3
2013
Santana Steps On A Mound, Not Happy To Be The Center Of Attention This Morning
An article by 
Updated on 3/3
As most of us expected, Johan Santana has shown up to camp and is none too happy about being the center of attention this morning according to Andy Martino of the Daily News.
A displeased Santana had this to say to reporters, ”What is spring training for? Training.”
While true, spring training is for training, Santana hasn’t trained or thrown a pitch off a mound since February 19.
Adam Rubin adds that a day after Sandy Alderson suggested it could be 10 days until Johan Santana stepped on a mound, “the southpaw decided to do so Sunday morning.”
It looks like those comments may have given Santana some extra motivation to get back to pitching – especially after concerns about his conditioning were leaked last night – and not in a good way.
This “non-story” is the “big story” in Mets camp today.
Look for some player reactions to start surfacing… And I expect Collins to speak on this some more at some point today or tomorrow, if only to try and squash it.
More to come…
Original Post 3/2
The Mets believe ace pitcher Johan Santana wasn’t in pitching shape when Mets camp began, which is what led to his shutdown early in camp, reports Jon Heyman of CBS Sports.
The team has found no soundness issues with his arm, beyond him not being ready to go. He’s working hard now so he won’t miss his Opening Day start, which is in jeopardy.
“The arm seems to be fine, he just was not in pitching shape when he arrived,” Mets general manager Sandy Alderson said by text.
The Mets were surprised Santana wasn’t in pitch shape, and couldn’t quite understand why Santana thought he could pitch for Venezuela in the WBC when they determined he wasn’t ready to throw for them.
Wow, now this is quite the situation we have here. What does Santana have to say about this? Nothing yet, but his agent Peter Greenberg told Heyman the following:
“He tried to rest physically and mentally this winter and use spring training to get in shape. The goal was to be ready by Opening Day or as close as possible. Mentally, as much as physically, he was burned out. He decided he needed a full break.”
You may recall that I tried on more than a few occasions to get some sort of status on Santana ‘s health this offseason, but got nowhere. Something seemed odd to me about the situation. When Santana didn’t even show up at the New York BBWAA Dinner where he was supposed to be the guest of honor, I knew something was amiss. But honestly, I had no idea it was anything like this.
Now that we have a little more information to go on, my first reaction is to say that I’m very disappointed in Santana – a Met whom I’ve always admired and had great respect for.
Considering the size of his paycheck and the fact that he’s been resting and recuperating since last August, his state of unpreparedness is quite inexcusable to me. Maybe that’s wrong of me to say, but I can’t hide my feelings on the matter.
This was supposed to be the first Spring in five years that Santana was coming to camp healthy and without any offseason surgery. It was supposed to be the Spring where he showed up to camp in the best shape since he became a Met. The fact that he showed up out of shape and ill-prepared is completely unacceptable.
“A fatigued left shoulder” after tossing barely 100 pitches since arriving to camp? A “lack of arm strength” and it’s only March 2nd?
What irks me most is that he did this knowing full well that the Mets had traded R.A. Dickey this offseason, and that the team would be relying on him more than ever before.
Forget the fact that Jonathan Niese may or may not get the Opening Day start if he isn’t ready to pitch – that’s not the damned point and it’s the furthest thing from my mind right now.
Santana has to man-up and tell us what happened here.
He owes it to the New York Mets, who are paying him a king’s ransom.
He owes it to Sandy Alderson and the front office, who have been blindsided by the situation.
He owes it to Terry Collins and his teammates, who expected veteran leadership from the undisputed ace of the team.
But most of all, he owes it to the fans, who have always given him unquestioned support and deserved better from him than this.
This situation is totally unacceptable.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 23 | 18 | .561 | - |
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| Phillies | 20 | 22 | .476 | 3.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 23 | .410 | 6.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 31 | .262 | 12.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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Right on, Santana screwed up big time!
Maybe he’s read all the prognostications about the season and figured, why bother? =P Maybe he’s mad at Sandy too. At any rate, you are right though Joe D., it’s unacceptable
I hope he pitches well in the first half so they can Beltran his ass out of here.
Listen… though it may sound like bad news now, we all have to remember that this guy absolutely broke down in the middle of the season. I do not see this as a bad thing. I rather have Johan peak towards the start/ middle of the season rather than be ready to pitch in a fricken spring training game in February, or even March. This is a LONG season and the media needs to stop over reacting to this. If Johan misses a start or two in April, who cares?? Take a breath, relax, and look at the big picture. We need Johan in July and August, not February and March.
khe has taken a shitload of money from this team. And given very ittle back. I don’t think there is anything wrong with saying you expect a little dedication for your shekels. Remember that everyone else is watching him lie around doing nothing. Do you like seeing that in your work place. Frankly, I expect very little from him this year, and they prpobably expect less. This is more form thaan function.
Let’s face it…best case scenario for The Mets is for Santana to use ST to get into shape, start pitching towards the middle/end of April and get traded in June, because by July his season will be on the decline as every season has been since he’s been a Met. This team isn’t going anywhere in 2013/14…hope Santana starts off hot and trade him for a top prospect as early as possible.
For Johan, what does it matter to him? He is going to get a billion dollar this year whether he wins 20 or starts 1 game. He sees the team he is on, do you think he is going to over train himself in the offseason and risk an injury when he knows this is the last year of his deal? C’mon, it’s a win-win for him…no matter what, he is getting paid.
Slightly disappointed, however, that Alderson put him out there in the media for coming in out of shape. Seriously, who even remembers A) Santana won 2 Cy Young awards or B) is even on a major league roster at this point? This falls in the “who-gives-a-shit” category.
I smell some bigger issue here…its not good…
In my mind Niece should open the season…
Maybe Santana notices he has a boss who half-assed it through another off-season so why should he give extra effort. Santana has been a good soldier so far and for him to do this? If true it’s very uncharacteristic of him. If any of you were a veteran of his stature how would you feel if everyday you keep reading about how everything is focused on the farm and future and be damned the present. Maybe Santana feels more should’ve been done this off season too? Who knows.
100% agree Bayonne.
“Maybe Santana notices he has a boss who half-assed it through another off-season so why should he give extra effort”
I will give you 25.5 million reasons.
Since when does $$ guarantee effort or give a sheet?
So you don’t think being a professional athlete making $25 million dollars should be enough reason for Johan Santana to WANT to give extra effort?
I love Johan Santana. Love the guy, he gave me one of the most memorable moments as a mets fan I have ever had. But if he thinks he is EARNED the $72 million he made since 2011 (including this year salary) then he is sorely mistaken.
He doesn’t have the right to decide to “not give extra effort” to get into shape at this stage of his career and with his contract.
So if Johan were making 18 mil instead of 25…would Joe D’s reaction be any different?
I would hope not. He’s a pro athlete, why are people trying to argue that he should be allowed to not be in shape?
first off…what is …”pitching shape”?
can Johan run 100 laps ? yes
can Johan do 100 pushups? yes
can Johan go and pitch 3 innings…probably not…
and after going through surgery….why is this even an issue?
Why should he give any effort? Something called credibility and personal responsiblity. I don’t care if you make 100 million dollars or minimum wage, the ONLY thing you own in life is your credibility.
Anyone that puts forth effort that reflects upon themselves, based on someone’s action or inaction, has NO credibility.
