6
2012
MMO Fair Or Foul: Phillip Evans Might Never Make It?
An article by 
From time to time I will check out other Mets websites, and blogsites. I have as they say, some “friends in the biz,” and I enjoy seeing what they’re up to on occasion.
Today I was on Mack’s Mets and I saw something there, an opinion by a “scout,” about one of our Mets farmhands, and I have a real problem with what I saw. I really don’t know what kind of scout this Dave Gershman is, but I’ll tell you one thing, I wouldn’t let him scout movie locations, let alone baseball players. And I certainly wouldn’t quote him in blog or article, as if he had some kind of baseball knowledge that would either enlighten or impress me, cause that ain’t gonna happen.
I did a little snooping….and I found this explanation on Gershman:
Dave Gershman is an Editor at Beyond the Box Score, a baseball publication focusing on unique and advanced statistics. Dave also writes for Marlins Daily (a Florida Marlins blog), and the Penn League Report as he is a writer and freelance scout for the New York Penn League.
Oh ok, he follows the Marlins, and he’s a freelance scout for the New York Penn League? For the League? Or for himself? I don’t get it. I guess I just take things literally.
I really don’t see why any of that makes Mr. Gershman an authority, and someone who can criticize a Met player for publication, when his accurate knowledge about said player, wouldn’t even fit into a thimble. I have seen enough games this year, I feel, to critique Mets minor leaguers. But I would never presume to know so much as to critique the opposition. I just don’t have sufficient expertise to do that without sounding like a ninny to someone who knows.
In this case Phillip Evans of the NY Mets organization is the target of some not very flattering remarks by Mr. Gershman, which are no doubt his opinion, and he’s entitled to that. But since he knows nothing about the subject of that opinion, he would have been better served to keep his trap shut. Or fingers in his pockets.
The thing that surprises me is how Mack, my old buddy, could actually print such drivel on a site with the name Mets in the title. Does he have a purpose in promoting bull crap about our own young prospects? Look when a player deserves criticism, I am the first to dish it out, but I certainly don’t take pleasure in it. I’d much rather write positive stuff. But when I see someone publishing a bunch of negative crap, that isn’t even accurate or reasonable, I have to say something.
Here is what appeared on Mack’s site earlier today in it’s entirety:
I asked independent NY-Penn scout Dave Gershman if SS Phillip Evans is starting to show the signs that he was worth the high pick? Gershman said: “my thoughts on Evans. I don’t think he has a position. He can hit, but he really doesn’t fit anywhere as a permanent fielder and doesn’t have much power. Not sure he’ll make it.”
Now first of all, when it was still Mack writing, he asked Gershman has Evans started “to show…that he was worth the high pick?” What high pick would that be Mack? In your estimation the 15th round pick in the draft is a “high pick?” Because that’s where Evans was drafted. Fifteenth. 15th. Numero 15. Fifffteeeeeenth. That doesn’t sound “high” to me.
Now for Gershman. Hey Gershman, when you are scouting a baseball player what sort of things do you look for? How tall he is? How muscular? If he can grow facial hair? What’s your criteria? Do tell. Say, you know what? I got a better idea. Don’t bother because we at MMO, could care less. This stupid opinion of yours on Evans, that has been duly noted and registered above, is the only writing by you that will ever appear on this site, believe me. Unless you can come up with something even stupider, we could always find room for that (wink wink).
First you state he doesn’t have a position, and that he doesn’t fit in anywhere as a “permanent fielder.”
I don’t know how often you have seen Evans play. And it really wouldn’t matter if you saw him play a hundred times if you don’t understand what it is your looking at. I have seen him play just ten times this year. But I have been impressed over and over by his ability to play shortstop. What I have seen is a guy with a very strong and accurate arm, who makes all the plays he should make at short.
Playing at Brooklyn this year, Evans has handled 226 chances at shortstop and committed four errors. That translates to a fielding percentage of .982. For his career, Ozzie Smith had a .978 fielding percentage. Evans has also, despite his young age, been a leader on the infield for the Cyclones.
