It’s Time For Sandy To Resolve Shortstop Situation

New York Mets Spring Training at their Minor League practice facility located within Tradition Field in Florida

If there’s anyone in Mets camp who is in desperate need of a change of scenery it’s Ruben Tejada.

After the Mets shortstop committed an error and then sailed a throw to first base that kept the Mets from completing a double-play, the SNY booth had this exchange (courtesy of MetsBlog):

Hernandez: “I’m beginning to think that maybe it’s in Ruben’s head now, his defensive game.”

Burkhardt: “He needs a shot of confidence, Keith, there is no question about it. He made that error the other day, he made a couple of misplays in that game, and he just doesn’t seem as confident. You know, he’s doubting himself and I don’t know that things have been helped by the shots put out by the organization. I really don’t think that has helped, to be quite honest.”

Ojeda: “He just looks like he’s in between at the plate and in between defensively. It stems from not knowing who is yet. He doesn’t have a basis for who he is and he’s searching. The game starts moving real fast at this level.”

Burkhardt: “If you’re Tejada, you come in, you do what the organization asked – he clearly wasn’t in the shape they wanted, he didn’t have a good year – so he goes to camp in Michigan, gets in shape, does everything, gets to camp early, then immediately upon camp starting there are shots in the newspaper about Tejada not being in the shape they want. I don’t know that that was the best way to start things with him when he did everything you asked him to do.”

Hernandez: “Look, he’s in the doghouse last year. … If you feel like you’re not liked by the front office, you’re not going to perform up to peak unless you’re a real hard-nosed guy and the attitude has to be: ‘I’ll show those son of a guns, watch me.’ That’s the kind of attitude you’ve got to take.”

Burkhardt: “Here’s the thing, if they don’t think he’s the shortstop, they’ve got to find someone else who is. That’s the bottom line.”

Hernandez: “Well, I don’t think he’s in camp.”

Ojeda: “They’re gonna try Wilmer Flores later on this week. Is there enough time left in camp to make that decision?”

Hernandez: “I don’t know if Flores is gonna have the range. I have to see his arm. I don’t think he’s got the arm from shortstop. We’ll see.”

Wow… That’s pretty telling… In the span of a few minutes, Kevin Burkhardt, Keith Hernandez and Bobby Ojeda covered the whole of the Mets quandary at shortstop.

You’ve got to feel bad for Tejada who is in a very tough spot. It’s amazing to observe how his path has evolved since Sandy Alderson pegged him as the heir apparent to Jose Reyes. It started out as a roar, but it’s clearly at a whimper now.

I wish Terry Collins understood how important it was to play Wilmer Flores at short so that the front office would know what they have already. They still haven’t the slightest clue… Collins obviously doesn’t get it…

I haven’t been the biggest proponent for Stephen Drew, but at this point it might be time for Sandy to pick up the phone, swallow his pride, and make him a two-year offer he can’t refuse.

Do it for the team… Do it for the starting rotation… Do it for Ruben Tejada…

Or perhaps you turn to the West and swing a trade for Nick Franklin even if it might cost you one of the young arms from our prized stable. The reason you build depth is exactly for this reason – to have some trade chips for what your organization needs – and right now there’s a five-alarm blaze at shortstop.

In my opinion, Sandy Alderson started this mess and it’s now on him to clean it up… Grab a broom, Mr. Alderson…

(Photo by Anthony J. Causi)

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About Joe D 7835 Articles
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73, '00 and '15, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction and interact with other passionate Met fans like you. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
  • PessiMets

    come on! this team is a 90 win team with Ruben penciled as the starting SS and whoever at 1B!

  • Captain America

    C’mon get franklin

  • Emanuel

    This organization is a joke. Even at his best Tejeda was barely a major league shortstop. The fact that they let go one of the top 3 ss’s in the game (reyes) and refuse to replace him with someone who is at least half decent is a slap in the face to every met fan, I’m going to watch the games because I love the team but I’m really starting to agree with those who are boycotting going to the games. You want us to come put a product out there…we don’t owe the Wilpons anything. They have a business they need to run it accordingly and give us incentive to come to the games. Because what happens to most business men who are not willing to reinvest in their business, is that they go out of business.

  • trevordunn

    Tejada at SS and Ike/Duda/Satin at 1B just represents the failure of sandy Alderson….sandy lovers are braindead if they think this guy has done a great job.

  • Lotus1209

    Sign Drew. 2 years 22 million with a plate appearance based option for the third year. Don’t give up Montero or deGrom. We may seem to have a surplus of pitching but none of it is established yet. We can’t trade Montero thinking Syndergaard is going to be better. Everything is different at the major league level. Keep the surplus until it’s established, then seek to trade. Simple.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I really don’t think the fans know more about what’s going on at SS than Sandy & Co. They know they need to resolve the situation.

    At this point, it seems like it’s more important to the fans than to the Mets to see Flores at SS. They’ve spent years watching him play and he’s been down there in ST. He’ll get into games at SS, but I think they’ve seen enough to know if he can play there or not.

    If they thought he could, wouldn’t they have given it to him already?

  • Canoli220

    I have a feeling that Sandy and Boras have a deal in place. I think they are just waiting for opening day so Drew can’t be offered arbitration at years end. There’s really no feasible way Tejada can be the starting SS. He will wilt under the pressure.

  • Alex68

    he hasn’t resolve the team situation, what makes you think he’ll resolve the SS situation!? 77-74-74 and most likely 76, but hey, this year i can see ppl having an excuse for sandy when we’re out of it by june, it’s tejada’s fault

  • sperry

    I know it can’t be easy to perform when your bosses are constantly knocking you in public, but I really don’t think it’s mental at this point. With Ike, yea, I think it is all in his head–we’ve seen him perform at a pretty high level so obviously the talent is there. His head is just a mess.

    With a guy like Tejada, whose ceiling is a .270 singles hitter with mediocre defense and no speed, I don’t think his failure to achieve that is mental. When your talent teeters on the line between bench player and minimally acceptable for a starter, the room for error just isn’t there. And now we’re seeing the result of that.

  • I wasn’t (am not) totally sold on Drew but at this point, there doesn’t seem to be much choice. The only hope is that Ruben performs better if he knows that he is the entrenched starter however, that’s a huge gamble and he has to perform to get that label.
    Time to get it done. Get Drew for 2 years, save Montero for the rotation or a future trade and see how Cecchini or Rosario look at the end of the deal.

  • yeah it doesn’t make sense that Collins is just clueless about starting Wilmer at SS. It’s not like Sandy can’t say “Terry, start Wilmer at SS so we can see him”. They already know he can’t play SS.

  • schadenfreudianslip

    Joe, do you dismiss the possibility that they are holding to their 1 year deal offer and this will all go down the 2nd day of the season? I know everyone is talking like Drew isn’t coming here, but if he does, its that scenario. And if that was the plan, for Boras and Drew, they certainly wouldn’t acknowledge it in advance publicly, would they?

    Not saying its going to happen, just wondering if you have some inside juice that its even less likely than it appears (which is unlikely).

  • Pete and Repeat are in a boat. Pete falls out. Who’s left?
    trevordunn

  • jjong

    I think it is in Ruben’s head. I do not think Drew is the answer especially when he is injury prone. There is really no clear answer but yes, it is a mess that needs to be cleaned up.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Haha. Ok. It’s because Collins is stupid. That must be it. Give me a break.

    You can want him at SS, but that doesn’t mean he can play there. He’s been in the organization for years. He didn’t just appear out of thin air. They know plenty about what he’s capable of.

    He’s going to get his time at SS, but he’s also played there before and they moved him off, or have you forgotten? And that was when he was younger and probably smaller.

  • trevordunn

    Can we forget about Flores at SS for god sake. HE IS NEVER PLAYING SS. They clearly don’t want him playing SS, plus with him at SS and Murphy at 2B, that would be the worst up the middle IF defense in the history of the sport….SANDY HAS TO GO OUT AND ACQUIRE A SS WITHIN THE NEXT 2 WEEKS. The clock is on him now. Enough of this garbage. If he shows up to opening day without improving SS, he will have proven his incompetence as a GM

  • Thanks for the question. I don’t dismiss anything, you may be right. Nobody really knows and much of what’s out there is speculation and not fact.

    However, Drew certainly isn’t worth the 4-year, $60 million deal he’s looking for, and he’s certainly worth much more than the one-year $9 million deal the Mets initially offered.

    There’s plenty of middle ground there.

  • he’s not injury prone. He has had one serious injury that took a long time to heal but it wasn’t a physiological problem, it was a broken ankle

    MMO had a good article on it

    http://metsmerizedonline.com/2014/01/tackling-the-four-main-arguments-against-signing-stephen-drew.html/

  • I was agreeing with you, dumas

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I just assumed sarcasm since that’s basically what most people want to believe.

    My bad then.

    Next time I’ll put on my sarcasm detector.

  • $22,000,000/2 years signed on April 1 so we Mets fans can spend all day wondering if Jeffy is trolling us with an April Fools Day joke.

    edit: my stupid

  • MetsPedes

    Either get Franklin or swing a deal for Cabrera….! I personally prefer the later.

  • CJM

    He needs to sign after the draft for the team to not lose the pick, if I’m not mistaken.

  • to be fair, I am often a dick to you so understood. But when you’re right you’re right 🙂

  • oh crap, right. Mets can’t offer him a QO after April 1.

  • Never been a proponent of Drew but at this point not having him is a way worse option. Franklin might not be an everyday player but he is a better option than Tejada as well. Seems like all the options are out there and it will be on Sandy if he lets Tejada stay out there. There is no excuse for this.

  • MetsPedes

    Couldn’t agree more. I started boycotting after they let go of Reyes. I’ve been fortunate that I can still go to games and watch them, but on the road, thanks to my job. But I haven’t been to Citi in a couple of years, and quite frankly have no intention on going until this mess is cleaned up. I also stopped buying merchandise. This is a disgrace what this ownership is doing to this franchise.

  • BCleveland3381

    Im not sure waiting helps Drew. Even if teams don’t have to give up a draft pick, they don’t value them that high. His two biggest suitors have been the Red Sox(who don’t have to give up a pick to resign him) and the Mets(who would only lose a 3rd round pick by signing him).

