There has been much debate since the season ended for the Mets, on whether the Mets should get a first baseman or stick with Daniel Murphy.
Here is how Daniel Murphy ranks among all qualifying National League first baseman with 450 or more at-bats.
As you can see from the above chart, Murphy is woefully deficient in not just one or two offensive areas, but all of them.
I found it odd that some saber friendly Mets fans are so quick to defend Murphy on his inability to draw walks and wonder if they applied a double standard where Jeff Francoeur was concerned this season. Murphy’s walks worsened significantly in the second half, registering just 13 passes compared to 25 in the first half.
The fact is that Daniel Murphy ranks last in OPS, On-Base Percentage, Batting Average, Walk Rate, and Runs Scored.
He ranks second to last place in Slugging Percentage, Homeruns and Runs Batted In.
There doesn’t seem to be one area in the offensive department that would justify and support an argument for keeping his job at first base. There doesn’t seem to be a defensive argument either despite this new fangled stat that suggested he was the second best defensive first baseman in the league. (I’m not kidding.)
At best, Murphy appears to be a poor mans Eddie Kranepool, who set the bar for below average first baseman who were able to stay gainfully employed as a starting first baseman.
His on-base percentage suggests that he should be nowhere near the top of the order.
His slugging percentage suggests that he is not a middle of the order bat either.
So why the fuss over a player who is ideally a 7 or 8 hitter at best in the Mets lineup?
Can we please focus on getting a legitimate power bat at first base in the off season, and leave Daniel Murphy either on the bench or back in AAA where he most likely belongs?
*Mets Merized Online Needs Your Help*
I think the reasoning behind the support is the UZR fielding rating that popped up a few days ago that claims Murphy is the 2nd best defender at 1st base in the NL in 2009. Personally, I don’t buy it. Even on the remote chance that he is better with the glove than he looks, his woeful offense outweighs any defensive positive. Some have suggested Kevin Kouzmanoff or Mike Jacobs. Either one makes some sense, but I just don’t know. What they need is a decent stopgap there until Ike Davis is ready. Has everyone forgotten about him already? Maybe keeping Murphy there for 2 months or so isn’t so bad for 2010 because that might be all the time Davis needs to be ready to take over. Just a thought.
Ike Davis had one god awful year followed by one good year. Lets see how he does with a full season of AA before we get too excited.
If you were pitching to Beltran or Wright, which on-deck batter would concern you more, Daniel Murphy or Carlos Delgado? Case closed.
Pops
Great logic. Murphy must suck because he hasn’t had a borderline hall of fame career at age 24 when asked to replace the injured borderline hall of famer midseason.
He’s also near the bottom, OPS wise, among second baseman too.
Have you guys seen Bernie Williams 1st full year stats? What if the yankees would have given up on him?
At least Bernie Williams could catch a flyball.
DANIEL MURPHY CAN’T LIGHT A CANDLE NEXT TO BERNIE.
I don’t care what those stats say.
Great post JoeD. In my opinion, the only logical course of action is to roll up Murphy in a trade to fill one of the Mets needs for 2010. There is no way he should be a starting 1B. This chart also shows how silly it was for the Mets to be hitting him in the cleanup slot as often as they did in 2009. That was another result of the fact that Manuel does not use stats in determining who plays. Just goes to show that not only do we need a new 1B, we need a new field manager as well. The Mets as currently constituted have too many 7 and 8 hitters to make up a ML lineup. One of the first actions to improve is to reduce the number of 7 and 8 hitters we have and that is to trade off Dan Murphy asap.
Why trade Murphy? He’s a cheap part for the bench, who still has minor league options remaining. Do you really think many teams will value him as anything other than a beach piece? What exactly do you think you could get for him in a trade? Keep Murph as that low cost plan B or C and start him in Buffalo if you have to. Trading off every guy like him they have is why the Mets had no depth in AAA.
You can sit him on the bench if you like, but he doesn’t belong in the starting lineup. I don’t propose he be traded straight up since obviously you won’t get anything for him. He should be rolled into a trade with other players for a player who will actually fill a need. Sending him back to AAA after all the time he has had is pretty much admitting he has no value.
Its allowing him to get regular AB’s while he’s not starting in the majors. There are plenty of guys who went back down to the minors for this exact reason (Chris Carpenter, Roy Halladay) and still have plenty of value. Nelson Cruz couldn’t break into the majors until he was 28, does he have value? His best value to the Mets will be in AAA where he’s not collecting ML service time (see Bucholtz, Clay).
Carpenter and Halladay are established players sent back for a “tune-up”. Murphy is a young player who’s ego will be shattered going back and most likely will never recover. Nelson Cruz came back based on his superior talents and skills which Murphy does not match. All just my guess.
To make this fair and more balanced, how about posting the other listed first basemens first or rookie season and then compare them to what Dan did this year in his rookie year. To compare him to the other established major league first baseman is unfair!
The question is did YOU look up the first full seasons of the first basemen on that list?
Start at the top with Pujols (.329 – 37 – 130)and work your way down to Loney who hit .331.
You know who does match Murphy?
Eddie Kranepool!!! .257 ba – .310 obp – .393 slg
Great post Joe and spot on!
Before you posed the question, you would have done well to look at those rookie seasons yourself. Murphy compares horribly again. Why do most Mets fans thing every Mets prospect is headed for Cooperstown? If Murphy had played for the Royals and the Mets were going after him in a trade, their would be outrage and riots in the street.
Obviously you are new to rooting for the Mets as anyone with a rudimentary grasp of Mets history would now the contributions of Eddie Kranepool to the 1969 World Champion Mets and the 1973 NL Champs as well, not to mention towards the latter part of Kranepool’s career he was the premier pinch hitter in baseball.
As for Murphy I’m glad all the amateur talent evaluators are having their fun maybe when Murphy gets dealt away and has a solid ML career you can all go over your evaluations to see where you screwed up
With all due respect for Kranepool’s moderate accomplishments, in 18 seasons he only topped 50 runs scored once, averaged 9 homers a seaso (14 his best), never had 60 RBI, and had a career OBP of .316 and SLG of .377. He was far below the first basemen of his era. He batted .143 in the post season. All I remember of Eddie was he seemed to be a good pinch hitter in his final years. As far as comparisons go, Murphy’s numbers are more in line with Kranepool than any of the other players in that chart. In fact, they are clones.
I defend Murphy.
Here’s my reasons. We are treating him like we need him to bat 3rd, 4th, or 5th but in reality we don’t. Yes most baseball teams have a strong bat (one those 3rd, 4th, or 5th) guys at first base but the Mets are lucky enough that they don’t need that. Next season they will have Wright, Beltran, and Francoeur. But most likely, if things play out how ownership is talking, we would will have Wright, Beltran, *New Bat*, Francoeur. Meaning that Murphy is now 7th in the lineup.
