Oct
20
2012

When San Diego’s History Repeats Itself In Queens

An article by Jessep

After reading Joe D’s post on SandyBall, I remembered an interview I did with an author from Gaslamp Ball, a San Diego Padres fan site.

Joe D points to the fans view of Alderson from his time with the San Diego Padres, and I couldn’t help but think about this quote from the Gaslamp author:

“In most cases I felt that he was trying to do the right thing by building from within and creating a “pipeline” of young talent, but he left the club in a worse place than when arrived. Much of that can be blamed on owner John Moores divorce, but Alderson needs to take his share of the responsibility.”

Most Padres fans I encounter either through personal connections of keeping pace with Gaslamp Ball feel that Alderson didn’t accomplish what he set out to do, but they also point to a disaster of an ownership situation. Remember, Alderson was brought in by the owner and was pretty much there to do the role the General Manager was supposed to. They created a problem from jump street because they still had Kevin Towers who was GM, but they brought in a President whose goal it was to run the organization. It was a power struggle from day 1.

All of that doesn’t concern me though to be honest. What concerns me is when history starts to repeat itself. Here are some examples: (All Padres related quotes courtesy of Gaslampball.com)

September 18^th, the Mets fire AAA Pitching Coach Mark Brewer. GM Sandy Alderson didn’t go into much detail, but Paul DePodesta did when he said:

“When you have a system where people are going to run through a number of different stops along the way, and they’re going to have a number of different instructors – in our case from the Dominican Summer League and all the way up to New York – it’s important that they get told the same things. “

September 28^th, 2008, the Padres hitting coach Wally Joyner resigns right before the season ended much to the surprise of Padres fans. Joyner told XX Sports Radio that he resigned because he felt he wasn’t involved in things he should have been involved in as a hitting coach and felt other people would try to talk to hitters and go against what he was telling them.

When Alderson was asked about it, he said

“Resigning six days in advance and taking a few shots in the meantime — going into the clubhouse and doing what? Teaching a philosophy that we don’t accept or subscribe to? He put us in a very difficult decision.”

Paul DePodesta took it a step further,

“Readers have asked that I comment about the resignation of our hitting instructor, and this is my way of doing so. If Wally really didn’t believe in our philosophy, then he absolutely did the right thing for everyone involved. I’m sure it was not fun for him to swim against the tide, and he realized that it wasn’t good for the organization either. Again, this is not offering any judgment on who is right or wrong – that’s immaterial, and there really isn’t a right or wrong philosophy.”

Jose Reyes & Trevor Hoffman

If you don’t know, many Padres fans blame Sandy Alderson for the fact Trevor Hoffman left San Diego the way he did. If you don’t know, Hoffman had a contract offer from the Padres following the 2008 season, and they pulled that offer in November before it was signed – which made Hoffman a free agent.

From that point on, Alderson played a similar game to the one we witnessed with Reyes. Here are some quotes that may sound a bit familiar to you:

“I have reached out through a number of sources to try and initiate some conversation with Trevor. It hasn’t been successful yet. I remain open to it and I hope at some point he will as well. That’s kind of where that stands at the moment.” – Sandy Alderson

Then 1 week later, Trevor Hoffman said

“We haven’t gotten any phone calls. We’re more than willing to listen to anything out there. They’re the ones that took the deal off the table. They’re the ones that wanted to go a different direction. If they reach out and legitimately want to make a point of talking, they know how to get ahold of us.”

Then after a month of “no talk”, rumors came out that Hoffman may sign with the Dodgers or Brewers – Alderson responded with

“It sounds like something is imminent. We have not renewed our offer or an offer and at this point wouldn’t expect that we would.”

5 days later, after no offer or official contract talks

“Padres fans, including me over the last several years, have been privileged to witness Trevor’s year in, year out excellence. The sound of “Hells Bells” and the appearance of Trevor jogging to the mound late in a game will be sorely missed, as will his many off-field contributions to the San Diego community. We wish him well in Milwaukee.”

