D’Arnaud Is Heating Up, Would Love To See Him Bat Second

 New York Mets Spring Training at their Minor League practice facility located within Tradition Field in Florida

While the Mets find themselves at an impressive 14-11 after 25 games in what was a pretty tough schedule, they still languish at the bottom of the rankings in several offensive areas including batting average, on-base and slugging.

That we were able to get as far as we have without any real offensive propulsion behind it, makes me wonder how much better we could have done with just a modest uptick in offensive production.

As the calendar turns from April to May, and the Mets mired in a team-wide slump at the plate, one player who seems to be warming up is Travis d’ArnaudAfter opening the season by going 0-for-16, d’Arnaud is hitting .364 (8-for-22) in his past seven games. 

Greg Logan of Newsday, points out that while the Mets’ young catcher is hitting only .219 with one home run and four RBIs, he has really turned it on in the past seven games, batting .364 (8-for-22) with two RBIs and three multi-hit games.

“He’s come here with huge expectations, which is tough for any young player,” manager Terry Collins said. “And it’s been a limited sample because he’s been hurt the last couple years. But what he’s showing us right now are all the skills you’ve heard about.

“We’ve seen the power. We’ve seen the arm strength. He’s done a tremendous job with our pitching staff. After a tough start, he’s hitting right now. He’s a good baserunner. He’s got everything all the scouts mentioned, and now we’re starting to see it . . . He’s the real deal.”

D’Arnaud, 25, never let his woes at the plate interfere with the way he handles the pitching staff, a clear sign of his maturity.

“I treat it as two nine-inning games, nine innings offensively and nine innings defensively,” said d’Arnaud, whose work with hitting coach Dave Hudgens is starting to pay off.

If d’Arnaud continues to hit the way he has as the Mets hit the road for a two-game set in Philadelphia and a four-game series in Colorado – two notorious hitter’s parks – it could provide the offensive jolt this team needs.

What I’d really love to see is Collins experiment a little and try batting TDA second instead of sixth or seventh. I’d love to see what he could do batting in front of David Wright instead of Ruben Tejada. Don’t think that batting so low in the lineup hasn’t also affected his numbers in the big-leagues. Collins could have done a much better job of acclimating him into the majors by putting the kid in a position to succeed.

Do you agree? Where would you like to see the Mets bat d’Arnaud? 

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About Joe D 7838 Articles
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73, '00 and '15, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction and interact with other passionate Met fans like you. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
  • I agree, that’s where I have slotted him in most of my suggested lineups. I think he could be more like Loduca hopefully without the roids but still the production.

    Lagares
    TDA
    Murphy
    Wright
    Duda
    Young
    Granderson
    Tejada

    That would certainly lengthen the lineup.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Johnny Bench

  • Alex68

    i agree, he’s been Johnny Bench like the past 7 games (Roll eyes)

  • Lotus1209

    Ease him into it.. But don’t put him there for now. I know Grandy still hasn’t produced enough to merit the two spot… But I really like him there toget more pitches to hit in front of Wright. That’s about the best protection you can get in this lineup and if that doesn’t get him going then nothing will. Just give it at least two more weeks and if it’s more of the same then we can talk about moving TDA to the two spot.

  • SchadenfreudianSlip

    The guy he reminds me most of is Johnny Bench. In so many ways. If Johnny Bench-like was an adjective, that is the adjective I would use to describe this kid. He’s more Johnny Bench-ish than anyone I can think of. His game is filled with Johnny Bench-isms.
    Johnny Bench.

  • mad met

    The only thing granderson has earned is a spot on the bench when Juan returns

  • CJM

    I just gotta say, we owe this all to Sandy Alderson, who again displayed his genius in acquiring Travis d’Arnaud. As Mets fans, we’re incredibly lucky to have such a great GM with such a high IQ.

  • NEXT GM

    WOW , bench and m.m in the same lineup, by 2015.

  • I would leave Wright three.

    Lagares
    TDA
    Wright
    Duda
    Murphy
    Young
    Granderson
    Tejada

    I would revisit once Granderson gets hot.

  • CJM

    If they go with TdA second I’d prefer to see Wright 3rd, Duda 4th, Young 5th, Murph 6th.

  • Alex68

    The guy he reminds me most of is Johnny Bench.”

    THIS^^^^^^

  • willywater88

    My favorite highlight of D’Arnaud’s early career is him taking responsibility for Mejia’s meltdown last week. That’s the sign of a leader right there.

    TDA is batting in the low .200s but his BABIP is in that area as well, meaning he has been quite unlucky into hitting balls to where defenders can make a play on it (league average is around .300 I believe). Only Granderson has a lower BABIP on the team, another sign that both these guys are not doing as bad as their average shows 🙂

  • Alex68

    I just gotta say, we owe this all to Sandy Alderson, who again displayed his genius in acquiring Travis d’Arnaud.”

    THIS^^^^^ ….

    You guys are on fire today…..

  • Guest

    I know, I read how he had an even larger brain with more capacity installed just before he was hired by the Mets …

  • jaygreen55

    It’s way too premature to start comparing him to Johnny bench who averaged 29 HR , 103 RBI and a lifetime OPS of .833 and a cannon for an arm. One f the top 5 (at least) of all time.

    I see more of Paul Lo Duca in his prime. A good but not HOF catcher

  • Off topic but does Dominic Smith remind anybody of Lou Gehrig? The more I see Dom, the more I think he’s the next Gehrig.

    By 2016 we could have Gehrig, Mantle and Bench batting 3-4-5.

    How exciting is that?

  • TPT

    Nimmo reminds me of a lot of Ted Williams and Willie Mays rolled into one and i agree Smith does remind me of Gehrig i never really thought about it until you just now mentioned it …good job JoeD p.s do you think Murphy still bats fourth in 2016? or do we put him back in the 2 slot? just wondering 🙂

  • Wolfmicky21

    It’s a joke – today is positive day.

  • NEXT GM

    who would be the capt.

  • TPT

    Abreu… who else? dumb question

  • Alex68

    That’d be awesome….

  • You can bat Rogers Hornsby Murphy wherever you like. He’s just that good.