    If the Mets suddenly don’t have to give up a pick are they giving him 60 mil? No. Is any other team going to come out of nowhere and give him 60 million? I don’t think so. It seems like it would make more sense for him to take what he can get and try and re establish his value this season. I don’t see anyone shelling out much to get him at any point this year.

  • we know that Drew can handle SS and very well. We know that Drew is a solid bat for the position. He also doesn’t cost anything but a 3rd round pick. I wouldn’t mind having Franklin on our team by any means but I think Drew makes the most sense on a short term deal

  • BCleveland3381

    Cabrera is a one year rental and the Indians asking price is high…as it should be. If he has a good year they can just sell high on him at the deadline.

  • Charley’s Twin

    It was time to resolve this back in December 2011

  • BCleveland3381

    If I was ever a free agent I would just pretend like I was going to retire like AJ Burnett did. Then when my old team doesn’t offer me a QO, I get someone else to pay me big bucks.

  • BigAl831

    Eric Campbell is playing shortstop right now. He’s never played an inning of shortstop in his entire career. What’s going on?

  • MetsPedes

    Then again some fans have the balls to criticize Omar.

  • MetsPedes

    His defense wasn’t mediocre until they made him a FT SS. He was an awesome 2b and was an above avg SS in a PT role. This is a Sandy and Terry bad thinking that could be a FT SS and replace Reyes.

  • Agee’s Catch

    Twin, there has to come a time when we move on. We didn’t sign Jose. What’s done is done.

  • You ever read this book called Desperation? Nah, just playing with you, I’ts just Collins being Collins. LOL

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    If they thought Flores could play SS, wouldn’t they have already put him in there? What real reason is there to hold him out?

  • It’s all about his injury issues and his cost benefit relationship. I can care less about the 3rd pick, we need a guy that can stay on the field. I live in Red Sox country and everyone I know has nothing good to say about him which has always had me concerned.

    In the end a 2 year deal is probably less risk then keeping Tejada out there. Hell trade for Franklin and get Drew. If Franklin develops more then trade out Murph.

    There is no reason for nothing to be done at this point.

  • CJM

    They have put him there more than once this spring.

  • But if we upgrade Tejada to Drew we could be a 100 win team. Lets do it. 🙂

  • Twice for a total of five innings defensively.

  • Sylow59

    wrong place, sorry

  • CyYout

    I’m a fan of what Sandy has done here for the most part, but if there is one point of criticism I agree with, it’s this. He (and the Wilpons) lost Reyes, didn’t get anything back, have pinned too many and too high hopes on Tejada and simultaneously given him minimal encouragement, more like discouragement, haven’t read and rectified the situation by signing an available free agent in Drew, signing an international player in Diaz, or made a trade in what is a relatively shortstop prospect-rich market. My hope is they are planning on flipping some vets at the trade deadline when teams get desperate — Mariners, Rangers, and D-backs could very well be in that kind of situation — but beyond that I can’t find any justification for such a gross mishandling of the position for what is now almost half a decade.

  • Agee’s Catch

    Is Flores hurt?

  • BigAl831

    I don’t think he can play SS but at this point there is no reason not to let him try. And that’s what Mets fans see. Even if it is partly to appease the fan base, just give him a shot. The lack of talent and depth at the position is a little embarrassing in my opinion. I never thought I’d actually wish Brandon Hicks was still with the Mets.

  • CJM

    I guess I should edit my comment to say more than once.

  • Sylow59

    Tejada had a chance to redeem himself. That makes sense. I think Flores will get more time at SS. But remember, he’s not been very good there in the minors,

  • Agee’s Catch

    On a two year deal they could.

  • Sylow59

    in all liklihood there’s probably not a lot left and Campbell is the least likely to hurt himself.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    He’s going to start there next week, apparently. But I have to believe they’ve seen enough of him over the years and so far in camp to know if he can do it or not. Tejada looks horrible. If they put Flores out there and he looks horrible too, what kind of a position are the Mets in when negotiating with Boras for Drew or for a trade with whoever.

  • Zeus

    The Mets arent winning this year anyways, so who cares who plays SS…when they compete next year then they could trade or sign someone

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I don’t think he can play there and I think the Mets know it.

  • MetsPedes

    It’ll be a one year rental, if this team does what it does best, and let’s the good players walk away for nothing. I think if he starts on a good note, the team can offer a solid offer he can’t refuse and sign the extension. A lot of fans on here probably don’t know much about this guy. He’s been a solid .280/20/85 stats. That’s pretty awesome for a SS. Is he a GG SS? No. But he’s far from terrible and makes the routine plays, and every so often makes some amazing catches. And let’s say Ceccini and or Rosario turn out to be good and make the roster, the Cabrera could become our 2B, and we cups trade murph and get back perhaps what we gave up to get Cabrera.

  • Agee’s Catch

    That’s just crazy talking

  • BigAl831

    The not a lot left part is the sad thing. Because what’s “left” is just flat out horrible. I’d rather see Flores get couple innings here and there like they did a week or so ago.

  • Joey D.

    We were told that Ruben was the trump card for not re-signing Jose. I was curious to see what some independent evaluators were saying about Ruben prior to his call up in 2010. At the beginning of 2010 John Sickles has this to say:

    “Ruben Tejada, INF, Grade C+: At worst a fine utility guy, but given his youth (age 20) and contact hitting ability he could get beyond that. I like him as a sleeper for long-term success.”

    That same time Baseball Intellect had him as a B-.

    After his 2012 season, one scouting web site said he could be a starting shortstop for a non-playoff team.

    http://mlbscoutingreports.com/2013/03/09/ruben-tejada-50/

    Ruben was not going to be our answer to replacing Jose and it seems Sandy had no other answer in the minors, either. So we still have no shortstop today. We lack to hard hitting outfielders as well which he did not have the answers to whom would replace Beltran and Pagan. We had nobody in the minors for them, either.

    That’s one who has a long-term vision?

  • read the article I linked below. If you take out the time he spent on the DL for a broken ankle, he has average 142 games a season for his career. Not Ripken-esque but not too concerning either.

  • schadenfreudianslip

    If he signs after start of the season, the team that signs him cannot make a QO for next year. Boras believes the QO is what screwed him this year.

  • Charley’s Twin

    That’s not what I meant. The time to REPLACE Reyes was when he left. Tejada never should have gotten the job.

  • BigAl831

    If Wilmer plays and looks how I expect him to look at short, the Mets will have no choice but to do something. I’m always one to defend Sandy but they head north with Tejada as your starting shortstop, I will be very disappointed.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Having no choice is a bad way to enter a negotiation.

  • Metropolitan

    No the only way to resolve this is Drew

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    “I wish Terry Collins understood how important it was to play Wilmer Flores at short so that the front office would know what they have already. They still haven’t the slightest clue… Collins obviously doesn’t get it…”

    What do you think Flores has been doing in the organization all these years? Sandy’s personal butler? They know what he can do and what he’s capable of.

  • Agee’s Catch

    Who? Tejada looked relatively capable in 2011. They weren’t spending big on a shortstop. You have to view it in context, not in hindsight.

  • BehindTheBag

    That may have been what we were told, but shame on us if we believed it. Truth was there were 90 million reasons we didn’t sign Jose Reyes and not one of them had anything to do with poor Ruben.

    I feel bad for the guy, he’d be an above average backup in the right situation, but he plays for a team that desperately needs him to be a whole lot more. And he’s not that guy. He wasn’t that guy even back in 2012.

  • Agee’s Catch

    They know he’s limited defensively, but insist on sticking him at 2B. When given the opportunity to let him play 1B, due to Ike and Lucas injuries, they still don’t play him there. I feel they are screwing with him. I’d like to see him get a chance one position

  • right

  • Joey D.

    Hi Behind The Bag,
    Yes, I feel very sorry for Ruben, he was put into a situation way over his head talent wise and in New York City replacing home grown talent team favorite Jose Reyes with an organization that is not exactly warm to players not meeting up to their statistical projections.

    Of course the entire mess we find ourselves in today is due to money and nothing more. What I don’t understand is how so many (including Mike Francesa) say this year’s team is going to be bad but next season’s team is going to be great. We don’t have the money to spend this season and we certainly won’t have any additional revenue to spend the next one nor the minor league players to fill the holes that will still be there in 2015.

    We will hopefully have great pitching but what is that going to do with few quality players behind them?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    So you think they’re purposefully screwing with him? That it’s personal? They don’t want him in the lineup? That’s hard to believe.

  • BigAl831

    Then overpay. There’s no excuse.

  • they moved him off of short several years ago for a reason. Losing 10 lbs isnt going to make him a viable alternative. Talking about Wilmer at short was nothing more than a negotiating ploy with Drew. If there were any belief he could be a viable SS, we’d be seeing him play there. If it were possible, they’d be falling over themselves to give the job to Wilmer over Tejada

  • CJM

    If Sandy has held out this long, he’s not gonna break down because their options are thin. Plus, what choice does Stephen Drew have? It’s not like he’s swimming in offers.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Easy for you to say. haha

  • HarveyKsYou

    For anyone interested, tomorrows Mets Cardinals game will be shown live on MLB Network.

  • Sylow59

    I put my response to BigAl here first.

  • Sylow59

    They don’t bring everyone.

  • Sylow59

    “You have to view it in context, not in hindsight.”

    Where’s the fun in that? 🙂

  • WillisReid

    So playing 2B, SS and 1B for a guy everyone knows is limited defensively wouldn’t be jerking him around?

  • eric

    because they are stupid the same reason Lagares sat and Ankiel was signed. The same reason that Colon was signed and Montero and Noah S will be in AAA.

  • Sylow59

    “the Red Sox(who don’t have to give up a pick to resign him”

    Technically incorrect. They would lose the compensation pick.

  • QueensRussell

    Anyone remember the NYT article on Ruben from like two years ago? That piece claimed he came with so much promise, so much talent, and so many baseball smarts. Dunno, but it’s as if all of these factors have disappeared.

    He’s so young, but he seems so done–at least for the near term. A shame!

  • joeythew

    Thanks.

