Fear Was Not Holding Mets Back On Trading Davis and Duda

duda davis

Not really a surprise, but Sandy Alderson acknowledged that both Lucas Duda and Ike Davis are both going to be on the Opening Day roster.

He declined to comment on who would be the first baseman, but most likely they will both share time at first base and also designated hitter. The competition will continue into the season and Josh Satin will still get most of the playing time against lefthanded pitchers.

The Mets had until Wednesday at 2 p.m. to unconditionally release Davis or Duda and owe just one-quarter of their 2014 salary, but never considered the possibility.

Joel Sherman of the NY Post spoke to Asst. GM John Ricco who told him that the Mets didn’t cut either of them for the same reason they did not simply trade one for the most appetizing of what they viewed as unappetizing trade proposals — they have seen enough power from Davis and Duda that they do not want to surrender them, see them flourish elsewhere and have nothing to show for it.

“We have our eyes wide open. We liked both guys and think if either went to the right AL team in the right park in particular they would do very well.”

“But it is not fear holding us back, really. Sandy [Alderson, GM] has been around the block. This is not about us being haunted, it is about doing the right thing.”

So, for now, the Mets believe doing the right thing is occupying two of 25 roster spots with similar players who both can’t play at the same time.

“If it gets to the point it is counterproductive, maybe we will make a decision on it,” Ricco explained. “It will evolve.”

Evolve it will, and hopefully in a good way at this point.

Do any of you have any regrets about how this situation was handled going back to the very beginning when both were called non core players by the GM as the season was winding down, and each of them were shopped aggressively and unfortunately publicly as well.

How do you think this ultimately plays out?

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  • Charley’s Twin

    How do you think this ultimately plays out?

    Poorly.

  • JRB74

    Fear–no. Stupidity and ineptness–yes.

  • One of the decisions the Mets HAD TO make in order to get better as a team they refused to make. Their comfort zone is losing, and this seals it. They needed to man-up, pick one, and move onward and upward. But they are afraid, as the writer said.

    Bad job by Alderson.
    BD

  • shouldaswung

    Agreed. Davis or Duda? To quote Marge Simpson “Who gives a doodle?”

  • oleosmirf

    The problem is simple. If you cut Duda or Davis and the other one stinks, you don’t have a 1B and have to rely on players like Murphy or Satin, who at their very best are below average everyday 1B.

    Obviously Sandy is not going to come out and say that, but that’s the reality of the situation and the Mets only hope of contending is if one of those two have a really good year.

  • Lotus1209

    Davis will get the month of April at least to prove if he has found his stroke again. If he comes out of the gate struggling mightily again he will be cut or sent down to give Duda the 1b job. Plain and simple

  • Just_Da_damaja
  • Sandy at the end of last season, “Well I think at first base you have to be honest with yourself and say look, I’m not sure we have learned everything that we need to about those two guys, but ultimately you have to make a decision, and sometimes you don’t have full information when you do.” I guess you don’t really have to make a decision.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    ike is gonna hit .240, with 25 HR and 79 RBI…

    and somehow folks will still complain…

  • Opti-Mets-tic

    +1

  • Hodges14

    Decisions are hard. Procrastination is easy.

  • mets4lyfe

    Duda was on pace last year to hit 20+ HRs in 500 at-bats in 2013 and 20 HRs the year before. Why don’t the Mets just let him play everyday at 1B for an entire season?

    Looking at the present and future, I believe Duda has a good chance to be a very good offensive player compared to Ike Davis, who I think isn’t a Major League hitter at this point.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Yes I agree. There is a difference in Ike at the plate yet so many are still hammering him. Hey, give me a break. The guy realizes his career is on the line and he did something about it. Will it translate on the field? Time will tell. But his approach is much better and he is “quieter” at the plate. There is no reason why Ike cant come back and perform as he did in the past.

  • kw_all

    this is a dumb idea and a waste of a roster spot. choose one, send the other to AAA .. why is this so hard?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    “…they have seen enough power from Davis and Duda that they do not want to surrender them, see them flourish elsewhere and have nothing to show for it.”

    Sounds like fear to me. But really it was the value of Ike and Duda holding them back.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    he did something about it in vegas.

    not sure what exactly but something clicked for him up there.

  • lareplus

    I like it. Opposing pitchers will have that much more to worry about. Will they face Dxxx or will they face Dxxxx. That’s got to be unnerving! Did Sandy work in PsyOps in the Marines? : )

  • depressed Mets fan

    Just last week Sandy said they didn’t want to move one that would lead to forever implications… Sounds like fear to me. 1B has been a problem the past two seasons with the same two guys, what a horrible horrible job by the most overrated GM in baseball.

  • dealingwithidiots

    I agree – I think he’ll be much better, but he’s not an average guy. I have more confidence in him than Duda plus he’s a better defender.

  • guy2theLET

    Its kinda like having 2 dates on the same night…it may be painfuly funny to watch at first but it never works out. Make one of them a mix cd, and let go!

  • lareplus

    I’d give Eric Campbell a shot at it. . .he hasn’t blown it yet. Then we could platoon Satin/Davis, Satin/Duda and Campbell/Davis and Campbell/Duda! lol. . .

