Chris Young Presents Quite the Paradox

The New York Mets haven’t even seen a pitch yet this spring, but it’s not too early to notice how outfielder Chris Young has muddled things.

And, it goes beyond the $7.25 million they’ll pay this year for the player who hit .200 last season with 12 homers and 93 strikeouts. Young’s 162-game averages are .235 with 24 homers and 148 strikeouts, so the Mets aren’t exactly renting a light’s out slugger.

YOUNG: What kind of Impact?

The Mets must play Young because of his contract, but doing so creates several obstacles and dilemmas for manager Terry Collins.

With Young and Curtis Granderson taking up two-thirds of the outfield, that leaves a decision between Eric Young and Juan Lagares for the remaining spot.

If Collins chooses Lagares to play center, it leaves him without a viable leadoff hitter. Lagares has the speed, but strikes out too much to be a top-of-the-order hitter, although he’s young and can improve.

Daniel Murphy and Ruben Tejada have been mentioned, but neither is a great choice. Murphy should hit lower in the order because he’s a gap hitter able to drive in runs. Tejada is coming off a bad year and doesn’t have a good on-base percentage either.

Chris Young can’t lead off because he strikes out too much. Granderson can’t do it either because he also strikes out a ton and must hit fourth anyway to protect David Wright.

But, if Collins chooses Eric Young to hit leadoff and presumably play center, it relegates Lagares to the bench. Or based on what Collins has been strongly suggesting lately, it’s more likely they send Lagares to the minors instead to get him more at-bats. Never mind all the runs he saved with his glove and his arm and the excitement he brought to the team when he finally took over in center.

So, in essence the Mets are paying $7.25 million for a player that would likely delay the development of Lagares for another season.

The Mets are also contemplating keeping both Ike Davis and Lucas Duda on the Opening Day roster, with the intent of giving the latter some time in left field. But, how often will he play if Chris Young is here? And does Keeping both now squeeze out another young player in Wilmer Flores?

The Mets say they are building for the future, but Chris Young doesn’t contribute to that aim because he’s gone after this season. Either he doesn’t produce and they won’t bring him back, or he’ll hit and go elsewhere because the Mets won’t want to pay what he’s asking.

So, if the Mets’ timetable isn’t to win this year, why pay all that money for a rental?

About John Delcos 575 Articles
I am an active member of the BBWAA and have covered Major League Baseball in several capacities for over 30 years, including 18 in New York working the Mets' and Yankees' beat. I also covered the Baltimore Orioles and the Cleveland Indians before that. Today I am a freelance writer and social director for several media outlets and a Senior Editor for Metsmerized Online.
  • Benny

    “Tejada is coming off a bad year and doesn’t have a good on-base percentage either.”

    Tejada has a career OBP of .323, while EYJ has a career OBP of .325. If you don’t include Tejada’s miserable year last year, he has a .333 lifetime OBP.

    “But, if Collins chooses Eric Young to hit leadoff and presumably play center, it relegates Lagares to the bench. ”

    EYJ is definitely not a candidate to play CF, C. Young would be relegated to CF duties if Collins chooses to not play Lagares.

  • CJM

    Hmmm, I have a lot to dispute with this article. First and foremost, if CY hits, expect him to 100% be traded mid-season, unless of course the Mets are miraculously in a pennant race. Next, Murphy is definitely a viable lead off option against right handed pitchers. A gap hitter leading off? Sounds like a good thing. If Young has a bounce back year, he can lead off against lefties–.363 career OBP against lefties. Nothing wrong with having power leading off. If Lagares wins the job in center field, EYJ will be on the bench, which is actually where he is most valuable–bench guy with speed who can spell in the outfield and 2b. Finally, if Lagares goes to AAA that doesn’t necessarily hinder his development; the same goes for Wilmer Flores.

  • Alex68

    So, if the Mets’ timetable isn’t to win this year, why pay all that money for a rental?”

    But according to many people (SL), 2014 was the year for the mets to content. even alderson said himself that the injury to Harvey won’t change their punting plans.. aparently signing Colon and CY said otherwise… now, the timetable has been moved yet again to 2015…
    Now, CY might provide us with 20+ HR, dbls, SB and could drive in 70+ runs, that’s the upside of his deal, the downside? well, basically what he was last year for Oakland and as you said, he’ll likely put the development of lagares on hold for no reason….

  • CJM

    The upside to the deal is if CY has a bounce back year the Mets can trade him mid-season, like they did with Byrd. Or if they don’t find a good trade, they can offer a QO and potentially get a draft pick for him.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    There’s no easy way to solve the issue, granted the Mets put themselves in this situation. They’re going to have another year with a rotating cast of characters leading off (10 different guys last season) because nobody is good enough to hold it down on their own.

  • Benny

    Against RHP:

    2B Murphy
    SS Tejada
    3B Wright
    LF Granderson
    RF Young
    C d’Arnaud
    1B Ike/Duda
    CF Lagares
    P

    Against LHP:

    RF Young
    2B Murphy
    3B Wright
    LF Granderson
    C d’Arnaud
    1B Ike/Duda
    SS Tejada
    CF Lagares
    P

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Not sure how Colon and CY are punts (not signing anyone would have been a punt).

  • CJM

    If everything breaks right for the Mets, both are formidable lineups. Also, my hope is that TdA can develop into a solid 2-hitter which would lengthen their lineup.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    If Ike/Duda are batting 8th or 7th, they’re doomed.

  • WilponsStinkLessNow

    It’s a good thing they had a solid plan in place to replace Reyes at the top of the order when they let him walk. Way to think ahead…

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Yeah. They should have known Tejada would have a bad 2013. Idiots.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    If Lagares were on the Braves, they would have signed him to a five-year deal by now.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    “So, if the Mets’ timetable isn’t to win this year, why pay all that money for a rental?” BINGO

  • LongTimeFan1

    John Delcos –

    Chris Young hasn’t muddled anything. His athleticism, speed, fine defense and proven power from the right side, makes the team stronger despite his flaws. His proven power and power threat in particular is needed in the middle of the order.

    And how many articles does this website need to post about the same darn thing – outfield construction?

  • BigAl831

    Without a typical leadoff hitter, I’d say give your best hitters the most at bats.

    Against RHP Murph, Granderson, Wright, Duda/Ike (eek)

    Against LHP Young, Murphy, Wright, Granderson

  • CJM

    And both Murphy and Young can be fine lead off hitters. Power in the lead off slot is a nice amenity.

  • Martin

    Because he will platoon.

  • CJM

    If he plays well they trade him or offer a QO. Not a hard concept to grasp.

  • Reid

    it’s better than Byrd, Cowgill, Duda problem we had last year….at least Byrd worked out.

  • LongTimeFan1

    And if you don’t include 2013, EY has big league .339 OBP and 62 steals in 675 PA’s.

  • Martin

    No, they are not that self destructive.

  • CJM

    I don’t understand why people are looking at this year’s outfield situation as a problem at all. The outfield is where they are strongest. SS and 1B are the two big potential pitfalls.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    if he doesnt play well, he sits the bench for 7.5 mil or is taking away PT from our young CF

    from a long term perspective its not a good look

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    They seem comfortable going to WAR with Andrelton Simmons at SS.

  • CJM

    He will play well. Bookmark this and we’ll talk in July. CY was a good signing: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mets-land-bargain-in-chris-young/

  • Martin

    Lagares is a single a talent and will not play regularly.

  • WillisReid

    A lot of Lagares’ value is based on his defense right now. Young is no slouch in CF either. This isn’t that difficult, if CYoung is the Young of old he’s an upgrade over Lagares for 2014. If he’s not, it’s a non issue other than the $7MM they wasted.

  • CJM

    Huh? Dead wrong. Defense alone makes him a viable starter in a strong lineup.

  • Benny

    If you don’t include his 2013 season, which is his only season as a FT player, then he is a good bench piece, as I have stated many times.

    Thank you for reinforcing my idea…

  • BigAl831

    It’s funny how many people feel the Mets can’t win without speed at the top of the lineup. I’d even give Duda a try if Murph fails.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Last year it was “what outfield?” Now the outfield is a huge problem? Man. Just can’t win I guess.

  • Benny

    LMFAO @ “single a talent!!!”

    Someone take this guys commenting privileges away, he is making everyone else dumb by having to read his nonsense.

  • Martin

    Defense alone? So you would play him if he had an obp of 000? On “defense alone”

  • CJM

    Some people place exaggerated value on the SB but it’s not super important. Plus both Murphy and CY have the ability to swipe a bag (though Murph will likely regress from a nearly flawless base stealing season).

  • LongTimeFan1

    Power in the lead spot is a waste, especially in the NL when better served in heart of order with the greater likelihood of runners on.

  • BigAl831

    …..Do you watch baseball?

  • Martin

    That is not an argument.

  • Benny

    “So you would play him if he had an obp of 000?”

    but he doesn’t…

  • WillisReid

    Be miserable or be ridiculed. New forum, same result.

  • CJM

    Power in any slot is never a waste. Misguided opinion.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    The fact that we’re still talking about this is exhausting. Can we at least let even one of the guys mentioned in this article have an AB before we start labeling who can or can’t play in the OF/lead off?

  • Benny

    That’s the point! How can you argue with dumb?

  • Martin

    I am not the topic. There is no level of defense that can justify an obp significantly under 300. It’s just too many outs, it kills the offense. Notice how I made a point about baseball, while you are talking about me.

  • Alex68

    LF and CF? yes it is a problem.. we have a guy who can’t hit but has some speed and another one we sign “hoping” he can revert back to 2008 while we have Lagares, a young prospect who is just a spider out in CF most likely to ride the pine… thoughts?

  • CJM

    Yeah, talk about hyperbole. Lagares is capable enough to hit in the 8th slot if his defense is as good as it was last year. 3+ WAR on defense alone, and he plays one of the most important positions. The Mets were quite good in ’99 with Ordonez playing an incredible shortstop but hitting like a little leaguer.

  • Martin

    You are not discussing baseball. Let me know if would like to discuss baseball. I am telling you that a player making outs at lagares rate cannot play, or the offense will be ruined.

  • BigAl831

    Murph had a freak season on the bases but hey…He and Wright are similar speed wise so maybe he can be Wright like on the bases.

  • Benny

    The guy has under 400 at bats in his Major League career, calm down!

  • Martin

    The hyperbole is yours. Again I ask, would he play on your team with a strikeout in every single at bat?

  • KMO82

    Its obvious the hope is that they will be able to trade him during the season, like they did Byrd and get some prospects. If that happens they pay 3-4M to add a few prospects, I’ll take it. Hopefully Puello tears it up in Vegas as well and the Mets can trade Young for something decent and then see what they have in Puello.

