Making Sense of the Tankersley Signing

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• Mr North Jersey January 12, 2011 at 6:14 pm

  Let’s hope your right.
  • SFloridaMetsFan January 12, 2011 at 7:02 pm

    Me too. If not he’s in Buffalo. That’s what’s great about minor league deals. High reward for a small risk.
• Henry January 12, 2011 at 7:08 pm

  ” …. a reshaped and now somewhat formidable bullpen ….” What on God’s green earth do you see that would cause you to make that statement?

  Anyone and everyone who could possibly be in the 2011 Mets bullpen is a question mark — including KROD.

  Tankersley IS a mediocre move — heck, he isn’t even signed to a guranteed contract …. all he has in a minor league deal with an invite to spring training.
  • Bayonne Mets Fan January 12, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    Hey,

    Don’t forget that Sandy made the move and anything Sandy does his army says will turn to gold, don’t you see that?
  • Clayton Collier January 12, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Here are some of the likely arms in the 2011 bullpen:
    -Carrasco, a 3.68 ERA is a great reliever. A veteran and a go-to guy
    -Buchholz, 3.75 ERA, returned from injury last year and showed he is still able to pitch, possibly back to an ’08 (2.17 ERA) form.
    -Parnell, 2.83 ERA, is an up and coming kid who had a great year and is probably the future closer.
    -K-Rod, a 2.20 ERA, despite his recent off-field problems is still one of the top-tier closers out there.

    Those are some solid guys for bullpen standards. Not every team has a bullpen as good as the Braves or the Giants, so compared to the average MLB bullpen, for an opponent late in the game, these arms aren’t a walk in the park to face.

    As far as Tankersley, yes he is a minor league contract, but that is what Alderson’s style is. It is all about the low risk, high reward capable guys. Tankersley did struggle the past few seasons but regardless you can’t beat his stats versus 3rd and 4th hitters. It is hard to find shut down stuff for oppenents’ best hitters. The numbers don’t lie.
• Matt January 12, 2011 at 7:53 pm

  A mediocre move is a generous statement. The guy has a career WHIP of over 1.5, with his best being his rookie year of 1.439. Plus, he averages over 5 walks per 9 innings pitched. In the last 2 seasons he played, his ERA was 8.15 and 7.50 respectively, not to mention he missed the 2009 season due to surgery. Only good thing about this guy is that he strikes opposing batters out at a decent rate.

  P.S.
  He’s also given up 10 HR’s in his last 29 innings pitched. Mediocre move…I think not. I guess guys like Bobby Seay, Ron Mahay, and Joe Beimel are out of the Mets price range…considering they are quality major league lefty relievers.
  • alwaysnextyear January 12, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    so was schoenweiss when they signed him.
    • Matt January 12, 2011 at 8:26 pm

      What was Schoeneweis? The Mets signed him the year after he was traded to the Reds and had a 0.63 ERA and a 1.186 WHIP. This was preceded by a his first season and a half as a full-time MLB reliever.
      • alwaysnextyear January 12, 2011 at 9:16 pm

        “considering they are quality major league lefty relievers.” from the post above, referencing some of the bigger names signed or left.

        my comment simply meant that you can still get burned with “name” BP guys, but they just cost you a lot more.
  • Clayton Collier January 12, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    Those guys might very well be out of the Mets price range.

    Even though his ERA over the past few seasons is terrible, he is a strike thrower, and still in 2010 held lefties to a .200 batting average, a .286 OBP and a .433 slugging percentage. Not to mention again the 3rd and 4th hitters do not hit well off of Tankersley. in 2010, the 3rd hitters didn’t even record a hit off of him. The cleanup hitters hit .182 off of Tankersley.

    This is the hidden potential I am reffering to and why it is more than just a mediocre signing.
    • Matt January 12, 2011 at 8:33 pm

      Strike thrower? He has 70 walks in 118 innings pitched. Thats over 5 per 9 innings pitched. By the way…holding lefties to a .433 slugging percentage is not that good, that just means when lefties got a hit against him, it was usually for extra bases.
      • Clayton Collier January 12, 2011 at 8:46 pm

        yes but if they get a double or a homer once every 9 or 10 at-bats, thats not bad.

