21
2012
Enough Is Enough, Send Ike Down Already
An article by 
Dear Ike,
It’s me Joe D. just checking in with you to see how things are coming along. I hope you’re still not mad at me because I suggested you go to the minor leagues to recharge your batteries almost a month ago. I was only saying it in the best interest of what was right for this team and mostly for your benefit. Now it’s been three more weeks and you are still batting .160 and even those who thought I was being too harsh and too hasty, have since come around and joined the chorus.
It’s not because we hate you, it’s because we know that you can work on some things which are almost impossible to do while toughing it out here at the majors. Plus, you’re not really helping the team tight now and we know you’re very big on that whole team concept thing.
I bet your stay wouldn’t last long longer than two weeks tops. And that when you do come back you’ll be the same Ike Davis that used to put that powerful charge into the middle of the Mets lineup. That’s the Ike Davis we all know and love. Pure Chaos as you called it.
So, if Terry Collins calls you into the office on Monday morning and tells you to go pack your bags and to go buy yourself a wool hat and scarf set at Walmart, don’t go and blow a gasket.
Instead, just take it like a man. Head up to Buffalo and help the Bisons win some ballgames, and while you’re there, try and find your long-lost awesomeness. Make sure you pay close attention to what Wally Backman tells you. Wally’s seen plenty of players struggle through prolonged slumps before and he has worked wonders with them. Just ask Vinny Rottino, Fred Lewis, Zach Lutz and Bobby Scales. Oops never mind about Scales, I just recalled he got a boatload full of yen to go play in Japan.
Anyway, you get the picture.
Sincerely,
A Concerned Mets Fan
Okay, let me shift into serious mode.
When I first proposed that Davis be sent to the minors, I was bombarded with those worn out excuses that “it’s only April” and “small sample sizes”. I guess it’s safe to go into the water now because everybody seems to be wading in to join me now – I think I can see Matt and Eric over there by the girl in the blue and orange bikini.
It’s just too bad we didn’t do it back in April so instead of sill having Ike here and still batting .160, he would have already gotten recharged and be back helping the team already.
I can never understand why so many refuse to believe what their eyes tell them. Davis has looked like Paul Bunyan at the plate since spring training and nothing at all like the player that thrilled us a year ago. Why did anyone think he’d fix himself looking the way he did was beyond me. But hey, the important thing is that most of you have caught up and see the need for him to spend some quality time with Wally.
Collins says “there’s nothing etched in stone”, but even he can’t be foolish enough not to see how Ike Davis is hurting the team. For crying out loud he pinch hit Scott Hairston for him last night… wake up and smell java juice.
But still there’s been no official announcement… unbelievable… Maybe they are waiting until they possess last place all by themselves which could happen as soon as tonight. Ugh… Where’s the foresight on this team? Why is everything so damned reactive instead of proactive?
Hey, I’m feeling a little better and I hope all of you are doing good yourselves. Have a great day.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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Nice to have you back Joe.
I think the problem is that while Davis is awful, the Mets don’t have a 1B that can field anywhere near as well as Ike and that may hurt the team more than say adding Justin Turner’s bat to the lineup will help.
That being said you have to think about the player too and confidence wise you can’t keep letting him bat .160. That has to be even worse than taking a trip down, right?
we could let Duda play 1st , and add Baxter in the outfield . Baxter , Kirk and Torres ? At least the outfield is covered very well , we have serious speed every night …
You could. I am not sure if that makes up for the difference in between Ike and Duda defensively is my problem. Especially with Torres not really hitting either. I still think IF Tejada were healthy you could move Murphy over to 1B and then continue your OF rotation. However, he isn’t and if they deem they can’t wait then your option could be viable.
Maybe they do something like Duda at 1B vs RH and Turner at 1B vs a LH or Duda at 1B vs LH and Hairston in RF?
NO NO NO!
The Last thing they should do is mess with Duda or Murphy and change their positions until such time as Ike is done with his MLB career or being a Met.
Murphy seems to be getting comfortable in his 2B position and Duda still need to get better in RF.
We should not mess with the fielding of either one of them at this point!
Put Turner or Baxter there maybe even bring up Lutz if we send Ike down. But do not interrupt all the hard work put into getting Murphy and Duda acclimated to their glove positions!
Metsie — Agreed. Let’s leave Murphy at 2B. Omar and Willie and Jerry screwed the pooch with their ridiculous movement of Murphy all over the diamond. I’m surprised they didn’t also work in a stint behind the plate. They were trying to save their own hides at any cost. Murphy is only now showing how valuable he can be.
It just makes no sense to take them away from their positions when they are just now starting to get comfortable with them and the end result will be bad glove and COULD even avffect their batting as well!
Don’t mess with them until such time as you have no choice!
If by the end of the year Ike can’t be fixed then you consider getting an OF to replace Duda and move him to first or use one of the many MIFs to replace Murphy but not until you know Ike is no longer part of your core and regular 1B
Hey, the good news is he went 1-4 yesterday and actually raised his average by 3 points. Uh… maybe that’s not good news.
trs: I’m gonna disagree with you and not call you any names (watch this)
I disagree with you. I think Ike is an automatic out right now, and the Mets have a lot of options as to what they can do. They can put Turner at 1B, they can put Duda at 1B and Hairston in the OF.
All of those options are better right now than Ike Davis. This isn’t a slump anymore. This is a Jason Bay impersonation.
Truth be told, for as upset we are at Jason Bay, at this point I’d rather have Bay in the lineup than Ike.
Oh there’s no doubt that he’s an automatic out. Waving at every breaking pitch he can find and just pure guessing.
My point is that getting him out of the lineup also gets him off the field. You have to make sure the trade off in offense makes up for the deficit in defense. However, if the Mets think this issue is going to destroy his confidence and the only way he can get better is to send him down then it really doesn’t matter who the replacement is.
See, I don’t buy that at all. It’s the lame Teixera argument, which is really just an excuse.
How many games has Ike’s defense made that big of a difference? I mean realistically, he’s a fine 1B but I’m not sitting here watching games when he strikes out and thinking “well at least he’s playing a gold glove 1B.” Because he’s not.
He’s playing a fine 1B, but not enough to accept the fact he was supposed to be our #4 hitter and he’s gotten 9 hits in 57 AB’s with runners in scoring position.
Good point. Duda’s RF defense has already cost us a handful of games. Putting him at 1B which is his real position improves the team defensively while Ike is gone or the difference would be pretty negligible.
You do have a point as far as the team is concerned that getting Duda out of RF could help balance the loss of Ike at 1B.
As for your post Jessup, I disagree. Defense is very underrated at 1B IMO, especially when you have such a young and cobbled up IF.
I’m not suggesting defense at 1B is not important. I’m suggesting based on Ike’s play at 1B, his bat hurts them more than his defense helps them.
Much more in fact.
I’ll take Justin Turner or Lucas Duda at 1B right now and Hairston or Bay in RF over Ike.
He’s brutal right now. He’s not helping this team win games. He’s hurting them.
Whats the rush here? I thought this was a rebuilding year wasn’t it?
Yes Ikes glove helps in way more ways than you might think.
