15
2012
Do The Mets Have What It Takes To Get Justin Upton?
An article by 
How would Upton look as a Met?
In the wake of Tuesday’s blockbuster deal between the Miami Marlins and Toronto Blue Jays, I think it is only fair that the Mets make a blockbuster trade of their own. Justin Upton is still available, and despite the lack of rumors linking the Mets and D’backs in trade discussions, my hope is that GM Sandy Alderson has at least inquired about the young right fielder. A talent like Upton NEVER becomes available at such a young age, 25. Making him even more attractive is that he’s under team control through the 2015 season. Upton will make just a shade under $10 million in 2013, and just under $15 million in both 2014 and 2015.
D’Backs GM Kevin Towers is in search of an infielder for the left side. I know this has been debated and discussed at nauseam, but do the Mets have what it takes?
Why couldn’t we give them a call and offer a package that started with Ruben Tejada and Jon Niese? Some people feel as though offering Niese and Tejada might be too much. Tejada is on his way to becoming and good Major League player, same for Niese. But Upton is a star on the verge of becoming a superstar. There is a big difference.
I would also consider offering Wilmer Flores and Daniel Murphy. They have both played third and second base, and could help out on the left side of the infield, as well as give Arizona some added offensive productivity. The Mets are not yet able to offer Gavin Cecchini, but he might be able to be added as a player to be named later.
Murphy can play first, second and third. Flores has played second and third, and Niese would give them a very young and solid middle of the rotation starter, and a lefty at that. Tejada seems to be the one guy fans don’t really want to part with. It’s hard to find a quality shortstop, but it’s even harder to find a supreme talent who is available at such a young age. Sandy should not let Tejada be the reason why we miss out on a potential superstar like Upton.
Signing Dickey to an extension should not be the the number two priority this offseason, behind locking up David Wright. The number two priority should be finding a way to have Justin Upton starting in right field on Opening Day in 2013.
About the Author: Dan Valis
I am a staff writer for Mets Merized Online. I am a Mets team analyst with a focus on the minor league system, as well as the major league club. I am a lifelong New Yorker who was born and raised to be a Mets fan. The ups and downs of being a Mets fan is what makes following this team so much fun, but at times so frustrating. You can follow me on Twitter @BgAppleMetsTalk.
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Hi Dan,
But who would we then replace Tejada with at short? I also don’t think the D’Backs would go for such an offer when they could probably get better ones from others.
We dont have what it takes which is a GM with big, brass balls.
We dont have what it takes which is a GM with big, brass balls”
THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!^^^^^^^^^^
NOT AT ALL. Maybe if we were in a position to win it all I’d do it. BUT WE ARE REBUILDING. NIESE IS SIGNED FOR & MORE YEARS. Tejada will be Elvis Andrus lite when all is said and done. That is amazing defensive value. His patience is beyond his years and hes only 23. Leave him be. Upton is not worth Niese and Tejada. HIS HOME/ROAD SPLITS ARE EXTREMELY SIGNIFICANT.
Upton is not a star player. He hit 300 with 30 homers one year and was moderate in the other 3 years. AND HE HITS IN BANDBOX OF A STAIDUM in chase field. Imagine if he came to Citi field? His numbers would go WAY DOWN.
Trading Niese hurts us way more than it would help us at this point. Re-visit this situation in a few years.. not now. Upton is also going to make 14 million for the next two years. We need that flexbility. Because we’re not winning it in two years we cant even maximize his potential. Then he will command a 100 dollar million contract? WE can’t do that now. WE’re not in the position to win.
NO FOR UPTON UNLESS IT’S NIESE STRAIGHT UP.
I see your point Lotus, but Niese straight up in not enough, and Upton is the same age and signed long term as well. We have some depth at pitching so Niese could be expendable
Pitching depth is a myth. NO ONE CAN HAVE ENOUGH PITCHING DEPTH. Look at the Braves. They had Vizcaino, Delgado, and Teheran all waiting in the wings. Heck even Medlen, And that ALL FELL APART.
Having Niese and Harvey with hopefully Wheeler proving to not be a bust is going to be amazing. However, having Wheeler and Harvey only with one of them fading out and not living up to the hype severely cuts up our pitching depth. Are you really going to really on the likes of Fulmer, Tapia, Degrom and Montero to fill the voids of Niese? We don’t even know if they cant Double A, let alone the Majors. If they pan out.. THEN AMAZING. WE have a braves like starting pitching depth. Maybe we can use them to trade for necessary pieces -_- BUT NOT TRADE A PITCHER THAT IS ALWAYS IMPROVING and is under control for 7 more years. Just No.
