11
2010
From Left Field: Would You Trade Ike Davis For Prince Fielder?
An article by 
So with the bulk of the offseason looming, there are many questions surrounding the Mets. One that fans would not think would be a huge issue is first base.
Ike Davis had a solid rookie year hitting .264 with 19 HR and 71 RBI (just three behind the Mets rookie record set by Darryl Strawberry in 1983).
He played a Gold-Glove caliber first base and is booming with potential.
I have been hearing some possible free agent signings and trades over the last week. Most appear unlikely due to contractual issues or financial constraints. But one that caught my eye was a possible deal that would send Ike Davis to the Brewers for Prince Fielder.
At first, I thought to myself, “I would never want the Mets to make this trade.” But after giving it some thought, it might be a deal they may want to consider.
Before I go on, I’d like everyone to know that in my opinion, Davis could blossom into a terrific power-hitting first baseman. The Mets have lacked a true power threat for the past few seasons and could use a jolt in the power department.
Enter Prince Fielder. Though Fielder had somewhat of an off year in 2010, the man’s got raw power. He averages 37 HR per 162 games and has driven in over 100 runs in three of his five full seasons, including 141 in 2009.
Now why would the Brewers trade such an impressive talent who is only 26? Well the business aspect of baseball comes into play.
Fielder will be a free agent after the 2011 season, and let’s be honest: There’s no way the Brewers will have the budget to re-sign the big guy. Rather than let him walk for just compensatory draft picks, the Brewers would be smart to trade him for a high-level prospect.
Enter Ike Davis. Davis has proven he can hit major league pitching but suffered from a few stretches of inconsistency this season. Scouts have compared him to an Adam LaRoche-type player (above average power, solid glove, will strike out a good amount, hit somewhere between .260 and .280).
So would trading a young Ike Davis who “projects” into an Adam LaRoche be worth Prince Fielder?
I will be the first to say that I am extremely torn on this possibility. I enjoyed watching Davis for us this year. He had some clutch hits and hit some monstrous home runs.
But I also realize the presence that Prince Fielder would have in the middle of the Mets order. There’s no telling if Davis will develop the raw power of Fielder. I wonder what the Mets would do if the Brewers were willing to pull the trigger on this deal (another major consideration).
When looking at this deal, it would make sense for both teams. The Mets desperately need a consistent power threat, and the Brewers would solve their first base vacancy for the next few seasons.
Like I said, I’m glad I am not in charge of making this decision, but I am curious to what the fans think. Feel free to let me know if you would make this deal or place your confidence in Ike, and of course why or why not.
About the Author: Jim Mancari
Jim Mancari hails from Massapequa, N.Y. He is currently pursuing a Master's degree in Journalism at Hofstra University, with an anticipated graduation date of May 2012. He is a devout Mets fan and takes pride in his team, despite their lack of success over the last few years. Like all Mets fans, Jim has plenty of hope. He also writes as the sports correspondent for the Brooklyn Tablet newspaper, the senior editor of metroBASEBALL Magazine and the co-managing editor of the Long Island Report website. Contact Jim at jmmanc@gmail.com. Click my name to view my website.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 26 | 17 | .605 | - |
| Nationals | 25 | 17 | .595 | 0.5 |
| Marlins | 23 | 19 | .548 | 2.5 |
| Mets | 22 | 20 | .524 | 3.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 22 | .488 | 5.0 |
Last updated: 05/22/2012
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I would probably lean towards keeping Ike but regardless, I doubt the Mets would ever do it. Consider what they would have to pay Fielder in 2012 as opposed to what they’ll have to pay Ike.
I wouldn’t do it and see Prince walk, either. I’d think harder if there was an extension for Prince in the works, a la Johan. I’d be more apt to explore what kind of pitcher would be available for a package of Ike, Pagan and prospects, then sign Dunn and David DeJesus to fill the respective voids.
X, Good idea. We add age, salary and strikeouts and payroll. I like your plan.
Thanks. Dunn’s the major power threat the Mets haven’t had since Delgado left and DeJesus is a better player than Pagan, anyway.
But I wouldn’t just GIVE Ike and Pagan away. The pitcher has to present a significant upgrade, and that’s the key to signing those players. No trade, no signings.
The last thing we can do is get older, more expensive, weaker defensively, and increase the whiff rate. I’ll tell you between Wright Bay and Dunn that would be close to 500 strikeouts in the middle of your order and exchanging a very good defensive first basemen for a very poor one and an outstanding defensive CFer for a decent one. Whatever you gain in HR’s you give back in defense and K’s. Especially in Citi you need players that play well defensively. Imagine if we had to live with Castillo or a similarly poor defender and play him next to Dunn. Man I wouldn’t want to be the RFer on that team.
Firstly, you underestimate DeJesus. He is superior to Pagan in all facets, except for stolen bases. Secondly, Dunn will only be 31 next year. Thirdly, relax on Ike Davis. Dunn’s yearly average for K’s is 183. Extrapolate Davis’s 2010 to equal Dunn’s average yearly ABS and he K’s 172 times. Fourthly, it’s not just home runs the Mets get with Dunn over Ike. It’s slugging, OBP, OPS, Iso, and a myriad of plate discipline issues, aside from being feared by opposing pitchers.
