Can The Mets Win 85-90 Games In 2014?

mets spring training 2013 Wally Backman leads workout

Most analysts have the Mets already penciled into third or fourth place in the NL East for 2014. They are looking up and down at team rosters, giving their projections based on the players on those rosters. A roster is simply a list of names. It can’t tell you if a player is going to have an up year or a down year. It can’t tell you if a player is going to get injured or not. It can’t tell you if the guys on that roster have the heart and determination it takes to win a championship.

So while the analysts make their predictions based on names on a roster because those names are associated with “better” baseball ability, there is really no telling what can happen over the course of a 162 game season. 

With the loss of Matt Harvey for 2014, and the amount of question marks on the Mets roster, ESPN recently predicted the Mets to have one fewer win in 2014. It seems that many have less faith in the 2014 Mets than they did in the 2013 Mets.

How can that be?

Heading into 2013, the outfield was in dire straights and the Mets were entering the season on the heels of trading away 20-game winner, R.A. Dickey. Nobody projected Harvey to have the type of season he did, so how can anyone think that the Mets are just as bad or even worse off heading into 2014? It just isn’t true.

How can the Mets win 85-90 games in 2014 and quiet the doubters?

The same way teams have been winning games for over a century: with solid pitching, getting on base, and timely hitting. It doesn’t matter who is on the roster if the team can’t accomplish those things.

The Mets have to break the game down incrementally into it’s simplest form: innings. They have to treat each inning as if it is a mini-game. The goal is to win more innings than your opponent. Many think the Mets are obsessed with on base percentage—well, they are, but it’s for good reason. If nobody gets on base, how can a team score runs? The most fundamental aspect of scoring runs is first getting on base.

All but one team that made the playoffs was ranked in the top ten for on base percentage in 2013—the one team that wasn’t in the top ten was the Pittsburgh Pirates. Also, keep in mind that seven out of the top ten teams in the league in walks made the postseason in 2013. While the Mets’ team philosophy may not be seem like the best fit for the current players on the roster, they are right with regard to walks and on base percentage contributing to overall team success.

The Mets were tied for third in the major leagues with strike outs in 2013—1384 total. That number was good for one in every four at-bats. The Mets also had the sixth-lowest on base percentage in baseball last season (.306). If they are to be competitive in 2014, they have to turn this around.

Halfway through 2012, the Mets found themselves ranked in the top ten of the MLB Power Rankings.
Halfway through 2012, the Mets found themselves ranked in the top ten of the MLB Power Rankings.

How easily we forget that in 2012, the Mets were on pace at one point in the season to win over 80 games. They were winning games with solid pitching and timely hitting. That’s the classic recipe for winning baseball games. The Mets were ranked as high as ninth in the MLB Power Rankings and Mets fans started to believe that there could be a playoff run in the future. However, after the All-Star break, the team never did get back on track. I’m sure one of Terry Collins‘ goals in 2014 will be to get off to a hot start like the Mets did in 2012, but keep his team motivated and finish the season just as strong as it starts.

The Mets also received virtually no offensive output from the catcher position in 2013. In 2014, this trend should change. Travis d’Arnaud should be the starting catcher out of camp, and should easily be able to out-perform the Mets catchers from 2013. He will inject at least fifteen home runs into the lineup over the course of the season, and the healing process for the fans that were heart-broken after another disappointing 2013 season will begin.

If the Mets players play to their potential, they can be a very dangerous team. Don’t get me wrong, there are tons of question marks around this team. But if these guys come together, and we see Curtis Granderson and Chris Young return to form, Ike Davis get back to hitting bombs, David Wright and Daniel Murphy keep doing what they’re doing, Zack Wheeler and d’Arnaud take a step forward, and if the pitching staff can keep the Mets in games, we may have something special.

If the analysts projections were correct every year, then what would be the point of playing the season out? They could all save us a lot of time and hand out trophies based on rosters. However, this is not a contest for putting together the best roster on paper, this is about winning ball games. The Mets can win over 85 games in 2014 if they stick to the winning formula: solid pitching, getting on base, and timely hitting…oh, and stay healthy.

There is a lot to look forward to in 2014 as Mets fans. There are some exciting young prospects on the way and if the Mets stay healthy, they are going to sneak up on a lot of teams this year. This is going to be an exciting season of Mets baseball.

2014 New York Mets Prediction:

86-76, 2nd Place N.L. East

Presented By Diehards

  • BCleveland3381

    Ive said the Mets will be right around 80 wins this year. That’s me assuming an average season. Some things going in our favor and some things going against. If a few things go in our favor could we win 85? Absolutely. Could some things go against us and we end up with 75 wins? Absolutely.

  • Charley’s Twin

    No

  • mad met

    The question is can they win 75-80 wins … This is not a playoff line up.

  • TexasGusCC

    Last year they played the AL Central with some weaker teams. This year it’s the AL West, with only the Astros as weaker.
    Also, don’t forget who the manager is. He will lose more games than he steals.

  • EzRider

    Call me overly optimistic but i feel this team can and will win 85+ games this year and compete for a WC spot. They will sign Drew. They will sign a RP who will really help the pen. They will make a late season trade for a True Cleanup hitter at either 1st or RF. Think Crush, Encarnacion or Bautista with the outside chance of Cargo(Rockies). Oh and all of this will be done after TC and Dave Hudgens gets fired.

  • Captain America

    Mitch as I posted earlier – Harvey had only 26 starts.

    Wheeler and Niese even less.

    Hafner started almost as many as Harvey.

    So add colon instead of hafner, Niese and wheeler make up Harvey starts.

    And the depth at #5 take over for the marcum and other clowns who filled that role in 2013.

    Pitching will be better….

  • Dave Rosenbluth

    This piece and the responses here are exactly why these blogs were created and thrive.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Don’t you think you should wait until Collins named EY Jr. the everyday lead off hitter before bashing the move?

  • Captain America

    Are you a mets fan?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I don’t think this team as constituted will reach .500. However, my hope lies in guys like Syndergaard and Montero getting a chance to add some wins, steps forward from Lagares (if he plays), d’Arnaud and Tejada (I’m betting last season was an aberration).

    It’s 162 games. Can a ball be called fair that was foul or a ball be called a strike enough times for the Mets to find five or six extra wins? Maybe.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    What don’t you like about Collins?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    No, I can’t. Mainly because I don’t have that kind of time. But I can point to a no-hitter that went the Mets way because of a blown call.

  • bobblehead

    84 wins, 3rd place.

  • Connor O’Brien

    Overrated bust of a catcher? How is he a bust right now?

    Unproven second baseman? You mean Daniel Murphy?

    Lost cause at first base? If you put Satin/Duda’s numbers from last season into a platoon, you have a top 10 offensive first baseman.

    PED user over 40? Yeah, the one that had a 2.65 ERA last year.

    Strike out machine outfielder? Yeah, the one who hit 40 home runs twice.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Ok. Well, since you have the time, please go through all 162 games last season and tell me the Mets didn’t benefit ever from a blown call or a call that went their way.

    I don’t mean 5-6 wins from blown calls, I mean that a lot happens in 162 and luck can be the difference sometimes. Also, you’ll note I didn’t say the Mets were a .500 team, so don’t bother saying I’m an optimist.

  • T Boogy

    wow, those last 3 sentences are crazy optimistic. Can’t imagine we’ll be in playing for a WC spot AND have our manager fired.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Hahahaha. You discount luck and chance then predict 95 wins!? Wow.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Cerrone Is An Idiot
    • 3 minutes ago

    95-67 Second in Division.
    Should be able to grab the second wild card spot
    They will win the wild card game
    Then they will lose in NLDS.
    ?

  • Connor O’Brien

    It’s not just those two guys that are replacing the 26 starts from Matt Harvey and 5 months of Marlon Byrd. The entire outfield was upgraded, no? They didn’t just add one player. In the rotation, you add a guy in Colon that will make up for most of the production, and then for what’s left, you have more innings from Niese, Gee Wheeler, and the stud prospects coming up right now.

    First base, if platooned, is not as weak as people make it out to be. Duda and Satin make a very good platoon.

    The book is still out on d’Arnaud. You have to cut him some slack for a) being a rookie and b) being a rookie coming off a long injury.

    What Mitch is saying is definitely possible, especially if we get production from Syndergaard and/or Montero in the second half.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    ??

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Hmmm. Weird. Maybe a screenshot will help.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    ??

  • Captain America

    Why do you keep changing your name

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Hahaha. I’m pretending to be you? Wish I knew how to do that. Would be a nifty trick. What is this, “Hackers”?

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    Was and Atl should most deff finish above the mets, so that’s buts us in 3rd place at best.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Haha. He accused me of hacking his account and leaving comments under his name.

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    so we are better than wash or Atl???

  • mitchpetanick

    There are multiple ip addresses and emails using that name so I’m not sure if he’s just cloaking or someone is posting under his name.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Wow dude. That’s messed up.

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    Pardon the cliche, but that’s why they play the games. This should be an interesting season. However, for all of TC’s pronouncements, there will likely be numerous adjustments as events unfold…

  • Erin_II

    Not cool at all, dopey.

  • mitchpetanick

    Unacceptable … Consider yourself banished we don’t tolerate insults or racism on this site

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Very bizarre.

  • Erin_II

    You should be able to just block his IP, Mitch.

  • mitchpetanick

    Yes, we saw that

  • T Boogy

    If we had a manager like Francona or Showalter then I’d say 85-90 wins is a possibility. But we don’t. TC just doesn’t have the grit or moxie to be a manager.

  • omar minayass

    what do you like about collins?

  • Taskmaster4450

    It seems the mental midget from Bayonne is back.

  • omar minayass

    i don’t even know where to begin with this article. the fact that you posted a screenshot of their power rankings in 2012 (mid-year) is just an example of how you have absolutely no idea what has been going on with this team the past couple of years.

  • Denelor

    His in game management skills, his lineups, his insistence on playing veterans over young guys, even when the veterans can’t hit the ground with their feet.

  • mitchpetanick

    Really? And why is that so?

  • Jack

    I like to consider this upcoming season as the final transition to when we will be competitive again. That doesn’t mean we wont be competitive this season but I know we have a surplus of great pitching and this season is when we play the pitching to see who dominates to fit in the rotation with Harvey next season to make us have an incredible rotation and you can reluctantly trade the other SPs for big bats because every team needs pitching or you can keep some for depth.

    Unproven Pitchers with tons of upside that should be or are already on the team opening day.

    1) Wheeler (Will most definitely stay 2015 if he continues to form hopefully in to an ace like Harvey) [Great news is thats Harvey’s arm is healing and hopefully the surgery doesn’t impact his arm but he is a fighter and will probably be just fine]
    2) Mejia (not guaranteed to win but he is my and many peoples favorite to make the team and win the 5th spot this season, vastly talented and he showed very great command last season, hopefully he gets a full season under his belt before we judge what to do with him. I like him a lot)
    3) Syndergaard (One of the top pitching prospects in the game; AKA Thor, will almost definitely be in 2015 rotation because of his nasty stuff. Extremely confident he will be at the top of the rotation for years to come) Harvey, Syndergaard, and Wheeler in the same rotation gets me chills if they all hopefully and continue to reach their potentials.
    4) Montero (outstanding command according to many baseball sources but has a lower ceiling than Syndergaard but is more polished and should still be a really great pitcher. Scouting says he has great life on his fastball as well as other pitches and I wish him all the best.) Definitely can grow in to a terrific mid of rotation arm)

    We also have other good pitchers in a farm but I feel we can slot them in our bullpen or even give them a few starts or trade them.

    Proven solid pitchers (some can be traded (for hitting) to make room for our top pitching prospects but their is a risk if a prospect doesn’t pan out but they can make room for depth)

    1) Niese – a solid and reliable veteran lefty and could be a great teacher for the young guys. Finished last season very strong after a rocky start from his injury. He is the only lefty that we have that I trust to be in our rotation (Maybe Matz could eventually but he is unproven) [Always been a big fan of Niese and him being a lefty makes him a great pitcher for us]

    2) Gee – An incredible bounce back season after a really bad 1st half. That gem he pitched against the yankees at yankee stadium was the turning point and he never looked back. Watching him continue to develop will be really fun to watch this season. Logged in 199 innings (one short of his goal) and if he can throw 200 again he will be great for us.

    3) Colon – a 40 year old pitcher who was a good pick up by the Mets because he finished with one of the lowest ERAs in baseball (2.65) and had 3 Shutouts which was a career high for him so he can obviously pitch deep in to games despite his age and he dominates the strike zone with his great strike command. Games will go a lot faster with Colon pitching! The dimensions at citi will make this good fly ball pitcher hopefully that better if age doesn’t tire him.

    Mets have a ton to work with here with our great pitching depth. ( We even have Lannan (LHP) and Dice K (RHP). This is a positive overlook of these pitchers but it is a very realistic overlook. Whether you go with pitchers with tons of potential or the vet pitchers that are proven to pitch in the Bigs is up to the Mets but I say give our young guys a lot of innings in to give them growth in to the upcoming seasons. I wish every pitcher nothing but the best

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Collins’ problem is he’s had to juggle players non stop because the front office refuses to stick with someone. He’s juggled Ike and Duda at 1B for three years now and because the FO won’t choose one, he had to find playing time for both. I don’t believe for a second that any choices to play vets over rookies is Collins’ idea.

    Same goes with the outfield. They sign CY, want to keep EY and Lagares could be sent down. They want Flores, but he has no place to play, so he rides the bench.

    Any flaws with Collins starts first with what the FO gives him. The FO assembles the chess pieces and Collins has to play the game. The concept of the manager added any wins/losses is total baloney. The manager operates in real time. Fans live in hindsight.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I think he gets the most juice out of the rotten oranges the FO has given him.

