12
2013
Joe Torre Has Found His Derek Jeter In David Wright For Team USA
An article by 
Updated on March 12 at 11:00 AM
Kevin Kernan of the New York Post caught my attention when he tweeted that Joe Torre has found his Derek Jeter in David Wright. He was referring his latest article this morning in which he writes that David Wright has emerged as a true leader for Team USA.
No matter how Team USA fares in the World Baseball Classsic, Wright’s performance is good for the Mets and good for his career. Now that Wright is surrounded by other talented players his talents are on display, as bright as a July Fourth fireworks show.
Wright is hitting .455 with a .571 on base percentage and .818 slugging percentage. He is a leader for manager Joe Torre in much the same way Derek Jeter was Torre’s captain in pinstripes. Fred Wilpon called Wright the Mets’ Jeter, and now Wright is Team USA’s Jeter.
“He’s everything you hoped he would be,” Torre said. “He just looks like that guy that you’d like to talk to or hang out with or have him on your team, and just to see the maturity and the presence he has in the clubhouse, in the lineup, he’s a very responsible player.“You know it’s not that he craves the spotlight, but he doesn’t shy away from it. What a special individual he is character-wise. I know we have a lot of talented players in all sports, but when you can sit there and just admire somebody for more than just his ability, that’s saying something, and I’m pleased to say that about David.’’
Read the rest of the article here.
Team USA has advanced to the Semi-Finals and faces a very tough Puerto Rican team today. The game will be broadcast live at 8:00 PM on MLB Network.
Originally Posted on March 10 at 9:30 AM
What a night for Team USA and David Wright at Chase Field last night as they beat Team Italy 6-2 in the World baseball Classic.
The difference maker was a tie-breaking grand slam off the bat of Wright that sent the crowd into a frenzy – and Twitter too. My tweet shortly after the blast said it all:
Hell Yeah!!! David Wright + Grand Slam + Team USA = Captain America!
— Mets Merized Online (@MetsMerized) March 10, 2013
Wright barely missed a home run in his first at-bat when he launched one to the wall in right field in the second inning, but his fifth inning blast was a no-doubter and kept Team USA from being eliminated.
“It’s emotional,” Wright said. “You hear the ‘USA’ chants, you look up in the stands and you see the flags, you look in the dugout and you see ‘USA’ across the front of guys’ chests and across their hats, and you get caught up in the game and you get a little emotional.”
For Team USA, moving to the semi-finals is contingent on a victory over Team Canada today at Chase Field in the finale of Pool D of the World Baseball Classic. The game will be broadcast live at 4:00 PM on MLB Network.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 24 | 18 | .571 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 20 | .535 | 1.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 23 | .465 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 24 | .400 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 32 | .256 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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Feel lighter than air. What a cleansing for Met Fans! Heard radio re-broadcast – the crowd was in an absolute frenzy.
Go David Wright. Go Mets Go Team USA!!!
See this fits into my argument about clutch hits.
Tie game in the 4th, that grand slam to me is as clutch of a hit as you can get. Just because it doesn’t happen in the 9th inning, doesn’t mean it’s any less important.
You are just begging for trouble. aren’t you.
haha I’m just sayin… it’s based on memory not action. If this were a Mets game, a year from now somebody will look at a box score and say “well that happened in the 5th inning so it wasn’t clutch.” but I disagree.
There is less room for error in the 9th inning, but that doesn’t negate the importance of a hit like this
I am on the same page with you on this theory but you know you are treading dangerous 200 comment water.
haha nah it’s sunday.
Good Point.
you were saying?
well, considering it is a very polite, reasonable, well thought out and articulate intelligent comment, it is truly sad that the first thing people think of is how the people that are none of those things will overreact and ruin another thread.
but, that is the world we live in I guess.
Doesn’t happen in the 7th, 8th or 9th, because Wright clams up. Happens to soft players…..