It has given Wright renewed confidence in makiing throws, has turned quite a few 3-4-3 Double plays or nailed the lead runner in games where it would have been an RS instead the way the pen has been.
He covers more ground reducing the amount of ground Murphy has to cover and allows murphy to cheat more to get better position.
Yes his bat is hurting us, but it isn’t the reason we are almost in the Cellar!
It was that Good Day we had that has done that for us!
That good day has also saved 12 games, won 6 and lost 6.
How many games has Ike won for the Mets this year?
Yep 6 won (Games the pen blew it and the offense brought back or came in tied)
6 Losses meaning they gave up the winning run.
12 Saves and most of them were when they had a 3 or 4 run lead only to make them a 1 run game that all you guys use to tout how great this team is in close games that truth is shouldn’t have been all that close!
How many Ike has won? Two if I’m not mistaken.
It was that Good Day we had that has done that for us!”
ROTFLMFAMFOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey but the good news is that FFF has a 91% save ratio and is tied for 3rd in the league in saves and save percentage
LOL.
91% is a good one? Thats one blown save every 10 chances!
That means 15 blown saves in a season!
And you think that is good news?
Metsie… You’re math is off… for FFF to have 15 blown saves in a season at a 91% rate he’d have to have more than 155 chances.. LOL.. 91% is a good ratio, his 7.56 ERA and his 2.04 WHIP is the problem… plus, explain to me TRS how is 91% save ration when he has 10 saves and 2 BLOWN SAVES? last i checked his saves ratio is 83% which THEN is terrible.. also, don’t forget the 3 losses he already has… LoL…
Well Alex that’s a great question. Baseball Reference has him down for 10 saves in 11 save opportunities with 2 BS. I am sure there is something logical there but… LOL.
Your right Alex…I’m just illustrating the point that 1 blown save every 10 chances is not all that good!
And TRS your forgetting that while the save chances are 91% he has blown games (and lost) where there was no save chance because the game was tied and no SA was there.
Blown saves is only part of it, Losses are also just as much a suck as a blown save in fact maybe even more so!
Francisco has 10 saves and 2 blown saves.
1 of his losses came with Acosta giving up the winning runs and 1 came during a tie game
To put Francisco’s 83% save ratio into perspective.
In 2010 in 53 appearances, KRod had 25 saves and blew 5. A rate of… 83%
In 2011, when some feel KRod was so good he should have never been traded… he left the Mets with 23 saves, blowing 3. A Rate of 88%.
So from 2010-2011, KRod closed 85% of his chances with the Mets 48 out of 56. During that time, he made $23 million (11.5 per). And there are people here who acted like trading him away was the worst idea ever.
Then you have Frank Francisco who is closing at 83%, 2% less than KRod but he’s making $5.5million. So KRod was getting paid DOUBLE what Frank Francisco is getting paid now, yet he only closed out 2% more games.
I’m not making excuses for Francisco, I’m not happy with his performance thus far. But, the same people who come here knocking him or me for saying I liked the signing… are the same ones who praise KRod and act as though the Mets traded away a 9th inning lock in the process.
And here comes the as***** with salary and player’s from the past to make excuses for what francisco did… You and others were making a HUGE deal at the time of the trade about krod’s 1.40 WHip, how come you of all people don’t say sh** about francisco’s 2.04 WHIP?? ohh, that’s right, because it was YOU who wrote that stupid as* article about how good of a day sandy had by acquiring the 3 bums we seem to have in the bullpen, so of course i expected you to come in their defense.. You’re an idiot you knwo that? can’t you just admit for once in your short lifetime of baseball that so far YOU WERE WRONG???
Alex, you do realize that in that post you always mention… you said they should have gotten Endy Chavez instead of Andres Torres… and as unimpressive as Torres has been, guess who has been worse? Endy Chavez.
Rauch/Ramirez/Francisco are not bums. You’re acting like they came here with terrible baseball cards and we were sold on “maybe they will be good.”
Heading into this year Francisco had a 1.29 Whip, 368K/334 IP, 3.72 career ERA in the AL
From 05-11 Rauch has a 3.72 Era, 58 Saves, 377K, 460IP, 1.23 Whip
Ramirez had a 3.16 career ERA, 310K in 364IP, a 1.24 Whip
You’re calling them bums and acting like you knew they’d pitch the way they have to date.
Am I happy with their performance thus far? No. But I’m not going to sit here and call them bums and act like I knew Frank Francisco would pitch to a 2 whip.
Metsie, obviously FFF has stunk. I said the good news is he has according to BR a 91% ratio. How they come up with that is a little beyond me.
Then why would you say sandy had a good day in your article back in December? had a good day based on what? FFF have been demoted from the closer’s role twice in his career, for 2 different teams!!!! How in the hell he had a good day? So it’s not fair to criticize FFF and sandy for their performance as a GM and Closer but it is ok to praise them in an article? Again, different stage in NY, different pressure than playing in atlanta, or any of those markets were the media and fan base can care less if you suck.. . ask jason bay!
Yep gave up the winning run that was credited to Francisco otherwise he wouldn’t have gotten the loss Acosta would have!
Why was Acosta in there Jessup?
Because Francisco was doing such a great job?
Alex, I felt that trading Pagan away and getting Torres and Ramirez was excellent value for Angel Pagan. I felt that adding Rauch and Francisco based on their talents in their career was a solid move for the 2012 Mets based on what was available to them.
Just because a move doesn’t work on May 19th, doesn’t mean it was a bad move. Frank Francisco is not a 2.00 WHIP pitcher.
Talent wise, the Mets bullpen was better on the day they added Ramirez, Rauch, Francisco than the day before when they had none of them.
It’s very fair to criticize the job FFF and the rest of the BP has done. However, I also think you should follow your own advice and realize it’s early as well. Just like it appears you were wrong at this point in terms of wins, it also appears Jessup was wrong in terms of the BP. There is plenty of time for both to turn around. You can’t expect the Mets to keep winning with such a negative run diff… and you can’t expect guys with 3.~~ ERA’s or less on average to have 7+ ERA’s either.
TRS86, key word is AS OF NOW… I said as of now he’s wrong as hell about what sandy did.. Pagan was not making $5.2 million was he? that is exactly what we’re paying torres and ramirez for the 2012 season . also, we needed a closer, we got a guy who can’t keep his closer’s job.Rauch has been ok and even that would be an overstatement, then why was he signed for $3.50 million? the problem wasn’t the guys we got as much as the money spent on them, they were not worth it.. so explain to me how is that a good day? Everyone but you saw it that way
TRS – Please elaborate on why it’s too early to judge the Pen but not too early to judge Ike again?
Lets face facts it’s not early anymore a month is done, and while it is reasonable to suggest Ike should go down the question still remains will that actually help him with his problem which is he is getting crap thrown at him and he has issues getting his timing back from the long layoff!
The Pen we signed was a baindaid to hold us while we wait for the Core to be built and ascertained was it not?
SO then let Ike work out his issues and take this opportunity to see if we have some kids to take over and stop the bleeding the bandaid pen is failing to contain and see if by the end of this year we can have a team good enough to be worth investing in!
