Collins Needs to Stop Babying Duda and Bat Him Cleanup

When Terry Collins made the decision to get Curtis Granderson out of the cleanup spot, I wasn’t really too surprised. It was something that clearly needed to be done. Hopefully, this will get Granderson’s bat going again and he can become the run producer this team thought they were getting when they signed him to that four-year, $60 million dollar deal over the Winter.

Despite an 0-for-6 showing at the plate on Sunday, his game-winning sacrifice fly was still a sight for sore eyes and maybe it was just the first of many more big moments for Granderson going forward. 

lucas duda USATSIBatting cleanup yesterday was second baseman Daniel Murphy, which seemed like a real head-scratcher to me.

I thought for sure that Lucas Duda would get the first opportunity to bat behind David Wright, especially given the fact that he leads the team in home runs, slugging percentage and OPS.

After the game, Terry Collins explained his decision to leave Duda in the sixth spot of the lineup.

“It’s huge, and that’s exactly why I’m not ready to move Lucas there right now. With what’s happened here in the past week, he’s got enough on his plate, and I didn’t want to stir the pot by throwing him in the four-hole right away.”

I thought David Lennon of Newsday hit the nail on the head in his column this morning:

The Mets can’t play the sensitive card with him any longer. They chose Duda over Ike Davis — who, by the way, batted cleanup Sunday for the Pirates — and that means trusting him to do the job.

And while we’re on the subject of numbers, Duda’s best offensive stats have come in the No. 4 spot. In 110 games there, Duda has a slash line of .276/.373/.453 with a home run every 25 plate appearances. So don’t tell us Duda can’t handle the pressure.

As long as Granderson is slumping, Collins is going to have to scrape up offense from somewhere. And in this thin lineup, Duda has to become the hitter the Mets say he can be — not look for shelter.

Sooner or later the Mets are going to have to stop babying Duda and start requiring some accountability from him.

How are these players ever going to reach their full potential if we’re going to keep playing nursemaid with them like this?

Duda is 28 years old and given the fact that the Mets are banking on him as their starting first baseman, it’s time for him to live up to that expectation and rise to the occasion. Collins shouldn’t be the one keeping that from happening. Get Duda in that cleanup spot and lets turn the guy loose.

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  • Agee’s Catch

    I see Terry as the biggest road block to the teams success. Terry navigated the lean years, but I don’t think he’s equipped to get these guys to the next level.

  • Pat Fezza

    I’m all for batting Duda cleanup. However, where do you bat Murph? Do you move Granderson to 6th? That will not help him see quality pitches. You would have to bury Murph in the 6 hole and he is one of the better hitters on the team

  • NewYorkMammoths

  • Charley’s Twin

    It’s hard to fill out a lineup card when you have 3 good hitters.

  • tacknaf

    agreed 100%, though I don’t really feel he navigated anything. he’s been dreadful. stuff like this comes up all the freakin time

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments
  • HawkZon

    ^^THIS^^

  • WillisReid

    I think Murphy is actually the best candidate not named Wright to bat in the clean up spot. Maybe it should be Duda at some point, but they need to at least let him get comfortable with his new role.

  • Quinn

    “As long as Granderson is slumping, Collins is going to have to scrape up offense from somewhere. And in this thin lineup, Duda has to become the hitter the Mets say he can be — not look for shelter.” This is a quote from Newsday. You really should have given them some credit since you completely copied them

  • Agee’s Catch

    He did give Newsday credit. He may have needed to include the quote in the gray box.

  • Guest
  • Refresh your page or get glasses. We always give credit unlike some others. Thanks for your insight on the matter of Duda.

  • oleosmirf

    Murphy belongs in the 6 hole though. Not enough power and too low an OBP. He’ll get plenty of RBI chances there while getting more runners on base for Wright.

  • mikefichera

    100 percent agree. This is ridiculous. How on one hand do you say oh we moved Davis because we believe in Duda – we then bat him 6th in the order in front of D’arnaud/Tejada, and put Murphy in cleanup?…

  • Frank Vamos, Jr.

    3? That’s very optimistic of you.

  • metsaholic

    There is no excuse for Collins not putting Duda in the clean up spot. Granderson has years of success in big spots. He knows how to deal with the pressure of playing in this town, but he’s slumping. Move him to 6 or 7. Duda is not new here, he knows the score. Collins should look him in the eye, smack him on the face, pat him on the fanny and tell Duda to “go-get-em big man.”

  • Frank Vamos, Jr.

    Sonny Corleone needs a wartime consigliere, not Terry Collins.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    So wait. Granderson is slumping, but he knows how to deal with the pressure so let’s move him. Duda, who is only now in the spotlight but knows the score, should be put in the clean up spot right away?

    I agree Duda should bat clean up but I don’t understand your logic.

  • everybodysbuddy

    If EY is hitting leadoff, then Murphy #2 makes no sense since he never takes enough pitches to allow EY to steal. #3 maybe, but he’s no 4, and he’s not a #2 either.

