13
2013
Santana and the Mets Clear The Air

Updated on March 13 at 2:00 PM
According to Andy Martino of the Daily News, Johan Santana spoke with Sandy Alderson today to clear the air about what’s been reported about him and his coming to camp unprepared and not ready to pitch.
Santana didn’t say anything all the newsworthy, says Martino, but the Mets lefthander looked like he was in a better mood, talking, and clearly wanting the subject changed.
“I’m not going to get into you said, I said, all that,” Santana said. “But we’re all on the same page now.”
Well, I’m glad to see him finally take a proactive approach, but until he gets on that mound and starts pitching like he’s capable of, I won’t be completely satisfied.
That said, I’m pulling for his success…
Originally Posted on March 12 at 11:00 AM
It’s amazing to me how just one player’s status can have such a widespread reaction on the whole team. Take Johan Santana for example. He was supposed to be all rested and ready to go and instead he showed with his arm in no condition to participate with the rest of his teammates in drills, bullpens, live batting practice and appearing in Grapefruit League games.
One little comment from Sandy Alderson who simply stated that Santana’s arm was not ready, and all of a sudden the world stopped turning.
Immediately the GM is getting blasted by some for igniting a powder keg big enough to blow Tradition Field to Iowa. But give me a break, all he did was answer a question and did so honestly. My problems with Sandy have always been when he did the opposite so I’m sure as hell not going to get into his face for being forthright.
And for those fans who seem intent on blaming him for what has ensued ever since with regard to Santana’s piss-poor behavior, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
The problem here is Johan Santana, not Alderson, not Terry Collins, and not the Mets.
For a player whom I’ve always looked up to as a warrior, he’s been acting more like George Costanza; always whining or pouting and blaming everyone in the world except himself for his problems. For crying out loud, quit your bitching and just try to remedy the situation rather than making it worse.
Santana has yet to make his spring debut because he is still in the process of building strength in his shoulder, or basically exactly what Sandy Alderson told reporters over a week ago. Nothing’s changed.
If things have gotten worse it’s because Santana decided upon himself to toss an unscheduled bullpen session – weakened shoulder and all – just to prove that he was the ultimate macho man – the ultimate warrior. But instead he came away looking like a big sour puss and worse yet risked another potentially costly setback, and now a trip to the DL is all but inevitable.
Compounding things even further is Santana’s continued whining and moaning. He told columnist John Harper that he remains bitter toward the ballclub and is barely communicating with club officials. Are you freaking kidding me?
Santana, 33, is still owed $25 million this season and more like $31.5 million when you include his buyout. What is this guy’s major malfunction? In a matter of two weeks, Santana has gone from warrior to wimp. I’m tired of wasting time on him and this situation…
Onward and upward.
Instead I’m quite happy with the way Jonathon Niese has performed thus far in Spring Training, and I’m glad that it looks like he’ll be the Opening Day starter. The Mets couldn’t have picked a more deserving pitcher and I’m sure Niese will rise to the occasion.
“He’s really gotten better; he’s growing up,” Collins said. “To me, he deserves that opportunity to start on Opening Day this year. He’s reached that point where I think you can look up, hopefully, at the end of the year and this guy’s one of the top pitchers of the game.”
As for Johan’s spot in the rotation, and as I’ve been saying all along, we’re in capable hands with Jeremy Hefner. A pitcher with average stuff, but an above average heart and above average instincts on the mound. He’ll be just fine until Zack Wheeler is ready to contribute and if Hefner does falter, I have no problem with Collin McHugh or Jenrry Mejia getting a few starts.
Would I prefer that Santana was healthy and ready to go on Opening Day? Of course I would, but I’m not going to cry over spilled milk if he goes on the DL. Maybe the time off will do his brain some good as well as his shoulder, because clearly he’s got some emotional issues going on, and we don’t need him spreading that negative karma onto our very young rotation who did come to camp early, ready to pitch, and eager to help this team win some ballgames.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 28 | .600 | - |
| Nationals | 34 | 35 | .493 | 7.5 |
| Phillies | 34 | 37 | .479 | 8.5 |
| Mets | 25 | 40 | .385 | 14.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 47 | .319 | 19.5 |
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ok….
maybe….just MAYBE….you dont know the entire story between the mets front office and Santana….
harper’s comment was from another “unnamed” source …so…aside from the fact that he ignores YOU in the morning…I havent seen anything concrete coming from Santana that would suggest unprofessionalism.
I have however seen an entire career worth of a man that pitches with heart, fortitude, in pain…
a guy that has motivated others to perform well…a guy who was angry and bitter at his team for selling off veterans durin the trade deadline because he wants to win. He threw the twins under the bus for NOT trying their best to win.
He comes to NY and 1 year later, the Bernie Madoff scandal happens…
so what happens his first game of 2009?
unexperienced but cheap Daniel Murphy drops a pop up that costs the game…
Santana loses 2-0
Santana from 2008-2010/2012 had the worst run support in baseball, despite pitching injured, despite pitching with crappy bullpens, crappy defense, he NEVER threw the front office under the bus for not providing him what he needed.
RA Dickey did it during the trade deadline when Beltran was traded. You never heard a PEEP from Santana in 2012 when Lucas Duda and his 800 lb self was roaming RF….
You never heard a peep from Santana as the pop warner offense failed him again and again….
So yeah, ONE off-season, Santana decides to rest his shoulder…and Sandy, Mr. Foot in mouth himself, says Santana did not show up in pitching shape ( which is VAGUE ) and a poor choice of words.
Sandy COULD HAVE said, since they were monitoring Sanana during the off-season, that Santana and the Mets thought it was best to rest his shoulder and they are just revving it back up to get ready for the season.
I dont believe Sandy was even trying to throw Santana under the bus, I just think this comment if made in SD, doesnt generate more interest than a Roseanne Barr beer belly fart.
But in NYC, with a blood thirsty media, missing Tony Bernazard, missing Omar Minaya and the crazy Latino/Los Mets theories on taking over baseball with nothing but Minaya’s family and friends, missing RA Dickey…have to work extra hard at creating scandals that arent there…
So b/c Johan knows anything he says is taken out of context. He doesnt say hi to Joe D in the morning.