  • joeythew

    Yeah, but supposedly he’s in better shape and faster than he’s ever been due to attendance at that fitness camp. That’s why Terry needs to play him at SS to see if that is indeed the case.

  • Sylow59

    Why would the Indians trade Cabrera? They’re in the hunt October and Lindor is pro bably a year out. So why would the Indians trade him? And for what?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Not if he hasn’t show an aptitude for any one position. I’d call it bending over backward to find a role for him.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    And he will this week apparently. But they’ve also seen him play for years now, in addition to fielding drills in ST. They already know.

  • iAmDevlynT

    Hey fellow Mets fans.. Loyal reader here finally decided to join the feed..

    Honestly, this 2014 Mets team has the potential to make a run at a wild card spot.. but that potential lives and dies with Ike Davis. .270, 25+ HRs, 85+ RBI = Contender.. Ike of the beginning 2012 and all of 2013.. another 75 win team.

    Plus.. I wouldn’t kill Tejada.. He’s just doesn’t belong as a starter.. If we got an upgrade that’ll push tejada to the bench.. Tejada wouldn’t suck quite as much

  • Sylow59

    He had one season with 25HRs, then 16, then 14. Prior to 2011 he never hit more than 10.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Well, Montero and Noah have to do with being cheap, not so much stupid. And Lagares played plenty last season.

    Again, any real reason? You don’t think the reason is they already know he can’t do it?

  • BehindTheBag

    Here’s the win/win situation. Just play Flores at SS all year. I don’t care if he is the Dan Uggla of SS’s, let him get his bat in the lineup every game. His bat is where he’s going to make his money and contribute. Keep Ruben as your backup middle infielder. And play Duda or Davis, I guess whoever is upright.

    The goal in 2014 should be to figure out if have above average major leaguers at 1B, SS, C, and CF, or if we need to go shopping. Second goal is to get Thor and Montero a taste of the big leagues and make sure they will have a role to play in the 2015 rotation.

    At that point, it will all be about health.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Adam Rubin says Flores at SS tomorrow. Sandy obviously reads MMO.

  • bostongregg

    “I wish Terry Collins understood how important it was to play Wilmer Flores at short so that the front office would know what they have already. They still haven’t the slightest clue… Collins obviously doesn’t get it…” I have to assume that if Alderson wanted to see Flores at short, all he would have to do is pick up the phone and say “hey, Terry…..play Wilmer at short”…..obviously this hasn’t happened, but I don’t think the “blame” (if that is the right word) lies with Terry.

  • bostongregg

    …..a lineup of Flores at short, Murphy at second and Duda at first might be the worst fielding infield of all time. And yes, that does matter.

  • Sylow59

    I would agree, but I think they’ll try it to rule it out though. Short leash.

  • That’s all the media needed was to find out that Alderson was writing the lineups for Terry. That would be a National story not just a NY story.

  • Welcome to MMO Devlyn…

  • Gracias…

  • bostongregg

    ….hate to disagree with you but I think it’s safe to assume when a GM needs to see how a player handles a position he has the leeway to “suggest” that it happen (especially in spring training). Big difference between that and “writing a lineup”.

  • Andrew Herbst

    I hope Flores start to hit so he play ss.

  • BehindTheBag

    Why does it matter this year?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Because they’re built on pitching.

  • iAmDevlynT

    Thanks Joe D.. What are your thoughts on what i posted about Ike and Ruben?

  • DrDooby

    Wilmer Flores will never be a starting major league SS.
    His range – at best – may have reached the level of David Wright & Daniel Murphy thanks to losing weight and gaining speed. It’s possibly improved from 30 to 35 or even 40 on the MLB scouting scale. But you’d want at least 50 from any starting SS.

    He may be playable there in an emergency. But it’d be a huge success if Flores became playable at 2b – which most people doubted a year ago.

    But it’s more & more apparent that Tejada can’t stay either.

    Stephen Drew is out there and an obvious fit. Just get it done.

  • metstastic

    I think there is a reason to the madness.. and that is to get Flores to to play every infield position so he can possibly be the super infield sub. However, his batting .067 this spring isn’t helping things.

  • trevordunn

    Flores at SS, Murphy at 2B and Duda at 1B….LOL. every ground ball to the IF will be a base hit or an error

  • sperry

    Or he’s been watching the same torture as us

  • Matt Mosher

    The team is run by idiots. From the top down.

  • I would agree. If that Ike shows up on Opening Day, the Mets could contend for most of the year assuming typical production from Wright, Grandy and Murphy.

  • BehindTheBag

    We are not winning this year agreed? In which case it doesn’t matter if we win 64 74 or 84 games.

    I’m not suggesting we tank but I am suggesting we prioritize playing time for youngsters over wins.

    There is a psychological cost to a pitching staff having a bad defense. But it’s more important to get a long look at the bats. And if Wilmer hits to projections he will add more wins with his bat than he costs with his glove.

  • jason bay

    There were tons of SS’s, catchers, OFer’s and relief pitchers drafted or signed before Alderson was hired that are providing their teams with good performance, pieces to trade and comprising top prospect lists in AA and AAA right now.

    The fact that we didn’t get any (or very few) if them is not Alderson’s fault and either is the fact that the Mets are broke.

    The four top candidates for SS produced by the previous FO are Lagares, Tejada, Tovar and Shields.

    Catcher wise it was/is Pena, Forsyth, Doyle, Cordero with Centeno and Thole almost after thoughts

    OF was Fern, Javier Rodriguez, Duda, Kirk, Cecilini, Vaughn, MDD and Puello

    The reality is we are now paying the price for almost two decades of poor player development and without anything to trade and any money to spend we will have to go with bookmarks whether they come from our system or the scrap heap because teams aren’t falling all over themselves to trade top players and prospects for guys like Davis, Duda, Vaughn and Kirk.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I would say it does matter if we win 64 or 74…of 84. Improve by 10 games? That’s a big deal.

  • somedude718

    In terms of our return for Reyes (comp pick: Plawecki), we did OK, especially considering that was our consolation prize for “going all-in” that year, and falling on our face. We were within striking distance by the trade deadline that year, and Reyes had just come off an injury earlier that July (hurting his trade value). We can argue that we may have gotten more value for Reyes in a trade, but I can’t kill SA for how he handled that, tbh.

    As far as SS goes, it needs to be addressed. The last 2-3 years, we weren’t going to compete with our payroll and lack of payroll flexibility, so I understand throwing Tejada out there and see if they can catch lightning in a bottle. Paying Reyes would’ve been a wasted gesture, if they could even afford it. Now, we have all the flexibility you could ask for: if you can’t trade for our SS of the future (hopefully without sacrificing Montero or above) by OD, sign Drew to a 1-year deal and keep trying to trade good young pitching for a good young SS.

  • bostongregg

    You had better be a strike-out/fly ball pitcher with that defense behind you or else you’d be placed in a loony-bin by the All Star break.

  • CJM

    I bet on Mets over 74 wins, so it matters for me.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    He’ll be at SS tomorrow. We’ll see.

  • Eyeball

    I’m so on the fence with this.
    The likelihood of Wheeler becoming a top of the rotation guy, Mejia being healthy, & Montero/Thor/deGrom becoming solid guys is slim. Chances are that most of those don’t happen, and these guys suddenly have no value.
    But then again, if we do get lucky and most of this happens, we’d have more trade chips than we know what to do with.
    Either way, I’m not in love with Drew, but just for a year of salary + no 3rd round pick, it’s probably the best option. Settles SS & potentially leadoff for a year, at least.

  • Pedro’s Rooster

    Real short leash–meaning the first time he commits an error, fans will poop themselves in furious anger, and TC will overreact and pull the plug.

    He has no chance, even if he’s halfway decent (not saying he will be). If he does well, it’s small sample size. If he makes a mistake, well, we were right all along.

    I have no problem if they don’t think he can do it. Just don’t insinuate that you’re giving him a shot there. Put him at 1B while oaf and oafer are hurt.

  • EzRider

    I would agree when it comes to spring training. I’m sure SA is saying that he wants to see certain guys at certain times in order to gauge what he does and does not have to work with.
    This would be more of a story come the regular season. I may be jumping to conclusions but i’m thinking we’ll be seeing more Flores at SS from here on out. Probably not too much Davis since his injury has progressed to him being in a boot. His body is about as brittle as his psyche. I guess Valley Fever really does take it’s toll.

  • DrDooby

    Hi Joey D.,

    when did Alderson mention Tejada as the or even a reason for not re-signing Reyes ?

    And even if he did talk him up, you wouldn’t take him literally, would you ? After all, there were no restrictions financially for 2012 and 2013 either, right ?
    And being 10 games under .500 in mid August 2012 and 10+ games out f any games, Alderson also stated that by no means he had given up on 2012 and wasn’t even thinking about 2013 yet and instead made a major move trading Pedro Beato for Kelly Shoppach.

    By the way, check out the career of former CWS SS Mike Caruso:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/carusmi01.shtml

    Sounds pretty similar, doesn’t it ?

  • agetting

    exactly…I can’t understand these posters that think its OKAY to have Flores SS Murphy 2B and Duda 1b until they watch the games and see every ground ball turning into a base hit or an error with our young pitchers we are trying to develop on the mound

  • agetting

    why not play Wilmer at 1b? He’s not a long term solution at SS

  • Anthony

    Team made mess

  • EzRider

    That Dodger’s infield of the 70’s and 80’s were some pretty bad fielder’s.

  • DrDooby

    It’d be nice if the young arms wouldn’t be forced to try to strikeout everyone with the worst defensive Infield in the majors.

    Get a legit SS, Sandy. At least defensively.

  • iAmDevlynT

    Question.. How’s the D’backs 2B & 3B situations looking? Could they possibly use Wilmer Flores as part of a trade for SS Chris Owings?

  • Timothy Rosegarden

    Just sign Drew. Maybe it isn’t going to be the perfect deal, but he’s shown that he gives a team steady defense and a little bit with the bat, too. Tejada had his moments in 2011 and 2012, but we’re talking about a guy who in his best years still has an OPS below .700.

    I understand the “wait for the perfect fit” model, but I don’t think you can let the best fit sail by at the expense of finding something perfect that doesn’t currently exist.