    If there’s a manager you feel could bring this team as constituted to the playoffs, I’d love to hear who.

  • Taskmaster4450

    Anything is possible but to make any predictions at the beginning of Feb is a bit pre-mature. Let’s see what the team looks like leaving ST and how the other teams in the division stack up. The Phils, for example, are a lot tougher with Howard as opposed to not having him. Injuries play a bit part so the health of the division rivals, along with the Mets, is crucial.

    At this time, I am leaning towards an 84 win season but will hold off until we see what develops in PSL.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Not to mention, instead of call ups like Hefner, we can call up guys like Montero and Syndergaard.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Hahaha. What!? Totally unfair statement. How would they get any more out of this roster than TC?

  • T Boogy

    I like TC and his reputation for helping young players. But you can’t deny the track record of Tito or Buck or other quality managers and what they’ve done to turn teams around. TC just oozes with self-doubt and anxiety and I feel that carries over to the team.

  • BehindTheBag

    How does benching young players help them, exactly? Because by my eyes, that’s how TC has been dealing with our young guys.

  • sperry

    It’s simple really. Those predictions are based on what players have done, not what they may do. If we have best-case scenario play out with guys like Lagares, Davis, Tejada, Duda, etc, yea, we can win over 80 games. Everything with the Mets’ success is if this and if that, to a greater extent than the average team. We’re talking about complete uncertainty at every position but second and third base. And you wonder why the analysts don’t think very highly of this team?

    I promise you, not everything is going to go right.

  • Matlack

    There’s still an off-season to conclude, and Spring training to play, so I’ll hold off on a prediction, but like you, I have guarded optimism. I see Washington bouncing back strong as a 90+ win team, Atlanta around .500, and Miami leap-frogging Philly to escape the cellar. A Mets club with TDA and Wheeler improving, Drew at short, with Tejada starting 40 games against lefties at ss/2b could be an improved club. So I’ll wait for that news to develop.

  • chago

    “If the Mets players play to their potential, they can be a very dangerous team. Don’t get me wrong, there are tons of question marks around this team. But if these guys come together, and we seeCurtis Granderson and Chris Young return to form, Ike Davis get back to hitting bombs, David Wright and Daniel Murphy keep doing what they’re doing, Zack Wheeler and d’Arnaud take a step forward, and if the pitching staff can keep the Mets in games, we may have something special.”

    So what your saying is that everything has to go right for us to be something ?

    I have one response to that :

    Murphy’s Law

  • T Boogy

    I was referring to when he was minor league coordinator. And to some extent he does give the young guys a fair chance. But he is so caring and passionate that I think he tries too much to protect them from failure.

  • SRT

    I think it’s a little too early to predict how many games the Mets will win this season.
    Let’s see what the team looks like coming out of ST.

  • chago

    Fred and Jeffy called and gave him a prediction to post on THEIR blog !

  • Anthony

    Haha I got a bridge to sell you

  • BehindTheBag

    Is the full moon out?

  • BehindTheBag

    Basically we have to flip a coin 10 times and have it come up heads each time.

    LGM!

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    They turned teams around with far more talent than the Mets put on the field. To say Buck or Tito would add 15 wins to this team is insane.

  • BehindTheBag

    I’m curious, what do paint chips taste like?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    ??

  • Matt Mosher

    Jesus….get real people. Incredible the power of spring training. It really is. I hope I’m wrong, but this is a 78 win team, tops.

  • If everything breaks right in 2014, the Mets are a .500 team. Since we’re the Mets, everything won’t break right. Also injuries are going to happen. As constructed, I have us winning 74 games. I hope I’m wrong because 74 wins is just another really bad year.

  • Andrew Herbst

    I think if everything breaks right, we could contend for the 2nd wc spot. A lot of things need to happen such as Ike bouncing back, TDA starting to hit, and our rotation stepping up.

  • DrDooby

    Even if
    it´s tough to believe for Mets fans, the reason for rather modest projections
    for 2014 is the lack of trust that analysts have in the – mostly unproven – Mets
    pitching staff.

    The
    Fangraphs ZIPS projection is a good indicator for that. The entire projected
    opening day pitching staff (i.e. rotation of Niese – Colon – Wheeler – Gee –
    Mejia) projects to combine for a mere total of an 8 fWAR. Which is by far the
    worst projected pitching staff in the divisision, well behind the Marlins &
    Phillies (both 13 fWAR), Braves (20 fWAR) and Nationals (21 fWAR).

    Meanwhile,
    the Mets´ projected offense is a lot closer towards contender status at a
    combined 19 fWAR, well ahead of the Marlins (12 fWAR) and Phillies (15 fWAR)
    and barely behind the Braves (20 fWAR) and Nationals (23 fWAR).

    And if you
    look back into the rear view mirror (something all projection systems heavily
    rely on), the Mets offense averaged 634.5 runs between 2012 & 2013 – with
    very similar rosters except for Marlon Byrd replacing Scott Hairston and the C
    position being in flux and CF traditionally unsettled. The Phillies averaged
    647 runs (in a hitter friendlier park), the Marlins averaged a terrible 561
    runs, the Nationals 693.5 and the Braves 694. So, the Mets were 60 runs away
    from leading the division in runs scored. Since 1 win takes 10 runs scored or
    not allowed, the Mets were about 6 wins away on offense from contending for the
    division crown.

    Meanwhile,
    the pitching was a lot further away at an average of 696.5 runs allowed.

    The Nats –
    on average – allowed 610 runs while the Braves merely allowed 574 runs. So, the
    Mets were between 86.5 and 122.5 – thus on average 104.5 runs or 10+ wins – off the league lead. Even the Marlins (685
    runs allowed) were better and the Phillies – in a much tougher homepark –
    allowed only 714.5 runs on average – 28 more than the Mets staff´s averaged.

    Scott
    Hairston (2012) & Marlon Byrd (2013) now get replaced by Curtis Granderson
    while Travis d´Arnaud takes over at C for Josh Thole (2012) and John Buck
    (2013). CF remains unsettled but now features Juan Lagares & Chris Young as
    the main options instead of the revolving door of 2013 and Kirk Nieuwenhuis
    & Andres Torres in 2012. The rest of the roster essentially returns, though
    it appears only one of Duda & Ike Davis will play regularly. All in all, if
    d´Arnaud is better than Buck & Thole were while the CF also produce more,
    expecting the 2014 Mets to score at least 650 runs seems reasonable and thus a
    gain of 1 or 2 wins as it is, not expecting any breakouts from Ike or Tejada or
    regression from Wright / Murphy.

    But it all
    comes down to the pitching. If the Mets staff gives up 695 or more runs again –
    and thus on average 100 more than the Nats & Braves figure to give up –
    they won´t make up the difference. If the Mets give up 50 runs less by pitching
    better, that´s good for 5 wins and a .500 season overall (650 RS vs. 645 RA).
    If the Mets give up 100 runs less by pitching much better – both in the
    rotation and bullpen – they would make up another 5+ games and would project to
    end up right around 86 or 87 wins. And if you happen to like the depth that the
    Mets will finally have on both their pitching staff (Montero, Syndergaard,
    young relievers, etc) and offensively (mainly Flores but also some fringy
    outfielders like Nieuwenhuis & MDD), the upside may even be a little higher
    compared to the 2012 and 2013 teams that both lacked quality depth behind the
    regulars.

    To
    summarize, the Mets figure to have a middle of the pack offense in 2014 and
    going forward. Which isn´t too bad, considering that CitiField plays about
    neutral to slightly pitcher friendly. If the pitching remains below average
    like it has been in 2012 and 2013, the Mets won´t crack .500 and certainly
    won´t contend. If the young arms perform and the veterans remain solid, this is
    the big area of upside – both rotation & bullpen – where the Mets could
    improve significantly.

    To answer the question:

    Yes, the Mets can win 85 to 90 games if the pitching really improves…

  • I think everything has to break their way to pull it off, but it’s possible.

  • omar minayass

    true, but that doesn’t make him a good manager. keep in mind collins has not managed a single meaningful game in late august & september during his mets tenure. that’s the time when you can make arguments for/against managers. not when he’s babysitting a team of schlubs & hand-holding a bunch of quad-A players. his biggest accomplishment is having his players “not quit on the season” the past 2 septembers. and based on the results, i don’t even know how you could argue that was successful.

    and are we talking about managers currently employed? or candidates that are available? i’m pretty sure i could name about a dozen managers off the top of my head that could outperform collins.

  • trevordunn

    yes if they extend the season to 200 games

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Hasn’t managed a meaningful game in Aug. or Sept.? You could say the team hasn’t lasted long enough to play a meaningful game in Aug. or Sept, no? Not all TC’s fault.

    “…not when he’s babysitting a team of schlubs & hand-holding a bunch of quad-A players.”

    That seems like an argument in support of Collins, no?

    Ok. I’ll take that dozen names of managers currently unemployed who could take THIS TEAM to 90 wins.

  • T Boogy

    I can agree with you to some extent. But, just like stud players, a stud manager can mean an additional 6-8 wins a year. But TC has had his moments so maybe he’ll become a stud this year.

  • metsman

    I’ve never been as unsure as I am about this season. I am usually pretty optimistic but I have no idea what to predict. To be fair, I don’t think the Nationals should be counting their eggs either, they might be in better shape than us, but not by much.

  • BehindTheBag

    We are definitely winning between 60 and 95 games. No doubt about it.

  • Endy10

    this is a very flawed analysis. not that i don’t want any of it to happen, but you said the mets got no production from the catcher spot, and that d’arnaud will inject 15 homers into the team immediately. i guess we’re forgetting buck’s power (very low average, i know), but d’arnaud is still unproven at the plate. realistically we can expect him to replace what buck brought. also, you said “if ike, granderson, and chris young return to form.” what are the odds of ike/young returning to form? i believe ike can, i believe granderson will, but i have no faith in young until he shows something.

    A lot of this is based on everything going perfectly, and the mets are still an 85 win team at best. realistically that should translate to about 75, b/c nothing ever seems to go perfect for the mets

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    So we are better than was or atl in your idea?

  • Endy10

    it seems like collins is more likely to try something exotic in hopes of catching lightning in a bottle than he is to just play the 8 best players every day. When the team isn’t very good, this can work to jumpstart things, but it doesn’t for the mets b/c terry’s crazy moves are just crazy, not crazy enough to work though

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    Thats a good way of looking at it, but i wouldnt say 10 times. Lets see, rf, 1b, ss, c, cf, hmmm id say 5 times

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    Tc isnt helping anyone

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    You do realize that you live in a world where you are able to second guess every move TC makes because you know the result? It’s all hindsight.

    Give me an example of a “stud manager”? Your statement about managers adding 6-8 wins is insane. How can a guy that doesn’t swing the bat or throw a ball possible have that much of an effect? Miguel Cabrera was worth seven wins last year. You’re saying a manager has the same amount of impact? Jeez man.

  • Endy10

    that depends on how you feel on chris young, duda, etc.

    i’m not sold on duda, young tejada or ike. although i trust ike and tejada a bit more than the other 2.

    And honestly (not directed at you specifically but) why does everyone think a satin/duda platoon is so great? duda has shown very little except raw power and the ability to watch strikes go by each ab. satin’s a good bench piece, but not too much more.

    The mets bank on too many unknowns every year and then when not enough good luck comes their way, they have a disappointing season. I want to be optimistic too, but it’s the same crap every year, just rearranged and with a couple new pieces

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Well that’s a vague statement that demonstrates nothing.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Managed a lot of major league games have you? What are some of these “crazy moves” that are “just not crazy enough to work”?

  • Endy10

    i understand to a certain extent that some of this is on the wilpons/alderson but:

    how about saying eyj is his leadoff hitter in january, even if it means getting their best defensive cf out of the way for him and chris young?

    or if you don’t like that one, how about his misuse of the bullpen every game?

    or his inability to stick with a consistent lineup (this one is a bit more b/c of the players, but it’s much more difficult to get production when you aren’t playing consistently, which is why i’m hesitant on platoons)

    not to mention how much he loves his lefty/right matchups. there’s obviously some science to that, but terry doesn’t critically think. he just goes by his gut on who he thinks will come up big, instead of making an informed decision based on who is best in a given situation

    and no i’ve never managed a major league game, but thanks for that response, your sarcasm was not appreciated.

  • Endy10

    oh and the worst one i forgot: his propensity to play veterans over the young guys. i’m sure this also (at least partially) comes from the front office, but if terry is so desperate for a job that he has to blindly listen to the higher ups without any input, then he isn’t that good of a manager to begin with

  • T Boogy

    http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2012/3/28/2908044/manager-wins-above-expectancy

    Their WAR, like that of players, will vary from year to year, but I really do believe that some managers just ‘get it’ while some do not. You can’t always just chalk it up to the players on the team.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Yes, he said EY was the leadoff hitter…in January…when asked. If they asked in Spring Training after he’s had a chance to see people actually play and show they can do the job, he might have given a different answer. And right now, in January, he’s right.

    Misuse of the bullpen…in every game? He misused the bullpen in every. single. game? That’s a heck of an overstatement.

    I’m sure he’d love to have a consistent lineup if he had consistently performing players and didn’t have Alderson breathing down his neck to carry certain players.

    Matchups are all about hindsight for fans. When it works out, Collins is a genius. When it doesn’t, he’s a fool. “He should have brought in…” as if som other player would have done better and he could have known that.

    The idea that there is a clear person “who is best” is just silly and you’re only able to criticize because it’s hindsight.

  • EzRider

    It’s the only way i can be any more. Overly optimistic. Otherwise it really make no sense for me to even watch and be a fan of this team anymore.