Well X, First of all. you did not address the defensive part of what I said. How do you think our GB pitchers would feel about pairing Castillo OR a similar poor defensive 2B next to Adam Dunn? (I’m assuming the new GM allows Tejada to back to AAA where he belongs) Run prevention is a vital part of winning baseball games. Secondly, Dunn is a type B free agent. and a perfect DH. That means that many, many teams will be in on him. The fact that he won’t cost his new team a #1 pick means that he’s going to get paid a lot of money because the 29 teams other than the Mets do not like to give up their #1′s. Ortiz is probably gone and that means Boston or the Yanks will be in on him. Raising payroll here when we have a good young player who plays 1/2 the game great and the other 1/2 pretty decent for yet another one dimensional older strikeout artist in what is going to be a rebuilding year is a waste. Young players tend to get better. Older one’s tend to get worse. You really cannot compare Dunn’s 8 year career to Ike’s first year. That’s not really a fair comparison. We don’t know where Davis is going to settle in but I’m positive his strike outs will go down and his walks will go up as he gains experience. Remember he only had about 160 games over 2 years in the minors before he came up here. One thing we know for a fact about Dunn is that he is going to strikeout 1/3 of the time even after being in the Majors as long as he has and that # is if anything going to get worse. We can also reasonably assume that his defense will continue to get worse (if that’s possible) I just don’t see why we would take on a lot more salary for a situation like I just described. By the way SLG OBP OPS and ISO are really just two things OB% and SLG not 4 as you make it look. If Dunn was so feared he wouldn’t be striking out 200 times a year. Obviously he’s being pitched to. Perhaps game on the line he gets IBB no big deal. Probably would be pitched around here too. Swapping Davis for Dunn would set us back at 1B for many years to come. As for Pagan – Dejesus. I could compare their stats one by on but it is probably easier to just compare their 2010 WAR Angel 4.8 Dejesus 2.5. Because of the neglect of the Met farm system over the last 20 years it is absolutely vital that we not trade young low cost 2 way performers for older soon to be in decline one’s. We have to evaluate players as if they were stocks. Buy low. Sell high. Pagan and Davis are stocks that are going up. Dejesus and Dunn are stocks that have leveled off and will soon be in decline. Dejesus is a good player. I’m not taking anything away but Angel had the best WAR on the Mets this year and is just coming into his own. I’m not selling and the same goes for Davis his stock is going to rise and I’ll sell him way down the road. Now is not the time. HOLD
Wrong on several counts. Firstly, OBP, SLG, ISO and OPS are four different things. Two players with an .800 OPS are vastly different players if one player has a .300/.500 OBP/SLG and the other has a .450/.350. ISO measures raw power, nothing at all similar to those stats, thank you.
Second, as far as defense, it certainly wasn’t a big deal to put Castillo at 2nd with Delgado. Range at first base is like tits on a boar. He’s got some pretty good hands, and that’s all Wright needs to win a gold glove.
And as far as WAR goes, using a season in which DeJesus played fewer than 100 games makes you look anything but knowledgeable.
Also making you look foolish is your idea that Dunn isn’t feared because he gets pitched to. Really? First of all, he’s behind only Pujols, Adrian Gonzalez, Prince, Hanley, Pablo Sandoval, Ryan Howard, Ibanez and Ethier in IBBs. And Hanely, Pablo, Raul and Andre only have one more. Are they not feared, either? That being said, IBBs are a skewed stat because Dunn also has as many as Melky Cabrera and fewer than Carlos Ruiz for no reason other than they bat before the pitcher. Think about that. Carlos Ruiz is 4th in the league in IBBs. So is that really a useful stat? And what about the rest of the team. The Nationals are so bad, Dunn doesn’t often come up with a chance to do damage and justify a walk.
You continue to prove that as passionate and knowledgable as you are about the Mets, you’re equally as clueless about the game outside of the Mets.
Not really X, I wasn’t talking IBB’s as a total for the year. I was talking about them in regard to late inning situations. You know when you might want a game tying HR. That’s when Dunn is not going to be pitched to. OBP and SLG = OPS. It was a HUGE deal having Castillo next to Delgado. You must not have been watching when all those GB’s rolled into RF. X, no harm to you but if you want the entire right side of the infield wide open again you just don’t know anything about the game other than stats. Putt Dunn on your rotesirie team where defense doesn’t matter or better yet ask someone who’s actually pitched about pitch count when their fielders don’t defend their positions. I dare you. You hear me? Ask a pitcher about replacing Davis with Dunn. And the closest to Angels 2010 WAR (4.8) that Dejesus has EVER gotten is 3.8 a full win less and even that was four full seasons ago. Since then it’s been 1.9, 2.6, 3.3 and 2.6. Angels’ first two full season produced a 3.0 and a 4.8 and no one is defending CF better than him. He has hit his stride and is going to be at the top of his game for another 3-4 years. By the time his career is over his lifetime WAR will be double of Dejesus. One thing we have to stop doing is paying a lot more and getting a lot less. Your idea of Dunn and Dejesus instead of Davis and Pagan would be more of the same.
If I remember correctly, the best the Mets have been recently is with Delgado at first with hacks like Gotay and Castillo next to him. No one complained. DeJesus has been a solid player for years now and after 10 years, Pagan FINALLY gets more than 400 ABs in a season and you’re ready to annoint him.