  • chago

    Baseball Prospectus (subscription required):

    “Hard cheeses have better shots against graters than Young does against right-handed pitchers, and it’s fair to wonder whether a player with less cachet would be labeled as an extra outfielder by now.”

    “Even when Young posted big numbers in his rookie season (32 home runs and 27 stolen bases), he still had an fWAR of just 0.5. His fWAR increased to 2.3 in 2008 before declining again to 0.2 in 2009.”

    “In 2010, Young’s career trend shifted drastically again, as he posted fWARs of 4.1 and 4.5 in 2010 and 2011, respectively. In 2012, he declined again to a 2.5 fWAR and once again last season to a 0.5 fWAR.”

    Glorified Platoon Player

  • Benny

    You called him a “single a talent,” go sit down in the corner and let the grown folks talk.

  • CJM

    Obviously not–that was your hyperbole. He is not gonna have a .000 OBP.

  • WillisReid

    Or revert back to 2011 form. But children do prefer make believe.

  • BigAl831

    Who exactly would you like him to be platooned with?

    His defense makes this team better, even against RHPs.

  • Martin

    He said “defense alone” that means defense alone. No offense. I am asking if he means that or is there a level at which he hurts the offense too much. I am alleging that 300 obp is a minimum requirement, especially for non catchers.

  • trevordunn

    glorified platoon player? ON THE METS?!?!?!?!?!?!? NEVER…….He fits right in on a whole damn team filled with glorified platoon scrubs (Tejada, Ike, Duda, EY, Lagares)

  • LongTimeFan1

    There’s nothing exaggerated about the value of the stolen base and its threat from a bona fide base stealer who can readily turn a single or a walk into additional bases and totally disrupt the opposition, force them into rushing and mistakes.

  • chago

    Yeah but the ones you mention cost a fraction of what CY does.

  • Martin

    The hyperbole was not mine. The word “alone” means to the exlusion of everything else, meaning offense. That’s what it means to say he deserves to play on defense alone, which i didn’t say. The hyperbole, it is not mine, please pay attention.

  • CJM

    Actually there is exaggerated value on stolen bases. And the value gained from stolen bases at a good rate can be replaced easily by power in the lead off slot.

  • CJM

    Actually his level of offense in 2013 was implied in the comment. Not my fault your reading comp isn’t up to snuff.

  • Martin

    And they were terrible. Terrible performance does not indicate future success. If it did, you could start in center.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Chris Young doesnt take away from the young CF….it is Collins desire to get EY in there that does that.

    EY is not one of the top 3 OFs on that team. CY, Lagares, and Grandy are all better than him.

  • Eric Raffle

    For the idea of providing a Qualifying Offer to CY if they want a compensatory pick—– this year’s QO was set at 14.1 Million dollars. CY has a long way to go beofre being worth getting “stuck’ with that kind of money.

    If he hits, they might trade him—the compensatory pick via the QO is going to be restricted to very high value free agents

  • Martin

    That isn’t an argument.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Well, I might be one of the few people willing to wait until even one of the guys in this article have an AB before saying who should/should not play, but if you’re asking me…

    Granderson is locked in. The Mets have said Lagares will get first crack at CF once ST games start, so if he can hit, he’ll win the gig. The rest boils down to EY and CY, and the two can rotate based on who’s pitching.

    But again, all of this is muddled solely because nobody seems willing to just let these guys play games and they’d rather take every thing Collins says and run with it.

  • Alex68

    trevordunn & chago, Lmao, well… sandy lovers won’t like this.. once signed by sandy, CY became an all star who is gonna net us a top prospect come july…

  • Martin

    Right so by defense alone, you don’t mean defense alone. You mean the opposite, defense plus his previous level of offense. So explicitly not what you said. Repeat, exactly not what you said. Repeat. Not what you said.

  • chago

    I would never have signed a platoon player for 7.5 mil a year in the first place.

    Lagares defense is better than his he is much younger and under team control for another 5 years maybe just maybe we should let the kid play so he is ready to make major contributions by the time we are ready to contend again.

  • CJM

    lol ok. Funny how you’re the only one who doesn’t understand what was meant by “defense alone.” Did you skip English class a lot?

  • CJM

    And if Lagares falls flat? His defense regresses?

  • Alex68

    SOrry sandy lover…… i speak and always will speak the truth about your lord and savior…

  • Metsaholic

    Man, I can’t wait until games ST games start, so that we get a better idea of how this is all going to work. If for nothing else, we can talk about actual play.

  • Hodges14

    But his numbers are the perfect right handed bookend for Ike Davis from the left side hahaha. Every team needs 2 black holes in their lineup.

  • Pike Miazza

    Ike or Lucas will be gone before ST breaks….

  • Martin

    Defense alone means defense not alone, but with some level of implied but unstated offense, got it.

    What level of offense is unacceptable? 200 avg, 220 obp? In addition to the “defense alone”?

    By defense alone I mean your definition, or not defense alone.

  • CJM

    Hey man, I’m done with this convo.

  • chago

    Hey man I hope they are right , I just don’t see it though but i’m gonna keep my fingers crossed. I have similar hopes that it happens with our new rolly polly SP Colon . In my opinion those are the two best case scenarios for the both of them . Now the likely hood of them producing to a level that it will be a real possibility I just don’t see it in CY’s case although I think we might have a shot with the Rotund One if he stays healthy.

  • Benny

    I don’t think you know the meaning of terrible…

  • Hodges14

    2011 form? When he was playing in one of the best hitter’s parks in the league and posted a .751 OPS?

  • WillisReid

    Sandy lover? I change diapers on someone as mature as yourself.

  • Martin

    Right, let’s discuss baseball, not me.

    Would you play lagares if he made an out 80 percent of the time? Is there any level of offense that is too poor to play? You appear to be unable to answer any questions regarding the offensive competence required from a defense first player. Try to be an adult and address the question and not me.

  • WillisReid

    So you expect more than that from Lagares with the bat this year?

  • Hodges14

    There’s no way the Mets are going to offer CY a qualifying offer which will be over $14M.

  • Benny

    As long as he has a positive WAR…

  • LongTimeFan1

    Unless you have a team of high OBP, power types, top to bottom, it is a waste of limited assets better served when there are runners on rather than solo shots. We do not have that type of lineup – what we have is a lineup full of high K, low OBP, low BA players on a team that needs to make the most of hitting with runners on and runners in scoring position where one swing does damage amid all the whiffs.

    On this team, making the most of speed, stolen base capacity, taking extra bases and getting into scoring position for the players with power, is essential.

  • CJM

    If he produces a 5 WAR somehow? Sure they will. Plus, he’s more likely to be traded in season than make it to the end of the year with the Mets.

  • BronxMets

    Tejada doesn’t have a good OBP?????? last year yes but other years better then Reyes.

  • BronxMets

    Has to this is ludicrous……

  • Hodges14

    But EYjr posted OBP of .288 in August and .287 in September and people on here seem to think he’s a legit full time major league leadoff hitter.

  • CJM

    If the lead off hitter is not getting on base enough, putting power in that slot is a much better option than giving away free outs.

  • CJM

    Wrong. Reyes .342 career OBP and .353 career OBP after he learned to walk.

  • Hodges14

    But Benny… stolen bases are a great fantasy league stat. If EYjr is sitting the bench someone’s team (not the Mets) is going to suffer hahaha.

  • chago

    They can always play TC’s new BF EYJr there and a combo of Brown , Den Decker , Capt Kirk , Duda (LOL) and possibly Puello in LF and CF . Who knows maybe Vaughn , Taijeron or Cecciliani tear up AAA and get a shot also. And those 8 options even if they were ALL on the major league roster all year would not cost half as much as CY does !

    I’m pretty sure that at least one of them can post a 200 avg like CY did last year .

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    The Mets had 10 guys leadoff last year – most by any team since 2003.

    From ESPN- They were Young (90 games), Jordany Valdespin (16), Ruben Tejada(15), Collin Cowgill (nine), Mike Baxter (eight), Murphy (seven), Omar Quintanilla (seven), Lagares (six), Justin Turner (three) and Kirk Nieuwenhuis (one).

    Even with the role once again up in the air, it’s hard to believe whatever player or combination of players they use, they’ll be worse in 2014. Really need to just let this play out.

  • CJM

    EYJ cannot play center. He can barely play left.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Who’s on first?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    God yes please.

  • chago

    He was a finalist for a GG in LF last year . LMAO what a joke.

  • Benny

    That can be the only valid explanation in this guy’s case. He must be planning on having EYJ on his fantasy team…

  • Martin

    No player making outs at that rate should play.

  • Alex68

    Ohhh so you a nurse in a retirement home? good, good profession….

  • Hodges14

    For his career Young has a lower OPS than Stephen Drew. No one else is going to want him.

    Drew should never have declined his QO. If the Mets make a QO to CY he’s going to take it and the Mets are going to be stuck with him.

  • CJM

    Yeah, the GG awards are a joke.

  • Benny

    Rafael Palmeiro won a GG for 1B, from the DH position.

  • CJM

    If CY has a year that will justify a QO he will be offered a multi year deal elsewhere. Or, more likely, be dealt mid-season assuming the Mets aren’t in contention.

  • Benny

    You are old enough to be in a Retirement Home?

  • WillisReid

    Based on what I read from you, If you’re over 13 yrs old I’d be shocked. Unless you are over 13 and a high functioning handicapped individual, in which case keep up the good work here.

  • chago

    But you should have seen him in pregame infield practice he was slicker than snot over at that 1st base bag !

  • Alex68

    What’s the age set up? 55 no?

  • CJM

    What about him makes you think he’s high functioning in any sense? My sister with down syndrome is higher functioning.

  • Hodges14

    On a team with an $87M payroll spending $7.25M on Chris Young is nuts. He’s not going to make that much of a difference over Lagares.

    CY going to a contending big market team like the Yankees or Red Sox or Dodgers where they would play him sparingly would make sense. Depending on him to be an everyday player is nuts.

  • Benny

    Yes.

  • WillisReid

    You can’t just bang on a keyboard like an angry gorilla and make that many consecutive words accidentally.

  • LongTimeFan1

    It’s the job of the leadoff hitter to make sure he gets on base enough.

    And better it be a bona fide stolen base threat who can get himself to third base even through BB or single via stolen base ability. The trickle down is to the hitter getting more hittable pitches particularly fastballs while opening holes in the defense to defend against the steal.

