20
2012
Decision On Shutting Down Santana Looms Today
An article by 
Updated Post 8/20 9:00 AM
Terry Collins will meet with Sandy Alderson today to discuss whether or not struggling left-hander Johan Santana will be shutdown for the rest of the season.
According to Adam Rubin, neither Collins nor pitching coach Dan Warthen were prepared to guarantee that Santana proceeds with his scheduled start on Thursday.
Original Post 8/18 8:00 AM
The New York Mets may decide to shut Johan Santana down for the rest of the 2012 MLB season after another dismal pitching performance according to comments made by pitching coach Dan Warthen as reported by Adam Rubin of ESPN New York.
Said Warthen about a potential shutdown: “We’ll have to talk about that, and we’ll have to talk to Johan and see how the body feels, how the arm feels, how he feels mentally. I’m not going to discount anything. I’m not going to say one way or the other. We’ll all sit down and have a powwow, I would imagine as soon as we get home and see Sandy Alderson and make the discussion and then talk to Johan and see how the back is and everything else — see how sore he is.”
After last night’s poor outing, Santana became the first pitcher in franchise history to allow six or more earned runs in five straight starts.
“You know, my season has been a roller coaster, a lot of ups and downs. Good days. Bad days. But I’m very positive about everything, because I’m coming back from a major surgery, and I’ve been able to be out there every five games. Right now my shoulder is fine. I don’t have any issues with it. It’s just that it has been a long season for me.”
When asked about the possibility of cutting short his season, the Mets left-hander said the decision would be a joint one. “This is a decision, whatever it will be, it’s going to be together. I think it has to be in a way where we’ll talk together and see how we feel. Whatever they want to do, as long as it works out for everybody in the long term, I think it will be fine.”
Santana has seen his fortunes change drastically since his no-hitter. His ERA is 8.27 in 10 starts since that historic June 1st game.
So, a few days after announcing that the team would go with a six man rotation for the remainder of this season, a new twist comes along.
Here’s the way I see it and ultimately the way I hope this shakes out after the Mets meeting of the minds.
- In light of the fact Johan Santana is still owed $31 million for next season, lets do the prudent thing and shut him down immediately. Spend the rest of this season and offseason ensuring that we bring him him back stronger and better in the Spring. Let him focus on extensive rehab and conditioning between now and then, with plenty of rest built in so he can regain the strength he has obviously lost.
- Even if last night was his final game of the season, that no-hitter and the thrilling three months he gave us in the first half of the season was worth every penny of his $25 million dollar salary. For three months the Mets held their own with the top teams in the league and they did it while competing in the best and toughest division in baseball. Santana had a lot to do with that.
- Bring up Jenrry Mejia from Triple-A Buffalo and get him into that rotation and lets see what we have in him. Continue the plans with the six man rotation so that both Harvey, Niese and Mejia don’t pile up too many innings on their young arms. Mejia was coming up on September 1 anyway, so just do it now instead, especially while he’s pitching fabulously since re-joining the Buffalo rotation,
That’s not a bad plan, right? And the best part is that we can evaluate Jeremy Hefner and Jenrry Mejia along the way, while giving Matt Harvey more MLB experience and toughening him up for his foray into the top of the Mets rotation next season.
The Mets waved the white flags on the 2012 season at the trade deadline. Nobody is fooling anyone here. So lets focus on 2013 now not three months from now. Spring Training just started for the Mets and now it’s time to see who wants a job in 2013 and who doesn’t. Game on…
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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The problem is really in how the Mets have handled Santana since his no hitter. The two extra days of rest, while they may have seemed prudent at the time, only disrupted his between starts routine and likely upset his rhythm. Secondly, they should have sent him to the DL after Reed Johnson stepped on his ankle and injured him instead of allowing him to make 2 more awful starts before deciding he needed to be shelved. I suspect the likely reason for this is they wanted to keep their no hit hero on the mound in order to keep at least a few fans coming back to the ballpark. I could be wrong, but that’s the impression I get. And to compound that mistake, they allowed him only 1, 3 inning, rehab start against rookie league minor league players. They should have allowed him at least 2 more rehab starts, each one allowing him more pitches and innings in order to rebuild arm strength and endurance.
Again, I think the financials of attendance come into play in the decision to rush him back so quickly. And I think THAT is why we’ve seen two consecutive stinkers from Johan. I’m not so sure shutting him down is the right course of action, but then again, it may be the only course of action due to the Mets bungled handling of their star pitcher since the no hitter. They SHOULD protect their investment, but, as this season has shown, they have alternately protected him TOO much (2 extra days after 134 pitches) and also NOT enough (2 starts after injury AND rushing his rehab). Will this team EVER get ANYTHING right?
