18
2012
The Chance For Something Special
An article by 
First, this has to be said. As a fan of the Mets, I want to thank R.A. Dickey for everything he has done and the example he set for any player facing adversity in the game today. I thank Omar Minaya for taking a chance on him, and thank Sandy Alderson for believing in him enough to give him 2 more guaranteed years with the Mets.
Dickey made watching Mets games fun when there seemed to be almost no good reason to enjoy them. That cannot be minimized or said enough.
He had an unforgettable 2012, and I hope to watch him pitch Game 1 of the World Series for Toronto.
Now, this deal proved a few things to me. The first, that we all need to have a little more patience during the off-season. Just 5 days ago, the view from the Mets fan window was foggy due to the huffing and puffing many were doing. The off-season was a complete failure and the Mets front office was being viewed by their lack of action as giving up on building this team.
They were called liars for claiming there would be some wholesale changes. They were called out for over valuing R.A. Dickey on the trade market.
The quote I saw and heard most used against the Mets by many was “There will be more substantial changes, than subtle changes.”
The second is, the Mets played the Dickey trade market perfectly. Once Greinke signed, the Mets were in business and it took 24 hours for this deal to be reported as almost done. They may have made a mistake when it came to valuing the market on relievers in 2011, but they nailed it with Dickey.
Teams were reporting back that asking for 2 top prospects was too much. The media and fans were attacking Alderson for being too greedy in his requests. And then what happened? He got two top prospects.
By now, you all know what the Mets did. R.A. Dickey, Josh Thole and Mike Nickeas have been traded to the Blue Jays for top C prospect Travis d’Arnaud, veteran C John Buck, Toronto’s top pitching prospect Noah Syndergaard and 18-year-old OF Wuilmer Becerra.
Sure, people can try to downplay the rankings that have these two youngsters ranked high. The flip of that is if he traded Dickey for two players not on the list – the Mets would hear “they couldn’t even get top prospects?”
You will have fans tell you that the prospects the Mets got may not pan out. That’s true. It can always happen. All you can do is do what you think is best for the future of the ball club. I will say this though, I believe the odds that d’Arnaud and Syndergaard help the Mets for years to come are greater than the odds that Dickey can replicate his 2012 season.
Yes, Travis d’Arnaud suffered a freak knee injury that didn’t require surgery and had 2 bulging disks in his back in 2010. Yes, Syndergaard needs to hit AA next year before we get real excited about him. But the reward outweighs the risk.
The organizations that have had consistent success have been those who had a strong core battery in place. Look at the St. Louis Cardinals with Yadier Molina, the San Francisco Giants with Buster Posey, the Red Sox with Varitek, the Phillies with Ruiz, the Yankees with Posada or even the Braves with Javy Lopez for so many years.
If you take a look around the sport, it’s likely no coincidence that Buster Posey (2), Yadier Molina (2), Jorge Posada, Carlos Ruiz, and Jason Varitek have been behind the plate for the last 7 World Series championships. It’s also likely not a coincidence that those 5 catchers came up to the big leagues with the team they won their titles with.
A catcher to go along with Niese, Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, Gee, and Familia is truly a value the Mets fan should embrace.
In two seasons, the Mets have dealt two pending free agents and gotten back 3 top prospects. There’s no doubt that Baseball America can be wrong, and has been wrong. But if you look further than Baseball America, you’ll also see rave reviews for d’Arnaud and Syndergaard. Despite the views of critics, the Mets do have a scouting department that does more than read published articles of Baseball America.
The core of this team being made up of Davis, Wright, Tejada, Niese, Harvey, Wheeler, Gee, Familia, Syndergaard, and d’Arnaud should be something to be excited about. This doesn’t even include the potential of players like Michael Fullmer, and Luis Mateo just to name a few. We’ve seen teams like Baltimore and Oakland just recently, do more with less talent that I just listed above.
As soon as Opening Day 2014, we could see Niese-Harvey-Wheeler-Familia-Gee as the starting rotation with d’Arnaud behind the plate. That thought alone will get me through 2013.
The last few years were ugly, and it seemed like there was no direction just a bunch of GM speak. Now we know, the plan was to capitalize on the value of aging players to bring in talented young players who are almost ready to contribute to the big league club. I cannot find anything wrong with that plan.
