6
2012
When Will The Mets Address Glaring Holes In Outfield?
Speaking at the Winter Meetings, Mets’ CEO Jeff Wilpon said GM Sandy Alderson would have an increased budget for 2013 and the team “will be competitive.’’
What exactly he meant by that, he wouldn’t specify. Does it mean the Mets will be a playoff contender or at least a .500-caliber team? Just exactly how much will the budget be increased? When Wilpon spoke of payroll flexibility, in the wake of the commitment to David Wright, he didn’t do so in terms of actual dollars.
Alderson said the outfield pool is currently at the deep end with Shane Victorino signing a three-year, $39 million deal with Boston. I thought if the Mets splurged they might have a shot at Victorino, but I wasn’t thinking $39 million. Victorino actually turned down $44 million from Cleveland for a chance to play for a contender, and the Indians aren’t exactly a free-spending team.
Alderson said “we’ll get outfielders,’’ but what he didn’t add on was, “… we have to because the rules say we need to play with three.’’
Lucas Duda, Kirk Nieuwenhuis and Mike Baxter – left to right – is what the Mets currently have if the season started today.
Duda made a splash two years ago, but struggled badly last season; Nieuwenhuis made a good first impression in 2012 after Andres Torres was injured, but major league pitching caught up with him (those curveballs can be nasty); and Baxter is a role player who gets exposed after long bouts of playing time.
Hopefully, Duda learned something from being shipped off to the minors and he’ll have a breakout year. But, he’s never done it over a full season, so the hopes are mostly wishful thinking.
As far as Nieuwenhuis goes, he made a splash with his ability to work the count, put the ball in play and hustle. It would be asking a lot from him to develop into a fulltime leadoff hitter, assuming manager Terry Collins will place him at the top of the order.
I heard interest in Ryan Ludwick, but he’s not coming here. Ludwick made $2 million last year while hitting 26 homers and driving in 80 runs for Cincinnati. He’ll command a hefty raise, and I’m betting the Reds will give it to him.
Speaking of hefty raises, Scott Hairston, easily the most productive outfielder the Mets had last season, should get at least two years, or one and an option, for hitting 20 homers last season. Great off the bench, his playing time gradually increased.
The Mets will need a guy like him. Hey, here’s an idea … sign him.
Now that the Mets have committed $140 million to Wright, what about the rest of the roster? Dickey is still out there, and there have been no significant additions to even suggest the Mets’ offices have been open since the end of the season.
Thoughts from Joe D.
Lets not forget Lucas Duda broke his wrist in November while moving furniture and wont begin swinging a bat for 10-12 weeks assuming it sets properly and no setbacks.
Alderson said it best when he told reporters yesterday that as of right now the team doesn’t have enough players to field a regulation outfield. No shish kabobs, big guy…
The Mets now have about $21 million to spend on free agents after David Wright was nice enough to chip in $8 million dollars of flexibility But the Mets have been gun-shy to pull a trigger on anything believing that the longer they wait the better things will somehow get for them.
Meanwhile several solid options have already come off the board. Melky Cabrera ($8MM annually), Torii Hunter ($13MM annually), Angel Pagan ($10MM annually), Nate McLouth ($2MM annually), Shane Victorino ($13MM annually), B.J. Upton ($15MM annually) are already gone as free agents. The Phillies just traded for Ben Revere, and Justin Upton will be in a new uniform before the weekend.
Where were the Mets on any of these?
I’m betting Sandy Alderson has Andres Torres on speed dial… I’m dead serious…
About the Author: John Delcos
I am an active member of the BBWAA and have covered Major League Baseball in several capacities for over 20 years, including ten in New York working the Mets' and Yankees' beat. I covered the Baltimore Orioles for eight years and the Cleveland Indians before that. I currently serve as an editor and senior staff writer for Mets Merized Online. Follow me on Twitter @jdelcos.
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Well we could of put that lobster guy out there, but Sandy needed money for his plane tickets home.
LOL How true!
Meetings over.Alderson pitches a shutout regarding adding outfielders or catching help.Don’t worry.He assured David Wright there is a “plan”.Those Met ticket plans must be flying off the shelf right about now.Must see baseball in Chittifield waitng for us all.