This is getting a little long here:
1st Pagan settled with the Giants for 4.85M to avoid arbitration. That would obviously imply that he wanted more than 5M. Also keep in mind that you would have still had to pay for a reliever and one with the track record of Ramirez would have cost much more than 2.65M. So if you kept Pagan and signed a guy like Ramirez you would have most likely been looking at over 10M.
Also as crappy as he is, Torres was under control at a cheaper price for more years than Pagan as Pagan would be at his 4th year and Torres his 2nd year.
Now back to your point, IN THEORY those 3 guys should have made the pen better than it was going into the season had no signings been made. However, that’s what theory does. Sometimes bullpen pitchers blow up after successful seasons, see Aaron Heilman. I was on record saying I thought the Rauch signing was overkill unless the thought process was sign both and then when Parnell was ready trade one or both. Of course if you have an 8.00 ERA instead of a 3.50 ERA it makes it more difficult to trade someone.
As we get on Sandy though, who could have anticipated that a guy who could keep his ERA under 4.00 in Texas would balloon up this badly in the NL East? This is a guy that was traded for Mike Napoli so if he could have pitched well there could have been some value there.
“That would obviously imply that he wanted more than 5M.”
No it implies he wanted at least 4.8 mil!
And would have settled with us if not for the trade!
No we wouldn’t have to pay for a reliever and no where near what we DID pay for Francisco!
You could save 6 Mil per the next two years by just making Rauch the closer and make Hefner the 7th, Parnell the 8th inning setup!
Lots of ways to not have to buy a closer or waste as much money we did considering what we got!
Man, here we are on a completely different topic and you try to go down that dead end road again. And nice shot at the Mets there who at 3 games above .500 are indeed close to the cellar as the Phillies are back to .500 leaving the NL East as the only division in baseball with all teams .500 or above. Of course they are also only 3.5 games back of 1st place and are still tied for the final wild card spot.
Sometimes I think you are like the old joke about the Soviet papers during the Cold War. If a Russian and an American were to race and the American won the papers would print American’s finish second to last in race.
It’s not a different topic at all…I guess you missed the part where Joe attributed the being in last place to Ike when the truth is the Bullpen has done more to put us there (and not in the lead of the NL East) than Ike has!
Ummmm, TRS, relax with all that playoff talk etc… The best division in baseball in terms overall is the AL EAST.the mets have been very fortunate and lucky to have won games they should’ve lost, specially with FFF as a closer (Yesterday game), they have the worst ration or Run differential for a team with a winning record (-32) which is 4th worst i nthe NL.. Let’s see july before we talk contenders or PRETENDERS ok…
‘…he mets have been very fortunate and lucky to have won games they should’ve lost, specially with FFF as a closer (Yesterday game),’
I disagree.
I believe the Mets have been unfortunate in having lost games they should have won, specifically b/c of the BP.
You have your closer coming in, in the bottom of the 9th preserving a 1 run lead. That’s what the closer should be doing. That’s what we expect him to do. According to your mindset, we should have lost that game b/c our closer was coming into that situation? Yeah, FF certainly isn’t the best closer but until removed from that role, he’s still expected to get the job done.
Of course it’s early Alex. But I also think it’s disingenuous to say the Mets are in close to last place (giving the appearance of a bad team) instead of focusing on their actual record. How many of us would not have taken 3 games over .500 at this point in the season with a heck of a record against NL East opponents?
It is early but neither the pen nor Ike have kept the Mets from being ahead of what MOST of us expected.
SRT, i respect your opinion, but let’s be honest. you and i KNOW how lucky they’ve been, again, even the sabergoons who love numbers can see the RS differencial at -32 giving them the Pythagorian WL record at 17-24… I don’t buy into that, that is why you play the game, but the reality is we’ve played some shi*** games and we’ve won it, blown saves etc, this team it’s not that good, let’s enjoy the ride etc, but if some of you are expecting playoffs etc, you’re going a bit overboard with the product we have… Teams get better througout the season and the possibility of us getting better or improving the roster at the deadline is very sling and the hard schedule is coming up… we’d most liekly be sellers come july than buyers…
The problem is SRT is that he isn’t protecting those 1 run leads most of the time. He is turning 3 run leads into 1 run wins or blowing the save and getting the Loss or Win instead.
And it’s not just the closer’s fault here, there are a few games where there would not BE a Save opportunity that turned into one because the Pen gave up a big enough lead that should not have been a save only to turn it into one.
Alex, you’ll get no argument from me about this BP. In a nutshell for the most part, it’s been crap all month. They’ve blown games we should have won – not been lucky and won games they should have lost – is all I’m saying. Well, at least in my opinion.
If that BP was better, we’d probably have at least 4 more wins, if not more.
Can’t answer for anyone else, but I had low expectations going into this season. I was just hoping they finished at .500.
SRT, again, so did i, i had them pegged to win 69 games based on roster. I did however expected ike and duda to have good season, but i knew the bullpen or SP wasn’t gonna be as good therefore teams were gonna have a field day with our pitching staff.. Surprisingly we have hanged tough so far and exceeded expecteations imo, question is, can we keep it up? and if we do, is this front office willing to help the team out instead of sabotaging it like it did in 2 consecutives offseason?
Well, I didn’t have them quite as low as 69 W
All good questions that I guess we’re going to find out by mid July. All depends of course on our record then, as compared to the rest of the NL east. Right now as you see, all teams are just about on top of each other, give or take 5 games. Let’s see who might be pulling away from the pack by July, if anyone.
What I don’t expect them to do is sit pack with this BP blowing games at this rate. They’ve already made some minor changes and I’ll expect in house shuffling to go on as needed. Whether they do something outside of the organization, remains to be seen.
Truthfully, I’m hoping that with all the injuries to closers/relievers, come July we’ll be able to trade FF to some contending team that’s looking for BP help.
Metsie, one more point on the saves. You mentioned that all the saves were blow out type saves and he wasn’t getting the other ones done.
That’s not really true, these are the scores when FFF went in and got the save. (notice these are NOT the end score as he did give up some runs in some of these).
Save 1, 1-0
Save 2, 4-2
Save 3, 7-5
Save 4, 2-1
Save 5, 7-4
Save 6, 4-3
Save 7, 3-1
Save 8, 5-2
Save 9, 3-0
Save 10, 6-5
So (3) 3 run leads, (3) 2 run leads, (4) 1 run leads.
BS 1 5-4, ended up getting the win.
BS 2 5-4, got the loss.
Wanted to add that I don’t agree with the mindset that the FO sabotaged this team mid season last year. I’m in the camp of thinking there was virtually no shot in hell we were making post season.
I loved the KRod trade and thought we were lucky there was at least one GM out there willing to take him on knowing they had to limit his 9th inning outings so that option didn’t vest.
As much as I loved Beltran, with finances where they were last season and end of season, there was no way Mets were offering him a contract. I also believe even if they had, there was no way Beltran would even consider staying with the Mets. Therefore, I was fine with that mid season trade, especially since we got San Fran’s top pitching prospect.
Well TRS I would note that your facts are what they are due to ommission….
What was the final score in those games where he got the save and what was the score when he came in and got wins plus the score where he came in and got the losses?