The other scenario is that lineup you bat Murphy 2nd. Yes Murphy has problems walking, but he is going to get a lot of pitches in the strikezone if Wright, Beltran, *New Bat*, and Francoeur are all behind him.
When it comes down to it, this was Murphy’s first full season where he had to take on more responsibility than originally planned. His numbers the second half of the season were much better than the first (about the same time when HoJo talked to him about his process at the plate) and that also occured when the Mets really had no offensive powerhouses in the lineup.
Murphy OBP first half .313, second half .312.
Your post is right on. Who would bat cleanup this year if not Murphy? Omir Santos, Angel Pagan, Alex Cora or any other SS, Luis Castillo, Gary Sheffield (he did until he was hurt). David Wright hit 3rd, Jeff Franceur 5th. Also, Nick Johnson is mentioned as a 1st basemen. This year he got hurt again and then was 0 for 20+ and Ross Gload played along with Wes Helms against LH. Finally, Orlando Hudson is available again, but he lost his job to Ronnie Belliard. The Mets need help. but they don’t need Johnson or Hudson. Keep Murphy and bat him 7th.
Thank you! Perhaps the tide is changing. Would Murphy be an acceptable #7 hitter? Maybe, but your first baseman is supposed to be an offensive player especially if he has a poor glove! No power,no walks and most importantly no position. 1B is the position the Mets can most easily improve. Let Murphy learn how to play 1B and LF in Buffalo.
hese folks who claim to understand stats and have a double standard relative to francoeur dont really understand stats. murphy is awful and should be in the minors.
Greetings. Good to see an intelligent life form on this thread.
I have to disagree. Murphy isn’t horrible. Murphy had a difficult year. I think he’s a better hitter than last year would tell you. Last year, he had to struggle with playing two positions he really hadn’t played before (he’s a third baseman by trade). In addition, for a majority of the year, he had relatively no protection in the lineup (as did Wright).
Am I saying that I’d be comfortable with the 2009 Murphy playing first next year? No. But I’m comfortable with him keeping the spot warm as Davis gets up to speed or the Mets can acquire an appropriate replacement. From what I can see, I’m not impressed with this year’s free agent first basemen.
I’d be comfortable with Murphy manning first if they get the *big bat* in left field.
chris carter is a far better option.
It is not fair because the article is based on his full season when Murphy not only continued to improve as the season went on but he had to also get over his emotional problem for failing to do good in fielding at LF. He is a player that goes all out. So when he fails it is a big thing to kind of person. So when that happened he must have been heartbroken at that time which had to have an effect on his hitting.
Then he must have had the same effect of doing it all over again when they then put him on 1st base.
What are his states after he settled in at 1st base. Obviously there was a big enough difference then the whole entire season. And his slugging was one of the best on the team. Especially in September, when he started to hit the long ball. And if he did that all season long he would have somewhere in the mid 20 homers next year.
OK then Met fans use him in a trade while he is still like a rookie player, and then watch him be an outstanding player for another team.
His hitting sucked all year! September numbers mean NOTHING!
Really Emilio? September stats mean NOTHING?!? Ask any real Mets fan who watched the September collapses in the 2007 and 2008 season if September stats mean nothing.
Let me be clearer….September stats when your team is elminated by June mean NOTHING!
Especially for a guy who has a history of producing Sept stats in 2008 and then regressed in 2009. Will he build on his 2009 Sept stats or regress once again in 2010? Personally I think he’s due to repeat with regression.
One reason that there is a double standard is that Murphy showed good plate discipline last year, while Francoeur never really showed great plate discipline. However, it may be a small sample size. We don’t know the real Murphy yet, while we do know the real Francoeur.
So your saying that at age 25 Francoeur is what he is and wont improve, and at age 24 for Murphy the world is his oyster? Thats real smart.
I wonder how old Murphy will be before he gets 400 RBI’s, 30, 31, 32?
what I was saying is that Murphy had a season where he actually walked, and Francoeur never has. I wasn’t comparing RBI’s (which is a bs stat, I was just responding to what Joe D said about there being a double standard. Maybe you should actually read stuff before you reply.
My mistake AG. I see your point now.
[...] D from Metsmerized Online feels that Daniel Murphy is the “poor man’s Eddie [...]
I didnt intend for this post to be an indictment on Kranepool who was an ultimate Met and an origianl one too. I simply wanted to use Eddie as a comparison for what we saw of Murphy this season. In fact I called Murphy the poor mans Eddie Kranepool and not the other way around. Every Mets fan knows exactly where Kranepool ranked among his contemporaries at first base, and it’s a little better than where Murphy ranked in his first season which was dead last.
All these pro Murphy sentiments are no different than the pro-Jacobs ones before we traded him. History wrote the rest of that story. Time will tell the rest of Murphy’s story, but the first chapter has already been written and it’s not that good.
i like that you are so willing to selectively apply statistics. you like francouer, but are not high on murphy. you stupidly argue that nick johnson is bad defensively, then use fielding stats in your argument. later, you derided the very same fielding stats in another thread, saying they are not important.
if murphy is not good, then why? stats? then why cant you use your understanding of stats and apply that to francouer? the answer is because you do not understand the game at all. you have antiquated notions of how “grit” is important and are almost completely clueless about what makes a team score runs.
i mean, i had to explain to you what OPS+ is. and you call yourself a baseball writer?
I didn know that OPS+ is also now the standard for blogging too. Saber heads are taking over the world. Run for cover! By the way, I’ve never called myself a writer. I’m just a regular guy, throwing out my regular opinions, like anybody else would do hanging out at a bar and watching the game.
Let me make this very clear. I’m not sold on many of these new stats. Everyone who reads my blogs knows that. Live with it because I’m not changing anytime soon. When I see Billy Beane holding a World Series trophy I’ll reconsider my stand on the Moneyball revolution that is turning traditional baseball on its head.
I blog about anything I want, it’s one of the luxuries of starting a blog. If I feel that the Mets could do better at first base than Daniel Murphy as a regular, that’s what I’ll blog about. I blog for my enjoyment not yours. I’m humbled that so many people tune in to read my thoughts, rants and raves, even you. Thanks for the comment.
Uhh, Theo Epstein and the Red Sox won 2 world series, using the same application as Billy Beane used in moneyball.
“Saber heads are taking over the world. Run for cover!”
Nice, real classy.
That was in response to “i had to explain to you what OPS+ is. and you call yourself a baseball writer?”
Damn, everybody is so touchy today… lol
Joe D did you actually read my comment about how the Red Sox have won 2 world series using statistical analysis?
