Sandy Alderson’s Philosophy On Evaluating Terry Collins

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• Bayonne Mets Fan March 2, 2013 at 11:44 am

  “Say what you want about, Sandy,” Joe said. “But one thing I respect him for is that he always gives us a thoughtful, well-detailed and analytic response to our questions.”

  That’s a good thing? What happened to all the analytic lying Alderson is accused of? Especially by writers like YOU and Joe D? And more than half the people on this site accuse him of? Because one day he spoke to some bloggers and their walking on cloud 9 cause they spoke to a celebrity that has changed?

  Isn’t it normal for lawyer types to pick & choose their words carefully?
  And you’re telling me that listening to Alderson speak is better than the last 3 GMs?

  John, what the hell are you talking about, please?
  • Joey D. March 2, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    Hi John,

    I have to ask the same questions as Bayonne.

    In Mitch’s post about Sandy’s plan I went to great (and probably for some, quite boring) detail as to the evidence of how Sandy was being dishonest – and actually going out of his way – to paint an altogether inaccurate picture of the Mets financial stability when it came to roster decisions. Other times we all referred to the double-talk, like the switch from being “buyers” in less than three weeks last season, etc.

    Yes, I agree that Sandy could sometimes being very frank and candid – and appreciative of that. I don’t believe I’ve ever heard a general manager admit to knowingly going after inexpensive players he knew he could not win with because the team had no money. Very honest.

    But also proof he could be quite dishonest as well, taken into account how convincing he was when intentionally trying to paint a totally different scenario while acquiring hose “inexpensive” players. Same with our – expensive players; Reyes, Beltran, KRod) were already planned to be shipped out the door long before anyone ever heard of Zack Wheeler or Jose became a batting champion.

    For example, what about all the time saying re-signing Jose was a priority when he never had a formal discussion with his agent and made a formal offer – while at the same time he and Ricco flew to Houston meet with Boras and Bourn. Why such effort if the Mets were not going to sign him if it meant the possible lose of the team’s protected first round draft slot and, in turn, so little effort to meet with Jose and his agent until Miami began talking with him – and even at that point, it was just over the phone with no formal offer even in place?

    So even when he appears to be honest, how can one really trust him as being so? Perhaps it would have been better just taking him at his word and expanding on it without adding:

    “On a side note, not too many GM’s are as open and forthcoming with the media as this one is. After our conference call, Joe D. said something to some of us who participated that nobody disagreed with.

    “Say what you want about, Sandy,” Joe said. “But one thing I respect him for is that he always gives us a thoughtful, well-detailed and analytic response to our questions.”

    “Thinking back to the last three general managers the Mets have had before Alderson, Joe is right.”

    That does raise the question about the ability to be objective and impartial regardless of the subject matter. Or am I misunderstanding the point you and Joe are making by confusing “thoughtful, well-detailed and analytic response” with “honest” responses? As Sandy has shown, he is both analytical and less than honest at the same time.
    • ray sadecki March 2, 2013 at 9:45 pm

      Hi Joey,

      According to published reports, the marlins offered reyes 105m at 12:01 on the day he hit free agency. Why is alderson going to wine and dine him when he knew he wasnt in that ballpark at all?
      • Metsie March 2, 2013 at 10:43 pm

        I don’t kno what published reports you read but most had the intial offer at 96 Mil and it didn’t jump to 106 Mil until the Winter Meetings were going on and he had teams ask him to schedule a visit.

        Marlins heard that and said here is 106 Mil offer take it now or leave it….

        Reyes’ Agent took it and never scheduled those visits.
      • Joey D. March 2, 2013 at 10:56 pm

        Hi Ray,

        Question: “Why is alderson going to wine and dine him when he knew he wasnt in that ballpark at all?”

        Answers:

        Because Sandy said he had an understanding of what Jose was seeking.

        Because while Jose said he wanted to concentrate on the season and not be distracted (just like David) Sandy still had a month after the season ended when he had exclusive rights to wine and dine Jose all by himself and never attempted to.

        Because Sandy said it wasn’t the money but that the Mets wanted a vesting option to protect them against injury

        Because he never met with Jose’s agent during that exclusive period to negotiate a contract with that vesting option included – before the Marlins came into the picture and there was no knowledge if other teams would offer such contracts without one (even Cleveland got a vesting option with Bourn).

        Because Sandy said he was still serious about negotiating with Jose’s agent even after being told of the Miami offer – and knowing he only had small window of opportunity left he did not conduct himself in the same manner when he flew down with Riccio to meet face to face with Boras and Bourn – the proper way negotiations are conducted.

        Because of all we know now about the financial problems facing the Mets when Sandy took over, his attempt to not just cover it up but to make a concerted effort so for it to appear the Mets were on solid financial footing.

        Because on Fox Business News after Jose signed with the Marlins Sandy said a team that lost $70 million could not afford to spend money on high priced players – while prior to that on SNY he told Kevin Burkhardt that the money figure wasn’t the issue as it was that aforementioned vetting option.

        Because Sandy admitted last September these past two years those financial problems forced him to only sign (or not re-sign in this case) inexpensive players because there was no money.

        Because by the time spring training ended it was apparent Jose was healthy and fully recovered and still during April, May and half of June Sandy had no formal conversation with Jose’s agent.

