23
2013
Wheeler’s Breaking Bats, Fulmer Is Walking Around, Evans Ignites A Comeback
An article by Teddy Klein
I spent most of the day on the backfields at Port St. Lucie yesterday and had some fun watching many of the minor leaguers already in camp, many of whom are reporting early. I made a few small notes I wanted to share with the readers on MMO, but mostly wanted to pass along a significant health update on one of our top prospects.
As most of the readers here know, 19-year old righthander Michael Fulmer injured his knee two weeks ago while working out at PSL.
The Mets’ supplemental pick from the 2011 First year Player Draft, had to undergo surgery to repair a torn meniscus in his right knee at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York.
Meniscus injuries can be tricky sometimes especially for pitchers and even more so when it’s on the leg you land on after you deliver a pitch. Recovery times can range from three to six to ten weeks, and every case is unique.
While there has been no official update from the team, I saw Michael Fulmer today and I’m happy to report that by all accounts, the surgery went well.
As Fulmer walked around the team’s complex this afternoon, the stitches on his leg were still very visible, but it looks as though he’s doing fine and I’m hearing a timetable for his return is about a month and a half. That sounds about right, and there’s no point to rushing him back.
Fulmer posted a 2.74 ERA in 21 starts for Low-A Savannah last season and showed great confidence in his pitches and good command. In 108 innings pitched he struck out 101, while walking 38. It was good to see such a top talent in good spirits and recovering just fine.
Notes:
There were two games on the backfields yesterday, both A-Ball teams, Groups 3 & 4 were playing games right alongside each other so I had the opportunity to watch both games, and key in on some of the players that I really wanted to get a closer look at.
For Group 4 (Savannah), I watched Miller Diaz throw today. Diaz had great poise on the mound, and his pitches looked great. Also playing for Savannah today were Vicente Lupo who everyone is very curious about, but come away impressed. Wuilmer Becerra, who was the other prospect the Mets got back for R.A. Dickey got an at-bat and grounded out. Branden Kaupe looked solid defensively at second, but didn’t get to see Gavin Cecchini. All of these players are unlikely to start at Savannah, except for possibly Cecchini.
I also caught a glimpse of Rainy Lara who pitched for Group 3 (St. Lucie) and I liked what I saw, this kid is solid.
There was some nice buzz and excitement during that game as it drew to an end. The score was tied at 1-1 in the 8th and Phillip Evans came to the plate with the bases loaded. Evans slashed a single which brought home one run to break the deadlock. Brandon Brown followed Evans with a bases-clearing triple that he laced into the left field corner. With the score now 5-1, heavy rains suddenly poured down and both games were called.
I hope you enjoyed the update and you can look forward to more updates like these in the coming days. I’m hoping to make some time for a few exclusive interviews as well…
Update 3/23
I’m actually watching Zack Wheeler right now as all four minor league groups are playing a pair of intrasquad games today. Groups 1 vs 2, and Groups 3 vs 4.
They’re clocking Wheeler at 94-98 and he’s already broken two bats. Two of the MLB scouts who are here told Adam Rubin the following:
Scout 1 said: “He’s got four pitches.”
Scout 2 said: “And they’re all plus, plus, plus, plus.”
“He’s really good … and we’re not getting him,” one scout said with a laugh, noting the Mets would never trade the future ace.
Full recap later, heading to major league camp now…
About the Author: Teddy Klein
A Westchester Native, I am a senior at The New School studying for an Undergraduate degree in Social Work. I am a lifelong Mets fan with a background in minor league internships for scouting in both the Dominican Summer Leagues and the Brooklyn Cyclones. Every day consists of reading up on players, following games, reading scouting reports, and completing my studies. I eat, drink and sleep prospect information. My twitter handle is @TK_MMO. (For reference to all commenters, I only reply to positive comments and respectful questions.)
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Thx for the update Teddy. Fingers crossed on a full recovery for Fulmer.
Wow, great info! Thanks for the update and feed us more!
Glad to hear that Fulmer is walking around and so soon after the surgery. Can you explain why the Mets never give timely injury updates? Especially on top prospects. Any word on Steven Matz? Thanks and let me just say your addition to this site is a big plus. There’s a nice size contingent of fans like me that crave any news on the Mets minors and the well has run dry at our regular haunts.
