Is Inexperience to Blame for Inconsistency?

zack wheeler leaves

So much is being said about all the roster moves the Mets have made over the last couple of weeks.  The lineups don’t always reflect them but there has been some movement there is no denying that.  The questions is are the Mets really all-in on this movement?  Are you?

Mike Vorkunov of the Star Ledger writes about how the inexperience of some of the players on the roster can lead to inconsistency.  He also goes on to say that on the current roster, 16 players have spent time in the minor leagues over the past year for one reason or another.  Some of the veteran players, like David Wright, feel that having to rely on the young inexperienced guys could be one of the reasons the team struggles.

“Probably some of it,” he said of the inconsistency. “Especially, up and down the team, we are young. It’s going to be a lot of these guys are learning on the job, where they’re still making adjustments and developing at the major league level. That’s asking a lot of some of these guys. They’re ready for it, but you have to understand there’s going to be some ups and downs through the process. So I think that’s a little part of it.”

Calling a player up too early can be devastating if they don’t enjoy early success. On the other hand it could be exactly what the player/team needs.  Sometimes the fans and media can put too much pressure on a prospect to come in and be a savior. We have all seen and done it. In the end it needs to be taken for what it is, which is a team that has players capable of winning now mixed with many younger guys that are playing for their lives.

“I enjoy it because it brings a lot of excitement and it brings a lot of energy to the table,” Wright said. “But at the same time there’s going to be some inconsistency and kind of a learning curve that comes along with that because we have pitchers, we have position players that are learning on the fly.”

The hope is that they put it all together, become one unit and create the right chemistry, that translates into winning baseball.

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  • Metsaholic

    Oy Vey, What a mess.

  • Schnitzer’s Marble Rye

    Not that Mets pitching has necessarily been lights out, but it’s been “ok” (3.83 team ERA), but I think what’s most to blame for the Mets’ inconsistencies are:

    Granderson’s .620 OPS, Chris Young’s .647 OPS, David Wright nearly 200 points below his career OPS, Ruben Tejada and d’Arnaud OPSing under .600…and of course, Terry Collins.

  • HawkZon

    You mean roster moves like bringing up Flores and Campbell and then not playing them?

  • Metsaholic

    Exactly. It’s just so frustrating that all we (fans) can do is watch. Our warnings seem to be mostly ignored and we don’t seem to have strong voices in the media who really ask hard questions, since so many are concerned with losing “access.” Why bring in CY and Granderson with their history of K’s, low batting and OBP to a notoriously poor HR hitting ballpark? Why not find a veteran catcher for a young pitching staff? Why not make sure to get the best SS available, particularly to improve the defense, if the focus is the teams pitching. Why if ownership is not going to sell the team, why don’t they do everything possible to show they are listening to fan protest and push for better and honest communication from their GM and manager?

  • Metsaholic

    It’s just head shaking.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Wait, wait wait. Are you trying to say that guys like Wheeler haven’t played enough to really expect lights out performances all the time? That they might be going through their normal development?

    Hmmm. Interesting theory.

  • MyasDaddy

    *Terrible Terry Collins

  • Schnitzer’s Marble Rye

    Terryble Collins.

    Sounds very Steve Somers-ish. Haven’t listened to WFAN in a while, wonder if he’s already calling TC that. Hope so.

  • WillisReid

    This team has been much better up to this point compared to last year, but they are way harder to watch.

  • Frank Francisco

    d’Arnaud looks like he could use some more offensive development in Vegas. His approach and confidence seems off. Unfortunately his development-clock is running out of time.

    Wheeler is fine where he is, just needs to make some small adjustments. He isnt getting shelled start after start like many fans are acting like. No point sending him back to Vegas.

    Flores just needs some f*cking playing time.

  • Taskmaster4450

    I agree, TdA could use 100-150 ABs in Vegas to get his swing down.

    Wheeler I am not sure will be fine. He might need another 10-15 starts in Vegas to get his act together.

    And Flores is just stupidity to the nth degree. Sitting Flores for….Tejada…asinine.

  • Pike Miazza

    Wheeler is tipping his breaking stuff

  • chavez06

    Somewhat off topic question: Would you trade Gee or Wheeler and Flores for Kris Bryant from Cubs? Cubs need pitching and they can put Flores at 3B. Mets can play Bryan in RF and gives them a power bat. Ofcourse, Bryan is only in AA, so there is some risk.