When I have seen him play, I noticed one thing about him that he has a knack for. He is very good at picking up an out on a play, where there really wasn’t an out to get. On at least three to four different occasions I saw him field slowly hit ground-balls, in incredibly awkward positions, and make throws from all different angles.
He’d flip the ball from somewhere that looked like his arm-pit in time to nip a runner at second. He’d field a tough hop and throw across his body on the run, and still get the runner at first. I have seen him make a throw from deep in the hole, and the kid’s arm is impressive. By the time he reaches the upper levels his arm may only grade out as a bit above average for a big league shortstop, but what’s wrong with that? Not everyone can throw the ball like Jose Reyes.
The best example of his unappreciated abilities to me, was in a game on July 1st at Hudson Valley. It was the bottom of the ninth, with the Cyclones nursing a 3-0 lead. Hudson Valley had the bases loaded with one out, tying run on first. The Renegade hitter bounced a slow hopper in between short and third, Evans charged aggressively, while angling to his right. He fielded the ball off balance and leaning way forward, but was able to stay on his feet long enough to rifle a side-arm throw across his body to Richie Rodriguez at second. Rodriguez, with the runner from first plowing into his legs, made a rocket throw to first to just barely nip the runner in a bang-bang play that won the game.
That was a sensational double-play even by big league standards, and would not have been possible if not for a spectacular play by Evans. Getting the out at second was enough, but to do it in time to complete a game-ending double-play is what makes a player, a winning player.
Second, Gershman says that Evans can hit, but “doesn’t have much power.”
Look, I’m not saying Evans is the next Greg Luzinski. All I want to point out is this: Evans is 19-years-old. He is playing in the New York Penn League, where the average player has gone to college and is between 21 and 22-years-old. In Ike Davis’ first year in pro-ball at Brooklyn, he hit zero home runs. And he had spent three years at a major college program already, Evans was playing in high school last year. This season in 182 at-bats, Evans already has five home runs, which is not a bad start. For a young guy, 5’10″ and 185 lbs. I would say he has “shown some pop.” But “doesn’t have much power?” How did you come up with that assessment Gershman? Never mind.
And then if he hadn’t dazzled you with his brilliant observations up to that point, Gershman, Mack’s “expert,” went on to sum up Evans by saying: “Not sure he’ll make it.” Whoa, hold the presses. Gershman has spoken!
Hey Gershman, guess what? We’re not sure you’re going to make it either.
About the Author: Peter Shapiro
The first time I went to Shea was not for a Mets game, it was for the Beatles concert there in August of '66. My first Met game was '67, a guy named Salty Parker was the interim-manager then. My first pennant race was 1969. As a 12 year-old that summer and fall, I managed to get to the park for 3 games. The first was the beginning of the Miracle which actually started on Tuesday July 8, 1969 with a day game against the Cubs. I was there a lot in '73. I saw games 3 & 5 of the 1973 NL Playoffs against the "Big Red Machine", from the upper deck behind home plate. It was from there that I witnessed the fight between Bud Harrelson and Pete Rose, and the mayhem that ensued. And that sweet victory in game 5! I saw a couple of WS games at Shea that year against that legendary Oakland A's club. I was there in 1985 for every single game Dr. K pitched including his two 16 strikeout performances, and the day he one-hit the Cubs on an infield single and the Mets won 1-0. I loved being a Met fan in those days. Hopefully we are once again preparing to emerge from the darkness.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 25 | 18 | .581 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 21 | .523 | 2.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 23 | .477 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 17 | 24 | .415 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 12 | 32 | .273 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/19/2013
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That site is always putting down Mets prospects, but who has this guy scouted? I didn’t know scouts worked for league offices only teams.
Yeah I don’t get it either. It says he works for something called the Penn League Report, but that doesn’t make him a scout does it? I mean I write for MMO, but I’m not a scout. So who the hell does he scout for?
Sounds like he’s a self proclaimed scout. Maybe he’ll read this and come back and set the record straight with a few names of players he actually scouted and signed. But from what he said about Evans, it doesn’t sound like he could spot talent of it came and bit him on the ass.