  • sperry

    Because Young was a panic move in reaction to seeing the enormous contracts being doled out and the resulting fear that they’d lose out on everyone. Then when it became clear that Granderson was attainable, getting Young turned out to be a mistake.

  • Hodges14

    Have you seen the contract that Homer Bailey just got? I think Colon is a bargain in comparison. Even if he doesn’t match his 2013 numbers it’s not a long term commitment and it’s not a ton of money compared to the market.

  • Hodges14

    He has no arm at all. CF would be a disaster for EY

  • CJM

    And he cannot go back on balls to save his life. He’s very solid coming in, but a nightmare going back.

  • Hodges14

    Exactly. Two days after completely misreading the market on Peralta and seeing him sign with the Cardinals the Mets panicked and signed a guy no one else wanted.

  • Pike Miazza

    “His wife comes down & collects his check…”

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    If Lagares falls flat, CY is obviously the first choice to play CF. Heck, he could win it outright in ST.

  • chago

    Yeah that was strange because if Richie has a strong point it is his cool under pressure and his patience in negotiations to extract the most value from situations . But there is really no other explanation for this signing than a panic driven over reaction to a market they suddenly thought they might be priced out of.

  • CJM

    Yeah, but the problem is the Mets don’t have a guy who can get on base enough. His job is to get on base, but EYJ isn’t gonna get on enough. And if Murphy is batting second, he’ll be “leading off” a lot with 1 out.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Totally agree. The money some of these guys got is ridiculous. Many of them are worse than Colon, regardless of being younger.

  • WillisReid

    That’s all well and good, but the question still stands regarding Lagares.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I’d say every team in baseball misread the Peralta market.

  • HawkZon

    “So, in essence the Mets are paying $7.25 million for a player that would
    likely delay the development of Lagares for another season.”

    That’s the Met way…a*s backwards.

  • HawkZon

    ^^THIS^^

  • chago

    “Who’s on first?”

    Yo Mama , and I bet she out hits those two clowns also !

    Just funnin’ buddy no offense intended .

  • BigAl831

    The worst thing about reading this was seeing that Omar Q led off a game 7 times. That alone makes me dislike Collins just a bit more.

  • Hodges14

    Lagares is making major league minimum on a team that has shown no desire to win. There is zero downside to giving him a chance to improve. The team has already conceded the 2014 season.

  • Hodges14

    Not every GM in baseball stated that upgrading SS was the priority this off season.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Nobody was any good and with Tejada spitting the bit, somebody had to play.

    The problem is with player performance, not really Collins choices. If he could ever once write out a consistent lineup, everything would be fine. Instead you have under-performers, scrubs and AAAA players everywhere.

  • WillisReid

    So that’s a no on Lagares? I don’t really see how they’re punting after adding “talent” but that is a matter of opinion.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Doesn’t change the fact that nobody thought Peralta would get that money and it also doesn’t make him worth it.

  • LongTimeFan1

    Simmons is second year player who had 17 homers, 27 doubles and 6 triples in 2013 to complement stellar D.

    Also had .289 BA and .335 OBP in his first season and is very, very low strikeout guy – just 76 in 772 AB’s.

    Lagares has whiffed 96 times in 392 AB’s.

  • Hodges14

    They added Granderson and Colon. That’s a great start to an offseason. It’s not a great offseason on its own.

    If we are to believe that there really is a rebuilding plan going on then I would expect that Lagares and Flores would get a chance to prove themselves this year.

  • chago

    Yeah I am ok with the Rotund One in fact I am looking forward to seeing him pitch this season . Just cause I poke fun at his portly physique doesn’t mean I am against him . My big concern about him is that he stay healthy he has had quite a few nagging injuries the last few years that landed him on the DL a few different times .

    “Since Colon has gone on the DL for thigh, abdomen and groin issues over the last three years,”

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mets-sign-unreliable-workhorse-bartolo-colon/

  • Hodges14

    What’s more likely to happen to the Mets is he plays like $hyte and is injured at the trade deadline.

  • Hodges14

    Basically a direct contradiction to the so called “rebuilding plan”. We’re going with low cost youth but we won’t give them a chance to play because we’d rather go with retreads like Chris Young and Eric Young.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    And still managed to post a positive WAR. I’m just making a WAR point here and it was fairly tongue in cheek. No need to hit up Baseball Reference.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Without CY, what would the outfield look like this season on OD do you think?

  • Taskmaster4450

    I lean more towards Duda getting the nod over Davis.

    It seems the FO likes Duda better or is more disgusted with Davis.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    They’re both terrible. Should have traded one and put the other in AAA and signed Morales to a one-year deal with a mutual or club option.

  • Hodges14

    The fact that this was the guy the Mets were targeting and he signed for so much more than they would ever have payed does indicate that they misread the market.

  • WillisReid

    I think that part of the issue is that rebuilding is more of a fluid situation than most would like it to be. It’s not at all the Pirates all or nothing approach of waiting 20 years until you get the correct mix of 25 guys.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Yes, they did. But they’re not alone. It’s not some “only the Mets screwed up” situation.

  • WillisReid

    Makes sense, people with dementia are usually needlessly combative.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Well if one has a bounce back year, the Mets might have a productive 1B.

    I foresee Duda platooning with Satin. That affords them the best chance.

    Davis everyday 1B is brutal against lefties. Duda is a bit better but not by much. Satin hit lefties well so that might actually work out well.

  • phil m

    The issue could be solved with a simple admission. Hello we are the Mets and we are in love with our 2nd baseman when he should really be a bench player. That admission would solve many problems. Yes every Mets fan is going to throw out the “MURPHY?! He’s like our second best hitter!”, or “he’s a hard nosed player and we love them!”. To put it bluntly his hit is as good in some areas as it is awful in others. If you add in his sub par defense, he should be regulated to trade bait or to the bench as a utility guy.

    IF Collins has the balls to make that call, he could slide EY to 2nd (his natural position), where his defense would be better than Murphys, for a team that is built around pitching this should be key. If you add in the 40-50 SB’s that he can take and you want him as your lead off guy, this should be a no brainer. It allows Collins to keep Lagares in center where again with a pitching focused he should be playing. These moves would save FAR more runs than the “ehhh” offense that Murphy provides.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Even if he did that, why not move Murphy to 1B rather than take out his numbers altogether? Murphy is a top 5 2B in the NL no matter how you slice it.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Or just be rewarded with more of Collins’ stupidity.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    This is yet another year Collins is forced to juggle two poor first baseman.

    Something’s gotta give.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    In his defense, he hasn’t actually done anything stupid with the lineup…yet.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Not really. Look at all the guys who got QO this year and how many are still unsigned.

    Are those high value free agents?

    If Young has a good year, he will get a QO and turn it down. 25 HRs and 20 SBs at 30 years old gets him $50M+ in this market.

  • LongTimeFan1

    EY had bad OBP season, but has strong history of solid to high OBP. including.388 in his minor league career, .342 and .377 in the majors in 2011 and 2012. There’s no reason he can’t harness that capacity in 2014 and that’s his goal as it should be for every Mets fan. The negativity against this guy is stunning and has much to do with the Lagares crowd wanting him out of the lineup so Lagares will be in.

  • Taskmaster4450

    My concern is giving an almost 41 year old guy a two year contract.

  • chago

    When you state that your biggest off season priority is to upgrade SS and then target a player don’t you think that it is a MAJOR , MAJOR screw up to not have taken the time to explore the players available the likely suitors for them and come up with a reasonably close idea of what the market for said players is going to be?

    That is a Major League Screw Up !

    And I don’t care if 28 of the other teams screwed up as well , I am only concerned with one . And the number of teams that screwed up isn’t that many since there weren’t to many suitors for SS’s this year . Witness that Drew is still unsigned .

  • BronxMets

    oh you want to select the years……….Tejada blows him away early on………..wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • I said the same thing to John when he wrote this.

  • BigAl831

    I’m sorry but that’s no excuse for putting one of the worst hitters in the game in the leadoff spot.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    First off, Drew’s ridiculous contract demands have as much to do with him not be signed as anything else you can think of.

    Secondly, you honestly thought, coming of a PED suspension and the fact the he made just $16.75M over the previous three seasons total, Peralta would get that contract and so quickly?

    If so, you need to go buy a lottery ticket right now.

    Did the Mets screw up not signing Peralta? Yes, in the sense that they didn’t sign him. Did they screw up by not somehow thinking it would cost that much? I don’t think they did, but that’s just me.

  • chago

    You really think that a marginal player like CY is going to turn down 14 or 15 mil a year QO and risk having the same result Drew , Cruz , Morales and a few others have found this off season . Not to mention that CY isn’t in the same class as any of those guys to begin with . He would have to have an MVP quality season for him to turn down a QO and be able to cash it out in free agency.

  • phil m

    Cause first has to be a power position. Murphy hit 13 HR’s last year in well over 600 AB’s, if he breaks 10 again it will be luck. He had a 319 OBP hitting in front of Wright. The 92 R’s comes from solid production behind him and the RBI’s are more from guys getting on in front of him. He did hit close to 40 doubles two years in a row, but to me thats not enough to keep such poor defense up the middle when the team is so heavily invested in their pitching.

    He had 16 errors at second (18 in total with first), and those are balls was able to get to! His range reminds me of Mo Vaugh except without the flare. If you can get an extra out from a solid second baseman with range, that takes pressure of the pitchers ans with a staff the comprises the old, the injured and the young, that should be the focus

  • Hodges14

    First has to be a power position… but it wasn’t on the Mets last year and it wasn’t when they were winning with Keith Hernandez and John Olerud.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Why do that?

    WTH….there are people on here who know that guys who were drafted are already busts simply because Alderson selected them (forget the fact they arent old enough to drink).

    Besides, there would be no posts on here if people already didnt know who was going to succeed and fail.

  • Man talk about damned if you do damned if you don’t.
    So last year the Mets waited till just before camp and added Byrd and didn’t resign Hairston and the talk was they were too slow to act. This off season they sign Young who as best I can recall after checking the only outfielders to sign Pro contracts before that were David DeJesus, Marlon Byrd and David Murphy and they panicked? o_0

  • Alex68

    and yet you two keep responding to me… which is why i say to thee, Thanks, for readingeth, and commenting eth!
    Sandy Lovers eth!

  • Hodges14

    The Mets did screw up the situation because they had no Plan B for the priority of their off season.

  • chago

    “Did the Mets screw up not signing Peralta? Yes, in the sense that they didn’t sign him. Did they screw up by not somehow thinking it would cost that much? I don’t think they did, but that’s just me.”

    I guess we can just disagree because I am of the exact opposite opinion .

    Did they screw up by not signing Peralta? No he was vastly overpriced.