Payroll is currently at 57.42m for Turner, Valdespin, Wright, Tejada, Nieuwenhuis, Duda, Harvey, Gee, Niese, Dickey, Santana, Francisco, Edgin and Bay. They still need to offer arb for Thole, Davis, Murphy and Parnel. That’s 17 players for a 25 man roster.
They got room to work with and they need to seriously start doing something. I get Dickey market on hold until Greinke signs and other teams get more desperate, but they are sitting idle on everything else.
The other thing is the FA market is pitifil this year, so even if they get something there it will not be much of a difference maker.
If someone hits the ball out of the infield, at this point, nobody is going to be there to catch it
I can almost hear the announcement on Opening Day throughout Citi Field. “Now playing CF for your New York Mets, Kirk Nieuwenhuis.”
You are really high on Kirk for 2013 and that’s so cool. I wish I shared your enthusiasm, but I am concerned about how he was exploited after teams had the book on him.
I was disappointed that he wasn’t making adjustments before he got hurt and missed the rest of the season. Pitchers were keying in on his flaws and then there’s the striking out in one-third of his at-bats. His .690 OPS will be a negative impact not a positive one. That has to change.
Anybody hear how he’s doing with that foot injury?
He went into a slump for about the last 2/3 of his major league season. He didn’t adjust fast enough and the Mets could not carry his bat any longer understandably. But like you said I am still high on him and admit a bias toward him. The foot was I believe reported to be not serious and though I haven’t read any updates on it I am expecting him to be fully recovered by Spring.
It is not so much adjustment the NL made against Kirk as his stats were unsustainable. In mid May he was batting .290 with a .340 BABIP. There is the story in all his strike outs which were tolerated but when his BABIP dropped so did his BA, Luck is good but will get you so far. That is why although I am not a SABER guy BABIP is very importaant to me.
As for BABIP for pitchers: As I said before I love Niese and his BABIP was about .330 in the past which showed with normal luck he would get better. In 2012 his BABIP dropped to.272. His “K” walk ratio is a good but not dominating. He has the John Maine syndrome ofr giving up alot of foul balls. He reaches 100 pitch count at about 62/3 innings. Everything shows he will slip slightly in 2013. Niese right now is a No.3 and nothing more. Yes he is a crafty lefty but not dominating.
The Mets now have about $21 million to spend on free agents after David Wright was nice enough to chip in $8 million dollars of flexibility But the Mets have been gun-shy to pull a trigger on anything believing that the longer they wait the better things will somehow get for them”
Joe D, how do you know? I mean, haven’t we seen this before? Didn’t he trade Krod in order to save up $17 million in payroll and what was that use on??? COme on man… Don’t say the mets have $21 million just because wright saved them $8 million, for all we know they lie to him too about it and won’t get sh** again in this offseason
But we knew then the goal was to get payroll down to $100M. So you cannot blame Sandy for that, blame Wilpon. Now that payroll is at around $100MM we have $20MM to spend right now.
This.
And some of that $20 million needs to be spent now…not all held onto for IF draft signings or mid season trades. Or even worse, pay down the never ending Mets debt.
Hahahaha!!! Oh lordy Ive never read a comment hear where someone says blame wilpons and mets debt and youre not involved lol….CONSISTENCY at its finest lol
Well who was it that Told Wilpon that was enough to field a competitive team or one that could solve the financial difficulties due to low attendance and revenues?
We can blame the Wilpons for agreeing with that guy but the guy who told him that was the way to go is the culprit and there should be no doubt who it was that suggested it.
The very first thing CRG recommended was reducing payroll from $145 to $100 among a list of 12 different action steps to stop the bleeding. I’m not as concerned about a payroll of $100 million after seeing three straight World Series go to teams at around that level. Our mission and goal should be to spend right, not spend more. It’s ok to eclipse 100 if we are a player away, that’s a different story. But we’re not there yet.
OK but when they said to cut payroll to 100Mil were they suggesting to do so by getting rid of all the contracts that were worth the money as oppoed to trying to shed the ones who were not drawing or producing?
the 140Mil was too much mostly because of the BAD contracts….
All the money saved were for good players while the bad contracts remained.