NO TO UPTON.
i’m not saying it has to be Niese, or that I want to trade him. But I would rather deal him that Harvey or Wheeler. If not Niese then who?
Yeah let’s make locking up Wright the number one priority and destroy the future of this future but meanwhile you want to trade the future in Tejada AND Niese……and keep Wright.
Unbelievable. I think it’s a form of masochism that these fans must enjoy since they take pleasure in seeing their team destroyed, and locking up Wright with a lengthy and costly contract while trading the future is exactly that. I’m also in the camp of keeping RA Dickey. Top pitcher for 3 years and I only see him being a veteran contributor on a staff of young pitching with at least 3 good years still in him.
Trade Wright, keep Dickey…oh…and NO to this lazy lout Upton.
.250 batting average, .325 OBP, .406 SLG
That’s what you’re trading Niese, Tejada, Flores, Murphy for.
Basically a younger version of 2012 Scott Hairston with better defense and slightly better OBP but way less power.
Sorry I can’t fall in love with a player who plays in a great offensive park and can’t do it on the road considering our park. Can’t do it.
Everybody knocks Rockies players for their park like CarGo (rightfully so?) – why does Upton get a pass?
You speak so much sense, it hurts. I don’t get the love affair outside of his 2011 Year.
Let him be a potential superstar somewhere else.. then a team quickly gets angry because they gave away a future ace/mvp for a scott hairston better average type player. Sign Scott Hairston and we’ll be fine.
I don’t remember Hairston being a starter let alone All-Star and Silver Slugger
Mitch – Carlos Gonzalez is a 2 time gold glover, silver slugger and finished top 3 in MVP in 2010. He’s 27 years old, and if he had the same exact contract as Upton – would u trade Niese, Tejada, Flores, Murphy for CarGo knowing that CarGo is a .352 Coors Field hitter compared to a .260 away from Coors field?
People hold Coors field stats against those players and when there is a huge gap it’s rightfully so probably. So why not do the same for Upton? Why does he get a pass?
It’s not like it’s a few percentage points. He’s an average hitter away from an offensive friendly park, that’s a fact. As is CarGo. Why doesn’t it matter?
while I agree with you, he absolutely rakes at Petco. If I were the Padres I would be all over him.
Upton, that is.
Sure we have the talent, just do you want to trade a Harvey or Wheeler + to get it.
I would gladly trade Wright or Dickey for him but that’s not gonna be enough. And please no more of the “I bet they would take Duda and Murphy…”.
I bet they would take Duda and Murphy and Mr. Met.
Sorry but Tejada is a utility player. He is a throw in in any deal.
Neise, Harvey, Wheeler. 2 of the 3 and then another prospect. But Arizona can probably still get a better deal from another organization. Someone like Texas.
Niese and Harvey? Name a better package than that. Texas would have to do OLT Andrus and Feliz to top that.
Texas could offer Profar and Martin Perez.
Sorry Greg but Tejada is as much a utility player as Rey Ordonez, Bud Harrelson, & Rafael Santana were and guess what?
To hell with a nice bat handler to manipulate the 2 hole we want statistically appealing players at all positions.
Another guy that thinks the road to success is to build a team with each player being statistically sufficient. Good luck if you can do it.
I don’t know what you’re talking about but around the majors Tejada is a utility player. Certainly in any trade he is.
Ordonez was a gold glove SS. Tejada doesn’t have that defense in his wildest dreams.
Tejada has been slipping into a starters role for the Mets almost immediately since he came up so I don’t know what the HELL you’re looking at.
He is not a utility player he is a starter and has been. And he’s hit .284 & .289 the last 2 years while still DEVELOPING as a player.
He’s a starter for the Mets and if not for the Mets he’ll be a starter for another team. Bank on it.
Just because he starts for the Mets doesn’t mean he’s not a utility player. Just shows the Mets don’t have much talent up the middle. Here’s some SS that are currently better than Tejada: Reyes, Hanley, Tulowitzki, Aybar, Zobrist, Desmond, Andrus, Cabrera, Hardy, Rollins, Jeter, Cozart, Alexi, Castro, Espinosa, Lowrie.
