Collins Worried About d’Arnaud’s Mental Approach

Travis d'Aranud

Mets catcher Travis d’Arnaud is now 0-for-15 with six strikeouts after failing to record a hit in three at bats in Sunday’s Mets 2-1 loss to the Reds at Citi Field.

Slow starts are nothing new for d’Arnaud, who began his career by going 1-for-15 through his first six games last season and ended up hitting .202 (20 for 99) overall.

“I’ve been through this before,” d’Arnaud said, “so I’m just going to keep my head up and keep moving forward.”

The 25-year old catcher has his manager Terry Collins somewhat worried. “It certainly is a concern if it starts to get in his head that he can’t hit at this level. That’s your biggest fear that all of a sudden someone feels they can’t do something.”

“Are you concerned? I’m worried about his mental approach more than anything.” Collins told reporters before Sunday’s game, “Travis certainly came into the season as an integral part not only of the defense, but the offense — his spot in that lineup, we gotta get some production out of it.”

“We told him he has to battle through this; go up there with a game plan and stick with it.”

D’Arnaud is coming off a spring training that saw him bat .163/.241/.388 in 49 at-bats which led Keith Hernandez to remark that he looks lost at the plate. However, TDA says he’s fine and that eventually the numbers will come.

“I feel good. Just having that short swing and keeping my eye on the ball, and they’ll start falling eventually. I still feel pretty confident, slowing everything down. That’s what I’ve been doing the past couple days. And I’ve hit a few line drives, so it’s been working out.”

Team captain David Wright pointed out that d’Arnaud hasn’t let the slump at the plate affect his defense.

“He’ll be fine,” Wright said. “He can hit. He’s hit at every level. So he’s off to a slow start. He’s caught very well, thrown some runners out, called some good games. We’ve gotten quality starts, and that’s because of Travis. Defensively, he’s done everything we’ve asked him to do, and offensively, he’ll come around, because his track record says he’s going to hit.”

For the Mets to have any shot at playing some meaningful games in September, they’ll need d’Arnaud to breakthrough in a big way this season. So far, they continue to wait for that to happen.

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  • Matt Mosher

    I’m just as concerned with Terry’s mental approach.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Should trade this kid now. Should have packaged him to Arizona for a SS.

  • Charley’s Twin

    Damn you beat me to it!

  • $14435385

    Poor planning (shocker!) on the organization’s part by not getting a veteran backup to walk him through his growing pains and take some of the pressure off d’Arnaud having to produce as an everyday guy. The man’s had all of 120 or so big league at bats and people are throwing him under the bus already…it’s absurd.

  • Alex68

    Well, just because he’s hit in the minors doesn’t mean he’ll hit in the majors. many players have great success and are highly touted in the minors up until they reach the majors where they struggle mighty i hope this is not the case with him, but so far, it’s not a good start for him…
    He struggle big time in ST and so far hasn’t gotten a hit.. i picked this kid to be the ROY but i am very concerned with him as a player.. we were told he could hit, but he hasn’t shown the ability to do anything special while in the bigs other than a few walks he’s taken…

  • Alex68

    Said this before, when you put all your eggs in one basket, you’re bound to suffer the consequences the FO had high hopes of him hitting and manning the C position and so far it’s looking like a huge mistake..

  • RyanF55

    I don’t even think he has the answer…

    http://deadspin.com/please-let-this-be-real-1559436472

  • Just_Da_damaja

    Juan Centeno

    Clap Clap

    Clap Clap Clap

    Juan Centeno

    Clap Clap

    Clap Clap Clap

    Juan Centeno

    Clap Clap

    Clap Clap Clap

    Juan Centeno

    Clap Clap

    Clap Clap Clap

    🙂

  • Hodges14

    This, coming from the guy who names Lucas Duda the EVERYDAY first baseman and then benches him after 2 games. Maybe we should all be concerned with Collins’ mental approach.

  • Peter S

    Why would a manager make this comment? TdA is a rookie who is clearly a huge part of the success/failure of the organization. TC basically just stirred up controversy with that comment for no reason. And now this idea is in every reporters interview questions. Now the pressure will build. The NY media gets their headline again.

  • Hodges14

    He’s 25 years old and this is the first time he’s made a major league team on opening day. Maybe we’re all expecting way too much from him?

  • Hodges14

    He’s not a kid. He’s 25 years old. He really needs to show he can play.

  • Hodges14

    The manager is a bonehead.

  • Peter S

    Crazy fanatics expecting too much? Nah…lol. Not our faults though. This FO built him up as the next Mike Piazza.

  • mr1313

    He hasn’t had many at bats over the past couple of seasons due to injuries so it could take him awhile.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Oh, okay. He’s not a kid to you.

  • Hodges14

    The fact that he hasn’t been able to make a team until now could also indicate it’s not as talented as he has been hyped to be. Regardless, because of the poor planning by the front office he has to play. They don’t have any veteran option to use at this point.

  • mr1313

    Don’t get me started on Terry.

  • oleosmirf

    In the world of professional sports, no a 25 year old is not a kid…

  • depressed Mets fan

    I can’t lied I am concerned, but more times than not it takes a young catcher longer to establish his bat at the big league level. He hit a couple of balls hard yesterday including that warning track shot which I think just about everyone thought was going to go yard, so hopefully that is a sign the hits will start coming in.

  • Hodges14

    Especially for a catcher. Most catchers (outside of the PED era) show a marked decline before age 35. Most of the great catchers have been very well established as major leaguers by age 25.

  • Waz0787

    TDA & Flores both are busts overhyped by mets personal. Before I get killed with comments I say this because they haven’t done nothing against big league pitching.

  • Waz0787

    1000% agree

  • Agee’s Catch

    I’m intrigued. He’s largely forgotten because of who is ahead and behind him. He’ll make them notice before too long.

  • Hodges14

    It’s still early to call either a bust. Hell, Flores is only 22. I do think this is an important year for TDA. At age 25 he has to show he can play at this level.

  • Agee’s Catch

    And when have they been given a long enough chance. Especially Flores, who literally limped through most of August and September.

  • Erin_II

    I`m far more concerned about Collins’ mental illness.

  • Hodges14

    Might be age related in Collins’ case.

  • $14435385

    Exactly. People were coming into the season saying “if he hits .270 / 20/80 that will be enough”…meaning if he’s about the third best offensive catcher in the game it’ll due. Ridiculous. But they still should have transitioned him with a veteran back up if for no other reason than to take the pressure off him having to produce 2 games in 3. The fact that we’re 6 games into the season and his manager is “concerned with his mental approach” – a rookie CATCHER, no less – shows how clueless Terry is.

  • Nolrog

    His biggest problem is that he has missed so much time over the last 4 or 5 years that he’s well behind where he should be in his development.

  • Hodges14

    Well… it’s one of the reasons.

  • Erin_II

    Or alcohol related.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Sorry he’s not Johnny Bench.

  • Hodges14

    There was enough pressure on him to begin with. He’s obviously been overhyped and now at age 25 his prospect status is in question. How many 25 year old prospects are there? Usually by that age they’ve made it or washed out. Now on top of the pressure he’s got his moron manager publicly questioning his mental approach.

  • Waz0787

    I believe mets FO knows he is a over hyped prospects reason why he is not playing at citi.

  • Hodges14

    He’s not even in the same category as Bench (there have only been a handful of catchers in MLB history who are) but most catchers who make it in the majors do so before age 25.

  • Waz0787

    Let’s see until they prove us wrong I am entitled to label them busts. Over hyped star in the making type players.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Ok.

  • Hodges14

    I’m not debating over hyped. I think the Mets have over hyped all of the prospects they have. If they were as good as they have been reported to be then they would be on the major league roster today.

  • Nolrog

    I don’t think it’s lack of talent. It’s the fact that he’s been injured every year and missed significant time in his development.

  • Agee’s Catch

    Management is a bust. Flores will be the real deal. If it happens for another team, I’ll still buy his jersey.

  • QueensRussell

    I felt that he missed the HR yesterday b/c he didn’t step into the pitch–really, didn’t move into the pitch.

  • Nolrog

    But he made solid contact, so that was a good sign.

  • Weiters is a perfect example.. Took him a while to get it going and hit ML pitching

  • seldomused

    Another example of how Collins doesn’t know how to manage young players. If you’re worried that it may get into a player’s head, don’t start talking to the media about it…because then you’re only adding fuel to the fire.

    I can almost guarantee that after TDA’s first great game, Collins will bench him “to give him a breather.”

  • NewYorkMammoths

    Terry, STEffU!!!

  • seldomused

    An 0-15 skid is rough but it isn’t all that uncommon in baseball. The problem is that he’s 0-15 in his first 15 PA.

    He had a nice cut yesterday driving a ball to the LF warning track.

  • seldomused

    Injuries kept him from making the team. He’d have been up sooner last season if he hadn’t broken his foot.

  • CyYout

    Leave it to Terry to say he’s worried and in his next breath say he doesn’t want d’Arnaud to think he’s not capable of hitting at this level. There’s really nothing to do except give the kid a few hundred at-bats to learn the league and to get that bat going. The alternative is to send him down and kill any progress he would otherwise make. Admittedly, he has looked awful, but yesterday should be a silver lining — that bat speed is still there and once he gets on top of the ball and going the other way, you’re going to see a very capable young hitter.

  • seldomused

    He’s had a couple of really good at bats the last few games, making solid contact. He just need to find the hole…his lucky should turn if he keeps hitting the ball hard.

  • somedude718

    Also, he ripped a bullet right to the 3B-man on Saturday. Right now, I think his approach is OK, but you don’t want him to start doubting himself and making too many alterations.

  • Hodges14

    He was healthy last April. He didn’t break his foot until he had already been cut and sent down to the minors.

  • seldomused

    Overhyped by Mets personnel? Read the scouting reports on both players from OUTSIDE the organization over the last 3-4 years and then try to make that argument again. Not all prospects pan out, it’s the nature of baseball. But at the same time, it’s too early to make any judgement at this point. Busts until proving you wrong is no different that considering someone as guilty until proven innocent. How about you give the kid a chance to have more than 15 at bats before you label him as anything.

  • Hodges14

    Isn’t it obvious by the W/L record that Sandy’s trades have turned the franchise around. He’s done a remarkable job in 4 offseasons. Look at the roster now compared to when he took over. You think Omar could have landed talent like John Lannan and EY for the major league roster?

  • seldomused

    Flores I’d consider more overhyped than TDA. But the jury is still out on both.

    Flores is 22 years old and rotting on the bench right now. TDA is struggling, and our manager is telling the media he’s worried about him. The organization almost wants these two guys to fail.

  • $14435385

    As several have noted above, I’m far more concerned with Terry’s mental approach than I am with anyone else’s on this team. He panics and plays not to lose, and the team reflects his mental fragility.

  • seldomused

    Or dementia related.

  • Metsaholic

    He’ll be fine. It’s way to early to be concerned.

