9
2011
Sandy Alderson Is Now The Face Of The Franchise
An article by 
Here are some blogger’s and journalist’s reactions to the Jose Reyes saga. None are as rosy as the reactions I saw posted somewhere else the other day, so I thought I’d bring some balance to the Force. What follows is a perplexing thought that slapped me in the face this morning.
Jose Reyes is neither a whiner nor a crybaby, a fact that bears repeating after what became an ugly day for him and the Mets. The shortstop, wearing a Marlins uniform at his introductory news conference, reminded Mets’ fans, “They didn’t want me there.” That prompted Sandy Alderson to fire back at his former star — the wrong move, compounded by the wrong choice of words. “If you’re asking whether I should have sent [Reyes] a box of chocolates, perhaps I should have done that,” Alderson said sarcastically on Wednesday.
So why didn’t Reyes hear from the Mets? For the same reason they ultimately never made an offer: Because they weren’t interested in signing him. That’s the truth they never made public, which in itself was a mistake. All those “conceptual” discussions he had with agent Peter Greenberg were designed only to camouflage the empty bank account. If the Mets were motivated to bring Reyes back, they would’ve made their first offer on Day One.
Let’s be clear: the Mets deserve no pity for the messy state of their franchise these days, and fans have a right to be angry that, for whatever reason, the ballclub has no money and is now doing business with a small-market mentality.
Furthermore, the organization could have done more to create the public perception it would do all it could to bring back Reyes, making a credible offer early even if it meant setting the market, as Sandy Alderson feared.
OK, who out there is a conspiracy theorist?
Here’s the case: within hours of losing superstar shortstop Jose Reyes, Mets GM Sandy Alderson schedules a press conference to announce the signings of two ho-hum relievers and a similarly unexciting trade with the San Francisco Giants. Coincidence?
Telling reaction: when asked about Reyes’ departure, Alderson answers with a condescending reprimand reminding the journalist that the press conference is about the Mets’ trade of Angel Pagan and has nothing to do with Jose Reyes. A nice attempt to be cute, but glaringly defensive.
BTW, it was also strangely ironic that an inane Mark Buehrle – to – the – Mets rumor sprang up just hours before the Marlins-Reyes press conference; was that planted by a “source” from the Mets front office?
I knew this move was coming. But I am sick to my stomach. Defending this move as strategy is pathetic. Have some pride.
My Thoughts
People are still pissed off and rightfully so. There seems to be an enormous amount of evasive maneuvers throughout Mets Nation. Many say this was played brilliantly by Alderson, which makes me glad these people are bloggers and not CEO’s of a Fortune 500 company who have a mush different approach to acquiring talent.
The big concern to calling this an intelligent design by Sandy Alderson, is that it means for most of his 14 months as a Mets GM, Sandy has been lying through his teeth on Reyes. It now sounds like he’s ticked off that Reyes called him out on it, and we’re seeing an attack-dog-like defensive side to him we hadn’t ever seen before.
Most of us knew the Mets were not going to be able to afford Reyes once he hit the open market. The trick was trying to snare him before that happened. I thought it was funny when he told me on a conference call three days earlier that he wasn’t expecting to get a shot to match or beat any Jose Reyes offer. I felt like telling him at the time, “Hey Sandy, you’ve had a shot for the last 14 months,” but the call wasn’t the proper setting for that type of open banter.
Ultimately the blame for this lays at the feet of Fred Wilpon, but that doesn’t excuse Sandy Alderson from not being frank, honest and professional about it.
Are we to believe him when he says David Wright won’t be traded – or Ike Davis? They say where there’s smoke there’s fire and Dallas is abuzz with Ike Davis and David Wright trade rumors – Dallas is burning.
Anyway, lets just hope that this road we are travelling, a road that is especially less traveled in New York, leads to a better place and a few 90+ wins seasons 6-7 years from now when all these 18-20 year-olds we’re banking on, turn 24-26. Lets hope this plan works out better for us than it did for the Kansas City Royals and Pittsburgh Pirates.
I’ll leave you with this genuine thought that popped into my head this morning…
The Mets might be the only team in the majors in which the general manager is the face of the franchise. Yes, that’s right, Sandy Alderson is the face of the franchise right now. Strange, but true.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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I somewhat understand the Mets no longer want to be locked into long term contracts. There have been many examples of any really long term contracts panning out for the team that signs the player. What frustrates me is that the least the Mets can do is tell us just that. Don’t blow smoke up our butts and tell us “we tried”, but it didn’t work. I for one could understand it they told us that they want to re-start to build with youth via trades and restock the minors, it’s just that we have to always read between the lines and all of the smoke and mirrors crap in the wake of the Madoff situation.
In other words, Wilpons CAN’T afford this team anymore and it’s time to sell. But before they do, they will bring it down to 1978 -1980 teams.
I still think Wright is.
That last post should have read “not panning out”.