  • everybodysbuddy

    Collins is all about babying his players though. Taking Gee out after 77 pitches, etc… They are men who made it to the major leagues. Treat them that way!

  • MetsfanInParadise

    exactly. he’s good at player development but not a sharp enough manager to lead a contender. Too many mistakes with batting orders, pitching changes, pinch hitters.

  • oleosmirf

    he’s not good at developing though since he clearly prefers veterans to rookies.

  • metsaholic

    You’re right, I didn’t articulate my point very well. My logic is that Granderson is a seasoned mature professional, who knows that the best moves don’t involve stroking his ego. He will understand being moved down in the lineup helps the team now and that he can find his way from being lower in the order.

    Duda is now playing in his 5th year, and knows what is now expected of him. Now is the time for Collins to show, without reservation that the organization knows Duda is a man and can handle it.

  • Captain America

    Just because he is large and slow doesn’t make him a cleanup hitter.

    It’s not babying him. Enough to have him in the lineup. He is not a cleanup hitter.

  • MetsfanInParadise

    In Gee’s case I have no problem with Collins removing him a touch early, after he was in one batter too long a couple of times. Recent history supports that move, unlike most of Collins’ decisions. If he’s ever lucky enough to have a 4 or 5 run lead going into the 7th or 8th, THEN is the time to give him a shot at going deeper.

  • Hotstreak

    Jerry Manuel with his gangster fits your description.

  • MetsfanInParadise

    CA, it doesn’t make him NOT a cleanup hitter. As the article indicated, he’s put up his best numbers in that role. Besides, you don’t know until you try. They traded Ike and handed the role of 1B/big bopper to Lucas. Now is the time to see if he can fill those shoes.

  • RyanF55

    I’m not the biggest fan of Duda, but I agree this is it for him. Produce, and do it now. You’re a big hulk of a man..start being the power hitting, middle of the lineup cleanup hitter you’re expected to be. If not, we have no use for him. He needs to protect some guys…he needs to be confident and get it done.

    I do like Duda in the cleanup spot over Granderson, especially now more than ever and his 110 game slash line warrants the look. Granderson needs to revert to hitting to both fields and to the gap like he did in Detroit. I know he’s in a horrible slump, but is Citi creating a power outage for Granderson long-term? I think we all knew we weren’t going to see the Yankee Stadium power from Granderson (because of lot of the HRs were BS HRs), but I expected him capable of hitting 25-30. He’s on pace to hit 9 Home Runs this year….NINE. I would be more accepting if he was hitting triples, or getting on base, but he’s not. He’s critical to getting this lineup to produce…because if it improves just a little bit, I think the pitching will be able to keep us in the far majority of games.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I think Granderson knows what is expected of him too. He should bat second anyway, I’ve always felt that way, and while I’m not confident Duda will succeed batting clean up, I agree he should be there.

    I think the real problem is that we’re one bat short. Unless CY starts hitting for power, we really need a bigger bat in the middle somewhere.

  • John

    Um what games are you watching? He consistently takes pitches to allow young to steal. The times he was actually on base this year

  • Captain America

    No they made him the 1B. Wherever that slots in the lineup.

  • RyanF55

    I try to put myself in the other manager’s shoes (cleats?) for these situations…If you were the opposing manager, would you rather pitch around a guy to get to Murph or pitch around a guy to get to Duda? It would be a nobrainer outside a special circumstance for me…I’d prefer to pitch to Duda every time. So, I agree.

  • everybodysbuddy

    you might be right, but Gee had a shutout going, and as well I’m a believer in overcoming obstacles by facing them to get past them rather than avoiding the obstacles and leaving it to others. You might be right though as far as the better move for winning the game, but Collins said he wanted to take him out so he could leave on a high note. That was the bull that bothered me. If he said he thought it gave the team a better chance to win that’s different. And they are men and he should treat them that way and say it like it is, not the babying crap!

  • Alex68

    Lmao, Let’s go METS!! hahahaha, this org is a joke….

  • Nolrog

    Collins keeps hedging his bets. Duda was named the starter but then didn’t start 4 games in a row (and even the game he played in, he was DH not the 1B). Now, Ike is gone and Grandy is struggling and he’s still not batting him 4th. They need to stop F-ing around, stick the guy in there every day, bat him 4th and then let’s see what happens. And don’t just give it 2 games. Come back in, say, 40 games and then we’ll evaluate.

  • everybodysbuddy

    I couldn’t watch until the end of he game yesterday, so I guess it was the game before that Murphy flied out on the 1st pitch with Young at 1st. And I’ve seen it too many times.