Prospects: Machado, Javier Baez, Lindor, Profar, Bogaerts.
Look I’m not trying to insult Tejada, a ,280 hitter with above average defense certainly has value, but comparing him with other SS around the league shows he’s a utility player. .280 sounds nice until you remember there is zero pop and zero speed, with average on base skills.
He is a starter not a utility player. Period.
all that is fine but all i’m concerned about is his relation to the team he’s on. I’m sure you would do the same thing and say Dave Concepcion, Rick Burleson, & Doug Decinces is better than Bud Harrelson. Yes that is true but it’s not the way it goes. You want a statistically perfect team and I feel while naturally you always want to have good hitters, a winning team is lots of times greater than the sum of it’s parts.
Tejada is the Mets SS and I include him as part of the solution and SS is a position the Mets do not need to ask teams about unless they get an Elvis Andrus and i’d be more than happy to slide Tejada to 2B.
But he’s a starter and he will be more than capable of being a starter can be on a World Series winner.
O.K. well again I don’t quite understand your point but mine is this. Around the league, from a value stand point. He’s a utility guy / fringe starter.
I realize Mets fans like yourself may value him as a starting caliber MI on a world series team, but when you’re discussing a trade to get Justin Upton, Tejada is a throw in.
I guess you have a point. If it was 1974 the Mets were able to throw in Bud Harrelson in a trade to try and get Dusty Baker from the Braves I guess i would do it too.
Even thought the Mets beat out the Braves in 1973 with Bud Harrelson. My point is if you can’t find the PERFECT PLAYER you build a winning team with the chips you have and Tejada more than fits that bill for me.
A utility player usually plays 3-4 different positions
Tejada is a 22 year old decent SS who is better suited to play 2B
Fernando Tatis was a utility player…
he played 1B, 2B, 3B, LF, and RF
Chone Figgins plays LF, 2B, 3B, he is ( was ) an above average utility player
Put Tejada at 2B, get a SS who has much more range, move Murph to 3B
infield defense problem solved
To be fair to Upton, he’s basically on the same career track as Matt Kemp. Kemp didn’t fully breakout until his age 26 season.
There is projection involved in getting a guy like Upton, if he was already performing like a consistent superstar he probably wouldn’t be available for trade.
Yeah people, let’s not get upton but let’s resign a 30 year old 3rd baseman with history of choking in big spots, and with these numbers in the second half that show his stedy decline in the second halves since 2009:
992 AT BATS 260 HITS 262 BA 350 OBP 429 SLUG % 38 HR 143 RBI in 285 GAMES … Yeah, let’s go sign him to a long term deal so we can see that production ALL year instead of only in the second half of a season while paying him $20+ million per year for the next 7 or 8 years… amazing!
And on the wrong side of 29. Lets give Wright $150 million instead.
well if i had to have a choice of Upton or Wright than yes, i’d backtrack and take Upton for sure. Can’t have your cake and eat it too and Upton is not a bad piece of cake regardless
Yeah, wih no steroids to speak of, no beltran, reyes and delgado in the lineup, this has BAD INVESTMENT WRITTEN ALL OVER…
A secret part of me wants Wright to sign a huge deal with Alderson. It would finally shut people up about blame Wilpon, it would finally make Alderson the worst GM in Mets history, and it will finally show what a liar he has been about his moneyball philosophy and bang for the buck. It would validate once again that he was exactly what we three always said he was, a sham.
Alderson has become a nice little scape goat for the Wilpons around here.
As if he has any say in weather or not we bring back Wright. Thats a Wilpon move 100 percent. As all contracts of that size are the owners decision. You think Detroits GM signed Prince? Or the Angels GM signed Pujols? And it wasn’t the Marlins GM that signed Reyes it was Loria. Same for ARod on the Yanks. Mauer on the Twins. These are ownership moves.
The decision regarding Wright is 100 percent an ownership decision, if you really think that Alderson is in charge of that move I don’t know what to tell you.
Gregg, well if what you say is true and the Wilpons are on the phone and doing all the negotiating, then two things:
1. Alderson is a worthless lapdog.
2. Wilpons are not broke and spending is back in style.
Alderson is not a scape goat. He has been making terrible decisions for the most part with whatever resources he was given. What happened to using sabermetrics to find undervalued players? I guess he succeeded if you count backups like Baxter.
