How is David Wright our franchise player…when he cant even consider a move to another position?
Chipper Jones?
3B who moved to the OUTFIELD and then back to the infield…no problem….and David is faster than him…
Albert Pujols? Put the kid anywhere…he does just fine…LF – 3B – 1B…
Ryan Bruan – 3B – cool… outfield…cool….whatever coach…
Carlos Beltran – the media was HOPING for a controversy….nope…mr team player showed his leadership by not only moving to RF…but helping Pagan and Duda with their OF skills….proceeds to adjust to his new position by continuing to be the BEST PLAYER on the team ( sorry Snow Wright fans )
http://metsblog.com/metsblog/talk-surfaced-of-switching-david-wright-to-lf/
Is there any reason why David Wright cant move to the OF ( a place where we need more offense ) to fit Murphy and/or Flores ????
damn, a great idea. Y not?!?
What evidence is there that Wright can play the OF any better than Murphy did?
If you want to try and fit a round peg into a square hole, you’re better off doing it in the minors.
I think we’ve had enough guys trying to learn a new position and/or playing out of position on the big club over the past few years. That practice needs to stop.
I dont know but the Mets might try this during spring training? Or put Murphy at 3rd, Turner at 2nd and Wright in RF in the 7th when the game is over because the Mets are 5 runs up or down. Plenty of time to figure things out during the season. IF the above happens then you know what might happen to Flores next year.
Perhaps Wright talked with Sandy about the move to RF when Flores is ready in 2014 and let the kid play a few years. Trade Flores after those few years and move Wright back to 3rd.
Wright does have the speed and arm so to me it is worth a try to get Flores into the line up next year because of the bat he has.
Maybe….
But the scouting reports I’m reading don’t lean too favorable for Flores’ defense at third. Slow, heavy footed, etc. He projects 1st base as his best position. Based on that, kind of reminds me of Duda – who I wouldn’t want to see playing 3rd either.
I do appreciate how you never let details get in the way of a good rant. Braun was a 3b in the minors and never played a game of outfield in the minors. He played his rookie season at third and committed 26 errors in a little over 100 games and has never played there a game since.
Are you insane???
Haven’t you expressed here on MMO what a GOD awful mistake is was for the Mets to move Reyes over to 2nd to accomodate Matsui??? So why would you suggest moving Wright. Oh wait, I get it now….Reyes…..Snow Wright. At least be consistent in your convictions and don’t flip flop depending on who it is. So damn transparent its sickening.
Nope, never said moving Reyes was a mistake.
if ur gonna put something in my mouth, let it be food or a female…not words
thank u
to the moderator:
why is it ok for a poster to call david wright SNOW WRIGHT? Dont you think this will offend some people here?
Hi Ray,
I agree with you but suspect this is more a reverse-backlash against those with the false conception that Omar patronized Hispanic players and that ownership being aware of this, the Met organization is now intentionally trying to appeal more to the Caucasian audience as if we were still living in the stereo-typed squeaky-clean America of the fifties.
Whatever one might think of the Wilpons, there is no evidence to suggest this is the way they conduct business. They hired Omar, pushed heavily for the signing of Martinez and Beltran and approved Omar’s recommendation to hire Willie Randolph as their first manager. Sandy? No matter what I might think of him in other terms, he doesn’t press me as that sort of person, either. Though it is true that unlike with Jose, Alderson is negotiating with both David and R.A.’s agent, it is a question of judgement and priorities, right or wrong. Even if our former shortstop was Ritchie Cunningham from Happy Days, taking into account the money, physic and health concerns of the player along with baseball wisdom (sic) of the front office, he would have been gone anyway.
“the Met organization is now intentionally trying to appeal more to the Caucasian audience as if we were still living in the stereo-typed squeaky-clean America of the fifties.”
If David Wright was a bit chunky, balding, with zits and craters on his face…not engaging with the media….in other words…Ty Wiggington….David would not be the center of attention and would not hold as much value.
Like Hollywood, the mets do put marketing above production.
This is why in the mets front office eyes…they will never put a Daniel Murphy or Ike Davis above David Wright…and if they start out-producing him, expect to hear some “stories”
Would you see Batman pt 4 if the central character was the worst actor in the whole movie and appeared in the fewest scenes ?
Of course not…
The Mets treat the team the way a Hollywood production does a movie…
Take El Cantante, that movie J-Lo and Marc Anthony made about Hector Lavoe ( the PR version of Marvin Gaye )
the studio re-wrote the movie to accomodate J-Lo. So rather than it being told from Hector’s perspective, it was from his 2nd wife ( and old mistress ) played by J-Lo.
Marc Anthony ( who speaks fluent spanish ) spoke English the entire movie, I swore I was looking at Al Pacino play a Cuban immigrant who didnt speak spanish. I have seen dead wood look more alive than MA in that flick.
The movie was horrible, the acting was ok ( J-Lo actually was decent for once )
And at the end of the day, It made very little money.
You have to have a good product if you want to make money…
DW is essentially our J-Lo …or as I kindly put it…our Snow Wright with his seven dwarfs
I definately agree with your “marketing” theory……the organization is no doubt using DW for that purpose. However, the issue with Davis last year and the negative sh*t they leaked out about him not being a team player…..well to imply that they did that to tear him down publicly for fear that he may put up great numbers and replace the image they want Wright to maintain, is just utter nonsense. It had everything to do with Davis not buying into THEIR plate discipline program and nothing to do with Wright. Also, I respect Davis for not going along with that idiotic program. I actually respect him more for it. Every player on the team should revolt against that bullspit.
hmmm…
Ike wasnt buying into that all year dude…
Ike never bought into it..
and Keith was airing him out since April cuz he didnt go to one of his clinics on defense.