  • Frank Francisco

    At least last year we had the resurgence of Byrd, Wright producing, Harvey dazzling, and rookies weren’t regularly being benched for nonproductive veteran deadbeats. The team was bad but that’s what everyone expected.

    Now we have to watch a team with potential that it doesn’t live up to with guys like Wright, Chris Young, Granderson, d’Arnaud all underperforming, AAAA players in Duda and Tejada… Even those exceeding expectations aren’t flashy and exciting to watch (Gee, Niese, and Murphy)

    There is no star power left on this team. No one exciting. Except in Lagares who rides the pine for no apparent reason.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    No. Not with him at AA. Lots can happen between now and then. Huge risk.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Who cares about star power? I want wins.

    With all those guys under-performing AND they’re only four games out, doesn’t that give you reason for optimism rather than pessimism?

  • TPT

    we got a guy who will be in AA soon and his name is Nimmo and he doesnt cost us a starter and a great hitting prospect

  • jaygreen55

    Mets already have an overcrowded outfield. The need is at shortstop and 1st base. I also wouldn’t trade Gee until after the season. The kids are unproven and have innings limits. Niese has never pitched 200 innings, Colon is 41 and needed time on the DL last year. Gee is the only pitcher on the staff that can be counted on to come close to 200 innings provided he heals quickly from his lat strain

  • chavez06

    Nimmo is in A+. He doesn’t have anywhere near the power potential of Bryant, who could be a legit #4 hitter. Nimmo would be a great lead-off hitter, which is also something we’re sorely lacking. THere’s room for both Bryant and Nimmo … Nimmo, Lagares, and Bryan from left to right. By the time Nimmo gets to NYC (2016 or 2017), Granderson will have declined and the Mets just have to eat his contract and move him.

  • TPT

    my question is just who are the young inexperienced kids up and down the team that DW speaks of …TDA is the only starter i can think of??? and our young pitchers haven’t hurt us they’ve been our strength so huh?

  • upandadam

    “16 players have spent time in the minor leagues over the past year for one reason or another”

    Keep in mind DW is 31, so most of the team is younger than him. They may not be “kids” in your mind, but may be in his just because he’s been around for a while.

  • chavez06

    We have plenty of bodies to play in the outfield, but other than Lagares, we don’t have legit first division starter. I guess Granderson is, if he can regain some of his form from couple of years ago. Nonetheless, Grandy will be part of this team and will be starter for at least thru next year given his contract. What Bryant does is (assuming he develops) is give the Mets another legit starter and a clean-up hitter. Yes, SS is a hole, but if you upgrade other positions, then you can carry weak bat at SS, as long as you get good defense. Mets have Wilfredo Tovar in the system, who btw is hitting over .300 in AAA.

  • mets4lyfe

    Bryant has plus-plus power, good eye at the plate, and he’s a very good athlete. Plus, he’s already putting up a 1.000+ OPS at AA at only 22 years-old.

    It’s going to take more than Wheeler + Flores to get him.

    He’s another Giancarlo Stanton.

  • Chris H

    TDA should also be moved up in the lineup. Try him 2nd and move everyone else down 1. Travis doesn’t have that much plate discipline and batting him 7th or 8th isn’t working. Let him see more pitches to hit.

  • upandadam

    Uhhhh, I’d trade all three of them to get him. Hahaha

  • TPT

    but you just dont trade starters and a Flores for a unproven AA player thats crazy also we have Puello who can be a good one but like Bryant you have no clue till he plays in the majors

  • chavez06

    He’s still unproven. Flores had great #s in AA and AAA also. Plus in Gee they’re getting a proven MLB starter.

  • upandadam

    Sandy could definitely try to convince them of that, but it’s going to fall on deaf ears. Gee is not top of the rotation material, and Flores has no position. Only real blue chipper is Wheeler, and he’s still relatively unproven, although he’s obviously farther along than Bryant is.

  • TPT

    ummmm Byrant is not being given away and to give up a premium starter about to enter his prime years and if thats not enough A FLORES as well for a guy not even in AAA? is just plain crazy

  • chavez06

    Just so its clear, I wasn’t saying Gee AND Wheeler. Only one of the two AND Flroes.

