26
2012
Free Falling…
An article by 
The largest one-year payroll slashing in Major League Baseball history might not belong to the then-Florida Marlins, whose offseason fire sale six years ago landed Carlos Delgado and Paul Lo Duca with the New York Mets and gutted the team’s payroll from $60 million to $15 million.
The distinction, it turns out, soon may belong to the 2012 Mets.
After general manager Sandy Alderson revealed the organization lost $70 million last year, the Mets appear poised to have the biggest one-year payroll drop in MLB history — roughly $52 million. That would surpass the former record: $48.4 million by the Texas Rangers from 2003 to 2004, according to ESPN Stats & Information.
This isn’t a plan or philosophy by Sandy Alderson, it’s just smoke and mirrors and CRG helping the Wilpons hang onto the Mets which is how this story will end.
In the meantime, enjoy the ride…
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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This is a sad reality Mets fans. We’re F****d!
Fla is still way ahead on a % basis at least.
Also a little misleading, in that 2010 counts Castillo and Ollie in the total, and they were gone before last season.
How?? NUMBERS proved the mets were the biggest shelling out payroll, isn’t that what most of you wanna relly on? now that the numbers are there you still wanna defend the ineptitude of this front office… ??? amazing…
Eh, they were still cashing checks.
Personally I think what many seem to tell themselves falls within one of three ideas. The idea of do you believe that this is all part of a grand vision that will lead to championship caliber baseball or do you believe their is no attempt to build a winning team at all and just slash payroll or do you believe their is an attempt to build a winning team while also dealing with the financial situation the ownership has put itself that is handcuffing the org?
Me I find myself leaning to the 3rd idea hoping that the 2nd never turns out to be true.
I believe they truly believe in building an organization from the ground up that can produce players to support a sustained run of competitive (and playoff caliber) baseball.
And part of that is keeping your guys that matter (locking them up early too), and adding key FAs at the right time to put you over the top.
And that in the very ST (as in right now) they are dealing with the reality that the TEAM (not specifically the wilpons) is broke/running a deficit, so that is forcing them to be more conservative (which can be construed as “not trying to compete this year”).
But, there is not a grand scheme to implement a permanent slash and burn Oakland style operation (meaning trade everyone as soon as they hit Arbitration) or only use guys from the minors. The FO are not slaves to some saber-driven moneyball philosophy (and hell, that is just a book title!). They want to win, got to the WS, all those things that the Fans want.
But, the FO realizes it will take time, and they also want to lay the foundation to keeping running at it year after year. And they know that once the immediate financial crunch is over (assuming the wilpons survive it) the financial picture should be brighter, and if fans respond to a young, hungry, scrappy team, the revenues will be there to keep the core guys like Ike in place, and build around them.
That is what I believe. But, YMMV.
What you said…..
Well stated ANY. If they were just here to save the Wilpons money and not compete,they wouldn’t have spent the most money on the draft than any other front office in team history.
The franchise was not only losing money over the last few years but the team kept getting worse and had no help on the horizon down on the farm.Everything they had on the farm was at the lower levels and that wasn’t a whole lot in terms of impact players.
Next years free agent class is much better than the last 2. If they don’t at least fill a position of need with one next offseason then I’ll start getting aggravated myself.
They also would have never paid Omar to go away, anyone could have just slashed payroll.
This whole idea that they are building something is quite perplexing. Take away the Beltran trade and all you have is one draft no different than the other 29 team drafts. One trade, one prospect and it took the best player on the team to get him and wiped out what was a good season up to that point.
If this is a rebuilding plan than why wasn’t reyes traded and why did we simply lose a player of that magnitude for a couple of drops in the bucket on draft day, and not even a first rounder?
If the Beltran trade is the only evidence of this so called plan, it’s flimsy at best.
The vast majority of this offseason’s signings have exactly what to do with this master plan? Quintanilla, Cedeno, Francisco, Torres, Rauch? Are these players part of the plan?