You shouldn’t have to defend yourself Joe. I dont always agree with you but I respect and enjoy reading your opinions. I also believe that between you and the rest of the writers on this site, all opinions are represented and fairly balanced.
your “i’m a regular guy who doesnt understand stats” argument is a decent one. but i do think you should do a little reading. there are real rational ways to determine runs created, and they should be used when analyzing a player. they are not just wild theories by calculator-wielding dorks. players with superior OPS/VORP simply score more runs. a player with a better OPS is better than one with a worse OPS and more “grit”. jeff francouer is demonstrably abysmal. daniel murphy is also terrible. chris carter is decent and better than both.
“he plays lots of games” is not an argument in favor of a player unless he plays well in those games. this seems to be something people here dont understand.
what the mets need to do is analyze players rationally. this means not signing francouer for 3 yrs. it means not signing mike jacobs. it means keeping beltran and reyes even if people think they are soft.
Martin, Perhaps you could write an article here describing the basics of sabremetrics and explaining the various metrics. Many of us understands portions of it, but get lost when discussions of the newer metrics come along. I think that would help get some common understanding between the readers here and be a positive contribution.
Yeah, cause advancements in mathematics have been a detriment to the world around while blind faith has created heaven on earth. You’re not sold on these new stats, you may very well not be sold on evolution or global warming, but just because you don’t trust the math and science behind them doesn’t mean the math and science is wrong.
The wheel sucks too. Humanity existed for thousands of years without it, why do we need it?
I’m a big fan of glamor boy Murphy…..if he’s coming off the bench.
I believe it’s the Yankee fans disguised as Mets fans who want Murphy to be our regular 1st baseman.
No Mets fan in his right mind will want this dude Murphy at first on a regular basis.
and BTW:
Murphy should be honored to be compared with Eddie Kranepool, and I believe that Murphy can be a great pinch hitter just like Eddie Kranepool.
well said Greg. why on earth would we want this guy as a regular starter on 1st? if we can’t use Murph as trade bait, send him to the bench or AAA where he could be properly evaluated.
I agree with you Greg. Keep Murphy, but lets understand he’s basically a pinch hitter and utility first baseman at best.
One question to all those that would defend Murphy with such vigor: why keep him if we can use him in a trade that would brings us a high end power bat or #2 starter? why would we keep him as a starting 1B to “see if he improves”? AAA is the place for improvement, not the bigs folks. I totally agree with Joe, can we just focus on getting some of our needs taken care of and the Murphy story play out?
Who exactly wants Dan Murphy for a high end bat? Who would ask for him in a trade for a #2 starter? Why trade for those types of players when they are available in Free agncy, allowing guys like Murph to be in AAA in case of injury? The biggest issue with the way the current Mets is that they have been built by trading all of their non blue chip prospects for established stars. Delgado, LoDuca, Johan, Castillo, Schnieder..all of these guys cost players that would have helped alot when the injuries hit. What if the Mets had signed Carlos Pena instead of trading for Delgado? Signing a stopgap catcher and outfielder instead of trading for Church and Schnieder? Waited and signed Johan when he became a free agent a year later? Not traded so many capable players for Putz? With the exception of Johan, the Mets could have filled every on of those holes with players at least as good as they acquired (and not any more expensive) by signing free agents. If the Mets want to build a great franchise, they ned to use their financial strength as an advantage that allows them to build a good farm.
I never said and do not feel we could trade Murphy by himself for any high end player. I am only stating to use him as a PART of a trade that will bring a power hitter or #2 starter. I do afree with you that we need to build up a strong farm system, and maybe if we had a GM worth a dime we might have a better farm system than we currently have. But I still say, if we have an opportunity to fill some of the needs in the Mets lineup, using Murphy or ANY of the so/so players we should do it. If trades are made wisely, unlike some of the ones you name like Putz, we could be contenders. In addition, having a strong team gives management some room/time to concentrate on the minor league system.
Ace, I totally agree with your point of view on Murphy. His only value to us, in my opinion, is to be rolled into a trade for a real player that will fill a hole on the team, whether that be an SP, a LF, a catcher, or a professional 1B. He can’t be traded 1 for 1, but should be part of a package deal. It’s almost a waste to send him back to AAA as that admits his value is not ML quality after having an entire season on the Big League rosther. He should not be s starter and has more value in the AL as a DH.
If hitting ihis issue, how do you reach the conclusion that he’d be a valuable DH?
Hitting is a problem, but fielding is the bigger problem because it reduces his flexibility as a beench player. He’s not a starter. At best he’s a bench player or a DH. The problem with him as a bench player is that he’s not versatile on the field. He can’t play OF. He can’t play IF except marginally at 1B. So what good is he? He’s a DH at best. He needs to be rolled into a trade to the AL, hopefully the Blue Jays. You should take every opportunity to trade away a non-versatile bench player. The only indispensable bench player is one that is truly versatile at many positions. Murphy is not that.
Isn’t the point of this article that his bat isn’t good enough to play at first, even though he’s adequate defensively? How does making him a DH improve his value if it’s his bat thats hurting it?
Scmidtxc, It’s my contention that he’s just not good enough to be a starter. The article shows how he doesn’t compare well at batting. But, he’s no great shakes defensively, because he is unable to play nearly every position. The Mets are hiding him on the field by playing him at 1B. He is essentially a bench player with no versatility due to his limitations to man a position on the field. You want a bench player to be versatile and he is not. The best thing to do with such a player is unload him to another team. The only thing he can do is DH, so he needs to go to the AL. His fielding limitations limit his career potential severely.
The UZR isn’t something that just “popped up,” it’s been around all year, and Murphy has in fact played good defense. Mental mistakes aside, he made very few errors (which went down as he got used to the position) played aggressively with throws to second, and showed good range.
Why can’t people give this guy a chance? You’re being ridiculous comparing him to the rookie season of Pujols. Yeah, compare him to a top-5 ALL TIME right handed hitter.
Not every player is an All-Star in their first season. Some guys need to develop. Murphy’s ceiling obviously has never been that high, but he can certainly develop into a solid, ~.290, 18 homer, 75 rbi guy in the right lineup.
Good defense? I guess all the errors he saddled Wright, Castillo, Cora and Martinez with because of his bad footwork and glovework dont count.
Not to mention how clueless he is most of the time.
Also, who compared him to Pujols? From what I read he was compared to Kranepool.
Errors is a terrible way to measure a players defense. Range is much more important and players with more range are more likely to make errors because they are getting to balls further away from them. Just to make my point quickly, Keith Hernandez is the greatest defensive first basemen in history and he made 10 errors or more (by the way, Murphy made 10 errors at first this year) six times in his career. Errors only tell you a very limited part of a players defense and the rest that you see with your eyes can be extremely misleading. Murphy was an excellent first basemen this year, it’s about the only thing he did well. UZR is the best stat we have to measure defense, but just because it disagrees with your perception does not make it invalid.