If that’s the face its sad and pathetic. The man is a zombie; no personality, no feelings, no nothing. Did you listen to him on Francesa? Couldn’t even answer the softballs Mike tossed him. Stuttered and stammered knowing that nobody besides donal and any beleive his lies any more. The man may have been on top in the 80′s, but in 2012 all he’s left with is his arrogance. And if his superstar assistants had any talent why weren’t they even considered in Houston? You know why…They are just puppets, just like Alderson. To the pnzie man.
thanks, jimmy.
By the way, I heard Otis Nixon is coming out of retirement. Want to guarantee him 5 years at $15 million per?
what the hell does that have to do with anything? moron.
Omar Fanboy making comments about someone’s presentation to the media.
Your comment is a little off color and bit offensive for this day and age, no?
How so?
The regular season can’t come soon enough.
Yes, it can. It is too soon upon us and there is nothing to look forward to. The fact is the regular season will SUCK!
This is why I want the season to come. Because the doom and gloom, oh this team sucks, Sandy is the worst, this team won’t win 40 games, blah, blah… is just too painful. This is a sport, not religion. Join one of those soccer leagues that doesn’t keep score. You’ll have less angst.
Joe,
Great article. He IS the face and an UGLY face at that. His “eyewash” description of Jose’ Reyes was especially revealing as to his mindset. The “chocolates” insult was the next escalation in that mindset which is now revealed to be consistent with the “hard head” attitude of a former Marine. When under attack, the belligerent Marine attitude comes to the forefront. We are beginning to see the dark side of this GM, and whereas, his predecessor was a well-meaning bungler, this GM is vindictive and combative. The reality is that everything that happens under this administartion and ownership is all about dollars and nothing to do with winning. Italians have a name for the hard-head attitude and demeanor: Testa Dura (a head which is hard, thick, and impenetrable). This GM is capable of seeing reality only from his personal vantage point and has no ability to factor empathy into his approach. He is cold and calculating and cares little of the players or fans who follow them. A very sad time for Mets fans indeed!
On an aside, I see that you have come around to my viewpoint that we need to look to 2020 as the timeframe in which there is any hope to begin a process of repair. In the meantime, the Mets will be trapped in a spiral of declining performance and expectations. Not a pretty place to be. It’s too bad that the current GM is either too dumb or, charitably, too uninterested to figure that out for himself.
I like how one snarky remark answering a bunch of whiners is “vindictive and combative”.
But when Bobby Valentine or Ozzie Guillen attack reporters and flat out insult players, it is being “take no garbage” and things like that.
Funny that.
Who is the face of the Cubs? another team in the same shape as the Mets. Who is the face of the White Sox? another team in the same shape as the Mets.
Yes David is still a face of the team but obviously when a team like the Mets, White Sox, or Cubs go through rebuilding the GM is going to be one of the prominent players. Seems like common sense to me.
the face of many holes and no stars, anti winning sandy. 7 straight years under .500 as gm.
This is kind of inaccurate unless you are believing that he was not calling the shots in SD from 2005-2009. That would be incredibly naive. Also, to put in perspective you would have to also say what happen at the end of his tenure with the A’s. In 1995 he was ordered to slash payroll to an extent much worse than what he is even dealing with now. Is he a genius? doubt it. Competent GM? most likely.
It’s a tough situation for Mets fans to be in and I understand the anger but to me it is being misplaced. Fact is that due to the current owners, previous regime and players the Mets underperformed and lost a crap load of money and now are paying the price for that. Sucks but it is what it is.
Where did you get that about 7 years of losing? It’s simply not true. If you dont like his approach that’s one thing but we don’t need to fabricate lies now.
I think the bigger issue with the Mets is that MLB or I should say Bud Selig is good friends with Fred Wilponzi and is giving him way too much slack. A good commissioner would have fixed the issue a long time ago by forcing Wilpon to get his act together or force him to sell. He should take a “we can’t have this in New York” stance. David Stern basically held a gun to the Knicks heads and forced them to get their act together. HEY SELIG, HELP US MET FANS!
You know Donnie Walsh was fired and Zeke is still calling shots under the table, right?
Can’t say that I disagree with you. Dolan is a putz, but at least thier commissioner can see the issues and tried to make things right. He is watching.
Wow, is that why nobody go to the games anymore???? the face of the franchise is a GM who has had 7 straight losing season AND counting???? wow… no wonder this is a sad and pathetic franchise..
Alex: If the Cubs turn it around, will you give Theo Epstein any credit at all for it?
Why is it now I’ve asked 3 people that question and not 1 has answered it?
because who in the hell cares, this is about the mets and the direction they are going, which in despite what you write is down, our team, the mets, not cubs or atl, could not compete with the Chinese in the little league ws.
Or because it proves your 7 straight losing seasons wrong?
Theo has the same job Sandy had in SD. *Everybody* will give Theo credit if that team turns it around. Everybody. Yet here, you and a few others act like Sandy was busy playing Angry Birds while he had a job in SD so he had nothing to do with their 2 division titles
Didn’t san diego HAVE a GM when sandy became PRESIDENT!?!?!?!!? Answer me that please…
Um yes they did Alex why do you think he was hired as President though? To sit in a chair?