“Buy low. Sell high. Pagan and Davis are stocks that are going up.”
“OBP and SLG = OPS” I know, I just said that. Because adding two equals another doesn’t make the two the same. I pointed that out above. Please read more closely.
And I’ll be happy to ask a pitcher about replacing Ike with Dunn. I’ll also ask him what it’s like to replace a 119 wrc+ hitter with a 139 wrc+ hitter when the 119 wrc+ hitter only saves 8.6 runs with his range. You go ahead and ask the pitcher if he’d rather gain 11 runs on the season at a position. I dare you.
Dunn is a lousy defender. He ought to be a DH, and probably will be.
The only thing that kept Delgado from being the worst defensive first basemen in the league was Adam Dunn. As bad as Delgado was Dunn is 10 times worse, and that’s not easy.
And you don’t even have to IBB Dunn in close game contexts. Just pitch in and out and he’ll likely get him self out. He’s never had a season where he didn’t K 30% of the time.
X, Young players figure it out at different times. Pagan suffered through a serious illness and numerous injuries and finally got playing time in 2009 and after coming back from the DL played real well but he was still pressing and made a few boneheaded plays. This year he finally put it all together, the game slowed down for him and he’s got 3-4 years at the top of his game. He’s in great physical condition, can out run the ball in CF, plays hard 100% of the time and is under team control for the next 2 years. His best year was last year and again his best year was a full win better than Dejesus best year and Dejesus’ best year was 4 years ago. To pay more and get less is not a good strategy. I’ll say it again so that maybe it sinks in. Younger players get better. Dunn’s offensive skills will probably stay where they are for 4-5 years but they’re not going to get better. Davis’ will. Dunn is also 6 years older and that means he’s more likely to get hurt, something we have seen around here far to often. Older players do get hurt more often than younger players and they take longer to get back on the field too. Lastly,(and I hesitate to write this because you or someone else will probably say that I am trying to compare an over 40 league with the Major Leagues which is not what I am doing at all) I am a pitcher, albeit in an over 40 league and I know first hand how deflating it is to see my fielders fail to make a play on a ball every other team in the league makes routinely. How in certain situations I have to vacate one entire side of the plate because I can’t have the ball hit to one side of the field. How you wind up nibbling which leads to walks. How your up to 100 pitches in the 5th and bringing in your worst reliever because of all that nibbling, all those GB’s rolling into the outfield and walks. I also know how inspiring it is when someone gets an out unexpectedly, and how that makes other guys try to do the same thing. Having low stress clean innings and getting off the field and right back at ‘em is huge psychologically for your team. Even in a tie game you feel that that your going to win. Giving it away on defense with plays that should be made does exactly the opposite. One big reason the Mets team ERA was so much better this year was because they got more clean innings because they tightened the D especially on the right side. This allowed the starters to go longer keeping the worst reliever IN the pen and not burning the others out. In fact we only had 11 pitchers because of Ollie and bull pen burnout wasn’t even an issue. We gave up 100 less runs in 2010 than we did in 2009 and a large part of that was Tejada and Davis defending the right side and Pagan and Francouer in the OF. Now you do have to weigh everything out of course but one of the things you need to factor in is defense. For instance no way does Dickey pitch like he did this year with Dunn/Castillo on 1b and 2B so instead of being in every game he pitches we have to use the pen for 4 innings and probably your worst reliever too. I’ll say it again getting older, weaker defensively, adding 200 k’s and increasing the payroll to boot is what has gotten us into the mess we’re in. Continuing to do more of the same will just put us furthur into woods.
t, stop making X think so hard; but neither of u are ON YOPIC aka a deal for Prince. As I believe I was the very first to broach that acquizition last year with my proposed pkg inclusive of Maine,Pelfrey,Murphy. I certainly still believe Brews will insist upon a NAME in return based upon Milwalkee executive quotes ezxplaining the Brew crew fans will not tolerate giving their Homegrown idol away for mere future considerations. I still think it’s a matter of tinming, assume Prince is still on their roster in July & Beltran has his hoped for resurgent year as Milwalkee needs pitching and could use additional CF offense over the combined total of 5HR contyributed by 3 CF options (CAIN/DICKERSON/GOMEZ) with all 5HR belonging to GO-GO(GOMEZ) perhaps a pkg of Beltran, cash & some milb pitching options(Mejia, Holt+ Evans/Murphy for 1B) and can be combined in such a way as to benefit both teams, as neither Beltran nor Fielder, as Boras clients, should be abnticipated sighnings by their respective new clubs, Fielder’s tenure of only 3 or 4 months rental is made tolerable & acceptable by Davis’ retention(AAA reassignment?) and 2012 cementing into 1B permanently. Whether Pelfrey is building on or regressing from this 2010 season determines the viability of his inclusion. As a decently run club, It’s likely an even bet Brews already have a MiLB solution to anticpated Fielder depaerture for draft picks. While we need to do this, if for nothing else the additional pick acquired from losing Prince that we negotiated away on the Beltran contract that excludes NYM from offering arbitration that would acquire the sandwich pick we desperately have need of. As Boras is renowned for moving his clients via the market the correct assumption would be thatr neither Fielder nor Beltran will remain with the team they conclude the season with. Fielder de[parture yields potential for 2 presecond round picks while Beltran’s merely yields his new club’s pick position. typicaly a late first round as those finishing so poorly as to ‘earn’ an early selection rarely invest as much as Boras will demand for either client.
