26
2012
Mets Minor League Positional Depth Chart: Catcher
An article by 
Cam Maron – Mets Future Backstop?
Welcome back for part two in the MMO series where we bring you the depth charts for each position in the Mets minor league system. We started off last week with the First-basemen, and continue the series this week with the five best Catchers in the Mets organization.
It has been well documented that the Mets are thin in catching throughout the organization, but is there anyone already here that might be about to erupt onto the prospect scene? Or perhaps a player or two who are quietly putting together a solid start to their minor league careers? Or the one nobody is talking about? Keep reading to find out.
1. Cam Maron
The number one catching prospect in the Mets system is arguably the left-handed hitting back-stop, Cam Maron from Hicksville, NY. Maron was initially drafted by the Mets in the 34th round of the 2209 MLB first year player draft out of Hicksville High School. At first Maron was extremely raw behind the plate, but has worked very diligently on his footwork and receiving skills, as well as his throwing mechanics, and has made tremendous strides defensively.
His swing has always been a good contact stroke and he has exhibited very good plate discipline, although thus far the emphasis has been on developing his defensive game. Despite this, he had a very good year with the bat in 2012, placing second on the Savannah Sand Gnats in hitting with a .300 batting average in 343 at-bats. Thanks to a very good K/BB ratio of 73/53, he led his team in on-base percentage with a .403, while hitting five home runs and driving in 47.
Maron brings a lot of skills to the catching position. Since he was drafted out of high school, he has four professional seasons under his belt but is still only 21-years-old. He has a good eye at the plate, has hit .300 or better in each of his last three minor league seasons, and shows a definite feel for the nuances of the catching position. Expect him to meet the challenges of the advanced-A Florida State League in 2013 where his bat will be truly put to the test.
2. Kevin Plawecki
Some would say that the Mets 1st round sandwich pick from 2012, Kevin Plawecki is the Mets number one catching prospect, and I wouldn’t argue too strenuously one way or the other. It’s merely the difference between a 21-year-old catcher like Maron who was developed in the Mets system, and who has a sweet lefty line-drive swing, and a developing defensive game. Or a 21-year-old right-handed power hitter, who was developed at a major university, and can hit one out of any ballpark in any given at-bat, and has a developing defensive game.
Comparing Maron and Plawecki is like comparing apples and oranges. They both are solid back-stops. They both show a great deal of talent. They have both only played in low-A ball up to this point, and have a very long way to go. Where Maron is very selective at the plate and will take the walk, Plawecki is looking for something to drive, however unlike the proto-typical slugger Plawecki rarely strikes out.
In 216 at-bats this year with the Brooklyn Cyclones, Plawecki hit .250 with seven home runs and 27 RBI’s. His K/BB ratio was 24/25, which raised his on-base percentage for the season to .345. As you can see Plawecki is a very pleasant combination of disciplined hitter, and slugger. If he can make the necessary adjustments to better pitching as he moves up the ladder, he could become a very intriguing prospect further down the line.
3. Francisco Pena
In writing this I am making the assumption that Pena will sign to play with the Mets organization again in 2013. You see he originally signed with them as an International Free Agent way back in July of 2006, and has now played six years in the Mets system. Since he has not been added to the 40-man roster, he is now an unrestricted free-agent. Hopefully the Mets need at catcher, his loyalty to the organization, and their desire to keep him in the fold will mean a return for him next season, but who knows?
The 23-year-old back-stop swung the bat pretty well for St. Lucie in the first half of 2012, going .254 with four home runs and 22 RBI’s, and earned a promotion to Binghamton for the second half. He never really got the bat going on his first run through the Eastern League hitting only .198 with three homers and 17 RBI’s in 126 at-bats.
I talked to Francisco shortly after he was called up to Bingo, in New Britain, CT towards the end of July. He told me the thing he was working the hardest on was getting in tune with the pitchers and what they were throwing since he hadn’t caught most of them since the previous season. Always considered a very good defensive catcher, Pena platooned with Binghamton’s starting catcher last year, Juan Centeno.
For his six year pro career, Pena has thrown out 30% of potential base stealers. He calls a very good game, receives the ball exceptionally well, and has a lifetime fielding percentage of .986. But the smart money would have Pena return to AA for the beginning of 2013. He needs to get the bat going at that level before he will be ready for AAA and the Las Vegas 51′s out there in the desert. Besides Centeno clearly outplayed him in the second half last year, so if anyone has truly earned that promotion it would be Centeno, not Pena.
