24
2010
Gary Matthews Beating Out Pagan For CF Job, So Lets Trade Him?
An article by 
When the Mets traded reliever Brian Stokes in exchange for outfielder Gary Matthews Jr., the move was met with much skepticism.
The original idea was to back up Angel Pagan who would take over in centerfield during Carlos Beltran’s absence, but Omar Minaya said right from the start that Matthews would be in the mix for opening day centerfielder, and a day laster Jerry Manuel added that he’d use Matthews in the leadoff spot.
This morning I took a long look at their spring stats and now I’m wondering if Matthews has already done enough to wrestle the opening day assignment away from Angel Pagan.
Gary Matthews Jr.
.344 BA – .417 OBP – .688 SLG – 32 AB – 11 H – 6 XBH
Angel Pagan
.212 BA – .278 OBP - .364 SLG – 33 AB – 7 H – 3 XBH
The other day on our site, I couldn’t help but notice a huge debate about spring training stats and their relevance. It seems you have one side that completely disregards spring performance, and then the other side which does believe spring performance is the deciding factor in most competitions for a particular spot or role.
I for one believe spring statistics matter. I believe it was Parnell’s performance last year that won him a job, just as I believe Mejia will do the same this season. And while many believe Murphy has a divine hold on the first base job, I’m not buying it. When you rank 29 out of 30 in slugging among all first baseman, you shouldn’t have a lock on anything.
Going back to the Pagan/Matthews debate, it does appear like Matthews has done more to claim the CF assignment than Pagan has, and when you add in the experience that GMJ brings to the table, how can you dismiss him as a better option?
This morning, Joel Sherman of the New York Post hinted that the Mets are shopping Matthews and that the Reds could be a possibility, echoing what Mike Francesa said not too long ago. Of course this will no doubt unleash a volley of Harang and Arroyo to the Mets blog posts as if the Reds would simply hand over one of their top pitchers for Matthews and another player Mets fans hate and assume would be loved by the Reds.
I don’t believe GMJ will be traded, although trading their best performing outfielder this spring, would be very typical and unsurprising for the Mets. And if he were to be traded to the Reds, I’m sure it will be for the ever so popular PTBNL (player to be named later) which will ultimately be a “B” or “C” level prospect. Great…
As for the very likely event that Matthews sticks around, time will decide if he beats out Pagan, but so far it looks like time is on GMJ’s side.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
Went to my first Mets game, a Mayors Trophy game at Shea, in '73. We beat the Yankees 8-4 and I was hooked. I marched in two Banner Day parades, and before the Grand Slam single, there was the "Hendu Can Do" grand slam - I was there. I've collected Mets memorabilia all my life and started Mets Merized Online to feed my addiction.
26 Comments + Add Comment
Recent Comments
- Bayonne Mets Fan: on Series Preview: Mets @ Pirates: Bobby Ojeda again on pre game ripping...
- Petey Pete: on On The Road With Petey Pete: New Britain, CT & The Binghamton Mets: Well I made it, I'm sitting in...
- stick: on Enough Is Enough, Send Ike Down Already: and making those simplifications/adjustments are exactly the...
- DaveUpstateNY: on How Young And Mejia Factor In Mets Starting Rotation Plans: "...things will drastically change in the coming...
- Des: on Enough Is Enough, Send Ike Down Already: Metsie -- You make an interesting proposition...
MMO Live Chat
Recommended Links
Write Your Own Mets Post
Advertisement
Advertisement
We Appreciate Your Help
Affordable Graphic Design
I am one of those who thinks ST stats don’t matter in the slightest, but I have no evidence.
Obviously, a great ST can and often is the difference in whether or not a questionable player or prospect makes the team.
As soon as someone furnishes any stats at all showing a great spring translates more often than not into a great season, I’ll buy into this. The bottom line is that the games don’t count. Therefore players really feel no pressure. Given BAs and performances in ST, why are we not promoting Chris Carter?
And think about this: does any single great month tell us how a player will do for the season? Sure, we are happy to have a great April or August from an everyday player b/c it matters. March baseball–not so much.
Hey,
Adding Gary Matthews Jr. and Mike Jacobs to the starting lineup is a fresh start and erases the painful memory of 2009 even more. I’m all for it. Let Pagan and Murphy add depth to the bench.
i believe putting GMJ in will make this lineup more productive, but i dont see how jacobs can make this a better lineup. Murph is not batting well this spring, but i dont see that affecting his chances at the starting first base job. Murph is a lock and i think he is a better hitter all around then jacobs. Jake has power but other than that, he doesnt do much.
The big difference here is that Mike Jacobs has several years of Major League experience on his resume whereas Murphy does not. I would start Jacobs, you can always fall back to Murphy.
People who want Murphy to start are hoping for him to become something he has not become yet.
