Offense Has Been Holding Up Their End Of The Bargain

david wright curtis granderson

If you’re like every Mets fan, through the first 46 games of the season you’ve likely been saying how terrible our offense is, and how we need to trade from our glut of young pitching for a big bat.  After all, the Mets are hitting .234 as a team, while slugging a paltry .351.  Both good for 14th out of 15 teams, with the only team below us in those categories being the punchless San Diego Padres.

Yet, somehow, the Mets are 5th in the NL in runs per game.  They also sit in the top 3 in walks, stolen bases, and rank 6th in RBIs.  Sure we could use more offense, but considering the large dimensions of the stadium, and the strong winds seemingly always gusting toward home plate from the Flushing Bay, I’m not so sure it’s the offense we should be concerned about.

While we are dead last among NL teams in batting average, on-base & slugging percentage at home, we are 3rd, 3rd, and 7th in those same categories in games in which we play on the road.  I know this is going to be hard for you to believe, but we are currently the best offensive team in baseball when we play on the road, as we have averaged 4.95 runs per game, slightly ahead of the Dodgers who sit at 4.76. The simple fact is that its tough for anyone to hit in Citi Field.  Especially in the cooler months of April and May.  I would wager that those numbers start to increase a bit as the weather warms up and the wind dies down.  We will see in a very short time.

What’s concerning to me is that we are currently sitting at 11th place in team ERA out of 15 teams.  When you consider the fact that we DO have such a tough park in which to hit the baseball, and our pitching is supposed to be our area of strength, its quite the opposite thus far.

We are currently 12th in ERA in road games, but our staff isn’t taking advantage of pitching in half of our games in Citi Field.  We are also 12th in ERA in home games. That goes along way to figuring out why we are 11-11 on the road, and just 10-14 at home.  The offense has been much better on the road, but that is to be expected.  What isn’t and should not be expected is that our pitching staff is at or near the bottom of the league no matter where we play.

Jon Niese has been good when he pitches at home this season to the tune of 2-2 and a 2.87 ERA, but he has been a touch better on the road at 1-1 with a 2.49 ERA.  Dillon Gee has been pretty good at home (1-1, 3.18), but he has been lights out on the road  (2-0, 1.93).  Zack Wheeler is taking advantage of the unfriendly confines, sporting a 3.50 ERA at home and 5.12 on the road.  Bartolo Colon is as well (3.15 home, 6.51 away). Mejia has been much better at home  3.12  at home, and 6.48 on the road.  For the most part our starters have been taking advantage of pitching in Citi Field.

It looks like the bullpen is the culprit, as Jeurys Familia (4.82 home, 2.31 away), Gonzalez Germen (6.75 home, 0.00 away), and Josh Edgin (9.00 home, 0.00 away) all have much higher ERAs at home.  Parnell and Lannan also pitched one inning each at home in the early part of the season and provided a 9.00 and 36.00 ERA respectively.  With Lannan and Farnsworth no longer with the team, the bullpen should be pitching better at home from here on out.  I think now that we have defined some roles for the relievers, we will see a much improved bullpen.

Jenrry Mejia has looked really sharp as our potential new closer, as he has yet to give up a run in his 5 appearances while converting both of his save opportunities.  Dice-K has looked really good as the setup man of late.  He has walked his fair share of hitters, but opponents aren’t hitting him at all, as they have mustered a batting average of just .130 against him for the season. Familia looks like he is feeling more comfortable in a 7th inning role as his ERA for the season now sits at 3.43, and he’s pitched to the tune of a 2.70 ERA in his last 10 appearances. Scott Rice seems to have recovered from whatever was bothering him to open the season.  He hasn’t given up a run in his last 5 appearances.

The bottom line is that with an organization that has put such an emphasis on pitching being our strength, they simply haven’t held up their end of the bargain up to this point.  With Gee coming back from injury, and deGrom taking Mejia’s place in the rotation, as well as our bullpen finally settling into some defined roles, things should be looking up for the pitching staff.  If you would’ve told me before the season that we would’ve scored the 5th most runs per game in the NL, I would’ve thought there would be no way we would be below .500.

We play our next six games at home against two last place teams in Arizona and Pittsburgh, and then go on the road to play five games against the last place Phillies, who just placed Cliff Lee on the DL, and then off to Chicago to play a less than fierce opponent in the Cubs.  Now would be a good time for our pitching staff to start pitching like the strength of this team, because the offense is putting up enough runs to win.  They may not be scoring runs the way we want them score, by hammering the ball over the fence, or out-slugging their opponents, but they are scoring nonetheless.

bleed orange & blue  button

  • Can we get a #FreeFlores and #FreeSoup hashtag going. (Mmmmm free soup)

  • Helloboy

    Soup and Flores will start energizing this lineup. Granderson is heating up… a turnaround is coming. schedule is about to turn very favorable.

  • Destry

    I will say that I don’t think Flores is the long term answer at SS, but it is quite clear he’s just a good defensively as Tejada, and on a different level completely offensively. The only reason Tejada should be in the starting lineup ever again is if Flores gets injured or needs a day off.

  • TAPE_LGM_JETS

    It could be time to start looking at Matt Reynolds numbers in AA and hope that he could be that respectable SS we need until Cecchini and Amed are ready. I think he is batting .350

  • This is a good post but I don’t think that much will change when it comes to our pitching. I don’t see any obvious change that is screaming out and being ignored. You want to take Wheeler or Colon out of the rotation? Who is the obvious choice to replace? Montero is not a given yet at the MLB level. deGrom looks good but too early to be sure. The bullpen seems to have moved in a direction that makes some logical sense.

    The offense is another story. It is time to put all of the TC crap to rest and find comfortable, regular spots on the bench for Tejada and the Youngs and keep marching Lagares, Soup, and Flores out there until they give you a reason not to over a period of time. So obvious to all but those running the team. If someone wants to argue that Campbell needs a little more time to earn the spot, fine, but I say give him a shot based on the premise that we need to do something very different to get our offense going consistently.

  • Not4

    It has been a weird season in that our offense has really been inconsistent and non-existent at times, and we are still sitting 5th in the league in runs scored.

    Unfortunately, I think that our runs scored is more of an anomaly given how poor some of our hitters have hit and will likely correct itself over the course of a full season. Fortunately, I think many hitters can and will improve on their production (particularly Wright) as Grandy has done in May, and others (if played enough) will offset the poor production of those they replaced (like Flores and Campbell in whatever role he can play).

    Think the pitching will improve too, as some of it was caused by players who are gone and some by a couple bad innings from Colon and Wheeler and Mejia, which, in the case of Colon, hopefully will disappear with warmer weather and in the case of Wheeler and Mejia, hopefully will be minimized as they mature. (It would also help if the manager was not catatonic as these melt downs occurred and actually got off his arse to do something).

    As for Dice-K, he has been a pleasant surprise, and I think he can continue to pitch well for us all year in the right role. I don’t think that role is as the set-up man, but rather as a middle reliever who, along with Torres, can pitch multiple innings effectively. While he has kept his hits down, he has still been hit hard (see last night). I’d rather see Familia developed into that role than Dice-K.