Minors information is difficult to come by in general, less demand, most eyes are on the major league level. Haven’t heard on matz, didn’t see him today, hopefully tomorrow.
Nice update. I’m guessing no Muno or Vaughn sightings?
They were in group 2, I’m guessing. Group 1 and 2 (buffalo and Binghamton) were in Jupiter. They trade teams and levels, group 1&2 In Jupiter against Miami, their group 3&4 teams in PSL. Switches off a bunch.
Muno and Vaughn were playing in the group 1 vs 2 games today, I saw vaughn nail one that went a few feet foul.
Hey Teddy, how does this work? Are all the minor league players there now or are these just the ones from STEP? Also how many groups are there? I only thought there were only three and you mentioned Group 4. Every spring this is so confusing and nobody seems to know how it works. Great news on Fulmer. Looks like we dodged a bullet.
I’m actually not sure, I interviewed Robert Whalen a couple weeks ago, who reports in April. Group 4 is supposedly savannah, but most of these guys aren’t making savannah, they’re essentially playing beyond their level because most of AAA is on the MLB roster. So the trickle down roster management happens. All I know is that there’s 4 groups and essentially savannah is group 4 or people going into spring training.
*extended spring training
do the short season guys usually report this early, or do they essentially wait for the FS leagues (and majors) to start to free up enough room for the rookies, SS guys, newly in from the Dominican leagues, etc.?
Not usually.
I think it’s mostly step guys and DSL imports & IFA’s. while American players report Aptil 13th.
hopefully Fulmer is back in time to make most of the season and hit his innings limit (probably 130-140 I would guess?)
Thanks for the update.
Hopefully more updates to follow.
Rainy and Lupo= 2 more players people are going to praise Omar for in the future. Very promising kids.
Lupo I heard is sick. Big time power
Hopefully, he’ll be just as good with the glove.
Always take DSL and VSL stats with a grain of salt. 90% of the players in that league don’t even reach AAA. Let’s see how he does in the states in the GCL or Kingsport.
Diaz looks really good though. Why it took Omar 5 years to finally get some good Latin kids is a bit odd, but he certainly has provided our system with fabulous talent, nonetheless.
It takes 5-7 years to develop IFAs. Omar arrived in 2005. He didn’t have a ton of money to work with, yet he does have some talent working their way through. Injuries robbed FMart of having a shot to be a bigtime player. It’s what it is. Omar’s final grade has yet to determined. Remember, 5-7 years for IFAs. Omar left in 2010. There’s a good chance he will be responsible for many prospects up until 2017.
I got quotes on him from officials, they’ll be up soon.
Great minor league coverage here at MMO.
Nice to see Wheeler isn’t making me look bad…
“Wheeler states that he likes to pitch inside, and if the two seam is used effectively on the inside half to righties, opposing hitters will be going through a ton of lumber.”
Wheeler’s breaking bats? Nice.
Looking forward to watching this kid continue his development. I like that it’s not even the Mets that are hyping this kids stuff but others around baseball when they get a chance to see him.
Hi Teddy,
Thanks so much for the minor league insight. It was great. Channel 11 showed momentary glimpses of that intra-squad game so who knows, maybe we even caught a glance of you on TV.
The scouts are doing the right thing – looking at his mechanics and his velocity, breaks, etc. One could not make any other type of assessment based on the competition he was facing.
But Rubin didn’t mention anything about his control. Did you notice him hitting the corners of the plate and high and low portions of the strike zone with consistency and if it seems his pitches outside were deceptive or obvious they were going to miss the plate?
If you did see me, i was sitting next to the middle table in a white shirt, i’m a really small guy I was directly behind the plate sitting next to the players.
honestly, i couldn’t tell from behind the plate at that time, his control wasn’t great (I have some game notes with his pitches from the 2nd & 3rd innings that i shared with Joe) but the movement made him deceptive. also couldn’t see so many pitches because I was writing it down and looking for velocity. He was doing great with both the slider and curve, I forget which got more people out.
also 2 things to note: he made Aderlin Rodriguez look plain silly with a slider down and away.
Other thing to note was that I didn’t see Rubin or any other beat writer there really. It was all scouts and players, all saying wow and reiterating the velocity.
