25
2012
Sandy Alderson Is To The Wilpons, What Lee Iacocca Was To Chrysler
An article by 
Mike Vaccaro lays out a solid argument in this morning’s New York Post, about why there is so much distrust between the fans and the team. In dissecting the causes for this growing schism in Mets Nation, he concludes that it all boils down to the Mets wanting to have it both ways..
As negotiations with David Wright and R.A. Dickey continue to meander, it was revealed this week the cheapest opening day ticket for April 1, when the Mets host the Padres, will be $63. If that sounds absurdly expensive, it should: Two days later, when those same teams play the second game of the season at Citi Field, those $63 “promenade reserved” tickets can be had for $15.
If this sounds absurdly tone-deaf … well, of course it is. Because it goes to the very dichotomy that will forever haunt the Mets: On the one hand, they want to play the big-market bully whenever it benefits them. That means charging Broadway-level prices for Opening Day, for Yankees games, for high-profile games. That means remembering the dateline for their games remains “New York,” and paying for the privilege.
But on the other, they want to squeeze themselves into a shell, camouflaging their own spending habits behind terms like “fiscally sound” and “responsible.” The Wilpons keep insisting they are not a team in financial ruin, they are stronger now than they were two years ago, that it is unfair to label them unnecessarily thrifty. And insist the budget they are imposing for themselves is good for them, for their future.
Vaccaro is correct. You also have a few fans that also like their bread buttered on both sides as well. Those who would believe that Sandy Alderson is here with a plan on team-building that is based on his Moneyball philosophy – finding undervalued assets as opposed to spending at market rates to fill needs.
However, at the same time they blame Wilpon for slashing payroll to $100 million. The first words out of Alderson’s mouth when he took over was that the payroll was too high, and perhaps it was, so it should have come as no surprise what was coming next.
Let me explain it another way…
If Madoff never happened, would Alderson have come here and kept payroll at the $140 million range?
If Madoff never happened, would Alderson have gone after free agents like Prince Fielder or Josh Hamilton?
If Madoff never happened, would Jose Reyes still be a Blue Jay or a Met with a six year, $106MM contract?
You can’t applaud the new philosophy, and then when it unravels blame the owners for not spending. The entire philosophy in it’s scope and entirety is based predominantly upon “not spending”.
On the other hand, you can’t say we need to get rid of the Wilpons for ruining the team by making bad decisions, and then applaud the hirings of Alderson, Ricciardi and DePodesta and saying the team now has a bright future. Which one is it?
The timing for the Wilpons to raise ticket prices so dramatically was bad. On that we can all agree. But they are operating a business that desperately needs to turn a profit. As I told a few who were complaining on Twitter before the weekend: Whether the Mets charge $30 dollars for Opening Day Tickets or $63 dollars, they will still get a packed house. If this was your business would you handle it any different? Did Capitalism in America suddenly die while I was asleep?
The Mets’ credibility on a variety of team issues is at an all-time low in my opinion. There is very little the owners or the front office can say that isn’t scrutinized or looked down upon. A cloud of mistrust hangs over the heads iof both ownership and management.
The only way to get past these problems is to win…
The only way to win is to improve the product on the field…
Winning requires more spending and can’t be done with prospects alone, despite rumors to the contrary. Just ask the Pittsburgh Pirates and Kansas City Royals.
You can’t spend what you don’t have. Even with all the slashing the Mets still lost about $20 million last season. It was a huge improvement over consecutive years of $70 million dollar losses, but still not where they need to be.
Raising ticket prices for one game – that in all likelihood will be a sell-out anyway – puts an extra $3 million into the pot. It helps pay for that outfielder we so desperately need. There’s a cost for winning and it doesn’t come cheap.
Alderson and Wilpon are a tag-team as ordained by His Holiness, Bud Selig. You can’t blame one without blaming the other. They may seem like two distinct entities to the casual observer, but the truth is they are both running on parallel circuits.
The Mets were in a fight for their fiscal lives, but things are getting better as I said they would. The best case scenario now would be:
1. A complete return to profitability.
2. Alderson then stepping aside after a job well done (from the Wilpons point of view).
3. A new GM puts the team back on a philosophy of winning, rather than a philosophy of cost-cutting.
Nobody knows what will happen in the future, but I can assure you that Alderson will always be looked upon as “The Man Who Saved The Wilponian Empire”. That’s the title of an e-book I’m working on for release in the fall of 2013.