  • Biggle Boy

    From 2011-2013, Duda has a:
    30% K rate when batting 4th. 26% K rate when batting 6th.
    15% RBI rate when batting 4th. 17% RBI rate when batting 6th.
    4% HR rate when batting 4th. 6% HR rate when batting 6th.
    .280 BA when batting 4th. .270 BA when batting 6th.
    .375 OBP when batting 4th. .350 OBP when batting 6th.
    .836 OPS when batting 4th. .881 OPS when batting 6th.

    Looks like it doesn’t make much difference if Duda hits 4th or 6th. I just don’t think he’s gonna be the answer at 1B, no matter where he hits.

  • Nolrog

    If he had to refresh his page to see it, wouldn’t that mean his eyes were working fine?

  • This jab at EY made more sense when he wasn’t sporting a .342 OBP. In fact, he’s hitting .264 with a .400 OBP since he got his first hit after starting the season 0-12.

  • HarveyKsYou

    Troll!

  • metsaholic

    No doubt Granderson knows what is expected of him, but right now he is not producing in the 4 hole. We have no disagreement that he will be able to adjust to what ever spot he is in. The issue is trying to get Duda finally established as the cleanup hitter for the team, until either Grandy comes around, Duda doesn’t produce or they find another option.

    Yes this team is short a bat, but the Granderson situation is similar to Jason Bay and Ike Davis. Meaning the biggest bat in Mets line up have not been producing for years. Yes, they could use another hitter in the line up – no question. But if not for the failures of the above, this would not seem so glaring a problem for them.

  • Met Fan 4 Life

    Sure Terry navigated, just like Edward John Smith navigated.

  • Dave Rosenbluth

    This babying is further proof that they know Lucas is weak/soft mentally. Singles hitter head in the body of a power hitter. None of they guys on the current roster are MLB starting first basemen

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Everyone knows Duda is mentally soft. Last season it was questions about his confidence. Not surprised they’re hesitant to put him clean up right away.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    “Get glasses.” Come on man. You made a mistake. No big deal. Don’t get mad at Quinn for pointing it out.

  • The Mets are never quick to make logical decisions. Give it time. And just keep looking the other way; inevitably and too late…they’ll hit Duda 4th.

    P.S. This isn’t anything more than the endorsement that Duda is the best option there…which is sad in of itself.

  • EzRider

    It’s a shame since we all knew Grandy wasn’t a clean-up hitter but was specifically signed for the purpose of protecting David.

    Best batting order for the mets right now. (I didn’t get to watch yesterday’s game.)
    EY/Grandy/Wright/Duda/CY/Murph/d’Arnaud/Q (yup, i’d play him over Tejada vs. RH).

  • metsaholic

    Soft or not, his production can’t be worse than what they have(had) gotten from Davis, Granderson or Bay at the beginning the seasons for years. They made their choice, put him in clean-up and don’t look back.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Agreed

  • CyYout

    I’ll probably be one of few to disagree here. Duda is a bridge to Dom Smith, who is in a best case scenario, still three years away. He will get plenty of opportunities in the four-hole if he merits it. The talk of the offseason was getting Wright some protection and you can’t abandon the idea of Granderson being that guy 18 games through a four-year contract. I say, let’s leave Duda alone for a while, give him some breathing room, and see if he forces his way up the lineup.

  • Erin_II

    Last season: “Duda will not be hitting cleanup for this team.”
    2 days later, Duda is batting cleanup.
    I fully expect Lucas batting fourth by tomorrow or Wednesday.

  • blaiseda

    If you dont want to bat Duda 4th, then you have to push Murph to 3rd and wright to 4th. But then we have two lefty hitters in a row. which doesn’t bode well for late inning games when the team brings in their LOOGY.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    “…I’m a believer in overcoming obstacles by facing them to get past them rather than avoiding the obstacles and leaving it to others.”

    Yet so many people cry and complain because Collins doesn’t take Gee out before 90 pitches.

    It was a three-run lead and as we all know Gee’s tendency for big home runs, I have no issue taking him out with a lead.

  • JRB74

    Who is on this squad? Grandy sure isn’t. Neither is Murphy or Wright. Someone has to fill the four spot, might as well be him. At least he has power and gives you much better at bats than Grandy.

  • Erin_II

    Batting position aside, the Dude has looked surprisingly adequate playing defense at 1B.

  • metsaholic

    EY
    TDA
    Murphy
    Wright
    Duda
    CY
    Granderson
    Someone not Tejada. 🙂

  • I didn’t get mad and I didn’t make a mistake.

    I named Newsday, named the author, linked back to the source article and it was posted as such all along.

    To say I didn’t “give them some credit” was his oversight not my mistake.

  • metsaholic

    I’m not surprised he could play first. It’s the position he knows is his natural position, but he was mostly blocked there by Davis, and the Mets failure to get the outfield straighten out. Duda may not look graceful, but we need to get over that and just focus on the results.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    The paragraph he pointed out wasn’t originally in the grey area or whatever you call it to indicate it was part of the Newsday article. That was his point. I assume you meant to include it, didn’t, and then changed it when you noticed. It’s not a big deal but don’t get upset Quinn pointed it out. I think the words you’re looking for are “sorry” and “thanks, Quinn.”