  • keith22

    If anyone paid me 118 mil to do something I love, I dont think I would be walking around bad mouthing them. Liked him as a member of the Mets, but think he has to let go of the hostility.

  • igotadose

    Not fear. lack of ability all around: Duda, Davis and the FO. Could Nelson Cruz have been worse? Morales?

  • Just_Da_damaja

    in 21 games he had 7 singles, 7 doubles, 7 HR and 17 BB’s

    up to that point, he had 3 2B, 5HR and 19 BB’s in the entire MLB season ( 57 games )

    then when he came back from AAA

    he continued to show great patience.

    his walks did not come from guessing or a poor strategy ( ala Duda ) but rather from pitch recognition and a better strategy.

  • mets4lyfe

    Ike changes his stance every at-bat. That might be the reason why he looks ‘different’ at the plate this year.

  • SinHalo27

    Move Murph to 1st, Flores at 2nd: problems solved. Murphy has outperformed D+D the last few yrs- that is a known quantity. If by some chance Flores doesn’t knock-in at least 80+ runs (all he’s been doing the last 3 yrs) there’s EYJr for 2nd. Keep Duda for bench pop, trade Ike to an AL club where he cannot hurt NYM. Now that’s a win-win situation. 30 HRs in Baltimore or Texas do not necessarily equate to 30 HRs in Citi field. Let’s pick a direction and follow it- not try to go in 3 diff directions at once! LGM

  • Opti-Mets-tic

    Scott Boras didn’t pay Carlos Beltran $118 million. He’s just a greedy agent, that sued Beltran for a contract with the Cards, that Boras didn’t even negotiate.

  • BronxMets

    Love that

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Putting 80 RBI or more on Flores is ridiculous and unfair. “All he’s been doing the last three years”? Yea, in the minor leagues. David Wright can barely drive in 80 from the 3 hole. How in the world is Flores going to best Wright?

    By some chance he doesn’t? I like Flores too but it’s a certainty he wouldn’t drive in 80 or more runs in this lineup.

  • Flatbush0460

    Given 150 games I wholeheartedly disagree

  • Captain America

    Morales is the guy. Go get him

  • Flatbush0460

    Not for nothing but Abreu is hitting. 283 with 3 HR and 12 RBI this spring.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    In the last five years, Wright has only eclipsed 80 RBI twice. In this lineup, I don’t see how Flores would do it.

  • DrDooby

    Considering that the Mets already have 4 outfielders who project to be average or well above average defenders, the need for a 5th outfielder is rather small. As it is, the current foursome should suffice on most occasions.

    What the Mets needed was a replacement LHH bat off the bench, a role mostly occupied by Jordany Valdespin and Mike Baxter last year. And I don´t think facing Omar Quintanilla (who probably is the other LH bench bat) would be a problem for opposing pitchers. While neither Ike nor Duda is a very tough out, at least both have massive power that might scare opposing relievers in big spots. You don´t want to hang a curve or mis-place a fastball in a key spot vs. such a bat with plus power.

    So basically, the non-starter of Ike / Duda for now blocks Kirk Nieuwenhuis or Matt den Dekker from being on the roster in that role.

    As it is, the Mets are able to give a “quick hook” to the LHH 1b starter if he doesn´t hit.

  • DrDooby

    That´s probably Plan C in case neither Ike nor Duda gets off to a good start and approaches at least their career average. And I´m pretty sure that the Mets won´t wait too long and certainly not into June.

  • BehindTheBag

    Yeah, but who wants to pay for a player in his prime?

  • DrDooby

    There is a fine line between fear and common sense.

    If someone offered a solid return for either Ike or Duda, I´m pretty sure they´d be gone. If nobody offers anything substantial, you might as well keep both and keep your fingers crossed. It´s not as if the Mets currently have far better options beyond making Wilmer Flores a fulltime player now & not later this summer.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Abreu wasn’t coming to an NL team. Not with his defense. Needs the DH option.

  • SinHalo27

    Expectations- as with any blue chip prospect. While past performance is not always indicative of future yield (as they say) there is nothing to detract from that expectation. When he was called-up all he did was drive in runs left & right until the ankle injury. As far as Wright goes- I’d like to see him go 150 games since every year he does he has driven in 93 or more. Unless blocked by a perennial All-Star, the same prospect in anyone else’s system would be starting.

  • BehindTheBag

    He was going to go to the team that paid him the most money. He may end up a full time DH in a few years. But for the next few, I think he’s going to produce very well.

  • Charley’s Twin

    and certainly much better than the garbage we currently “boast”

  • muskytoes

    The only Abreu the Mets have the hots for is Bobby, and good news, he’s just been released by the Phils.

  • oleosmirf

    Well you have to figure Brown will go down when Niese is activated and then Kirk will be promoted when a final decision is made at 1B.

    Given Duda can play the OF if needed and EY is a SH, I don’t think not having a designated LH bat of the bench in April is a big deal.