Then Joe D comes back to MMO raging mad about it !!!
Now all Johan Santana stories from Joe D will be negative.
If a reporter says he saw Johan Santana crying in the bathroom. It’s reported that Santana is suicidal and cracking under stress.
Whether or not he was crying b/c he missed his daughter’s recital or 1st day of school is inconsequential.
Crying in the bathroom under any circumstances is not permitted. Ever. And doing so allows anyone who sees it to misinterpret it and come up with their own theories.
Which you will take as gospel because Johan didnt say hi to you during spring training.
Welcome to “sports journalism” circa 2013
well said! couldn’t agree more…
I love the way SA said about Johann, Weak arm. Hes telling the truth, Come on he has made a ton of money with the Mets and for that money he in my eyes didnt live up to that. And you go out and throw a bull-pen session and get a set back, Not smart… Come on Johann get with it we really need you to pitch this year to help them young guys. But with a good attatue.
I think he is still pissed that the Mets didnt want him to play in the WBC. (He’s not ready).
Go Mets!!!
So it’s fair to say you have a vendetta against johan santana eh? to a point i see why you are upset here, but i don’t think there’s a need to get mad, again, it’s march 12 for christ sake, if david wright was hitting .001 in ST i wouldn’t be mad or anything like that, why rush santana early on? this team is not competing joe, and seeing what everyone except sandy lover’s why on earth would he bust himself during the offseason when the FO hasn’t done sh** to help the team? this team will be lucky to win 75 games, to complain about a guy you call a warrior on march 12th sounds like a vendetta to me, so far you’ve written 2 articles blasting santana in less than weeks, yet alderson has been given the ultimate pass in here in terms of blasting him for his mediocre to say the least terms as a mets GM. Santana has given the mets his heart and arguably 2 of the most gutsies performance of the franchise history so i am NOT gonna come on march 12th and criticize a man for not being “ready” to pitch for a team that ownership nor the FO cares about…..
Uh Joe routinely criticizes Alderson. He sides with him one time and it’s because he has a vendetta against Santana? Calm down dude.
LOL ownership and FO don’t care about the club.
Wright loses it with his manager in Milwaukee after a career of reserved emotions yet some on here point to that situation repeatedly as an attack on Wright. Yet Santana is given the benefit of the doubt. Total hypocrisy based upon bias.
As for the Santana situation, I look to Collins. He was the one who stated that Santana needs to stop being oversensitive. I imagine this is one of the first times in his career he is on the wrong side of the media. The bottom line is his arm wasnt ready for ST…no shame in that considering the surgery he went through. However, Santana compounded the problem with his intention to play in the WBC, So the question is how would he be ready to pitch in the WBC when he wasnt for ST? The truth is he wasnt.
That said, dont get accustomed to Hefner in the rotation. Santana might miss a couple starts but he will be back and I still expect him to pitch at a high level. He knows how to pitch, has the competitiveness that made him an ace, and showed last year the shoulder is able.
Wright loses it with his manager in Milwaukee after a career of reserved emotions yet some on here point to that situation repeatedly as an attack on Wright. ”
Wrong once again, nobody in here attacked the guy, it’s merely use to state a double standard with mets fans, who had that been someone else like reyes, beltran or anybody BUT him that player would’ve gotten killed by the media, fans and bloggers, but since it was the ambassador, then he’s a fiery guy, get out of here with that… Hell, santana does that and it’s the end of the world as we know it, mets fans are the most you know what in baseball, and the double standard is pathetic, remember when minaya signed a few latinos? remember what happened and the scrutiny he took? how come noone is saying anything about the type of players alderson’s brought in the past 3 years? look it up and see me and understand what i am saying, but probably you won’t beccause your agenda won’t allow it. SMH
I don’t think you’ll find anyone defending Sandy for trading Pagan for 2 guys who were terrible, signing Francisco who stunk last season, letting Reyes leave for only a draft pick and the current OF being completely uncertain and potentially awful
The issue is Omar’s bad moves wound up being really really bad while Sandy’s bad moves haven’t had such a bad impact.
I’ll defend the Santana, Alou, Pedro and K-Rod moves forever. However, Bay, Perez, Castillo, the drafting and the rushing of the few prospects we had, were disastrous…
What agenda? To see a successful organization after a couple pathetic decades of a failed experiment that said win now no matter what the cost? Because that is my agenda. Too bad people with your viewpoint just want money spent so that the team might generate some decent runs for a year or two.
You point to the last 2 years…what about the last two year under Minaya? Didnt the Mets seem to finish 4th during those years also? But you want to turn on the FO because because they didnt duplicate the same insanity that put the Mets in the playoffs 3 times in 20+ years.
Santana’s Evil Ways vs. Wrights wimpy ways:
Jets vs.Sharks still in Metsville. I thought with Delgado and La Duca gone and Minya gone we won’t have gangs Jets vs. Sharks atmosphere. Tony (not Buzzard) and Maria where art thou.
Are Wright and Santana the new La Duca and Delgado? I am just trying to stir the pot but the division is raising its ugly head again. Anti-Alderson, Anti Minya, Anti Wright and Anti Santana. Is this racial or about a pennant race? I do not think the later.
LOL, sounds like the lead-in to a Broadway musical.
I think the past few years have bred a tendency among fans to conduct the postmortem before the horse is even dead …
Kind of like having a ready excuse in case you fail that big test you didn’t study for.
Everything I’ve heard about this particular clubhouse is that it’s fairly cohesive without a lot of groups and cliques. Now a certain amount of that is normal in any large group and it’s also natural for people to gravitate to those of similar ethnic and language backgrounds, so my guess is the talk of a fractured clubhouse is just a lot of baseless supposition.
There also just aren’t very many Latin players, Tejada, Santana and Francisco are the only Latin regulars on the active roster.
Just for a point of reference I am a non-Hispanic White.