Was cutting an entire minor league affiliate and 30 minor league roster spots part of this plan to building a championship through player development?
Where is this evidence?
Are the architects of this plan here in New York fresh from the championship plans they constructed in Toronto, Los Angeles and San Diego?
Where is the evidence?
There is only evidence of one thing in Flushing and that is payroll and cost cutting on a massive scale.
And of course the propaganda that it’s all part of this plan to a championship.
Whatever.
When before 2011 did the Mets not participate in the amateur draft? When before 2011 did the Mets not go after signing their draft picks?
And when before 2011 did the Mets cut back on the number of their minor league roster? And when before 2011 did the Mets cut back on their scouting staff? And when before 2011 did the Mets cut down on their minor league development organization?
Every team is in a perpetual “rebuilding” stage by virtue of having a minor league system. It’s a fail-safe system to hopefully protect the future. That includes the team with the reputation of buying the best players they can – the Yankees. Recent years have produced Hughes, Chamberlain, Gardiner, Martin, etc. And even though they were spending every cent they could on free agents (rightly or wrongly) both Omar and Steve Phillips were also deeply involved in producing a successful minor league system. Whether they did or not is another issue – the issue at hand is that they did. And this has hopefully produced a lot of the future for us already in the form of Gee, Parnell, Neise, Murphy, Duda, Davis, Thole, Tejada and Turner.
Teams re-build as the veterans either get older, opt for free agency and demand too much all within a year or so or the players they had counted on prove to be failures. If this happens slowly over time, the makeup of the roster slowly changes as well. When this hits a team all at once the results are devastating and indeed calls for true rebuilding. But this was not the situation facing the Mets a year ago beyond Castillo and Perez. They had a good mix of youth and veterans who past the half way mark found themselves only five games out in the loss column for the wild card. This despite the season ending injury to their power hitting young first baseman, a stretch on the DL for their star third baseman and loss of the season of their pitching ace. This was also accomplished with no help from the free agents signed by their new GM (and that includes Capuano, whom I believe was seventh in the league as far as run support was concerned and yet still finished up with a losing record — with that type of hitting behind him, R.A. Dickey or most any decent pitcher could have won close to 20).
So the Mets certainly were not in the position where they were forced to almost totally rebuild. As others have said, it is downsizing and salary dumping and thus this “rebuilding” stage would never have occurred had the Wilpons not been in such a financial bind for in baseball terms they were not at the point in which they needed a near complete overhaul. A better way of approaching free agency, yes, but not a total dismantling.
So the Mets are rebuilding for the future since ownership decided to destroy all they had going for them in the present in order to hang onto the franchise. There is no other way to describe it and for many, no way to justify it being in the biggest market in the country. This is not Oakland.
JoeyD, that’s not entirely true.They actually brought in more scouts when Alderson was hires.Also even tough they eliminated the GCL.They still have more minor league affiliates than most teams.
And the Yanks didn’t produce Russell Martin they signed him last offseason
.I would also say they really did need to dismantle the team.They had a good core but it couldn’t get the job done.The ship has been sinking for a few years now.Instead of plugging holes via free agency,rebuild the ship.
The problem is they haven’t done a good job communicating with the fanbase about what they’re doing up until recently.They tried telling us even when Omar was here that the Madoff situation had no impact on the team and they were full of shit.
Well Said MJ!
Three All Stars gone, and all they have to show for it is Wheeler!
Metsie, Wheeler is a stud… #28 in BA prospects for the 2012 campaign…
I don’t if anyone knows what the real motivation or vision of ownership or the FO is at this time; I know I don’t, and I doubt anyone outside the top management does. I think it will take another 2 yrs. to understand, and the Mets will flounder in the mean time. All I know is I will watch the games as I have since day one in ’62 and hope their able to compete.
MNJ and any, say it better than i do but i agree. i would’ve preferred that we attempted to maintain a competitive edge through the rebuilding process, but clearly we’re not doing that. Having said that, though, i do not believe for an instant that the plan is to become the Pittsburgh Pirates or Kansas City Royals ad infinitum.