    Did they screw up by having absolutely no idea what the market was going to be like for their primary off season target . ABSOLUTELY !

    And that sir is just me .

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Nobody ever said it “has to be a power position” but whatever.

    The 92 runs come from solid production behind him? I don’t think I’ve heard the phrase “solid production” uttered about the Mets offense last season ever.

    Moving him off 2B to 1B let’s you put EY at 2B, which improves their defense. Even if Murphy isn’t hitting with that power you want, the runs saved with EY/Lagares/Tejada could compensate.

    This is all moot because they won’t move EY to 2B. They would have if they had traded Murphy but that didn’t happen.

  • Taskmaster4450

    How can you say they have no desire to win?

    Didnt signing FAs this winter show a desire to win? Doesnt trading for top rated prospects show a desire to win?

    Or is it just because they arent following your model of spend spend spend since that is all you believe to be a winning formula.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    So you say they screwed up. Awesome. We’re on the same page.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I’m just not willing to say the Mets screwed up by doing something a lot of so-called “experts” did to. Like yelling at one kid in a class that all failed.

    And if you agree he was overpriced, what are we even arguing about.

  • WillisReid

    It’s crappy out, I’m bored and there is better than a 50% chance that if you get poked enough you’ll freak out and start whining your case to the admins here.

  • Hodges14

    They trade for top rated prospects then keep them in the minors until after Super 2 deadlines instead of fielding the best 25 man roster that they can. That’s the definition of not trying to win. If they already had a winning roster I could almost (almost) understand it, but with a perpetually losing team to go north without your best 25 players, yes they are saying they have no desire to win.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Which terrible hitter should have batted leadoff? He tried 10 different players. What more do you want from him? They don’t have Rickey Henderson hiding under the Pepsi Porch.

  • Hodges14

    Val Pascucci has a very distinguished minor league career also. Unfortunately that doesn’t mean jack $hyte in the majors.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I’d rather read speculation and actual thought pieces over articles reflexive of work others are doing.

    Let me read a case for who should lead off instead of criticisms of every single word Collins utters. Where’s that article?

  • phil m

    Does anyone really believe the Mets have put together a team that can take them all the way through October? Probably not we’re all hoping that the team can throw up a 500+ season and be on the right track

    That being said does anyone really see Murphy as a true 2nd baseman of the future, he is where I hope people say no. We have 2 other options that we should explore to see what can be done for 2015. We have EY who if he can increase his OBP and cause havoc on the base paths would be an interesting option and we have Flores who has far better offensive potential than Murphy but again the defense is an issue, though with the new conditioning who knows, maybe he’s better now. Why not get these guys out there in the position you hope one can stick at and make 2nd a plus position.

    As for CY and Dice-K, hells yes you play them. For no other reason that if they can be really productive through June, Sandy can make another deal and bring back players like Vic Black, who can contribute to the team for years to come, from a 3-4 month rental.

  • chago

    Arguing ?

    I’m just commenting on a Mets related situation.

  • Hodges14

    I’m absolutely shocked that anyone would suggest that EYjr should be playing ahead of Murphy.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Have you seen what guys who can play defense and hit HRs in the OF get?

    Cruz and Morales are basically DHs which limits them to the AL, thus eliminating half the potential suitors. And Drew plays a position which also isnt a high need at this time throughout baseball.

    Even Byrd, who is, what 36, got a two year deal at $8M a year after one good year. And he doesnt have the skill set that CY does. CY has speed and power along with GG type defense. He hits 25 HRs steals 20+ bases while hitting .240 and he will be in line for a nice multi-year deal that far exceeds the QO.

  • BigAl831

    You want your best hitters getting the most at bats. Not your worst.

    So to answer your question. Anybody but Omar Q and Ruben Tejada last season.

  • Taskmaster4450

    I will agree with you and cut Collins some slack considering he hasnt had to fill out a lineup card or make a BP move yet.

    But the time is coming.

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    Murph is actually a good player… Not great but goid. 290, 40 doubles, 15 hr and 15 sb, not bad

  • chago

    He might be last I read Rickey still wants to play but they won’t even take him in the independent league anymore . There is a rule there something about not being eligible to play if you are collecting Social Security .

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I don’t mean literally arguing of course. Debating. Discussing. Whatever you want to call it.

  • CJM

    Glass half full, brother. My glass is always half full.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Why? Because one team went crazy over a player.

    Did the Yankees misread the market because they were outbid for Cano? There is a level a team thinks a player is worth and there is always the chance in FA, that another team will want him more. That is the thing about FA: it only takes one owner to totally alter your plans.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Who should have been our leadoff hitter last season?

    You want to do the ultimate saber lineup and leadoff with Wright, Duda, Murphy? What?

  • CJM

    I love EYJ. A great spark plug and fun to watch. He even hit a foul ball that my buddy caught. But he just doesn’t appear to be an everyday player. That doesn’t mean he cannot be an important piece to a winning team, however.

  • Hodges14

    CY became a full time player 7 years ago in a great hitters park and he’s averaged 20 HRs a year. Let’s not pretend he’s Babe Ruth or that anyone expects him to match his career averages in Citi Field even though those career averages are, well, average.

  • Hodges14

    2 years is what it took to get him to come here. It’s not a big deal.

  • CJM

    No, Tejada does not blow him away at all. Reyes’ career OBP is much, much higher. That’s not disputable in any way.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Murphy is a top 5 2B in the NL no matter how you slice it. He’s not just a good player for the Mets. He’s a good player by any standard. Think the Yankees wish they had Murphy this season? I bet they do.

  • Taskmaster4450

    You actually just contradicted yourself.

    It was the Mets job to determine what they thought a market price was for SS. Yet you freely admitted that Peralta was OVERPRICED i.e. he exceeded the valued price.

    Of course, we know the Peralta deal, for SS, was an aberration since Drew also didnt receive the same consideration. He is still unsigned because other than the Cardinals, no team is willing to dramatically overpay.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    The idea of creating a question mark where there isn’t one is crazy. Move Murphy off 2B? Maybe. But out of the lineup completely? Crazy.

  • Hodges14

    Murph in Yankee Stadium would be awesome. I’d expect 20+ HRs in addition to his normal offense. Then add in the fact that he’d be hitting in a solid lineup and most likely seeing better pitches to hit. Murph would do very well.

  • Hodges14

    Especially for EYjr. That makes no sense at all.

  • Taskmaster4450

    What should their plan B have been? There were basically two choices….Peralta or Drew unless you would consider a guy like Furcal?

    Peralta was giving a contract that exceeded what many think his worth is on the market. Good for him. Just like Cano was overpaid by the Mariners. So the Mets turned to Drew but Boras evidently was being equally absurd. Ironic how nobody else jumped on the bandwagon either.

    And if you are going to throw out trade, it takes two to make a trade and you never know what other teams are offering or, worse, asking for.

  • chago

    I have seen stranger things happen so I will not debate this further but I would be willing to bet that CY will be lucky to get the same 1 year 7.5 mil next year when all is said and done . I have absolutely no confidence in this guy . I hope he proves me wrong and has me eating crow pie spring , summer and early fall .

  • Hodges14

    The problem is that SS was the Mets priority this off season (as stated by the GM) and they didn’t have a Plan B when their Plan A blew up in their faces.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    If Murphy hits free agency, he’ll sign in the Bronx in about 10 seconds and all the Mets fans will freak out that we don’t have him.

    Don’t know what you got till it’s gone.

  • phil m

    Compaire their stat lines from last year, all in all not terribly different. if you give EY the extra 300 AB’s that Murphy had their runs would be similar, so would their doubles, EY would have more triples and yes Murphy would have more HR’s, though EY would have more SB’s. Their OBP is similar though Murphys AVG is higher. Murphy has more RBI’s but that comes from hitting middle of the order. You couple that with better protection from Wright hitting behind Murphy to “insert player here” for EY. Everyone dumps on EY since he’s never really had a starting job especially at his natural position. If he can take the negative fWAR out and make it a positive that to me is worth more than the slight up tick you “may” get from Murphy in the offensive categories.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Murphy hits in the middle of the order?

  • RyanF55

    Nice article. I disagree in part, however with: “If Collins chooses Lagares to play center, it leaves him without a viable leadoff hitter.” ….why is EY considered so much better than CY as a leadoff hitter?

    Career Leading Off:

    GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS

    EY 240 1102 994 141 259 40 11 6 58 91 88 182 .261 .324 .341 .666

    CY 252 1164 1049 155 257 67 2 46 114 42 100 253 .245 .314 .444 .758

    …it can argued that Chris would prove just as useful leading off as Eric. Chris has the obvious advantage in power – More HRs, R, RBIs, BBs, SLG, OPS where EY is more offers more speed with higher 3B, 2 more hits in 62 less at bats and much more of a threat to steal. Still, their averages are almost identical and beyond the base stealing, I don’t see how EY is such a better option.

    This team desperately needs power from anywhere, so maybe CY can deliver that. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

  • Taskmaster4450

    I asked you below, there basically were two plans: Peralta and Drew.

    Peralta got a crazy contract which exceed most people’s reasonable assessment of him. And Drew has been discussed ad nauseum.

  • BronxMets

    learn avgs

  • Hodges14

    Of course there were more than 2 options. As you mention trades. If upgrading SS is your top priority and the offseason goes by and you didn’t upgrade SS what does that tell you?

  • Taskmaster4450

    How many guys today in the majors are averaging 20 HRs a year especially coupled with the ability to steal 20+ bases?

    And sorry to disappoint you but Byrd had 1 20 HR season going into last year. Plus Young, when he hits a HR, it doesnt just clear the fence. The guy can hit bombs. So 25 HRs is highly possible for him if he has a bounce back year.

  • Hodges14

    You can’t just do a linear extrapolation to give EY jr 300 more at bats. His numbers were plummeting from over exposure as it was. In August he posted a .288 OBP. In September he posted a .287 OBP. The more he played the worse he got. He had a decent July for the Mets… that’s it.

  • Guest

    erwq

  • Guest

    Here’s a better table:

  • CJM

    Huh? WTF are you trying to communicate here? This is not a debatable thing–the numbers are the numbers.

  • Hodges14

    I agree. I view Murphy as sort of a poor man’s Chase Utley during his prime. He doesn’t have Utley’s power (partly because of the stadiums they each play in) but he does a lot of things well.

  • Hodges14

    Probably EYJ in left, Lagares in CF and Granderson in right. But we also don’t know what that $7.25M that went to CY would have been used for.

  • phil m

    I never said EY was better offensively the Murphy, just that Murphys overall offense did not give enough reason to keep him at second, especially when there is a better defensive option on the team, and the fact that the Mets need someone to lead off.