These situations seem pretty similar in some ways, and what concerns me is not that Alderson didn’t want an aging closer – what concerns me is that he seemed to go about negotiations with a Padres Hall of Famer in almost the same way he went about negotiations with a player who could have been a Mets Hall of Famer – yet we are being told with regards to Wright that Alderson learned from his mistakes with Reyes? How can that be if he didn’t learn from his mistakes with Hoffman a few years prior?

If Alderson is in Flushing to turn the team into a winner, and not simply to get the finances in order – then he needs to avoid making similar mistakes from his last job in San Diego. I believe Alderson likes to control the organization in every aspect, and if you’re winning – that’s a good thing. If you’re not – then you’re going to get run out of town quickly. With regards to Hoffman, I think that was Alderson’s way of putting everybody on notice that the players and the fans do not call the shots – and I believe that’s exactly what he did in the Reyes negotiations. I do believe Reyes had his faults as well but with regards to Alderson, it was his first real chance to put his own stamp on the Mets and show everybody who was in charge.

I still contend, the David Wright contract will tell you everything you need to know about Sandy Alderson and this franchise’s future. Extending Wright to me is a necessity because it sends a message to the fans, the players, and everybody else that the financial problems of the past are done. It tells me that David Wright was given a few reasons to believe the Mets intend on righting the ship very soon.

It also shows an ability to learn from mistakes, and understand that even if you’re not always a fan of longterm deals, sometimes it is in the franchise’s best interest to commit.

If they let him walk, or trade him for questionable prospects, it will simply prove that they aren’t here to try and build a winner anytime soon but merely get the Wilpon’s back on their feet financially and roll the dice with their prospects and hope they were right.

I’ve said from the start that I am willing to give Alderson 3 years to prove he wants to win in New York. I recognize he came into a job where the team was in financial crisis, I accept it – because I cannot change it. His interview toward the end of the season with WFAN’s Mike Francesa put a lot of pressure on this off-season, because it put supporters like me in a spot to say “prove it.”

He made a lot of statements, and he’s going to be held to those statements. If he doesn’t come through with some drastic roster changes for 2013 – his supporters like myself will simply respond with the same words he uttered with regards to Wally Joyner – “Teaching a philosophy that we don’t accept or subscribe to? He put us in a very difficult decision.”

About the Author: Michael J. Branda

My time with MMO began in July of 2009 when I wrote a Fan Post defending Omar Minaya (before it was cool to do that.) I grew up a Mets fan with the mid 1980's teams. My favorite Met of all-time is (and was) Wally Backman. When it comes to sabermetrics versus old school thinking, I like to think I meet in the middle. I believe thinking of new ways to get answers is helpful, especially when the same way has not produced results. However, I think over-thinking certain situations can get you into trouble. I'm excited for the new regime, because I believe they have pieces in place to focus on several aspects of the Mets organization. I've waited this long for a World Series, waiting a few more years for another chance isn't going to kill me.

19 Comments + Add Comment

srt October 20, 2012 at 3:04 pm

Mets ‘financial problems of the past are done.’
I don’t believe they are. In fact, I’d say far from it since they’re still trying to raise cash by restructuring an SNY loan.

I’ll be very surprised if we see ‘drastic’ roster changes for 2013. Can’t see how that can happen given the financial situation. Not unless they start trading from a depth I still see as thin. Goes w/o saying tough that if Wright and/or Dickey can’t be extended, I believe we’ll see trades involving them. Beyond that, I’m not so confident. Not this off season anyway.
- Stick October 20, 2012 at 4:30 pm
  
  like you said, if they do actually extend Wright and Dickey, that is it. A little shuffling of spare parts and make-good guys, and that is it. So you better have liked the 2012 team, because you will be seeing it again.
  