  • EzRider

    Just incase you were wondering Granderson between the years of 2011-2013 had hit 49 HR’s at home and 42 HR’s on the road. Granted AL ball parks are generally smaller but…seems pretty even to me.
    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/6125/type/batting3/curtis-granderson

    So i still think we’ll see around 25 HR’s from him. No not a cleanup hitter but we all knew that. Oh and by the way, if you check the link scroll down and look at his numbers from the two hole. The perfect place for the Grandyman to bat.

  • CyYout

    My only problem with this is TDA is really slow. At least with EYJ, Murph, Wright, Granderson, CY, you have speed one through five.

  • everybodysbuddy

    And like I said, you might have been right. My problem was more about the explanation by Collins more so than the act. Telling your player that you are concerned with their confidence being effected to me is babying and not a good reason. If you disagree with that, well that’s fine too, but that was my point.

  • RyanF55

    I’m just glad they finally made a decision. They finally shipped one of the two out of here so we can move on. Duda now has his chance…produce or see ya later.

  • elsid1986

    If Duda is a bridge to Dom Smith, this team will continue to stink until 2017 when
    Smith is projected to make the majors. Duda stinks. But Sandy loves him because he draws walks. Watch Ike light it up now that he is away from Hudgens and Sandys anemic offensive philosophy.

  • metsaholic

    Yes, but he’s not that much slower than Murphy. Perhaps putting him in the 2 hole will get him further focused on just hitting the ball hard, not hitting the ball out. TDA was(is) expected to hit well for the team. I see him no better than Paul Lo Duca like production batting 2nd in the order. That would be pretty good.

  • BKMike

    Just spitballing here…. would anyone agree putting Granderson leadoff when Lagares comes back?

    say his offense picks up a little before Lagares comes of the DL? would that change anyones mind?

  • metsaholic

    Agreed.

  • Matlack

    Like the lineup, though I’d be inclined to go longer with Granderson at cleanup. Duda in the 2 hole, and Murphy 6th spreads out your lefties and lengthens the lineup.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Collins is a total moron.

    Only a horsesa** would be concerned. Duda has shown he can hit in that spot and he is build to be a cleanup hitter. Yet Collins, with his “mary” way of managing and not wanting to “offend” anyone doesnt do this. Instead, he screws up the lineup because he is “sensitive”.

    I guess instead of reading baseball books Collins gets his managing tips from Dr Phil.

  • metsaholic

    No agreement from me. I just think that Granderson is going to take awhile to adjust his hitting style from his days playing for the Yankees to his days playing for the Tigers. I think Granderson will hit, but he’s going still K as much as or more than EY does now, without getting a higher OBP. High OBP is the most important stat needed from the leadoff hitter. CY would be a better choice than Lagares. EY becomes the 4th outfielder.

  • Metstheory22

    If they let Duda hit like he has this year without worrying about taking pitches, yea he can hit 4th. Otherwise, if they start having him taking pitches right down the middle so the pitch count rises, then look for someone else to hit clean up. Right now maybe the lineup should be— E. Young, Grandy, Wright, Duda, C Young, Murphy, d’Arnaud, SS position and pitcher. other posibility would have Murphy hitting third with Wright hitting 5th and CY hitting 6th.

  • EzRider

    Nah. If for no other reasons but Granderson’s track record in the 2-hole and the fact that David is starting to heat up. Put Grandy in front of him where they’ll challenge him more with fastballs to get him out and not face Wright. Maybe Curtis can get into a groove. Plus if he can get on he can steal some bags. Duda has been decent in the cleanup slot and needs to start producing, plus he won’t strike out every other at bat to kill a rally.

  • NewYorkMammoths
  • mets4lyfe

    Collins has no idea on how to use his personnel nor does he find any meaning in statistics. Any manager with common sense would put Duda behind Wright and Granderson which would allow him to come up with more men on base. In addition, Duda is leading the team OPS and has the most power on the team.

    If someone asked Collins about why Duda can’t bat cleanup but Granderson can, his reponse would be, “You let me know when Duda hits 40 HRs in back-to-back years”. I just know he’d say something as foolish as that discounting the fact that Granderson struggles to make contact, aging, playing in a offense suppressing part (especially against lefties), and has had multiple hand injuries.

    1. EYJ
    2. Granderson
    3. Wright
    4. Duda
    5. Young
    6. Murphy
    7. d’Arnaud
    8. SS

    This way, you’re allowing your 3 best hitters to have the most plate appearances per game.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    It just seems like fans are all over the place on this one. Not saying you, just in general. Everyone crying about taking Gee out at 90 pitches, no matter what. I had more than a few guys telling even with a no hitter, which is just ridiculous. But then saying 77 is too few. I mean, a lot can happen in 13 pitches.