Which is why we STILL can’t spend because of those bad contracts still eating up the payroll.
And it shoud be pointed out that anything CRG looked at was based on revenue stagnation.
And we all know that could have been solved by increasing revenue there by increasing the ability to have a higher payroll because that signing would generate some revenue.
As it stands they LOST revenue so if CRG were to do a re-assess today they would probably suggest a 80-90 Mil Payroll was the right thing to do.
Uhhh the SF Giants payroll was $132 million last season. And they raised payroll $40 million from 2010 when it was in the mid 90′s. So…
We can blame the Wilpons for agreeing with that guy but the guy who told him that was the way to go is the culprit and there should be no doubt who it was that suggested it”
MOTHERF***ING FU** YOU THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Plain and simple, the man does not like to hand out money, small market mentality was also the reason he got the call from selig to come help the wilpons..
Don’t get that guy at $6 million, let’s spend $2 million on 3 guys and we will get the same production .. SMH
LOL JoeD made a valid point about CRG, the problem is not in the lowering of payroll but HOW they implemented it.
If you break a leg someone will tell you that you should go to a doctor….
RUNNING to the doctor is doing what they said but that doesn’t mean that was the best way to implement thier advice.
They are an accounting firm and yes they may have some experience with Baseball finances but that doesn’t mean they took into account that the team you have is what generates revenue and that the right payroll can increase revenues enough to offset the spending.
Stay classy, San Diego.
Exactly! As far as I’m concerned this is Alderson’s first offseason where it’s all on him.
Right. Didn’t they said that the payroll was gonna be around $110 last year with reyes? Or around $100 W/o him? And where was it at? $95 million, and i am sure it was because he couldn’t keep it lower than that, $20 million my ass… They won’t spend the money, and if they do, they’ll once again go to the cheapest and less year rout.
“Lucas Duda, Kirk Nieuwenhuis and Mike Baxter – left to right ”
That probably should read “Left to Left”…
Because in a nutshell that is the major problem with the Outfield and Lineup in general.
We could sign an All Star OFer but if he hits Lefty he really hasn’t done much to solve our issues.
We all look at Hairstons success but it was due to the fact he was protected and didn’t face RHP the first half due to all the LH OFs we played and because of that got a lot of playing time to put up what would be typical for a guy like him if he was the RH bat of an everyday platoon that faced as many LHPs as we did due to the league throwing more Lefties at our Lefty Hefty lineup.
Or Left to Wrong…
LOL I don’t have a real problem with either of those guys…
Kirk might be one of the few who could actually benefit from a focus on plate discipline…
Baxter is what he is and would actually be fine if he only hit Righty and could be platooned with Duda.
As for Duda, I blame a lot of his issues last year on hitting behind the slumping Ike and playing more vs Lefthanders than the other guys. He seemed to be in there even on days where Terry played the right handed B team until he finally was sent down to the minors.
If Baxter or Kirk hit Righty or even switch hitter, it would take a bit of the pressure off to go find a RH OF bat.
Like I said during the season, doesn’t matter what arm the pitcher throws to, How he approaches the PA and where he needs to locate his pitches CHANGES depending on if the batter is a lefty or righty. That determines what pitch he can throw and where.
When you stack two lefties (and same for two righties to a degree but thats more common) you are giving the Pitcher an entire PA to get a feel for what and where he has to throw to get a lefty out.
That puts the second lefty at a disadvantage that wouldn’t exist if he has to keep flipping and flopping from his RHB Approach to his LHB Approach.
Thats also why the SYBIL lineups we saw didn’t work in the second half.
Left Righty splits work for substitutions but not for lineup cards.
If you have balance of left and right you are constantly making the pitcher change what he does from PA to PA….
We didn’t last year because we couldn’t we didn’t have enough RHB to go around.
on Duda everyone speaks about no protection for Wright and rightfully so but who was protecting Duda he got nothing to hit when he came up
Such a brutal outfield, something is going to have to change with it. Of the FA’s that went,Cabrera I am all set with, Hunter at his age wouldn’t want to come to a rebuilding Mets, Pagan wouldn’t come back and Sandy wouldn’t take him back and compound a failed trade discussion, Victorino I am all set with and B.J.verses any other Met sure, but he is lazy as lazy can be. There were a lot of guys that signed but not a lot that has matched up.