Hi Teddy,
Channel 11 did show a brief video of Wheeler as he was pitching and T do remember the table with some people…. the table stuck out in my mind because there were obviously no stands and it appeared so much like a semi-pro surrounding rather than part of a spring training complex.
It’s difficult for some of us to be objective when it comes to Zack for we would be less than honest if not admitting we still harbor bad feelings regarding the manner in which he was obtained (the front office going to throw the team under the bus to cut spending no matter they were in the wildcard race, playing at a .575 clip more more than half a season after that horrible start). But that is also unfair to Zach.
So other readers should know that while I still have mixed feelings I am also trying to be objective – not negative – when asking this question based on your observations that his control was not great but his pitches were indeed deceptive. With his lack of control did he appear to be deceptive enough to fool major league hitters who can recognize wildness and not be fooled? It doesn’t matter how great one’s stuff is if he can’t hit the spots he wants to on a regular basis.
Any thoughts?
Joey, if Wheeler was called up today he would be better than 80% of the pitchers in the league, if not more. He will be the ace of the Mets staff in a couple of years barring any injuries.
Hi Mitch,
He no doubt has the potential and has shown he has the stuff, sans control problems. But curious – how AT THIS TIME (not down the road) would he be better than eighty percent of the pitchers in the majors with the wildness he has? In triple-A he issued 16 walks, two wild pitches and hit one batter in 33 innings. And in 116 innings in double-A he walked 43 batters and hit eleven more along with 6 wild pitches?
Those figures will only get worse in the majors where he is facing established hitters who have proven they can hit major league pitching unlike those in the minors who have either yet to prove they can or have been sent down because they can’t.
I did feel it was necessary to again bring up my emotional background regarding this so to show I was aware of my own biases and trying to put them aside so there could not be a question of having ulterior motives. The question I asked Teddy is legitimate because scouts have said he has to improve on his control along with his secondary breaking pitch needing more work.
I think we ALL need to recognize a need to be objective on this issue. From day one many had already handed him a place in the starting rotation with a great career – even though he was only in low-A ball at the time. That’s why I put my emotions aside on this due to my strong feelings against the circumstances in which he was acquired. Yes, at this point he is ranked number eleven on Baseball America’s prospect list. That’s why I did not dispute that he has the potential and the stuff. But don’t forget, Mike Pefrey was ranked as number twenty by the same organization while Harvey was number 54 and Niese 77.
Just recognize the jury is still out not about his potential but as far as to what that will translate onto a major league level. I said he has the stuff – it’s just the control to be concerned about.
Joey, I understand you’re concerned about his control, and I have to say that what I said about him bring better than 80% of the pitchers in the league is what is being said about him by scouts, not my own thoughts. There is little doubt in my mind that Wheeler would start with the Mets, but they want the extra year of control.
Hi Mitch,
But don’t forget, it’s also the scouts and the coaches within the organization who are saying the same thing about his control and secondary pitches…..
And in the attached, Rich Wilson writes:
“First the good stuff. Zack Wheeler has a chance to be a very special pitcher. He has a great fastball/curveball combination with good command and excellent pitching mechanics. However, his change-up is below average and still needs work.:
http://prospect361.com/nl-team-prospects/new-york-mets/
In the preface to his interview with Zack, David Laurila of Fan Graphes noted:
“Zack Wheeler hadn’t been pitching particularly well when he agreed to do this interview late last season. During his previous seven outings — three with Double-A Binghamton and four with Triple-A Buffalo — he’d allowed 28 runs in 35 innings. Deep into his second full professional season, the New York Mets’ best prospect seemed to have hit a wall.”
I like the way Wheeler approaches things as the attached interview shows.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/qa-zack-wheeler-mets-future-ace/
I’m just saying that there is more work to be done and that he is not ready yet for that big step, let alone guaranteed to be a great starter. Not saying he won’t either – he’s got tremendous potential and if he learns to overcome that control problem – watch out national league hitters. But at this point I wonder if it’s the scouts saying he has the POTENTIAL to be better than 80 percent of the pitchers in the majors as opposed to saying he already is. After all, such statements can’t be made without even having thrown one pitch in a regular season game. Even Stausberg was talked in terms of the future tense when he was called up and seen on national television when making his major league debut, not the present one.