Alderson is to the Wilpons, what Lee Iacocca was to Chrysler.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 23 | 18 | .561 | - |
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| Phillies | 20 | 22 | .476 | 3.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 23 | .410 | 6.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 31 | .262 | 12.5 |
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Winning with prospects alone is difficult, but not impossible (the Rays are a prime example, as are the A’s). The idea is to build up a strong farm on all levels, and then complement these home grown players with reasonable free agent signings. This is a process that will take some time, considering how godawful the Mets farm was when Alderson got here. Eventually, however, the Mets will establish a strong, home grown core, with more prospects and depth waiting in a fully loaded minor league system. Then, and only then, is it time to go spend big in free agency, to complement the cheaper, home grown players.
While the Mets farm system was far from the best in the game when Minaya departed, it also wasn’t the worst. Look at the list of players signed and developed under MInaya either as bona fide ML players or prospects: Ike Davis, Jon Neise, Reuben Tejeda, Daniel Murphy, Dillon Gee, Kirk Newuienhuis, Bobby Parnell, Mike Pelfrey, Jennry Mejia, Matt Harvey, Wilmer Flores, Jeruys Familia, among others. Some of them have disappointed but some have been better than expected as well. Alderson did not inherit a totally barren farm system when he was hired.
I love a good ol’ false dichotomy fallacy. Here is my perspective on the last three years. I am ticked that the Wilpons leveraged themselves so thin that any faulter would put them into a tailspin. Second I am ticked at Bud Selig for allowing the Wilpons to accumulate such debt against the team. I was also ticked at how the baseball operations were being run in Omar’s later years. The Wilpon’s financial folly opened the door for riding the team of bad contracts on under-performing players. I was also pleased at the idea of building more depth to a team that has desperately needed it. I was also pleased at the concept of building a stronger minor league system. Now these were all ideas or “plans” to rebuild this team while rebuilding the Wilpons financial footing. The truth is Sandy has done little building has lived off the minors system that Omar built. I am not happy with his performance to this point. So in the end I am unhappy with the Wilpons, Selig, Sandy but all for different reasons and to my knowledge there is no reason Sandy has not been able to be creative and bolster the minors and provide greater depth.
Yes, thank you Omar for leaving SA with all those all star players you drafted and that stocked farm system that has one legitimate hitting prospect in it.
Ray, without the players developed under Omar’s tenure who would be on the team. I am not saying that these guys are All-stars but are merely keeping the team afloat. I am not an Omar is god guy and in fact I was glad to see him go but to ignore the impact of the players drafted and developed under him would be a mistake.
Nathan, in 6 years Omar has left us 3 players with promise in Ike, Niese and Harvey One stinking hitting prospect in the whole system. I would say that is a pathetic performance. The best pitching prospect was brought in by SA. This is a guy who was supposed to be a super great judge of talent.
Ray, I suppose that depends on your interpretation of promise. Murph, Tejada, and Parnell. Not to mention the guys who are barely holding their positions or were traded away. In two years Alderson has brought in Nimmo who is too fresh to tell and Wheeler so in two years one good prospect so far. I am sure more will come along to contribute but my point remains. Without the team Omar left behind Alderson would be in serious do-do. This team may only be capable of fourth place but has been competitive enough to hold the team afloat through the gutting. If we were as dismal as the Astros the Wilpons would have probably been forced to sell.
You make some good points Nathan, there is some serviceable major league talent there but others have done far more with far less.
Oh yeah, no doubt. More has been done with less talent and less money; however, we as Mets fans rarely see this type of team. I am often confused when I was watching these past few years as to why they can’t stop losing. This may seem odd and some guys will inevitably through stats at me to prove how much we sucked but I didn’t see it. I see teams like the Giants win the World Series and I say to myself I think we have more talent on our team, or at least comparable. Anyway have a cool Sunday manno.
u do the same. I enjoyed the conversation.
The team Omar left us with vs. the team Sandy has put together? Why don’t we choose between ointment and suppositories? Omar was short sighted on many fronts, but we tend to forget that he assembled a cast who got to the doorstep within 18 months of the first pitch thrown in his tenure… It was things like hoping lighting in a bottle would last long with guys like Valentin, Tatis, Alou, etc. that would eventually be his undoing on the field. That along with waiting 3 years for Duaner Sanchez to return to health and save his bullpen was another error.
Sandy has done nothing to date except work to keep Fred, Saul and Dopey afloat and appease the idiot in charge in the commissioner’s office. Anyone who thinks he was bought in here to actually improve a baseball team is at best naïve and at worst, mind-numbingly stupid. He’s not here to execute any sort of plan or philosophy…
>>It was things like hoping lighting in a bottle would last long with guys like Valentin, Tatis, Alou, etc. that would eventually be his undoing on the field. That along with waiting 3 years for Duaner Sanchez to return to health and save his bullpen was another error.