4. Blake Forsythe
The 23-year-old righty hitting catcher started his professional career when the Mets made him their 2010 3rd round pick (89th overall) in the MLB first year player draft out of the University of Tennessee. He was drafted just after the Mets took Matt Harvey, and just before they took Cory Vaughn and then Matt den Dekker.
It has been slow going for Forsythe as he still looks to get his bat going, but he has made significant defensive strides in his three years in the organization. He is a tireless worker and takes great pride in his defensive game and his ability to work well with the pitching staff. His hitting has made very small advancements each season to where he just completed his first full season in the Florida State League with St. Lucie.
It was an up-and-down year as he started the season with an outstanding April and May, hitting .283 with four home runs and 22 RBI’s on June 1st. But a mediocre June and July where he hit just .244 with one home run and 12 RBI’s, combined with a pretty poor showing in August where he hit just .197 with three home runs and eight RBI’s, lowered his numbers for the season to .244/.339/.397, with eight home runs and 42 RBI’s.
It is not beyond the realm of possibility for a player of Forsythe’s pedigree to experience a quantum leap in any given season. But for it to happen with Forsythe in 2013 it will have to correspond to when he makes the big jump to AA. With Cam Maron, Alberto Cordero and Xorge Carrillo pushing their way up from Savannah, Forsythe will almost certainly be forced to open the year at Binghamton.
Forsythe still needs to cut down on his strikeouts before he can find success in the Eastern League next year. In 2011 in 370 at-bats at Savannah, he struck out 123 times, or roughly once every three at-bats. This past year at Lucie he batted 295 times, and managed to cut his strikeouts a bit to 89, or roughly once every 3.4 at-bats. He needs to keep making progress in that direction moving forward. The upcoming season will be a very important one for the young catcher from Tennessee, let’s hope he can make the most of the opportunity.
5. Juan Centeno
Soon to be 23-years-old, the 5’7″ 175 lb. left-hand hitting Centeno was the first string catcher all season at AA Binghamton last year. He posted career highs last season in at-bats (281), runs scored (29), hits (80), doubles (12), 3B’s (2), and RBI’s (35). He was originally drafted by the Mets in the 32nd round of the 2007 first year player draft out of high school in Puerto Rico.
Centeno is a solid defensive catcher, and has a knack for making contact at the plate. His slash-line for the year was .285/.337/.342, and he threw out 41% of would-be base stealers, while posting a fielding percentage of .991. I look for Centeno to open next season in a catching tandem with a veteran player for Wally Backman at AAA Las Vegas. I would not expect any significant contributions to the big league club in 2013, but a strong season at AAA could propel him onto the 40-man roster for the start of 2014.
Organizational Grade Catcher: C-
Be sure to check back next week when we release the official Mets Minor League Depth Chart: Right-handed Pitchers. You won’t want to miss that! Speaking of which, if you missed the Metsmerized Radio show from this week, then do yourself a favor and check it out in the archive, as it was probably our best show so far! And keep in mind that next week Metsmerized Radio will come to you on it’s new day, Wednesday, which will happen to correspond with our very very special Halloween Show, and believe me you will rather be attacked by a horde of vampires rather than miss that!
Just to make it easy for you, here is this past Thursday night’s show: Metsmerized Radio Oct. 25th, 2012.
About the Author: Peter Shapiro
The first time I went to Shea was not for a Mets game, it was for the Beatles concert there in August of '66. My first Met game was '67, a guy named Salty Parker was the interim-manager then. My first pennant race was 1969. As a 12 year-old that summer and fall, I managed to get to the park for 3 games. The first was the beginning of the Miracle which actually started on Tuesday July 8, 1969 with a day game against the Cubs. I was there a lot in '73. I saw games 3 & 5 of the 1973 NL Playoffs against the "Big Red Machine", from the upper deck behind home plate. It was from there that I witnessed the fight between Bud Harrelson and Pete Rose, and the mayhem that ensued. And that sweet victory in game 5! I saw a couple of WS games at Shea that year against that legendary Oakland A's club. I was there in 1985 for every single game Dr. K pitched including his two 16 strikeout performances, and the day he one-hit the Cubs on an infield single and the Mets won 1-0. I loved being a Met fan in those days. Hopefully we are once again preparing to emerge from the darkness.
69 Comments + Add Comment
NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 23 | 18 | .561 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 19 | .548 | 0.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 22 | .476 | 3.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 23 | .410 | 6.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 31 | .262 | 12.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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No mention of Cordero? No hope for his bat?