I find it odd that Ike Davis goes out to the movies for 2 years and NOW that he hits 20 HR’s in 2.5 months they decide to air him out…
If Wright is surrounded by someone outperforming him, how can u still market him as your franchise player?
A franchise player is usually your BEST player, not just the one who talks to the media the most or appears on the most posters
‘If Wright is surrounded by someone outperforming him, how can u still market him as your franchise player?’
I think you’re confusing franchise player with the best player on the team.
Look at Jeter after they gave him that 10 year contract. He was the franchise player, he was the Captain, but he was hardly the best player on the team all those years.
Bingo. I said the same below.
I never saw Jeter having a problem with guys on the team out performing him as the face of the franchise. Again, this is ridiculous and just shows you have no idea what a face of the franchise even means. It has nothing to do with being the best player on the team.
Cal Ripken’s last 10 years: .271 .329 .424 .753
Do you think during that time he was still the face of the franchise?
You mean the same Cal Ripken who was trying to break Lou Gherig’s streak?
Do you remember when Cal fought Davey Johnson over calling pitches….and then moving to 3B?
Do you remember fans calling him selfish and obsessed with breaking the streak more than winning a chip…
Cuz I DO !!!
1996 – http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-05-26/sports/9605260229_1_ripken-first-year-manager-phil-regan-selfish
1998 – http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-08-02/news/1998214016_1_ripken-work-ethic-quantity
2001 – http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=19960526&id=DusyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dxUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5288,4290837
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2001/06/cal_ripkens_disease.html
But Gildea never lets on that Ripken rarely showed such affection for his teammates. In 1993, Ripken eschewed the team bus for a private limousine. When the Orioles traveled to away games, he often preferred to stay at a separate hotel. The Orioles’ disastrous signing of outfielder Albert Belle in 1998 was brought on because the team needed a star, General Manager Frank Wren explained, with “more passion, more fire.”
2012 – http://www.masnsports.com/steve_melewski/2012/09/brother-defends-brother-and-cal-thanks-his-dad-during-statue-ceremony.html
Then were reports of Cal never taking the team bus, being hated by other team members
I followed Cal cuz he was my favorite player too ( after Lenny got traded ) …my first baseball glove was a Cal Ripken glove
Do you remember Davey manages the Nats not the Mets?
I don’t see what any of that has to do with Wright until we trade him to the Nats.
Was he the face of the franchise or not?
The franchise TRIED to replace him as the face of the franchise…
the problem is they did it with Albert Belle !!!
If they did that with A-Rod instead, who knows what happens with him
You mean the same Cal Ripken who was trying to break Lou Gherig’s streak?
Do you remember when Cal fought Davey Johnson over calling pitches….and then moving to 3B?
Do you remember fans calling him selfish and obsessed with breaking the streak more than winning a chip…
Cuz I DO !!!
1996 – http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-05-26/sports/9605260229_1_ripken-first-year-manager-phil-regan-selfish
1998 – http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-08-02/news/1998214016_1_ripken-work-ethic-quantity
2001 – http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=19960526&id=DusyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dxUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5288,4290837
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2001/06/cal_ripkens_disease.html
JDD…..
Just stop a moment and reach deep into your head about what you’re saying here. Sounds to me like you’re saying the organization’s plan is to NOT find a talent that may turn into a better player than David Wright and if by chance someone does, it will shatter their plans, they would be disappointed and would tear down that player and possibly trade him for someone with less talent.
ABSOLUTELY F**KING BIZARRE!
The Mets may want to surround David with enough talent to help them contend…but not too much talent where he looks like the weakest link…which presents an entirely different and complex situation
Would you bench David Wright and his 138 mil contract if he was the weakest link on the team?
( the way the Yanks did with A-Rod )
why is it ok for a poster to call david wright SNOW WRIGHT? Dont you think this will offend some people here?”
THIS^^ I’m offended by calling the franchise player that. SHow respect!
its more making fun of the way the mets treat the team from a marketing standpoint
David Wright is the cleanest thing on earth since soap
The Mets pretty much treat the rest of their position players like dwarfs
Ike Davis – became a villian strangely after posting the 2nd highest HR in the 2nd half this year
Ruben Tejada – dove into 1B when he didnt. MB incorrectly made him look like an idiot for weeks
The OF – “What outfield?” – Sandy Alderson
Jordany – A cross between Luis Castillo and Willie Mays Hays
So it’s basically Snow Wright and the seven dwarfs ( the 7 other position players )
By focusing 110% of the attention on Wright, from a marketing perspective, we are basically that 24 + 1 team that Stevie P said we would be if we signed A-Rod
By focusing 110% of the attention on Wright, from a marketing perspective, we are basically that 24 + 1 team that Stevie P said we would be if we signed A-Rod”
ESTO^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
To me, if it’s legitimate that Flores can not play 2B in the next year – then he has to be trade bait. It stinks, but this happens. Hopefully he can have success somewhere else but also bring back something we can use.
This.
I second This.
There is another option.
They could keep him to play 1B, and use Ike as a trade chip to fill other holes.
Depending of course on what kind of year Ike has.
No thanks,
OK….here’s another idea. I say the team should hang on to Flores, promote him and play him at 2B to see if his enormous hitting potential can come to fruition in the bigs. He could very well turn out to be a better hitter and more productive than Davis. In the mean time you offer Davis his first generation contract similar to what they did with Wright and Reyes. If Flores proves to be the player we all think he can be, then you trade Davis with his very attractive first generation contract and acquire the much needed productive outfielder. Now Flores goes to the corner at 1B where he belongs and you’ll have a productive pre-arb player 1B and fill the needs in the outfield. Just have to go through the growing pains at 2B with Flores to see what he can do, I don’t think they should trade him yet unless blown away like Wil Myers straight up for Flores.