Gone: Reyes and Beltran :
Tejeda “late for last year ST”
Santana “arm not in pitching shape” maybe true but handled poorly
Valdespin- “immature and a bad attitude” He will be he next Kevin Mitchell
K-rod bad press was justified and sorry Joey D. so was trading him for nothing
I see the Hispanic population’s anger here plus the maligning of Minya its get even time. Don’t get me wrong Alderson is on the clock.
Jets vs Sharks !!!
bwahahahahahahaha
It’s never good when players and the club air their dirty laundry in public.
I’m not sure we’ve heard the whole story here b/c one comment by the FO stating his arm isn’t in pitching shape yet should not have produced this apparent anger on Santana’s end.
Not sure we’ll ever get the whole story though.
If he is indeed just annoyed b/c the Mets made public what apparently is the truth, he does need a little attitude check. Besides, actions speak louder than words. Get back on the mound sooner rather than later and pitch the way we all know he’s capable of. That should end this whole pissing contest.
SRT, problem is the mets have a history of doing that, whenever that players is somehow not wanted on the clubhouse, these reports come out, whether is sources telling the media, or coaches or FO members blasting the players, hell, even the owner blast players in this franchise. it’s downright embarrasing and pathetic, santana hasn’t done anything wrong here, march 12. and if he’s not ready to go, oh well, it ain’t as if this team is going anywhere…
Like I said, it’s never good when clubs air their dirty laundry in public. Especially a NY team which has swarms of media covering them and will pick up on anything – or make stuff up if there’s no controversies to report about.
I still think there’s a bit more to this story but we’ll likely never know.
Truthfully, I was more than surprised Johan was ready to go last opening day and given the fact that he ended the season on the DL, not being quite ready this year does not surprise me.
They had to say something though, when the guy was not taking his turns in games, or pitching pen sessions like the rest of the pitchers. What would have happened if they stonewalled and said “no comment”? Everyone would have run off to assume and write the worst case scenario, assuming the mets were hiding a deep dark secrect.
frankly, what Sandy said was about the most logical, and innocuous, thing he could have. If Santana and not gotten snitty (for whatever reason it would all have just blown over like it should have.
Actually, the guy with the mouth that needs a slap is his agent for blabbing the “burnt out” line. That is what threw Johan under the bus, and what he was reacting to. But no, trash Sandy instead seems to be the party line.
If the agent or Johan just said (in response to Sandy) that yes, he missed some workout time due to having to rest (for recovery purposes) the arm/ankle, so he is a little behind but will work diligently to catch up, and he does not want to let the team down, the story would have been a footnote that died off quickly.
Have to agree with you about the FO’s rather vanilla comment stating something to the effect that the arm isn’t quite in pitching shape yet.
Somehow, I think this might not have blown up to this proportion if Johan’s agent then didn’t make that comment he made. I think that was the point when the media took the ball and ran with it. Before that comment no one had any idea what type of off season program Johan did or did not do. His agent comes right out and says he virtually did nothing.
Now…it’s possible the FO already knew this but they weren’t the ones that made that public.
Have to take away points from Johan’s agent on this one.
Hi srt,
You are completely right. It’s airing it’s dirty laundry in public. No different than our own places of work but only that it supposedly stays confidential between those airing it (year, sure!
). Both parties are doing it and in all fairness, we don’t know who instigated what.
If Sandy and his organization are taking the public flack for this latest round, it’s only because they’ve been guilty of it so many times before that one makes automatic assumptions. It’s the old Aesop fable of the boy who cried wolf and nobody believed him when he was finally telling the truth.
Sandy cannot control his players but he can at least control those un-named sources to stop airing that dirty laundry – after all, those under Sandy know he is more than capable of backtracking to possibly find the source for any particular leak and I doubt anyone would want to suffer the consequences once he finds out.
Come on Joey, this has nothing to do with Sandy. The METS have had these issues long before Sandy and if anything any honest person would say that these situations have occurred less in the last 2 years than they did in the previous decade.
Well yeah…we can go all the way back to M. Donald Grant throwing Seaver right under the bus.
Hi TRS,
I said I was not going to make judgement on who did what and when.
I felt it was necessary to point out, however that the Mets have been guilty of smear campaigns before that thus one makes automatic assumptions which, in this latest incident, the front office could be completely innocent in having done anything wrong but being blamed so once again reminiscent of the boy who cried wolf who nobody believed when finally telling the truth.
That was my warning about the credibility issue – when one is deceptive it usually backfires in more ways than one.
This is just a function of way too many reporters in St/ Lucie with way too much idle time on there hands and nothing to write about. Employees get pissed at employers daily. Which of us hasn’t been bugged? I agree that Santana is making a ton of money in a very public position, but big deal if he is unhappy about something from management. It doesn’t matter if it is right or wrong, it just isn’t a big deal. That bullpen was no big deal either, soft tossing to the catcher in front of the plate. He just as soon could have tripped going onto the field, or gotten struck by lightning. The bigger issue with Johan is that his arm may well just be shot. If he can’t get it going by May and then prove that he can be effective over a span of time, the Mets will need to part ways with him. My biggest fear is what happened last July-August, where he pitches but has nothing. This will hurt the team and be embarrassing for him as well, and it needs to be avoided, regardless of whose feelings get hurt. It’s unfortunate, but that’s life in the majors.
Pretty much. It is the product of a 24 hour news cycle that values quantity over quality.
Word to Santana: shut your mouth and try to get your ass on the mound. This team has paid you a fortune and you have not been able to perform up to your contract. For you to have an attitude now is beyond ridiculous.
Maybe…just maybe Santana is kaput, and he knows it. The bitterness in part reflects his washed-upedness.
Sad, but, alas, I fear he’s unraveling.
if he’s “done” then how do you explain how he was one of the best pitchers in baseball for 3 months to start the season AFTER surgery…
I agree that that’s really hard to explain. Look, I hope I’m wrong about my seemingly flip assessment, but…
This falling-off-of-a-cliff-like turnabout is not unknown in professional sports. A major injury often causes it.