This F/O has a plan. It remains to be seen if it can be effectively implemented. They have done it before, rebuild, utilizing astute player development tactics and selective trades to build successful teams.
But, it’s also true that, given the widespread use of sabermetrics and other player development techniques, such a plan is more difficult to implement today. So, i’d be far more despondent if i thought we indeed are the next Pirates/Royals of MLB and c’est la vie. Yeah, i’d be perpetually bummed.
But i don’t think so. The NYC ‘address’ saves us. At ‘some’ point: 1) the player development strategy works big time and MLB studs fill the roster; 2) fans come out to cheer the team; 3) our P&L improves an we’re able to reinforce the youth onslaught with selective trades and F/A signings–OR the seething fan base buys American Airlines out of bankruptcy and peppers the sky above Citi with irate “X years of lousy baseball! We’ve had enough!” (Another local teams did this once.)
i don’ know how, what, or when…but it will happen that the NY Mets will once again play sustained, exciting, and contending baseball in the not-too-distant future (2016 at the latest is my guess–and i hope it’s a lot sooner!)
The fact that the Wilpons came out publicly and stated that Madoff scandal would not affect the team or building a better product was just the 1st of many lies by ownership, FO and lack of clarity by SA.
How far this team has fallen, I think back to the Midnight Massacre when Seaver was traded and the time it took to get team and fans back on board, how long will it take and will bringing in new ownership be a reality.
The Wilpons main source of income outside baseball is real estate and that market does not look to be getting better any year soon, look at the market now.
I hope that a breaking point will be reached and they are forced to sell to an owner who loves this team and can financially help it w/o depending on market forces, real estate, for finances.
I knew it was bad but after reading Rubins article it just breaks my heart to see how far this franchise has fallen with no end in sight as long as Wilpons remain in control.
Move over, Sarge. There are so many of us who agree with you.
And those of us old enough to have been with the team since that first year in the Polo Grounds are old enough to read between the lines and understand the twisting, distorting or simply ignoring certain facts so to spin something from appearing for what it really is. We see this every day in politics and businesses concerned with influencing public opinion for self-serving purposes (i.e., those “I vote” ads from the petroleum association, etc.).
The Mets are a business and are practicing the art of spin to make it appear a total rebuilding stage was in the best interests in the team rather than the best interests of the owners who are hoping to survive past their current financial crisis and not to lose fan support in terms of box office revenue. It’s not a question of building a winning team, not at this point at least.
And yet people here STILL think all this is been done because we wanna build a “winner” for years to come.. just because they love the sabermetric/moneyball approach means it’s destine for foreseable winning.. this team is far for contention and the way it looks, no good free agent will wanna come here to play for this organization. it’s a real shame for us fans to have a front office and owners like the one we have, winning comes third after saving money and saving money to pay off the owners debt for being cro-oks.. but, you’d still find your 3 or 4 idi-ots who despite seeing what’s going on will try to debate how this GM is doing a helluva job..
Hi Alex,
Some fans feel the team, as it existed the past two seasons was not going anywhere and thus needed to get rid of overpaid stars who just weren’t doing the job and start all over. But I think they missed one very important point..
This team might have been just a slightly below.500 club based on the roster it had going into 2011 but, as we well know, it is quite common that just one or two modest free agent signings, a shrewd trade and a minor league callup has often resulted in turning a mediocre club into a legite contender.
But those types of moves was not the case with the Mets this past winter. Instead they released two key members of our bullpen and some of our bench strength and all we got in return was damaged goods (in the name of reclamation projects) and players the majority of teams weren’t pursuing. What this resulted was having more roster spots filled at less expense to ownership – nothing more – and thus the club has fallen from even being at least mediocre. With what we had, we could have easily gone up as well as down had the moves been different for we were not yet in the position of being forced to drastically rebuild.