Umm, you’re kidding right? He’s 23 and just repeated his third year in Savannah where he batted .194 and had a .530 OPS. He’s the oldest player in the Sally. LOL Just because Mack and Toby call him a top prospect, doesn’t mean he is.
Thank you for sparing us Cordero, Pete.
I didn’t say he was a top prospect. I even specifically mentioned his lousy bat.
It should be noted that catchers tend to take longer to develop and that he did get as many reps behind the plate as Maron did.
Yes, duly noted.
Centeno is only 5-7? Does he catch sanding up?
and I though at the time he was drafted Palwecki was considered to be a very polished defensive guy (and a rare college catcher that called his own game)> IOW, a “real” catcher, not a development project.
Hi Peter,
Find it interesting that a 34th round draft pick is now rated as our top catching prospect considering how few bottom twenty picks we signed this past season or would not trade Hairston for…..
Take the best available players in the first two rounds, fill organizational needs with the others, rounds 3-40 are all a crap shoot. And one more thing, sign them all. If you want a good model for the draft look at the other 29 teams, not the Mets. If you were to do a list like this but one for 2011 first round, and one for the 2012 first round, the top pick in each list would be the player drafted right after the Mets, and the players the Mets selected would be in the bottom five. Truth.
you can’t sign them all. no team does. You flat out don’t have enough slots to place them all.
the back half of the draft seems more like the place where you load up on volume and pick the ones that fit the best, knowing a bunch of them won’t sign. And how many a team does has to be balanced against how many openings they expect to have (because if the guys drafted are not better than guys you already have in the system, why bother?)
also need room for the IFAs coming stateside. And if you sign more IFAs in a year, you probably sign fewer draft picks.
No team signs less than half either, and most teams sign their first and second rounds. Mets are the first team in the history of the draft and particularly slot guidelines that failed to sign a second round pick who didn’t want more than slot. The new Mets are breaking new records all the time.
By the way if they had no room for those 21 unsigned players, why did they sign 32 players 4 weeks later named Pedro, Juan and Jose all for the price of a Grand Slam Breakfast at Denny’s? Answer me that Stick. Where did they fit all those bodies? Oops your agenda is showing again, Stick.
I believe the mets have 2 Dominican Winter league teams that they can stick those guys in…
still no excuse not to sign ur draft picks…esp when u already have BS filler in AAA
Damaja – I know. It’s just that these posters here and their agendas can drive me up a wall. Instead of being angry like normal baseball fans, they actually defend the ineptness and irresponsibility.
lol
yeah the agenda’s here are kinda fishy…
petey pete lists 5 guys for the title of best met catching prospect
the guy at the bottom of the list has the best CS% rate, highest batting average
the guy at the top of the list had the lowest CS% rate and was made to be a DH
They have 2 Dominican Summer League teams Maniac.
u cant sign them all…but the mets routinely rank in the bottom when it comes to draft spending, IFA spending…every year…for the past 25 years..
I’ve been saying that forever Damaja but some people here just don’t believe it. They spent the 2nd fewest amount on the draft for 20 years which is why we’ve only developed 3 star quality players during that span. Alfonzie, Reyes and Wright. Pretty pathetic!
to me this is why they hired Omar in the first place…
not only could he get the big fish and compete now…
but the fact that his scouts could go in the garbage can and get some gems on the cheap would allow them to slowly rebuild their farm system.
The Wilpons smile when they see a 7th round draft pick signed for 60K like Lucas Duda hit 19 HR’s and get paid 400K for the first 3 years of his career…
ditto for Daniel Murphy
ditto for Jon Niese
ditto for Josh Thole
ditto for Bobby P
ditto for Capt. Kirk
ditto for Ruben Tejada
90% of the productive young players were low-cost IFA’s or draft picks…
the Wilpons were banking on getting the next Pudge or Ruben Sierra for pennies on the dollar…
and now that they dont have Omar…they were forced by Selig to have Sandy and his guys come in…and make them the highest paid FO in the league
if u want to see how relationships with the media affect article writing…please see Met stool pidgeon anthony dicomo from MLB
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110314&content_id=16944560&vkey=news_nym&c_id=nym
After these 2 were hired, Anthony writes up a nice article, creating a mix of fantasy, fact and fiction
“For DePodesta, who was fired in Los Angeles amid heavy media criticism (despite creating the foundation of successful teams to come), the ambition to head a staff burns somewhat stronger. But DePodesta says he has turned down multiple general manager jobs over the past six years, citing a desire to remain someplace comfortable — at least for now.”
