Mets Proving Pitching Alone Can’t Get It Done

jacob degrom

After another solid outing by Mets pitcher Jacob deGrom (0-3), who went 5 2/3 innings giving up three runs on nine hits while walking one and striking out four, and was still denied his first big-league win, Ken Davidoff of the Post claims that the mets are a prime example of why starting pitching is not enough to make a successful team.

It’s all par for the Mets’ course — not only for this season, but also for the two years preceding 2014.

With 41 quality starts (a minimum of six innings pitched and maximum of three runs allowed) in 65 games, the Mets rank fourth in the National League with a 63.7 percent quality-start rate. The Reds jumped ahead of them Wednesday with their 41st start in 64 games, putting them at 64.1 percent. Nevertheless, the Mets’ record now stands at a woeful 29-36.

Last year, the Mets tied Cincinnati for the second-highest quality-start ratio, 58 percent, in the NL. That got them a 74-88 mark, tying the Brewers for the 10th-best (and fifth-worst) record in the NL. And in 2012, the Mets led the NL with a 62-percent quality-start rate, which left them at … 74-88 (sound familiar?), 12th-best and fifth-worst.

The Mets have seen an increased amount of close losses, defeats in which the starting pitching performed dutifully only to be let down by the squad’s lacking offense and subpar relief pitching.

Davidoff adds that it has become clear for the Mets that starting pitching can keep you in the game, but by itself it simply isn’t enough to take the victory.

Davdioff does have a point, with last night’s loss the Mets now have a major-league leading 23 losses by two runs or less. Their pitching staff is keeping them in these games, giving them every opportunity to drive in a few runs and steal the victory, but it is becoming increasingly clear that they just don’t have the ability to get that done. The Mets are hitting .226 with RISP, the sixth worst in the league.

mmo presented

  • Ry110891

    Only if the mets played in las vegas d’rnaud and the mets offense would be feared

  • Hodges14

    Only if they were facing AAA pitching in Vegas.

  • Peter S

    So you’re saying the Mets can’t win 0-0?

  • sperry

    It’s not that our offense is bad that bothers me. It’s that the offense has been this bad for years WITH THE SAME PLAYERS that is really infuriating.

  • Ry110891

    Especially when you have oppurtunities to win in free agency jose abreu, nelson cruz and thats just last offseason. Man our lineup would have been good. I also wish we had cespedes

  • Ry110891

    No they cant thats a tie. They are losing close games this year 1 and 2 run games. Eventually the mets will give up a run after 14 innings and our meager offense can muscle a hit

  • Waz0787

    No you think. Someone needs to give DW those magic pills.

  • willymayshayes

    Alderson could have Drysdale, Koufax, Ryan and Seaver and still be unable to build a winning team.

  • Ry110891

    Those PEDs

  • MAS0031

    I’m doing my absolute best to distance myself from this miserable team. The Wilpons don’t give a rats a$$ about the fan base, so why should I continue to watch. Boycott!

  • ParisWilponCOO

    RP has been atrocious for years- if it had been even average, the team would have at least been over .500. If the $ spent on Bay, Granderson, CY, etc. in a futile chase for “POWER” had been spent on speed, defense and good hitters, we’d have contenders. Add a competent manager and a fortuitous ravenous bear at the Wilpon family picnic and VOILA- World Series!

  • ParisWilponCOO

    On a brighter note, they can’t lose 0-0 either

  • mad met

    Maybe they should have figured that out when they could not get harvey wins

  • dave27a

    And the same stubborn belief that the same ‘philosophy’ applied to those same players for whom it’s had only negative impact will suddenly yield different results.

    The problem, by definition, appears to be insanity.

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    how did they think that they didn’t need hitting?? we could of signed abreau, or morse or traded for upton last year. will sandy be held accountable????

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    umm or santana

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    just got to get them going

  • dave27a

    Solid pitching staff. No offense. Incompetent ownership group with clueless offspring running the show refusing to embrace opportunities to improve….is this now or the mid-70s?

  • dave27a

    Seriously – I’ve never seen a team fold up the tents faster when losing a 12-win pitcher.

    Note this is not intended as a slight against Harvey.

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    its the culture of the team, the manager is the leader in the dougout and sets the tone. The damn braves lost 2 of their 5 SP and they are still working and fighting to win games. Its about attitude and TC brings a loosing attitude.

  • Anthony

    I heard on the fan that granderson hurt his calf. Not sure how bad. Also eddie coleman said terry knows the end is near but will likely survive the season

  • metsfan79

    Why so upset Sandy says we are close in every game isn’t that good enough? We are shooting for mediocrity and damn it we are sure close.

  • Andrew Herbst

    We can’t survive winning games 2-1 or 1-0. We need to score some runs.