A trade like this can always backfire. A prospect is no guarantee. But to look at that as a reason to not make the deal in the position the Mets were in is foolish. Sure I’ll miss Dickey. Sure, I worry that maybe d’Arnaud’s freak knee injury could hinder his progression. But you know what? I miss winning more, and not just “hey we have a chance for 1 year.” It’s a risk worth taking.
I want to win consistently, and you don’t win consistently by keeping 38 year olds when they are at their highest trade value. You win consistently by building a young core that will play together for several years while continuing to develop young talent in the minors.
Sure, we’ve seen our share of young prospects not hit their peak. But, that comes with the territory. We look to players like Fernando Martinez but I promise you one thing, Baseball America wasn’t responsible for rushing him through the minor leagues and did not have a thing to do with the injuries that would set him back.
You cannot be afraid of the future because of how things went in the past.
There’s more work to be done. There’s no denying that. The outfield is still a mess, and the bullpen needs work. But, there is money to spend in the upcoming years and less holes to fill. Using free agency to fill in holes rather than build your team is how the best teams maximize the market.
There is more work to be done, but that doesn’t mean work hasn’t been done.
I recommended that patience with the off-season was what we needed. Now, I recommend being patient for the next 2 years to let the young talent the Mets have flourish within the system.
You can ALWAYS do what teams like Miami did last year and just go crazy within the free agent market and hope a bunch of overpaid veterans win you games. If the prospect angle doesn’t work, you can always just spend, spend, spend to try to make up for it just like the Dodgers are trying.
The Mets tried that. They tried spending, and sometimes over spending and it didn’t work and it ended up digging a very deep hole. It could have worked, but it didn’t.
The chance to build a young and talented team like this doesn’t come around all that often. That is something that we need to embrace because if it works, it could truly be something special for several years to come.
About the Author: Michael J. Branda
My time with MMO began in July of 2009 when I wrote a Fan Post defending Omar Minaya (before it was cool to do that.) I grew up a Mets fan with the mid 1980's teams. My favorite Met of all-time is (and was) Wally Backman. When it comes to sabermetrics versus old school thinking, I like to think I meet in the middle. I believe thinking of new ways to get answers is helpful, especially when the same way has not produced results. However, I think over-thinking certain situations can get you into trouble. I'm excited for the new regime, because I believe they have pieces in place to focus on several aspects of the Mets organization. I've waited this long for a World Series, waiting a few more years for another chance isn't going to kill me.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 23 | 18 | .561 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 19 | .548 | 0.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 22 | .476 | 3.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 23 | .410 | 6.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 31 | .262 | 12.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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Excellent article Jessup! Spot on throughout. I have mixed emotions trading RA but when you get a chance to add 2 potential impact players to your system it has to be done. Trading away RA is a tough pill to swallow following a remarkable season but now was the time to strike.
This is the 2nd trade that disproves the notion by many here that Alderson is just here to fix the Wipons finances. That a certain poster claims his visions are a myth. To me this is the way you go about building a successful franchise for the long haul. The last few seasons were frustrating for all of us but only a small minority of us could see what this guy was up against while trying to implement his plan.
All 3 of his imports may wind up being busts but odds are that when you accumulate top shelf prospects by trading away aging vets and drafting you will have a better chance of making an impact then you would banking on 1 or 2 like F-Mart, Escobar, Milledge,ectc..
I just hope this article doesn’t get pissed on by the idiot fringe. Great work.
Fonzie, thanks! I think what some also forget is that players like Milledge, FMart etc were rushed up. Heck, even Pelfrey. They weren’t developed fully in the minor levels they needed to be in. That’s half the battle. Development of prospects is the most important factor after health. The talent is there, it’s getting the talent to certain levels that the Mets have failed at.
Developement is every bit as important as the players you take in the draft or sign, IE, IFA’s. The Mets made a habit of rushing prospects as early as back in the 70′s, Lee Mazzilli being one example. This FO is very similar to the Cashen regime. Davey had to convince Cashen to bring up Doc in 84. Cashen really didn’t want to do it. Like I’ve been saying as well as you have. We’re now handling our prized jewels with caution with the exception of Mejia.