  • mets4lyfe

    What’s scary is that I can see Collins putting Bobby Abreu at cleanup over Lucas Duda.

  • CyYout

    Travis will never steal 20 bases like Murph. That said, I think he will be a very good contact hitter with pop in the future because of his lightning quick hands so 2-hole is reasonable.

  • Matlack

    Your logic is sound. The biggest reason I’d delay the change is it looks like a panic move after 18 games, and optics are a big part of this. If you committed to a guy for 4 years, you have to presume that he isn’t broken and will return to the form on the back of his baseball card. Stay the course. But Murph needs to be lower in the lineup.

  • metsaholic

    Agreed.

  • mets4lyfe

    I remember reading scouting reports back a couple of years ago about Duda’s defense. Most said he’s definitely not a liability at 1B, but just don’t expect him to excel at it.

  • metsaholic

    Where is B.A. playiing in the lineup to bat cleanup?

  • seldomused

    Completely agree.

    I’ll never understand how people argue that Terry did a good job with the limited talent he had over the last 3 years. His day to day roster management, in game decision making, and management of players’ development are all incredibly sub par. I view it as the team outperforming expectations despite Terry.

  • CyYout

    1. The Mets can win with great pitching and a manager that knows how to push across a couple of runs so Duda can be a starter on a good team, especially in his prime years that he is entering now. 2. I see no way we upgrade first anytime soon with this tight-fisted regime. 3. Ike is the better talent, but as Billy Beane himself can attest first-hand, the better talent doesn’t always make the better ballplayer.

  • seldomused

    We traded away Ike and kept Duda as our power hitting first baseman…why make such a drastic move only to bat him 6th? Duda is 28 years old, throw him into the fire, let him succeed or fail and move on.

    I don’t think that the babysitting proves he is soft, I think it proves that this team babies all of it’s young players and in the end hurts them more than helps them. Sure Travis d’Arnaud looks lost at the plate, but if he had anyone other than Rueben Tejada behind him, he’d see some fastballs to drive.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    A manager that knows how to score runs? I think you mean an “offense” that knows how.

  • BKMike

    I hear ya. However, as a yankee he became the homerun hitting cleanup type hitter for most of the time there. it was easy.. just a lazy fly ball gets you a hr a good amount of time. and sure enough.. 40 hrs. In detroit he seemed to be a more complete hitter.. driving the ball to all fields.. which eventually lead to decent hr totals. but also a bunch of triples and doubles

    Being a leadoff hitter your mentality becomes “i have to get on base”
    Being cleanup its “i have to drive runs in”– with homeruns generally being the obvious and acceptable choice..

    I figured maybe as a leadoff hitter we can change his mentality from the pressure of homering and driving in runs to becoming a catalyst and creating them. Could at least get the monkey off his back

  • mets4lyfe

    Collins would probably put Abreu at LF and move EYJ to CF if he never plans on giving him a couple of starts.

    He probably wouldn’t even care that Abreu is a statue at this point.

  • EzRider

    Who would it look like panicking to? Us the fans who have been panicked since, well, 2007. These guys are pros and big boys. It’s not like Grandy is going to say he’s feeling the pressure but i’m sure he is. Once again this organization is trying to make a complimentary player into a savior and forcing a square peg into a round hole. Pop him into the 2 spot to take some pressure off him while “rewarding” Duda as the victor of the 1st base competition. Now that Duda is playing his natural and favored position he looks more relaxed and comfortable. I’d like to see him get the real chance to prove he belongs with no Ike Davis looming around the corner.

  • Helloboy

    Duda has not performed well as a cleanup hitter before. They tried him at cleanup before. Though he has done better this year with getting runs in.

    Right now:
    EY
    Murphy
    Wright
    Duda
    CY
    Granderson
    TDA/Recker
    Tejada

    When Lagares returns::
    CY
    Murphy
    Wrighti
    Duda
    Granderson
    Lagares
    TDA/Recker
    Tejada

    i would like to get Tejada out of here though and get the C position to 8.

  • Captain America

    Stanton doesn’t bat cleanup. Votto doesn’t bat cleanup… Freeman doesn’t bat cleanup..

    Many many 1B are not cleanup hitters

  • CyYout

    No, I meant manager. I was there for a 14-inning game last night and despite only needing one run to win and a lineup one through five with above-average speed (EY, Granderson, Wright, Murph, CY), Terry put on a hit and run exactly ZERO times.

  • elsid1986

    IMO now that Ike is away from the Hudgens and Alderson pathetic offensive philophy he will return to what he was in 2010,
    As for the Mets winning with great pitching and a manager that knows how to push a couple of runs accross the plate I would remind you that as great as Harvey was last year before he got hurt the Mets were only .500 in his starts.
    A manager can only work with the players he is given. Cant make chicken salad out of chicken $hit.