Other teams have been signing good players for cheap prices and unloading contracts for the last 2 offseasons while Alderson has been busy (or too lazy to try) shopping at the major league equivalent of a 99 cent store. He’s horrible with a low budget while other GMs are better at handling low budgets
Upton is over ratedfor what you want to give back to Arizona..
Alderson has become a nice little scape goat for the Wilpons around here.
As if he has any say in weather or not we bring back Wright. Thats a Wilpon move 100 percent. As all contracts of that size are the owners decision. You think Detroits GM signed Prince? Or the Angels GM signed Pujols? And it wasn’t the Marlins GM that signed Reyes it was Loria. Same for ARod on the Yanks. Mauer on the Twins. These are ownership moves.
The decision regarding Wright is 100 percent an ownership decision, if you really think that Alderson is in charge of that move I don’t know what to tell you.
If the owner is going to make decisions than why waste millions and hire a GM? The GM is hired to tell the owners what he thinks the best direction of the team is and what’s the best way to spend the money.
Not the owner. Signing Wright is Alderson and his lieutenants move all the way, not the owners
With the money being spent now, it is the owner that okays salary. The GMs make the trade but ownership has to okay money.
If Arizona wants a left infielder how about Wright?
Not gonna argue this anymore but when it comes to big money deals it’s always the Owner. 100 percent of the time. Any big money deal is the owners decision as well as any trade to take on big money or shed big money. It has always been this way. The G.M. can recommend things, scout, draft, make lesser signings but when it comes to the big salaries, that’s on ownership.
Whatever happens to David Wright will ultimately be the Wilpons decision. I assume Fred will lie like he did with Reyes and say Sandy had full authority, but everyone knows (or in this case should know) that Wright is an ownership decision. So was Reyes.
If you think Sandy, or any GM for that matter has much say in big contracts, well theres really nothing more to discuss.
I’m not a Sandy apologist by any means, but people that are upset with the way our team is run are misplacing their anger.
I agree with you, Gregg. My anger is directed at both SA and the Coupons (the sorry excuse for an ownership group this team has). If Fred and Jeff Wilpon are really as broke as they claim to be, they should be forced to sell the team!!!
I would like to see JU in a Mets uniform. However, I don’t think Arizona will trade him anywhere. Why would they? He’s a good young outfielder with power who happens to be locked in to a club friendly contract.
I’ll continue to argue it
Yeah i’m sure the owners over at Oakland are overuling Billy Beane.
ALL big money decisions are not the same and they are all not going to be assessed the same. That being said an owner hires a GM to advise them on what is the best course for his team and unless you’re Charlie Finely or George Steinbrenner (i’m sure there have been others) the case is the Owner follows the counsel of the General Manager he hires.
That’s what he hires him to do.
Well yes in theory you are right. The G.M is, again “in theory” supposed to have full authority. In a few rare cases this is true. Billy Beane in Oakland is one. But he’s a rare case. And even he does not have full control. Say he wants to sign Josh Hamilton, he needs ownerships permission to spend that money.
Florida is a good example. Whoever was/is the G.M there during the Beckett and MCab trades did not make the decision to trade those players. They simply found what players they wanted to get back in the trade, and found a trade partner. But the decision to trade franchise guys like Cabrera, Beckett, and more recently Hanley, and Reyes, is ultimately the owners choice.
Big name, high priced guys are ownerships call. But believe what you want.
Owners are overuling John Mozeliak, did the owners overule John Schuerholz when he headed ATL? Owners overuling Brian Sabean? Brian Cashman usually makes the calls for the Yanks – USUALLY, etc., etc.
You think Loria was making the calls over at FL?
I’m not right in theory, I’m right in REAL LIFE. It’s you that is going by your own theory.
Yes Loria does make the money decisions in FLA. It was his call to pay Reyes and Hanley and it was also his call to trade them. The G.M. found a team willing to take on the money.
You seem to think it’s all or nothing. It’s not, the G.M. makes a lot of moves. But not the big money ones. That’s ownership. At the end of the day G.M.’s are still employees. The owners write the checks. And in every business that you could ever think of, it’s the guy writing the checks who makes the ultimate decisions.
‘At the end of the day G.M.’s are still employees. The owners write the checks. And in every business that you could ever think of, it’s the guy writing the checks who makes the ultimate decisions.’
This.