  • WillisReid

    He needs to land on a spot and get reps until he’s at least passable. 4 weeks of ST at 1B, 2B or SS isn’t going to cut it,he needs to play extensively in Vegas. Seems like he’s destined to be a 2B here anyway.

    They did the same thing with Murphy and fans felt he was being jerked around.

  • louisrstennes@yahoo.com

    Well TC how’s that 90 win season looking now?

  • EzRider

    I think they’re good with Prado and Hill. May need some pitching though. Same as Seattle.

  • bostongregg

    There are two things I want out of this season: 1) I obviously want the Mets to do well; and 2) I want the Royals pitching staff to be horrendous. Why? Having watched the impact a great-fielding first baseman can have on an entire infield (think Keith; think Olerud) I want Eric Hosmer. He still hasn’t signed a long-term deal. The Royals apparently have a stud first base prospect coming up. And we have young/cheap/excellent pitching. I’ve made this case before and I’ll make it until I see Hosmer sign a long-term deal. We’d have to give up a ton to get him, but that guy could anchor our infield AND our lineup for a long time.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Ask Sandy Alderson. It was his prediction.

  • Anthony

    But they had talent

  • jason bay

    The teams problems are due to lousy player development.

    If we had drafted Stanton, Simmons and McCutchen (which we could have) the team would be predicted to win 90 by everyone

    Same goes internationally with Bogaerts, Tavares and Polanco.

    The list of players we “could have” signed or drafted is enormous.

    Trout, Myers, Yelich, Pederson, Freeman, Kimbrel, Escobar, Sardinas, Segura, Arcia, Espinosa, Crawford, Franklin, Owings, Grigorious, Iglesis, Hardy, Hanson, Profar, Andrus……

    Tons of guys who would have consigned Madoff to the accountants instead of the sports pages.

  • Captain America

    So screw defense if you can hit?

    No way buddy

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Murphy was garbage in the OF and couldn’t play 3B bc of Wright. So they put him in AAA to learn 2B. Now, if you’re willing to put Flores in AAA, I’m fine with that. But it seems most fans aren’t.

  • trevordunn

    13 million a year for Peralta or 11 mil a year for Drew? as usual the Cardinals were ahead of the game and made the right decision…..Sandy should have signed Peralta for 13 mil a year, the dude would be our number 5 hitter….But no, Sandy and his braintrust completely screwed this up as per usual

  • WillisReid

    Mentioning 90 wins is possible in a staff meeting isn’t really a prediction.

  • agetting

    Is Iglesias the starting SS for the Tigers? He’d be a nice guy to pickup in a trade

  • Anthony

    I feel these guys over think it at times

  • bostongregg

    The Dodger field captain for part of this period, Lopes was a Gold Glove winner
    at second base in 1978. Garvey won Gold Gloves at first base from 1974 to 1977.
    It also should be pointed out that Cey tied a league record in 1979 with only
    nine errors at third.

  • igotyourbackman

    maybe he has a drinking or drug problem… at least i’d like to think so so as to be able to explain it…

  • CJM

    Maybe they are gonna give him a real chance. Can’t say until it happens one way or another.

  • Jokester Milledge

    Well if we find ourselves on pace to win 84 games a couple weeks after the all-star break, Sandy would probably shift into playoff-push gear…..in which case it would matter.

    However, I do agree that Flores needs to get in this lineup SOMEWHERE. Whether he gets a back-up SS role or plays 1st, 2nd and 3rd when regulars need days off so be hit. 300-400ABs at the major league level this seems will be critical in his development

  • WillisReid

    He has no position on the Mets.

  • Vin

    I think the only thing clear at this point is that the Mets must move on from Tejada.

    Don’t know what Seattle wants, or if Franklin has any better range then Flores, and Drew’s agent isn’t going to take a dime less then top dollar from the Mets right now. So, Alderson isn’t going to bite in either case under those circumstances.

    Tejada, though, is showing zero toughness, and that comes after showing little commitment last year and little progress with his physique this year.

    So, they’ll play Flores some while the FO tries to dig up non-Franklin /Drew options and the staff ties to resuscitate Tejada to make him look like a warm body, at least.

    Not good, and probably not going to change for 2 weeks, if it changes at all this Spring.

  • RS

    “they better win 90” – Fred Wilpon

  • ill_egl

    The problem is youve made alot of assumptions in your above statement. Do you know for a fact that Flores is that bad at ss defensively? Have you actually seen him play there? I certainly havent. And im not saying hes going to be great but considering the situation has unraveled like this its only right to give him a chance to get some work in and determine if hes a viable option there. He may actually turn out to be more solid than anyone wouldve guessed- particularly with Wright having very good range at third. If he plays and he stinks then its time to count him out at ss, but the only way to know for sure is by putting him out there- and it would make all the sense in the world to do that while the games dont count.

  • EzRider

    But who exactly are we getting to help right now?
    Drew, a career .979 fielder at SS.
    Morales, a career .994 fielder at 1st while Duda(smaller sample size) is a career .995 fielder at 1st.
    Not saying i disagree that something needs to be done just who and what?

  • Timothy Rosegarden

    Yeah, it’s a real shame when a New York team has a lower-tier payroll. Normally, getting a Peralta or Drew wouldn’t have been a problem, and while I don’t think either would have been a knockout pickup, both are proven entities and substantial upgrades.

  • DrDooby

    The Mets drafted a grand total of 2 (in words two) SS prospects during the six drafts under Omar Minaya.
    Reese Havens (considered a future 2bman) in 2008 and Robbie Shields in 2009.

    So, where should have those shortstops come from if they were never drafted ?

    To be fair, inheriting a farm system totally lacking pitching talent, that’s where most of the picks went. And to safe low ceiling / high floor corner players.

    The lack of valid SS options today can be tracked back to decades of neglecting the farm system.

  • WillisReid

    Saying they better win 90 games in the same meeting is also not predicting the team will win 90 games.

  • RS

    There’s the thought that now you either sign him to more than on year, or you have to wait till day two of the season to sign Drew on a one year deal.

    A part of me thinks there’s no way the Met’s do nothing at short before the season, but last year’s outfield debacle has me worried.

  • agetting

    I think its 100% fair at this point to make assumptions on Flores. I’ve read multiple times “no scouts” think he can play SS at the major league level. We have already seen how slow he is. Heck…the Mets won’t even give him a look at SS in ST for a reason. It’s obviously because they really really don’t want to put him there. Conclusion…he’s a well below average defender at SS. We know for a fact he’s very slow footed.

  • bostongregg

    I love Flores bat, but I absolutely sense that the experiment of having him at short will last about as long as Mike Piazza at first.

  • Dave_in_Spain

    I care, because I´m tired of seeing non-competitive baseball. And who´s available next year to sign or trade for that´s better than what´s available now?

  • EzRider

    I’m not certain but i think it was more a term of years as opposed to dollars. Probably wrong though.

  • agetting

    Drew is the answer…otherwise you need to look at trades or stick with Tejada at SS. I don’t think Flores is any answer to the equation at SS and I think it’s VERY obvious the Mets don’t intend to play him there when the season starts in April, which is why they are giving him MINIMAL time at SS in spring training. They’ve seen him play, they already know. I believe they are right about it. The Mets can’t completely ignore defense

  • RS

    And according to Keith, he may not have the arm for it either…

  • DrDooby

    Peralta supposedly asked both the Yankees & Mets to top the Cardinals offer of 4-years, 53 million by offering 4-years, 70 million.
    Does anybody seriously believe that Peralta would have chosen the Mets, had they matched the Cardinals offer. And who believes Peralta, a fringy defender now, will be a legit SS in 2016 or 2017. He sure makes a ton of sense for a team like the Cardinals in the middle of a contention window. But he really wouldn’t have for the Mets at that price.

    Stephen Drew at 2-years, 22 million would be a nice fit. Much better defender than Peralta and an average bat for a SS at the very least. But unfortunately, the Mets haven’t signed him yet…

  • RS

    Duda/ Ike have more power. (Duda hit 15 in limited action last season)

    Wilmer hasn’t played much 1B

  • EzRider

    Well we need to see anything. Not much will happen until the team sees what they do or do not have. They may be moving from plan a Tejada to plan b Flores and then plan c trade and if all else fails plan d Drew after the start of the season. Drew will go to extended ST and whomever will start in the mean time.

  • BehindTheBag

    Drew for how many years? Because he’s not bringing you a pennant in 2014, so having him on the club is pretty pointless, at this point. All it means is that we don’t get to see if Wilmer can hit.

  • agetting

    I’m also not really looking at the percentages because a lot has to do with range..double play turn, etc.

  • Anthony

    I’d be worried

  • agetting

    disagree about him being pointless. Is it pointless when Wheeler, Montero and Syndergaard are on the mound giving up 4 ER instead of 1 ER in games because the middle infield has no range and can’t turn double plays?

  • ill_egl

    I wonder if those same scouts that said flores couldnt play ss were the same ones that said tejada was solid as a rock as far as defensive is concerned. Lets not act like scouts have never been wrong please. If they were that good at predicting the future they wouldnt be limited just to baseball. None of the scouts that watched harvey before last year would have put money on the fact that he would be as good as he was as soon as he was. And even if they did expect that from harvey maybe they were the same scouts that said wheeler was better than him? Scouts can make statements based on every possible metric they can accumulate but at the end of the day youre dealing with young athletes whose bodies continue to mature and grow as theyre playing in an age where technology has allowed alot of people to do things “experts” said they would never be able to do.

  • bobblehead

    Do your arms hurt when you reach that far for a trade proposal?

  • BehindTheBag

    In 2015 I agree with you, in 2014, I disagree, I think we need to find out who can play and who can’t.

  • BehindTheBag

    Can’t square putting a prize offensive prospect on our bench in a rebuilding year. That doesn’t make sense to me. I want him playing everyday somewhere, preferably in Citi.

  • ill_egl

    Im not sure whay keith was watching last year when flores was playing 3b but he seemed to have plenty of arm to me. And the knock on him has always been his range being questionable not his arm.