  • Endy10

    how about jose abreu? remember when everyone wanted him, but 6 yr and 11m was too much? even though drew for 12m seems fair for some reason.

    it’s water under the bridge at this point, but it makes you think what the mets could look like right now

  • oleosmirf

    Let’s see how he does when every pitcher he faces is ML caliber. Not saying he won’t still hit, but its way too early to make a call on him.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    i think you are referring to Carlos answering the reporter’s question on how he was treated by the wilpons.

    When you bottle something inside for so many years eventually it comes out.

    Mike Piazza was 10x worse in describing how the wilpons treated him during his time.

    He said Jeff Wilpon nearly wrecked his career by trying to force him to play in an exhibition game against his alma Michigan while he was rehabbing his injury in 2003.

    Jefff Wilpon actually put an EXHIBITION game above the highest paid player on our team when we had the highest payroll in baseball in 2003

    Then Mike said the Mets did not do enough to shield him from the media.

    Mets
    Report: Mike Piazza, Mets Are Not On The Best Of Terms
    March 4, 2013 4:12 PM
    Share on email 10
    Mike Piazza (Photo by Ezra Shaw/Getty Images)
    Mike Piazza (Photo by Ezra Shaw/Getty Images)
    Related Tags: Baseball Hall of Fame, Cooperstown, Jay Horwitz, Jeff Wilpon, Mike Piazza, New York Mets, Shea Stadium

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    NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) – Mike Piazza is one of the most — if not the most — beloved Mets in the history of the franchise.
    And yet, according to a report, there is some tension between the 12-time All-Star and the organization.
    Piazza was honored on the final day that Shea Stadium stood in 2008, but since then he hasn’t had much of an association with the franchise. His relationship has, in fact, “cooled some over time,” sources told David Lennon of Newsday.
    No Mets have worn Piazza’s No. 31 since the legendary catcher played his last game with New York in 2005, but the number has not been retired by the team.

    “….And Mets Chief Operating Officer Jeff Wilpon might not be so inclined to induct Piazza this year.

    In the book, Piazza accused Wilpon of encouraging him to play with an injury during a spring training contest because the game was sold out. He also surprisingly criticized Vice President of Media Relations Jay Horwitz for not protecting the players enough.

    “I felt he was more loyal to the writers and the broadcasters than he was to the players,” Piazza wrote in regard to Horwitz.

    There was some animosity before the book came out, too.”

    But with Mike, he’s telling the truth…

    With Carlos, he has “hostility”

    O by the way…

    Willie Randolph’s tell all book Rising Son was shelved b/c the wilpons invoked a clause they made him sign in 2007 to not speak anything negative about the team for x amount of years.

  • Macdaddy

    I really feel for Sandy as I am sure he would much prefer to work without such exacting limitations. As such, he is left to explain the multitude of reasons for why they do or don’t do things, while at the same time being the good company guy. I just don’t think the fans truly get or appreciate what he is doing…and how limited his options truly are.

    Based on these limitations (I used that word because I am just tired of saying payroll, economics, debt…and garbage like that…we all know the facts)…he is forced to walk a very, very fine line. Now one might ask what the heck are you talking about with this ‘fine line” nonsense and the challenges that he is dealing with…and those are fair questions. So let me frame it in this fashion…first, like it or not, but the business at hand is the entertainment business. Thus you are trying to convey to an audience that the show/product is worth buying. No easy task with that exercise. Secondly, you are taking orders not simply from the owners but all the creditors and shareholders…who obviously want you spend as little as you can but derive the highest potential success…again not an easy task (as the expression goes it takes money to make money). You then have to craft/create an image…that not only sells to the parties I just named but to all of the people who make up the organization…with the most critical group being the players themselves.

    This is the true tough sell because you can’t do an al la Rex Ryan and promise the moon and stars and deliver something quite short of that (remember he’s not the coach he’s the GM). You are balancing the desire to improve the team, which will obviously entail trades, such things will then become public knowledge, which then means that the rumor mill will start and then all the good, bad and ugly of that player and the organization are put on the table to be discussed ad nauseam (such has been the case for Davis, Duda, Tejada), you then have to keep these guys motivated and make sure that your coaching staff is doing and say the right things…you have to also be sure that the players don’t start chirping about the situation…and you have to do all of this with a straight face and a level of honesty that keeps everyone who is hearing the message on an even keel. Yes we can call this a business…everyone knows that…but the human element is always present. And when things have been bad for awhile…well the work it takes to do all the things I noted (plus many other things) is no easy job.

    Beyond those points…any person who has played a sport at a high level realizes that egos are always involved. Oddly enough the higher one climbs the ranks the more that ego comes into play and must be managed by the players and the coaches. Baseball is one of those unique activities that plays out over a 162 game season and is always measured by it’s futility, which ultimately establishes a baseline of what success is or what success needs to be…and everything is series of isolated moments (AB’s, fielding, pitching). When it is going well…it looks simple…things click…life is good. When it goes bad…well…we all know what that looks like. It is because of this that the ability to change a course is not as easy as everyone thinks nor is it assured that even with change or a renewed vigor on the part of all the participants that a positive outcome will result. It is and should always be viewed as a process and sustained success requires a commitment to the process a willingness to stick to the plan and an ability to manage the ego.