  • metsaholic

    Perhaps, but it could be weeks before Grandy adjust to hitting leadoff. Granderson may take a season to get comfortable, much like Beltran in his first year. I don’t think batting him 1st will get him there faster. The fact that Granderson is in such a weak hitting line up is not going to help either. We might not see Granderson produce at all until next year. By the middle of next year, if he’s still not producing, the Mets will be looking to eat part of the contract in a trade.

  • Mark Griffith

    Totally agree here. Some men are born to greatness. Some achieve it. Some have it thrust upon them. We’ve traded Ike. The power hitting 1B role is now Duda’s. It’s time to be great.

  • metsaholic

    Then EY plays right and Granderson is on the bench or vis-versa? Not very likely.

  • TJ

    Joe D.,
    Agree 100%. No more diapers and training wheels.

  • JamesWS

    Stop asking logical questions.

  • mynewdisqusname

    If you want your 3 best hitters at the top of the lineup, why is Murph batting 6th?

  • metsaholic

    How long did they try Duda as a clean up hitter? Was it as long a time as they tried with Ike in the spot? Not likely. Give Duda the same time they gave Ike. If they have to send Duda to AAA in order to get his swing straightened out, because he batting .161, then I will say, Duda can’t hack it.

  • mets4lyfe

    Murphy is not a better hitter than Duda, Granderson, or Wright.

  • Helloboy

    DIsagree. Duda is OK and does not “stink”. He is the bridge to Smith unless he craps the bed, which he has not done to this point.

  • mets4lyfe

    EYJ plays CF, Granderson RF, and Abreu LF.

    I’m using Collins logic here. At no point do I wish to see Abreu play defense anywhere on the field.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Hit and run is hard to do with players that can’t hit.

  • Matlack

    If this club is going to change course and become a winning organization, part of the optics should be, IMO, an aura of ‘been there, done that’. If they admit that the reason that Granderson is in a slump because he’s feeling the pressure of batting cleanup, they risk looking like indecisive chumps to the fans, the opposition, and the other 24 guys. When Curtis played hardball for that 4th year, he knew that his role here would be to bat behind DW, so moving him makes him look weak as well. By swapping Duda and Murph, no such problems arise-on the contrary, it creates the appearance of being an innovative club, like it’s something Maddon would do in Tampa.

    Logically, I get your reasoning, and in time, may support the move, but let’s see if CG can go on a tear first. If he isn’t broken, he is due.

  • CyYout

    What are you talking about? Wright was on base 4 times yesterday and Murph is a perfect hit and run guy.

  • metsaholic

    CY sits? It’s not happening. I just don’t see even TC doing that unless there is an injury to at least 2 outfielders at the same time.

  • Quinn

    Yeah exactly, I pointed the mistake out and then Joe reformatted it. It’s not a big deal though, just trying to help out

  • JamesWS

    Stop.

  • metsman

    For years I’ve been advocating for Duda since I saw him play as a Bingo Met. The time has come; give him three months with impunity to whatever he does…if he isn’t a top 10 first baseman, move on…but I think he could be easily.
    I think he should bat in front of Wright, the league is on notice that D Dubs has awoken from hibernation and Duda will get the strikes so he can become more aggresive like everyone wants him to be.

  • WillisReid

    The other thing is why not play to Murphy’s agressive approach? I think he’s more suited to 4th than 2nd.

  • trevordunn

    im just glad sandy went out and addressed this during the offseason…oh wait…Ike hitting cleanup for Pitt, Abreu hitting cleanup for the white sox

  • sarge69

    I heard TC and his talk on this during pre game and thought it was dumb and still do.
    Put Duda at 4th, Murphy back at 2nd hole and move Granderson to 6th until he gets his swing back.

    Who knew that the guy Mets needed to protect David was already on team but SA made a mockery of 1B situation and now that you can put Duda where he can succeed TC is playing psychologist.

  • everybodysbuddy

    well a lot can happen when you bring in someone cold from the pen too. Anyway like I said I just didn’t like Collins’s reason, or at least I didn’t like him saying it was for confidence reasons. And I don’t expect Collins to be right all of the time or anything. He is just acting like he is dealing with kids and I don’t think it does them any favors being coddled

  • mets4lyfe

    Abreu’s numbers against RHP >> CY’s numbers against RHP

    It’s very likely to happen with Collins at the helm.

    Chris Young OPS against RHP since 2009:

    2009: .639 OPS
    2010: .781 OPS
    2011: .694 OPS
    2012: .707 OPS
    2013: .614 OPS

    Bobby Abreu OPS against RHP since 2009:

    2009: .865 OPS
    2010: .856 OPS
    2011: .766 OPS
    2012: .686 OPS

    Plus, Abreu’s much more likely to get on base against a RHP than CY. It’s not hard to see why Abreu might possibly get starts here and there. All it takes is a little research and knowing who’s managing the team.

    EDIT: Bobby Abreu had a 1.035 OPS in 35 at-bats against RHP at Vegas.