  • TPT

    this is true

  • LoL

  • Alex68

    #TheCORE
    #TrendSetter

    Lol, you know, SL are supposed to be happy, yet i get under their skin so easily lol…. Man….

  • Yeah I could see that. Murphy isn’t a 3 hitter but you got a bunch of lefties to split up if Murphy isn’t 2nd.

    Of course you could move Murphy to leadoff.
    Murphy
    TDA
    Wright
    Duda
    Young
    Granderson
    Lagares
    Flores (a man can dream)
    That would be one hell of a deep balanced lineup.

  • Djmurphy

    Could not agree more thought TC should have went to Murphy at begining of the season n said I know u love hitting 2 but that’s not whats best for the team. He would get great pitches to hit and has a great eye. He could be a lot like loduca in that spot. He’s been swinging at a lot of first pitches and also 1-0 n 2-0 that would have to change with EY on base.

    Even if TC didn’t start the season this way after 2 weeks of struggling Collins should have made the switch. Murphy is established and can hit anywhere but D’Arnauld having Tejada behind him don’t put him in an ideal position for success. I’m glad others feel the same way hopefully terry starts to feel the same way. This can help lengthen the order which for a bad offensive team should give a boost.

    There are many spots murph can hit in but ideally it would be 3, 4 or 5. My original thinking was Ike should get another shot at clean up. He’s gone but I’d have Duda in there and Murphy hitting 5th. We don’t currently have an ideal clean up hitter so I’d try Duda but that could change if he’s slumping.

    EY, TDA, wright, Duda, Murphy, Granderson, CY n Tejada.

  • El_Verdadero_Presidente

    I’m not going to like this. It’s no fun watching the games if nobody has a chance to beat us. The way it is, they might as well mail us ten years’ worth of those ugly World Series trophies that look like tree stumps in a single batch, save time and money.

  • Elcorazon86

    Just let him play. Adjusting to the major leagues, especially a catcher, takes time. I like the way he is playing. Hitting to the opposite field and playing good defense. Keep it up.

  • IndianaMet

    Agreed with TDA hitting second. Gonna see more fastballs, can’t get pitched around and will have less pressure to swing for the fences. He seems mentally strong in his interviews and the way he carries himself.

    Then it extends the lineup.

    CY
    TDA
    Murph
    Wright
    Duda
    Lagares
    Granderson
    Flores
    P

  • Not bad but I think that puts 3 LH in a row.

    See the ones below, I actually like Murphy leading off too.

  • Taskmaster4450

    That’s great Joe except Gehrig and Mantle are dead and Bench is going on 60.

  • Taskmaster4450

    I hear Molina is now calling up TdA and asking for pointers on both hitting and catching.

    He feels he can learn a thing or two from Travis.

  • SteveFromNorfolk

    Murphy should not be hitting 4th. He has always had his highest BA in the 2nd spot.

  • Alex68

    Dude…. wrong person…

  • Fixed. Was Discus flub as it said you on my mobile.

  • jaygreen55

    got that after reading the rest of the thread

  • SteveFromNorfolk

    Alex, Alex, please, your blood pressure……

  • SteveFromNorfolk

    Swap Wright and Duda. Remember how Wright performed batting in the 5 slot in 2005-2006?

  • The kid will be alright. As for hitting second, too much too soon. Let him keep hitting and producing and they we can see.

  • CJM

    Murphy has the same BA from cleanup as he does from the second slot. But his overall numbers are better as a cleanup hitter, although it’s a much smaller sample. Murphy’s ideal spot in a lineup is 6, or 7th in a deep lineup.

  • TPT

    not bad at all except you need to flip CY and LAGARES

  • $14435385

    If you’re going to bat TDA second, I’d move Murphy to the three hole to split up the lefties. When Granderson wakes up swap him with Duda. And pencil in Drew in the 8 hole while you’re at it 😉

  • Joey D.

    Hi Joe D.
    Feel it is best to see how the season plays out so we get to know more what type of hitter Travis really is and that is a good point – we really don’t know how much of it is because Travis is not really getting good pitches to swing at.
    But I have not heard that issue addressed during the broadcasts, that he is getting poor pitches to see because of Tejada hitting behind him. What we did hear prior to his bat coming alive this past week was that he was late with his timing or hitting over the ball too much. So it may or may not be that he’s being pitched around. And if he is, he also has to learn how to lay off those type pitches as well.
    So maybe from a strategic point of view, moving Travis to second might be a temporary solution – or it could turn out to be a move that should be kept depending upon how he retains his hitting. But I’m not too sure if hitting in front of David would assure him of being pitched to any differently. It hasn’t done the trick for Curtis Granderson.

  • IndianaMet

    Agreed. That is a pretty decent lineup. Granderson may get pitched around hitting 7th but he doesn’t shorten his swing in any scenario, so as long as he is selective he would be ok.

  • Avery Decker

    I don’t agree with the idea of moving young players around in the lineup when they start to perform. As you said, TdA struggled for the beginning of the year and is slowly starting to come into his own. Right when he is beginning to feel comfortable is not the right time to start moving him around the lineup. Let him continue to find his ground where he is comfortable.

  • RyanF55

    Foot in mouth hahaha

  • Alex68

    Right, apparently i am on your head too… don’t let it happen again sandblaster…

  • RyanF55

    TDA is starting to be the guy we traded for. Like many have argued, he just needs some time and he’ll produce. I think we are seeing that take place now. I actually agree that I see Travis as solid #2, but not just yet. I’d give him a little more time, but I certainly like that idea. If he can make contact near a LoDuca-esque rate, he could be very useful there. We all just need to be a little patient, which is impossible for 99.9% of Met fans right now.

  • IndianaMet

    I cut and pasted this lineup from another metsblog:

    Lagares
    Murph
    Wright
    Murph
    Duda
    CY
    Granderson
    Murph
    Matt Wheeler

    I kid, I kid. LGM

  • SchadenfreudianSlip

    I loved Lo Duca and would certainly welcome that type of production. But with this kid, its shooting low. In fact, I wouldn’t wait to put him in the hall of fame yet. I’d do it now. Why wait. He’s Johnny Bench, only Benchier.

