Rubin: Criticism Should Be Directed At Alderson Not Collins

sandy alderson

In a response to all the criticism of Terry Collins in the past two weeks – and in particular this weekend – Adam Rubin of ESPN New York responded by saying the blame for the current state of the Mets belongs to Sandy Alderson and not the manager.

This regime has been peddling the future for four years now…

There ought to have been more competitiveness, at least by now, while fans await the future faces of the organization. And that requires better identification of talent by the front office.

Rubin contends that there should have been more competitiveness by now and the reason there hasn’t been a lack of identifying better talent by the front office.

He writes:

The painfully slow rebuilding, which eats at the fans, has to gnaw at the Wilpons, too, because their financial lifeblood is derived from revenue from attendance. I’ve covered this team for a dozen seasons as the beat writer, and I have never seen this level of combined anger, distrust, frustration and dismay directed collectively at the organization by its fans. By now, even if the Mets weren’t challenging the Washington Nationals and Atlanta Braves for the division, there ought to have been positive energy in the ballpark, like there was in 2005 with the “New Mets” — a palpable feeling something bigger was looming.

Rubin also took issue with Alderson’s “Moneyball” pedigree, which was supposed to identify low-cost players to keep the team competitive until the farm system started producing players.

With rare exceptions such as LaTroy Hawkins, there have been swings and misses and more swings and misses, particularly in the bullpen. To name a few: D.J. Carrasco, Frank Francisco, Ramon Ramirez (in a trade for Angel Pagan), Scott Atchison, Brandon Lyon and now Jose Valverde

The Mets seem to always need to win the trade, or there is inaction.

He concludes:

There may come a day in the next few seasons that the Mets realize that 90-win goal. And then people might praise Alderson for leaving the organization in such good shape. But if the price was, say, six losing seasons under his watch first — plus the two from Minaya that preceded it — was that really great front-office work? Or if you fail enough seasons, is it simply inevitable that at some point you’ll accrue enough young talent to be competitive again?

As I wrote in a post last week, expect more heat for Alderson from the media who by and large have given him a free pass during until now.

Sandy went into this offseason with three years of his own acquisitions under his belt, plenty of time to evaluate the players and prospects he inherited, and $50 million to spend this Winter.

This current team and their results are finally all on Sandy, and this was the year he promised transformation when he took the job in the fall of 2010.

Still, it’s hard for me to be too critical of him or the previous GM as long as this current ownership remains in place. That’s where the real issue is.

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  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Good. Keep the crosshairs on Sandy and the Wilpons. Collins isn’t a great manager, but the players on this team and the general malaise among the fans isn’t his fault. It’s all blood from a stone. Changing managers won’t matter. Changing coaches won’t matter. It all starts at the top. The Wilpons won’t or can’t spend on top talent and Sandy doesn’t seem capable of making due with what little the Wilpons do have.

  • BronxMets

    Everything should be on sandy and should have been all along. It’s his job to build an organization and a team. There isn’t one position player above a ball that can help the team. Completely insane

  • El PanchVilla

    Criticism should be directed at the Wilpons, SA and TC. The issues start at the top of course and until that changes it seems we are going down the same path we have been the last 4 years. We are not getting better but worse…

  • SRT

    Rubin is one angry beat writer.

  • BronxMets

    That’s just a dumb statement.

  • HawkZon

    ” how can you have full faith in their evaluation skills?”

    This is huge, they can’t evaluate talent.
    They saw no value in Jose Abreu, SA can’t seem to make a decent FA move,
    do any of you see the 7.5 million value in CY, I don’t.
    Two years and he still has no plan for SS or lead off hitter. We have no more position players than when he started this mess.

  • Sylow59

    Again the concept of Moneyball is misinterpreted.

  • Biggle Boy

    The manager is always the easiest scapegoat. Especially when ownership treats the franchise like a $1 Store and then the GM proclaims they can be a 90 win team.

  • WilponsStinkLessNow

    Great article. Rubin nails it. So now that we are seeing the ‘blame Sandy’ articles, how soon before we see the ‘Wilpons must go’ articles? I hope it’s very soon.

  • SRT

    To each his own opinion.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Rubin never has been complimentary to the mets. Even in the days of Omar he was critical of everything they did.

    Just his style I guess. Nobody can accuse him of being a homer.

  • AJF

    Sandy is not going anywhere The Wilpons are forever grateful to Sandy for saving them money

  • Taskmaster4450

    Even if those articles about the Wilpons appeared, what effect do you think it will have.

    Selig saved the franchise for the Wilpons.

  • jimmy705

    Do you disagree with anything he said here?

  • Harry F

    if the wilpons didnt make such a huge mess of the team, sandy would never have been forced onto them as the GM, so everything should be about the wilpons

  • WilponsStinkLessNow

    Exactly, and Selig is gone after this year. If there is enough heat on the owners by the end of this season, maybe Selig’s successor (Manfred) will be forced to pull the trigger. One can hope…

  • Taskmaster4450

    He is in the last year of his contract and his extension has not been picked up. If it was a slam dunk, I am sure Jeff would exercise it before now. He is waiting to see how things turn out which doesnt bode well for Alderson in my opinion since he is resting his chances on Collins.

    Of course, Rubin doesnt seem to think Collins is a problem and I wholeheartedly disagree.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    So…he must be a Mets fan then.

  • jimmy705

    Hey, Sylow. I remember you from Metsblog.

    As someone who’s been following its development since the early 1980s, I agree with you about Moneyball. (And I sure don’t remember there ever being a point system for swings and misses.)

    But I guess my question for you is, regardless of misinterpretation, do you think Mets management is doing a good job with the team? Do you think those of us who are incredibly frustrated (like me, a fan since 1965) are just being too impatient?

  • Taskmaster4450

    He will have no basis.

    The Wilpons are on solid enough footing that MLB will have no cause to have them sell. So unless Fred pulls a Sterling, the Wilpons are here to stay.

  • The blame lies now in the same place it has lain for years. At the feet of the Wilpons.
    I don’t care who you are, you are not a serious, perennial contender with an $85mm payroll in NY. You can squeeze more out of that in a place like FL which has a lower cost of living and no income tax. Not here. Sure, you can build a core of cheap, homegrown talent on a shoestring – and Sandy has done an admirable job there – but soon that cheap, homegrown talent is no longer cheap.

    It is time to start broadening the talent base away from young pitching via trade and FA

  • Taskmaster4450

    Ah but at they really Met fans or closet Yankee fans?

    That is the question.

  • Harry F

    even if we nitpick all of sandy’s mistakes, they were mistakes on small scale relievers, etc, even if he hit on all those relievers, the team would still suck

  • WilponsStinkLessNow

    Who invited Debbie Downer? Wah wah

  • Helloboy

    Sorry, this is a mixed bag. You cannot just say not to blame Collins. He burns relievers, has no idea how to manage the pitchers at all. His lineup decisions are also puzzling and he uses a lot of double speak. I still think the Mets should be better than they are and think that too many players are under performing to let that go. You can’t fire the players and you can’t say “if we had better players…” other managers get more out of their guys and that is why they seem to over perform every year. Collins should be fired. He is not helping. His presence is not adding more wins or getting guys to put out more. He has enough pitchers to use without having to put Farnsworth or Valverde in closer spots. He should have enough leverage to call for the players he wants.

    Collins needs to go. Firing a manager can wake a team up. A new manager can come in and say “that won’t be me” and kick their ass.

  • Harry F

    you think wilpon has any control over whether sandy stays or not? that’s funny

  • jimmy705

    Agree completely, TGWLC. Though I guess if they brought 1984-era Davey Johnson in, he’d get more from this team. A little. Then again, he’d never have come to a team that set so many rules of behavior for him….like you said, it all starts from the top.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Well, critical of every thing the Mets do? Sounds like a Mets fan to me.

  • I wouldn’t say they saw “no” value. They didn’t see the risk-reward as favorable given the team’s finances and the needs of the club. Let’s not be too hasty declaring Abreu a win just ye anyway. He’s had a great month and he clearly has talent. Let’s see if and how the league adjusts

  • calamityfrancis

    Montero, Syndergaard, DeGrom, Flores, Leathersich, Walters?

  • Harry F

    imagine have a dwight and darryl waiting in the wings….not the best comparison there

  • Taskmaster4450

    Call it what you wish but if you think the Wilpons are going anywhere, you are dreaming.

  • DrDooby

    Rubin in most parts has a valid point here. Though if you look around Baseball any rebuild that doesn´t involve spending a ton of money on players or trading top prospects for established stars generally takes at least 5 to 7 years. Even if we generously let this rebuild start after the 2009 season when the “Minaya” Mets collapsed amidst injuries and depth problems, we´re currently at the start of the 5th season and thus the minimum range, at the start of the 4th season if we only take the “Alderson” years as the starting point.

    But even with a bottom 10 payroll and even with the improved farm system and a rather slow movement of prospects, somewhat similar to how teams like the Rays & Cardinals have been doing it, there needs to be progress in 2014. And progress in wins & losses on the field.

    And while the 85 millionish payroll seems very odd for a NY based MLB franchise when other teams from much smaller market are sporting twice as much or at least 50 % more, the Mets did have an extra 30 to 35 million $ which they were able to add to their payroll after essentially going with 55 million $ payrolls over the past two years, excluding what the sunk costs made.

    And both the SS situation, plus the lack of decisiveness & structure in the bullpen are on the front office. In theory, opening the season with veterans in the pen wasn´t wrong. But it hasn´t taken long to prove that this mix ain´t working. And time is running out. There is no way Jose Valverde should be on the roster right now. If you want his leadership, name him the bullpen coach. But Valverde has been mostly terrible and is using up a roster spot that could at least go to a piece like Black, Thornton or Edgin who are at an age where the major leagues should be where they are. Or – if these arms can´t be trusted – use Mejia, Montero or DeGrom in the pen to come up with a potential asset. These days, a bullpen throws over 30 % of the innings for a team. As solid as the SP has been, you can´t just punt on almost one thirds of the innings.

    And this front office has to be held accountable for that, albeit with a reasonable perspective, giving them a mulligan for the transition / rebuilding years of 2011-2013 but starting to raise expectations this year and going forward.

    If the 2014 Mets fall short of .500, then the 2015 Mets better win 90 games and reach the playoffs.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I understand people wanting to change Collins. That’s fine. But I don’t understand how anyone can really say a different manager would get more from this team. There’s no way of knowing that. You can assume the new manager would make different choices, but those choices might cost games or have a negative impact too. There’s no real way of knowing. I hope they do make a change so we can see the results stay the same and people will understand.

  • Mike B

    I’m not as negative as Rubin. This is a business. Would Mets fans have been happy if we had Florida players, and we let go Josh Beckett, Miguel Cabrera, Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes? Or the Braves, trading Adam Wainright for Drew? Or the Nats signing Soriano for a gazillion then losing him for nothing?

    I will agree on the mistakes made at the major league level. The Angel Pagan trade was dumb. Signing Grandy and CY look questionable. Then again, I see no value in signing big stars for huge contracts. In the post steroid era, it makes no sense. Used to be trading at guy at age 30 was the way to go. Steroids destroyed that, but those days are over, and trading guys at 30, or not signing them again, is much more sensible. Even Bill James says that age 29 is the peak year for players, so signings like Pujols, Pence, Kershaw, and others, just don’t add up. Coming in 3rd with an $88 million payroll makes more sense than coming in 2nd with a $200 million payroll. Let’s see how we do vs. the Yankees this week to see who’s on the right track.

  • I don’t understand the harping on the Rauches, Marcums and Frankie Franks. Those moves didn’t work out but these were 1 and 2 year contracts. He didn’t lock up Dan Uggla for 7 years

  • jimmy705

    This fifty-year Mets fan is totally disgusted by the way the team has been run; by the arrogance of the owners and top management; by the use of a minimal payroll; by the creation of a park that negated the strengths of the team’s best player; by the presence of an Amway in the stadium; by the AAA team ending up in Las Vegas; by the idea that we need to go to the ballpark for the Wilpons to open their wallets; and more.

    Please don’t accuse me of being a “closet Yankee fan.”

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Having been here three years, that comes down to the draft and his style.

  • fedupfan13

    Rubin nails it in this article. Obviously the Wilpons are more to blame then Sandy is. However, sandys smug know it all attitude when he has produced nothing, all while expecting the media and fans to bow at his alter is mind boggling.

  • Taskmaster4450

    At this point yes. Alderson did his job…he helped to clean up the finances.

    The Wilpons are out of the financial trouble they faced a few years back…things improved to the point where they will have a profit this year most likely.

    So yes it is Wilpons call now….3 years ago…not likely.

  • SRT

    Rubin writes this article with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. I can’t call him a genius at that, as he doing the same thing just about every other Mets fan is doing right now.

    Regarding this statement:
    ‘I’ve covered this team for a dozen seasons as the beat writer, and I have never seen this level of combined anger, distrust, frustration and dismay directed collectively at the organization by its fans.’

    Not to hard to figure out why, Adam. You’ve got every Tom, Dick and Harry Mets fan voicing their opinion at you on Twitter, text and just about every other social media outlet that wasn’t available even ‘a dozen seasons’ ago. He blocks those who call him out constantly so what he’s left with is those that agree with him and his opinions.

    If he thinks this is bad, by Mets fans standards, he should have been around when they traded Seaver in ’77 and the black years after that.

  • WilponsStinkLessNow

    Maybe, but I can’t see this going on forever, can you? Do you really think MLB will just sit there as the number one market team has losing seasons for 6-7-10 straight years, and with a payroll in the bottom third of the league!? At mean, at some point, something has to give. No?

  • Harry F

    it would be nice if a few of the moves worked, but in the long run, it wouldnt have made a big difference

  • HawkZon

    Yes, Collins needs to go but SA needs a puppet and not many men are going to come to our team to be a puppet.

  • Taskmaster4450

    You dont think Geren would be a Yes Man also?

    Of course he would.

  • Harry F

    The wilpons are not out of the financial mess they are in. go look up Howard Megdal’s capital NY pieces, the Wilpons are up to their eyeballs in debt, in connection with SNY, the stadium, and the team, and they still owe a large payment of probably 60-80 million for madoff, its a disaster

  • jimmy705

    I was around for that too, SRT. Saw Seaver pitch his last game as a Met.

    That was the lowest of the low points.

    The difference between that and this is…we now know that in 1981 Frank Cashen came in, and then Davey. RIGHT NOW we’re where we were in 1979 etc. Show me the light at the end of the tunnel, and I won’t be so frustrated.

  • Your personal distaste for the guy doesn’t impact the team on the field. Opposing GMs seem to like him well enough to trade a few very well regarded prospects for a 40 year old smoke and mirrors pitcher and a 2 month rental of an OF with iffy knees

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    How is the article hindsight? Is it hindsight to point out the failed signings of guys like Francisco and Lyon? Is it hindsight to point out the Pagan trade? That’s not hindsight. That’s waiting to evaluate and doing so once we know how it all turned out.

    It’s not hindsight to say Alderson needs to make an impact now after having been here for these years and selling the Wilpons on his “plan.” Absolutely nothing in this article is hindsight.

  • fedupfan13

    That’s what people are missing one of the money all strategies basically devalues managers. They are a direct puppet of the FO. So if you hate Collins…news flash you hate Sandy. Again it’s sandys hitting strategy not Terry’s. I think they both stink. But terry is hamstrung by Sandy and Sandy is hamstrung by Fred.

  • TexasGusCC

    I disagree in part with Rubin. He is right to say Alderson has not achieved success with his cheap signings, and honestly his “expensive signings” were more awful than his cheap ones, but Collins also is a problem.

    When I read that his players play hard for him, who does? The kids that have prove themselves? Does CY, Granderson or Colon? Colon doesn’t give a crap, you can see it. Murphy and Wright are just playing their game, sometimes up and sometimes down. Players like Tejada and Duda have regressed, and not a single player has improved.

    What is the “they play hard for Collins” garbage? I don’t that, I see a flat careless team.

  • HawkZon

    I agree about Geren, that’s why it’s pointless to try to change the manager while SA is here.

  • jimmy705

    I think Davey was a brilliant tactical manager, which is why I said he could do a little more with this team than Terry, who is NOT. But he couldn’t work miracles with this team, either, which is why I think the responsibility rests mostly above him.

  • The big mistake was not signing LaTroy and even that isn’t huge IMO

  • Taskmaster4450

    What difference does debt make?

    The WIlpons have two appreciating assets which each year reduces the debt to value ratio. Also, they are making the interest payments so the banks will keep reupping the loans (and taking in millions in fees in addition to the interst) without a dent being made in the notes. That is their utopia.

    Cashflow is all that matters and the Mets will hit positive numbers this year.

  • WilponsNeed2Go

    Rubin makes a decent case why everyone should blame Sandy, but no case about why should we let Terry off the hook. Has he even been watching the games?

    The majority of criticisms lob at Collins have been about his mismanagement of the talent Sandy has given him. Fans criticize Collins for making mistakes that even the novice fan considers egregious. These mistakes are costly and have accounted for around 5 losses this season, and its only May!

  • jimmy705

    YES

  • SRT

    ‘Failed signings’ only become failed signings after the fact.
    Hence, the hindsight is 20/20 opinion of mine.

  • The two of you spend way too much time worrying about how fans should act almost as if you wrote the book on fandom.

    The people you are likely directing your barbs at spend 4 hours a day on this site, participate in every game thread and even go to many of the games.

    There are different ways fans can react to their team’s failure. And while some are overly frustrated, not too many fans have the ability to completely numb themselves to it and shrug their shoulders like you can.

    They are showing their passion in ways that you can’t comprehend because you choose to be emotionless followers.

    But most fans are actually very emotional hence the word “fans” derived from “fanaticism.” Which is derived from Latin for irrational devotion and emotion for a pastime or hobby.

    In the true sense of the word fan, you are lesser fans than the ones you say are not fans.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    this is simple

    Jeff Wilpon and Adam Rubin are buddies. when adam rubin asked for a scouting job in mlb, he went to a college dropout ( aka jeff ) for “career advice”. Adam has no experience in baseball other than being a journalist, and rather than go to the gm ( omar minaya ) for a job, he went to the OWNER, which speaks to their relationship.

    If Jeff Wilpon does not like someone and wants to deflect blame, he gets his mouthpiece to do it. Jeff wilpon was the one who gave the story on the walter reed hospital to adam rubin,

    this is why u never see bad articles about the wilpons from adam rubin.

    now….this actually may be good news for us…

    if Jeff wilpon is really using adam rubin to bite at sandy alderson, and sandy alderson leaves NY to go back to Park Ave and 42 to work as the new comish or for the new comish…

    Jeff’s mouth may cost him later if the mets cant pay their bills…

    this pettiness could be the start of something good, because i do not think for a second that jeff and sandy ever got along.

    ( crossing fingers )

    ( Go Sandy )

  • jimmy705

    Yup, that’s where it starts…and pretty much ends.

  • Harry F

    exactly, if not re-signing a 41 year old guy, who was picked off the scrap heap the year before, is the “big mistake”, there are clearly bigger issues. Wouldnt a Choo, or Garza have been nice? Instead we settled for the second rate free agents, even when we spent $

  • HawkZon

    Damn, I’ve got a pulled hamstring!

  • jimmy705

    He said “position player.”

  • Helloboy

    Than why hire a manager that costs money? May as well get that college coach nobody heard of and pay him 100K a year and be done with it?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    How else are you supposed to evaluate trades? That makes no sense. You evaluate a trade after all the pieces have made their impact, negative or positive. The Pagan trade is old. Francisco and Lyon are gone. We can talk about what they did, call it a failure, and that’s that. It’s not “hindsight.” It’s called “evaluation.”

  • DrDooby

    Realistically, it takes several years to get amateur position players into the upper levels. Looking at the 2011 to 2013 drafts and the regular IFA market (not veteran Cubans signed to massive contracts the Mets couldn´t compete with) who are the prospects Alderson should have drafted and who´d help now ? Wilmer Flores & Travis d´Arnaud, the two rookies with some hitting upside both signed their first pro contracts as teenagers in 2007. While neither progressed very slow, even most of today´s young hitting studs generally were signed between 2008 and 2010 and thus well before Alderson arrived in NY.

    So, it´s tough blaming the lack of upper level hitting prospects on Alderson who is merely 3 drafts & signing periods into his tenure.

    But for the first time, these 2014 Mets are fully and 100 % on Alderson. Every dime spent on the – albeit very modest – 2014 payroll is related to a contract he was part of. Or a player he & his staff either added themselves or inherited and decided to keep from the previous regime. Rome wasn´t built in a day and you can´t expect quick success with that sort of payroll and a long rebuilding. But progress is definitely needed. NOW. And not by 2018.

    If the Mets aren´t playoff bound in either 2014 or 2015, I´m pretty sure that Sandy Alderson won´t be Mets GM in 2016 anymore.

  • depressed Mets fan

    The order of blame goes like this

    1. The Wilpon’s

    2. Sandy, though he has gained ground on the Wilpon’s, he’ll never surpass them. But Sandy has been completely inactive in improving the team and when he has spent has done a absolute horrible job in identifying talent. I remember last year I think it was an article on fangraphs, and they managed to identify the collective WAR for buy low players and the Braves were at the top and Sandy’s Mets were at the bottom.

    3. Terry Collins, John McGraw couldn’t get this sad sacks to win. But what little talent Terry has, he has done a horrible job with. I don’t have to go on about the bullpen we all know it. But things like constantly down playing Lagares or basically setting up TdA for failure.

    I won’t blame the players just of the simple fact the talent isn’t there. This isn’t like the 07-08 Mets where the talent was there and they choked. The talent on this team is very thin. Everyone knew this was a mid 70’s win team.