Hey do you think the “Ghost of Bill Rigney” advised Sandy on this trade? lol
As a Mets fan that lives far away from NY, I am sad about this deal. When the mets came into town, Id buy Tixs to see RA Dickey Pitch. He was my favorite Met. On a season full of doom and gloom him winning the Cy Young was great and could not have happened to a better guy.
I think Matt Cerrone said something that was so true. Dickey seemed like a normal human being, a man gifted with talent, rather than a talented player trying to act like a normal human being
I will miss him. But I am excited about the prospects that we got in the deal. I hope they pan out. And I wish nothing but good stuff to RA . Those who tried to paint him like a bad guy should truly be ashamed. The man was nothing but a class act.
hey saturn, an out of town mets fan is still a mets fan! Where are you that you’d see Dickey pitch?
You wrote: “I think Matt Cerrone said something that was so true. Dickey seemed like a normal human being, a man gifted with talent, rather than a talented player trying to act like a normal human being.”
R.A. developed his talent through hard work and perserverance. He was the opposite of Tom Seaver who had “gifted talent” and Strawberry who wasted it. His personal life story and his determination to ovrecome so many setbacks and prevail made him the type of guy we all admire. Actually R.A. is a normal huming being who graduated from the School of Hard Knocks.
Nice job.
“The second is, the Mets played the Dickey trade market perfectly. Once Greinke signed, the Mets were in business and it took 24 hours for this deal to be reported as almost done. They may have made a mistake when it came to valuing the market on relievers in 2011, but they nailed it with Dickey.”
True enough. Many predicted that there was no way the Mets could get a team to cave and include multiple top prospects but being patient very well did force that. Of course unless you believe that Thole and Nickeas brought in Snyderwhatever.
I told you the other day that I think you’re the best writer on this site. This is why. Excellent job.
As I was the other day, I’m humbled by your kind words. Thanks for reading!
Good job, Jessep!
Does anyone know for sure if Harvey has more or less a lock on being part of the SRotation come April? My assumption is that he will be, but that they won’t let him pitch 200 innings. Others?
Yes I am assuming he’s a lock.
Also I wouldn’t be so sure that they shut him down early.
His 2011 season was 135 innings.
His 2012 season was 169 innings.
That’s a 25% increase, if that is assumed again then he would be over 200 innings. Even if you just go based on the extra 34 innings that would still put him at 200.
I’m almost positive that Alderson or DePo said there will be no strict innings limit on Harvey next year. I’m sure they wouldn’t let him go to many over 200 but it won’t be like 180 or anything like that.
Lets just hope this discussion matters in September, because if not then they will just have him skip a start while one of the kids is brought up for a meaningless September game
why should they limit his innings?
I assume it’s because of the media exposure over Strasburg’s innings limit this season. However, Strasburg was coming back from Tommy John surgery, so his situation was entirely different.
Agreed on all points!
To me, Dickey is a great person and player to cheer for. However, his incredible personality has become an icon of Tebow-like proportions. There’s a group of Mets fans that seem more interested in following a great guy than cheering about the ball club. That’s fine, everybody has the right to cheer for whoever and whatever they want. However, I think it’s absurd for those people to bash the Mets just because they traded Dickey to another team.
The people in this cult-like Dickey fan club are acting like we literally sacrificed Dickey to the baseball gods in order to save a few bucks. As if this fantastic person and player isn’t still living and pitching! Heck, we traded him to a team that has a great shot at bullying the Evil Empire! This trade is such a win-win for both teams, it makes me feel good about baseball in general, not just the Mets!
I am so excited for the future of this Mets team. And I can easily endure another sub-par season if it means a legit chance at having a perennial great team for years to come.
Rudibager – the username doesn’t sound familiar so I want to thank you for hoping on – reading and commenting!
Nice article. I agree 100%.
thanks Boomer!
Nicely done, I could agree more. I’m a huge fan of R.A. and will miss watching him pitch in the Orange and Blue, I’m also a Mets fans and miss winning a heck of a lot more.
Agreed, name on the front, not the name on the back.
thanks for stopping in matt!
Great article!
And don’t forget that signing Alou lost us a chance to draft d’Arnaud in the first place!
It all comes full circle, doesn’t it?
great point Steve and to take it 1 step further.