I am tired of reading the BS from these folks who probably never played a day in their life. How can you say that a 19 yr. old will make it or not. I know Phillip Evans, I watched him play 4yrs. of high school baseball and he is a winner. The game ending 2x play that you have described is a typical Phillip play. Damn I hate these EX-sperts
Hey PNC, how you doin’? Thanks for weighing in!
Keep up the good work Petey
Wow, this is some ad hominem filth by the writer of this piece. Goodness gracious. Attack the opinions, not the person. Especially a person you’ve never met.
Well James, I would be very interested if you would tell me how I attacked him personally? I did object to his opinions, very strongly. But I did not resort to name-calling or bad language.
I did openly mock his asinine opinions regarding a Mets player, for which I will stand behind my mocking. But I did not perform a personal attack on Mr. Gershman except to imply I do not think much of him as a scout, which HE claims he is, not me. I would welcome it if he could prove that he IS a scout.
Thanks for your comment.
Never mind James K, I just found out that you and this so-called “scout” both write together at SB Nation.
I don’t know Gershman and don’t know anything about him. Nor do I know much about Evans. I’m just commenting on the aggressive, pointlessly dickish tone of the article.
Hey James, long time…. But seriously, you calling anybody out for a dickish tone is a bit too much. Really? Pete is defending a young Mets player who was thrown under the bus by someone who appears to be disingenuous in referring to himself as a scout. You seem more concerned about the person who threw Evans under the bus than Evans himself. What gives????
Gershman gave his opinion about a player. A minor league player, I might add. Not really an exact science projecting prospects from the Penn League. No one has any real certainty about how a player is going to turn out from such a young age.
Disagreeing with that opinion is a perfectly legitimate course of action. And this probably could have been an enjoyable and informative post, presenting a differing opinion about Evans from the perspective of someone who has seen him play a lot. Instead, it’s an unreadable attack on a guy the writer has never met, knows nothing about, and presumably did not contact before writing this piece. It’s a bit much, is all, about a young player whose future as a baseball player *no one* knows.
“it’s an unreadable attack….”
It seems everyone but you read it just fine. Perhaps you are just a tad jealous of the following Mr. Petey Pete has made for himself. Perhaps not. At any rate, I think you are a bit out of your league here. In my opinion (and many others I’m sure), Petey is one of THE go to guys on Mets minor leagues.
“Petey is one of THE go to guys on Mets minor leagues.”
That may be true, I wouldn’t really know. More importantly, it has little to do with my comments about tone and having some humility about projecting 19-year-old baseball players with 250 career plate appearances.
I was thinking the same thing…
The Mets don’t exactly have a stellar reputation for drafting and developing talent…
I mean, if he follows the league, he can have his opinion, even if it’s wrong. I mean, we never know FOR SURE about any of these guys until they actually have success on the big league level anyway. I sure hope he turns out well.
Also, I think Mack meant the high amount of money the Mets gave Evans, not the high round. Didn’t they give him like second-round money or something in that ballpark?
So this guy says Evans cant field any position, has little power and won’t make it. And your saying the exact opposite. I never heard of that scout before. But I’ve been reading and enjoying your insights here for over a year and I know you have an intimate knowledge of the Mets minors.
Metsmerized ranked Evans #14 and wrote:
Coming out of high school, Evans was considered one of the top four or five shortstops in the draft. He is a very talented and athletic player, who is polished as a fielder and a hitter, and who exhibits maturity and strong leadership qualities. Evans is not a big physical specimen at 5’10″ and 185 lbs, but as a hitter he does generate very good power for his size. This is due to his swing, which is fluid and smooth, well balanced with good weight transfer, and smooth hip rotation. He has strong wrists and forearms which gives him a quick bat, and allows him to handle the tough inside pitch while covering the outside of the plate also. He is a hitter that hits to all fields, and can go with a pitch the opposite way, as well as turn on an inside fastball.