Ok..
1 – Paul Depo lasted 10 months there…did not run 1 draft, The 2005 season resulted in the team’s worst record since 1992 and second worst since moving to LA in 1958. ….and somehow he created the foundation of successful teams to come ?
2 – Depo has this “burning” ambition to head up a staff…but this burning desire in the past 7 years has turned down “multiple” general manager roles….citing a desire to remain comfortable…?
umm…if i remember correct, after he got canned in LA, a few months later he was hired by Sandy Alderson to run SD’s drafts…did an absolute atrocious job there….
this is why you have to consider the source of the article when you read
Damn, i didn’t know we had a midget for a catcher… Damn, 5’7!!? is he allowed to catch? How do the ump call the strike zone.? man, that’s weird..
It actually saves his knees because he can stand upright and maintain the zone.
despite being 5’7, Juan Centeno defensively is head and shoulders above anyone on this list…and offensively better than Cam Maron
and Juan is only 13 months older than Cam…
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=centen002jua
You are right in standing up for Centeno….pardon the pun. He’s a good ballplayer and a hard worker, also a real nice guy. But keep in mind that the main criteria for this list is upside.
but again…centeno is only 13 months older than the guy who is number #1 on this list…
From 2010-2011-2012…when it comes to defense, throwing out runners, hitting for contact, Centeno has outperformed every single catcher on this list
Cam Maron gets the #1 spot…while only throwing out 13% of base-runners in A ball no less
Juan Centeno throws out 41% of base-stealers in AA ball…and is #5…
hell, even the guy he supplanted and put on the bench, Francisco Pena, got ranked higher..
because of “upside”
lol
ok !
Your talking about minor leaguers. Minor leaguers have ceilings. They don’t all get to the majors. They all don’t get to AAA, or AA. Upside is what makes a player continue to rise. The past minor league statistics you invoke have very little to do with where this player will ultimately progress to. He made this list primarily because of his defensive abilities in the minor leagues, and because the list is so thin that you could make the argument that none of them are legitimate big league prospects.
he hits .371 in Brooklyn
he hits .318 in A ball
( both numbers higher than any other met catcher )
he hits .285 in AA ball …as a 21 year old
and somehow —”He made this list primarily because of his defensive abilities in the minor leagues”
and “upside” is very subjective. u dont get promoted because you have upside. u get promoted because you were able to turn your potential into tangible results ( aka stats )
Daniel Murphy has always been called someone with a low ceiling…
same with Lucas Duda…
same with Ruben Tejada…
all 3 will likely be starting players in the MLB
Juan Centeno has outperformed everyone on this list and is currently 22 years old..
Kevin Pawlecki is 21 years old
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=plawec000kev
Cam Maron is 21 years old
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=maron-001cam
Brook Forsythe is 23 years old
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=forsyt001bla
Juan Centeno is 22 years old
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=centen002jua
i mean we can leave out the hard-worker nice-guy intangibles aside…im sure they all are nice guys who work hard…
centeno’s numbers >>> Cam’s numbers
until that changes, im not sure how u can rank Cam as the #1 catching prospect. IMO, you were better off at putting the list together in no particular order
If Josh Thole gets hurt and Centeno is replicating his 2010-2012 production in AA or AAA, he is probably next in line to get called up
You can throw your statistics and calculations right out the window. Let me ask you a question, five actually. Have you ever seen any of these guys play in person?
1. Cam Maron
2. Plawecki
3. Pena
4. Forsythe
5. (your stud catcher) Centeno
And how many times for each?
You see I need to know what you are basing your opinions on other than statistics? Because in this argument, statistics mean absolutely nothing, although I don’t think you are able to grasp that concept very well. I have seen Maron play live in four games, Plawecki in eight games, Pena in six games, Rorsythe twice, and Centeno six times. I am basing my opinions on what I’ve seen with my own two eyes during game situations, are you?
wait a minute…
ur not a scout…u dont travel and follow the team…but these rankings have everything to do with your subjective opinion on a player u saw THAT DAY???
and i am imagining you saw them in Brooklyn…
are you going to fly to Pt. St Lucie and follow up with this scouting?