We had a problem at second but the rest of our infield consisted of a young first baseman and players in their prime at short and third. We had an overpaid left fielder which we know Citi Field adversly affected his swing and threw him off his game. Center field was covered by Pagan. We had a comeback player in right in the form of Beltran (now replaced by Duda so that is no loss).
Catching was a problem and so was the back end of our starting pitching. That is where the help was most needed. So while the Mets didn’t have to go after a Lee, there was more out there than the injured Young and Capuano.
Our relief staff had done a decent job in 2010 but the three most repsonsible for that (Felciano before injury, Takahashi and then during mid season, KRod) were dumped and replaced by the likes of Carasco, Boyer, Bucholz, etc.
No, the Mets didn’t need to be rebuilt as much as they needed some reinforcements instead. But the Wilpons are in a financial mess – none of which was brought on by lack of fan support as it was fans being unable to afford to go to a game by being outpriced – and the franchise is being the sacrificial lamb.
And the spin reminds of when the Penguin (Burgess Meredith) ran against Batman (Adam West) for mayor of Gotham City in 1966. During the debate, Penguin pointed out that the newspapers always showed Batman being with the criminal element while at the same time, the pictures of him had him always surrounded by Gotham’s finest. Now, both points he made were true…. Penguin simply avoided telling the voters of Gotham City the reasons for the photos.
That’s why ownership is avoiding telling the fans of Gotham the reasons for these player moves.
They do want to build a perennial contending team. What ML franchise doesn’t?
Right now though, that’s the secondary goal – even though they’re trying to sell the fans on it being the primary goal. They can spin it all they want. I don’t know if they realized that NY fans are not that naive and were going to see this for what it really is.
The primary goal – for any fan paying a bit of attention – is doing whatever is necessary to make it so the Wilpons can hold onto the team. Period. It was the #1 factor in losing Reyes, it was the #1 factor in trading KRod (although I still believe it was the right baseball decision).
Trading Beltran and getting Wheeler – while it saved them a bit of money over the last 2 months – was absolutely the right move.
Slashing 50 MIL from the payroll in one year? It’s all about the money – saving it for the Wilpons – and nothing but the money.
Joey D, points well made, but that’s where the GM comes in, he has done a terrible job as a GM including handling the reyes negotiations, i am not saying we would’ve made the playoffs or anything, but certainly we could’ve been in the mix had he not given up on the season midway during it, and this upcoming season will be even worst for this team, we got holes at more spots than years past because he keeps getting this reject noone else want for the cheapest price, he’s not thinking about trades or making the club better, again, metsie pointed out how we lost 3 all star in 1 season and all we got is wheeler.. he destroyed the bullpen and “fix” it by overpaying for 2 set up guys and now we see many other Closer being signed at a cheaper price than he did, but of course, he needed to makes those moves to make fans forget about him botching the negotiations with reyes, he made idi-ots followers of him believed he had a good day, while forgetting he along with the wilpons was responsible for losing the most important player in franchise history.
Hi Alex,
That’s why I say the Wilpons, with or without the support of the general manager (we don’t know if it was his call or demanded by the front office) stabbed the team in the back last summer and literally took away from them a legitimate chance at the wildcard. Maybe we would not have made it, but no team has every thrown in the towel only five games out of the loss column nearly two thirds through the season. They were right not to have throw away of the future based on a longshot (like Duquette did with the Benson trade) but at the same time there was no reason to undercut it instead.
Getting Zach Wheeler was not worth sacrificing a season that up that point was full of unexpected vigor and hope. Has any other franchise in contention ever traded an important cog in their playoff drive for a prospect because he wasn’t going to be with the team the following season? I don’t think so.
I think we all understand the economics behind the moves and the reasons for them. It just comes down to whether one agrees with them looking through the eyes of a business perspective or as a fan who believed the team was going nowhere and knowing what the economic climate was, agreed that planning for the future was the right path.
In both scenarios, however, there is a difference between acceptance of the situation and approving of it. Perhaps some could agree that under current ownership there is no other road to take so they can accept the moves being made while not approving of them at the same time. With me, I cannot agree there is no other road to take for third option would be the Wilpons selling the team.