  • TAPE_LGM_JETS

    I am obviously not Sylow, but I like your question. I am a supporter of Alderson, but here is the thing. He informed us when he first took over that its going to be a process and it is going to be 3-4 years. However, even Sandy himself has admitted that it is taking a lot longer than expected. I have been patient watching this organizations every move and learned about every player in the minors. The minor league system has improved, as promised and expected. But I do not think we are being too impatient about the big league team anymore. I think 6 years of losing ought to piss us off, or else what is the point. But then again, it is hard to improve when you are financially restricted. In my opinion, this had to be the year for us to take a step forward. I think we still can. Hopefully Thor and Montero come up and pitch as expected, hopefully Wheeler keeps developing and D’Arnaud, Wilmer, and Lagares show enough for us to feel comfortable with them being part of the future. If some of these things work out, we can be one BIG BIG [cleanup hitting first baseman- coulda been abreu] from being a contender. The year is still young, we have to wait and see how these guys develop. It is unfortunate, but at least there is potential, and we are not just watching a bunch for 35 year old men with no upside.

  • Taskmaster4450

    The Cubs have been losing forever in the number 3 market in the country so I am not sure if that is a valid point.

    And the payroll will increase. The Mets have too many young players not to increase it when these guys start getting paid. Harvey and Wheeler will hit arbitration which will escalate their salaries considerably. With all the talent it looks like the Mets have, they cannot trade it all away.

  • Harry F

    when the debt is about 80% of the team’s value, i think its a problem. They will put that cash flow in their pocket anyway, and i will believe that until they show otherwise

  • fedupfan13

    I don’t dislike him. Seems like a nice guy…good sense of humor. I don’t like his condescending attitude but I think it’s part of the cover up for ownership, which is not totally his fault. I lose respect for him for covering for him but for 2.5 m I would do the same. I do think he’s way overrated. I think his ideas are outdated….sandys offensive approach. I think his plan is to keep costs down and build on the way in that order of importance

  • DrDooby

    They sure are and Alderson will be allowed to leave on his own – regardless of whether he ends up being successful or not. But if this isn´t a playoff team by the fall of 2015, I´m pretty sure he won´t be back either way for 2016…

  • SRT

    Dark days indeed, my friend.

    Still, it took Cashen how many years to get the Mets to post season? We’re lucky in that being so bad in draft years where Doc and Strawberry were available, Cashen scooped them right up. Even then, it took a couple of years to develop them, plus the trades for guys like Keith and Carter.
    Cashen also didn’t have the money constraints to rebuild under that the current FO did/does.

    I’m not making excuses, just stating facts.
    At some point though, the Mets have to produce and/or contend or ‘the plan’ will be deemed a failure.

  • Jimmy I just addressed that below.

    Don’t worry and you have a right to feel as frustrated as you like.

    We are a fan site and know real fans when we see them. You are one of many who read this site.

    Lets Go Mets!

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Haha. Not criticizing any fan or telling any fan how to act, but thanks for adding to the conversation.

    Thanks for telling me how to be a fan by telling me not to tell fans how to be fans.

  • Duffystaub

    They fired Davey and brought in nice guy Harrelson then Torborg. Disaster. They fired Torborg and brought in no-nonsense Dallas Green. Disaster. They fired in your face Bobby V and brought in everybody’s favorite uncle Art Howe. Disaster.

    When a tough guy is managing and losing people scream “He’s out of touch with today’s ballplayer”. When the nice guy loses they scream “These prima donnas need a good butt kicking”.

  • DrDooby

    Well, those are a waste of time as the Wilpons´ain´t going anywhere. Unfortunately, but true. So, once you accept that hard fact of life, you can look at the job those in charge are doing within these ownership related boundaries. And it´s absolutely fair that into Year 4 of the Alderson era, expectations are starting to rise.

  • Helloboy

    I disagree with this opinion only because i think “this sad sacks” is good enough to win 85 games…especially if they get the right pitcher move.

  • You sound like a closet Yankee fan to me. 🙂

    And I respect how you can separate yourself from your passion and not be frustrated. I wish I could do that.

  • elsid1986

    Great Article. Finally NY media is holding Aldersons feet to the fire

  • depressed Mets fan

    See somebody is already drinking on a Monday morning.

  • Big Daddy D

    Both. Not enough good moves for the right types of players and bad decision making during games. Not big on changing the guard but pretty sure it’s time to go.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    You do realize I was talking about Adam Rubin, right? I don’t think you do.

  • Helloboy

    Yeah, the water is out in our office right now, had to resort to the whiskey to replace the coffee.

  • fedupfan13

    The team on the field has been waaaay under 500 for his tenure

  • Taskmaster4450

    So you critique us for not being accepting of how fans show their passion towards the team which means you are not accepting how we choose to be.

    And I would like for you to give me the basis for your conclusion that I am an “emotionless” follower.

    Finally, since you pointed out that some of the posters spend 4 hours a day on this site, enter the game threads, and even go to games, well that includes me also.

  • But Rubin is a reporter, not a fan. Who cares about his fandom? He’s gives us Met fans more to talk about than any other beat writer I know. I’d say if he stopped writing half of the other Mets sites would close up shop. Wouldn’t you agree?

  • Dave_in_Spain

    Actually, I´ve thought Rubin was mostly objective, much more so than the other beat writers, most of whom are scandal-seeking hacks.

  • Helloboy

    100% agree. It is the last paragraph i agree with the most and this is why i want him fired.

  • I am accepting of all fans.

    I’m saying stop talking about other fans and how they choose to express their emotions about the team, and calling them closet Yankee fans.

  • Duffystaub

    You all do remember Rubin exposed this colossal scam when Sandy was hired right?

    http://youtu.be/80kOZf_-4yk

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    It was a joke. Take deep breaths. Have a bowl of cereal or something.

  • Taskmaster4450

    You think it is a problem but the banks obviously do not so I think it best to go with their call since they are the ones putting up hundreds of millions of dollars.

    And you missed the point of appreciating assets. When that happens the loan to value numbers improve.

  • Helloboy

    Fact: The Marlins are also rebuilding. Fact: They spent money wiser and met their main needs in FA. Result: Marlins are winning more than losing and have no need for a major trade. Mets still have 3 holes (1st, SS, and pen) and have no concept how to fix it.

  • elsid1986

    Collins makes mistakes to be sure. But is it his fault he has no short stop? Is it his fault he has no bullpen. Is it his fault he has 3 guys in the every day lineup hitting below .200?

  • El PanchVilla

    They definitely do not play hard for that clown.

  • Taskmaster4450

    It was a mistake to not sign LaTroy but at lease sensible when presented with the reason (too old).

    What is a mistake is not to sign LaTroy at 40 but then to turn around and sign a 40 year old Colon to a two year deal.

  • calamityfrancis

    oops, my mistake. still, flores still applies.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Geren might at least manage the BP better which would be a step up.

  • Helloboy

    I disagree. Case in point: Miami. They are winning and playing inspired baseball. They do not lose at home. They came from well behind where the Mets were and passed them in the a shorter amount of rebuilding time.

    If SA hit on even half of the FA’s he signed we would have been in the playoff conversation already.

  • Don’t need to take a deep breath. I’m simply responding. I love and respect all fans, that is what MMO is all about. So anyway, Lets Go Mets.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    How did he down play Lagares and set TDA up for failure?

  • Helloboy

    He is going somewhere, because he is not under a long term deal, is very old and is not going to want to deal with this situation longer than he has to.

  • Helloboy

    exactly

  • Harry F

    The banks just want their payments, which is fine, it’s a business, but they could care less if money is not spent elsewhere. Even if the loan to value #s improve, the mets are still so far out of whack compared to the rest of the league in the debt they have, that it’s clearly a problem

  • Helloboy

    I do not think so. I actually think Jeff and Sandy dislike each other a great deal. They clearly do not see eye to eye on things.

  • Taskmaster4450

    I dont know the facts of what you stated so I will go with them.

    It wouldnt surprise me that it is Jeff turning the heat up on Sandy. I sensed the fact that Aldersons option isnt picked up at this point, that he is on the way out. If what you say is true and Rubin is Jeff’s mouthpiece, then I see this is validation of this view.

  • El PanchVilla

    Dude, he’s still a horrible manager. That doesn’t change in this whole equation and needs to be replaced.

  • Rubin wrote a New York Times besteller about the Mets. And as a matter of fact, one review thought it was so positive it sounded like a press release from the Mets. Read below from Amazon.com.

    Hardcore New York Mets fans will be thrilled by this in-depth look at the team’s 2005 season by the Mets beat writer for the New York Daily News.

    Rubin captures all the highlights of what became a memorable winning season, but he focuses on what was the biggest Mets story in years: new general manager Omar Minaya’s signing of two major players, pitcher Pedro Martinez and outfielder Carlos Beltran, after the 2004 season. Rubin’s exploration of the impact that the three Latino men made on a team that soon became known as “Los Mets” is entertaining.

    The author is a skilled sportswriter who knows how to deliver a wealth of detail in an exciting way, using telling quotes, such as Minaya’s admission that before he joined the team “it looked somewhat dysfunctional.” Yet Rubin’s observations, however true, sometimes read like a Mets press release.

  • Helloboy

    This is normally how teams proceed. Problem is they hired Terry to be an ass kicker and he just has not been that, at all. We have really had a run of a decade now with all laid back managers. I wish they would have brought back Bobby V or Johnson. Heck, they should not have fired Randolph.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I’m a Yankees fan.

  • Harry F

    or they can score more than 2 runs a game…

  • jason bay

    Rubin is an IDIOT.

    If he thinks you can turn around an entire organization in 3 drafts and IFA signing periods then we are talking Moron Central. As for the low cost productive players how about Chris Young (pitcher), Capuano, Izzy, Cedeno, Hairston, Byrd, Hawkins, Rice……? What they don’t count?

    Pagan was a guy they weren’t going to be able to re-sign entering his walk year who had very little value. They did make a poor trade but it cost us a year of Pagan, Big deal. Clearly holding onto him at the deadline was the right move but just like the cheapo signings you cannot expect everything to work out every time and because of that bank restriction on increasing payroll were limited in what they could trade Pagan for. Still and all they should have waited to the deadline and Carrasco, and FFF were big reaches.

    As for the buzz in 2005, adding Pedro and Beltran to Reyes, Wright, Floyd, Cameron, Glavine, Piazza, Heilman….Not exactly the same as adding Colon and Granderson. Free agency SUCKS now. More busts than ever before and a much more limited supply of choices hence the increased cost.

    If the Mets while building for the present had also concentrated on putting something away for the future when money was no object we would be in good shape right now but you cannot force teams to trade you the players you need and we don’t have nearly enough of them in the upper levels of the minors.

  • Sylow59

    Thanks. I’ve been a fan since 1967. I’m frustrated too but I like what I see in the way of minor league construction and patience on the part of the FO. Panicking for quick gain is what created the mess in the first place.

    And the argument that Omar is responsible for Wheeler, … is flat out goofy.

    I think the slowness is due to the utter implosion of Ike and Tejada. Plus Harvey and Parnell being out the season doesn’t help. Gotta go

  • Harry F

    if he hit on the bargain basement free agents then we would be good right? there’s a reason why cheap free agents are cheap, its because they aren’t good.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Love that this article comes out the same day as Sandy dodges the questions about calling up prospects. Collins wants them up and puts pressure on Sandy to do so, and instead, Sandy dodges the issue and says nothing, hanging Terry out to dry.

    This is what Collins has to work with. Say what you want about his in-game skills, but Collins get z-e-r-o support from the FO. Collins deserves some props for putting pressure on the FO to make changes, but instead it’s being called another ‘PR flub.’

  • You see, I have evidence that you’re not.

  • seldomused

    The blame lies everywhere. We have ownership that can’t open up its pockets because they dirtied their hands with a convicted criminal, we have a GM who clearly does not want to rock the boat, and we have a Manager who is incompetent when it comes to in game decisions (and who is ruining our younger players). Pair all of that with the team’s pathetic player, public and fan relations, and you have a recipe for disaster.

    The Wilpons will most likely not fire Sandy any time soon, but I think we need some sort of shake up at the team level. Yes, they just gave Collins an extension, but it’s time this organization became accountable for its decisions (and mistakes) and takes action to fix things. The entire team is lifeless, and it shows every game. The team’s (under) performance falls on the coaches, the talent of the team and management staff falls on the GM and Ownership.

    Something needs to change, but it will never happen unless the organization is willing to accept and admit that what they are doing right now is not working. Until then we’re going to watch lifeless baseball as our young players’ confidence is ground into nothing.

  • seldomused

    I agree. Sandy’s biggest mistake has been his lack of action. This wait and see approach is growing tiring. I’m not saying we should sign a player just to sign a player (ie: Granderson), but this team isn’t going to compete unless we bring in some fresh players.

  • EzRider

    #1. BUD SELIG.

  • jimmy705

    Agree with everything you say. I just wish I had enough faith in the Wilpons/Alderson to take those next steps…to sign/trade for the missing pieces. The Hojos and Teufels and, of course, the Gary Carter.

    They’ve shown no sign of being willing to even add the money for the Bob Ojeda (well, the offensive version), much less the Carter.

  • seldomused

    We don’t know what the team saw in terms of value for Jose Abreu..all we do know is that they didn’t think the investment was worth it.

  • Helloboy

    The team just does not have max effort and seems listless for many games and for large parts of other games. I just do not see how Terry has these guys excited to play baseball. They should be fired up.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I’ve been sent by Brian Cashman. I’m a double agent. You’ve exposed me. I now need a new identity and cover story.

    Thanks a lot.

    Also, I see that you are not following me, which hurts. 🙁

  • TAPE_LGM_JETS

    · People can argue that Torres, Izzy, Hairston, Hawkins, Rice, Byrd were
    all good signings. Buck was not bad especially that he was shipped off
    for decent prospects. Capuano was not awful either. he has had his share
    of bad ones [Carrasco, Rauch, Franciso, EMAUS, marcum, Lyon, Cowgill].
    But in all honesty, do you think if he had any sort of financial
    flexibility he would be signing all these players? We can say he’s
    failed, which he has. But let us give him credit for some of the things
    that did work out for absolutely nothing.

  • LOL well played.

  • FL Met Fan Rich

    II don’t think the “Man Upstairs” could win with this team! People are tired of waiting.

    II cant believe that many people actually she up to their games!

    I think Met fans are most disgusted with the whole organization.

    I wonder what the comments would have been like Iif the Mets lost yesterday?

  • SRT

    This ^

  • DrDooby

    The Marlins – besides the great Jose Fernandez – are benefitting from high-end youngsters they signed between 2007 and 2010 (Stanton, Yelich, Ozuna and others) and have several pieces they acquired in trades for expensive free agents like Reyes & Buehrle over the past couple of years (Alvarez, Hecchevaria, plus Marisnick & Nicolino in the minors). Also, they don´t care what these players will be making in 2017 as they´ll already have started their next rebuilding cycle by then. There is 0 chance that both Jose Fernandez and Giancarlo Stanton are on the Marlins 2017 Opening Day Roster. Not when they´ll be making a combined 45+ million per year by then.

  • jimmy705

    Agree. But, as I said to the next commenter, all the careful development can’t equal the unwillingness (or inability) to leap when you see the chance. The 1983 Mets were terrible, but they were at that point, and what happened? The resigned Hernandez (he could have been a rental), spent money and players on Ojeda, and, of course, took the leap on Gary Carter.

    I think such moves are essential. Do you see the Mets being able or willing to do this? No evidence so far.

  • Waz0787

    Amen. Rubin perfectly written. To all the Alderson lovers don’t feel hurt. Yes he stocked up our minor league but all the major league contract he gave out were busts. That includes CY and Granderson.. Byrd and Hawkins were minor league signing. Prospects are prospects until they prove they can adjust to big league they’re nothing. TDA has been given every chance to succeed but can’t hit in the majors.

  • TAPE_LGM_JETS

    I just posted something similar down below. People want to point out all the failed moves, but he has had some nice ones also. The fact remains that these are all financial moves, limiting the talent that we can acquire.

  • depressed Mets fan

    Batting TdA infront of Tejada. Granted TdA hasn’t done much to warrant hitting else where but I agree with Joe D’s take here that TdA should bat 2nd infront of Murphy in hopes he sees some pitches to hit. And the first few weeks of the season Terry constantly downplayed how good Lagares was playing.

  • seldomused

    The players on the team is not Terry’s fault, but the lack of life the players show and the severe under-performance is. Terry’s in game decisions and lack of faith in his own players is making matters worse.

    (ie: Pulling Gee after 81 pitches Saturday, and putting in Abreu for d’Arnaud with the bases loaded).

  • Just_Da_damaja

    Adam went at Sandy in 2012 for not trading scott hairston…

    sandy’s response…

    “Well, maybe you’re not a Mets fan, Adam,” Alderson said. “Or you’re not a Mets employee. Or you’re not a Mets observer. You’re certainly a Mets reporter. It’s not clear to me you have the same mindset as all the other constituencies that relate to the Mets.”

    thats the only time in 4 years he ever challenged Sandy at all…which was in complete contrast to Omar, who he 2nd guessed every day.

  • Helloboy

    By all means, please explain to me the Marlins, who have spent less on Free Agents and get max play from guys like McGhee and Jones? The only guy they really paid is Salty. They answer is they get more effort from their players because they are prepared to play better.

    Again, this is not refuting anything. The Marlins are playing like a possible division winner a year after they were one of the worst teams in history and the free agent adds were Salty, Mcheee and Jones. That is it.

    Why? Because they use the best talent they have regardless of age. If they are ready, they play. The managers also get people energized to play and take his message to heart.

    The Mets have just as much talent available to them and are getting less than half the results.

  • jimmy705

    Enjoy your posts, even if they drive me crazy sometimes, Guy.

  • depressed Mets fan

    I’m just curious, while I’m very happy that Sandy is finally being raked over the coals, why are the Wilpons going completely unscathed by the media ?

  • seldomused

    At the same time, you can’t disregard how poor of an in game manager Terry Collins is. The team is lifeless, and that lies on the manager, not the GM or Owner.

  • PessiMets

    I’ve been saying it all along, sandy has done a piss poor job here. Any gm.can make two or three good moves in 4 years. ANY GM

  • TAPE_LGM_JETS

    Free agency has not been that great though. Okay so we want a SS, would you have offered the contracts to Drew or Peralta? I wouldn’t have. The only criticism I have is that Abreu was not considered, but a lot of that has to do with his inability to play first base in the long run.

  • john q

    The main point of criticism should be directed at the Wilpons. They’re the ones that created this mess. They set the payroll limit. They are a bunch of 2-bit con artists that ruined the finances of the Mets.

    I really can’t believe how the media protects these guys. Steinbrenner used to get killed and mocked regularly by the media for 10-15 years in the 80’s-early 90’s.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    the haul they’ll get back for those players will more than make up for it though

    when it comes to scouting

    Marlins >>>>>>> Moneyball Team

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    So who bats in front of Tejada? Is whoever that is being set up to fail? Someone has to bat in front of Tejada.

  • WilponsStinkLessNow

    The Cubs draw though, and they’ve never had problems with ownership not supporting the team, in recent years anyway. I dunno, I guess I’m an optimist, if you can call this an optimist view.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Some of these guys just aren’t any good. It’s not all “under-performance.” And a lot of it has to do with this terrible hitting philosophy, which is Sandy’s.

    And the whole Gee thing is dumb. Just a month ago we were all screaming every time Gee got to 90 pitches that he needs to come out. Fans would post here non stop that Collins was ignoring the numbers. Then he pulls Gee at 81 and he’s “too by the book” and “not using his gut.” Flip flop. Flip flop.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Haha. Thank you.

  • TAPE_LGM_JETS

    Also the lack of good FA available. Everyone builds from within these days, except the Yanks. Everyone is retaining their players young, and all FA are over 30 by the time they hit the market.

  • AJ NISBETT

    I’m starting to believe that the wilpons have no say at all anymore I think mlb is controling this team cause the wipons are not saying anything at all

  • Hotstreak

    Oh Rubin is so biased he is such a Minaya lover. “lover’ used for effect and not to be mean.

  • Waz0787

    For last 3 or 4 years mets have been saying this going to be our years. Most fans were anxious, except this is the same crap we have have been fed to for last couple of years. Great pitching but bullpen sucks and offense is pathetic. Another 4th-5th place finish. Philadelphia are worse than us at least pitching wise.

  • Waz0787

    If they did. They would’ve sold this team.

  • Sylow59

    Yes I do. There hasn’t been a need to trade prospects thus yet. Further, although most fan can determine the greatness to be of a prospect in an inning or two most real baseball people need more time. There is no reason to trade anyone at this point. The Cards held everyone largely because theVG+ MLB talent was/is very expensive at the moment and they were not 100% certain would they wanted to keep. I would assume the same holds for the Mets. Once they determine which cohort group a player falls in and once they can get an impact player for less then they’re trading then they will make the deal (s).

  • EzRider

    I agree about the energy level of the team. It just seems that when certain players are in the line-up the team just seems more “up”. As good bad or ugly as they may be i’d start sitting CY in favor of EY. Maybe shake up the order a bit.
    #1. EY/Lagares/Wright/Duda/Flores/Murph/Grandy/d’Arnaud.
    OR
    #2. EY/Lagares/Murph/Wright/Duda/Flores/Grandy/d’Arnaud. Go with that for a while and see how they respond.

    This is the problem with having no true LO or CU hitters.

  • LOL When I first started this Disqus thing I started following who I could thinking this was some sort of Twitter-type thing. After a day or so I stopped following altogether. That said, I’m following you now if only to show some solidarity between Mets fans and Yankee fans in the spirit of the Subway Series. 🙂 Just kidding.

  • I don’t understand this Marlins bandwagon. Yeah they’ve been great at home in the early going. They are also the worst road team in baseball to this point. The worst. Behind the dbacks, cubs and Astros. They have won 3 of *16* away games so far. Good teams don’t do that

  • CyYout

    Sandy will be replacing Selig in January so he isn’t going to be fired by the Mets.

  • Charley’s Twin

    Here’s a novel idea, how about we blame the Wilpons?

  • frank

    right on need2go you hit the nail on the head

  • Charley’s Twin

    when the team is a complete dumpster fire and has been for years, most objective analysis is going to be quite negative.