Blah blah blah. It always comes back to your hatred for Alderson. Always. Every post. Every topic. Every issue. You find a way to tie it back to your disdain for Alderson.
Snooooooze.
aw, that bother you? Try rooting for the Mets instead of the GM.
…or try rooting for the Mets instead of against the GM
No one is rooting for the Mets on a blog….
There is only ONE way to root for the Mets…Buy a ticket and see them in person….
Anything else is merely FOLLOWING the Mets and does not qualify as ROOTING in any way shape or form!
Rooting your team on requires you to be within earshot of the team while they are playing the game!
Not when i do not believe in or support his one-size-fits all philosophy or his decisions on closing shop under the guise of rebuilding. Absolutely not. Ug, i already feel ill for even responding to you
Would you be reacting the same if this was Matt Harvey instead? This is the same bogus attitude we saw against Ruben Tejada who was bashed unmercifully on Metsblog day in and day out even though he never reported late. And then they began the Tejada watch again this Spring reminding us daily that he still hadn’t reported. I expect more from you on Metsmerized. You have always been evenhanded. I say to wait until Santana speaks to this before assuming the worst. Come on Joe D. you’ve always been a fair guy, but this seems out of place coming from you.
Roxio
“Would you be reacting the same if this was Matt Harvey instead?”
You know he would. You know we all would. If Matt Harvey showed up to PSL out of pitching shape, everybody here would be all over him for it and you know it. You really think Joe D would say “Matt Harvey isn’t in good enough shape to pitch, hooray!!!!”
Come on man
I think if Harvey showed up unprepared to the point where he may not be ready for the start of the season, Joe would be twice as mad given the position Harvey is in.
“He tried to rest physically and mentally this winter and use spring training to get in shape. The goal was to be ready by Opening Day or as close as possible. Mentally, as much as physically, he was burned out. He decided he needed a full break.”
Burned out from what? He’s made 40 starts in three years? He had a seven month break? What the hell is his agent talking about?
Great post!
Go do Physical Therapy on your pitching arm, for a year+, to see if you’ll still be able to take part in the only career you’ve known. Mentally Brutal. That’s a fact.
I guess what confuses me the most is if Johan wanted to pitch in WBC wouldn’t he do his best to get into shape for that?
It’s still early, it’s not like he came to camp 50 lbs overweight. He’s entering the twilight of his career and he’s likely a 1 year contract player from this point on – so realistically he’s hurting himself more than the team. I love his leadership but this also gives guys like Niese a chance to step up in the clubhouse
I just hope we don’t do to Niese what we did to Pelf and EXPECT him to be an ace just because Santana isn’t ready.
This guy is a professional athlete and came into the season out of shape. That means he is not doing his job. How could he think that he would just be able to show up and start throwing? I agree, Joe…unacceptable.
Johan knew he wasn’t ready for the WBC and spouted all the rhetoric about playing for Venezuela because he knew (1) he really didn;t qualify based on being on the DL at the end of last year and (2) the Mets would veto it if he was granted an exception to the DL rule. I Know he was great when he was healthy, but he is a shaod of that Santana …. I cannot wait until he is gone …. to come in to ST and no be physically fit to go is inexcuesable IMO. Right now, I expect nothing from him ….
Santana has the same agent that Reyes has. Greenberg screwed the pooch there by failing to do due diligence through a needed market analysis.and he is just on for another free ride now. Shortsighted and senseless. He must think he’s selling a commodity. He isn’t.
What everyone fails to mention is that Santana has a player option in 2014 for $25 million if he pitches 215 innings an is on the active roster for the last 30 days in this season. He had 25 million incentives to come into Spring training in shape and ready to start piling up innings. Since we know 2013 is a washout, Santana needing more time to get his strength and innings up may be a good thing for the Mets. If he pitches poorly and his trade value is nil, do we really want him to have a player option for $25 million if he gets to 215 innings?
Do you know what it takes for a pitcher to hit 200 innings these days? That option ain’t kicking in.
Not happy either JoeD, this is not the 60′s or 70′s when players came to ST to get in shape.
NoHan should of at least got into physical shape, running, riding bike, stuff maybe not related to throwing to at lest just have to stretch his arm and and stamina but to not come to ST in shape in this era of year round training and trainers is a slap in the face to team and fans, IMHO!
I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for much more of an explanation than we’ve already been given.
Not sure what to think about this, to tell you the truth.
He’s always been known as a fierce competitor. I believe that’s part of the reason he was ready to go opening day last year.
Has Santana mentally checked out already?
Was the injury, surgery, long road back rehabbing and pressure to prove he could still pitch last year too much?
Doesn’t matter if he’s playing for the World Champion Giants or the last place Astros. He’s a “professional” athlete, and should prepare himself as such. Unless there is a bigger physical issue here that’s being kept hushed up, his $25 million paycheck puts the responsibility on him to be 100% prepared when he reports to training camp. Like Joe, I am disappointed.
IF this is on the level, than yes, I’m upset by Johan’s decision to take off a winter.
However, we have to consider the course.
The last several years, the Mets FO (Wilpon and Alderson) have never been honest. They have no problem throwing someone under the bus just so they come out as the good guys
Lambasting Johan is a knee jerk reaction Joe. There is something deeper going on here…the why quotient is the missing part of the story. I’m beginning to think Santana may be suffering from depression. He seems to have lost his love of the game…maybe his inability to stay healthy his inability to be ‘the best’ has worn on him. Once a player loses that self confidence or swagger and belief in themselves in addition to their physical skills, it’s over. Maybe Johan lost both and therefore his love of the game. I need to know all the why’s from his mouth-not his agents’ before passing judgement.
Anyone taking anything coming from the New York mets at their word is kidding themselves. The Mets are just starting the same slur campaign they use on every other guy they are getting ready to move or dump. Believe the Mets at face value!!!!!!! Don’t be so silly!
Is Jon Heyman really a good source?
Carlos Beltran a man traded many a time before his time.
Johan Santana out of pitching shape. What does that mean? Is it out of shape or no arm strength after surgery. Maybe another [player who deoesn’t trust the Mets medical staff. Ike paid the price in both bad press due to leaks and bad treatment with the boot. Maybe Santana will get the boot too.
Carlos Santana so Smooth
“The Mets are just starting the same slur campaign they use on every other guy they are getting ready to move or dump.”
YUP
I disagree. Right now, Santana is behind schedule. The Mets are disappointed, you and I and every Met fan should be disappointed. But, being disappointed doesn’t mean blame, and being disappointed does not amount to a slur campaign. This could just simply be a miscalculation by Santana, not ill-intended, who wanted to maximize rest and felt he would be able to ramp it up like he did in the younger days. Time will tell, but it well can just be an overreaction if he truly is healthy and is ready to take the ball in early April. Missing opening day is no big deal. In fact, missing a couple of starts in April will only help the M erts, by greatly reducing the odds of throwing 215 innings and kicking in that 2014 option at crazy-big money.
Hi Joe,
I have to agree with you too on this one for the moment unless we get further insight into the explanation as to why. But as has been pointed out by others, spring training used to be a time for the players to get in shape and somehow they were physically ready by the time opening day arrived. So what I am really curious about is whether or not Johann is in such poor shape that he won’t be ready when the bell rings. If the goal was, as his agent suggested, to be in shape “close” to opening day instead of “by” opening day then I think it’s more than just letting down everyone involved – it’s totally unprofessional.