No?
ok…then HOW do you suppose you can accurately rate the progress of a prospect when you see him early in his development…and not so much after…
Centeno has had 563 AB’s since 2010…he has hit .302 over the course of those 3 seasons…
thats BETTER than ANYONE ON THIS LIST…
but we can scrap that…because the 4 days you saw him ( however many years ago ) you didnt think his hips would generate enough centrifugal force to hit a Cliff Lee slider?
you placed Pena…a guy that Centeno sent to the BENCH above him..
and when i ask u why…u cant come up with anything tangible…
as a matter of fact…you said I can scrap that…because stats ( nor facts ) matter in this argument..
dont call this…the best met catcher in the minors article..
call this…the Petey Pete’s top 5 FAVORITE met catcher prospects
thank u for playing
( o and to answer ur question, I’ve seen Plaweki, Pena, Brook and Centeno …all multiple times)
You know batting average isn’t the only stat that matters, right? And you never mention that Centeno hit in the 100′s for the first 3 years of his career…
probably b/c he was 17-18-19 in this first 3 years…
ages 20-21-22 he has hit .302 over the course of the next 3 years…
but yeah, we should ignore the last 3 years and focus on the first !
that sounds intelligent !!!
Good job ignoring the first part.
This tool thinks that minor league statisics mean something, he wouldn’t know a good swing from a bad swing if it bit him on the ass, he would just say “but that guy raked in the minors! He must be fantastic!”
Yes, because when it comes to swings, didnt we have someone who reminded scouts of Manny Ramirez…we even called him Mini-Manny…
Victor something?
Now I’m a tool?
excellent !!!!
i love name-calling
lets just say i dont think you are the sharpest “tool” in the shed
Insulting readers who disagree or criticize your work means you might want to consider another hobby. Clearly you expect everyone to just drop to their knees and praise your work, which is a fantastic fantasy but has nothing to do with reality on a fan site. Assuming this is still a fan site where all opinions are welcome. Lately it doesn’t seem that way. This site is starting to resemble MetsBlog Lite.
reality on a fan site?
this guy puts a DH as the best catching prospect in the org
i think reality left a few stops ago !
good job not taking a holistic view of a player’s value !
i would much rather have a catcher who sucked at throwing runners out, didnt play good defense…but could hit .288 with 20 HR !
YES !!!!
I want the Catcher position to be a place where designated hitters come to play !!!
and yeah batting average isnt the only stat that matters..
thats why i brought up DEFENSE
and in that case..Juan Centeno is defecating all over the guys on this list
so not only does he hit for higher avg
but he ALSO throws out runners at a much higher rate
but no !
Petey Pete saw Centeno 3x times a couple of years ago…
Lets ignore all the statistics
why use fangraphs
why use base-ball reference
petey pete = my baseball reference
when i wanna know how good someone is…i dont pull up stats….
i ask Pete if he has seen them play
Does Recker count now.
Nice breakdowns Pete.
Nice job Petey. I agree with your rankings with one exception, I’d have placed Forsythe last and given Tomas Nido at least a special mention. He could be someone special down the road. We’ll see how he comes along in Savannah, but I think he’s going to be a decent hitter with power. Not so sure he’ll stick at catcher unless he improves dramatically especially his arm accuracy.
Check out this video of him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o9MoUz-giDM#!
Thanks, I appreciate that. By the way, you have no idea how close I was to having Tomas Nido in the 5th spot, I switched him and Centeno while I was writing the piece. But the way I see it is if Nido really is worthy of being on the list, let him prove it next year, and then I’ll be happy to include him the next time.
If you had left Centeno off this list and went with Nido, Damaja would have blown a gasket.
Considering the guy he thinks is #1 on the list…had a 13% CS rate and was made to be a DH for 30 games this year….i dont think anything can surprise me with Petey Pete aka Bill James…
Damaja…
As soon as I saw this post I thought if you; knowing you’d be touting Centeno and posting all sorts of junk trying to say he is the best catching prospect. I laughed when I saw Pete had him fifth behind Forsythe. That must’ve made you pretty upset, but also it should show you that Centeno doesn’t have any upside.
The guy might be great defensively, but you might be the only one excited about him. Maron and Pawlecki are the Mets future catchers unless they trade for one. Centeno, for lack of a better word or phrase, stinks. He stinks.
Also, he stinks. And that’s why he’s lucky to be on the list at all. Number 5 in the system sounds about right for a 5 foot 7 inch, all glove, no pop back up.
TruthsaboutMurphy October 26, 2012 at 9:45 pm
Damaja…
>As soon as I saw this post I thought if you; knowing you’d be touting Centeno and posting all >sorts of junk trying to say he is the best catching prospect.