Right now a trade is the only route for upgrade.
there are still guys you could sign that would upgrade….
Just not at Last year’s hairston prices which seems to be what we are looking for.
What !?!? B.J.verses any other Met sure, but he is lazy as lazy can be.
the guy handles over 1,000 fly or groundballs in his career…doesnt hustle for 2 of them..has the lazy stigma attached to him forever
just a coincidence ….
Here is a tip using the race card, don’t use it every day. People might believe you then.
I suppose the folks in the 50′s felt the same way
‘I’m betting Sandy Alderson has Andres Torres on speed dial’
I hope not.
Beats me if the Mets were in on any of those players that are now off the board. Likely we’ll never know. One thing is glaringly true though. We don’t have much of an OF right now.
I know I don’t have the answers….
Braves just signed Reed Johnson and Ryan Ludwick nearing deal with Reds.
2014 Baby!!
This sucks. We haven’t done any thing yet… We’ll probably sign a few mediocre righty OF in late December or January.
The Mets need to stop drafting lefty OF lol *Cough* Nimmo *Cough*
It will be sad to see Torres on the opening day roster let alone if he were to be a met again.
Just solved our outfield problem. All Sandy has to do is once again speed dial Willie Harris, Chin-lung Hu and Fred Lewis.
Doesn’t matter if Hu never played the outfield before – or that he didn’t pass his physical with Philadelpha last March – he hit .296 for the Southern Maryland Blue Crabs leading them to the Liberty Division title in the independent Atlantic League of Professional Baseball – something I’m sure hasn’t been lost on Sandy!
LOL, If Andres Torres is in a Met uniform next season I may join the CORE. Nah, no chance of that happening.
I think it’s safe to say that if Omar Minaya didn’t discover and sign R.A. Dickey, Sandy Alderson would have his thumb up his ass this offseason.
LMAO!
“Alderson said “we’ll get outfielders,’’ but what he didn’t add on was, “… we have to because the rules say we need to play with three.’’
Good one
How about we move Mr. I wanna win a world series David Wright to RF…so we can keep Wilmer Flores at 3B?
thoughts ?
You can always try but is Flores ready or do you mean that for 2014?
I wouldnt mind trying Wright out in RF during the season (and in spring training). Flores can play 3rd (and most likely 1st) but with the speed and arm Wright could play RF. So yes, lets at least try it.
I dont think we’ll bring back Torres, but his replacement won’t be significantly better. Re-signing Hairston may their one big move.
Here is an option to look at If we were to make a trade with D Backs. Neise for Upton yes we give up a good pitcher. But we get a very good outfielder with speed and nice bat which means wins. Yes we would take on more salary. But could we see both the upton brothers in the same division NL: East.
Next year will be the year I judge Sandy Alderson. when no money on payroll will be Omar money and the team is 100% his. Next year is when we see what Sandy really has planned. I will judge Sandy on Feb 1, 2014. If it is the same as it is now and the last two years, then I will jump on Alex’s wagon.
People just don’t want to admit that the Mets aren’t going anywhere in 2013. Unless you plan on getting a championship catcher, three championship outfielders, and a championship bullpen, all with less than 20 million dollars.
The days of 140 million dollar payrolls are over until they start winning again. Phillies payroll didnt go up until they started winning. Rangers payroll didn’t start to go up until they started winning. Giants payroll didn’t start to go up until they started winning. Winning comes first. The BIG payrolls come second. You can’t name me one other team this century that has started spending big when they were LOSING and then won.
People think it’s supposed to be different here because “this is new york”, as if the rules of economics don’t apply here. If I hear “this is New York” one more time I’m gonna vomit. The Mets are not the Yankees. No one is the Yankees. The Yankees are in a world of their own. You’re talking about the most popular sports franchise in the WORLD. If you think the Mets are supposed to act like the Yankees you are delusional. The Mets need to do it like every other team not named the Yankees did it in the last ten or so years. Stop thinking we can be different because “this is New York”. Thank god we finally have a GM here now that actually realizes this and also understands the concept of value.