Well then why did you argue with me when I said Any hit that scores a run or has an increased chance to score one is actually a CLUTCH Situation since you don’t know yet if that is the key score that wins the game or not?
I agree it was a clutch hit….
And nothing team Italy could have done later would have changed that.
Even if they tied the score later on and Team USA needed to score another run to win…They don’t win without that initial success in the earlier clutch situation….
When I said this I got taken to task because Clutch was something only about your chances to win a game at the time…
Glad you came around to my POV on this…
if this were not an exhibition game….than u might have a point…
It sent chills down my spine as a Met fan and as a Team USA fan too. Wright looks ready for an MVP season in 2013.
I haven;t had the ability to watch any of these games this week. I like the WBC (except I wish it was played after the WS) and it’s nice to see David actually playing for something.
THANK YOU MLB NETWORK FOR REPLAYING THAT GAME!!!
When I hear what happened last night I was so sad that I missed it, but was able to catch it during the rebroadcast and it was great to see.
Oh and Captain America? Definitely!
LETS GO METS!
Wright had a big clutch his in the last WBC as well and like the announcer said, seeing Wright come through in a big spot is becoming a recurring theme in the WBC.
Ooops it should say clutch HIT not his.
he had the walk-off hit against PR in 2009…
he has a grand-slam in 2013….
he has a mountain full of failures during the regular season…
u guys are so friggin desperate…
this WBC is like a pre-season game….the Winter league in DR is more competitive than this !
Mountain full of failures in the regular season?
Like a game winning home run with a broken back? Like having the best stretches of his career at the end of 2007 and 2008?
like being a career .301/.380/.506 hitter?
Like 6 All Star Games and 4 top 10 MVP finishes?
You and I define “failure” differently.
I think that this shows that Wright is just Wright. Not clutch or unclutch or gritty or soft or superstar or pos. He is David Wright, a .300 hitter with some pop and average to above average defense and speed. Very well rounded player doing it on a large stage.
Trs86: I am posting this poem again because it is so appropriate to reply to your post about about David: I wish DW can be a consistent .300 hitter instead of a .350 hitter first half and .250 hitter 2nd half. To say DW is a .300 hitter (career wise it is correct) but it is misleading:
There was a little girl who had a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead;
When she was good, she was very, very good,
And when she was bad she was horrid.
He’s a .303 hitter in the first and a .298 hitter in the second for his career. His home and away are very similar as are his month by month. Sure the last couple of years haven’t shown that but when you look at his career he is a .300 hitter through and through.
I kind of wonder why a down August/September the last couple of years seems to be a huge indicator of what he is, but prior years when he had huge finishes (in pennant chases no less) seem to be totally discounted, as if the guy that had them no longer exists.
ummm…his stats have been night/day in the 1st half/2nd half since 2009…bringing up career stats is absolutely useless when bringing this topic up.
expecting him to have a 2007 2nd half b/c his career numbers dictate it is like expecting Ozzie Smith to win a gold glove in 2013 b/c thats what he always did
Fact is, David is 30 and hasnt produced a consistent season since he was 25.
It’s a shame the Mets wasted the first half of his career. Here’s hoping the future is brighter. He is a guy who begs to be in that position. He’s raised his hand to play in every WBC and never turned down an all star game, unlike so many other stars. The new young stars of today like Trout and Harper could learn something from players like Wright.
The only time this choke artist shines……
Let them have their day. This is an exhibition.
Why isn’t it your day too? A very good Mets player hit a grand slam for the USA should that be all Mets fans day?
Eh, let it go man. Condescension is at least better than the usual travesty.
Where were you last July when he had the walkoff against Papelbum? Haters gotta hate.
By the time DW gets to Phoenix;
Hotstreak wrote: on MetblogTuesday, April 26, 2011 9:04 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_%28mythology%29
“The vultures were out. DW was mired in an oh for 20 slump. Fans said what happened to him. He had two strikes and swung and just got a small piece to stay alive or more accurately be reborn from the ashes. The rise of the Phoenix against the Arizona Diamondbacks. The rebirth of DW. Now flying high he will once again lead the way.”