  • Charley’s Twin

    we don’t need to pick just one

  • Helloboy

    Centano is my guy. He is a slap hitter, but he has a great OBP, rarely strikes out, and is outstanding behind the plate. His defense is game changing. 40% CS.

    I would have started him already. I can get what we hope to get out of TDA (extra power) out of Recker.

  • seldomused

    He was never cut, he was reassigned. No one expected him to make the team last year out of ST. The organization didn’t think he was ready and wanted him to have a full season in the minors where he would get every day PA. Also there’s the whole Super 2 thing.

  • seldomused

    His name has the perfect number of syllables for that. Kevin Plawecki would be a tougher chant.

  • Bob Walsh

    Nothing about the mental anguish of the collective mets fan having to watch him try and get just one hit?

  • Hodges14

    He already had over 2000 minor league plate appearances heading into spring training last year. He was a 24 year old prospect. He was healthy. He got cut from the team and then got hurt in a minor league game.

  • RyanF55

    What is his current “mental approach” and what would he like to see it changed to? His mental approach should be hitting the damn ball. I feel like d’Arnaud has been aggressive, he’s just not getting hits. Give the kid another week before completely flipping out.

  • RyanF55

    He got Syndergaard in that trade….much more important.

  • Hodges14

    We’ll see how Syndergaard does if/when he makes the major league team. Hopefully he lives up to the hype. Until then he’s an unknown also.

  • Peter S

    I felt the same way.

  • Alex68

    Ryan, again, we were told we robbed Toronto on that trade because of TDA and Noah… prospects are not a sure thing as we’ve seen in the past,

  • astoriacub

    give the kid an entire season before flipping out. Can we say small sample size?

  • therockman

    Let Recker play some more 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 ratio with Travis getting the bulk of the playing. Kid hasn’t played a full season in quite some time. It will happen. By all means he doesn’t need to be reminded of it daily like the Ike situation.

  • Andrew Herbst

    This is not a smart move by TC. He should be trying to boost TDA’s confidence, instead of publicly questioning his mental approach.

  • Hodges14

    “This is not a smart move by TC.”

    It’s TC… what were you expecting?

  • TexMet

    Maybe the Blue Jays knew something we didn’t

  • Wolfmicky21

    Which should give us confidence to trade one of ours for a MLB player. Dare I say montero for a shortstop? A pitcher is destined for TJ anyway…

  • RyanF55

    Haha agreed. There are so many knee jerk reactions to everything…we are 6 damn games into the season. He’s in a slump which originated in ST, and I think he will come around soon and start hitting. He’s already making decent contact.

  • SRT

    My thought as well.

  • seldomused

    The Blue Jays clearly didn’t know all that much giving us TDA and Syndergaard (and Thor alone at this point justifies trading Dickey)

  • Wrightstuf

    Terry Collins is a moron. Why would you even say that?! It’s his first big league season as a starter and you’re going to say that your concerned a little? For the love of god fire this guy. I’d rather see Tim Tuefel as the manager for crying out loud.

  • keith

    Uh. Dickey is doing what? Thole? Oh, and that other guy?? It seems, Sandy did pretty well.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    no

    the problem is he hit .200 in his first 30 games, he had a poor spring training and is again off to a rough start…

    and this was a gamble on the front office’s part.

    they knew that his stock would drop tremendously if he failed to launch.

    they were better off trading him and a high prospect SP for a SS.

    Moving Centeno up to C, see what he has, if nothing else to be a place holder for Plawecki.

    Now we have no SS, and are stuck waiting for Duh Nard to either prove himself or not.

  • Hodges14

    Dickey won 14 games for the Jays last year and has 1 this year. What have the guys Sandy got back done for the Mets so far?

  • RyanF55

    How has Dickey pitched since the trade? If EITHER one of Syndergaard or d’Arnaud pans out, or both, it’s a great trade. Dickey posted a 4.71 ERA last year….we offloaded an older pitcher off an unbelievable, never to be reproduced season for two top 10 prospects in their respective positions….I’d say that’s a win. Give me a break.

  • Hodges14

    Thing is, he’s 25 years old. They have to give him a chance at this point because they need to know what they have in him. Unless he turns in an Ike Davis 2013 performance you have to trot him out there every day for a good portion of the season and see what you’ve got. They gave up a lot to get him and they’ve hyped him as the catcher of the future since the trade. They need to give him a shot.

  • IndianaMet

    EY has what….one hit? With a 50% K rate and TC has no problem leading him off every game. And no, EY is not a proven veteran who has been there before. He can run fast. That’s it. TC, shut up!

  • RyanF55

    He’s smoking dope.

  • Hodges14

    yeah… that’s the ticket. I’m sure teabag will save the day.

  • BehindTheBag

    One thing I’ve noticed about Terry is he tends to provide stream of consciousness answers to these questions. He has never learned that you don’t have to answer a question like this, and you probably shouldn’t.

    Reporter: “Are you concerned about TdA’s performance so far?”
    Deflection answer (Belicheck): “No, not at all. Next question”
    Defensive answer (Parcells): “TdA is one of the most talented catchers I’ve ever seen. He’s working his tail off. I have total confidence in the kid. How dare you vultures start trying to pick him apart because he has a rough first week in his first full season. You guys disgust me. This interview is over”
    Light a fire under the slumping player answer (Parcells): “She’s working hard, I’m sure she’ll get it figured out eventually”
    Terry answer: “Sure I’m concerned….blah blah mental aspect blah blah confidence blah blah mechanics blah blah worried it goes to his head…(three paragraphs later)…but I love the kid.”

    Maybe roving minor league instructor was really this guy’s calling, and not managing a team in the world’s biggest media market.

  • This will be the name of a future non-fiction book about the Mets recent seasons.

  • Hodges14

    EY shouldn’t even be on the team but that’s a different topic. I doubt they are counting on EY as part of the future. I do believe they are counting on TDA to be here for 5 years or so.

  • BehindTheBag

    Yeah, go back and offer the trade back to TOR, see what happens?

  • Scottymike

    He’s got a point though, he has watched the guy not hit since he’s been called up, spring, and now. Is it concerning? I’d say yes a tad. His best avg as a met is .202 and with the Ike brain blow the Mets may just be a smidgen over the slow starts of what they believe should be their best talent.

  • Nolrog

    Dickey was also injured last year. Back injury or something, that limited his effectiveness.

  • BehindTheBag

    If you want to redo the trade I’m sure Toronto would be happy to oblige.

  • Alex68

    They got people who can replace EY who are either better or similar in terms of suckiness… however, there’s no viable replacement who’s either equal or better than TDA. also, EY is not part of the “future” as TDA was pegged to be….

  • Hodges14

    Time will tell. At this point Dickey has produced more for the Jays than the Mets have gotten in return. Hopefully a couple of years from now we can say it’s the other way around.

  • igotadose

    Run Recker out there. This is MLB. You’re not entitled to anything. I’m not sure him saying “I started this way last year” is anything good; it’s not like he ended the year a house afire.

    Let’s be real about the Dickey trade, too. Until Syndegaard starts getting major league players out on a regular basis for the Mets when the games count, and until D’Arnaud contributes more than, say, Josh Thole did, the Blue Jays have won this trade. Sure, we’re all hoping for the best from the prospects we acquired, but talk is cheap, let’s see some results – and if D’Arnaud can’t do it on a regular basis, send him down, find another catcher and perhaps bring him back in September.

    Unless, of course, 90 wins was just blowing smoke (*wink*). But, I like to remind my fellow zealots we have to keep riding the ownership about their 90 win promise. Running a hitless catcher out there who fields ‘o.k.’ doesn’t raise our chances of winning 90. The radio announcers have been all over D’Arnaud’s framing and fielding and pointing out flaws in his receiving. Recker and Teagarden might work better.

    Remember – Wilpons have to go. Keep reminding everyone you know about that, they’re a bunch of bankrupt thieves taking advantage of the goodwill the Met’s name has built up over the years in NYC.

  • Hodges14

    Prospects are not sure things. All I’m saying is that it is way too early to say the Mets won that trade.

  • Terry Collins is a study in saying what shouldn’t be said and not saying what should be said. His is the picture you see when you look up clueless in the dictionary though some editions show Jeffy.

  • jason bay

    Catcher was just one of numerous glaring weaknesses on this team and probably the most difficult one to fix because teams do not just give away catchers for nothing. They include them in deals for top of the line starting pitchers and closers like Halliday, Dickey, Gio, Latos and Joe Nathan.

    Lets face it, Thole and Nickeas weren’t going to cut it. d’Anaurd was the best prospect of them all and for us to have any hope he has to work out but his pedigree and skill set are positives and I am sure he will hit for catcher league average this year and take off from there.

    Give him as much time as he needs and don’t even say a word about his offense.

  • WillisReid

    C seems like the one position where guys might benefit from sitting more often due to the physical nature of the position. Maybe go to a 50/50 split with Recker for now, with Travis getting the AB’s against LHP and back of the rotation starters.

  • Alex68

    Noah hasn’t won 14 games yet… Actually, surprisingly THOLE is doing better than TDA … isn’t that ironic!?
    Listen, the trade needed to be made, i was happy we made it, but unlike many people in here who love everything sandy do regardless, i didn’t say it was a steal nor a win for the mets because we traded for prospects…
    We all know how prospects are a crap shoot, they can either pan out or don’t pan out…

  • Hodges14

    “This is MLB. You’re not entitled to anything.”

    Then how does Recker get playing time? He’s 30 years old and has never done anything.

  • RyanF55

    He is far more known than unknown. Its unanimously agreed he’s going to be filthy. Nothing is proven until he does it in the MLB, but I fully expect him to watching him pitch. His stuff is absolutely good enough to dominate ML hitters.

  • Hodges14

    So did Tim Leary and Paul Wilson. Nothing is definite. We aren’t going to know how that trade panned out for several years.

  • jason bay

    The Blue Jays have won this trade?!?!?!?

    Oh man you just make this **** up.

  • oleosmirf

    Very true, but prospects that highly regarded are much more likely to succeed than fail. Sure, not every top 25 prospect will be an everyday player in the end, but most will be and good percentage at an all-star level.

    The odds of the collection of players we received significantly outperforming what Toronto received are still very high, even if it is not an absolute sure thing.

    Then again, Dickey repeating his flukey CY season was not a sure thing either.

  • Hodges14

    What do you expect to get from Recker?

  • Off topic, and this may have come up elsewhere as I’ve been away from here for a few days, am I the only one hoping that Alderson started working the phones the minute after Ike hit the granny and ever since? His value will never again this season be as high as it was in the moments after that game.

  • IndianaMet

    I agree 100 pct, that’s why TC needs to shut up and let him play. He doesn’t need the added pressure from his idiot boss to get him going. Hopefully TDA is the future in Queens. Its just ironic that TC is worried about TDA and the future but not the present. Aint gonna happen running the same has beens out there as last year. If a prospect struggles, you let him work it out over time. If he ultimately fails, so be it. If a “veteran” who has never been successful in the majors, ever, fails, you dump him and try a prospect. 90 wins. Pffft.