  Now, if they go smart (my opinion again of course) and trade them both (if they can get high quality just about ML ready guys at positions of need), then you will see major changes (beyond those 2 obvious ones) since that will start a lot of dominoes falling, and would actually free up $ if they wanted to sign a FA or trade for a significant contract.
- TX October 20, 2012 at 5:07 pm
  
  I would think restructuring the loan is pretty standard, no? Get a better rate, restructure. Same with home loans, no? I don’t think it directly relates to them being on the corner, begging for nickels. I’m sure they still have tight purse strings, but I can’t relate restructuring a lone to being flat broke.
- Des October 20, 2012 at 6:03 pm
  
  Successfully restructuring a loan typically reflects a positive view by the owner and the lender. If any of us hasn’t switched to a lower rate credit card, or is still using a debit card, shame on you. Often this reflects a bad credit rating which the Mets don’t have anymore.
Stick October 20, 2012 at 4:27 pm

My opinion is that he never intended to be here long term. At most he will finish out his contract, and I would not be at all surprised if he stepped out after 2013. Whether he stays on in some advisor capacity, or has a say in who takes over (yes,meaning one of his boys) will be interesting to see.
- srt October 20, 2012 at 4:43 pm
  
  Same here – I doubt SA will be the GM past the end of that contract. He accomplished the main goal he was sent here for. Someone else will be taking over the reigns going forward.
  - Des October 20, 2012 at 6:07 pm
    
    srt — ” He accomplished the main goal. . . .”
    
    So we can say he’s been successful. Hip hip hooray!!!
    - Metsie October 21, 2012 at 2:13 pm
      
      He has been successful saving an ownership everyone hates at the expense of the team you say you love…
      
      And then applaud him!
Hank October 20, 2012 at 4:43 pm

I was with you until the Wright bit. I don’t think signing David Wright means as much as you think it does. The contract won’t go into effect until 2014, when the Mets get Santana and Bay off the books. Signing Wright proves nothing to me. It doesn’t make the team better. And it keeps status quo, and that’s assuming Wright keeps looks even remotely like he did first half 2012.

Some of us fans care more about having a winning team than Wright retire as a Met. This team has to be in the playoff hunt next year or it proves Sandy has kept us in neutral and was only good at letting contracts run out. And before anyone goes crazy about being in the playoff hunt, that’s basically being .500 come September. If that’s too much to ask, then you need to make your expectations higher.

Sign Wright if you’re going to add talent to him and be a competitive team now. Keepign payroll at $95-100MM in 2013 is not adding talent to Wright. And since we’re committing to a mid-market payroll, I think the better option is trade Wright for hitting prospects, and invest his $16MM salary in two starting cabler OFs.
BadBadLeroyBrown October 20, 2012 at 5:55 pm

I’m honestly surprised a non bias article from Jessep regarding Alderson. So one Sandy apologist is finally asking for results/improvements. BRAVO!
- Metsie October 20, 2012 at 6:04 pm
  
  Was it non biased or is it just a realization of what many of us have said hitting him and this is an attempt to create a bunch of links to claim he was never in Sandy’s pocket?
  
  I applaud him for finally realizing what many said here…
  Especially where the Reyes dealings were concerned
  
  Seem as if the Worm has maybe turned…..
  - Stick October 20, 2012 at 8:00 pm
    
    or maybe, it is because he never was biased or a Sandy fanboy/apologist (whatever that is to you)
    - Metsie October 20, 2012 at 10:41 pm
      
      Yeah right….You try to sell that bridge to the masses here and see what you get as a buy…
    - srt October 20, 2012 at 10:47 pm
      
      Lot more of us that are neither a SA apologist or hater than some here understand.
      - Metsie October 21, 2012 at 2:15 pm
        
        Srt I might accept you into that category, You at least think things are going badly, you just blame the Wilpons for that not Sandy…
        
        Others actually try to say what Sandy has done is good and the team is better for it!
        Anyone who does that is placed in the apologist category!
TruthsaboutMurphy October 20, 2012 at 6:30 pm

Two options: BRAIN or HEART?