  • elsid1986

    Rubin exposes the fraud Alderson is and those that worship Sandy cant handle it. The Mets are on their way to a 4th straight losing season under Mr. Money Ball. Attendance is down over 2 million since Sandy took over…..TV ratiings are in the toilet. WFAN kicked them to the curb. As Rubin says there is so much anger and distrust and frustration that is erroding the fan base. But none of that matters because hey, Sandy has a plan.
    Finally Alderson’s feet are being held to the fire by the NY media. And it will only grow more intense as the team inevitably tanks this summer. And its about damn time.

    The 2 best lines of the whole article:
    “Yet the frustration also is a result of an I’m-smarter-than-you smugness that fans perceive is coming from the front office, and which seems so out of place given its actual accomplishments beyond auctioning off Beltran and R.A. Dickey.”
    “The Mets seem to always need to win the trade, or there is inaction. Did they really need to still evaluate Ike Davis versus Lucas Duda in spring training after seeing them for the three previous years? When the Mets indicated they were not pursuing Jose Abreu during the offseason because they already had three first basemen, how can you have full faith in their evaluation skills?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    We’re going to kick a$$.

    I’ll let you decide who the “we” is!

  • Captain America

    All these clown writers taking stabs at the clown gm’s.

    Funny stuff. Why don’t they compare and contrast the mets rebuild under Alderson to others going on or recently completed. Or would that take a little work and analysis rather that just moaning and griping?

    Sandman not doing so well – show us the facts…

  • The problem is that we seem to have a package deal of Wilpons/Alderson/Collins. The Wilpons need Alderson to try to deflect the blame by retrofitting arguments into their complete inability or lack of desire to spend and they all need Collins as the yes man who will just do what he is told. Regarding Collins, some of these odd situations where he says one thing and does another or speaks out of turn about his pitchers may be indicative of an issue. I can see him finally getting fired if he is finally attempting to speak his mind a little through the press. The problem is that they may just bring in another company man as opposed to a guy like Backman.

  • Hodges14

    But if the price was, say, six losing seasons under his watch first — plus the two from Minaya that preceded it — was that really great front-office work? Or if you fail enough seasons, is it simply inevitable that at some point you’ll accrue enough young talent to be competitive again?

    Bingo. Intentionally dumping seasons is never acceptable. Intentionally dumping 1/2 a decade is despicable.

  • Lost in my response to Rubin was the impetus that led to Rubin writing this column in the first place. Terry Collins.

    Managers are always open to criticism and I surely did a lot of criticizing of Collins this weekend. Between the two articles I wrote and what I was posting on Twitter, I may have well been the person who led him to his response.

    What Rubin posted has nothing to do with many of the bad decisions Collins has made during the last road trip and the first two games at home. Him blaming Sandy for the backlash really has no bearing and doesn’t change the fact that Collins made some very bad decisions.

    They are still bad decisions.

  • Hodges14

    Alderson and Collins should both be shown the door if this 90 win team doesn’t win 90 games this season.

  • AJ NISBETT

    No selig nd the wilpons r butt budies linstead of making them sell they jus give up control while they still make money

  • Hotstreak

    How about the car salesman from Milwaukee in addition to the Wilpons.

  • DrDooby

    I don´t blame him for wasting 2 million on DJ Carrasco or 3 million on Jon Rauch or 4 million on Marcum and others. That´s easily balanced by a bunch of very useful less expensive pieces such as Izzy, Hairston, Byrd, Hawkins, Capuano, Byrdak, etc.

    Alderson´s main failures prior to 2014 were not getting sufficient value in return for Jose Reyes and wasting 12 million $ on Frank Francisco. Everything else that he´s being blamed for is of very little relevance and didn´t hurt the Mets at all. And these mistakes are easily balanced by signing Dickey & Niese to team-friendly deals, turning 2 months of Beltran into 6 1/2 years of Zack Wheeler and one year of RA Dickey into d´Arnaud & Syndergaard.

    The jury remains out on the two significant moves for 2014, i.e. signing Granderson & Colon. Plus it´s obviously a problem that he failed to address SS somehow. And the jury remains out on the first three drafts – and will remain out for at least another 2 to 3 years, naturally.

    Since 2014 is supposed to be the “turnaround” season, equivalent to 2005, 1997 or 1984, he needs to start being more proactive about the major league roster. Swapping in Flores & Campbell for Q and Satin is a solid 1st step. But the bullpen has to be changed NOW.

  • AJ NISBETT

    Were the new montreal expoes

  • All so true and arrogance is the perfect word to describe everything about the Wilpons and Alderson. Alderson has evolved from potential savior, to a man with a plan preaching patience, to smugly deflecting all criticism with absolutely no results. The Wilpons haven’t really evolved as they’ve been smug and bumbling for many years now.

  • Flatbush0460

    So Alderson is the real problem, except of course for The Wilpons, who are the real problem. Makes no sense

  • Hodges14

    They are all problems. The franchise is dysfunctional from top to bottom.

  • mattbalasis

    Low minors people (in fact the entire minor league system) look at the low minors. If SA succeeds this team will be dominant for a decade … probably starting with the 2nd half of 2014. Rubin is a pompous dweeb who doesn’t know nearly as much as he thinks he does.If I’m wrong I’ll eat my hat. Coming to Terry’s defense is … astonishing … honestly has Rubin been watching the games? Terry is a maniac, his moves are mind blowing at times. He had CY bunt with a guy on deck who had 1 ML at bat … think about that for a sec.

  • TDA has been given every chance to succeed? By batting him 7/8 from the word go? Sorry, but I strongly disagree. There is no other team that would treat their number one hitting prospect the way Collins did. He was setup to fail. He should have been batted second, especially with his approach which happens to be exactly what this front office has been preaching for four years. I bet Sandy would have liked to have seen his biggest acquisition of his tenure handled better than he has been by Collins.

  • jason bay

    Not making a trade is better than losing one wouldn’t you say?

    As for Abreu the owners simply didn’t have the 10 M signing bonus to give him in December and in fact were probably prohibited from doing so until the loan was re-financed which I believe was in February.

    Their taking the slow an patient approach which is the opposite of the one that has gotten us to the post season 3 times in 25 years.

  • Charley’s Twin

    you’re right. It’s quite an ecosystem they’ve created in Flushing.

  • Hodges14

    Ellsbury and Tanaka seem to be doing pretty well with the Yankees. Maybe it’s not that free agency sucks it’s that Alderson sucks at choosing which free agents to sign?

  • Xavier 22

    I agree that Bud Selig is the worst thing to happen to baseball since the introduction of the DH, but in terms of the Mets’ current situation, the Wilpons deserve the lion’s share of the blame.

  • TAPE_LGM_JETS

    Do you know our angry the fans would have been if we traded Reyes while he was having a career year? He did botch it, but I can assure you that not many GMs would have traded a guy batting .330. They may have not made him an offer, but the Marlins jumped on him and quickly signed him.

    As for the bullpen- come summer time, which many fans hate to hear, we could possibly have Familia, Black, Walters, Mejia [hopefully not and he stays in rotation and pitches well] Mazzoni, and Thornton. With the returned of Parnell next year, we can have 6 guys who throw 95 or harder and are good chips. I think he is banking on that as the main solution, with the addition of a lefty or veteran

  • Hotstreak

    I agree TC made and his whole MO has been to make on field terrible decisions:

    BUT independent of that, the whole FO led by SA had handled rebuilding wrong. If at the get go they got market value for Reyes, trade DW and we lost 100 games in 2011 and 2012, with Murphy, Niese, Gee , Dickey and Harvey we would have had cheap players who earn their money 10 fold.

    By now we would be very competitive with additional prospects from Reyes and Wright and Omar’s parting gifts the late signing prospects..

    Yes we had Santana Bay and Perez as albatrose contracts, but with no Reyes and Wright payroll would have been about the same.

  • Hodges14

    Alderson had Wright, Reyes and Beltran that he could have traded off for similar returns. He chose to trade Beltran for an A ball pitcher that shows promise, let Reyes walk for nothing and re-signed 30 year old Wright to a big contract and proceeded to surround him with no help.

  • Charley’s Twin

    Absolutely!

  • jimmy705

    If you almost never make a trade/signing because you fear “losing” it, you’re no GM. Frank Cashen lost the George Foster trade, his first big one, but that didn’t paralyze him, and for several years after he took advantage of other GMs in nearly every trade.

    I look at the Mets minor-league system, and I see a couple of potential jewels (Syndegaard above all); some long-term possibilities (Nimmo, Cecchini); and a WHOLE lot of the kind of player that helps a AAA team win, but is of little use to a ML team (Dykstra, Teagarden, etc.) Who cares if those kind of players hit four consecutive HRs and the 51s score 16 runs?

    You seem so angry at people who are skeptical about the direction of the team. I just don’t see what you’re seeing.

  • elsid1986

    Better than losing one? Not in all instances. There is no way Davis should have been on the opening day roster. But as Rubin clearly points out. Sandy thinks he is smarter than everyone else and wanted a young stud. But as it turns out. Whatever he got for Davis in April. He could have gotten in January. (Sandy’s words not mine) So Why wait?
    Sign Abreu instead of Chris Young and you dont have that problem.
    Slow approach? More like stuck in the mud approach do nothing approach..

  • jimmy705

    Dominant for a decade???? With WHAT position players? Are you really talking about people like Nimmo leading the way to our dominance?

  • TAPE_LGM_JETS

    SS is a dilemma, all the potential trades [Owings, Franklin, etc] would have cost us at least Montero [I would never do that]. Rubin sucks and anyone is better, but Drew at his value is not worth it and peralta for 54 mill or whatever is not worth it either. So who do you recommend as a solution. It is easy to point out a flaw, a lot harder to solve it, especially since no one reaches FA anymore. Let’s say Wilmer struggles and is not a SS, and we go into the offseason with Lowrie, Hanley [I doubt we spend on him], Hardy and others available, and Sandy doesn’t do anything, that is when I will be angry. Right now, the options out there are not worth it and would not make us that much better.

  • Hodges14

    Even if all that turns out to be true the point of the article is that it’s not ok to intentionally piss away the better part of a decade to get there.

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    It’s interesting, however, to see the kind of response (Rubin) turning down an interview request (Alderson) will generate. Not sure circling the wagons is the best response at this time given the intense dissatisfaction, at least as evidenced on MMO…

  • TAPE_LGM_JETS

    Really? With what money is Sandy getting Ellsbury and Tanaka?

  • Hodges14

    What are the odds that Parnell is even tendered a contract for next year? He’ll be coming off neck and TJ surgery. His success is far from guaranteed.

  • TAPE_LGM_JETS

    Agreed, but still cannot give up on his arm. He is fairly young and is a proven commodity. He will be tendered I hope.

  • Charley’s Twin

    I think you’re right. Who can forget the Omar Minaya Adam Rubin “lobbying” incident?

  • jimmy705

    The argument here goes that you HAVE to take 5-7 years to rebuild…even though there are countless examples of teams doing it much more quickly.

  • Mets4ever

    Sandy to Fred. ” Fred we can be more competitive if I bring up the kids. However it will cost you more money down the road. What do you want me to do? Fred’s response “Save the money but remember I’m paying you 2.5 million to be the fall guy here”

  • Nemo22

    The problem with the Mets start at the top and go all the way down.
    1. Fred Wilpons is a closet Dodger fan. Don’t believe me? What stadium does Citi-Field look like and who played there? Whose Rotunda is there and what team did he played for?
    2. Sandy is a Genius on his own mind. Going into 4 years and the team is much worse than the one he took over. Yes, he has gotten better pitching prospects for the minor but where are the position players? Where are the replacements for Beltran, Reyes, Delgado? Instead of signing sure bet players he signs strikeout machines which is exactly what this team did not need. Then he totally overpays for Chris Young because he once had a great year. Big deal.
    There were plenty of players to make the Mets a good team with a chance of winning at the very least the division.
    3. Terry Collins has been given a bad team but it doesn’t excuse his mindless decisions, lineups, foot in mouth disease.
    Going into the season I wanted Beltran, Byrd, Hawkins, Peralta and Kazmir as the 2nd LH starter. But we got Graderson and his 150+ strikeouts and 200 batting average. CY to try catching lightning in a bottle. Dice K, Valverde and Farmsworth in order to replace Hawkins while costing more. Colon and his out of shape body instead of a rebounding Kazmir and another round of Tejada.
    The Joke as usual was on us fans.

  • mattbalasis

    It’s not? The reason it’s taken (3.3 years actually) this long is because SA has been slashing the budget EVERY YEAR … you think if we had the ($$) liberty to sign 6 or 7 additional quality free agents over the past few years this team’s fortunes wouldn’t have improved? The ML club has been neglected by necessity, but it’s also allowed SA to direct the focus to the minors. Until this year (and this year mostly because some of the pitching is starting to come on line) I don’t think SA cared one iota about the major league club.

  • Hodges14

    Agreed. All that’s happening since the day Alderson got here is stalling while the Wilpons desperately try to find a way to hold on to the team.

  • TAPE_LGM_JETS

    I think everyone in the world knows that Els is a great player, when healthy. Let’s wait a couple years and see if he stays healthy. Tanaka is a stud and is a great deal, but the Mets were not going to spend on unknowns, especially since we don’t necessarily need to be adding pitchers. I think Colon was signed with the hopes that he has a good half and can be traded mid season to someone for prospects. If he does well, whether we contend or not, he should be shipped and replaced by one of the young fellas.

  • Hodges14

    You don’t think that’s a problem? That the GM would not care one iota about the major league club that he’s been in charge of for 4 off seasons now?

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    Bingo. It’s really rotten to the core (sorry for the reference)…

  • Hodges14

    That’s not the point. The original post in this thread says Free Agency SUCKS now. It doesn’t suck for everyone.

  • Matlack

    While none of us are privy to the facts, this theory may hold water. I’ve always believed that Jeff is the real organizational problem-not Fred so much. Someone with Alderson’s CV is obviously not going to be cowed by Junior, so how does Junior fight against his direct report, one with more gravitas, education and professional accomplishments than he has? Simple-by proxy.

    The anonymous nasty comments about players(Beltran, Dickey, et al), the situation with AAA affiliates, all roads lead back to Jeff. Criticize Alderson for his baseball decisions all you want, and as a fan that’s justified, but Sandy is all that prevents a reprise of Jeff the shadow GM. Omar laid it all out for Sandy when he took the job.

  • Hotstreak

    One more thing it is 2014, those contracts are off the books. we now have FA over 30 not producing and taking up spots from prospects,

  • Hodges14

    The problem is that aside from Wright he has no one worthy of hitting in the middle of the lineup. The roster is very poorly constructed. You have a multitude of 2nd and 8th place hitters (many of them are questionable even for those roles).

  • Out of place Mets fan

    I dont want to wait until loss # 72 to get rid of TC

  • mattbalasis

    I’ll take the word of OTHER GM’s over Adam Rubin (still lobbying for a F.O. job? lol) thank you very much … and, while I’m kidding with the lobbying, I’ve seen him (with my own eyes) palling and shmoozing with Jeffie … while he’s always been super critical of upper management. J. Diamond is Ok, Carig is the best (really nice guy), even Ackert is nice enough, but Rubin came off as a pompous stuck up dweeb I’m sorry.

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    Who hired Terry Collins? If he’s not executing your vision, you replace him. Or is it that *you* really don’t care?

  • metsman

    Don’t tell me who to blame you rube! Collins is a terrible manager…just because a bunch of other things about this franchise suck too doesn’t change that in the slightest. Terry is about as clueless of what to do with a line up as Sandy is with 50 million.

  • Hodges14

    I think it might be the best response. It seems anytime anyone from this franchise speak to the media they put their foot in their mouth and then there is more effort expended on damage control after the fact. They should just focus their efforts on putting a winning team on the field and let their performance talk for them.

  • Hodges14

    No one does but with a 2 year contract he’s not going anywhere for a while.

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    In a perfect world, yes, but that doesn’t seem to be the plan either…

  • Suffering Mets Fan

    Sandy swung and missed this past off season, as much as I think we all wanted to believe some of these moves would work out they were not a fit for this team. Once again the Wilpons couldn’t afford to pay the talent the Mets desperately needed.

    Choo would have been a perfect fit for this team, we got Granderson…

    Drew could have filled SS for 2 years

    Abreu, well what can I say look at the #’s he’s putting up…

    Sandy spent roughly 20 million this year for Colon & Young, how much better could that have been spent.

  • TAPE_LGM_JETS

    It’s just overreactions – they just killed us so everyone is loving them. The dude who has a 1.99 era [Koehler] is 28 and has been in the minors for awhile. He had a 4.41 era last year, yet people are referring to him as one of the ‘studs’. They are relying on Mchgee, Jones, and Salty, all of which will come back to life. The only valid argument is that their outfield looks like the real deal, especially yelich and MIKE

  • mattbalasis

    Yes I do, but I think he had no choice, with a limited budget his only other choice was to divert resources away from the minors to secure 5 or 6 additional wins for the major league club which wouldn’t have made a difference anyway — lose lose. And actually I don’t think he had those resources anyway whereas the new CBA delineates spending rather categorically so the Mets would have been remiss not to take advantage of their draft position. At least by focusing on the minors it’s lose now win later.

  • TAPE_LGM_JETS

    If I asked you who would you rather sign prior to the year, Grandy, Young, and Colon, or Jones, Mcghee, or Salty, who would you choose?

  • Hodges14

    I’d say more like a check swing and a miss. He still accomplished he major overall goal of lowering payroll.

  • Suffering Mets Fan

    touche

  • DrDooby

    You´d have kept Dickey and traded Wright instead ??? So, no Syndergaard and no d´Arnaud (and so who is the C ?). And realistically, the return for Wright wouldn´t have been significantly more than the Dickey haul.
    We can agree that Reyes should have been traded too and turned into more value than the two draft picks (who were used on Kevin Plawecki & Matt Reynolds). So basically, we´d have the haul for Reyes on the roster now, say Angels SS Erick Aybar and OF Peter Bourjos. Would that have turned the Mets into contenders ?

    Matt Harvey probably is out for all of 2014 even in an alternate scenario.

    Again, it´s tougher than ever finding impact free agent bats. So by trading David Wright, who is in the middle of the Mets lineup ?

  • Hodges14

    Then why not clean house as soon as he got here. He had valuable assets in Beltran, Reyes, Wright, Niese, Parnell, etc who he could have traded and done a real rebuild.

  • mattbalasis

    That is absolutely true — but at the same time I think SA somewhat covertly, has totally overhauled the minors while everyone was distracted complaining about the major league club (which was going to suck in any event given their budget).

  • jimmy705

    Great post, Matlack. (And I like your screen name–Matlack was my favorite Mets pitcher for a few years there.)

    It’s chilling to think that if Sandy goes, Jeff will have all the power.

  • $14435385

    That’s the key. Winning is, and will continue to be, subordinate to keeping the team and keeping a payroll that allows them to sustain their margins. I’m not giving Sandy a pass by any means – his judgment has been terrible on free agents he’s signed and passed on – but when your owners tie your arms behind your back, there’s only so hard you can punch. The jury’s out on his draft picks…can’t really judge those until 2015-16 or so.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    u mean like boston’s ?

  • goorru

    What’s really going on.

  • jason bay

    Prior GM’s traded eight future all Stars (Cruz, Mora, Everett, Bay, Kazmir, Izzy, Bell and Gomez) (9 if you count Bautista) and put Reyes and Wright on the table (for Alomar and Jose Cruz Jr.)

    There were also numerous other useful young players traded or let go in Payton, Scutaro, Bannister, Lindstrom, Vargas, Smith and O’Day, not to mention 1st and 2nd rounders given up for Zeile, Appier, Floyd, Weathers, Pedro, Wagner, Alou, K-Rod and Bay.

    If the slower and more patient approach had been exhibited in the past we could have been rolling out an OF of Cruz, Beltran and Bay with Pagan as a 4th OFer and Gomez not rushed up here at 21 in 2006-2009 and had Kazmir in the rotation with Lindstrom and Bell in the pen.

    Same thing goes for 2000 with Everett in RF, Izzy at closer.

    By trying to fix things at the last minute we not only failed in the present but opened up more holes in the future.

    You can’t give up your best draft picks, turn down the chance to take back others, strip the farm and expect not to have a bubble in the system.

  • TAPE_LGM_JETS

    Fair point- but using the Yankees as an example is not fair. They have unlimited spending. Elsb and Tanaka have panned out THUS FAR [I am sure Tanaka will for the whole contract but elsb is bout to get hurt and his legs wont last for 7 years], but you can make an argument that McCann and Beltran have not, because they have not done much. Again, those are four type A players that we simply cannot afford.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    Juan Centeno is the perfect #2 hitter.

    just saying

  • Waz0787

    He is responsible. He hired that bum. The whole coaching staff and trainer should be out of a job. He is making the decisions. He has to have a voice how lineup is managed. He was hired for one simple reason decrease the payroll. Which he has done a magnificent job.

  • mattbalasis

    Well he hasn’t been perfect trading off assets for prospects (no GM is). They botched Reyes, I think they’d be the first to admit that (although Plawecki is looking pretty good these days), Neise is young (and also very good) and Parnell is also young (and cheap), Beltran and Dickey netted us a pretty good haul.

  • Hotstreak

    I did not say that. Do not twist. Dickey was not a CY winner when SA took over. I was taking about SA moves when he took over Nov 2010 and DW value was at peak (yes his option was extend a year if he stay a Met) and Reyes proved healthy ST 2011.

  • Pedro’s Rooster

    It’s not an either/or situation. BOTH have their responsibilities, and both have fallen short of fulfilling those responsibilities.

    Sandy has not built a competitive ML team yet. I feel that he has a lot of constraints that impact his ability to be successful (Wilpon finance issues).

    TC has not effectively demonstrated on-field managing competency. True, part of this is due to a lack of talent in certain areas of the roster. but his decision-making and how he deploys his talent is questionable at best.