“Getting Zach Wheeler was not worth sacrificing a season that up that point was full of unexpected vigor and hope. Has any other franchise in contention ever traded an important cog in their playoff drive for a prospect because he wasn’t going to be with the team the following season? I don’t think so.”
There have been countless cases of teams trading away good players and stars due to being unable/unwilling to sign the player after their contract expires. It happens every season. That said, the Mets were not a playoff team even with Beltran and Rodriguez. They finished 13 games behind the Wildcard. They wouldn’t have come close even with those two players. The deal for Wheeler was a no brainer.
Absolutely true! They struggled all year long to keep their heads above water,at or around 500 even with those guys. And the bullpen blew alot more games before the K-Rod trade than they did after the trade.Mediocre staff,lousy bullpen,terrible defense and embarassing baserunning.They did a great job just to stay around 500 for most of the season.
I guess where I differ from you Joe and others who actually have points to make rather than complaints is, acceptance.
I can’t change anything about the way they are spending (or not) spending money. I can’t change the fact the Wilpon’s own this team right now.
I look at the minor leagues, through my own eyes and through interviews from Petey and articles written about kids like Harvey and I think “one day, this will be over.”
I don’t think for a second that by the time the Mets have to make heavy financial commitments to guys like Harvey, Familia, Wheeler, Mejia that the Mets will either A) Have the Wilpon’s in office or B) have the financial restraints that they do today.
It’s a tough road to follow, I don’t disagree but it is what it is. I think the concentration on the future is being done so an actual core of young talent can come into NY at a time when they hopefully have their finances in order.
I frankly don’t understand why people assume that 5 years from now the Mets will want to trade Harvey for young prospects. Is that an assumption that in 2017 the Mets will still be in financial hardship?
Right now, things are being done because it’s how they need to get done. And in a best case scenario you have to want the future to be focused on so that it allows the Wilpon’s time to get their $ straightened out and when they do, they are ready to strike with a homegrown core to build around.
I don’t see why that’s so bad?
‘I don’t see why that’s so bad?’
Right now, it’s the only course since the Wilpons are hell bent on keeping the team.
I believe the perception though is the fact that they went from one extreme to the other almost over night. Included in that was Reyes walking, which probably epitomized the entire financial situation – whether or not it made sense from a baseball standpoint.
If the Wilpons are going to hang on – and it certainly looks like that’s their plan right now – this is the only course.
So while I wish the WIlpons would just give up the ghost already – and we can get an owner in here who is solvent – I’ll still be supporting the team. As a die hard, not much choice. I’m not walking away. If I didn’t do it in ’77, I’ll not be doing it now.
Agian, take the wilons out of this for a minute.
It is the TEAM being in financial difficulty driving actions now. Even if you switched owners tomorrow, if the balance sheet is bad (revenues not supporting operations and debt), then it won’t make any difference.
teams have to support themselves. Unless you really think that some new guy is going to go in and fund 100mill in losses for a few years?
I think this is a big reason why no move was made to oust the wilpons, since the team finances had to be stabilized. And it was the opposite of the Dodgers situation (the way I understood that). the team was OK, but the owner was pulling money out of it to fund his own deficits.
Agreed.
It´s not as though all that spending was getting us anywhere. Sometimes it´s necessary to do some house cleaning before continuing. Sure, it´s not the the ideal scenario but, then again, I´m not totally pessimistic. Looking forward to seeing new faces, new vision…not much else you can do but maintain hope.
Yeah, because the team that win championships are homegrown all lineup and rotation right? they never acquire no free agents or anything.. they build the farm, develop the rotation and lineup then go and win championships..
Again Alex. You’re focusing on ME writing something and not what I actually say.
“they are ready to strike with a homegrown core to build around. ”
I never ever said that the Mets will have a roster of 5 starters and 8 offensive players all homegrown.
I did say they’d have a core to build around.