Why is it a terrible way? For over 100 years baseball measured defense with errors and range, why the big change all of a sudden? I dont see any of these metrics being used in the other big three sports. I heard Bob Costas say that most of these new stats are the creation of agents who attempt to made medicore players shine in arbitration and what they have succeeded in doing is escalate salaries.
Truer words have never been spoken. Costas is the last guardian of baseball’s best traditions.
Costas is an idiot
This post by Evan S. might be the one of the worst posts I’ve ever seen in MetsMerized in that it reeks of NO baseball intuition whatsoever. It is purely the result of a newer generation of saber/techno geeks who sit at home and interpret life through numbers.
Devin, great job in pointing out that Bob Costas had noted that all this new number crap is good for is for agents to use as a tool to show a baseball clueless judge how much money their client is worth.
“saber/techno geeks”
do you read what you write? Did you you even read Evan_S’s comment? No baseball intuition? Are you serious? UZR is the best stat for fielding because it uses play by play data. It’s not that hard to understand. You, sir are the one with no baseball intuition.
Daniel Murphy is gorgeous. I’d rather look at him than any other Met, David Wright included (sorry David! You are cute too!) Hey, I need some kind of entertainment, with how badly the Mets played this year! I mean, why else would I put on the game, if not to see his hot body and sexy face!
lol! nice
I’m curious which saber-inclined Met fans have “defended” Murphy. I know that when you write about sabermetrics you’re referring directly to Amazin’ Avenue and I’m pretty sure no one there has been a big Murphy apologist. Your writing would be much stronger if you actually provided a link as an example of someone utilizing this “double standard.”
It might also be fun to do this same exercise for Jeff Francoeur, comparing his numbers the past couple years to other right fielders. Just a suggestion.
I couldn’t resist – here are the numbers of Daniel Murphy and Jeff Francoeur this season:
Murphy: .266/.313/.427
Francoeur: .280/.309/.423, in 632 plate appearances
BTW, those numbers are batting average/OBP/SLG. OBP = on-base percentage and SLG = slugging percentage.
Francoeur is your favorite player basically and in this piece you totally rip Murphy. And you want to talk about “double standards?”
This response is to James K.
What do your eyes tell you?
That’s how I learned the game of baseball. That’s how I learned to be a youth baseball coach. That’s how I learned to be a youth basball manager.
- My eyes tell me that Jeff Francoeur is all-around better ballplayer that you know what he is capable of.
- My eyes tell me that Daniel Murphy could be a better hitter in time, but it sometimes just doesn’t work that way. We will see.
- My experience tells me you’re most likely not going to have a contender with someone like Murphy learning 1B.
- My experience tells me that teams with accomplished and experienced first basemen who have honed their craft and have made that position their career choice are the GLUE to a good infield
- My eyes tell me that Daniel Murphy is nowhere as smart a ballplayer as Jeff Francoeur
The only similarity between these 2 guys is that they are players with lousy on base percentages.
As baseball players, you can’t compare them.
Other than that, I have no numbers to back up my post. Just eyes and experience.
All these stupid numbers and UZR’s and things like – they are a lazy man’s way to tell himself that he THINKS he knows the game.
Mr. Bayonne Mets Fan, what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Making sense is incoherent and insane? I guess it is to one of the newer generation androids who can’t think with the rear part of their brain and have no sense about instincts
My instincts tell me you have terrible instinct if you think Francoeur is a vastly superior player than Murphy. I’m curious to hear your other baseball opinions. Is Reyes a winner? Would you trade Beltran for Victorino? Is David Wright grinder-er-ey enough to ever win a World Series? Is heart more important than talent. I eagerly await your responses.
I agree with Joe and Bayonne. Murphy cannot be a 1st baseman for a contender. Send him to triple A or to the bench, or throw him in a deal for someone.
And James K., shut up. All you ever do is complain and call people idiotic and stuff like that, and it’s annoying.
If you wouldn’t say such idiodic things, nobody would call you idiotic.
Schmidtxc, no one called me an idiot, so if you could read, maybe YOU wouldn’t be an idiot.
What would you think of bringing in David Eckstein for the bench?
His Grission Runs Above Replacement would lead us to the division
I happen to be a youth baseball manager too. And you know what, I use stats like OBP to set up my lineup. So, by using advanced metrics to find good players and such are you calling Theo Epstein lazy? Billy Beane lazy? Andrew Friedman of the Rays lazy? Because they’re less lazy then you.
I wonder why you’ve worked in a front office, cause you have some great ideas.
/sarcasm
JamesK, Bubba, there are three kinds of lies: small, big, and stats.
I look to see players who play smart BB. Francoeur plays smarter BB than Murph. Murph is young, so is Frenchie. When Murph plays smarter BB and better D, I will favor him more than I do.
In his current state, I would rather not suffer him as an everyday Met. At this level, he cannot help us win a division title or WC.
Well said Joe! Mets fans the numbers speak for themselves. Not only that….anyone who watched this team all season saw enough of Daniel Murphy. I have seen enough of the bad footwork at 1st and in LF…terrible glove…terrible arm and mediocre hitting.
Anyone who defends him is clueless and accepts the status quo for this franchise…..500 baseball or just playing “meaningful” baseball in september.
Enough is enough….I want my parade up Broadway! I am sick of the Mets making poor baseball decisions. For a New York Franchise with a New Stadium and a 150 million dollar payroll….23 years without a Title is sad.
Its time to wake up!
Emilio, Yes! With a team of Dan Murphys, there will be no championships in the future for the Mets. We nedd to fill the holes in the team with quality players and 1B is still one of those holes.
Joe, how did Derrek Lee do in his 1st full season in MLB?
.233 17hr 74 rbi .732 OPS
How about Adam Dunn?
.249 26hr 71rbi .854 OPS
LaRoche has been in the majors now since 07 and has just gotten 500 AB
Nick Johnson in his 1st full yr
.243 15/58 .749 OPS
my point isn’t that he can one day be these guys. My point is when you compare a 24 yr old in his 1st season to guys like Albert Pujols and Ryan Howard in the prime of their career, of course you’ll get the results you want.
Jessep, I agree with you, maybe Murphy eventually becomes something worthwhile.
There’s too much going on in this thread. I’m not comparing Murphy to any individual in the chart, just showing where he ranked in the NL.
We only have Beltran for another year, Reyes too, Santana is getting older, are we a win now team?
Or are we rebuilding?
If we are a win now team, we stand a better chance of winning with any other first baseman in the NL than Murphy right now.