That same GM had the team a 74 win average over the previous 6 years Alderson got there.
I am in no way saying Alderson waved a magic wand and fixed everything but YOU and WILL are giving him NO CREDIT at all with respect to his time in San Diego, and why? Because its more fun to say “7 straight losing seasons,” even if it isn’t true
it true and 8 is on it’s way
Hmmm, is it even correct if you DON’T count the SD years?
1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 2011.
What??? san diego won 87 games the year before sandy took over, before that they were losing, yes, they collected draft picks along the way, good players, so they were on their way up not down, sandy took over then the team went:
82-80
88-74
89-73
63-99
75-87
“That same GM had the team a 74 win average over the previous 6 years Alderson got there.”
And when he was there, they had a 79 win average – Big deal, five wins more…..still a losing record.
Why has no one answered you?
How Many All Stars have the Cubs traded away in the last year?
We have traded 3!
How many have they traded away in the name of GETTING BETTER?
LOL, the Cubs would LOVE to trade away some of their “all-stars” but unfortunately for them they are all Bay like in terms of trade. Think they would not love to trade Soriano or Zambrano?
The thing about all Moneyball teams like the Mets is that the GM is the biggest star on the team and in most cases he’s in the top five on the roster as far as highest paid. The GM is the rock star when you go Moneyball, not the players. When the player reaches star caliber level, he’s promptly shipped off or not re-signed.
I’m sure he had nothing to do with say the signing of Mike Piazza for the 2006 Padres who ended up being the 2nd best hitter on a playoff team behind AGone.
Or the trade that sent Nady to NYM and brought back Cameron who was a great fielding CF who happened to be the 3rd best hitter on a playoff team in 2006.
Or the backup C Josh Bard who played in 93 games and finished the year with a .943 OPS who was traded for doug mirabelli?
Or the waiver deal that brought Russel Branyan to SD from TB for the final month of the year. Branyan only had a .971 OPS with SD who oh by the way won the division v. LA based on a tiebreaker
Or reliever Cla Meredith who pitched in 45 games in relief with an ERA of 1.07 acquired in the same deal that sent Mirabelli to BOS and brought Bard to SD
Yeah he probably had nothing to do with any of those moves… its odd how the team won 82 games the year prior and then won more games the next year with more moves hmmm
And then after that, lost almost 100 games hmmmmm.
And I’m sure he had nothing to do with trading WS MVP David Freese for Jim Edmonds who hit .178 for them.
Actually the year after 2006 was 2007 and they won 89 games.
Whatever. They still lost almost 100 games in 08….and during his time there, lost more games than he won.
I don’t know why you’d want to give him credit for that.
I’m not giving him credit for anything other than what happened. Im not the one here trying to pretend the man wore an invisible cape in SD.
To say 7 straight losing seasons is to say he had nothing to do with SD and that isn’t true. He was hired for a reason. You can’t just wash away a guys record because it doesn’t fit your argument.
OK. Six straight losing season, as a GM……and a losing record with the Padres.
he was hired because he is buds and wilpons friend, no skill required.
So why was he hired by SD will? To fill an office?
not sure but the article in SD after he left said this –
People are happy he left for the following reasons, not the least of which was his manner in interviews – he was extremely condescending towards the fans… I am not sure why he subjected himself to weekly radio interviews by the Padres radio broadcast station because he seemed to hate it and was seemingly sensitive to any criticism by the hosts or callers.. He often came across as an arrogant Harvard Lawyer – probably because that’s what he is –
sound familar? Jose.
will:
The best thing about this quote is that you claim it’s from an “article.” Lie.
http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=messages&webtag=ml-padres&tid=40202
“People are happy he left for the following reasons, not the least of which was his manner in interviews – he was extremely condescending towards the fans… I am not sure why he subjected himself to weekly radio interviews by the Padres radio broadcast station because he seemed to hate it and was seemingly sensitive to any criticism by the hosts or callers.. He often came across as an arrogant Harvard Lawyer – probably because that’s what he is ” is probably that you took it from an MLB Forum”
the 2nd best part is that you left off the end of this 1 person’s opinion:
“However it should be noted that he did accomplish a couple of things of note. He was able to get owner John Moores to loosen the purse-strings somewhat and increased the budget for signing draft picks… He also got the payroll up to $73M . He took Drafting responsibility away from Kevin Towers which was long overdue. Drafts improved in his time here, but he perpetuated the philosophy of going after signable players rather than the best player available and then putting a full court press on getting them signed… so he gets mixed reviews there. He played a big part in getting the WBC in San Diego which was appreciated by fans ”
So apparently MLB Forum user “caminito” is the end all opinion on Sandy Alderson when it comes to “will.”
Will, since you love lawyers so much I’ll end this reply with this…
As Marshall Erickson would say, you just got lawyered.