    I’m most likely setting myself up for disappointment but i’d rather go into ST and the season with joy, elation and hope as opposed to doom, gloom and nay saying. IMHO.

    I’ll add even more crazy to all this. TC and Huggies will be fired because the team is playing less than inspired and not up to expectations and Teufel will be promoted to Interim Manager while the Mets will bring Mookie in to be the 3rd Base coach and promote someone from within to be the new hitting coach. These few changes will fire the team up as will promotions of prospects and a trade or two.

  • omar minayass

    no, it’s not all TC’s fault. but that doesn’t remove all the blame off his shoulders.

    babysitting & hand-holding is exactly what TC is here to do, not win games. i don’t know how that supports collins. if the mets were serious about WINNING, do you really think they’d have collins still here?

    and…i said outperform collins, not managers who can get this team to win 90 games lol, that’s just rediculous. those people don’t exist. i can tell you the people the mets overlooked this past season that i believe to be better candidates for this team. some are employed, some aren’t.

    brad ausmus
    wally backman (obvious name)
    anyone on the diamondbacks coaching staff
    billy heywood
    jimmy dugan
    george knox

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    So, looking at this one person’s theory, I see a long list of managers who have managed teams far better than what TC has had the past four years.

    Joe Torre is the leading man in WAR? Wow. Really? When TC has the 1998 Yankees, call me.

    You can’t chalk it all up to players on the team, that’s true. But I can chalk up basically all of it. If the players were revolting against TC or complaining about him, you could say there was a mental impact, but they like him.

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    Maybe we have to look at TC as a modern day Casey Stengel, taking on the lightning rod role. Different personality, of course, but not really, after all he’s been known to utter a head-scratcher or two. One telling consideration is that there doesn’t seem to be an overabundance of veiled comments coming from the players regarding his overall performance. Will he take us to the promised land? Most likely not, but you never know. Casey wasn’t viewed that highly prior to 1949…

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    The fact that half of those are fictitious proves my point. Thank you.

    So how many wins would the Mets have won last season with Backman and Ausmus, respectively?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    When you’re able to say the Mets have under-performed with Collins, then we can talk about a different manager coming in. But so far, a crap roster has produced crap results.

  • Connor O’Brien

    This platoon comes from Duda’s numbers against RHP last year, not necessarily optimism that he will improve. Satin has always hit LHP well. Remember, we’re not asking him to be an everyday player, only a starter when there is a LHP on the mound.

    Young is a great bounce back candidate who before this year played at an All-Star level three years in a row. He will strike out and hit for a low average, but he will do just about everything else right.

    As for Tejada and Ike, I don’t like having Tejada as the everyday shortstop, and I dislike even more the idea of Ike Davis having a spot on this team. That being said, it’s not like there has never been a team with one or two major holes that finished a few games over .500…

  • trevordunn

    1B will be a disaster with Duda or Ike. SS is an absolute NIGHTMARE. After Chris Young bombs out, then its EY for 500 ABs which is a mess. Lagares is unproven…this lineup looks awful…did we mention the bullpen has no setup men? and a closer coming off a SEVERE neck injury?

  • ColoradoMetsFan

    Certainly, Casey Stengel’s managerial performance speaks to that, and he’s just one example. Talent can overcome any number of managerial shortcomings. By the same token, those same shortcomings can sabotage a talented team. In TC’s case, it’s unclear, at least when viewed by his recent experience…

  • omar minayass

    seriously? power rankings from 2012? that’s your argument to prove that this team will turn it around in 2014?

    meanwhile, that team was mainly constituted of all omar’s players that sandy couldn’t wait to flip for his beloved prospects and veteran journeymen. i hate to give minaya credit & rarely do, but at least the guy recognized talent (to a certain extent).

    where are those prospects now? where is sandy’s homegrown talent? don’t tell me wheeler, the guy has a handful of starts in the big leagues & hasn’t proven anything yet, along w/ a majority of the team. he hasn’t been able to develop anyone & you know it. d’arneau? don’t think about it. take a look at how many games the guy has missed in his minor league career. the team is a joke, the philosophies are a joke, the financial situation is a joke. the only bright spots in 2014 are daniel murphy who i would bet my bottom dollar is not on the team come august 1st, & david wright: the player who wasted the prime of his career slugging along in the biggest small-market in the world.

  • BCleveland3381

    Or Ike or Duda could take a step forward, Tejada’s 2012 season was an aberration and he plays back to his 2010 and 2011 seasons, Chris Young doesn’t bomb out, and Lagares proves himself. Maybe Parnell is healthy, and Vic Black ends up being a good set up man. Will all this happen? Of course not, but lets stop with the end of the world scenarios here. Yeah, you’re right, if NOTHING goes in our favor, this season will be a nightmare. The chances of that happening are slim to none.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    LOL@Mets OVER .500

    Hehehehehe

    One can dream….but too bad I suspect we are in for a NIGHTMARE….

    Hopefully Im wrong but, there it is HOPE!

    No CONFIDENCE(and for good reason)

  • Jake Jones

    I hate to say it but our fanbase has to be one of the worst. Do i expect to win 90 games? No i dont but i do expect the mets to be better this year. hell we seemt o have more faith is other teams fans than our own lol

  • Captain America

    Teddy the exterminator!

    Like it

  • trevordunn

    you sound like sandy…so after 2 years of horrific production, Duda, Ike and Tejada are ready to be stars? lol…they should be in another organization..the fact they are still here is an absolute disgrace.

  • Andrew Herbst

    I think the division will be tough, but we have a shot at a wild card berth.

  • Connor O’Brien

    There is hope for everything. Nothing is guaranteed for any baseball team.

    Dodgers fans hope to make the playoffs. Nationals fans hope to be above .500.

  • Endy10

    it can happen. all i’m saying is that the mets bank on this every year and it never does actually happen. a better strategy would be to go out and make it happen, not hope that everything falls to you.

    Also, chris young hasn’t performed well since 2010, in terms of BA, obp, rbi, sb, hr, etc. that 7.5 mil could have gone to a number of upgrades anywhere else. we have enough outfielders b/w eyj (if you’re sold on him, which i’m not fully yet), lagares, and granderson.

    the difference b/w a guy like young/eyj and lagares is that you basically know what you have in the youngs, and at best CY nets you a prospect if he plays well, who may or may not pan out at the deadline, yet terry feels the need to play him over lagares, who would be a star for years if he breaks out.

    Personally, I think the mets have some good pieces, but not in the right places, which is why it’s difficult to believe in them. How does sandy sign two OF’s when we already have lagares and eyj, yet completely ignore ss and 1b?

    with regards to duda, i have never seen anything from him that convinces me he will provide anything in the majors, other than occasional power. Satin, as i said, could be a good bench piece, but i feel he’d get overexposed if he played too much. a platoon could work, but most good teams would just go out and improve instead.

    as for tejada and ike, i’m obviously not sold on them either, but i think they provide the biggest upside considering what we have. Ike’s actually shown success in the big leagues, unlike duda, and tejada had more success in 2011/2012, when he had more ab’s and more playing time, as opposed to last year when he was hurt and in the minors. also, his attitude last year was terrible when he was given the job, as has been documented by everyone, so i’m willing to give him another chance if he’s truly tearing up fat camp like everyone says.

    i don’t get to see these players with my own eyes in person, so i’m sure we won’t agree on everything, but the mets seem to run this team like a hedge fund instead of an actual baseball team. They don’t care about maximizing results, just minimizing risk

  • omar minayass

    don’t thank me, i didn’t prove your point.

    i could have named 90% of the other managers that are currently employed, but i simply don’t want to waste my time proving a point to someone who thinks TC is a good manager.

    the point is, there are players like brad ausmus, matt williams, kirk gibson, mike matheny etc. guys who were hard nosed baseball players by trade, & know how to light a fire under a mediocre team. take one look at that diamondbacks roster & tell me how they look any different on paper than a team like the mets.

    why didn’t the mets grab clint hurdle back in 2011? he had a proven track record with a team of nobodies in colorado, heck he took them to the world series! AND! he had ties to the mets! why didn’t we make him our manager? because sandy knew hurdle would give him problems down the road in regards to roster development.

    if terry collins is your man for the job, then congrats. i hope you have some fun in the pepsi porch this year. not for me, i’m done with this franchise until they can prove to me they are serious about winning.

    thank you.

  • CyYout

    Forty four experts made predictions for the 2013 season and NOT ONE had the Red Sox winning the AL East, let alone the ALCS, and World Series. Only four experts had them making the playoffs at all as one of the two wild cards. You just never know, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable the Mets could finish over .500 in 2014 and compete for a wild card.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/preview13/story/_/page/13expertpicks/espn-expert-team-predictions-2013-baseball-season

  • Connor O’Brien

    Where are the prospects now? They’re coming.

    Why would you expect results with prospects within a year or two?

    It’s odd that you think the only bright spots when we have David Wright still in his prime, Daniel Murphy, two new sluggers coming in, Niese and Gee pitching well last year, Wheeler having a good half season, numerous top prospects on the cusp of making an impact… There is a lot more than just one bright spot.

  • Endy10

    ok well if he isn’t sure, he should say “we like eric, but we’re not guaranteeing anything yet b/c it’s january” he did the same thing with brad emaus when he was here in 2011, and colin cowgill last year.

    I’m not going to break down every single pitch of every game, but i understand your snarky response, to which i’ll rephrase what i said about the bullpen: terry consistently misuses the bullpen, and it costs us games. if you don’t see that, then you aren’t watching close enough.

    i agree, he doesn’t have solid players, and the team jerks around it’s players too much, and after factoring in injuries, it’s difficult to stay consistent. But terry moves players around the lineup way too much, one example is murphy. Obviously it’s the manager’s call, but murph is clearly more comfortable as the 2 hitter and performs better there, yet collins tries him in the 3 and 5 spots and now there are talks of him leading off. why the team feels like messing with one of their few constants is beyond me.

    Obviously matchups are about hindsight, and to an extent it comes down to who is on the team, but terry constantly overuses his bullpen in an effort to get one out, instead of trying to use the best guy for a certain inning. instead of burning 3 guys in one inning, he should be focusing on the best guy for the inning. obviously it doesn’t always work out, but it’s not all hindsight as you assume

  • Joey D.

    Hi Mitch.

    I wish I had something substantial rather than just “hopes” based on what if’s that things could be looking up for us. There is so much potential with this team that because the focus is on keeping Sterling Mets as ownership that potential is being undermined by nothing being done to help foster it.

    Yes, the team played one game above .500 the last 99 games of the season and that indeed is something that they could build on going into 2014 despite Harvey being out for the year. But let look at how that was achieved and the problem of why doing nothing this winter is going to short circuit anything good from that.

    They were at their hottest point in June, July and early August. Why?

    It was due to Eric Young Jr., after coming over from the Rockies playing every day and for two months putting up numbers he had been unable to sustain for a full season in any of his prior years as a major leaguer. That became the case with the Mets as well as his production began to drop considerably, he came back down to earth and now we do not really know what his role will be with the team heading toward spring training.

    The Mets also had a great July put together by Marlon Byrd – the best month in an overall consistently well played (PED enhanced) season – when he hit .336 and drove in 20 runs. He is no longer on the team and though Granderson is his replacement, Curtis is going to be the better power hitter no doubt but not the dependable hitter when it is a case of just needing a base hit. That is the difference between having a .285 hitter and a .245 hitter in the lineup everyday.

    June and July was also when Juan Lagares hit .312. We cannot expect him to do anything near that over a full season – just his glove (and what a glove). And now there is talk about him starting out the season in Las Vegas?

    Now, it is true, we lost David Wright on August 2nd but let us look at the period in which the Mets played their best ball of the year – it began at the start of those final 99 games of the season: June15 through August 11. That was a stretch of 65 games when they were at full strength (with David only missing maybe the last seven or eight games). They went from 24 -39 (15 below .500) to 54-61 (7 below.500), sporting a record of 30-22 for a third of the season. If stretched out that could translate to a 90-66 record with six games remaining. Very optimistic right – with Colon taking up some of the slack left by Harvey – even if we don’t look for such lofty hopes as 90 wins. As said, David was injured which stopped that .577 clip from continuing.

    But was it really just the loss of David that curtailed our scoring? Or was it CYJ and Lagares also coming down to earth along with Byrd being sent to Pittsburgh the latter part of the month?

    Was it due to the hole left by Matt Harvey? Well, our overall starting pitching for September/October actually performed better than it did in July when Harvey was there and we were in the midst of playing our best ball of the season. Or was it due to the bullpen falling flat, way beyond just the loss of Parnell? Overuse by TC?

    And so can we really rest on our laurels from 2013 and use them as a springboard – or instead look at them as warning signs that the only reason we did so well for a third of a season (and finished a game above .500 for the last 99) was because two regulars were playing beyond their proven capabilities and eventually came down to earth and that the third person involved is no longer on the club (his bat only being replaced and that being a trade of base hits for power).

    The right approach was to appreciate both – use 2013 as a springboard and as a warning sign at the same time. Rest upon the laurels of our strengths, recognize the short-term only moves that made us play so well for that certain period of time and thus seek out the established type players who could sustain those same type performances but over the course of a few seasons and not a few months (which would allow us to keep Lagares in center as well).

    Have we added anything in that time to improve the areas that need improvement? Yes, Granderson. Then one could cite the coming of d’Arnaud in his sophomore season as one hope. A comeback by Davis (or Murphy moving over to first and Flores taking over at second) as a second. A return to playing shape and form by Tejada as a third. Chris Young? A hope he returns to 2010 form (despite being aided by playing in Arizona, his since decline, his extremely low batting average, high strikeouts and complete inability to hit right handed pitching which has already been discussed in detail) as a fourth.

    That’s not adding – that’s hoping.