Do you think when the Phillies dealt d’Arnaud to Toronto they ever thought there would be a chance he’d be catching in their division?
Sure, it was always a possibility. Dickey could be pitching for the Braves next year if the Jays plan blows up.
Agreed.
While one can certainly question some moves Alderson & co have made over the past two years (like not trading Reyes, the Pagan trade and being rather passive in terms of overall roster management), this – like the Beltran trade in 2011 – was played absolutely perfectly and this trade is an absolute no-brainer that should help this team a lot going forward. Not in 2013 – but probably as in 2014 and beyond.
Sure, god beware, both D´Arnaud & Syndergaard could get hit by a bus tomorrow and never amount to something. However, same thing could happen to RA Dickey – plus 30 million or so owed to him.
However, you can bet that EVERY GM in Baseball – if assigned to handle the Mets – would gladly have jumped at this opportunity and trade. No doubt about it.
Again, rebuilding ain´t fun and Alderson & Co. certainly haven´t been flawless (who is ?) – but there is no way whatsoever that this trade deserves an iota of criticism.
Nobody in the world would have believed that this maximum value could be exracted by trading Dickey a month ago. An assist certainly goes to the KC Royals and TB Rays for pushing the market with their blockbuster – along with the Dodgers & Tigers spending grossly on two pitchers not as good as RA Dickey.
But if you´d have suggested a Dickey for D ´Arnaud swap straight up a month ago – pretty sure the majority of fans and analysts would have said “do it”. Due to smart negotiating, Syndergaard – who has the upside of an ace – was added to the package.
All good points Dr Dooby. Great name by the way!
A lot of people compare the Blue Jays to Miami and here’s why I think they are wrong
I’m actually sending another assist to the Red Sox and Yankees.
Toronto sees an obvious opportunity in the AL East. The Red Sox are signing players for the sake of signing them and the Yankees are sponsored by AARP and are making it public that they have a budget. If both of those scenarios do not play out like that- I don’t think Toronto’s ownership opens the checkbook as much and I don’t think Toronto unloads top prospects.
Baltimore to me was all bullpen. They had a weak offense and an average starting rotation at best. Banking on a bullpen to be amazing is a dangerous bet.
Tampa is always going to be limited by their budget. They are talented no doubt but they aren’t overwhelming.
When Miami made their move, you still had a very talented and mostly young Atlanta team. You had Washington on the RISE and you still have a Phillies team with a deadly rotation if healthy.
Looking back, Miami tried to play catch up with their moves. Toronto isn’t playing catch up – they are moving ahead
thanks Dr Dobby!
Jessop great post, right on the money. Nobody was willing to wait for RA’s market too develop and Joe specifically called him out saying he totally doesn’t understand that teams just don’t value Dickey as an ace. The garbage spewed was horrendous and still now there seems to be an unwillingness to admit wrong doing; however I’ve noticed that when certain things are predicted correctly, Joe let’s everyone know it.
Let this be a lesson to you Joe, sometimes it’s better to leave the player acquisitions and their markets to those with expierience and who are getting paid to do it. Sandy has like 30 years of front office expierience while most guys fizzle out. Maybe next time give him a little more time to do what he does best.
If you have a problem with me email me at getmetsmerized@aol.com and I will give you my number and we can talk about it. My opinions are mine and I own them. Whether you agree with me or not is your business. I started this blog as my personal diary about the Mets eight years ago. It’s evolved from a blog to a fansite for all Mets fans and not just some. I dont ask people to follow me or force them to agree with me. You focus too much on what people say without saying very much yourself. Just join the conversation and try to get the full benefit of a site that doesn’t suppress any viewpoints or mocks people with differing opinions. That’s how it works here.
The right to express an opinion in a civil way. Fair enough.
Joe, while I understand that YOU are willing to accept all viewpoints, you cannot honestly tell me that this site overall is a place where all views will be accepted. Just look at the hundreds of arguments – and not the respectful kind – that form whenever somebody DARES to say anything even remotely positive about the front office. Happens pretty much every day. I’ve been criticized for being an Alderson lover while saying things that involved a completely different subject. I don’t even particularly like the guy (even though my opinion of him went up with this trade, and I certainly never disliked him to the extent that people here do). And you have the power to stop that kind of behavior from happening, but you don’t; at least, you don’t do enough, because it still happens, and it makes this place a much less pleasant one to visit.