’62, Maine Pelfrey Murphy. Hmmm. Looks like it would have made sense for both clubs. I’ve also heard Davis was very good in RF but you are probably right about Boras moving his clients. Pelf has an absolute ceiling of being a top #2 but only if he develops that split and at least shows a change to lefty’s. In a year where you couldn’t possibly imagine us competing it would have made sense. (and who could have with Maine and Ollie) How do you make up for the loss of a decent starting pitcher though? I like the idea of getting picks by losing FA’s and I’m not that upset about not being able to offer arb to Beltran because at least the thought process behind signing him was correct. But yeah a year of Francouer/Davis in RF a year w/Prince and keep him or pick up a #1 and a sup. Not bad. Carlos can not really help us win this year (too many holes) and can’t get us a pick so if he comes back healthy I’d be all over trying to move him.
Sorry ’62, I got confused with the trade proposal being mentioned last year. Strike Francouer/Davis in RF from my comment. I know you have to give up something to get something but Mejia and believe it or not Holt could wind up being very valuable down the road. I especially would like to see Mejia given every chance to start here. I’m very angry with the Mets for jerking him around and possibly getting him injured too. At 20 years of age he should have been in AA for 25 starts and next year in AAA if he did well. Needed him in the bull pen give me a break. With Ollie and Maine as 2/5 of your rotation and Jacobs, GMJ, Cora and Catalanto rounding out your bench? Stupid STUpid STUPID. Excuse me. Pelf would be a big attention getter in trade conversations no doubt. He would get Boras off our ass for a few years but how do we replace him?
Beautiful. I wouldnt trade Wilpon for Fielder. Pops
Good point. But they may have some payroll flexibility for the 2012 season when Perez, Castillo, Beltran, and K-Rod are off the payroll. Still he’ll get a $100 million dollar deal.
They will certainly have payroll flexibility, but besides Prince, the following are FAs in 2012, too:
Mark Buehrle, Chris Carpenter, Ryan Dempster, Edwin Jackson, Roy Oswalt, Wandy Rodriguez, Adam Wainwright, C.J. Wilson and possibly, but very unlikely, CC Sabathia. Also, there’s an All-Star team worth of closers available, too, provided the Mets don’t think Parnell is the man for the job.
I’d give the $50 or so million in 2012 to some pitchers before Prince.
There’s a genuine basis to like Ike. Solid rookie year, excellent range defensively, really nice guy. Needs to straighten out that hitch in his swing. That’s a must.
Then there’s Prince Fielder. Great baseball guy, Cecil’s son, hits a ton. Doesn’t have Ike’s defensive skills, but he’s one of those big guys with quick hands. Here’s Prince’s batting stats:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/F/Prince-Fielder.shtml
What jumped out at me is that, by the age of 25, Prince twice had already posted an OPS in excess of 1.000 and, by age 26, he’s already hit nearly 200 homeruns. When you consider Fielder’s age, he fits in seamlessly with Wright, Reyes, Pagan, Thole, Pelfrey & Co. Its like getting Delgado five years into his 15-year dominance. If we’re going to do it, nows the time.
Having Prince at first makes it possible to have Tejada at 2nd, Reyes at short, Wright at 3rd. Called it a mega-power boost. He’s the right man at the right time. Put Beltran in right, Pagan in center, Bay in left, and carry Murphy, Evans, Duda, Santos & Turner as your bench. That’s a very deep roster.
Reyes
Pagan
Wright
Fielder
Beltran
Bay
Thole
Tejada
Pitcher
I would go to war with those guys on my everyday line-up. Combination of speed and power. If Beltran or Fielder need a breather, you have Duda & Evans to back them up. If Reyes goes on DL, move Tejada to short and platoon Murphy & Turner at 2nd base. If Wright needs a breather, Murphy was originally a 3rd baseman. Bay slumping, give Duda and Evans a quick platoon. Also, I have no issue with Omir Santos re-joining the major league roster. He’s one of the few guys that came to play in 2009.
I like Ike alot, but Fielder’s presence on the roster and in the line-up makes so much more possible.
…so says Tommy2cat.
I completely agree. There’s no doubt about it that Prince is worth Ike…if we can get that contract extension (like Johan Santana) as has been pointed out. I love Ike Davis, he’s great to watch, but we’re talking about one of the best power-hitting 1st basemen in the majors AND he’s still entering his prime age-wise.
If offense is what we need to trade for, this would make a phenomenal addition to the lineup. I Like Ike, but Prince would be Perfect.
Unless you actually believe the Mets can win the World Series in 2011, I don’t think it would make sense to trade Ike for Prince, given that we are talking about a one-year player, prior to Free Agency.
Ken -
I agree that you don’t trade Ike for Prince unless he signs a multi-year deal with the Mets. Its a workable situation, though. Im 2012, K-Rod, Ollie, Castillo & Beltran come off the books. That’s roughly 50 million that the Wilpons found in their couch cushions. Dang, we’re talking Fielder, some ace quality pitching and a bag of chips.
No, I would not.
