20
2011
Mets Should Try To Acquire Saunders, Non-Tender Pelfrey
An article by 72MetsFan
This morning, Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reported that the Diamondbacks could non-tender LHP Joe Saunders who is projected to earn $5 million or more in arbitration.
Saunders made 33 starts last season and went 12-13 with a 3.69 ERA in 212 innings pitched.
Meanwhile it appears the Mets will tender RHP Mike Pelfrey who is also expected to earn about $5 million or more in arbitration.
Pelfrey made 34 starts last season and went 7-13 with a 4.74 ERA 193.2 innings pitched. Of course, Pelfrey had the luxury of pitching half of his starts in the spacious Citi Field.
Seriously, If I’m the Mets I’d look into acquiring Saunders. He shouldn’t cost much and the D-Backs could be very interested because they wouldn’t get anything for Saunders anyway if they do in fact non-tender him.
If we get him, we could then non-tender Pelfrey and boom, instant upgrade without any added expense. Plus Saunders is a lefty and I’d prefer the southpaw to replace the loss of Chris Capuano anyway.
Thoughts?
About the Author: Drew Staley
On June 1, 2012 Johan Santana officially became my favorite current Met! I'm a Queens native who grew up in the shadows of Big Shea. I was a huge Ron Darling, Dave Magadan and John Olerud fan. Honored to be a part of such a great site for Mets fans. Ya Gotta Believe!
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Honestly, I don’t like it.
On opening day Saunders will be 30 years old, he’s a flyball pitcher and in 2011 he notched 212 innings, K’d 108, walked 67 and gave up 210 hits
On opening day Pelfrey will be 28 years old, besides 2011 he’s been known as a groundball pitcher, and in 193 innings he k’d 3 less batters than Saunders, and walked 2 less batters while giving up 10 more hits.
Just seems like a backwards move to me to be honest. I mean if Pelf slightly improves his numbers are better than Saunders and he’s 2 years younger. Saunders likely won’t get better when he turns 31 in June and with the new dimensions at Citi Field, a flyball guy like Saunders may get hurt from it
If it is a 1 year deal, I don’t see it as that big an issue. Saunders is just flat out performing better. I’d even risk a second year if it came at a decent price.
Do you think the shorter dimensions at Citifield would make it more of a hitters park than Arizona?That place is a hitters paradise so I don’t see how pitching at a smaller Citifield would have an impact on Saunders numbers.
I like that he is a lefty and that he can provide innings to the back end of a rotation but I would like him more as a replacement to Capuano in the rotation than Pelfrey. Still not a bad suggestion Drew (72MetsFan).
Here are the spits between Saunders, Dickey, Pelfrey and Capuano. Not knowing much about Saunders I think the better move would be replacing Capuano with him than Pelfrey.
baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=8vvFf
I think it provides a new look to the division rivals who seem go have Pelf on the ropes , especially on the road. If it’s a salary exchange…why not. If he’ not that good he will probably easier to dump than Pelf because he is a lefty.
Sorry for the typos……..seem to have/easier to dump
I like it,
Saunders has been on a lot of winning squads so he’s been around the block playing in pennant races and experiencing success. 30-32 years old is still fine and a good age to have great season. It happens all the time i’m sure with guys winning Cy Youngs/MVPs in their early 30s. So 30+ Years old is not the poison that it’s FALSELY being pointed out to be lately.
An older Saunders (and not by much) can still give you more quality starts than a younger Pelfrey who just stinks, period. You can be younger and stink regardless. So i’d take Saunders, he knows how to win AND the Mets can either keep him or use him in another trade if they had to,
But that’s of course if you’re trying to compete. And Alderson isn’t doing that so…
I guess my point about age is, they are practically identical in terms of performance except 1 is a groundball guy and 1 is a flyball guy and with the fences being moved in… I just don’t see how it makes sense to REPLACE a younger version of a pitcher with a replica older version?
To say Pelfrey stinks is to say Saunders stinks. So I don’t really get the point of being anti Pelf in this debate.
I agree with NJ if you’re saying he replaces a Capuano then fine… but if you’re telling me he’s replacing Pelfrey, I just don’t get the point.
Who cares if one’s 30 and one’s 28?????? It’s a one year deal and they are both free agents after the season. Saunders is a real pitcher, Pelfrey is a wuss.