    Second even if Murphy went to the Yankess he’s a gap hitter not a pull hitter so the short porches would not give him an extra 10 HR’s he’s still be a teens HR guy.

    Third Murphy is NOT Keith of Johnny O. He is an over all poor defender. He should get 300-400 AB’s a year being a Utility guy, playing first second and third spelling guys during the week.

  • Kevin H

    C Young signing was waste of money. I’m convinced they signed him to be everyday RF and had no plans to sign Granderson. Then fan base erupted on talk radio/blogs/etc and they realized they couldn’t get away with just signing Young and not adding bigger name OF. Total waste.

  • Andrew Herbst

    We signed Young because he was thought to be our big move in the outfield. Once we signed Grandy, signing Young turned out to be a mistake because now we have to pay 7.5 mil to be a 3rd/4th outfielder.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    What is your plan B once Peralta is off the board?

  • Hodges14

    Last year Byrd made 1/10th of what the Mets are going to pay CY this year. It was basically a no-lose gamble. CY is making $7.25M on an $87M team. He’s making way too large a % of overall payroll for a guy with a limited upside and horrible downside.

    CY has hit 25 HRs twice in his career, once 4 years ago and the other 7 years ago while he was playing in a great hitters park. There is no logic that would make anyone think he’s going to do that after all this time and at Citi Field.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    It could wind up looking like that any way.

  • Erin_II

    TEDDY! The “new guys” are making fun of my underdeveloped brain again. SOS. Please help!

  • chago

    I don’t think it is a contradiction at all.

    If you have a top priority or even 2 or 3 priorities going into an off season. You (Richie) as GM have to make it your job to have a very good idea what the market for that/those players is going to be . If you don’t then CY signings happen because you didn’t do your homework you got caught with your nickers around your knees and then to aggravate the situation you over react and make an unnecessary move that cuts into your already sub par fragile budget .

    So he failed to do his homework , got caught completely off guard , over reacted and made a hasty move and all because he didn’t look deeply into the Cardinals needs , see they would be in the market for a SS and that they could overpay because of their already low payroll and the fact that they have a very well rounded team already and Peralta could be considered their missing piece to a Ws championship .

    Now you or me making that error is excusable because well we are what we are and that is not our job . But Richie is what he is a 5 million a year GM of a ML baseball team and it is his job to find these things out or at least have contemplated all the different scenarios that could happen . It isn’t like this is the first time a championship contender over paid for what they think is the missing piece to their puzzle . He should have at least though about the possibility!

  • phil m

    Far from a poor mans Utley, Chase could actually play second. he wasn’t a liability out in the field the way Murphy is. If you want the offense at second they should bit the bullet and play Flores at second.

  • Kevin H

    Huh? Last time I checked, Murph’s “natural position” was 3B.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Not much shocks me when it comes to this Mets fanbase, but someone saying Murphy should be just a utility guy definitely does.

    EY can only be as valuable as Murphy in a part time role, like 2012. Any other time he’s posted a negative WAR or last season, when Murphy was a full win better.

    No way to slice it. We can only hope EY gives us in a part time role what Murphy does in a full time role.

  • chago

    The Yankees didn’t panic and make a knee jerk signing like CY two days after Cano was signed still reeling from “Sticker Shock” as Richie put it. . They decided Cano wasn’t worth the money and methodically went about signing players to make their team better and over come the loss of Cano.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I think you mean offensive…potential.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Yes, you’re correct.

  • Hodges14

    That’s the thing with EY… the more he plays the more his warts show as he is exposed. In the case of EY, less is more. Murphy on the other hand seems to thrive on playing every day. He’s a bit streaky at times but over his career he’s shown to be just as good a hitter at the end of the season as at the beginning.

  • Captain America

    Young was honorable mention in an article I read this morning in the best off season transactions.

  • Hodges14

    right… agree but in the meantime $7.25M out of an $87M budget is wasted. That’s too much for this team to give away.

  • BigAl831

    Actually, yes.

    I would’ve done Murphy, Wright, Duda. Byrd, How could that be any worse than having Q or Valdespin or Baxter get 4 or 5 ABs a game? But I’m not the manager.

  • Hodges14

    If SS is my priority of the off season then I have to make trading for a SS a priority. Since Alderson got here what major league talent has he traded for?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Over the last two seasons he’s been out there every day. He’s one of the few consistencies Collins can write into the lineup every…but he should be on the bench. SMH. #MetsFanLogic

  • chago

    Here is an excerpt from another article about CY I doubt that they agree with your guys.

    Baseball Prospectus (subscription required):

    “Hard cheeses have better shots against graters than Young does against right-handed pitchers, and it’s fair to wonder whether a player with less cachet would be labeled as an extra outfielder by now.”

    “Even when Young posted big numbers in his rookie season (32 home runs and 27 stolen bases), he still had an fWAR of just 0.5. His fWAR increased to 2.3 in 2008 before declining again to 0.2 in 2009.”

    “In 2010, Young’s career trend shifted drastically again, as he posted fWARs of 4.1 and 4.5 in 2010 and 2011, respectively. In 2012, he declined again to a 2.5 fWAR and once again last season to a 0.5 fWAR.”

  • phil m

    Do I take a chance on a guys who’s going to be 23 over a guy going to be 29, who has the potential to be a great offensive player, yes. If you’re willing to deal with crappy defense I prefer the young kid with a far higher ceiling than a guy who has already hit his.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    7.5million in MLB contracts is equivalent to NOTHING…It is such a miniscule amount its not even funny.

    What STUD is C.Young blocking from playing in the OF???

    ERIC YOUNG jr???? LMAO

    Look at their career numbers then tell me who is the better player…..

    The answer is CHRIS YOUNG and its not even close so cut it out. Stop acting as if CY was given a boatload of cash and as if he is blocking a Mike Trout.

    Eric Young sucks which is why the Rockies gave him away for nothing

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I think the team has bigger problems that Murphy’s defense. You’re creating a question mark where there isn’t one.

  • chago

    Task ,

    Here is an excerpt from a Baseball Prospectus article on CY , above you said something like 25 homers and 20 steals a 240 avg will get him a big enough deal in free agency that he will turn down a QO .

    “Young posted big numbers in his rookie season (32 home runs and 27 stolen bases), he still had an fWAR of just 0.5.”

    Seems like his numbers ring a little empty would you give him 15 million a year on a multiyear contract with that analysis ?

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    Chris Young was a good signing by Alderson.

    And I HATE Alderson, but this was a good signing.

    He is light years better than Eric Young Jr.

    If both players were Free agents in this offseason C.Young received his $7.2mil and E.Young jr. wouldve received a minor league deal with a Spring training invite and thats a FACT!

    So suck on those apples.

    CY will do fine this year

  • BarnRat

    I think they believed they were going to be able to move Murhph as part of a package for a SS / lead-off, move EY to 2B and leave the new OF intact. If so, missed it by that much…

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    You…like something Alderson did? We’re talking about Sandy Alderson, right? The General Manager of the New York Mets? The baseball team?

    Excuse my while I pick my jaw up off the floor.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    Bingo, had the Yanks resigned Grandy, C Young would be our 2014 attempt at recreating another Scott Hairston/Marlon Byrd type season.

    Matt Cerrone ran another one of those ” Do you like Sandy now” polls, and the fans on MB went nuts.

  • chago

    “7.5million in MLB contracts is equivalent to NOTHING…It is such a miniscule amount its not even funny.”

    Sadly enough it is closing fast on 10% of our entire payroll . I agree that isn’t funny at all .

  • Hodges14

    I think there are 2 too many Youngs on this team. FWIW I was against the signing(s) of Chris Young the pitcher also. Seems like Alderson has a thing for players who’s last name is Young.

  • gasparsarm

    And who says there’s just three guys play all the games. All this talk about this is my left fielder, this is my leadoff hitter. Without dominant play most of the time the players will split time and mixing in 4 for 3 slots shouldn’t be that catastrophic.
    No?

  • Hodges14

    But Byrd made 1/10th of what CY is going to make this year. That’s a big deal on an $87M team.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    What the hell is an fWAR is that the same as a rWAR, Civil War, World War?

    War doesnt mean shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh……..

  • phil m

    Yes the team has lots of problems but one has to be defense up the middle.

    Out SP staff is going to be made up of a 40+ year old (2 yr deal so have to keep healthy), a guy with a tear in his shoulder already, our number 3 had a great end of the year last year but can he repeat. then we have the young guns, 1 making his first full year, 3 others going to start this year at some point (syndergaard, Majia, Montero) and finally Dice K and Lanna who knows.

    We have to have solid defense since out only strong suit is our pitching and we need solid defense to keep their pitch counts low and get them deeper in games. Having an OF with Granderson, Lagares and CY shows that. Playing EY at 2nd would give better up the middle protection that the pitching needs.

  • chago

    You have actually watched Collins manage the last few years haven’t you?

    Well in case you haven’t he tends to have his favorite sons and rides them right onto the DL or exhaustion whichever comes first.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Agreed. There won’t be one leadoff guy, there will be several. No sense trying to find “the one,” especially not before they even play a game.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    10 different players were in the leadoff spot last season. Who did he ride to the DL?

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    I liked a few moves he did

    – Extending Niese & Dickey
    – Trading Beltran for a prospect(wish he got more but hey)
    – Trading Dickey for prospects
    – Trading Byrd/Buck for prospects
    – Signing C.Young
    – Signing Granderson
    – Signing Valverde

    I think thats about it…3 1/4years thats NOT GOOD

    I dont have enough characters to list the moves I disliked…so I’ll just say I hated every move but the ones i listed

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Which starter has a tear in his shoulder?

    And I agree defense is important and Lagares should be in CF, but EY is not an every day player. When he plays every day, regardless of defense, he gets exposed. He’s basically Justin Turner with more speed.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    guess who needs a 3B ?

  • Just_Da_damaja

    I value Murphy over anyone in the lineup, including Wright.

    I’d trade Wright before Murphy

  • Just_Da_damaja

    cant really say that, we’ve never seen EY come of the bench.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    I made a typo should be 7.2mil but all in all I cant blame C.Young for that…

    Fans are taking it out on CY because the Mets couldnt afford better players.

    Who would they have rathered he signed???
    David Murphy

    Ive seen many Mets fans scream we should sign Nate Mclouth. McLouth sucks and he was brutal the last time he was in the NL East with the Braves and below avg in B-More(a hitters park)…which is why no other teams were interested in him and he had to settle for a backup job in Washington.