  • RyanF55

    Nice article and yes, the Mets are scoring runs, but they’ve been putrid scoring when they need to:

    RISP: .249/.335/.377/.711
    RISP and 2 Out: .194/.299/.269/.567
    Bases Loaded: .146/.196/.220/.415
    Late and Close: .253/.327/.360/.687
    0 Out, Runners on 2nd and 3rd: .000/.000/.000/.000 in 10 PA
    Two Out with the Bases Loaded: .091/.167/.091/.258

    I know some people feel these stats are misleading and that a .300 hitter hits 3 times out of 10 no matter what, and whether or not a player hits in those situations is strictly just timing, but I don’t buy that. Certain players have a tendency for the big hit…The Mets don’t have those guys.

  • DrDooby

    The pitching has the potential to improve.

    Colon has been pretty to very good in the majority of his starts – but his numbers got destroyed by the three horrific outings in LA, COL and NYY. Except for a few starts left against the Phillies maybe, he´s now going to pitch in favorable environments for his game.

    Obviously, Zack Wheeler remains a huge key. So far, he has performed like a # 4/5 SP. But his stuff is that of a potential # 1/2.While there´s plenty of risk, there´s also a ton of upside. He – like Travis d´Arnaud & Wilmer Flores for the offense and the Mejia & Familia combo in the pen – remains a big key to the Mets 2014 chances.

    The bullpen will hopefully now find some sort of stability:

    Closer: Mejia
    RH setup: Torres, Dice K and Familia (with Dice K & Torres being able to work multiple innings if needed)

    LH setup: Rice & Edgin
    Mop-up: Valverde or an eventual replacement

    And one thing to keep in mind, the depth is good enough to survive injuries.

    But again, as Wheeler, Mejia, Familia, d´Arnaud and Flores perform the rest of the way, so will the Mets.

  • DrDooby

    The RISP actually is totally in line with league averages. And so is the “late & close”. Considering the underlying numbers, the Mets have scored more runs than one would expect them to.

    All other numbers are such small sample sizes that it´s really not of any use yet.

  • The most athletic weatherman

    Saw a stat this morning that Granderson is batting .310 in the month of May with 14 rbi…this is after .136 in April. He’s really turned his season around which is very encouraging

  • Joey D.

    HI Destry,

    Very well thought out and something I had been looking into as well.

    You might recall the question was raised three days ago about Citi Field becoming a home field advantage. In that I focused on the hitting while today you focused on the pitching (great point about the pitching not taking advantage of the home field). I concluded based on my own observations and borrowing a tip from Connor and using some basic stats to “quantify” my assertion how overall the hitting hasn’t been all that better away from Citi than at home (and that we were not going to find the answers in stats, which is a different subject anyway).

    This is a bit lengthy since it involves a response from Ryan and my subsequent reply:

    ——

    Joey D. • 3 days ago

    You might find this interesting. If we go by the team “stats” the
    Mets hitting is not at all anemic. They are fifth in runs scored per
    game at 4.02, slightly above the league average of an even four
    through 43 games and seventh in total runs – though those above them
    have had one to three extra games played to their advantage.

    But what a difference two games make. Take away both contests at
    Yankee Stadium and their average RPG drops to 3.71 for 41 contests,
    which would rank them 12th in the league and .29 below the league
    average. Let us say they scored the league average four runs in each
    of those two contests in the Bronx. That would have raised it all
    the way up to 3.72 RPG for 43 games instead which would still have
    ranked them 12th in both average runs per game and in total runs
    scored to date.

    Reply

    Ryan5757 Joey D. • 3 days ago

    But what if we go the other way on this stat? What if we leave in the the two games at Yankee Stadium and just arbitrary take out the two games the Mets got shut out in against the Yankees at Citi and just chalk it up to good pitching by the Yankees? Then the offense looks slightly better. see more 0 Voting has changed. Learn more

    Reply

    Joey D. Ryan5757 • 3 days ago

    Hi Ryan5757,

    We could, but what difference would it make? I only used the stat to point out how that if one looked a baseball reference this morning one would ask “what anemic hitting?” comparing the Mets to other national league clubs. Those two games only over-exaggerated the stats and makes the hitting appear more than it is and that was the point about Yankee Stadium.

    What about the anemic hitting we’ve seen throughout the season both at home and on the road? That was the whole point – go from what one’s eyes see. As BronxMets said below, “one has to be careful with stats”. That is why so many of us don’t talk about the game in terms of stats except for points of reference as opposed to the bigger picture we are painting.

    One can really get into the ridiculous with stats if one wants to. Place the Mets in a park like Yankee Stadium, Arizona, Denver or Philadelphia and it could be argued they would be the re-incarnation of murderer’s row – scoring an average seven runs per game in the ten contests played. But then, of course, the counter argument would be that those the teams in those three national league parks are also the teams with the three highest runs per games allowed in the senior circuit. And yet, Colorado which the Mets faced four times has about the same ERA at home as it does on the road while Arizona pitching allows about 3/4 of a less run per game on the road as it does at home as well.

    They also have only three more home runs on the road than that at home – which includes the barrage at Yankee Stadium and having played one more game on the road as well. What does that prove? Statistically, only limited information because there are too many variables to put a finger on any one thing.

    For example. Overall, has the schedule been against the Mets and have the road ballparks been more pitcher friendly and is this what is responsible for the Mets lack of run scoring and home run power on the road as well, despite the stats as cited above? Well, we know Washington is the worst as far as home runs is concerned and Miami is not so far behind. But the Mets have also played 16 games in Anaheim, Atlanta, Denver, Arizona, Philadelphia and Yankee Stadium and in those 16 games they average six runs per contest.

    So of course, ball park factors do come into play yet up to a point. One has to look beyond the stats to get the real answers.

    Based on observation – what about the Mets adjusting their swings to that of Citi Field which therefore prevents the power from coming on the road? That’s one possibility which does infer direct connection with Citi Field and on the road. However, the Mets are not getting runners on base either through base hits or walks. How much of that still comes from the metric hitting philosophy affecting whatever hitting skills those players do have? And of course, that lack of overall hitting means those with legit power like Wright, Granderson and Duda are being pitched around – regardless of being at home or on the road – so they won’t be the ones to beat them?

    The more answers one gets from stats, the more questions they raise instead. In turn, the more answers one gets from observation, the more one knows there just is not a simple way to determine probabilities systematically and that it has to be done based on individuality working together cohesively as a team taking into account the who, what and where’s of each upcoming game.
    ———
    Destry, I do have faith that our young pitching is going to come around because we have seen so many positive glimpses of it so I’m not to sure we have to concentrate on improving. On the other hand, I believe I have made a valid argument as to how our hitting is indeed anemic and the stats have been exaggerated by the parks on the road and, in turn, should even be more of an exaggeration on the road of which they aren’t.

    Either way, we’ve got a long way to go but I’m glad we are both looking at things through what we see and not what we compute. Good points even if we have some disagreements on which path to go pursue.

  • Helloboy

    If Soup can get life into the OF and they keep Flores in there, they could get a turnaround, especially if Juan keeps getting on. I am willing to let Flores play out the year as the SS, he has not looked bad out there at all, much better than I expected.