Santana isn’t unraveling. He just sees what others don’t want to see. He’s at the end of the line. He doesn’t care. Partially because the team stinks and mostly because there’s nothing he can do to bring back his fastball. Santana is going to go through the motions as they say. That’s life.
I think Zanca has a good point above. It is very likely he is done, it has happened to many great pitchers before him.
Baseball would be so much better with non-guaranteed contracts like football, but I have no regrets with this contract. It is not often a pitcher like that falls in your lap by trading a bunch of scrubs and he received what the market dictated. If they didn’t flop in ’08 then there would be no complaints.
And he got us our no-hitter. To me getting that monkey off my back was worth a good portion of that contract. How many damn games would some schlep announcer make light that the Mets have never had a no-no.
I am with you on this. Santana should have been in better shape coming into camp. The fact is that he has still not taken the mount in a game situation and has no one to blame but himself.
What shape did he come in? I dont think the question was his physical conditioning. I did not read one quote that he is overweight. The simple fact is that his arm is not to where it needs to be because he didnt throw this off season which appears to be what he AND the Mets agreed upon. I sense it was the “I want to pitch in the WBC” and then not being able to even throw off the mound which took the Mets by surprise.
Santana should have come to Florida ready to pitch. Wether that means the mets screwed up in not monitoring him or Johan simply sat on his hands all off season, I don’t know. If healthy, 31 million should have bought the Mets a pitcher ready to throw.
Good post.
Yes, this is true. I think the Mets did a lousy job in monitoring him, and then Johan did a terrible job preparing himself. Plenty of blame for both sides.
You know what I found out over the weekend? I found out that Joe Mauer is despised in his clubhouse, that’s right, all-American boy Joe Mauer, hated. Why? Because he begs out of the lineup for every nick and bruise and that lineup falls apart without him. Hard to believe, but it just goes to show ya, you never know. It’s hard for us to know what exactly is going on without getting into Santana’s head, but Santana has proven something to me over the years, that his brand of “wanting to win” is all about Johan, his drive for the post season is all about personal Glory. Santana is all about Santana. The guy is unbelievably full of himself. Sure he’s a two time Cy Young award winner, but how about just a little humility now and then? Like I said in that piece I wrote, I’ve always loved Santana as a pitcher, as a person, not so much.
I think a lot of people would honestly be singing a different tune if he hadn’t pitched that no-hitter. I actually sympathize with that point of view, in a way it was worth it, no matter what happens. But with a few exceptions of good games pitched here and there, Santana has not been great for us
10.80 era in Nationals park?
14.20 era at Turner field?
10.80 era at Yankee stadium?
Why does he want to get back to the post season so badly? I don’t know, you’ll have to ask him, but he sure didn’t do well his first couple of times around with the Twins, maybe the impression that he choked in the post-season (he sure did at Yankee stadium in 03) bothers him? Who knows.
But I am pretty sure about it being all about Johan.
I don’t think it’s a stretch to presume that a guy who bops some floozy on a golf-course (because he can and because he’s “Johan”) with his sweetheart of a wife waiting at home is not a pillar of all that is morally good in the world, and he’s just maybe a little full of himself.
I am more than happy to rip Alderson when he does slip up, but c’mon now, look at the transcript for crying out loud, he didn’t say anything that wasn’t factually accurate. Are we really looking to crucify our GM for not being more “sensitive” to Johan’s ego? lol.
Derek Jeter “bops” girls left and right and sends them off with a gift basket of memorabilia and I’m sure Wright’s been with more girls than all of us put together.
Talking about a player’s personality when you’ve never seen him off the field, is just stupid and shows some sort of bias on your part.
Everything we’ve ever heard about him is that he’s a consumate professional and a stand up guy. I’ll go with that instead of your theories you developed out of thin air…
lol, Jeter and Wright are NOT MARRIED.
But maybe that doesn’t mean anything these days. Who am I to judge?
Someone should tell Yasmile Santana if that’s the case.
Wright was recently married and I really don’t care about athletes and their extramarital affairs.
I care about their performance on their field and how they carry themselves on the field and in the clubhouse.
Johan’s baseball reputation was impeccable until this ST
Wright was recently engaged. I don’t believe he’s getting married until after the 2013 season.
Bias? No bias here, I’ve felt this way about Santana since before he was even a Met. In fact that may be WHY I feel this way about him, I followed him in MN but did so as a Met fan so I was perhaps more objective about the guy than most Twins fans.
A lot of people in MN think Smith/Ryan made the right decision unloading Santana when they did, just didn’t get the right return. People here saw him rise from the rule 5 scrap heap to a Cy Young and they loved his competitive spirit, but as an outsider (as a Met fan) sure I saw him as a fantastic pitcher but always thought he was really really full of himself. Interestingly I was not the only one who felt that way, especially out here in the heartland where humility is a virtue like no other … but honestly no one cared much because he was so damned good. Then the 2002 and 2003 playoffs came around and after Santana crapped his pants people were a lot less forgiving. Johan and his massive ego let them down when they needed him most … in 4 post-season series he is 1 – 3 with an almost 4. era and a 1.3 whip. They never forgave him for 2003 when many believed they had a better team than the Yankees but Johan walked away from the Bronx with a 7.04 era … Santana blew it big time. If he’d been the lights out Cy Young pitcher he was advertised as, they would have probably won that series. THAT is why it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way when he had his little fit over the Castillo trade. Maybe that’s why he wants to get back to the post-season so bad? Maybe wants to right his reputation? One thing’s for sure, it aint the fans in NY he wants to do it for, lol.
Maybe it was more a sour grapes thing after he left the midwest, but rest assured I didn’t invent the whole “Santana is unbelievably full of himself” thing. People out here were all over that.
The problem now, as I see it, is you have this massive ego and you no longer have the performance to back it up … so you’d think it would behoove such a player to tone down the rhetoric and diva antics? Not Johan.
Me lady doth protest too much.