    Cyoung will be fine with the Mets

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    Lol there is a nice fan shot that was done on war a few weeks back, wink wink

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    Exactly

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    I think your right

  • phil m

    Niese has a tear

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    Well if 2b, ss, c, cf, lf arent power hitters i guess 1 b has to be

  • waldorf

    I couldn’t agree more. Lagares should be the starting CF. And what of Matt den Dekker? He did poorly in his late-season call-up, but he has a history of taking a couple of months to get squared away every time he is promoted. I think signing Chris Young was a very poor move.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    So manyy different WARS…

    Fangraphs has their own, baseball reference has theirs…I think BP has theirs too its ridiculous.

    No one can agree on 1 accurate system because there is none…and when you find the flaw in their system they tell you, “Hey it has flawss but its a work in progress”…lol…PURE B.S.

  • EYJ is not a viable leadoff hitter, despite Terry’s love for him so Lagares should definitely start the season in center. I like the low risk/high reward Chris Young signing. If he has a dreadful year you release him. If he succeeds, you flip him at the deadline for prospects if the Mets aren’t in the playoff hunt. In either situation, you either start EYJ in his place or bring up Cesar Puello.

  • $14435385

    Chris Young will get playing time whether or not he performs, because this franchise does not believe in the concept of sunk costs. He’ll be in the lineup even if he’s awful, because (in their mind) you don’t pay a guy $7M to ride the pine. Lagares, who may be the best defensive OF in the NL right now, will languish while a guy who strikes out 200 times a year will get every opportunity to prove he’s not the player everyone knows he is.

  • CyYout

    Just to point out a couple of things. Young is a former All-Star in what should be his prime years. If he plays well, he will easily be worth the value of his contract. If he plays well, he can be flipped for prospects in July or offered a qualifying offer at the end of the year, which if he turns down, nets the team a compensation pick. Also, I would love nothing more than to see Lagares succeed, but let’s keep expectations in check — absolutely no one was talking about Juan at this time last year. In all the outfield chaos, Nieuwenhuis, Cowgill, Byrd, den dekker, Brown, Duda, and Baxter, nothing on Lagares. The worst thing that happens is Lagares starts in Triple A to continue his development. There have been plenty of defensive wizards generating buzz who just couldn’t cut it offensively (Gutierrez from the Mariners comes to mind as a recent example), so hedging a bet with a modest one-year contract is not the end of the world.

  • R04

    Post less.

  • R04

    Your dummy finally shows.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    lets not forget that CY did that in a hitters ballpark for RH hitters, is an automatic out going to RF and basically hit the Jason Bay wall…trying to to pull everything, he became a 1 dimensional hitter, the book has been out on him, which is why he was BENCHED in Oakland and in AZ his last year there.

    Now if he truly has been working with Rod Carew this off-season, I applaud him and hope he hits .350… in LF….

    cuz no way in hell should he take away an AB from Lagares.

  • mad met

    Brian mccann would have been nice

  • mad met

    And the backlash of talking about trading murphy stopped that crap as well

  • mad met

    If you get hr froms 3 other positions first base can be a doubles postionas well olerude hernendez oneil these guys were not huge powr threats they were good hitters

  • mad met

    Yeah it will be great watching murphy and reyes playing for the yankees next season

  • mad met

    I would say murphy should play first and florez and ey can share second

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    EYJR IS A BUM….LOOK UP HIS STATS LAST YEAR HE SUCKED

    He just seemed good because he was an improvement over Baxter, Ankiel, Cowgill etc which isnt hard at all the guy was beyond brutal for 2 out of the 3 months he was here.

    He stinks and he was even a worse hitter in CITI FIELD…And he isnt a power hitter so wtf was his excuse?

    He shouldve been tearing up Citi Fields gaps but he had a .200avg and a below .300obp he stinks. And the fact that Collins states if he gets 25more bunt hits per season he’d be great if further proof how bad he is…he shouldnt be an option at ALL.

    Whoever supports him being a starter has a pea for a brain and doesnt know a damn thing about baseball

  • oleosmirf

    Yes, Sandy did not upgrade the SS position, something he stated was a priority going into the offseason, however, after Peralta signed that contract that any reasonable Mets fan knows would be a mistake for us, what exactly do you want him to do?

    It’s easy to say he should have traded for someone, but it’s almost March and not a single SS has been traded. Not one.

    Owings and Gregorious haven’t been traded, either has Escobar or Lee or Starlin Castro or any other SS rumored to be available. It seems to me, the only option is to do this:

    1) give up top prospects for a SS
    2) give Drew all-star money for average production

    Me, I’d rather say screw it and see if Tejada can rebound…

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    I think col would like murph at 2b or dodgers at 3b

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I couldn’t care less if the Mets are winning.

  • oleosmirf

    The problem is his numbers were and still are better than the players he’s competing against for playing time.

    It’s quite obvious that EY Jr. is a below average OF. However, his 2013 stats were better than Lagares, C. Young, Kirk, den Dekker or anyone else in consideration for the OF.

    Thats why it’s quite reasonable for some to want EY Jr. to start as the guys who would play over him had worse numbers than he did last season.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Taking a “couple of months”? It takes a “couple of months” to land a robot on Mars. It shouldn’t take any baseball player that long to get ready.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    But how do you really feel?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Nobody “has to be” anything other than not horrible. Winning is all the matters. The best combination of players should play. You have light hitting teams like SF winning the WS and power hitting teams like the Yankees falling short.

    There is only the group that wins.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I believe you mean he “had” a tear, no?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I wouldn’t go THAT far, though he would get you more.

  • I agree, compare his contract to those guys and others this offseason looks like they paid slightly more in one year so they didn’t have to go two.

    Besides wait around, don’t get Grandy, Young is gone and OF is same as last year minus Byrd. Talk about complaints then.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Are you saying you arent a EY fan Leroy?

    Although I do agree the OF should be Grandy, Lagares, CY

  • Taskmaster4450

    I really dont get the hatred for CY.

    Look at this realistically. When Alderson signed him, he had no way of knowing that he was going to get another OF on the FA market. It was obvious they needed at least one more to replace Byrd. The fact that Grandy ended up signing here could not be foreseen at the time CY was signed. Sure, you might claim $7M is too much for him. But as we know, the contracts got out of line quickly this season. Also, if he does have a decent year, $7M will be cheap for him compared to some of the other salaries out there. Remember, I doubt many were singing the praises of Byrd this time last year. At the same time, tell me an OF you could have for $7M to hold the place while Puello, Vaughn, and others try to hone their craft in Vegas?

    For those who like to attack CY, keep in mind that he was suffering from a shoulder injury last year. I wonder how many major league players would hit with a bad shoulder. Probably not too many. Another thing…stop harping on his BA. Yes he hit .200 with 12 HRs last year. However, if he didnt; if he hit .260 with 28 HRs he would be playing in Flushing for $7M. Now some of you might be happy about that at this time. But again, how many of you were happy with Byrd as the starting RF last year (other than the fact that it kept Duda from being out there…although he was no better in LF)?

    Overall, this is a low risk signing. It is a one year deal that, at worst, if it goes bad, costs the Mets nothing other than money. There was no draft pick given up. The Mets arent stuck with him for multiple years. He is a one and done player. However, the upside, the potential for a 20/20 season, far outweighs the risk.

  • mitchpetanick

    The plan is simple – they send Lagares to Triple A to gain more seasoning. Chris Young is the starting CF and they hope he can revive his career ala Marlon Byrd, at a premium position. They flip him at the trade deadline and call up a more polished Lagares to finish the season in CF. If Chris Young stinks up the joint, they call up Lagares sooner and have taken a calculated $7.25m risk. Not all signings turn out great, and I would rather the $7m signing turn out to be a bust, if anything.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Really?

    Isnt this the franchise that ate the $19M or whatever was owed to Bay last year? Didnt they jettison Ollie and Castillo out a few years ago during ST at the cost of about $18M for that season?

    For a franchise that doesnt believe in sunken costs, they ate over $35M in just those three instances.

  • Taskmaster4450

    I think he means Den Dekker’s history is it takes him a couple months to get acclimated to a new level when promoted.

  • Details, details, pffft!

  • Taskmaster4450

    Also, injuries are inevitable. A team doesnt go through 162 games with the same 25 guys.

  • EzRider

    All opinions aside of who should be playing where, the assumption that “leaving a player in the minors” some how delays said players development is preposterous. This is the only real purpose of the minor leagues. To develop talent.

  • Alberto Salebe

    I was about to said that. I think he was going to be the big fish ’till Granderson came along

  • Taskmaster4450

    When did McCann become an OF?

  • Taskmaster4450

    How do you know it improves their defense?

    EY was so good at 2B the Rockies moved him to the outfield. Why? iColorado has had a bunch of journeymen players manning 2B.

  • Taskmaster4450

    And how will the Yankees get a hold of either Reyes or Murphy?

    Their farm system is worse than the Mets was in 2010.

  • Taskmaster4450

    I’m not.

    It is the internet….anything is possible.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Except for that no trade clause in Wright’s contract.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Murphy wont hit free agency.

    Unlike the past, Alderson and this FO arent about letting guys walk if they can prevent it. This is especially true after the Reyes situation.

    Murphy will get a long term extension if he is part of the future plans or will be traded.

  • Taskmaster4450

    To counter some thing that was posted below, how come everyone is so convinced the EY is an upgrade at 2B defensively. He was a 2B in Colorado and was moved to the OF. Why? It wasnt for some amazing prospect that he was blocking, Colorado used basically journeymen players like Mark Ellis at 2B.

    I think too many are jumping to conclusions believing that EY would be a good 2B. He might not be any better than Murphy.

  • BarnRat

    Good post. The only observation I’ll add is that Byrd, in addition to playing way above expectations, was so cheap that his signing didn’t affect other potential moves. Seems like CY’s price is impacting other moves, whether it’s SS or bullpen or something else I’m not thinking of.

  • Fonzie

    It tells you that there wasn’t a good fit available neither by trade nor free agency. Since SS is a priority position of need should they’ve gone out and sign Drew for what he wants because we need an upgrade at SS.

    Should Sandy just say screw it and sign Drew for 2 years and 28 million. Haven’t the Mets just gone through a period where they had to wait out so many dead weight contracts because they went out and filled a need. When do Met fans learn that you can’t make a move to make a move.

    Unfortunately we don’t have these players down on the farm. We never have replacements in house. Look at all the top teams, what do they have in common? They produce their core players. Redsox, Rays, Rangers, Reds, Cardinals, Braves, The Yankee core was homegrown. Even the lowly Pirates are no longer acting like a farms system for big market teams and they’re finally keeping their own players. The Mets develope on average one impact player per decade. I applaud Sandy for not signing a guy like Drew for what he’s looking for or a guy like Peralta for 4 years.