I think the odds are better for Mike Jacobs to perform somewhere around his estimated 5-year 162 game avg of .254 29 HRs, as indicated by Baseball Reference:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jacobmi02.shtml
Yes, he does and that experience has shown us that he cannot hit. Just pops one now and then. Murphy, on the other hand, is not a starting major league player. It is a really tough choice. This team is a joke. Davis is 23. He is probably better than both of them right this minute. I will take Davis and his learning curve over these clowns any time.
Jdon, in an era when NY fans were disinclined to eat their young u might certainly have a point; but what do u anticipate as a reaction should an untested rookie go 0fer weeks. There certainly wasn’t a lot of leeway/learning curve grace period alotted to F-Mart in ’09! I’m one of these damned thoughtful fans that doesn’t have a preset evaluation concept re. ST #s. I’ve always preferred my eyes on the field than to the boxscores. I’ve been fortunate enough to have seen most every game televised on SNY game this Spring. While Ike has certainly been impressive overall, he just as certainly appeared overmatched by topnotch major league caliber breaking pitches in his one GS. The evaluation difficulty comes when considering most all of Davis’,Pridie’s,Carter’s,F-Mart’s heroics have come late in games. You know those times when opposing pitchers are wearing football jersey #s & regular MLB pitchers are on the first tee. Ostensibly, these heroics have not come off MLB quality pitching; but true peer MILB pitching.
While the Mets have acted like there was a competition at both 1B and CF they obviously do not know what a competition means. With both of those positions being held warm then why not go with the hot-hand out of Spring Training? Not that there is going to be that big of a difference between Carter, Jacobs, or Murphy at 1B or Matthews or Pagan in CF but a competition is a competiiton and with all things considered they should go with whomever performs the best leading into the regular season. It sends a message that you will actually be rewarded for doing your job and performing well and would seem to put the best team possible on the field in the early goings.
When you throw the word “competition” out there then Spring Training stats have to be taken into consideration.
Hey it looks like Takahashi is beating out Santana for the role of Ace. If spring training stats matter we have to apply it across the board and give Takahashi the role he’s won or is there a threshold that one reaches when one is untouchable and what random level is that set at?
Are Perez and Maine untouchable in their spots because they’ve both won 15 games in a season? Is Pelfrey untouchable because he was a highly touted first round draft pick that and has potential?
I hope most people can separate the guys like Santana, Reyes, Wright, Bay, and Rodriguez in that obviously it does not matter what they do in Spring Training there jobs are quite safe. They are already proven players. Those guys are not in a competition, already know their place, and go about getting ready for the season in their own way.
Again, when the word “competition” is thrown about what else are you going to look other than stats, baseball intellect, and I guess intangibles?
At what level do you reach the stage of “proven”? I don’t think that standard has been established exactly and anyone who thinks that Pagan or Murphy were actually in a competition they could lose is sadly mistaken.
“what else are you going to look other than stats, baseball intellect, and I guess intangibles?”
I would assume ability. The reason Santana’s job is locked up is because we know he has more ability than those who could take his spot. The Mets believe and I would agree, that Pagan is a better player that Mathews Jr. regardless of what the numbers in spring say, just the same way Santana is better than Takahashi despite what the numbers say. The same goes for Murphy over Jacobs.
“At what level do you reach the stage of “proven”?”
Way beyond anything Daniel Murphy or Angel Pagan has proven on the field of play. To say Murphy and/or Pagan are better than their supposed competition this spring is a bit of a reach without much, if anything, to base such a statement on.
“To say Murphy and/or Pagan are better than their supposed competition this spring is a bit of a reach without much, if anything, to base such a statement on.”
It’s based on raw ability, as assessed by professional scouts through out baseball, that’s why there never was a real competition. The Mets believe Murphy and Pagan are better, therefore the stats over 40 abs during the spring mean nothing. Mathews Jr. and Jacobs were just brought in for depth and in case of a spring injury, they were never in competition for the job, the team just tells the media that as a courtesy to the player. All teams do this, every year and the only people who get upset about guys like Mike Jacobs not winning the job based on 40 abs in spring are people who were naive enough to think there was ever a competition or that they are a better judge of talent than professional scouts for a billion dollar organization.
“Way beyond anything Daniel Murphy or Angel Pagan has proven on the field of play.”
That’s not an answer, at what level is it set? Do you have to be an all-star before you’re proven? Because all the players you mentioned before as “proven” are all-stars.
“It’s based on raw ability, as assessed by professional scouts through out baseball”
If that is the case then we are not talking about the same Daniel Murphy on the Mets as a scout will tell you that Murphy does not have a position that he can play adequately defensively and the only place you can try and hide him is at 1B and he will never hit enough to justify being a corner infielder. If he brought anything to the table such as an above average defense, power, speed, or high AVG and OBP, etc. then maybe it could be justified but he is not that kind of player nor is he projected to ever become that player. He is, again, holding the position warm until Ike Davis is ready later this year or next. There is nothing wrong in giving the guy who played the best the job considering Murphy has done nothing to warrant a “hold” on the 1B position.