Delusional.
is david wright going to play in the out field too? alderson laughed at his own outfield and i find this quite disturbing cause it cost a family of 4 about 3-4 hundred dollars to go to citi field! they could pick up cody ross[plays any where in outfield and can hit] trade john niese and get wil myers[could start left field on any team] sign dickey for 2 yrs and get a decent catcher.
I don’t understand the hate on Alderson not dealing for an OF’er or catcher at the Winter meetings,the offseason isn’t over yet, and once Grienke signs, Dickey and Neise’s value grows as the demand grows for solid,major league pitching. Teams do get desperate,saying they don’t or won’t is ignorance,rental or not. Considering the Rays want Myers and prospects for James Sheilds,I think this primes the Mets to make a more appealing offer to the Royals for him,and he’s the “difference maker” that Alderson said he wanted. The strikeouts don’t alarm me much because he is still so young,and needs to learn plate discipline is all. Other then that, Myers is who the Mets are after, anyone besides Wheeler,Harvey,Davis,Wright is fair game to be traded.
Because the Value doesn’t actually grow, Just the number of suitors.
Trade deals are not something that results in higher bids against each suitor.
Each team decides what they think a player is worth to them and either it’s enough or it’s not…
No one says well what are they giving up we will match and beat it….
Not the way trade negotiations work because most GMs think thier player is better than the other guy’s player and already beats his offer!
Hi Richard,
The reason many us feel frustrated and don’t trust Sandy (“hate” is too strong a word) is because we’ve gone through this with him so many times in the past when he said he wanted to make moves but wanted to wait so he would be in a better position to do the things that, for example, you now suggest. He then wound up doing nothing using as the reason that the situation had changed since he last spoke.
The trust part deals with the conclusion that despite that past promises, it wasn’t never his intent to do much of anything. One thing we have learned is that by stalling, situations do change can be used as an excuse to change positions. He did that last summer, saying we were buyers as the team was playing well. Yet, as other clubs began dealing, he said we were having talks with other teams but there was still time to wait which would put us in a better bargaining position. Yet, as we all knew, the club already needed help to continue playing at the pace it was, however, not only were no moves made to help us, as the slide began no moves were made to stop the bleeding as well. Within two to three weeks we suddenly went from buyers to sellers.
He also said he wanted to re-sign Reyes while having no intentions to negotiate. He also said the money not used on Jose could be used to obtain other players instead. He also said that 2011 was going to be a “transition” year and when we rid ourselves of financial obligations to Perez and Castillo we would be able to get back into the bidding process. He also said…., need we go on?
That’s why many of us feel it’s not so much that the winter meetings are over in as much as we already anticipated that despite the talk nothing of significance was going to happen and that it will stay that way. Sandy lost his credibility with most of us a long time ago and is also starting to lose it with those who were willing to give him a two-year honeymoon period.
I wouldnt have a problem with Sandy if I saw a sense of direction…
If he traded Pagan, Reyes, Wright, and Dickey for prospects the way he did with Beltran, at least I would see direction…
Hi Chris,
Alas, remember when Sandy was being hailed as having a specific vision and direction? I wonder if anybody sees him today in the same light that was expressed in the attached.
http://newyork.sbnation.com/new-york-mets/2011/7/29/2302182/mets-giants-carlos-beltran-zack-wheeler-trade-win-new-york-mets
I do. because it won’t be expressed till next off season. like the plan has been all along. anyone that doesn’t see it or refuses to see it is kidding themselves. If it’s the same on Feb 1, 2014 as it is now, I will hop on board with all of you.
Hi CB,
But if re-building up a team for the future was the goal, rather than have keeping the star players he had and adding to them, why didn’t Sandy trade Pagan for more prospects? Why not acquire young free agent talent instead of older veterans who will not be part of the team by 2014? If Sandy’s vision is long-term in nature it would mean struggling for a few seasons as the kids progressed. Would rather have seen us lose 88 games with young kids getting their chance in the outfield and the bullpen to compliment current developing players like Davis, Duda, Gee, Parnell, Neise, Harvey, Turner, instead of the likes of Torres, Hairston, Rauch, Francisco, Carasco, Byrdak, Young, etc.