    I would have hoped for the Mets to have been adding instead. Then, 85 to 90 wins – with the pitching (both already on the roster and coming up this season), defense (keeping Lagares in center) and adding to the few established hitters we have and the hopeful coming of d’Arnaud – would not have been just a hope but a real possibility. If it comes down to those additions not being enough this season, then as said before, it’s not going to get any better in 2015 or 2016 either.

  • BehindTheBag

    Don’t forget Parnell (health), Mejia (health), Colon (41 freakin’ years old) and Wheeler (17 big league starts)

  • ro7a

    I laugh at reference to Tejada’s 10 and 11 seasons. They werent that good either. Tejada at his best is awful.

  • BCleveland3381

    2 years of horrific production? 2 years ago Ike had 32 HR and 90 RBI. Two years ago Tejada hit .289 with a .333 OBP, and played solid defense.
    I said Ike could take a step forward and Tejada could play back to his 2011 season. They could be league average players. I never said they would be stars. Stop exaggerating.

  • BCleveland3381

    Plus defense, a .285+ average, and an OBP in the mid .300’s is fine for a SS. Saying he was awful at his best is ridiculous.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    The rumors of Murphy leading off are coming from fans. I haven’t heard Terry say anything about that.

    And when the team isn’t going well, you move things around, try new things, not stay complacent and hope it works out. Maybe when you have All Stars all over the place you run the same lineup out every day. But when you’re forced to mix and match and run out AAAA players, you have to try new things.

    And for what it’s worth, Murphy had by far the majority of his ABs from the no. 2 spot, so he’s not a very good example.

    Bullpens are hit or miss every season. The guys you’re probably wishing he had used or not used could easily have come in and blown it. But you’re able to say he should have done this or that because of the times it didn’t work out, ignoring the times it did. And saying “Well, Terry should have said…” is silly and pointless.

  • RyanF55

    Sure the Mets can win 85 games. Did anyone think Oakland would 94 games in 2012 and 96 in 2013? How about the 2013, 92 win, wild card playoff play-in game-losing Cleveland Indians? The point is any team can conceivably compete in this game. The sarcastic fan in me laughs at that notion, but it still holds true for the Mets. If the “big-ifs” fulfill themselves – i.e. Granderson, Young, d’Arnaud, Tejada, Davis/Duda(whoever the hell’s at 1st) all actually produce, the starting rotation coming through, the bullpen shutting things down….then the Mets certainly can compete. It will take a bunch of things to fall their way, young players to step-up and some players to find their talent again. So yes, its a long shot. Still, there’s a faint chance at a winning season.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Hard to sit on a consistent lineup when you’re forced to run out AAAA players every day. Managers with All Stars at every position can run the same lineup out every day. Managers with Mets talent have to do anything to spark some offense.

    I mean, for god’s sake TC had to drop Ike to sixth, bat Murphy lead off, Duda fourth and put Rick Ankiel…RICK ANKIEL… in the lineup last season because the offense was so terrible…in MAY!

    No manager can work with that slop.

    And who did he throw under the bus last season, or ever?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Kirk Gibson? Mike Matheny? Look at the talent those guys have on their teams! Are you kidding me? I should hope those guys do win. My god.

    And I never said TC was a good manager, but there aren’t many people who could come in and win more with this talent. In fact, I’ll say there is no manager who would take this roster, as is, to even .500.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    What collapses? You mean when TC was managing the Angels?

    He’s been pretty candid about that. He lost the clubhouse and the players revolted. But he hasn’t lost the clubhouse here and they haven’t collapsed here because they’ve never even been in a position to collapse, mainly because they’re a bad team.

  • Name

    Don’t you think that Sandy’s insistence on getting prospects in trades in exchange for veterans shows that he wants prospects and wants to play them over his veterans? The insistence on playing the vets is all on Collins.

  • They’re definitely better than last year (on paper). The staff (1 – 10) is better. The 5 outfielders are better as a group offensively and defensively. Ike and Duda are a wash at 1st. Maybe Tejada improves a little.
    That’s gotta be worth a few more wins at least.

  • mitchpetanick

    It was used to show anything can happen and this team should not be given a death sentence before spring training even starts.

  • Alex68 (Ch)

    86-76??????
    Hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha Hahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha

  • mitchpetanick

    For everyone who doesn’t think the Mets have a chance this year, what exactly are you rooting for? Are you hoping the team fails? I’m confused…Seems like a lot of fans have already decided the season is over before it starts. Anything can happen. It’s a long season with a lot of twists and turns.

    I apologize to everyone for trying to inject some optimism into the fan base…I didn’t realize so many people would be offended by this post.

  • Bail4Nails

    We talk about OBP and “timely hitting”, yet we keep drooling over HR potential. You know what comes with HR potential? 100+ strikeout potential! I don’t get it. Even if your name is Ike or Grandy, stop striking out. You want to swing for the fences early in the count? Go ahead. But with 2 strikes, shorten your swing, and just make contact. This is Little League stuff, and it kills us every year. It’s no wonder the fans want Flores at Shortstop, the kid puts the bat on the ball. Maybe that should be the new “hitting philosophy”.

  • Captain America

    What’s the over/under

  • omar minayass

    i’m sorry, but i wholeheartedly disagree. i don’t define a bright spot as a “what if” situation. the bright spots on this team are individuals who have actually proven something in their major league careers. i won’t consider wheeler a bright spot on this team until he proves he can stay healthy, & consistently develop over the course of the next year.

    this is an annual occurrence with this team; constantly striving towards the future while the now is completely wasted. until they can walk the walk & shutup about it, i will remain skeptical. i’m tired of it.

  • omar minayass

    i will agree with you that grandy is a solid addition, but merely will replace byrd’s numbers from last year. chris young? no way.

  • omar minayass

    that’s very true. but, considering all the factors you mention that have to come into play in 2014, it seems rather impossible. especially given this organizations track record.

  • Mitch I appreciate the post and it’s attempt to make a case for the possibility of winning the number of games mentioned. I welcome your optimism at a time where rooting for the Mets or openly expressing optimism is just an open invitation for either mock laughs or being called blind or a lover of anything other than the Mets.

    I star this post for it’s optimism.

  • omar minayass

    i give up.

  • Fonzie

    Mitch let them blow it outta their collective asses. Nothing wrong with looking at the glass half full. Most of the half empty people have their heads so far up their asses that they can’t see what’s happening with this franchise. Good times ahead!

  • ro7a

    no speed, no power, and average to mediocre defense. His defense has never been plus.

  • Jake Jones

    Our fanbase is pretty bad

  • BCleveland3381

    I’ve been saying I really think Granderson got HR happy in Yankee stadium. He saw that short left field porch and just tried to yank everything over it. I think he’ll back off from that approach with the Mets. We’ll likely see a decrease in HRs, but hopefully his AVG increases and Ks drop a little too. He’ll never be a great hitter for AVG, but Im hoping for .260, 28+HR 100RBI.

  • Jack

    A lot of mets fans are still looking in the past thinking that there is never hope for this franchise. I appericate that people like you Mitch are trying to change that. There is definitely realistic hope for the franchise because of all the young talent we have in our farm system and some those players are already up in the majors. Young power pitching is what will primarily help us get to the top really soon. We didn’t win really anything when the mets were trying to build from the top now by spending but now we have a great core of guys the mets got and gotta watch them develop and then we can surround those young guys with great hitters from FA. There is always the question will the Wilpons spend. They did spend this offseason even though it wasn’t a lot compared to a big league market. The wilpons did spend cash in the past but it was money they were making from Madoffs so they had tons of flexibility but now lets hope they are willing to spend their money they make from Sterling Equities on scouts and players that can make us competitve on the long term. If they don’t they should sell the team.

  • BCleveland3381

    Still not awful. He’s a SS, not a 1B.

  • BCleveland3381

    There are a good number of people here that root for the team to fail, no doubt about it. Some people just enjoy being miserable and would rather predict the demise of this team and be right than watch this team win and be wrong about it.

  • Connor O’Brien

    Annual occurrence? You mean for the past three years right? Normally, it takes 5-7 years to rebuild and it looks like its taking less than that with this team.

    You’re not going to get proven pieces (although we have more than just Murphy and Wright –> Gee and Niese, Granderson, Colon) because this is a very young team.

    We’re past the breakdown phase and now we’re in the buildup phase, but we still aren’t there yet.

    When I look at a rebuilding team, I want to see maybe a few established pieces brought in/kept and a host of promising prospects or young players, and that’s exactly what the Mets have.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Now you’re just being ridiculous.

    Can you at least give me an example of a “hot player” he benched last season?

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    I’d hardly call a “collapse” in May a “collapse.” Come on now.

  • TexasGusCC

    It isn’t only which players he plays, it’s how he uses them. Examples:
    1. Last week of the season, he had den Dekker sitting on the bench and started Baxter in he entire Milwaukee series instead of playing the kid.
    2. When Davis was in a spiral slump, and so was Buck, they batted 4th and 5th, effectively killing the lineup and causing, YES, CAUSING, a 6-23 record during May.
    3. Taking pitchers out that are doing well, for no apparent reason, leaving his bullpen short handed in the late or extra innings (I have a Perfect example with Harvey in the seventh, taking him out and having three relievers pitch to three batters and blow the lead).
    4. Not rewarding a player’s production with more playing time.
    5. Allowing players like Murphy to play to the point of exhaustion (701 plate appearances), rather than managing his rest better. Then, telling us he slumped because he was tired.

    That’s enough for now.

  • TexasGusCC

    Yes, it was read above.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    But that’s how trades work – you trade players for the best possible package. A team like the Mets, which not a lot of present talent, should build a long-term winner. That requires prospects.

    And those prospects he got include Wheeler and Syndergaard, so it’s hard to complain. I think when you see guys like d’Arnaud getting called up and Lagares playing a lot of CF, that shows he’s willing to play prospects. Is he too cautious? Perhaps. But with all teams, the best player plays.

  • Bail4Nails

    Absolutely agree. I believe Grandy will produce, and RBIs are all I’m looking for. I think that’s all we should be looking for. If Grandy gives us 100 RBIs, does it matter if he gets them through opposite field base hits more than HRs? Not at all, that’s my point. That’s why I still don’t get the argument that Flores’ bat won’t work at 1B. If he gives you the same or more RBIs than other First Baseman, who cares if he hits 10 less HRs? If our hopes are hanging on OBP and “timely hitting” (which I agree with), we have to lose our love affair with the long ball (Sandy), and concentrate on contact hitting to produce runs. If the team can do this, the sky is the limit. Just stop striking out.

  • TexasGusCC

    After Neuhenheis’ three run homer to beat the Cubs, he didn’t play the next game. After Valdespin’s grand slam, he didn’t play the next game. After Brown’s consecutive winning hits against Arizona, he didn’t play. After Lagares hit a 3-run homerun against the Cubs in Wrigley in the ninth, six days of rest.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    1. Am I supposed to care what he does the last week of the season when they’re 22 games out? Who cares?

    2. You’re hanging a 6-23 record on two guys? It’s May. I’ve got other guys in this thread telling me TC never fields a consistent lineup. So which is it? Is he supposed to be moving everybody around after less than 100 ABs or is he supposed to be consistent with his lineup?

    Duda played more than Ike that month and batted just .217 with 4 home runs. Gonna blame some on him? And Buck had nine home runs in April. Are you really sitting him after 20 ABs where he didn’t play as well? Gimme a break.

    3. The bullpen blew a lot of leads for Harvey. It’s true. But why is that Terry’s fault. At one point, people were complaining he was letting Harvey throw TOO MANY pitches, so which is it? Should he have a long leash or a short one? And again, as I’ve been saying, you’re complaining because the move didn’t work. If it had, as is has other times, you’re not talking about it, are you? When managers make the right move, no one says anything. When they’re wrong, they should be fired.

    4. Example please?

    5. Murphy needed rest? Your second point was telling me he needed to bench poor players. Now you want him to bench players who are playing well? Usually when players play every day, it’s a good thing. Not to you apparently. Also, when did he get tired? He was tired in June? Why does he need rest in June? If he needs rest in June, he should be released. We’re trying to win ball games here.

    And I guess he got some extra rest some time because he hit .294 in July, .282 in August and .306 in September (when you might expect a player to be tired).

    That’s enough for now.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Mitch,

    “For everyone who doesn’t think the Mets have a chance this year, what exactly are you rooting for? Are you hoping the team fails? I’m confused…Seems like a lot of fans have already decided the season is over before it starts. Anything can happen. It’s a long season with a lot of twists and turns.”

    If many of us seem down on the team now, it is not because of those in the dugout and are wearing the uniform. We believe in them.

    It is because we felt the same way you did in early July of 2011 and asked the same exact question not of the fans – but of the ownership and the general manager – who were they rooting for? Despite the way the team was playing the same general manager whom we still have now “decided” the season was over by the All-Star break even though after the dismantling we still had enough talent to pull within six games in the loss column for the wildcard with 56 to go.

    So instead of believing in the team, there was a GM who felt it was either going to fail – or that it didn’t matter one way or the other because money was more important instead. And rather than wanting to root them on the rest of the year because “anything can happen – it’s a long season with a lot of twists and turns” there were many fans who also had no faith in the team and thus praised Sandy Alderson for getting rid of KRod to save the $17 million vesting option and then Beltran because he was not only going to walk at the end of the year but that we could get a top pitching prospect in Wheeler in return. Rather than looking at all the intangibles, rather than looking inside their hearts, rather than supporting the players who were showing they were proving the “analysts” wrong, the ownership and front office used them and the percentages they quoted to show they were right instead – which many of us knew then was just used as a smoke screen to eliminate expenses that were being cut in every area of the organization because they were having continual difficulties in being able to pay their bills and nothing more.