HUH??? Go look at the post that wasn’t positive about the front office. Go look what happened there. It’s the one with a million comments not 15.
Again, we get the blame, and the opposition gets the free pass. I’ll admit that I get out of line, but as everyone knows I never strike first. Why must I love the front office because the majority does? I see them differently than you. I see them only serving to keep Wilpon here and not to build a winner. And until that changes with a winning record or acquiring good players rather than always getting rid of them, nothing will change my opinion of them. Let me guess I’m a hater right? WRONG! I’m a lover all they way to 69.
A) I don’t know how you could possibly think that the majority of people here are fans of the Alderson regime. Frankly, I’ve never seen one person come outright and say they LIKE the man; at best, they say that they’re being patient with him. Any higher praise, and I can’t imagine what certain people here would do (they already get angry enough with just that).
B) There’s absolutely nothing wrong with disliking the front office. Conversely, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with liking it. The problem comes when people can’t respect someone else’s opinion. And that occurs here on a daily basis.
this. There’s a reason that every other mets blog (that i’ve been to) looks down on this site.
i don’t know if that is true, but luckily for us while they may be lookin down at us – they are also simultaneously looking up at the number of visitors we get.
Jessep…..
Like I said the other day, you are the most level headed writer on this site. One who possesses the ability to call it as it is. You have no problem bashing the FO when needed, just as you have no problem giving the FO kudos when deserved. You are not an extremist one way or the other. This article is spot on and illustrates the quality of your writing. So much for all the bullspit “lackey” allegations you have endured here. The fact that some of them are seething in anger right now when the organization did something positive, says everything about their character and raises questions about their agendas.
I truly appreciate the kind words and your contribution to the topic!
Well here’s this in response to the throw in:
When Mets executive Paul DePodesta watched outfield prospect Wuilmer Becerra in 2011, he liked the prospect’s athleticism and effort. The Mets acquired the 18-year-old Becerra in the R.A. Dickey trade.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#dTsoHHM4k89Ar7mM.99
Agree on all points. The return on Dickey would never have been greater. KC is taking the Marlins approach this year of signing and trading for some top free agents and if it doesn’t work out, replenish the farm system by trading everyone in June and July and starting again. Tampa showed what developing primarily through the minors with young talent can do. Competing with the Yankees and Red Sox at a quarter of the budget. I think we need one more move this offseason. Move Ike Davis, let Lucas Duda play 1B and see if we can get another prospect or two for our rotation for him, as long as his Swamp Fever has subsided.
Respectfully disagree on Ike. I think Ike-Murphy-Tejada-Wright-d’Arnaud gives you a solid infield. I think Duda is a weaker hitter than Ike and an obvious weaker defender.
Plus moving Duda out of LF means you need 3 outfielders and not 2 and Duda is OLDER than Davis.
Thanks for jumping in, always enjoy seeing unfamiliar names!
Why would we trade Ike Davis to make room for Duda?
Jessep, I have been on your side of the argument all along. Patience paid off and now maybe people will lay off SA a bit (for a while anyway). He played chess, he thought 3 moves ahead and he captured 2 top prospects and a sleeper for the Mets. Everybody wishes RA well. A humble gentleman who overcame alot to get where he is today. We Mets fans love underdogs and so he came to the right team.
Only a fool proclaims victory before it was achieved. This is exactly wht one expect form a Alderson kool aide drinker or lover to write. Total hogwash. GMS of rotten teams for decades have dumped stars for prospects. Get a life. He is no better than any other GM of any other small market team with lousy ownership that thinks it can get by on the cheap. Keep up the nauseusm. I*’;m sure your love will send you a couple of tix since the morgue will be emptier than last year.
hey 51s, thanks for stopping by and giving your opinion!
Is Philadelphia a small market team? They traded Hunter Pence for Schierholtz and two minor league players.
How about Boston? Is that considered small market too? The August trade, other than Loney, was for prospects.
Texas certainly isnt a small market team are they? Yet they traded a guy named Texiera for prospects.
How about Atlanta? Where do they stand? They traded the same Texiera for a couple of prospects.