I can ALREADY say that Zack is a very very special pitcher.
And I won’t resent trading away Beltran for him, even if I knew he would bounce back the next year. He wasn’t doing well in the years following up to the trade if you remember, with injuries, so seeing that he was traded for an amazing pitching prospect was awesome. Who actually knew he was going to bounce back and be an all star? No one. The front office doesn’t have crystal balls, and after watching zack myself, and hearing the players and coaches just amazed,
I’d say it was the way to go.
they got wheeler for 2 months of Beltran in a losing season. Carlos was a FA at the end of the year no matter what.
what he did the following year is frankly irrelevant, since the mets would have had to fight for him in the FA market anyway just like they did (well, they might not have gotten into the fight, but the situation was exactly the same).
If Carlos had retired after 2011, or blew out his knees in ST and never played again, it would not change the wheeler situation vis a vis Beltran 1 iota.
What about this is so hard to understand? I really don’t understand the need to make this deal less than it was. Sandy hasn’t made that many great moves but this one 30/30 GMs would have done.
You also forget that during a jump, your skills are put to the test. As well, you forget that players have an entire offseason to work out the kinks, and looking upon what scouts have said, all his pitches are “plus plus”
When worried about control, the context is a spring training game, I did not see all the pitches, and the fact that Niese, who is the opening day starter, mind you had a lapse of control not 2 days ago in Jupiter, walking 3 people in an inning. Wheeler’s control has improved greatly since joining the mets, and it didn’t really rise too much if I remember when he went to AAA last year.
He’s ready, and he knows it.
No matter how many times you say it won’t make it true. The paid almost all if Beltrans contract. It had nothing to do with money as he was a FA any way. You could say that it signaled they weren’t going to pay that money the next year but that was already clear. Sandy hasn’t made that many good moves but this one I can’t understand the need to deny it.
Hi Trs,
It was beyond just saving $2.1 million with Beltran. It was cutting corners on every way feasible so the Mets would not be put into the position for a THIRD time of not being able meet their expenses. Look at that $2.1 million in connection to ALL the other cost saving measures they took – and that includes signing the most inexpensive players they could over the winter and – the ten percent cut back on all non-baseball matters in the organization, the drop in revenue, the fact that during the 2011 season Fred Wilpon put in $38 million of his OWN money into the club AND that even David Einhorn pulled out of his initial deal.
Also, how many other teams simply let go of players they suspect are going to walk at the end of the year if they have a legit shot at the wildcard (and last season when the team actually led the wildcard, it’s bullpen weaknesses were starting to catch up on them and nothing done to help shore that up,either)? Also, Beltran was on record as saying he wanted to end his career as a Met so he wasn’t just a sure walk-away – and we just cannot dismiss that as lip-service since he told that to Sandy during their meetings that past winter. Then, bottom line comes from Sandy saying he would have then considered monetary compensation for Beltran if he could not get the prospects he wanted.
Beltran was a goner. If under the circumstances the Mets were able to land a potential like Wheeler, then good power to them. But that doesn’t change the fact that Beltran was gone – they needed to save every dime they could – the fiscal situation was that dire and is still on shaky ground.
To say it wasn’t because of money in light of all this evidence is simply refusing to accept an unalterable conclusion.
Except for the fact that trading Beltran didn’t save any money. We can talk about the Wilpon’s finacial resources all we want but the Beltran trade wasn’t directly related to that, it was just a good baseball move plain and simple.
Not signing someone with the money they no longer had to pay Beltran DID save them money…
Money we say was DUMPED from Payroll!
And yet re-inested none of his portion of the Payroll….
They DUMPED his Salary from the Payroll…Whatever they spent on him went to the Wilpons instead the following year!
Like it or not a Payroll dump has little to do with what the players you have are owed it’s what you spend on the team from one year to the next!
the paid the majority of his salary for the year. If it was a salary dump, by definition, they would have gotten the other team to pay it. Just would have gotten a nobody back.
in effect, they used Beltrans salary to “buy” Wheeler, but they still spent more that year than they had to. So no salary dump.
What do you call going from a 140 Mil Payroll to a 100Mi payroll if NOT a Salary Dump?
They DUMPED HIS SALARY!