    That is the damaged that has been caused by this organization. It cannot inspire us to share the same wonderful enthusiasm that you express, the same spirit that was the embodiment of Tug McGraw and “Ya Gotta Believe” because it has left so many of us numb today instead. That was what baseball was and always should be and what it isn’t at this time, at least for many a Met fan.

    For this organization, it is about retaining it’s financial solvency as a business. It is not about both because investing the resources necessary to put together a competitive team and retaining a fiscal balance cannot be done under the current financial situation. It only further erodes that simple spirit of hope by flashing too much “reality” in our faces. This is what happens when rooting becomes looking at the situation in the analytical manner you touch upon – it becoming less an emotional passion but something so logical, so cold and objective based on all the stats and numbers. The combination is just too much to overcome for many of us.

    Though disgusted having to live through more than a half decade of having the “worst team that money could buy” at least I knew one was trying. The business situation being what it is, that is not the main concern today.

    So if some of us seem down now, it’s because those who let us down then, as they did the following season, are still running the show and thus no matter how hard those wearing the uniform of the orange and blue are going to bust their rear ends to win, they will still find their efforts undermined by those at the top – just as we’ve seen with the limited help they got this past off-season.

    It’s nothing personal – it’s strictly business.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Yes, Kirk did play the next game. He went 0-3.

    Valdespin didn’t play the next game after his GS, you’re right. But he played the game after that. And the game after that. And given what we now know about Valdespin, he was better off benching him.

    Brown didn’t play the next day. He sat against the righty because he didn’t hit them well. That’s just baseball and what you do with a lifetime minor leaguer.

    Lagares. Well, it was a two-run home run, not a three-run and he did not play, so I’ll give you that one.

  • omar minayass

    i’m not buying it man….i hear where you’re coming from, & if the organization was truthful & genuine about their approach, i would probably be supportive of their rebuild. but when you factor in the wilpon’s deceit & lies, sandy’s pompous stance on pretty much everything & the inability for this team to do anything meaningful in august/september for the (let’s say the) 3 year timeframe, i honestly don’t care about their intentions. it’s not worth my time & money anymore.

    you’re probably young & ambitious. i’ve been down that road, and i’ve learned that history repeats itself until forced otherwise. these guys are a circus act, & your blog should do quite well over the next couple of years.

  • omar minayass

    most of the people across the street have transferred over to this site. probably what you’re getting lol.

  • Captain America

    I believe the team had a 2% chance to make playoffs when “the plug” was pulled

  • Matlack

    For most of the skeptics, it’s just been a grind following the austerity plan of recent seasons, so they are wary of getting hopes up. For a smaller, but quite vocal group, it SEEMS, like you say, to be about being right; they loathe the front office, and would rather get team Sandy(and what it represents) out of Dodge, than be seen as wrong. This front office being right would be a repudiation of their baseball acumen.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Who are the young guys you wanted him to play?

  • Super T

    With this roster? Really? Same player from last year at nearly every position other than Granderson who replaces Byrd, and Colon who replaces Harvey. 77 wins as the roster stands.

  • “I believe the team had a 2% chance to make playoffs…”
    That nor the decisions to trade KRod & Beltran has no bearing on this post. The post asks the question if the organization can win x number of games in 2014? Then proceeds to make a case for the possibility looking at the current players in the organization.

    The chances the 2011 Mets had on making the playoffs has about as much bearing to the question posed by Mitch in this post as the type of jerseys worn for Opening Day 2011.

    It’s just used to redirect the focus to the front office/ownership.

  • Taskmaster4450

    You will find that CY replaced Byrd’s production. Watch.

    He has $50M+ reasons to put up a terrific year.

  • Super T

    While I think CY will have a better year than he’s had the last two seasons, he’s never had an OPS like Marlon Byrd’s (848) his entire career.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Captain America,

    Instead of the two percent when the plug was pulled, I always suggest watching the replay of Pagan’s homer in the Pepsi Porch when it is aired on Mets Classics.

    Not because of the dramatic outcome of the game itself but rather to notice the manner in which the team was playing, the confidence we saw in them, the body English that read they never were giving up, the positive winning spirit and belief in themselves and how they had
    come together as a team. That is something no statistic can give value to nor recognize how easily the indifference based on other priorities by the front office can destroy what is so vital to building a winning organization.

    That, and the discussions between Gary, Keith and Ron regarding all the positive things they had to say about the team and it being in the wild card. Oh yes, that could easily be dismissed as home town hype and spin but one cannot help noticing the enthusiasm in their voices and thus that their words weren’t being patronizing or forced.

    That’s why it is hard to find the same feelings today. I don’t know if this organization understands the severity of the damage it has caused to it’s own business interests.

  • XtreemIcon

    I had over 20 e-mails from Disqus when I woke up this afternoon.

  • TexasGusCC

    Neither had Marlon Byrd, LOL

  • Hitmanᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ✔

    They’ll only get that far once the foundation of the team (Flores, d’Arnaud, Lagares, Davis) step up offensively and with the new breed (Puello, Thor, Montero) making their presence felt. I’m a firm believer in Wheeler & Mejia anchoring the rotation, with Niese finally taking the next step. Getting run support for the starters will go a long way, a long standing problem for this team. The bullpen situation will progress again this year, especially with the right late inning vet with the young guns. Bottom line: Don’t screw this up, Collins!

  • Super T

    Actually, he had an ops above .800 a few seasons. CY has never had one though.

  • BCleveland3381

    Yes, but you have to remember that while we’re downgrading from Harvey to Colon, we also have Wheeler for an entire season, and likely Mejia instead of Aaron Laffey/Shawn Marcum/Carlos Torres in the 5 slot. I’d say overall, our pitching staff isn’t really worse. If d’Arnaud takes any step forward whatsoever, he’s an upgrade over last year’s catching situation. The law of averages should help Tejada(even though Im still in support of getting Drew).

    Not to mention we were a .500 team once Sandy figured out to take Duda out of the OF last year. I don’t think going .500 is out of the question for us this season.

  • Super T

    As long as we have basically the same offense that couldn’t score for Matt Harvey last year it doesn’t matter who we have pitching this year. Have to score runs to win games.

  • BCleveland3381

    Well, I think we’ll be somewhat better. How much is hard to say. There are a lot of question marks. At the very least, Murphy, Wright, and Granderson are solid, proven MLB hitters. We’ll need a guy like Chris Young or Ike to step up and young guys like Lagares and d’Arnaud to take the next step forward. Will all of those things happen? Probably not. But I think it’s not unreasonable to expect one of our young guys to take a step forward and one guy out of Ike, Duda, Chris Young, etc to do the same.

  • I wouldn’t go that far either. It is reasonable to be pessimistic or express pessimism at the team’s chances. The Mets can also have a season where they go 62-100.

    Mitch’s attempt I believe though was to see if considering all the things that can’t be predicted despite the best of efforts as we have seen at times in past seasons with teams who play well above or below early expectations, how the team as it currently stands an argument can be made that they could end up with a season that sees them win close to 90 games.

    But I believe because you have fans that are so frustrated in parts with the lack of winning, ownership and or the administration I think it is difficult to separate that and look at the players that take the field with a glass half full take.

    Simply put you have fans that need to see wins to believe
    . Nothing short of that will do and it’s difficult to find fault in that. But I think how one expresses that frustration can sometimes rub the wrong way like for example when it is in the form to laugh at another.

    At the end of the day both sides of the argument get unjustly berated at times. You see fans express pessimism and are soon after mocked for their views and you have fans that express optimism and also soon after are mocked for their views.

    What most of us want and I don’t say all because in my opinion I believe there are those that would rather see the team fail if it meant new ownership or administration is to see the Mets win.

    My opinion has been that much of what has happened with the team has been part of a multifaceted process dealing with both the financial stability of the team as well as getting in a position to make not just a run at winning a ring but doing so repeatedly.

    The Mets have made their beds with the plan that assembling and developing the players they have thus far in the system will accomplish this. Personally I think the farm has not looked this promising in quite some time but any Mets fans that knows of “Generation K” will tell you that promise is one thing actually being able to deliver on it is quite another.

    As far as bats go the time to trade pitching for hitting does not end when camp begins as far as I am aware and I have no reason to believe the Mets can’t add a bat some time during the season as well.

    The biggest issue of concern for me will be avoiding injuries. That can wreck the best laid plans in a heart beat.

    Niese, Gee, Wheeler, Mejia, Montero, Syndergarrd, Parnell, Familia, Torres, Walters, Leathersich, deGrom, Edgin, Gorski, Kolarek, Fulmer. A number of promising arms. Some have already had limited success while others have yet to show they can even make the jump to the Big Leagues.

    I like having multiple eggs in one basket as opposed to just one or two.

  • Super T

    I did predict them 3 games better than last year and I think it would be close to .500 if they signed Drew.
    He would upgrade the team’s weakest position (SS). Would give them a leadoff hitter (.377 obp vs RHP). And would most likely put EY jr on the bench as the 4th OF’er, while putting Lagares in the lineup.

    Signing Stephen Drew could potentially fix 3 current problems with this team’s roster.

  • Joey D.

    Hi BCleveland,

    I believe I gave the counterpoint to that a while ago, citing that the team played it’s best ball and that it was due to EYJ and Lagares hitting way beyond their ability and Byrd having his best month of the season in July.

    We went 30-22 during that stretch fully in tact except for the final week when David went on the DL which led to us being a game over .500 over our last 99 games yet one cannot expect a repeat of that performance when it came on the coat tails of EYJ, Lagares and the now departed Byrd. d’Arnaud’s improvement cannot make up for that much of a slack.

  • Matt Mosher

    Plus defense. Lol

  • MyasDaddy

    Well isn’t that where Granderson comes in and provide that offense? I mean what about C.Young were paying him a lot of money to be our CF. Or LF if Lagares wins the job in CF. In reality, think no more Kirk, Andrew Brown, den Dekker etc. They were a bunch of hacks. Our OF is a lot better than it was last year.

  • Matt Mosher

    Agreed

  • TexasGusCC

    For the Mets to be successful, they need to improve in performance and execution. The Oakland A’s are a prime example of a team that makes the most of its “no-name” players that play the game correctly and do the little things needed to be a winning team.
    I was thinking to myself at how many players on the Oakland A’s are markedly better than their Mets counterparts. Lowrie for sure; Cespades and maybe Crisp. Their first base platoon was better than our assortment of characters. But, Byrd was better than Reddick. Murphy was batter than… at second base.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Task,

    You mean that even based on just traditional stats, CY is going to account for anything close to the 139 runs produced by Byrd, let alone the additional runs Byrd created with his .285 batting average and ability to make more contact which if nothing resulted in either moving runners into scoring position or keeping innings alive?

    Sure CY might have $50M reasons to put up a terrific year but that doesn’t mean he has the talent to do it. And if he does, do you think he’ll be with the team past the July 31st trade deadline?

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    I dont agree, i think alot of fans are upset and have every right to be

  • MetsAussieNation

    The Granderson = Byrd argument is true, but for only a 1/3 of the season. Statistically, Byrd was terrible in april, and sub par in may. June -> August he was exceptional, then he was gone for Sept.

    In sept. we had the likes of Andrew Brown taking over among others. Brown hit .111 over almost 50 ab’s.

    So we are talking about a .250 BA, .308 OBP, 23 hrs, 74 runs, and 92 RBI’s out of the right field position. Taking a 15% cut on Granderson’s career averages, he still surpasses this production on nearly every statistic.

    Also,production out of CF .222 BA, .267 OBP for the mets with 200 ab’s going to sub .220 hitters.. If Lagares/ Cyoung/ EYJ cant improve on that, they should be deported.

    Statistically the mets outfield was abysmal last year outside of Byrd for 3 months. Something to keep in mind.

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    I think its 75

  • Joey D.

    Hi Texas,

    Has the snow and ice been hitting you badly down there?

    Though his OPS was at an all-time high, Byrd actually only hit five points above his lifetime average last season. It was his power that suddenly jumped off the chart and it wasn’t just the total – it was the distance too that makes me believe it had to be PED related. Some of his shots made it into the second deck at Citi Field.

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    More will come

  • PessiMets

    John buck and Anthony recker combined for 21hr and 81 RBI how was that exactly terrible production from the C position? I understand that the buck production was mostly at the beginning of the season but it was still production. Also take out the 20+ hr by Byrd and there is a lot to replace

  • BarnRat

    Agree there are some things to like about signing Drew that don’t directly relate to Drew — like improving the chances of getting Lagares in the starting line-up. I also like Flores and Murphy on the right side of the infield to solve the 1B issue, but that isn’t Plan A…

  • TexasGusCC

    You asked what the complaints were regarding Collins.

  • Hitman your last sentence has me considering how likely a scenario is it that a slow start say 10 games below .500 by the Mets in early May leads to Collins taking the fall and possibly Backman getting the interim mgr shot?

  • Joey D.

    Hi MyasDaddy,

    Granderson replaces the bat of Byrd and it’s really a trade off of probably ten more home runs due to Citi Field for about a 40 point drop in batting average so there is a pro and con side to that.

    We paid a lot of money to Chris Young who only once hit anywhere better than the neighborhood of .225 against right handed hitting and is a lifetime .235 hitter – the same as Andres Torres whom was the player Sandy got to be our center fielder in 2012, remember? CY also was aided tremendously by playing in Arizona – he was a much different type hitter on the road as far as power went – in his best season nearly three out of every four home runs came at home.

    Our outfield is better than it was on opening day but that is of small victory. It got better as the season went along but to what extent? We only have one batting threat (Granderson) along with speed and defense. We can afford to keep Lagares in center if we had another corner outfielder who could hit. That is not going to be the case with CY.