  • muskytoes

    He’s probably as untouchable as a prospect can be for the Cubs. They’re not trading last year’s #2 overall pick. He’s done nothing but rake in the Fall League and AA so far. Wouldn’t shock me to see the Cubs promote him to the majors in the 2nd half if Mike Olt keeps giving them Grandy numbers.

    Now Mike Olt for the Mets OF would be intriguing.

  • Andrew Herbst

    I think DW is talking about guys like TDA.

  • Metropolitan

    “Unfortunately his development-clock is running out of time.”

    Ya think..

    He is not a rushed product he is supposed to be a finished one ,he is not one of those guys rushed up to the bigs at 20 or 21,he should have had enough seasoning ,either he sinks or swim now.Me I think he is a bust and even if I turn out to be wrong about that he is too fragile to play catcher that is for sure.

  • chavez06

    We don’t need another Olt. We already have too many K kings batting under .200

  • EzRider

    He could be talking about some of the young pitching also. Wheeler, Mejia(some) Familia, Black (not here now) and Edgin to a certain extent. I think Wheeler and d’Arnaud are the main ones though. He could also be talking about some of the ups and downs of Lagares at the plate. Even folks along the lines of Flores and Kirk.

  • Joey D.

    Hi John,
    I agree that the inexperience of those like Wheeler and d’Arnaud are indeed hurting this club and of course that should not be held against them and neither should it mean giving up on them as well. It means them sticking it out in the majors as they go through their growing pains as we find out whether or not they do have what it takes to meet the expectations predicted for them, to still have fine careers nevertheless or that they are just not cut out to be stars. Though we have to see what happens with the bat long-term, I don’t think Lagares could be considered hurting us by inexperience by any stretch of the imagination, even if his bat is cooling off.
    This is not a problem that arises when a certain influx of youth struggles If the rest of the team consists of good veteran players – not Chris Young or an Eric Young and younger but experienced players not like Lucas Duda or Ruben Tejada along with a bullpen that started out with the likes of Lannen, Farnsworth and Valverde. The inconsistencies caused by the inexperience of even these two players would be minimalized. Certainly, our young pitching arms are doing their share so their inexperience thus far has not been hurting us.
    So I do not believe this team is struggling because of the inexperience of the aforementioned Wheeler and d’Arnaud. They are struggling because of the team that was assembled prior to them.

  • TPT

    substract the pitchers from your equation and what do have? EY CY GRANDY TEJADA DUDA MURPHY ABREU RECKER i dont see these guys as young and inexperienced..and other than TDA the real kids like Flores and Campbell watch not play

  • chavez06

    Flores does have a position… 3B. He’s got good hands and a good arm … just doesn’t have the range to be a middle infielder.

  • TexasGusCC

    Two points:
    1. How do you think Wright feels about being in a lineup of unmotivated and underproducing players that the manager cannot get going?
    2. While inexperienced players are inconsistent, they produce more often than not (therefore inconsistent) the faster they get experience the faster the talent shows. Does he not want to see the talented players like Flores, Legares, TDA and Campbell start producing more regularly? Does he see EY and Tejada improving?

  • TPT

    he just AA player until he proves himself at the major league level..

  • NewYorkMammoths

    This is giving me PMS.

  • muskytoes

    Let’s see, there’s CY, Abreu, Dice K who’ve spent time in Vegas. They don’t fit the bill. Flores and Soup don’t play, so their inexperience can’t be blamed for anything. Montero, Edgin, deGrom and Centeno just got here and have done well enough so far, so they’re not the cause of any team inconsistency.

    Who are the 8 guys on the current roster that I’m missing? How far back does “past year” go? What’s he talking about?

  • TPT

    hes not even in AAA yet hes two steps away from the majors and you have no clue what he’ll do in AAA you know how prospects dont make it as compared to how many do?? nope i would never do that trade until hes at least in AAA

  • upandadam

    He never specified that he was talking about starters only. In fact, he said up and down the TEAM had players who spent time in the minors, like it says in the quote i took from the article. Of the Mets current 25 man roster, here are players that spent time in the minor last year:
    DeGrom, Edgin, Familila, Mejia, Montero, Carlos Torres (Spent half the year there), Wheeler, Centeno, Cambell, Duda, Flores, Tejada, Lagares. Add TDA, whos on the DL right now, and that’s 14 out of 26.