  • SchadenfreudianSlip

    You’re so easy its funny. And yet sometimes its sad and makes me feel bad. I mean I’m entertaining myself but I also feel like I’m picking on someone with diminished mental capacity. I can’t decide if the fun outweighs the guilt or vice versa.

    But the one thing I can definitely decide on is that this kid has Johnny Bench written all over him. Hall of Fame guaranteed. Sandy for god. No, strike that. Sandy is god!!

  • Rocky Thompson

    1. CY/EY
    2. Murphy
    3. Wright
    4. Granderson
    5. d’Arnaud
    6. Duda
    7. Lagares
    8. Tejada

  • Djmurphy

    Lageres needs to play every day when he gets back. There’s no reason he can’t be transformed into a lead off hitter. He stole based more frequently in the minors but never had great percentages. That is something that can be coached. There’s no reason given his speed he can’t swipe a minimum of 30 bases per year. They should get Ricky Henderson to work with him. Right now is not ideal coming off injury and in season. However, this is something they should start working with him immedietly. Making sure he always gets good leads at least 6 or 8 feet n busting it soons the pitcher is commited to coming home. e

    While Reyes was always a good base steAler after working with Ricky he went a lot more and his % got a lot higher. That dynamic can take his game to another level. He will develop a lot more power in the next couple of seasons and while he will never be a big homerun threat I can see him filling the gaps. He can be a lot like Reyes with the extra base hits. Adding lots of steals to his game can make him a dynamic player.

  • SchadenfreudianSlip

    Very exciting, but even more exciting with Guidry, Seaver, Pedro, Maddux and Cy Young himself in the rotation.

    I don’t think it would be unfair to say that 110 wins next year is a reasonable possibility. And we owe it all to my lord and savior, the one and only, the might and powerful, the all knowing and all seeing, his grand omnipotence, Sandy. All praise be to Sandy.

  • Alex68

    I’ll be okay… keep it coming, i can handle it unlike many Sandy Lovers in here who then revert back to insults when corner by my fact about their lord and savior Sandy Alderson

  • mad met

    If a man could dream Murphy would play first while cano was batting cleanup playing second base

  • NewYorkMammoths

    All I can say to that is, “Bench!”

  • lindro88

    Flores at SS? This team is only going to win if they play clean games defensively. If Flores is the 8 hitter, what’s the point? Might as well go with the better defensive player.

  • SteveFromNorfolk

    Unfortunately, the only way we’d get Cano is by trading Wright and Thor for him.

  • Derpy

    I’d like this lineup:

    EY, Grandy, Wright, Duda, CY, Murph, dArny, Tejada, pitcher. I feel it gives the most length and best chance to score runs. When Lag comes back, swap him in for EY.

  • Derpy

    If right center in Citi Field weren’t 390-400 feet, and were instead a more reasonable 380, dArny would have, at minimum, 3 more home runs, 6 more RBIs, his batting average would be nearing .300, and people would have been talking about how great a start he has had this season.

    Instead, Citi Field is absolutely cavernous and has devoured his power numbers for breakfast and everyone is talking like he is a failed prospect. That is what Citi Field does to this team. It is ridiculous, right field needs to be brought in at least 10 feet. A 400 foot right center fence is absurd. 390 in the gap is absurd. Left field is nowhere near that big in Citi, and the entire franchise has power to right field. Citi Field plays against all of the strengths of this lineup and people wonder why they can’t score runs at home.

    And great, you can say right field down the line is shorter than left. All well and good, except the Mets don’t have hitters who pull down the line! These are gap hitters! The right field gap is ridiculous. If they were going to build around speed and just hit triples all day, that would be one thing. But they aren’t built on speed, they are build on OBP and power. Except the whole team, except CY, has power to the right field gap. Wright, Duda, dArny, Grandy. Everyone is right field gap power. Grandy is the most pull happy, but he really isn’t a dead pull hitter, he has hit more towards the gaps. Now if Wright and dArny were pull hitters, maybe you could say Citi is fair to the Mets. Duda would occasionally pull down the line and every so often get one far enough in the gap, Grandy will pull enough, and Wright and dArny would use left. Except that isn’t the case! The whole team has power to right!

  • RyanF55

    As much as I’ve stated (admittedly incorrectly) that I don’t see EY as a starter, he’s currently 5th in the MLB in Runs Scored and is 2nd (only 1 off the lead) in stolen bases. That can’t be discounted..he’s on pace to score 140 runs this season. As low as his BA is, and even his OBP, he always manages to do complete damage on the base paths. I think he deserves a significant amount of playing time even when Lagares comes back.

  • Destry

    1. EY-S
    2. Murphy-L
    3. Wright-R
    4. Duda-L
    5. TDA-R
    6. Granderson-L
    7. CY-R
    8. Quintanilla-L

  • TPT

    WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?heres a question ok? What is the fixation with Murphy batting 4th? So far he has no homers and 8 rbis and only 3 or 4 of those rbis came when hes batting 4th? in his career this going on his 6th he averages 46.6 rbis per year and 6.5 hrs …if TC refuses to put Duda in the clean up spot (4hrs and 13 rbis) doesnt it make more sense to bat Murphy 3rd and bat DW 4th? why is DW the only guy that doesnt get moved in the lineup for the sake of the team? so what do you guys think? just wondering

  • LIKayLGM

    Good baseball talk – hahahahahahah #kinghypocrite

  • El_Verdadero_Presidente

    Cy Young was a fat guy.

  • Derpy

    The only one you could justify benching for EY is Grandy. That aint happening. Lags is one of the highest value outfielders in the game and has to play every single day. CY has power that the team desperately needs, plus he is good at defense. EY can just barely fake playing defense and can’t hit and most certainly doesn’t have power.

  • Destry

    Watch our offensive numbers sky rocket as we are on the road for the next 9 games, and aren’t facing Cueto or Wainwright every night. Our offense isn’t nearly as bad as the numbers suggest, and likewise, except opposite, our pitching numbers will go up a bit over the next week and a half. We will all be talking about how great our offense is, and how shaky our pitching looks come next week after playing in the cracker box in Philly, and the thin air of Coors Field.