And why sign veteran free agents like Francisco and Rauch instead of relievers south of thirty who were available like Broxton, Capps, Mijares, etc. – all of whom had good seasons in 2012?
http://espn.go.com/mlb/freeagents/_/year/2011/position?
This year there are those not yet 30 like J.P. Howell,
http://espn.go.com/mlb/freeagents/_/position/rp
Not saying the above should have been signed as it the above-type that should have instead. These young relievers could still be productive as the kids come around by 2014 and as we know, a team needs a healthy blend of veterans and youngsters to be complete.
Sure that would have been cool. Were you gonna pay for them?
We were..if you hadn’t noticed, attendance has declined since then…
Hi CB,
And that is exactly the point. It wasn’t about the future of the team – it was about the future of the ownership.
At the time, the author saw the obtaining of Wheeler as a brilliant coup of maneuvering on the part of Sandy and thus the first of many steps to come to put the Mets on the right track.
Was it? No, it already was one of a series of steps we had already seen to save money for an ownership that needed to bailed out by MLB just to meet it’s monthly bills (twice). Many of us saw that as the real motive from the beginning.
It began with a winter of signing nothing but “inexpensive players” as Sandy later admitted the Mets (i.e., he) had been doing the past two years. The organization was intent on salary dumping with nobody expecting the team to do anything and thus anticipated us to be sellers with KRod, Beltran and Reyes by the trade deadline.
But the team fouled him up which took away the smokescreen of a master re-building plan as a cover for drastic cost-cutting that we began to see taking hold. Don’t forget in June and July the organization was beginning to heavily promote how the team had put itself in the middle of wild card race. How often during a game did they flash the standings and show the scoreboard to update us on important games in progress, talking about “scoreboard watching” and how the Mets could move further up by a game, etc.?
While we were told how the Mets were inching themselves up and were the surprise of major league baseball, Sandy was already negotiating with other teams to unload Carlos (he said serious discussions had begun around the first of July). It didn’t matter how well the team had played since that awful start (.575 ball) – in Sandy’s opinion, financial circumstances called for immediate salary dumping instead of further investing banking on added revenue from increased attendance due to the playoff chase.
And then after he already sent our ace closer packing he states he needed another two weeks to see the direction the team was heading before making any decision with Carlos. But note, he already sealed their fate by getting rid of KRod and thus the seed was planted which would cause the team to stumble – because in getting rid of KRod we had absolutely nobody else qualified to take over the role of closer. With that he could publicly justify getting rid of our top hitter – which, like with Jose, he had never even entered into negotiating a contract extension.
Still a master plan? What had been done since then to carry it out further?
How many promising young players did he go after via trades (Pagan) or free-agent signings? None that came with a price tag as you mentioned. Not in the draft, either. This past year only one team signed less than we did. We also did not sign our number two selection (75th overall) because we would not negotiate the approximate $40,000 in slot money we did not want to pay. Then there was the one year closing of our rookie team in Port St. Lucie.
Then there was the ten percent cutback across the board in all non-roster matters. There was the close to billion dollar debt that required re-financing – a refinancing we must remember that the Wilpons could not get using the Mets because unlike SNY, financial institutions found the Mets too risky to put up the money for.
And then this season he said we were buyers but he never made any effort to do anything to help the team which eventually led to the players feeling they were “kicked in the teeth by the front office”.
So that is why I attached that article written at the time of the Wheeler trade. The author even acknowledges that it wasn’t so much acquiring Wheeler that was important (for he might not ever turn into something) but rather the posture that Sandy was taking in which his great eye for talent and negotiating brilliance was going to lead to better times ahead.
I think we all know now what posture that really is. It is to balance the ledger books and if that means not investing more in raw talent, scouting and the farm system, so be it. It never was like some were seeing it back then as perceived in that article. Sandy was doing exactly the job he was hired for – business before baseball in the form of the Wilpons not being forced to sell the team.
If were in to win now, they why arn’t they in on Michael Bourn and Justin Upton? Where is the bullpen? where are the outfielders?
It’s amazing how a team could do nothing and still generate half a dozen posts and hundreds of comments a day. Imagine if Sandy actually makes a trade.