All Sorts of Junk includes:
having a higher batting average than anyone else on that list
having a better CS% than anyone else on that list
being approximately the same age as everyone else on that list
>I laughed when I saw Pete had him fifth behind Forsythe. That must’ve made you pretty >upset, but also it should show you that Centeno doesn’t have any upside.
Upset? No….but when Petey Pete is ignoring CS% and posting Centeno’s height…I have to seriously question how good his analytical skills are…
right now…I seriously think Pete thinks upside is a measure of how much a player is going to grow in height, not talent
>>The guy might be great defensively, but you might be the only one excited about him.
Nope, the staff at Brooklyn raved about him…the staff at AA said he was the most improved player on their team.
>Maron and Pawlecki are the Mets future catchers unless they trade for one.
>Centeno, for lack of a better word or phrase, stinks. He stinks. Also, he stinks.
Well when u are the shiznit…u will stink…
41% CS…a better batting average than anyone else on that list…
>>>And that’s why he’s lucky to be on the list at all. Number 5 in the system sounds about >>>right for a 5 foot 7 inch, all glove, no pop back up.
In 4 seasons, the best catcher in baseball, yadier molina hit .278 and averaged 3 HR per year…
I know you really are rooting for Kevin Pawlecki’s extra hard…but unless he outperforms Juan…his height isnt going to mean much…and if he has pop in his bat…he’s gonna get moved to 1B
“Centeno, for lack of a better word or phrase, stinks. He stinks. Also, he stinks.”
“Well when u are the shiznit…u will stink…”
Outstanding. Just tremendous.
I am agree with just da damaja. WHO KNOWS HERE Ivan Rodriguez is 5 feet 8 inches tal?l. By the way i have a baseball card of Juan Centeno and i am reading right now he is 5 feet 9 inches tall . I AM GOING TO BELIEVE IN THE CARD INFORMATION OR IN Juan, Pedro or Jose?The only 2 catchers in the minors of Mets that has abilities to be a starting catcher in the Big show in the future are Juan Centeno and Francisco Pena. SO i expect the under dog Centeno other team takes him if Mets do not protect him and play against them and you are going to apreciate him . LIKE Jesus Flores. In this last 7 years all of you pu all others catchers over Centeno like Dock Doyle ,KAI GRONAUER, IN THEcase of Cam he is going to play other position in the future , he do not call the game and that is the more important thing for a catcher
nice trolling
Yeah, everywhere else has Centeno listed at 5’9
he has more “upside” than ya think !
lmao
only met fans take the most productive person and rank him lowest because of his height…
When i said the Catcher spot is the QB of the team…I didnt mean to take it literally….he doesnt have to be 6’5…
Pena has been horrible since day 1. Day 1!!! Flores was in A ball, so they didn’t think they had to protect him, which is understandable.
Lesson #3 Who cares about first day ,second one or 3 year .We have to look about a entire career. Pena is in the organization since 2006, You and others here know something? the guy some body here said that stinks is in the organization since the 2007 draft? if Petey knows in that Draft the Mets picked 42 players and only 9 still right now at the organization, and 1 of them is Juan Centeno, only 4 arrived to the big show already again all the fans fall in love with the guys over 6 feet tall but the history says the best of the best catchers no have 6 feet tall , and thats are Yogi Berra 5 feet 7 inches,Ivan Rodriguez 5 feet 8 inches, and Yadier Molina about 5 feet 10 inches so they have all 3 the biggest heart to fight in the home plate with a bear of 8 feet tall so if you see the bear comes running to the home plate do not worry about them take care of the bear please because like the story of David and Goliath they are going to take off the head of the bear.
Hey Pete I always respect everything you say so take this as lightly as it is meant….
But are you suggesting we have to wait 200 Years to fill the hole at catcher considering Maron won’t be drafted in 2209?
LOL
I actually sometimes believe thats how long it could take the way things are going around here!
And how do you explain me Cesar Puello is a 40 man in A also.? This is the way Jesus Flores was in the Big Show from that rule 5 since last year and thats is evidence that he was prepare to be in major leagues that time and the Mets do not protect ed him. Another thing is who knows here about the hall of fame catcher Yogi Berra/? He also is 5 feet and 7 inches lol THATS THE SIZE YOU CAN SEE BUT THE SIZE YOU COULD NOT SEE IS HIS HEART AND YOGI HEART IS 6 FEET TALL.,by the way I do not saw him playing , and probably , anyone here saw him playing and we could know he is probably the best all time catcher. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SEE playing in live to know how good could be and comments about
Molina??? Are you saying Centeno is the next Molina?