  • Super T

    I’d like to see Murphy left alone at 2B, with all the moving around he’s had to do – I think he’s earned it, as he was one of the more productive 2Bs in the league last year offensively.

    1B – at the very least, I think the Mets have learned their lesson and will never give Ike Davis another half season, or month and a half, of playing everyday and struggling while the team suffers for it.

  • Joey D.

    Hi MetsAussieNation,

    Just keep up with those observations – it adds to why one can’t rest on last year’s laurels to think staying pat like we have is a step forward. Our kids did well but they need assistance and are not getting it. It’s like after 1973, the late season success diverted many from the truth about our weak spots and trying to resolve them.

  • NewYorkMammoths

    Yes!

    (We’re counting spring training, right?)

  • Super T

    As long as Sandy and his Co-GM’s are in place – Wally Backman will never be the Mets skipper. TC is a “yes” man and that is what our GMs want in a manager.

  • Joey D.

    Not at all.

    That front office is still running the show. It’s that front office that gets the players – or decides not to. That makes it very relevant because they are the ones whose focus on the debt situation is still their top priority and that is going to impact how well the Mets do in 2014 for the same reason it impacted what happened in 2011.

    And BTW – the response was to Mitch asking why so many did not feel the Mets did not have a chance this year. The answer clearly states the reason why. Keeping the business solvent for Sterling Equities under the current fiscal conditions does not allow it to invest the financial resources necessary to put together a competitive team. The entire organization has been downsized, not just the roster payroll.

    So just because one might not agree with it, the fiscal situation is a very valid reasons that cannot be dismissed simply as a means “to redirect the focus to the front office/ownership.” If anything, the reply appears as an attempt to instead avoid focusing on that very important element which cannot be dismissed when discussing the future of this club. It is not a case of having the money and just making bad decisions. It is a case of not having the money to make the decisions – good or bad – that other mid to big size market clubs do as routine.

  • jason bay

    Joey,

    The Mets played .500 ball for the last 100 games of the season and during that period they were missing for a portion of time through injury or trade Harvey, Niese, Wright, Byrd, Buck and Parnell.

  • MetsAussieNation

    You are dead on mate! The infusion of new faces, both from the minor leagues and through free agency is a forward step, and we can hope the dead weight removed over the winter will work as an additional positive. Spring training will be one of the more interesting in the last 5 years.

    Just excited to see the boys suit up.

  • Bail4Nails

    I think Joe has a point. Even if we have a good first half, and we’re in range of a wild card, what’s the point of getting excited? If recent history is a lesson, no way are we promoting stud pitchers before the Super 2 deadline. If lightning strikes, and CY (or Murphy) has a career year going, he’ll be flipped for prospects. And everyone will say “that’s okay, Lagares or Puello will step in”, yet these guys have been either benched or sent to the Minors, and are now expected to instantly fill the role of a postseason rental. Then, when these overlooked prospects don’t meet instant expectations, we’ll call them a bust and look for yet another 1 year wonder. As for the rest of the team (that isn’t sold to the highest bidder), they now have to continue fighting for that wild card spot with key players missing, and inexperienced replacements filling in.
    Then, when we’re no longer in contention, everyone will say “it’s okay, we got all those prospects to play along with Wright, Grandy, Harvey, and Wheeler”. That is until 1,2 or all of them get hurt, and we are starting yet another “rebuilding” year.
    Life is short, play to win today, in case I die tomorrow. When is the last time the Mets made the playoffs? How many Met fans have died since then?

  • Let me say that Backman if he is given a managerial job he too will be a yes man if by yes man you mean agreeing and or sharing in a common objective in regards to the team and currently is a Yes man for that matter unless you believe he is running around doing everything opposite what the organization wants as their minor league manager.

    This idea that GMs hire managers so they can go against the ideas the organization has is just not one I share. In general I believe GM’s will hire a manager where they both agree on certain criteria when it comes to player development if it is in the minors or just what type of team they are trying to build.

    Regardless Backman as things go has no problem being the team’s yes man at AAA managing and I would suspect that if the team was down on Backman in how he has handled his duties I would suspect they would have no problem in replacing him if needed.

  • BarnRat

    OK, the whole Flores at SS thing seems like a feint to me anyway, so as much as I hate the idea, send Flores to Vegas with a 1B mitt? And if that’s the path for him, how frustrating that he spent the winter in Venezuela at 2B? I really think Sandy thought he could turn Murph + a good pitching prospect for an A-list SS, opening 2B for Flores. When that didn’t happen, a lot collapsed.

  • jason bay

    Marlon Byrd never had an OPS like that before

  • Martin

    I think the mets only really need two things to happen. Tda and Flores both get on base at a high rate. Then they will be fine. Granderson will hit homers and the pitching staff is solid. They will. Chase the wild card”

  • metFAN660

    Thanks for this, Mitch…even more appreciated after our back-and-forth the other day. To answer the question; of course they can. I’m not saying that all the question marks are going to work out, but as Dickey and Byrd have shown, there are always some unexpected surprises. If everyone plays like they’re supposed to, and they stay healthy, then they should definitely take another step forward. Then next year…with Harvey back… Good times ahead, in spite of the negativity on here.

  • Bail4Nails

    Sorry to disagree with you twice in one thread, Mr. North. But I think Wally Backman would be more prone to fight for his prospects. This is why I want him to be the manager so badly. As a student of Davey Johnson, and one who worked his way up as both a player and manager of our Minor League system, I like to think he would fight for Lagares and Flores more than TC ever would.

  • BarnRat

    If Flores is getting on-base in the desert it won’t help much…

  • sperry

    Yea that line made me scratch my head, especially when it was followed up with a big, big assumption about TDA

  • jason bay

    There were two huge areas for which for the Mets to improve.

    Home and against RHP. Byrd hit most of his HR’s on the road and Young is better defensively and running the bases which should help at home. Grander son helps address the platoon split Vs RHP.

    One thing we have to keep in mind is that it’s better than the what OF so many were so wrong about.

  • DKNOKOZ

    Schedule is tough to start the year and right after the All-Star game. Plus we get the Yanks for 4, and the AL West. We get Houston the last three games of the year which probably will not matter (although I’d love it if

  • Mitch did not mention the Mets can win 85 games if a trade is made at the deadline. At least not that I can recall seeing. If the question is will the Mets make a trade to add a player if they are indeed in a playoff race that can be debated as well but that is not what was mentioned today.
    Fans have at times this idea that because something happened once that it means that will always be the case. Decisions are made based on the current situation.
    I may say I am going to a picnic tomorrow if the weather is good but then I don’t go because something intervened. It does not mean that from now whenever I say I am going on a picnic if the weather is good I won’t because something will intervene.

    You look at decisions as they come based on the situation at that time and judge accordingly. To say the past moves means the future moves will be the same does not make sense. The Mets 2 years ago and the Mets in 2014 will be at different places both financially and player depth wise. To suggest this has no bearing on future decisions seems unrealistic.

    Timing and knowing when to go in or not and how in a team goes to make a run is probably the most difficult decision an organization can make. Wait too long and you miss your window. Commit too soon and if wrong it can set you back as well.

    As a fan my opinion has been that it’s easy to say go in every year and spend whatever it takes. If we are wrong who cares but an organization can’t function with that mindset in my opinion.

    “Life is short, play to win today, in case I die tomorrow.” Nice words but in the running of a professional franchise it is probably not that practical.

    And as far as the playoffs you don’t have to remind me. I am there with you in the pain of failing to reach the playoffs let alone win a W.S.

    If the Mets go 82-80 in 2014 I doubt that will do anything to satisfy me. For my part all I can do is say that I am looking to see the Mets reach the playoffs in 2014 and realistic or unrealistic as those chances may be my vote of confidence on the Mets GM future will weigh on them reaching that goal.

  • DKNOKOZ

    Post got cut out. Anyway, point is that if we are climbing out of an 8 or 10 game April hole again, 85 wins is just a dream.

  • jason bay

    Getting nothing for Beltran and paying K Rod 17 M for a horrid 2012 would have set this Franchise back even further and we had about 4 teams to pass and another couple to hold off in 2011 and no Albert Pujols coming over the hill to save the day.

  • jason bay

    Agree 100%

  • Do you think Backman is managing as we sit here today against the organizations desired goals?

    In my opinion I don’t see that happening. Now could it come to light down the road that he in fact is or was? Yes, and I am open to reconsidering my opinion if such a thing ever does come to light. But as of now I just don’t see that as being the case.

  • $14435385

    If they start counting from March 1, I see no reason they can’t reach 85-90 wins this year…

  • Bail4Nails

    Well said Mister.

  • Jamie

    I don’t see how there is any chance the Mets aren’t a better team then they were last year. Almost every player on the team is trending upwards and some of the hottest young talent in the game will be going into their first full seasons. Young alone replaces Byrd. Byrd had zero expectations where as if Young puts up an average Young year he will match Byrd’s pop and what he loses in batting average he will gain in defense. He also has some expectations going in whereas Byrd had none last year. Granderson is a full borderline all-star caliber lefty hitting corner outfield bat we didn’t have last year. He replaces the Cowgills, Ankiels, and Dudas we trotted out last year. Lagares should improve and Young Jr for a whole year gives the outfield some added depth. It will be impossible not to get better production out of SS and 1st base whether we sign Drew or not and D’Arnaud should absolutely be a better and more consistent hitter than Buck. Two of our top hitting prospects in Puello and Flores should further give the lineup depth and some interesting questions later on. And thats just the lineup. We have all known the Mets have had some of the best young pitching in baseball coming up the pipe for years. Well guess what? They’re here.

    Our rotation will be better than last year. Theres simply a lot more talent and a lot more depth. Neise and Gee had rocky seasons but are healthy now. Mejia already made his debut and dazzled. Wheeler already got his feet wet. Montero and Thor are coming. We have depth galore. Finally, the bullpen with Lyon, Atchison, ect was one of the worst in the NL last year. These crappy vets are being replaced with top end young fireballs. No chance the bullpen isn’t much improved. I see this as a .500 team. 80-85 wins for sure and thats right now. A lot can change over a season. Maybe Sandy pulls off a big trade finally.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Jason,

    But Byrd still hit well at home even if the power was more on the road. He was a dangerous threat to come through with a base hit at all times. And unfortunately, Granderson is going to have to deal with being a left handed power hitter in Citi Field – the complete opposite of Yankee Stadium. That’s not going to help improve our home field advantage.

    CY is not going to help against right handed pitching – his strength is against left handed pitching and that is where his bat is going to help. But last season the Mets faced left handers only once out of every three games. Thus my earlier contention about him needing a left-handed hitting counterpart to give us a solid outfield. Then the CY signing makes all the sense in the world for he would also serve as a late inning defensive replacement and of course, pinch-hitter.

    Granderson, of course, upgrades us against right handed pitching. If Davis can somehow come around (and unfortunately many have pointed out problems with his mechanics that might not enable that to happen) then we would have at least three solid left handed hitters in the lineup – and too bad we didn’t go after that fourth to platoon with CY.

  • Joey D.

    Jason,

    Now you know why it’s hard to feel positive about this team – when it’s doing something good to then allow it to play out the season is considered setting the franchise back.

    That’s why I responded to Mitch in the manner I did. How can one be optimistic in the face of all such “logic”?

  • Macdaddy

    Analytics aside…the simple and entirely fact based answer is…NO.

  • sperry

    Nearly everything you listed is “if” and “could” and “hopefully,” to an extent not usually seen in teams that are projected to win 90 games. This team is high on potential and low on predictability based on past performance. Not everything is going to go right. Sorry, that’s just how prospects and potential in baseball works. Outside of Wright, Murphy and probably Granderson, the team is riddled with conjecture. Could this team win 85 games? Absolutely. Could they just as easily win 70? Absolutely.

  • mets4lyfe

    Seems extremely improbable given that there aren’t any position players with consistent success on the current Mets roster aside from Wright and Granderson. Moreover, the Mets pitching is still a question mark since we’ve yet to see a full season of Wheeler and Mejia. Teams that are geared to win 85-90 games have more givens than questions marks. Mets have a plethora of question marks in 2014.

  • Matt Mosher

    There’s no way in hell this roster wins 86 games. Pure spring training optimism. The team isn’t that good.

  • Joey D.

    Jason,

    Not during the majority of the 52 game stretch when they played their best ball – 30-22 – which was what I was concentrating on – not when the injuries to Harvey, Wright and Parnell and the trades did them in. To determine what caused them to play so well than June and July we saw it came on the coat tails of Byrd having his best offensive month (July), EYJ having a hot two months playing above his talent before cooling down and a .300 hitting Lagares before he slumped badly as pitchers caught onto his flaws. Did not even mention that Buck actually began to make a bit of a contribution again with his bat before maternity leave.

    So doesn’t that show that four players – two of whom are no longer on the team and two others who were hitting way above their talent level would permit over the course of a full season – enabled the Mets to hit that peak this past summer and without acquiring the proper players to supplement them, they might not be apt to sustain the hitting that enabled that to happen this year?

  • BarnRat

    Re your Byrd / CY discussion, I’d note that the question is not about CY’s comparison to Byrd’s expectations but to Byrd’s production, which was pretty fantastic. And CY is going to be hard-pressed to do much better than Byrd defensively. It’s not about what Byrd has done in his career, it’s about what Byrd did for the Mets last year.

  • Martin

    I agree. The key to everything is young pitching. And even without harvey the mets are deep with young arms.

  • Bail4Nails

    As a Minor League manager, he is not. But I could see Wally, if he were managing the Mets, having no qualms about benching Chris Young if he wasn’t cutting it (regardless of his service time and size of contract). I’m sure the GM wouldn’t like that, but I could see Wally doing that if it meant winning a game. With TC, I’m not so sure about that.