  • Dave_in_Spain

    Not directed at you Behind, but I´m getting really sick of the argument that ¨We´re not winning this year, so why not experiment?¨. We keep pushing back the date where we even attempt to contend. Eventually that seeps into the players´ psyche– ¨it doesn´t matter if we win or not¨. And the fans realize that the organization really isn´t interested in winning, so they stop tuning in– completely. They find other things to do in the summer instead of even listening to bb on the radio in the background. Comes a point where you have to say ¨Let´s do what it takes to win. Now.¨

  • agetting

    I agree with what you are saying if we were talking about pitchers or hitters, but when you are talking about a player’s ability to play a position defensively…it’s not very hard to see.

  • BehindTheBag

    If the betting line is 74 games, I’d rather take a chance of sacrificing a few games due to shaky defense (note that some might be offset by better offense) if it helps me get a read on whether and where Flores can play.

    Otherwise we might as well trade the guy to a team that needs a 3B.

  • Schnitzer’s Marble Rye

    Joe D (or anyone), have you heard any update/news on whether or not Flores will (finally) start a game at SS tomorrow?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Prediction. Declaration.

    Potato. Equally unobtainable potato.

  • bobblehead

    And how does Ruben Tejada help any more than Flores?

  • iAmDevlynT

    I forgot about Hill. and yeahh.. everyone needs our pitching.. but i’m with sandy on this one.. I’m noot touching Thor or Montero for Nick Franklin.. Montero vs Owings.. Maybe.. but still hesitant

  • RS

    The Braves are looking at possibly starting the season without an ace (medlen possibly seriously injured) and without/or with a very diminished Beachy. They have very little SP pitching depth for 2014. At least Sandy has gotten us that…

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    He’s been in the organization for years. They already know what he can and can’t do.

  • BehindTheBag

    Seriously, how much dWAR do you think Drew brings over Flores? And then how much do you think Tejada brings over Flores?

    It’s not negligible, but my hunch is it’s also not catastrophic.

  • RS

    Rubin on Twitter says tomorrow

  • CyYout

    We shouldn’t have been “all in” since 2006. I know it’s easy to say with hindsight, but I never felt those high-priced personalities were going to gel into a championship team. They had no grit. With respect to Reyes, I understand well the situation, including his injury and the compensation pick, which to me seems like a lucky biproduct of general inaction, but my main point is that there is no larger black eye for Alderson than the mishandling of the shortstop position. As if losing our homegrown star shortstop was’t enough, inadequate options were bandied about without any serious intent, and there seems to be no recourse in the farm or in free agency the way they see it. In short, it’s a mess, and if they’re not thinking of using some veteran pitching to steal a shortstop away, I have no idea what they are thinking. But running Tejada out there under the pretense that he’s the solution here is bad for the team, the fans, the front office, and Tejada himself.

  • WillisReid

    It was neither of those.

  • RS

    You’re right. It’s clearly a goal – one that very few think is realistic

  • ill_egl

    So do you take the standpoint then that one cannot improve their lateral quickness, overall agility, footwork, and the explosivness of their first step? Nfl players incorporate these types of exercises into the training all the time with clinics such as the one in michigan that mets players recently attended. Do i think one trip to a clinic like that will make a big difference? Not necessarily but these teams have multimillions invested in staffing and working on things such as quickness should be nothing to them. Your team has zero answers at ss, you have a guy whos familiar with the ins and outs of the position, and he also just so happns to have tremendous potential with the bat. At this point i see nothing wrong with trying to go the extra mile to make it work.

  • BehindTheBag

    That ship sailed when Harvey’s elbow snapped, and before that when we let Reyes walk.

    We’re committed to rebuilding from within. That’s the reality.

  • jason bay

    No question about it but the idea was to make up for it internationally but that didn’t happen.

  • WillisReid

    I think everyone knows 90 is the longest of long shots.

  • BehindTheBag

    Main reason for me is we also have questionable talent to audition at 1B. We have nobody else who deserves a shot at SS.

  • agetting

    but don’t you think he would be getting a lot of time at SS right now if the Mets were seeing this explosiveness and improved agility?? I’m pretty sure he’s not a real option at SS because they don’t think his footspeed and agility can handle it !

  • ill_egl

    *familiar with the position

  • RS

    I think he showed reasonable arm strength from third, but his accuracy was wanting IMO

  • agetting

    If Murphy is anchoring second base, I think its crucial for the Mets to have the best defender possible at SS going forward. That’s what I am a believer in.

  • BehindTheBag

    All due respect, he hasn’t done squat at the big league level. He had some flashes last year, but would you hand him a starting job at 3B right now if you were a contending team? He’s most definitely got some things to prove with his bat, and he needs an audition.

    They may very well have decided his long term spot isn’t SS, and I’m fine with that. But I don’t see the problem in giving him the job this year so he can develop his bat.

  • agetting

    he’s a better defender, worse offensively

  • EzRider

    DeGrom or Gee are possibilities for Franklin, IMHO. I’m hesitant on moving Montero for anyone outside a true top tier SS.

  • ill_egl

    I think thats making yet another assumption. The mets could have so many different reasons for not putting him out there yet but im not sure i believe any of them. The bottom line is if you really dont think a player can handle a position you dont go to the media and say hes gonna get some in-game action at that position. You work with him in practice and drills and then announce you wanna give him a look there. The mets have ben notorious for making decisions and failing to take action in situations that make absolutely no sense. So at this point i cant whole heartedly say they would know already what hes capable of and they would have him out there if he could do it. Its a nonstop blanket of hypocrisy with TC

  • bobblehead

    I respectfully disagree. He has no range.

  • BehindTheBag

    I agree that should be our long term plan. But if we play Flores and he hits, then we have options – deal Murphy and play Flores at 2B while importing a plus defender at SS, or deal Flores (who now has a bonafide bat) while importing a plus defender at SS.

    And if Flores doesn’t hit, then maybe he’s back in AAA in 2015, or a bench piece, having to earn his spot.

    Personally, I think in a full season the kid will hit.

  • agetting

    I don’t trust the Mets as much as you don’t. However… that’s why when I read un-biased (non Mets related) scouting reports that say “no scouts” think he can stick it at SS…I tend to find the reports credible.

  • bobblehead

    If you’re choosing between Tejada/Murphy/Duda or Flores/Murphy/Duda, you’ve got way bigger problems anyway.

  • agetting

    Fine but I think you are going to cause every single pitcher to be afraid to pitch to contact when you have that bad of an infield. It could cause damage on the rotation

  • ill_egl

    Thats fair enough. And i truthfully see where your position comes from. I just feel like far stranger things have happened than flores being able to hold his own at a position he played for years. I need to see solid evidence with my own eyes to say without question the move would never work or that it will be disastrous.

  • agetting

    That is true.

  • Schnitzer’s Marble Rye

    Hell yeah. Hopefully Flores is a vacuum out there. As far as his arm goes, I disagree with Keith — Flores appears to have a pretty strong arm. I think we’re all more concerned about his range and just his general glovework/footwork, than his arm. But we’ll see how it goes.

    If it doesn’t go well for Wilmer, it’s gonna get pretty (*even more) intense here tomorrow with the Stephen Drew/Nick Franklin talk lol.

  • Sylow59

    His bat isn’t that of a 1Bman. Granted he can outperform Duda and Ike, but it probably makes more sense they see if can play MI, regardless of how Uggla it is.

  • agetting

    I don’t think Tejada is the answer, I just don’t think Flores at SS is either.

  • jason bay

    Alderson got us Wheeler, Montero and Syndergaard and extended Niese so yeah we are in good shape starting pitching wise.

    Pitchers do generally move quicker than position players and we are now stuck in the position of waiting to see if Lagares, Puello, Duda, Tejada, Davis, Vaughn ect pan out or will we have to wait for Alderson’s drafts?

    Who can say but for a team that can no longer by players on their last legs and has next to nothing to spare in trade, those are the options.

    Not very appealing I grant you but people should have spoken up before rather than clamping to give up 1st round picks on closers and 40 year old OFers and save money by not offering arbitration to impending FA’s.

  • Captain America

    If they can’t field the position they can’t play the position

  • bobblehead

    Gotcha- long term, neither do I. If opening day were tomorrow, I guess I’d just rather see Flores out there.

  • agetting

    exactly

  • trevordunn

    do the Cardinals ever make mistakes? I trust their evaluators a hell of a lot more than the mets

  • jason bay

    He is.

    Boston had Garciapara, Irlando Cabrera, Renteria, Lowrie but that didn’t stop them from signing Bogarrts and Iglesis.

  • Sylow59

    The Cards are at the begining of their Contention Window.

    Common talk here is that the Cards plan on moving him after year 2, which is why they front-loaded the contract (much easier to move him at 10M as a 3Bman, …).

    Perralta said his first choice was St Louis, well that’s what he said here in St Louis. And that he had a 4 year contract and just wanted the Cards to match it.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    He needs an audition? You’ve been saying this whole time that we’re not winning so just give it to him and see what we have with the bats.

    You’re all over the place.

  • Sylow59

    1) Wigginton.
    2) They did draft Kozma in the first round.
    otherwise, not much to choose from.

  • ill_egl

    Thats a fair assessment. But inaccuracy can often be cured by repetition. Lets not forget that flores was paraded around the entire IF in Vegas- splitting time btwn 2b, 3b, and 1b last year.

  • RS

    I think bad footwork at short would effect throwing. I think you can attribute a lot of lagares’s success with his arm to footwork and positioning with good timing/quick release. If Wilmer has trouble getting the ball in good throwing position he may struggle.

  • ill_egl

    Youve actually watched him play ss last yr and this ST though? His range is as questionable as any, his hands are like bricks at the point, and he muffs routine plays on a regular basis… and this is the position hes supposed to be really good at defenisvely according to scouts.

  • agetting

    Tejada sucks…terrible player. I’ve hated him for awhile now. I’m not a Tejada supporter. I just don’t think Flores is the answer at SS

  • BehindTheBag

    2014 is his audition.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Years in the organization. He’s had it already. They moved him off SS, remember?

  • Sylow59

    Garvey had absolutely no range whatsoever. He had a negative dWAR from 1973-1987

    Lopes was average to bad. The year he won the GG he had a 0.3 dWAR. He did have a few (3) good years.

    Cey was good in the early 70’s.

    Errors comited and FA are not good stats to use.