Thanks for bringing some clarity to my opinion that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
You really think that if Centeno had even half the talent Molina has, he’d be ranked so low in everyone’s prospect list? Now, let’s go back and find every single all star playing today and check out their stats in high A. Whichever ones weren’t that good, we’ll compare to the crappy players the Mets have(like Centeno), and tell everyone they’re going to be superstars. Then, the Mets will have the greatest minor league system in history!!!!
Damaja, you single handedly turned every bad player in the mets system into a future hall of famer!!! Thank you!!!
Yes !
Because showing you can hit over .300 over the course of 3 seasons…throw out opposing runners in more advanced leagues AND play good defense at the same time…is a FINE EXAMPLE of being a BAD PLAYER !
The Cardinals traditionally have good defensive catchers, really good defense and solid fundamentals all-around the diamond.
But in your demented universe, Kevin Pawlecki would get promoted before mr. all-glove, no pop Yadier Molina !
there is a disturbing trend among fans to ignore defense and throwing out runners when it comes to catchers
You are looking for the next Mike Piazza…
I am looking for the next Pudge..
Interesting post Pete, I do enjoy checking in on the minors from time to time. I don’t really have the time to keep up with it so you and others insight insight is appreciated. As to the argument at hand, It really doesn’t matter were a player is slotted in these kinds of rankings. Being in the top 5 is almost the same as being #1 on a list that is as thin as this one. Centeno may keep progressing and end up playing in the majors. If he does well no one will stop him and remind him that his “Ceiling” is low and he has to start playing badly. All this means is that his tools specifically bat do not project well. He may continue to adjust and be a solid hitter. These lists do not stop him from fulfilling his dreams. As for Pena being ahead of him, this is a prospect list conundrum Pena has pedigree, Pena looks like a ballplayer, He should be better than he is, but he isn’t. One is hard pressed to not add him because he should be there and hopefully he will. This could be the reason he is on the list. Centeno is on the llist for what he has done and Pena is on the list for what others think he will do. That is all, it isn’t a dig to anyone’s talent just a different way to view a players formadibe years.
Juan centeno-
2011 21 years old high a: 318/368/382 39cs% .2 passed balls/game .075 GDP/game 6.7bb%12.4K%
2012 22 years old double a: 285/337/342 41cs% .11 passed balls/game .38GDP/game 15.3bb%13.7k%
Cam maron-
2011 20 years old low a(Kingsport): 317/431/410 24cs% .07 passed balls/game .03 GDP/game 15.3bb% 13.7K%
2012 21 years old low a (Savannah):300/403/408 13cs% .06 passed balls/game .095 GDP/game
13bb% 17.8K%
For centeno’s second year it’s 7.3bb% and 13.7K%
2012 – 13 % CS vs. 41% CS
and guess where that landed the top rated catching prospect in Petey Pete’s eyes
as a DH
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=maron-001cam#standard_fielding::none
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/06/mets-minors-daily-attack-of-the-clones-dooms-aberdeen-st-lucie-cruises-to-another-win.html
it turns out the coaching staff doesnt think Camron is even suited to catch low A ball…and the coaching staff didnt think Francisco Pena was suited to start over Juan Centeno…
but please…dont allow any of this to get in the way of Petey Pete’s expert eye-witness analysis
Petey Pete = Metsmerized version of Bill James
They did that to get his bat in the lineup when Cordero started
i dont see any other team doing that to their top catching prospect
I am sure Killa Cam will improve his defense, game-calling and incredible 13% CS rate by being a DH !
The same way Francisco Pena improved the quality of the AA bench by sitting on it more often than the guy who replaced him…
who was that…?
you guessed it …
Juan Centeno !
So basically maron has more power, way better obp, slightly higher average, less GDP’s and a much higher walk rate. Centeno throws out more runners and strikes out a little less.
And maron has less passed balls
yes, its easy to have less passed balls when you are no longer a CATCHER !
what an amazing discovery
I don’t understand the argument. Don’t we all want our ML guys to succeed and develop? Whats with all this nonsense about a guy in a top 5 list being junk. He’s our guy and he had a statistically fine year. Why do some people need to bash a player just to try and prove they know more than the next guy?
of course, i want all of them to be HOF caliber players.
the argument for me is based on how we rate and evaluate the chances of that happening.