How fast was Jeff Kent? Faster than Flores? Lou Piniella played a pretty good outfield for the Yanks. He did it with his brain and positioning and knowing how the pitchers planned to work guys. Foot speed is preferred but not essential. Infielders see the catcher’s signs. Outfielders can get cover from a fast CF. Can we stop talking about trading Wheeler? The mets rarely have a minor league gem.
Major league gems like Ike Davis, Matt Harvey and Jon Niese are much more preferable than minor league gems. Longtime Met fans know this.
He used to be a SS, i can’t understand why he won’t be able to handle 2B.
Because he was still a kid when he started playing SS and outgrew the position?
WHat bothers me the most about this, is we could’ve netted big time prospects or players who are ready to contribute in the majors for david wright, but isntead we signed him not only mortgaging our future, but we did that to save some extra cash, while i bash SRT for her usual the wilpons have no money, i not once disagree that they didn’t. the way they did that contract of wright shows all you need to know about their financial issues and also how SA loves every minute of it. He’s lying through his teeth as a lawyer would telling mets fans about wholesale changes and being competitive when we all know that’s not the case, because, if we’re shooting for the future why in the hell was there a need to sign a 30 year old 3rd baseman to block a future stud? Reason was money and somehow ticket sales. By signing wright and not doing sh** the rest of the offseason the wilpons may think fans will show up to see him while in the process saving some extra cash as well.it is a very sad situation that the wilpons, selig and SA have put Mets Fans, and even worse news when they pump their chest and tell NY Media and fans “We’re not going anywhere”.
Ironically…if the mets dont turn the seven dwarfs into real legit players….citi field is going to be a grave yard no matter what numbers DW is putting up….
Not improving the roster and increasing wins essentially guarantees mediocrity in a results oriented town.
If attendance doesnt improve…and the mets arent contributing to the MLB pool of cash that helps keep low attendance teams afloat….Bud will eventually force the wilpons to sell after other owners start pressuring him.
They are already a bit ticked off that the wilpons got some loans behind their back.
Alex
“is we could’ve netted big time prospects or players who are ready to contribute in the majors for david wright”
If you’re argument is that Flores could play 3B for the Mets, then isn’t the same statement above true with regards to Flores?
I mean if you’re telling me that in 2013 Wilmer Flores is ready to take over 3B in New York City then he has to be good enough that other teams would want him no?
The argument is that We could have had 3B locked up with a kid making less than 500K for the next 3 years instead of 16 mil.
Using the prospects we got back from the David deal to either fill other holes or be included in trades to fill those holes.
Then use the 16 mil to pay the salary of the incoming player via trade. Or if that person makes a small amount, than using that 16 mil to pay for free-agent(s) to supplement the team where applicable.
For example,
Trade David Wright to Colorado for Drew P, their stud CF and another player.
Trade those 3 + Familia or Mejia to Florida for G-Stanton ( who makes 450K )
You have Flores at 3B, Stanton in RF and you have 16 mil more to spend to the 10 mil u already had ( now u have 26 mil to spend this off-season )
You now sign say Michael Bourn for 5 years 70 mil
For the next 5 years, You now have CF locked up, 3B locked up, RF locked up
You can use some of those savings to extend Ike
You trade Dickey or Niese and Murphy and either to Texas for either Andrus or Profur and relief pitcher
You move Tejada to 2B
You still have a good rotation, a much improved starting lineup, hopefully a better set of relievers for a smaller price than if u just resigned DW and cried broke later
that might be why Alex is upset…
but i’ll let him speak for himself
“The argument is that We could have had 3B locked up with a kid making less than 500K for the next 3 years instead of 16 mil.”
Well good thing we got rid of Reyes or the team would be in a real bind.
If we traded Reyes for Profur, I am with that 110%
Letting Reyes go and getting a draft pick, not so much
On the same page with that. It was clear they couldn’t match his market and how could they not understand that ahead of time. Yea I get the injury crushed top tear trade value, but something could of been figured out. Big fail by the FO.
exactly
I still think their biggest guilt was misjudging the market there. I think that they believed their offer “proposed” would be comparable and they had a shot of keeping him. What they didn’t realize was that Loria was insane and would destroy multiple markets with his gimmick.
JDD…..
While your whole plan outlined above sounds great and I’m always impressed with your creativity and ability to think out of the box……the problem with it is this…..your plan is totally based on the assumption that Flores is a can’t miss superstar playing 3B for the next 15 years. When in reality this is just may not be true as with all prospects, many reach their potential in AAA ball. This is a huge overhaul and a risky gamble.
well we signed Wright to a 8 year 138 mil deal on the assumption that he will be as good as he was from 2005-2008….
his increasing K rate + his declining HR rate + lack of all-star supporting cast no longer being here to surround him seem to contradict that notion.
There is a better chance Flores hits the Hall of Fame than Wright turns the clock back to 2007
“well we signed Wright to a 8 year 138 mil deal on the assumption that he will be as good as he was from 2005-2008″
But thats just wrong…
We signed Wright to that deal because he is the best player on the team and unless Davis or Duda starts hitting for average as well as power Wright is likely to continue to be the best player on the team until we sign someone else!
“We signed Wright to that deal because he is the best player on the team ”
LMAO
ok
RA Dickey is the best pitcher on the staff…and yet re-signing him seems to be a bit more complicated….
I wonder why?