  • Hodges14

    no one has won this trade yet. It’s just too early to make a judgement on it. The Jays are getting production last year and now but it may be different 4 years from now.

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    Definitely believe there’s some psychology involved when you consider that TC could never crack the majors. It’s entirely possible that somewhere in his psyche he wants the kids to fail. Yes, I know it’s crazy talk, but how else can you explain this guy?

  • igotadose

    Neither is the 2d coming of Johnny Bench so far. It’s who’s on the roster – Recker and D’Arnaud are about the same so far. D’Arnaud’s gotten the bulk of the AB’s this year, lets try Recker for awhile. Maybe he’ll blossom this year, you never know. Like I said, “might” work better. Likewise, Centeno might. But, D’Arnaud’s not entitled to hold the position forever simply because he was featured in a trade.

  • Alex68

    Lmao, wow… the excuses being thrown out in this thread are amazing….
    He made nice contact yesterday
    He’s missed too much time
    it’s only 130 at bats
    It took other players longer to start hitting….

    My goodness… people, the kid is talented, we get it, but whatever he did in the minors is irrelevant because at this point, he’s not a minor leaguer anymore. he’s a 25 year old catcher who’s supposed to be a big part of this team’s success going forward, nothing wrong with being concern because, the thing he was supposed to do which is hitting he’s not doing it…
    again, i like the kid, but i am a realist, i also now he’s a prospect who may or may not pan out. we all wanted a veteran catcher because of that, in case he’s struggling, that veteran presence could’ve step in and help him out.

  • Andrew Herbst

    Exactly. I can’t expect TC to make smart decisions.

  • jason bay

    He’s only played what, 4 games this year? He doesn’t look great at the plate but he’s handling his defensive responsibilities and he’ll get going with the stick at some point and then not look back.

  • Hodges14

    Recker’s 30 years old. He is what he is, and that’s not much. You have to give TDA playing time because he’s the only viable option they have to be the starting catcher. They didn’t think it was important to get a veteran in here to backup TDA so he’s going to play.

  • Alex68

    LMAO!!! Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight! because that’s what was being said about him… i thought he was gonna be the next Johnny Bench, what happened!? F0H…. do you realize we’re one of the worst teams pitching wise?! how is he handling his defensive responsibilities!? pass balling, the bullpen is the worst…
    Ohhhh, but wait.. he’s a sandy acquisition, so in your eyes when things go well, he’s awesome, when they don’t it’s everyone else’s fault… nvm..

  • astoriacub

    .252/.295/.358 with a 70 OPS+ in his first full season. Guess who that player is.

  • oleosmirf

    Two points:

    1) In that case, shouldn’t the same logic apply to your favorite prospects as well (aka Flores) who has also not performed at the ML level.

    2) What veteran catcher would you have signed taking into the account the forced-upon financial limitations.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014-mlb-free-agent-tracker

  • Alex68

    Lmao, @ the second coming of Johhny bench… man, when i saw that i went ballistic in here, the disrespect of some HOF ball players is just ridiculous…

  • NewYorkMammoths

    Actually, Johnny Bench had a worse record in his call-up season:

  • Alex68

    Oleo, i was high as hell on familia too… guess what, you don’t even hear me talking about him anymore because i realize he wasn’t as good as i thought he’d be… if someone says he’s not that good right now or whatever, i step back and while maybe i don’t agree, i won’t go ballistic as some people do in here for saying TDA is just not as good as advertise right now…

  • astoriacub

    they’re never as good or as bad as you want them to be, Alex

  • Hodges14

    Johnny Bench was 19 years old. TDA is 25 and has over 2000 minor league plate appearances.

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    Right now, he’s not even Jerry Grote, but Grote you’ll remember was also 25 before he became a productive hitter. I think we need to let the kid play and take his lumps. Please understand this will not be a 90-win season. It’s still about the future such as it is…

  • Mike Lloyd

    Too early to sound the alarms-That being said-Travis could end up like a lot of blue chippers’–as a bust. Some guys-for whatever reason-their talent just doesn’t translate to MLB. I will say that he seems to have a longer leash than most younger players the Mets have brought up in the recent past…you do have to question whether this is an edict from the F.O…is that because this management has to justify it’s evaluation of the player? It’s a fair question…

  • Denelor

    FFS. Can we just let the kid play for a half season before we over-analyze him into the GD abyss. Please? Pretty please?

    Why on earth they have Collins, a veteran-first, never-gotten-anything-from-young-guys style manager running a team of mostly young guys is beyond me.

    It’s ludicrous.

  • Alex68

    Wrong again…. in his first 83 at bats Darnaud was as bad… 6 years older too…
    169 BA 1 HR 4 RBI 476 OPS

  • jason bay

    Sorry Hodges but while you are right about production so far at the Major League level there is a world of difference between the present day values of RA, NS and TDA so that represents a clear win that we can chalk up right now.

    As for what little Major League production we have gotten, that has to be counter balanced by the less than expected performance by RA.

    The trade is a clear win by any measureable criteria.

  • Denelor

    That he’s just not very talented? He’s in over his head?

  • RyanF55

    It was a great trade – we sent them an aged, over-the-hill starter who’s value was never higher for two universally agreed upon great prospects. You can’t turn around an aged player for anything better, ESPECIALLY one that hadn’t even been good for multiple years. We raped Toronto…

  • Denelor

    No, by all means, start. I love a good TC thrashing and am always on the lookout for new material myself.

    He’s awful.

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    Sure, but that’s surface stuff…:)

  • MetsWatchman

    Should have packaged him to Arizona for a SS…….sounds good, but then we’d need a catcher. I wouldn’t have any confidence moving forward with Recker, Teagarden, Centeno or Plaweki right now. Either way it’s a crapshoot. I say Davis’ $3.5mil should have gone towards funding a SS.

  • Opti-Mets-tic

    As unfair a comparison as Johnny Bench is for Travis d’Arnaud. Johnny bench hit .163/.207/256 in 93 PA his call up season. Travis hit .202./.286/.263 in 112 PA in his call up season. FWIW, Bench hit .213 in April in his first season, and didn’t get a hit for the first few games.

  • oleosmirf

    I just think it’s silly to write d’Arnaud off when he’s such a highly regarded prospect and has played so few games in his ML career. I also think it’s equally silly to completely ignore his poor production since his debut and say it’s nothing to be worried about.

    We should be worried about his play, but at the same time, it’s April 7th where Yangervis Solarte is the best hitter on the Yankees and Carlos Beltran is the worst.

  • Hodges14

    Actually, if you had to take a snapshot today it would say the Jays have won the trade by measurable criteria. But again, I’ll stick with saying it’s just too early to judge.

  • RyanF55

    …Obviously Dickey’s produced more….Syndergaard hasn’t even toed an MLB rubber yet…

  • oleosmirf

    The team isn’t full of young guys though. That’s the problem.

    They’re not ready yet…

  • dealingwithidiots

    You mean he’s a sandy acquisition so lets hate on him no matter what.

  • Jgreen

    I have to agree on TC about this. He has to battle through it by himself. But in order to do it, he needs more time at least a month or few. Just think about the upside of him being of able to breaking his shell. He can be Yadier Molina with more power. It is worth investing.

  • Sach

    You have to give it some time. There’s a lot on a catcher’s plate. Even Yadier Molina took awhile and a bunch of PA before hitting to his potential in MLB. Encouraged that Travis has shortened his swing some and his hand eye coordination AB seems a bit better after working with Hudgens.

  • Alex68

    You mean he’s a sandy acquisition so lets love him no matter what.

  • metstastic

    It is way too early to give up on this kid.. I think he needs to go to AAA and gain some confidence back.

  • WillisReid

    Not much more. But hopefully TdA would be in a more advantageous situation and the bat would pick up.

    Nowhere to go but up from here.

  • oleosmirf

    I think Flores is highly relevant since Alex has stated on multiple occasions he believes Wilmer will have a better career than Wright

    Yet, according to his own logic, we can’t treat him as the next great thing since he’s never done it at the ML level.

  • Alex68

    Agree… problem is, he didn’t hit last year, not ST this year and so far he’s 0- fer on the season. at some point those 15 at bats become 30 then 50 then 100 then 200 and we still waiting for him to break out…

  • Alex68

    Did i say better!? i can def see him putting up his 15+ HR and 60+ RBI which is what Wright did last year… wouldn’t you say!?

  • Jeff

    I agree that we have to give D’Arnaud a fair chance and a half dozen games is not that. However, Plawecki can make his way to Vegas later this season with a strong AA start, and be ready sometime in 2015 for the majors. So D’Arnaud has to know he’s gotta play well this season. I think we should allow Travis a chance to work it out in the majors for now, however Recker needs to get some more starts. We have to get some offense out of the catchers spot.

  • keith

    Ok. How many did he lose? Uh, what was his era? How did he do in his first start? Come on. I liked the guy, but that was a no brainer. Don’t argue just to argue.

  • Alex68

    But then again, wright hasn’t hit over 25 since 2010… not sure where the 25 are coming from.. he may as well vanished in the second half like he did in 2012, who knows.
    About flores, i love the kid, but he needs to prove it in the bigs, i think he can, but that’s just my opinion….

  • Mets Fan in NC

    Am I ready to give up on the kid? Nope
    Am I worried? Yup
    If TDA is still batting around 200 at the ASB, we have a big problem

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    The Mets can live with someone like Recker and a veteran (which we should have signed) if it means upgrading SS. Granted it’s all minor league potential, but Plawecki looks very good.

    Ideally, we’d have signed Drew, but if it came to giving up TDA for a SS, I’d do it no problem.

  • Hodges14

    How did he do in his second start? You’re arguing about what you HOPE the trade will turn out to be. I’m not saying this as a put-down to TDA or Syndergaard but the fact is as of today the Mets have gotten absolutely nothing from that trade. I’ll say it again, it’s way too early to judge that trade.

  • Hodges14

    Regardless of Plawecki, TDA is 25 years old. His time is now. No one is looking for a 26 year old prospect.

  • Hodges14

    We have lots of big problems. TDA could be one of them.

  • TPT

    still batting .200? ummm hes has to get to .200 in order to still be batting that at the ASB

  • prosoundz

    Though I give credit to Sandy on the Wheeler, Syndergaard, d’Arnaud trade and drafting Montero as well as Puello. I think he should’ve done more to start plugging the major league roster with positional players. Guys like Puig, Cespedes and Abreu were available for a bargain price yet he threw money at guys like Francisco, Rauch, Carrasco, even now with C Young. Sandy’s goal should’ve been trying to plug at least one top prospect or young MLB talent at a position of need every off-season.

  • keith

    They got the best deal possible. The Jays went all in. They blew it. They gave the Mets 2 of their best prospects. That’s how it works. Nothing is ever a guarentee. They got the 1 and 3 prospect. That’s pretty darn good.