I’d argue for keeping Ike right now also. Listen, 2011 is going to be a difficult year. Even with everyone having career years:
Reyes: .295 65 stolen bases 115 runs scored
Wright: .325 25Hr 125RBI 120 Runs 30SB
Bay: .285 30HR 125RBI 1110 Runs
Beltran: .290 30Hr 125RBIs 116runs 20SB
Davis: 28HR 105RBIS
Pagen: .305 13Hr 80RBI 100runs 45 stolen bases
Thole: .295 10Hr 65runs 85 runs scored
Pelfrey: 18-9 3.25era 220 inngs pitched
Niese: 14-7 3.75era 198 inngs pitched
Dickey: 15-9 3.50 200 inngs pitched
Even if we resign Dickey and by some miracle everyone above has a career years as stated we aren’t making the playoffs. My point is why have Davis around if we can get something for him to build on.
I’d like to remind readers that Ike Davis did play right field for the USA Olympic team and did play well in the field. I think we need to consider trading Davis next year if he continues to develop.
Duda could develop into a power first baseman to replace Davis in 2012. Power hitting lefties who can come cheap are always in demand.
Lets hope Davis continues his power development into next year. I think his strikeouts always be an issue however not so much of an issue if Davis averages 27-30Hr. 40 doubles 90 rbi’s yearly for the a good solid 8-10 years.
I think if everyone has years like you just said, we’d make the playoffs.
We have no 2nd baseman.
We need at least 2 major league ready starting pitchers.
We don’t have a closer.
Bullpen?
Bench?
The Phillie’s will score runs and have that starting pitching staff.
The Braves continue to improve every year.
The Marlins will continue to improve and their starting staff is going to be fantastic.
I just don’t see us beating any of these teams without better pitching.
Ever think that this off season didn’t even start yet, and those problems will be fixed?
and we do have a closer. K-Rod is still on the team right now, and he’ll be fully recovered from his torn ligament by spring training.
The already good and hopefully becoming very good cost controlled two way player is not the one you trade. The getting on about 32, 33 1 dimensional guy making a fortune is the one you get rid of. Ike has only had 2 years in the minors and obviously his swing was never reworked while down there. He is exactly the type of player we need more of, not less.
I think you’re way wrong. You mean with career years that you list, and one starting pitcher and 2 relievers added (Not to mention Krod who will be back next year) we don’t make the playoffs? Pops
No, that makes no sense. Ike is the real deal, all he has to do is mend his swing a little, and we have our first baseman for many years
i wouldnt do it. i think Ike will be better than an Adam LaRoche type. if he fixes his swing and does what he did in september, watch out
No on trading Ike for Prince Fielder. Fielder is older and along with a very fat F/A deal on the horizon is a HUGE man…the kind that breaks down as he ages. i’d keep Ike and would only consider trading him for a very solid starter or a combo of players, to include a stud pitching prospect.
Otherwise, let’s enjoy the kid…still haven’t seen his best.
Next year is a wash. It is the year you trade guys in their contract years, not pick them up.a This team will finish third, tops. Keep Ike, unless you can trade him for a young pitching stud who cannot break into the starting rotation for his team. Come to think of it, no team would trade a projected stud starter for Ike. First baseman are a lot easier to find.
I wouldn’t do that but I’d be willing to move Ike for Adrian Gonzalez. I just don’t trust Prince to hold up long term.
No.
Would I trade Ike Davis for Adrian Gonzalez ? Yes.
i think that such a bad trade why would u trade a young guy for and older guy and he prince has power but he cant run i will keep ike anyday ike has power
Maybe, bot only after about 4 Long Island ice teas!
Would I make that trade? No way. Prince is a heck of a player, but he’s GOING TO break down. No doubt. He’s got way too much meat on his bones and his joints will give out. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s the second coming of Mo Vaughn.
On top of that, there’s no way the Brewers would make that trade. Sure, they can’t afford Prince past 2011, but I’m positive they could get more for him than Ike Davis. Let’s be realistic here. Davis has potential, and he had a pretty good rookie season, but he’s far from established. The Mets have a history of young players that get overhyped after a good, but not great, first year. Gregg Jeffries anyone? Maybe Rico Brogna? The Brewers will have plenty of other better options from other teams to consider.
HAHAHA!! Rico Brogna! I haven’t heard that name in years!
Yikes! Don’t frighten us like that!
Lets compile a list of past met 1st baseman
Ed Kranepool
Jon Milner
Don Condenun
Dave Magadan
Lee Mazzilli (I think he played 1st for bit)
Jon Olerud
Wllie Montanez
Carlos Delgado
Richie Hebner
Hmmm with the exception of Delgado and Olerud not such a great list.
yeah we may want to hold on to Ike Davis for a bit longer
My gosh,how could you leave out my favorite “the Kong” Dave Kingman and close behind Marvelous Marb Throneberry?
WE seem to be forgetting the BEST first baseman we ever had.. KEITH HERNANDEZ!!!
prince fielder makes mo vaughn look like kate moss.
M&M’s are tasty. Lets Go J..ets! er.. I mean Mets!
honest mistake the “J” and “M” keys are really close together
gotta go… Ophrah is about to start.
Meh. Davis doesn’t hit enough to be a MLB firstbaseman. But I don’t want to break the bank on a big fatty firstbaseman either. Mo Vaughn anyone?
NO WAY. I like the Mo Vaughn comparison.
This team needs pitching and more pitching.