Because he is a 38 year old knuckleballer and we have more strength in pitching than offense?
And David is a 30 year old 3B coming off 4 straight years of 2nd half declines.
We also have Daniel Murphy who can play 3B and our top position prospect does too…
After Wright completes his 8 year deal. He will still be younger in 2020 than R.A. Dickey is today.
Are you suggesting that David Wright join the rotation and learn the knuckleball ?
Nice !
I love out of the box thinking
You wonder why?
I mentioned it in my post you replied to?
MONEYBALL THINKING LIKE YOU ARE SUGGESTING!
Moneyball doesn’t give 5+Mil contracts out to anyone past the age of 30!
It’s against thier religion!
no its not committing long term contracts to players past age 34
this was the logic used in giving Beltran that 7 year deal, they tracked the diminishing returns on players signed past age 34, they used Bernie Williams as a barometer
RA on a 3 year 30 mil deal is not a long term contract
David on a 8 year 138 mil deal is
Give a guy a contract that ends when he is 40+ is not a long term contract for him?
Get real here….
As for Wright we all know here that if Wright was from Venezuela or somewhere south of the border you would love the signing…
Your not making sense and the only ones who MIGHT have agreed with you are the SAND PEOPLE who argued against Reyes getting what he did and prefered the Moneyball approach.
So really all your posts make it sound like your pissed Sandy didn’t stay Sandy and deconstruct the team even further than it already was.
All your trades were not going to make Dickey worth having….
None of your scenarios for trading Wright would have made this team competitive in the next 4 years.
And you should know that considering how POed you are about all those performing Latino players that got sent away with your current thinking proccess that you keep whining about!
Yes because you saw me begging the mets to pick up Vlad Guerrero to play RF this winter..
Let me gueliked him because he needed a translator to be interviewed right and not because he was really any better than Wright…
You seem to have issues with the color clash from 3rd and SS….
Really dude no one is going to listen to you when you cry discrimination when all you do is discriminate yourself.
Draft a player at 18…he hits the majors at age 21…6 years later he is a free-agent…now age 27….offer 7 year deal with a 1 year team option and buyout…he is now age 34…u now go year to year and offer short term contracts to him
You can also sign him to that 10 year deal after his 3rd year in the majors, eating up all 3 arb years and buying out 7 free-agent years. making him a free-agent at 34
Draft a player at 21…he hits the majors at age 24…6 years later he is a free-agent…now age 27….offer 7 year deal with a 1 year team option and buyout…he is now age 34…u now go year to year and offer short term contracts to him
You can also sign him to that 7 year deal after his 3rd year in the majors, eating up all 3 arb years and buying out 7 free-agent years. making him a free-agent at 34
thats how i would do it…
call it moneyball…i call it smart…
So what you are saying is that Omar messed up with Wright and should have signed him to the Longoria contract when he had the chance. Thus the reason that we had to sign Wright to the 7 year extension now that locks him up until 38 is because we didn’t do it earlier. I agree.
Smart? Yeah because it has worked so well in Oakland and Pittsburg right?
Ok we get it your a Moneyballer….
In that case it’s time to trade everyone!
Santana
Dickey (well past moneyball trade time)
Niese
in three years
Harvey
Wheeler
Tejada
And we had better stop signing only half a draft class….
But at least you admit you are one of the SAND PEOPLE!
Hey, I hope you are not associating Sand People and TRDM because about 90% of our readers are furthest from moneyballers. Even I agree in a perfect world I would much rather the Mets payroll be 150M and spent wisely.
No TRS but I understand where you might think that…Not the case though
SAND PEOPLE is what I am using for those who like how Sandy thinks since the other was banned and causes instant moderation….
I have a fan post awaiting publish where I explain that Signing Wright was not Sandy’s idea at all and how trading Dickey was the consolation cracker he got for doing what he didn’t want to do with Wright.
Wilpons made Sandy sign Wright and gave up Dickey to let Sandy do with what he pleases.
JoeD has been in and out of Hospital so he has more pressing things to do than to check on Fan Posts so hopefully it goes live soon.
TRS – Yup, thats what I’m saying..
Omar should have locked up David + Jose til age 34…
the only problem with this…
is you have to get the player to take a lower AAV in exchange for security…
you also have to get the owners to take on bigger risk
this is why longoria is the exception, not the rule
‘JoeD has been in and out of Hospital…’
Sorry to hear that.
FL and Pitt will be in contention before Snow Wright’s team hits .500 again past August
Yep because both have not been to a playoffs as recently as us.
So they had a head start on stockpiling top 10 Draft picks.
How many years before they will win a WS huh?
bet ya posting privs that we do it first WITH Wright!
“The argument is that We could have had 3B locked up with a kid making less than 500K for the next 3 years instead of 16 mil.”
But thats exactly why your argument fails…
If somone HAD that kid (Sure can’t say Flores is that guy at this point) why would they even need to trade for Wright and not just start the kid?
You are assuming that kid plays 3B
You are assuming that the team is not 1 player away from contending
This is where your counter-argument fails
and Flores at 21 is doing pretty well in the minors…there is no guarentee he will be Cabrera…and there is no guarentee Wright will be the 2005-2008 version of himself…
as a matter of fact…there is more evidence pointing that he wont be that…
why do u choose to willingly ignore this ?
No you are the one assuming your going to get AS good as Wright back….
Flores has not proven anything yet other than he can probably be a hitter in the MLB but no proof that he will hit as many HRs or for as much average as Wright.
As for Flores doing pretty well, Well if you suggest Wright is NOT doing well (All Star, .300+ BA 20+Hrs 93 RBI) How can you say without a doubt Flores is going to be better than that?