  • Destry

    TC hates Duda. Always has. For whatever reason, as soon as Murphy gets hot. TC moves around in the lineup to cool him off. I swear he is trying to lose sometimes, and the team pulls it out anyway.

  • SchadenfreudianSlip

    He was fat alright. Fat with awesomeness.

  • Mike Lloyd

    I’ve been advocating him in the 2 hole as well Joe. This isint rocket science no matter how much people want to make it that. If EY is leading off and gets on, and TDA is hitting in front of DW-he will get a steady diet of fastballs. The time to do it was when he was struggling however-they did it with Curtis-why didn’t they do it with TDA? Probably about 15 million reasons why I guess 🙂

  • shouldaswung

    Good of you to admit that EYJ is earning his playing time. He might still earn his way to the bench but right now he is doing a fine job at leadoff.

  • Alex68

    Kay, i get insulted and attack here everyday, how come you don’t come to my defend then? i mostly take the high road and don’t engage, yet, you seem so eager to post to me that no matter the situation or cirmcumstance youd still come to the blog just to criticize me or insult me and yet you have the audacity to write to me “Good baseball talk??”
    Man…. you SL and Sandy cheerleaders are a tough, relentless crowd…

  • shouldaswung

    Yeah, sitting the guy who is 3rd in the NL in runs seems like a good idea for this team..

  • John

    Probably could still hit better than the current Mets

  • KMO82

    This offense will never be mistaken for being great no matter what happens, I assure you lol.

  • El_Verdadero_Presidente

    Yeah, but next thing you know some beat-writing hack starts up with the chubby one-liners and then we’ve got a clubhouse problem again. Cy’s gotta go. Grab Mathewson or Johnson or one of those guys.

  • Sean

    I can’t see moving D’Arnaud into the 2 spot if we move Duda into the 4 spot. Murphy has to bat early in the lineup, as much as the haters want to deny it, Murphy is one of our best “hitters” (not walkers). He just barrels it up and doesn’t strike out much. So I guess my only quip is with Murphy. Also I hope Lagares takes EY’s spot. I hate that he can’t drive the ball to save his life. He walks like nobody’s business.. the definition of true major leaguer… EY just bugs me, idk why.

  • Big Daddy D

    1. EYJ/Lagares
    2. d’Arnaud
    3. Wright
    4. Duda
    5. Murphy
    6. Granderson
    7. C. young
    8. Tejada/Q.
    9. p

  • Derpy

    Yeah, guess what? Lags in the same situation would have scored more runs than EY. Why? Because Lags can actually hit.

  • Ryan5757

    You are twisting numbers around badly here. You can’t take the total number of HR’s and RBI’s and divide by six because: 1 – he’s only played in 23 games this year (his 6th season) and 2 – he only played in 49 games his rookie season. He also spent significant time on the DL in 2011.

    His 162 game averages comes out to about 10 HR’s and 69 RBI’s. Obviously that’s not the production you look for in a cleanup hitter, but let’s at least be fair here.

    If the Mets are committed to hitting Granderson second then I would much rather prefer to see Murphy hit 4th simply because he is a better hitter than Duda. And that’s the same reason why Wright should always bat 3rd – because he’s the best hitter on the team.

  • shouldaswung

    I bet you guarantee that too, right?

  • LIKayLGM

    Every response to you is deserved, stop with the “attacks” because it’s you on the attack, you are either too ignorant or arrogant or I suspect both to realize it. No one is buying the martyr role.

  • mets4lyfe

    1. Lagares
    2. d’Arnaud
    3. Wright
    4. Duda
    5. Young/Granderson
    6. Granderson/Young
    7. Murphy
    8. Tejada

  • Destry

    I don’t know. A couple of 7-6 games in Philly followed by three or four 10-9 games at Coors can make the offensive numbers jump up quite a bit

  • ray sadecki

    Anybody would be better in the 2 hole than Granderson. Travis second, Curtis seventh.

  • Derpy

    Lags has hit his whole career, at every level. Their speed really isn’t that dissimilar. Lags is a better player in every way. EY can steal bases, yippy. He hasn’t created runs, David Wright has created runs. David Wright would have driven people in regardless of who was standing on base, Lags runs very well.

  • Taskmaster4450

    You noticed something that I came across. Everyone want to point how bad the Mets offense is when they are face some of the best staffs in baseball and playing in cold conditions. Did you notice how Miami’s heralded offense didnt exactly rip it up in Citi Field?

    The simple fact is that the Mets faced some tough pitching over most of the season and lost a lot of offense due to the April conditions in Citi. People whine about the low HR totals when there were at least 5 outs that I can remember (Duda of Kimbrel, Wrigh that Stanton caught the other day, and Grandy’s shot that died on the warning track to name a few) which were HRs in June.

    Yes guys struggled but conditions and pitching had something to do with that. Notice how the runs jumped when they were in AZ.

  • SchadenfreudianSlip

    Lucky for us we have Ty Cobb in our clubhouse. Martino and Puma don’t stand a chance.

  • Taskmaster4450

    TC loved Ike.

    He might have cried when he was told by Alderson that he traded him.

  • TPT

    ok lets throw his past numbers Ryan….tell me what other major league hitter batting fourth has not one homer and 8 rbis? and yea my bad for totaling in this year as a full year but im asking you isnt he better suited as a no 3 hitter and let DW CY and DUDA drive him in?what wrong with dropping DW down to 4th?and if DW is the best hitter on the team with more power doesnt it make sense to bat him behind the second best hitter on the team that has no power?

  • Destry

    Whatever his approach was in 2011 is what he should go back to doing. Especially now that he steals 20-25 bases per season. That Murphy is a number 3 hitter. I don’t care if he doesn’t have a single HR the whole year.

  • RyanF55

    EY should continue to play significantly if not everyday. That can come at the platoon of CY/Granderson…I don’t really care. I agree that Lagares earned the right to play everyday before getting injured and should be plugged back into CF. But how are you going to sit the guy who crosses the plate more than anyone else on the team? Once he gets to 1st, he basically is in scoring position immediately. He’s such a threat…will he hit HRs, hit for average? No. But on pace for 140 runs? 1 steal off the leader in the MLB? How can we sit that guy on a team starved for scoring?