    The ultimate objective is to develop consistency whereby that consistency enables you eliminate the highs and lows…yes highs and lows…and here is why I say that. First if .500 is your baseline then it is vastly easier to find a few key elements to take you to .600 or .700 than it is to be a worse to first model. Thus you need to build that stable base and to do such it has to be a ground up approach (meaning farm system up). This is about building culture and attitude, and winning at the lower levels is integral to that process…it is why an organization like the Braves that was for decades considered the joke of the league…as in…come to Atlanta, get a big contract and retire…was the mantra. Their system had to change…and it is truly guys like a Stan Kasten (and now maybe Sandy) who realize that you have much better odds to win in Rookie, A, AA, AAA levels then you do if you focus on just the parent club. Realize these affiliations are businesses too and thus if you have success there…you will eventually have success at the parent club level…and case in point…the Braves had 14 NLE titles in a row. They changed the culture and the approach…and it took 5 to 7 years to make that reality happen.

    It’s a process…it may suck…everyone may doubt or trust the Wilpon’s…but they truly have no other options at this point than to follow the process.

  • MetsFanSantaMonica

    It makes absolutely NO sense to carry both. Neither is a good bench piece. There is no reason to believe either would succeed in that role. They both can ONLY play one position and all it does is prevent a more versatile, and appropriate role player from serving on the bench – an Eric Campbell for instance who can play 4 positions and is a good OBP guy, or an actual 5th outfielder like Den Dekker or Capt Kirk. It’s a waste of a roster spot.

  • LOL I want to email Sandy your comment. 🙂

  • Matlack

    Why Kirk?

  • Macdaddy

    Oh so true…look at it like this. The ship sank, this is the group in the life raft and they need to work with who they have not who they want. It’s about survival…

  • oleosmirf

    I guess it could be den Dekker too, but I think Kirk is a better option off the bench which is what the replacement would be.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    He’s not good defensively. Maybe, maaaaaaybe serviceable to scouts. If we had signed him, you’d be bemoaning a lack of a DH pretty quick.

  • Dave_in_Spain

    Sandy created his own mess when he unnecessarily and gratuitously bad-mouthed his own players. It killed morale, reduced his negotiating position, and created a lose-lose situation. While I like much of what Sandy has done in rebuilding the minors and establishing a plan, he deserves to be slammed for this unfortunate habit.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Correct.

  • Matlack

    Abreu’s intriguing, for sure. Let’s see how he adjusts in the big leagues after pitchers inevitably adjust to him. But AAV for Drew would only be for 2 or 3 years, not 6.

  • Alex68

    ThatGuyWhoIsAlsoAScout

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    He should be starting, but the point is Flores will probably not have enough chances to drive in 80 because of the lineup he’ll be in and where they’d hit him in the lineup.

  • SinHalo27

    Perhaps in a line-up like this:
    1-2 Tejada/Murph (either guy/either spot)

    3 Wright
    4 Grandy
    5 CY
    6 Flores

    7 TDA

    8-9 Lagares/Pitcher (whatever TC’s flavor-o-the-day)

    or Tejada 8-9 and Flores 2.

    Benefits in 2 spot from doubles machine Murphy whom can steal and protection of Wright (protected by Grandy), or in the 6 spot benefits from an improved hitting CY in front of him, with speed. Converse- wait for the possibility of D+D doing something they are doing less and less of in recent years. Of course if CY K’s140+ and TDA falls flat then it’ll work less favorably but his hit tool merits this at the very least.

  • Matlack

    Oh, okay. Same thought process; I guess I just like MdD a lot more than Kirk.

  • RyanF55

    Honestly, can anyone argue in favor bringing up BOTH Davis and Duda? I stand by stating that this is a complete failure of the front office. If both Davis and Duda both make the big league roster, both lefties and not even able to platoon, its a detriment to the team. The FO failed to select a candidate, and will bring up 3 1st baseman. I don’t see Davis or Duda as viable bats off the bench, and they are obviously limited in terms of serving as any form of utility player, limited defensively to one position. The Mets can’t make up their minds, so they bring up both, shorting another player from a shot at the club. So many guys have outperformed both players this Spring and are more deserving.

    What argument can be made in favor of bringing them both up? Am I missing something here? Letting the competition extend into the regular season, where games matter, was not supposed to be the case…

  • Hodges14

    Aren’t agents supposed to be greedy by nature? Isn’t it their job to get the best deal possible for their client?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Haha. I’m sorry. This coming from the guy labeling Checchini a “bust.” What team do you scout for again?

  • Hodges14

    Wait… is this a new comment or was this posted in March 2013 and showed up here by accident?

  • Macdaddy

    I think the problem with this discussion is one simple fact…all the players have auditioned, no one really distinguished themselves, and thus every name provided is truly a bench player at best…yet everyone one is trying to find a starter amongst a bunch of role players.

    Lastly, Sandy tried to make a trade but no one was going to bite…he is limited with the payroll so he is trying to take the chicken “you know what” and turn it into chicken salad…

  • sperry

    Can’t wait to read this same exact article in spring training 2015

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Maybe. In an ideal world he’d hit enough to be in the six hole. I don’t know if Murphy is long for this team, so my guess is Flores would replace Murphy in the two hole if he left.