  • Bail4Nails

    “Lagares hitting way beyond his ability”?
    You don’t think Lagares will hit better than .242 this year? That was including the two months he hit .300, making the rest pretty bad. The pitchers adjusted to him, but this season he will adjust to the pitchers, and certainly improve. (If they have sense enough not to demote him)

  • BarnRat

    Completely agree that young pitching is key. That said, if the best pitcher in baseball — a shut down pitcher — for the first 4 months of last year could only go 9-5, we have an obvious problem.

  • I would not completely dismiss the possibility but in my opinion at the end of the day Backman will not be a major league manager for long no matter where he went if he makes it a habit of constantly being in conflict of goals expected of him when hired to begin with and I think despite what we have seen in the past with the Wally videos I believe him to be a pro in how he conducts himself with the team since joining the organization. That is not to say they always see eye to eye as I doubt that is ever the case with any club and their managers but push comes to shove he does what he was hired to do. In my opinion that is of course. 🙂

  • mets4lyfe

    I’d really love it if disquis allowed OPs to view the users that dislike their posts. I personally couldn’t care less about ‘thumbs downs’, but at least tell me why you disagree with my post.

  • KennyandtheMets

    The question shouldn’t be “can they win 85-90 games”. “Can they” makes it a theoretical idea. Any team CAN win, theoretically. How about asking “what are the odds that this team could win 85-90 games?” That would make sense to me. I mean, if d’Arnaud is Buster Posey and Wheeler looks like Harvey, and Colon pitches to a sub 3 ERA, and Wright and Granderaon have healthy strong years, etc…..sure we COULD win 85-90 games. But how likely is all that to happen?

  • Jamie

    Ummm no. Byrd did ok in RF defensively but it isn’t even close. Young is one of the best gloves in the entire NL wherever he plays. As for his offense, Byrd hit 20 home runs for us which was nice but it was a complete fluke. He only hit more than 10 once in his entire career. Young has hit 30 home runs in a season before and just a normal healthy 500 abate season from Young should give you 20-25 home runs if your going off his career numbers. He’s also young enough where he could still improve. If we had re-signed Byrd instead of going after Young, we should all be very concerned but instead we went after an upgrade. Nobody talks about it though and keeps comparing him to Granderson which does;t really make sense.

  • 3doza33

    Pitching, fielding and timely hitting are the keys to success! You have to field the ball! Look at how much better we played last year once we replaced duda with EY jr…. Very simple.. Depth is the last key part to a winning team. We are finally building depth! We have Flores ready to step in if the captain or Murphy get hurt. We have EY as a super backup. We have Puello ready to make the jump in the outfield. We have lots of 1st basemen. Most importantly, we have more pitching depth than ever!

  • Jamie

    Disagree. Your referring to the lineup which might have some merit but you can’t say the same about the pitching. We are young, loaded, and established. Colon, Neise, Gee, and Wheeler are already known quantities. Lannan, Dice-k, Mejia, Montero, Degrom, and Thor will essentially be fighting for one spot all year. We can weather any storm. Outside of the Dodgers, almost every lineup in the NL is pretty mediocre. The days of the 2006 Mets lineup are long gone. Most teams are lucky to have 3 above average players in their lineup. Murphy, Wright, Granderson, and D’Arnaud could easily be a nice little core and if pitching and defense wins we will have it in spades. The unknowns you refer to(1st base/SS) will all be added gravy.

  • Jamie

    Exactly how I look at it. People think we have a bunch of unknowns this year? Last year we had actual crap thrown in the outfield to start the season. A bunch of retreads that we took a third of the season to filter out. We had zero depth anywhere. retreads in the outfield, bullpen, and even rotation. All that is being replaced with young talent that already broke through towards the end of last year(Black, German, Edgin, Parnell, Wheeler, Mejia, Lagares, D’Arnaud, Flores, ect. How people don’t see this as being a better team is beyond me.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Bails,

    I’m hoping for better production but don’t expect him to be anything like the .300+ hitter he started off as from what the scouting reports have said.

    I think Mitch perhaps summed it up best a month ago by pointing out his problems being that of a tremendously over-aggressive hitter and that despite lofty numbers in the minors, that weakness could be exploited by big league pitchers.

    The question in my mind is that he is now going on 25 and after seven professional seasons is it too late for those ultra-aggressive mechanics to be changed since they are so much ingrained in his approach that it is more than just a little bit of tinkering that is required.

    MITCH, YOU ARE THE EXPERT AROUND HERE. WOULD THE CHANGES YOU SUGGESTED COME AT A POINT INTO HIS PROFESSIONAL CAREER THAT THEY CAN THROW OFF HIS OVERALL RHYTHM AND TIMING SO DRASTICALLY TO CAUSE MORE HARM THAN GOOD? KNOW IT’S A GENERAL QUESTION.

    Thanks,

    Joey

    http://metsmerizedonline.com/2014/01/flashback-prospect-pulse-on-outfielder-juan-lagares.html/

  • DrDooby

    HR are just one part of the game.
    You can hit 20+ HR – but if you only have a BA of .220 and an OBP of .280 , you aren’t a very productive major leaguer.
    I’d much rather have a Daniel Murphy who only hits 10 HR but bats .280 with a .320 OBP. Over a full season, that’s worth a lot more because of the 40+ doubles he also provides (instead of just 15 doubles).

    The Mets weren’t terrible at C in 2013 – certainly better than in 2012 – but were still slightly below average overall. Offensively & defensively.

    And if you’re sad to see John Buck’s 60 RBI leave – you must be thriled that the Mets have added 18-game winner Bartolo Colon to their staff. After all Colon “knows how to win”…
    Shouldn’t that make up for it ?

  • KennyandtheMets

    We only have “lots if 1B” because we don’t have one who stands out as the #1 guy there. We also don’t have a SS.

  • KennyandtheMets

    I think this is a better team. I’m not sure how much better though. We still have major holes at key positions. Too many question marks to assume that the difference is really significant.

  • mr mojo risin

    I just wanna see some games, Man… tired of all the talk and theoretical criticisms. Can’t wait to see the lineups posted (depends, UGH Terry), pitches thrown, crack of the bat, doubles down the line… let’s Go!

  • jason bay

    Joey,

    Glad to see you come around full circle on Byrd. I can remember how unhappy you were when we signed him. Same thing happened with Hairston I believe. Could Chris young be next?

    Stranger things have happened.

  • Jamie

    Where are the major holes? 1st base and SS? Is that all anyone can talk about? There not even really holes. Ike hit 32 home runs a year ago. Duda/Satin could give you 25. Flores and others could fit in there too if everything went to hell. Drew looks like he might still be coming in and Tejada hit .280 twice and looks to be coming into camp in shape. How many teams don’t have a question mark at ANY position? Its ludicrous. Who do the Yankees have at 3rd and 2nd?

  • DrDooby

    This. Thing is, every team needs more than 5 SP and 8 regular hitters to make it through a season. The lack of depth already derailed playoff runs for the 2007 through 2010 Mets and also was an issue in 2011 and 2012 when the team collapsed after a good first half.

    Odds are that pitchers who are not even on the Opening Day roster will combine for more innings than either Zack Wheeler or Jon Niese.
    Likewise, hitters that aren’t on the Opening Day roster will probably combine for more AB than either David Wright or Curtis Granderson.

    Yet, the value of an AB or an IP generally happens to be very similar.
    Projections not only struggle to project unproven young talent but also do not fully account for depth beyond the starting 5 in the rotation, the bullpen and everyday lineup.

    Now if you feel that the group of young players on the Mets – especially the pitchers – aren’t going to perform and you also don’t like the depth on the roster, then another mid 70s win season seems realstic.
    If you like the depth and young talent, especially on the pitching staff, the odds for a much better season are higher.

  • Hotstreak

    I analyzed this and keep on coming to 81 wins. On a bell shaped curve 77 wins through 85 wins have about a 90% chance of happening. More or less wins the odds drop. Key number is 4 above or 4 below. Plus or Minus Five is too much from the mean. With increased depth we could even sustain an injury and be competitive unlike prior years.

  • jason bay

    Great point Jamie,

    How ’bout Philly at 1B, 2B, SS and 3B. I mean we know who the are but how long do they have?

    I wonder who is playing SS in Cinn and Pitt? 2B in Atlanta and Washington? How will Gattis do behind the plate? Upton in CF? Mourneau at 1B, Hamilton in CF?

    Guess we’re the only ones who have question marks.

  • Jamie

    It really is true and only further cements how far we’ve come. If all we can cry about is 1st base and SS and we have the options we are likely to have there we are doing pretty good. Some teams would kill to have that be there “biggest questions marks”

  • DrDooby

    Projections expect the Mets to have a mediocre / averagish offense but a well below average pitching staff. Why ? Because beyond Colon, Niese, Gee and Parnell, the pitching staff is very much unproven.

    Furthermore, projection systems predict a regression to the mean. The Braves are projected to finish 85-77 by Pecota while the Nats are projected to finish 88-74.

    The Yankees will win 8 more games than the 74-88 Mets in 2014 and finish 82-80 according to Pecota projections btw.

    If the Mets pitching exceeds the low expectations by a significant margin, the Mets can finish above .500 or even contend.

    And speaking of these Pecota projections, they expect OF Chris Young to post a 2.5 WAR while Bryce Harper projects to be barely more valuable at 2.7 WAR.

  • Hitmanᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ✔

    It makes no sense now. If they wanted Backman as manager, they should’ve brought him in from Jump Street instead of hurrying to give Collins an extension.

  • DrDooby

    Also, expectations have to be adjusted in the current era. A 3.75 ERA from a SP was very good 10 years ago – now it’s rather mediocre.
    A hitter with a .750 OPS was considered mediocre 10 years ago and suddenly is average – or well above average if we’re talking about a C or a SS.

    The Mets weakness over the past 3 seasons has been a lack of pitching. The offense has been decent enough. The 2014 offense should be slightly better than it has been over the past couple of years. But not in a very significant way. The Mets have had a .500ish caliber offense for a couple of years now.

    Unforrtunately, they’ve had a 70-win or less pitching staff to go with it – in spite of Harvey’s great 2013 or Dickey’s 2012. The rest has been pedestrian to awful. This is where the team can make massive improvements. Give up 600 instead of 700 runs and win 85 instead of 74 games…

  • PessiMets

    Not saying buck was great but he wasn’t a total black hole either, I am certainly sure tda is going to be better I’m just not sure how much so

  • KennyandtheMets

    I didn’t say the Yankees were in good shape either. Look at our line up Jaime. Who is our lead off hitter? Who is our #5 hitter? Tejada, if healthy (which I will believe when I see it), can hit for a decent average, but has no speec or power. Ike’s swing is terrible and the league has learned how to pitch him. Duda and Satin can get on base, but they don’t drive in runs. Aside from Granderson, we still have poor offense from the rest of the OF.

  • KennyandtheMets

    Ok.

  • NEIL alprin

    anyone who thinks the mets will win more than 80 games is living on fantasy island, heres why, no rbi producers, 4 .200 hitters, pitchers can pitch around david wright. bullpens a mess even if you can get a lead they will blow it. starting pitchers cant pitch a shutout every day, think about it tejada .200 easy out davis/duda automatic out , chris youg whiff, pitcher whiff legares /young not much better, same story 70+wins maybe

  • Anthony

    I’d take talent first an we don’t have much

  • Anthony

    The key to winning 85 to 90 games is talent and frankly I don’t see it

  • skyking26

    85-90 wins anything is possible but not with Terry Collins.

  • 2aSupport

    Hitting a home run doesn’t constitute someone being “hot”, FYI. So by your logic, When a .157 Hitting Ike Davis hits a home run, he is now “hot”, and should automatically start the next day against a tough left-hander?

  • 2aSupport

    Um, no.

  • BarnRat

    I wasn’t arguing for resigning Byrd. Just observing that his 2013 performance was as you say, a fluke, so unlikely that CY or any combination will replicate that. 2013 Byrd and “career” Byrd are very different.

  • ThatGuyWhoLeavesComments

    Yes, thanks. We’re worried about what he’s doing when they’re 22 games out in the last week of the season and whether he starts the lifetime minor leaguer or the other lifetime minor leaguer. Very important stuff.

  • BadBadLeroyBrown

    More like the Dodgers and Nats hope to never field a team like the Mets. A below .500 team

    😉

  • Nolrog

    86 wins? Not without major changes. If they finish .500 I’ll be shocked. I think they will come in around 75 wins.

  • Fast Eddie

    Oh sure, the Mets CAN win 85-90 games in 2014, but what are the odds that they will do so? Very long ones, I’d say. There are simply too many questions still to be answered. Will d’Arnaud stay healthy and finally live up to his minor-league promise? Will someone in the traffic jam at 1B step up and provide us with decent production at that position? Will the real Ruben Tejada please step forward? Which will be lower, Colon’s weight or his ERA? Can Granderson become again the player he was in Detroit? Will Niese finally put together a complete season of high-quality starts?

    So many questions, so many questions.

  • Hotstreak

    85 wins is a possibility which gets you third place. Third place in baseball is NOT in the money.

    Addendum: In NL East 86 wins will NOT be 2nd place. It will be 89 wins up to 92 wins to win 2nd place. Weak Phillies, Mets, and Miami which Braves and Nats will build up on.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Jason,

    I always acknowledged how valuable Byrd was last season and how his absence was going to hurt the team badly and that it is a question of whether the additional home run power by Curtis (which Citi Field is going to handcuff him somewhat) is going to be offset by the reliability of Marlon being able to come through with just a base hit.
    I don’t think anybody – including Sandy Alderson – expected anything of Byrd when he was signed to that minor league contract and given an invitation to spring training to fight for the fifth outfield opening. Sandy even acknowledged that himself.