A reply to my post in effect said no way that DW was too streaky and will in effect burn up to be reborn again. Sadly he proved to be right.
David Wright represents the Team USA uniform well. I’m proud of him.
Anyone notice how Wright has hit the ball a lot better ever since reverting back to his 2006 stance?
What is he doing differently? Evening his swing out more?
Great players always rise to the occasion!
Oh please…………..!
I always see this type of ridiculous chest-thumping on games or plays that don’t count. Let’s see all this happen when it matters. And since the Mets won’t be under any late September pressure this year we won’t begin to re-evaluate this guy under the spotlight until the next time (if ever) the Mets are in a race with him on the team.
In the Meantime enjoy your meaningless March exhibition. See me when it counts.
It’s just a fun pre-season baseball tournament. No need to get all worked up and try to start a flame war.
You’re right, it’s a meaningless fun exhibition.
Tell that to Canada and Mexico
Wow, forgive me for living. I didn’t realize that saying something nice about one of our players was so offensive to you. For all the complaining you do about Wright, I can’t think of one current Met you do like. Who do you actually like and root for on this team? Anybody?
well, good thing that he has a track record of rising to the occasion. the last 2 times the mets were in the pennant race at the end of the season, he came up huge. I guess that means he really is “clutch”.
Probably the single most intentionally inaccurate 180 degree comment every made on MMO but I won’t get into it as it’s been covered here ad nauseum already.
if by that you mean there have been many instances of people proving though the #s (traditional ones, not just but including saber ones) that he came up big in august/September 07-08, then yes, it has been thoroughly covered.
as the years go by and the memories fade even more I have this feeling Wright’s legacy of failure during the stretches of 07/08 will become even more falsely embellished.
good luck with that, but that is one of the beauties of baseball, the #s remain even as memories get fuzzy.
and in this case the numbers lied big time. Wright was an abysmal failure when given the opportunity multiple times of giving his team the lead with a big hit – he failed. But keep lying to yourself.
By the way where is Wright’s highlight reel as a Met? A big hit vs. Mariano Rivera? A couple of big HRs in June? His first walk off hit last year since the middle 2008?
Give me a list of all of Wright big hits that put the Mets in a chance to get into the post season. Name them. You know what? There are none.
crickets…
yup….i went game for game…and in most tight/close situations after the 7th inning where DW had a chance to come through…he failed…
Actually so did I and I found he came through roughly around 1/3 of the time. Go figure a guy that hits .300…
1/3 of the time?
late and close after the 7th inning ?
For 2007/2008, I posted each individual game, all his AB’s and each result….
please show me where DW was coming through in those situations.
this should settle the “clutch” debate with regards to those years once and for all….
First of all everyone has a different definition of clutch but we will go with your arbitrary 7th inning on and “close”. Also to determine which one of those is “clutch” if down 2 or less I counted it. Down 3 there had to be runners on for me to consider it “clutch”. I also consider walks as getting on base. I am sure some will have an issue with that. We can debate if that is clutch or not but when you have Beltran and Delgado batting behind you… Either way, I did one counting walks and one not.
Sept 1: No clutch opportunities.
Sept 2: 5th inning HR of Smoltz to break the tie… oh yeah that’s not clutch so no clutch chances.
Sept 3: No clutch chances
Sept 4: 8th inning up 8-6 with 2 men on, Wright flys out. (0-1)
Sept 5: No chances
Sept 7th: Down 0-2 in the 3rd Wright drives in 2, doesn’t count. No more clutch opportunities.
Sept 8th: Tied bottom of the 3rd, Wright HR, doesn’t count. No more clutch opportunities.