  • Hotstreak

    I like the way TdA supporters in the past said sample size too small but then say now over last seven games he s hitting bla bla bla something with at least one gift hit on an obvious error. TdA has to prove himself there is no getting around that.

  • Destry

    I swear it seems like he has hit a 385 ft fly ball just short of the wall or a lazer shot line drive right into someones glove in almost every non hit.

  • Pedro

    1.Lagares
    2.Murphy
    3.Wright
    4.Duda
    5.Young
    6.Granderson
    7.d’Arnaud
    8.Tejada

  • Destry

    Just wait til Tom Seaver Harvey & Jerry Koosmangaard are in the rotation next year with Travis d’Johnny Bench behind the plate, and Mickey Nimmo Mantle in the OF

  • KMO82

    Sure, but we know why. They would have to have sustained success and guys like d’Arnaud and Granderson would have to break out.

  • Ryan5757

    I’d prefer to see Murphy hit 2nd, Duda 4th and Granderson 6th, but it seems like they are committed to having Granderson hit 2nd for now.

  • Derpy

    You’re just overestimating his value by so much. He doesn’t get on base much, and you can bet pitchers are going to start challenging him more and more as the season goes on. His walk rate is going to plummet because pitchers have little fear he can make hard contact and they are just going to start throwing it down the middle to him. Steals is one of the most overrated stats in baseball, and his runs scored really has very little to do with him and much more to do with everyone else on the team, namely David Wright.

    Then factor in his average defensive range, far below average defensive first step, and well below average arm. EY really is not a great player. This team has far superior options. CY offers far superior defense and power and contact rates plus good speed. Lags offers elite defense, probably the best in all of MLB, plus good contact and power. Granderson offers above average defense plus power. EY is outclassed. He is a classic 4th outfielder.

    EY is kinda like Juan Pierre after Juan Pierre left his prime. He could sorta play defense still, but had a terrible arm and couldn’t hit. You can use him to rest other players and as a pinch runner. That should be the full extent of his job for this team. PS, even Juan Pierre out of his prime is a better hitter than EY. Thats saying something.

  • El_Verdadero_Presidente

    Whoa, forgot about the Peach. Good. Let’s just hope he’s not all bent because EY’s ahead of him on the chart.

  • Alex68

    Hahahaha, riiiight… you think i give 2 sh**s??? i don’t even bother anymore, ppl get on me and say whatever they want and it seems to be okay in the blog, but if attack back then i get called out and/or thrown into the drunk tank. i have ppl like you to thank for preparing me for all these MB awesome heads and SL who came on board… that is why i’ve survived what others couldn’t….
    #MovingOn

  • tomterrif

    Joe, TdA has projected as a possible two-hole hitter since last year. But I wouldn’t do it quite yet. Let’s get a larger sample before putting that on him. Once he shows some consistency, I would consider it, especially since Granderson is no better than a 7-hole hitter now.

  • TPT

    when you think about it this whole situation arises because so far Grandys a bust otherwise it be simple Murph 2nd Wright 3rd Grandy 4th

  • RyanF55

    The Stadium certainly is huge, undoubtedly. Right Center is a mile away and yeah it doesn’t help anything. I don’t think that excuses the Mets’ inability to get base hits, triples, doubles, etc. though. The HR has been void from this team for years, but its not like the fences get moved in for the other team at Citi field. It’s a fair game with identical dimensions for both clubs, so if it affects Mets hitters, it should likewise affect visiting clubs. Stadium dimensions don’t excuse a general lack of hitting. I agree, TDA would have at least 3-4 more HRs if he was playing at Yankee Stadium for example. I don’t care though…we don’t have cheap HRs here. It’s a pitchers park for both teams, and I like it that way. If we bring in the fences for Wright, TDA, Duda etc. we also bring in the fences for Upton, Stanton, Harper, etc. It works both ways.

  • edhearn

    I’m so sick of this “SL” fixation, Alex. I enjoy these threads until you enter the conversation with your own tedious agenda.

  • Waz0787

    Eyj
    Wright
    Duda
    Young
    Tda
    Murphy
    Ganderson
    Automatic out tejada

  • RyanF55

    “He doesn’t get on base much and pitchers will challenge him more and more.” Ok…once again, in spite of his low OBP and AVG, he is on pace to score:

    140 runs…One…Hundred…and…Forty…Runs
    He has 12 steals (1 off the MLB lead)

    He has 20 of 100 total runs this season for the Mets. That’s 1/5 of all runs on the team, not even playing every game.

    What is your argument to sit him, right now?

  • shouldaswung

    At the MAJOR LEAGUE level, EYJ has a better BA, higher OBP, better BB%, more SB with a MUCH higher success %, and a better RUNS % too, by a lot.

    For what this team needs at leadoff, it’s not even close.

    By the way, here are their MINOR LEAGUE numbers over 7 seasons each;

    EYJ
    2005 .301 BA, .404 OBP
    2006 ,295 BA, .391 OBP
    2007 .291 BA, .359 OBP
    2008 .290 BA, .391 OBP
    2009 .299 BA, .387 OBP
    2010 .250 BA, .335 OBP
    2011 .363 BA, .454 OBP

    Lagares
    2006 .255 BA, .339 OBP
    2007 .210 BA, .262 OBP
    2008 .253 BA, .284 OBP
    2009 .266 BA, .297 OBP
    2010 .279 BA, .296 OBP
    2011 .349 BA, .383 OBP
    2012 .283 BA, .334 OBP

    So, calling Lagares a better hitter and saying he has hit his whole career, at every level, is just plain false, agreed? It’s really not even close in the MINORS either.

    EYJ has put up MUCH better leadoff numbers every year that Lagares and him were playing baseball. And calling their speed close is ridiculous. Not only is EYJ faster but, his SB skills are FAAAAR superior.

    I hope that these stats help you come to the conclusion that maybe you are misinformed, and also, that liking Lagares doesn’t mean that he offers more to the team than EYJ, especially at leadoff.