Detroit? They traded Granderson and Edwin Jackson for prospects.
How many of these organizations appeared in the World Series in the last 10 years? So you think they have garbage GMs who act like small market teams. Isnt it ironic that many of these deals, the prospects that any GM could trade for, were instrumental in the success of those teams.
The problem is not Alderson but your own inability to understand what is going on and to really review what takes place on winning clubs. Do some research and look at history. Market size does not dictate smart baseball decisions.
Austin Jackson, not Edwin
Edwin Jackson went from Tigers to the DBacks in that deal.
Austin Jackson went from the Yankees to the Tigers.
Don’t forget about that other team that is cutting salary and declined to pick up their option on Soriano.
As a believer in the long term approach of this front office I am glad to see some of the patience justified. This is a major deal which changes the direction of the organization. Hopefully, it is in the direction we want. As you aptly stated, prospects can fail, even cant miss prospects. Nevertheless, a team in the Mets position still needs to load up the system if it expects to correct it losing ways.
I agree completely with the parallels to the Cashen days in the early 80s. Few remember/research that he made the same type of deals as Alderson in 1980 and 1981. Most of those deals were meaningless which neither hindered nor helped the organization much. People want to point to the Pagan trade but the truth is that Angel would not be a Met at this point even if he stayed last year. Reyes was a money deal that got out of hand. $100M was outside the price range the organization was willing to pay so he walked (of course we know see what a ruse that contract was from Miami’s standpoint). The rest are meaningless. Even Francisco does not amount to much since he will be gone after 2013.
All successful teams start that ascent through the development of personnel. Some of it makes the majors and ultimately get huge contracts (Utley, Howard, Hamels) and others are used to trade for key pieces (Halladay, Pence, Lidge). It is a proven strategy that keeps working. That is the piece many miss.
Personally, I am glad the Mets finally decided to take this approach. Sure, it took Uncle Bernie and the financial needs of the Mets to alter the free spending approach. It is good that someone (Selig) finally put a stop to Fred’s senseless spending. That is one thing I never understand about Mets fans: the accusation that Wilpon is cheap. Few owners want to spend like Wilpon does or has. In fact, this might be the number reason for the Mets lackluster performance the last 20 years. Fred is always concerned with the team next year and is willing to spend what it takes to make it competitive. Yet he never sees the big picture and the collapse after the inflation of the bubble is only worse. Does a team honestly need to spend $130M to finish in 4th place? Obviously not.
Be patient Mets fans. Better times are ahead. Remember, everyone in the major leagues at one point, was a minor league player (excluding the Japanese imports, etc…).
great stuff! thanks!
As with most trades this can’t be judged for another few years. While many of you like to pat sandy on the back for “playing the market” for dickey well, and that may be true, he and his lackies also slimed him out the door. Not very impressive.My personnal opinion is that he never had any intention of bringing him back and as such the back and forth (if there was any) was all for show and as a result they ended up kicking dirt on a guy who gave his all and heart to the team. I like D’arnuad but he has never played nore than 89 games in a season due to injury and the Mets docs saying he is Ok is rather meaningless given the history. If he doesn’t work out due to injury most of you will give sandy a pass and say it was bad luck. Lets remember the “stated reason ” for not signing Reyes was his injury history.
I am happy we are active but as you say Jessep, activity is only healthy if it is good activity. time will tell.
Agree on Jays, their system is still deep and they have added players they can afford who are locked – up (excluding Johnson) for muliple years. They are set for multiple runs. This isn’t a Marlin scam. Plus with the inflation of contracts , Reyes looks like a bargain these days.
If Bautista is healthy watch out. They could win it all. Plus they have mostly young players or players in their prime who are the key guys.
Jon – I don’t disagree with the idea that we have to wait and see. We do. But the young core is there and if they can find 2 outfielders and fix the bullpen then there could be a lot to look forward to.
One thing though
In 2009, d’Arnaud played in 126 games, and in 2011 he played in 114 games and won the AA MVP.
Not sure where you got your #s of games played, but hope that helps a little.
The difference between Reyes and d’Arnaud is Reyes was looking for over 100 million and d’Arnaud will be making a couple of hundred grand. The injury risks between the two are apples to oranges.