Maybe I’m being naive, but is it too much to ask to have players on this team who want to win because they want to help the Mets win? Because they love NY and the fans here?
http://www.playerwives.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/nypost.jpg
Neeker, I don’t care if he wants to kill himself to get to the PS for him, me, you or the next Pope. I just hope he gets there. If he is essentially risking life and limb to will the team there, go for it.
Now, if it is more about taking time off looking for say his next contract, that is a whole different kind of selfish.
but Van,
That’s EXACTLY what I think this is, I think he looked at developments this off-season and felt this team wasn’t going anywhere so he pushed his throwing schedule as far into the spring as he could so he could peak later in the season giving him both a better shot at a contract as well as the “glory” of being traded to a contender. He may be arrogant but he’s no dummy.
Wouldn’t it be blissfully ironic if he were traded and the Mets ended up contenders? a la George Foster?
oh, I actually agree with your cynical guesswork. Would not surprise me in the least that he made an intentiional plan with his agent to do this. Just did not expect the level of backlash, and in effect getting called on the carpet for it. Would not be the first time a guy thought he was such a star that he could do anything and get a pass for it. if that is what happened!
i just did not interpret your comments about the PS to mean this.
but best be careful, wait too long and you won’t have trade value!
Typical garbage journalism. Why ramble about Santana? Seems like fans need something to talk about on a slow Tuesday. Santana’s arm is cooked. Stick a fork in him. He won’t finish the year. He knows it. Alderson knows it. Anyone with common sense knows it. Santana is finished as an elite pitcher. Santana is on a team or losers who will be out of the playoffs by the end of June it not earlier. Nothing Santana could have done this offseason will bring the crackle back to his fastball. What happened to Santana has happened to plenty of great and terrible players. They suffered significant injuries and never recovered.
Perhaps writers and fans should put themselves in Santana’s shoes. Would you really give it your all if you know you’re finished as an elite athlete? Of course you wouldn’t. No one wants to go thru surgery. That’s the end result. The real question here should be why the media decided to run with Alderson’s “scathing” analysis on Johan’s condition? Why did this writer choose to run a lame article crucifying a player who means little to the future of this organization? Who really cares about Santana at this point in time? Like I said previously, the man is finished. Stick a fork in him. His career is over. There are better things to talk about other than incendiary articles meant to stir up a worthless, meaningless and superfluous conversation against Johan Santana’s character.
except this past off season is the first one in about 5 that he did NOT have surgery. if anything, this should have been the easiest year for him to R&R from to be ready for the season.
That might actually be part of the problem. When you have surgery, the doctors give you a clear, set rehab path, have you in for checkups, you get a rehab guy, etc. All that focuses your off season work.
but when you don’t have a procedure, you can pretty much go home and just relax. which it seems that he did. It just did not turn out well.
“Perhaps writers and fans should put themselves in Santana’s shoes. Would you really give it your all if you know you’re finished as an elite athlete? Of course you wouldn’t”
I’d like to put myself in $25million a year shoes. I’d hope his salary would dictate his effort and if it doesn’t, it speaks more to his character negatively
IMO an athlete that do to age and injuries whose skills have declined would have pride to live up to his/her previous elite status or know when to retire a.k.a. Chipper Jones and Mario Rivera. The same can be said of Chris Evert and Anika Sorenson.
Mark Pryor did all he could to recover from that surgery. He never gave up mentally but physically it just wasnt there.
So I dont question the drive of a guy, especially some who did achieve elite status. If anything, the opposite is true: they do NOT go quietly into the night but kicking and screaming.
I am sure at this time Johan’s mind is telling him he can do it. Whether he is right or not remains to be seen. But I dont buy for a second that Johan believes he is done.
Its just like Tiger Woods never saw a golf shot that he didnt think he could make? Hell, even Jordan still is wrestling with the fact that he isnt a NBA player and he is retired 10 years. The great ones do not leave easily and Johan is no exception.
taskmaster: Absolutely true, but there are two major exception who both for medical reasons walked away under age thirty. Sandy Koufax due to injury (doctor’s told him if he did not quit his arm would get much worse) walked away in his prime as did another athlete Bobby Jones the great golfer, I think he had Parkison Disease or something like that.
except salary and effort are 2 things that scientifically have never matched up, in ANY profession.
Did Johan give less effort AFTER he signed that contract AND pitched with a TORN MINISCUS on THREE DAYS REST ???
Maybe there is more to the story than Private Eye Martino and the band of ad selling journalists know…
I have never understood the high salary demanding more effort. So if I am a teacher being paid 75,000 I should try harder than the one making 35,000? Or that Roy Williams should try harder than Tony Bennett?(UVA’s coach, can’t help it I’m a UVA fan). To me you either have work ethic or you don’t. That work ethic can change from person to person and situation to situation. If I make 100,000 a year as a teacher (yeah right) and that job is in jeopardy I am going to most likely try harder than someone who has been in the same position for many years and has tenure and a secure job. That’s just human nature. However, some will have pride in their jobs and try harder than most, not because of salary or pressure but because that’s just who they are. They have this desire to always be better than everyone else. However, even those people can get burned out and complacent.
exactly…and Johan over the course of his career has proven to be a high effort guy…
how 14 years of that gets erased with 1 Sandy Alderson snarky remark is amazing to me.
Unless you personally know Johan Santana, you aren’t worthy of deciding whether he is a man of character or not. His salary doesn’t dictate reality. If he’s finished, he’s finished and no Sargentesque form of berating from either mindless fans, lowly reporters or overmatched GMs is going to make Johan’s fastball return to the low to mid 90′s. Johan will pitch a month or two, get shellacked, be sidelined with a “tired arm” and never pitcher again for the team. He will also collect his 31 million dollars which seems to make you a little upset for some odd reason. Come to terms with reality and stop questioning things you’re not suited to question.
I don’t care if he’s dominican, irish, or from one of the moons of Saturn his behaviour is LESS than acceptable right now and unless i hear a story that makes me go “oh, no wonder” he should be working out with his team mates.
what has his behavior been like?
did he boycott practice?