  • Mets Fan in NC

    Collins should be worried about the mental approach of his whole offense. Through 6 games we look a lot like last years team. Very few consistent hitters. Walks (and OBP) go up when the pitcher respects the hitters ability to hit. The skill to do damage with the bat puts pressure on the pitcher to go out of the zone increasing walks. Murphy is the ONLY guy on the team that I have faith in to get the bat on the ball in a key spot. Granderson needs to tome down that swing a little or he will K 200 times

  • Alex68

    drafting Montero as well as Puello”

    Wrong and Wrong… Montero was only signed by them but he was already a met when they came on board, Puello’s been a met since 2007

  • prosoundz

    Meanwhile….Jose Abreu is batting .417 with a double triple and 5 rbi’s.

  • Agee’s Catch

    Flores was in Vegas last night. Went 1-4

  • Mets Fan in NC

    Stockpiling pitchers is great but you need to trade some to fill other holes. Parnell could have brought us back a Castallanos from the Tigers last year.

  • metsman

    If he was doing well would people be saying “it’s only 100 something AB’s, he really actually stinks”?

  • prosoundz

    I know he wasn’t a fit for us. I’m just saying. Lol

  • mets4lyfe

    Too early to draw any sort of significant conclusions. I’ll give him another 25 or so games to see if this is something more than just bad luck.

  • Mets Fan in NC

    But we have Bobby….we completely screwed up 1B

  • TPT

    and a young pitching prospect wasnt worth it for Trumbo (5HRS)

  • prosoundz

    My bad…Cudos to Omar AGAIN. Lol

  • Mets Fan in NC

    The only way he is still playing in the bigs is if he is batting 200. Under that by the break he will be in Vegas

  • RS

    Syndergaard alone has more value than Dickey does right now. It didn’t help the Jays that Dickey was at best average last season, and did not start off well this year. EVERY GM would rather have TDA and Noah over Dickey at the time the trade was made, and probably even more so now. Mets could bring up Noah tomorrow and he would probably out-produce Dickey.

  • metsman

    I don’t think he has played well defensively, but as long Wright thinks he has, he can just keep passing balls and throwing to the wrong side of second base.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    Well Flores was looking more like a good successor to Wright than Travis was to anyone not named Charlie O Brian.

    RIght now

    Flores >>>> TDA

  • RS

    He said he’s concerned that that lack of hits could weigh on him mentally. Everyone knows this, not saying it, or dancing around the question does nothing.

  • prosoundz

    I was dieing for us to make that trade. Relievers are faaar less important that a chance at getting a hitting machine even if he was unproven.

  • Old School Mets Fan

    He needs half a season to be evaluated. But remember, Jesus Montero was the #1 rated catching prospect in 2011 and he’s now in Tacoma. I am convinced that half of minor league development is devoted to hyping your team’s prospects.

  • keith

    We got 2 out of 3 of their top 3 prospects. That’s a darn good start. No one has a crystal ball. We traded Dickey, 38, to a team trying to win it all. They gave us a lot. Nothings a guarantee, but the odds are pretty good.

  • jason bay

    But RA hasn’t been any better than the average Major League starter and TDA and NS have a fairly high, at least perceived value right now so if you put all three on the block today, I’d value them 1) NS, 2) TDA and 3) RA

  • Alex68

    Nope, we’d have him down our throats along with Sandy is the greatest GM of all time sauce…

  • joeyd1966

    Puello and Montero were international free agents not draft picks but Puello was signed in 2007 and Montero was signed in 2011. He was passed over by Omar’s people so Omar only gets kudo’s for Puello.

  • RyanF55

    I see a lot of talk about Abreu, Trumbo etc. and their home runs totals here on April 7th. Does anyone remember a certain John Buck, who belted 9 HRs in April? How’d that end up? Let’s take a deep breath for once, give the kid a couple weeks before saying how absolutely horrible his career will be.

  • Hodges14

    Agreed, there is no such thing as a “sure thing”.

  • Mets Fan in NC

    Montero ate six plates of arroz con pollo every night Montero ate himself out the game. There is only one Panda and best not to emulate him

  • Metropolitan

    I’m worried about Collins mental approach to managing

  • RyanF55

    d’Arnaud was hyped before we acquired him though. He was moved for two Cy Young winners, so he was obviously thought of very highly.

  • Hodges14

    Did you see the graphic on Trumbo over the weekend? Since the beginning of the 2011 season, he is 3rd in MLB in homeruns. Trumbo is not just about the first week in this season.

  • joeyd1966

    Montero wasn’t already a Met he was passed over during the 2010 signing period. There were over a dozen players signed, none named Montero. He was signed in 2011 so he wasn’t already a Met, Puello was. Probably the reason why Ismeal Cruz wasn’t brought back besides being awful at IFA signings.

  • Hodges14

    Thing that bothers me is for someone who was supposedly thought of that highly, why is it that at age 25 he’s accomplished nothing in the majors?

  • metsman

    “Value” like the kind you are talking about is not a measurable criteria. Using any metric, the Jays have results and we do not. You just can’t wrap your head around the idea that there is a possibility that neither TdA or Syndergaard pan out, but it’s real. What’s more valuable 100 dollars or a lottery ticket?

  • Alex68

    Just wondering, many people wanted to give sandy a built in statue in citi field for making the trade.. some called it a robberry etc…
    Now that the kid is struggling, one cannot point that out because we’re saying his career will be horrible!? i don’t think anyone has used the word he’s done or that his career is over or will be terrible, i do see however a lot of so far he’s not that great comments, which is okay to say at this point no?
    You guys use the double standard to your advantage..
    If the kid does good, i don’t even think he gets the credit, everything would’ve been Sandy this and Sandy that…
    Now that he’s struggling, we’re not mets fans because we’re attacking a player because he’s struggling..

  • Hodges14

    The highly regarded prospect thing doesn’t mean that much but it’s silly to write off any player after 1 week. If he’s still hitting below .200 in June then we have one more issue to deal with.

  • RyanF55

    Valid point, one that I don’t have an answer for. Some guys take longer to devleop, but yeah if he’s the #1, it should have happened already. I take prospect rankings with a grain or salt, always though.

  • Hodges14

    Not sure that perceived trade value is a measurable criteria.

  • Hodges14

    EVERY GM would rather have TDA and Noah over Dickey at the time the trade was made

    That is obviously a complete fabrication since the trade was made. Again, I’m not saying that in the long run the trade won’t work out for the Mets. All I’m saying is that it’s way too early to judge. So far the Mets have not reaped any benefits from the trade. That’s a fact.

  • Hodges14

    It’s not just that TDA is struggling, it’s also that Syndergaard has yet to make the team. The Mets end of this deal is still a total question mark. The people who argue otherwise are envisioning what they hope that TDA and Syndergaard will turn out to be and stating that it will definitely happen. We all know that when it comes to prospects there is no such thing as a sure thing.

  • Alex68

    I was getting mocked for saying we should’ve traded Wright for him and Bourjos…
    Trumbo at 1B & Flores at 3B > Wright at 3B & Davis/Duda/Satin at 1B

  • Mets Fan in NC

    I was trying to forget John Buck. Thankfully Marlon Byrd is off to a slow start of the commenters would be saying Sandy was an idiot for not bring him back. Buck and Byrd for Black and Herrera could turn out to be a great trade is/when Black finds his control

  • jason bay

    Your probably the only one who thought he was going to be Johnny Bench and if someone else convinced you of that then your not too bright.

    The guy’s got 1 PB and 1 WP, 1 SB and 1 CS. Not great but certainly not in the class of a Josh Thole or something.

    We’ve gotten 4 quality starts, yes I know a dubious stat but nontheless indicative of being in the game through 6 innings. As for the bullpen it’s been Torres, Lannan and Rice who have been bad and their just book marks. Familia is a young guy getting broken in with just 1.1 IP and Parnell was apparently pitching hurt in his appearance so how has d’Anaurd not been doing the job defensively at least decently?

    Your hatred of Alderson and anyone he acquired is blinding you to the facts.

  • RyanF55

    Ignorance is bliss Alex. The trade brought back Syndergaard and d’Arnaud, and therefore should be evaluated that way. It was a robbery…we gave them a knuckleball pitcher, at nearly 40, coming off one decent season in a career of struggle who has since fought injury posting a high 4+ ERA. We got back two top-flight prospects for a now marginal, likable veteran. Did you want Dickey resigned? I don’t understand your gripe, your argument has no foundation. Its 6 games into d’Arnaud’s first season starting behind the dish, and you’re ready to write him off? You want instant gratification I guess?

    Also, the frequent use of “You guys” – what the F does that even mean? I’m very critical of a lot of moves Sandy has done/hasn’t done, so that’s just an ignorant baseless statement. Read some of my comments or Fan Shots to see that evidence. Nobody uses double standard – the grade on that trade is yet to be seen. You can’t determine if it was good or not for years after it was made, because it wasn’t’ a player for a player, it was a player for two great prospects. Even if d’Arnaud doesn’t do anything in the MLB and Syndergaard produces at an Ace like level, it’s a GREAT trade. d’Arnaud producing is icing on the cake.

  • jaygreen55

    Injuries have hampered his development

  • jdon48

    Warren Spahn got his first win at 26.

  • Alex68

    Ismael Cruz was not brought back because sandy wanted his son and his people aboard. Cruz gave us many good players including montero and puello and Flores and Lagares etc…

  • Hodges14

    The fact that Trumbo was available this winter and the Mets whiffed on him is another failure. This guy could have ended up at first base or left field and been a major improvement over what we have at either position.

  • Hodges14

    Warren Spahn was a pitcher who pitched until age 44. Catcher’s have a slightly different career path.

  • jason bay

    I’m not doing that. I’m stating that TDA, NS and Buccera have a higher value right now then RA, Thole and Nickeas.

    Whether that higher perceived value translates at some point is a totally different issue but for the time being the Mets have added a ton of value over what they gave up.

  • Hodges14

    Or it could turn out to be a wash. That’s the thing with prospects, especially very young prospects like Herrera. You just don’t know.

  • tomterrif

    Here’s the reason why the daily analysis of this stuff and total impatience with young players is so crazy: I give you the case of Jerry Grote, perhaps the third best Mets catcher in their history and perhaps the best defensive catcher in their history. First three year batting averages when he played more than 100 games each season: .181, .237, .195, with an OPS in 1967 of under .500. Gil Hodges becomes manager in 1968 and works to shorten Grote’s swing for the fences approach and he becomes a solid, if not spectacular hitter for the next 11 years. So can we please calm down on d’Arnaud and let the kid get a couple of months in this season before we give up on him, especially when the kid can really catch?

  • Hodges14

    they’re as ready as the guys currently at Citi Field.

  • Hodges14

    Now go back and look at what age Grote was when he played those games. He didn’t have 5+ years in the minors to develop. He was doing it at the major league level.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Joe D.,
    I forgot who mentioned this but there was talk about Travis’ injuries mounting up on him and taking it’s toll on his ability to perform as he used to in the minors.

  • Hodges14

    But there is no guarantee that Syndergaard is going to produce at Ace like level.

    That’s why it’s too early to judge this trade from the Mets’ perspective.