As an infielder, he has soft hands, good technique, a competent, quick release, and a strong throwing arm. He does all the little things and plays the middle of the infield so smoothly, he makes it look effortless. There are some thoughts that his lateral movement and range won’t enable him to play shortstop at the major league level, and that a move to 2B may be in the cards for Evans one day, but that remains to be seen. He is considered a fundamentally sound player with maturity, and solid upside. What the Mets got was a very talented infielder in the 15th round, who because of signability questions, dropped to them from perhaps as high as the 2nd round.
John Sickels ranks Evans #13 in his top Mets prospects and wrote:
Overslot $650,000 bonus for 15th round pick could end up being a bargain if Evans develops as I expect…above-average hitter with some pop and solid glovework at second. Excellent makeup.
Amazin Avenue ranks him #9 and writes:
Quickly showcasing the kind of skills to validate those ‘potential first rounder’ draft reports and prove he’s a legit blue chip talent up the middle
I think I’ll side with Petey, Amazin and Sickels on this and leave Mack and Gershman on the curb.
Off topic, but with Duda, Kirk, Harvey, Edgin all losing prospect status, will you be updating your Mets top prospects soon? Thanks and keep up the great work.
Hey Little Nicky, that’s a great idea we should do a re-release of the Top 20, I love updating those things anyway. I don’t know if you caught it but I wrote a top Ten Pitchers in the system piece on July 30th.
Here’s the link: http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/07/mmo-revised-top-10-mets-pitching-prospects.html
I am planning on doing a Top Hitters piece, before going on to rank the system in various key positions. So Stay tuned, but you are right, I think we should update the top 20, and we will!
Everything you need to know about this guy is in this line….
“Dave Gershman is an Editor at Beyond the Box Score, a baseball publication focusing on unique and advanced statistics.”
He doesn’t look at the players he looks at Excel!
Thats why he gets the answer he did!
How does him looking at the game from a different perspective make him less of a fan? I’m guessing you’re not a fan of that kind of stuff? Both sides – statistical and traditional – have their pros and cons. Personally, I like the stats, but I can also see where the other side is coming from. I wouldn’t completely dismiss anyone’s opinion just because they are on the other side of this issue…
I dismiss him because he looks only at numbers and there has never been a number yet to bat leadoff or cleanup!
In fact the number 6 has had no PAs in over 100 years of playing the game!
How do you know that he only looks at numbers? Just sayin’…
I don’t know why some fans are so against sabermetrics. Not trying to stack you personally O just don’t understand the animosity.
Cause he started a publication about statistics!
Connor have you ever looked at the math and variables that creates some Sabermetrics?
Ever calculate them for yourself?
Or do you do what most guys do that like and love Sabers, Just look them up on Baseball reference and assume they are good because they are posted there?
LOL, sorry about the auto-correct on my other comment!
Well think about it this way- have you ever thought about how subjective the human eye can be when watching a game?
Also, some stats are better than others. Most people who like sabermetrics prefer certain ones to others. None of them are perfect, but the human eye definitely isn’t.
Did you ever think about all the nuances you just threw away because you didn’t know how to quantize them into the equation?
The Brain doesn’t have to throw all of that away because not only is it aware of what happened it is also aware of the situation it happened in.
A guy goes 0-2 can you tell me what happened to him all day based on that?
A guy has a .500 OBP on the day…Do you know how well he hit the ball from that?
Numbers unless they take into account EVERY VARIABLE that existed at the time of the counting do not tell you the whole story!
And no computer on the planet has the computing power of the Human brain nor does it have the ability to percieve as much as the human being can in any given situation!
Never said stats were perfect. But neither are your eyes. Think about all the stuff your eyes miss. You may deny it but you’re missing quite a lot. Neither side is perfect and both are needed to really understand the game.
Maybe your eyes miss a lot but Mine don’t!
And your eyes can tell you what kind of pitch he just struck out on or hit for a HR can your stat tell you that?
Nope it just says he got a hit or didn’t!
Time for a big chill, guys. Let’s enjoy the game and the Mets.
(P.S.: Modern electronic technology often gives us excellent insight into the nuances of pitches and many other aspects of games.)
Sure Des LOL
And you are right Des. Metsie, you should check out Brooks Baseball’s pitch f/x tool. It shows you the types of pitches to each batter, the release point, the spin, and more. You can also find the location of every hit using different tools at other places.