  • iAmDevlynT

    I’d like to keep Gee as he is proven thus he might be the odd man out with Montero and Thor come up.. A good first half and he’ll (or Neise} might have some serious trade value.

  • Schnitzer’s Marble Rye

    I hear ya. Pure arm strength is one thing, but making all the various off-balance/difficult throws a SS makes with little margin for error may be challenging for Wilmer.

    I mean, as we all know, the biggest difference between playing SS and 1B, 2B, or 3B, is that at SS there’s really no margin for error when fielding grounders and trying to get the batter out. 1B, 2B, 3B can sometimes afford to bobble the ball/keep it in front of them, and still be able to get the runner out. A SS almost always has to field the ball cleanly to get a runner out at first base.

    Anyway, lets go Wilmer! We’re all pullin’ for ya here to be our starting SS come opening day.

  • RS

    Good point – here’s hoping Wilmer shows something

  • BehindTheBag

    Necessity is the mother of invention. We have a screaming need at SS. Wilmer needs at-bats at the big league level. Wilmer played SS for a long time. Wilmer doesn’t have the range (we assume) to play there for the long term, but for a single year? To see his bat in action against top competition?

    Where’s the downside to counteract that upside?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Again, years in the organization. We know what his range is.

    And if he comes up and looks terrible the first month, how long of a leash do you give him? What does that do to his confidence? To his trade value?

    He’s going to play there tomorrow, so we’ll see. But you’re punting on the season on March 10 because you want to see what the kids have.

  • Bail4Nails

    For the record, Nick Franklin’s SS stats for ST 14, so far:

    Defense- 6 GS 31 Innings 17 attempts 3 Putouts 14 Assists 1.000 Fielding Pct

    Offense- 6G 18 AB 3 Runs 6 Hits 3 Doubles 1HR 4 RBI .333 Avg .368 OBP .667 SLG 1.035 OPS

  • MetsPedes

    They have Lindor. He’s the real deal and ready for the bigs.

  • EzRider

    He could have trade value due to his experience and ability right now. A team looking for a proven #3-4 type like Seattle could have use. We move him and maybe one of Mejia/DeGrom/Montero gets the nod out of ST.

    And don’t get me wrong i love Gee. He is a blast to watch pitch. The kid has a ML mind for the game. He’s not top tier but neither is Franklin(defensively) who is the most realistic possible trade during ST unless another team loses an arm or two.

  • ill_egl

    You know Lagares was converted from SS , right?

  • somedude718

    I can definitely agree with you on your last.

  • MetsPedes

    Oh yeah. Let me ask you, with “all this pitching” who’s going to hit for them? Or you’re one of those that thinks that a team needs 5 #1 starters in its rotation, yet the lineup looks like crap? Oops, you must be happy cuz that’s what it is right now. Bottom line we need offense, and SS is one that we can improve. This is an All-Star player who’s only 28 and have some good years ahead of him.

  • RS

    So was Wilmer. What’s your point?

  • ill_egl

    I was just asking. Didnt mean to sound like i was trying to prove a point. I just found it interesting you brought up lagares and flores for comparisons sake and i wasnt sure if you knew that or not.

  • MetsPedes

    The three seasons he was their full starter. Before that he was pretty much their utility infielder. But even at those rates, we haven’t have this since Reyes. This kid is the real deal.

  • EzRider

    Which seems weird since he showed that last year playing third a few times but most of his throws have been down in the dirt or bounces. I wonder if he is rushing or doing it intentionally for some reason.

  • EzRider

    He needs to learn the Jeter jump pivot throw.

  • iAmDevlynT

    I see.. don’t know if its a crazy suggestion.. But I’d rather trade Neise than Gee right now.. I think Jon has much more value thus netting a better return.. Plus Neise hasn’t proven that he can remain healthy.. With Gee’s craftiness.. Their upside might be similar.

  • RS

    Ha thanks! Wasn’t being confrontational, I thought you might be going somewhere with that. Seems a lot of promising players were once SS’s.

  • RS

    Derek Jeter wants to know “Do you like Derek Jeter’s jump pivot throw?”

  • Schnitzer’s Marble Rye

    Naaaaaaaaaaaah, I much prefer the Ordoñez slide-in-the-hole and pop-up-and-throw.

  • EzRider

    Therein lies the problem for right now, Niese’s durability. No one is really looking to take him and his contract if he can’t even get on the field.

  • elsid1986

    Dont forget at the time of those drafts the Mets had a young/dynamic shortstop that they thought would be here forever. Short stop was the least of their worries. By the Way who would have guessed that JB would have posted in this topic how nothing is Sandys fauilt and its all the the fault of the last 20 years.

  • mr. belvedere

    How about a Seratelli/Tejada platoon at SS?

  • jdon48

    I think it is time for Chubby to hit the road. He is not going to make it here. So sign Drew or trade for Franklin and let’s get the season started. ST sucks.

  • elsid1986

    It really doesn’t matter who is available next year. Alderson will offer a bargain basement price then get sticker shock.

  • EzRider

    It’s fancy for once in a while. Grown tired of watching that and all that Yankee winning over the years though. Garciaparra had his own little move like that over there.

  • jdon48

    his arm is strong. I wonder about those feet, though.

  • EzRider

    Like :thumbsup:

  • elsid1986

    Well Tejada can’t play there either apparently. But odds are Flores will hit.

  • Sylow59

    1) When the Cards tried to get Cabera earlier he was not going to be traded since Lindor was destined for the minors at season start.

    2) http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/humble-francisco-lindor-awaits-big-league-opportunity-with-indians?ymd=20140306&content_id=68841920&vkey=news_mlb

    3) pesky Super 2

  • jdon48

    I hope he does well. But last year, he looked awfully clumsy. Even before the ankle, although I understand he had an ankle earlier in the season. To me at times it looked like he had his shoes tied together.

  • jason bay

    Horrendous job of drafting in the area of catchers, first basemen, second basemen, SS’s, third basemen, LFer’s, RFer’s and CFer’s not to mention bullpen candidates.

    You could have done better perusing Baseball America 15 minutes before the draft.

    Steve Phillips did a much better job with Wright, Kazmir and Pagan and got Heath Bell as an undrafted FA and his International coordinator (Minaya) got Reyes and Gomez and a couple other guys like Feliciano and Heilman so there you had a few things to work with at least.

  • 2rings

    yep, heard today that the Cards signed the Cuban SS that defected recently. Very Highly touted kid who they say is major league ready sometime this year

  • Schnitzer’s Marble Rye

    Jeter is HOF ballplayer and I respect the dude — and I’m not really even one of those Mets fans who’s a big Yankee hater (I enjoy hating NL divisional rivals more, personally), but the goddamn Jeter goodbye tour this year is going to pretty nauseating.

  • Sylow59

    “The three seasons he was their full starter. Before that he was pretty much their utility infielder”

    2008: 418 PA / 6 HR / .92 OPS+

    2009: 581 PA / 6 HR / .114 OPS+

    2010: 425 PA / 3 HR / 89 OPS+
    2011: 667 PA / 25 HR / 121 OPS+

    2012: 616 PA / 16 HR / 114 OPS+

    2013: 562 PA / 14 HR / 98 OPS+

    It’s not like he had 150PA in 2008 – 2010.

    ————-

    “This kid is the real deal”

    I never said otherwise, just the Indians wouldn’t trade him.

  • Mets Fan in NC

    As much as I like Franklin or Owings, my thought is this. No matter what Sandy says publicly I doubt he really believes this is a 90 win team. We’ll end up with some combo of Q/Seratelli/Tejada unless someone better gets waived or released by the end of camp

  • Sylow59

    He is starting at AA. He’s not all that highly touted. People are forgetting the quality of talent, especially pitching, in Cuba has nose-dived so it is on a par with A+ now. The league BA was around .300 the last time he played.

    A couple reasons the Cardsw signed him:

    1) They expect Perralta to be 2.0-3.0 WAR this season and next.

    2) They want depth at every position.

    3) They are terrified Kozma will have any playing time at SS this year.

    4) They didn’t have to trade anyone. They didn’t lose a draft pick and they didn’t lose IFA or Draft money.

    5) They actually lowered salary from last year to this and still have room..

    6) They’re just expecting a 1.5 – 2.0 WAR guy.

    Diaz was a roll of the dice that just cost money;

  • Long Suffering Fan

    In a heartbeat, I would trade Jenrry Mejia and Jacob deGrom for either Nick Franklin or Chris Owings. We are deep in starting pitching and right now we just need a shortstop who can be part of our future. Our future starting five are Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, Montero, and Matz, and we’ve got great depth behind that, so we can afford to sacrifice both Mejia and deGrom.

  • BarnRat

    Can someone explain to me why if 1) Tejada is our incumbent at SS, and 2) we appear to have zero other internal options except maybe Flores, we aren’t playing Flores everyday at short to see what he has? My answer is that the whole thing is a head fake trying to persuade Boras or Seattle or whomever that we’re not desperate. Hello! Not giving Flores serious time at SS means we’re afraid of what he will show. That’s desperate.

  • Mets Fan in NC

    Now is the time to resolve the SS situation. Helen Keller could see this was a problem area six months ago. This is why we are a second division tem right now.
    Alderson KNEW Shortstop and 1b were potential significant concerns but we stuck with what we had and both are coming up snake eyes.

  • IndianaMet

    90 wins with no SS, no first baseman, 4 outfielders, a terrible defensive second baseman and 2 catchers with a total of 300 mlb at bats. As promising as our pitching is, there is soooo much work to be done before the front office can realistically make this claim. Until changes are made, it’s all BS. And I’m an Alderson fan. LGM

  • Mets Fan in NC

    Chubby…hey don’t bring Colon into this 🙂

  • Mets Fan in NC

    I find it difficult to muster up any enthusiasm for that combo….one sucks and the other sucks more and they are basically interchangable

  • Mets Fan in NC

    If they don’t will Fred fire Jeffy

  • iAmDevlynT

    Yeahh you’re right.. That’s why I think Sandy will hold on to his guns for the remainder of ST.. But I do believe he’ll start taking aim for the July 31st deadline.. When more options will become available due to promising first halfs

  • Mets Fan in NC

    Mets do a poor job showcasing their talent. There has to be some doubt around the league on Flores if he can’t crack the Mets roster. It’s not like Ike, Lucas or Ruben are lighting it up

  • Agee’s Catch

    Not intentionally. I just think that they do not know what to do with him. I’m of the opinion that if he plays, he’ll produce. Sandy needs to make an executive decision and tell Terry where to play him. And to play him. He has an electric bat. He’d have a WAR of about 2.0. oWar would be about 6, dWAR as an MI would be -2. I think the dWAR would be better at 1B. Boots and MyHammy may not be ready opening day. I’d rather not have a 27 year old journey man or Satin there. I’d rather see Flores.