  • jdon48

    I don’t notice any real approach at all at this point. He looks confused. I remember McCarver saying once that no hitter can cover the entire plate in an at-bat. Unless Jack Fisher is pitching, maybe, but I am dating myself. But his point was that you have to pick a half: middle in or middle out. D’Arnaud might be doing that, but you cannot change from pitch to pitch. You have to stick with it. You can change from at bat to at bat and you should. But if you try to go pitch by pitch, the pitcher will almost always outguess you. Plus as a hitter you not only have to deal with location, but also velocity and spin. To me, D’Arnaud looks like he is guessing. He is standing there watching good pitches go by. Lately he looks a little better. It is still way too early to tell. Lat year he came up and his mind was full of opposing hitters and learning the defensive side, which is the catcher’s first responsibility. The Mets have no one to step in, either. We will have to wait him out. I cannot get over how small the guy looks. Are his physical stats bogus?

  • prosoundz

    Cudos to Omar for Puello that’s what I meant. I need to start being more specific.

  • RyanF55

    It’s this simple…what would you rather have moving forward?

    Syndergaard, dArnaud
    Dickey, Thole, Nickeas

    If you answer the latter, I can’t discuss it any further. Thole? Nickeas? a 100 year old Dickey? Please.

  • tomterrif

    Good point, Gil, but all the more reason we’ve got to give d’Arnaud some time to show us if he can handle the bigs. I’m betting the answer will be yes.

  • RyanF55

    Awesome, and I agree. But the difference? (At least for me) Gil Hodges vs. Dave Hudgens 🙁

  • Hodges14

    I agree that killing TDA based on 1 week is nuts. But at age 25 he needs to prove that he belongs this season. His time is now.

  • prosoundz

    Not for nothing. He looks really small. I hope he can over come and start hitting.

  • Hodges14

    We all do and judging him on 1 week is not fair. Let’s hope he establishes himself as a competent major league catcher during 2014.

  • tomterrif

    Good point, Ryan. LOL. Hudgens is showing me nothing with a whole roster of hitters who can’t stop striking out.

  • Hodges14

    It’s a possible contributing factor but going into the 2013 (his age 24) season he already had over 2000 minor league plate appearances. That would seem to be plenty if he was a top prospect.

  • Hodges14

    Those were not the only 2 options. But again, we’ll have to see as things play out over the next few seasons. It’s certainly not out of the question that a knuckleballer can pitch effectively until age 45.

  • jason bay

    What would Trumbo and Bourjos have cost though?

    Gee and Murphy or Gee and Flores, maybe Flores and Lagares so you would have to subtract that out of the equation.

  • Joey D.

    HI Hodges,
    It might also be a question of too much expectations being put on many prospects due to the pronounced pressure they now get by being plastered all over the internet and media whereas two decades ago they were known but never put under the microscope while in the minors like we see today.
    Then there is the additional pressure of the Mets “overselling” the prospects they obtained. Remember Zack Wheeler was going to be our “ace” whereas now he looks like he could become a good but not spectacular middle of the rotation starter who also will not go deep into games because he still has not mastered his control problems.
    Not to mention how the Mets were hyping Vic Black as the set-up man for the now injured Parnell when he was really seen as one who was quite wild and therefore quite unreliable.
    With Thor he seems like he can be a real great addition but as you say, he has not yet made the team and we have to wait until he is into at least his second MLB season to judge the trade. Nobody will deny that the trade in itself was not worth the gamble, but that does not mean already concluding it was a steal and that Sandy again “outsmarted” his rival GMs. So far, we gave up a continued all-star outfielder for one who appears to be a decent starter which is not “outsmarting” anybody – it was giving up something to get something back. We lost out on getting anyone of quality for Angel Pagan. Dickey has been a disappointment for Toronto but so far so has d’Arnaud and we do not know what Noah will be. Black does not know how to hit the black.

  • RyanF55

    Agreed

  • joeyd1966

    I don’t know if I’d say many good players. Not one of them has done anything at the major league level. Lagares is a great glove but we’ll have to wait and see if he can hit at this level. The other three are just prospects until they prove otherwise. You have to admit that from 2005-2014 we don’t have one IFA that has become a mainstay on this team. Sandy’s son is not the one who replaced Cruz by the way.

  • Hodges14

    For a power hitter in his prime for a team that desperately needs power that doesn’t seem too outrageous.

  • jaygreen55

    Some players develop more slowly than others. That doesn’t establish their ceiling. Mike piazza had 2055 minor league plate appearances before he broke in and turned out pretty good. Travis started his minor league career at 18

  • Hodges14

    Exactly, I haven’t argued with the trade. All I’ve said is that it’s way too early to judge this trade from the Mets’ perspective. At this point they have reaped no benefits from the trade.

  • Hodges14

    Not disputing that. But at what age is a prospect no longer a prospect? Certainly, there have been countless major league players that have been allstars, won MVP awards, gold gloves, championships, etc by the time they were TDA’s age.

  • wwdwd

    Wat r u talkin about flores first 13 games last year b4 he got injured was awesome

  • oleosmirf

    No chance in hell Detroit would have done that deal.

  • Destry

    Terry sure knows how to create confidence problems for his players.

  • Flatbush0460

    It’s not like we’re talking about Mackey Sasser here. The kids defense is good enough to keep him in the lineup his bat comes around. Obviously we’d like to have a better overall offense to carry him and a weak hitting shortstop, but he’s our best long term option at the position, and don’t talk to about Plawecki, he’s not in the same class defensively, and let’s face it, catcher is a defense first position in this league. He was was good enough to give up Dickey for, and we’re not exactly winning the division this season, so let’s give the kid a chance to get going. It’ll happen, he’s too talented for it not to.

  • Destry

    Yeah because there is no way he can improve at age 26.

  • jason bay

    Might be but 3 years of Gee and 6 years of Flores is a lot to give up for three years of Trumbo.

  • Destry

    Even if he turns out to be a backup C, it was still a good trade.

  • Hodges14

    I didn’t say he needs to win the MVP this year. But he does need to prove himself. There’s no such thing as a 26 year old prospect. At that age they are called busts.

  • Hodges14

    Giving up a Cy Young award winner for a backup catcher is a good trade?

  • Hodges14

    Is Trumbo going to turn into a pumpkin in 3 years?

  • Alex68

    Setting the bar lower and lower i see…

  • oleosmirf

    Meanwhile….Ike Davis is batting .500 with a double, HR and 4 RBI

  • Alex68

    Flores and Gee!? Done…. That means we probably have no CY and no Ike Davis on the team, saving about $10 mill that could’ve been use on the bulpen… mind you, i love both Gee and Flores, but a young power hitter and possibly a good leadoff hitter is worth the trade sometimes.

  • Old School Mets Fan

    This was a trade I would have made, but it was nowhere near a robbery. Some wanted to do Dickey for d’Arnaud straight up. I would fire a GM for making such a trade. Syndegaard was what made it reasonable.
    Dickey had more than one decent season. He had a 2.84 ERA in 27 starts in 2010; a 3.28 ERA in 2011 and his Cy Young Award season in 2012. Even last year 14-13 with a 4.21 ERA and pitched 230 innings in the A.L. East in a hitter’s park. Knuckleball pitchers tend to pitch well into their 40s. Dickey was 38 at the time of the trade. You would figure he’d have a reasonable chance of 5-7 effective seasons and worse case scenario is an innings eater. That was not worth just a catching prospect. If Noah comes as advertised, then it’s a good trade.

  • Hodges14

    Terry is a moron. But this is a big year for TDA.

  • jason bay

    I disagree that TDA and Noah are lottery tickets so that is not a far comparison.

    My point is right now, at this moment, which players would command more of a return if they were put on the block?

    I have it 1) Noah, 2) TDA and 3) RA so if I’m correct about this than that is a measurable criteria and the timeline on who was more likely to produce results first was part of the the value the Blue Jays received in the trade just like the risk of non development of TDA or Noah was.

    Toronto got more upfront and more certainty of performance, we got more upside and longetivity but as it stands right now we have unloaded less value than we got back if all the players involved were put on the market tomorrow and even from a production standpoint RA has been overall no better than average at best.

  • Alex68

    It wouldn’t if the goal was indeed 90 wins… at this pace we’ll get there in 2017… just in time to say good bye to Harvey and prob Wheeler…

  • R04

    So all 26 year old’s that havent lit it up in the majors are busts? Just

  • #hashtag

    I think a lot of the so called “mental issues” with these players could be alleviated if Collins would just shut his trap!

  • Be interesting to hear what exactly Collins feels he needs to improve, or what mindset he feels the kid needs to have, but doesn’t already. Mental approach sounds like hogwash. Find out what he isn’t doing, and help him learn to do it. If he’s thinking too much out there, simplify the hitting approach and/or his stance, and let him get to work in the box…instead of getting lost in his own thoughts and stinking it up.

  • R04

    I usually like your posts, not this time though (respectfully).

    Whatever happens with Thor or Travis, it was still a good trade that had to be made. We were not going to give Dickey the contract he was looking for, so basically we gave up Dickey(for a year, in which we were in no way competing) for potentially 10+ years of ML production at way lower costs. Also, lets not forget about the other piece we got in that trade that can potentially produce years from now at a high level. It was a GREAT trade IMO.

  • Hodges14

    Guys who were supposedly top prospects most often make a mark by age 25. I don’t think that’s a shocking statement.

  • Metropolitan

    Trumbo has a history though he hit 29 32 and 34 homeruns the last three years,don’t compare him to Buck situation who does not have that sort of history who we all knew was playing way over his head ,Trumbo definitely has the potential to have a 40 homerun season

  • Hodges14

    I didn’t say it was GREAT or NOT GREAT. Or, that they shouldn’t have made the trade. All I said was that it’s too early to tell.

  • jason bay

    When Trumbo’s years of team control are up he is free to negotiate with anyone he wants same as Gee. If your able to re-sign him that’s great but there is no guarantee that you will be able to do so.

    We didn’t re-sign Olerud after the ’99 season or Bradford after 2006, Reyes after 2011, Straw after ’91, Fonzie after ’02, Hampton after ’00 so when you make a trade all your guaranteed is the rest of the team control years.

    You know that.

  • Hodges14

    Olerud wanted to go play closer to home. The Mets didn’t want to pay Strawberry and it turned out to be the correct decision. They totally screwed up the Reyes situation because they should have traded him but they can always do that with Trumbo if it looks like he doesn’t want to come back. At some point they have to start acting like a major league team. Trumbo is exactly what they needed this winter.

  • oleosmirf

    Actually if you look at the value of the trade, the Mets have already “won” the Dickey trade at the ML level.

    While the Mets did lose Dickey, they replaced him in the rotation with Hefner (and then Mejia and Dice-K) who was arguably just as good. Hefner would not be starting, but for the Dickey trade.

    Hefner and Dickey had identical WARs according to fangraphs (0.3).
    Buck had a WAR of 1.6 wheras Thole was -0.5

    And in 2014, he takes the rotation spot of Mejia (or more likely they don’t sign Colon).

  • jason bay

    Trading Gee could very well hurt the effort to win 90 too.