    With Drew off the market, i would see what Flores has all year. I think the primary problem is at 1B. I would like to replace catcher too, but that is a harder thing to do. Plus Plawecki should be available in a year.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Not4,
    Please see my comment below regarding that anomaly and if you have a chance, let me know what you think.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    I commend your research, but it doesnt matter how you slice the stats up this team still stinks.

    The offense has been terrible and the headline was very misleading.

    For the greater part of the season the Offense has been the most consistent problem. Most of us watch/listen to almost every game.

    The pitchers have to be almost perfect to get a Win. We score a lot of our runs on mistakes by the opposing team not due to our at bats.

    And while the pitching hasnt been that great lately[aside from Niese and Gee] but the defense hasnt been doing them any favors.

    Wright has been bad a 3B
    Murphy is Murphy at 2B
    EY has been the WORST in LF
    CY has struggled some in the OF
    Grandy has been OK
    Tejada is Tejada for every good play theres 3 brutal plays
    Duda has been OK
    All catchers have been BRUTAL(Which might be the cause of some pitching issues)

    This team SUCKS and the stadium has little to do with it.

  • RyanF55

    I agree. A Campell/Young and Flores/Tejada swap is literally an entire different lineup.

  • Ace719

    Actually i just looked up Granderson May stat line and I will take that stat line every month from now on if i can get it from him.

    Avg: 310
    OBP: 372
    HR: 5
    RBI: 14
    SLG: 592
    OPS: 964

    That puts him at 26HR and 77 RBI at the end of the year. I would like more RBI (around 90) but considering how poorly he started i will take that.

  • Ace719

    I also believe that if we play flores and Lagares every day our offense can be much improved. Duda and Young need to step it up and TDA needs to come back and start hitting some rockets. I complained about him all year but now watching this other 2 catchers, i gotta say i feel more comfortable with TDA at the plate.

  • mytoemytoe

    The team stinks but you’re being unfair to the good players who are being dragged into the mud.

    First of all, you’re totally down on Wright, but he’ll have a huge month soon and you’ll go back to simply complaining that he doesn’t hit enough home runs.

    In my mind you can count Wright, Murphy, Granderson and Lagares as guys you can count on to play every day and be productive over a long season. That’s 4 good players out of eight in a lineup. MAYBE you can count on Flores, so let’s pretend that’s 5. D’Arnaud is a black hole. You can probably salvage something with Duda/Campbell as a platoon at first. That’s 6. So 6 effective hitters out of 8 and Terry Collins has no clue what order to bat them in.

    I’d say the bullpen stinks, the starters have been OK but could be a lot better and the line-up, despite being half a lineup, has found a way to score some runs. If Wright starts hitting and Flores plays full time maybe the lineup can get into a rhythm.

  • mytoemytoe

    Yup. Duda/Campbell platoon at first. Bench Chris Young, play Eric Young and put him at the BOTTOM of the lineup so that you can hide his terrible average.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Hard to say the offense isnt the problem when the Mets rank last or near last in the NL in most major offense categories.

    I agree with you the one stat that matters when it comes to offense is runs scored (and runs given up when it comes to pitching). And the Mets are doing well scoring at times because they get clutch hits. The problem with that is when guys dont come through, which is going to happen, the offense simply doesnt get enough chances.

    The ironic things is the Mets overall hitting stats rose during the month of May compared with April. Of course, you point to the pitching which isnt inaccurate but I also feel it is remiss to overlook the lack of clutch hitting this month. Leaving guys on base is a killer as shown by the game on Tues or Wed.

  • Taskmaster4450

    The BP ranks 8th in the NL in era….that hardly stinks.

    Middle of the road, yes…stinks no.

  • RyanF55

    I agree. It’s not just the run total, but when/where those runs were recorded. It is very surprising how high they rank in runs though, and at the end of the day that’s what’s important. Still, there is no clutch factor which I believe is the difference in a lot of wins/losses for this club.

  • mytoemytoe

    Adding Chris Young and Granderson to the line up has been an absolute killer in terms of strikeouts. You combine tons of strikeouts with the inability to make contract in the back of the lineup and you get a line-up that relies solely on the ability to draw walks and occasionally get some extra base hits.

    Thank whatever for Lagares or the Mets would be completely sunk already. Alderson has done a butcher of a job building this offense.

  • goorru

    Saying the Mets are 5th in the NL is very misleading. They are 20th in the majors in runs scored and only 7 runs ahead of the 26th place team or 12th place team in the NL. Considering the Mets have had days where they have scored 12 and 9 runs against the Yankees the offense IS still part of the problem.

    The Mets are tied for third in the Majors with with 30 quality starts and the bullpen ERA is slightly below NL average at 3.67.

    I think what you did was prove has stats can be twisted and altered to make your argument sound better. Saying the Mets are 5th in the NL in runs sounds good but when you say they’re 20th in the majors in runs scored it doesn’t sound so good.

  • MetsfanInParadise

    You are the second columnist this week to suggest the offense has been adequate, and once again I beg to differ. When you subtract the 40 runs the Mets scored in 4 games (9 in Arizona, 10 in a loss in Colorado, and the 2 games in Yankee Stadium) their runs-per-game for the other 42 is 3.45. That’s just plain inadequate. One quarter of a season is still a small enough sample size that a few good games can skew the numbers, just as a 4-hit game can send a batting average up 70 points early in the season. This is even more obvious when you consider the home/road splits: On the road the Mets have scored 109 runs (4.95 per game) and allowed 103 (4.68), which explains their .500 record, though when you subtract those same 4 games they score just 3.83, on average, and allow 4.33. At home it’s even more glaring-they’ve allowed 95 runs in 24 games (3.95) but scored only 76 (3.17). In summary: outside those 4 games they allow .5 more runs than they score per game on the road, and .78 more at home. Since those 4 games represent less than 10% of the games they’ve played, the conclusion is that their offense is inadequate 90% of the time. Hopefully that will change as Flores, Lagares and Campbell see regular playing time, and as Grandy and Wright come on strong. But so far the offense has been mostly poor.

  • mytoemytoe

    Great post. Just another reason you can’t trust small sample sizes. You have to look at tangible things, like Juan Lagares’ ability to poke the ball the other way with two strikes, or Chris Young’s dopey mistakes in the field.

  • Not4

    Thanks Joe. While we are not 100% in agreement, we are definitely on the same page. Early in the season, a few really good outings for hitters and a few really bad outings for pitchers can skew stats – which underscores the problem with small sample sizes. With the Mets’ hitting, those couple of good outings explain the anomaly – both statistically and why all our eyes tell us this has not been a good hitting team by any stretch of the imagination.

    But as the composition of this team (hopefully) changes – Lagares playing full time; Flore playing full time; Campbell getting more ABs – and hitters start producing more like the back of their baseball card tells us they will perform like Grandy has done in May and Wright sorely needs to do, I think the overall offense will improve and we will score our fair share of runs. If Flores and d’Arnaud both perform at the MLB level the way they performed in the minors, then we are looking at a pretty strong lineup, even without a true cleanup hitter or leadoff hitter (I shot you an email earlier with an idea for a Fan Shot).