  • upandadam

    I agree with you, I don’t see why we don’t give Davis the shot first, give him 2 months and if he fails, Duda comes up. This makes no sense and we’re wasting a roster spot. Duda would only be a back up 1B, which isn’t needed when you have a platoon already OR a lefty bat off the bench. That’s all hes good for, why not put Den Dekker on the bench, he gives you a good bat, good speed, and a above average glove in the OF (Not that it’s needed but at least he has that).

  • sperry

    The real problem is that the FO is still acting like there’s a right choice between the two when the truth is neither is a real solution

  • Hodges14

    This is a pretty poorly constructed roster. In all likelihood the most productive first baseman on the team is the starting 2nd baseman.

    The big question is, aside from Murphy and Wright, will anyone on this team hit .250 or better in 2014?

  • Hodges14

    Why not give Duda the first shot? Davis has already failed multiple times.

  • RyanF55

    I’d prefer Duda at this point as well. Either way, pick a damn player and go with it. If he fails by May, swap him for the other. They failed to address the position both outside the organization, and now, within.

  • Endy10

    definitely understood. i just think that considering what we have at 1b, and considering how much the markets have blown up over the past few years, that he was a very worthwhile investment. There’s never any guarantees, but they were saying he was one of the best international hitters in a long time, and for a team with such a need, it seemed like a great fit. Yet here we are with ike and duda.

    I’m not totally down on ike yet, although i’m getting there, but i would have preferred an upgrade (or at least an attempt to move forward)

  • Captain America

    Tejada no
    Lagares no
    Young 1 no
    Young 2 no
    Grandy no
    D’arnaud ?
    Duda no
    Davis no

  • upandadam

    You know what hasn’t been talked about at all yet? What if Satin doesn’t hit at all? Does he get sent down and Flores come to platoon at 1B? He had less than 100 ABs against lefties last year but he seems to have been given the benefit of the doubt.

  • RyanF55

    There’s no logical argument for both. They can’t platoon, and neither can play any other position on the field. If the FO dares to pitch Duda as an OF replacement, with EY and Lagares filling out 3-4th outfielders, I’ll vomit. There is just no reason, what so ever, that both should be on the 25 man.

  • trevordunn

    the schedule is BRUTAL for April…with SS and 1B still a mess and TC the clown making LF a mess, and Dice K as the 5th starter and the bullpen in shambles….they will be buried by May 1st, stadium will be empty and once again they will be the clowns of MLB….way to go Freddie and jeff, the collapse of the organization continues

  • trevordunn

    Duda looked great in September last year. what did he hit, .150 with 4 rbi for the month?

  • trevordunn

    when other GMs are busy making moves, is Sandy off on a golf course somewhere? its inconceivable that he shows up to start the season with the same disaster at SS and 1b. He proved how worthless he is as a GM this past offseason

  • upandadam

    Honestly, they’re interchangeable. If you swapped Davis’ name with Duda’s name with my comment, I still have have said the exact same thing. My main point was that there’s no reason to have both. If duda gets the first shot then Davis shouldn’t be with the club since all he would be is a left handed pinch hitter. I just prefer Davis for the sole reason that Duda has publicly stated he gets anxious with runners in scoring position (and it shows if you look at his average with RISP). I don’t like that one bit if he’s in a run producing spot in the order

  • trevordunn

    yea because we have gold a glover at 1b with duda

  • Macdaddy

    So Mrs. Lincoln aside from the shooting how did you like the play?

  • oleosmirf

    but are you willing to platoon him with Lagares, thereby putting Lagares on the bench most games, which you know will send the MMO community into hysteria.

  • Rocky Thompson

    Kirk hit .300 as a PH last season. Plus MDD has more upside and the Mets want him to get regular ABs.

  • somedude718

    I guess because he just has to be more effective against lefties than either Davis or Duda; which doesn’t seem a particularly tall order. Personally, I think he’ll excel in such a role: he won’t be overexposed starting around 40-50 games and I do think he’s a very good contact hitter. That’s belief, though, the sample size is too small to back that up.

  • Matlack

    Very reasonable. If our offensive production at 1B(a position you NEED offense from) was miserable, I’d have pursued him more aggressively, despite the risk of him becoming a DH during the tenor of the contract. I guess where we disagree is on Duda’s value. I see a guy who did very well vs. RHP last year, with an in-house, cheap complementary piece(Satin) to make up for his weakness, and I can live with that, since it allows us to spend scarce resources elsewhere. Therein lies the rub…..

    I’m generally OK with the job this FO has done(big picture organizationally, not just big club), but I think the next big test for them will be the acquisition of a stud everyday player, of the Profar/Cargo variety.

  • Matlack

    A great point, although I think it would hold more water if MdD were a bit younger. At a certain point on the age curve, they is what they is.

  • Lotus1209

    Hahahaha idk whether to laugh hysterically or to cry about it

  • Rocky Thompson

    I agree. However, MDD’s history is to struggle at a level before he takes off. He missed a lot of time last season with the wrist injury, so I think they want him to get the regular ABs for at least the first half of the season. But your point about age is a good one and I expect see him with the Mets in the second half of the year.