A big part of that was the fact that the met farm system gave Omar no option but to resign those guys..
If Omar inherited the system he left, we would have Tejada at 2B in 2007….not Valentin…not Castillo…
We would have Duda in LF in 2007…not Alou…
Elliott, I apologize for any misunderstandings my my comment. I was not attempting to discern the differences of Omar and Sandy’s tenure. I only alluded to Omar as way to illustrate how little Sandy has done in his tenure. Omar was a different GM with a different calling. I too was frustrated by Omar’s lack of foresight and propensity to sign aging players to large contracts. However much I may have tired of Omar though I cannot stress enough how frustrating it is to have Sandy doing so little. I would feel differently if he had handled this years draft better or if he had addressed at least one of the teams needs during the summer.
You know Elliot you brought what could pehaps be the ONE thing that undid Omar….
Letting Sanchez take that cab in Miami.
If not for that accident who knows how 2006 would have turned out.
It was also that accident that forced us to trade Sanchez and who did we get out of it?
Ollie Perez!
If he never gets hurt, If he is there to help the Bullpen in 2007 and 2008….
Sandy might not even be here right now!
Trying to nail down the one thing is a difficult proposition. Sanchez going down or the Nady trade. Either of those things could have turned out differently but that kind of reasoning could be applied to Phillips as well. I prefer to look at what Omar did right and what he did wrong as the lessons to be learned. The taxi accident was a freak thing.
The Nady trade was a direct result of the Sanchez accident.
Not saying it’s an excuse for Omar but it is the event that seems to have cost him the most!
Bay wasn’t here long enough to hurt him….
Perez would not have been here.
Nady probably plays the OF and we don’t sign Alou…
Think about all the moves that people point to as mistakes and most of them start off with that first Sanchez domino falling over.
Ray, there would be no Wheeler without Beltran. Alderson also got cornerstones in Wright and Reyes, and two-thirds of a great outfield in Beltran and Pagan. You aren’t even attempting to be fair or objective. It’s not that difficult if you try.
Shame on me, Omar also left him all five of his starters; Johan, Dickey, Niese, Harvey and Gee. But maybe you’re right, Alderson didn’t get anything but a roster and farm devoid of talent.
Harry, If you will go back, you will notice the post was about homegrown players. I have acknowledged that he did draft some useful players although none are all stars. You want to talk about Beltran? you mean the guy Omars regime almost destroyed because they wouldnt let him get his microfracture surgury? Good for him he went out and got it so he could save his career. Speaking of Duaner maybe he could have saved his career too if he got his own doctors and we wont even get into concussions today.
Give them time, some of them will be all stars
you wanna be mad at Omar? Then be angry about a HR by Yadier Molina, and 2 blown chances to get into the post season in 2007 and 2008. Nothing else. Everything is decided on the field and the Mets were good enough to do that but they lost the games. And it ALWAYS comes back to wins and losses and the Mets those 3 years were good enough to win more games than they should have but they didn’t. They blinked first.
You’re blaming every single extenuating circumstance in order to look for an excuse to blame Omar but you ignore the real reason – the team lost big games than got hit with practically record setting injuries. And that’s why a lot of us said “wait a second” ..Omar wasn’t as bad as these people are now (after the fact, after the games) saying he was.
I felt it was time to move as well, even though i would have preferred to retain him and just fire Jerry Manuel. And I get people will respond with the reason that bringing Alderson in had more to do with cutting finances and then trying to compete and if that’s the case that was the wrong way to go about it. They could have saved money, kept Omar, hire a guy like Bobby V, Wally, or another veteran manager to work with Omar and I would have liked to see them work with that small budget. My feeling is the team would be better by now and not as much money would have been lost the last 2 seasons because the teams would have been better, smarter and more creative ways to stay competitive would have been visited and maybe not make the post season but they would have been better longer into the season resulting in more money for this franchise.
This whole business of Alderson either being forced upon the Wilpons or the Wilpon choosing to hire him to cut finances with no desire to compete was a bad way to go about it.
Ray, you may not be aware, but Alderson kept the medical staff, doctors and trainers intact when he arrived. Injuries happen, nobody is blaming Alderson for letting Mejia pitch with an injured elbow for two months before he had TJS. Nobody is blaming Alderson for letting Santana pitch for a month with a fractured ankle. Nobody is blaming Alderson for letting Wright play for three months with a fractured back.
Harry, I dont come here to pick on Omar but when I see quotes like this, I get a little upset
“The truth is Sandy has done little building has lived off the minors system that Omar built”
like he built something great. I see lots of people come here to beat on alderson even though he has only been on the job 2 years. It makes no sense to me. This organization has had 2 very good GMs who built championship teams that were competitve for years. The rest were fair to incompetent IMO.