You see focusing on Saves alone would be fine if he was just blowing Saves.
But he has had much more impact than just what he has done in save opportunities!
At least one of his Wins are due to the fact he gave up a lead we got back for him…
at least of his losses are where he had a lead and gave it up.
And I think there are three cases where he got a save after turning a 3 run lead into a one run ballgame!
Well SRT all I can say is your about two series sweeps away from the same position you were in last July whan you thought it was fine to fold up the tent.
Since I have so lost the sequence of some of these threads, this is in response to Metsie’s:
Well SRT all I can say is your about two series sweeps away from the same position you were in last July whan you thought it was fine to fold up the tent.
(just in case my response ends up who knows where….)
I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying here.
Right now we’re headed to the 4 week of May. Last year when we made those trades it was mid/late July. Two months further into the season. It’s like comparing apples and oranges.
About 10 days before Sandy made those moves he was quoted when asked about being sellers at the deadline – something along the lines of it would be another 10 days or so before he made that determination.
Now….he could have already had those trades in the works – we’ll never know. Just reporting what I remembered hearing from last year.
As I said, we’ll just have to wait until about mid July to see what this FO does, if anything, at the trade deadline.
Well SRT thats kind of why last year I brought up how the cards were 10 Games back in August/Sept yet they weren’t out of it!
We had an extra month compared to them too!
Not saying we are going to be out of it or that we will do the same thing again just pointing out that we are only about 6-7 games away from where were were that July where people gave up halfway through the season.
If the 69 Mets took that stance there would be no miracles!
Ike has given David Wright more confidence to make successful throws? This is a minor issue in Wright’s defensive rejuvenation. Tim Teufel is the real reason for Wright’s improvement. Teufel worked on Wright’s footwork and body positioning.
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120510&content_id=30903392&vkey=news_nym&c_id=nym
http://dicomo.mlblogs.com/2012/05/10/how-has-wright-improved-on-defense/
no one ever said it was a rebuilding year (no one that counts of course, as in the FO, not the core). It is another year that will be evaluated as it goes.
and right now, the team is certainly competitive, and in fact if the season ended today they would be in the playoffs. So it is certainly disingenuous to say it is a throw-away rebuilding year.
and not quite sure what a few BP guys having a rough stretch has to do with a 1B that is killing the team, unless you want to turn Ike back into a pitcher?
Oh please Any go look at any discussion from July to March on MMO…
It was used daily as an excuse to not signing anyone good, Selling off and letting Allstars go and for focusing on the Minors for something 3-4 years from now!
Metsie, now that the team has won a few games all of the sudden it’s NOT A REBUILDING year, yet, when someone mention how badly of a job the GM has done people then rush to the “he had no money etc excuses”… Which one is it? this team had ZERO expectations to compete this year, even the owners admitted this by doing the ridiculous UNDERDOG campaign after they got saved with the judge on the bernie case..
Please… this people changed their mind every day just to defend the pathetic job the front office has done
“Please… this people changed their mind every day”… isn’t that kind of what you do with your definition of clutch?
Hey TRS who is bringing old overly hashed subject matter into it now?
guess your not bored of everything that has been argued to death when your on the right side of it now aren’t you?
Only tired of the subjects that you were on the wrong side of? How Fair of you! LOL
Yes Alex there is a lot of CoPing going on around here…
They tried to make the fast start as an I told you so moment forgetting it supported the opposite position from theirs in the offseason.
Doesn’t matter because anyone can go into the past and find out what was really said!
They were so adamant about writing articles to support those positions they are pretty easy to find. The commentary is a little harder to search but it’s all there for the world to see.
Fair point but mine would be more relevant to the discussion at hand as all of us, including you as proven by your previous quotes, are not only wrong often but change our minds often. It’s a product of being on here. The only ones not proven wrong are the ones not posting.
I said anyone that counted. What the posters on MMO guessed doesn’t count.
The FO never said that it was a rebuilding year, which you are interpreting as a complete punt, won’t try to win, etc. And it isn’t. Of course it is a transition period as they are retooling, but that is not the same as not trying to complete as best you can, without of course going all in on 2012 with no regard to the future.
the underdog thing? Psychological silliness to take pressure off (us against the world).
Is Sandy’s primary focus on rebuilding the foundation of the organization to support a sustained run of success for years to come? Sure, he pretty much said that. Does it mean he won’t try to win this season if the team can support it, and it won’t conflict with the primary goal? Of course not.
I’m sure you aren’t aware, but Sandy went to an Ivy League college! Harvard! a good one! So just maybe he is smart enough to know that this team making a playoff push will actually help the future (more fans, more revenue).
The FO never said that it was a rebuilding year”
The offseason sandy had said it for them…. And of course, most of you backed him up for it.. If not go back to that stupid as* article about sandy having a good day
MY previous quotes were based on the situation at the time they were made and if changed were due to events that occurred between then and now!
I supported Sandy until he went on this NEEDED REBUILD tact that so has been proven WRONG as we were in competition until his baindaids put us out of it!
Tell me what else you think you got me on in wrong?
Would LOVE to hear it!
Sorry Any but most of the discussions here are in regards to arguments between other commentary here.
And Sandy is fully on record as saying he was building for the future stability of the frqanchise and that this team was not ready to go for winning anything when it came up this year that he had money to spend at the deadline last year if he thought they had a chance he decided they did not!
Hey Joe ,
i hope Ike read your post . I think we all love Big Ike , but as you mentioned, at some point you hurting the team A LOT . We can fill his position with some bat power , and he can get his mojo back in Buffalo , i really hope he didnt get smashed in Triple A too, honestly i am scared of it. GO IKE and LETS GO METS
Angelo, how might we fill his position with some power bat? We don’t have another unless you mean Uncle Vinny?
He’d be back to help the team already?
The Minors isn’t some magical salve where everything is magically made better. There are three major outcomes: Either he struggles down there too, he destroys it and is back and struggles still here, or he goes down and feasts on crappier pitches and uses that as a springboard for the better pitches of the majors and does well again.
If the Mets were positive that third outcome was probable, or even most likely, they surely would’ve sent him down already. But it’s not that clear cut. What’s also not clear cut is that losing Davis for 10 days (at least) is not more detrimental to the team than the added time it would take him to figure it out in the majors.
There is no one to replace him really, without some crazy shifting of positions that might not be wise. Maybe when Tejada comes back you can spot in Murphy there with Turner/Cedeno at second, but playing Val Pascucci or both Turner AND Cedeno is probably not better than Davis’ plus defense and the chance he’ll break out.
There is no obvious solution and magical salve.
It would help if there was another 1B laying around that could be a logical swap in, so you wouldn’t have to move lots of other parts around. None of the bench guys qualifies, and while Duda cold shift over, he is still a step down defensively (plus do you want to mess with this comfort level in the OF?)
so, unless there is a good choice to call up from AAA, like you said, the options are not clear cut. Plus, if you call up another prospect, are you ready for a competition for the job? Not an issue of course if you call up big Val.