Excellent article. You should volunteer your services to the Mets’ front office. Sept. 1st the roster is extended and we’ll be seeing a lot of new talent in the field which is great. Johan Santana not pitching again in ’12 does not have a downside. Coming out of spring training I predicted a 75 win season. Ain’t gonna’ happen and this is why I don’t but lottery tickets. We may have 15 more wins if we catch a few breaks I thought getting Kelly Shoppach was a good move. Don’t understand the negativity surrounding his becoming a Met when you consider very few catchers ever become available in the open market. Pretty slick by Alderson to snatch this guy off the waiver list. Don’t feel too b ad about the loss to the Nats. They have a really good team and sit atop the NL East. We played good against the best.
I’m with you Metfan Lou.
-No reason to see Johan labor/get shelled anymore.
-Why were people dissing the Shoppach deal? Mostly the “Pie-in-the-sky” crowd wanting the best while giving up the worst.
-Only reason I think Boston waited on Shoppach is that Boston wanted something significant (top 10 prospect) when they were still a “bubble” team; waiting proved to be best (Beato needed new scenery)
-Never buy lottery tickets!
Evaluating Mejia this season coming off TJ might not be much different than evaluating Johan right now. But I’m not necessarily opposed to it.
Evaluating Hefner? I think there’s not much need for that. He’s already in the rotation anyway.
Agree with #2. First half was fun.
I don’t get the need for rest with Niese. He’s at the age and has been up here long enough, to start showing he is a SP that can last a whole season and give you 30 + starts. Niese himself said he wanted to show that this season – trained better in the off season, had the nose surgery, showed up in ST in better shape then he felt he had in years past. But in a season where we are not contending, not really a big deal.
Beginning of the season we were predicted to finish just about where we probably will. No surprises there.
Taking Johan out and putting Mejia in sounds much better.
I think the new, youngblood-centered rotation would revive my interest and get me off the “Bomb the FO”/Flush SA” bandwagon … at least for a couple of weeks.
Everyone talks about how the Mets handled Santana but seem to forget he hasn’t been that good since coming to the team. His time past, he doesn’t have it anymore.
When I see Johan Santana now I see Pedro Martinez at the end of his career.
Not that good since coming to the Mets? Really? 46-34, 3.18 ERA since signing w/ 9 CG in 109 starts (3 more than he had in 175 starts in Minnesota) and 6 shutouts (he only had 4 in Minnesota). And are you forgetting his 2008 debut with the Mets? 16-7, league leading 2.53 ERA and 234 IP. I would say Santana has been pretty good with the Mets when he’s healthy. No one could have predicted that he would miss as much time as he has with injury. Same can be said of any player signed to a long term contract. You just cannot predict future health. I would sign Santana again in a heartbeat if I had to do it over again.
You are correct. I should have said “since the no hitter.”
Good comments.
Joe your plan is sensible. I might add the role of Mentor for Johan. Let him spend time with some young pitchers. He is a class act.
Totally agree about the article and Johan as mentor. He has been great in this role with Niese.
With the money he makes I say pitch him till his arm falls off! This is why you cant pay pitchers this kind of money. There one injury from being a waste of money. Another disaster from the mets point of view.
Agree except that 6 wins, including the no no is not worth $25 million period.
Who’s to say what the value of the Mets first no hitter is? Do you know how many Mets fans have come and gone and never got to witness that? In terms of is anyone worth25 million, that’s always the athlete debate it’s not really fair to them to hold against them that someone will pay that for their services. For me I am glad he was on the team and will remember the no hitter every time his name is mentioned for the rest of my life, especially getting to experience it with my six year old daughter.
Only problem is now she always ask when they are going to do it again.
That’s a cool story TRS and I could tell you’ve raised your daughter right.
Thanks for sharing that.
Yup, it nears September anyway so you can still carry Johan and let him Mentor and shut him down. I agree as well about bringing up Mejia for the rotation. Let him get his feet wet, I wish Familia had pitched better as well and you could bring him up for the pen.
I will go right back to what I said before the season started….
Put Johan in the pen!
Even if it is just for the remainder of this season!
Shutting him down is not going to help him unless he is actually injured and he needs the rest to recover.
His issue is what we all should have expected! You can’t miss and entire season+ after surgery and expect to have the physical ability to come back and pitch effectively for an entire season!
And even if he does make it through the season he will not be as good as he was until such time as all those muscles he didn’t use have been used and rebuilt back to the strength they were before he got hurt!
Shutting him down is not going to build up those muscles he needs to pitch.
And while he may not be able to go more than 2 or 3 innings a game as a starter he certainly could do that as a reliever maybe not everyday but for sure every 3rd or 4th day!