IS he cheap? Is that what this is all about another Moneyball move that would kill attendance and never allow you to spend ever again?
Wright has not proven that he is 2005-2008 Wright…and has done nothing to convince he will be
anything you do is a gamble.
no one in their right mind would’ve thought jason bay would turn into the canadian roberto alomar …or that frankie rodriguez would strike more fear in father-in-laws than in the opposition…or that a 38 year old journeyman knuckleballer would win a CY Young after being the best overall pitcher in baseball for 3 years straight
Which is more than Flores has proved so far…
Wright is a .300+ hitter with 20+ HRs and near 100 RBI…
Thats LAST year not the years you keep talking about!
Again, ask yourself this question.. Are we or do you believe we are competing or near contention in 2013? While Flores i KNOW is not ready to take over 3rd base in 2013 the whole plan was, is and has been 2014. Where the mets could’ve had wheeler and Harvey with experience, santana and bay off the books, Ike ready to take over NYC etc. We are not better today than we were at the end of the season, if anything, we are worst. Remember, it took an inhumane effort and hot start by wright to keep us afloat in the first 2 months alone with insane pitching performance by dickey, santana, etc. But the league caught up with our plan or approach offensively, our pitchers, injuries started to happen etc. we are not better anyways, why not try to maximize our value with DW and net as much as we could’ve with him and who knows, he would’ve bring back a C, maybe also an OF and our team of young talent would’ve been set 2014 and up..
But Alex, you can’t re-write history. What’s done is done. David Wright is your favorite baseball team’s 3B for at minimum I’d say the next 4 years.
So go from there. How do you make the NY Mets the best team they can be over the next 4 years lets just say. I choose 4 years too because Ike Davis will go from a young up and coming 1B to a 30 year old 1B approaching free agency at that point.
So make the Mets with Wright at 3B the best you can. That’s all you can do. If Flores again is ready to be a big league 3B by 2014, somebody needs that. You know how I know that?
Two days ago the GM of the NY Yankees went on WFAN and said there are 2 position weaknesses in baseball right now. Catcher and 3B. Teams need a 3B. So if you’re telling me we have TWO and one of them is guaranteed to be here – then the Mets now have a significant trading chip (assuming you’re correct).
The team is no different today then it was in September. No one is questioning that. No one is questioning that the team needs to be upgraded. What you can’t wrap your head around is there is way more to the Wright signing then on field performance. Also the signing demonstrates that the Wilpon’s continue to retract the payroll not add to it. You are so up in arms on what was spent, but the contract was reduced by half this year and the contract will be paid for by both of and on field contributions and reductions in other contracts help cover it as well in future years. You need to let it go because he is going to be around the team until he dies. He will be on the field for the next eight years, he will make consistent booth appearances after that. Every special event he will be smiling in the background. He is here FOREVER MUHAHAHAHAA.
” He will be on the field for the next eight years, he will make consistent booth appearances after that. Every special event he will be smiling in the background.”
He is here FOREVER MUHAHAHAHAA
Met fans have already started booing Wright…
if Wright continues to have his 2nd half slumps…the above statement is going to be very ugly to endure…and if the wilpons are still here….the negative public reaction will have them in a bind.
NY – results oriented town
Again bro, this is a blog right? What do we do a lot of? SEcond guessing and a lot of would’ve, could’ve and should’ve statement. i get we’re stuck with him, it is what it is, but my point is more about the FO than it is about wright, they keep lying to you, me and every met fan there is. how can we be builing for the future when we break the bank for wright who’s 30 years old? why not move him for more pieces and see how 2014 will fair for us instead of signing him to once again not be competitive? and i am shocked you’re using anything cashman says, according to a lot of people all he does is spend $ nothing else.. And if you think 3rd baseman is a weak position in baseball, i suggest you look up the numbers and see how wrong that statemen is..
I guess what I’m suggesting to you is not to worry about things you cannot change. David Wright is here. He’ll be here in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 etc. Trying to change that will do you no good. You may not like him, but as a fan I’d think it’d be a better use of your time to figure out how to make the Mets work during those years WITH David Wright rather than without him… because he’s gonna be here whether you or anybody else likes it or not.
So trying to say what could have been or lets still try to trade him or whatever is not worth your own energy.
If Flores doesn’t fit the makeup of the team on the field, then trade him. Don’t hang onto him like the Yankees did with somebody like Nunez long enough for people to maybe figure out he’s more hype than talent. Nunez is exactly what Tejada will become if he ferments in the Mets system.
i say dont hang onto him the way the Knicks did with Allan Houston
him = DW
So you’re telling me you’d think the same thing if they signed Reyes to the exact same deal the Marlins did? Honestly?
Look, what happened to Reyes stinks. It wouldn’t have happened in 2013. He was a free agent at the wrong time for the franchise. Being involved in a $1billion lawsuit and having to commit $100+million to a baseball player isn’t really the best business decision. Do I know they would have signed him? No.
But if your problem is doing what the Knicks did with Houston than you’re telling me you would have gladly shown Reyes the door and I am sorry but I do not buy that.
So you are saying there is NO difference between using Reyes to fill up holes at Catcher / Centerfield and/or SS ….and letting him go for nothing?
No difference ?
Really ?
And that 17.5 mil salary avg went towards….Frank Francisco and Jon Rauch..and…the highest paid front office in baseball…not exactly a good reinvestment of funds…
my proposal is totally different
No what I am suggesting to you is you’re assuming that trading a pending free agent can net you realistic long term fills at OF and C and or SS is totally unreasonable. You wanted Reyes traded at the deadline? Great… so a team makes a deal in order to get 0 comp picks and oh by the way, sorry Reyes didn’t play in those 12 games this July or as a waiver deal, sorry he was hurt for 18 days in August.