I do, however, agree with Joe that the move needs to be made. Ceets is focused on Ike, but really, at this point the focus has to be on keeping the Mets afloat, and winning more games, If that means Ike has to try and get his Shat together in Buffalo, so be it.
the other reason to go down is that it is not just (it seems) a matter of getting his timing down (that just takes ABs), or even mental approach. He, by all accounts, needs some mechanical work, and doing that is much more suited to the minors.
I was on the “give him 6 weeks” bandwagon early on, but guess what? 6 weeks have come and gone.
Mets are still holding onto a (phantom) playoff spot right now. And team first.
Hey big bad Val does have 11 HR in AAA… I think he last played defense in 1983 though.
Just curious why you say there’s nobody to replace him at first base? The Mets have at least three other natural first basemen on the roster. Why couldn’t we move Duda to first which is what he really is? It gives us the opportunity to play Baxter a little more, or dont we have Bay coming back soon? Also Valdespin can comeback and actually get some at-bats. I heard he homered last night for Buffalo..
I think the problem is that both Murphy and Duda are learning new positions and moving them to 1B will not help them learn that new position. So the question remains is Duda going to be a future OF for the Mets or 1B. Same for Murphy. I think you could move them there for a couple of weeks and not cause too much damage to their development but over that and they may need to rethink the situation.
Rather not move Duda, because he definitely needs the reps in the OF, because the theory still is him in RF and Davis at 1B for the long term. Valdespin hasn’t proven he’s even major league capable yet, so I’d rather keep him out entirely. You could move Murphy there, but then you’re playing both Turner AND Cedeno and I think it’s wiser to wait for Tejada so you can platoon those two more than play both. Obviously if the Mets were sure sending Davis down would very obviously fix his problem, they’d already have done it.
Nieuwenhuis also isn’t hitting lefties yet in the small sample, so I’m not sure Bay’s (still not immediately eminent) return is a big deal. 4 guys for 3 spots with Nieuwenhuis and Torres being versatile is not a problem, plus you have 6 DH games in mid-June.
Just being a devil’s advocate here… what if Duda is the 1B of the future and not Ike?
Look, I want Ike to be successful but I want the 2012 Mets to be successful first. I agree Murph needs to stay put. But Duda playing 1B isn’t the worst thing in the world. If anything it may spark something inside Ike to realize he does not have a guaranteed job.
In an ideal situation its Turner at 1B, but when Bay returns you gotta put him in the lineup if Ike is down (at least in his first few days back) and that means Duda at 1B most likely.
It’s possible but man is that a defensive downgrade. Duda looked like Frankenstein at 1B.
When you get to the point that Ike is no longer part of your plans THEN you move Duda not before!
The old phrase: “Don’t let one bad apple ruin the entire cart should apply”
If Ike has a future then Duda’s only position is the OF. He is on that fine line of being an asset or a liability there at this point in his OF development. Same with Murphy at 2B!
Don’t mess with them until you are sure Ike is not going to be playing 1B in the future!
if Duda was hitting like he did last year, then maybe, but he’s not there yet either. He’s not doing badly for sure, but I’d rather not play games with moving guys around temporarily like that.
Oh there is plenty of AB’s for Bay vs LHP for sure. Duda, Kirk, Baxter, …
The real issue is once Bay returns there may not be a spot for Hairston. If Hairston could play 1B it would make things much easier. I guess he can play RF for Duda at 1B.
will hairston even be on the team then? Still not clear to me how the roster is going to shake out when Bay come back (Tejada too).
BU C will be 1 spot. Baxter has to stay, right? And they will want to keep Cedeno I have to think.
so that leaves 2 spots, and a 2nd guy that can play MI seems like a smart idea, so Turner.
that then leaves 1 spot for Kirk and Hairston to fight over, assuming Rottino (he is getting called up today, right?) and Johnson (if not Nickeas) are already gone.
So bay/Baxter platoon, with Torres and Duda? Though Torres is looking real bad now, so I could support Kirk out there, but then you lose Hairston.
if nothing else, will be interesting. And also why Ike may go down when they all come back.
Well Joe I can’t say it is unjustified to send him down…I just don’t think it is going to help him with his problem which I attribute to:
He has missed almost an entire year of facing MLB pitchers. As I have pointed out before, It took a far more experienced and accomplished hitter (Beltran) Two months to get his swing back after missing that much time.
Beltran on his Return in 2010
July 15G 64 PA 11 H 1 HR .204BA .313OBP
Aug 28G 106PA 20H 1HR .227BA .340OBP
Sept 21G 85PA 25H 5HR .321BA .365OBP
Now in Ike’s case he has declined from april to may so maybe my theory is dead wrong but there are only two reasons to send a player down, Lack of Confidence where you send him down to get some by facing lesser pitching or because he is hurting the team so much you just have to get rid of him to make a roster spot.
I don’t see Ike’s problem as a confidence issue and I’m not sure we have a tight enough roster to make getting the spot back an imperative. When Tejada and Bay comes back that may be the case but not yet. (and in Bay’s case your just trading a bad hitting 1B for a bad hitting LF)
I say give him another two weeks with some intense attention from Hudgens to start hitting MLB pitching. If he doesn’t show signs of coming out of it by then fine.
But I don’t see how going down to face MiL pitching is going to change much as he is likely to go right back to slumping against the MLB pitchers when he gets back.
Perhaps swapping him with Wright in the lineup would be a better move right now. It’s hard to say…
But if I’m correct about his missed time being part of the problem we are very near the point where that will be proven or not. Until we get to the point where we need to make room for Tejada I think we should give Ike the chance to fix it where it’s broke as opposed to sending him down to face easier pitching only to have him fail on his return.
And while Ike is a reason we haven’t scored as many runs as people think we should, our place in the division has less to do with Ike than it does with this awful bullpen who have blown leads and put games we could come back in out of reach.
One thing I hope does NOT happen is if they do send Ike down that they do not replace him with Murphy or Duda! Keep them where they are and let them continue learning that position.
It’s almost time to send Ike down but I think two more weeks really won’t kill us!
I am not sure that confidence isn’t an issue. You would have to be a pretty tough kid to handle high expectations and then 2 months of .160 hitting. Obviously much of his problem is guessing, pitch recognition and swinging away at pitches out of the strike zone and guessing wrong on the ones in. Pitchers know they have no need to throw him a strike early in the count because he is going to swing anyway. He and Duda both are seeing almost all breaking pitches and until they start laying off of the breaking balls out of the zone they are in going to keep getting out. Duda seems to be getting out of that.
Also in sending him down, maybe it’s just a chance to relax and get back to working on that pitch selection as well. In AAA you don’t just see FB pitchers, you see a lot of junk ball 6th starter type pitchers as well which is giving him as much trouble as the flame throwers.
it is GETTING there TRS, but the last two months were not due to lack of confidence…
In another two weeks YES it will start to be a confidence issue.
But I don’t think Ike doubts himself yet.
Hudgens need to break out the film, show Ike the difference between this time last year and now, Have Ike make corrections (mechanically) and then move Ike in front of Wright to see more fastballs.
That will do far more to fixing Ike than to face mediocre pitching in the MiLs
“Hudgens need to break out the film, show Ike the difference between this time last year and now”
How do you know he hasn’t?