  • Matlack

    If they were each opposite-handed, I’d say yes to that platoon, but since they aren’t, I can’t say I’d favor it, since Lagares would only get 40-50 starts. Soft platoon, maybe, with MdD getting starts vs. ‘tough’ RHP, in addition to spot starts vs. same for CBY. the real conflict is with EYJ, since you can’t carry 2 OF with little pop(EYJ, JL).
    I will admit I think Kirk is done(enormous hole in swing, very overrated defense), and was hoping the Ms would have been snookered into falling in love with him in any deal.

  • Matlack

    Agreed.

  • Macdaddy

    Honestly…I don’t think this is going to be as cut and dry regarding Duda’s or Davis’s performance. I have the sense that they will do enough to provide hope and that will be far worse then if they just flat out failed. I think this will be combo that will bat around the .245 level…provide you around 35 to 38 HR’s and about 80’s RBI’s…the defense will be right around league average and each will have periods where you will think they turned the corner to then come crashing back to reality…and I would imagine that they will also have stretches were they will be God awful. I think it is also fair to say that one of them or both will have an injury and then it will be…stick a fork in them.

  • Matlack

    His high BABIP is a concern, and I agree with your point. I’d say if he doesn’t try to do too much, power-wise, he’ll suffice in that role. In a lineup full of swing and miss guys, a guy who puts the ball in play is helpful. I’d put him and Duda in the 2 hole personally, but TC is still figuring out this pitcher batting 8th thingy….only one innovation at a time.

  • The theme of many a speech to my kids. And from my parents to me. And my wife to me.

  • Macdaddy

    Get this…so I hand a jar of pine tar to TC and tell him that you can put it on bats to improve your grip. He was awe struck…it’s sitting on his desk and he an Hudgens are going to talk about it…things are really cooking in Flushing.

  • Endy10

    well i don’t necessarily agree that 1b NEEDS offense. If say the team had 3-4-5 hitters at C, SS, and LF for instance, i think we could live with a little less production, but I understand your point. I personally favor overall production from the team though instead of expecting certain numbers from positions. If d’arnaud has a break out year, then we can tolerate a little less from other positions for example. I’m not assuming this will happen, but i just don’t think that’s the best way of looking for production, but i digress.

    As for duda/ike, i’ve said it before: i think ike has a higher ceiling but a lower floor. he’s proven he can hit 30 hr, but he’s also proven he can stink so much he belongs in the minors. Duda has never wowed me, he just doesn’t seem to believe he can do it, so it’s hard for me to believe he can until he does you know? If you’re going for cost efficiency as the mets usuallly are, then duda may be your best bet. i just think abreu’s overall value would have topped either, and the excitement of a potential star like that would have skyrocketed attendance

    I’m honestly not a sandy hater, more of a wilpon/collins hater, but when sandy says that ss/1b are his 2 biggest holes, and then he bashes his players and does nothing to upgrade them, it concerns me about the job he’s doing.

    I agree on alderson’s next big step. i’m just not sure if he can properly negotiate a trade for a stud. he’s shown he can get prospects out of teams, but hopefully he’s just as good at getting studs for as few prospects, b/c he hasn’t made too many deals in that direction

  • Guest

    Maybe back in the late 90’s/early 2000’s pre-Moneyball I wasn’t as educated about baseball, but Bobby Valentine seemed to do a much better job than Terry, in terms of putting the best players on the field. Say what you want about Valentine’s personality and antics, but I don’t recall in the midst of the mixing and matching lineups that was necessary for some of those Mets teams, that too often Valentine wasn’t giving the team the best chance to win with the lineup he put on the field. To hear Terry Collins use the word “platoon” and EYJR and Lagares in the same sentence shows a disheartening level of ignorance on his part.

    Here’s what TC SHOULD be saying:
    “We’re gonna get EYJR at bats, and he’s an important part of our team, but Juan Lagares is our starting centerfielder and if he hits he’s gonna be in that spot for a long long time..and we have all the confidence in the world that Juan will do just that.”

  • Biggle Boy

    I don’t expect either one will be able to put up even decent numbers by playing just 1 out of every 3 games. Especially because they’ve said Duda will not get any time in LF. One of them will be sent down by May 1st and they’ll hope to trade him.

  • upandadam

    He definitely gets on base enough to be high in the lineup, but as long as his slugging is near .500 against lefties, he’ll probably be in a run producing role rather than a run scoring one.

  • somedude718

    I don’t have an argument for why it’s a GOOD thing, but the only explanation is that FO wanted to have a legitimate competition for 1B and fate conspired against them. The worst scenario for 1B played out this ST: both combatants were injured and didn’t get a chance to show anything. So now they have to hold this competition when games count. What else can you do? Send down Duda and show him the competition was a failed farce to just get Ike’s competitive juices flowing? Send down Davis and let him know we were done with him before the season began, and that we were willing to go with a 28-year-old who hasn’t accomplished anything in the big leagues, yet?