Mentally fatigued? If I wouldn’t accept that with Derek Jeter bowing out of the 2011 All Star game due to his quest for 3,000 hits, that in itself is indeed unacceptable for Johan as well. Physically not even to be in at least pitching shape – unless advised by doctors or trainers to take it easy during the off-season that too is unacceptable.
But there is that other possibility as you raised – it could be something more serious and the Mets are trying to cover that up for whatever reasons they deem necessary. It could be that Johann’s arm is just shot and those within the organization know it. Far fetched yes, but so was the idea of Johann coming into spring training in such poor condition.
Turning this post into another anti Sandy rant AND at the same time accusing the mets of starting a smear campaign….
This is a great post…PERIOD.
Joe D is spot on here.
Some of the comments are ridiculous. Bayonne does his usual bash Sandy routine, once again showing he doesn’t understand that not every topic has to include his negative opinions about the GM. While Just Da Damaja grasps at straws to defend a 31 million dollar athlete that decided he could mail it in this off season, by saying he’s being intentionally smeared. Hmmm, why defend this guy? Cause he pitched a no no? How do you defend laziness?
31 million should have bought the Mets a professional who kept in shape, bottom line. He doesn’t get to just show up and hope to be ready. As if the DL is an okay option to give himself a couple of extra days.
Well said.
I can still remember driving home from School and listening to the Santana trade negotiations almost break down, and require a 72 hour window or whatever it was, after negotiations with the Twins for 3 days.
I literally screamed to myself in the car when the deal became official.
I had dreams of Cy Young awards, being able to brag about have the best pitcher in the game, and making the playoffs!
Now, aside from the three hit shutout on the second to last day of the season back in 2008 that gave us hope, and the no-hitter, he will be remembered as an injury riddled pitcher who left us wanting more….
Its smart to bring him along slow. Imagine he pitched opening day 7 innings n got the win. Lets say he gets off to a great start n the mets are in the hunt for a wild card spot all the way we miss out by a game but johans option kicks in. Id rather rather him build up the arm strength n then if there happens to b big games we have a strong game pitcher.
It would actually be worth it. But the odds of him making 215 innings, even pitching all year, are very very low.
At least 31 pitchers have hit 200 innings every year since 2000 with as many as 50 doing it in a single year.
And when was the last time Santana did it? He’s got major health issues. the majority of the guys who break 200 are under 30 (yes, there are notable exceptions) and last year, only 3 of them had an ERA north of 4.
If Santana makes all 33 of his starts, he’d still have to average almost 7 innings each time out.
@Mike Lloyd
I agree with your statements….This man went from being the best pitcher in baseball to having his career threatened by injuries. His body cannot do what his mind is telling it to do, and that while frustrating to us, i’m quite sure is eating at him….Hopefully he can finish his career successfully. I know I will always be thankful for the no-hitter, his ferocious competitiveness, and his professionalism, but with that said, like most Mets fans, I expected many more wins… Let’s hope he pitches well this season to help us in the win column, and increases his trade value so maybe we can find an outfielder…. Play Ball!
I kno its a very long shot but with the mets luck id rather not put it to chance. Platers have been known to have great years in contract years. N if its anywhere near close the players union will b all over it. N with our luck his option will kick in n he’ll never pitch again.
Just like all year we will be wishing we had a nice middle of the order leftfielder. N jason bay wll b hitting 30 n 100.
On a serious note im pretty sure santana wld nvr make 200 innings. However everything seems to go against mets.
I never said I thought he’d hit 215 innings, but I sure as heck don’t want it to become an issue or a distraction if he starts piling up the innings. And no true Mets fan wants Santana to have a player option for $25 million. And as has been said, with our luck…..
Johan has also ways been a guy with lots of class and integrity. I agree with someone who mention the possibility of depression due to his body no loner being capable of what his mind wants to do. It makes sense and let’s face it, he has gone through a lot in the last 3-4 years. He gave us our first no-no and we should give him the benefit of the doubt. I’m sure he is going to address this on Monday. Lets wait and see.
Hi Mary,
You raise a good point, even though it is only hypothetical – depression. And by that I don’t mean the average bouts of up and down periods that we all go through – I mean clinical depression that could be brought on by many unresolved issues inside. Psychological problems knows no barriers – it can affect the poorest or the wealthiest of individuals.
The reason why I think you might possibly be on to something is because physical fatigue would not have caused Johann to skip that BBWAA dinner. Nor would it have caused the Mets to act in such secrecy i.e. having him toss privately in an area off-limits to the media and general public. Depression would also cause one not to care about about things important to an individual, like in this case, Johann’s physical shape despite his career depended upon it.
And we all know that many an athlete has had difficulty accepting that his career might be over. Some have become quite messed up over it. Knowing the Mets hope to dump him mid-season might have reinforced that to some extent.
Let’s all be honest. We do not know Johann. We know nothing about him personally – only the figure we see perched on the mound and in interviews. That is not the real Johann. I mean, who knew KRod was so messed up before he finally blew up in the clubhouse? Or even more tragic, the case of Donnie Moore, who killed his wife before taking his own life in 1989.
We have no idea, but you did hit on one possible point. A superstar athlete coming to grips with no longer being in the limelight and being “the man”. Let’s hope that’s not the case.
That´s actually the first thing I thought about – depression or, maybe a bit mildly the “lack of mental preperation” that was even mentioned in the post.
Can you imagine how much hard work a professional athlete has to put into all this. Especially someone like Johan Santana who didn´t receive a natural superstar skill set body such as, say, Darryl Strawberry ?
Year in, year out, Johan trained hard and harder. Getting to an elite level that nobody ever expected from him (he was a Rule V pick by the Twins and never a Top 100 overall prospect for sure).
How does it feel when – after years of grinding through injuries – you blow out your shoulder, work extremely hard over a year on a comeback, come back in good but brittle shape, grind it out and after three months of success, watch your body break down again. Your pitches not moving like they used to. Not as hard & crisp as they used to. Your arm not bouncing back as it used to on regular rest.
Especially someone like Johan – think of his 3-hit shutout in Game 161 of 2008 pitching through an injury – who always lived off his extreme mental strength may not only have lost some of the strength in his left arm but also some of the unusually intense mental strength that made him successful in the first place – besides a 93 mph fastball and arguably the best changeup in Baseball.
Heck, aging and not being able to do things like one used to be able to is tough enough for non-elite athletes to understand. How does it feel for a former superstar who has turned into an injury prone player with very ordinary stuff but a brittle body ? Stepping on a pitchers mound and losing faith in yourself to get professional hitters out with a cranky shoulder and fringe stuff after being so successful.
Leaving all the millions aside – which actually could lead to the question: “why keep doing all this, I´m set up well anyway” – in a case like Johan´s it´d be almost understandable.
Sure, the Mets have every right to feel disappointed with Johan who – including the buyout and deferred payments – takes up roughly a third of the 2013 payroll. Now would have been a great time to step things up one more time, lead a mostly young and inexperienced staff by example, etc. and live up to some of the money you were paid.
And while I´m certainly not blaming Johan for this, part of the reason why first Omar Minaya and then Sandy Alderson struggled to put a contender on the field over the past 4 seasons was due to the highly paid ace pitcher often not performing like one or not even being on the field – a grand total of 482.2 IP over the past 4 seasons (i.e. an average of about 120 innings per season) is barely more than half the innings you´d have wanted to receive here.