Sept 10th: Bottom of the 6th up 1-0, Wright 2 run HR off Tim Hudson, doesn’t count. Ahead 3-2 in the 8th Wright walks. (1-2)
Sept 11th: No chances
Sept 12: Bottom of 7th up 2-1 Wright flys out. (1-3)
Sept 14: Bottom of the 8th HBB with Reyes on 1B. No other chances. (2-4)
Sept 15: Wright up with Reyes at 2B and 2 outs in bottom of 6th up 3-2. Reyes caught stealing 3rd with 2 outs. Forces Wright to have to lead off next inning and grounds out. Bottom of the 9th down 2 runner on 2B, Wright K’s. (2-6)
Sept 16th: No chances
Sept 17th: No chances
Sept 18th: Grounds into DP down 7-8 bottom of the 8th. (2-7)
Sept 19th: Top of the 3rd down 2-1 Wright ties game, doesn’t count. Top of 5th drives in run to go up 4-2, doesn’t count. Top of 7th up 6-3 Wright Drives in Castillo after an error. No more chances. (3-8)
Sept 20th: Top of the 8th down one, Wright lead off single, Beltran, Alou and Connie fail to advance the runner. Top of 9th up 6-4 Wright grounds out with runner on 2B. (4-10)
Sept 21st: No chances.
Sept 22nd: No chances.
Sept 23rd: Top of 8th down one leading off inning, Walks. Top of 9th up one, Wright grounds out. Top of 11th tied runners on 1st and 2nd, Wright drives in run to take lead. (6-13)
Sept 24th: No chances.
Sept 25th: Wright singles down 6-10 in 9th, Alou HR and makes it 9-10. Doesn’t count. No chances.
Sept 26th: No chances.
Sept 27th: No chances.
Sept 28th: Down 4-7 in bottom of 7th with runner on 1st, single. Down 4-7 in bottom of 9th with runner on 1st, Wright grounds out. (7-15)
Sept 29th: Wright goes 3/4 but doesn’t count because none were “clutch”. No chances.
Sept 30th: No chances.
So counting walks, on base 7/15 times in “clutch” situations.
Not counting walks, 4/12.
You do the math.
.333 .467
Wright in September over all:
.352 .432 .602 1.034
Wright in August and September:
.372 .474 .628 1.102
Wright during last 7 games where Mets go 1-6
.400 .455 .467 .921
Sorry buddy but Wright isn’t clutch or unclutch. He’s just Wright.
that was certainly exhaustive. thanks for spending the time.
one thing that sticks out from that stretch is the walks. basically teams wanted no part of him, so in huge spots they worked around him and dealt with whoever was behind him ( I assume this was 2007 so he was hitting 5th?).
bottom line, he had a huge September and repeatedly brought the team back from being down (which given the state of the pitching, was damned near every inning). And without him in the lineup, there was no game 161 heroics or 162 heartbreak, since they would have probably been eliminated before that.
most ironic part though is the same group that thinks Wright was useless all September those years still seem to think Reyes was keeping them afloat.
Actually the interesting thing is Wright was hitting 3rd with Beltran, Delgado and Alou behind him.
It’s a meaningless game in the scheme of the NY Mets and MLB, but it’s far from a meaningless game to the men playing, the pride they have wearing their countries name on their chest and to the countryman watching these men play.
Each year it seems to get bigger and bigger, so it will being less and less meaningless very soon, to many more.
You hate chest pumping when it comes to showing pride the fans have with Wright, you take p ride in showing your opinion which differs, and that is crystal clear and will not change, so not sure, why you have to post 3 and 4 times on a thread repeating the same thing over and over.
You are NOT going to change the people that appreciate Wright, as we will not change your irrational hate toward the guy, so the need to say the same thing over and over again each time his name is in print, save yourself the anguish and just move it along.
Have a nice day.
Agree, Kay.
And if Selig has his way these games will become more relevant. Saw something a couple of days where he made a comment about it’s his dream to see a true international WS someday.