    It means we got a short bench until the LH platoon @ 1B gets hammered out; it sucks. But I’m not seeing a viable alternative. Hopefully, it’s short-term and we send down the loser of this competition to Vegas in short order and carry a fully-staffed bench.

  • Schnitzer’s Marble Rye

    I’m generally pro-SA, but he said that comment, not me. I say screengrab it and tweet it to him @MetsGM !

  • Pedro’s Rooster

    Agreed. You should cut your losses now, and just never post here again. No sense wasting your time on such a terrible team.

  • TPT

    Paul Goldschimidt, Prince Fielder,Adrian Gonzales, Freddie Freeman,Chris Davis,Joey Votto,Mark Texjiera Ryan Howard, Mark Trumbo,Albert Pujios,Mike Napoli,Allen Graig,Jose Abreu,…………….NOTHING ELSE NEEDS TO BE SAID

  • shouldaswung

    On here, the debate is always “who’s fault is it that the ship sunk?”. I agree with your assessment. We have to face reality.

    (it was the Wilpons fault)

  • Hotstreak

    New generation CORE whose cry was also: “Bad job by Alderson.”

  • TPT

    HAHAHAHA thats so funny dude love it

  • Matlack

    You’re right, in the sense, that, if you carry a plus offensive guy like Tulo at a premier defensive position, you can live with less at a non-premier position, and I should have stated that. But we don’t have a Tulo, or Piazza, or a healthy Kemp.

    I loved Ike when he came up. He looked like the real deal, but something has gone wrong with him. He used to hit with authority the other way. My humble layman’s view is that he tries to do 2 things: load, and move his hands into the hitting position. I think he can choose one, but not both. Then there are the attitude issues; I think his comments about NY fans booing him last year didn’t go unnoticed with the front office.

    Duda has a much nicer, consistent swing. I think the antipathy for him come from a fixation on stats like BA/RBI, and not less importantly, his appearance.

  • Opti-Mets-tic

    And yet, Boras sues all his clients, (not just Beltran) that seek different representation. Some greed is good for an agent, Boras takes it above and beyond.
    That is why he lost.

  • Longsuffering Joe

    How many major league teams would have the following:
    1) Valverde as a set up man with the chance to close if the closer is overworked;
    2) Tejada at shortstop;
    3) Duda and Davis both on the 25 man roster;
    4) an outfielder who led the league in assists in Triple A or on the bench;
    5) Lannon as a left specialist out of the bullpen;

    I can only think of one.

  • Everyone knows the great 3 headed 1b platoons of the past… What? No 3 way platoons? You have one LH, one RH and one middle handed or no handed, works perfectly when you face a pitcher with either 0 or 3 arms.

    This is a stupid idea doomed to failure for the three players and the team.

  • Chuck

    I for one am glad they did not operate from fear. Would you trade a ’68 Camaro SS that needs some body and engine work for a ’84 VW Golf? Of course not. Technically they might be both “worth the same” at that point in time, but which one has the potential to be worth a lot more? You either wait for a fair offer, or take the renovation project on yourself. And if that ’68 Camaro SS gets cleaned up and repainted and shined up, and you repair and tune the engine, it sure will look and ride nice in the antique car show parade. And get you a much better offer in the long run.

    Regarding Ike and the Dude, I’m not predicting anything here, but at least Ike has shown some serious power and hitting ability in the past. And maybe the winter camp has been a big boon to Duda. Time will tell. As the stock brokers tell us, buy low, sell high. If their market value was too low this winter, we hang on and see if it will go up this season. And either way, the plan as it was revealed was never to move both and see what they could get to replace them, but to move one and go on with the other. And sometimes the best move you can make is not to make a move.

    And there we go … that’s enough analogies and cliches and aphorisms for the day … LOL. LGM!

  • Chuck

    Better let Carlton Krinkle know about that one …

  • TPT

    let me guess? it starts with a M ends with a S and has a ET in the middle? I AGREE WITH EVERY THING YOU WROTE

  • depressed Mets fan

    Do the Sandy apologist need any more proof that Sandy is the most overrated gm in baseball.

  • shouldaswung

    Haha…and Duda would be the type of girl with two left feet and a penchant for knocking drinks over and burning a hole in your upholstery. Ike would be a really whiny rhymes-with-witch who resembles Springsteen and makes boners impossible..

    But hey, if you were as poor and boring as the Wilpons in that scenario, could you really be choosy?

  • SteveMiller

    Hey it could be worse. At least we aren’t paying Ryan Howard $25M to play 1B when he’s healthy. They would love to have our problem.

  • TPT

    or it could a lot better like paying 1/3 of what we pay IKE this yr for a Paul Goldschimdt

  • RS

    Mets will have an extended bench to start the season. Niese will be on DL (+1 bat) and they don’t have to call up Dice right away (possible +1 bat)

  • SteveMiller

    That’s true but that is a strange contract he signed. Looks like one of those back loaded football contract but of course his is guaranteed.