If we are rebuilding, than trade Beltran for some top prospects unless you want him to retire a Met, then give him an extension.
Win now than upgrade at first base, win five years from now than keep Murphy and we’ll wait for him to grow into something.
I think what the Mets decide to do with Murphy is a huge indication of how we look to the future. If we want to allow time for rookies to mature and develop, then lets stick with Muprhy. If we want to ‘win now’ then Murphy has to go.
I am glad to see some people questioning Francouer. He’s okay, maybe slightly better then ok, but many fans are turning him into a reincarnation of Ted Williams (with his head still attached.) As soon as Francouer arrived, we were in love with him. Why?
He’s good and he’s an improvement over what we had. But lets take a step back for a moment.
Over the last 2 decades the Braves have just just a wee bit better at evaluating talent then we have. (Sarcasm) If Francouer had potential, would they have been willing to part with him? AND to a team in the same division?
It would seem to me that we first need to come to an agreement as to what Murphy will project as a hitter in 1-3 yrs before agreeing on his immediate role with the Mets.
I see Murphy as a solid .280 line drive gap hitter with low to moderate power. Murphy’s lack of speed and inability to provide consistent reliable defense at multiple positions hurt his value. Doesn’t anyone find it strange that Murphy hasn’t played one game at 2rd base for the Mets despite being drafted as a 3rd baseman and playing 3rd base at AA?
Obviously the Mets were aware of Murphy’s unreliable defense when they promoted him in 2009. Strange. Its difficult to understand how the Mets see Murphy in their long term plans.
Can you even imagine what a disaster Murphy would be at the hot corner? The Mets have know for quite sometime that Murphy is a man without a position. They shit-canned the second base experiment when they got a first hand look at his weak reflexes, bad instincts and poor judgement in left field. All it took was a month to shelve the talk of playing second base. Murphy is a DH plain and simple. His best defensive position is on the bench where he wont cost his team any games with his lack of any pure defensive ability.
opps. meant to type “has not played one game at 3rd base for the Mets despite being drafted as a 3rd baseman and playing 3rd base at AA.
Joe, you hit the nail on the head. This is a WIN NOW team, no question about it. How long do people think Beltran will continue to be productive on those gimpy knees? Why trade for Santana or K-Rod if you’re not a WIN NOW team?
We don’t have the luxury of waiting 2-3 years to see what Murphy will become. We do know what he is now, and that’s the worst offensive first baseman in the NL.
Trade Ike Davis in a Roy Halladay deal along with Parnell, and whatever else they want.
Ike Davis is a fluke and we should trade him before he reverts back to what we saw in 2008 when many labeled him a bust. He hit a few deep flies in 09 in a smaller park but is still the same free swinger with the gaping hole in his swing.
Keep Daniel Murphy and see how he develops as a hitter. I like the way he takes plenty of pitches and once he’s able to hit that inside fastball, he can become a consistent .290 hitter. He is already among the best defensive first baseman in the league if not all of baseball according to a report I read. He could end up having a career similar to Keith Hernandez. Mex never had the typical power bat, but made up for it with his superb defence and his great skills as a hitter, especially in the clutch. I like Murphy’s enthusiasm.
With the Mets set at first base for the next 6-7 years, we don’t need Ike Davis so lets get something for him while we still can.
So two months of him sucking, in his first year of pro ball mind you, trumps the spectacular year he had this year? Did you the FSL is a notorious pitchers league, in fact Nieuwenhuis led the FSL in OPS with .824. Before being promoted to AA, Davis had a .863 OPS in 59 games with St. Lucie. There’s a reason he was the Mets top pick in the draft and it’s that he can hit. Will he be solid player, will eh flame out, no one can answer that definitively, but as of now, he is one of the top first base prospects in baseball and let’s at least wait until the AFL starts and ends before we make any more judgments on him.
So Ike Davis sucks and will never develop into a major leaguer, but you want to pencil Dan Murphy in at first for the next 6-7 years? Are these those “instincts” that are so much better than statistical evaluation?
How many first baseman is this organization going to keep and hang on to. From the looks of most of these comments Daniel Murphy should be the first baseman. So why keep Ike Davis of Chris Carter for that matter. If everyone is so high on Murphy, lets use the depth at first base to fill another hole, namely starting pitching. I dont know where you stand on Daniel Murphy with regard to this post, but it seems most of those who commented want Murphy as the Mets everyday first baseman. Are you familiar with the concept of dealing from strength?
My take on Murph is that he’s a decent (and minimum salaried) bench piece or good AAA depth with options remaining which is ready to be called up if needed. This season should highlight the importance of having those types of players in the organization. The Mets trade all of these types of players and end up with much more expensive depth like Cora, Marlon Anderson, Franco, and Tatis. Spend in free agency on starters, and keep minimum salary guys like Murph to round out the roster. This lets you get better quality starters and develop depth in the minors.
Ike Davis is probably the most advanced young player we have in the minors at this time. We should be working to make him our regular 1B by 2011 at the latest. If we keep Dan Murphy, it would only be as a stopgap until Ike is ready. Better would be to just trade Murphy off in a package for what we can get. Ike is more valuable to this franchise than Murphy.
1. Murphy started out the season pretty good for rookie. Then the book got out on him, plus he struggled mightily in the field.
2. His initial success (I’m talking the first couple months of the season, here) was decent for a rookie. And remember, he had a few other bats protecting him in the lineup as well.
3. He absolutely sucked offensively for most of the season. His 2009 totals reflect that. But then they found a position he could actually play with some degree of competence, and his hitting started to come around as well. He works hard, has some natural talent, and by September had started to figure things out again.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/9r7u8
4. Is he The Answer? God no, but I think he merits a chance. Of course, if we could bundle him up and trade him for Adrian Gonzalez I’d do that in a heartbeat.
Joe – I loved this article although I do not agree with your opinions. Part of the reason is that I’m tired of band-aiding the Mets problems. I’d much rather fix the problems with a better GM, better long fun decision making. I’m willing to have patience to fix the problems as you’ll shortly see when I submit my next article.
In the meantime, give Murphy his shot next year. Unless we increase payroll to $175 million and get lucky, we’re not winning the division next year. Don’t give up your young guys yet.
Danny, IMO Murphy is not the guy for 1st base. Maybe as you and many other suggest he can make a significant contributions in the future, but my issue with that is the “bigs” is really not the place to develop, especially as a starter. 1st is the most vital part of the infield, and Murphy has shown his defense is clearly not ready to fill such an important role. I think if he stays on the roster for 2010 he should come off the bench behind a real 1st baseman, that would be ideal for him to get the proper guidance for growth into that role. The problem is Jeff and Omar have already said that they will field a championship caliber team in 2010, and in order to do that they have to make some real additions to the roster. I believe that spells trade for Murphy.