Again, I´ll be rooting for Johan to succeed. But it becomes less & less likely.
of course there is a possibility that there is something bigger behind all this. But, if nothing comes out, have to assume what was reported was accurate.
So of course, the question is, why?
one option, of course, is that other players in the past have effectively take a “year off” at the end of their contract (or a good chunk of one) to essentially R&R on the old teams dime, to make sure he is good to go for the next one. No indication that this is the case either or course, but it is another possibility (along with being hurt) that would go beyond just wanting to rest.
Non story to me. I expected 10 starts for the Mets anyway.
Only 10 starts? Quite the pessimist there… I thought that was my job?
The comments read like bad WFAN callers. It is undisputed he worked diligently to come back and was ready last year, but he burned out by July. He tried total rest this year and might miss a start or two. If that gets him into August or September that would be great.
Does Sandy Alderson realize a GM doesn’t have to comment on everything? It seems to be needlessly picking a fight/stirring up controversy.
I don’t believe Santana would take off being this is a contract year and he is an amazing competitor It just doesn’t make sense? As other people have already said there must be more to this that meets the eye! It would be very hard to trade him even if he is having a good year!
Nobody would give you a great prospect for a rental (except the Giants) and nobody’s
going to pick up the rest of his salary! Maybe if the mets ate his salary and thats big
maybe the mets could get a good prospect?
IMO , this is being blown way out of proportion. Johan is building arm strength, he’s a veteran that had to be shut down last season, it’s not like he fat and out of shape I’d still bet he’s opening day starter. Maybe Alderson thinks he is going at his own pace or a slower pace then Sandy wishes and is taking a public shot at him. Johan is a total competitor, he’ll be ready..
It’s march 2nd. Am I seeing something wrong with the calendar? We are a month away from baseball, see us then. What’s a little weird, is that we are criticizing a guy who’ll be out of here by june, why not mention how David Wright who is consider to be a franchise guy went to the wbc instead of having his presence in the clubhouse of a team he’s supposedly consider the “captain” the reason I bring this up is because Keith Hernandez made the statement on the telecast friday, this sounds as another double standard hating post .
What are you doing around here on a Sunday? We actually did mention Wright going to the WBC in a reader-submitted Fan Shot yesterday. It’s referred to on ESPN today and was on FOX yesterday.
First off lets get some clarity here….
Was he just “Out Of Shape” (Overweight)
Or out of “Pitching Shape” (Didn’t do a lot of throwing to keep the arm strong?)
I’m betting it’s the latter which begs the question….
Why wasn’t a guy who could not finish a season required and given a trainer to work with him over the offseason to work him out and make sure he did not HURT himself any worse than he already was?
I have no problem with him working less in the offseason and instead just playing it safe and resting the arm.
Certainly less of a problem than leaving him unsupervised and risking him doing too much, hurting or setting back the shoulder and being unavailable all season long…
They left him alone and he didn’t do his homework.
I would have a team policy that says anyone who doesn’t finish a season must submit to regular workouts with a team approved trainer to make sure he did his regimen and didn’t work out in a way that could risk further damage or setback.
And No I’m not putting this on the FO I’m just saying your paying these guys a ton of money you have the right to (and should exercise it) make sure he is fit and ready to go a year after he could not complete his contractual obligations due to health!
I´d suppose sending a trainer to work out with Santana would be like sending a trainer to practice guitar playing with Eric Clapton.
Considering what Santana makes, he can easily pay for multiple personal trainers.
And one would expect him to be able to get in shape without receiving an off-season training plan from the organization.
If this were Jennry Mejia, sure, help him out as a kid who hasn´t made a fortune in Baseball yet. But actually, it might offend a proven multi millionaire ex-superstar if you told him how to work out in the off-season.
This is certainly all on Johan – though it´d seem quite understandable with his injury history if the ultimate drive that made him the pitcher he once was has been zapped along with the strength of his left shoulder over the past few years after all the rehab and grinding and breaking down again.
If Eric Clapton had major Hand Surgery he would be ordered by his doctor to do physical therapy to get his motion back!
If he had a boss who was paying him to play under contract he would order him to as well!
I think he whole goal of Santana’s windter was rest, since he has been rehabbing over the winter for something like the last 5 years. You don’t need a trainer to rest., I suspect that even Santana himself was a little surprised at how much eroded with the non-activity for almost 6 months. He has a month and then some to ramp it up. I’d rather focus on who the hell will be playing OF on April 1.
But TJ…. Rest doesn’t mean do absoloutly nothing….
You have to use those muscles and keep them limber. Even if it’s just soft tossing.
What seems to be the issue here is not his overall conditioning but the fact he did not do any throwing at all during the winter.
And his arm and shoulder started getting sore from throwing after not throwing for a long time.
Much like your arm would be sore after playing a game of ball after not playing and throwing all winter.
They got scared thinking he was hurt only to find the reason he was sore so quick was because he didn’t keep that arm in shape by throwing a ball to keep the muscles limber.
Rest for me and you is very different for a Pro Athlete…
Rest doesn’t mean don’t throw at all for a pitcher it just means don’t throw hard.
Even if he wanted to shut down for most of the offseason he still should have at least started tossing a ball two months before ST to get the arm back up to it’s proper conditioning.
Joe D.
You best post in my book was your post on the smear campaign of R.A. Dickey. It was classic and correct:
Here you are more than disappointed with Johan Santana. Even if it is true that Santana is out of pitching shape, it is a leak to smear Santana who is pacing himself for a comeback year. Credence to a smear when you were so right with the Dickey’s smear campaign by the FO puzzling.
Joe D. you have every right to report Heyman’s story but stay neutral even if you had suspicions of something not right. This is just my humble opinion and in no way reflects anything in anyway about you personally. I enjoy this blog and thank you for it.
Hi Hotstreak,
I’m not too sure if it is part of a smear campaign because in Sandy’s defense he did nothing more than text “The arm seems to be fine, he just was not in pitching shape when he arrived” which could also be deemed as just reporting what the situation is and not meant a criticism.
But this is the position that the Mets have created for themselves for you are right, we saw it with R.A., as well as having seen it with Ike and with Jose.
And even before Sandy came on board we saw it with Beltran along with the totally uncalled for manner in which Willie was fired by having him travel to L.A. just to let him go.
So yes, Johann might not be in “pitching shape” (which I incorrectly inferred as “physical” shape) which may or may not be serious. And if Sandy’s text message was taken out of context by some, it’s only because of the behavior exhibited by both himself and the organization in the past. It’s like the boy who cried wolf – when he was being truthful nobody believed him.
That’s the shame of it all, isn’t it? There might not be a smear campaign at all but that is what this organization has come down to.
Hi Joey D.
Excellent points. Yes, there is a lack of trust and that’s sad.
Hi Hotsreak,
And if, as fans, we have that lack of trust in the front office, imagine how it must feel for the players? That’s why I feel more should take seriously how Sandy’s all-business, analytical attitude has had a negative impact on those on the field.
Yes, it seemed they gave up in late July. Why? Because it was later reported by Kevin Burkhardt that not getting any help made them feel like they were kicked in the teeth. That on top of the previous year with R.A. saying that lack of faith in them was hard to swallow. Again, whatever one wants to say about obtaining a Zack Wheeler, there is still the ill-taste of having a general manager pull out the rug from underneath you.