And Maniac, a key point to me is Saunders has a lot of experience fighting in pennant races and experiencing success with 2 different teams so to me, if’ i’m wanting to win, that weighs A LOT in my decision making.
Besides Saunders has more trade value than Pelf so you can either keep Saunders OR if you were gonna move Pelf in a deal, now Saunders can help you consummate that deal because he’s better than Pelf regardless of age. The age here makes NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever.
And if Cap doesn’t get a 2 year deal w/another team he could be moved to the bullpen. I think that’s where he best serves if I wanted to compete next year because if he’s moved to the bullpen than that means we solidified our starting pitching.
But that’s not gonna happen because I’m thinking about Winning. Too bad.
Bayonne you don’t seem to understand. Saunders and Pelfrey are practically IDENTICAL pitchers in terms of performance. If you are saying ONE of them stinks, then the other stinks also.
Putting a lipstick on a pig doesn’t make it anything but a pig. Saunders is probably as close to another Pelfrey as you’ll find in MLB.
And lets just assume you and Maniac are right about Saunders’ value in a playoff race, his trade value if it doesn’t work out, Saunders being a “real” pitcher etc.
Why would Arizona, a team that won a division last year want to not bring him back for $5mil?
Depends on how they feel about their chances of returning and actually winning a series. Remember, just because you win the West doesn’t mean you’re that good.
I hear ya, I’m just saying… aren’t the DBacks “trying” to win now? If Saunders does so much for that mission, why not tender him for $5mil?
I just think this will come as another ridiculous attempt to draw a line in the sand. Nevermind the fact that Pelfrey is Joe Saunders only 2 years younger….wanna bring Saunders in to take the role filled by Cap? Sure… but you don’t replace a guy with his twin and expect anything except the exact same results.
Nevermind the fact that Pelfrey is Joe Saunders only 2 years younger…
Really, you think they are the same??
Saunders is left-handed, Pelfrey is not.
Saunders 3.69 ERA vs Pelfrey 4.74 * Over a run higher!
Saunders career .570 winning pct. vs Pelfrey .480 W%
Saunders Road ERA 3,14 vs, Pelfrey 5.49 away from Citi
Saunders 9 SB allowed – 12 CS vs. Pelfrey 29 SB Allowed – 2 CS
Saunders 49 Balk+WP+HBP vs Pelfrey 65 Balk+WP+HBP in 100 less innings pitched.
Yeah they’re the same all right. Only in your mind.
Maniac:
“Saunders is left-handed, Pelfrey is not.”
Okay? I mean, noted but does I feel like this excuse is one used to say Ollie P will come around. Don’t get me wrong I recognize the value of a lefty, but performance is performance.
“Saunders 3.69 ERA vs Pelfrey 4.74 * Over a run higher!”
So tell me if this convo was after the 2010 season would this point matter? Of course not.
“Saunders career .570 winning pct. vs Pelfrey .480 W%”
Saunders has been on the Angels and a division winning DBacks… Pelfrey has been on the Mets. This point shows me nothing.
“Saunders Road ERA 3,14 vs, Pelfrey 5.49 away from Citi”
I get the point of this but you don’t even know how Saunders would fare in cold weather environments as his home park in April May and September. Do you?
In 2008 Saunders won 17 games and played in a much more pitcher friendly park (Anaheim) than AZ, and his ERA was 2 runs higher at home. Maybe he just didn’t pitch well in his home park?
“Saunders 9 SB allowed – 12 CS vs. Pelfrey 29 SB Allowed – 2 CS”
Valid point except last year Pelf gave up 12 SB so clearly there is a problem that can be fixed no?
“Saunders 49 Balk+WP+HBP vs Pelfrey 65 Balk+WP+HBP in 100 less innings pitched.”
Balk + WP + HBP? Really? Is this the stat we use when their BB are too similar? I don’t think I’ve ever heard a GM get a pitcher and say “we love his lack of balks”
I’m not saying Saunders isn’t a good pitcher. I’m saying if you go get him and think he’s REPLACING Pelfrey, you’re going to find he is an older lefty version of Mike Pelfrey.
855 Hits versus 831 Hits
435 K versus 426 K
263 BB 248 BB
782.2 IP versus 799.1 IP
129 GS versus 128 GS
63 HR Allowed versus 104 HR Allowed
45 W versus 54 W
62 SB versus 54 SB
You don’t have to be smug about it. They are VERY close in terms of their performance from 2008 through last year are they not?