    Rubin is too smart to actually believe it’s either/or, but it’ll get page clicks and get the fanbase all fired up over who to hate more.

  • Hodges14

    Daniel Murphy is the perfect #2 hitter. They need middle of the order hitters.

  • goorru

    These are prospects, just look at Wheeler, is he dominant?

  • john q

    Agreed, Rubin’s articles are moronic and simplemined. This looks like something I’d read in a college newspaper.

    You can’t defend TC’s moves with Chris Young. You cannot make him bunt in that situation period. TC got caught up in the emotion of the rookie making his MLB debut. And once the count went to 3-0 it was idiotic to keep the bunt on. Chris Young is a lifetime .400 hitter with a .740 on base% and a .930 slugging percentage on 3-1 counts. Playing for one run was also pointless anyway because the Phillies took the lead in the 9th anyway. The rookie manager Sandberg cleaned Terry’s clock on Saturday. Collins is mediocre manager.

    It’s interesting to note that he doesn’t make one reference to the Wilpons incompetence and financial shenanigans in the entire piece. It’s almost as if Sandy just magically sets the payroll limits because it’s coming out of his pocket.

    Everyone should have known (Media/fans) that the first 3 years of Alderson’s tenure was to clean up the mess of Omar/Wilpons. Now they’re also dealing with the massive financial disaster of the Wilpons.

    I’m kind of laughing at some of Rubin’s comments about the bullpen when Omar just released Mike Adams in 2006 and put him on waivers. And then who is the relief pitcher on the Phillies…. MIke Adams. The announcers were also strangely and enviously praising Mike Adams not realizing that he was with the Mets in 2006.

    Pagan didn’t get along with TC that’s why he was traded.

    Rubin’s comment about Pedro was dumb because Pedro was a horrible signing. Omar trade ledger was mostly terrible with the exception of Pagan, El-Duque and Maine.

    The Giancarlo Stanton comment was dumb. Stanton was s 2nd round pick (76th) in 2007 meaning every team in the majors had a chance to draft him at least once. The Mets had two picks before 76 and they took Eddie Kuntz and Nathan Vineyard.

    I love these hypothetical trades these writers come up with as if the Marlins are going to just hand over Stanton for nothing.

    Free agency has changed because teams no lock up players for long term deals.

    The “buzz” in 2005 was partly funded by a ponzi scheme which he conveniently failed to mention.

  • Captain America

    If in your infinite wisdom you believe Boston was a rebuild then sure

  • seldomused

    For the record I’ve never been in that group of fans. Gee was pitching great after the rough first inning. If he ran into trouble that’s one thing. Anyway I was just using it as an example to show that Collins has more impact on the struggles of this team than people think.

  • metsman

    Of all the free agents available in the 7+ million range are there any that are doing as poorly as Granderson and Young? Coincidence? Is it us? Or does it make absolutely no sense to spend the most money on two players coming off their worst years as well as injuries when you FINALLY have money to spend, when everyone who was defending you argued that you had no money to spend? 50 million when you really didn’t have spend on starting pitching is more than enough especially when he knew he wasn’t going to upgrade shortstop all along? Two players with low 200 batting averages? Really? I agree with Rubin…but I fail to see how any of this takes Collins off the hook; we don’t need Ruben to interpret what’s going on. ..we all watch the damn games and see the old man commit blunder after blunder. It’s simply consistent with the front office ineptitude.

  • Captain America

    Let’s applaud a 6 year deal after 4 good weeks

  • Mikey

    Yes but the truth of the situation is… the RIGHT decision wasn’t really going to be or sure to be all that much better than the BAD decision!

    Which is why Rubin is saying what he did!

  • Suffering Mets Fan

    I’m sure the league will adjust to him, but can you deny he has more talent than Duda?

  • jimmy705

    You’re right about the hasty moves in the past, and the mindless ones, too. (Omar letting BOTH Bradford and Oliver go??).

    Where we differ is in seeing the current approach as being more likely to lead to longterm success. I simply don’t see the “sure thing” minor-leaguers that five or seven years of losing should lead to…In the early 1980s, people obviously KNEW that Strawberry and Gooden were destined for success, but the buzz around Darling, Fernandez, Lenny Dykstra, Kevin Mitchell, Rick Aguilera etc etc was also stronger than we’re hearing about anyone not named Thor. Instead, we have hopes (Nimmo) and dreams and a bunch of too-old-for-their-level minor-league players.

    At least that’s how it looks from here.

  • Suffering Mets Fan

    Not to mention he is making less than Chris Young…

  • TheMets philosophy

    Rubin is spot on. Most good managers have good teems. Torre was an idiot till he went to the yankees were he became a Hall of fame manager (im not saying that collins isnt an idiot he is, just when you have a good teem it makes it easier same way if Travis d’arnoud would be better if he was batting in front of miguel cabrera! it makes it “easier” doesnt make the pearson better just makes it easier for him to succeed!

  • Hodges14

    Young is doing better than last year. Why would anyone have expected any more from him than he’s done for the Mets this year?

  • jimmy705

    By your theory, should the Mets always just offer one-year deals, to minimize risk?

    Oh, that’s right…that’s mostly what they do. How’s that working?

  • Mikey

    How about Miami and Colorado? They started their rebuilds just last year!

  • Hodges14

    The Yankees found 3 free agent impact bats this winter. I don’t think it’s as hard as you make it out to be.

  • goorru

    Most of the decisions were bad because the options that TC had to go to were awful. Is it Collins’ fault that he doesn’t have a viable lefty in the bullpen to face Howard and Utley? Is it Collins’ fault for having a bullpen that’s as old as dirt? Is it Collins’ fault for not having a real SS? Do I need to go on?

    We all don’t want to think that uggh did we just get saddled with ANOTHER bad GM, but it should have told you something when the Padres were so willing to part ways with him.

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    SA might actually be more comfortable with Bob Geren at the helm. Nothing I can find seems to support that TC was SA’s choice. If I remember correctly, DePo was in TC’s corner, so there would have been a Dodger connection…

  • HillsideAve

    So right. Trolling Met fans makes shooting ducks in a barrel seem like a low percentage exercise.

  • goorru

    I can’t believe how many of the fans, especially the older ones have grown so accepting of losing. They’re being sold a bill of goods on a future that may never come to fruition.

  • Hodges14

    Alderson’s greatest accomplishment since he got here has been the spin campaign to convince people that it’s good to lose.

  • Mikey

    I hate to break it to you but the guys who seem to defend Sandy and this team the most are mostly Young kids who think Sabermetrics is some kind of secret special sauce!

  • jason bay

    I agree about some of the Dykstra types tearing it up in AA/AAA. That skews the results somewhat favourably but looking at it simply from a 25 and under depth chart:

    C – TDA, Centeno, Plaweicki, Carrillo,
    1B – Flores, Boyd, Smith
    2B – Herrera, McNeil
    SS – Tovar, Reynolds, Evans, Cecchini, Rosario
    3B – Flores

    OF – Lagares, Puello, Nimmo, Biondi, King, Stuart, Wilson,

    There is a lot of talent there and while some will bust, others will make it, become trade bait or acceptable AAA stash or play bench roles. We are not there yet, we need to continue to add to it obviously AND THEN make some informed choices on trades and a perfect fit FA or two to round it out but it is getting there, no question.

    No point in short circuiting the process now for a Wild Card lottery ticket when we are merely a .500 team as currently constructed.

  • billpulsipher

    they both are horrible. Sandy has been a miserable failure as a GM and its nice to see the media FINALLY picking up on it. The man is clueless and gutless. He is scared to death to bring up the young pitchers, he is obsessed with super 2 and he has made one awful move after another. Plus he stands there on the sidelines all offseason and refuses to address SS, 1st base and bullpen and 1 month into the season they are bleeding to death at those positions. as for TC, hes a dinosaur from yesteryear in an era where young managers and former players are getting gigs. this guy wouldnt know what to do with a winning roster if his life depended on it. they deserve eachother

  • Mikey

    Actually I think his greatest accomplishment is in Brainwashing the fans into thinking the way to solve our problems was to not spend and spend less!

  • billpulsipher

    if fred wants to be the Dodgers so much, wouldnt he up the payroll to 230 million like them? Fred does business they EXACT OPPOSITE the way the Dodgers do business lol

  • Nolrog

    Criticism for the state of the Mets belongs to Alderson, true. He built the team. But that doesn’t make Collins a good manager.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    He has an impact, but I think it’s minimal. I don’t buy into the “putting guys in a position to fail” argument people keep using.

    These are baseball players. They’re put into positions and asked to succeed. It’s not about babying them.

  • Hodges14

    Maybe, just maybe those young pitchers he is obsessed with are not as good as they have been hyped to be. That might explain his reluctance (along with his obsession on Super2 and saving a dime 6 years from now) on why we haven’t seen any of them yet.

  • billpulsipher

    and if they arent as good as advertised, thats another knock on him….

  • Dave Rosenbluth

    Given that the organization did not even spend the same amount that came off the books, let alone more, I don’t see how anyone can NOT look at ownership and lay most of the blame at their feet. Every GM makes moves that don’t work and in Sandy’s case it is his bullpen choices that have almost all failed. But if you don’t have the cash to spend, then it narrows the field

  • derek murphy

    This article is partially right but does not take away the fact TC is a mess. My biggest problem with SA is his wait and see approach. While his free agent acquisitions have left a lot to be desired he has put this team in an excellent position. Rubins opinions are short cited.

    Many times I’ve said judging a GM after 3 or 4 years is hard. The amount of time it takes draft picks to make the majors and hit peak performance is usually like 7 or 8 years. Players are drafted at 18 for the most part and IFA’s even younger. The mets minor league system is better now than ever. The FO has put itself in a position to deal from strength which is SP. SP is a very valuable commodity and the mets can now use the excess to fill holes.

    Taking a blank roster card and filling it out also using minor leaguers shows you how close the mets are. Not only are they on the verge of being a contender but it will be with a completly young roster. Which means there going to be really good for a really long time. The marquee players that will be added will be added via trade instead of free agency. I’m much more comfortable with SA making a trade than bringing in a free agent. The picks that have been destroyed by fans are looking pretty good. Nimmo and Cecchini were bashed and both look to be good picks. They have also made BA’s hot list. Add to them Smith, Herrera, Rosario, uhera, Reynolds, Plawicki, TDA and you have some awesome position prospects. They also have the best right handed pitching prospects and some awesome bullpen flame throwers. The future has never been brighter.

    This is a win now industry so I get the uproar even though I’m not part of it. My biggest problem is asset management. They knew mejia was gona have his innings capped so they should have started him in the pen. This I was saying in spring training. Then when an arm was ready like DeGrom, dice k who would have been starting in his place could have been traded. Then when Syndergaard was ready a better pitcher could have been traded for a big asset like a blue chip outfielder. Right now if the mets had DeGrom and Syndergaard in the rotation and black, Thornton & Montero in the pen I’m sure people would be a lot more positive. They would also have a prospect. They should also consider trading Duda and calling up Dykstra. They are very similar hitters and Duda has shown for 5 years he’s nothing special.

  • john q

    Hey so far so good with Tanaka but that was a massive contract, 7yr-$155 million with a $20 million dollar posting to his Japanese team plus he has a full no trade clause. Is Sandy just supposed to write a personal check for $175 million dollars?? And the Mets don’t even need starting pitching.

    And Ellsubury’s contract was insane. 7yrs-$153 million with a full no trade clause for a 30 year old player with an injury history and who has only played 140+ game in a season 3 times in his career.

    McCann was another idiotic contract: 5yrs $85 million full no trade for a 30 year old catcher? Plus there’s a 6th $15 million dollar 6th year automatic option if he reaches certain plate appearance requirements.

    Look at the CC & A-Rod contracts now not to mention the Teix contract.

  • goorru

    The money that Sandy and Jeff tell us they have to spend, if it’s all a lie then that’s equally on Sandy.

  • jason bay

    It’s really shocking how little effort Rubin puts into his analysis pieces. He hustles, has good contacts or both for breaking news but as for opinion he is lost in space.

    Yeah the team has numerous glaring weaknesses where other teams have players they signed or drafted in 2002-2010 getting the job done ergo blame the guy who arrived in 2011.

    It is so simple to figure out how and when teams acquired productive relievers, first basemen, SS’s, LFer’s, RFer’s, ect and so forth and yet Rubin is stuck in the steroid era.

  • Alberto Salebe

    Yes, but a right decision has a better chance of been the best decision.

  • Captain America

    I don’t say a guy should be our CF for the next 10 years, or a rookie 1B is a superstar after a few solid weeks.

    Let’s let them play, hopefully stay healthy and let the numbers tell the story.

    Many were horrified when Reyes left. Now a few years and a few last place finishes into that contract which rapidly increased, do you believe Jose is the player he once was?

  • elsid1986

    Thats right. The team has no short stop. Not Sandys fault. Team has no bull pen. Not Sandys fault. Team has crap at first base. Not Sandys fauld. Sandy does no wrong in the eyes of his worshippers. Heput together a team that can’t beat the Trenton Thunder, but the fact that they lose is the managers fault.
    It really is quite entertaining how the Sandy lovers find excuses for his failures. Pagan had to be traded, so Sandy got garbage for him.

  • ray sadecki

    If Alderson really was handed “moneyball with money” would he have signed strikeout machines like young and granderson? The whole philosophy he has tried to instill since he has been here is to have high obp ballplayers. When Choo’s prices went over the 100 million mark, Joe D put up an article saying forget about Choo. and he was right. Now Choo has an OPS over 1,000 for texas while the Mets are still looking for a quality leadoff hitter. The fish rots from the head first.

  • jdon48

    I expected more this year than last, until I found out they were still payroll restricted. The Wilpons pulled the rug out from under Sandy, who predicted higher spending at the end of last season. I still blame the Wilpons, Joe. The Wilpons gnaw at me. But yes, some of these decisions make you raise your eyebrows. I am sick of broken down vet relievers. I have always favored starter stuff in the bullpen. Why give the hitters a chance to catch their breath.

  • CJM

    Where is the money Alderson allegedly has? Or maybe they actually don’t have money, and that’s why a $100 million player was unattainable.

  • NewYorkMammoths

    True New Yorkers like their team to win 74 games.

  • elsid1986

    2020 or Bust. The revised Sandy plan.

  • RyanF55

    Quite simply, all are to blame. If you want to divvy up percentages of said blame, so be it. But it’s a top-down disaster. We have some of the worst owners in all of sports. We very well may have THE worst. They don’t have a clue about running a successful baseball franchise, and now, they don’t have the wealth to gloss over their ineptitude by signing big time FA’s. It used to be they didn’t know what they were doing with a lot of money….now it’s they don’t know what they’re doing with no money.

    Sandy is fielding the roster given to Terry. A roster short of a legitimiate: SS, C, 1B, LF and, for the 4th year in a row, a horrible bullpen. One can argue that DeGrom/Montero/Black will surplant Dice-K, Valverde and Farnsworth. Still, the bullpen right now is laughable, and the roster is one that just flat out cannot hit…organizational philosophy or not.

    Terry isn’t innocent either. He’s made countless blunders managing his bullpen, in pinch hitting situations and in creating haphazard lineups. But so much of that is due to a void of talent…he gets “creative” in lieu of having a good team, and it often backfires.

    The reality is they are all are to blame. It starts with the owners and trickles down. Terry, while certainly not the best manager, is the complete scapegoat for this franchise. He’s been handed crap teams since he’s been here. IF the young kids come up and pan out, then MAYBE he’ll have a respectable team come Summer. At the end of the day, we don’t have the horses.

  • prosoundz

    Sandy Alderson doesn’t know what to do with the money allocated to him. THAT IS THE PROBLEM! He literally wasted money on Frank Francisco, DJ Carrasco, Jon Rauch at a time when the Wilpons were on the verge of picking cans to deposit for money. Then when he finally does get SOME money to spend he wastes it yet again on the likes of Chris Young, Granderson and Colon. If the objective was to get younger and talented, relying on scouts was imperative to the growth of this team. See Cespedes Puig Abreu.

  • oleosmirf

    So far, I think it’s quite impossible to defend Sandy Alderson right now. His moves thus far, have pretty much all backfired.

    He’s obviously done a great job overhauling the farm system, but he has pretty much struck out on all of his “big signings.”

  • prosoundz

    Beltran, Reyes was replaced by Granderson, CY?

  • elsid1986

    Come on. According to the Sandy lovers its the managers fault.

  • prosoundz

    Sandy is an idiot. For allocating the limited resources to CY and Granderson coming off injury plagued seasons, batting.200 and striking out 200 times. What did he expect to happen? Especially at Citfield. He probably was better going with Puello, Brown, EYJ, Lagares mix or signing a guy with REAL power in Cruz.

  • prosoundz

    Then you HOLD the money til you can afford a 100 million player. You don’t waste it just to put players on the field. OR you get creative and trade for a guy who is mid contract for a team who needs something you have.

  • Sylow59

    Which also leaves less salary dumps as they are tied up cheaper or completely not worth it.

  • prosoundz

    Yes Jose is certainly the player he once was AND we are STILL trying to replace him.

  • NewYorkMammoths

    Rubin is so upset with the direction of the Mets, he’s asked them to return his resume.

  • WillisReid

    IF this works, I’d imagine it goes similarly to how it went in Philly. Old outdated GM, steps aside to hand the reins over to the young apprentice to take it the rest of the way. Luckily for the Phillies, the Mets crash and burn helped pave the way for them to have success earlier than predicted, and unluckily for them Amaro turned out to be garbage at his job.

  • El_Verdadero_Presidente

    Perfectly said. We have a self-reinforcing trifecta of misery in Terry, Sandy, and the Wilpons. Singling out any one implicates the others.

    It’s actually ingenious, in a dark way, how they’ve constructed this thing. We don’t have three firm supports, but a triple anchor that ensures we stay underwater.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Off topic but I’m curious. Lots of people talking about TDA being “set up for failure” by hitting in front of Tejada, but who is supposed to hit in front of Tejada? Somebody has to and no one seems to have an answer, only that it shouldn’t be TDA.

  • jimmy705

    This fan in his fifties is not accepting!

  • WillisReid

    FA is turning into an all or nothing proposition. You either pay for the top tier players or you take your chances with the scratch and dent sale guys that are more reasonably priced, but more likely to bust.

  • goorru

    Reyes is no doubt the same player, is Wright who is owed a crap ton more than Reyes?

  • DrDooby

    Not exactly as a Beltran in his prime (at least Choo or Ellsbury among last winter´s free agent values) and Reyes would have cost about 40 million $ annually combined for at least the next 4 years while Granderson & C.Young are making a combined 20 million $ in 2014 and then Granderson is getting about 16 million the following 3 years.

    Basically Granderson has replaced Delgado, Beltran and Reyes himself in the financial structure. Good luck, Grandy !

  • billpulsipher

    Sandy F ups
    1. hiring TC
    2. hiring Hudgens
    3. installing this awful hitting philosophy
    4. Angel Pagan for Andres Torres LOL
    5. sean marcum
    6. frank francisco
    7. bartolo colon
    8. chris young
    9. not trading reyes at the deadline
    10. not re-signing Reyes
    11. standing around like an idiot all offseason and not getting a new SS and somehow putting Tejada as the opening day SS this year
    12. Lucas EFFING DUDA and sandys obsession with him
    13. not getting Jose Abreu
    14. not getting a 1st baseman all offseason and showing up with the useless trio of satin, duda and ike
    15. WORST BULLPEN IN THE SPORT FOR 4 YEARS
    16. not getting a replacement/insurance policy for parnell even tho he was coming off MAJOR SURGERY
    17. being SCARED to call up young pitchers from AAA
    18. not signing Puig
    the list goes on

  • prosoundz

    All Sandy had to do was send some awesome scouts to scout Puig and Abreu and sign them INSTEAD of CY, Granderson, Colon.

  • metsaholic

    My proposed lineup.

    EY/Lagares
    TDA
    Murphy
    Wright
    Duda
    Flores
    Granderson
    CY

  • Hotstreak

    DW got a 2nd generation contract, so there goes that theory. 🙂

    The irony is when the Picard lawsuit was going full false IMO he should have stripped the team. Not a firesale perse but something like Boston did last year.

  • sisk is a risk

    The Mets are only 4 games out. It is not unprecedented to fire a manager this early in the season. If the Yankees wind up sweeping (which they could) this is going to look real bad.

    I want TC out of here! Honestly, he is no better than Jerry Manuel. Definitely not better than Randolph. In another month the Mets could be irrelevant. Do something now!! Fire Collins, give me Wally Backman. And bring up some pitching help to do something with the bullpen.

  • metsman

    Why would anyone pay 7.25 million dollars for him with so many holes and so little money? I’m glad your pleased with the move.

  • WillisReid

    You didn’t have to have “awesome” scouts, you needed money and the willingness to take a moderate risk.

  • DrDooby

    The big signings I can count are Granderson & Colon. And maybe extending Wright & Niese among holdovers. Kind of premature to label those 4 as “strike outs” six weeks into the 2014 season or in general for Wright & Niese who have easily been worth their money so far.

    Or are you also counting 3rd and 4th tier free agents on 1-year deals that would be considered afterthoughts & “flyers” for most teams ?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    So then you want Chris Young “set up to fail.” Ok.

  • prosoundz

    Puig 7 year 42 mil deal. 6 mil a year. Lol

    Abreu 6 years 78 mil.

    Broken down:

    2014: $7 million

    2015: $7 million

    2016: $10 million

    2017: $10.5 million

    2018: $11.5 million

    2019: $12 million

  • billpulsipher

    a better answer is why Tejada is in the lineup at all

  • billpulsipher

    Puig is a 20 million a year player. thats the biggest bargain of all time

  • WillisReid

    I think the idea is that CY is an established big league player to some extent. TdA situation is deveopmental.

  • Connor O’Brien

    With the New York media as tough as it is, I’m surprised it took this long to get this kind of criticism uut of this. Nonetheless, I agree with you Joe.