Personally, I think the fact that Cam Maron is from Hicksville, grew up a Mets fan and could be another hometown kid does good. it makes him an easier story to root for.
the same with some john franco jr. who we drafted. I actually met john’s cousin at JFK coming from Florida and he was telling me about his son.
His son idolized the mets growing up.
His son grew up in NYC
His son got drafted by the mets in 2009
His son passed up on the mets signing bonus and went to Brown
There is no way in hell you are going to tell me that the media wouldnt root for John Franco’s kid a lil bit more than say….Greg Vaughn’s kid ( Corey Vaughn )
I saw more articles about JJ Franco in the few months after being drafted than I have seen about Corey Vaughn…who is still in the org
Its just a nicer story…we like nice stories.
But please, never let nice stories get in the way of LOGIC
that nice story is 99.999% of the logic behind Petey Pete’s list
maybe its the cold engineer aspect of me…but i look at facts, hard data.
there are intangibles that a catcher brings that affect the game
his ability to develop relationships with umpires…get into the batters head….get into the pitchers head….have his staff trust him…
Pudge was a master of this …this is why he was able to take a young staff in Florida and lead them to a title…
this is why he took the worst team in baseball and in 1 year they made the biggest single record improvement ( detroit 2003-2004 )…2 years later they are in the WS
I seriously think the Mets have a gem on their hands with Centeno
I hope you are right in Centeno being a difference maker. However, the hard data is not the sole judge of minor league talent. Scouts and scout wannabe’s have been using “projections” for years. Whether it works or not, I will not judge except to say many players have proven projections both ways. In fact I do this while watching a game. For example The sound of the ball coming off the bat can mean quite alot about how well a pitcher is doing early on and yet if outs are made there is no statistical way to judge how hard the ball was hit. I have never much followed this catcher but he could be a hard line drive hitter or a lucky punch a judy guy but the stats won’t show it either way.
I believe the hits now are broken into Line Drives, ground balls, fly-balls,
LOL Yeah they are. I haven’t looked into it for him. What is the breakdown for him? My point was more focused on the things that take place on the diamond that don’t show up on the score card or aren’t reflected in the standard stats. Advanced metrics have, supposedly, helped player evaluations but I rarely have the time to go that in-depth with each minor leaguer. However, power in the minors is usually seen as king. If you have a guy that shows power and doesn’t strikeout a ton they are often herald. I do agree that name recognition through the draft or pedigree, does have a bias but in the end it rarely wins over talent.
yeah i dont believe i have seen it broken down for minor leaguers yet…
IMO, im totally happy with a all-glove, no bat C, who calls a great game, handles a staff well, throws runners out
he can hit .220 for all i care
a C will have influence over 120-150 pitches per game…
multiply that by 130 games
thats over 15,000 pitches a catcher has thrown at him over the course of a season….
if he has issues with handling balls in the dirt…throwing runners out…calling a good game….
his 20-25 HR’s wont have as much of an effect on the team’s success as the other aspects of the game
People have changed their perception of what is important for the positions up the middle ( SS/2B/CF/C )
Defense is still primarily the key for those positions…u cant win with a poor defensive catcher
Of the 10 teams that made the playoffs this year
6 division title winners and 4 WC winners
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/seasontype/2/position/c/order/true
9 of their catchers ranked in the top 11 defensively
the only one missing from the list was Geovany Soto….and that was b/c he didnt play enough games with Texas…his fielding percentage was .997 which would’ve placed him at #1
this is why i laugh when our so-called analysts discuss catching and focus on their offense
a big bopper for a catcher is useless if he cant catch
For example, after 2000, if Mike Piazza was in the AL…he would’ve been a DH on most teams…
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/year/2005/seasontype/2/position/c/order/true
Go year by year…and Piazza’s defense went down…and down…and down….in 1999, 2000, he had the best fielding percentage among all catchers…
in 2001, it slipped to 10
by 2002, he was off the list
in 2004, we had a chance to get arguably the best defensive catcher of all time….this would mean that Piazza would have to move to 1B and put off getting record for HR by a catcher for winning…
neither the Wilpons nor Piazza were going to put WINNING above that
this is among the reasons why our team never wins…
they never put WINNING first
its always something else
now its…
O we need to sign David Wright because he’s the face of the franchise
Winning comes 1st and foremost…
all the fans that would’ve complained in December that we signed Pudge would’ve changed their opinion if Pudge leads us to a WS at any point from 2004-2008
I seriously feel that Pudge on the 2005-2006-2007-2008 teams results in a different outcome
we dont go with backup catchers in 2007
we dont go with Schneider in 2008