Anyone really think the Marlin’s GM is the sole architect behind this recent fire sale?
whoever is behind the fire sale is another subject, and everybody here knows it’s Loria. But was it Loria’s decision on what players to sign? I highly doubt that. That’s the GMs call.
But arguing with you is fruitless because you can’t think for yourself and can’t think beyond “The Wilpons have no money” when the dynamics to the GM/Owner business relationship is so much more than that.
Your God Alderson is making the baseball decisions for the Mets and is doing a horrific job of it for the most part. The Wilpons are not deciding to trade Pagan and sign Hu, Emaus, Francisco, Rauch & Carrassco – the GM is making those decisions. And he’s making BAD decisions.
Bottom line is it’s usually not just the GM and not just the owners making all these decisions.
Most of you guys know this, whether you want to admit it or not.
You really think Cashman is over there with sole autonomy Omar used to claim he had? Nope. It was well documented that he didn’t want to sign Soriano and the Steinbrenner’s overruled him.
With an organization like the Braves, I’d say it’s a little closer to the GM making most of the decision. The corporation that owns them just sets a payroll and probably pretty much stays out of it.
In the Mets case it’s the GM making the decisons. Oh, wait….you’re right….it’s not just Sandy Alderson, it’s also JP Ricciardi and Paul Depodesta (2 former GMs) that Sandy probably consults with.
The Wilpons are not making personnel decisions. Sandy is.
I know about Cashman not wanting to sign Soriano. Most people know that, it doesn’t mean Cashman wasn’t the one making MOST baseball decisions because he is the one that makes most baseball decisions. In any relationships the pendulum can sway more to one side than the other but the template is always -
The owner hires a GM to make the baseball decisions and the owner signs the checks.
I think Sandy sucks
I think the Wilpons suck
I can think both suck at the same time for different reasons
You dont have to pick one over the other
I know the owners write the checks. Everybody on this site knows that. But if you want to think it was Loria who decided on what players to get you’re wrong. That’s the GMs job.
The GM presents his solutions on what he thinks is best for the organization and yes it’s up to the owner to sign off on it. You’re trying to make it sound that ALL owners are the ones who decide what players are worth spending big money on. Why can’t the GM do that? If fact, it’s protocol for the GM to decide who to spend money on, not the owner.
Gregg, if what you say is true than there are a lot of people on this site that owe Omar Minaya an apology. All this time they have been roasting Omar over Bay when it was Fred’s doing all along.
Yes I believe the Bay deal was a Wilpon doing. And I believe by that time Omar had minimal power in the organization. Castillo and Ollie Perez on the other hand, well I can’t offer Omar much defense for that.
But I think blaming Sandy for the current poor state of the Mets is wrong. This is an organization that has been a laughing stock or largely irrelevant for most of the last 22 years, and while G.M.’s have changed, Fred and Jeff have been the one consistent.
I guess you’re forgetting:
- Cards beating Mets out in 85, 87, & 89 – was that the Wilpons fault?
- John Franco practically handing the Pirates the division in 1990 – Wilpons fault?
- 1999 – Al Leiter walking Andrew Jones with bases loaded, Tom Glavine shutting the Mets down 1-0 – Wilpons fault?
- 2000 Armando Benitez blowing 9th inning save, Timo Perez jogging around bases – Wilpons fault?
and then 2006-2008.
I don’t like the Wilpons either but to blame them when this Mets organization has had MULTIPLE chances to form their own little dynasties and win more post season games is foolish and scapegoating. The Mets had their chances to shine and LOST.
And what does the last 22 years have to do with Alderson’s terrible decision making the last 2 years? He inherited a nice roster and a good farm system.
I see this as “t agee syndrome” with these people.
And if the Wilpons are so horrible for all of these years than it must take an exceptional GM to make up for such horrendous ownership. If that’s the case than Omar Minaya and Steve Phillips would be right along with Frank Cashen in the Mets GM HOF if there was one.
But reading this board you hear how much Omar and Phillips stink too. Everybody stinks but the players performance on the field for the last 22 years right?