They did not spend it on a NEW PLAYER!
They DUMPED his salary from the PAYROLL!
Simply by typing words in capital letters doesn’t mean you get to invent new definitions of a previously well defined phrase. Beltran wasn’t a salary dump, what the Mets did in the off-season is cut salary which was going to happen regardless if Beltran was traded or not.
And simply saying because Beltran wasn’t due to make money doesn’t mean they didn’t dump his salary from the BUDGET now does it?
If you guys worked as much on your REALITY as you work on your Semantically obsessed defenses of what Sandy has done we would all agree this team has put money in front of performance and that would be the end of it!
Our Payroll WAS 140 MIl one year…and 100 Mil the next…
they DUMPED PAYROLL!
How they went about dumping it doesn’t matter…What they paid to field a team one year was CUT the next…the money they used to spend DUMPED!
Really, you’re going argue over basic common sense things now? No money was dumped from the balance sheet because it was never spent to begin with, there was no contract or obligation to Beltran for 2012. The 2012 budget was cut because of Wilpon’s financial mess but that does not involve Beltran any more than it involved Perez or Castillo. Contracts end (except for Bonilla) and in no universe does trading a player for a top prospect with absolutely no salary relief constitute a salary dump. Like I said you don’t get change the definition of terms at your whim. If you want to talk about a salary dump then Francisco Rodriguez would be a salary dump or years ago Cedeno and Burnitz, Beltran doesn’t fall under that umbrella.
Common sense says going from a 140 Million Payroll to a 100 Mil Payroll is a Payroll DUMP!
Twist all you want but that’s what COMMON sense calls it when you dump that kind of money from your payroll budget!
Just as deciding NOT to restock some product in your store is considered DUMPING INVENTIRY!
lowering salary year to year by not spending money from expiring contracts is simply lowering salary. Which changes year to year anyway.
a “salary dump” by definition is trading a player for nothing back simply to get rid of the salary in the current year that you are on the hook for.
the Beltran deal was NOT a salary dump. what they did the next year with overall roster and payroll had nothing, nada, zilch to do with trading Beltran. Would have been the same if they kept him.
hope that clears it up.
cutting payroll by a THIRD is a Payroll Dump in every dictionary EXCEPT the Encyclopedia Alderson Exscusicus!
“Common sense says going from a 140 Million Payroll to a 100 Mil Payroll is a Payroll DUMP!”
Common sense only tells you that if you decide to drop the sense part and the common part as well. Crackheads wouldn’t even tell you that. A retarded chimp would tell you that going from 140 to 100 would be a cut, a slash if you want to be dramatic, or a tightening of the belt if you’re an executive, not a dump, of course then he’d fling his poo at you.
The chimp, not the executive.
Amazingly enough to dump something, it actually has to exist. You can dump a girl, you dump some trash, you can’t dump spending that was never actually spent.
“Twist all you want but that’s what COMMON sense calls it when you dump that kind of money from your payroll budget!”
Actually that would be called a budget cut. Something that had no bearing on Beltran one way or another because his contract expired. It was over, finito, gone, finished, ended.
“Just as deciding NOT to restock some product in your store is considered DUMPING INVENTIRY!”
No it really isn’t. Dumping inventory is selling off inventory at a loss and before you come back with something nonsensical here is the actual definition:
4. To place (goods or stock, for example) on the market in large quantities and at a low price.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dump
This will be my last post on the matter because you seem incapable of ever admitting that you may have a lack of understanding about a subject, but you are wrong. And it’s not just because I say so or because every dictionary on the planet says so or that everyone else who has ever used the term ‘salary dump’ says so, it’s that reality says so and amazingly enough reality has no need to capitalize random words in order to make its point.
“Amazingly enough to dump something, it actually has to exist”
Newsflash…..
It EXISTED in 2011!
Was DUMPED by the time 2012 rolled around….
Only a Crackhead would continue to try and convince people that what happened between 2011 and 2012 was NOT a Payroll dump!
But you continue right on down that Alderson Excusologist path…
It’s clear that’s the only reason why you are continuing to argue what everyone here pretty much accepts….
We Dumped Beltran’s, Reyes, and K-Rod’s Salary from the 2012 payroll by not re-investing that money they were getting into the team!