Don’t think he’ll see it during his tenure though. Not sure how I feel about that but I’m thinking it’s still a good ways off anyway.
Well said Kay. Its almost like these “fans” want David Wright to fail so they can blog about it. When he does well they call it a fluke. When he does poorly they call him a failure. News flash – baseball is a game of failure. Some of the best players only come thru 3 out of 10 times. These people have tunnel vision.
we dont want DW to “fail”, we just dont understand all the hoopla over an exhibition game.
But no worries, u’ll blame the wind, the stadium, humidity, climate change, lack of protection and peer pressure when DW does not come through in these situations in the regular season…aka…WHEN IT COUNTS !!!
If you don’t understand the hoopla, then why criticize something you don’t understand?
Keep assuming what people will say, proving the old cliche about assumptions.
Get over it already, “I don’t want him to fail” yeah ok and a bear doesn’t poop in the woods.
Whatever
Captain Wright indeed or says he’s not the captain. This was after the fistfight between Canada and Mexico.
Wright keeps the US alive, Holland killing the US with BP stuff against Canada.
Great, just great
I like the WBC – even though I know some Met fans don’t. Then again, I like the ASG too.
Great to see one of very own Mets coming through in these games. Last night’s was exciting.
Less than half an inning left in this game today. Here’s hoping the USA hangs on.
And even though these games are of no interest to some fans, they certainly are more than just exhibition games to these players. The Canada and Mexico game yesterday comes to mind….
I don’t understand why anyone would have a problem with this post. I just don’t get it.
Whether you follow or even like the WBC or not, it was the fifth most watched sporting event in the world in 2009.
One of our Mets players did something significant for our country’s team.
I would have posted this even if any other Met had done the same thing.
This is not about Wright. It’s about one of our players leading Team USA to victory in an elimination game and doing so on a global stage.
It’s about pride for our team and our country.
Nothing against the post but the WBC should be played after the World Series not in the middle of spring training.
I hate the WBC. Heck, i’m still in spring training mode and watching lots of hoops and find it odd to watch October-style baseball now. Don’t like it one bit. I’ve seen all of about 2 minutes of the WBC this year.
Are you really surprised? Any remotely positive post about Wright generates huge backlash here. If it was about another Met there wouldn’t be the negativity
Because Joe unfortunately there are some on here who like to call themselves Mets fans but instead they take joy even in moments like these to do nothing but spew. It’s sad really. I mean why be a fan of this team if you have that much hatred. Why even bother coming here? It speaks to a deeper psychological problem I think. The desire of always pretending to be ganged upon and then lashing out personally to people, 99.99% of whom they’ll never meet face to face.
It’s a form of bullying. It’s not adding anything to the discussion it’s just an act of spite. It’s not a show of dissent it’s just boorish. And it’s what makes people give Mets fans a bad name. You don’t have to be a sycophant to this team or any of its players or managment. But you also don’t have to be what these “fans” are either. Frauds. Because when the Mets become dominant again, and they will, these “fans” will be the first on line to get their season tickets and their jerseys, screaming at the top of their lungs at how faithful they’ve been all alone. Like I said, frauds.
“I mean why be a fan of this team if you have that much hatred”
And then there is the coin flip….
Why come to a blog if all you want to see is opinions of those you agree with, Don’t want to see any discussion much past:
Poster 1: Mets are GREAT! Best Team in the Majors
Poster 2: Ditto That!
Poster 3: No one can beat them!
Poster 4: Lets Go Mets
If thats all that went on here the traffic would be about as thick as it is in downtown Chernobyl!
It’s the debate that make MMO the place it is….
It’s what draws people to it!
If some can’t cope with hearing a differing opinion and some negative comments about a team no one says is really any good or going to win anything thisyear then STOP complaining about Fans who express that and STOP coming to a blog where Opinions are asked for and allowed to be posted…
Blogs, Internet and Opinion fostering places is not a place to re-enforce your happy thoughts!