Scott Kazmir being traded in 2004 = Wilpons fault
Lastings Milledge NOT being traded in 2006 for Manny = Wilpons fault
Billy Wagner being traded in 2009 ( instead of us offering arb ) = Wilpons fault
Carlos Delgado not being signed in 2005 = ( Jeff ) Wilpon’s fault
The Mets not being able to add on salary in 2008 to get middle -relief = Wilpon’s fault
“Scott Kazmir being traded in 2004 = Wilpons fault”
Show me a link that proves this otherwise it’s just your opinion
“Lastings Milledge NOT being traded in 2006 for Manny = Wilpons fault”
I can show you a link that says the Manny Ramirez for Milledge/Cameron 3-way deal fell apart for this reason:
“According to three baseball men familiar with the three-way conversations, the original three-team trifecta involving Manny collapsed over a dispute between Boston and Tampa Bay”
Here’s the link for the whole article – http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2120374
“Billy Wagner being traded in 2009 ( instead of us offering arb ) = Wilpons fault”
Again show me a link that proves that the Wilpons made the call. Everywhere I look on the web it’s Minaya who traded Wagner and the closest thing i found that mentioned Jeff Wilpon was he gave Omar his blessing to make the move.
Show me where the Wilpons officially made this decision. I don’t want your opinion i want you to show me the proof.
“Carlos Delgado not being signed in 2005 = ( Jeff ) Wilpon’s fault”
Again, prove it. Show me a link that says that. Here’s the story of how the non-trade went down in Jan of 2005 and no where does it mention Jeff Wilpon was the one calling the shots:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/25/sports/baseball/25delgado.html
Again show me a link that proves this otherwise it’s just your opinion
As for the Mets not adding a relief pitcher in 2008 your claim blaming the Wilpons again is your opinion with no factual basis whatsoever. I remember it perfectly and I was one of the people in FAVOR of going bullpen-by-committee because I thought the Mets were strong enough to overcome the loss of Wagner. It was a judgement call IN MY OPINION that just didn’t work out.
Show me the evidence to back up your claims otherwise from now on when you make statements like that please highlight them by saying it’s “your opinion”
I just want to make this very clear. Please show me the links that prove your comments are factual. I do not want any long rambling response that dances all over the place.
Just facts to back up your claims. If not then it’s all just your opinion.
Wait…
You STILL think that Jim Duquette was responsible for the Scott Kazmir trade?
Links
Carlos Delgado
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/sports/features/11260/index4.html
On a Sunday evening, during another conference call with Delgado’s agent, Wilpon demanded the first-baseman’s answer by the next day so as not to “interfere” with the Winter Caravan, Sloane says.
“I’m not stupid enough to believe they were serious,” Sloane says, still angry. “I knew what they were trying to do, which is why I told Carlos that when you’re confronted by a bully, you hit him in the mouth.” Sloane delivered his punch on ESPN, which suddenly ran a report saying the Mets had withdrawn from the Delgado sweepstakes. At midnight Sunday, a stunned Jeff Wilpon, watching TV at home, called Minaya, who spent Monday re-entering the hunt. To no avail: On Tuesday, Delgado signed with Florida. “I don’t think he ever really wanted to be a Met,” Wilpon says.
————————————————————————————————————————————
That doesn’t prove anything. Did Wilpon call Minaya to find out what’s up? Did he call the agent to help speed things up?
It says nothing. It doesn’t say “jeff wilpon was the one who pulled the trigger on Carlos Delgado not Omar Minaya”
And did I say anything about Jim Duquette?
Maybe it was Rick Peterson who was responsible for Kazmir’s trade?
“However, the worst was yet to come. There had been rumors since spring training that Mets pitching coach Rick Peterson was not fond of Scott Kazmir’s mechanics or his attitude. His performance in St Lucie was still very good, and Kazmir had just been promoted to Double-A Binghamton. His stay in upstate New York would prove to be a short one, as he was traded with Jose Diaz, to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for Victor Zambrano and minor league reliever Bartolome Fortunado.”
http://www.blueandorange.net/?p=30
And here Duquette actually talks about when he made the trade and why:
http://metsblog.com/uncategorized/quote-jim-duquette-on-scott-kazmir/
- I’ve shown you Duquette ACTUALLY discussing it
- And I’ve shown you evidence of Rick Peterson being unhappy with Kazmir – draw your own conclusions.
Now it’s your turn, show me a link where Jeff (or Fred) take responsibility for the Kazmir trade.
Billy Wagner
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-03-04/sports/27057965_1_jerry-manuel-mets-billy-wagner
BRAVE NEW WORLD: Billy Wagner said he had a personal pledge from owner Fred Wilpon that the reliever’s option for this season would not have been picked up if he had remained instead of being traded to the Red Sox last August. Wilpon understood Wagner’s desire to continue amassing saves. It likely would have been impractical to pick up Wagner’s $8 million option as a set-up man to Francisco Rodriguez anyway.