Uh Will you are 0-2 today in accuracy. Good thing is in baseball if you can come back and get a hit here you will still be in line for the HOF.
Hmmm, people saying something bad about a guy when he leaves? Never heard of it.
Also, good for Sandy. Seems like that he acts in the best interest of the team instead of floating around to the fans whims.
You are right, he most likely was hired because he was Bud’s friend and Bud trusted him to clean up the mess that was the Mets. What’s your point?
jessep is out here saying he was hired because he has skill, just wanted to clear that rumor up.
You are missing the part about Bud trusted him to clean up the mess. If he had no skill then why would Bud trust him? Obviously it is in MLB’s best interest for the Mets to not be a joke.
no best interest not to go bankrupt or keep borrowing money, sorry we are already the laughingstock, and it is only getting worse
Uh aren’t we saying the same thing? It is in baseball’s best interest for the Mets to be good and be in position to spend lots of money and have high attendance? If you think that Bud wants to tank the Mets that is silly.
Ya, whatever, you can just keep moving the goal posts.
Will and Alex brought up the 6 losing seasons – not me. So how am I moving the goal posts? I’m just giving you the facts.
It’s a disgusting face and he continues with his “box of chocolates” remarks now with Pujols.
The arrogance & snark this guy’s followers exhibit is finally surfacing with their leader himself and more and more people are noticing. Joe B on Joe&Evan this morning was addressing it too and I agree and am happy we are seeing some cracks in whatever personality Alderson has (if he has one)
The guy comes across as a defensive, arrogant jerk and is bad face for the Mets. I have no problem not watching or caring about what this team does anymore. This guy is very easy to dislike and the fans are finally catching on. And I still say the way he does business is what contributed to that 70 million loss last year.
With this guy the Mets are not a fun baseball team anymore, reading about the Mets is not fun anymore and the experience just completely sucks with this guy around.
Imagine when Alderson succeeds Selig as Commissioner of MLB (assumption on my part). He will be so heavy handed that even 5 year contracts will be met with a back hand. The collusion days will be back.
Hell, when your best move of the off season is removing black from the uniforms…
let met also add that a guy like Alderson is very, very hard to root for and definitely very easy to dislike and root against. Every other GM i see interviewed on MLBNetwork is filled with enthusiasm, speaks TOTALLY CLEAR, they have a personality, and you understand exactly what they are saying. And they’re not tipping their hands either.
This guy is a disgrace and makes it very easy not to like this team. Unfortunately the players themselves are innocent of this and that’s what makes it hard to leave this team altogether.
Every other GM wants to be a GM and doesn’t look at it as a demotion. This whole Alderson / GM arrangement was probably a straight quid-pro-quo deal Bud tells Alderson ” You get my friend Fred’s house cleaned up and I’ll give you my full support for Commissioner when I retire in a couple of years.” Sounds about right to me.
the vast majority of the fan base is paying no attention to Sandy or everything he says or does. They still pay attention to the players, and the games.
You honestly think people are going to not go to games because the GM comes across as a wet blanket, or makes an occasional snarky comment back to reporters?
the team will be what it is, and people will decide if they want to follow it based on the players and the record. Not the GM.
More importantly the record. Which is why Sandy and the Mets had a tough decision to make. Losing Reyes does not help the record next year and thus attendance will still be down. However, with Reyes they did not show up either. Until the Mets can start winning the attendance will stay where it is and perhaps even slightly lower. However, the thoughts that Citi’s attendance is going to drop 99% are foolish. You are forgetting the average fan that still attended the games last year. Those are ones that either are diehards or are people that would go watch a 160 loss team just to have the experience of the park to share with their families. No those fans don’t cut it in terms of providing enough revenue to support the previous payroll. However, a long-term approach to build a better product will.
No they are not going to go to games because the GM traded away all the players anyone would have gone to see!
Come on Metsie, attendance was WAY down before that ever happen. Attendance had tanked before Sandy ever got here.
I’ll say this for your post Joe D. It gets an A+ for originality. I think your the 1st person to make a case that Alderson is the face of the franchise.
I always liked Alderson, but his chocolate remark revealed his utter contempt toward Reyes as a human being. How dare you sp….? I am so depressed.
But knowing how cold and tough
he is….Maybe he will do his job well….Destroy and rebuild his way.
I don’t think the comment was aimed at Reyes. It was aimed at all the whiners just looking for any excuse to attack. And it was funny.
And honestly, I think Reyes going on about he wasn’t shown he was wanted is total crap. He showed he wanted to get paid in the second half and no moonlight strolls on the beach were going to change that.
I am also sure that Jose was a bit peeved that after winning the batting title he had exactly one team interested in meeting his demands. How’s that for love? That you envisioned yourself as Carl Crawford and only had one team sniff 100 million with no other offers even on the table. If it was not for the desire for the Marlins to make a splash they most likely could have held out until the Mets either made an offer or Jose lessened his demands.