I think the real question here is how to managethe 1st base position. In my opinion, Dan Murphy is not the solution. I think there are various approaches to the 1B problem. Here are the options that I see:
1. Roll Dan Murphy into a trade for an established player such as Adrian Gonzalez or Fielder. Obviously that would be a package deal and not a matter of a stright up trade of Murphy for anything.
2. Roll Dan Murphy into a trade to fill one of the holes on the team such as SP, LF, or catcher. Again not a 1 for 1 trade, but a package.
3. Once Murphy is traded, we need to man 1B. If we were fortunate to get a 1B in a trade, then we are set. If not, then we can deploy Nick Evans there until Ike Davis is ready. Admittedly, Evans is another experiment, but a short term one as we will be waiting for Ike to be ready. If Ike doesn’t work out, we have Chris Carter for the same purpose.
So the options are: trade for a 1B or build from within with either Ike Davis or Chris Carter in the near future. If we build from within, use Nick Evans as the stopgap. All alternatives do not include Dan Murphy in the plan.
What makes everyone think that Murphy is as good as he will get. He’s only 24 and he got better this year. And he got better despite failing miserably in left field and playing a position he had never played before. If that’s not difficult enough, he had to do it in front of impatient and angry Mets fans and a media that kills the Mets regularly.
Murphy can improve significantly at 1st base with hard work and practice. Does anyone question his determination. And I have no doubt that his offensive numbers will improve greatly. A .330 OBP in 2009 does not mean he will be stuck on this number in ‘10. Get a left fielder and a pitcher and let Murphy play
Why would another major league baseball team want Murphy or accept Murphy in a multi player trade?
1. He is cheap
2. A team that is not going to spend $ can fool its fan base by saying they have obtained Murphy based on his “potential.”
Kansas City? Toronto? Washington? Is there a talented young player on any of these 3 teams about to be ready for a $$$ contract?
3. Murphy is part of a multi-playe deal of young Mets exchanged for Halladay.
Ike Davis, Jon Neise, Bobby Parnel and Daniel Murphy for Halladay.
4. SHrugs……. Haha.. I’m grasping at straws here…….
Lifelong, Your #3 is the key. I would do that but hold back on Davis and put someone else in his place. I would even build it around Pelfrey if required to get Halladay. But Murphy is ideal as fodder for a Halladay deal.
Danny name a few major league teams who won a championship with a 1st baseman who hit .275 12 home runs 65 rbi’s w/ a horrendous ops.
Exactly, we’re trying to make a run for a championship with essentially a mediocre 2B at 1B.
Agreed. No way we can contend for a championship with Murphy is a starter on 1B. Maybe your right Danny and he could possibly develop, but this is not the “develop” level of baseball.
It’s not ideal, but if he improves slightly with the bat– entirely possible, with a slight uptick in plate discipline– and you’ve got superlative offensive value elsewhere (say, 3B, CF, SS and LF), it’s workable.
I think you’re missing the point. The Mets are not going anywhere next year. Do you think they are going to get Halladay, Holliday, Lackey, and everyone else on the free agent market?
Get a left fielder and a pitcher. See what Murphy can do next year. Then see where you are and improve more for ‘11. If Murphy gets better, then trade him as he will have value. Can’t Mets fans have any patience?
The Mets “are not going anywhere next year” if we sign a pitcher and a LF but keep Murphy in such a vital position as a starter. Just my opinion.
the only problem u have with this is that this team cant afford to put out an ok team next year with no real hopes of playoff contention. the owners are upset because the LOST MONEY. they did not make the kind of money they wanted. this is a business and now u see a team that needs to make money. Murphy still might be in the plans, due to the fact hes playing fall and winter league, but expect the owners to have a say in some key trades or free agent acquisitions. hopefully they do make some good trades that could bring Doc Halladay to us from toronto.
Realistically, u can look for a team needing a salary dump to so we could get rid of oli… you could always keep him and trade pelf away for an upgrade but anyways….
onwership wants and needs to win so that they could fill up this lovely new stadium up. buy $10 beers and spend all this money on them.
No championship in ‘10. It’s not going to happen. There are too many question marks. Castillo, Reyes, Wright, Left Field, 1st base, Beltran, Francoeur, Pelfrey, Perez, Maine.
Danny, You’re giving up before the offseason has even started. Ownership promised a championship and has promised to spend to get it. Let’s them take them up on the offer and see how far we can get. The team needs to get better and one of the places it can get better is 1st base.
Danny we have a 2 yr window to win or else we face a long period of rebuilding without winning or even making a playoff appearance.
1.Hallday is not a free agent this winter.
2.Delgado has maybe 2 more productive years left
(we need to resign him! 30 hr and 110 rbis is hard to come by!)
3. Who knows how long Beltran has left playing essentially on knees w/ no cartilage.
I do agree that we need a power right handed LF.
I am assuming two things.
Reyes comes back healthy in 2010 and the Mets resign Delgado.
I am assuming this will happen because if it doesn’t we’re not winning.
LOL. Why not post Jeff Francoeur’s numbers in comparison to all of the RF’ers in the NL with at least 450 ab’s? His OPS is 2nd to last, a putrid .732.
The reasons there are a double standard:
1) Murphy has only been in the league for ~700 PA’s while Francoeur has ~3,000.
2) Murphy had demonstrated some plate discipline in his time — Francoeur has demonstrated over years that he has none. In fact, he has gotten worse. And it’s the most important attribute to being a good hitter.
3) Murphy is a + defender at 1st; Francoeur is a (-) defender in RF.
4) Murphy is going to make a fraction of what Francoeur makes next year.
Francoeur has regressed offensively and defensively since coming into the league. He has been below replacement the past two seasons. What is the appeal? Is it that he had a SI Cover 6 years ago?
Trade him to a dopey team like the Royals/Pirates that thinks he doesn’t suck — there are plenty of better options out there for us to improve.
Francoeur is going to hit #6 or #7 for us in 2010. Freancouer is a far better defensive player than Murphy. Francouer will hit .260 15-20 home runs 75-85 rbi’s. I’ll take that eve though his ops is horrible.
Should the Mets start two players hitting back to back with horrible on base percentages? Francouer #6 and Murphy #7 uh… NO! One of them will not play. Francour is going to play. And yes I realize I have spelled Froancour’s name differently each time I misspelled it.
Other than the fact that Murphy is a good defensive first baseman and Francoeur is a below average to bad outfielder does not make Francoeur a better defender
So now the new thing is that Jeff Francoeur is a bad outfielder??
I’ve never seen a time where so-called Mets fans team up to hate one of their own players on such a massive scale. Wow. These new stats are so cool.