The last homegrown CORE (real one) the Mets had was 2 players realistically, Wright and Reyes. Everybody else was either brought in through trade/free agency or was not on the level of being a real core talent.
You mentioned Ruben Amaro yesterday at length. He inherited a core: Ruiz, Howard, Utley, Rollins, Victorino, Hamels, Madson, Kendrick for example. Is that an entire team of homegrown core players? No… but it’s a lot easier to spend $ in fewer places and have a greater impact than needing to spend on everywhere else but 2 positions.
The Cardinals: Molina, Pujols, Freese, Rasmus, Jay, Craig, Garcia, Motte, Wainwright, Salas
The Giants: Posey, Sandoval, Cain, Lincecum, Sanchez, Bumgarner, Wilson
The more young talent you have, the easier it is to make smarter decisions on spending $ on talent.
All you can do when you have financial contraints right now is collect and develop young talent. They all won’t make the big leagues or make a great impact but when you have a collection of talent rather than pinning your hopes on 2 guys or Alex Escobar or Milledge or FMart, you have a greater chance to actually create a young core.
And in NY, as we saw with the Yankees… if you have your finances in order, keeping a young core together is more possible here than anywhere else in the sport.
For that matter, use the Yankees the last time they were actually good.
2009.. CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON…
Right, so lets do a little looking here.
Jeter, Mo, Posada, Pettitte, Cano, Joba and Hughes (17 wins combined).
Looks like a pretty good home grown core to me.
Melky/Gardner, Cervelli (important at the time due to Jorge’s age), Robertson, Coke, Aceves.
The only significant bullpen arm NOT homegrown was Brian Bruney.
So just to recap the 2009 championship team had:
Posada, Cano, Jeter, Melky, Gardner, Cervelli, Pettitte, Chamberlain, Mariano, Hughes, Coke, Robertson, Aceves
Dicey with Aceves. Just nitpicking here because I want someone to disagree wth you and call you names. He was drafted by hte Blue Jays in 2001, then played in Mexico for seven years before the Yankees got him. He debuted with the Yanks, but wasn’t “home grown” in that sense.
While true, his contract was purchased by a Mexican team and he was barely heard from again until the Yankees went out and signed him as a 25 year old in 2008.
Right. Actually what I mean to say was “disagree with you and NOT call you names,” but my typing skills level somewhere with Alex’s baseball knowledge. I was just nitpicking. The Yanks didn’t “develop” in the same vein they “developed” their core.
Agreed. Scouted and found him would be a better way to remember him.
Last i checked, CC and Alex and Teixera were HUGE factors in them winning it all.. also burnett.. just saying….
Why do you keep missing the point? One the Yankees are a tough example because of unlimited payroll but hey I brought them up. Two, the fact that they did have a home grown core allowed them to go out and get the other pieces that they needed to win. It’s like you can’t see the forest for the trees.
That’s the point. You build your team largely of core players you develop, and fit a couple of FAs around them. You don’t go on a buying spree every season trying to a purchase a warm body for every position. The Yanks wouldn’t have been able to buy those players if they also had to buy a shortstop, second baseman, a closer, a CF and a catcher like the Mets do.
And Rodriguez was the product of a trade for one of their prospects. Do you think Sabbathia, Burnette and Tex go to the Yankees if they weren’t already winning?
They didn’t make the Yankees winners, they put them over the top.
Wasn’t alex rodriguez a FA after the 2007 season???? THANK YOU …
UH, so if the Mets signed Jose Reyes during FA would that have made him no longer home grown? Or how about this one, when the Mets extended Keith Hernandez they no longer traded for Keith but signed him. Your debates get more ridiculous as you go.
Funny story……..you know why Keith re-signed before ’84? He loved the prospects the Mets were developing and saw a future in the team. So this idea (that I’ve been largely ignoring because of how stupid it is) that no free agents will want to come play here is absurdity at it’s highest.
OF course, xtree – that was after Keith asked his agent? accountant? if he had enough money to retire b/c at first glance, he didn’t want to come here.