Yes, however we are giving up the reigning Cy Young winner to get him. That is a major cost in itself
Mean’t averaged 89 games(is that correct)
Not so sure I agree the young core is there outside of the pitching staff. Not yet sold on Tejada who has never played a full major league season(reminds me of Rafael Santana) Murphy? Ike has potential but has yet to put together a really good full season. Love Wright but lets be honest maybe two really good half seasons in the last 4 years.
Wheeler, Harvey have lots of potential. Niese looks to be solid. Still has to prove he can be a 200 inning guy. We will see
That could be right but you’re missing some key details. 2010 he had 2 bulging disks in his back, noted. 2012 he had a freak leg injury. He hasn’t had nagging injuries.
In 2008 he was an 18 year old kid bouncing around the ny penn league and sally league. so using his games played against him isn’t really fair nor is 2007 when he was drafted he played 41 games
Fair enough…I will hope for the best. A catcher with a knee injury and back problems befoe he turns 24 sounds like a future 1st baseman to me where his skill set would be a dime a dozen. What else do you have as a Met fan if you don’t have hope.
Oh Jessup,
Nice post. I love this trade because it signifies true long-term vision and planning, it gives the team controllable assets that have a chance to be “something special” down the road, and it evolved a short-term asset into long-term gains. I love this trade.
However, as much as we can gush over Sandy for doing a great job here, we can also ask why the rebuild is only been done half-way. You and I have talked before about this…but if you are going to rebuild, you move all short-term assets for long-term gains.
Jose Reyes should’ve been traded. David Wright should’ve been traded. And for all of you worried about attendance figures because team had no stars…
1. Everyone loves a winner so eventually people would come around once the longterm assets started to mature and produce. Besides, do you really care if fickle fans don’t come to the park to support a young growing team. The only people that should care are the Wilpons and their accountants. Not the fans.
2. Reyes and Wright would’ve added good prospects to the Mets. I don’t buy the goods on Reyes injury negated all his trade value. Please. And I don’t buy the Wright has no trade value, or not good enough trade value. Please. Look at MLB 3B and tell me Wright has no trade value. Look at his track record and tell me he has no value. Look at his off-the-field awesomeness everyone keeps telling us about, and tell me he has no trade value. Please.
3. You cannot rebuild halfway. Great trade with Dickey, and many good characteristics came to light in it. But…we cannot ignore continued losing seasons and the refusal to trade short-term assets like Reyes or big-time trade assets like Wright.
Hank – We’ve already gone offer the Wright trade. I think you assume too much and I think there’s no way Wright would sign without testing the market.
But for Reyes, the biggest concern everybody has about him is his injury risk right? So we’re asking a team in July to make a significant trade offer for him when he was hurt for 12 days in July and then a waiver deal maybe after 18 days in August due to injury.
If you put that aside… knowing what you know now about the Beltran trade, about the Dickey deal, about the Pagan trade… do you HONESTLY believe Alderson did not have contact with teams about Reyes’ avail?
I do not see how you can assume that.
I think it stinks that they didn’t deal him if they knew they would lose him but it’s very possible that they valued the compensation pick more than the trade offers. Is it not?
If you assume Murphy is okay for 2B then the Mets have a young starting staff and a young infield surrounded by the face of the franchise. That’s why they kept him. Because they aren’t 5 years away, they are 2 years away if they figure out the bullpen.
I would of rather the Mets signed Dickey who was seeking what was reported to be a reasonable contract to an extension instead of trading him but I’ve always maintained if they did trade him it be because they got a lot of value in return. A Dickey start was something to watch on tv or at the game as he put up great numbers as a Met. So great that he won the CY Young and yet they traded him.
From this I take a few things. Talk of the Mets doing something cause the fans want it is greatly exaggerated and they are not afraid to gamble big and lose cause trading away a CY Young winner willing to sign what in MLB would be considered a reasonable contract for 2 prospects to me is just that.
The easy move would of been to keep Dickey and give him a 2 year extension especially with the ASG at Citi this season as coming out to watch Cy Dickey pitch would of been a good way to try and sell tickets but this trade was about gambling on something much bigger then just selling tickets for the short term. The Mets are trying to build something that if their gamble pays off has the chance to be the start of a great run.