        Oh, sorry I looked at his 2010 pitch counts where he had mostly two strike counts. As for the walks, They aren’t good, but its not an astronomical number.
        • Matt January 12, 2011 at 8:53 pm

          He gave up 4 HRs in 12 IP last season. The guy gets a fair amount of strikeouts…besides that, you really have to reach to make this guy sound like he has anything else going for him.
  • Chris January 12, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    a good weight of all those numbers you just mentioned are against right- handed hitters. The Marlins tried to use him as a cross-over guy when he is obviously a bonafied LOOGY. What you didn’t mention is his career WHIP against left-handed hitters is 1.19 with a .217 average against and 2.36 K/BB. If he’s fully recovered from his surgery you should expect numbers closer to those than the ones you mentioned, since he was obviously acquired with a LOOGY role in mind.
• Kevin January 12, 2011 at 8:48 pm

  ok how about this one. would you rather have possibly Tankersley as a lefty specialist or everyones favorite met ollie perez?
  • Bayonne Mets Fan January 12, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    Ollie is a starter not a reliever so that’s not relevant to this debate. I think what it’s more about was the front office could have spent a little more money if they wanted to, not a lot but a little more to sign better quality players instead of trying to prove they’re so smart and analyzing just numbers of bottom of the barrel guys in hopes that they ALL will do better now because Sandy signed them.
    • alwaysnextyear January 12, 2011 at 9:19 pm

      you don’t think that Alderson, etc. can figure out which player is better (using stats or otherwise?) And that they are just signing cheaper guys to prove that they are smart?

      if they are signing cheaper guys that aren’t as good it is simply because they don’t have the $$ available to sign someone better. Not because they don’t want the best players.
      • XtreemIcon January 12, 2011 at 9:23 pm

        And all spending more money this offseason would do is take away from the draft budget and not give the Mets the ability to go over slot. Anyone who’d rather sign a middle reliever for two years with the same money they can go over slot for a high end draft pick to control for the next eight years has absolutely no understanding of how to build a long-term success story. It’s how Omar built his dynasty.
        • Bayonne Mets Fan January 12, 2011 at 9:32 pm

          In New York City, if spending 8-10 million more is gonna effect this alleged “long-term success” story using alleged “tried and true principles’ as one person wrote here before then that’s a principle i don’t want to buy into. Especially considering this team had a nucleus to compete for the Wild Card to begin with.

          I’ll give you this though, maybe Sandy figures now that Philly has the best rotation in baseball then maybe he can throw in the towel for 2011 and save more of that money to sign high end draft picks.

          Tried and true? Since when? Only one World Series and that was in the 80s.
          • XtreemIcon January 12, 2011 at 9:40 pm

            Who said anything was tried and true? The only thing that’s tried and true is throwing tens of millions of dollars at old, declining players who “unluckily” miss half the season due to injury with no suitable replacement. It’s been the MO of this team for far too long and while Sandy’s plan might not work, at least it’s the antithesis of the plan we KNOW doesn’t work.
            • Bayonne Mets Fan January 12, 2011 at 9:44 pm

              I should point out that it was Craig Lerner who coined the term “tried and true principles”

              “As the Mets enter into a new era with a brand new philosophy based on tried and true principles, lets hope that it never happens again”

              tried and true principles is another way of saying sabermetrics and moneyball philosophy.
              • XtreemIcon January 12, 2011 at 9:48 pm

                That’s what you took from that comment? Your head is so far gone against sabermetrics, you’ve lost all coherency. But hey, at least you’re not hypocritical or anything. What with you putting words in other people’s mouths after screaming at anyone who’d listen not to put words in yours.
              • Mr North Jersey January 12, 2011 at 9:55 pm

                xtreem i guess your supposed to answer for lerner’s quotes
              • XtreemIcon January 12, 2011 at 9:57 pm

                Actually, Bayonne found us out. Craig and I are actually the same person posting under different names.
              • Mr North Jersey January 12, 2011 at 10:00 pm

                that’s too far down the rabbit hole for me xtreem
              • t agee January 12, 2011 at 10:16 pm

                No it’s not. Tried and true principles like building through your farm system rather than signing ever Moises, Ollie, Jason or Luis that just so happens to be available
              • Craig Lerner January 13, 2011 at 1:43 pm

                Bayonne, I was very shocked to find my name in the thread of another writers thread.

                When Joe D. first discussed the writer opening with me he gave me a word of warning. He told me that a solid 75% of the readership at MMO are not saber fans and that 50% of the readership was 40+ years old. He also told me that I needed to have a very thick skin to blog on MMO or otherwise I should think about writing for another site.

                My response to him was not to worry because although I love and use advanced metrics all the time, I’m not combative about it and thought I would fit in well with the other great bloggers on this site.

                To my surprise you have been on my case since my first post 8 weeks ago and I wish I knew why. It may come as a surprise to you but I actually love baseball and love the Mets and watch every single game each season just like you do.