  • Mets Fan in NC

    Once Niese gets it all together he has way more upside than Dillon Gee….I think we should have sold high on Gee.

  • Agee’s Catch

    Probably true. I really want to see this kid hit everyday.

  • Mets Fan in NC

    The Captain of the John at the Citifield executive office is quite knowlegable

  • jason bay

    Hill and Prado are under contract for 3 more years.

    After those two they have a couple 3B possibilities who’ll be in AA this year.

  • BigAl831

    Those defensive stats mean nothing. I wish I were able to watch him everyday. I love the idea of his bat leading off and I hope the Mets go hard after him. Just don’t give up Montero.

  • Agee’s Catch

    If we had kept Kevin Mitchell and resigned Knight, we’d have won in 87. right?

  • Mets Fan in NC

    Pedro Guerrero, Steve Garvey and Steve Sax could at least hit

  • iAmDevlynT

    Yeahh.. Flores should definitely be playing more.. FOR US to see him more against ML talent.. But if not.. At least playing him to build trade value

  • Mets Fan in NC

    Will probably rain…and Collins will not use him the next game

  • Agee’s Catch

    I think it plays on a guys confidence

  • Both of them? Not sure I’d be for that.

  • jason bay

    Which scouts claimed Ruben was solid as a rock defensively?

  • Despite all the small sample disclaimers, color me impressed.

  • iAmDevlynT

    I’m actually happy that they haven’t traded either as of yet.. I think stacking the chips for the July 31st deadline is essential.. Unless Owings is available.. I’d pull the trigger on Gee

  • bostongregg

    Wait and see, my friend. I’m not saying the package is going to be easy for us to take (Dominic Smith; two of the stud pitching prospects to start) but way stranger things have happened. The Royals aren’t going to give him away (nor should they) and the Mets aren’t giving up three players without thinking twice about it. But two teams that have been serial disappointers that actually have the means to address the other’s major weaknesses shouldn’t be just written off.

  • BarnRat

    The problem is Mejia’s injury history. Causes other teams to focus on Montero. So given Mejia’s stuff, IF we believed he could stay healthy I think we’d move Montero in this deal (and probably wouldn’t have to include anyone as good as deGrom). So, our caution says to me we agree with Seattle / AZ.

  • BCleveland3381

    My only worry with trading for Franklin is how much Seattle has been scouting us lately. Not because they are going to know how good some of our pitching is, but because they’re going to know how bad our SS situation is. They know they aren’t getting Syndergaard, but they should come out demanding Montero for Franklin. My only worry is what Franklin is going to cost.

    If Seattle put their foot down and demanded Montero that’s a tough deal. I think I would do any pitcher under Montero’s level. DeGrom, Matz, etc is fine by me. I might say no to Montero though. Really tough call.

  • jason bay

    Pennington has a chance to fall our way.

    Good defensively, no power but good OB Vs. RHP would take 2/3rds of the games at SS away from Tejada.and hopefully wouldn’t cost much to a cquire as Arizona appears set with Hill, Gregorious,and Owings for the middle IF.

  • jason bay

    Franklin is far from a guarantee to stick at SS and if the Mariners don’t play him there (they won’t) he’ll only continue to lose value so they are in no position to demand anything.

  • BCleveland3381

    What exactly do you think we are getting Franklin for? They are going to get a really good prospect from us for him if the Mets want to make the deal.

  • BarnRat

    Sandy’s diary:

    “Wonder if Boras would go for a 10 day contract to give Drew spending money? Need to show Seattle / AZ we’re really in good shape at SS.”

    “And remind Terry again to buy the day-olds on his way to work.”

  • Martin

    How would helen Keller have noticed?

  • Mets Fan in NC

    She scouts for Sandy

  • MetsPedes

    When are the Mets supposed to go anywhere? 2020? 2025? 2030? The Mets only go as far as their players take them. Cabrera is only 28, not 35(aka Granderson). He can be part of the puzzle that we build around. As a utility infielder you can have 500 ABs, but most can’t seem to get a rhythm, specially when they’re that young. Looking at his overall since became a FT, we’re looking at .275/17/75, not far from the .280/20/85 I said before. Montero is a very good prospect, but he’s just that, a prospect. And from many scouts, he’s more to he a #3 starter. Can he become more? Sure. Can he become less? Also possible. What else do the Mets need after Harvey, Wheeler, and Syndegaard? If they pan out, it doesn’t matter who’s after them. That’s not even counting Niese, Mejia, Gee, nor DeGrom.

  • dnotch

    Joe- what are you hearing regarding who mets scouts are zeroing in on for ss help?

  • Fast Eddie

    >>>We’ll end up with some combo of Q/Seratelli/Tejada unless someone better gets waived or released by the end of camp<<<

    If that's the case, God help us. Combine that scenario with the one we have at first base and we'll be history by the end of May. Really is a shame. We want so badly to see some significant progress this year…

  • Peter S

    Trading either Thor or Montero would be absolutely a mistake. You don’t trade a top pitching prospect for a guy who may or may not be able to play SS. Cano said the Mariners need another bat. As much as I love Puello, perhaps a swap of the two would work.

  • iAmDevlynT

    I highly disagree with trading Puello.. He’s our best offensive prospect that’s nearly ML ready (Not dissing Flores here) in an already thin offensive prospect group.. Not to mention.. Puello will likely be taking C. Young’s spot in the OF after he’s traded at the deadline.

  • Hitmanᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ✔

    While I don’t hold Montero as this untouchable player many fellow Met fans regard him as, I would not recommend giving up Montero for Franklin. More bone than meat. I don’t see any point in trading him unless a higher prize like Lindor came on the table. Mets should be fishing around with other teams with bigger, better middle infield depth. Seattle and Arizona’s pool is too shallow.

  • MetsPedes

    Sy, the Indians have Lindor. It’s matter of when, not if. They need a 3B, and Flores has no room here with us. His natural pos is 3rd and that’s David’s. The Mets and Indians are a match.

  • jason bay

    I don’t want to trade any of our elite level guys because we have so few of them and especially for a guy who may in fact not be a SS

  • Denelor

    “Collins doesn’t get it.”

    Doesn’t matter the topic, truer words have never been spoken.

  • Joshua Eichenbaum

    I’d like to see the team get a deal done for Chris Owings of the Diamondbacks, as unlikely as that seems. I’d willingly give up Montero for a guy who can play shortstop and has such solid minor league numbers. Honestly, though, I think Sandy is looking to make a run at one of next year’s potential free agent shortstops (Asdrubal Cabrera, J.J. Hardy, Yunel Escobar, Hanley Ramirez, Jed Lowrie…) but we’ll see what he chooses to do.

  • jason bay

    I don’t think we are getting him but Seattle tried to trade Franklin, Pryor, Furbush and Taijuan Walker for Upton and the 40 M owed him with Taijuan Walker by far and away the centerpiece of the trade, then that is a very clear indication that Franklin is a 2nd tier prospect trade value wise. If his value was so high why did Furbush and Pryor have to be included in the deal?

    He is a guy who is difficult to value because even the Mariners have admitted that. If he was a true SS he and a Walker alone would have been an overpay.

    The most fair trade out there would be Franklin for Flores because no one knows what they have here, SS-2B – 3B-1B. That won’t get done unless the deal is expanded to include change of address guys like Duda, Ike, Smoak, Ackley, MDD, Kirk ect.

  • Tango01

    I wouldn’t get rid of Matz unless a huge impact bat came in return. Hard throwing lefty starters don’t grow on trees.

  • Bail4Nails

    It’s starting to bug me when people say Franklin “may not be a SS”. He played SS in the MiL. He played a few games there last year, and started 6 Games already this ST for Seattle, where he has played very well. He lost SS in a competition with a very good Brad Miller. He came in Second Place in Seattle, which is still MILES AHEAD of anyone at SS for the Mets right now (yes, even Seratelli). Offer Niese (before he’s out half the season). If that doesn’t work, Gee should do the trick. If we love Montero so much that we absolutely cannot trade him, then put him in the damn rotation already. What good is it having Aces up your sleeve, when you never play a hand. And the Mets haven’t played a hand in a few years now. Ante Up Sandy, Let’s Go!

  • 2rings

    AA puts him a level or a level 1/2 above any of our prospects at ss.

  • EzRider

    Well that’s not entirely accurate. Walker was the 4th in the deal and it was actually a choice between him, Hultzen or Paxton. So really the deal was centered around a big pitcher and top flight MI prospect with two very good BP pieces to boot. Also remember these are the kind of deals that get done for young, reasonably priced sluggers. It’s not like he went for less to the Braves, plus the Mariner’s were probably aware of the no trade so maybe tried to entice the D’backs to convince Upton.

    I’m wondering if the Mariners are happier now having hung on to all those pieces.

  • EzRider

    I don’t know if Niese works right now but i agree with the Gee assessment. Also as i’ve stated before, i can live with some minor defensive deficiencies if we are going to get a legit offensive prospect. Save a few of those other pieces for down the road and maybe a full fledged SS ala Lindor or Bogarts or whomever. By mid season Murph, Colon and Flores may entice the Indians to part with Lindor.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Will he hit enough to compensate for the runs he costs us? Assuming, that is, he can play there at all.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Well, he gets his first shot tomorrow.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Doubt it.

  • Bail4Nails

    Absolutely. Even if you get a great SS mid season or next, you start the year off with a good SS (Franklin) and your team might not be pathetic come All-Star Break. Then, when you can trade for a Lindor, Franklin can take Murphy’s spot if he’s traded, or be a great bat off the bench/middle infield backup.
    We are not asking Sandy to shop at Barney’s here. Just stop going to Salvation Army.