Spend all funds on Yu DARVISH,Ted Lilly, Rafael Soriano and Scott Downs.
Even if KRod is back it would give the Mets a great pen?
NO WAY!!!! NO HOW!!!! Ike has to stay, he is homegrown and the real deal.
Thanks for the comments everyone. Keep them coming. I do want to point out that while Prince maybe be out of shape, he is by no means old. He’s only 26. I’m not advocating that the Mets make this trade (in fact I would rather they not). But calling Prince old is not exactly justified.
interesting idea. but it has to be dependent on signing an extension, and IIRC he is a Boras guy. So, not likely, and far from cheap.
You want to lock up him on a 7/150 deal (if not more)?
unless you think he is the missing link to get the team into the playoffs in 2011 (and not many here seem to), just take the shot that he hits FA and open up the bank on him then. If, of course, Ike hasn’t already cemented the position down! And he just might, especially if he streamlines his swing. the kid has talent.
So, let Ike have a full year to develop and be evaluated, and see what happens after 2011, when A Gon and Prince should both be FAs.
The problem with that is u have to give him a contract like that or he could say he wants to be a free agent. He would most likely get paid a bit less but if u want to make the trade and keep him from going somewhere else u have to do it.
No worth it.
Gonzalez yes, but that would cost more high talent prospect, like Jon Neise along with ike to get him. We couldn’t afford to give up young pitching talent too for hitting. Not this team
Business considerations and contracts aside — i.e., just on the field worthiness — Cecil Fielder for Ike Davis AND Player X AND MAYBE Player Y. Milwaukee isn’t as naive as the speculation here on the trade assumes.
Prince Fielder has always been a highly motivated dude, totally unlike his father. Prince can run the bases much better than Ike. He also strikes out less and hits for more power. Athletically, what’s not to like?
Again, the business end of this possible deal may totally change this picture.
[...] Mets Merized Online: From Left Field: Would You Trade Ike Davis For Prince Fielder? [...]
priorities are pitching not an overweight out of shape pimples at first base. Price Fielder= Mo Vaughn+ Schreck
Pitching wins Championships not first baseman, they’re a dime a doz, is anyone watching the pitching in the playoffs?
Hasn’t anyone been paying attention? We want to trade a young excellent fielding 1st baseman who has some pop and gap power for someone who either hits a bomb or strikes out in a field known for draining the power of anyone who plays 82 games in it?
We need to be thinking Pitching, Speed, and Defense with batters who hit for high average similar to the old Herzog Cardinals. Not try to be the Yankees who walk and wait for the homerun in their home run hitters park!
Ike is young enough to be our first baseman for a very long time. And at a pretty good price!
I would rather spend the money on Pitching so we don’t need to hit homeruns by the bushell because we have a pitcher who can throw two perfect games in a season!
Exactly.
I don’t get this post.
A lot of wasted time. First Base is set for the Mets for next year, and hopefully for years to come.
There are other areas to speculate about, first base is NOT one of them.
Hey Bayonne; If you don’t get the post why don’t you just ignore it and keep yourself from showing the world how stupid you are one more time?
That is how I feel too. To take away from area’s we are good at, and going to get better at, makes no sense at all. If we could lengthen the line up with a good hitting 2B and if Beltran will move to RF we’re really only 4 pieces shy and no injuries to speak of away from competing for the Wild Card. The trick is to be able to do it without borrowing from the future.
No, but I would trade Ike Davis for Adrian Gonzalez.
But that’s not gonna happen in the real world.
You’re right, seems like he is destined for Boston anyway. There aren’t many 1B I would trade Ike for. He is cheap, productive and a fan favorite. There is no need to trade him at this point.
I really can’t even understand this type of discussion or this type of post. Even if the post is for fun, why?
I can see debate about moving homegrown talent after many years of falling short no matter which side of the fence you’re on in regards to Reyes and Wright.
But this type of talk about moving a guy who has the best rookie start for the Mets since Daryl Strawberry just strikes me as silly and really downright ungrateful. Almost as bad or worse than anything that is complained about Jeff Wilpon by these same people.
It would really be the position players equivilent to the Kazmir trade.
OMG are you serious? You are comparing Prince Fielder to Victor Zambrano? Gimme some of that stuff you and bayonne are drinking.
Are you saying that you dont view Prince Fielder for Ike Davis as an upgrade? Especially in the power department?
Do you not believe that the Mets need an upgrade in power when their slugging and homeruns are on par with teams like the Pirates and Astros? Instead of ranking at the bottom, with Fielder alone the Mets would have been in the top ten in HR last season. Offensively Fielder is a difference maker like Tex, A-Gon, Pojols, etc. No matter how good Ike is or becomes he’ll never be a difference maker.
How do you know he will never be a difference maker? Never?
How much of a difference maker is Prince Fielder with Milwaukee compared to what Ryan Braun gives them as well? Is Prince better defensively?
If I mention I’m afraid of his weight and him breaking down than I’m giving credibility to this type of scenario, which I’m not.
I can Ike Davis having 30 HR seasons in this park.
So any good rookie that has a future is fair game? A lot of careers have come here and died recently. Not saying that would happen to Fielder but in the big picture, I’d rather keep a homeboy like Ike Davis and make the necessary changes around him then include him in any changes.