So the story goes….his father encouraged him to look at their minor league prospects coming up. Apparently, his father had access to watch a lot of the rising stars and was impressed.
Keith hated NY and hated the Mets as a Cardinal, and Whitey traded him here out of spite. But the Mets and NY grew on him, and the future of the kids was too much to ignore.
And what does that mean, exactly? The Yankees also re-upped with Jeter, Bernie, Posada, Mariano, Pettitte………so the fact that developed those guys doesn’t matter? They developed someone who they traded A-Rod for, then signed him to an atrocious contract. But that’s another story for another article. And A-Rod opted out on his own.
As has been pointed out, he reupped with his team.
and again, do you think any of that happens (or works out) withoutt he work Stick Michael did in the early 90s developing the farm?
Stick and Brian Sabean built that team of the 90′s.And if Georgie Boy doesn’t get suspended from baseball that Yankee dynasty may never have happened.He would’ve traded half that core for washed up allstars.
Here’s a question, the Mets are most likely not as good as they were last year unless some guys rebound. I realize that. However, is the team 52 million dollars worse? How many less wins are you predicting? Now divide 52M by that amount. Think that is worth it? Fact is that a big reason the Mets are in the situation they are in is because they spent a crap load of money and it did not work. While I do not enjoy the Mets being broke and irrelevant this season, I do enjoy the fact that they are working towards getting a lot of dead weight off the team even if their motive and my motive might be a little different.
I agree with you.
I’ve seen some very HIGH predictions for Ike on this site lately. If those people feel Ike can do 35+ HR 100+ RBI then he’s out producing Beltran+Murphy.
If people are confident in Duda then he’s replacing who?
If Wright and Bay turn it around even a little bit, aren’t they making up for the Reyes loss in a way? There’s more than 1 way to score runs.
You cannot deny that on paper this bullpen isn’t better than 2011. If you do, you’re not looking.
The rotation is the exact same except the hope is to replace Capuano with Santana.
So I can’t see how you can come here and say the Mets will be so much worse than 2011…
‘Fact is that a big reason the Mets are in the situation they are in is because they spent a crap load of money and it did not work.’
This.
Because if the players we had the last 5 years had us in post season the last 5 years, then the Madoff debacle wouldn’t have hurt half as much, if at all. Revenues would have been way up and we wouldn’t be looking at this 52 MIL payroll cut right now.
I would rather they spent 90 mill on 90 mill worth of talent, instead of spending 140 mill on 50 mill worth.
Exactly, trim the fat, make good baseball decisions and hopefully the result of that will eventually be not only talent to build around but also money to spend on the needed parts.
I was thinking about that as well. Besides distaste for the current owners and blaming them for the current issues, what good is a new owner? They are not going to come in and invest 50 M of their own money on top of the money paid for the team AND on top of the money needed to pay off the bills.
There is more to the direction a team is headed to than just the quality of the prospects.
Keith also knew that the Doubledays were committed to investing in the team to build a winner. The Wilpons are committed to keeping the team and then buildng a winner. No amount of prospects can alter that fact.
New ownership infuses new money. They won’t take over with just enough to cover the purchase price. To do otherwise represents poor business leadership.
Uh, guess we just see this differently. I think most owners buy a team not for just the hell of winning but also to turn a profit. I would be surprised if a new owner came in, bought the Mets, paid their dues AND spent a ton of money the first year.
If the team is running in the red, money to fund spending has to come from someplace.
So, is it really that much different for the owner to write a check out of his personal funds than it is to borrow money like the Wilpons have done?
So in effect, every time they take out a new loan, they ARE putting money into the team
I just don’t see them investing that much money and then just turning around and going on a spending spree on personnel as well. Not unless they deem the Mets close to contention and able to support the increase.
Nolan Ryan and his group purchased the Texas Rangers in 2010 when the team was $575 million in debt and we know they then went right into free agency. Whether this is sound business strategy in the long-term I don’t know and I am not familiar with what television rights might have been involved.