  • Andrew Herbst

    Yeah I thought that he was going to turn out to be our major acquisition.

  • Andrew Herbst

    I’m concerned about CY’s low average and high strikeouts.

  • MyasDaddy

    Finally someone who gets it. For whatever it’s worth. Isn’t CY worth it over seeing hacks like Cowgill, Ankiel, Brown etc. He’s better than all of them combined. Low risk, high reward. I like it.

  • The plan… :-p

  • jason bay

    What’s with all the SHOUTING?

  • SRT

    This ^

    I know I’m in the minority as being one of those who actually liked the CY signing – for just those reasons you outlined.

  • jason bay

    Thought you liked the Hawkins and Izzy signings too.

  • Fonzie

    “So he failed to do his homework , got caught completely off guard , over reacted and made a hasty move and all because he didn’t look deeply into the Cardinals needs , see they would be in the market for a SS and that they could overpay because of their already low payroll and the fact that they have a very well rounded team already and Peralta could be considered their missing piece to a Ws championship ”

    That’s utterly ridiculous to say he didn’t do his homework and got caught off guard. Nobody foresaw Peralta getting a 4 year deal, not one MLB insider thought he’d get more than 2 possibly 3. Sandy is supposed to look deeply into the Cardinals needs? Another utterly ridiculous comment. He has his own club to worry about. Everybody knew the Cardinals were in the market for a SS but nobody thought they would give Peralta a 4 year deal.Most thought they’d tap into that rich farm system and pry one away.

    It’s so easy for you to sit behind a keyboard and say Richie is supposed to figure these things out or should at least thought about the possibility but when you actually have to do the job it’s another story. One you don’t even know if Peralta would’ve said no to the Cards and yes to the Mets even if the Mets matched the Cards contract. I’d bet the farm that he goes to St Louis and plays for a perennial contender over a team rebuilding. It would’ve taken either a lot more money, years or both to get Peralta and I wouldn’t have given him more than 2 years let alone 4.

    And is Alderson supposed to give in to Drews demands and pay him 14 million a year so he could at least say hey I said SS was a priority so don’t kill me if I just made a ludicrous deal. Arm chair GM’s kill me. You guys are the first to kill the GM but never have the alternatives.

  • Fonzie

    You need a farm system to trade for major league talent unless you were okay with trading Matt Harvey or Zack Wheeler because before the Dickey trade they were the only two commodities any team would’ve given you something back for. When people mentioned trading guys like Niese and Ike, the majority of the MMO community killed Alderson and it wasn’t even Alderson stirring up the rumors.

  • Super T

    Not so sure if it is “hatred” for CY or that the Mets paid like 25% of their available monies to sign him with so many holes to fill. He is a reclamation project on a team that needs sure things. I think he will be improved this year, but I would have rather allocated the $7.5M elsewhere.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Mitch,

    You know how much I value your insight so I do have to ask what more seasoning can Lagares get in the minors, having already spent so many seasons there? I know you pointed out how he is too over aggressive in his swing but is that something that needs further minor league polishing as it is more working with the proper coaching – which he could get at either level? Otherwise, would it be more a case that he will remain the .225-type hitter we saw the last two months of the season after NL pitchers got to know him and he’s being sent down for despite the marvels of his glove and arm it’s really a case that with their anemic hitting, one more anemic hitter is a luxury this team cannot afford to keep?

    As it is, we all know Chris Young has always been a horrible hitter against right handed pitching so the dilemma is if he is going to an every day player, he is going to be anemic as well two thirds of the time – he is best suited to be a platoon player and perhaps that means starting against left handers with Duda sharing time against right handed pitchers and Eric Young being the center fielder and lead off hitter.

    Which means we spent $7.25 million on the hopes we might get a prospect and some of that money back mid season? For an organization so scrapped for even petty cash, a gamble like that for CY is a waste of money (his power figures were aided by Arizona and he has been in the decline for three years with pitchers getting him to lunge at outside pitches) – just like the $4 million we wasted thinking we could get the same out of Shaun Marcum along with the $11 million we are now gambling we could rid ourselves after this year with Colon.

    This could turn out a waste of $22.25 million (and more if the stuff stops working for Colon this season as well) and if signing these players was based on statistical analysis, then Sandy I do suggest having second thoughts about that type of methodology and becoming less nervous about making some decisions based on hunches instead.

  • Flatbush0460

    I’vewwondered this since day one, and have been wondering what glue Sandy was sniffing. The picture crystallizes without Young in the picture. I believe he was afraid he couldn’t land Granderson, and didn’t want to get left at the altar, hence the preemptive move of Young. In the military they call it PPP. Sandy should be familiar with the term, being an ex marine

  • My Plan.

  • B-Met Fan

    John, your reservations are exactly how I feel about the addition of Chris Young in the outfield mix. I’m hoping they keep Lagares in a four outfielder mix and play him regularly. If he can’t crack the starting nine, they need to use Curtis Granderson as an everyday outfielder and, at least at first, share the two remaining outfield spots between the three remaining guys. In addition, in the rare cases Daniel Murphy needs a rest, he’s an iron man for the most part, Eric Young Jr. fill in at second base allowing all three to get some at bats. After a month or two, the cream may rise to the top and offer more definition about a permanent three in the outfield.

  • I used to be worried about all of these veterans taking spots from young guys, but then I realized, the Mets could care less about actually winning in 2014 anyway. Ok maybe that’s a stretch, then again…maybe not. The truth is these vets are very injury prone and are also no longer good at baseball. It’ll just hurt our eyes watching them steal time form younger players.

  • mad met

    Not so sure its just hatered for cy. More so the fact that we dont have a ss and we still have a gapping hole at first base ..the amount of strikouts this team is going to have is mind blowing. I feel if the other positions would have been addressed cy would have got some more slack but for now people see hin as a block for juan .. if we hadfor sure bats throughout line up juan could have less pressure on him to grow as a hitter

  • BarnRat

    I mentioned in a post a while ago that given the opportunity to watch 2 players of similar ability, I’d be much more willing to spend money (Jeff, listening now?) watching a young player hopefully on the way up. Basically, I’m willing to pay something for hope.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I don’t have a lot of confidence they’ll give him an extension. If they were going to, I think they would have done it already.

    Murphy has been one of the best producers on this team for the past three seasons and given the uncertainty surrounding most other positions, it would go a long way toward placating the fans if they gave him an extension, yet they haven’t.

    We’ll see what happens. I hope they extend him but who knows.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Because then Lagares can be in CF without having to fight for playing time or be demoted.

    Lagares in CF, Chris Young in RF, EY at 2B and Tejada (assuming he gets the job) at SS.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    So should we promote him and consider the season lost for him because it takes “a couple of months”?

    He’s a nice player but not a prospect any more and doesn’t offer much.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    As long as the Mets are winning, it doesn’t matter.

  • mad met

    Watch him end up on the yankees

  • Joey D.

    Hi Task,

    It’s not the signing of CY itself but that without other moves to compliment his acquisition, the signing of Chris for $7.25 million to a team with such limited financial resources as the Mets and taking the direction it is makes little sense. If we had the money, then it wouldn’t matter, regardless of the direction the team was taking.

    CY has never been the type of hitter you describe him as. It wasn’t a question of being injured last season. His power has always been aided by playing in a hitters ball park. When he had his best season in 2010, 20 of his 27 home runs came in Arizona. Though the park inflated the power of others there as well, it will be noted that his other teammates had higher home/road home run ratios and were less dependent upon that home field advantage to put the numbers up that he did.

    In addition, only four of his 12 home runs last year came in Oakland, with them instead being hit in parks like Boston, Texas and Minnesota, which again favor hitters. That is not like Citi Field.

    CY is also a terrible hitter against right handed pitchers so to be most effective for us, he would have to be part of a platoon against left handed starters only, with perhaps Duda his left handed counterpart.

    The problem I have is that I do feel with the pitching we have that we are ready to make our move now and that the signing of Chris as a platoon player would have been an important step had two further steps been taken – a better left handed platoon other than Duda and a first baseman. With that in hand, and the expected improvement of d’Arnaud behind the plate, that would potentially give us six good hitters in the lineup which would easily allow us to compensate keeping Lagares full time in center and take advantage of that great glove and throwing arm which would save a lot of runs against us. Shortstop would be our one real hole and most every club has that one weak link in the lineup.

    All that would mean is having tried to sign some of the dependable but modestly affordable bats that were out there last November – not the Cano, Choo or Cruz type. What would be so wrong having a payroll in the $105 – $110 million range?

    Nothing, except that we do not have the resources to carry one. That is why so many of us are upset and have a right to be. We said because Sterling Mets had to concentrate it’s limited revenue sources on their debt payments and that meant cutting back on expenditures across the board in everything that the Mets simply could not put together a true rebuilding plan because it would not be feasible based on such a restrictive budget. Again, what else is holding us back at this point? We are no longer at the stage where we have to be patient waiting for the pitching to develop – it’s already here and only apt to get better even without Matt Harvey this season.

    That’s why CY is getting criticism for something he doesn’t deserve. His signing and the criticism of it is because of a much bigger problem which only got worse because it needed to be accompanied by more steps than were taken and instead stopped short when it shouldn’t had – because of payroll management.

  • mad met

    What they are best at $ salery relief for jays…. as for murphy i was being a jerk cause he is one of my fav players right behind reyes and they always seem to trade the guys i like and i hate the yankees so like i said i was being a jerk

  • ATLMetsfan

    So you were cool with Lagares, EY, and Duda or MDD in our outfield. Because at the time we signed Chris Young that’s what our starting outfield looked like. Wouldn’t it be nice to live life with a crystal ball, but nobody knew we would be able to acquire Granderson. If I remember correctly nobody considered EY a legitimate every day player last fall.

    My opinion is Lagares should start over EY. The importance of a prototypical leadoff hitter is way overblown. Not that EY is even a great leadoff hitter.

    You also assume we can keep 3 outfielders healthy throughout the season, this is a rare occurrence. It would behoove every major league team to have strong competition among 4 (or more) guys to play the outfield because you’re almost surely going to need them all.

  • Super T

    No, basically in a nutshell I’m saying I would have preferred to spend the $7.5M elsewhere than on Chris Young.

    Would have much preferred to have put that money toward 1B Jose Abreu and/or SS Stephen Drew. A case could be made that Abreu is unproven, but I’m willing to bet his stats at the end of the year better Chris Youngs’. Abreu is only 27 and I’ve heard several reports that his stats better Yusiel Puigs’ in the same Cuban League, and he’s more mature.