Many do not take that into account. How much more psychological damage has Sandy created with his moves and non moves?
And if one would instigate bad mouthing a R.A. Dickey, his former teammates know it doesn’t matter how much the bust themselves for the team this front office without the lack of a soul and understanding of simple human courtesy. No wonder last August, a still young Ike Davis called being a baseball player a “job” – it’s a reflection of the ambivalent attitude handed down to the club by those above.
Wonder once Wheeler and d’Arnaud get a taste of this through what they experience when being on the big team if the too will have such ambivalence as well as we saw it reflected in the second half last season.
One might bring up the fact that these are professionals being well paid to do their job. Even though that is true, no matter how much money one makes, it’s hard to do one’s best when not feeling appreciated for what one does. That’s the mistake so many make – forgetting that money excuses people from still feeling like human beings. Or that being six games out in the loss column with five teams ahead of them with a third of the season to go and playing at a .575 pace for more than half the season (after that horrible start) wasn’t good enough for this general manager.
These things last and do leave an impression on people. It’s not like with many of us in the office where being down can cause us to make mistakes in financial reports, engineering design, maintenance repairs or even typographical errors that we normally wouldn’t do. We still have time to correct those errors without causing any damage. When an error is committed on the playing field, there is no second chance. The damage has been done.
Again, all I’m asking is for many to take the indifference to the human element a bit more seriously and not think of it in black and white terms of simply being adults and millionaires and they should just go out and do the job the are being paid for.
This doesn’t change the fact that the get outrageous salaries amount for being an athlete compared to first responders and others who both protect us and save lives (not to mention educate). It’s just accepting that situation for what it is and then going on to remember that they are still human beings and suspect to the same feelings of hurt which affects the motivation inside all of us.
That’s not condoning them. They are also pampered and so wealthy that they can afford to act that way while we don’t have such luxury (we’ll be out of a job otherwise). That’s more the problem with what baseball has become – money has watered down the integrity of so many, whether it be in the front office or between the foul lines.
It’s only important to us because we are fans.
This is very different about leaks from obscure sources like with RA Dickey or Ike Davis.
This is Alderson going out in a public interview and openly stating that Johan wasn´t prepared to pitch. Period. And while he didn´t openly criticize Johan, you can read / listen between the lines that Alderson & the Mets are certainly very disappointed in this. And rightfully so I might add. Even if it also might be totally understandable considering what Johan has gone through over the past 5 years, all the surgeries, all the rehabs, all the new breakdowns of his body…
Let’s say the FO has a perfect right to be disappointed in Santana with his pitching fitness. Let’s even say they instructed Santana what exercises and what distance to throw and progress each mo.until ST. Let me grant you that (it really did not happen). Let’s work with that premise.
Why did the FO leak theirs disappointment in Santana’s preparation to Jon Heyman who broke the story so SA would have to clarify to the public. What good does it do. Loose lips sink ships. This vessel sure isn’t the good ship lollipop. Is Sandy Captain Hook?
Again, IMO, this is unfair ‘criticism’(if it even is that or more a story to write about for the Post to sell a few newspapers on a cold March day). We have all heard of Santana’s character and competitiveness over his career, makes no sense that’s he deliberately came to camp unwilling or unready. For a guy they had to shut down last July I’m happy he rested his arm(the wanting to pitch in WBC bothered me more this this current criticism). He’s a veteran that know his arm and has been thru a tuff surgery, the FO are paying him big bucks so maybe it was venting leaking out, I don’t know. If Santana has to pitch the 5th game of the season instead of opening day and believes he is preparing his arm best way, I’d prefer that. I’m giving Santna a pass..as this criticism will pass..
$$$$$$$ does strange things ….he also knows he’s on the way out ,,,,see ya!
What remains to be seen/ heard is for Santana to step up and say something about his not being in shape. What’s the point in going ballistic at this point? Joe D, yes there is some explaining to do and yes, Santana owes his team for their support throughout his contract but your article is going to create just the type of frenzy amongst the fans and of course this site that is unnecessary. It’s a good article and one worth reading for fans so that they discuss the possibilities of how this came about…
Did Santana rest too long in the off season…not running and allowing his weight to jump 10 pounds or so?
Did he see the overall opinions that he was not going to be back in 2014 no matter what?
Maybe he has lost faith that he will recover enough to be even a glimpse of his former self and that being a warrior for so long was not going to save him any more?
An athlete’s psyche can be a delicate instrument of self confidence. He was once considered the best pitcher in baseball, recently had the biggest moment of success that a pitcher can have personally but now realizes that it is almost over for him. I suggest we don’t jump to conclusions just yet
Until we get some clarification on this…I guess this subject will be beaten to death too!
Alan, thanks for the comment. But as you know, these are the Mets, this is New York, and everything gets beaten to death…. Ever since Joe DiMaggio left Marilyn Monroe….
At Metsmerized, every Mets issue is fair game and that’s how we’ve always done it and always will. Have a good one.
and now with the public outcry…Santana goes from being 10 days away to 1 day away…
So the fact that he showed up and his fastball couldn’t get passed 71 mph doesn’t concern you? You think that’s a non-story? He’s supposed to be our ace this season and Dillon Gee’s changeup is faster than his fastball. I see a problem there.
I think what he is getting at is maybe he is more concerned with the GM making an issue out of it that might not be such a big issue….
Is Santana wrong for not doing his pre-Spring workouts to get prepared for the season?
YES!
Is it such a newsworthy item the GM should put into the public eye and amplify the problem?
probably not.
Especially if now it seems Santana will be ready to go in a week or less….
While there are times to take a player to task in the press, I’m not sure this is really one of them….
Your bitching about Santana is warranted, I am just not so sure it required Sanay making an issue in the press about it….
Just as I thought making Tejada coming late last year over a Visa Snafu a big story was wrong.
being that johan santana has never once on record showed up out of shape in his 12 years of playing major league ball…
do u find it a bit curious that this comes now?
and you are down in Florida arent you?
how badly out of shape does Johan look to you?
….and u think this had nothing to do with that ???
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/16/sports/baseball/16santana.html?_r=0
Hi Just,
Glad you found that article because of the point I touched on regarding Sandy intentionally misleading fans by implying Johann would return in 2011 much sooner than many expected when he himself knew better.
I remember Sandy saying that in an interview with Mike Francesa. Here is an Adam Rubin report from February of that year confirming the same thing.
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=6132335
And yet here is a report quoting un-named Mets officials painting an entirely different story:
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/13/report-johan-santana-may-miss-all-of-the-2011-season/
Again, why can’t the Mets level with their fans in at least situations like this? Saying nothing is better than lying……
….. and this is an example of Sandy doing exactly that with the media. That’s why I don’t trust him with what he says – regardless of how frank and though out he might sound.
That’s also why so many of us don’t believe he has any real “plan” to build a competitor more than discarding of all expensive players and hoping that a combination of inexpensive rejects and prospects can maybe turn the trick. His main focus has been trying to assure the Wilpons can afford to pay their bills and not lose money at the same time for his actions speaks for themselves.
Everybody is a Johan Santana expert til you start asking questions….