Where have you been the last few years with people calling to trade Reyes and Wright for anyone when, unlike Francoeur, they are good at baseball, really, really, really really good at baseball.
Anyone who wants to trade Wright or Reyes is just plain wrong. I would NEVER advocate anything like that. I just dont understand why all of this out and out hate is being spewed on Francoeur who flourished under Howard Johnson’s tutelage and he will continue working with Johnson at a hitting clinic at his home. What has he done to deserve all of the animosity beside be a good soldier and a solid presence in the clubhouse? Who are you to say he is washed up and finished at age 25? Why cant he get a fair shake by this insane segment of Mets fans who pick apart every player like a frog in a biology lab?
He flourished to mediocrity. He’s not good. He had a two month hot streak and people fell in love with him. And most importantly, in that two month hot streak, he was still a below average ball player with and OBP of .338. He made outs 66.2% of the time and that his a hot streak for him. That is terrible.
Q:Which of the following is a worse defensive 1st baseman than Daniel Murphy?
A.NONE.
Albert Pujols Cardinals
Ryan Howard Phillies
Prince Fielder Brewers
Derrek Lee Cubs
Adrian Gonzalez Padres
James Loney Dodgers
Joey Votto Reds
Lance Berkman Astros
Conner Jackson D Backs
Casey Kotchman Braves
Lyle Overbay Brewers
Todd Helton Rockies
Pablo Sandoval Giants
Nick Johnson Nationals
Tony Clark D Backs
According to the new world of saber baseball, all of them, LMAO!
Or to ask it another way which of the following 1st baseman above are better defensively than Daniel Murphy.
Answer: ALL OF THEM!
Nobody is saying Murphy is the greates fielder in baseball, we’re saying THIS YEAR he was the third best in the MLB of 1B with 800+ innings at first. Next year he may very well suck, he may get better, hopefully he’s not at first for us enough to find out but you never know. The only thing we’re saying is, is that the perception of him as a shitty fielder wrong and he is in fact one of the better players there this year. Also, one year of defensive stats equal only one third of offensive stats so 800 innings is not a large enough sample size to make a definitive statement on his defense going forward.
But he is a shitty fielder.
It’s the 9th inng of a tie game and you need one first baseman on the list I out up. There is a man on first base. Your such a good manager that you know your pitcher will throw 3 balls in the dirt trying to pick off the man at first. Your 3rd baseman tends to short arm balls to 1st base in the dirt.
There is a lefty pull hitter up.
Your telling me that of all the 1st baseman I have listed you wold put Daniel Murphy in the Top 3??! Come on now. Be honest.
It’s a tie game 9th inng man on 3rd base. There is one out. I can honestly say that I want Jeff Francoeur playing right field.
Can you honestly say that you want Mirphy playing 1st base in the above example? No. Of course not
Argument over.
You’re an idiot, sorry, I was trying to refrain from name calling but I can’t anymore. Where did I say Murphy is clearly a better fielder than Pujols or Gonzalez, I even said there isn’t enough evidence to say Murphy is going to continue being a good fielder. And regarding Winn and Francouer, Winn covers much more ground than Francoeur does. All of Francoeur defensive value comes from his arm which is not what it once was and has become just above average. Besides that he has zero range, none. Winn has excellent range for a right fielder, he was a good center fielder so obviously he is faster than Francoeur. Your reasoning is 100% subjective, everything you know about players is either what you see –and you can’t see every play so you have limited knowledge and what you see you don’t understand because you are not a scout and are not trained to know what to see– or what you hear from other people or whatever numbnuts is on ESPN.
He actually looked very good in the second half and he might have made the best defensive web gem of the year with that behind the back flip. My problem is we need to upgrade the offense and unless we trade a core player, 1B and LF are the most logical places to add a power bat. Angel Pagan is more productive than Murphy given 500 AB.
I agree. Again, who said Murphy should be our first baseman next year? I don’t want him there that’s for sure. But he IS A GOOD FIELDER. That’s about all he is. He’s a bad hitter, almost everyone here and every single saber-inclined fan will agree to that. In my opinion, the worst case scenario has him platooning first base next year because he’s not good enough to go at it alone.
Also, regarding Pagan, not only is he better per 500 PA than Murphy, he’s also better than Francoeur. I want Beltran flanked by Holliday and Pagan next year. Pagan is at worst Francoeur’s equal at the plate and has much better range.
Except for Werth which of the following is a better defensive right fielder than Francouer?
Jason Werth
Corey Hart
Ryan Ludwick
Hunter Pence
Brad Hawpe
Andre Ethier
I can’t name them all someone hlep me ut………..
Wow, Brad Hawpe is the single worst right fielder in baseball and probably the worst fielder at any position besides Adam Dunn, Francoeur is better than him. Eithier also sucks as does Hart, but Church (yes, Church) Ichiro, Markakis, JD Drew and Randy Winn are all better than Francoeur in right
Randy Winn?? Are you kidding me? you would rahter have Randy Winnplay right field than Francouer?
yeah…. Its the 9th inng of a tie game man on 3rd base one out.
Oh Yeah! I would rather have Randy Winn playing right field instead of Jeff Francouer???!! NOOOOOoooooooo!!! PLEase stop.
Joe, I find it very interesting this thread has so much feedback. Fans sure are divided when it comes to Murph and Frenchy. Did you anticipate such a response? My stance is clear as I have posted, I had no idea what a “hot button” issue Murphy is. I guess I am too old fashioned to be sold on Saber baseball just yet, but I have been a Mets fan for 30 years. Being such a die hard fan, I would trade Murphy, or any other complimentary player, hell I’d trade my mother if I thought it would win a WS. I thought that was the goal here? just my $.02
I knew Francoeur was a lightning rod, but had no idea Murphy was too. Wilpon said he wanted a championship in 2010 and I felt our odds would be better with an upgrade at first base. I didnt expect this. If Murphy was a Pirate and I suggested trading for him everyone would agree that would be insane. But many fans are willing to buy into the hype when it comes to home grown minor leaguers.
Murphy is no lightning rod, for me atleast – selective use of stats to fit your personal beliefs about players is the lightning rod. You like Francoeur and don’t like Murphy. You use a stat (in this post) to show that Murphy sucks at hitting compared to other 1st basemen. Yet you would never do this same analysis for Francoeur because you like him.
This statement is also puzzling:
“I found it odd that some saber friendly Mets fans are so quick to defend Murphy on his inability to draw walks ”
Which “saber friendly” Mets fans have been quick to defend Murphy? I know I haven’t, for one, and have actually made numerous writeups this year saying it’s foolish to keep Murphy at 1B this year. If you could provide a link to some saber friendly Met fan praising Murphy I would greatly appreciate it.