The only time the mistrust between management and the fans has been as bad as it is right now was in the late ’70′s and early ’80′s. After the team was sold to the Wilpon/Doubleday group things did not get dramatically better but, all the while, Frank Cashen (who was derisively referred to in an anonymous column by “The Lip” as “Bow Tie”) was building the strongest era in Met history. Cashen was getting slammed as regularly as Alderson is right now but he did not waver and Alderson should not either. Another comparison is the Green Bay Packers, of whom I am a fan (yeah, I know most of you are Giants fans and it should be a fun game tonight). Packers GM Ted Thompson was slammed regularly for “staying the course” and relying on the draft rather than go out and get free agents. Yes those Wisconsinites get as passionate about the Packers as we here in the metro area get about our teams here and many “Cheeseheads” wanted Thompson’s head on a pike. What did they get for their patience? A Superbowl championship, a 15-1 season (please don’t remind me about the playoffs last year!) and a solid contender for a championship this year. Met fans be patient and good things will happen with this franchise as well.
Do you see anybody that Alderson has brought in that has the potential to make the same impact on the team as Rodgers did with the Packers?
When he drafts an a Aaron Rodgers, then we’ll talk.
Packer nation was not enthralled with Rogers based on his pre-season work while Favre was still the QB. Many were very nervous about turning the team over to Rogers when they did. Baseball is a bit different-the Mets may have drafted an “Aaron Rogers” already but we won’t know for a while because of the nature of the two sports. Anyway, your point is well taken that good moves have to be made to regain confidence.
Holmer, while I applaud your apparent optimism I am tempered by a lack of communication as to what plan Sandy is actually following. I was a centrist on Sandy until this years draft and the lack of support he gave the team. This has pushed me to the, Sandy is a money man only, point of view. I am patient but when I am not sold a square bill of goods I become irritated. Building within is great; however, some always point to the Rays as a model and ignore the Pirates. Without a solid plan rebuilding is a never ending process. At some point winning has to become the focus. The Nationals recognized this and made moves to correct their mid season collapses. I am not one who thought Sandy should have traded the farm to bolster the team this year but an extra reliever would have helped or even an outfielder. Anyway my point is, Sandy has not been forthcoming about his plan and has continuously mislead the media and the fan base and I for one am tired of his rhetoric.
Your point is very well taken and I would like to know what the bottom line is myself.
The solution is simple. DONT GO TO THE EFFING GAMES
Of course, most Mets fans can’t do that. Myself, I have no problem with it.
Although the impact isn’t the same, your still feeding the piggy bank if you are watching the games on SNY. Not a criticism, because I do watch on tv and as a fan I don’t apologize for it.
OK….I’ll be guilty of that one then.
Not really though….
The Mets make the same amount of money off SNY if 1 watches or a Million watch….
It’s a flat fee RIGHTS payment that is not dependent on how many people watch at all.
Only time that will have an affect is when it comes time to renew the rights and the TV Network could refuse to pay as much, but that is unlikely to happen due to the Wilpons owning the network.
So watching on TV is not really helping the team at all.
and Not Watching them doesn’t hurt them either.
At best they might lose a few bucks on the Ad Sales from team sponsors which is not a lot of money when it comes right down to it.
A winning team needs a mix of everything… Players acquired through trades/free agency, and prospects. That is the traditional winning formula. The Wilpons and Alderson understand that baseball is a business,but they aren’t getting the idea that to put butts in the seats,you need to start winning,and they also want to make money. Well,to make money,you have to spend it sometimes,which the Wilpons need to stop shying away from. But buying out a bunch of high profiled free agents isn’t the way to win either. (See: 2012 Miami Marlins).
By trimming salary as low as they can will give Alderson the flexibility to make the on the field moves he sees necessary to build a sturdy foundation. If we are still having this conversation next year when Santana, Francisco, and more of Bay’s contract come off the books then I too will be an Alderson/Wilpon basher but they need to get out from under in order to spend as we would like them to spend.
Hi Holmer,
We weren’t supposed to be having this conversation after 2011, either. Remember Sandy saying 2011 was only going to be a “transition year” and after we rid ourselves of many expensive obligations (i.e, Perez, Castillo, Beltran and KRod) he would have more flexibility to work with in 2012.
‘Alderson is to the Wilpos’s what Lee Iacocca was to Chrysler’. Good analogy but a bit scary as I see plenty of Dodge Rams riding around the country. Shows you can put lipstick on a pig.