  • RyanF55

    Totally agree. A Run vs an RBI is a big difference.

  • RyanF55

    I think both arguments are too early to provide evidence for honestly. The Mets being 5th in runs is misleading when their 20th in runs scored.

  • RyanF55

    Well said. I just don’t see this offense as anything near adequate. I do believe the addition of Flores, improvements by Granderson and hopefully any production from LF will improve things, but the offense has been bad this year.

  • Dark HelMet

    tl;dr If you delete the thing that happened, you get a new fake number!

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    “The simple fact is that its tough for anyone to hit in Citi Field. Especially in the cooler months of April and May.”–Destry

    Tell that to the OPPOSING TEAMS!!!! They dont seem to have ANY problems hitting here in Citi Field.

    Take a look at the stats that I researched below….IT SAYS IT ALL!

    Opposing Teams at Citi Field:
    .247AVG..324 OBP, .390SLG, .714OPS, 22HR

    Ranked 4th BA in the NL at Citi Field
    Ranked 3rd OBP in the NL at Citi Field
    Ranked 4th SLG in the NL at Citi Field
    Ranked 3rd OPS in the NL at Citi Field
    Ranked 7th HR totals in the NL at Citi Field

    Not so good for the Mets at home though

    New York Mets at Citi Field:
    .213AVG, .289OBP, .325SLG, .614OPS, 16HR

    Ranked 15th lowest(LAST) in BA in the NL at Citi Field
    Ranked 15th (LAST) in OBP in the NL at Citi Field
    Ranked 15th (LAST) in SLG in the NL at Citi Field
    Ranked 15th (LAST) in OPS in the NL at Citi Field
    Ranked 14th(2nd to LAST) in HR totals in the NL at Citi Field

    STATS DONT LIE! Its not Citi Filed its the PLAYERS who play there.

  • MetsfanInParadise

    That makes no sense. My point is that the offense has been mostly inconsistent and given the small sample size a few outliers skew the average into something that isn’t representative of what’s happening most of the time.

  • Destry

    Exactly. Because our pitching has been under performing

  • MetsfanInParadise

    The problem is that people like to cherry-pick the numbers that support their premise, without considering the context.

  • Joey D.

    Hi mytoemytoe,
    Thanks so much.
    I’m glad it was written a few days ago and was just a matter of cutting and pasting. LOL Would have hated having to go through all that research once more!

  • MetsfanInParadise

    Again you’re ignoring the stats that don’t support you. The hitting is underperforming by a greater extent than the pitching is underperforming.

  • Destry

    If you’re going to remove their top 4 scoring games, you should remove the bottom 4 also. It’s pretty easy to make an argument when you remove evidence that counters it

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    Its NOT the pitching its the HITTING under performing.

    We are DEAD LAST in the NL in almost EVERY hitting category. Thats not the pitchers fault. Citi is NOT the toughest park to hit in the NL.

    We just have some really bad hitters. And you are blaming the pitchers for the inefficiency of the hitters. While also using the stadium as a crutch for the hitters.

    Our pitching is our only strong point. You have things backwards

  • Joe

    Last night, Terry Collins made all the right moves. And, what a surprise, we won at Citi Field against one of the best starting pitchers in baseball.

    It’s really not rocket science. Just play who’s going to give you the best opportunity to win. Stop playing both Chris and Eric Young. Stop playing Tejada. Play Lagares everyday. Have Mejia close games. These are your best options. Just execute them…

  • TheMets philosophy

    WOW! Adam Rubin reports Gov. Christie would ‘love’ to be Mets GM. Saying “if Sandy would. pack his crap in boxes i would love to come in and take over NOW” i

  • Destry

    I didn’t cherry pick any numbers. I used them all. Cherry picking would be to remove all the games in which they scored the most runs and say the new number is reality

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    What winning team do you know that has ever had a team BA of .213, .289 OBP,.325SLG,at HOME????

    Dude our OPS is .614!!!! Almost in the .500’s!!!! 0_o

  • Destry

    The AL uses a DHL every night.

  • Bail4Nails

    Great post. Thank you for clarifying what we all suspected was wrong with this Offense.
    The Mets have been terrible in the Clutch. However, the addition of Lagares, Flores, and Campbell to the EVERYDAY Lineup should help those Numbers. These guys seem to care more about getting a Hit, than “working a Strikeout”.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    Sign me up for anyone NOT NAMED Alderson, Depo, Ricciardi, Ricco or Wilpon.

    I think Sandy is so bad I might take terrible Amaro over him

  • TheMets philosophy

    I love this we should get him to write a post for MMO! He also said “the mets are impossible to watch” talking about a game he was watching this past week.

  • goorru

    The Mets are only 7 runs ahead of the 12th place team in the NL in runs scored. That is clearly similar at this point in the year. So a team that has been shut out 6 of 46 games doesn’t have a hitting problem?

  • Mikey

    Classic case of Lets ignore half the league to make the rankings look much better!
    Well the Mets are 7th in RS in the NL…A League that consists of a total of 15 teams!
    They are 19th in the MLB ….
    16th in the league in RBI
    24th in Hits
    23rd in OBP

    About the only thing they TRULY lead the league in is Strikeouts where they are 4th in the League in total Stikeouts.

  • Joey D.

    Hi mytoemytoe,
    Yes, David is one player who definitely should not be dragged into the mud as he so often is.
    One has to really admire David this season. Look at what he has actually been able to still accomplish while his swing and timing is not allowing his bat to meet the ball in the manner and authority we are used to seeing. While others would create a hole in the lineup with an overall slump drop in batting and becoming a near automatic out, David has been still getting his hits, he is just not getting his extra base hits.
    Would rather see a batter still get his singles than to be hitting close to the Mendoza line when struggling at the plate anytime.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    I didnt say anything about Wright other than his defense at 3B has been horrible.

    This is why im so hard on Wright…I mention his name to give fair criticism and guys and gals jump all over me as if I said he sucked as bad as EY.

    To be honest while Wrights stats outside of the power numbers look OK he has beed bad offensively. Thats not to say he wont turn it around, but facts remain he has been bad and he has looked way worst than he stats show. You know it and I know it.

    I think he will turn things around at some point but he wont be anything special. I expect 300avg, 18HR, 70-80RBIs thats not what you pay 20mil per year for but thats a whole other story.

  • Mikey

    On then remove 4 shutouts…Still one shutout left isn’t there?

  • Frank Francisco

    I heard that interview on the radio and it sounded like he was joking around.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    Lets be honest Task the bullpen has stunk…theyve only just turned things around

  • Destry

    I don’t think it makes sense to compare with the AL as they have a DHL in the lineup most every night. Look at last years top offenses or any year for that matter

  • Mikey

    So what? Makes no real difference whatsoever

  • RyanF55

    I can’t grasp why it’s so difficult for him to do that. Play the best players you have to win, don’t structure your lineup in the order of salary or years in the league. That’s been a huge issue for this team for years.