No….
he was seen at the met spring training facility on an off-day working with trainers…
when approached by the media…he waved them off and dismissed them…
did they give him props for working on an off-day? NOPE !
they continued the bashing by saying he was sulking…TOWARDS THEM
and it is kinda true…in this case, its not the wilpons fault…as much as it is Sandy’s foot in mouth disease combined with a blood thirsty gossip hungry media…
Sandy has an awesome vocab but atrocious choice of words. He is really not fit for this town and it is becoming obvious more by the day
I’ve still yet to hear Johan answer or be asked this question
We know today his arm was not ready – why did he make the Mets decide on whether to let him pitch in WBC when he wasn’t ready to pitch for the Mets?
Johan being well respected by every Met fan alive doesn’t mean he can’t be wrong here. He’s getting paid an enormous amount of money and has not lived up to that deal for really the last 3 years. The Mets have invested so much in him and to try and negate that is just silly.
That is the multi-million dollar question….
Hi Joe D,
I totally agree that Johann is way off base being angry with Sandy A and the Mets. It is my thought that Johann never considered not being able to be an effective pitcher any more and that is why he totally rested during the off season. As far as I know, no pitcher has ever fully recovered from this “capsule” surgery that he had and that he has far too many innings pitched over the years. No doubt Santana has always been the warrior with a good attitude but maybe he sees the handwriting on the wall that he is not going to come back at all. It doesn’t excuse his behavior now but it certainly could explain it….
A rude awakening? You bet!
Since, we all know that this coming season is all about continued growth of our younger players and that we still have pieces missing…maybe we would be better off not having Santana in the rotation at all. He’s going to get paid regardless but maybe it allows us to give Hefner and some of the younger power arms a longer look now. As I understand it, Wheeler needs to be in the minors till sometime later in April because of the control of his contract but I am all in favor of seeing him in New York sooner than later. Our team has played above it’s head in the first half of the last few seasons. To bring Wheeler up when the team is struggling in the latter part of the season puts additional pressure on a kid. What they did with Matt Harvey last year could have been a problem for many young pitchers but he was great and showed me that he is more than just a kid with electric stuff!
I go to sleep at night and count on the five starters of our future not sheep!
Harvey….Niese….Wheeler….Gee….Syndergaard…..
Have a great day…..only 3 weeks till opening day!
The real scary thing here is the race group division seen here and the mets clubhouse of the recent past is a reflection of our country as a whole. Its really bad and getting worse.
this^^^^^
“United we stand divided we fall”. Lincoln’s words of wisdom.
I came across this Lincoln phrase once and it continues to be my favorite.
“Character is like a tree and reputation like its shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing.”
North Jersey: Thank you: May I take the liberty to give my take:
Character is the root and the shadow is the refection of the the trunk and its branches.. Our reputation is the fruit we bear and it all stems from the root. Stand tall on character but be flexible enough on everything else so you bend but do not break.
Hey as a history major, you guys be careful quoting Lincoln.
January 1848 he said: “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better.”
TRS86: To paraphrase Lincoln: I do the best I can and if I am wrong ten angles swearing I was right will make no difference.
ten angles would make a decagon.
Correct and for that the angels will not swear I was right. I inadvertently insulted them. Therefore I predict they will win the 2013 WS. Now I have good karma with them again.
And all the Mets Fans said… RAmen.
the same race-group division here is just a projection of ego.
If Reyes was your next door neighbor that you grew up next to your whole life and he made it to the league….you wouldnt care what nationality he was from, you would probably root for him…
as a matter of fact, u would probably root for him, no matter what team he was on…
because u know him PERSONALLY
since 99.999% of us and the reporters dont know these players personally…
we form factions based on qualities we have most in common with.
and the first one on the surface is appearance.
This is why most surburban Met fans made fun of Reyes and called him a dirty looking Predator when he had his dreadlocks here.
Any person from the carib just sees another hairstyle.
Santana has been rather quiet since the whole unscheduled pitching on the mound incident. It doesn’t look good as far as him going North with the team when camp breaks. There is no reported projected schedule from neither the Mets or Santana as to his preparation for the oncoming season of late and that concerns me if it has anything to do with that unscheduled mound session.
Saw something earlier this morning where even though it’s a Mets off day, 3 cars were in the PSL parking lot, with Johan’s being one of them.
Then a little later, Johan had this to say to the media that was there: ‘No comprende an off day?’
He went on to say he doesn’t know yet when the next time he will pitch off a mound.
Thanks for the info SRT. It is not looking good. I want to believe that if Santana could pitch he would and he would not allow what I would describe as pouting if some reports are true keep him from pitching so his lack of pitching is leading me to speculate that something may be wrong with his arm despite statements to the contrary.
so how he treats a pack of gossip-hungry liars who make up un-named sources to sell stories is a case of Johan pouting??
ok
lol
I don’t know what Santana is doing and if you read my comment I said “IF” some of the reports are true.
I know you will find this hard to accept but there s a small chance that maybe just maybe there is some truth behind the reports. As incredible as it may sound.
yes…and is it possible that the way they handled his injury in July with the ankle, could’ve contributed to poor mechanics, which may have messed up his arm permanently ?
we have a laundry list of players who have said ownership has forced them to play through injury
braden looper
schneider
piazza
reyes
pelfrey
the list goes on and on
the player is compromised and ownership walks away as if they had no part
then when the player stands up for himself ( beltran ), ownership makes him look like the bad guy for being responsible.
going by track record, I say Johan is probably in the right here..
the fact that he is giving reporters the cold shoulder is contributing to negative stories.
go look at stories about Roberto Clemente in the 60′s…
its the same crap
selfish, moody, only cares about stats
it turns out reporters were just projecting THEIR feelings about Clemente and pronouncing them as FACT
his teammates all praise him to a T
flash forward 40 years later and Beltran, Castillo, Santana all go through the SAME THING
but when a FORMER TEAMMATE of Mike Piazza actually bashes him, calls him selfish, moody, obsessed with stats….
the NY media quickly forgets about it when Mike P comes to town…
and when that awkward move/non-move to 1B came about…not a peep about Mike being selfish
despite the fact that his defense was among the worst in the league by that point…
not a peep about Mike P wanting to break the HR record for catchers being more important than the team
so yeah…when we get more diversity in the media, we will begin to see some different points of views, which may lead to some objective fans.