  • Arjun Vidudala

    “[Young] made a mistake,” Mets manager Terry Collins said. “He knows it.
    We’re not going to dwell on it. The guy is a max-effort guy. That’s the
    only way he plays. He plays hard and goes after it. If he catches it,
    he gets a standing ovation.” LMAO TC defending EY Jr. on his botched catch that allowed an extra run in Montero’s start

  • MetsFanSantaMonica

    Funny – but the inconsistency is from the more experienced players. The younger players have for the most part performed well.

  • mad met

    Very simple and the front office just does not get it. We as fans know this team is not going any where this year, but we have a bright future very soon. So knowing this we want to see our young talent and hope to win some games .. If we don’t play Juan tda or centeno Flores and even duda or Campbell we won’t know what we have and what we really need going forward. I want see see Flores in the line up because we need to see his major league bat regardless of what position and I’m willing to sacrifice a small amount of offense to do that

  • TheTruthStings

    Nimmo has average speed and isn’t a stolen base threat. To be a truly successful leadoff man, you need to intimidate with speed. He needs to be a guy with the speed to get home on most singles and to 3rd base on singles up the middle or behind him

  • muskytoes

    Meanwhile, Wally must be thinking “hmm, they keep shuffling my roster, too, taking my top talent, giving me their crap, and I led my team to the playoffs last year and have been dominating the league so far this season.”

  • chavez06

    Flores would’ve been a blue chip prospect if Mets had just play third. Instead, he now has this label as someone who can’t play the field. The kid can play 3B. He’s just not fast. And he’s not been given enough time in the Majors, but has proved himself in high minors.

  • muskytoes

    If DW feels he’s surrounded by a bunch of unmotivated, underproducting players with a bad manager, I’d love to hear him express it publically. That would be like Christmas in May for Mets fans. He’d get standing O’s everytime up for the rest of the season.

  • chavez06

    Nimmo’s got good speed, but not explosive like EYJr. But he has a tremendous eye at the plate and pretty good hit toos to get on base. Is Choo a good lead-off hitter? Toby Hyde, who’s seen Nimmo quite a bit, recently said he’ll be a rangier OFer than Choo.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Chavez,
    All well and good but what about once Nimmo and Bryan get here? As we see with the highly touted d’Arnaud and Wheeler, one does not often make the jump from the minors and becomes a success like a Trout, Harper or past ROYs. So we need to add another year or so past their call ups before their feet are wet which can make it perhaps 2017 or 2018.
    That’s a long time a’coming. How old will Gee and Niese be a that time, let alone Wright and Murphy? Ah, can’t you see it now, in a few years well all be talking about our 2015 and 2016 draft picks and just having to be patient just a little bit longer. 🙂

  • muskytoes

    I’d love to see Flores given a shot at 1B. I think his time this spring at St Lucie and Vegas would’ve been better served if he was learning that position. Of course, that would be assuming the FO did their freakin job this winter and cleared all the crap out of the way instead of hoarding it and bringing it back.

  • muskytoes

    True, but I’d rather pay Olt $500K for his production than Grandy $15M and CY $7M for theirs.

  • TPT

    “But at the same time there’s going to be some inconsistency and kind of a learning curve that comes along with that because we have pitchers, we have position players that are learning on the fly.”THIS IS WHAT HE SAID so which position players other than TDA does he speak of?and DeGrom, Edgin, Familila, Mejia, Montero, Carlos Torres are not going through any learning pro cess thats effecting this team in fact they have stabilized the pen and rotation and i havent seen a ” up and down” from any of them like i did with the vets Valverde and Farnsworth and Tejada and Duda?? what?they been on this team going on 4 years that hilarious actually and Lagares? has he been inconsistent?? the problem with this team is with EY GRANDY CY AND THE CAPTAIN HIMSELF im afraid

  • chavez06

    I’d have loved to see that as well. People say his bat is not good enough, but honestly I think he’s a better hitter than Duda.

  • DrDooby

    This is why 2014 is a “transition” season and why players like Lagares, Flores, d´Arnaud, Wheeler, Montero, DeGrom, Familia and Mejia should get an extended look and LOTS of playing time. There´s no reason to play fringy veterans ahead of them. They have to play. Whether that leads to 90 wins remains to be seen – as unlikely as it might be. Winning should still be a priority – but not at the cost of not playing the kids that will be of far more importance to 2015+ success than what a 1-year stopgap or players we know at best qualify for complementary roles.