  • Destry

    Why are we so quick to throw out the games at Yankee Stadium, but the following shutouts stay?

  • goorru

    2 left

  • Destry

    Why would you compare them to teams that have an additional hitter in the lineup each night? The DH makes a huge difference

  • Destry

    11th in ERA in the NL. 5th in runs scored per game

  • Destry

    Disagree. How do you explain 11th out of 15 teams in the NL?

  • goorru

    The series in Yankee stadium was an anomaly. Being shut out 6 of 46 games is not.

  • Destry

    We scored just as many runs in Arizona and Colorado. Should we throw those out too, and keep all shutouts?

  • Bobby O

    I concur especially with RISP and 2 out. I think the Giants have scored approx. half of their runs when there was 2 out. I think the offense in general is going to improve now with the warmer , less windy weather at home. Grandy seems on the ball now, Wilmer will help although I would like to see at least some gap power from him. David has got to start hitting some HR and hopefully Travis after his rehab stint will start showing better with the stick.

  • mr mojo risin

    does Pittsburgh know they’re in last place ?

  • Destry

    Still 9 run out burst in Arizona

  • Mikey

    Because that additional hitter at best contributes one hit per game and is really only different for the first 4 innings of a game…
    After that the NL usually Pinch Hits for a Pitcher as well…The only difference is they don’t burn up bench as fast as the NL does.
    besides with Interleague play every day the DH is less and less a contributor because they are playing in an NL park where there is no DH.

  • bostongregg

    Wow…..I really have to question my own eyesight, because it has seemed to me that other than a few (too few, in fact) outlier games the Mets offense has been epically bad…..I also thought that the sun came up in the east (which seemed equally obvious) , but I’ll also have to question that as well.

  • Destry

    Ok. Let’s remove our pitcher batting stats and replace them with big Papi. Think that would make a difference?

  • Joey D.

    Hi DrD,
    DHL? Does that mean American League players get their airline tickets for upcoming road trips while in the on deck circle?

  • Mikey

    I guess you missed my post where I counted the games and found 29 games with 4 runs scored or less….
    only 16 with 5 runs or more scored…

    All your really doing is using an Average to hide a flaw…

    Like telling your parents Hey Dad I’m a B student despite the fact you failed Math but got an A in english to juice up the average!

  • RyanF55

    I just can’t claim the offense is “getting it done” looking at the stats below. Runs per game is an exception to the rule.

    4th in Strikeouts: 408
    28th in Extra Base Hits: 116
    27th in ABs per Home Run: 49.6
    28th in AVG: .234
    23rd in OBP: .305
    29th in SLG: .351
    29th in OPS: .657
    17th in RBI: 177
    29th in Total Bases: 556
    27th in HR: 32
    25th in 3B: 6
    19th in 2B; 78
    25th in Hits: 350
    20th in Runs: 185

    How is this a solid offense?

  • Destry

    8 of 15 is average. What about the starters?

  • goorru

    This is where averages are skewed by large numbers that are not the norm.

  • Destry

    Our starting pitching has too

  • Destry

    Ha. Sorry. DH.

  • RyanF55

    Because obviously any team can hit there. It’s worse than Colorado. The Mets came back down to Earth immediately following that series. What they did there is not indicative of who they are.

  • RyanF55

    Both stadiums, like Yankee, are hitters parks.

  • Destry

    Ok. Our offense sucks. You’re missing the point a bit. Our pitching has been worse

  • Destry

    Citi. Is a pitchers park

  • Destry

    You can’t disregard all the games in which they scored a lot of runs, unless you’re going to also disregard the games in which they got shutout

  • RyanF55

    This isn’t comparing anything to the AL…it’s just the stat lines in those situations.

  • Destry

    Our pitcher s a 3 for 50 something. Don’t be silly

  • I didn’t think things could get worse. I guess they could.

  • Destry

    You are comparing them against teams that use a DH every night. Appleso and oranges offensively unless you want to subtract the 3 for 50ish our pitchers have hit this season

  • Destry

    It doesn’t matter how they’very scor ed the runs. The fact is that they HAVE scored them. They’ve scored enough to win if our pitching wasn’t 11th of 15 teams in the NL

  • Mikey

    Did Minnesota use a DH last night?

    No they didn’t did they? So much for the use a DH every night!
    Your excuse is so 4 years ago and no longer applies now that Interleague games are played every day!

  • Mikey

    And what are our Pinch Hitters? How many PAs do they have?
    Your excuse lives in the 4 years ago and no longer is valid!

    Minnesota didn’t have a DH last night did they?
    POOF goes the extra hitter every game excuse!

  • Destry

    Look up offensive statistics for the last 50 years. The AL teams and the Rockies will be in the top 10 every year

  • Destry

    I bet you thought our pitching has been good also. It hasnt

  • Mikey

    Explain it?

    Simple STAT MANIPULATION!

    Lets get rid of half the league to jump the ranking number to be half of what it really is!

  • Destry

    Take time to do a bit of research.

  • mr mojo risin

    Well, it’s good to know that some of our hitters can be productive at times. I think there have been an equal number of games where we could either blame the offense or pitching/defense. Any offense that we’ve mustered has obviously been lacking in power, and its always frustrating to see runners stranded when they’re in scoring position with 1 or Zero outs. Those situations seem to leave more of an impression on the memory.
    I did some number crunching myself, and it seems we’ve been victimized by absolutely terrible non-existent production by a few culprits. Actually 40% of our PA’s were taken by guys with an OPS lower than .650 (I believe League OPS is around .720)
    That is not even including the pitchers, who if added would raise that to 43%.

  • Destry

    Guys. You are missing the point a bit. I’m not saying our offense is good. It’s not. I’m saying our pitching has been bad when compared to the rest of the NL. It was supposed to be our strength. It’s not. The offense has scored enough runs to be successful if our pitching hadn’t underperformed.

  • Mikey

    Oh please…It most certainly has not!
    niese and Gee both have ERAs under 3
    Colon despite his 5 ERA which was the product of two bad games has been great or good the other 5!
    Wheeler has sucked granted and mejia was lights out 1st and 2nd time through the order but gave up runs in later…Still has a better ERA than Wheeler the Sandy Darling!

  • Joey D.

    Hi Not4,

    Thanks for getting back.

    Yes, we are on the same page and that is why even if we have some disagreements, putting together a “brain trust” that relies less on stats they read but the stats they compose in their head based on longer sample sizes would definitely help this club as much as the infusion of more good hitters.

    I hope you are right with the additions of the young bats but we can only wait and see. But we are on the same page – they need to play everyday to accomplish this. None of this rewarding one for having a good game. If Flores has a couple of games where he is pressing, don’t add to his pressing by taking him out of the lineup so quickly and if that continues, then do it for a single game, not a small vacation where he can look at the fans in the stands from the bench. That stuff with Lagares – considering the asset he brings with his glove alone – I just don’t get at all.

    And that does not mean just 2014 if they produce less than what is expected of them. It takes time to grow. That is why a “rebuilding” plan has to either include players from the outside or that one has to accept that it takes more than three years to accomplish if depending upon mainly youth. Being called up doesn’t mean they are ready to make major contributions. One has to add a few more years on projecting the team coming back to contention, Sandy, not selling a target date of perhaps a year after their call up for everything to fall into place.