  • metsaholic

    No doubt we need a bat like Abreu (might still be) in the lineup. But CY is not sitting for Abreu unless CY crashes and burns. Not happening.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Dom Smith needs to master low A ball.

    To presume he is going to be the major league 1B is jumping the gun. Remember, Reese Havens was going to be the Mets 2B for years. A lot can happen between A ball and the majors.

  • RyanF55

    Something I find pretty fascinating: Fredy Gonzales pitched around Eric Young JR to get to Granderson….that’s crazy.

  • RyanF55

    Yeah I agree…he’ll at least hit he ball and put it in play. He can make more happen than most others in the lineup right now.

  • Tommy

    I couldn’t agree more! Murphy is the perfect #6 hitter, plus the organization committed to Duda, so stop the B.S. and put him 4th! ENOUGH WITH THE MADNESS ALREADY!

  • Captain America

    1-25 Abreu?

  • Captain America

    Moises Alou part deux?

  • TPT

    Every time i begin to have even the slightest faith in TCs managerial skills he says and does something RIDICULOUS

  • Captain America

    He is just going to PH

  • Nmartz

    Put Duda in the 4th hole and this will be the greatest year for him.

    I think TC doesnt want to move him because he’s afraid he won’t succeed as he’s doing in the 6th hole.

  • Andrew Herbst

    I agree 100 %. TC has to stop babying Duda. He’s not a young kid anymore. He;s 28. Take off the training wheels and make him the cleanup hitter.

  • JRB74

    I didn’t say that Duda should bat cleanup because he plays 1B. I said that the Mets have no better options. If they do, please ID who.

  • El_Verdadero_Presidente

    For me the weirdest thing was watching our 4 hitter yesterday take those little flicking oppo jabs at the ball, like a 220 lb Luis Castillo. Don’t believe I’ve ever seen a cleanup guy do that.

  • TC continues to prove that he is an awesome Little League manager as far as managing his player’s emotions and he should immediately capitalize on that and find a 4th grade team with a need.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I’m sure he will when we have players that know how to hit and run.

  • RS

    Not event the Buccos think Davis is returning to 2010 form…

  • MyasDaddy

    I put my lineup out yesterday and I definitely toyed with the idea of putting Granderson leadoff. Maybe it will help him stay on the ball and work on getting on base. I’m all for it.

  • mikefichera

    love the copypasta by metsblog

  • trevordunn

    TC should be managing the newark bears….in fact, the roster has a bunch of players who belong on the newark bears (dice k, valverde, farnsworth, abreu, Kirk) nice LITTLE team sandy has put together

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Don’t worry about it. Joe gets very sensitive.

  • HamPorter

    RyanF55, You are wondering if Citi is creating a power outage for Granderson long term? How would we possibly know? Grandy hasn’t made enough contact for anyone to determine that. Outside of maybe 2 balls that he hit hard at Citi in the early going, he hasn’t exactly smoked any pitches to indicate Citi is the problem. Making consistent solid contact has been the problem.

  • HamPorter

    Has anyone considered just slotting Granderson between EY and Murphy and just moving everyone else down a slot. What would be so wrong with EY, Grandy, Murph, Wrignt, Duda. CY, Travis, shortstop & Pitcher??? Is it etched in stone that Wright MUST bat third?
    Come on people, it’s okay to think a little outside the box once in awhile. It’s not like past seasons have been so successful that we would be doomed by trying something a little different.
    This way we have a way more experienced threat in the 4th hole and you couldn’t consider it babying Duda by batting him 5th because he still has the huge responsibility of protecting Wright in the batting order and driving in runs…

  • dab394

    Collins “babying” Duda is irrelevant. What is important is getting the Mets’ best players the most at bats over the course of the season. So if the Mets want Murphy to get more at bats, place him in the 4 hole. If they want Duda to get more at bats, place him in the 4 hole. It is pretty simple, assuming the Mets decide to keep Granderson in the 2 spot where he is comfortable and the leadoff hitter comes from EY or Lagares.

  • dealingwithidiots

    I’m so glad you say the same thing 400x a day

  • Tank

    I hear at the end of the year everyone who participated will get a trophy

  • Keith’s stache

    One of my favorite scenes from the movie. I have used this line every time I saw any one of my friends acting sissy because of a breakup. Still cracks me up.

  • Matlack

    Say Hey Chago,

    Well-stated, and it’s safe to conclude that CG is no longer the player he was at the peak of his career in 2011. In 2011, in addition to his well-known power numbers, he maintained a walk rate over 12% with a strikeout rate that, while high at 24.5%, was sharply lower than what we’ve seen recently. His WRC+ of 146 that season put him in some rarified air.