The new ownership that took over the Nationals during the 2006 season did exactly the opposite by not holding on to high priced free agents or going after new ones. They invested slowly and now we can see the fruits of their patience with those who came up through the system and high priced free agent signings.
But new Met owners do not have to gung-ho like Texas did or start from scratch like the transplanted Expos did. Recall what I posted earlier:
“This team might have been just a slightly below.500 club based on the roster it had going into 2011 but, as we well know, it is quite common that just one or two modest free agent signings, a shrewd trade and a minor league callup has often resulted in turning a mediocre club into a legite contender.”
So from my perspecive, new owners would not need to spend a lot of money that first year to turn this team around like Texas. But the more the Wilpons retain ownership, the more those possible owners will indeed be forced to go the route of Washington instead.
I seem to recall that Texas was stepping into a huge TV deal when they took over, but certainly can’t remember the details.
I guess it also depends on how much of the debt the new owners take on 9and of course, how much they put in on top of that).
Say the club is worth 600mill free and clear. If they put up 25mill + absorb 575mill in debt, in theory it is the same as paying market value without it (not taking into account time value here, just trying to look at the big picture!)
Question is were the Rangers making any money from their on field product at the time of the sale? The Mets are losing a ton of money and yes a few signings CAN vault you into contention but most likely without the pieces to go around it then it is a guessing game. I for one believe that even with the team they had last year coming back this year AND spending Ollie/Castillo’s money in FA they would STILL have too many questions.
yeah, Hicks had run into serious money issues, but the team was still a WS contendor.
There are four directions I think one can take:
1) Seeing the Mets as just a few players away from being a legitimate contender and does something about it by adding to the team.
2) Seeing the Mets as just a few players away from being a legitimate contender but does nothing about it by keeping the team as is.
3) Seeing the Mets as just a few players away from being a legitimate contender but because nothing will be done to help the team, rather than retaining the status quo a major portion of the team is dismantled and the team looks toward the future by acquring younger players and prospects and looking toward the future.
4) Seeing the Mets as more than just a few players away from being a legimate contender the team is dismantled and the team looks toward the future by acquring younger players and prospects and looking toward the future.
Depending upon one’s perspective about the current roster, options one and four would be acceptable. But never would fans, who were paying their money to support the team when they were able to (and thus not be the cause of the WIlpons debt), ever approve of options two and three unless they distance themselves from the emotion of being a fan and look at it from an owner’s perspective instead.
I suspect it would not be uncommon for the fans perspective and the GMs perspective about how close to contending (and how few players it will take) to be quite different!
Plus the wildcard that has to be played, how good are the few guys?
if it is 2-3 mid level support types, you have to go for it.
If it is 2-3 top tier studs, that is going to be a bit more difficult!
That’s of course, correct. We as fans put a lot if not all emotion into our outlook while any general manager has to deal with being objective.
That’s why I could even accept option four even if I don’t agree with it. That means Sandy has limited confidence in the youngsters (i.e., pitchers Neise, Gee, Parnell, Murphy at second, Thole behid the plate, a rejuvinated left fielder and now in center (he has improved the bullpen somewhat) unlike me. If the future is therefore years from now, Wright (and also Reyes) might have been the right players at the wrong time and thus a waste as far as the Mets are concerned. Although as a fan I disagree, that at least shows a purpose beyond the Wilpon’s own personal goals and though I might not like it, I could at least accept it.
But I can’t believe as a general manager Sandy believed the personnel he had last season was that bad and the fact that he did dismantle a contending club by getting rid of our top hitter and star closer is proof enough for me that he’s going with option three whether he wants to or not.
I read somewhere yesterday where Angels owner wrote that check for Pujols out of his pocket with the plan being to recoup that money with that huge TV rights deal they signed.
That’s true. I read several reports that cited the same information.
Goes right back to only spending what the revenue can support though. In this case, sounds more like taking an advance on your allowance!