  • Bobby O

    I think both Sandy and Terry are part of the problem rather than the solution. I concur with another line in Rubin’s story- ” Yet the frustration (fans) also is a result of an I’m smarter than you smugness that fans perceive is coming from the front office and which seems so out of place given its actual accomplishments beyond auctioning off Beltran & Dickey.” To be fair here, I think you have to credit the Mets FO with The Byrd Man, Hawk, Carlos, EYJR, Recker & Rice. Sandy & Paul = 2 ” smart ass” egotistical MLB executives that just aren’t flexible enough in their thinking.

  • billpulsipher

    lets see if sandy does Francesa’s show this week for the subway series or if he will punk out of it as per usual

  • prosoundz

    You mean the Mets couldn’t put together 6 mil a year for Puig? Yet handed Francisco 6 mil a year? You mean they didn’t have the 78 mil for Abreu but 80 mil for Colon, Granderson, CY? It was definetly NOT about the money but HOW the money was spent. Very short sided.

  • metsman

    Boy the dud’Arnaud denial is in full swing. You are not the first person to suggest that it’s the spot in the batting order that is responsible for his suckitude. The inability to block pitches or throw runners out, that must be Ruben Tejada’s fault too.

  • metsaholic

    Yankees sweep. TC should be fired. But to be fair, both Alderson and TC should be fired. The CY, Granderson and Colon signings are a big waste of money. The Mets had plenty of options in place of Colon and Byrd could not have been worst than CY and clearly is better. You just don’t spend 60 million dollars on a player coming of injured seasons, who really should be hitting in a small ballpark with a bullpen that is still a horror story.

  • billpulsipher

    even those moves that “worked out” like Byrd, Torres, Hawk etc are more bargain basement signings that happened to work. when does this team stop shopping in the bargain basement bin and start signing elite players…you know, like a real New york team

  • elsid1986

    Terry is not a storng tactician that is true. But you Alderson lovers make me laugh. So its Terry’s fault this team has no short stop? its Terry’s fault that we have crap like Farnswortht and Valverde in the bullpen? Its Terry’s fault that they can’t hit? Got it.

  • prosoundz

    Something Sandy was brought here to find. What’s the phrase called? Oh yea was it “Money Ball”? My ass.

  • DrDooby

    Yes, the Yankees got 3 of the top 5 free agent bats on the market this winter at a combined price tag of roughly 280 million $ for the next 3 to 7 years (not counting Tanaka here). Looking at the early results, they can´t be too happy about their haul either:

    Beltran: .240 BA, .732 OPS
    McCann: .214 BA, .594 OPS (it does take some time for a C to adjust to a new league, doesn´t it ?)
    Ellsbury: .308 BA, .814 OPS

    So, basically these three have matched the production of Murphy, Granderson and Wright so far this year…
    And at 19-17, the 200+ million $ Yankees are exactly two games up on the 85 million $ Mets entering the “Subway Series”…

  • elsid1986

    What? You mean they need postion players? I guess Sandy didnt remember that part. LOL

  • prosoundz

    How about we TAKE OUT CY and put EYJ to lead off and Lagares to bat 2nd. Murph to bat 5th because he hits with runners on.

  • WillisReid

    Willingness to take a moderate risk and money. Even the Dodgers acknowledged that it took a lot of arm twisting fo get the FO to fork over the money to sign him off of one live batting practice session.

  • jimmy705

    I disagree with your take saying THEN you add!! Especially when it comes to position players, whose futures are more predictable.

    In 1981 the Mets were terrible, but already had Mookie and Hubie.

    In 1982 the Mets were terrible but added George Foster. This didn’t work in the long-term, but they were already trying to set a foundation.

    In 1983 the Mets were terrible but they added (and then kept!) Keith Hernandez, along with bringing up Daryl.

    In 1984 the Mets “suddenly” turned it around…but they had a team with Mookie, Hubie, Hernandez, Foster (who hit 24 HRs that year) and Daryl in the lineup. Then they were able to trade a package of lesser talent for Gary Carter, and voila! Excellent offensive team.

    Do you believe that Granderson represents the same philosophy, or that he can do it alone? The whole point of rebuilding on a ML level is to make long-term moves every year.

    Not depend almost entirely on the minors and retreads.

  • metsman

    This makes me laugh. People are clinging to anything as time reveals that he not only doesn’t walk on water but can’t really even swim. I guess Tejada keeps him from throwing out runners and blocking pitches too? But that framing, it’s a thing of beauty!!!!

  • DrDooby

    Wright´s value was higher after the 2012 season than after the 2011 or 2010 seasons, so the winter of 2012 would have been the best year to move him. Likewise, while trading Reyes prior to the 2011 season, coming off down years in 2010 and 2009 would still have brought more than Plawecki and Reynolds pick, it wouldn´t have brought more than Beltran in the middle of a very strong walking year.

  • elsid1986

    Too bad he forgot to get some bats.

  • prosoundz

    I’m sure it wasn’t one live batting practice session and they had more to work on. But it makes for a great story. Lol

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    Its really simple, we don’t need to point fingers at one person over another. Like they say $hit rolls down hill. Starting with the willpons, then sandy then TC. They all are to blame. The willpons cant fund good players, sandy is choosing the wrong players, and TC it messing up everything else from there. We have the Tri-fecta of a dysfunctional team.

  • metsaholic

    You can argue that the worst hitters should hit lower in the order. Or you can say they are veterans who can figure it out better than a rookie. Or you can say that they have power at the end of the lineup. Or you can say, they are not the future so why are we giving them special treatment. CY is disposable and replaceable and that TDA is much less replaceable and more important to the future. If CY fails, so be it.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    But since he’s going to play sometime, let’s talk baseball.

  • WillisReid

    Only going off of the interview from the scout who went to watch him and then had to ask for the money. Lol

  • prosoundz

    The fact that they have to construct a lineup based on players sucki ng is sad.

  • DrDooby

    Which better change quickly, except of course for Curtis Granderson who has an .875 OPS for May by the way through 36 AB…

    That´s the main criticism at SA besides failing to get any sort of SS. Not acting fast enough on the pen when there are plenty of options for it in Vegas right now.

  • metsman

    I hate Franny until he puts the heat on Mets brass then he’s the closest thing to having one of us hold their feet to the fire.

  • metsaholic

    EY really strikes out to much. Actually, it may be a radical idea, but I would send him down to minors and have him work on bunting and slap hitting to get on base. The guy would be up there in Reyes contract area if he would just stop striking out and get on base at a 330 clip. I don’t get these guys leaving millions on the table with that speed.

  • Hodges14

    Not pleased with the move at all. I said all winter it was a ridiculous signing. Just not sure why anyone would be disappointed with Young’s performance so far. It’s basically been better than should have been expected.

  • metsaholic

    It may be sad, but we have to deal with the cards they have to get max production. I think my lineup makes sense.

  • prosoundz

    14. Jon Rauch
    15 DJ Carraco
    16. When he first took over the idea that this was a playoff team with no bullpen starters an injured Beltran and no farm system. Hence the Carrasco, Frank Francisco, Jon Rauch signings.
    17. Implementing the money ball philosophy yet NOT signing Puig OR Cespedes.

  • metsman

    But what was Sandy expecting is the real question with a 7.25 mil answer.

  • WillisReid

    “The hardest part about justifying the signing was the fact that there was such little data on Puig prior to their visit to Mexico City. White recalls talking to president Stan Kasten about signing Puig and how he had a conversation at 2 am about the contract details:”

    “Kinda crazy. New ownership and everybody, they were very aggressive. They wanted us to get out there and get somebody and I wanted to get them the right guy. We had three days of bouncing things off each other and at 2 am I decided it was 7 years and $42 million and I was asked if I was asked if I was out of my mind”

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Talk to the Wilpons.

  • Hodges14

    When he left here, Reyes was certainly worth more than a draft pick. That’s what people are upset about.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Joe D.,
    Not even Casey Stengel or Gil Hodges could do much better with the talent given Terry, I think we all recognize that.
    However, if Terry Collins is not qualified to be a manager regardless of the lack of talent he has been provided, the bigger picture is still not Terry himself. We must hold the one responsible for the decision to hire and retain Terry in the same light as we do the decisions to acquire, not acquire and not retain the players we have seen the past four off seasons as well (whether that be Sandy’s call, or his acting upon the recommendations of his baseball people or a group effort)
    And the case of Terry is unique for one cannot say the decision was hampered by the same fiscal restraint that is related to the roster. Yes, there might not have been enough money to pay the most highly regarded managers at that time (i.e., to both lure a Tony LaRussa and pay St. Louis for the right to buy off his contract) but as we know, there are plenty of other-type candidates who would grab at the opportunity.

  • Matlack

    Thanks, Jimmy. Glad to see another fan remember an elite Mets pitcher.

  • john q

    Yeah, the Foster trade was really just a quasi free agent deal. Foster was 33 and was on his walk year and the Reds weren’t going to resign him. In retrospect Cashen gave up way too much for a guy on his walk year. Greg Harris ended up being an underrated and good relief pitcher for the Rangers and Red Sox. This was also back in the day when relief pitchers threw 100+ innings a year. Trevino ended up up being a solid back up catcher for 10 years.

    Cashen’s trade ledger was mostly very good even great. He made some of the best trades in Mets’ history and some bad trades. Oddly some of the best & worst trades involved the same player.

    Best (most lopsided in Mets favor):

    D. Cone for Hearn, Gozzo and Anderson
    El Sid for Bob Bailor
    K. Hernandez for N. Allen & R. Ownby
    R. Darling & W. Terrell for L. Mazzilli
    H. Johnson for W. Terrell
    K. Tapani & W. Whitehurst for J. Orosco
    T. Seaver for L. McClendon and C. Puleo
    T. Teufel for J. Klink & B. Beanne
    C. Washington for J. Anderson
    B. Ojeda for C. Schiralidi and J. Mitchell
    T. Castillio for A. Pena

    They basically gave away Seaver, Washington, and Castillo for nothing which kind of negated those good moves. And he later made bad trades involving Tapani and Ojeda.

    Worst (most lopsided against the Mets):

    K. Tapani, R. Aguilera, D. West, T. Drummond & J. Savage for F. Viola
    L. Dykstra, R. McDowell, T. Edens, for J. Samuel
    M. Scott for D. Heep
    G. Harris, A. Trevino & J. Kern for G. Foster
    J. Reardon, D. Norman for E. Valentine
    J. Oquendo for A. Salazar
    A. Lee, G. Young for R. Knight
    J. Berengeur for M. Wynne
    T. Leary for F. Willis
    R. Milligan for M. Sasser
    K. Mitchell, S. Abner, S. Jefferson for K. McReynolds, G. Walters
    B. Ojeda for H. Brooks.

    I think the big problem with Cashen was that his trades were pretty terrible at the end of his tenure (1988-1991)

    That Viola trade was really terrible and it’s rarely talked about. I think people forget how good Tapani and Aguilera were. And they were a big part of the 1991 Twins WS. And the Mets made it worse by not re-signing Viola in 1992 and instead put that money into Bonilla & E. Murray. The Mets really should have spent the Bonilla & Murray money on re-signing Viola & Cone and some decent fielding outfielders. They would have had a starting staff of Gooden, Saberhagen, Cone, Viola, El Sid for 1992-1995.

  • goorru

    Right now his OBP is .325.

  • Hodges14

    Fact is, if you want free agent bats, they are available.

  • WillisReid

    “Right now.”

  • DrewC

    It’s not like TDA hasn’t gotten pitches to hit. He has been taking fastballs right down the middle all season.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Billpulsipher,
    ….. but other than the things you mention plus the list that goes on, can you actually think of any other F-ups this GM has done? LOL

  • metsaholic

    Okay, I’ll revise my earlier number. 370 clip, given that he’s mostly a singles hitter, without Reyes extra base power. The point is he just doesn’t get on base enough to use his speed. If he did he’d be in the lineup every day, CY contract or not.

  • BarnRat

    Exactly. But we also doubled-down with Fred AND Jeff, so the turd rolling downhill had a lot of momentum before it ever reached the FO or Terry

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    For a team trying to win ball games, you can’t really take the “if he fails, so be it” approach. That’s for fans.

  • Hotstreak

    What did Paegan for Torres do? Losing Reyes for less than fmv and getting Wheeler is NOT a wash. We could have had Mike Minor if we gave up Parnell with Beltran. I never never liked Parnell.

  • Hodges14

    Granderson and especially Colon would be fine signings for a team that is trying to win. In the Mets case they make no sense at all. The Mets are supposedly rebuilding but 1/2 the roster is 30 or older and 2 are over 40. There’s no plan. It’s just a mess.

  • prosoundz

    Leave Flores, Wright, Murphy, Lagares and get rid of everyone else except maybe EYJ, d’Arnaud (who is holding on by a string).

    Granderson, CY are sunk costs. Colon might get value.

  • metsaholic

    I certainly can take that approach if it means getting a more important and younger player to reach his potential. I never wanted CY signed in the first place. He’s here, so of course I would like him to succeed, but if he fails, so be it…move on. He is very replaceable.

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    id just like to add – that he also hired 3 other GM’s to help him. ugh

  • Jakal42400

    One clear cut mistake…rehiring Collins. You don’t reward failure, it sends a bad message, team, fans, media. Every GM is allowed two managers. Sandy wasted his on the rehiring of Collins.

  • Hotstreak

    Actually I commend SA for NOT signing Stephen Draw. But one “ah sh*t” wipes out one thousand “that a boys”. It was that way with Omar too.

  • Hodges14

    The Marlins are ahead of the Mets.

  • HamPorter

    it’s true, sandy seems to get a pass from most of the media and press, it almost seems like they are somewhat intimidated by his slow, deliberate lawyer speak and maybe out of respect for his background and resume. but come on. this guy has had more misses than hits. i’ll give him wheeler but until d’arnaud starts to prove he belongs in the majors and noah actually has success in the majors as well, I’m going to hold off praising the guy. the first base issue was (probably is still) a disaster, shortstop wasn’t handled well. he signed 2 outfielders in c.young and granderson when maybe, just maybe e. young, lagares plus possibly bringing byrd back at a reasonable deal would have worked out better for now and the long run. that certainly could have freed up salary to keep latroy in our bullpen. has anyone been checking out the minor leagues? nick franklin is tearing it up. okay, don’t know what he would have cost and if he is even a true shortstop in the bigs but from what has been written and said, he’s probably better than anything we have to plug into shortstop. I wouldn’t have minded seeing, from 3rd to 1st, wright, franklin, murphy, and duda/wilmer and Campbell as a super utility guy. what is alderson’s deal with pulling the trigger on a trade? sometimes you have to assume you may have to give up a little more to fill a need, but at least you’re filling a need! not standing idly by watching the first few months of the season pass, waiting for the super 2 to pass before promoting some of the younger guys who may actually make the bullpen stronger. Sandy uses the first few months of the season like it’s extended spring training. it seems sandy’s philosophy is, ‘maybe we can tread water for the first few months using these retreads in the pen and if we can hopefully do that, then we can bring up the young studs and still save a year in arbitration.’ problem being, by the time he decides to make those moves, historically the mets are too far behind the pack for it to make a difference.
    this team has to stop allowing mediocrity. what we saw this pass weekend should be the way to go all the time, (satin sent down, omar dfa’d, Campbell and flores called up) that is, if you don’t produce, if you can’t find your swing or throw strikes, go find it in the minors.
    in my opinion, if d’arnaud keeps struggling here, time to spend some time in las vegas to get straightened out, not here in the majors. set up a platoon of recker and centeno for the short term until travis regains confidence and hopefully get locked in.
    I don’t know, maybe it’s me…. just sayiing

  • Hodges14

    EYJ? Really?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Again, the Mets, the baseball team that invested millions in CY, rightfully so or not, cannot take the “he’s replaceable so who cares?” approach. That’s not a reason for putting him eighth.

  • Bobby O

    To be fair here, I think Sandy and his cohorts are pretty good with ” MoneyBall” or pickups off the scrapheap. The bigger problem here is as prosoundz said below you. One also has to seriously question Sandy’s decision to view the Mets 1B situation internally with Davis, Duda and Satin instead of aggressively pursuing Jose Abreu. Sandy also viewed The Byrd Man as more of a surprise last season comparing him to Scott Hairston somewhat at least in an interview I heard on the radio. Byrd is in no way , shape or form a Hairston. Both Byrd and Hawk are in very good shape for their age and Marlon is a good hitter with HR power. In my mind, in terms of reward/ risk Abreu& Byrd and the dollars involved in the contracts> The Grandy Man and CY. How much better would the Mets be right now with Abreu at 1B and Byrd back in the OF along with some share of EYJR and Kirk in the other OF spot?

  • Andrew Herbst

    I agree that Sandy has definitely gotten a pass from the media. TC is not a good manager, but Sandy didn’t sign a ss, 1b, or put together a pen this offseason.

  • mattbalasis

    The only way to truly rebuild without pissing away “the greater part of a decade” (not sure where this comes from — it’s only been 3 + years) is if you can throw LOTS of money at your problems — clearly we haven’t had that luxury.

  • metsaholic

    That was not my reason, it was my conclusion should he not succeed in the 8th spot. I think my reasons for putting him there were stated clearly. So once again, you show your continued lack of reading comprehension. Again, the Mets, the baseball team investing millions of dollars in a baseball team, can’t let the fact of sunk cost in one contract get in the way of winning now and the future.

  • john q

    J. Bay,

    Yeah, it’s really the whole changing environment of sports media in general. The concept of a “beat writer” is really kind of obsolete concept.

    You needed them back in the days when only 1/2 of the games were televised. There was no ESPN or WFAN all sports 24 hour networks let alone a team run SNY. There was no internet with hundreds of baseball blogs and websites plus dozens of websites just dedicated to a single team.

    I found an old yearbook I had from the 70’s and I was kind of shocked at the amount of beat writers who followed the team. Back in those days you had the NYC papers and then the NJ & Conn papers. Then you had the Long Island & upstate papers.

    Yeah and he doesn’t really point out what should have been done. All he does is extrapolate on nonsense hypotheticals.

    In my ledger Sandy has made one mildly bad trade (Pagan) and that was mostly made because Pagan and TC didn’t get along. The E. Young trade was pretty good. The remainder of Alderson’s work in incomplete IMO. I can’t give him a positive or negative mark yet.

  • Joey D.

    HI TGWLC,
    Not really off topic because Joe D. has felt that way.
    I disagree with Joe on that because pitchers are still coming after him. If they were pitching around him, we would see Travis swinging at a lot of bad pitches which would show signs of poor plate discipline. What we have seen is that he is not able to hit with consistent authority pitches that are indeed within the strike zone but intended to get him out.

  • Mikey

    Remember the Movie FX?
    The FX guy in that movie set up a machine to shoot Hot Dogs over a fence to distract the guard dogs while he carried out his plan elsewhere?

    Thats what the DW signing was all about…
    Sandy saw the blowback from letting Reyes go for virtually nothing and had plans to cut even more folks…

    So he signed Wright, while he went about dismantling the team everywhere else!

  • derek murphy

    1b dom smith/jayce Boyd/Dykstra
    2b Dan Murphy/dilson Herrera/LJ Mazzelli
    SS wilmer Flores/ Matt Reynolds/Wilfredo tovar/Gavin Cecchini/Ahmed Rosario/Luis Guillmore
    3b wright/Reynolds/Urena/Perez
    C TDA/Plawicki/Centeno
    OF Lageres/Puello/denDecker/Lawley/taijeron/Nimmo/king/Stewart/Wilson

    That’s just to name a few that jump out at me. Saying the mets don’t have positional prospects is just ignorant. Hopefully the ptbnl from pit is one of 2 OFs that I like that they drafted. It also helps that that they have an abundance of pitching. I’m hoping the use this as well as a couple of players on the roster to bring in at least 1 high upside mlb ready OF. A Myers like trAde would be my preference. The mets are not far off being perennial playoff contenders. They will have sp, bullpen and a very good starting line up and be one of the younger teams in baseball.

  • jimmy705

    Great comment. Yes, Cashen’s moves at the end went against what he’d always done…take other teams’ “disappointing” players off their hands. All of them, from Carter to Hernandez to Hojo to McReynolds (a very good player, in fact), were seen as underachieving by their teams, so the Mets said, “Fine, we’ll take them!”

    Viola was actually the same kind of trade as Carter’s, except that the Mets underestimated the talent of what they were giving up. These weren’t the Mike Fitzgeralds of the Carter trade; they were hard to replace.

    (Also, when people clamor to get rid of David Wright, they’re doing EXACTLY what Expos fans were doing with Gary Carter in 1984: Blaming him, their best player, for the team’s failings. Cashen got rich for years on trades like this, because you almost NEVER get equal value when you trade your star for a package of lesser talent. See: Tom Seaver as well.)

  • Just_Da_damaja
  • prosoundz

    EYJ makes sh it happen. When he is in the game we win. And it’s not inspite of him either. He scores runs, has speed and should be the only who abides by the Sandy philosphy not the whole dam n team.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    Cherington worked as a Mid-Atlantic area scout…

    scouts know talent…

    sandy…not so much…

  • LongTimeFan1

    Well then, they both should go. Alderson is failure and should fire himself.

  • Mikey

    That makes the assumption there IS a Right choice when in truth all that really exists is possibly a BETTER choice than the one made….
    But it’s not that much better than the one he made when you get right down to it!

    It’s like having a choice between Dog Doo Pie or Cat Dropping Tart….
    Whats the best choice for dessert?

    Answer: Skipping Dessert and running to Duncan Doughnuts on the way home!

  • LongTimeFan1

    Alderson isn’t a good GM. Wasn’t on the day he was hired, and isn’t today.

  • Monix

    Mets have the winningest minor league system by 7 games. Rebuilding takes time. So sick of fire everybody comments from impatient NYers.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    actually, i think Murph is a perfect #6 hitter…

    clutch as they come…

  • Mikey

    yet here they are in 2nd Place…
    Why? Because they are smarter than your hero about rebuilding a team and evaluating kids!