You can see the semblance of a base of players trying to be put together in 2013 with names like Ike Davis at 1st, David Wright at 3rd, Ruben Tejada at SS, Jonathon Niese, Matt Harvey, Jeurys Familia, Jenrry Mejia and then you add prospects like Zack Wheeler, Travis d’Arnaud to that mix and if the gamble pays off this group might be the nucleus of a larger group that brings a W.S. back to Queens.
The flip side is that it still is a gamble and in the end all these players may end up being MLB busts as well.
Off topic- Jessep, if you’re reading this, can I get your email? I wanna run an idea for a future article by you.
I sent Joe D a msg to send you my email
Hitman do me a favor, email Joe D? GetMetsMerized@aol.com he will pass your email to me
Will do.
You really ought to go work for a PAC with spin skills like yours…
No one was complaining about the lack of making a move we were complaining about the lack of making a move that actually helps the team in any meaningful way!
And it’s not clear this moves with Dickey does that either….
d’Arnaud may be better than Thole (who wouldn’t be?) but is he going to make up the 20 games Dickey won and then some to be called an improvement?
Is he the next Piazza or even the next Hundley and be our Catcher for the next 10 years?
Is he the piece that is going to make the lack of outfield go away? Does he do anything for that OF at all?
Is a rookie going to call a better game than the guys we had?
Is the rookie even going to make it to the MLB before 2014? One knee setback and who knows?
He fixed the Catcher position BRAVO but lets face facts we didn’t need to give away a Cy Young Pitcher to improve the Catcher Position, hell a cardboard cut out could do that!
The Dickey trade Might have been worthwhile if he was traded to get what would be very HARD to get a Power Hitting RHB who plays the OF and solve our biggest issue because giving away your BEST PITCHER on a pitching strong team makes sense if it solves the problem of the lineup and OF at the same time….
The Dickey deal did not do that!
Sure d’Arnaud is the best catching prospect in the Minors, just as someone is the best Doctor in Somalia but I’m not about to set an appointment to see him.
You gave away and awful lot and got two guys who do not really make this team all that much better in the long term.
d’Arnaud will probably be the catcher for the next 4 years and maybe by then he becomes a real power threat in our cavernous ballpark after being used to hitting them out at the Vegas Launchpad….
Snydergard may break into the rotation in two years provided the guys we have in the wings don’t get there first and lock him out.
You gave away a lot of player and wins and we really did not get as much back that can replace that unless Snydergard is destined to win 15-20 games making d’Arnaud the plus in this Dickey trade…
And I don’t think he will be….
But you go right on spinning this as a great move….
We took the only deal we could have gotten maybe but if thats the case we would have been better off WITH Dickey and trading three or four kids to get d’Arnaud instead.
Maybe even Duda or Murphy or waited until the Deadline to get the Power Hitting OF we REALLY needed to get from a Dickey Trade!
Great read.
As I’ve said before, this is why you cannot judge the off season a failure in mid December.
I really wanted Dickey on this team going forward. Unfortunately for me (and probably many other Dickey fans), they traded him.
If they were going to trade him, the FO said from the get go they wouldn’t do it unless they got the package back they wanted. As per Toronto’s GM AA, he put D’Arnaud on the board for SA but he wasn’t taking that deal. Wasn’t until SA said, ‘ Syndergaard might move the needle’, that the dealing picked up. Credit the FO for sticking to it’s guns. They didn’t have to trade Dickey. Was only going to do it if the package was right.
It stinks we’re even in this position. But when you have limited finances, holes across the OF, behind the plate and in the BP (to a lesser extent), the only way you can fill those holes is from your farm system or via a trade. Forget our farm system right now b/c we’ve got no position player even close. The process for this deal was a good one. Time will tell if these prospects work out, or we can use 1 or 2 for another trade to fill some holes. After all, that’s one big plus with having a strong farm system.
With some luck maybe this trade can be a win win for both teams the way the Athletics trade with the Nationals did last year.
RA Dickey: ” I can’t tell you how excited I am to be part of an organization that’s committed to winning and putting a product on the field that the fans can be excited coming to support.”
Says it all about Alderson and is 1000 times more powerful that the MET PR campaing of BS perfectly exemplified by the article above.