  • muskytoes

    No one knows if Flores is the real deal offensively yet. This kid’s been our top position prospect forever now. The Mets have touted him since he was 16, and he’s proven himself at every level so far. They forced him to re-try an abandoned position, which smacked of FO panic and cluelessness, but as long as they were doing it and rolling out the red carpet for him to get a legitimate look with the Mets, all we could do was hope for the best right? So now he’s called up, the stage is set, the spotlight’s on, and… he sits.

    Only the Mets.

  • TPT

    ‘WE HAVE POSITION PLAYERS LEARNING ON THE FLY” so ok our position players who are playing are EY MURPHY DW GRANDY CY DUDA TDA TEJEDA..and LAGARES (when he plays and he happens to be our best outfielder if not our best player over all) Tejada and Duda are going on their 4th season with the Mets and Flores and Campbell dont play and the little bit that they have they done well… so other than TDA who are the position players he speaks off?

  • chavez06

    Hi Joey D.,
    My point about Nimmo is that he’s good (potentially), but too far down the road. I’m with you that we’ve got to start thinking about winning NOW starting next year. I think Bryant could be a starter in the majors by next year (who’s 22 and doing well in AA and could be promoted to AAA soon with a late season call-up). Of course there is risk in counting on younger players. But unfortunately, we don’t have the payroll flexibility (at least yet) to go after proven players at every position like the Yankees. So have to roll the dice somewhat. I think a rotation of Harvey, Synder, Niese, Gee, & deGrom; a pen of Mejia, Parnell, Familia, etc; and line-up of Lagares, Murphy, Wright, Bryant, Grandy, Duda, d’Arnaud, and Tovar can be exciting.

  • Lotus1209

    Bryant is a 3bman. We already have a player like him in Flores (IE smaller offensive upside) we dont need him. A player like Baez i’d consider but only if the offer is right.

    I’d actually look into acquiring Starlin… given their pitching scenario id give them Montero + Degrom or Wheeler for him.

  • WilponsNeed2Go

    The only thing that is inconsistent about the young players is their playing time.

  • Lotus1209

    and theyre STILL not squaring it up when they know its coming. Imagine when they dont know its coming?

    Honestly I’m one of the few that still believes Wheeler has that Ace ceiling… but it wont come within the next year or so. He takes a bit longer to figure it out than say a Harvey or a Thor.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Chavez06,

    Know that I’m with you about the potential about those prospects but am no expert as to predicting when any one might be ready. I think what we have to take into account is the additional time in the majors some need to make an impact and as we seem to agree, going after players to fill those holes till that time.

    Not at all like the Yankees do it, of course, but it does make so many of us angry knowing we are so close and yet so far because the ownership will hang onto this franchise for other outside interests no matter how little resources it can focus on the product it is producing for the paying customer.

    Guess it didn’t matter if Selig didn’t come to the rescue and bailed out Sterling Mets. Somehow I think the Wilpons would have come up with the $65 million that the MLB and Bridge loans represented one way or the other – Selig doing it simply made it financially a bit easier for his friends and nothing more.

  • jaygreen55

    He’s at Binghamton -AA

  • Peter

    Could be inexperience, probably a mixture of that and the need for 2 middle of the order bats. I think the bullpen will work itself out and starting pitching will be fine, although they can use a tough lefty reliever.

  • WillisReid

    Flores sitting while Tejada hits .077 has been pretty depressing. I said this the other day, I’d rather lose 100 games this year and see what they have in Campbell, Flores, Lagares and the young arms than win 85 with guys who won’t be here next year to build off of that success.

  • Andrew Herbst

    I agree. He could be talking about several of the young guys, while focusing on Wheeler and TDA.

  • Of course it’s inexperience. Have you ever started a new job or role and just done it at the same level every day without and highs or lows? No. That’s not how people learn.
    Experience (highs and lows) is what helps people learn where they should be on most days.

  • Frank Francisco

    Lost a ton of time due to injury, isn’t where he should be given his age that’s for sure.

  • Anthony

    Talented position players would help

  • Man we have excuses for days. Inexperience doesn’t help, yes. It’ll bring struggle, yes. It inherently breeds inconsistency, yes, yes, and yes. However, none of that matters more than actually having good big league players instead of flawed ones everywhere and a commitment to playing your best players.