    With Marlon it’s a bag of mixed emotions because he was a pleasure to watch but – and this is why it presents a moral problem for me – I think it was obvious the PEDs came into big play and that he was somehow able to mask the test results. His power figures jumped and even though he might have hit more on the road, the total was more than anything he approached beforehand and, as mentioned, some of his home runs were “shots”.

    With the public clamor against the use of such drugs and the added influence professional athletes who find success using it have upon high school and college athletes who are too young to know better and feel they need it to get that extra edge to make it – those who to still choose to use it themselves have to be looked at beyond the game and the record books and maybe not be ostracized but certainly not cheered as they come to the plate, either.

    But back to Chris Young, again, it’s not just his declining years because yes, players have been known to bounce back even after a few bad seasons. It’s just that as I said, except for 2010, he has been a notorious poor hitter against right handed hitting and thus the arguments you make regarding others who can’t hit right handers or left handers certainly applies in this case. Sandy either needed to go after a different outfielder who could play every day or get a left handed bat to go along with CY. If the Mets start him just against left-handers, he will be fine but that’s not going to be a full solution to our problems not with Duda, Dan Decker or EYJ to rely upon as the other half. He is going to hurt our anemic hitting attack on the days of a right handed starter if he plays on a daily basis.

    Solution: Use your influence for a designated fielder rule change!

  • Jamie

    Seems like your just calling out negative comments. Anybody can do that. I can say Ike should bounce back. You can say he won’t. I can point to the stability of Murphy and Wright and you can point to the uncertainty of D’Arnaud and round and round we go. We do not have an elite offense yet but we won’t need one. In the NL there is no such thing as a good lineup unless your the Dodgers. Wright, Murphy, Granderson, and Darnaud should give us above average production from 4 spots. That already should be enough with our pitching. The wildcards are Young, 1st base, and SS. Young could hit 20-25 home runs, Ike could hit 30, and we still might sign Drew. Suddenly we have one of the best lineups in the NL. Either way our pitching and defense will carry us and Im excited to see how it plays out.

  • Jamie

    I don’t get what your saying. A career year from Byrd gave us 20 home runs. An average year from Young should give us more than 20 home runs. Young is the better option no matter how you slice it. What are you arguing?

  • Marco

    Met fans are delusional. Ownership is putting together a rinky-dink team for 2014 that will make it six straight years of losing baseball, a performance that is an embarrassment to New York. Supporting such disgraceful management will only encourage continued failure.

  • sperry

    This is like the 10th time I’ve said this but I cannot stress it enough–the Mets were .500 in Harvey’s starts. Let that sink in. . As good as he was, the Mets simply couldn’t score runs to win. Great pitching doesn’t mean a thing when your offense causes you to constantly lose 1-0 and 2-1 games. And the offense, as it currently stands, really isn’t improved from 2013 (unless of course everybody suddenly improves like you think they will). So why would anyone think they’re going to make a huge leap this year. You’re being hilariously optimistic.

  • KennyandtheMets

    It’s not about “throwing out negative comments”. It’s about being realistic. Talking about us getting Drew is meaningless until we have him. I hope C. Young has a bounce back year, but the guy hit 200 last year. I hope d’Arnaud develops into a strong offensive catcher, but until he does you can’t really expect it. As far as Ike hitting 30 HRs again, that is really a reach. I am as big a fan as you Jaimie. It’s just that I’ve suffered through so many bad seasons I’ve the last 40+ years, it is hard to be optimistic. I get the sense that you are a lot younger than me and haven’t been beaten down so much yet. Anyway….LETS GO METS!!

  • jason bay

    Joey,

    In Citi Field over 56 games Marlon hit .249/.297/.415, 712 OPS (Turner had a .704 OPS in ’13) 11 doubles, 7 HR’s, 26 RBI 70 K, 12 BB.

    That is not extraordinary production at home for a Major League RFer. It’s probably below average to tell you the truth.

    I would not have minded re-signing Byrd this off season to a one year deal but I would have expected to see a drop off in his production had he remained with us. since he went to Philly and their tiny ballpark he will probably maintain his production but by any reasonable examination of his 2013 he wasn’t all that good at home for a RFer.

  • skyhappysal

    A few things need to happen to reach 86 wins
    1. Young starters need to make strides: Wheeler and Mejia chiefly but also Niese and Gee. Actually 3 of these guys need to make strides to achieve that goal I think.
    2. The bullpen must be dominant. No room for sliding on this point with this team and their offensive potential.
    3. The defense has to be above average. The outfield should be upper tier. The catching defense looks solid. Its the infield, chiefly in teh middle where we need to pick it up.
    4. We need at least an average offense. We need only one of Lagares and CY to step up actually and one of Duda or Ike, and one of Tejeda or d’Arnaud.
    If half of those six step up we should have an average offense.

    And those 4 points aren’t that hard to conceive people.

  • skyhappysal

    I agree, but if the mets get into the 85win-ish cat then with luck or an acquisition they can be a 90 win team. Anything in the hunt will be joyous

  • BarnRat

    If Young gets within 30 points of Byrd’s 2013 BA and his power and defense hold up as they should then a terrific signing. But even with that he’s only matching Byrd in 2013, so I see more likelihood of a fall-off in production than meeting or exceeding. And the risk of another .200 hitter in this line-up is frightening even with 20-25 HRs.

  • Joey D.

    Jason,

    But the point I am making is to determine what contributed to the Mets when they played their BEST ball of the 2013 season since we are using that as a basis to build upon in 2014 – rather than looking at the overall picture of either winning just 74 games or playing just one game over .500 their last 99 games – for two very important reasons.

    1) We have to dismiss the 24-39 start since the team that started the season was different than the one we saw by mid-June due to the call ups of Lagares and Wheeler and the acquisition of EYJ and

    2) injuries set in the last 47 games and thus it would be unfair to point out to that 20-27 finish as an indication of that being “the real Mets” (remember Leo’s quote in 1969?) nor the overall

    So to point to Byrd’s entire production at home is not focusing on the crucial question at hand – what caused the Mets to play so well at 30-22 during the period in-between numbers one and two above. One wants to know what Byrd’s production at home was during that crucial period – what he did during that earlier portion was irrelevant since he is no longer on the team and EYJ and Lagares are. It was much different as was his overall production at Cit, I assure you. I eyeballed his home park figures during that 52 game stretch an though I might be off by a couple of numbers either way, I came up with 28 hits in 91 at bats for a .308 batting average. You are also aware he was only hitting .253 overall when the Mets were at 24-39 and then started that run, aren’t you?

    Again, due to the injuries that stopped them in their tracks, we must focus on what helped the Mets to that 30-22 record. Their pitching was holding up as it was throughout the season. It was the added scoring punch from Byrd, Lagares and Buck and the ability to get on base a lot by EYJ. Byrd and Buck are no longer on the team. EYJ’s OBP fell tremendously back to his normal figures. Lagares dropped down to .243 from hitting over .300. As a team they averaged 4.17 runs per game.

    As mentioned a while back, they averaged 6.44 runs per game their first 16 contests (103 runs) and after that they scored 502 runs their last 146 (3.44) which includes that 52 game stretch of 4.17 runs per contest. It’s focusing on how the hitting picked up dramatically during their best period of ball – not their pitching – and comparing it to the rest of the season (taking into account being without David for most of August and September and Byrd from the last few days of August along with tremendous 16 game hotstreak (sorry, hotstreak LOL) in the cold weather at the beginning of the season). That is where I suggest we intend to focus our attention to in order to get a better handle on the pros and cons going into 2014 and what can be done to improve ourselves.

    I think the pitching will improve itself somewhat on it’s own based on sheer talent. Same with d’Arnaud and his hitting. Already spoke about Grandy, Wright and Murph. The rest is based on luck – pure luck and a lot of it. If that all falls into place, then we have fate to thank more than anyone else.

  • Jake Jones

    I understand BUT the Mets have a good future starting this year. We may not win 90 games this year but thinsg are starting to look up for the long ter. Our farm is as good as its been in a long time and next year we have harvey wheeler syndergaard montero. We could probably trade gee or niese for another bat if we need to

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    yea agree – we need to make 1 nice trade to get a #4 hitter in here. Our pitching looks good, we just need to fix the line up

  • Jake Jones

    i think the lineup will surprise people. Im not saying we will have a high powered offense but i do think it will be better. I expect Darnaud to be more relaxed and healthy. Granderson and Young might not hit for high average but they can both provide power.

  • MLBGM Fire TC

    yea the line up will be better than last year, but we are still in need of a true #4 hitter to hit between wright and grandy

  • Jake Jones

    ZZZZZZ

  • Connor O’Brien

    Last time I checked they’re 0-0.

  • Joey D.

    Can’t win if we can’t score. Ask Matt Harvey who was the best pitcher in baseball last year. If the Mets couldn’t win when he was on the mound, how can one expect to win with any other pitcher on the mound, no matter how good he is in his own right? This is not to put down the potential of Flores but him replacing either Murphy or Wright does not make one feel better. Neither does Puello stepping into the outfield because his sudden improvement in the minors was due to PEDs and then had a totally miserable winter league. EYJ is a good fourth outfielder to have but TC wants him to be our leadoff hitter despite his below .300 OBP, there is talk about Lagares not hitting enough to support his gold glove caliber fielding as a regular center fielder and CY – a great glove with speed – is still is an anemic hitter with some power who cannot hit right handed pitching at all.

    Depth is not measured in quantity but in quality. I agree we have a lot of good bench strength – the unfortunate part is that also represents our regular position players as well.

  • Joey D.

    Hi Jamie,

    Left field makes three holes. And because all three of those positions lack hitting, that means we have a defensive gem in center but without a bat as well which means four holes in the lineup. With the pitcher that means five out of nine slots with poor hitting.

    Though I like them and hope for better times, I have to be realistic. The problems with Ike and Davis have been documented with their mechanics in which pitchers can exploit. Tejada tailed off badly the last two months of 2012 and was that due to pitchers getting to know him better? We don’t have Drew yet. Flores has to prove himself so let us not assume he is already established.

    We have to wait with d’Arnaud. I do believe his being out for a season and a half meant not only not being in full baseball shape but that his timing was going to be way off as well – and so the call up was more for him to get his feet wet than to make any judgement call on his future. But the manner in which he had his wrists positioned holding the bat was questioned by Keith and Ron and we shall then have to wait and see.

    But if Travis becomes a problem as well, that means five of eight positions which lacks hitting – catcher, first base, shortstop, left field and center – or two thirds of the line up (including the pitcher).

  • Joey D.

    Jason,

    Let them worry about that. We have our own problems to be concerned with. What your bringing up means that a team can win the second wild card with an 82 win season.

  • Anthony

    Your assuming all these guys get better an no injuries. That in itself is unrealistic

  • 3doza33

    Well we will soon find out how good our “depth” is! I’m looking forward to it! I think we are in a much better position this year than we were a year ago and it should be even better the following year.. Time for the Mets to be back on the map!

  • michael

    your a horrible Mets fan

  • michael

    if Curtis granderson hits homeruns and if David wright is healthy than I think they will win close to 86 games

  • michael

    lol what a sh***y Mets fan you are

  • michael

    your a horrible mets fan

  • michael

    we swept the yanks last year…I don’t see why cant try and do it again

  • Anthony

    Thanks your a clueless one

  • michael

    after getting granderson and Chris young and Bartolo colon I say around 86 wins this year

  • KennyandtheMets

    I like the Colon signing and I LOVE the Granderson signing. However, Chris Young’s game has been in decline the last couple if years. Also, we are missing Harvey. Even if Granderson matches what Byrd did and Colon gives us close to what Harvey did, I just don’t see how much better we are. Parnell’s health is a question mark and Hawkins will be missed. So I think the pen could be weaker as well.

  • michael

    I AGREE WITH THE BULLPEN BUT wright and Granderson are likely to hit 30+ hrs and around 90+ rbis they signed young cause he still has the potiential of hitting 20+ home runs in a season cause hes done it 4 times already and the young pitching talent of wheeler and Montero and later in the season syndergard and also the year colon and gee had.. they all have to be healthy. .They also signed Jose valverde but not as our closer

  • KennyandtheMets

    Syndergaard could make a difference. Like you said though, everyone has to stay healthy. And this is the Mets, so how likely is it that everyone stays healthy?!

  • KennyandtheMets

    I hope that Young can hit 20 plus HRs. We will see. Montero might be good, but I would trade him for a young SS. I don’t believe in Tejada as a starting SS.

  • michael

    id rather have wilmer flores as our starting shortstop cause besides tejada that’s all we have and than next offseason or trade deadline we could get a guy like Ramirez or Cabrera as our ss

  • michael

    Thank god Jason bay and Johan Santana are gone so we don’t have to worry about injuries

  • KennyandtheMets

    We don’t know of Flores can play SS well enough to be an every day guy there in the majors. That 86 win total you have would be VERY hard to get with weak defense at that position.

  • KennyandtheMets

    I am still worried about injuries. Very worried. This team has been cursed with them for years.

  • michael

    tweet david wright in face of mlb

  • michael

    we just got Curtis granderson

  • michael

    next years free AGENCY THERES Hanley RAMIREZ,JJ HARDY, Jed lowrie and Asdrubal Cabrera and the oldest one out of all of them is JJ hardy and hell be 32 at the end of this season or else well see at the trade Deadline

  • KennyandtheMets

    I understand that some very good SS will be FAs NEXT YEAR. However, I want to see this team start winning THIS YEAR.
    Also, I don’t believe that the Wilpons will pony up for a big time veteran SS next year. They will still be in major debt and I doubt they will pay what those guys will cost. Guts like Niese and Murphy will be making more money and the young stud pitchers will have to be paid down the road as well.

  • michael

    well see what happens