  • Nolrog

    Ha ha ha ha ha. Good one. That is typical of MetsBlog.

  • Avi

    Without Eric Young in the lineup I would bat Murphy leadoff against righty starters. He gets on base and has really shown that he is an excellent base runner. You can try:

    1 Murphy L
    2 TDA R
    3 Wright R
    4 Duda L
    5 C Young R
    6 Granderson L
    7 Lagares R
    8 SS
    9 P

    Against lefty starters I actually prefer Young leadoff (career .363 OBP and good speed):
    1 C Young R
    2 TDA R
    3 Wright R
    4 Duda L
    5 Lagares R
    6 Murphy L
    7 Granderson L
    8 SS
    9 P

    Realistically Eric Young might start 50% of games even with Lagares back. In those cases you would slot him leadoff and either Murphy or TDA #2. And of course Recker might start 50 games and you pretty much have to bat him #7.

    No doubt though that TDA will need to improve to justify keeping him in the #2 spot ahead of Wright.

  • “What I’d really love to see is Collins experiment a little and try batting TDA second instead of sixth or seventh.”

    If you consider that TDA so far this season is putting the ball in play 33.7% of the time (2nd best of the regulars to Murphy’s 35.5%) and therefore is also only striking out 13.7% of the time that is not a bad idea for consideration.

  • Derpy

    ROFL!!

    Lagares is better than EY. Chris Young is better than EY. Granderson is better than EY.

    EY is a far below offensive player. He costs the team more runs than he creates. If another player, one who is at least average (heck, even less below average) were playing in his spot, the Mets would have scored MORE runs. Is wRC+ is 76! 76! He has 8wRC. Just for comparison, Lags has 8 wRC. In half the games played…

    And not only that, none of that is really the important part. The important part is EY is going to regress from where he is. He will get worse. CY and Grandy will very likely get better. The players are going to regress to their means and most likely play an average season for their career. You don’t just assume a guy is going to have a career worst or a career best based on 20 games…

  • mets2014

    he leads the team in WAR with 1.1

  • Chance2

    Not sure it’s fair to get on Terry about where d’Arnaud bats. Don’t managers often put young hitters low in the batting order so there’s no pressure on them?

    Many approaches, many things to consider, many things to weigh against each other.

  • oleosmirf

    The problem is every single Mets fan should be a TDA supporter. He’s that important to the success of the team. Lagares, Wheeler and Mejia are in that same boat.

  • Derpy

    rofl.

    Lags had a OPS hovering around .800 in the high levels of the minors.

    EY had a OPS over .800 twice… in his life. Once in A ball and the other in AAA. Both hitter friendly environments, as opposed to the largely pitcher friendly confines Lags played in. Either way, Lags is very clearly a far superior batter, and if you can’t tell just by looking at the two of them in the box, then I don’t know what to tell you.

  • Sunshine

    Between TDA and Recker this is the “Benchiest” bunch of catchers on a MLB roster since Bench himself! Benchiest, I say!!!!

  • Alec Benjamin

    Interesting fact Rueben Tejada has the second most intentional walks in the bigs

  • “The problem is every single Mets fan should be a TDA supporter. He’s that important to the success of the team. Lagares, Wheeler and Mejia are in that same boat.”

    This^

  • Sunshine

    I think the Mets should hire the frozen head of Ted Williams as their hitting coach.

  • Mike Lloyd

    That’s very true Hotstreak-can’t have it both ways. Still-I think the kid has at times-had that “deer in the headlights” look to him. I think he just needs some self confidence-and putting him in the 2 hole gives him the chance to see better pitches to assist in building that confidence. As Joe said-put him in a good position to succeed.

  • BronxMets

    Bat a catcher second?

  • Hitmanᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ✔

    Paul Lo Duca ring a bell?

  • seldomused

    As long as Terry is running this team, we won’t be seeing Travis anywhere above the 7th slot.

  • Mike Lloyd

    Because Met pitcher’s are even more automatic outs than he is with the bat. Lol…in Ruben’s defense-he’s been playing ok and his D has been better.

  • shouldaswung

    OBP is a leadoff stat, OPS is not, first of all. We are primarily debating EYJ’s and Lagares’s leadoff resume.

    Secondly, calling Lagares a “far superior batter” is the thing that would make an adolescent “rofl”. Statistics do not bear that point out. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    Lastly, I see you are not willing to concede points, and just have an opinion YOU regard as fact. No sense arguing.

    Take it easy

  • Get your fat ass off my head you freak.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I like TDA doing well, but let’s calm down. A veteran player with a proven track record starts poorly and we want him in the seven spot. TDA has a good week and he should jump all the way to the two-hole.

  • Hitmanᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ✔

    Murph is too low. At best, put him 5th.

  • Alex68

    And who doesn’t support him?? if he isn’t hitting what do you want fans to say?? Ohh gee, he’s hitting 190 but you know what, i’ll support him even though he’s not the Johnny Bench we were told he was…. F0H…
    Some players during this FO era have gotten a pass others NEVER got before.. and we all know WHY!

  • Alex68

    Well, i suggest you DON’T read them… that’s what i do with 85% of the posters here with their never ending sandy loving, their saber crap and/or most of the MB awesome heads

  • Taskmaster4450

    Dont you know, that veteran player is Jason Bay 2.0.

    I read it posted on here so it must be true.

  • As I said, minus the roids he kinda reminds me of him.
    11 year average
    .286 .337 .409 .746 12 HR and 72 RBI per year.

  • RyanF55

    He has yet to tell me how 140 runs and 84 SBs warrants riding the bench. I guess EY is expected to drive in runs, as a leadoff hitter? That makes sense.

    Arguing OPS is irreverent…what does EY’s slugging percentage have to do with this argument. He’s a leadoff hitter…

    “Granderson is better than EY, CY is better than EY” …based off pedigree? Neither have come close to EYs production this year. EY deserves to play everyday or every other at worst until he proves he can’t score runs.

  • Derpy

    I’m willing to concede one point: EY is a 4th outfielder. Lags is better than EY. He is an elite fielder and a solid offensive player. Grandy is an above average fielder with power, and he will likely hit for power this season. CY is a wild card, but he has above average defense and speed with the addition of power and is an overall superior offensive option. EY rides the pine.