So you are saying that
“WILPON DEMANDED the first-baseman’s answer by the next day so as not to “interfere” with the Winter Caravan, Sloane says.”
DID NOT AFFECT NEGOTIATIONS???
lol ok
“Did he call the agent to help speed things up?”
lol
now you are just being hard-headed for the sake of it
I have shown you direct QUOTES from THE AGENT implicating JEFF WILPON giving an ULTIMATUM
And actually it was AL GOLDIS that was the archetect of that deal. Al Goldis came from Tampa Bay, was in love with Victor Zambrano. When a reporter asked Rick Peterson about Victor, he said he could fix him in 15 min., but Rick was not the driving force behind that deal.
AL GOLDIS was a long time friend of the Wilpons and was Jeff’s boyhood batting coach when he lived in Queens.
Al had more pull with the Wilpons than Jim Duquette, who was only an interim GM because Steve Phillips was fired and Omar Minaya turned them down in 2004….
So Fred Wilpon tells Wagner that his option would not have been picked up if he stayed, so?
Owners can’t talk business with ballplayers? Doesn’t mean Fred did or didn’t know Wagner’s fate. Not seeing any decisions by any Wilpons here
Okay,
And where is it that Carlos Delgado was Jeff Wilpon’s decision?
All you’re giving is reports on things that happened during negotiations and I’m not surprised at that.
- But show me where going after Delgado was the Wilpons idea and not Omars.
- Omar is still the guy who seeked Delgado out and tried to sign him. Whatever drama that traspired..including Delgado who actually questioned why his ethnicity was so important to Minaya – and that’s well documented.
- I showed actual proof. I showed you where Boston and Tampa were directly blamed for the collapse of the Ramirez trade
- I showed you an interview where Duquette actually talks about the Kazmir trade. Here’s Fred Wilpon actually giving credit to that front office for making the trade and basically seeming like he’s mad about it:
“Is he still pitching?” he asked, joking. “Yeah, of course you do. At the time when they made that decision, Jeff [Wilpon] and I got on the conference call and there were I don’t know how many people, but a lot of people, who had collectively more knowledge than you could imagine in terms of baseball. And they said just why they wanted to do that. It was obviously wrong. Zambrano is no longer here.+
http://meaningfulgamesdotcom.blogspot.com/2007/02/wilpon-finally-comments-on-scott-kazmir.html
You’re just giving me drama and behind the scenes snippets. And maybe The Wilpons could instruct the GM to try and cut costs and naturally that’s going to be a player but i still see no evidence of the Wilpons actually making a personnel decision. And outside of Mike Piazza which i believe they did – i still see nothing else.
The story stays the same. The owner hires the GM to make personnel decision, run the ballclub, make the moves and then bring over the checks to sign. Can owners ever get involved in the negotiations? I’m sure they do. But that’s because the GM was the one who made it happen.
so a player can call up the owner, work out an agreement where the team wont offer him arbitration and the GM still get the full blunt of the blame.
lmao
ok
I never said that Carlos Delgado was Jeff Wilpon’s choice.
I said that the Wilpons interfered in negotiations and messed up by giving him an ultimatum.
But a direct quote from Sloane is not enough for you.
Neither is a direct quote from Jeff Wilpon.
Nope, to you, an owner giving a player an ultimatum is not considered interfering with a GM’s job
lmao
“so a player can call up the owner, work out an agreement where the team wont offer him arbitration and the GM still get the full blunt of the blame.
lmao
ok”
Too bad that didn’t happen. Where is your post that a player called up the owner and worked out an agreement? Or is that your interpretation? Your version?
Wagner was promised by Wilpon that his option would not be picked up if he stayed but where is the phone call you just mentioned?
“Nope, to you, an owner giving a player an ultimatum is not considered interfering with a GM’s job”
Who said anything about interfering? I’m sure crap goes down all the time.
You guys claim the Owners are making roster decisions. That’s the subject. Interfering is not the subject. But i see you’re trying to water it down.
Okay, i’m done playing today. Goodnight. Oh and you and Greg shouldn’t feel bad, just blame the Wilpons.