  • Dan Feinstein

    Joe D can we please get “SA SS Clock”. Set it at 168 hours (one week) to find us a shortstop that the front office and the fans can be excited about. Watching Ruben Tejada the past couple of days is like watching old yeller know that shotgun is coming yet he is still playing fetch.
    If SA doesn’t wanna pay Drew then at least make a trade. Us as Mets fans I think can agree after months of SS soap opera screenplay that we simply want change at the SS position.

  • guy2theLEFT

    She could feel the vibrations of a weakly hit ground ball rolling between 2nd and 3rd base.

  • Mike Lloyd

    Well it’s fairly obvious the Mets need a SS. The problem is because Sandy has let the problem linger, he has given Boras more leverage with Drew, and other teams more leverage to pay a premium, and meet the asking price.
    If the Mets were sure they weren’t with Tejada, and they’ve been beating the kid up to the media since ST last season, drafting and signing and trading for middle infielders (Cecchini, Rosario, and Herrera) what are you telling everyone else in MLB? That you want a long term solution at SS. I’d trade for Franklin, but would prefer if Sandy wasn’t trading from a position that his stubbornness has seemed to create, it’s not like Seattle is looking to get fleeced, it’s going to cost a good arm. Montero, maybe Mejia. 1 of them will be the price. It’s the disinterest in spending on the free agent, it’s trying to be too patient at times. It’s also trashing your players you’ve made decisions on. (Davis and Tejada) and losing leverage because of it. I want Franklin. But, at the price of Montero. No. Mejia…I would do. I think it’s ridiculous they never bid on Diaz, but….

  • Terry

    This is an easy call. Offer Gee and a few scraps for Franklin. If they say no, sign Drew. Do NOT trade Montero or any of our young arms at this point. There is a solution – STILL – on the free-agent market. He’s not great, but he’s a huge upgrade defensively and at the plate and in the locker room. You don’t need an all-star at every position. And to say “Collins doesn’t get it” is plain ignorance. If Sandy and the FO wanted to see Flores at SS he would have been there by now.

  • mr. belvedere

    haha, yeah me either but if Seratelli can get on a decent clip and I think Tejada will as well just facing LHP’s…maybe they could be league average overall?

  • Peter S

    I’m in agreement but franklin is going to cost them something. It just can’t be Montero. To me the Mets are not in position to take a pitcher and move him. The bat has to be so good (Wil Myers) that you can’t resist to move a top flight pitcher.

  • jason bay

    I’m sure they are but the Mariners took WAY less back from Atlanta. Delgado compared to Walker? C’mon. Prado a great piece to add but for the same 40 M they were off loading with Upton.

    Course the deal got expanded a bit with Johnson , Spruill and Ahmed but you have to admit Arizona’s primary desire was pitching, not Franklin. He was a more than nice add on but an add on nonetheless.

  • Aledmys Diaz signed gor $8MM guarantee over four years. Wow.

  • ill_egl

    Id habe to refer to my list of any and every scouting report i ever read or heard about all mets players. Lol. Honestly man i dont have names or dates or a bibliography i can provide you with for my statement. What i can tell you is this… all i remembering hearing and reading about was how reliable tejada was up the middle. I remember people lobbying that he be the starting second baseman next to reyes because they would make a great dbl play combo. I remember defense being sold as Tejadas strongest attribute- whether it was on the original mets.com forum which quickly turned into a disaster, or discussions and articles on amazinz.com, or early posts by cerrone when i first found metsblog. The word from everyone when Reyes left was thay Tejada wasnt as flashy in the field and didnt possess the same range as Jose but that he was solid as can be out there and that his on base skills could help out on the offensive end. Thats why it became a big eye opener when he started fumbling alot of balls we had previously seen him get to and field cleanly, and when he began to struggle getting to relatively routine hits. I mean there was legitimate shock on the blogs, on the airwaves of the FAN, and on the forums about what happened to the Ruben Tejada we had grown accustomed to seeing in the field.

  • Dave_in_Spain

    I wouldn´t trade Montero or Matz for Franklin or Owings, but deGrom, Mejia, Familia, Black, Cory Vaughn, Centeno…I´d put them all on the table. DeGrom, Vaughn, and Centeno? Something like that? deGrom, Familia, and Vaughn?

  • MetsPedes

    ST is far from over. We don’t know what the Cards might have offered, if they even offered anything at all. Nothing is imminent, and the Indians know that they have to move Cabrera before A) he leaves w/o compensation, or B) they feel afraid of him getting hurt and not able to move him at all, or he struggles again(which I seriously doubt). This is called the game of dealing. You just can’t fall for the 1st offer

  • MetsPedes

    Wow. I like the way you answer questions. Didn’t you ever hear that you don’t answer a question, with another question? Bottom line you had no answers, so you asked me a question instead. IT NEVER HAPPENS, a team needs at least a veteran SP in such a young rotation as this one, and the Mets know that maybe one or even two of these young arms is to get a bat desperately needed by this team. You mentioned Niese and Gee as the ones to be traded instead, and then again you also gave the reason as to why they won’t/can’t be traded. Great analysis though.

  • METS62FAN

    TERRY, I DON’T QUITE UNDERSTAND YOUR LOGIC OF DEALING AN ALREADY PROVEN SERVICABLE MLB GRADE BACKENDER LIKE GEE[199 IP] BEFORE RUIMORED, BUT INEXPERIENCED SOCALLED BETTER OPTIONS
    IF YOU ARE PLACING AN UNDERSTANDABLE PREMIUM ON YOUTHFUL ATLETICISM WHY WOULDN’T U CHOOSE TO SHOP IN PHOENIX, AZ [WHERE THEY’VE 2 OPTIONS ON THE MKT OWINGS & GREGORIOUS] OVER SEATTLE, WA?
    BTW, LIKELY MEJIA, BLACK & FAMUILIA ARE THE BACKBONE OF THIS SEASON’S BULLPEN & SURELY, AS SUCH, MORE HIGHLY VALUED THAN THE DIFFERENTIAL IN PERFORMANCE BETWEEN TEJADA/QUINTANILLA & ONE OF FRANKLIN,OWINGS OR GREGORIOUS.
    IMO, THIS ATTEMPT TO INTIMIDATE PLAYERS TO HIGHER PERFORMANCE LEVELS IS A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE WILPON STATEGY, FRED ONCE TRIED TO DEPLOY ON BOTH REYES & WRIGHT WHILE JEFF SEEMS MORE INDISCRIMINATE,PETTY & RUTHLESS TRYING TO IMPRESS ”DADDY’
    PERSONALLY, I BELIEVE TEJADA IS FACING WILPON WRATH FOR 1st SPEAKING OF FILING A GRIEVANCE & 2nd WALKING OUT WITH $1.1M IN 2014 SALARY.
    FOR ALL THOSE WHO ARE TOO SHORTSIGHTED AS TO BE “EMBARASSED” BY THE CURRENT LOW PAYROLL LEVEL IT IS UTLIMATLY IMPORTANT THAT OWNERSHIP BE AS PROFITABLE AS EVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS BEFORE HARVEY,WHEELER & SYNDERGAARD TAKE TURNS @ DEMANDING THEIR MARKET LEVEL VALUE. LOWERING POTENTIAL PROFITABILITY FOR A DREDGE LIKE DREW WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY PERMITING BORAS FULL CLUBHOUSE ACCESS. IS TOO IRRESPONSIBLE & MYOPIC FOR REASONABLE POSITIVE EXPECTATION AS AN OUTCOME.

  • Xavier 22

    Franklin alone is not worth Gee. Gee is a proven starting pitcher.

  • Xavier 22

    It’s not like other teams are knocking down Bora$’ door to sign Drew. In fact, I bet he’s kicking himself for listening to Bora$ and rejecting Boston’s qualifying offer. He’ll be lucky to get $12M/year now.

  • VfJ

    But fredie said so…

  • VfJ

    Because we want a lower payroll and if that leaves gaping holes in our lineup…well too bad…
    Oh and we want 90 wins…moses said so…

  • WilponsNeed2Go

    If you trade Gee, the pitching staff will have to make up a lot of innings, 199 to be exact. He was the only pitcher to even sniff 200 IP last year.
    This year looks no different. Wheeler, Mejia, Montero, and Syndergaad will be on innings limits. Its not far fetched to see Niese spend some time on the DL again this year. And its likely Colon will not be the same guy he was last year.

  • Sylow59

    1) Flores has 92 G at 3B in the minors
    2) What do the Indians do at SS until they bring up Lindor?

  • Sylow59

    the Indians were asking for Miller + 1 top 5 prospect + one top 10 prospect, roughly Wheeler + Montero + ?.

  • MetsPedes

    Lindor is ready for the majors. But if they needed him to spend a couple of weeks at triple A, they also have Mike Aviles that could hold that in the meantime. The Indians are better off trading sooner than later. But anything can happen. So who knows?

  • MetsPedes

    No wonder that trade didn’t happen. Again, idk the exact terms on what they’re asking. All I do is read and watch what everyone in mbltr, mlb network, and even ESPN reports in terms on the players that the Indians might be asking. Their biggest need is a 3B. I don’t think the Cards have to offer that. I think the SP would be the icing on the cake for them to pull such a deal. We’d have to wait and see

  • jason bay

    I thought Ruben would be a fine 3-4 year starter at SS and be competent defensively. Basically hover around average and get OB .350 and be a net plus but it does not appear to be the case.

  • jason bay

    I’d like to do something with Arizona for Pennington and a very low cost because with Didi and Owings they have young players who compliment each other and with Hill signed for 3 more years have no room for Pennington.

    I can’t think of anyone other than the Yankees who could use him either in his walk year.

  • Sylow59

    I live in St Louis. Every trade rumor for a SS was covered.

  • ill_egl

    I got the feeling that people within the organzation and some scouts felt he was an above average fielding ss with the ability to become plus as he got a little older and spent more time in the bigs. I agree with you on the offensive end entirely, and yes it appears that he isnt capable of holding up any of that promise at this point.

  • MetsPedes

    Ohh. You mean before they signed Peralta?

  • Sylow59

    yes