I’m suggesting to you that yes in a perfect world they should have traded him in the off-season or signed him. That didn’t happen. He probably wasn’t signed because he was coming off his worst year as a pro in 5 years and he probably wasn’t traded because he was coming off his worst year as a pro in 5 years
The comp deal situation happened in 2012, not 2011, so a team does get comp picks…
That is a very valid point Jessep. With the lack of 3rd base talent. If Flores is projected to be a starter with staying power he would probably have much more value on the trade market then one year’s worth of Wright at 16m. But it doesn’t really matter, to think that either you or I can have a conversation with Alex where he actually tries to digest our points is not really worth our time.
I think everyone should stop using cliches like “face of the franchise”, etc when it comes to David. He is a good third baseman and we are better off with him than with some young players and prpspects.
David would have to be part of a series of moves to rapidly improve the club now and in 2014. To trade him to just continue the perpetual rebuildng process would be a waste.
Hi Joey,
I think you were on the right track before. There is a backlash effect in play here. Sandy is white and he took omars position so the latins attack him constantly. Reyes was let go and Wright is still here and is the “face” so he gets plenty of hate from the same 2 posters. It is so obvious that anybody who comes here reguarly can see it. Damages lame effort to cover up his race bias by adding the 7 dwarfs and bringing up a j lo movie are laughable. I try to use sports as a way to escape the stressess of everyday life. I am sick and tired of people coming here with an agenda that has nothing to do with baseball.
Yes, this theory you have totally explains why I think Ike Davis was made a target by the front office. Ike Davis not only suffers from Spring Valley Fever, he now suffers from being a latino…
o wait…
not really…
I guess that blows your entire BS story to bits
#TryAgain
Just-Da-Damaja December 7, 2012 at 12:24 pm .
I find it weird when folks compare player to player…its almost always of the same race…
and thats almost in every sport…
how many times have we heard the next Larry Bird was coming…
how many times was that player not a white guy…
just an observation
that didnt take long – posted today on the valdespin thread- no race doesnt have anything to do with your posting here. how siily of me.
so u saw nothing weird with comparing Jordany Valdespin, someone who is the fastest player on the team, who has the ability to hit for power as well…
with Juan Uribe…
a borderline obese 33 year old who does hit for occasional pop but avg 4 SB a year…
yup…
Nothing to do with the fact they were both MI’s from DR
same way folks compared Christian Laettner to Bird had nothing to do with the fact that they were both white
just a coincidence
or maybe its because they’re similar players
Uribe’s career line- 251/296/419
Valdespin 2012- 241/286/424
I don’t agree that TRS made the comparison because of race, but I agree that it’s a horrible comparison. I think he was just looking solely at the numbers, and not at the big picture.
You have to realize Valdespin is a ROOKIE. If his stats are similar to Uribe now, then in the future, Valdespin will most likely surpass Uribe because normally rookies improve as they mature and gain more experience. So, just by using simple logic, you will know that his ceiling is higher than Juan Uribe.
Now, what makes the comparison so totally ridiculous is the difference in their athleticism. Uribe is slow and overweight, while V-Spin, is probably the best athlete in the organization; he’s lightning fast, and he is a pretty strong kid. He’s in fantastic shape, and like JDD said, Urbie is borderline obese.
I don’t think this is a race issue, I think this is an issue of relying too much on numbers.
It has nothing to do with race, it has to do with being a swing hard and miss utility if that can hit some HR but will always have a low BA and OBP because of his swing and miss philosophy. It’s getting bad when you can’t talk baseball here without being accused of racism. Gonna drive some people away for sure.
Also you do realize that Uribes last full year in the minors saw him have 13 hr and 22 steals while playing SS.
It’s just way too early in his career to say he’ll always have a low average and a low OBP.
Just because he has an aggressive approach at the plate, doesn’t mean he won’t be a successful major league starter. There are hundreds of good major leaguers that had the same hitting style as V-Spin that went on to be solid players.
Remember Reyes when he first came up? In 2004, he walked fewer times than V-Spin did last year despite having more AB’s. Or look at Brandon Phillips in his first full year; he walked only 14 times in 370 AB’s, but he was able to develop into an all star player. Ian Desmond had the same EXACT walk rate as Vadespin in his rookie year, yet he also developed into an all star.
All three of those players had the same approach as V-Spin, and all of them went on to become all stars. So, I don’t buy that his philosophy will prevent him from being a successful major league starter.
And the reason why I bring up those three specific players is because they all play the middle infield positions, and have the similar combination of speed, power, and athleticism, that Valdespin has.
I think similar production to those players is Valdespin’s ceiling. I don’t know if he’ll ever reach his ceiling, but if he does, that will be around the level that he’ll produce.
Valdy is an infielder like I am a chef.
Valdy is an outfielder now..the guy belongs no where near the infield unless he is a baserunner
I look at Valdy and I see a left-handed version of Jeff Francour
great athlete, great tools, stubborn, hard-headed, has power, speed. rushed through the system
same thing with jeff kent
http://www.sfgate.com/sports/jenkins/article/Giants-Jeff-Kent-Not-as-Advertised-3320689.php#page-2
In 1994, Kent’s second full year with the Mets, he opened the season with a hitting streak that got nationwide attention: .375, eight homers and 26 RBIs in the month of April. He was unstoppable, jolting every pitch that came his way. Kent hit .292 that season, clearly establishing himself as a front-line player. But he finished with just 14 homers and never quite recaptured the magic.