Angel Pagan has raw talent without a doubt but he is the same guy he has always been and that is at the very best a 4th OF. Judging him based off of 3 good months in a lost 2009 season is foolish especially considering how exposed he became defensively and fundamentally at times due to playing everyday.
Like I have already said there probably is not that big of a difference between Carter, Jacobs, or Murphy at 1B or Matthews or Pagan in CF in the long-run for different reasons.
The point is that considering both 1B and CF are being held warm then why not go with the player that played the best in the supposed “competition” to start the season as neither Murphy or Pagan has done anything to “earn” their spot in the lineup. Beltran will be back in CF, obviously, and Davis will be at 1B sooner rather than later and with there hardly being any difference in the players curremtly vying for the two open positions then they should reward the player who performed the best overall.
Oh and proven means when a front office and/or manager can look at their/his roster and feel comfortable in penciling in a guy into a position/lineup either everyday or in a proven platoon situation. You do not have to be an all-star to be a proven player as there are plenty of players that fit the mold of proven that have not and never will be all-star type players.
And to beat the dead-horse further the reason you give the job to the hot-hands of the supposed competition out of Spring Training is to hopefully get that performance to carry over into the early part of the season while waiting for Beltran to return and if whomever is at 1B fails then you still have the hard-working Murphy around and they could always decide to go get Davis if they deem him ready.
Joe, don’t fall in to the small-sample-size trap that the Mets front office so often falls into.
You’re really going to disregard the 1200+ terrible plate appearances by GMJ over the last 3 seasons because of 32 spring training at-bats? You realize 32 at-bats is the equivalent of 6-7 games right?
AYYYYYYYYYYYY-MEN!
You are absolutely correct. GMJ isnt evena medicore player he is a TERRIBLE player. He had one flucky year and every other second of his professional sports career he has been a 5th OF at best. he isnt good defensivley and is 35 years old. I dont think this is even up for discussion. I say cut him loose asap and if some silly team is going to give us soemthing for him i say go for it.
In fact…I think it would be typical Mets to let him play CF disregarding his previous uslessness.
If Spring stats shouldn’t or don’t really count, then young players would never win jobs. Each team would have veterans who’d have jobs based off last seasons statline.
It’s ludicrous to think that ST doesn’t matter. When a team wins 72 games sT better matter. Performance should be rewarded. I think GMJ has proven that he should win the job. He’s got a good arm. He’s hit well. He’s played the field well. People keep critiquing this guy…Would anyone rather have Cory Sullivan back?
As for Murph vs. Jacobs? It’s going to go to the wire…I’ll say Murphy will win because for some reason the Met decision makers are in love with the kid…
I agree and it is not that I really want Carter or Jacobs to win the job over Murphy or Matthews to win the job over Pagan but rather whomever performs the best should win the job and if that turns out to be any of the players mentioned then so be it as at least they would have earned it. There is simply no reason not to go with the hot-hand out of Spring Training considering the overall out look of those positions in the long-run.
Within a years time all of the players mentioned in this discussion will be afterthoughts concerning 1B and much, much sooner concerning CF.
Mr. Llyod,
What does statistically significant mean then?
Just note the spring training statistics of the guys you want to get from the Reds
Harangue 6.1 IP 5.68 ERA 10 H 4 R
Arroyo 13.2 IP 5.27 ERA 14 H 8 R
I’m not judging on counting or discounting spring training. But based on their ridiculous salaries, why would you want either one.
Yeah, why would u want harang or arroyo when we have figueroa on the team.. and we better don’t let him go to japan, we’ll be losing a 15 game winner..
Because they’re both better than Pelfrey, Maine, and Perez. Ohh and that loser Figgy.
I’m OK with either Pagan or GM playing center until Beltran returns. If you going to trade one way, send the one that brings the most in return.
I’m one Mets fan who likes both Angel and Gary. I’d hate to choose between them at this time. I don’t feel that 30-35 times at bat amount to much, certainly not making critical decisions.
I keep reading that Angel doesn’t have good baseball instincts, that he often doesn’t get good jumps on balls. When I’ve seen him in the outfield he’s been great, often an imitation of Carlos Beltran. Right now, I’d hate to lose him.
I don’t know enough about Gary’s current skills but have read that he’s not a good clubhouse presence. Is this really true? When I’ve seen him interviewed, he’s been personable and insightful. Maybe fans just have to trust their own instincts. Mine have yet to be concluded.
Go with the hot hand. Reward performance. Let the quick starter give some dynamism to your lineup and guess what, we just might win some games actually early in the season. Let the slow starter sit on the bench and feel the pressure to perform. If the hot hand slows down and the other guy picks up, all it takes is a pencil stroke on the linuep card to make the change. What’s the big decision? Go with the guy who is getting the job done. That means the season starts with GMJ and Chris Carter. Pagan and Jacobs should be on the bench and Murphy should be in AAA to learn to play baseball. It’s not a tough decision.