I don’t think it showed contempt towards Reyes as much as the inaccurate reporting and inability for some to understand the FA process. There are those out there that still think that Reyes’ agents had no idea how much the Mets were offering and what the terms were just because he did not make a formal offer to appease them.
Yeah, good luck with that.. he’ll destroy the franchise, but the way is going i doubt we’ll see a championship under him anytime soon…
The franchise was already for the most part held up by one shaky table leg.
really???? minaya’s worst year was 2009, when EVERYBODY and their mother got injured, yet the team finished 70-92, his worst year after that was 2010 the team went 79-83, all kinds of injuries once again including no beltran for more than half of year, then here comes the genius and the team regresses.. and will keep regressing until he steps out..
They were also outspending their revenue by a wide margin and were losing money at a tremendous rate. Thus while going “all-in” they produced a situation where the Mets could not get a Citibank Visa card much less enough money to pay all their bills.
I’ll say this Mets2012. As a GM you are always better off taking the High Road on all situations and Alderson should of done so here but in my opinion the Box of chocolates remark was probably in response to Reyes talking about the love he was showed. When let’s be real no matter how much love they showed he only signed once they upped their offer giving him what he wanted.
All that being said it’s not that big a deal except for a few that may dislike the GM to begin with.
MNJ, once again, we disagree, yes he took the money, but the marlins CALLED everyday, starting at 12:01 AM the first day the FA signing opened up, unlike the mets and sandy, the guy is an arrogant ashole, he proved who he really is, by thinking he’s better and smarter than everyone he continues to put his foot in his mouth, he’s the worst GM in the history of this franchise and he obviously don’t give a f***, he’ll collect his $ and walk out after leaving the franchise with a 5 straight LOSING YEAR…
LOL, Sandy did not call everyday and parade around in a Reyes jersey because he did not have the money to sign him. Why is that so hard to understand? The money was not there…. it sucks but it was not there…. I hate it for the Mets but the money was not there…. they have no money… the Mets can’t afford to pay Reyes (an oft injured player who relies on speed) 110M to come back to a team that will still not win enough to increase attendance to pay for such a move.
Agreed they called often but for all the 12:01am talk and the tour and the love Reyes didn’t sign until they upped their offer and not 1 second before. In the end it was as Reyes said “a business” Had he signed for less than the $100M he was seeking then maybe I would say he signed cause of the love but he didn’t. He signed only after they reached his magic number of $100M.
I know but that snarky remark showed his mean streak. I really doubt he wanted to sign Reyes. Hoping for the home town discount for NYC? Pathetic…
But the Mets are broke….I guess he the right man for the team now. the terminater.
One snarky comment does make a mean streak. You want to see mean streaks?
Look at what Bobby Valentine, Ozzie Guillen and Billy Martin would say to and about people they were pissed at.
theo epstein will get all the credit, he appointed manager, coaches and the guys at the front office when he was assigned as the President of the cubs. unlike alderson, san diego HAD a GM in place when he took over.. please look it up and get back at me anytime, now, back to being a GM, right now, alderson couldn’t hold epstein’s jock. epstein is 3x BETTER than alderson and his 3 goons COMBINED!!!!!
So your thought process is the guy who is hired to be the boss of a guy who hasn’t had success in 6 years gets no credit? Got it. I’m sure Sandy had no ideas, he probably just sat back and collected a paycheck. He doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who would want to bring his own thoughts on how to run a team to the table right?
Alex, seriously I want to know if you REALLY believe that Sandy was not calling the shots in SD. That’s not very Alex like. I have a feeling that if they had done poorly during that time you would be using that against him saying that he was the chief. Got to give credit and blame equally where they are due.
trs86: you mean you don’t think Alderson is a hands off type of guy? hmm
It’s not like the Padres did that good when he was there. They won more games than they lost during his time there, so saying “he turned them around” is a stretch.
They made the playoffs, but the 1st year they only won 82 games, and the other year was 88. Most of the time, you don’t make the playoffs with those records – They only made the playoffs because they played in a very weak division – anywhere else, they don’t make it.
Vinny, please see below, he actually ended up with a losing record there too.. the man as a GM AND a PRESIDENT is a loser LOL>>>> pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!
sandy alderson record in san diego while the president:
82-80
88-74
89-73
63-99
75-87
Please do the math and what will you get???? a losing record!!! they made the playoffs twice but you know what, they only won one game…. one game in 2 years going to the playoffs… what else???
So wait a minute, does he get credit for this or does he not get credit for it. Was he calling the shots or not calling the shots? If you are now saying that he was in charge then the 7 straight losing seasons would be inaccurate but then you could say 3…
Or perhaps you want to add up his entire tenure as the guy in charge and use that win loss record? Looking at that I get 1674-1565, that’s a lot of big numbers so I could be wrong. That gives him a .518 winning percentage while being in charge most of that time of teams that had very little money. Does not make him a genius, lucky or average? How the hell do I know?
ok, here are his losing streak as we speak, as a GM he’s got a 7 straight losing season and 2 as a PRESIDENT. how about that?!?! AGAIN,. he was not the GM of the padres, there was a GM already when he got there, he took over a team that won 87 games the previous year…
alex even facts, trs86, donal and jessep try to spin there way out of, amazing, and call us liars at the same time.