Here’s the link to the pitch f/x for Matt Harvey’s start on Sunday: http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=8&day=5&year=2012&game=gid_2012_08_05_nynmlb_sdnmlb_1%2F&pitchSel=518774&prevGame=gid_2012_08_05_nynmlb_sdnmlb_1%2F&prevDate=85
Yep I know all about PitchFX I have installed the system for many a Fox Broadcast!
Unfortunatly it’s one draw back is it doesn’t tell you what pitch it was that was thrown just the trajectory it took.
Can’t tell a slider from a curve at all.
Thank you for the TRUTH for only the people that have actually seen Evans play know what he can do and what he is made of.!
He will be a star just you wait and see.
Phillip Evans is a future star!
Wow, people are sensitive to criticism. Take any single player, even Trout and Harper, and I guarantee you that scouts, however you want to define that term, will disagree over his eventual production. I also guarantee you that quite a few scouts do not view Evans as an everyday ML player. I also guarantee you that quite a few scouts do view him as an everyday player. It’s a banal statement, but time will tell which set is right.
Freelance scout…I like the sound of that. I think I’m going to start calling myself a freelance scout
You will need to get a Scout Membership card but don’t worry the template is available at Office.com! LOL
we should make a list of Met 1st Round Draft picks from 1980-2008 and see how each has paned out.
I’ve done that already. Not enough have panned out for us unfortunately.
Without question the biggest mistake here was reading MACK METS! o_O
I heard he started arguments on Twitter with 2 teenagers Courtney Hawkins and mets prospect Matt Budgell and he was the only one acting like a teenager while they acted as adults.
Used to read Mack all the time and believe it or not he had some great insights. Stopped heading there about a year ago when the site just became a mish mosh of indiscernible ramblings that made no sense. He seems to enjoy going off on other bloggers and beat writers on a daily basis and even takes shots at the Mets and players themselves which is when I ceased going there altogether. The fact this appeared on his site doesn’t surprise me one bit. He has some sort of an ax to grind with the Mets.
Seems like you guys are killing Mack more than you are the scout. Peter wrote this article like he is Phillip Evans homeboy. No one knows how a 15th rounder in short season ball will turn out. Am I an Evans fan? Absolutely. But the fact is it won’t be until 2016 that you will have to start making plan for him. Relax. Chillax. And have some Kool Aid. We won’t see Evans for at least another 4 years. Who knows what type of prospect he will be in 2 years. There used to be a homeboy named Danny Muno. Some People were ticketing him as the real deal and potential starter. Then every homeboy learns that Muno took steroids. That Muno homeboy ruined his career. You got 2 legit players in TEJADA and MURPHY. Dont go looking around for the starting middle infielders in 2016. And Peter: YOU GOT TALENT HOMEBOY! You managed to take a quote and make it into a huge deal!
Chillax: all of you
BOOOYAKASHA- Ali G
Holy crap!!! How did I miss this yesterday??? FLASH! NO HITTER ALERT! FLASH! METS TRAID Q FOR CASH! FLASH! JOHAN WILL SUCK IN 2012! FLASH! ADAM RUBIN IS MEAN TO ME! FLASH! I HAVE 50 TWITTER FOLLOWERS NOW! FLASH! ROBERT CARSON SUCKS! FLASH! MACK IS A HACK! FLASH! MATT BUDGELL CALLED ME AN OLD RETARD!
I LOVE MACKS METS HE IS THE PEE WEE HERMAN OF METS BLOGS!
Justin Sean, you said…………..”All Mack meant was that Evans was PAID like a high pick, I thought you were intelligent enough to understand that. Guess not.”
And Mack said……. “has Evans started “to show…that he was worth the HIGH PICK?”
Where in that sentence does it say or lead you to believe he was referring to being PAID like a high pick??? I guess intelligent people should be mind readers and become assumption specialists and disregard what someone says…
You also said, “No need to taking shots at other people because you need something to write about”…..Yet in the same paragraph you insult Petey by questioning his lack of intelligence because he is not a mind reader like Ms.Cleo…