    EY is not a leadoff hitter either. He’s been given the role because outside of David Wright the team doesn’t have anybody that can regularly get on base (the most important component for a lead-off hitter).

  • Joey D.

    Hi Mad Met,

    Though I spoke of Juan not being able to remain in center because we do not have the bats to compensate for his lack of hitting, I did not associate the misgivings many have toward CY due to his signing being a direct reason that Lagares could be sent down despite his golden glove and golden arm – because you had already expressed that so well.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Super T,

    Not to mention that putting the issue of shortstop aside, there were others that could have resolved our problems at first base and left field (better than CY because they could hit both left and right handed pitching) in the same price range which would have made our offense much stronger.

    I would not go and sign Cruz for the same reasons as I wished we never signed Colon but there is still Kendrys Morales – if we had that $7.25 million we could have used that to help possibly lure him in…. or at least attempted to.

  • ATLMetsfan

    The question about Abreu isn’t his offensive potential, its the potential that he’d be a major liability on defense. Which is why it only ever made sense for an AL team to risk a 6 year/$68M contract.

    And if we’re solely looking at money in 2014, Abreu should have a better season than Young – he’s getting paid 50% more… and oh yeah 5 extra years of guaranteed cash. #applesandoranges

  • Joey D.

    Hi MyasDaddy,

    I would have worded it a slightly bit differently, saying he could be a good bat against left handed pitching. That way it’s accenting the positive. It’s accenting the negative when saying he’s at least better than Cowgill, Ankiel, Brown either individually or as a combination. 🙂

  • sarge69

    CY is a piece that SA, probably others in organization, signed to just stop all the naysayers who reminded Mets of their projection for 2015 once $$ were off the books.

    The problem with CY is that he was signed w/o Mets having a plan for his playing time, that takes away from Lagares, etc who are the future, just to say, “Hey, we signed the player that once, many years ago was a power hitter with speed in Arizona and might just need a new scenario to return to form.” but has now put TC who has always been partial to veterans despite the need for young players to play and show what they can do, into probably going with veterans CY, Grandy and EY while Lagares is the odd number out.

    Maybe the signing looked good at the time to FO but weren’t they watching how much better Juan had gotten while playing Winter Ball?

    Anyway I think that ST will sort this out and all the articles, posts and other written stuff will give way to ST action and hopefully the best OF goes North and the lead off dilemma solves itself.

    PS Much of this would have been mute if Jose was still here, SS and lead off man.

    Lets Go Mets!

  • waldorf

    Like Mike Trout

  • waldorf

    He’s just as good a defensive outfielder as Lagares and, his month in the bigs to the contrary, he can hit. You don’t write off a guy just before he has a slow start. Who remembers Mike Schmidt’s batting average in his first full year?

  • Joey D.

    Hi Mike,

    It’s because of the scouting reports about Juan throughout him minor league career based on their observations. A few weeks back Mitch did a detailed report on his own using video to back up the fact that Lagares had what is called a very over-aggressive swing and that seems to have been his drawback throughout the minors.

    As we know, the best way to judge a rookie hitter is how he fairs against major league pitching the second time around when pitchers get to know him better. Not having protection would also mean being pitched around which was not the case with Juan after the loss of Wright and Byrd. Pitchers were coming after him instead. For example, he struck out 21 times in his last 92 plate appearances with only five walks while sporting just a .143 batting average. He walked only 12 times in his last 222 plate appearances.

    If Juan was being pitched around then it is a question of him having a very poor batting eye along with terrible plate discipline. I do not think that is the case.

    As much as I do not believe Juan is the .300 hitter we saw in June and July, I do not at the same time believe he is the approximate .214 hitter we saw in August and September as well. But based on how he did slump badly his second go round, the projections for him by the scouts when in the minors and the problems brought to our attention on MMO, I can see why there is concern by the Mets that he would not be able hold his own with the bat to merit being the every day center fielder.

    My hope is that he could be a .240 hitter which is not desirable but, considering the extremely high talent he brings to center field and what that means in runs saved, that weakness could be resolved and that is why I say it is imperative the Mets acquire two other position hitters in order to compensate for the lack of Juan’s hitting. A lineup can deal with one or two poor hitters but if there are five to six (pitcher included) that makes for an anemic lineup despite the presence of genuine bats in the form of Wright, Granderson, Murphy and possibly Davis when facing right handed pitching (CY cannot hit right handed pitching). When facing left handed pitching the Mets will indeed be much strong because Chris Young’s bat then becomes a presence but the possible power hitting bat of Davis is now replaced by Satin. Yet last season they only started I believe 57 games all year against left handed pitching.

    d’Arnaud is still of unknown quantity so while he could help reduce the problem he cannot not resolve it. The Mets are two batters short of doing so. The batters were out there this off season. Being in the biggest market in the country with all the advantages we have over other clubs, there is no reason why the objective of our general manager had to be to get the payroll to be under $90 million. Not his fault – but reflective of the fact that Sterling Mets cannot retain ownership and expect to make the moves that other organizations would attempt as routine being in the position that we find ourselves in today regarding player personnel.

    Filling those holes within a modestly increased budget is what an organization concentrates on when the priority is indeed fully and genuinely focused on rebuilding the team and not dominated by talk of payroll concentration and payroll management with the goal being that of reducing payroll by such drastic measures. Again, that is nobody’s fault either, especially not that of the general manager, but at this stage of the game failing to recognize the first order of business is not the team but the drastic cost cutting steps necessary for the retaining of ownership by Sterling Mets – and that the second order of business after that is then the team – is to be in denial.

    For Juan Lagares would be our starting center fielder if attempts were made to fill those two pressing holes we have and we did land the types of players we were seeking.

  • Just_Da_damaja

    you mean the same one Beltran had ?

  • mad met

    Yes we can our payroll is 87 million there is room ..

  • Matt

    I agree. I think Lagares deserves the playing time and if Reyes was still here then the Mets would be looking much better going into next year with a set lead off guy and shortstop

  • elcorazon86

    I did not like the signing of Young at first but now I think it was a good sign. Looking at his stats, this guy can produce and last year he did have an injured shoulder. I would keep both Lagares and Young on the roster. I would not keep both Duda and Davis. One either gets traded or down to Triple A. This will all be sorted out in the next few weeks. Young will have to prove he can hit, especially right-handers. If he can’t, he will be platooned. Young might have been guaranteed at-bats but he will have to produce to stay on the field everyday. I am curious how Lagares and Young do this spring training.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Den Dekker is Mike Schmidt now? Jeez. If Den Dekker profiled as Mike Schmidt, I think we’d be having a different conversation.

    This org has a bajillion outfielders and they all have potential. It’s just throw a bunch of crap at the wall and see what sticks.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Yes, if Den Dekker had Mike Trout potential, we would give him a month, but he doesn’t.

  • METS62FAN

    MATT, ARGUABLY, REYES CERTAINLY WAS OUR BEST LEADOFF HITTER OVER TIME; HOWEVER LAGARES, IMO, HAS THE RAW MATERIALS BASED ON CAREER MINOR LEAGUE ACCOMPLISHMENTS TO PRODUCE AS REYES HAD AFTER RECEIVING CONCENTRATED COACHING IN HOW HE APPROACHES HIS AB. CONSIDER THESE MiLB CAREER STATS:
    PLAYER AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS
    REYES .287/339/424/763
    LAGARES .282/.322/.405/.727
    THAT’S CLOSE ENOUGH FOR ME; HOWEVER IN THEIR DEVELOPMENT YEARS BOTH WERE CONSIDERED “FREE SWINGERS” THE MLB DEIFF IN REYES WAS LEARNING TO BRIDLE THAT APPROACH WHICH IS WHERE THEY NEED TO REFINE LAGARES. YOU CAN IMPROVE A HITTER’S APPROACH; BUT NOT HIS SPEED AND LESS OFTEN HIS INSTINCTUAL DEFENSE.
    TO ME EY IS A 2B[ LIKE HIS FATHER] WHO CAN CAPABLY PLAY EACH OUTFIELD POSITION AS NEEDED, TO ME THAT’S THE PERFECT DEFINITION OF A HIGHLY VALUABLE BENCH OPTION
    CY,LAGARES,GRANDY IS YOUR MOST PRODUCTIVE OFFENSE & IMPENETRABLE DEFENSE. IMO, THE WINNING COMBO IF DUDA’S OUTFIELD STINTS ARE LIMITED TO NO MORE THAN HIS GETTING 2 AB IN A GAME WHERE THE SP APPEARS HIGHLY SUSCEPTIBLE TO DUDA’S SWING REGRDLESS OF SCORE, SITUATION OR OTHER CONSIDERATION, IMMEDIATELY AFTER DUDA’S 2ndf AB HE’S LIFTED FOR EY EITHER PURE DEFENSE IF DUDA MAKES OUT OR PR IF HE LANDS ON BASE.
    THART’S MY SOLUTION IF DUDA & DAVIS ARE BOTH MISTAKENLY ROSTERED SIMULTANEOUSLY, IF NOT I DON’T PARTICULARLY CARE HOW WALLY USES LUCAS.

  • Mets in Stitches

    I see EYJR finding his AB’s by playing 4 positions, spelling each outfielder and Murphy.

    If pitchers now bat eighth, Duda can hit lead-off (assuming he wins 1B from Ike.)

  • MetsFan

    I worry about not having a strong lead off hitter, but at the same time I worry more about not developing Juan Lagares. I think he has the potential to be the best defensive CF in the game and be an average/above average hitter. (he is very good at connecting with balls out of the zone) Personally, I’d rather see CY get a chance to show off his plus power potential, with EYJ coming off the bench to provide quick offense (bunt->steal->home). Also, I’m not totally against an EYJ-CY platoon depending on the team/pitcher we’re facing. It might be advantageous to have an EYJ against a strikeout pitcher up there bunting or chopping the ball while CY should be able to help with the power. My point, keep Lagares in the big leagues and figure out between CY and EYJ.

  • skyhappysal

    He was an expensive insurance plan – in case Lagares couldn’t hit. That and many GMs feel like you need 4 outfielder these days.

  • waldorf

    My point is not that den Dekker is another Mike Schmidt or Mike Trout. Would that he were. It’s that one month in the big leagues is too short a time sample to make a definitive judgment about his potential. He did hit .350 in his rookie season in the minor leagues, you know.

  • Super T

    Missed this reply in my e-mail, but a team that throws Lucas Duda into the outfield and Daniel Murphy at 2B is gonna pass on Jose Abreu at 1B because of defense? Really?