Til then…the sports world has a bunch of Rupert Murdoch Fox/NYPost style “reporters” ready to throw anything remotely brown under the bus and who sensationalize EVERYTHING HUMANLY POSSIBLE to sell ads
team scrappy all day everyday
Like I said, I know this may be hard for you to believe.
is it possible that Johan is bitter towards the met front office?
absolutely…
is it possible that there has been more going on b/w Johan and the met front office the past 3 years….?
MORE THAN LIKELY
sweet jesus u folks are so pig-headed…
do u really think u know what every player is feeling at all times towards his front office ?
is Ike Davis bitter towards the front office?
How about Ruben Tejada? is he still mad at Terry over last year’s spring training fiasco?
Is he mad at Matt Cerrone and Metsblog for inaccurately reporting that he injured his hamstring diving into 1B?
Dude really pig headed? Maybe your just a tad bit defensive? just a little bit? Look at all I said and you respond with all this?
This is pretty ridiculous. Are you trying to get more page views Joe?
I kind of have to agree with Joe D here. Naturally I don’t know the whole story but Santana is a major league baseball player being paid very well. I love Johan but his behaviour this spring is a bit too much for even me. Yes I despise Sandy Alderson with every breath I take but the man made a comment, okay let it sting for a couple days but it’s time to join your TEAM MATES and start getting ready for the season already.
Enough is enough Johan. PLAY BALL!
He’s done!…He won’t win 1 game for us this year. I’m so sick of him and can’t wait until I never have to see him again. He has never been the ace he was supposed to be. He’s been, at best, a good 2 or 3 starter. He’s been in steady decline since before we even got him. His average speed of his fastball dropped in 3 consecutive years leading up to when we got him. We have had some terrible contracts in recent years, but his has been the worst… Totally leaving our whole organization in a choke hold the last 5 years.
Good riddance Yohan
This was poor damage control with Alderson saying what he should have a week ago “Only Santana can know when the arm is ready, etc.”
But Santana could also dial it down at this point. He’s frustrated and that’s understandable, but that’s neither the Mets nor the medias fault he is not where he wants to be.
This is typical Wilpon BS, and I’m surprised so many here can’t see that.
Johan Santana worked his butt off to come back from his shoulder injury and worked out and threw over all of last offseason. Mets brass believed that’s part of the reason he had to be shut down last year because he never gave himself sufficient rest. So heading into this years offseason they told him to rest and take it easy, and that was it. No further communication, no directions as to an offseason program, just rest. So he shows up out of pitching shape and Jeff Wilpon decides to tell the media about it.
Keep in mind Johan is the same person that pulled the Mets by their teeth in 2008 on 3 days rest to save their season. The same guy that came back from a shoulder injury that ends most pitchers careers, and also threw a no hitter. And Wilpon really needs to question this guys professionalism?
The whole thing is a complete joke, and Johan has every right to be furious. What Wilpon is essentially doing is dirtying up Johans name. Santana, being the proud man he is, I’m sure does not appreciate it one bit. And all he did was follow the Mets vague instructions.
But this is the difference between the Mets and well run organizations. Some teams keep this stuff in house. Some teams actually communicate with their players in the offseason. The Mets, they throw their players under the bus.
Jeff Wilpon is a J#rk-0f.f!
Ah…the Wilpons. You blame them for life itself.
Yeah, The Wilpons really have a LOT to do with the current Santana situation.
No shocker you fell for the typical Wilpon “throw the player under the bus” okey doke. As you are as inept as they come. Do me a favor and stop polluting my posts by putting your name under them.
You’re right,
Go back and read the rest of your conspiracy theory books I bet you have in your possession. Why don’t you blame the Wilpons for the JFK assassination while you’re at.
But you have it easy. A ready-made built-in excuse for anything that happens with the Mets – The Wilpons. It’s unbelievable how much you refuse to distribute the proper accountability where it goes. Accountability is probably not even in your vocabulary. Why? Blame the Wilpons.
Bayonne is right (LOL) for once this isn’t on the Wilpons. But why are people saying “Yeah Santana screw Sandy, don’t pitch!” Um don’t we want Santana pitch? The guy was so gung ho about pitching in the WBC but can’t throw a bullpen session for the team that’s paying him $25 million this season. Sounds like the dudes being a bitch. How dare Sandy want his arguably best SP and potential trade chip to actual pitch.
Who cares about the whole story? Are you serious, the guy is freaking making 30 mill this year, he is a huge percentage of the payroll, 30 mill, 30 mill, 30 mill, shut your mouth and throw the ball and be happy your getting that kind of money when you are worth a quarter if it if that. The Mets should be bitter, are you kidding me. They are a better team without him and the 30 mill.
Hmmm seems similar story brewing in Philly (similar not exact), Phillies pubically claiming concern for Halladay. So it doesn’t just happen to the NY Mets
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?c_id=mlb&content_id=42652684&partnerId=as_mlb_20130312_6347604&vkey=news_mlb&ymd=20130312
awesome…now lets see the part where Ruben Amaro calls out Doc for not being in pitching shape
What part of similar (not exact) do you not understand?
Was he in pitching shape? NO
So Santana and “some” are still getting their drawers in a bunch over the truth now. WOW
except there is no controversy with Doc not being in pitching shape. The article clearly stated he worked out this off-season…
Hi Guys,
Know I previously mentioned this, but no matter who is responsible for the public friction (be it the front office, Johann or a combination of both) what is of importance is that Sandy and those he works are responsible for creating this serious public doubt in their character due the deceptive manner they had conducted themselves publicly the last few years.
My feelings about this front office are well known yet when the story broke I did say that the original text by Sandy did not appear critical at all but indeed just an explanation about Johann’s condition and I would give Sandy a pass on this unless more information was uncovered to prove otherwise.