  • Name

    There is no evidence that David Wright took PEDs.

  • Anthony

    Any word on joe d

  • metsfan79

    Fire sandy should be the theme here. Cant cut off the head ( frEd and jeff) but my lord he has to be the worst baseball gm in history. His double talk back traking b.s is ridiculous. He had money but doesn’t possess the skills set to acquire talent.
    Sandy Alderson don’t know baseball.

  • bspo1

    I’m sorry but can Sandy, Terry and the rest of the front office just shut up every once in a while. They just continually shoot themselves in the foot. Why is Terry ripping TDA for having several big games in AAA? Isn’t this about him regaining his confidence? Now he goes and rips TDA saying anyone can hit in Colorado Springs? Just shut up dude. Seriously.

  • NewYorkMammoths

    Every second of Terry not being fired is causing me pain.

  • Hotstreak

    I agree.

  • metsfan79

    What happen? where did you hear that?

  • bspo1

    d'Arnaud raking in AAA, but TC qualifies: "There’s 4 guys in this room that can get 3 hits tonight in Colorado Springs. Jay’s one of them."— Mike Vorkunov (@Mike_Vorkunov) June 12, 2014

  • Hotstreak

    No just tough love. Bat him 2nd or sixth for starters.

  • metsfan79

    What a complete moron. He might be the dumbest person ever with sandy running a close second

  • Peter S

    Sad part is when it’s 1-1, you are waiting for the other team to score. And you know full well the mets won’t.

  • Matlack

    Classic Collins. THIS is why I don’t want him managing my club, and less so because of his in-game moves. Joe Girardi knows how to handle situations like this so much better, and it blows over harmlessly.

  • Lanzarishi

    I feel so bad for this guy. On any other team, the way Jake has pitched, he should be 6-0, 5-1 the least! Only the Muts can produce these kinds of loses. Absolutely no help whatsoever from any of the offense. I predict after he has TJ surgery (probably) in the next 2 years he will not be heard of again and another anonymous name goes into the Mets record books. My advice: Leave now kid, get traded somehow and get outta town. You’ll be a star anywhere but NY.

  • Martin

    More reason to play Flores and plawecki every day

  • Richie is behind the curve in building up the MLB team and organization. Shocked. Should say no Mets fan ever.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Tim,

    And whenever I brought up the Met teams from 1970 through 1975 with Seaver, Koozman, Ryan etc that despite having the dominating pitching staff of the league and one of the top defenses behind them but could only muster no more than 83 wins in any one season, so many were telling me this was not the same thing.

    Was given all sorts of arguments, comparing the hitters then to now, the metrics, the injuries, the expectations based on minor league performances – all the reasons insisting why this was different than then. Only one thing was wrong with the arguments being made – not one of them was based on what any of us was seeing with our eyes which was the only concrete evidence we had to go by – but what some wanted to see. No talk about the holes not being able to be filled because we did not have the money to go outside the organization or that we did not have the prospects anywhere near ready yet and that no one can depend upon so many prospects along with the fact that we were being hampered by a hitting philosophy strictly enforced by one who knows nothing more than what he can comprehend through statistical analysis.

  • Chicago Days

    This is fast becoming another ugly season. Many of us, me included, thought we’d become ‘relevant’ at the least, i.e., vying for but falling short of a Playoff Spot.
    Great article. The pitching is fine, even the BP has turned it around.
    Our lineup stands there with wiffle bat. Pathetic.
    Collins compounds the problem, playing retread vets (CY, EY) and/or backups (Tejada) instead of our best MLB-ready prospects: 1st Lagares (until that became painfully obvious) , Flores, and i’ll bet, also Campbell.
    I guess the old saw about ‘never enough pitching’ applies a bit more in the playoffs than in the regular season–at least with this forlorn a lineup.

  • jason bay

    Mets are slightly below average in runs given up per game (4.03 NL average 4.02) and slightly below average in average runs scored per game at 3.98 (NL average 4.02)

    The one thing you can point to is our ace will be back while we don’t seem to have a big bat in the system to add next year unless Puello steps it up but for this year both pitching and hitting have been right around League average to date.

  • jason bay

    Best pitching in the NL is SF, Atlanta, Washington and St. Louis at about half a rune better per game than the Mets.

  • MetsPedes

    In all the years since I’ve been around baseball, I’ve always said this: baseball is who can put the most runs on the board, not who can stop the other team from scoring. Follow? You need to SCORE runs to win. No matter who’s pitching, the other team will always score runs(unless you’re this year Rays).

    Which it’ll bring me back to what I was screaming for last year. TRADE WHEELER, FLORES, d’ARNAUD, IKE FOR STANTON. I suggested that once he became angry and wanted out after they dumped the entire team. Then sign Abreu. I was crucified by other fans around here about Stanton. That it was a horrible trade on our end. That Stanton wasn’t worth it. That he was injury prone. Etc, etc.