  • jason bay

    That is an interesting thought Joe.

    I would give him some more time to get comfortable before putting him at the top of the order but i can definitely see him being a help up there.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Oh please. You cant be serious.

    You know as well as I do that many people here do not root for the name on the front of the jersey but, rather, the name on the back AND the GM who acquired him.

    And with TdA, remember he was traded for a CYA which means he better be an AS or else. Forget the fact that CYA has a .500 record and an ERA that rivals Pelfrey since the trade.

  • Yes, no doubt purposely misrepresenting and exaggerating Bench quotes is just another form of supporting TDA. You’re just being misunderstood.

  • jason bay

    Why?

  • CyYout

    I don’t think it would be a bad idea against left-handed pitchers. He’ll certainly get more pitches to hit in front of Wright. I would reward his good play of late with at least a spot start there.

  • Hotstreak

    Yes Mike Lloyd: Way back I said the same thing really: A deer in headlights and he need confidence. After he gets confidence he will reach the next level. In the two hole since TdA is selective EY Jr could steal a ton. Murphy should be third with DW fourth.

  • Derpy

    I’ve already dismantled this abortion of an argument you’re trying to make:

    A: whatever pace you think EY is on, he isn’t staying this way all season. He is going to slump.

    B: his offensive numbers are well below average so far this season. But wait, wouldn’t that mean he is slumping now and will get better! No, not really, he is pretty much batting his career average right now, he is just walking more than he ever has, which will likely regress.

    C: all batters are expected to drive in runs. The concept of a “leadoff hitter” is totally bunk. There is no such thing. Everyone is a hitter, period. If you can’t hit, you shouldn’t be playing.

    D: OPS is never irrelevant. Power is never irrelevant. It is one of the most valuable things in the game. OPS is one of the best offensive stats to look at, it is highly correlated with performance and talent. Of which EY is in short supply.

    E: Yeah, past ability is pretty important. You expect people to have average seasons, not huge year to year fluctuations. It is very uncommon for players to fluctuate much year to year. You don’t expect a player to have huge down years or huge up years. You’re assuming EY will have a career year. That is illogical and irrational. Especially based off one month. You have to assume players return to their career averages, because they almost always do.

  • shouldaswung

    I agree Ryan, and have been saying so since day one.

    This guy Derpy has a very transparent style of debate, and is a waste of time for a serious baseball talk.

    I think all three of us hope to see Lagares blossom and be our CF for a decade, but that shouldn’t influence a discussion involving facts, right now.

    EYJ is EASILY the better leadoff option for now, and like you said, should be put out there on a regular basis until/if he plays his way to the bench.

  • Sach

    I can’t see Travis batting 2nd anytime soon. Obviously, you can’t see it now because he’s batting 7th but I would have to have some idea if he could go to RF and hit behind a runner at 1B, take pitchers and hit in pitcher’s counts to allow Eric to steal a bag, etc. for him to bat 2nd. I prefer a veteran who also has some base stealing speed to bat 2nd.

  • How many benches can a Johnny Bench bench if a Johnny Bench benched some benches?

  • Hotstreak

    Again over hyped and he hasn’t produced enough for the hype. A little disappointing to say the least.

    Again I saw him ST in Kissimmee at Astros catching Matt Harvey 2nd game 2013 split squad. I was so exited. I saw TdA’s great framing and will I always mention that. Framing as his can save a pitching staff 30 runs a season.. Bucks framing on the other hand can cost a pitching staff 30 runs per season.. Framing is that important

    However TdA’s body language catching Matt Harvey who he is virtually the same age if not older was like a kid brother. He really has an older brother released by Pirates. TDA’s swing had a lot of rust which in a sense with his layoff to injuries was to be expected. Yes he is starting to get his timing back and resemble more of the high scouting grades which I called hype.

    TdA needs confidence then watch out. I said that all along. However with that said unless he produces well I will be a critic.

  • gameball

    Please don’t even joke . . . I for one am concerned.

  • 3doza33

    I actually like that line up!

  • Derpy

    lol, my transparent argument? Yeah, transparent because it actually makes sense? Your opaque argument is the real issue here. You seem to think a 4th outfielder who is playing significantly below average offense and mediocre defense is a better option than players who play good defense with much higher offensive output. Runs scored is a product of the team, not one player. Substitute Lags in that position and you would expect to score more runs, which is a point I don’t think you quite understand.

  • Manager of The Year

    You’re about to give Alex seizures lol

  • RyanF55

    A. That’s your assumption. A complete assumption.

    B. His offensive numbers are above average in terms of RUNS and STOLEN BASES. That’s what you’d prefer out of your leadoff hitter, not a guy to have high RBIs and OPS as you have stated.

    C. The concept of a leadoff hitter isn’t bunk. It’s an approach every team in the league takes. If your leadoff hitter hits, then great. Their job is to get on base and set the table for the middle of the lineup, especially in the NL.

    D. OPS isn’t irrelevant, but slugging percentage for a leadoff hitter isn’t a good stat to use. OPS marries on base and slugging. Slugging doesn’t matter for a leadoff hitter anywhere near where you are saying it does. We don’t need a leadoff hitter to be a slugger. That’s the job of Granderson/Wright./CY/Duda

    E. EY is not overacheving, he’s on average with every year he’s played. The difference? He’s playing all the time, and that’s why he’s putting up the numbers. In 2010, EY had an OBP of .312, in 2011 he had an OBP of .345, in 2012, EY has an OBS of .377, 2013 an OBP of .310, and this year he has an OBP of .320. His average is in line with every other year he’s played. He’s just playing more. Last year is the first year he’s played over 100 games, so you nor I know what he’d do playing everyday over the course of a few years.

  • shouldaswung

    Uh, we (Ryan and myself) are talking about things that ACTUALLY HAPPENED and/or ARE HAPPENING, versus your things that COULD/SHOULD happen. It’s a pretty easy concept to understand, actually. REAL stuff trumps PROJECTION.