Will it is not about sides. I am trying to figure out how the comment is even true. What am I missing? How is it 7 years?
oak gm till 98
93- 68-94
94-51-63
95-67-77
96-78-84
97-65-97
98-74-88
mets 11 77-85
will get your facts straight
Beane took over on October 17, 1997.
OK, so instead of 7 years, it’s 6 – Like that makes everything better….and gving him credit for the Padres, when they LOST more than they won, makes him also look better? Actually it makes him seem worse.
they had 3 .500 seasons versus 2 under .500.
All you’re doing is weighing his losing seasons to cancel out the winning. You’re making this an excuse to dislike him, you’re cherry picking numbers.
In terms of winning SEASONS he had 3 in SD in 5 years. Did he not? Including 2 playoff appearances.
In the previous 10 seasons before he was hired here the Mets had how many playoff appearances again?
I never said Towers had NOTHING to do with it. I’m saying Alderson had SOMETHING to do with it. Not everything. I’m merely responding to the people here who when looking over Alderson’s record, white out the first 3 years he was in San Diego simply because it ruins their argument.
“I mean when do you ever see an 82 win team make the playoffs?”
An 82 win team beat the 2006 Mets to get to the WS and eventually win it. I bet you would have loved to be that 82 win team in 06 right?
my goodness vinny can you please follow the bouncing ball
I do not think Sandy Alderson deserves ALL of the credit for the San Diego Padres success or failure during his time there. However, I feel people like alex and will that ignoring his record for the sake of piling on to an ant-Sandy agenda is wrong.
Sandy Alderson was hired as Team President of a major league baseball team and that team had 3 winning years out of 5. To say he has had 6 straight losing seasons (or 7 for those who can’t count) is inaccurate and ignores the fact.
Are we now judging him based on his overall record instead of losing seasons? I am confused. Seems like the parameters are changing as we speak.
My point is that if you are going to go around saying something over and over and over again as fact then it pays to be factual. Does 6 or 7 really matter in the scheme of things? Not really. But does what he did in Oakland in 1993 matter either? Not really.
The winning? 82, 88, 89 wins, then had 63 and 75 wins – That’s nothing to brag about. The only reason why he made the playoffs those years is because that division was so weak, I mean when do you ever see an 82 win team make the playoffs?
An average of 79 wins a year, isn’t good no matter how you spin it. And I don’t know why you want to count that so badly – it doesn’t make Alderson look better, it makes him look WORSE.
Plus, how can you say that Kevin Towers had NOTHING to do with those teams? Your making it seem like Towers wasn’t even there.
Your giving all the credit to Alderson for “turning them around” but why doesn’t Towers get credit for that?
Winning 82 games is NOT an accomplishment…..That means you are just barely better than average – So we are going to make a big deal about having a team that just a little better than average? Come on. The only reason why they made the playoffs was because their division was so weak.
And in total, they lost more games than they won – 79 win average when he was there, which isn’t good, no matter how you spin it.
Oh and you bring up the 06 Cards….what about the hundreds of other 82 win or so teams that missed the playoffs?
the 06 Cards are the exception, not the rule.
Over 16 seasons so far as a GM.
http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0ApxE2V-jZhJHdHNJbmVFU0NxOGwtQUtCTTZEa285RUE&output=html
Thanks NJ.
Can you help me out seriously? Lets say you are only counting the GM years with the A’s and the Mets. How is it 7 straight?
Right it’d actually be 6 if you were ignoring San Diego which only somebody with an agenda does.
11-97-96-95-94-93 and if you don’t count SD then I don’t know how you count 1994. Unless of course we’re giving MTL a championship since they had best record before the strike?
Oak was 1 game out of the playoffs when the strike happened… but lets ignore facts. It’s easier to focus on things that sound good when screamed
It’s six. And as for his time with the Padres, I think Towers was more responsible for those teams….But if you want to give him credit for SD, go right ahead, but you realize your giving him credit for a team during that time LOST more than they won.
And Jeseep, in 94, the A’s had a 51-63 record – I don’t know how that’s good.
I hate to say this but my fellow Mets fans are such whiners. They whine when they lose; they whine when they win. They whine when the Mets sign bad contacts; they whine when they don’t. They whine when Jeff “runs” the team; they whine when a GM does. They whine about not rebuilding; they whine when they rebuild. They whine because they signed Bay; they would have whined if they did not….
Joe D – how about posting what Ron Darling said too? He called out the Reyes camp for being disingenuous about the Mets not making an offer or talking to them.
Just another professional broadcaster/media guy with a different side of the story.
Agreed but it will just be viewed as a guy on the Mets payroll saying something that he was told to say. Even though they were most likely championing his remarks last year about the pitiful play of the team.