  • Just_Da_damaja

    if sandy goes on to be commish…jeff and fred might not be here too much longer….

  • Hotstreak

    Signing Grandy age factor plus after being injured and an off year plus leaving Yankee Stadium for Citi Field (except for Subway Series).

  • Just_Da_damaja

    yup…

    and adam rubin fessed up to it…

    but he said he was asking for “career advice” from jeff wilpon…

  • derek murphy

    What’s wrong with Nimmo? The problem seems to be your stuck in years ago. Back when the mets did not have position prospects and some fans thought Nimmo was a bust. Well it’s time to wake up. Before saying the mets have no position prospects educate yourself.

  • Captain America

    My heroes passed away. I don’t think you knew them.

  • Monix

    Funny how this article was written the morning after Rubin was snubbed of an interview with Alderson. This guy’s own agenda always takes priority. Horrible beat writer, as most of the NY writers are.
    What’s the matter Rubin, did Alderson snub you on a job too like Omar?

  • goorru

    Look at the low cost garbage (not Byrd) you’re hanging your hat on for Alderson.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Hitting in front of the pitcher is hardly the reason he’s been terrible. He gets beat all the time on fastball. Nothing to do with the pitcher. If Collins made that same statement, “Oh, I think he’s having a hard time hitting in front of the pitcher,” guys on here would flip their lids over “excuses.”

  • Hotstreak

    Three bad cops and Wright failing miserably as the good cop. One big cop out. Rubin and Francessa are doing their jobs. Murphy, Niese and Gee too.

  • derek murphy

    What you said makes no sense. The GM cared enough to rebuild the farm system. He could not spend money the team did not have. They cut payroll year after year. Where have you been?

  • goorru

    It doesn’t change the fact that he’s right.

  • goorru

    I wonder why the Padres were so willing to part with this genius.

  • Jeff Roland

    go look at that vegas roster and tell me how many are real propspects. there are only a few.

    wins in the minors dont really mean squat

  • Just_Da_damaja

    The two of you spend way too much time worrying about how fans should act almost as if you wrote the book on fandom.

    http://metsmerizedonline.com/2014/05/stop-trying-to-fix-the-mets.html/

    but u defend this ?

    right….

  • Matlack

    Hi goorru, we’re all feeling frustrated, but I don’t think we’ve accepted the losing. I respect the argument that some have made here, that a rebuild should take less time. But at the same time, IF(big IF I know) one believes that the direction of the organization(not just the big club) is turning around and it will give us a chance to be competitive over a long period of time, and not just a one-off playoff appearance, a little more patience is warranted, in my view.

    Incidentally, as older fans, we should all be keenly aware that this has historically been a losing franchise, with an average season of 77-85 over 50+ years. Wouldn’t it be great if, wonder of wonders, “THE PLAN” works and the Mets uncharacteristically have a sustained run of success?

    It seems to me that Alderson attracts more sharp criticism than many if not all of his predecessors in franchise history.

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    did u like the players we passed on? did u like what we got instead?

  • SCarton12

    There are more prospects in Vegas than most other AAA teams. Winning is an attitude and it starts in the minors.

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    im sure wally would take a low alary to start.

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    You would think fastballs down the middle would be the pitches a young hitter could zero in on, while it may take some time to adjust to the curve or other off-speed stuff. One would think there’s too much thinking involved in the Mets hitting philosophy and not enough see ball, hit ball. Not an expert by any means, but I wonder if too much thinking on the Mets part means opposing pitchers don’t have to think as much…

  • Monix

    Win in Triple A don’t mean a lot. The fact that the Mets low minors are doing great, is a very positive sign whether you want to admit it or not. If they were losing you’d be using that as a point against Alderson but since you don’t want to give them credit for anything then you want to ignore the fact that their minors is doing well.

  • Monix

    They have the winningest minor league record in all of baseball by 7 games and Rubin doesn’t even mention it in his article.
    That fact alone says you and him are actually the ones who are wrong.

  • Joey D.

    This is why I think the blame has to go to Sandy Alderson not because of the financial restrictions he has imposed on his baseball people (which may be a decision on his part more than having no other choice) but because of his interference in trying to re-invent the game based on statistical analysis.

    We all know his idea about working the count and “hunting” for one’s pitch. Many of you might remember Mike Epstein from the sixties. Mike played nine years in the majors which included a few very good seasons mixed in (with a lifetime .782 OPS for those who want to quantify tis) so he knows a few things about hitting. This is what he recently had to say on the subject in an article “How To Beat The Tough Pitcher”:

    “The first thing you must understand is that looking for that “perfect” pitch may be pretty elusive against these guys. When the pitcher’s “on,” throwing tough pitches right and left, and not “giving in” to the hitter in predictable count situations, I tell hitters not to look for the perfect pitch, but to open up their strike zones and simply put the ball in play. Too many times I see hitters taking hittable strikes early in the count (looking for that perfect pitch) and allowing the pitcher to quickly get two strikes on him.”

    Epstein goes on to define what a tough pitcher is, and that does not mean being a Kershaw (as in number two below):

    “Tough pitchers can be defined in three ways:

    “1.The “flame thrower” with control of his fast ball and curve. These pitchers dominate hitters and are a threat to pitch a no-hitter every time they toe the rubber.

    “2.The pitcher who is just a “top drawer” talent, able to consistently throw strikes to all four corners of the strike zone and also able to throw “against the count.” By this I mean when the hitter is ahead in the count 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 3-0, 3-1, the pitcher is able to upset the hitter’s timing by throwing off-speed pitches in these predictable fast ball counts.Or vice versa.

    “3.Any pitcher who is just “on his game” that day and making consistently good pitches. When you run up against pitchers like these, hitters have to make some concessions and adjustments.”

    This is why Sandy should stick to the business end and not impose his analytical understanding of “probabilities” in a game of skill. He is causing more damage beyond the type of players he wants his people to go after who fit in with his statistical approach.

    http://www.mikeepsteinhitting.com/TipsAndInfo/HittingArticles.aspx?udt_534_param_detail=297

  • Monix

    It’s comical how all the EY Jr. bashers on here don’t want to admit that they win when he plays and they lost 8 out of 9 when he suddenly stopped playing.

  • goorru

    Winning minor league games has very little to do with the actual major league talent potential that you have there.

  • billpulsipher

    hows the ML team doing by the way?

  • billpulsipher

    troll ^^^^^

  • billpulsipher

    I forgot to add TDA

  • Monix

    Really? How so?

  • Monix

    Organizational success starts at the bottom and progresses to the top. I’m sorry you don’t understand how building a successful franchise works. It’s not about blindly buying players and ignoring the farm system. Comical how so many people want to go back to making the same mistakes that got us here in the first place.

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    Thanks for sharing. Always great getting the player’s point of view, which seems to be sorely lacking in the Mets FO…

  • TPT

    go to mound and hand the ball over to Farnsworth or Valverde and your a horrible manager..go to the mound and hand the ball over to Kimbrell and your a brilliant manager… have CY bunt because hes 0- for the last 4 games and another of his strikeouts here is a killer and your brutality punished from every corner …PH Abreu for TDA because thats exactly why hes on the team..YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME and not to worry about a rookies emotional state but of course because this team is weak and fill of holes and the next batter doesn’t come through and TC is a bum and accused of ruining a rookies career by trying to get us a W … if only the guy had some players its kinda sad his big bat Grandy is batting 180 and seems to have more strikeouts than hits how do manage that?. and who signed him TC or SA ?and how would any manager succeed with that kind of production from your ‘SLUGGER”.? other teams HAVE GOOD PLAYERS that come through and make “bad” decisions into the “right” decisions ..but the man doesnt have the players its really that simple its more a SA failing at his job than a TC failing at his job

  • MattHarvey’sEgo

    Doesn’t really matter. What matters is how the talent Alderson has procured impacts the major league roster.

  • MetsMaastricht

    Alderson’s problem is he’s applying 15 year old approaches to the current game. Think about it like this. In the late 1990s early 2000s Alderson was in Oakland, and they began looking for the value player by examining certain metrics to apply objectivity to the then subjective job of scouting (this is what was originally coined “Moneyball”). They found a number of metrics that seemed to suggest future success even when subjective scouts disagreed. Flash forward 15 years. The majority (if not all) of teams have begun doing the same thing, and applying the same metrics. Because these teams are applying these same measures, it becomes harder and harder to find the value player using these metrics. If Alderson is continuing to use these old metrics, he’s not going to get value when trying to build a team on a shoe-string, he’s just going to get bad. Basically, Alderson appears to be applying 15 year old ideas, without updating his formula to include new metrics and new research.

  • Metfan9876

    I agree with most of your points but there’s no reason as to why Alderson would financially constrict himself willingly

  • billpulsipher

    this isnt san diego or pittsburgh. take your small market mentality and taking 10 years to build a team elsewhere. this is new york city. people want WINNING and star players, not this 10 year rebuilding CRAP…..what got us here is horrible cheap owners who dont spend money….

  • Sylow59

    Why do you insist on sharing how little you know?

    Every team uses a statistical basis. Every large company uses statistical analysis.

    And if you had a remote clue about the Central Limit Theorem you’d realize you’re anecdotal examples prove there are counterexamples (as predicted by the CLT) and actually do not come anywhere near disproving the argument. You are in fact helping those you are arguing with. So thank you.

  • billpulsipher

    exactly. he’s a dinosaur from yesteryear

  • billpulsipher

    answer every one of these sandy F UPS and i will take you seriously
    1. hiring TC
    2. hiring Hudgens
    3. installing this awful hitting philosophy
    4. Angel Pagan for Andres Torres LOL
    5. sean marcum
    6. frank francisco
    7. bartolo colon
    8. chris young
    9. not trading reyes at the deadline
    10. not re-signing Reyes
    11. not getting a new SS
    and somehow putting Tejada as the opening day SS this year
    12. Lucas EFFING DUDA and sandys obsession with him
    13. not getting Jose Abreu
    14. not getting a 1st baseman all offseason and showing up with the useless trio of satin, duda and ike
    15. WORST BULLPEN IN THE SPORT FOR 4 YEARS
    16. not getting a replacement/insurance policy for parnell even tho he was coming off MAJOR SURGERY
    17. being SCARED to call up young pitchers from AAA
    18. not signing Puig

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    Is it too early for you to have a drink?

  • Sylow59

    That is bad if true. Where are tge links supporting your premise?

  • goorru

    You can have 20 Josh Satins and win a game or would you rather lose and have a David Wright and Jose Reyes?

  • Sylow59

    It makes for a better complaint.

  • billpulsipher

    the red Sox have one awful year, the next year they are champions. the giants have one awful year, the next year they are 95 win caliber. the marlins gut their team and within 1 year have surpassed the mets…and here’s sandy 4 years into his regime and has not accomplished a damn thing…all you need to know….just like the boy wonder Theo with the cubs…sandy and theo, who act like they have some sort of great reputation for being geniuses have proven to be utter failures

  • Monix

    I already addressed all of those in a previous post the other day and you ignored my sound answers. Simply click on my handle and read the history.

  • Monix

    I’m sorry you don’t understand rebuilding. You’re the textbook version of a NY sports fan that doesn’t understand rebuilding. It’s all about instant gratification and teams that pander to that always have a high payroll and a losing team with a terrible minor league system, ala previous Mets regime, Knicks, Nets, etc.

  • Monix

    I hate to break it to you but Boston has the 2nd best minor league record in baseball right now. I think they know what they’re doing. It’s a young players league now. Times have changed. You have to build from within or your team will be no good.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Really?

    So the minor league talent means nothing.

    Tell that to the Braves with Freeman, Kimbrel, Simmons, Heyward, Medlen, and Teheren.

    Just because it all hasnt arrived yet doesnt change the fact that it wont impact the big league team.

  • Taskmaster4450

    What winning has NYC been doing?

    Name the titles in NYC over the last 10 years. The Yanks in 2009 and who?

    Seems StL and SF have more than that.

  • MetsfanInParadise

    Here’s an idea to chew on–the two aren’t mutually exclusive. Yes, Alderson has failed to provide adequate talent in certain areas, such as bullpen and SS, but COLLINS ALSO SUCKS! He’s horrible at constructing a lineup and his bullpen management is even worse They could be doing a lot better with the pieces they already have.

  • MetsMaastricht

    It is a conjecture that would need to be empirically validated. But the poor performance of the bullpen is circumstantial evidence suggesting that this could be true. The bullpen is one of the areas in which Oakland in the 1990s & early 2000s really applied sabermetrics. One would have to know what the original metrics used by Oakland during Alderson’s tenure there, and then examine whether he is applying the same metrics without usage of new metrics with the Mets over the last few years.

  • billpulsipher

    you dont rebuild in new york city. only a fool rebuilds in NYC. but if you wanna rebuild in the biggest market in the world, have fun in last place with your 7,000 fans in the seats being irrelevant by memorial day drinking the sandy kool aid

  • derek murphy

    Teams don’t do it quicker not when it’s a complete rebuild. The only way to do that is with large amounts of money or tradeable assets that bring prospect compensation.

    The only thing close was rizzo in Washington. He had the benifets of some solid Bowden picks. Lots of money and back to back number one overall picks. Now if SA had that you can make an arguement but he didn’t so you can’t.

    When minaya was here I supported him when Phillips was here I supported him and all down the line. Minaya was restricted in what he could and couldn’t due especially towards the end. Does anyone in there right mind think Omar would have traded Wagner if he did not have to. Who knows what he could have done with that pick. He could never take the best players in the early rounds because the secondary issue was signability. That’s a big reason the Red Sox stockpiled talent. They didn’t care they would pay whatever to sign. When Omar resigned Castillo and Perez is when I soured on him. Perez got a very high contract and Omar was bidding against himself.

    SA has made some decissions that I have not agreed with. The team now is in great shape. They have so many players that are going to be added to the roster in the next 2 to 3 years that this team can be mostly home grown. He has built a solid nucleas just like stick Michael did with the Yankees. Now the biggest thing is to add the right complimentary players. A clean up hitter that can play the outfield would be great. They could have and should have signed Abreu. However, there’s other moves to be made. Two years ago when people wanted everyone signed I said we had to wait and develop a core cause we had to many holes. We’re close to having a core now centered around pitching. These guys need to be promoted so we can see who is keepers.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Alderson is also responsible for Collins being in place. He named him manager and then extended him.

    Nobody else is responsible for Collins but Alderson.

  • Captain America

    So if a week or two from now the marlins were in last place you would say….

  • billpulsipher

    go compare the yankees won loss record from 1995 to now with the mets record….see who has a better philosophy on how to do business, small market vs big market…

  • billpulsipher

    with a 180 million dollar payroll…only 100 million more than sandys mets

  • TPT

    HOW MANY ‘BAD; moves or decisions by TC would not ever have to be made if SAs 60 million dollar slugger actually hit and drove in runs?

  • MetsMaastricht

    Also, I have to say, this is not a knock against statistics in baseball. I am a statistician for a living, so I love the idea. I just think Alderson (and his front staff) are dinosaurs in regard to their usage of stats. My guess is they are still using SPSS.

  • Monix

    The Yankees won in the 90s with a core of minor league talent, which they don’t have now. This isn’t rocket science. I’m sorry you don’t get it. If you love the Yankees new philosophy of outspending everyone, punching a playoff ticket appearance and then immediately losing, go root for them.

  • billpulsipher

    I would say Jose Fernandez. Giancarlo Stanton. Wilson Alvarez. Nathan Eovaldi,. Marcell Ozuna. Christian yelich..thats what i would say…while sandy lovers are peddling josh satin and eric campbell and wilmore flores

  • Hotstreak

    Metsie: Excellant Post. War on Payroll (Woman) (reckess FA signings) charging Omar supporters (GOP) and paying staff of woman less than men. Favorable Media to fool most of the people most of the time for this circus. Signing over 30 year old busts ( I said Jason Bay was a bust the first week he was a Met) and committing to DW (Eight More Years) at time of contract..

  • Taskmaster4450

    You serious Joey?

    Do you think that Stengel or Hodges would have lost 5 games by now (could have been 8 if the team didnt bail him out)?

    I can tell you Valentine, for as much of a horses rear that he is, would have this roster over .500 and getting the most out of them. I know for certain he would be abusing the BP like Collins does.

  • TPT

    if Grandy hit like a slugger hes suppose to be and he wasnt handed a pathetic line up fill of strikeout artists he be set like most managers instead he forced to juggle a non productive line up its not the mans fault at all its SA

  • Monix

    You have to resign that talent. The Mets will have to do that when the likes of Harvey, Wheeler etc are eventually free agents. Once the Mets are winning they’ll be able to afford that just like the Phillies suddenly began spending a lot more after they had success and developed Utley, Howard and Rollins.

  • billpulsipher

    the same amount of bad moves…check out the way he handles a bullpen for once..theres a reason no team touched this clown for 15 years

  • Sylow59

    I think it is more of a timing thing. Foe example the Cards signed Choate for two years. It made no sense tge past few years for the Mets to do so. Also there seems to be a shift in MLB towards homegrown bullpens. Until this year there weren’t any real internal options and this year is more of a “let’s see what we have”

  • WilponsNeed2Go

    Lacking motivational skills would be one fault, but he repeatedly makes mistakes that average managers don’t make. This second fault is reason why IMO he should be let go.

  • goorru

    he didn’t say that it means nothing. How did you get that from what he said?

  • Captain America

    Harvey wheeler Syndergaard Niese Gee plus a wealth of pitching prospects….

    That’s what mets fans say if a marlins fan splashed their talent

  • Monix

    You aren’t even right about the Red Sox payroll, by the way.

  • goorru

    Notice the lack of hitting prospects

  • Taskmaster4450

    How bout the Braves and compare their record to the LAD, Cubs, or CWS? Or take the Cardinals and look at them versus the Red Sox.

    And notice since the new CBA came into effect, amazing how teams like the Pirates and Royals are suddenly in contention.

  • Sylow59

    It’s too early to deal with the ramblings of those who do not understand of what they speak.

  • Mikey

    We have a Bullpen? When do we get to see them?

  • Joey D.

    HI Monix,

    The success or failure of that farm system – which is still 50/50 Sandy and the previous administration – will not be known for many years yet and will be dependent upon so many other additions made to go along with the prospects that come up from it. So one cannot prove anything at this point regarding the judgment of Sandy’s people and even with that, judging raw talent and raw talent then developing into major league talent are two different things. On the average more than half of the top 100 draft picks each year do not ever make it to the big show.

    For example, the Royals also had the highest ranked minor league systems for years on end and where did that get them? They finally had their first season in a decade in which they were over .500 and how much of that was due to a payroll that jumped from $60 to $83 million in one season?

    Going into the 2011 season, Baseball America ranked San Diego’s farm system as the fifth best in the country. Since that time, the Padres have never played better than .469 ball.

    Though the Cubs in 2011 had a farm system which the consensus was the bottom third in baseball, they still had many prospects in the top 100 at the time. They are still floundering badly.

    So a lot of what goes into making a good farm system deals with having a good eye to spot talent, the ability to foster and nurture that talent and luck – remember number one draft picks like Brian Taylor and Matt Bush never played a day in the majors. The attached might also be of interest as well regarding the “luck” factor as I put it.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/news/20130605/draft-pick-by-pick-breakdown/#all

  • Monix

    The days of signing elite players are over. You have to develop your own. Who was an eilte player besides Tanaka in free agency? Ellsbury was overpaid, no power, injury prone. Choo is a nice player but way overpaid, not great defensively. McCann is looking shaky. Who are all these elite All-Stars you can go sign nowadays????

  • TPT

    right and then he handed the man a line up with IKES TEJADAS DUDAS VALVERDES FARNSWORTHS AND SATINS AND A ROOKIE CATCHER AND NON PRODUCTIVE “SLUGGERS”WHO STRIKE OUT …NICE

  • billpulsipher

    he forgot to mention satin and eric campbell and the great wilmer flores..oh yea TDA the superstar

  • Taskmaster4450

    Cano was the only blue chip FA in this entire class.

  • Sylow59

    Well, at least it’s not APL (actuary here)

  • Monix

    That’s why I wish there was a salary cap. The Yankees would be a joke every year.

  • MetsfanInParadise

    The argument that TC’s mistakes are ultimately SA’s responsibility is valid, but the argument that you can’t hold the manager accountable is BS. The roster may limit us but the manager is also not making the best use of the pieces he has. If a kid goes to school in crappy clothes it could be because his parents don’t earn much or because they waste what they do have on lottery tickets and booze. A second problem doesn’t have to compound the first. Terry’s wasting what he does have.

  • derek murphy

    Right that was my response 100%. The fact that you can point to his decision making in several close losses is an issue. Nobody agrees with everything a manager does. However, when casual fans and trained professionals take issue with the same decisions it’s more credible. When that happens over and over there’s an issue. His in game decision making is worse than my sons little league coach.

  • TPT

    and look at the retreads and not one established true closer hes been given ..be nice to be the red sox or cardinals who have two great refief pitchers ea and GAME OVER kinda makes those managers look smart huh? AND P.S IF HE HAD 10 HRS AND 30 RBIS FROM GRANDY LIKE YOU’D EXPECT MOST OF TCs BULLPEN MOVES WOULD BE MUTE

  • Taskmaster4450

    And that is why NYC didnt win.

    The Yankees ONLY started winning after they rebuilt.

    But you ignore the facts just like most MMO.

  • mad met

    Oh there is plenty of blame to go around here folks

  • Mikey

    So far the only way to describe Sandy’s moves is he Overpays for crap and refuses to pay for Quality.

    We would be better off with Byrd and Hawkins right now!
    Byrd makes 15 Mil and is better than the two guys he got he is paying 20 Mil for this year!

    Hawkins would have saved us quite a few games for roughly what we are paying the 4 guys who haven’t gotten the job done now that Parnell went down.

  • Hodges14

    At the cost of a sustained run of intentionally losing.

  • Monix

    True. And look at the cost. Most of these huge deals don’t pan out in the long run. You have to develop some players. Amazes me how many NY fans don’t get this.