    Now? Do those fans feel the same?
    Stanton having an MVP season thus far. Wheeler struggling with command, Flores being mishandle by Dumber, and d’Arnaud demoted. Which only leave us right where we were last year. CRYING FOR RUNS SCORE.

  • sperry

    I’m pretty sure most people would have made that trade, even then. Problem? The Marlins wouldn’t. It would have looked more like Wheeler, Noah, Murphy, TDA, and Flores. Maybe sub out 2 of the last three for another pitcher, and maybe take out Murphy for a Lagares-type talent. Teams see that pitching talent and won’t accept second-best. Regardless, all you’re doing is filling one hole by opening up a ton of others.

  • SL

    Seconding Seidon. The issue with Stanton is pretty simple. Marlins are not going to trade him. That, and we have nothing they need.

  • Captain America

    Matlack was there for 71-75 of that stretch, Ryan 70-71.

    So 71 had:
    Seaver
    Koosman
    Ryan
    Gentry
    Sadecki

    With Matlack in the wings

  • Joey D.

    Hi Captain,

    And we were 83-79 that year, as well. And that was when the five starters you mention were already established and no longer learning their trade – except perhaps with Ryan.

    When do you think we’ll next see 83 victories?

  • Juanito_Alimania

    which doesnt speak to the fact that the mets have more quality starts than SF, Wash and St. L

    the mets have the 4th most QS in baseball

  • Captain America

    Healthy pitching:
    Harvey
    Wheeler
    Syndergaard
    Gee
    Niese
    deGrom

    Has to be an 83 win team and use Colon, Montero and whatever else to secure a real SS and wake up and spend on a productive 1B on 2 year deal.

  • Juanito_Alimania

    mets are 2nd in tough losses in MLB
    mets are 1st in losses blown by bullpen this year.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2014-pitches-batting.shtml

    mets lead mlb in strikeouts looking

    mets are dead last in swinging at 3-1 counts, considered to be the count where the batter is most in the drivers seat.

    now go back and read moneyball…

  • Juanito_Alimania

    there is def a split in the front office between jeff + sandy…and it has filtered down to TC on the field.

  • Joey D.

    HI Captain,

    Could very well be.

    Harvey, Gee, Niese are proven commodities. deGrom – love what I see so far and can be fourth starter Wheeler is so far an end of the rotation starter which is good enough. That is five right there.

    Noah, we will have to wait and see once he gets up to the majors but he looks promising too.

    Now – for the rest of the team – we need more than sacrifice flies – with runners on base and in scoring position, what I would love to see as Josh Lewin put it last night, a “lousy” single.

  • MetsPedes

    That’s how everyone’s looking at it right now. BUT, that wasn’t the case before last season began. After they traded everyone, Stanton wanted out also. Marlins were reluctant to trade him, and were trying to convince him about changing his mind, but they were also going to listen to offers. I mean, you said you were a scout, so why wouldn’t you just at least “listen” what’s being offered?
    You said we had NOTHING, they needed from us. Well, before last season began, let’s take a look: they needed a 3B, that’s where Flores would’ve come in. They ended this past offseason signing Casey McGee. They needed a 1B since it was obvious that Morrison wasn’t going to be with them. That’s where Ike would’ve come in. He had value at the time. They ended up signing Garrett Jones to play 1B this past offseason. They needed a C, that’s where d’Arnaud would’ve come in. After we got him for Dickey, I’d be honest, I knew NOT MUCH ABOUT HIM, just the fact he was involved in the trade for Roy. So I dig deep, did research, and quite frankly wasn’t impressed, to learn that he was almost 25, and had yet played in the majors, while missing A LOT of time with injuries. It was a red flag for me, nevertheless head supposed to be a top catching prospect, and the fact we had gotten Noah in that trade, it made it easy for me to be “ok” with it. They ended up signing Saltalamacchia to be their C. Last but not least, the JEWEL Zack Wheeler. Who doesn’t “need” an ACE? The Marlins thought of having him and Fernandez as a 1-2 top of the rotation would’ve been insane. Right? So, I said trade wheeler, WE NEED A POWER BAT, and with all this “pitching” that we have, we have no bats to put up runs for them.
    “You don’t cover a hole, by creating another”. Yes, but where’s the hole? We have a 3B, so Flores STILL HAS NO POSITION with us, we could’ve signed Abreu for 1st, we could’ve dealt with Buck or something, at least until Pawlecki is ready, and quite frankly, the loss of wheeler Wouldn’t have felt so bad, after the MVP season I knew Stanton could have had. And he is having.