Also Joe to be fair, when you remind us with ‘as I said they would’, ‘ like I predicted’ etc., etc., etc., I recall you saying that payroll would eventually get down to $60-65 million. Doesn’t appear that will be the case unless the 2014 version of the Mets is all prospects.
Sandy Alderson has been terrible. That is becoming more and more obvious.
Exactly Joe. You can’t say Alderson is doing the right thing by not spending, and then go on to say nothing is his fault because the Mets have no money.
If he’s doing the right thing by not spending, then why does it matter so much if we don’t have a lot to spend?
If the Mets do have no money, then how could he be praised for not spending that he doesn’t exist?
not spending money that doesn’t exist*
The problem is the Mets last year had two albatrose contacts that made the 90 M payroll operate and play like a 50M payroll. Yes teams have injuries where their superstars are out. However lets say despite the Bay and Santana contacts if payroll was not slashed 50M what kind of team we would have had with 101 quality starts if that money was used to fill out glaring needs instead of help the Wilpons survive.
There is a big difference between Sandy and Iacocca….
Lee didn’t stop seliing/producing his best cars in the name of saving money and produce cheap crap cars no one wanted instead.
He kept his best sellers, stopped making his worst sellers and replaced them with other models in an attempt to find the next “Best Seller”
So what Iacocca did was cut the things that did not affect revenue merely the things that did not generate enough to warrant keeping in stock.
This is not the case here….
All of our BEST players each yeasr has gone out the door during the offseason.
Started with K-Rod and Beltran. I won’t rehash those but to say they were the best BP Arm and OF we had. Two positions we are desperate to get ever since they were traded.
Then Reyes was the rmaining best met, he too went out the door for pretty much nothing. We didn’t even sign the guy we took with the comp pick we got for him.
Then Pagan who was at the time our BEST OF left after Beltran was traded.
Now we propose to get rid of our best yet again. Trade Wright and Dickey or let them both walk to get more picks the way we did withReyes and we all know how well that worked out.
If iIacocca had done the same thing all of the best sellers they had would have been discontinued in favor of cheap crap cars.
If that had happened there would be no company today.
It’s no longer american owned because after Iacocca left they DID do exactly what Sandy is doing here…
Selling cheap crap over quality autos.
And they needed another govt bailout because of it.
Didnt Iococca introduce the K-car? Maybe we do have his successor here.
I think if Madoff never happened Sandy is not the GM of the Mets. He was brought in specifically to right the financial ship as the Mets were in dire need of reorganization on that end. No Madoff, and Sandy still is working in his position with the league waiting for Selig to retire to possibly be the next commish. Instead he is waiting as GM of the Mets. To think otherwise just seems silly to me.
And as an honest point, what kind of moves can you expect from any GM that is cutting around $50 million from a payroll that has large financial commitments already in place. If there is a hard line budget set forth by the owners, or their financial advisors as what it needs to be for them to be solvent, I believe the Mets had a $91 million payroll entering last season. With Santana, Bay and Wright accounting for roughly $56 million of that. It would take some magic to be making any kind of substantial move. Especially with Bay, useless production and injuries, and Santana, injuries, being pretty much immovable. Or at least virtually impossible to move without eating the money anyway.
I’m not trying to be a Sandy apologist. I just think if you look at the overall picture, it doesn’t make being the GM of this team easy. Be it Sandy or anyone else. Yes, it’s the Wilpon’s money. Yes, I don’t care what they’re spending because I want a winning product on the field. But the fact is that it’s their money and they care how much of it they spend. As long as that is the case you can’t expect anyone to really make any kind of sweeping changes or big ticket moves. At the end of the day, there is a budget that must be adhered to. And one facet of being GM is making sure to stay within that budget.
Sane, I see your point about large or major moves. I agree that Sandy’s hands are tied concerning big budget items; however, Not signing draft picks for slot price and his lack of movement in solid minor league deals has led me to the conclusion of at best ineptness or at worst carelessness. I like others would patiently sit back and wait for the storm to be over if I was given a light at the end of the tunnel. I do not believe Sandy has done a good job of laying out and sticking to rebuilding plan for the team. Although, he has done well enough at rebuilding ownerships financial condition. This leads me to the conclusion that these years have been partially wasted and once Sandy is gone rebuilding will begin anew.
I look at it one of a few ways. As far as draft picks the new rules in 2012 definitely changed drafting. Penalizing teams for spending on the draft in order to better their prospects. The other thing is historically the Mets don’t spend on the draft. Which, once again, leads me to the Wilpons in this regard. It’s not as if Sandy is the first GM to be stingy with draft picks. And like I said, I don’t like a lot of what is going on, but Sandy was obviously brought in for one purpose. And as far as that purpose is concerned he’s doing it well.