    I do not think it was that Sandy gambled on so many youngsters coming through so quickly though we know he had no other choice; I believe even with his limited understanding he understood that announcing a plan in which 2014 was a targeted date for the team to get back to being a competitor was being unrealistic but tried conning the fans and now understands the spin job is no longer working. Maybe that explains the moves we see this season with the misuse of Lagares and Flores for the likes of Eric and Chris Young and Miguel Tejada and the great experiment of three first basemen. Now he’s gambling that other established but over the hill players can perhaps have one more bit of fight left in them to produce a semblance of a good team.

    Notice no benching d’Arnaud? Nor is there talk about Wheeler’s status in the rotation? Though the correct moves for one trying to develop a young team, these are the big prospects that he traded for and promoted as his “plan” so they are allowed to play everyday along with Tejada who was his solution for Reyes who had “walked”. Why not so for Lagares, Flores and even Campbell? Because they’re not his guys? Organizational politics?

  • Mikey

    They don’t play the game the same way they did the last 50 years it is time to UPDATE the formula in your damn SPREADSHEET!
    There is Interleague play EVERYDAY where before there was NONE!

    Catch up to the MLB and Statistical analysis of the year 2015!
    Your old antiquated excuses no longer apply to the metric equations!

  • mets4lyfe

    The Mets have scored 2.75 runs in their last 8 games and scored 3.6 (includes the 10-run game in Colorado) runs per game before their two games at Yankee stadium.

    Mets averaged 10.5 runs at Yankee stadium and 5.5 runs at Colorado. In other words, the offense is still a problem.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Destry,

    I thought that was DrD who said that. My goof too?

  • RyanF55

    They had 4 games where they scored “a lot.” Take those out and go ahead and take 4 shut outs out and average again. I’d bet its bad.

  • Bobby O

    I concur. Both Colon and Wheeler were supposed to be better and more stable than what they’ve shown so far.

  • RyanF55

    Inter league play is year round, everyday.

  • Mikey

    I have…You however are relying on 50 year out of date data!

    There was no interleague 50 years ago…
    There is NOW!
    Your excuse no longer applies….
    Your Data has gone past it’s expiration date!

  • RyanF55

    I’m not defending the pitching, never have and i agree it’s been underachieving like everything on the team. It doesn’t mean the offense is doing well enough either though. Your argument is that the pitching is the bigger issue, and I disagree.

  • RyanF55

    Exactly…we only it in bandboxes and kick hit a lick anywhere else.

  • Destry

    Colon, Mejia, Montero, Wheeler all with 5+ ERAs. The starters have been brutal

  • Destry

    How many? 10-12? Half of those games are at home. We will use a DH in 8 games this season. You are way off. AL teams will use DH 155 games

  • Destry

    Why can’t we pitch at home then? That’s the whole point. Our offense sucks but the pitching sucks worse

  • Ron T

    Don’t forget to add in the pathetic loser for a manager. They say managers don’t lose ballgames. Terry indeed does. Flip our record by 5 from his stupid misplays. Oh, and Matt Harvey….remember him? He’s not pitching right now but when he went down he was top 5 in baseball. I”m not worried about the runs…it’s how we get them that defies the logic. Check the unearned run category. We do get alot of them.

  • Destry

    Do you know how many games we use a DH this year?

  • Destry

    Focus on pitching for a second

  • Destry

    Colon 5 Era Mejia 5 Era Wheeler nearly 5 Era Montero 6 era

  • goorru

    The Mets starters are tied for third in all the Majors with 30 Quality starts.

  • Not4

    Well said all. I just don’t know what to make of some of Sandy’s moves. (I’m sure some Sandy-Haters will jump in and help out here). I also don’t know whether he is applying a double standard to his guys or not, as I just don’t know how much of the day to day is coming from him vs. Collins.

    Without having any inside information into the matter, I would think that most of the day-to-day decisions come from Collins. So that begs the question you asked – why are Alderson’s guys getting more slack than others? One answer can be as you suggest that Alderson has mandated it. Another, equally plausible one (to me at least) is as follows. Collins is attracted to certain skill sets like a kid is attracted to a shiny new penny. As has been discussed ad nauseam, Collins infatuation with speed explains why he has given the nod far too often to EY over Lagares. Alderson clearly gave Collin a mandate that CY must be played a certain amount of time, but rather than bench EY, he benches Lagares as part of his plan (which I think Alderson signed off on) to spread ABs around all three. Based upon some of Alderson’s recent comments, I don’t think he envisioned Collins doing what he has done.

    As for Wheeler, there is no denying his stuff. And common sense would dictate that you give time for a kid like that to develop. Of course, Collins and common sense don’t exactly mix. But Wheeler is another shiny penny to Collins. It is not hard for him, or any other manager, to fall in love with his stuff. So I think that explains Wheeler more than anything else. As for d’Arnaud, what other option would he have? Cannot play Recher on a consistent basis. I think that is simply a matter of lack of options. Lastly, I don’t get the Flores/Tejada thing. But that too reeks of Collins trying to use his brain – which given his lack thereof, is a mistake. I love Flores. Think that, if given a true chance, his hitting will make it impossible for the Mets to not find a place for him. But his D at SS was a big question mark, so I can understand why a manager may be hesitant to use him there. That hesitancy should have been thrown out the door when you look at what Tejada has brought (average D with lousy offense) compared to Flores, but who knows what is going on in Collins’ brain? Think Flores’ D has been better than can be expected at SS so far and hoping it will continue like that. He brings limited range and will make some mistakes in the field like he has the past two games.

    So overall, I just don’t know what to make of some players playing and others not.

  • Destry

    You said 20th in runs scored

  • Destry

    Half the league plays in a different league

  • Destry

    Or the small ones, no?

  • Destry

    And we use a DH 8 times this year. An AL team will DH 150+ games

  • goorru

    So if i lose 10-9, 2-1 and 3-2, you would say it’s a good offensive three days because we averaged 4 runs.

  • Destry

    It is

  • goorru

    LOL, but that’s the point the small numbers ARE the norm.

  • Destry

    No. I’m not saying our offense is good. I’m saying our pitching has been terrible and our offense has scored enough runs to have a respectable record if our pitching wasn’t atrocious

  • SD(BK)Mike

    while i agree with you that it doesn’t matter how we score as long as we score its hard to ignore those rankings up there. What that is telling me is that even though we have been scoring it is not because of quality baseball. and when you have rankings like that in nearly every offensive category its extremely difficult to have sustained success.

    guaranteed if our rankings stay like that then our RPG will be on the decline.

  • goorru

    The pitching has potential to be better, the offense does not.

  • Destry

    QS is a bs Stat and should be amended. Scoring is down across the board. What about ERA?

  • Destry

    And Mejia and Montero

  • RyanF55

    No, it isn’t. What are we 5 years old? I agree to disagree. You’re looking at this too early and too narrow. You’re telling me over the course of the year the pitching will be the bigger detriment than the offense? I HIGHLY doubt that with what’s coming down the pipeline.