BTW this time last year Ike was on the DL. That’d be a boring tape. Ike’s last game was May 10 and by the way he was 7 for 34 in May 2011.
So was that rust also?
How do you know he has?
Thats the problem with supposition isn’t it? It goes both ways!
If he HAS then he has yet to get Ike to go back to his old ways hasn’t he?
And as they say If at first you don’t succeed, try try again!
ha yes I am going to assume that Dave Hudgens who has been in pro baseball for over 30 years has the mental capacity to realize the guy they penciled in at #4 in the order is hitting .160 and maybe they should go over things with him and that ideas on how to fix a hitter like Ike do not come from Metsie from MMO. If they did, Metsie from MMO would be a hitting coach.
Silly me I guess.
You are right that while we are not privy to details there are somethings that you can assume as a lock. ALL pro teams spend countless hours studying video and even do it in between AB. So to suggest that practice is not being done with Ike would be ridiculous. I guess we could also assume he has malaria but wouldn’t that also be foolish?
trs: We are about 20 minutes away from somebody blaming Sandy Alderson for this. So far we have Rauch/Ramirez/Francisco being part of the conversation… now possibly Hudgens being the reason.
Wait for it, Sandy’s next.
You are so hoping it does go there so you can go onto you See they are just crazy script instead of facing the facts of WHY we are where we are!
Mostly because of that pen we fixed for the second year in a row that hasn’t been fixed!
And you instead want to blame it all on Ike not the hitting coach who messed with his swing in ST to mess him up in the first place!
Oh boy trs! It’s like Ghostbusters 2 with the slim that responds to negative energy. This is building up, and soon it will be Sandy Alderson’s fault. They are literally on the edge of saying it. It’s practically on the tip of their tongue!
Or maybe it’s more like Ghostbusters one….
Don’t Cross the Streams it would be bad…
45 Minutes later….Cross the Streams!
Yep because even if your GUESS is true it hasn’t worked has it?
If some MiL guy is going to fix Wright better than Hudgens then lets get him up here and send Hudgens down why don’t we?
Metsie, from listening to Keith and Ron I think it’s obvious that Hudgens and others are working their butt off on Ike but he is also known to be very stubborn. Keith even alluded to at some point it’s on Ike to be willing to listen.
Right which is why I said get him in the Video room and let him see what the difference between good ABs and his current ABs are and let him tell himself what he refuses to hear from others!
Sometimes the best way to get a point accross is to have the kid think he figured it out himself!
Again, I am 100% sure they have brought him in the video room Metsie. That is the most ridiculous suggestion I have heard from you. Seriously? An MLB team not using film? Are you out of your mind? High School teams use film.
Agreed. Heck, Keith has put film up – twice – during games, comparing his stance and swing this year with his past 2 years.
Well then the coach has faioled to correct it hasn’t he and that makes him as much to blame as Ike doesn’t it?
As a coach myself, ultimately maybe. Yet if a player is unwilling to listen then while it still falls on the coach it is perhaps unfairly so.
LOL How has that tact worked out for the UFT TRS….
My class failed but it’s not my fault it’s because my class is made up of dummies!
The only thing Hudgens has in his favor at this point in time is the fact the rest of the team is hitting (even Duda is coming out of it)
Part of Ike’s problems had as much to do with Duda not hitting as Ike himself. No reason to throw strikes to Ike if Duda is not hitting enough to drive him in.
I’m not saying Hudgens should get fired all I’m saying is he needs to find the problem and get it through to Ike. Whatever he has done to date isn’t enougyh which is why I say even if you looked at film already like your 100% sure of (How pray tell? 99% at best) he has to keep hitting the film until Ike gets it!
TRS86, you should’ve stated “As a coach myself with only 1 playoff appearance”
LMAO
Alex, fair point but it’s 2 play off appearances in 2 seasons buddy. I have only coached the team 2 seasons LOL. Would be difficult for me to have more in less seasons right? I have coached for 16 years but only at this school 2 times. In fact I have yet to be a coach for a team that didn’t make the playoffs but that’s neither here nor there. I don’t count on my winning in HS as part of my experience but the 1000+ games plus that I have coached in.
2 Playoffs appearance in 16 years??? If so my friend, that is terrible… No no.. Awful….
No, he coached his current team for 2 years. Read it again.
Man, you can’t read. LOL.
“In fact I have yet to be a coach for a team that didn’t make the playoffs…”
That being said, it’s not that difficult to make the playoffs in some conferences. Last year we went 15-11 and could have went 2-20 and still made the playoffs. A better look would be at losing seasons, I have had 3 of those in 16 years.
So…. Nice, Championships? How many??
None in HS so far. It’s damn hard to do. I was an assistant for one that made it to the semifinals but that’s about it, lost in triple OT. You have to win 6 games in a row to win the state championship.
”
I did coach middle school for a few years and won 3 championships and went undefeated a few times but that’s more about talent than coaching. I have won a ton of AAU championships and a couple of national championships in those leagues as well. Again, that’s not really the important part as the winning in this discussion is meaningless. I think it’s more about the 1,000 games and 16 years that gives me a right to say “as a coach
I have also coached baseball and football. I bet Bay would have loved to see me coaching baseball!
Got you… Good luck, every coach is measure by wins and losses, Championships etc..
Thanks, In HS that is not always the case. It’s a lot more about talent. I know some coaches that are in my views the god of coaching but they can’t win a championship due to the odds stacked against them. I have also seen coaches win championships that couldn’t tell you the difference in a man to man and a zone. It didn’t matter because they didn’t call plays anyway… LOL.
Glad to hear you’re feeling better, Joe.
‘Collins says “there’s nothing etched in stone”, but even he can’t be foolish enough not to see how Ike Davis is hurting the team’
You may be right, but Collins isn’t going to tell the media – first – that might be the way they are leaning. If and when they do make that decision, it’ll be after discussions with the FO and after Ike has been informed.
I don’t have the answer. I was so hoping that Ike would start coming out of it but he clearly is not looking even close. I’m not sure AAA is the answer either, but as I don’t even know what his problem is, who’s to say?
Putting aside the fact that he’s killing the line-up with his almost automatic outs, they have to take into consideration his mental state right now. If he’s looking completely defeated, sending him down might be better. Maybe the opportunity to work on it without worry about letting the team down might help.
Sure do hate to lose his defense at first though….
I’ve written over the past couple of years a number of posts which address Ike’s complicated swing. He is a major talent but his swing sucks. It has hitches, too much movement of his right foot, and too much lunging.
Ike just needs to do what he did in 2010: simplify his swing. Many foolish writers and fans have drooled over Ike’s power. If he were playing in a Slo-Pitch Software game, his swing is O.K. It’s not at the major league baseball level. It involves too many moving parts and requires that Ike guess on the pitch. Whether he hits a ball 500 feet or 410 feet when the fence is 400 feet away is irrelevant. A homer is a homer.
Ike just needs to slow everything down, simplify his approach, and he’ll be fine. It can be done at Citi, in Buffalo, or even in Bingo. It is just a detail. Good luck, Ike.
Ike has made a bit better contact recently but his overriding problem remains.
Well I would not go so far to say his swing SUCKS….Hard to argue with the past results from that swing!