“I was ridin’ the fast train,” he recalled. “All of a sudden, the people in New York — especially the media — wanted to know everything about what I did. The ‘how’ and the ‘why.’ And that’s what knocked the train off its tracks. Because I started to think, well, how am I doing this? When you’re in a zone like that, you’re not supposed to think. You just ride it out.”
Kent’s exasperation with the media was the genesis of his now- dubious reputation. Keeping more to himself, he became known as an egocentric, aloof player. “It’s tough in New York,” he says. “When you’re down, not many people will back you up. When you’re on top, they call you Superman or hero. I experienced both of those levels, and in New York, there’s no in-between. You’re either the greatest or the worst.”
I will tell you what, I will just ignore all your posts from now on. the only race i want to talk about here is the pennant race, if thats ok with you.
” I am sick and tired of people coming here with an agenda that has nothing to do with baseball”
LMAO
then u ignore the 101 different pieces of BS that have nothing to do with baseball on this site..
like BJ Upton not running out 2 balls in 7 years being a sign of “laziness”
Hi Ray,
When I was a kid, the big argument was who was better, Mantle or Mays. The argument wasn’t between people of different races so much as it was fans of different teams. This included those who hated the Yankees almost always looking toward Willie while many a Dodger fan wouldn’t say a nice thing about anyone wearing a Giant uniform. And, with almost every new breeder (including me) also being a Yankee hater by default, we automatically gave the vote to number 24.
And when Ron Swoboda started off his rookie season with a slew of four baggers, a Bill Gallo cartoon had a picture of Swoboda with the worlds “our home run king”. Underneath it was an adult saying to a kid “Yeah, but Willie Mays is leading the league” with the kid replying “Willie who?”
Lets not get carried away with this race card. There is still too much racial prejudice as it is that one does not have to go looking for it where there isn’t.
My observation about fans comparing Player X to Player Y based on race is pretty well known though…
Just go and look at all the times one player is compared to another…for the most part…its always with someone who is of the same race…
this doesnt make the person “racist”
For example, Carlos Gomez in 2006 is compared to
http://metsblog.com/uncategorized/metsgeek-analysis-on-carlos-gomez/
Austin Jackson is compared to Vernon Wells + Torre Hunter
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php/118943-Comp-Austin-Jackson-Vernon-Wells
http://www.perfectgame.org/players/playerprofile.aspx?ID=2448
Oliver Perez was the 2nd coming of Fernando Valenzuela
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2002-06-23/sports/0206230205_1_estes-purpose-pitch-clemens/2
Hell Wilmer Flores is compared to Miggy Cabrera….which is absolutely crazy
Hi Ray,
I actually wasn’t referring to the Latino community. I was instead thinking of all of us – regardless of our backgrounds – who are angry with those who due to their inate bigotry would not allow themselves to simply see Omar as a fair individual who wasn’t patronizing those of his own heritage,
Remarks like “David White” I saw as a sarcastic backlash addressed to those who accused Omar of such discrimination simply to point out the hypocrisy of their thinking since they don’t see the need to question Sandy’s ulterior motives re-negotiating with David Wright and R.A. while not applying the same with Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran.
Of course, that was not the case with Omar and is not the case now with Sandy. Using David as an example was a way I saw many – of all backgrounds – making such a point. I think had I seen it as coming primarily from the Latino community I would have then had to include myself in that hypocrisy as well.
If either Neise or Dickey get traded,Flores will most likely be gone,because to me,he’s not untouchable,in fact, I believe he’s expendable.
Flores and Wheeler for Upton
Extend Dickey
Sign Bourn
Sign a closer
Our third baseman of the future is now being blocked by our third baseman of the past until 202. TRAID!!!!
Met Maniac December 8, 2012 at 5:40 pm
“Met fans deserve shitty players because they have no respect for good ones.”
Are you a Mets fan, if so, here you are talking about yourself, again…..
What did I say that wasnt a fact?
there is ALOT of truth to that statement…
met fans had issues rooting for carlos beltran….
no other fan base that CB played for had issues rooting for him
There were met fans that said they would rather have Rick Ankiel in CF than CB…
than there were all the folks who didnt like the way Reyes played the game …
Met fans most def deserve all the tim bogars and Brad Eamus’s if they cant root for guys like Beltran and Reyes
Funny how you call out people for not rooting for Reyes or Beltran, those people were in the minority, never read on MMO anyone wanting Ankiel over Beltran so not sure what cloud you are pulling that out of.
Same Mets fans killing people for not bowing at the Church of Reyes or Beltran are ostracized in your eyes, but it’s ok for them to make up crap, lies, and kill Wright, things that make you go hmmm.
In the minority ????
2008 –
http://www.kranepoolsociety.com/2008/10/15/is-carlos-beltran-under-appreciated/
2009
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/3/2/776550/carlos-beltran-underapprec
2010
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/409340-an-underappreciated-all-star-a-case-for-carlos-beltran
2011
http://risingapple.com/2011/04/25/underrated-carlos-beltran/
i guess thats why there were all those articles talking about Beltran being UNDER-APPRECIATED
Look at this one person who wrote an article on Jose Reyes after rumors appeared that David Wright may be on the trading block in 2011
“If Reyes spent less time working on his elaborate celebratory dances and more time focusing on being a smarter player then we wouldn’t be having this discussion now. Reyes could be better but he’s not. Reyes needs to focus on being more productive and using his speed to get on base instead of focusing on what he is going to do after he gets on base.”
Please spare me…if Met fans werent booing Beltran in Spring Training of 2005 ( look it up ) ….and complaining that Reyes smiled too much after hitting a triple, we wouldnt be having this conversation.