  • TPT

    at least they know whos playing first and dont have a bunch of questions like we do and yea that contract calls for 1.1 million this yr 3 million in 2015 and 5 million in 2016 and if he were on the Mets they’d prob flip him for yet more prospects before the bigger money kicks in on 2017 lol

  • MiqueMetsFan

    Well I think that Sandy has handled this situation fairly well. Both players haven’t produced a whole lot, albeit the regular season nor during spring training. Since their value has been so low it has been difficult to trade them. I’m glad Sandy didn’t just “give them away”. If he’s going to trade them then he MUST get something of equal o more value. I feel Sandy’s patience is one of his better assets. An asset that is needed when trying to rebuild a franchise that in the past has made quick, influenced by the media/NY market type decisions that have set the team back dramatically.

    This situation with Davis/Duda will “evolve”. I just hope it doesn’t take all season long. I hope that at some point during the season we will know who should go, and who should stay. Hopefully whoever gets traded will bring us back a better player.

  • TPT

    how? when the guy cant stay healthy? not physically or mentally

  • somedude718

    True, though I’m sure this will bite us at some point. I can’t imagine it will be all figured out in the first week.

  • TPT

    hahahaha most REAL GMS GO OUT AND A GET A FIRST MAN its what their paid to do its called building a winner and increasing attendance not sitting on your a** with your fingers crossed

  • MDonaldWilpon

    What’s better than Rob Deer? Two Rob Deers

  • RyanF55

    That’s a good point I forgot that Niese will start on the DL…but that’s only supposed to last until April 6th. I doubt they send down one of Duda and or Davis to bring up Niese.

  • MDonaldWilpon

    I can’t remember a late March where I do not have the slightest expectation of success and worse, am really completely apathetic about the upcoming season.

  • MDonaldWilpon

    What is it about “THERE IS NO MONEY TO BE SPENT” don’t many of you understand?

  • TPT

    no what its about is a GM with a brain …like you dont spend 7.5 million when your BROKE to add a 4th outfielder that will only cut into our best young outfielders’ playing time not to mention maybe being the best fielding centerfielder( lagares) in the N.L. our outfield is and wasnt as big as a concern and need than a SS or 1B and thats what many of us do understand

  • Andrew Herbst

    This idea that we have Duda and Ike on the roster is crazy. And what will happen if Satin gets hurt or struggles?

  • upandadam

    Must be getting old, obviously can’t remember last march, huh?

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    Lolol

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    They also have ruff for when joward gets hurt

  • MetsfanInParadise

    I have no problem with the fact that both are still in the organization. But the only way either one is going to develop any value, to this team or any other, is by putting up some numbers. And that means both playing regularly. This splitting the difference crap is only hurting the team. They should have sent one, probably Duda, to Vegas, and told him, “go hit 20 HRs and develop some trade value, so we can send you to an AL team and get something worthwhile in return.” That would make everyone happy. But that’s just too much common sense for this team.

  • Anthony

    I can’t wait to see Duda come off the bench to pinch hit late in the game. He is so clutch in those situations

  • omar minayass

    these guys are complete jackasses. i’m talking about davis/duda. i’m talking about john ricco. i’m talking about sandy alderson. i’m talking about anyone who gets a paycheck from this god damned organization.

    A BUNCH OF F’ING CLOWNS, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

  • It’s hard to believe that both Duda & Davis will be on the Opening Day roster. Both? Wow.

  • wwdwd

    Please its time to really consider allen dykstra he may not be amazing top prospect but damn he’s over 25 nd he cnt be worse then davis who cnt hit at all and duda wen he does finally hit hrs its only going to b a solo shoot so even if duda has 25 hrs he’s going to only have 55 rbis at best

  • blaiseda

    Ca weall stop haranging the frot office for shopping the player publicly? it’s eveyone on this site and elsewhere that screamed they should be traded and talked about it all the time. The supposed fans were public about it. The front office responded to questions truthfully.

  • Destry

    If Dykstra hits 12 HRs, you are assuming they will all be 3 run HRs……I guess? Duda’s solo HRs vs HRs with men on base was slightly below league average last year, and slightly above average for his career. The solo HR thing is the dumbest bash on anyone I’ve ever heard. I guess it would be better that we don’t hit any HRs at all than it be a solo shot, right?

  • Destry

    Ruf is on the DL for 6-8 weeks

  • Destry

    Valverde was the closer for a portion of the season in 2013 for the AL champion Detroit Tigers

  • Destry

    So you would’ve signed Pujols to a 10 year $300 million deal? Fielder to a 10 year $225? Howard worth $25 mil/season? Teixeira hasn’t played in 2 years and makes $20+. Your team would be in shambles. I wish we would’ve developed Votto, Chris Davis, Freeman or or Craig, but all the other are way way overpaid.

  • Destry

    They are setting both players up for failure.

  • VfJ

    I’m good with it…sandy doesn’t give it away…first guy that hits and gets a good bid goes…

  • mets4lyfe

    it’s simple, give Duda the job. Personally, I’ve grown tired of the Mets giving Ike Davis ultimatums. Either you stick with him until the ASB or send him down/trade him. None of this ‘you have a month you get it together’ because it’s really not helping him at all nor will it help the Mets offense.

    Plus, I’m tired of watching Ike Davis and his abomination of a swing.

  • VfJ

    It just gets old when your accomplishments are everything you didn’t do…