  • Taskmaster4450

    The Yankees are going to be a joke within a year or two.

    Their farm is bare and they know it. They are planning on blowing out IFA spending because they realize they need to get some talent in the system. The FA market sucks terribly. This off season there was one blue chip FA and it was a Yankee who signed elsewhere. Players are being extended so the Yankee model is done.

    The only ones who dont realize this is fans on here who still hold onto the spend spend spend mindset.

  • Hodges14

    But the Yankees win every year and their owners make a profit every year. I’d say they’re on to something.

  • Joey D.

    You mean the ramblings of Mike Epstein – he’s the one I quoted and the one I used as a witness to testify as to why the statistical analysis in the specific example I just cited is interfering with hitting.
    I talked about re-inventing the game and let Mike Epstein do my “ramblings” for me.

  • Terry

    What does Sandy have to do with Harvey, Niese and Gee?

  • Taskmaster4450

    And that is Alderson’s fault?

    Other than Flores and Puello, what was left in the organization?

    Seems that you are attacking the futility of the prior administration with that one.

    But Alderson did spend his first 3 (1st round picks on bats) so he is doing his part to rectify the situation.

  • Monix

    Well said. I think the media plays into this too in NY. It’s why they keep bringing up guys like Drew. Like spending millions for a marginal improvement some how demonstrates a commitment to winning and thus gets these clown writers off their backs.
    I remember when Rod Barajas had a hot start with the Mets and there were articles in the NY papers about why hasn’t Omar given him an extension yet.

  • Hodges14

    The 90s ended 15 years ago. They are still winning. How did they win in the 70s and 80s?

  • Taskmaster4450

    You can try to defend Collins all you want. He is underperforming with this roster. He is responsible for 5 loses with his stupidity. You can ignore the facts all you want but they are right in front of you every game.

    He doesnt have a championship roster but he has a better team than they have been playing.

  • CJM

    There are a lot of aspects to Alderson’s tenure that are easy to defend. What humors me about this article is that we are not supposed to blame TC, we’re supposed to blame Sandy. But TC is just plain bad, and has cost them games this year. Though ultimately, blaming TC translates into blaming Alderson–Alderson chose TC as manager and extended him. I think TC needs to go, and the longer he sticks around, the more I’ll blame Alderson.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Funny Freddi Gonzalez has a $75M slugger who doesnt hit or drive in runs yet that hasnt stopped him.

    Try again.

  • derek murphy

    Reyes got hurt thats why he wasnt traded. Also they got a good player with that pick who knows he may be better than what they would have gotten.

    Wright was not traded nor should he have been.

    Saying they should have traded everyone is easy to say. The FO has to worry about fans coming to the game. That made trading wright impossible. They did better than expected on every asset with the exception of Pagan.

  • Joey D.

    HI Colorado,

    This is what the Central Limit Theorem is:

    “In probability theory, the central limit theorem (CLT) states that, given certain conditions, the arithmetic mean of a sufficiently large number of iterates of independent random variables, each with a well-defined expected value and well-defined variance, will be approximately normally distributed.[1] That is, suppose that a sample is obtained containing a large number of observations, each observation being randomly generated in a way that does not depend on the values of the other observations, and that the arithmetic average of the observed values is computed. If this procedure is performed many times, the central limit theorem says that the computed values of the average will be distributed according to the normal distribution (commonly known as a “bell curve”).

    “The central limit theorem has a number of variants. In its common form, the random variables must be identically distributed. In variants, convergence of the mean to the normal distribution also occurs for non-identical distributions, given that they comply with certain conditions.

    “In more general probability theory, a central limit theorem is any of a set of weak-convergence theorems. They all express the fact that a sum of many independent and identically distributed (i.i.d.) random variables, or alternatively, random variables with specific types of dependence, will tend to be distributed according to one of a small set of attractor distributions. When the variance of the i.i.d. variables is finite, the attractor distribution is the normal distribution. In contrast, the sum of a number of i.i.d. random variables with power law tail distributions decreasing as |x|−α−1 where 0 < α < 2 (and therefore having infinite variance) will tend to an alpha-stable distribution with stability parameter (or index of stability) of α as the number of variables grows."

    This is what Mike Epstein said:

    "The first thing you must understand is that looking for that "perfect" pitch may be pretty elusive against these guys. When the pitcher's "on," throwing tough pitches right and left, and not "giving in" to the hitter in predictable count situations, I tell hitters not to look for the perfect pitch, but to open up their strike zones and simply put the ball in play. Too many times I see hitters taking hittable strikes early in the count (looking for that perfect pitch) and allowing the pitcher to quickly get two strikes on him."

    Leave it up to you my friend which seems more appropriate to tell a hitter what to do when going into the batter's box. 🙂

  • Monix

    Puig is an absolute headcase. I’m not so sure even the Dodgers would be dying to give him $20M a year right now.

  • Hodges14

    Rebuilding?

    Bartolo Colon 40
    Bobby Abreu 40
    Farnsworth 38
    Valverde 36
    Dice K 33
    Granderson 33
    Rice 32
    Torres 31
    Wright 31
    Chris Young 30
    Recker 30

    This is the oldest rebuilding team in the league. The Marlins are rebuilding. The Mets are stalling.

  • Joey D.

    HI Metfan9876,
    That is why I did not make an absolute statement either way since some suggest it is Alderson himself and others suggest Sandy is simply restrictive. I personally think that Sandy has little flexibility so it’s not a matter of if he is holding back anything sizable. I think if he was, the Wilpons would tell him not to.

  • Metropolitan

    there is enough criticism to go around..the GM Manager and ownership..no free pass for Collins, Rubin

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    It’s entirely possible that SA’s application of statistical analysis is flawed. Not saying it is, but no one would mistake his track record for Theo Epstein or Brian Cashman, or even Billy Beane for that matter. Again, the game perspective is seemingly missing from the Mets FO, and that seems to be confirmed by Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling on a fairly regular basis…

  • Hodges14

    When your franchise loses for 6 straight years it’s most definitely more than 1 person’s fault.

  • Connor O’Brien

    I highly doubt he is using many 15 year-old statistics. Not many teams are.

  • elsid1986

    and because it hasnt arrived yet you have no idea that it will impact the big league team. If it arrives at all that is.

  • Bill Buckner

    “But if the price was, say, six losing seasons under his watch first —
    plus the two from Minaya that preceded it — was that really great
    front-office work? Or if you fail enough seasons, is it simply
    inevitable that at some point you’ll accrue enough young talent to be
    competitive again?”

    This is my main issue with this FO. They expect us to wait patiently (and continue to flock to the ballpark and pay big market prices) while they “rebuild” and slash payroll for nearly a decade. 8 losing seasons is not “rebuilding”, it’s mismanagement. You can’t find many pro sports teams that have gone 8 years straight without a winning season…and in the rare case that you do, it’s invariably a poorly managed team from a small market.

    It’s not a Sandy problem, or a TC problem. It’s a Wilpon problem. Sandy and TC are pretty awful at what they do as well, but being given such little resources provides them with the least room for error imaginable….

  • Joey D.

    Hi Colorado,
    But a friend of mine who is very much into sabermetrics said Keith, Ron, Bobby O., and others “do not understand” sabermetrics and that is why they do not appreciate it and are limited in their way of understanding of how the game should be played and how teams should be rebuilt. That is his justification as to why Sandy Alderson knows the game better than they do.

  • Monix

    This is another tired argument on here. You don’t rebuild with players at the ML level who aren’t ready, so you fill in with placeholders.

  • elsid1986

    Well given that Alderson has only had 5 winning season in his entire career I think its safe to say he doesnt understand how to build a winning franchise either. And the only time he ever had a winner it was with the highest payroll in baseball.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Colorado,
    As always, you are welcome. And thanks for coming to my defense before regarding the drink comment. Appreciate it when one recognizes the difference between one having a disagreement and one simply wanting to attack because he cannot dispute the evidence as presented.

  • Hodges14

    You fill in 1/2 the roster? 4 years into the rebuild?

  • goorru

    So who are these blue chip can’t miss hitting prospects i should look for?

  • El_Verdadero_Presidente

    O’B, hey. Interested in your thoughts on BPO, and what you think of the financial carrot/stick approach that rewards deep counts and punishes swings outside the K zone, regardless of results.

  • elsid1986

    But Bill be reasonable Sandy has a plan. We should be competitve by 2018 or so.

  • Hodges14

    I seem to recall the Yankees winning with Reggie, Catfish, Goose, etc.

  • elsid1986

    Yea it only took the Pirates 20 years of top 5 draft picks. Lets follow that model. Great plan. Only 17 more years to go.

  • Hodges14

    You are picking 1 way to build a franchise. It’s not the only way and it’s not the quickest way and it’s not the most probable in terms of success.

  • CJM

    Yeah and there’s an interesting play on frustration by Rubin, where he points out that they lost at the end of Omar’s tenure too. Well, certainly nobody can blame Alderson for that. I’m not saying don’t blame the guy, but Rubin’s looking to spark some fires with this article. He’s not really bringing anything knew to the table. Informed fans are well aware of the situation with this team.

  • Hodges14

    Alderson has been here long enough (4 off seasons) to have the blame placed squarely on his shoulders for the mess of a roster he is fielding this year.

  • Matlack

    Hi Hodges, inevitable, or probable losing seasons are quite apart from “intentionally losing”. We’ve beaten this horse to death, but here goes, briefly:

    -Severe austerity

    -Terrible farm system

    -Materially large financial obligations to non-productive players

    -Operating losses for the big club

    What’s a GM to do? I know you believe we should’ve traded Wright for a haul. I disagree, but if I concede the point, it’s simply a matter of degree. We’d have been as bad as the Astros with no guarantee of replacing the lost production of a player who will possibly enter Cooperstown one day. Has SA made mistakes? Of course, as all GMs have. To date, none of those mistakes have interfered with the future of the club, although Granderson possibly will. Not saying he will, but one has to acknowledge the possibility.

  • MattHarvey’sEgo

    When and where did I say the minor league talent doesn’t matter? I was referring to the records of the minor league teams.

    I could not care less if Vegas wins the PCL championship. I don’t care if St. Lucie does. I care about the minor league players development within the system and the value those players bring to the major league club, whether it’s through their play on the roster or in the value they can potentially return in trade.

  • elsid1986

    Yea that Yankees are going to blow out IFA. Thats what big market GMs do. Too bad our GM still thinks he is in Oakland. But hey he gave Rosario 1.7 million. Name on Cuban in the last 3 years that Alderson even looked at. Puig? Nah we have Nimmo coming in 2017. Abreu? Nah we had we had a glut at first base.

  • elsid1986

    Yea because the Alderson model of year after year of 74 win seasons is so much better

  • CJM

    And if they end up having another bad year, I’ll be right along with you blaming him. The season is still young though. We will see some fruits of Alderson’s labor debut shortly. Others (Wheeler and d’Arnaud) are with the team already. Alderson went all in with the farm system. I think he’s well aware of the fact that if these guys don’t pan out, he’ll be completely skewered. The roster looks bad now, especially the bullpen. But I’m not gonna write off all of ’14 based on ~5 weeks of mercurial play.

  • elsid1986

    OMG how dare you point that out.

  • elsid1986

    50% of the roster placeholders? LOL.

  • MetsMaastricht

    No, not many teams are, but not many teams have been as futile as the Mets. Like I said, it’s a conjecture, but the track record of the Mets in “value” signings, particularly in the bullpen suggests that this could be the case. And it is empirically testable.

  • Mike

    I love how Rubin acts like only trading players if you’re going to win the trade is a BAD thing! Yeah let’s just make trades for the sake of making them so u’ll have something to tweet about. That guy is such a clown, who takes him seriously?

  • MetsMaastricht

    This could be the case. I’m just spit balling here.

  • Monix

    Sorry you don’t get how rebuilding with a limited payroll works.

  • elsid1986

    Matt Harvey will run away from this Alderson plan the first chance he gets. He is a competitor. He will want to win. Not sit around and wait for a few more 18 year olds to hit the majors in 2020.

  • Monix

    That’s not even 50 percent you moron. And he included guys like Wright. But why would the facts ever get in the way of bashing Alderson from guys like you, Pulsipher and Hodges.

  • Hodges14

    It’s not just the bullpen though. Aside from Wright they have no middle of the order hitters. They have no SS. They should have a major league veteran as a backup C to help TDA. The roster is terrible.

  • BMac

    “Still, it’s hard for me to be too critical of him or the previous GM as long as this current ownership remains in place. That’s where the real issue is.”

    Bingo!!! Until they are gone we are doomed.

  • MetsfanInParadise

    That was my point also–yes, Sandy is to blame for a lot, but Terry is costing us games regardless

  • Monix

    I think Harvey is a little more concerned with getting healthy than where he’s going to sign in 2018.

  • Hodges14

    Clearly, based on the W/L record, the current model is not working. Rubin is saying that they can’t be paralyzed by being afraid to make a trade. What they did with the first base fiasco was embarassing.

  • Monix

    Current ownership is not working. How hard is that to comprehend. LIke another GM will be able to wave a magic wand.

  • Connor O’Brien

    What’s the best way to win consistently?

  • elsid1986

    Keep telling yourself that……

  • Hodges14

    The only fact you need to see, which obviously doesn’t matter to you is the W/L record.

  • goorru

    Fredi has Craig Kimbrel , TC has Kyle Farnsworth

  • elsid1986

    Nah you fill 50% of your roster with garbage and ask your fans to sign a loyalty oath. LOL

  • elsid1986

    SHHHHHHH don’t tell them that. They think theres a plan.

  • CJM

    I agree the roster is bad right now. 100% agree. I am curious to see if it remains this bad, or if we see some players pick up. Alderson does also have a strong farm system now, and the ability to augment the major league roster via trade. There is room for improvement with the team and 120+ games remaining on the schedule. I’m curious to see where the 2014 Mets end up. My outlook is more optimistic than most folks here, but it’s not because I’m a full-fledged Sandy Alderson supporter. It’s because I think the team has a high ceiling. Things do need to be done to fix major problems they currently face, however, and I think the bullpen is where they should start.

  • Hodges14

    Wait. When Alderson got here, he was the guy who could win without a big payroll. He’s done a great job at not spending but I don’t see ANY winning.

  • Monix

    Lets hear your rebuilding plan. I’m sure it’s a doozy. It probably entails spending money they don’t have in an era of baseball with limited quality free agents and 20-20 hindsight of who they should’ve drafted now that a few guys are studs that we didn’t pick, which you could do to every franchise in every sport every year.

  • Matt Mosher

    BINGO

  • Mike

    Regardless of ur win loss record it’s never a good idea to rush into a trade

  • Hodges14

    After finishing his 4th off season as Met GM he should not have a roster like he does today. If he has chips in the minors that are worth as much as he would like us to believe then he should have started using them this winter to improve the roster. Either give them a shot to make the team or look to move some of them to get pieces that could help the team.

  • CJM

    Yup I agree. And TC is Sandy’s fault. I can find things to laud Alderson for and things to blame him for. TC is quickly working his way up to the very top of the latter list. And from my perspective, as a fan who has given Alderson the benefit of the doubt regarding his long-term vision, the longer TC stays, the more I doubt Alderson’s plan.

  • Monix

    Oh Wright is garbage now too. OK, got it.
    But wait, they spent money on him, that’s what matters right?

  • Hodges14

    There are multiple ways. The team across town has 21 straight winning seasons. Perhaps that would be a good place to start looking.

  • elsid1986

    I said 50% of the roster not 100%. Chris Young? Dice K? Duda/Satin/Ike? Valverde? Farnsworth? Bobby Abreu?

  • CJM

    Honestly, I don’t think the current roster will end up being as bad as they’re playing; like I said, I’m pretty optimistic. I see the potential for strong offensive performances from Wright, Murphy, Duda, Granderson, Lagares, and TdA, and to a lesser extent, Chris Young. Murph and Lagares have done well, Duda’s been decent, and TdA, Wright, and Granderson have all sucked. I still think they have the potential to bring the offense up a notch. The biggest problem I see is shortstop.

  • Hodges14

    I like Wright as a player but signing him to a big contract when you have no intentions of trying to win in the few remaining prime years he has makes no sense at all. He would have been more valuable to the franchise if he was traded for multiple pieces.

  • Hodges14

    Where did Rubin say anything about rushing into a trade? We’re 4 off seasons into the Alderson regime. I think it’s pretty clear that no rushing is going on.

  • elsid1986

    What matter is doing everything possible to be competitive. Not flushing 4 seasons down the toilet and do nothing else except talk about a plan. For 3 years we heard, when the contracts expire and we have payroll flexibilty. Now whats the target? When Cecchini and Smith come up in 2017?

  • Monix

    Wright’s included in the 50 percent that you replied to that Hodges posted. His numbers are quite skewed. Your list has 7 names, 2 of which are gone- Satin and Ike and two of which that have been productive-Farnsworth and Dice K. But yea that’s 50 percent. Good call.

  • Monix

    You heard that from the media. Not the Mets.Sign a slugger for LF this off-season, add a couple bullpen arms and a SS and this team is competitive.

  • Hodges14

    I remember last summer people saying the Yankees can’t spend going into the winter. That turned out to be bull$hit. I think it’s safe to say the Yankees are going to do whatever they need to do to field a competitive team.

  • elsid1986

    Farnsworth has blown how many games in the past week? They cut him in spring training because they didnt want to pay him 100K. Now they rely on him? Ike/Duda/Satin is the reason according to jeffy they didnt pursue Jose Abreu.

  • Monix

    So you don’t like rebuilding with just prospects but you wanted to trade Wright for prospects? OK. Got it.

  • Hodges14

    So why wasn’t that done? We were told they had money to spend. Are you suggesting that they are intentionally holding back because they enjoy losing?

  • derek murphy

    Who can I blame for such crappy writers covering the Mets. Let’s say your given a choice on what to read puma’s article, rubins article or an eye chart wouldn’t you pick the eye chart every time. At least when your done you know your vision. After there articles you know less than you did when you started. They are both filled with mis information.

  • Hodges14

    The Mets are not building with prospects. The Mets have one of the oldest rosters in the league.

  • metsman

    Not a single one position player. Puello? It’s so Metsian to be excited by a guy like that.

  • Monix

    B/c there was no stud LFer or SS to sign. You’re not going to outspend the Cards for Peralta. Choo isn’t worth over 100mil, neither is Ellsbury. I should rephrase- acquire a slugging OFer next year. Probably better chance in a trade. What can’t miss free agent did they not get this off-season? If you wanted them to spend more, that’s on the Wilpons. Not Sandy. They should’ve spent for Holliday when they signed Bay but this ownership always wants to shop in the bargain bin to save a few bucks.

  • Monix

    OK now you’re just trolling with that one.

  • SCarton12

    They get it, they don’t wanna get it (so they b!tch on blogs), but they get it.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Task,
    Unless Gil or Casey could pick up a bat and drive some more runners home or could come in relief and hold leads in the ninth, nope, don’t think they could have etched out many more victories.
    That’s not defending TC by no means and I did say the bigger issue is not Terry himself but the front office for putting together this team, the manager and the coaches.
    Terry, of course, has shown questionable moves even with the limited talent he does have so we’re not at all in disagreement. Not bringing in Dyce-K because he wasn’t ready – or at least not having another warming up with him knowing how Dyce-K needs more time getting ready – there is no excusing that of any manager and the guys in the booth were right for calling TC out on that one.
    And of course, with our bullpen being so shaky as it is, if a starter is going good – leave him in there for one or two more batters. Unfortunately, Terry leaves them in there when the starters are running out of gas.
    I won’t put the onus on the players except that no matter how hard they are trying, if it wasn’t for the Mets so many of them would not be in the majors at this time.

  • agetting

    correct me if I am wrong but wasn’t it you that said that Nelson Cruz would have been a horrendous signing??

  • jimmy705

    Monix, I heard Sandy Alderson himself say that he expected payroll to be at least $100 million each of the last two seasons. (Maybe the last three.) So don’t go blaming the media or us for making it up.

  • The people are starting to see the light and through Richie’s awfulness at being a GM. This is glorious. And a great new day.

  • CJM

    Yes. I am one of the people who said Nelson Cruz would be a terrible signing.

  • Hodges14

    The Mets are tied with the BlueJays in 7th place for the oldest roster in MLB.

    After 4 off seasons of supposed rebuilding it shouldn’t be that way.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rosters/_/sort/average_age/order/true

  • Monix

    The draft is in June. You don’t rebuild in the off-season.

  • agetting

    and he was THE GUY to sign all along

  • Hodges14

    There was no reason to do a total rebuild. You had Reyes, and Wright just entering their prime years and Beltran on the other side of his prime when Alderson stepped in. The only thing going on is that the owners are broke and can’t afford to run a major league franchise. Alderson, the Wilpons and Selig all crafted a nice story to dovetail with the Wilpons being broke and started spinning it to the fan base. 4 years later we have a 25 year old catcher who seems to have been over hyped and a lot of pitchers who apparently weren’t good enough to make the major league roster this year.

    Meanwhile in Miami they are actually doing a rebuild and have turned their roster over in less than 1/2 the time and now they are ahead of the Mets.

  • Hodges14

    Really? Then I guess it wasn’t necessary to trade Beltran and Dickey for minor league players. Maybe they could have traded them for major league talent or just re-signed them to stay with the Mets.

  • Peter S

    And to think 10 days ago the mets were 4 games over .500 and the team was “turning” things around.

  • Monix

    I think Alderson knows when the young pitchers are ready to come up so we should probably let him do his job.
    As far as Miami being ahead of the Mets. Lets see come September. The only thing they’re ahead of the Mets in is 1.5 games in the standings on May 12.
    We have the winningest record of all minor leagues right now so we’ll see how things play out in time. I get the sense that Miami’s best prospects are mainly all up with the team. Whereas many of the Mets’ are still in the minors.

  • Hodges14

    Getting major league experience is valuable. The Marlins are ahead of the Mets in all aspects.