The Johan Santana saga should be the ‘poster’ case for the NY Mets, when considering signing pitchers that they haven’t controlled (so are not privy to their ‘true’ arm / shoulder health) to long-term mega $$$$$$ deals.
i opposed the deal at the time, but admittedly, i cannot claim being ‘right’, since the sole player that proved to be MLB caliber that we traded in that deal was Gomez (and that is based primarily on last year).
But, by any measure, Santana has not been worth his contract, having average 13 – 8 & 200 IP in his 3 best Seasons, ’08 – ’10 as a NY Met.
And as a Mets fan, i pray he doesn’t meet the 215IP level that would give him $25mm for ’14. Gawd forbid!
Almost relevant.
DiComo tweets: I take 24 hours off work and all heck breaks loose with Santana. Bottom line hasn’t changed: I’ll believe him for Opening Day when I see it.
https://twitter.com/AnthonyDiComo/status/308249414668017664
Good writer with a sense of humor.
It wouldn’t be a Mets ST without some type of controversy.
The tried for a week to get TC all spun up about no contract extension but he was having none of that. He nipped that one right in the bud.
Mejia turned out to be a non story.
Tejada showed up early this year.
Beltran’s long gone.
Guess it’s Johan’ turn.
The comments always make me laugh. I love the haters are automatically on the Mets front office about putting out a slur campaign when nobody knows what is going on. Remember the Ike attacks by the FO? That was a big one that the haters jumped on. And where is that story today? Does anyone know where Rubin got that story from? Who was his Mets source? Did anyone really say it? It seems like it died down with no validity whatsoever.
As for Johan, what is the surprise. He is an unreliable pitcher healthwise. He is trying to come back from a major surgery, one which nobody has really done. Last season, much of his breakdown was attributed to the fact he threw earlier in the offseason. So now he takes off during the offseason and people are upset he isnt ready to pitch on day 1.
Who knows what the issue really is other than the fact that the Met quacks once again are in the middle of it. Is there an organization who mishandles injuries more than the Mets? Just this off season we have them missing Francisco’s injury in Sept and not uncovering it until December. Could that have happened to anyone? Perhaps. But the Mets seem to specialize in misdiagnosis. How many day-to-day end up in extended loss. of time? Does anyone really blame Beltran for going outside the organization to get his knee taken care of?
I am not sure if it is under his domain, but if the retaining of the medical staff is Alderson’s decision, that is at the top of his list of mistakes.
Just because you are on the outside looking in it doesn’t make leaks invalid just because they didn’t evolve into anything.
Rubin wasn’t the only one who was told that about Ike Davis, Martino and Sherman got similar info from their sources and they told me so.
It’s when readers and non-insiders speculate that drive me crazy, not when writers report on info given to them as is their job.
I don’t understand why so many readers cast aspersions when they know so little of how things really are.
Just because something is leaked and eventually goes nowhere, it doesn’t mean someone on the Mets or MLB or another organization didn’t leak it.
I used to be like you, now I know better. Much better. Insight changes everything.
Take the time to read and don’t be some like some who think they know what’s going on and really don’t. Just take rumors with a grain of salt.
Don’t ignorantly act as if writers don’t have sources. They do. And many of them are right in the Mets front office.
“It’s when readers and non-insiders speculate that drive me crazy,”
and that is exactly what you are doing….
Headline should be:
Santana’s Evil Ways.
smaller print:
FO says: “Shape up so we can ship you out baby.”
Read this story yesterday and tried to follow up reading varying articles on the topic to see if added quotes can shed some more light on this. As best I can tell it seems there was an understanding Santana was going to ease up on his offseason throwing but it seems there was some misunderstanding or communication as to the extent.
Knowing Santana to be the competitive player he is and knowing that this is an important season for him as this is his last year of his contract I want to give him the benefit of the doubt that he would do what is needed to be ready to perform when the season starts.
Which is why I am surprised by his agents quotes of how far back he eased up depending on how you choose to interpret “full break”. Considering his age, past surgery and this being his walk year was a “full break” really the best course of action?
I suppose it’s also possible that Santana miscalculated how far back he would be when he got into camp by his decision. At this point I am just watching to see if this indeed impacts him going North with the team and more importantly how he performs when he does come North.
Though I am reading this morning that he decided to have an unscheduled mound session today after it was said yesterday that he would not do so for about 10 days and I am concerned that he did so for the wrong reasons. That being out of anger over the focus on him and how behind he is due to his off season throwing.
Hi North,
Excellent and insightful vetting. Probably closer to the reality of things than the rest of us hypothesized.
Joe D:
Please explain how the bad mouthing of Santana’s pitching shape is different than that of other bad mouthing s: RA, Ike, Beltran and Reyes’ box of chocolates. Remember the Maine too. Louie? Ollie deserved it for refusing the minors to improve.
I would appreciate you take on it.
Is bad mouthing a player publicly (besides Ollie) ever justified?
Hi Joey D.
I mixed you up for Joe D. Sorry. But I like your take on it too.
Of course having that mound session today is a direct result about this story.
So it was Johan’s decision to shut himself down for 2 weeks to build up arms strength and it’s Johan’s decision to instead pitch off a mound today on the heels of this story b/c he’s angry?
I just have to wonder who is running the show down there. Johan himself, the manager or the trainers, etc. charged with monitoring players health and progress?
Here are some tweets on the throwing session.
@DPLennon
Warthen said plan was for Santana to long toss 180 feet than try mound, which did this AM. “Just didnt know what day” Warthen said.
twitter.com/DPLennon/statuses/308239828242272256
@MartinoNYDN
Technical reason for Santana throwing bullpen today was got up to 180 feet long tossing, which was plan all along….
twitter.com/MartinoNYDN/statuses/308240455743725568
@MartinoNYDN
But asked friend of Santana’s if this was also “Bleep you, I can throw a bullpen just fine.” That person said stories prob “motivated him.”
twitter.com/MartinoNYDN/statuses/308240962889609218
Here is KB’s thoughts on all of this.
@KBurkhardtSNY
My take on the Johan Santana story is simple- I think he was stunned how his arm simply didn’t respond after his 2nd bullpen. (cont)
@KBurkhardtSNY
He rested all winter, which he thought he needed after 3 offseasons of rehab. Arm is simply not responding, and it has suprised him.
https://twitter.com/KBurkhardtSNY
Interesting…thanks.
I don’t think he owes the fans anything. Certainly not “most of all”.
He made a mistake here, but I don’t think it was intentional. He had a busy offseason last year preparing to come back from the surgery and all. I think he this offseason he wanted to ease things up a bit, and thought he’d be ok to start the year. I think he just misjudged how his arm would respond to not throwing in awhile.
Agreed, he owes nothing to the fans. That was a pretty dumb statement. Great username btw.
You can insult me, because I don’t care what anyone thinks of my opinions. But we don’t allow insulting other users on MMO anymore since the Spring rolled around.
I deleted the insults you made to Bayonne.
Everyone got a clean slate and we hit the reset button. We now have a new and impervious way of detecting proxy servers and giving us the ability to ban people permanently with no way to get around it.
You probably were not aware.
But in short, keep it baseball, stay on topic, or go to MetsBlog where apparently anything goes there these days. Thanks.
Joe D.