As far as laying out a plan, well he’s said on multiple occasions the plan is to pare down payroll and build from within. Just because we’re not seeing results doesn’t mean he’s not attempting to do that. And maybe it is just lip service, ok it’s definitely lip service, but what else are you really looking for. No one is going to come out and say, hey we’re going to punt this season and possibly try and improve for the future. Like it or not, you’d be getting lip service from any GM that was asked any kind of question in this mold. I can’t fault the guy for not saying, “The Wilpons are broke and won’t allow for me to increase the payroll. Any kind of moves you were hoping for, think ten steps lower and then divide that by 5.”
That goes for the good as well. I’m sure that Alex Anthopoulos wasn’t screaming to people that he was getting every useful piece that the Marlins had available to go all in for the upcoming season. The “plan” from any team is going to be a vague collection of terms that all boil down to we are trying to improve. And that is whether or not they are trying to, or have the ability to. It’s just the nature of the position.
Sane, LOL you are correct in saying that no GM is going to tell the truth in this case. My point is that Sandy should be spending on the draft. At least giving slot salaries. He wouldn’t even do that and if you are building from within then IMO you have to draft well and then sign those guys. I think he could have done this and probably more to help the future of the team while cutting payroll.
The fact is I agree 100%. But historically the team is cheap when it comes to the draft. This is hardly a new development is my point. At the same time, it’s obviously a lot more important if we’re not going to be spending elsewhere to pay to bring in some, what projects to be, impactful prospects.
So yes, absolutely they should be increasing their resources towards drafting and signing better prospects. This is just standard operating procedure for the organization though, minus the high priced free agent acquisitions to add to the ho hum drafting attitude.
I truly do not know how draft finances are handled. I am unsure if a draft budget comes down from owners or if it is part of the overall budget for the team. Either way I am disappointed with either how much they allotted to spend or how they drafted. If they knew they didn’t have the finances than they should have drafted a player that would have signed to under slot money. Oh well.
Nathan are you aware the team signed 34 international amature free agents this year? No other team signed more than 12. Why is that being ignored by the fanbase while the dwelling of the draft picks that weren’t signed continues?
Fonzie, maybe because they are undocumented, unknown, have no playing records that can be examined, not even video or photos. It’s also why only 1 in 100 ever make it to the majors, and less then half even make it to a league in the continental United States. Those signings equate to looking for a needle in a haystack. Don’t believe me? I urge you to list all of them by name, and simply give us their positions, birth dates and and scouting reports you can give on them. As a matter of fact, I’d bet half of them never even reported to the academy as is usually the case, take the money and run. These are not like the players that go through the draft who are all well known, well documented, and well scouted.
That’s similar to what i was wondering. If the Mets were the only team to sign 34 international free agents and the next highest amount by any team is 12 then what does that say?
Is is saying the Mets are onto something? (which i doubt)
Is it that there’s a reason why the other teams draft so little?
Or is it Alderson and Co. again trying to turn water into win because they “think” they know more than the other GMs who’ve been in many post season games and have won a few World Series.
Which is it?
*water into wine
It says that the majority of MLB front offices put very little stock on Venezuelan or Dominican fishing expeditions. I mean the fact that we signed so many of them while other teams didn’t scares me.
Does this mean the Mets making something of the international free agent draft is nothing more than trying to make a minnow appear as a big fish? Thanks for the information guys.
Actually JM13 some of them have already played in the DSL last year and I listed each one of them on another thread about a month, month and a half ago with their positions. I know what You’re saying but by the same token what do we know about the 21 unsigned draftpicks that we can say for sure are any better than those 34 IFA’s? 21 unsigned picks out of a very weak draft I might add.
I follow the draft as much or even more so than most baseball fans and I can’t tell you jack shit about the 21 unsigned players other than 2nd round pick Ted Stankewicz whch to me was the most egregious mistake. Losing out on a young talented arm like Stanky over 60 or 80K made no sense at all.
Who’s to say 1 or 2 potential impact players don’t come out of those 34. Maybe they all bust but the average fan or even a guy like me who follows the top 100 amatures pre-draft can’t tell you about the back half of the draft. With the new CBA taking away the big market teams advantage in the draft maybe they felt the 34 IFA’s have just as much upside as the 21 missed which wouldn’t have been 21 more. No team signs every one of their picks so it’s probably safe to say they may have signed a dozen more in a normal year. They did sign around 38 of their picks in 2011 which was a much deeper draft by far.