Maybe his presence in the Pen would also help some of the pen arms we have that have struggled to!
Extra days of rest are not the answer, and if your going to limit his pitch count you might as well just put him in the pen and use him for an inning or two more often as that will build up arm strength quicker than pitching 90 Pitches every 5 or 6 days!
It’s like lifting weights, sometimes lifting lesser weight more often builds up stamina and muscle better than lifting huge weights less often.
Thats the approach they should take with Santana, Let him get into games to keep his arm working but not in a position where if he is tired or ineffective that day it costs you 5 inning from your pen to make up for it making them tired for the other 5 Pitchers in the rotation that pitch a good game.
The best way to limit Santana and get him sorted out is to put him in the pen, Let him keep building his arm strength while giving you the flexibility of when and how long to pitch him, and have him start work towards next year as opposed to shutting him down and hoping he will recover by the time next year comes around.
As they say in the Gym, you have to use it or lose it!
I thought the same thing right after his last start especially because for three innings he was locating the ball and the Nationals coudn’t hit him. As soon as he missed the catchers targets the hits started coming. By putting him into the pen when he comes in to pitch it will be with some adrenaline and there’s no substitution for that. He has experience in the pen and I think he would feel that he’s still helping the team while working on mechanics and building up arm strength. After such a long rehab down in Fl. I don’t imagine he’s itching to go down there and if you send him home the team loses control of what and how he’s progressing.
Hey maybe he could go the Smoltz path and extended his career.
Looking at that last start….it appeared he lost it after about 50 pitches which more or less coincided with 3 innings of good work.
That might point to arm/shoulder fatigue. If that’s the case, is putting him in the pen a good idea? How will having to warm up fast, or warm up and not come in…..affect that problem, if it is the problem?
I don’t have the answers. Just speculating.
Have a feeling we won’t be seeing him in the BP rest of this year.
I don’t want him in the pen either but as an alternative to shutting him down it should be considered. This is definitely a case where a group decision with all the pros and cons have to be evaluated.
getting shut down does not mean he won’t pitch/throw. Simply that he won’t be pitching int eh majors.
Consider it more like going back into a controlled rehab program again.
Well first off thats not what they are proposing Stick…They are thinking about him not pitching and starting the offseason early!
When they say shut him down they mean not throwing for the rest of the year!
I think it’s safe to say no one wants him in the pen, Just that no one really wants him on te mound evey 5 or even every 6 days if it means he has to go 5 inning plus and risk hurting the team and it’s chances to win because of fatigue.
and I’m not suggesting he stay in the pen next year here…He will go back to being a starter next season unless you find then that he can no longer go 6 Ining per game and then decid his starting days are over!
Who says you have to warm him up fast in the pen?
There are plenty of pen situations that do not require the Pitcher to rush to get ready.
No one is suggesting you use Santana to get out of an inning but you sure could have him warm up the start the next inning in a situation where you had to go to the pen and will have a half inning to bat before he is needed. Think the 7th and 8th innings or innings where you know the Pitcher is due up and you will need to PH.
Good enough. I was just speculating out loud….
Basically it’s a plan that instead of scheduling is a plan of picked use.
You pick the shots to use him and how long to use him for.
He still gets his work in only you can limit how much without impacting the rest of the team in a major way…
And imiting the damage should that day you see he hasn’t got it because you can pull him and go to whatever BP arm you might have gone to if Santana wasn’t called from the pen instead.
Removes the imperative to leave him out there the way you would a starter trying to get 5 innings no matter what he does, and you limit the innings based on how he feels not based on how many times he is scheduled to pitch.
It’s a temp move that lets Santana keep facing MLB batters, Help the team, Get some work in, and not so much work that you risk losing him for another year.
I would be the last guy to know what’s really wrong with JS, but many people responding (not just today, but throughout the last month) are convinced he’s finished, washed up, and “doesn’t have it anymore.” Sorry, I’m not in this camp.
Will JS win the CY again? Will he ever be a 20-game winner? WHo knows!
There’s no good reason to suggest he doesn’t have another 4-5 strong seasons left in him. I hope he’ll finish his career as a Met, and show us what we can do in the playoffs. That’s my dreaming-out-loud for the day.
I don’t think he is done either…
Just that the long Hiatus left him a little light in the stamina and arm strength dept and only consistent work will cure that.
Cy Young? He doesn’t have to be! But he could for a full season be more like he was before the No No than he has been after it.
Shutting him down now is not the answer, if Less work is the answer then let him pitch out of the pen where you control how and when he gets used and you can make a decision day to day if he’s up to it or not without impacting the rotation in any way.
Go ahead and shut him down!