Please reply as I really have an open mind and do change it if good point(s) are made. You have a right to be more than disappointed with Johan. He miscalculated or did not care but that is irrelevant to my question as to the Met’s penchant for bad mouthing their players publicly. Of course privately they have a right and an obligation to do so. The issue is the FO response to Santana being out of “pitching shape” and not the fact that he reported that way to ST. Privately blast him but publicly say nothing since is coming off surgery last year and appeared to rush back. It appears even SA gave Santana a little rope and did not outright hang him.
I share your feeling that this could have been handled better if done face to face and not via the press….
But the press is where this FO seems to like to communicate with their players…
There is no question the Mets use the media to leak negative info about a player to the press. This isn’t an Alderson or Mets thing exclusively in New York. It’s actually a George Steinbrenner thing and nobody did it better, rest in peace, George. The Wilpons have perfected it. I write about their whisper campaigns all the time.
As for Johan, I am disappointed because he disappointed me. Twice we went to cover events that he was supposed to attend, and twice he didn’t show up. I wanted to know what was happening and I wasn’t getting anything from the Mets other than, “Joe, we’ll get back to you.”
Now I know what happened. The Mets didn’t know what was up with Santana either. I thought they were ducking me or hiding something. They weren’t and I was wrong for hinting at that all Winter.
As far as publicly blasting him, maybe Alderson should have bit his tongue, but I can’t fault him on this. Like I said in my original post, he was blindsided.
He has more of a right to be angry than I did over some silly opportunities we wanted to cover, take photos, and get an interview with him.
Alderson traded his ace R.A. Dickey thinking he had a well rested and well conditioned ace in Santana. How do you think he felt when Santana showed up on mandatory reporting day and not a minute earlier, and was tossing marshmallows on the backfields at Port St. Lucie under his watchful eye along with Ricciardi, Ricco, Warthen, Collins, Fred and Jeff?
How do you think they ALL felt?
Well, he’s certainly well rested, if this story has some legs.
Joe D.
Thanks for your reply.Yes indeed Steinbrenner was brutal “fat toad” and Mr. May and so forth. Met’s leaks are not as brutal but still wrong.
Your story on the bad mouthing of R.A.Dickey was so poignant and true. I do not think they thought Santana would be the Ace to replace the CY winner. However maybe it time to move on from this story.
“As far as publicly blasting him, maybe Alderson should have bit his tongue, but I can’t fault him on this. Like I said in my original post, he was blindsided.”
I would add that Alderson in this case stated what everyone already knew that everyone say Sntana throw and it was apparent he was not ready to pitch and Santana’s agent prob should of bit his tongue by stating that Santana needed a “full break”.
My take is the idea that the GM said I know what I am going to do I am going to smear him. Yes let’s smear Santana that will teach him.
o_0
should read “everyone saw Santana throw”
Joe I’m going to take a cue from my mother here….
Would you jump off the Brooklyn Bridge just because your Friends did it?
Yes a lot of teams do it….
Doesn’t mean that it should be done though or that it is right to do.
If it was a Matt Harvey who is a key piece of the puzzle for the forseeable future and relatively young to the point he might not know what is expected of a professional player it might be the right thing to do….
Teach him a lesson by putting him into a position that he will never want to be in again….
But a guy like Santana who is probably gone in July or November there is really nothing to be gained from it…And worse there is something to LOSE by doing so.
Who is going to trade for a guy who has injuries history AND NOW Work Ethic issues on top of that?
The same reasoning was used an an ALIBI for Sandy when it was Ike being raked over the press coals and trashed…..
Why would he say that and hurt the value of a player he might want to trade? No way the FO said that about Ike…
And then there is THIS story which shows they never seem to have a problem trashing players and this time there is a direct source of the quote….
Truth of the matter this got into the press not because they wanted to embarass Santana they wanted to cover thier ass for him not pitching yet and put it all on him…..
Warranted or not this should not reallty have been made a news piece as it sure doesn’t do anything for a team whose attendance is directly related to how much hope the fans have in the players we are going to put out there.
Can’t say I disagree with most your points here.
I keep thinking though about Johan wanting to pitch in the WBC. Never mind the rule that if you end the season on the DL, you need a waiver for that to happen….I’m wondering how he thought he was going to pitch if his arm is not in shape yet? Did he not realize that? If no, is it possible that he showed up in camp thinking all it would take would be a couple of weeks to get ready and he’d be good to go….only to find out that arm wasn’t close to ready?
And I’ve asked this before…when you have a player who ends the season on the DL, isn’t there some off season communication with that player on what he needs to do to rehab and be ready?
Do they really just leave that all up to the player?
Perhaps (and mind you this isn’t an excuse for what he did just a glimpse at his possible mindset)
He thought he would pitch in the WBC and get into shape there so by the time it was over he would return in pitching form.
What he did was DUMB not THOUGHT OUT…No denying that!
He miscalculated and thought the lack of throwing would not be a problem for him. It turned out that it was….
Perhaps he thought he was saving himself for the season…
Or maybe his injury is much worse than he has ever let on and despite all his proclamations of I’M Fine he really wasn’t and thought the DO NOTHING approach was in order…
Whatever led him to this was a MISTAKE on HIS part…No Question…
Doesn’t mean it should be turned into a federal offense in the press. Yes Sandy has every right to be pissed about a guy who is going to collect a 25 Million dollar check not doing what he should to earn it.
But I’m sure we have all POed our boss at one point or another and didn’t have to read about it in the newspaper!
Sure they are public figures and we are not but it doesn’t mean that every mistake made should be dragged out and made a public issue.
Just as I said the same things abouty tejada last year…
I just don’t see why it is so important to have one player in the doghouse every spring.
Especially when it is a player who has no long term future with this team and whose best service to it could be as a trade chip which requires someone else to want him if he isn’t more of a problem than they think he was before this story broke.
No arguments from me on your points.
I just can’t get past the point that he ended the season on the DL and there was apparently no communication over the winter on his off season training program. Even if they just shut him down for the season thinking he’d done enough after returning from surgery and his arm was getting tired….should there not have been some off season program for him?
I guess what I’m trying to convey here is there just seems to be some details missing from this story. Details we’re not privy to and probably never will be.
This is kind of why I said why doesn’t the team (any team mind you not just us we are not an exception here) have a policy that says if you could not complete the previous season due to injury or heath that the team should assign or approve a Trainer to work with you in the offseason to ensure not only that your doing your homework but doing it properly so as not to make things worse.
Maybe if something like that was in place we don’t wait until just before the season for Beltran to get operated on they realize (because of the oversight) that Beltran really needs the operation in December and he doesn’t miss half a season in 2010….
What would that cost them 20-30K per player?
compared to the cost of not having a guy who makes 18-25 Million?
You want to know what this all comes down to?
He got a charley Horse in his arm and they went into a panic thinking it was an injury when all it was really is a lack of work that left him sore….
The underlying story is Santana isn’t ready and it’s NOT because he is really hurt!
That is what is getting lost in all of this…
Don’t run for two months then try and run a mile….You will see why Santana wasn’t able to pitch….
“Alderson traded his ace R.A. Dickey thinking he had a well rested and well conditioned ace in Santana.”
Alderson traded RA Dickey KNOWING Johan ended 2012 injured and would rest and come back in decent shape…NOT opening day shape…
His arm has not responded…so they are taking a step back…
Wait so I can’t be insulting but Bayonne can lower everyone’s IQ every time he posts? Seems fair!