                As a show of good faith, on a couple of occasions I took your suggestions and started including batting average into my posts alongside OBP although I’m not a true believer in Avg.

                I also started using at-bats and RBI’s as well just so my posts will have a broader appeal and because you seemed to have a big problem with my omission of them in my earlier posts.

                I did this because I wanted to try and be accepted in this very unique MMO community and to show you that I’m not at all confrontational or overly defensive about how I choose to evaluate players.

                It seems that no matter how hard I try to show you that I’m not out to get old-schoolers like you, you seem to have the perception that my posts are somehow an attack on that philosophy.

                For some reason you continue to come after me for things I may have said or opinions I may have shared, and I just want you to know that it has never been my intention to knock you, your philosophy or anyone or anything else in my posts. I haven’t even written one post on sabermetrics. All I do is post and comment on Mets news like everyone else and maybe share a different opinion occasionally. I don’t think I need to be taken to task for that.

                I hope that in the future you can see that I am a true die hard Mets fan just like you, and that we can coexist with out having to resort to the idea that I have some sort of an agenda on this site because the fact is that I don’t.

                I have been a big fan of this site for many years and even though I didn’t always agree with Joe D. or some of the other writers, I respected the fact that we could all have intelligent debate about the Mets, a team we all have equal passion for.

                Anyway, I just felt I needed to get that off my chest and I hope that in the future you will respect my opinions just as I respect yours.
          • Mr North Jersey January 12, 2011 at 10:16 pm

            You see Bayonne just has a problem with them not spending as he said “8-10 million”.

            It’s OK if he feels they haven’t spent enough I think fans have been saying the Mets don’t spend enough for the longest time now. Why should this year be any different?

            I myself have complained about spending in years past.

            The difference now is that weighing where we are already in payroll and seeing that just because they spend money doesn’t mean much based on the results of the past few years. I am OK to allow the Alderson era to do things the way they want and see if they can garner better results in the next few years.

            I call it “patience” I am sure others have a different name for it.

            In any event I think a fan wanting the team to spend is what a fan is entitled to if they wish but also allowing a new GM time to implement a system his way should be recognized as well.

            1 cents worth.
            • OklahomaMetFan January 13, 2011 at 3:44 pm

              Craig, you do a great job here. Don’t let one boy’s opinion like bay’s derail what you write. Please keep it up and I’ll keep reading.
              • Donal January 13, 2011 at 4:15 pm

                Ya, you write on the internet. You’re just not going to make some people happy.

                there are people that you turn around and directly parrot everything they say, and they will still slam you. It’s just a relaity you have to deal with.
    • Kevin January 12, 2011 at 9:38 pm

      oh yeah because perez spent a lot of time starting games last year didnt he. you forget when manuel sent him to the back of the bullpen where no one could find him and brought him out when there was no one else left to pitch like the game in LA when he gave up the walk off. he was just a useless roster spot
    • SFloridaMetsFan January 13, 2011 at 10:55 am

      Actually it is relevant. LOLiver will not be in the starting 5 this year. If he even makes the team out of ST he will be in the BP. So I would take Tank over LOLiver anyday.
• MetsMan86 January 13, 2011 at 12:18 am

  I don’t see how anyone could hate on this move. Very low risk with the minor league contract.
  • SFloridaMetsFan January 13, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Some people on this site would complain about having the winning powerball ticket!
• Tommy2cat January 13, 2011 at 5:01 am

  I would characterize many of Alderson’s moves as “cautious,”, which is understandable given the mess that he inherited.

  My concern is that the Mets were penny-wise pound-foolish in their failure to re-sign Takahashi, who is an experienced lefty, effective in a variety of roles and, by all accounts, a pleasure to have around. To think we could have had him around for three years for less money than one of Ollie’s years, and declined to do so, is difficult for me to accept.

  Hence, I am less than enthusiastic about the Tankersly signing. I recall never having fear when he took the mound against the Mets. That’s really all I recall about him.
  • SFloridaMetsFan January 13, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Yeah I agree. I think the Mets should have re-signed Tak. But by all acounts he wanted to start, and only start. And if you watched him last year, he basicly is a 4-6 inning guy max. After the 2nd or 3rd time through a line up he would get lit up. Or be at 100 pitches through 5. If would have accepted a BP role, Tak would be a guy I’d give a 2 year, 8 mil contract to.
  • Donal January 13, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    I’m on board with this as well. He could actually fill a couple roles resonably well. A Utility Pitcher, if you will.
• Kramer67 January 13, 2011 at 3:33 pm

  Craig, dont let Bayonne deter you from writing what you believe. Dont give him a hollow victory.