And I think the powers that be that run the Mets will be thinking the same way I am.
You’re just wasting your time.
Ike and the money he saves you, spent somewhere else (pitching) is better than Fielder by himself. That’s what I’m saying.
Mets will NEVER lead the league in HRs until they bring in the fences and if they ever do they will probably also lead the league in strikeouts which is not worth the trade off now will work in CitiField!
I don’t care if the Mets lead the league in homeruns, I want them to lead the lead in Wins…..which is not always one and the same.
No, I would not trade Ike Davis for Prince Fielder.
The point of the post was to gauge Mets’ fans opinions on whether they would sacrifice some up and coming talent for a proven power hitter or stay put. I consider myself in the Ike camp but wanted to see what other fans thought. I believe it’s a valid discussion whether you do or not.
It is a very valid discussion, and I hope you post more stuff like this. Let those who dont like it keep their rudeness to themselves and just talk about GMs for rhe next three weeks. I’d rather have creative discussions about every position on the team, no untouchables. People want to trade Wright and yet the same people want to keep Davis? Weird.
Bayonne you can’t understand anything that is at a higher level than Sesame Street. Thanks for coming by and being stupid again. Its always great to know that no matter how bad a day one has, its really not so bad because there’s someone like you out there who is clueless in all regards.
Okay, Oscar the Grouch
I’m switching over to the Electric Company does it exist anymore?
I’m 50/50 on this being that Davis is so young and has so much potential to be the power threat we need in our line up but who’s to say he will blossom which I would love and hope he does but if this new GM wants us to be ready to contend next year then I say make the trade, because as much as I love Davis if the GM does plan on having us be contenders next year we need that immediate power threat in the line up right now not 2 or 3 years down the line from now. I also believe the new GM should explore the options in trading for pitchers such as Greinke or Zambrano because ( just two names off the top of my head ) as I read in a previous blog our new GM shouldn’t wait and see what happens with Santana and should go out and try and acquire a new ACE.
Keep Ike and spend the dough you save on quality starting pitching.
Pete, hypothetically, trade Ike, Pagan, Mejia and like a James Fuller or someone for Greinke and DeJesus. If the Royals would do that, and you can sign Dunn for four years/$40 million, would you do that? How does that sound to you?
I like Greinke, but I don’t want to swap Ike’s superb defense for Dunn at first for four years. I couldn’t stomach watching that. I am sure the Mets have what it takes to get Greinke without trading Ike. If the Mets are ever going to be a pennant contender they must be built on pitching AND defense.
Pete, that’s fair. I disagree, though. You’re right about the defense, but Dunn was much improved this year, and he creates more runs offensively over Ike than Ike saves defensively over Dunn. And defense at first base isn’t terribly important, which is why I’d trade Ike before Tejada, believe it or not.
Just one man’s opinion, though.
Duda very much reminds me of Adam Dunn at the plate. I think that guy could hit 30 homers but can he hit over 250.
If the Mets play Duda regularly, it’s 50-50 he’ll hit 25 homers in a season before Ike hits another triple or an inside-the-park homer at Citi.
So many hitters have inside the park homeruns too……….reading your comments about Davis are as silly as the trade Wright comments.
Tug, my expectation is that because of his lack of speed on the basepaths, Ike will likely not hit an inside-the-park homer. He could get one but the odds are decidedly against it.
To your point: the post had nothing to do with other hitters.
Keep Ike, get a good pitcher and maybe Crawford from the Tampa Bay team, we should keep the young blood…look how teams like Texas, Tampa Bay, Colorado are doing with their young talent…we don’t need a championship base on getting washed up players and possible prima donnas, we need to develop what we have…let’s not give other teams our talents…
This is exactly the way we should have been doing things all along. Washed up prima donna’s is right. One thing I just read that makes me sick to my stomach is that Baeball America is about to name Mike Trout a CFer from NJ as the #1 prospect in all of the Minor Leagues. Mike trout’s scouting report reads a little bit like a RH Lenny Dykstra. He was drafted by the Angels with the Yankees pick surrendered for Teixeira (thank God the yankees didn’t get him) but he could have been taken with our pick right before which we gave up for K-Rod. Now sometimes it makes perfect sense to sign a free agent (glaring need 2 way player in his prime, Ace pitcher or something) but we gave up the pick for a closer. A guy who gets 3 outs every 3rd game AND we put ourselves in a hole with the payroll something like 54 million over 4 years with an easy to reach option that we are now trying to wiggle out of. Prospects are not sure things but they are a very important part of building a championship team. The more you have, the better your chances of having an in house solution you can plan form ahead of time. There is no way of knowing who we would have drafted that year (another problem) but I would feel a lot more confident about the future if we had the #1 prospect in all of baseball in our minor league system. Giving away our #1 every year is going to make the rebuilding so much more difficult.
Tagee it all comes down to where you think your team is at.
2006 convinced Omar that we were just one or two players away from winning now. In fact most people were convinced of that which is why they are so POed that we didn’t even make the playoffs the past two years.
If you really believe you are that close to the playoffs then those draft picks are not as valuable as getting the guy who gets you to the promised land now!
If your a team like the Marlins or Pirates who are not close then YES the draft picks are way more important than that FA signing. I personally hate for my team to play WIN NOW. It is usually predicated on the wrong assumption that your one player away because of something you did the year before. Yet in most cases you will not get the same performance as you did the year before from everyone and injuries is usually the reason! (Just look at the last two seasons here!)