So far 2 of the IFA’s signed in Aldersons 1st year with the team Mateo and Montero look like they have a chance to be tremendous pitchers so I’ll at least give them the benefit of the doubt.
Also one of Steve Phillips drafts, I don’t remember the year but there were 25 out of 50 unsigned and I don’t remember anybody dwelling on that. I’m not saying that I know anything about these 34 kids other than the 2 SS’s but there’s not one person who can tell me for sure that the picks that went unsigned are any better than any of those 34.
‘I think if Madoff never happened Sandy is not the GM of the Mets.’
This. I’ll go so far as to say if not for Madoff SA would be a relatively unknown MLB employee under Selig.
Based on that the questions on this article of ‘If not for Madoff’ are all moot.
The point in vaccarros articles as I read it is that the wilpons are doing all they can to piss off the long suffering mets fans. They are playing hardball with Dickey and Wright. The fans need somebody to make them care about this team and it would be nice to see some loyalty to players who want to be here and are very good players. The ticket thing just shows a lack of loyalty to the fans. I thought running a business is about keeping your customers happy and having them say good things about you to their peers and becoming return customers. Not treating them like you dont appreciate their business and treating them like dumb rubes.
Hi Joe,
Even though I know you are not justifying their actions, it is absurd to even partially accept what the Wilpons are doing in regards to opening day by simply equating it to free enterprise. It’s just another squeeze play on the part of the owners. That is why what the Wilpons are doing can’t be rationalized on the grounds of capitalism or excused as a measure taken by a team which has been losing millions taking advantage of such a rare opportunity in which it can raise needed capital to be used specifically to acquire a decent player to help the team.
Why? Well, even though the Wilpons made nice profits for many years, after the 2008 season they forced fans to buy mini-packs in order to get tickets for the first game ever to be played at Citi Field. Same with the subway series – buy all or buy nothing. They weren’t desperate like they are now yet those actions were representative of the many steps they took to unfairly squeeze every penny they could out of the fan base. There are limits to what is fair and ethical, even in the capitalistic world.
Had the Doubledays been the victims of the Madoff scandal and forced to cut back in this same manner I suspect most fans would actually be sympathetic and support them in their efforts to survive as owners simply because if nothing else, they still had a self-serving appreciation of what the fan base meant to them in terms of profit. I also don’t believe they would have insulted our intelligence with the double-talk we have been getting by our current general manager.
With that in mind, I am quite confident that unlike the Wilpons, the Doubledays would have designed a new ballpark which would have still included luxury suites and outrageously high ticket prices but also one that would still also accommodate those of modest means as well and not insulting them further with blocked views of the outfield, restricted entrances and…. yes, even having all escalators go to the very top.
As I think you infer, the backlash about the opening day ticket has more to do with the anger built up over the years than the cost of seeing San Diego on day one. I agree with that but under those circumstances the fans are quite justified to complain and not dismiss this as just a way of conducting business.
Ownership controls the pursestrings. Now look at what has happened. Instead of quickly wrapping up Dickey and Wright they have sat on thier hands while other teams are setting new market highs. How are you going to ask Dickey to come back for 10mm when Kuroda just got 15 mil from the yanks? Another thing I dont believe the numbers they feed us to tell us how much money they are losing. Other teams are flush with cash and giving out ridiculous contracts to the likes of melky cabrerra.
A fish stinks from the head down and this fish is getting pretty ripe. I see alot accusations about cerrone here but I havent seen him apologize for wilpons nearly as much as I am seeing here.
Getting ripe? This has been ripe for nearly a quarter century. Only in the last few years has it been rotting. I hate the Wilpons, but Fred needs to live forever or else we are stuck with his son, Fredo…
God I hope that Saul and Fred’s other children have an interest in the direction of this organization.
There was once a time when comparing anyone with Jim Dolan was an insult to that person. I would rather have Jim Dolan and Hank Steinbrenner together running my team than that imbecile who won the great sperm lottery from the Wilpons…
So this isn’t Moneyball after all, it’s Phoneyball. Nice!
NOBODY HAS ANY IDEA WHAT THIS TEAM WOULD BE LIKE IF MADOFF NEVER HAPPENED….
IT DID HAPPEN…and thats why Sandy is here. To say that he still wouldnt have chased free agents if Madoff never happened is a fool’s statement because Sandy wouldnt be here if Madoff never happened.
Also, to say Sandy wants a 100 million payroll and this is his idea is upsurd. He’s here because Selig wants him here and the Wilpons needed him here. As if anyone in this business would rather keep a crippling payroll just to inforce their own agendas, instead of raising it and having the possibility to compete. Thats ridiculous and something that no human would entertain; everyone wants to win.