In fact there is a distinct possibility that Hudgens messed with Ike’s swing in ST which could be part of the problem here.
Ike started with his hands lower in an attempt to reduce the distance of the hand drop and quiet down the extraneous motion in his swing.
Last year Hudgens had his work cut out for him trying to learn all the batters and did not mess with any of them between the start of the season and the time Ike got hurt. And there was no reason to Ike was on fire!
Sometimes you have to realize if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
And hudgens may bear some responsibility for trying to fix his swing.
But if the broken swing works for him there is no reason to change it.
Which is why I say get Ike in the video room show him a split screen of last year when he was hot compared to this year and see what is different.
As bad as it looks was as good as it worked!
let him go back to what worked!
Actually Hudgens worked with Ike last year and got Ike to cut down on that long take back and shortened his swing. Keith broke it down during games many times. The early results were very good. But of course Metsie just makes stuff up without any knowledge of what actually takes place. When will you stop with this nonsense?
How many batters have had funky swings? it’s not a small number. Everyone’s swing looks bad when they’re struggling. It’s not always easy, or smart, to make athletes do something in a way that’s so different than they’ve done for years. It’s touchy-feely for sure, but often times the bad swing is a symptom of the problem and not the problem itself.
His swing wasn’t pretty but it did work!
Metsie — His swing worked when he simplified it. Until then his performance was typically not up to his ability. When Ike stopped huffing and puffing with his swing, he got much better.
Des what exactly is a slow pitch software swing? I’m assuming you mean softball.
Fonzie13 — Exactly. Sorry I didn’t use the word softball instead of software, which is what I’ve worked on for decades
In Slo-Pitch Softball, batters can load up on a pitch with big backswings and hitches, knowing they will have time to unload on the ball. To me, when Ike first came up, I was astounded that he did it too. Where the hell were the coaches and managers that didn’t correct him? In big time baseball, a batter has typically about .3 to .5 of a second to determine the type and initial location of pitch. Ike has to guess because he’s sacrificing simplicity for increased dynamics. The dynamics take time and lead to mistakes. He’s so big and strong, it’s a bad tradeoff. As I said earlier, 500 feet homers are exciting but 400 footers also do the job.
Well, good thing that just like the pirates and royals, our expectations are to be a last place team and anything over that is an accomplishment. if not Ike shouldn’t be here, this is what can happen to highly touted prospects, they struggle, and if the team is putting all their baskets on the prospects it set them back, just as a FA do moneywise to a team.. Then what do you do? who do you replace ike davis with? his bat is nowhere to be found but his defense has helped the team overall defensively which leads to less unearned runs or rallies by the opposition. I think he’ll be fine but this is just a taste for the people who keep dreaming of the wheelers and nimmos out there, that they can struggle the same way a FA do and it sets the team back REGARDLESS
Keep in mind the Marlins just now sent Gaby down. It took them two months to send him down and they were supposed to win the WS. It’s not that easy of a decision sometimes and there is more that goes into the decision I am sure than any of us know.
TRS86,the whole team is struggling offensively, they have good enough pitching to have kept them in contention, that team have not hit as it was expected, yet they still are 22-19 (won 14 out of last 19) and have the 3rd best ERA in the Majors… Gaby sanchez was an aLL star last year but it’s not hitting and his defense has always been shaky at best, ike’s defense help the mest pitching staff which is not as good as the marlins..
Also, since omar caught a lot of heat from the sabergooners and sandy’s butt kissers for not having all star bench player f someone got hurt etc, who do you replace ike with??? at least the marlins got greg dobbs and morrison that can cover 1B, but who do sandy have?
did you really just imply that Dobbs is an all-start bench guy? Or much of any good at all?
The mets do have LM caliber guys on the team to replace him with. They just happen to be playing 2B and RF, and they may not want to move more guys around positionally right now.
so if Bay comes back, you could say he is the replacement. Or Kirk/Baxter, whichever one gets to play instead.
I guess if you are going with Greg Dobbs (.271 .313 .356 .668) it does make it more justifiable. Hey don’t we have 5 1B on the roster anyway
Again, who does sandy alderson have to replace ike davis? don’t deviate from the question… Gregg dobbs and morrison can hold the forth in case gaby doesn’t come back or come back.. Meanwhile, who do the mets replace ike with… Remember, this team needs defense more than the marlins to win games, the marlins have a much better pitching staff,.
Duda, Murphy, Thole, Turner and Cedeno. There. LOL. Again we have the luxury of MANY 1B remember?
Dobbs is a journeyman 3B who can fill in at 1B. The Mets actually have a few of those. And LoMo is a…gasp…Marlins prospect who got promoted.
Who is our guy in Buffalo like LoMo? The guy who should have been in our system a few years.
Actual depth is not some journey man who gathers splinter most of his time here. That is a role player. A fill in who can spell the regulars when they are getting a day off or a little banged up. True depth is a farm system that you can use to find a guy who can actually start at a position for an extended epriod, maybe even take it over, if your regular guy is hurt or not performing.
To do that right takes a lot more than 2 years. The fact that we are so shallow at the upper levels of our farms is not an indictment of the current FO.
The funny part is, we have 3 other 1B on our 25 man roster, yet they are locked into other positions because we weren’t producing guys there. To move them now risks screwing them up and stifling whatever progress they have made at their new positions.
I would have to agree that at this point, the Mets should send Ike Davis to Buffalo. He is so lost at the plate right now that he needs a few days off just to sit, watch some film of his swing and then hopefully get healthy on some AAA pitching.
There are options in so far as first base goes and the one I like best is to let Justin Turner play first against left handed pitching. Lucas Duda needs to stay in right field where he is getting better all the time. I would like to see both Kirk and Andres continue to play until Jason Bay is ready and then start Jason only against left handers. The emergence of Mike Baxter has been a very pleasant surprise and he will need some playing time too and isn’t it nice to have some depth for a change.
It would be great to see Ike back and once again be the threat that he is capable of being to join the present group with all member clicking at once.
The future of this team is coming forward quite a bit…..isn’t it?
there is a difference between Ike and Beltran from when he came back from the layoff. Beltran really just seemed rusty (timing issues?) that he needed reps to get over. Ike though, has many people discussing that he has mechanical issues that need to get fixed also (and I could swear that he made some simplifications at the beginning of last year that obviously worked, but he has gotten away from now).
and getting the mechanics back to what they need to be (ike getting dialed in) is what can really be worked on in the minors without hurting the team any more.
At this point, it might be having Bay still out that has kept him from going down. Looking at the roster options for when Bay comes back, sending Ike down at that point makes a lot of sense (though that is going to still be weeks from now, and they may not be able to wait that long).
Lind went down, Gabby went down, Ike can go down. MLB really is a results based business. You don’t get forever sucking and keeping your job. Especially when you do have options and don’t have a large LT guaranteed deal!
But Any those mechanical issues are all about his timing, he is out in front of pitches, flying open too quick. Thats a timing thing not a mechanical problem. The timing is leading to bad mechanics because he is trying to adjust in the swing not before it.
He needs to sit back more and let the ball get deeper and not commit too early which is all about timing not mechanics!