  • Fast Eddie

    Let’s see…Flores is hot, Soup is hot, Lagares remains hot and Grandy is on an upswing….which means we’ll probably see EY, CY and Tejada in the lineup tonight. Somebody save us…

  • Destry

    The post is more about how bad our pitching has been. The offense is not good, but we have scored enough runs to have a winning record

  • Mikey

    Not anymore it doesn’t!
    Time to catch up to current events and realities!

  • Destry

    What?

  • Destry

    Where do we currently rank in team ERA

  • Anthony

    Are you breaking down sp vs rp ? Our pen has stunk i will grant you that

  • Destry

    Our offense sucks. I’m not debating that. The pitching has been horrible

  • Destry

    I’m not saying the offense is good. I’m saying we’ve scored the 5th most runs per game. I’m also saying that scoring the 5th most runs per game should be good enough for our supposed strong pitching staff to win more games. The pitching gas been worse than we think.

  • Destry

    The starters have been worse

  • Mikey

    HAHAHAHA You really are ridiculous….
    Montero pitched all of 2 games!
    gave up 5 runs to one of the best lineups in baseball!

    Colon’s ERA is inflated by three bad games…(out of 9)
    One where he gave up 9 runs and two others where he gave up 7 runs…
    The other 6 games he gave up 3 runs or less including a shutout of the braves!

    Wheeler has sucked lately…But even when he didn’t (vs Miami 6IP no runs allowed) he got a no decision because that Offense you love didn’t score a SINGLE RUN for him!

    Mejia? Your so out of reality here it isn’t even funny!
    mejia had ONE BAD GAME where he gave up 8 runs (vs Colorado!)
    Another where he gave up 6 runs…
    one more where he gave up 4 runs and the remaining games 2 runs or less including 2 Shutouts!

    I suggest you review your statistical data because your dead wrong here and none of your excuses are holding muster to the actual facts when looked up!

  • goorru

    They put Mejia in the bullpen and deGrom looks like he can be good, we also have Thor in the wings. Colon has been better and Gee will come back and probably replace Montero.

    There are no answers to the offensive problems anywhere in sight.

  • Mikey

    Try focusing for TWO seconds on it…
    Look at the game logs!
    You might see that the ERAs (like the RPG) is inflated due to one or two bad games but for the most part the Pitching has been solid and ruined by a lack of offense!

  • Destry

    Our SP ERA is 12th of 15 teams in the NL. Ahead of only the Rockies, Pirates & D-Backs

  • Mikey

    And how many times will they use a Pinch Hitter?

    Hmmm?

    Waste of time with you you insist on making up your own realities as an excuse for a VERY POOR statistical analysis you made!

    Try watching the games instead of following the stats…
    You might recognize what is wrong with this team!

  • Destry

    Starters 4.06 Era. Ahead of only rockies, Pirates & D back. Good for 12th of 15 NL teams

  • Destry

    12th of 15 in NL among Era for SP. Ahead of only Rockies pirates & dbacks

  • Destry

    Dude. We use a DH 8 games this year. An AL team will use it 155 games. Does that seem the same to you?

  • Destry

    12th of 15 NL teams in SP era

  • Joey D.

    Hi Not4,

    You put it so clearly – it so unclear!

    Probably somewhere in the middle of my organizational politics and TC’s obsession with certain type players. Flores – even if he is not the long-term solution at short because of doubts about his fielding, so what? Neither is Ruben so give Wilmer the chance to both hit and gain more experience at that position. He doesn’t seem afraid of the challenge which is a good one.

    As far as d’Arnaud, yes, give him more time but considering the moves being made with Wilmur and Juan, it would fall in line that Recker would still be sharing more time which is what I think we might have been seeing had Travis had been part of our system or one simply purchased instead of being traded for R.A. d’Arnaud might have even been sent down instead so he would not have to stay on the bench so often.

    With Zach, with him being confused so much, how much of a leach does he still have and if he were somebody else would there already be talk that perhaps being sent down to work that out would be best for him?

    There is one thing that I think we should agree with, whether one is a Sandy supporter, one who mistrusts him totally or is in the middle – by this time we have had enough evidence to know that he is systematic and thus the sticking with some players and not with others can also be reflective with that pattern which works in two ways: Travis and Wheeler stay in (good) but so would CY, Tejada and even Duda (bad).

  • Destry

    Look up the numbers

  • Andrew Herbst

    The problem with our offense is we’ve only had a few games like the 2 games in Yankee Stadium where we scored a lot of runs. Most of the time we’ve been inconsistent.

  • Anthony

    Your picking stats now your arguement is based on run scored an now your discounting quality starts you cant have it both ways

  • Destry

    Mejia blew up in the 5 inning in 3 consecutive srarts.

  • Not4

    Ha! I am all on board for Flores, who has played better than I expected. I want his bat in the lineup every day and as you correctly point out, Tejada can no longer be considered part of our future, or even a viable placeholder.

    Sandy is definitely systematic, but that could cut for or against the argument that he is involved in the decision. Ultimately, we both can also both agree that Lagares and Flores should be playing every day at this point.

  • Mikey

    I did…I even posted them….
    Maybe YOU should look at the Actual numbers and not just AVERAGES!

    Or better yet…Watch a game or two and get your head out from being buried in that spreadsheet you’re using…

  • Mike B

    Actually, the sun doesn’t come up anywhere. The earth rotates and the sun is first exposed to the east. But on games, you’re right. They scored 21 in 2 games vs the Yankees, and 10 twice against CO and AZ. That’s 41 runs in 4 games out of 46. Take those out and substitute with 5 runs, or 20 instead of 41, and they’re 4th from the bottom. I agree their pitching has been so so, with the pen horrible at times. But that seems better, and with CY benched(hopefully) and Flores at SS, things looking up. I think the next thing they consider is benching Lucas Duda more often, or put Campbell there, cut CY and bring up denDekker and use Abreu/EY/DD in left, or Campbell sometimes, and at 1st Campbell/Duda. Duda has to start swinging at fastballs early in the count. I don’t see it. A stat they gave last night was interesting. He’s batting over .400 on 0-1 count, in his entire career, 2nd in all of baseball. The thought was he was so afraid of 0-2, that he focused on 0-1, as he’s hitting .150 on 0-2. My thought was, why let it get to 0-1? Start swinging at 0-0 and you’ll hit better, assuming you only swing at fastballs. This was Ted Wiliams approach. No reason not to follow that.

    I am optimistic going forward, but I think the team needs to be more decisive on playing time.

  • Destry

    So what about replacing Tejada with Flores? Cool conditions at Citi vs summer? David Wright? Grandy hitting .160 for April.

  • Destry

    No. I’m not. We are 12th in starters ERA in NL. Only rockies snakes & pirates are worse

  • willywater88

    If we use selective application of statistics, we can make an argument for nearly any angle we want. If you really want to take away the top 4 games the Mets have scored then the only legitimate comparison would be to take away the top 4 scoring games for the rest of the league as well.