Kay, I posted these comments in response to a similar post on MetsBlog where a dozen rosy comments were displayed in his reactions post a day ago.
That’s what I referred to in my preamble if you will.
Not surprisingly, MetsBlog posted post similar to mine 30 minutes after this one to balance what was obviously a slanted position initially on Wednesday. Darling and several other similar views were already shared in the last 24 hours, however not everyone saw it one way. As I said, I wanted to bring balance to the Force.
” As I said, I wanted to bring balance to the Force.”
Ya, and look how well that idea actually turned out.
All though, to be fair, if you really wanted to be balanced, you’d show both sides yoruself and not vaguely refer to what another site did.
One more thing, Darling is an employee of SNY/Sterling Enterprises, it wouldn’t be surprising he’d give his employers the benefit of the doubt. In fact look at all the takes of every blog on the SNY Blog Network – notice a trend?
One thing SNY is known and respected for is not having a bunch of company mouthpieces like YES. After seeing how eager Ronnie and others are at expressing their opinions, you really want to say that has suddenly changed?
Also, considering how Ronnie could get another job this afternoon if he wanted, do you think he was easy to muzzle?
While true, do you not remember how critical he was of the team and their play last year and the year before? Same thing with Bobby O.
Yes, in-game analyst Ron Darling pulls no punches and tells it like it is. We are talking about offseason business and player negotiations here. Remarkably every SYN Blog echoed Darlings comments yesterday almost as if they were handed talking points from above. Did Darling have any comments about Reyes before yesterday on negotiations or lack of?
Before then neither side was really talking. There was only one team with an offer on the table and according to reports the Mets were still in the mix. What was to be said?
To me implying that Darling of all people is a puppet is kind of disrespectful to the job that Darling has done. The Mets are very lucky that Darling is there, not the other way around.
I have yet to hear what Darling said but I have a hard time believing that he is now a parrot echoing the company line. I would never put Darling in the same group as some guys running blogs for SNY.
Come on Joe – you watch the games, Ron and Keith are hardly known to have filters, they’ve called out Mets players before, they sugar coat nothing. How about when Keith and Reyes almost went to blows when Keith called him out for dogging it a couple of years ago on air?
One thing Kay, I’ve always considered myself to be a compliment to Cerrone. I know he gets 30,000 unique readers a day, we’re less than half that at 12K, but he yields a lot of influence on the fanbase. I try to post the other side to most of Cerrone s opinions and try to complete the picture.
He has other writers but they are remarkable step in step with him on every opinion. Did you ever read one of the other writers on MetsBlog say “I totally disagree with Matt on this”?
We need balance and objectivity in the end, and if someone didn’t look at the opposing viewpoint our fanbase would be an army of drones.
Enjoy the diversity.
^ Equals Joe D’s balance haha
Bah humbug. Are there no poor houses or prisons for opinions like yours? lol
Here’s another perfect example Kay from Mets blog, seconds ago:
Giant Fans React To Losing Torres
http://www.metsblog.com/2011/12/08/giants-fans-react-to-losing-torres-who-will-miss-sf/
JKGiants: “Thank you, Andres. I will always remember you as inspiring, humble, and a wonderful human being. Thank you for helping this 57 year old Giants fan experience his first world series victory.”
SueBak: “I will miss you Andres. You were a great Giant with a huge heart and will always be someone I cheer for, no matter the team. Best wishes to you in NY!! Thank you for always leaving it all on the field. You’re one of the good ones.”
StgPosey24: “This is what put me over the edge. I started crying when I saw this. Torres is a class act, and was one of my favorite Giants, and still is one of my favorite baseball players. Good luck in the rest of your career, Andres, because you deserve only the best.”
Napacat: “Torres was my favorite Giant. He played an amazing center field, and watching him go into his track-star motion around the bases was always thrilling. But above all, I loved the genuine joy he brought to the game. … Thank you for everything Andres. I will always love you, and I hope New York is good to you.”
Look at all those comments? Objective reporting? Or slanted and biased?
Why no Mets fans reactions to losing Angel Pagan post? (And if there was, would it be all “good riddance” comments?)
Lots of shilling going on. Anyway, I’ll be back I need to write a Pagan post.
Fact is – Alderson did make an attempt to sign Reyes. However, Reyes refused to talk during the season. Alderson was very upfront with season ticket holders at a reception – the Mets had a ceiling price for Reyes in both years and money. Reyes was not going to give a hometown discount so why offer a contract with Two less years or less money. Reyes would then complain the offer was insulting. GET OVER IT PEOPLE!
Klapisch says this team has a 400+ million dollar loan against the team AND a 400+ million dollar loan against the stadium. He said the team loan is coming due in 2014. Is that the money they borrowed to buy out Doubleday? What else would they have needed it for? Selig has to step in, but he is a POS and won’t. Does ayone know anything about these loans and how much they owe? I know they owe MLB 25 million.
i liked Reyes. He was a great Met. But sometimes, he played with his head stuck up his butt…and then there is the very real risk that his hammies will give out on him each year for a 20 – 50 – 90 gaames. THAT’s not a good variable when facing the reality of having to pay the dude 22mm+ in the latter years of a long-term deal, when he’s in his 30s.