We are all FANS yes…And those who don’t like the way the team is currently have just as much LOVE of the team called the Mets and maybe MORE than a bunch of folks who don’t really care this year isn’t going to be the greatest season ever but LOVE everything about it!
Who is the better Parent…The one who says MY KID IS GREAT NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES even when he is robbing banks or the one who calls the kid out for being bad and makes sure he knows he was bad!
The latter STILL Loves the kid….He wants to see them be better than they are!
The other one could care less….
So please stop with all this crap about anyone not liking the team as it currently stands and trying to make them out as NOT FANS!
Cause thats where all the fights that JoeD has been trying to stop start!
And it’s reflected in the Banning Counts which has a majority of the POSITIVE SANDY side in the lead on who starts and deserves a ban more!
JUST STOP EVERYONE!
Oh come on Metsie, YOU know and I know, that’s not what it’s about here.
You’re around enough and long enough to know that there is a huge difference between being critical of moves the organization makes, coaches actions or in action, players ability or inabilities. PLENTY to discuss and debate.
However, the constant repeated Wright bash is not about debate, its about the daily berate of the hate parade, irrational hate for a guy that is the best positional player on the team YOU root for, and one in the top echelon of all of baseball as determined by PROFESSIONALS ON THE FIELD, yet the same group comes out of the wood work like termites to profess their hate.
Kay maybe whenn Wright first arrived on the scene we all that is all thought DW was the second coming of Joe DiMaggio. We all expected him to be a sure HOFer. We was in his youth (yes now are his supposed prime years) a short powerful stroke of .330 and 30 homers plus about 115 RBI’s. Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio? Answer WBC
I recall Wright was highly touted but I fail to remember any comparisons to Joe Dimaggio.
You are correct in maybe it was just me in my mind making that comparison.. However a good looking right handed slugger with the numbers he had let most of us think he was a sure HOFer. His sin was he is only good and to some of us here it is not good enough based on the start of his career. As I said even HOFer Mike Schmidt was booed.
(to Both)
It’s not about what they thought Wright was going to be it’s all about what he has been since 2009 to now when compared to 2005-2008
And the bottomline truth here is ALL of this Wright stuff is more about REYES than Wright!
We made a decision in 2011 and chose between the two….
Wright had 14 HRs that year and hit .254…
Reyes won a batting title, first one in Mets History!
Yet Reyes was (to many fans) not worth keeping and Wright was the FACE of the franchise….
There are many who resent that and I suspect many are Latino which is why we are talking racism in the same conversations as Wright!
Whatever the reasons…..They have every right to say it! They have every right to be wrong or right in the end as well!
We shouldn’t be calling people who come to a Mets site everyday a fraud or not a Met fan!
Just as we know all this love for Sandy isn’t about debate it’s about self therapy to make yourself feel better about what everyone knows is going to be a pretty hard to watch season….
Hatred is not exclusive to the guys who don’t like Wright….
I remember the day a Batting Champion was practically put before a firing squad for leaving after a bunt base hit in the last game he would ever play BY THE SAME HATERS who didn’t want him resigned because he wanted too much…that too much was LESS than Wright got!
I have defended Wright as much as anyone here and do not agree with thier assesmment of him….
But never once did I stoop the to Kindergarten approach of “Your Not a Fan!”
If we want to play the game of who is the bigger fan lets all get together at some bar and lay our purchased tickets on the table….
The one with the most tickets will be the only one who can question who is the better/worst fan from then on!
I bet the HAPPY people are the ones who have the least number of tickets purchased…
Why else would they be so happy that thier team isn’t in the picture this year before the season has even started?
“And it’s what makes people give Mets fans a bad name.”
Hey Joe Palooka your are looking for a fight. You have some nerve implying we (all fans) except you and those who share your opinion “give Met fans a bad name”. I have had lengthy dialogue with several other bloggers where we disagreed but learned to respect each other and to some extent concede that the other may have merit in their opposing point enough to maybe change ones opinion. That is what is good about this blog.