There are great players throughout the draft and you can sign those FAs when you think your close provided you are very good at scouting and evaluating the talent that is there when you do pick!
Our drafting problems have a lot less to do with loosing picks as they have to do with our unwillingness to sign picks to big money contracts. And I’m not sold you really need to do that either!
I hear you Metsie. I can’t remember who it was but some NY GM (I think maybe the Knicks) put it best. He said “when you think your one player away that’s when your about to make a mistake.” This team has been one player away for 25 years and of all the big money signings, resignings and trades only 1 has been full value for the entire contract. Piazza. Everyone else has lost significant time due to injury or under performed their contract or both. Every single one. The draft and Int’l free agency allow you to pick up large quantities of prospects. If you have good scouts and good development people and you bring your prospects up when they are ready and fully developed your patience will be rewarded. An owner and GM must always be looking toward the future instead of concentrating only on THIS YEAR. No matter how things looked in 2006 not one person would have expected El Duque, Valentin, Alou and Pedro to be the way forward. For us to have gone for it by borrowing against the future by spending our draft choices recklessly is why we are where we are. No different than Murray/Bonilla/Coleman in the 90′s or Alomar/Vaughn/Burnitz in the early 2000′s. I really hope this is what Jeff meant when he talked about remembering the past.
Well your going to make a mistake if all you get is one player! The rule to this is if your one player away, Get TWO!
Two players away, Get FOUR! Three Player’s away you need to find some youth to promote! Your not close and shouldn’t be thinking Win Now!
Our problem was we were 3 or 4 players away when we went after Pedro and Beltran. We had to do that because the previous GM just left the young cubbard bare. Then the next year we went after Delgado. If you want to buy a team to win quickly you have to do the buying all in the same year the way the Yankees did. Bring up your core, Fill in the rest with Top FA Talent. Then let SOME go when their contract is up or trade them and go get the newest best whatever. This way you gain a high draft pick for the guy you didn’t sign despite losing one to the new signing. Then you can maintain not only your draft but keep replacing FAs who are no longer worth giving those monster contracts to!
A trade like this is only speculation at this point and while Prince Fielder’s awesome power would look good in our lineup there is no way I would trade Ike Davis at this point. While Ike struggled at times, he finished strong which is a good sign considering that this was the first full MLB season he has played. Ike like many rookies started off with a bang but then the pitchers began to catch up with him. No doubt he made the adjustment and became more than just a threat. His “lower” salary helps to save money for a F.A. pitcher this coming winter and keeps the chemistry that he helped create. The only knock I have with Prince Fielder is his weigh which h seems to carry well at this point. A guy with his power healthy legs and unfortunately a knee injury for aguy that big could create a nightmare for his career…..P A S S
If you look at the chart of Ike’s struggles you also see he struggled when everyone else struggled, and when they started hitting, so did he!
Never underestimate the power of protection in the lineup!
You can’t knoch the crap out of the ball if they don’t give you a pitch to hit and let them pitch around you! Which IMO is what happened to Ike. They could risk walking him because neiother Wright or Beltran were doing a thing with the bat. Once Beltran started hitting and Ike started realizing he needs to fight with two strikes on him not get fussy at the plate, Ike started hitting again.
With Beltran and Bay in the lineup and hitting like themselves, both Wright and Ike will hit consistently as well.
And Metsie, Ike hit 6th a lot of the time. With a runners on Ike, a lefty usually with the platoon advantage, having the next 3 hitters in the line up (Thole, Tejada and the pitcher) not being capable of driving the ball who are you gonna pitch too. I like Thole. He would make a very good 1/2 of a catching tandem but his forte is getting on base. Tejada too but in 2010 at 20 years of age was just too physically immature to be up here. Lot’s of times what you are able to do is predicated on what the guy in front and behind you can do. If we were able to lengthen the line up with even a league average RFer and 2B Ike would have had a lot more chances. Having Francouer, Feliciano, Thole and Tejada batting behind him took some of those away but over all I like what I saw.
Yeah I agree totally. Ike will hit when the people around him hit! Ike would probably be better in the 5th spot with Bay behind protecting him.
Reyes (Switch)
Pagan (Switch)
Wright (Right)
Beltran (Switch)
Davis (Left)
Bay (Right)
Thole (Left)
and most probably Tejada unless they sign someone (Right)
If you like the righty/lefty stuff that would be hard to deal with. If you don’t you could swap Davis and Wright or Bay.
That works well only if Beltran hits more like September than August though.
From the way things look, this might be the opening day lineup we see. This is a lineup based on potential. If you simply look at stats for these guys and what they are capable of, you’d think the Mets have an incredible team. Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Bay coupled with the solid years of Pagan and Davis. WOW! But will everyone be able to be consistent at the same time in the main issue not to mention the starting pitching. Will the new GM be content with the potential of this team or will we see sweeping changes. Stay tuned this offseason.
It’s funny how the questions we have for next year are the same questions we had going into this year!
My guess is a new GM is going to change the look of that lineup in some way. How I don’t know.
Still need pitching though…
[...] Mets Merized Online: From Left Field: Would You Trade Ike Davis For Prince Fielder? [...]