    The pitching is a little fragile as it stands right now with Niese, Colon, Mejia, Dice K, Lannan and who knows where the next injury comes from?

    Pelfrey and Harvey were the last guys I would have thought would go down but they did. Say the other piece in a Trumbo trade was either Lagares or Flores, what happens if Young, MDD or Wright were to go down?

    Trading for Trumbo would not have been a straight add. It would have been an add AND subtract and your only counting the add column.

  • Hodges14

    Isn’t Colon signed for 2014 and 2015?

  • oleosmirf

    What’s your point?

  • Hodges14

    Maybe I’m reading this wrong:

    And in 2014, he takes the rotation spot of Mejia (or more likely they don’t sign Colon).

    Are you saying they don’t sign Colon this winter if they had Dickey? If so, would that be a bad thing? That would have left them money to address SS or 1B or LF?

  • Destry

    No, that money would’ve went to Dickey.

  • Destry

    Wouldn’t you rather hear a vote of confidence from your manager than have him questioning your ability, and have you question your own confidence? If you believe in someone, sometimes they do things they normally couldn’t. If you question them, which in turn makes them question themselves, it does nothing but harm 100% of the time.

  • Hodges14

    Yes, absolutely. Terry is an idiot. He’s passive aggressive with all of the young players. He is a poor choice to manage this team. Having said all of that. TDA has a golden opportunity… he needs to take advantage of it. Hopefully he will step it up.

  • Destry

    He had one year left on his contract, and we got Buck for a year, TDA, Noah Syndergaard and OF prospect Wilmer Buccera. So, yes.

  • jason bay

    The point is Trumbo will have something to say about whether he’s re-upped here if he had been traded and that is 50% up to him and like Olerud, he may want to go home (California) too and that would mean trading him prior to or at the deadline in 2016 which just so happens to be when we should be sporting a rotation of Harv, Wheel, Mont, Synder, Mejia/Ynoa/Mateo/Fulmer/Matz/

    It would also preclude using Gee and Flores (or whatever the trade could have been) to address a more difficult position to fill and a bigger need moving forward like SS or LH power hitting corner OFer (because we know Granderson will not go on forever and it is useless to count on just one prospect (Nimmo in this case) for every need.

  • Destry

    No, its not, because Dickey has been a #4 since the trade.

  • Destry

    What was his rank in OBP or Avg?

  • oleosmirf

    It’s quite simple, if the Mets keep Dickey, then you have Dickey in the rotation in 2013, 2014 and 2015 instead of Hefner (13), Colon (14) and Colon (15 if still here)

    You would judge how d’Arnaud and Colon (plus Noah) do this season compared to Dickey and Thole to evaluate that trade at the ML level.

    So far, the Mets are ahead, or at the very least on par.

  • Destry

    We are 3rd in HRs. We don’t need power. We need OBP & Avg. We are dead last in both.

  • jason bay

    I don’t think there is a single Met or Blue Jay fan that doesn’t think this trade was a clear win for the Mets and I’m sure that goes for everyone in the baseball industry as well.

  • Hodges14

    So you’re going to extrapolate 1 week and say we’re ok on power. Interesting analysis.

  • oleosmirf

    He questioned his approach, not his talent level. You can change an approach (see Juan Lagares). You can’t change substandard talent.

  • Destry

    He lost all of his age 23 & 24 seasons to injury

  • Hodges14

    The guy that should have been traded was Niese, instead of Dickey. There were reports that Toronto would have done the same deal for Niese that they did for Dickey. Dickey > Niese.

  • Destry

    No HRs?

  • Hodges14

    He was healthy during his age 23 and 24 spring trainings and didn’t make his major league team in either instance.

  • jason bay

    And that’s with the timeline of the trade heavily weighted toward Toronto at the inception of the trade so if we’re at the least on an even footing from the first year on…….

  • Destry

    Our 1B are hitting just as well as Abreu. In fact, Duda (2) & Davis (1) are way outproducing him in the HR dept.

  • Destry

    What is Arizona’s record? Looks like the 5 HRs in Arizona & Colorado hasn’t overcome his terrible defense and low OBP & non existent batting average. Remember Mark Renyolds anyone?

  • Hodges14

    a #4 starter vs nothing at all. The Mets have no productivity at all to show for the trade. Again, a few years from now it may turn out that everyone his happy with the trade. It’s just too early to judge since the Mets have not benefitted from it yet.

  • Destry

    Yet Murphy struck out yesterday with runners on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out. I agree you however. And everyone wants Trumbo. .200 Avg .300 OBP

  • Destry

    Its a bit too early to say $70million was a bargain for Abreu.

  • oleosmirf

    and the combination of Buck and Hefner was more valuable than the combination of Dickey and Thole last season, which negates his whole argument.

    Now if Thole/Dickey outperforms d’Arnaud, Colon and Noah, in 2014 then maybe it swings back to Toronto…

  • Destry

    Isn’t that what; Matt Weiters hits?

  • Joey D.

    Hi Hodges,

    I know. But these trades also underscore something more important. They need to be accommodated by other moves outside the organization to be worthwhile. That’s what I mean be this “rebuilding” plan being so incomplete. And for an obvious reason.

  • jason bay

    There is certainly an argument that can be made for that but I have a feeling that Toronto preferred RA (with LHP’s Buerhle and Happ already in the rotation) and that the Mets preferred keeping Niese because he was our only LHP and under control through ’16 or ’18 at our option.

  • Destry

    What is everyone realistically expecting from TDA? If he plays good D from the catcher position, hits .245 12 HRs 45 RBIs would that be acceptable for a rookie catcher for anyone?

    I’m curious what everyone realistically expects from a rookie catcher.

  • Hodges14

    we could spend all day on that. Rebuilding teams don’t let Jose Reyes walk for nothing. A rebuilding team that has already let Jose Reyes walk for nothing doesn’t sign 30 year old David Wright to an 8 year extension… the list goes on and on. The Marlins are rebuilding. The Mets are stalling, hoping the Wilpons win the powerball lottery.

  • oleosmirf

    He also has a history of low average, low OBP and for those who love to harp on it, high strikeouts.

  • Hodges14

    For a rookie catcher, that’s probably about right. But is it right for a guy that’s supposed to be the top catching prospect in MLB?

  • Destry

    Weiters hit .235 last year and his a .255 career, and he was the best catching prospect, along with Posey & Mauer (who is now a 1B)

  • Destry

    That would be all star numbers for a rookie catcher

  • Destry

    Weiters his .235 last year, and is a .255 career hitter
    His first full season he hit.

    .249 11- HRs 55-RBIs in a bandbox

  • Tank

    but then we’d have to pay them a year earlier

  • Destry

    Yadier Molina

    1st full season .252 8 HRs 49 RBIs
    2nd full season .216 6 HRs 49 RBIs

  • Mike

    I’m more worried about Terry’s mental approach. 16 ab’s and he’s “worried”. This coming from a guy who never sniffed the majors, somehow he’s the authority on hitter’s approach. He’s a rookie and ruben tejada is hitting behind him…the kids not gonna hit 20 hrs this yr. A lot of it is luck also, he’s smoked a few balls they were just caught.

  • Destry

    In Baltimore, Cincy, etc. He has 2 HRs already

  • MiqueMetsFan

    TDA will come around. I just wish the NY Mets would just stop focusing so much on OBP. I truly feel that this approach has messed up certain batters. Don’t get me wrong OBP is important but I feel that the NY Mets have over analyzed this aspect of the game to a fault.

    It’s not ironic that TDA has struck out so many times, and/or the rest of the team has done the same. Having these guys focus so much on OBP, as a result, these guys aren’t as aggressive when some batters need to be as such. Slap or spray hitters should focus more on OBP, while the big boys, like the Ike Davis’, Duda’s, Granderson’s, Wright’s and even TDA’s should focus on being more aggressive at the plate.

    I think the Mets offense would take off if they wouldn’t be so controlling regarding the OBP stuff.

  • Destry

    We are last in the NL in OBP.

  • Hodges14

    and when Posey was a rookie he put up an .862 OPS and when Mauer was a rookie he put up a .783 OPS. They were both top catching prospects who both made it to the majors at a much younger age and produced in their rookie seasons.

  • Hodges14

    Yadier Molina

    1st full season in the majors – age 22
    2nd full season in the majors – age 23

  • Hodges14

    yeah… we’ve got Chris Young to remind us of what is possible in Arizona.

  • jason bay

    Mauer and Posey were the 1st and 5th picks in the 1st round. Supreme talents that lived up to their billings and won batting titles and MVP’s so way to set the bar at the top of the rack.

  • RyanF55

    Those numbers would be absolutely fine for me as a rookie C.

  • RyanF55

    I think it speaks more to the lack of actual solid Catchers available across the minors. dArnaud shouldn’t be a #1 IMO, but he is, because there’s not that much to compare to.

  • oleosmirf

    As you should. No reputable baseball person would prefer Trumbo over Wright…

  • jason bay

    It’s not the speed with which a prospect gets to the Majors, it’s the performance he produces while he is there that matters so I think we should keep two things in mind.

    1) He doesn’t have a lot of time up here yet and

    2) The alternatives were Thole and Nickeas as hardly any catching prospects were traded or even available in free agency after we acquired him. Norris for Gio perhaps but he was a lesser piece to that trade. Grandal? maybe.

    There weren’t many opportunities to get a catcher and I can’t see the sense in going year to year with Schneider, Santos, Barajas, Thole, Paulino, Johnson, Shopach, ect ect.. I’m also not sure how likely it is we could lure an an A.J. Piercynski, McCann or Salty to sign here even if we could have afforded one of them. Molina, Montero, LuCroy, Ramos, Salvador, Rosario ect are all locked up.

    To me this was possibly the last chance we would have to get a catcher here and the choice was Arencibia or d’Anaurd or go with a retread for 3 years or more.

    Catcher is one of the largest areas of neglect in the Mets system over many many years and that’s really saying something considering 1B, 2B, SS, 3B, LF, CF, RF and the bullpen.

  • skyking26

    Could it be Citi Field syndrome, trying too hard to hit HR’s. If that’s the case even good hitters like Wright had to adjust. If TDA is focusing on HR’s he’s going to have problems. He needs to just focus on putting the ball in play and getting on base. If he can do that HR’s will eventually come.

  • Alex68 (Ch)

    Johnny Bench?!?! he’s not even josh thole right now

  • Alex68 (Ch)

    But it wasn’t us who set the bar high. It was guys like you who kept saying he’s a stud, catcher of the future, best catcher in the minors, we robbed the jays etc . now that he’s not living up to the overhype you guys did ee should be patient etc, .same thing over and over again with you sandy lovers

  • Mike

    Exactly, and if it was 0-16 in June nobody would care but just because it’s to start the season u have morons like josh lewin who after every ab feels it imperative to remind everybody “t d’a is now 0-15 to start the season. Td’a is now 0-16 to start the season”

  • jason bay

    Beltran wasn’t going to re-sign here anyway (as he confirmed with his own words after signing with the Yankees) so we didn’t give up “continued All Star years” for him. Not sure who would be filling Wheeler’s spot in the rotation this year had that trade not been executed.