        Because during those early months it was also apparent Jose was at the top of his game in speed, fielding range and of course hitting .

        And because of all the above and all the hypocrisies associated with Sandy he has lost the credibility to take him at his word that his to priority was to re-sign Jose.

        I think that’s about it.
• Sandy's Mets March 2, 2013 at 12:04 pm

  Careful, well articulated responses frustrate and perhaps frighten some knuckle dragging fans. I never had a problem with Sandy giving truthful responses that were positive in nature. Listen to what is said by spokespeople for just about any Fortune 500 company. Like Sandy, they know how to get their message out.

  Nice job, John.
• Dan from Whitestone March 2, 2013 at 12:13 pm

  If you guys are comfortable with him, then so am I.

  Bayonne, if these people on this site actually talk to him, who are we say otherwise? The other thing is that people often change their mind and are entitled to. John has spoken and dealt with a lot of GMs and if that’s what he thinks I’m going to assume he’s being honest. What does he have to gain by lying? Do you get where I’m coming from?
• CThomp519 March 2, 2013 at 1:25 pm

  There seems to be a couple of people who comment regularly on this site, that only have two goals when it comes to their comments. One is to scream, rant, and rave about Sandy Alderson. The other is to find anything possible in regards to the MMO writing staff, even the tiniest of details, to scream, rant, and rave about.

  Doesn’t this get boring?
  • Hotstreak March 2, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    Bottom line (wins vs. losses) and development and use of of assets. Sometimes they are in conflict but a good organization is adapt at both.

    Oh bottom line means attendance and breakeven instead of losses. The manager is usually the scape goat. However if Terry gets in the playoffs he will get an extension unless he wants to retire or be reassigned on his own volition.
• Alex68 March 2, 2013 at 2:18 pm

  If this team star poorly, look for Collins to be fired midway and bob geren the guy Alderson brought in will be the interim manager. In order for collins to hang around the team, the mets need to play well and win.
• taskmaster4450 March 2, 2013 at 2:25 pm

  I sense Collins needs to get to the playoffs to get an extension. He was brought in to change the “culture” and he seems to have done that. My belief is that Alderson never saw Collins as one to take the team to the playoffs year after year.

  My prediction is that Terry, short of a playoff spot, is reassigned at year’s end and the interview process will begin. And, I predict that the job will not go to Backman but, rather, Geren.
• Alex68 March 2, 2013 at 2:31 pm

  Task, which is my exact thoughts. Geren was brought here by sandy, I believe somehow he will be the mets coach because IMHO he preaches and practice the same philosophy the FO is tryin to install all around the mets organization.
• Metsie March 2, 2013 at 3:50 pm

  I find it completly rediculous that this FO is still evaluating Terry after two years of seeing him work!

  First year I get, you want to see how quickly he gets his program installed
  Second year you see if any improvement was made from that program.

  If they don’t know by now if they like the job he is doing tey NEVER WILL!

  If this team doesn’t win more it sure won’t be because of what the Manager did it will be because of what the FO gave him to work with!

  And that has been less and less every year!
  Even the kids he has supposedly brought here selling off the few talents we had, have yet to play a single game that counts as an MLB player!

  It should only take two years to evaluate if you like the manager as a manager. After that his job should only be in question if he looses the team that should have been successful.

  No one can say this team SHOULD have been successful but the Manager cost them.
  So if they are still evaluating or are not sure about what they have it says more about them and thier ability to know what is good than anything about Terry’s abilities as a Manager!
  • Bayonne Mets Fan March 2, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    You are 100% percent correct Metsie, if the team is struggling it will be mainly because of the neglect of the front office. This roster should have some more talent on it instead of wasting everybody’s time with all this filler. And let me also I’m not on the Cowgill bandwagon just yet. I’m going to have to see a lot more before i can believe that a journeyman has suddenly found it.
    • Metsie March 2, 2013 at 6:42 pm

      In th case of someone like Manuel who had what was supposed to be a GREAT team and never met expectations you have plenty of reason to blame him…

      Even the Injury as an excuse does not apply because PART of his job is to make sure they are fit, not overworked, get the rest they need and are healthy and on that field.

      You can say Manuel failed in that effort.

      Terry has had injuries happen too…But most were either a player who came in or had a history of Injury issues (Young, Reyes, Santana) or were freakish in nature such as Ike, Wright and Baxter.

      Tejada can be explained by his lateness to camp and maybe doing too muc to get out of the doghouse….
      Terry was correct on the score of Tejada should have been there the only fault you can put on him was making a federal and media case out of it…Mistakes are human….Thats why Pencils have erasers! LOL

      The only knock I can lay at the feet of Terry so far is his over compensation in R/L Splits….
      He shuld not have played the B Team just because they were RHB vs LHPs.

      But when your FO leaves you a team that is Lefty Hefty, doesn’t even recognize that and in ST look for a Lefty hitting 4th OF to come off the bench (remember the Ankiel Rumors?).
      I can’t even really blame him all that much….
      They should have provided him with a balanced lineup he could use everyday and pick and choose days to go a little more righty than Lefty…
      But he didn’t have that.
• Padilla March 2, 2013 at 8:49 pm

  Collins deserves an A+ for trying to make a crap team a winner. He has to take all the rotten mistakes Alderson brings in. Alderson is the failure., Collins proved he can mange.