That’s not an upgrade, that’s a lateral movement.
Yeah forgive me. What was I thinking. You are right. Pelfrey and Saunders are clones. Somebody give jessep an award. As you can see he clearly and objectively made his case. I’m now convinced we need to re-sign Pelfrey before he becomes a free agent. 4 years/$65 should get it done. Thanks for straightening me out jessep.
And again everybody here knows the reasons to non tender Pelfrey right?
So why non tender Saunders if you’re the Arizona Diamondbacks?
More thoughts on it from a Yankees blog and I kinda feel like they need SP right? Not saying they are “right” just saying its not so cut and dry as “absolutely get him!”
http://riveraveblues.com/2011/10/mailbag-joe-saunders-58012/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+RiverAveBlues+%28River+Ave.+Blues%29
Lastly from AZ Republic
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/2011/11/13/20111113arizona-diamondbacks-joe-saunders-unclear-future.html
Seems like they are going to wait to last second to decide and only will let him go if they feel they can’t get better than him for what he will get in arby.
1) don’t think too much
2) don’t put words in peoples mouths, Mr. Slippery e.g. If I say Pelf stinks i’m NOT saying Saunders stinks.
that’s y people HATE talking w/you. Don’t put words in people’s mouths.
Of course the slithering eel skips over the part about experience winning and being in pennant races often.
But don’t worry our resident Dr. Smith will spin my words, re-interpret them in his brain and spit out his version of what he thinks i’m saying and all that other slimy, slithering, sneaky stuff he does.
Good idea 72. Glad to see a good baseball opinion based on common sense.
Pelfrey would probably thrive in a smaller market and could use a change of scenery. He’s 28 and is still the same bundle of nerves he was 5 years ago. I like Saunders because he has done well in Los Angeles winning 16 and 17 games and knows how to bear down in a big spot. I’d be all for this, good post.
Nick Cafardo also said that the Cubs will listen to trade offers for Matt Garza in an effort to restock their farm system and unless Epstein or Hoyer demands either Wheeler or Harvey in the prospect package back for Garza, I would prefer Sandy pursue that avenue to truly improve the Met SP rotation. Of course, if Sandy swings a trade for Garza, then trade or non tender Pelfrey.
We should non tender Pelfrey he isn’t worth a dime. We should look at acquiring Saunders and a few other low risk high reward pitchers. Solidify our bullpen and a solid closer. Yes our offense takes a big hit with Reyes if he leaves but with the fences moved in that should definitely help Wright, Bay, Davis and Duda. If we address our pitching issues I see no reason why we can’t knock on the door next year for the wild card. Your thoughts!?
I think this would be an absolute no brainer simply by subtracting the weak of mind Pelfrey.Saunders is more consistent than Pelfrey and doesn’t have mental breakdowns on the mound.I can’t see how anyone would actually not want to replace Pelfrey.The guy needs a change of scenery and we need to finally part ways with him.
I would rather give guys in their 20′s a shot and save the money, I guess that means pass on both of them, but between the two of them, I’d give Pelf a fighting chance of turning things around.
Saunders might have a good year or two in him, but he’s on the decline.
Maybe the mets should keep pelf & saunders and send Gee back to AAA as a back-up plan for injuries. The problem may be that the changes in LF dimensions will hurt lefthanded pitchers since the 358 ft LF wall is way too short of a distance. Right handed pitchers, basically the top 4 mets pitching prospects, will still benefit from a deep wall in RF but Santana, Niese, and any other lefty that is not a strikeout pitcher will see their homeruns allowed number jump. Left Center wall should have been set at a distance more reasonable, like 370-375 ft.
This is really a non-issue. They’re pretty much exactly the same pitcher. Pelfrey’s career ERA/FIP/xFIP is 4.40/4.24/4.52 and Saunders’ is 4.16/4.65/4.52. Pelf has a .277 BA against and a 1.46 WHIP and Saunders has a .271 and 1.37. Pelf has a 1.57 K/BB and Saunders has a 1.75.
The only real difference in the two are their agents, which frankly is a big deal. But I would take the risk that Pelfrey gets lucky in 2012 like he did in 2010 and maybe is worth a decent prospect or two in July. Saunders has been consistently average in his career while Pelfrey has had ups and downs. Here’s hoping this next season is an up and tricks people.