    Pagan had a poor 2011 and we weren’t going to be able to re-sign him with the bank imposed prohibition on spending so he had to be moved (or get nothing) in a payroll neutral trade or for a prospect while his value was at it’s lowest.

    Clearly he should have been held till the deadline but as we know the owners are not in a position to go all in on a full rebuild and if Ramirez had pitched the way he had the prior 4 years that would have helped a lot but with Murph learning 2B, Duda in RF and Thole behind the plate I am not sure that any relief pitcher other than Kimbrel might have made enough of a difference.

    Dickey hasn’t met expectations but I wouldn’t label him a disappointement yet and TDA certainly not as growing pains are the norm, not the exception. Black for Buck or Byrd (take your pick) is nothing short of a great deal as 2 months of them in a season we were out of it compared to six years of Black, cost us nothing and could get us a lot.

  • jason bay

    Chicken Little,

    I don’t have the time to dig up what anyone said but their just opinions. If you set your expectations on other peoples opinions that’s on you. What is more likely that was said was that he is the #1 catching prospect in the minors and he was but anyone who thinks that it is common for a hyped prospect to start off the way say that Posey did, well your wrong.

    Usually they start off the way Molina and Ruiz did and growing pains are to be expected.

  • metsfan79

    If memory serves me I think TC dropped this pearl of wisdom on TDA ” you need to keep your eyes open”

  • Old School Mets Fan

    According to Baseball Reference though, Dickey/Thole trounces Buck/Hefner 1.4 to -.4

  • TJ

    Hodges,
    Yes, Yadier was younger, but bear in mind that TDA missed significant time in each of his last two seasons, and missed some time before that as well. A 25 year old TDA may be closer to a 23 year old Yadier in professional ABs. Also, despite the 0-15, he has squared up a few balls for some tough outs, and he has played good D, so I say just play him 5 out of 7 and let him settle in. NYC is a tough place to cut your teeth as a rookie.

  • igotadose

    Hefner, Dice-K and Mejia ‘arguably just as good as Dickey?’

    Let me know when they each win the Cy Young. Then we can argue. until then, no, they’re not just as good. Mejia’s 3-8 lifetime.

  • Anthony

    Can we see one of these guys do something at the major league level before we proclaim anything

  • BarnRat

    Conveniently, I think we’re also last in BA. So the alternative to a hit isn’t a walk, it’s an out (customarily a SO).

  • Taskmaster4450

    Met fans are worried about Collins mental approach.

  • Taskmaster4450

    So one good year makes someone a great pitcher. Mark Davis won the CYA also. Look at his career stats.

    Dickey is a career .500 pitcher…that is all.

  • mad met

    This is exactly why we needed a cant miss right fielder and a clean up hitting first base men to keep the pressure off tda juan tehada and grandy… give them some breathing room

  • Taskmaster4450

    What a joke. It is a week into the season. I did a quick run though of some teams and picked up on some names and their BA right now.

    Peralta .087
    Bruce .160
    Craig .080
    Reddick .130
    Donaldson .138
    Fielder .167

    It is still very early.

    If TdA is still struggling so bad in a few weeks, then you have a discussion.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    No.

    Molina was never ranked in the top 100 and was a defensive wizard.

    it took Posey, Wieters, and Mauer a year or 2 to become the #1 catching prospect in baseball.

    It took TDA almost 7 years to get to that status.

  • metsfan79

    The mets are a piss poor franchise from top to bottom. Tda hasnt played a full season in 3 years hasnt had a stable place to call home (traded twice) of your worried let him go down and acclimate or collins stfu last thing the guy needs is u or your dopey advice please.
    Its an ongoing thing woth the mets organizationalways trying to tinker and take the fun out of the game please let these guus play. Remember what they did to jose change how u run stop smiling dont enjoy yourself.
    Bottom line is this is a non baseball run company there clueless bullpen tejada davis duda eyj what eber you want to say the problem herr is this is the mets owned by fred and saul the 2 of them have zero baseball sense and untill that changes get used to what wr have. F

  • igotadose

    No, but zero good years (Mejia) doesn’t make him a good pitcher, either. Other than Harvey, none of these awesome Mets pitching prospects has produced at a ‘wow!’ level. Wheeler’s been o.k. My point to oleosmirf is, you can’t call Dice-K/Hefner/Mejia as good; you can argue it 🙂 and right now, I think you lose the argument.

    if Mejia keeps doing well and winning this year with this team behind them, I’ll concede the argument. Not today though.

    And, I don’t much care about who won the trade. I want to win baseball games, not trades. The Angels by any measurement won the Nolan Ryan trade – how much difference did that make to them winning the world series with Nolan Ryan as an Angel? Only 1 first place finish while Ryan was on the team.

  • R04

    Quite possibly the worst post ive read yet on this blog, and thats saying something! Congrats!

  • Bob Walsh

    Task — only difference is you are comparing someone who has no track record with players who do. But that said, it is ridiculous to panic so early with this guy. I know there have been some great players who have struggled early, which is not to preclude TDA will be great. Hernandez said it took him three years of struggling to get it.

    But this is precisely where I have some of my greatest issues with the FO and the farm system. Just about all these young players are going to need the same 3 years or so that Hernandez talked about with his career. But if these players are in the minors when does that major league development clock start?

    This would have been an ideal year to see what many of the young players could do in the majors but super 2 and veterans and an ill advised FA contract stand in the way.

  • Bob Walsh

    Very well stated.

  • Bob Walsh

    Watch how they are forced to back peddle on many of these farm system superstars.

    I’d take a couple of pitchers and Lagares and Puello becoming star players and be happy. But they see SA’s magical wave of the wand as producing 10-15 superstars.

    And when each one struggles, they immediately turn their attention to the next wave of can’t miss prospect. Once it was Black, and now its Herrerra. Its absurd, but not surprising because what else is there left to say … that depending 100% on a farm system simply doesn’t work.

    Just ask the Astros.

  • Endy10

    shoulda coulda woulda, we have him now.

    honestly i’m more concerned that the team is screwing with his approach like they are with half the team. like wright said, it’s not translating to his defense, so i’m not worried (yet)

    my honest opinion, i think travis needs to bulk up a little, i think he’s a bit too small for a 25 year old catcher, and a little additional strength would do him well. if the mets let him take his lumps this year, and he does that, i think he’ll grow very well when we need him next year

  • Bail4Nails

    What about batting D’Arnaud 2nd for a game or two?
    I know Collins HATES the hit and run, but there’s no better way to force a guy to shorten up and make contact- exactly what TDA needs to get back to doing.

  • Anthony Maniscalco

    The way i look at it, even if d’arnaud doesn’t produce (which i think he will) we still got syndergaard in the dickey trade. We still got the better end of that trade.

  • Jon

    This may be the dumbest post of all time
    Dickey won 14 games in the AL East last year ( an NL comparative including facing the marlins 5 times would be approx 18 wins)
    Hefner, dice k and Mejia? Give me a break. In addition how about having Dickey and Mejia????
    How dumb are you guys?
    Not TDA looks like an overhyped bust but Noah looks like the real deal so in the end we will win this but to date it has gotten us nothing on the major league level.

  • Destry

    There is no such thing as shortening up and making contact within their hitting philosophy. Swing as hard as you can if its a strike, and don’t swing if its a ball. That’s what there being taught, and is the only option for them if they want to be in the lineup.

  • Kabeetz

    Nothing wrong with having a level of concern but definitely too early to jump to conclusions.

    Hopefully he’s staying away from hearing people like Joe Beningo trash him on a daily basis needlessly.

  • Destry

    Catcher of the future and best catcher in the game is two different things. I don’t think anyone ever said he would be Mauer or Posey, but .245 12 HRs 45 RBIs in his first season, and .260 20 HR potential while being a good defensive catcher IS YOUR CATCHER OF THE FUTURE.

  • Destry

    Not all of us were expecting Buster Posey. Those who were aren’t being realistic. Every prospect that comes up is not the best player at the position in all of baseball. Especially after 100 ABs

  • Destry

    So were you expecting him to be Mauer, Posey or Molina? Are you expecting Flores to be Miguel Cabrera? Is Puello Mike Trout? You will always be disappointed if you expect a rookie to best the best player at their position after a month in the big leagues.

  • BarnRat

    God, that’s so depressing. If accurate (and I don’t disagree), is it any wonder our hitters are collectively struggling. If we still have the lowest NL OBP and BA three weeks from now, can the coaches at least contemplate a different approach. (I know, rhetorical).

  • Destry

    Could go down as one of the most lopsided trades of all time if TDA and THor reach their potential.

  • Destry

    Yeah he says that about every player. He said it about Ike, Duda, Tejada, Valdespin, Captn Kirk, Lagares. He doesn’t really have any idea. He just uses that as the reason anytime a player struggles.

  • Destry

    Even if they lost their age 24 and 23 seasons to injury? He’s has the development level of a 23 year old catcher.

  • Destry

    Even if they are busts and Dickey had one more good year with the Mets, then we let him walk? You chastise letting Reyes walk, and then question the Dickey trade. Which is it?

  • Destry

    Exactly. They can trade Thor and TDA right now for something better than Dickey.

  • Destry

    No. Its a misconception of our fans. We hit more HRs than the Cardinals last year.

  • Destry

    Toronto wasn’t interested in Niese. He pitched one game there and gave up 5 HRs and 9 ER in 4 IP earlier that year.

  • Destry

    Carlos Ruiz and JP Arencibia were also All-Stars those seasons.

  • Destry

    Exactly. And we didn’t have to give up any prospects for him.

  • Destry

    Neither did Flores and he’s 0-fer the season too.

  • Bob Walsh

    Most scouts do expect the top rated prospect in the minors at a position to be a star.

    He is far from that at this point. With time to develop he may become an average catcher. Or he may become a star.

    But many see him and the other mets prospects in an unreal light. Which is why most teams build in a number of ways, to manage this risk.

    The lousey teams in baseball alway get the tops picks yet stay mired at the bottom. It’s part of the lie being posited by this FO.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    honestly, no. and i think comparisons are foolish.

    i just think that Sandy fans, having next to nothing to hang their hats on with Nimmo and Cecchini will use comparisons to desperately pump up those who need it.

    Notice Thor needs no comparisons to anyone.

    Notice Plawecki needs no comparisons to anyone.

    Wheeler? He got compared to Nolan Ryan here
    TDA ? He got compared to Johnny Bench here.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    So 2010-2011-2012 never happened ?

    Dickey was one of the best pitchers in the NL for 3 years straight.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    ah yes, so 2 backup catchers !