Brain: trade both Wright and Dickey to gain 3 or 4 top prospects. In a perfect world, they receive their future starting catcher, right and left fielder, and another starting pitcher. All ML ready by 2014 when all bad contracts are off the books and Sandy could then fill in the blanks through free agency. This team would have a solid starting rotation in place already.

Niese
Harvey
Wheeler
Gee
Colin Mc, prospect through trade, or free agent signing

Hopefully, they’ll be able to have enough offense to support their starters. Wilmer Flores should be ready to take over third by 2014. The bullpen, anchored by Parnell, Familia, and Mejia should hold onto leads.

Heart- sign both Wright and Dickey, wait for bad contracts to expire and use the thirty million or so available to field a competitor. This team has a better starting rotation.

Remember, the “brain” option would make a huge amount of funds availiable to sign some great bats. I don’t see how they wouldn’t be a better option that’s much younger and has zero bad contracts.

2015 should see Brandon Nimmo and Micheal Fulmer and others like Adlerin Rodriguez ready to contribute as well.
Markcomic1 October 21, 2012 at 2:44 am

Plain and simple, Sandy, is a politician. He is also not a good baseball man. When have any of his so called philosophies work? This is not money ball, not at all. This is Sandy ball and its about survival, surviving and playing possum. Its all a big coverup while the Wilpons try to get their finances in order. Smoke & Mirrors baseball.
Joey D. October 21, 2012 at 12:23 pm

Sandy is an example of how a myth much different than the reality can be created.

He is indeed the business person, the legal mind, the organizational CEO and that is what he always was. He was just lucky to be with Oakland during it’s decade of successful rebuilding and league dominance and got un-deserved credit for let’s face it, one coming in from the “cold” with no professional knowledge of the game and suddenly becoming the architect of those great Oakland teams does make for a great story in the media and a symbol for those who believe the principles of sabermetrics and money ball can be applied as dominating forces the in the professional game – even though it was not true.

He is a forceful individual with a take-charge attitude – the type of personality required to make it to the top in the fields of law and business. He is an astute businessperson and an asset in running the front office. But those attributes can also work against one if he or she does not have the wisdom to see beyond his or her limitations. The ego and stubborness required to be successful in law, finance, industry, etc. can also work against one who is unable to recognize one’s limitations and when to let others run the show.

He was eventually given such authority in both Oakland and New York and we can see from his track record that his running the show has actually been ruining the show – even if it meant just hiring those underneath him who believed in his analytical philosophies and cost-cutting measures. In Oakland, he was a close, personal friend of the owner. In New York, he was given an edict to keep the Wilpons financially afloat as a favor from their close personal friend, the commissioner. In between those stints, he has been associated only with the business end. For one who supposedly had a great track record and was an architect in Oakland, it is safe to believe other teams would be knocking down his door in order to get him. That, as we know, did not happen.
Just_Da_Damaja October 22, 2012 at 1:28 am

WOW

Hoffman, eligible for free agency, realized he was decreasing his leverage when he declared he wanted to return to play for San Diego in 2009 did not want to move his family.[97] It was announced on November 10, 2008, that Hoffman would not return to San Diego in 2009. With his struggles during the season, the Padres lowballed a $4 million offer with an option for 2010 and later retracted that, ending his career with the Padres.[98][99] It was not an amicable parting for Hoffman, who was the face of the franchise after Tony Gwynn’s retirement following the 2001 season.[19] His 902 career appearances as a Padre extended his own MLB record for games pitched with one team.[52]

Something tells me that Sandy would’ve pulled the offer to Reyes for 85 mil if he ever submitted one in the 1st place…

Sandy never had any intention of signing Reyes

At this point, Sandy is just a good liar in a cheap suit…

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