    You have a transparent style of just-wanting-to-win-no-matter-what, was my point.

    Enjoy your day, I’m done with this conversation, no hard feelings.

  • RyanF55

    Grandy is an above average fielder? I guess you don’t count his arm in that equation, you know, 50 percent of the worth of a RF defensively. Granderson has had embarrassing showings in the field this year.

  • Mets fan in Va

    Murphy should bat 3rd. He is the same type of hitter that Keith Hernandez was. Move DW to cleanup and the dude 5th.
    1Lageres
    2Tda
    3Murphy
    4D.W.
    5Duda
    6CY
    7CG
    8Tejada

  • BCleveland3381

    I agree completely. I think d’Arnaud could flourish batting 2nd. Not to mention it also lengthens our lineup quite a bit.
    EY/Lagares
    d’Arnaud
    Wright
    Duda
    Murphy
    CY
    Grandy
    Tejada

  • Metjorge

    Anyone batting second makes more sense than Curtis Granderson. The only problem witth d’Arnaud batting second is where would you put Murphy. 3rd? I like Murphy at the top of the lineup getting on base for Wright and the run producers.

  • Metjorge

    Seeing how much Terry likes playing with the lineup even when the team is wining, wouldn’t surprise me if he makes him bat even cleanup some day during the season.

  • BronxMets

    very good sure does…he was on the juice but good call can you name a second one?

  • Metjorge

    Paul Lo Duca was a great second hitter.

  • Hodges14

    I’m not old enough to have seen Gehrig play hahahah.

  • Hitmanᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ✔

    Carlton Fisk circa 1983.

  • Taskmaster4450

    What? After 80 ABs.

    Give me a break.

  • Carl

    Jason Kendell used to bat lead off. Until d’Arnaud starts to show some more power, he would make a good number 2 hitter.

  • gameball

    No my friend, give me a break. I am not making a prediction; I am expressing my concern. If you have no doubt that Granderson will provide the sort of production that his contract warrants over the next four years, then may your faith bear sweet fruit. Based on his career arc, I have no such confidence, and must wait to be reassured by events.

  • metstastic

    Murphy is not exactly a high OBP guy.. He is better off batting 6th and driving some runs in.

  • seldomused

    Same here. It has to be frustrating to be hitting solid drives but having them go right at the defenders.

  • seldomused

    The most promising part of TDA as of late is how he hasn’t let the early struggles bother him. He’s been steadily improving and reducing the ugly swings. He looks so much more comfortable in the box now and can hopefully start producing more consistently. We don’t need another Mike Piazza, but a .260-.280 BA with some pop out of the catcher position would be amazing.

  • piazza4aday

    its because he is the second coming of Barry Bonds….we just need to “get him going”…. 🙂

  • wilponzi

    Bench = d’Arnaud, Gehrig = Smith, but who’s Mantle?

  • lareplus

    But just so you know. . .we WOULD take another Pizza! Just in case there’s a Piazza tree out there listening. . .

  • Eyeball

    Get him going to Vegas.

  • Eyeball

    The team will need to face tough pitching and cold conditions in October.

  • mikefichera

    I’d like to see him batting second as well. Needs more ABs, lengthen the line up some also.

  • Hotstreak

    The implication is Brandon Nimmo.

  • rexmack

    Who said he was the next Johnny Bench besides the voices in your head?

  • Martin

    darnaud plus flores called up and hitting equals 89 wins

  • Edward

    “Warming up” is not the same thing as “on fire”. Did you miss the title of this story or is English not your first language too?

  • Hitmanᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ✔

    ” Ohh gee, he’s hitting 190″

    .219* (.290 the last 10 games), but please, go on with your rant…

  • Edward

    Clever of you to give yourself an out in case D’arnaud “takes off”. However, the cleverer people see that and when he does “take off”, we will bust your a$$ on D’arnaud and him being “overhyped” like we do Alex and how he was WRONG about Nimmo.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    Lets not get crazy here….

    Many here looking to promote TDA after 22at bats are the 1st ones to tell others that last years 112 plate appearances is not enough to judge TDA on(which is true)…

    And while the 8-22 is positive and a good start it is an even smaller sample size so lets not get ahead of ourselves and make any rash decisions and promote him to the 2hole.

    TDA would be a terrible 2 hitter he swings a lot at the 1st pitch

  • Metfan9876

    Well his swing has definitely looked better, which is probably a reason for the excitement over his recent hot streak ( despite small sample size ).

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    Thats a terrible lineup and while Grandy is sucking now…

    It makes no sense to compound the problem by batting him 7th in front of Tejada and the pitcher where he will see nothing to hit.

  • Hotstreak

    So be it. I call it the way I see it. But I see he can reach the next level too if he gets confidence.

  • Hotstreak

    What ever happened to sample size?

  • Hotstreak

    Supporter of TdA are Met fans: Opinions on his success varies. But some twist it if we think he is disappointing so far we are happy with his failure to date which like Nimmo can change. Believe me my take on Tda is his body languague I saw first hand which most realize has improved. Now its all up to TdA himself to take it to the next level. To have a good offensive catcher is a luxury from MP days not that I am comparing him to MP which is unfair as is to Bench. Brian McCann was my take from scouting reports..

  • I don’t see Collins being that smart.

  • mytoemytoe

    Joe D, you’re talking about an 8 for 22 sample. I think he’s got some talent but I don’t think he’s one of the three best hitters on the team, which should be your 1-2-3 if you’re going to maximize at bats for your best players.

    I like Lagares leading off with Murphy and Wright. Granderson belongs in the four hole or even the six if he’s going to slump. TDA can hit anywhere after that I think. You also have to consider it’s his first full season behind the plate in MLB. Makes sense not to put a ton of pressure on him.

  • BCleveland3381

    He’s a grown man and a baseball veteran. If he wants to move up the lineup, hit the ball.

  • Bill Buckner

    1. We can’t hit the best hitter in the lineup 5th. You might lose him 30-50 ABs a year by dropping him from 3rd to 5th.
    2. You would have back to back lefties at 3 & 4 and would make the opposing manager’s job a cake walk in late inning matchup situations…

  • wilponzi

    LOL