  • Just_Da_damaja

    lets not fool ourselves.

    we traded for travis when he was 24.

    he was already a fringe prospect, if he was 20/21, he has a few years to prove himself to retain top prospect value. If ur 24, u either fall off the cliff or ur a good player.

    we goofed up by sending him to the minors and playing this stupid game of delaying arbitration with absolutely every prospect.

    he gets hurt.

    he rehabs. he hits minor league pitching well.

    he gets brought up AFTER Buck is traded ( NO veteran to help him )

    he sucks.

    he goes to spring training. ( no special program to help him over the winter )

    he sucks in spring training. ( NO veteran to help him )

    he starts the season sucking ( NO veteran to help him )

    people are worried.

    and that sums it up.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    dont look now…

    but Dickey just shut down the Yankees in Toronto ( where he was terrible last year )

    6 2/3 – no runs – 5 hits – 1 walk

  • Just_Da_damaja

    Beltran never said he would not resign here.

    he merely stated he felt hurt by what the wilpons did back then.

  • Just_Da_damaja
  • Hodges14

    Why did they have to let him walk? They gave the same money that Dickey got to Colon?

  • Hodges14

    That’s all I’m saying. To proclaim that the Mets fleeced the Blue Jays at this time is ridiculous.

  • Hodges14

    That’s assuming that Syndergaard pans out to be what you expect he will be in the majors. Too soon to know.

  • Hodges14

    The Mets priorities are “everything but winning”. By holding kids down in the minors when they have nothing left to prove all they are doing is delaying their major league development. Or in some cases delaying the inevitable bust at the major league level and in so delaying the time when they will have a solid major league team. #theplan.

  • Metopia

    d’Arnaud doesn’t even have enough ML PA’s to qualify for a quarter of a season, less than 150. A quarter of a season!! And people have determined he’s not going to hit? Crazy.

  • Hodges14

    This is where there is a major disconnect among different groups of fans. There is a vocal minority who see an unproven player and believe completely that their potential will be fully realized and that makes them a more valuable player now. Then there is the rest who have seen “can’t miss” prospects who have missed throughout the history of the Mets (and every other team) who take the approach of let me see him do it in the majors first, before I crown him as king.

  • Bail4Nails

    Barny, the most important part of Sabremetrics is never admitting when you’re wrong. You have to tell everyone “the numbers will eventually work out” (in September, when the games no longer matter).

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    How are they messing with him? Seems like they’re just leaving him be and only being concerned with the mental approach, not anything physical.

    Now you want to change him physically. THAT’S messing with his approach.

  • Met Fan 4 Life

    I am more concerned with a coaching staff that does not seem to be able to come up with any strategy better than “go out there and TAKE PITCHES”!

  • Ha. That’s a good reminder. I forgot that.

  • MetsfanInParadise

    I’d like to know how today’s NY media would have reacted to Wilie Mays’ 1-24 to open his career. He begged Leo Durocher to send him back to AAA, and the Lip said “I don’t care if you go 0-for-100, you’re my CF. I can see the tabloid headlines now: “Crybaby.” Give him time. As they say in Boston, “everythings gonna be alright.”

  • Brian D.

    Alex, not only did they say that the Mets “robbed the Jays” some people were actually saying that it might be one of the greatest trades of all time.

    And now they are telling us to be patient? Go figure.

  • Endy10

    did you even read what i wrote? I didn’t say they were concerned with his physical approach, that was just my opinion.

    it’s the same way they’re forcing their approach on everyone, murphy discussed just a few weeks ago how he feels pressured to walk instead of just going up to hit the ball. murph’s a veteran so he knows what he’s doing up there, but d’arnaud’s still a rookie, he may not know how to make the adjustments yet.

    and how is him bulking up messing with his approach? i just think he looks skinny for a 25 year old, but again that’s just me.

    And aren’t you the guy who was yelling at me all offseason for speculating about what the front office has done in the past, yet here you are speculating about what the front office has done in the past?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    “honestly i’m more concerned that the team is screwing with his approach…”

    “Screwing” with his approach, “messing with him.” Same thing to me. And again, I haven’t read word one about them changing anything about his approach to the game.

    And generally, getting someone to “bulk up” means trying to add power, which to me means trying to hit more home runs.

    “And aren’t you the guy who was yelling at me all offseason for speculating about what the front office has done in the past, yet here you are speculating about what the front office has done in the past?”

    I don’t understand anything about that sentence.

  • Endy10

    the mets have their approach, they’ve discussed this all off season and the past couple years about how they want the team to focus on their approach. Walks, home runs, or as alderson likes to reword it after it doesn’t work: “getting yourself into a count where you’ll get a favorable pitch to hit” (as if that’s not the broadest statement in the world. I think if d’arnaud was allowed to just do his thing a little more, as opposed to trying to conform to the team’s hitting philosophy then he’d have one less thing to think about at the plate.

    getting someone to bulk up does not mean adding power. Yes it may lead to more power, but i just mean in general, i think it’d make him a bit quicker swinger, a bit more durable, etc. Most players continually work to bulk up when they’re young, or slim down if they’re big, i just think travis is slacking a bit based on how skinny he looks.

    both of the last points were my opinions, my original comment was directed at the fact that you said the front office should have traded d’arnaud. and why would they have done that? d’arnaud was picked by some to be the ROY, and has a world of potential. I’m not necessarily arguing that they should have kept him, but i’ve left comments about the front office time and time again about moves they should/shouldn’t have made, and heard about how it’s unfair to speculate on what has and could have happened by you (specifically brad emaus, jose abreu, etc). not sure why it’s ok for you to speculate but not for me

  • igotadose

    Totally agree. Most can’t misses seem to miss. Bryce Harper- couldn’t miss, excellent player today. Next guy in the draft, Mariners drafted him, Dustin Ackley – scuffling and probably on the team because they picked him so high. This is why Philips said, “Prospects get you fired.”

    Plus, parity and a weaker pool of candidates getting to the ML than, say, 20 years ago.

    But remember, it’s about 90 wins. Gotta keep beating that drum till Sandy and Wilpons are drummed out of town. Or the team radically improves.

  • jason bay

    He didn’t say hurt he said disrespected and for someone who does as much “inferring” as you do that one should be a layup but as a charter Wilpon apologist and a true believer in the Wilpon Method, you’ll never say so because to do so in your eyes would be blasphemy against your Lord and Savoir Fred.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    “But when somebody’s trying to HURT you in a personal way, trying to put things out there that are not me, then we have trouble. Now it’s personal.

    “When they say all of that, of course I WAS HURT because you can’t believe the organization that signed you for seven years is trying to put you down.”

    He was talking about what the mets did 4 years ago.

    He met with Jeff Wilpon over the summer and patched things up..

    He said he was open to listening to an offer from the team…

    the team made NO OFFER

    a reporter asked him about the “controversies” he endured while he was here and he said he was hurt back then by what the org did.

    If the Wilpons offered him a 4 year / 60 mil contract, Beltran would be a met.

    He’s not here, b/c Sandy never once made an offer in 2011 or 2013.

    And we have an inferior player to him playing RF.

    What was the Yankees highest offer for Granderson?

  • jason bay

    The usage of the word “hurt” in the first paragraph had absolutely nothing to do with Beltran’s feelings, it had to do with what the Wilpon’s were trying to do to him.

    He also specifically stated that he felt disrespected which goes hand in hand with the personal nature of the attack on him by the Wilpon’s and I don’t believe for one second that he and Jeff have patched things up.

    Blame your Lord and Savoir Fred for not having the cash to pick up another DH.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    “What was the Yankees highest offer for Granderson?”

  • Just_Da_damaja

    “When they say all of that, of course I WAS HURT because you can’t believe the organization that signed you for seven years is trying to put you down.”

    And the usage of the word HURT in the 2nd paragraph indicates how he felt.
    🙂

  • jason bay

    Who knows?

  • Just_Da_damaja

    and again, you paint everyone in this black/white box where you are either FOR Sandy + Against Fred or FOR Fred and against Sandy.

    Nice try but I was on the Fred WIlpon bashing campaign long before your time travelling days.

    I recorded a 1980 flashback on SNY showing Fred Wilpon’s brilliant plan on bringing fans back.

    I displayed that on Metsblog and got banned immediately.

    Your mediocre lukewarm lord and savior is not that great and the ownership is worse.

    🙂

  • Just_Da_damaja

    the yanks only offered a 1 year QO for Granderson. On Nov 13th, he turned it down. On Dec 5th, he signed as a Met.

    Not one team offered him a contract.

    Beltran on the other hand…

    tied to the red sox, indians, rangers, and eventually yankees.

    The guy that no one had interest in got a 60 mil contract for 4 years.

    After giving 7.5 mil to another OF no one wanted !

    And supposedly this is the same Sandy that knows how to play the market and let it come to him

    He treated Young and Granderson no different than Fat Francisco.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I did say they should have traded TDA this past offseason because we need a SS and TDA not only hasn’t been able to stay healthy in his career, but I saw nothing to like last season and thus far he’s stayed the same unimpressive player. All we hear is “just wait” and “he’ll be fine.”

    I wasn’t speculating on anything. Merely stating they should have dealt him. That belief is also grounded in the reality that Arizona wanted a top catching prospect in a trade for a SS, and TDA fits that bill. It’s a give something to get something situation. Not sure why you’re bringing up Emaus and Abreu. They have nothing to do with it.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    easy, there was NO OFFER.

  • joeyd1966

    If you can scout talent, it makes no difference if that talent is Latin, Asian or Martian so for anyone to be outraged is a bit much. You have to be Latin to scout a Latino player. Ridiculous.. And as far as the GM who had just joined the organization, it’s been 9 years since he joined and we have very little to show for those 9 years. Drafting Matt Harvey 7th overall in a season when you were picked to compete for a title is nothing to brag about. Draft a Harvey talent in the 3rd round then that’s pretty innovative. We have Gee, Niese and Murphy. Yaaay.

  • jason bay

    What did the Red Sox offer Ellsbury? Who offered anything for Perez or Bay?

  • joeyd1966

    Sorry about that Teddy. I grouped you in with JDD who is against Becerra because he’s a non hispanic scout scouting hispanic players which was wrong of me but nevertheless I still have no problem with Becerra being given the director of intl scouting. In 1983 Sandy Alderson was given the GM and VP of baseball operations positions who had only worked in baseball the previous two years as the teams general counsel and all he did was build the best team in the AL winning 4 divisions, 3 AL pennants and a WS title. Besides it’s not like Ismael Cruz was churning out any talent from Latin America. I should MLB players as obviously the likes of Flores, Mejia, Puello have talent.

  • joeyd1966

    Did you see what Arizona got back for Trumbo? Where were we getting those players from to give to L.A.? Arizona didn’t neglect their farm system like we did for many years, hence having something MLB ready under team control long term. Beside HR’s Trumbo is pretty useless to boot. He can’t defend and gets on base less than 30% of the time.

  • joeyd1966

    Hate to say it bro but you did. You said he will have a better career than Wright. I think Flores will be an 800-850 OPS type of offensive player. Wright is more like 875-925 type of player.

  • joeyd1966

    Nobody said he was going to be the next Johnny Bench. His minor league catching instructor with Philly said he reminded him of Bench the way d’Arnaud carry’s himself. Does every post from you have to be anti Met.