It’s my opinion that Francoeur will be better than what he was with the braves with a new hitting coach and a willingness to work closely with HoJo where he will be in November participating at his hitting clinic.
What is so wrong with being a Francoeur fan? I’m a Mets fan and he’s become one of my favorite Mets. There really is no mysterious secret to why I like certain players, I just do.
Regarding Murphy, I don’t hate him, I just like LaRoche, Feilder and Gonzalez better than him as an everyday first baseman. I view Murphy as a Dave Magadan type and would like to see him stay on the team as utility guy and pinch hitter.
Believe it or not, we do have saber friendly writers on this site, and this post was in response to another post on this site that ran 3 days earlier. http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/10/murphy-francesa-and-the-future.html
peace…
Interesting, I read that post and didn’t realize it was using sabermetrics to make a case for Murphy. Thanks for providing.
Also, I never said there’s something “wrong” with liking a player for whatever reason (in this case Francoeur), just that it seems hypocritical to write this piece slamming Murphy because he was the worst hitting 1B in the league while never once mentioning over the last couple months that Francoeur was the 2nd worst hitting RF in the league. That’s all.
Joe don’t yo know anything?! Daniel Murphy is going to be the best 2nd baseman of all time! And David Wright is going to hit 30+ home runs.
Oh by the way did you know that Randy Winn is a better right fielder than Jeff Francouer? Oh and lets not forget about our own Johnny Bench to be; Josh Thoele. You see hoele is a young catcher with the otneital to be a pretty good gap hitter. He just needs to get better defensively. HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.. a catcher who needs to get beter defensively!? Isn’t that like saying. “Yah, this young pitcher is gonna be good. he just needs to get better at pitching.” PLEASE STOP the insanity I need to go to bed. STOP> I feel strangely compelled to counter all these wacky assertions tonight. It’s the wine.
Oh! And and lest we forget the Met fan refrain; “Luis Castillo sucks! he never gets on base and he strikes out too much!”
“Daniel Murphy is better than Carlos Delgado Man!:
Hahahahaaa. its addictive I can’t stop
Boy has this thing gone loony. How did we get the idea that Murphy is a good fielder? He has proven that he can’t play the OF. He can’t be trusted to play 3 of the 4 IF positions. He is marginal at 1B at best, no matter what the sabers say. Has anyone listened to Keith analyze Murphy’s play. He frequently get his feet tangled, stretches in the wrong direction, and gets himself out of position. He tries to make plays the 2B should be making. He very often is unable to even cover the bag. If he hasn’t made many errors of commission, how many errors of ommission has he made? Do errors of ommission and faulty mechanics at the bag show in the metrics at all? The reality is that the Mets are atempting to hide him on the field by assigning him to 1B. He is a bench player with no versatility. That means he is expendable, because his hitting value is low and his fielding versatility is non-existent. What is he? Answer: trade fodder! Anyone want to start the Dan Murphy as catcher experiment? If so, let’s do it at PSL.
It’s the 2010 World Series game 7, Mets are playing the Yankees at Citi Field. Top of the 9th runner on 3rd base and Posada is hitting.
If only the Mets has Randy Winn to play RF instead the Mets are stuck with Jeff Francouer in RF. OH NO! Oh My. Winn’s arm is soooooooooooooo much better than Francouers. and Winn’s covers soooooo much more ground than Francouer…Haaaaaaaaaahhhhaaaaa hahaaaaaaa.
Francouer
2009
152 games
Chances:308
Putouts:294
Assists:11
errors: 1
.993%
winn
2009
146 games
Chances:287
Put outs:282
Assists:5
errors:0
So Francour played in 6 more games than Winn in 2009 but had 21 more chances, 26 more putouts and 6 more assists.
But how can this be???! Winn id suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch a better fielder than Francour. Hahahahahaha…..hahahaha
Well first off, you can see Winn created more of his chances to outs. More importantly, a player cannot control the number of balls hit to him, how hard they are hit and so on. UZR takes every play as an individual event and rates the player based on all of the plays. If all people thought like you, we’d have never left the stone age.
Evan_S says:
October 12, 2009 at 11:02 pm
“And regarding Winn and Francouer, Winn covers much more ground than Francoeur does. All of Francoeur defensive value comes from his arm which is not what it once was and has become just above average. Besides that he has zero range, none. Winn has excellent range for a right fielder, he was a good center fielder so obviously he is faster than
Francoeur. Your reasoning is 100% subjective,….”
Hahahahaaaa. hahahahhaaaa….
You are an idiot. You know, one of these people that other people laugh at because of your stupidity.
metsgod97 says:
October 13, 2009 at 7:06 am
“You are an idiot. You know, one of these people that other people laugh at because of your stupidity”
Metsgod97 wrote the following on October 11 2009:
“Jeff Francoeur is a gritty player. Despite the fact that he is not very good at walking (it’s because he’s manly!) he still is a leader and re energized David Wright. This team has no heart, grission, or leadership and needs more of these players players like Francoer. My solution?
Trade for Mike Jacobs. He’s gritty and had 92 RBI’s
trade for Shane Victorino; He is a winner. He can play center next year while Beltran moves to left. Trade Jose Reyes. The dude was milking it, was a wimp and celebrates to much. Replace Reyes with Chone Figgins. He’s like David Eckstein, except better. He’s obviously a winner. Sign Eckstein for backup infield, and for his leadership and winning abilities.”
HAHHAhaaaaaaaa HAaaaaaaaaaaaaa Yeah I’m the idiot. HAhahahahahaha
Seeing that you couldn’t interpret obvious sarcasm, I’m going to agree with you, you are the idiot.
You obviously don’t understand sarcasm.
IDIOT
Let me get this straight the sarcasm in the above you wrote is in reagrds to Jeff Francoeur being a gritty player who has helped David Wright’s game???
But then you state you want the Mets to make 3 trades this off season. This is sarcasm also? You advocate for the trades below.
1st trade: trade for Mike Jacobs because you state, “he is gritty and 92 rbi’s”
2nd Trade: “trade for Shane Victorino; He is a winner. He can play center next year while Beltran moves to left”
3rd Trade: “Trade Jose Reyes. The dude was milking it, was a wimp and celebrates to much.
You then go on to say that the Mets should obtain Chone Figginsto replace Reyes becasue, “…He’s like David Eckstein, except better. He’s obviously a winner.”
What you gave up trying to obtain Randy Winn? NAd what no Luis Castillo bashing?
First of all, I like Luis Castillo offensively. Oh, and if you didn’t realize, Mike Jacobs sucks at baseball, and Shane Victorino and Chone Figgins are people that commentators like Joe Morgan like. If you don’t get this sarcasm you truly are an idiot.
Life is too short for bad beer.