And now that the story has become as big as it has the end result will probably be Santana will pitch in a manner to kill the story and shut everyone up….
Overdo it and possibly re-injure himself in the proccess!
This could have been addressed much better in a face to face with Santana than doing it via the press…IMO
But it would appear this FO has no qualms about throwing thier players under the bus….
It’s not just this FO though, Metsie.
The last one had it’s share of controversies on that subject too.
Let’s not forget Beltran allegedly having surgery w/o informing the FO, Walter Reed gate (also involving Beltran), stories leaking that both Reyes and Beltran were ‘too soft’ and milking injuries, etc. etc.
I know….But read my post to JoeD above…
The one that starts off…
would you jump off a bridge just because all your friends did it?
Metsie, we’ve known each other for a while now, and it’s safe to say that you know I get killed from both opposing ends of the base. The ones with the agendas.
You know I kill Alderson on many occasions and I don’t have to convince you or any regular reader of that.
If I criticize Alderson for something; enter Van, Metro, Kramer, Taskmaster and Chicago Days. If I praise Alderson for something; enter Bayonne, Alex, Damaja, Maniac, and sometimes even you.
That’s not an insult, it’s just what happens. I laugh at the predictability of it.
But this particular incident? What’s happening here today? How the front office responded? I can’t say a bad word about how they handled it. They simply told the truth. They had to. Everyday since February 19 they were getting hammered with questions saying where the hell is Johan Santana? Why isn’t he pitching?
How would any other front office have handled it?
I’m actually surprised they kept the wolves at bay until March 2nd.
Had it been me I would have addressed it on February 20th and told everyone that Santana showed up tossing 71 mph meatballs and that was after he was told by Warthen to let it fly.
Trust me, when they do something I disagree with I will hammer them like I always do.
Lately. they’ve been doing and saying the right things.
I never criticize GM’s just for the sake of criticizing them. I didn’t do it with Phillips, Duquette and Minaya, and I’m not gonna start now.
Unlike those that always say they don’t have an agenda… I actually don’t. And my body of work in the last nine years proves it.
Joe, just to be clear I have no issue with anyone being POed about what happened or Santana’s lack of preperation….And certainly not with your piece here.
And I’m not even taking the FO to a major task on this….
As I think I said elsewhere here Sandy has EVERY RIGHT to be POed at Santana when he has to cut the guy a 25 Million dollar check to play baseball…
I’m not really complaining over what they did and admit is it SOP as far as how Clubs (especially NY Clubs) deal with players….
Hell I benefit from it because it is these things that drives the media/press who pays me good money to build the technology they use to broadcast these stories. LOL I basically am the MEDIA/PRESS in a way and we LIVE for these types of Stories to fill hours of Airtime!
But I’m an old Tournament Chess player too…
And I know every move you make should be for a damn good reason not just now but 5-10 moves away…
And while Sandy has the right to bitch about it I really don’t see what there was to gain by doing so.
If he’s not ready and can’t be the press notification is not going to change that.
If it DOES have any affect it will get Santana to do MORE than he should there by risking and even BIGGER issue such as overwork and re-injury because he is doing more than he should and is capable of to kill the story.
If he IS ready and this pushes him to show it then he really wasn’t out of pitching shape all that much was he? So the story is then a NON-Story…
It does nothing for what his biggest contribution to us this year and next year might be as a Trade chip to get another promising kid.
SO while Sandy has every right to be pissed and it’s not abnormal to bitch about your players in the press I’m not knocking him for this…
Just asking if it was productive to do so and not DEstructivewhen you consider what the goals and hopes were in relation to this particular player….
Was Santana wrong for slacking off? YES!
Was Sandy right to be Pissed? DOUBLE YES!
Was Sandy wrong for saying it to the press? DEPENDS….
It depends on what he hoped to gain by it and what he might risk losing by it.
I see no benefit here but lots of potential downside in the cases of rushing a player who isn’t physically ready, risking him overdoing what he isn’t ready for and re-injuring and hurting the value of a player whose best contribution this year may be his salary coming off the books and the return of a player we might get because somone else wants him and will trade for him…
Whatever he thinks he could gain by this was already possible without this…
So all I see is a downside to this, no upside and thats the point I’m trying to get accross here in saying WHY did they do this in the press…To what GAIN that made the potential risks worth taking.
As for your fairness in this piece I never had a question about a single thing you said…Nor what Sandy said…
I just don’t see anything he can gain from it and if there is no gain but risk involved better to not make the move….
Or make it Quietly and PERSONALLY so Santana knows he is in the doghouse but none of his potential trade partners do…
As a matter of PR, this was amateur hour by Alderson, who had 1/10 the media coverage in Oakland and San Diego. As Bill Madden wrote this morning, if you expect Santana to still be your ace at this point you are kidding yourself. He hasn’t pitched later than September 3 in five years. The fact he may not start until April 15? That should be irrelevant.
Unless you are worried about a bad start and the torrent of bad publicity that is going to generate.
Great job Old School
Heyman wrote:
“The Mets were surprised Santana wasn’t in pitch shape, and couldn’t quite understand why Santana thought he could pitch for Venezuela in the WBC when they determined he wasn’t ready to throw for them”.
This is where I have trouble and why so many might notice I am hesitant with third party statements that are not accompanied by some sort of backup material.
While Heyman was able to quote Sandy’s text (which I still see as an observation more than a comment) there is no backup verifying their surprise and confusion. I would like to see even an unnamed source at least quoted rather than being inferred. As a reader, I have no idea how accurately his report reflects some in the Met front office. Yes, he could have been told something “off the record” – and I’m sure as a professional journalist he does his vetting – but I’ve seen too often when one is “reporting” the news he is also interjecting his own opinion or analysis without directly stating so.
Unless Heyman could be more specific and verify that we have no way of knowing if was also interjecting his own opinion, what he said his accurate or that he was spinning a story for himself and those who employ him for the sake of tabloid journalism.
Also, due to their own actions in the past, we just don’t know what the organization itself rell thinks. Are the Mets angry or disappointed or did they know arm fatigue was a possibility heading into training camp? Did they believe with the physical regiment Johann was following during the off-season that his arm would be ready and so once again are in the act of covering up their own miscalculations or not heeding the cautionary advice of medical experts- as we’ve seen over the years with their handling of injuries Bay, Wright, Ike, Church and others? Or were they hoping to keep things quiet regarding Santana so not to affect ticket sales (like they did with holding back Beltran’s surgery during the winter season ticket sales campaign or Sandy the following year we might very well be surprised how quickly Johann comes back when Santana afterwards said maybe not until August and it eventually became the entire year) or Reyes (he’ll probably be fine for the all-star game when being told a stint on the DL was almost inevitable)?
It’s because the Wilpons are responsible for the above is why, as pointed out before, we can’t trust them to give us a simple honest appraisal of the situation. And, it’s because more and more mainstream journalism has taken the route of the National Inquirer that we can’t trust what we read anymore from those we thought in the past were reputable reporters.
So I just don’t know.
#Truth
“It’s because the Wilpons are responsible for the above is why, as pointed out before, we can’t trust them to give us a simple honest appraisal of the situation. And, it’s because more and more mainstream journalism has taken the route of the National Inquirer that we can’t trust what we read anymore from those we thought in the past were reputable reporters.”
Hi Just,
Thanks.