This payroll is because of the Wilpons, not Alderson. Frankly, I haven’t read anyone going around yelling that Alderson and his Moneyball leaning ways are the reason for this team’s low payroll. That Joe suggested that Sandy wants to keep this team handcuffed because he wants this team at a low payroll is wrong. A lower payroll than 145 million doesn’t mean crippling the team by slashing 50 million!!! That is done out of nessesity. Couldn’t he have just meant lowering it to about 125 or 130 million? Him wanting a lower payroll had to mean slashing 50 million?
Ever think that maybe the Wilpons wouldn’t let him trade Reyes?
Ever think that the Wilpons wouldn’t let him draft more expensive players?
Ever think that the Wilpons didn’t give them enough money to sign more of the players they did draft?
Ever think that the Wilpons maybe approached Sandy at some point to tell him what they have to spend on a team’s payroll?
Since when does Sandy Alderson have the authority to tell the Wilpons what they will spend in any given year on payroll?
Sandy might have a philosphy, but whoever actually believes he came here and decided to cut payroll himself just to fill the team with undervalued players who are cheap is a fool. A fool. A fool. A fool.
Now, if you got a problem with the players he has signed….more power to you. He’s done a horrible job with the incredibly small amount of funds he has had to spend. Other than Scott hairston, Sandy has produced zero quality major league signings. But, you usually get what you pay for, and good players usually aren’t found at the dollar store. And that is why you can blame the Wilpons as well for those players.
You are very defensive of this man who in fact is allied with Fred and Saul as this post suggests. You who need to accept that and believe it. Alderson is not here to help the Mets and therefore he hasn’t. He is here to help the Wilpons. He is not here to rebuild the team. He is here to rebuild the Wilpons’ fortune. Any moves Alderson makes is just window dressing for the easily fooled fans.
he does have a point in that the wilpons may not have wanted to trade their main attraction in 2011 competing for a batting title….same way they may not want to trade Dickey/Wright..
the Wilpons have consistently made short-sighted decisions that had long term ramifications.
Whether Sandy is complicit is what we really are debating.
So I guess the Wilpons:
- Traded for Al Leiter, he got along with them right?
- Traded for Keith Hernandez
- Traded for Gary Carter
- Traded for Mike Piazza ( I think Fred or Nelson Doubleday actually did urge Phillips to go after him..but they URGED him)
- signed Jason Bay
- signed Oliver Perez
…..okay wait..
Let’s go back to Steve Phillips so that covers Phillips, Duquette, Minaya, & Alderson
Of these 4 general managers – which ones did the Wilpons force to make moves and which ones acted on their own.
Let’s eliminate Alderson okay? Because according to some people here, anything bad that has happened the last 3 years is the Wilpons and not Alderson. So Sandy is scott free right???
But Omar and Steve Phillips are horrible and bad men and get slammed here almost on a daily basis while Alderson is excused.
GIVE ME A GOD DAMNED BREAK!
Sandy has produced zero quality major league signings. But, you usually get what you pay for, and good players usually aren’t found at the dollar store.
WAIT A MINUTE!?!?!?
This deserved it’s own separate comment because of the absurdity of it coming from Alderson’s biggest advocate on this site.
You get what you pay for?
LOL, Are you familiar with what Moneyball was all about? Do you know what “exploiting market inefficiencies” means? Do you know why sabermetrics are used for by GM’s and I don’t mean Fantasy Baseball GM’s?
You get what you pay for? Who needs Alderson for that? We could suck without him.
Joe D.,
I agree with Vaccaro’s point, this ownership waffles back and forth and as a result the franchise is a big market pretender. Before the Madoff debacle, the were still a day late and a dollar short in 2007 and 2008, not allowing Minaya to spend the extra buck to find some additional depth to pit them into the playoffs. I disagree on Alderson. I don’t see him as a moneyball or nothing GM. I actually think he took the Met job for 2 reasons -1. as a stepping stone to the commissioner’s job and 2. to GM a team with more resources than Oakland or San Diego. I think after he signed the fiscal shape of the team deteriorated and there was no choice but to purge and bottom feed. I am not buying that this team, in this market, with SNY, cannot afford a $115 million payroll in 2013. I don’t see their books, but where there is a will there is a way. They can spend $1154 mil in 2013 and drop to $95 to $100 mil in 2014, without compromising the commitment to the “core” and building the sytsem. If theyt can close fair deals with DW and RA, they can go get a closer, a leadoff hitter/CF, and a RH OF bat, a serviceable RH hitter, give up no draft picks to do so, and put a respectable club on the field for those $63 opening day promenade tix. It is still possible.