So now it matters HOW Fred Wilpon delivered the pledge?
lmaoooooo
Fred wrote him a letter…mailed with a stamp….
Fred wrote him an email
Fred sent it via text
Fred told him over the phone
Any and Every one of these methods results in the GM NOT being able to offer arbitration and receive a draft pick
bwahahahahahahahahaha
so not being able to offer arbitration is NO LONGER A ROSTER DECISION?!?!
bwahahahahahaha
go back to sleep
bwahahahahahahaha
I’ll never understand why you boys here always have to be so harsh toward one another. Looking at Upton I dont see anyone on the roster or on the farm that comes close to his potential. I really have no interest in these players like Rick Ankiel or Cody Ross. At 25 he was forced to grow up in the majors in a hurry. We need a player we can plug in at right field and I dont see anyone offering up a better option. It would be nice to have a regular right fielder again who will stick around for a few years. I dont think we’ve had one since Strawberry went to LA.
I like upton too, I just dont see how a team that already has multiple holes can trade several players to get one back.
There was a story a few days ago about Upton having some serious ligament or tendon issue in his hand. Any truth to that? He may be 25, but a hand injury can make a hitter 35 really fast. The Mets should just sit on their top starters. Wheeler and Harvey are untouchable, IMO. Santana is probably done, Gee is unknown coming off a serious medical problem. And some of you want to trade young starters like Niese?
Trade Murphy, Duda, ‘Spin, any of those guys — I just don’t think you get much for them.
The Mets are not a trade or two from greatness. Potential greatness is still down on the farm. And keep Tejeda, he is a starter.
thumb injury in his left hand. Actually you can see that it affected his swing because sometimes he would follow through with only his right hand on the bat, which nobody ever does.
No. Next post.
Of course they do, but sadly, they won’t even attempt to put something together.
O.K. physco man from Bayonne, you do realize Jeff Wilpon is COO. And he has been since 2003. Do you not know what the COO job entails?
Heres your stupid link:
“He’s under contract this year, we have an option for next year, there’s no gun to anybody’s head,” Mets chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon said Wednesday. “So let it just play out and at the right time Sandy and I will discuss it and it will move on.”
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/05/31/mets-coo-jeff-wilpon-no-rush-to-lock-up-david-wright/
You want a bibliography too? If you think Jeff Wilpon doesn’t have his hands all over this roster you are severely misinformed.
Checkmate son. Now go get your shine box.
easy chester,
There is no check mate here. Easy big fella. What if Jeff Wilpon says it’s ultimately Sandy’s call and he’ll abide by his GM decision?
Your link says NOTHING.
And anyway big guy…the whole debate is about Owners and General Managers and you said ALL Owners sign off on ALL expensive free agents.
You’re wrong. Every relationship is different it’s no secret to anybody that Owners hire GM to make the baseball decisions and of course the GM has to go by his boss to okay any signings. But in the natural order of things it’s the GM that ultimately makes the decision.
So since you want to play like that why don’t you take the shoebox and shove it right up your ass
Jeff Wilpon has his hands all over this roster? Really? Okay let’s take the starting lineup one player at a time:
Andre Torres – I guess Jeff Wilpon told Sandy, Depo, & JP to make this trade huh?
Ruben Tejada – Did Jeff WIlpon draft him?
David Wright – Did Jeff Wilpon draft him too? Or was it Fred?
Ike Davis – Another Jeff Wilpon player right?
Daniel Murphy – Thanks to God Jeff Wilpon discovered him, correct?
Scott Hairston – oh wait..that move worked out so that’s a Sandy player right? Because if it was Jeff Wilpon getting all these players maybe he should be the GM
Lucas Duda – Jeff Wilpon really has an eye for talent hasn’t he?
Josh Thole – Oh i dunno let’s blame Omar for this one right? Or was it Jeff Wilpon?
Rauch & Francisco – oh what the heck, let’s just blame Omar for this one. Orrrr we can blame Jeff Wilpon. But blame Sandy for this? No way!!
Johan Santana – great trade by Omar…er …i mean Jeff Wilpon
Dillon Gee – Jeff Wilpon isn’t doing so bad as a scout
Jon Niese – maybe Jeff Wilpon should be running the minor leagues with his track record for drafting such talent!
Who did i miss? Fred Lewis? Brad Emaus?
Uhhhh, no
Upton’s offensive numbers at each and every stadium
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=uptonju01&year=Career&t=b#site