    In limited time last season, his production would have scaled up to about 3.4fWAR, which is still a useful player and a legitimate MLB starter. One of the reasons I’d be patient before making a structural change in this case would be that his BABIP is sharply lower than last year, at .163 vs. .302. It’s possible that his hit tool is in free-fall, but it’s more probable that the small sample size gods are working their magic. I think the Mets paid the free agency market-rate for a legitimate starting MLB OF who is ideally suited for the 6 hole in a good lineup, but serves as a 4 in a weaker one.

    The Jason Bay experience has made skeptics of us all, which is very understandable. All that said, I’d rather have Duda hitting cleanup than Murphy, if those are my choices.

  • trevordunn

    so the PTBNL is an 18 year old A ball player. LOL so much for it being an impact positiion player

  • Nolrog

    I noticed that. MMO puts up a Duda opinion post, couple hours later, Metsblog has the same. Hmmmm.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    Babe Ruth was 18 once !!

    lmao

  • KingoftheNeighborhood

    Great job, Joe. Perfectly said. But, ugh… this is such a lousy team. I am much more interested in the farm players.

  • Keith’s stache

    I agree. Whitey Herzog made Tommy Herr into a 110 RBI man with his rabbits constantly on the move. Not saying we have a Vince Coleman we have decent speed.

  • NewYorkMammoths

  • Metsaholic

    For the change you suggest, the Mets might need a new manager. Unless TC has started being less stubborn about making changes. After 18 games in the season, he saw that moving Grandy and Valverde makes sense. This could be a sign he is no longer willing to wait 2 months before he changes things up. I hope so.

  • MetsWatchman

    I know it’s a small window, but Granderson is starting to give me Jason Bay flashbacks. With this organization’s track record on free agent contracts to 30+ year old players, Granderson’s declining numbers when he returned from injury last year, it’s not looking good so far. Except this signing will even be worse because they were dumb enough to give him a 4th year.

  • Metsaholic

    Actually, Bay’s contract is worse. 4/66. Granderson 4/60. I’m surprised Grandy got less money actually. In any case, I share your concern.

  • Martin

    Collins never knows what he is doing, but it doesn’t matter because batting order doesn’t matter much.

  • dab394

    It is so easily forgotten that Jason Bay started out his Mets career decently. He did not hit for power, but he was worth roughly 2 wins above replacement. That was not what the Mets paid for, but if he done that over all four years of his contract, it would not have looked so bad. Unfortunately, he then followed that up with a 1 win season and then a -1 win season. He got worse and worse.

    Granderson had started off so poorly that I think he has to get better. And plus, he has only been a Met for 18 games.

  • Captain America

    Wright

  • theonlymaskman

    Meanwhile, while Duda is being babied, Ike goes 2 for 4 with a grand salami! Ike is beginning to come through on his way to embarrassing the inept Mets organization. It will be interesting to compare the Davis and Duda stats at the conclusion of the season. Any bets on who comes up looking stupid?

  • METS62FAN

    IMO, U MIGHT AS WELL DEMAND A GOLDFISH CLIMB A TREE AS INSIST DUDA HIT CLEANUP PRODUCTIVELY. SURELY HIS BEST NUMBERS TO DATE ARE AS A #4 HITTERR; SIMPLE MATHEMATICS AS THE VAST MAJORITY OF HIS ABs WERE AS A CLEANUP; THEREFORE AS HIS BEST SUCCESSES WERE @ #4; I’M CONFIDENT TO STATE MORE THAN LIKELY MOST ALL OF HIS MOST DESPERATE FAILURES WWERE EXPERIENCED AS A CLEANUP HITTER AS WELL.
    I’M A FIRM STEADFAST BELIEVER, IN SPORTS, IT IS MOST IMPORTANT TO ACHIEVE VICTORTIOUS RESULTS THAN HAVING A WINNING STRATEGY.
    PERSONALLY, I SUSPECT, THE CURRENT REGIME’S HIGH;IGHTING OF OBP AS A KEY POSITIVE EVALUATION “MUST” MORE THAN LIKELY MEANS THE VAST MAJORITY OF TARGETS WILL BE THOSE WITH TOP OF THE ORDER SKILS, NOT SO MUCH IN POWER CONTACT ACCOMPLISHMENTS.
    AS THE MOST CONSISTANT HR,RBI THREAT ON THE ROSTER, I WOULD PREFER TO GET FEWER ABs FROM WRUIGHT AS A #4 THAN A LEFT ON BASE TOO FREQUENTLY AS THE #3
    A POTENTIAL LINEUP CONJECTURE COULD BE;[PURELY SPECULATIVE]
    C.YOUNG
    C GRANDERSON
    D. MURPHY
    D. WRIGHT
    J. LAGARES
    L. DUDA
    TDA
    R. TEJADA
    PITCHER
    WITH DELGADO @ CLEANUP WRIGHT AS #3 WAS THE OBVIOUS BEST FIT; CARLOS IS LONG GONE WITHOUT A PER CAPABLE REPLACEMENT ACQUIRED YET WRIGHT IS STILL CEMENTED IN PLACE.