But I would not categorize having doubts as total conspiracy theory, either. As we know, the front office was telling us about Johann was to be the opening day starter – the same front office that in early in 2011 told us that we might be surprised at how soon Santana would be back – while all the time it understood if he would be back at all, it would not be until mid to late August.
So it might very well be that they were completely caught off guard by what they were led to believe by Johann – or it could also be they were aware most all of the winter that Johann had a serious problem getting his pitching arm in shape because and, just like those early months of 2011, wanted to paint a different story so not to hamper season ticket plans by even hinting they still had an injury plagued Johann.
Who knows? It might not be nothing more than a clash of egos and personalities. Yet, if nothing else, it’s their lack of integrity from the past coming back to bite them now. That’s going to remain a problem much longer than whatever happens with Santana’s arm.
Guys,
Wanted to add to that possible conspiracy theory – with the cat now out of the bag, it’s no longer a case of trying to deceive the public about Johann being ready for opening day as it is now creating the image of either not knowing or being told something altogether different and making Santana the fall guy so to take the heat away from them.
Far fetched indeed and I’m only playing devil’s advocate here for none of us know what has actually transpired. But as mentioned before, it could be them fully being caught off guard – after all, Johann is a professional who has earned the right to be his own judge on his off-season training – and a matter of their past now coming back to bite them.
Any thoughts from the original writer of this article ?
Joe D ?
Santana also confirmed what I wondered earlier that maybe he miscalculated in his decision to take a full break this off season when he admitted that he didn’t know what to expect after his decision to take a “full break”
“Coming back from not throwing or facing hitters and competing since August is not easy to do,” Santana said. “I didn’t know what to expect. You’ve got to go out there and do it and see hot it feels and that is what we were doing.”
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/metsblog/santana_on_the_same_page_with_mets_htKdNvr7xoqzCDEix6irfM
“, but until he gets on that mound and starts pitching like he’s capable of,”
That’s just it Joe, what IS he capable of anymore?
Exactly….no one including Johan knows. Not everyone reacts to surgery the same way. The tank could be empty and he may be this years Jason Bay.
But one would still think that the Mets and Santana would be in touch with each other so everyone was on board knowing he was taking a full break this off season.
Perhaps it’s more that neither recognized how weak his pitching arm would thus be coming to spring training. Even so, then why the internal friction?
Even though we got a new front office, the medical team stayed the same. So the fact that Moe didn’t know what Larry and Curly were doing comes as no surprise.
….and thats why I think Sandy is a fraud of a GM….
JOE D – Since Santana landed on your doodoo list and you REFUSE TO BE OBJECTIVE, I now have to call you OUT once again…
But one would still think that the Mets and Santana would be in touch with each other so everyone was on board knowing he was taking a full break this off season.
“Santana told Rubin he and the team were in alignment on his conditioning program ALL WINTER and it was them who told him to go home and rest in August.”
“They told me to relax and go home and just take some time off. And that’s what I did. And then I started getting back in my conditioning and all that, but not into pitching,” Santana explained.
Santana said it takes time to build up the proper pitching strength in order to get into a full throwing program – since he did not throw all winter, he simply wasn’t prepared to go through normal cycles at camp and the arm fatigue is a result of that.
Funny how you left all of that out…..
Are you becoming to Santana what Chass was to Piazza?
Hi Just,
Hope you are not referring to me since it was me whom you quoted. I have taken a neutral position on this despite my deeply rooted non-respect for this front office not because it is trying to fight to retain ownership by the actions it has taken but with the double-talk and carefully orchestrated deception to paint a completely different picture as to why they are taking the steps they are – and that included the smear campaigns.
I’ve presented my thoughts as could be advocated by both parties and then as a third person seeing it a combination of both. I’ve even suggested what some would call a conspiracy theory that the Mets knew all along of Santana’s physical ailment but wanted it kept quiet so not to affect the sale of season ticket plans as long as possible (like they did with Johann, Beltran, Reyes, Bay, Church and others in the past) and now that they cannot hold back the news any longer, they are trying to focus the heat squarely on Johann in order not to appear devious in their own way.
Again, that is only one theory and though it is tough to resist – I am not going to proclaim it or take sides because there is indeed too little information.
That’s why I emphasize the most important lesson to be learned – that if the organization was led to believe that Johann was in pitching shape (and I never said that was the case) – that it is a case of the boy who cried wolf – the front office has been caught in so many lies and deception for their own business interests that this time few believe they might have been the ones caught up in being led to believe something that wasn’t exactly true.
Again, after being frank about my contempt for this front office, I can only hope that your remarks were not meant for me simply because I wanted to show my objectivity and not appear to be simply anti-Alderson whenever the opportunity arises to badmouth him.
I think he’s done. DL or no DL, I don’t think we’re getting much out of Johan this season or ever again. Even if he could reinvent himself as a finesse pitcher, I think the arm troubles run too deep.
I hope I’m wrong. But as a fan, my expectations for Santana’s contribution is close to zero.
On the other hand, I have ridiculously high expectations for Niese and Harvey. I think we’re looking at two guys are going to battle each other for supremacy of the staff and both finish top 8 in the Cy Young voting.
Hey, Joe D.
You’ve done well.
100 comments for nothing.
Sure woukd make sense to be bitter, I mean it is a walk year for him, he is a free agent and what better way to get a contract than to act bitter, sounds pig headed since most free agents in the last year of their contracts want to play for another contract and are usually at there best. Yep real slick
I don’t blame him for taking his time, he should, but if he never insisted to pitch in the WBC then this would not be as much of a problem. It is more or a less just a media driven circus cause well,that’s their job. I find it hard myself to be angry at someone who is paying me 30 mill for this year to play a game. Must be a tough life.
I just don’t buy it. Johan has been a total professional not just with the Mets, but for his entire career. Plus he’s a proud guy and what the Mets did was try to dirty up his name. Something I imagine Johan takes very seriously.
Just ask yourself this……What is out of character? Johan criticizing the front office, or the Mets publicly embarrassing a player? We’ve seen one before, and one is totally out of character.
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