Metsie — Ike’s double hitch — vertical and horizontal — made him guess and rush. Also, there was his attempt to stride too early with his front leg that got him in trouble. (When Carlos Delgado got into batting slumps, he often did the same.) The early striding was done to help him keep all his moving parts in sync.
As I’ve said, Ike will get out of this problem by slowing down, simplifying, and keeping his lower half in harmony with his upper half Ike has enough power to fuel all of Queens. He doesn’t need more than just enough to get the ball out over the fence. He doesn’t have to hit 500 feet homers.
Yes but it’s not the mechanics that are causing his earlyness if anything all that extra nonsense is causing him to be later than a quiet one would.
I agree totally that quieting his swing is a good thing to do I’m just not sure that changing his mechanics is the way to go until he gets his timing down.
I believe the timing issues are more related to not seeing MLB pitching than mechanics.
He has enough to think about right now.
Is he committing to swing too early? Yes but that also has to do with the pitches he is seeing all being breaking balls. If they were fastballs he would be right on time wouldn’t he?
The lack of time, Duda not hitting behind him (though changing now) and the initial tweaking of a swing before he had his timing back is the main cause of most of Ike’s problems
And while the mechanics could be better it won’t matter if they are if he has no timing going for him.
And I don’t see how the MiLs are going to help in that regard.
Only thing that will happen there is he will get more fastballs and show results only to have the same issue when he gets back and all they throw at him is slop!
Metsie — You make an interesting proposition about Ike. You want him to get his timing then work on the mechanics of his swing. It doesn’t work that way. The mechanics affect the timing much more than the other way around. It sort of like making sure we get the cart and the horse in the right order. LOL.
Saying Ike has no timing is just not the case. He’s guessing because of poor mechanics. Pitchers know this and keep feeding him breaking balls, with the good pitchers varying the speed of them. If they threw him an occasional fastball, he’d have trouble with that too. He’s totally out of sync because he went back to earlier mechanics.
When he simplifies his stance and mechanics, he’ll be back.
and making those simplifications/adjustments are exactly the things he should be doing in the minors, not dragging down the Mets.
once he gets the mechanics set and relearns timing in AAA, then he can come back up to finish the fine tuning at the ML level.
I like Ike. I have him on my fantasy team. Mets NEVER do well on my fantasy teams. What to do, What to do?
What to do? Simple stop drafting Mets so we can have a shot at the Playoffs dude! Take one for the team! LOL
Of course I’m just kidding here!
I know what you mean. I try not to do that cause it always seems to be the case. I also have Duda.
LOL I can safely say the problem isn’t who you draft it’s who the METS draft and sign! LOL
Hey, I drafted Reyes with my second pick thinking that now he isn’t a Met… cost me a lot of wins already. Well that and the rest of my crappy roster
I wouldn’t of sent Ike down as Joe D suggested a month ago. There is nothing about Ike’s past to suggest anyone knew in the 1st few weeks of April that he would be hitting a buck sixty on May 21st.
Enough time has passed where now this is more than just an early season slump. When the talk of sending Ike down 1st began I was opposed. Expressing that they should wait to consider it till mid June early July but I never envisioned Ike to be struggling this badly as well.
Ike at this rate if he can’t get right vs the Pirates may even be down in AAA before the end of the week. Once he does my hope is that he can right himself and get back up as soon as possible.
“TRS – Please elaborate on why it’s too early to judge the Pen but not too early to judge Ike again?”
Metsie, if we could send FFF down I am sure we might be thinking about that too. Thing is he hasn’t hurt them as much as Ike. He’s been ugly as hell but how many games has he actually lost for us compared to how many he has “won” for us. If you give him blame for a loss/bs then you have to give him credit for the w/save. You could say the pen in general but you are talking about replacing 7 guys not just one guy.
I am sure the Mets will be making more moves in terms of the pen. Acosta is on his last leg for sure and may have already lost it and didn’t know it. Batista is injured, Hefner is up, Schwiny is up and I am sure others on the way.
Oh please how many Games has Ike blown for us pray tell….Quantify it?
Sure there are no options to send FF down, but there is always the get someone else avenue isn’t there?
and I’ll say it again, what is a MiL hitting coach going to do that Hudgens can’t and if he can do that why isn’t he here and not hudgens?
Well considering that Ike leads the team in PA with RISP and is hitting .164 in that situation I would say that’s pretty damn costly.
As to your point on Hudgens, couldn’t the same be said for Gaby Hernandez, Adam Lind and the Braves pitching coach for Jar Jar Binks?
What good would sending him down do? IF they do then it will be because they think he can’t get better until his confidence returns. It might not have started as confidence, we don’t know, but we do know now that there is a good chance it could be affecting him now.
I’m sure it could be said about them but then again I don’t follow what goes on with them other than how many games ahead or behind they are from us since I’m a met fan not a brave fan…
As for Ike hitting with RISP then put him lower in the order where people are less likely to walk Nickeas just to get to Ike!
Or before Wright where they will be more concerned with not letting Wright come up with RISP and walk Ike and maybe throw him a few good hittable strikes!
I am placing this down here as well.
Ramon Ramirez’s 4.30 ERA is starting to be misleading. Since his awful start he has a 2.79 ERA in May with a .225 .319 .350 .669 slash line since the debacle in Colorado.
Between Ramirez and Acosta, how many inherited runners have they allowed to score?
Sometimes that stat line doesn’t tell the whole story. I think Acosta has been particularly ugly in that regards, but that’s just from watching – I haven’t actually checked those stats.
Acosta has just been plain horrible regardless….
Ramirez, not very good over all. I would have to look back to see how much of that was early. He has inherited 11 runners and allowed 5 to score. How many of those were in one game or on one hit… I have no idea.
Oh please it’s not misleading it’s just not as bad as it was lately…
he has a 2.79 ERA this month but how mmuch of that has to do with the fact he isn’t getting put into situations where he could give up runs?
Couldn’t he give up runs regardless of the situation?
But as to your point I THINK,
In May he has came in
6th inning, down 2
9th inning, down 1
7th inning, ahead 1
7th inning, down 1
7th inning, ahead 2
7th inning, down 8
6th inning, down 9
I wouldn’t say most of those are low pressure situations. He is here to be the 7th inning guy and it looks like for the most part that’s what he has been.
Sure he could but then again he hasn’t been allowed to pitch in games that featured a blowable lead recently either!
Note the last two games he played in, down 8 and down 9!
He has been put into Mop Up role which is where the batters on the other side have such a huge lead they relax!
How many runs down were we after some of those games he came in before that?
What was the score when he left in the two starts where we were ahead?
Like I said tellinjg only part of the story (Stat Manipulation) can make even Oliver Perez look good if you know how to manipulate the numbers properly!
I do not check stats per say, but it seems that Acosta has been horrible when there is preasure on him.
You ended the sentence too late… LOL.
“I do not check stats per say, but it seems that Acosta has been horrible”
The real issue is back to what I said last week. The plague of middle relief. Acosta has already pitched in 17 games and has 19.2 innings. This for a guy with an ERA over 10.00. Parnell has pitched in 20 games for 19 innings with a 2.84 ERA.