  • Monix

    In all aspects of what? They’re 1.5 games ahead of the Mets on May 12. They’re not ahead of the Mets in anything else.

  • Hodges14

    Their future players are getting experience playing against major league competition. They already have one of the best starting staffs in baseball. Fernandez has a full season under his belt.

  • Hodges14

    large sample sizes are not the friend of the Mets management.

  • Old School Mets Fan

    I am not a huge fan of Collins and agree that most of this stems from a lack of talent on offense and the bullpen, which is on the GM. But keeping a manager on his way to his fourth straight losing season (especially where the GM says he wants to change culture/expectations) tells me that the front office is all about process and the hell with results. Same with Hudgens. I don’t think hitting coaches make a world of difference but how do you possibly bring back the same hitting coach when the offense underachieves year after year. If nothing else, maybe a new voice helps because you certainly can’t do any worse results wise. Unless of course the results don’t matter, just make sure we all stick to the “organizational approach” to offense. Which is why I suspect we still have Collins at the helm. Because the games themselves simply don’t matter to the front office.

  • Mikey

    It’s worse than that Sid because the Pirates probably picked better in the Draft than Sandy has!

  • DrDooby

    If you’re happy with alternating 1-2 good years with 5 rough ones at all times….

    The “Moneyball” teams of the past have managed to put together a sustained run of winning (after their rebuild) that lasted for several years.

    And you can rest assured that Billy Beane cares about things such as team control or arbitration clocks.

  • Monix

    You could say the same thing about the Mets this year if you had Harvey in the rotation. Otherwise they have a couple prospects they got for dumping their whole team to Toronto, the type of bold move NY teams never want to make in the rebuilding process.
    That leads me to this question – you said a complete rebuild wasn’t necessary b/c you had Wright, Reyes & Beltran but yet you said they should’ve traded Wright for prospects. Which is it? You can’t have it both ways.

  • DrDooby

    According to Rubin’s math, that would give the Mets a playoff team by 2017. So he’s already writing off 2015 & 2016 ?

  • Just_Da_damaja

    but we’re talking about Sandy, not Billy.

    Billy > Sandy

  • TPT

    if you think a team thats on its way to setting a new major league record for strikeouts and a bullpen without a top notch closer is one that is under achieving because of the manager than more power to ya but facts dont lie

  • Just_Da_damaja

    and right now, we’re alternating 1-2 good years with 10 rough ones.

  • DrDooby

    What’s wrong with Anthony Recker ? Would the Mets be better off with John Buck or with Kelly Shoppach ?

    This Mets team needs a SS. And maybe a reliever or two. But backup C seems like a rather superflous thing. They have a longtime former C in Bob Geren on the bench. If you need help, ask him.

  • TPT

    so your actually saying the Mets starting line up is comparable to the Braves? WOW hahaha ok then but i bet 90% of the people on here would laugh at that …

  • Just_Da_damaja

    …and who hired TC to be manager…then extended him?

  • TPT

    its easy to manage when you got the horses …your spot on

  • DrDooby

    Because he’d thrive as he has a DH / RF at Camden Yards had he gone to New York to CitiField ?

  • DrDooby

    Joe Girardi has an 85 million $ Catcher with a sub .600 OPS right now.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    Alderson’s statistics are older than u kiddo.

  • Hodges14

    and more importantly, a winning record.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    awesome pop the champagne !

  • Hodges14

    2 strikes

  • Just_Da_damaja

    does TDA’s awesome minor league numbers count when he’s sucking donkey nuts on the MLB level ?

    no?

    ok just checking !

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    Who didn’t replace him?

  • CJM

    Nope. Regardless of the Granderson/CY signings, Cruz would not have been in any way a good signing for the Mets–that is what I said all along, and continue to say. The argument remains the same, too, so since you remembered that I said he’d be a bad signing, you probably still remember the argument.

  • Hodges14

    I feel a little bad for TDA. The fact that he couldn’t make a major league opening day roster until he was 25 years old tells me this guy was overhyped. Hard to live up to that.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    1 – define winning
    2 – there are multiple ways, the braves did it one way, the yankees did it another way, the red sox did it another way, the cards are doing it another way.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    perfect !

  • Pedro’s Rooster

    I haven’t seen FX, but now I know how to distract guard dogs when I pull off my next great heist. 🙂

  • Hodges14

    That’s just it. We have it neither way. We didn’t trade off our assets for young talent (let Reyes walk, signed Wright to a big contract after Reyes left , makes no sense) and we don’t promote our prospects to get mlb experience. Instead we fill the roster with old retreads and watch the 7th oldest roster in MLB lose for another wasted season.

  • DrDooby

    Quick question: Before the SF Giants started winning, what did they do between 2005 and 2008 ???
    Right, lost 85+ games per year and drafted & developed Matt Cain, Tim Lincecum, Buster Posey, Sergio Romo, Buster Posey, Pablo Sandoval, Brandon Crawford and others who ended up being pretty useful for their teams since 2009.

    What Sandy, Theo or Jeff Luhnow in Houston are trying to do is building a team that can win for a long time without having to sport a payroll like the Yankees or even Red Sox. That takes time & patience. Which is starting to run out in the Mets case.

  • Hodges14

    Actually, I’m more concerned that as these guys get near free agency they are going to remember that the Mets screwed them out of a year’s worth (and millions of dollars) of service time and be looking for payback.

  • Monix

    No don’t try turning around the question. You avoided the answer because you contradicted yourself. You can’t trade and keep Wright both. You’ve said both things in your responses. Which is it?
    Also, which prospects do you want playing already? You can’t rush guys who aren’t ready.

  • Hodges14

    The only conclusion that you can reach is that Alderson believes that TC is doing a good job. There would have been no other reason to give him a new contract.

  • agetting

    his performance would have been better though, than Granderson whose hitting .175

  • Fonzie

    You still need young cost controlled talent to win with a low payroll. See Oakland and Tampa. The Mets bad none of the sort and had nothing above A ball when Alderson got here. It still perplexes me that a Met fan who’s been around as long as you say you have can’t comprehend that fact. Pick who ever you believe is the greatest GM of all time and he wouldn’t have had this disaster of a franchise in any better shape any faster.

  • CJM

    Yes it would still have been bad though. My comments on Cruz, and I’ve reiterated this many times, are independent of other signings Alderson made. Making poor signings does not mean he should have made an alternative poor signing.

  • Fonzie

    The rebuilding only started when they traded Beltran and KRod which was only 3 years ago. We weren’t rebuilding the first 3 losing seasons, we were trying to win. It’s not 8 years of mismanagement, it’s 25. We never tried to develop any talent. We depended on other teams misfortunes to get our best players.

  • Joey D.

    Hi TGWLC,

    History is made – we agree! 🙂

  • Fonzie

    Bingo. This guy has no clue and continues to prove it with his inane posts.

  • Mike B

    I think the FO is forcing him to start Meija, CY and Grandy. Left to TC, I bet you’d see Lagares, EY every game, and those other two, split time.

    How about this for a trade? Mets have pitching, Yanks don’t. But the Yanks have no young ones to give up, right. How about Colon straight up for Ichiro? Both 40, Ichiro is hitting .360, all without power. In spacious Citi Field, he’d kill, and Mets could keep him for 2 years, this year and next. As he’s only making $6.5 million, Mets would actually cut salary by moving Colon, bring up some young arm, and sit Grandy or CY as we’d be saving $3.5 million per year on Colon. And with Beltran, Ellsbury, Gardner, Yanks don’t really need him. They could use an arm. If not Colon, then Dice K.

  • Mets&jets

    What misinformation are you talking about? Do you actually think things are going good with this crap team that the crap front office and owners put on the field

  • Mets&jets

    Clown right

  • Mets&jets

    What are you talking about really

  • Mets&jets

    Exactly and the same with a manager.

  • Mets&jets

    Don’t bother they are sandy backers

  • Bill Buckner

    I don’t think it’s unfair to do that being that the Mets’ closest offensive prospect is at least two years away and it’s hard to believe that the Mets will go out and sign a solid bat given that they can’t be had for less than $90 million these days.

  • Mets&jets

    You do realize that the little talent on
    This team is omar guys right

  • Fonzie

    You realize Travis missed significant time due to various injuries costing him important developmental time or in your mind his development should be more tied to his age than experience?

  • Fonzie

    Okay now where did he pick one way. I read starts at bottom and works it’s way up. He didn’t pick one way.

  • Fonzie

    Wrong. He had a top payroll one year in 92 the rest of his years they were between 5th and 13th averaging around 8th. And top payroll would be around 18 million with most teams seperated by hundreds of thousands not 100 million like the Yanks and Dodgers have over most teams. When he won baseball was on a more level playing field, everyone including KC could compete with big market teams.

  • Mets&jets

    I wouldn’t be surprised if it was 2017..why that would surprise you wouldn’t me

  • Mets&jets

    Everyone is to blame including fans that go to games

  • john q

    Jimmy 705,

    Cashen’s tenure at the end (1988-1991) is really kind of strange and awful. Tony Castillo (good relief pitcher-mid 1990’s Blue Jays) for Alejandro Pena was probably his only good trade of that time period. And then Harazin traded Castillo & Careon to the Tigers for Paul Gibson (bust) so the Mets never even reaped the benefit of that one.

    I think three things effected Cashen’s late tenure with the Mets: collusion, the upset lose to the Dodgers in ’88 LCS and the rise of WFAN. The Mets agreeing to collusion was not only criminal but asinine. Rather than use their economic advantage of being in the biggest metropolitan area in the country, the Mets agreed to squander that for the sake of collusion.

    There were already red flags in 1987 as Gary Carter was shot and Hernandez was past his prime. He started making bad moves like the Milligan for Sasser trade in ’88. He already traded so much for K. McReynolds at the end of ’86. Mitchell is obvious but people forget that S. Jefferson & S. Abner were big prospects back then. He could have just kept Mitchell and used Abner & Jefferson in a trade. He didn’t make any good moves in 1988.

    It seems like that Dodger loss left them in a state of disarray and panic. It seems like they just started making panic moves after that. They didn’t have a decent catcher in ’89 and Hernandez was shot at 1b.

    He traded Backman which wasn’t a big deal but he forced Jefferies onto the team and he took Wally Backman’s place. Jefferies was awful at 2b and then he struggled badly and the team already didn’t like him and now he took Wally’s place and then the fans turned on him and then he handled it terribly.

    Then into that mix was WFAN which poured gasoline on a fire. Back in those WFAN was basically WMET and people for hours and hours only complained/talked about the Mets.

    The team defense had dropped drastically by 1989. They made that God awful Samuel trade (which everyone in NY applauded at the time). People on WFAN screamed for Samuel. Then they screamed for Viola which was another bad panic trade. HoJo’s vastly underrated great year kept them above .500. He traded solid relief guys like Terry Leach and Rich Rodriguez for nothing.

    By the time you get to 1990-91 most of the trade chips were gone. Strawberry left in ’91 he traded Ojeda for H. Brooks to play RF?? For some ridiculous reason they paid V. Coleman a bunch of money as a free agent. You get to 1990-91 and the only + move he made was acquiring back up catcher Charlie O’Brien.

    He left in 1991 with the team in disarray. The people on WFAN were screaming their heads off. Then Harazin made two decisions which are still puzzling. Rather than re-sign David Cone and Frank Viola they decided To make Bobby Bonilla the highest paid player in baseball history. And then they also signed 36 year old Eddie Murray for some reason. In my line of thinking, you couldn’t give up that many players for Viola to only get 2 years and 1 1/2 months of service.

    The Mets gave up quite a bit in the Carter trade. Hubie Brooks & Floyd Youmans. People kind of forget now but Brooks was on his way to win the MVP in 1986. He was hitting .330-340 at SS and started the All Star game for the N.L. He tore ligaments in his thumb and was missed most of the season after that. He still won the SS as he had done in “85. Youmans had 200 k’s in 1986 and then he got into some drug problems. Carter was great in ’85 and good in ’86 and then was hurt late in the season and basically shot from ’87-89. Overall it’s kind of wash trade for both teams. It’s greatly overrated by Mets fans because the Mets won in ’86 and Carter had the first hit to start that rally and he hit a key HR in Boston. I’ve often wondered how Carter or that trade would have been judged/viewed by Mets fans had they not won ’86 or had Brooks not gotten injured in ’86.

    The Carter/Wright analogy is bit different in that Carter was a 31 year old catcher when he came to the Mets.

  • john q

    All teams technically make a profit when you consider the appreciation and value of the franchises. Teams like to cry boohoo and say they don’t make money which is complete nonsense.

    Well the Yankees have an enormous economic advantage in that they’re in a sport without a salary cap or NFL style revenue sharing while participating in the largest market and largest fan base in the U.S. They also have a “legal” monopoly.

    They Yankees are the only team in baseball who can take a $175 million risk on a player like Tanaka and then just walk away if the player is a bust.

  • Fonzie

    You’re going to just run in circles with these guys. They just don’t understand magnitude of the disaster that was the Mets from top to bottom and what it was going to take and how long to fix it. Some Mets fans got so accustomed to rooting for a dysfunctional franchise that they don’t understand when it’s being built properly. Seems like the older they are the more cluless they are.

  • ACasteloJr7

    You should be the GM! Seriously……..

  • BronxMets

    Way part of he doesn’t have a hitting prospect over A ball didn’t yu get.

  • Donal

    So, the Mets losing is glorious?

    And another good week will bring stories how the clubhouse has renewed energy, turning things around, blah blah blah

  • Fonzie

    After getting shelled through the mid 60’s and early 70’s they added around an excellent core of young talent, home grown or traded for. They didn’t sign those guys first. Where’s the young core of cost controlled players? Where’s the position players we developed the last decade? Let me know when you think of them. Shouldn’t take long because we didn’t and the one we did we traded for Johan. I seem to recall having Wright, Beltran, Reyes, Delgado, Johan and KRod and not able to have a winning record and you think they should’ve kept the last 3 guys even though they weren’t able to win with those 3. You’d make a fine GM. LOL

  • Donal

    Eh, say what you will about Rubin, the dude hustles and tells it how he sees it.

  • ACasteloJr7

    The Front Office is a joke. Just look at The Met’s Shortstop dilemma. They had arguably one of the best Shortstops in the game and a fan favorite (not to mention a pure leadoff hitter with some pop). So instead of rewarding Reyes they decide that Ruben Tejada could fill in nicely?

  • BronxMets

    And they have done what in the MLB level. I see you left out TDA

  • Donal

    “You can’t find many pro sports teams that have gone 8 years straight without a winning season…and in the rare case that you do, it’s invariably a poorly managed team from a small market.”

    The Rangers missed the playoffs for 7 straight years in a league where more than half the teams go. And yet now people here are talking about what a great job the Dolans have done with them.

  • Connor O’Brien

    The best way to win is to have a constant flow of young prospects. (Unless you have unlimited money)

  • BronxMets

    This is true

  • Just_Da_damaja

    u mean like the pirates…the royals…?

    they’ve had a constant flow of young prospects …

    try again young one

  • CJM

    Fans that go to games? Ok.

  • Connor O’Brien

    Again, still the best way. It’s very hard to win without at least a few good cheap players. You know this. And you can show me the Royals and Pirates but I can show you many, many other teams.

    If I were to say that following all traffic laws is the best way to avoid a car accident, you could point to many examples of people who died following the rules. However, I can show you the millions of people who follow the law every day and come home safe.

    Few teams, especially ones without a ton of money, win without young, cheap players. At least since the explosion of salaries, but even before that. The Braves had their pitching and Chipper. The Cardinals have young pitching and some young bats. There may be some anecdotal examples but really… Look at the overwhelming evidence.

  • Mets&jets

    That puts money in these crooked owners pockets

  • Connor O’Brien

    There will always be variations, but the basic principle remains the same.

  • CJM

    When I spend $10 on my ticket and sneak my alcohol in, the contribution I make to their pockets is negligible. Well worth it for the enjoyment I get from watching a game in person.

  • Captain America

    ????????????

  • Captain America

    My heroes have passed away sad to say.

  • Nope. I said people seeing through Richie’s ridiculousness and seeing that he is really bad at his job is glorious. Richie does not equal the Mets. He works for them and has been making them worse. He will be gone, and we will remain, and be for the better. I want the Mets to win; to really win; and Richie ha sonly proven he can lose.

  • L.J. Phipps

    Just a bad organization at this time period! Owners are questioning their financial resources, GM and his staff certainly have an issue evaluating talent, and the manager is awful with in game decisions. How can these guys win with all that? (Update: Blowtolo gives up a granny to Bret Gardener, wth?)

  • Hitmanᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ✔

    It’s not Alderson’s fault and it’s not Collins fault….

    IT’S BOTH OF THEIR FAULT!

    For one, Collins & Co. had NO BUSINESS getting an extension and I have never seen a manager get rewarded with a 2 year deal after back to back 74 win seasons. The hitting has been absolutely underperforming every year and one of their best hitters have openly been vocal in how the hitting approach has its flaws. It may help youngsters, but not established vets that you know will bring to the table.

    Collins? This man waits until things get ugly for things to change. I hate the fact that he doesn’t mix up his lineups and designate specific guys in a certain spot, even if it’s not doing them good. The bullpen? Don’t get me started. Everybody here knows that Familia has the best stuff and is the most qualified guy to be the team’s closer after Parnell went down. Did he? NO. He gave it to Valverde & Farnsworth. NAME YOUR CLOSER! Why are you taking THIS long? The closer by committee thing is a joke. What’s worse is that when he finds a guy in the pen that can get a joke, he uses them again & again & again until their arm, shoulder, elbow or whatever falls off. Byrdak, Rice, Edgin, Torres. It just doesn’t stop. At times, when a starter is in a groove, he takes them out prematurely.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    u should get 6-10 years out of your stud prospects. after year 10, u should have a replacement come from within, u supplement with free-agents and trades as needed.

  • Captain America

    And their ace goes down for the season

  • RKH

    I am just happy that yet another one of the beat writers is calling out Alderson. I know the Wilpons are terrible owners and the Mets organization will never be as successful as it could/should be as long as they continue to own the team. But, do other fans really think the team can’t have another winning season as long as the Wilpons own the team? Because I totally disagree with that. However, as long as Alderson is around as GM, I don’t think the team will ever have another winning season. Yeah, the team has some good young pitching, which is nice. But, what team doesn’t have good young pitching these days? It takes a lot more than decent young pitching for a team to win and I have no confidence whatsoever that Alderson is capable of getting the types of position players and bullpen help that is needed for the team to have a winning season again. I am already dreading this upcoming off-season thinking about how if Alderson is back as GM, the off-season will be similar to the previous few. And that is not going to be nearly enough to get the team back into contention.

    As far as Collins is concerned, I will have no problem if the Mets fire him. He is a lousy manager who seems to be incapable of getting the most out of his players. But, ideally, I would like to see a new GM hired first and then Collins fired, kind of like what the Knicks just did with Mike Woodson.

  • Connor O’Brien

    Exactly!
    Except, ideally, you want a continuous flow of prospects but if you’re winning for a decade, there isn’t much to complain about.

  • Fonzie

    What talent? Why do you think this team can’t even put a 500 season together, they have no nucleus to build around. Murphy is the only established position player to emerge from Omar’s farm system and he’s average. He did a decent job with Gee and Niese as well as had to have a disaster of a 2009 season to be in position to draft Harvey. Otherwise he’d have nothing to show for 6 years of drafts and IFA signings. BTW that little talent left was from the work 8f Steve Phillips’ scouts. Same scouts, same draft philosophy, same results. CRAP.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    HAHAHAHAHA….I wish i was around whe this was 1st posted.

    SANDY SUCKS………

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    ONLY 1 PROBLEM THERE my friend @pedros_rooster:disqus

    And that problem is

    1.SANDY SIGNED COLLINS
    2.SANDY RESIGNED/EXTENDED COLLINS A NEW DEAL

    So it all falls at Sandys feet he is the architect

  • Hotstreak

    Blame losing on Omar even though all SA moves are calling up Omar’s guys based on their performance. SA like Obama is still getting us out of Bush’s mess. Classic case of no accountability. Media is starting to turn.

  • Hotstreak

    Yankees can w/o their mistakes. Mets cant.

  • Hotstreak

    Seriously Connor. Show me how teams make aquistions (yes Moneyball did) but based on saber today. Jason Bay had all the earmarks of a bad signing. He was terrible with to stikes even in good years with Boston and most certainly here. Grandy just pulls the ball over 95%-99% of time. Yet we acquired him from Yankee Stadium short porch for Citi Field. He was coming off an injury prone bad year.

    These guys were signed nevertheless. Jason Bay and Grandy redflag contracts. Jason Bay even had some medical issues.

  • Bill Buckner

    Maybe I’m mistaken, but I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a fan credit Dolan as being a good owner…

  • Fonzie

    No team in the entire sport has a nucleus of home grown talent to build around that were drafted or from IFA signings from 2011 to present. Calling up Omar’s guys now is not going to add wins to the 2011, 2012 and 2013 campaigns. Where were Omar’s players the last 3 seasons. Daniel Murphy was the only player from our farm system drafted or signed during Omar’s tenure that’s any good and he’s just good, nothing special. No other GM was going to succeed taking over a franchise in that condition. That is the reality of the situation and those who live in a realistic world are smart enough to realize this. Those who don’t act like idiots by calling the realistic one’s Sandy Lovers. If only Sandy had the power to pull a SS, C, 1B, 3 OF’s and an entire bullpen out of his arse

  • Hotstreak

    SS Reyes
    1B Jose Aberu
    OF Pagean, Lagares and Beltran with Puello and Decker

    I zapped your point again.

  • Hotstreak

    Reyes in ST 2011 (SA got here Nove 2010) and wanted to see if he was healthy) He should have tendered him an offer inST 2011 once Reyes showed he was healthy. f not then trade him in ST 2011, Reyes said he preferred not to negotiate during the season.

  • Fonzie

    As usual you zapped nothing. As usual you didn’t even understand a single point I made. Color me surprised.