You refuse to see that as the truth well then Pass the pipe and the blowtorch to the Retarded chimp…You have had more than enough…..
I’m not sure there’s many Met fans that agree with your assessment, Joey.
Beltran wasn’t going to be back, for 2 reasons.
- The Mets had little money to spend that off season and too many holes to fill.
- Even if they had the money, they would have had to overpay as I don’t believe Beltran had any desire to come back to the Mets. Not with the way they handled his injury and threw him under the bus on that surgery. I’m not even sure overpaying would have got it done.
That being said, getting Wheeler for 2 months of Beltran was certainly one of this FO’s better moves. They fact that Beltran waived his no trade clause speaks of wanting to get out of town sooner rather than later as well.
I don’t know how any Met fan could not applaud this trade knowing we got the better end of that deal, even if Wheeler turns out to be just a middle of the rotation type pitcher.
Hi srt,
Please remember that Beltran did not waive his no-trade clause until after the trade was agreed to in principal by the Mets and Giants. Knowing the Mets wanted to get rid of him, he let the team know he would only waive his no-trade clause if he was going to be sent to a contender. That is not a sign of one wanting to get out of New York as it was one seeing the handwriting on the wall, as we all did.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/6808543/carlos-beltran-accepts-trade-san-francisco-giants-says-goodbye-new-york-mets
Carlos refused trades to the Pirates and Cleveland in which both clubs were willing to take over all his entire remaining salary from the Mets. If he refused a trade to both those teams, that also means the front office was asking him for permission. Rumors had it that Marte was one of the offers.
Just a thought but if Marte was part of a trade for Beltran, would we have a potentially brighter future with him in the outfield than Wheeler in the rotation – considering where we have holes and where we hopefully, do not.
What this also infers is that Zack was the best offer from the seven teams in which Carlos agreed to waiver his no-trade clause. The Mets might have gone other routes than the Giants. They did have serious enough talks with Beltran to ask him about the tribe and the Bucs. Wonder what the decision would have been had the Mets had both options – Wheeler and pay $4 million or Marte and save $6.1 million. We will never know.
I also doubt Carlos would sit well with many of his new teammates had he gone to Pittsburgh – after saying that being swept at home by the Pirates was an embarrassment.
http://blog.triblive.com/dejan-kovacevic/2011/07/27/beltran-refused-to-waive-no-trade-for-pirates/#.TjB-CpsnM0A.twitter
http://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/beltran_on_the_block_what_can_the_mets_score/5619517
Honestly, I think you’re a little off with the whole Starling Marte point. Yes, we have an outfield problem, and we all get it. But, at that time, and of course now still, 10 out of 10 of any type of baseball insider you will ever meet, scouts, execs, gm’s, etc. would prefer Wheeler over Marte, then and now, and there is/was no contest.
Hi Teddy,
Of course, I mentioned Marte as a reference. But even though Wheeler could be more the pticher than Marte the hitter, whom do we need more? What area do we have an abundance of options and which area don’t we?
Of course, I did say that with Carlos only waiving his no trade clause for seven teams, Sandy was then limited with whom he can pick. So I was just wondering had the Mets been able to make a deal with Pittsburgh or Cleveland as well as the Giants, which one would they have decided on?
All just hyothetical because they weren’t in that position. But if they were, it would have been a great position to be in and who knows?
Hey Teddy! Any idea where Phil Evans is going to play this year? Will he be playing SS at Savannah? I still have high hopes for that kid.
Either Savannah or St Lucie, with my money on Savannah. Cecchini is in Brooklyn most likely, for all those wondering.
Evans was playing with group 3, which was the Savannah group. He looked promising on the field. Didn’t play today though, might have been with group 2.
Hi Teddy,
The Met cameras showed after he left the game Daniel Murphy jog behind a bunch of guys sitting at that table behind home plate. Did we see you today and not know it?
No, not this time. I was watching the other side, for our IFA shortstop.
Hi Teddy,
How about in the future you tweak us on MMO to let us know where you are sitting. Then we can have a contest of trying to pick out which one you are (only open to those who don’t know you, of course).
I think that would be fun for those who have a DVR and can freeze frame the picture and zoom in to see who was wearing the “MMO” tee-shirt!