  • MetsfanInParadise

    Then your article title is extremely misleading. The offense HASN’T held up their end of the bargain. Both the pitching and the hitting have been inadequate

  • willywater88

    Lets limit the discussion to NL only because as Destry mentions below, the DH is in effect and as the pitcher is always the worst hitter on his team, the DH is often the best or second best hitter on his team.

    Saying the Mets are 5th make it sound like they are above average which I agree is misleading but 5th out of 15th in the NL still means that there have been 10 teams who produced less runs than them. There is no way you can skew these numbers, that means 10 others teams have looked AT LEAST as pathetic to their fans as the Mets have looked to us.

  • Joey D.

    HI Not4,

    Yup, systematic can work for or against but my own philosophy is that we are all more comfortable in our systems – it is a part of human nature – but we should be flexible to not allow it to close our eyes and ears so it’s not a matter of things occurring because of the system as we see, other things that should also be occurring are not because of it as well.

    The only system I know that works is one that my wife developed which has done wonders for her health. She’s decided to let me worry about everything! 🙂

  • Destry

    They have. They’ve scored the 5th most runs in the NL. Read the last two sentences of the article

  • Destry

    Maybe. But the reason we look at all of these other stats is to figure how we can score runs. We are scoring runs

  • Destry

    I’ve watched every AB of every game

  • As Keith Hernandez constantly clamors: FUNDIES GUYS, FUNDIES!

  • Mikey

    Met Games right?

    If so then by the power invested in me by NY State I declare you legally blind!

  • If you’re 14th out of 15th in batting average and slugging, you’re a bad offense. The othe renumbers are cute, and good supplementary numbers. But if you can’t hit and hit for power?? You’re a bad offense. Walk, steal all your bases you want, but if you can’t hit and hit for power, the runs will dry up and the offense will fall closer to it’s 14th out of 15th reign.

  • BCleveland3381

    A couple of big series in Yankee stadium and Arizona have greatly skewed our total run numbers. We will slide.

  • Not4

    Ha! Sounds familiar. Enjoy the weekend!

  • Destry

    Look you throw out all the bad games our pitchers hAve had and then you remove the games in which our offense scored the most runs to make an argument. If you remove all the outs that Tejada made he’s batting 1.000. Does that make sense to you? That’s about how you sound to me. If you want to look at the number of runs we’ve scored and the number of runs our pitchers have given up considering they are the strength of the team then we can debate. Otherwise we disagree respectfully

  • Mikey

    No but that does seem to be what you did now isn’t it?

  • Andrew Herbst

    Yep. Agreed.

  • Destry

    That was fun metsie. We’ll do it again sometime

  • Joey D.

    Hi Guys,

    On another thread DrDooby suggested that the Mets offense had been undervalued citing how they’re run scoring is still league average. I’m sure the good doctor won’t mind if I repeat my answer here.

    This is again is why we can’t just use stats as a judgement because there are some glaring holes as a team that is undermining the overall run scoring which we see with our eyes. As mentioned in my summary three days ago, we can take stats to make them justify any type cause. I gave an example to make my case before going onto more definitive answers comparing home and road performances. So lets look into deeper observation to show that if we just stand
    still with our hitting as it is, this indeed has already and is going to continuing hindering our ability to score runs.

    Remember over the winter our debate regarding my assertion that
    Duda/Davis at first and CY in left as every day players were going to
    contribute tremendously to the Mets overall inability to hit right handed pitching? This has proven true through the first quarter of the season despite the left handed bats of Murphy and resurgent left handed Granderson in May along with David still able to get base hits though just not for extra bases – all three whom I cited as being the only three valid bats in the Mets lineup to begin with (great surprise with Juan).

    Last year two out of every three games were started by right handed pitching. This season it is three out of every four. As a team, the Mets face right handers for the entire game that same three times as often as opposed to a left hander. They hit just .220 against them with a .294 OBP while against left handed pitching they up that to a solid .276 and .343. But they only bat against left handers 25 percent of the time.

    We obviously cannot cite runs scored and batted in because of too many
    interdependent factors, however, with the majority of plate appearances against right handed pitching, the “probabilities” of creating situations to which they either get on base or come through to drive in runs is greatly diminished and this is what we are seeing quite often.

    And what is also of greater interest is the hitting philosophy. We see that the Mets appear to be better when they attack more often on the first pitch and this I obviously had to go more into stats to “quantify’ what I felt I was observing.

    What I found was their hitting .245 when swinging at the first pitch which is 15 points higher than if they take it. OK, that is not a big difference. But if they take the first pitch and it is a strike, just like I mentioned to Connor, the advantage goes way in favor of the pitcher no matter what the count is after that. Yes, they take the first pitch three out four times and though they hit for a higher average after a 1-0 count, in 1,602 plate appearances when the first pitch does not result in a batted ball, they find themselves ahead of the count only 45% of the time – hence, the pitcher getting the advantage more often than not and the team overall not causing the eventual “damage” that Alderson and Hudgens profess the stats show otherwise.

    Batting average 1-0 count (719 plate appearances): .241

    Batting average 0-1 count (883 plate appearances): .210

    Slugging percentage when taking first pitch (1,330 plate appearances): 339

    Slugging percentage when swinging at first pitch (451 plate appearances): .385

    Home runs when taking first pitch (1,330 plate appearances): 21

    Home runs when swinging at first pitch (451 plate appearances): 11

    Even the ratio of walks is less:

    Walks when taking first pitch (1,330 plate appearances): 110

    Walks when swinging at first pitch (451 plate appearances): 42

    All this because the team is taking that first strike on the outside corner? Well, as I said, stats could be deceiving so I will not use the above to state my case about the two major obstacles that I said were going to – and are – preventing us from winning. Of course, I will not swear by them – there are so many variables of the games between the games that these stats are only good for general reference. But they make a case for what my good old non-cataract
    filled eyeballs see on 1080i up-converted to 1080p high definition television with Ron, Keith and Bobby O’s propaganda coming through in total Dolby Digital sound!

    Oh, BTW – here is something much simpler that kind of shows we have anemic hitting. Since we went 15-11 we have gone 6-14 over 20 games. In ten of those 14 losses, we scored three runs or less (half those games) despite Grandy coming around, David raising his average and Murphy being consistent (the three I mentioned).

    That’s mind boggling when one thinks of it. As I mentioned, stats could be quite deceptive. For the 20 games played in May the Mets average 3.95 runs per games, as you said, about even with the league. Yet half those games they scored three runs or less. And in another two – against the Yankees in that band box known as Yankee Stadium with the advantage of the designated hitter – they scored 21. Take those two away and the Mets average 3.22 per game. Give them the average four runs per game instead of 10.5 and that brings it to 3.30
    per game.

    Remember what I said what a difference two games could make? Still think the Met hitting has been undervalued? Many of us contend the stats simply over-exaggerates it instead.

  • Maxxy

    Wow!! Talk about a clueless analysis. I’m not going to bother going through how wrong you are about so many things. Just one quick point: you think that Rice has gotten his act together? Really? He’s pitched 10 innings and given up 10 hits and 10 walks. That’s two base runners per inning!!! Rice has reverted to the norm…a lifetime minor leaguer.