If you want to say Beltran was unappreciated and Reyes too, that’s fine. But I will not allow you to base it on race. Some people had a problem with Reyes’ dancing, I didn’t. Some people said Beltran was soft, I disagree. People have baseball opinions and that’s that. It’s not for you to make a determination that their opinions were based on race. I didn’t dislike Juan Samuel because he was Latino, I disliked him because we gave up a solid centerfielder and reliever for him. Latinos did not dislike Jason Bay because he was Caucasion. They disliked him because he was grossly overpaid and grossly under-performed. There’s no need to inject race into any of your arguments and I will not tolerate that on this site.
LOL, well if that’s the case, I am not sure what he is going to actually comment on.
ummm maybe i’ll comment on how I think trading Dickey for Travis D’anard may improve our infield defense and offense from the catcher spot.
Or the 101 other things I talk about ( aside from the uncomfortable stuff you dont want to talk about )
Then maybe you should just stick to all those other great comments you make because the other is pure garbage and is a lose lose situation for you and everyone else here.
its only pure garbage to you b/c you are not offended in the least by it.
The Mets treat their team from a marketing perspective first, almost the way Hollywood does their movies.
When its time for casting and you have an expensive movie being made. There has to be some name recognition to guarentee a minimum level of interest from the audience to at least guarentee some return on investment
The team/movie has to have a protagonist. A main character or hero who is nice, works hard, smiles for the camera and kisses the babies.
Then there is a supporting cast.
Then there are the villians ( in this case, the Braves, Phillies, Cards, Yanks, etc )
The Mets were not going to be able to charge high prices on those tickets without a guarenteed return on investment.
From a marketing perspective, if Wright leaves, they would have to start all over and find another hero, while dealing with public backlash.
Wright’s replacement would have to hit like Babe Ruth on a good day to get the media bullseye off his back.
The Wilpons were putting this on layaway for years. They really never saw Wright as a superstar, just the only guy they could sell tickets with.
So now that he has his loot…he will have the bullseye on his back.
If he hits .290 with 19 HR and 89 RBI for 16 mil a year on a 78 win team for the next 8 years, best believe he will be booed to tears.
And the same way you never get blamed for buying Apple, who can blame the Wilpons for going the safe route and sticking with Wright. the guy most fans ( who will boo him ) wanted.
So long as the criticism shy Wilpons run this team, we are not going anywhere my friends.
/rant over
I sure hope the rant is over and we never have to endure it again.
Joe D – READ what you are replying to…
please point out where I said this was an issue of race ?
I agreed with one person who said met fans may deserve bad players b/c they could not appreciate good ones
than i showed several examples backing that up…
the best CF in the NL had articles written about him for 5 years straight saying how he was unappreciated.
the best SS in our franchise history had folks complaining that he was lazy, arrogant, etc
no where did i say this was a racial issue.
the fact that you brought up race all on your own does say ALOT
“I agreed with one person who said met fans may deserve bad players b/c they could not appreciate good ones
than i showed several examples backing that up…”
Then agreed with a guy who blamed Beltran, K-Rod, and Reyes for not making the team above .500 in 2009 and 2010
I certainly never agreed with THAT statement
Well you Bingo’ed the guy didn’t you?
And tell me you never said we should have traded them all?
Odd how the White guy has for three years been complaining about losing all the good latino players is arguing with someone who wanted them all gone and blamed then and then the guy who has complained everyday for two months now about how all the white guys hate the Latinos gives him big giant BINGO and agrees with his point on trading them all away!
Metsie – I was agreeing with YOU
#SwitchToDecaf
smh
It’s like Groundhog Day in here a few anti met fan here who called themselves the BORE with the same crap everyday
They signed David because they wanted fans to think they had cash again, meanwhile he has taken a pay cut this year and every year after that it goes up. That increase coincides with Santana, Bay, and Francisco’s contracts ending.
Nothing’s changed, no matter how much Joe D rants about all these little things that point to a better financial outlook. It’s still the same old puny budget while teams like the Dodgers, Angels and Giants all have payrolls above 140 million. Joe D can save it as far as the money situation is concerned; yes, the Wilpons will not have to sell, but the Mets will still be LOSERS until they increase payroll enough to compete in today’s sky high market for even decent players.
Unless their prospects grow up fast, develop, and reach their ceilings, this 100/105 million dollar team will only be looking down at the Marlins.
They are able to pay the bills and invest the same money as mid market teams, the problem is that when even marginally good players are now making huge bucks, even next year when they have more cash to spend, it still won’t be enough.
Look at the Giants. In 2009 their payroll was around 80 million and were a good team. Since than, they’ve won 2 championships, but now their payroll is 140 million this season. And that’s just from locking up their own players and adding solid role players like Scuturo and Pagan. Does anyone here see the Mets paying that type of cash for those type of players? With a 105 million payroll!?!?
The price of doing business in this league had gone up tremendously and has now past the Wilpons by. The Mets do not have a chance in today’s game unless they are willing operate like the rest of teams; who have adapted already and are willing to do so because winning is the priority, not nickle and diming every opportunity that comes their way.
“It’s tough in New York,” he says. “When you’re down, not many people will back you up. When you’re on top, they call you Superman or hero. I experienced both of those levels, and in New York, there’s no in-between. You’re either the greatest or the worst.”
- Jeff Kent
Sports Illustrated 1993
“It’s almost like people are miserable, and they want to bring you down to their level.”
- kevin mcreynolds – on NY fans
Congrats Sean you got linked on MLBTR for this!
Joe said that too, I’ve been trying to find the MLBTR thread with it though. You have it?