The Mets traded Carlos Beltran in a salary dump. They EASILY could have re-signed him after the season. They needed a power hitting middle of the order RF. They didn’t because they were DUMPING payroll. They reduced payroll despite the fact they needed a player of his productivity. They still do actually. They didn’t trade Beltran because he wasn’t productive. The Mets traded him because they were being cheap for lack of a better word.
There seems to be a lot of creative prose for what the Mets did with Beltran. This was nothing more than the Mets dumping a player they didn’t want to give money to in the future. That’s called a salary dump.
If you really think that a Boras guy (the same guy who said the Mets were “shopping in the fruits and nuts category”) would’ve been “easily resigned” with the Mets issues, then you are living in a dream world. Beltran wasn’t coming back anyhow.
That Boras guy signed for 13 Million…
That’s less than we gave Wright on a per year basis…
This isn’t an argument whether the Mets were going to re-sign a Boras guy or not. The Mets decided to trade Beltran and not fill in his contract with a player of equal value. That’s salary dumping. The rest is merely semantics. They decided they didn’t want to pay Beltran 13M the following year so they traded him. The player they traded him for a was a minor leaguer who didnt require paying at the big league level. That’s salary dumping.
That makes no sense. You are admitting they could have re-signed him but then say the trade was a salary dump. If the trade itself was a salary dump they wouldn’t have paid any of his salary.
Now you can say they cheaped out in the offseason when they should have re-signed him but that doesn’t change the trade. The trade was two months of Beltran for our top prospect.
The trade was made not to immediately improve the club. The trade was made in order to reduce payroll the following season. I don’t understand why people are arguing this one.
Did they have to re-sign him if they didn’t trade him?, did they pay most of his salary? Did they still have a chance to sign him after the trade?
Hi Trs,
One has to look at the trade in perspective to all of the actions being taken. It was part of an entire organization down-sizing, a quick and drastic one needed for there were no more loans from MLB, or bridge loans which MLB would have approved and, as we now know, Wilpon had to put in $38 million of his money in order to keep things going. The Mets were in debt and did not have the cash flow to meet it. That $2.1 million they saved with Beltran was a necessary part of the whole.
There were offers from Cleveland and Pittsburgh with which both clubs were willing to take over Carlos’ entire salary and the Mets asked Beltran to waive his no-trade clause in which he didn’t. Though that doesn’t mean the Mets were then going to take the up the tribe or the bucs on their offers we do know they were seriously enough considering it and did ask Carlos to waive his no trade clause BEFORE they asked him to do it with San Francisco.
Every move made had been with the goal of spending as little as possible. Competitive integrity took a back seat. Does one believe the Wilpons would not have agreed to that absurd $17 million vetting clause if they didn’t think they would have had the money to cover it? If they kept KRod, that would have meant $55 million coming out of the owner’s own pocket. If they kept just Beltran, that would have meant $48.1 million coming from other coffers.
*** meant $40.1 Million if they kept Carlos, not $48.1
Salary dump can also be trading away a big contract and get nothing back in return. Kind of what the Mets did with Franky Rodriquez, getting him to Milwaukee so his vesting option wouldnt kick in.
Paying the rest of Beltran’s contract to get the best prospect from the other team is not a salary dump.
Obviously not. Now one could make a case that after the season was over they dumped his salary by not spending. I don’t agree with that wording but I can see that side. However, the trade itself, by definition can’t be a salary dump.
What’s the difference with the trade for K-Rod? The Mets paid his salary as well. Same premise. They didn’t plan on paying K-Rod the following season. They didn’t want to. That’s a salary dump. Neiher of those trades were made with the notion of immediately helping the big league club that year or the following. In essence, the trades were made to cut salary. That’s called salary dumping. The Mets didn’t want to pay Carlos Beltran any longer, so they dumped his salary on another team in a trade. They left the burden to re-sign him on the SF Giants.
Not just that…but eating Jason Bay’s remaining salary was not on the table.
If they had the stomach to do that at the end of 2011…and merely resigned Beltran to a 2 year/26 mil contract….
just keeping Pagan and Beltran….our OF would’ve been…
LF – Duda
CF – Pagan
RF – Beltran
w/ young kids like Jovany and MDD and Kirk and the rest as depth…not as starters