So, i have no problem with losing him to the Marlins. None. His market price was way above the risk-reward threshold. Period.
The only thing that bugs me in this Jose Reyes saga is if it was likely that we couldn’t afford him in F/A, why didn’t we trade him in July IF, indeed, the rumored bounty included a basket of top prospects? That’s my question.
Otherwise, i have no problem with losing him. Good luck to him. And i approve of Alderson’s strategy. In fact, given our financial straits, ‘outperforming our (shrinking) payroll’ is the only prudent goal and downright laudable. Here’s to 2014!!
There was no basket of prospects for Reyes at the time of the trade deadline. He had just came off another leg injury and was not doing well at all. I also suspect the Mets assumed they would likely get a first rounder instead of a second rounder.
i thought i read this week somebody saying we passed on a bunch of prospects in July only to lose him in F/A…
to keep saying tey didnt want reyes is absurd. they simply could not afford him! why do we keep acting tlike they didnt want him. of course they wanted him. they also wanted pujols and wilson and every good FA they cannot afford.
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
classy
Will, THE CORE………… LMAO!!!! man that sh** was funny…
Not nearly as funny as you get schooled last night by Hitman or will going to an MLB Forum and passing off a quote as something written in an “article” after Alderson left.
joe, you care alot about what reporters think. that is pointless. the simple truth is the mets badly wanted jose reyes in the same manner that any team wants any really good free agent. but only one team can sign him. its not a travesty or disrespect to the fans. its simply a matter of one team offering the most money. again, we should expect the mets to be less likely than other teams because we are the only team that has anything to gain by not signing him. so if anyone should be sad, it is the fans of every team other than the mets and marlins.
It appears that you are a little peeved that you have been caught passing lies 2 times in a row. Isn’t that what you are calling out Sandy for? Wouldn’t that make you a hypocrite as well?
I guess I’m in the minority here. I was never pissed off. Highly disappointed we didn’t resign Reyes but not pissed off. Probably b/c I saw the handwriting on the wall that we had less than probably a 20% shot at making it happening.
I also see no point in shooting the messenger – which is how I see SA. This is all on the Wilpons and solely on the Wilpons. They’re bleeding money out of ever orifice. Owe NYC $26 MIL, NY state $26 MIL and MLB load $25 MIL. Revenues way below projected numbers.
Maybe I’ve just become resigned – or even numb – because of the steady slide these past several years. Necessitated lowering any expectations I had of actually competing.
Sigh……
srt — I’m in your boat too. But I’d add Commish Bud Selig. I’m holding a spot open for the uninvited guest, Irv Picard. He’s a rogue who jumped into a questionable law suit. Federal Judge Jed Rakoff dismissed 9 of 11 charges in the case but $300 Million is still up in the air.
Very true concerning Selig. He doesn’t want his legacy walking out the door, to include one of the 2 NY teams going bankrupt. What happens after he leaves probably won’t keep him up at night.
“things we will never learn on sny”
You are so right about this mess. The problems that we have should all be placed at the doorstop of Fred and Jeff. “The books” can be made to read anything that the accountants want them to say but the fact is that ownership had far too many bad contracts in the last 25 years or so. Still paying Bobby Bo makes me sick. The Mets lost 70 million last year? If that is so it is because the current revenues couldn’t catch up with the many old “albatross’s” hanging on for so long. There are only 2 ways to fix the problem. Either sell the team to new owners willing to splurge on free agents which can be a quick fix or to instead cut spending on salaries by trades for younger cheaper players and prospects for the future. Seeing as how the Wilpon’s have not publicly tried to sell the team, then they are willing to wait till they can rebuild slowly. Bottom line is that is why Sandy Alderson is here!
We may not like it to be a lousy team for a few years but it may pay off as our rivals in the division are now doing what we did in years past and splurging. Will it pay off for them?
As bad as we feel about losing Jose as fans can you imagine what the fans think down in St Louis?
Joe – once again you nailed it.
The similarities between the late ’70s Mets and now are remarkable.
Back then it ended tragically for the ownership. In 79 the attendance was 788,905 (12th of 12)
AND it wasn’t even that high – ownership cooked the books!
I see the same thing happening to the Wilpons. The fans will simply not want to go to an overpriced ballpark – spending $300 for a family of four to watch a mediocre team. The team will continue to lose money and Fred will have to sell.
I just hope it happens sooner than later because, right now, its like watching a slow motion train wreck – just like the late ’70s.
I have tried to give sandy a chance, but he has shown himself to be incredibly insensitive to both players and fans. He’s in the second year of a two year contract, if i’m not mistaken, and just a figurehead for financial reasons until the wilpons get tried for madoff’s scheme.