Just remember Philly fans beside booing Santa Clause booed HOF Mike Schmidt. You should be a Yankee fan because you are immature like a lot of them. Immature because you do not respect honest dialogue and you have to accuse someone you think; and wrongly so, that you are better than.
The only reply I will accept is an apology. Metsie you had a great reply to Joe Spector.
Metsie -
Its more about those “fans” who have hatred for certain players that I find idiotic. Answer me this: We’re all a family yes? Different opinions and the like right? So lets say your brother has a different opinion than you on anything, whatever, does that mean you now hate him?
Certain players are hated, vilified, not because of their performance on the field but because they’re “Sandys” guy or their “unclutch”; nevermind if the rest of MLB sees it differently—thats where the hate comes in. Its not enough to disagree, then its about denigrating someone personally just to get a point accross.
Thats intellectually bankrupt. Like a player dislike a player for whatever reason but to hate on players OF THE TEAM YOU ROOT FOR is moronic pure and simple. I couldnt stand Oliver Perez but each time he went out there I like many of us pulled for him. I can’t think of one Met that I or many of us here have wished failure on.
THAT is a fraud of a fan.
But Joe….
Was it a Fraud when Oliver Perez, John Maine and Castillo were the HATED players?
They were hated by EVERYONE and got trashed on a daily basis…
Were those fans frauds too?
So some fans don’t like Wright….SO WHAT?
Is thier not thinking Wright is not worth his contract any worse than it is when someone says Bourn who could have made this year’s team a player wasn’t worth the money he wanted?
Why because he wasn’t a met yet? How about when it was Reyes who wasn’t worth the money? How about all those guys who said Reyes wanted too much…Were they frauds as well? Cause if we go by your standard the ENTIRE SITE would have NO met fans at all, we would ALL be frauds considering things said about Met players at one time or another.
Really any discussion that contains the phrase NOT A FAN or questions someone’s loyalty to the team over a stated position is just as bad and maybe WORSE than the guy who does what many others do all the time only he does it without a Majority of Congress to pat him on the back for saying it….
And in three-five years he will be in the Majority and people will say Wright isn’t worth the money he gets and we will ALL be FRAUDs if we subscribe to the definition you are trying to set here….
Lets just start off on the premise that IF YOUR HERE….YOUR A FAN!
And what you say can be agreed with or disagreed with but they have a right to say it without thier loyalty and fandom to the team being questioned.
Cause if we continue to make this about who is the better fan we might as well all drop our zippers and ask who is bigger as well….It’s about as useful as a discussion over who Daddy loves more….
Metsie,
There is a problem with your argument with those other guys….they were terrible for the Mets. Comparing Ollie, Maine, and Castillo to Wright is totally off base. Wright is still performing at a high level for the Mets even if his numbers are diminished from the middle part of the decade.
A better observation is the attacks on Beltran. And yes, I would say then you have at least a bunch of hypocrisy within some of the views of Mets fans. Beltran performed well over the course of his Mets career. Sadly injuries derailed him and made that contract an overpay (which is usually the case with 6+ year contract…Wright will fall into that too most likely). Beltran, too, was the Mets best player, attacked for being unclutch (strike 3 looking) and the contract that he signed. So the similarities are there and it is hypocritical to attack either player based upon a small scope of their entire work. Also, when they were on the field, both performed well. So to attack has some kind of built in bias.
I think that’s very fair. The constant hate of Wright could be compared to that of Beltran. I think with the new contract though that hate will surpass anything said of Beltran.
I get what your saying and yes Beltran is good example…But I think back to Reyes’ last game as a met and the hate spewed at him for leaving the game early.
He won the damn batting title (something Wright has never done) but it didn’t matter….
I picked names EVERYONE has said something bad about just to make the point….
It’s every fan’s god given right to bitch about the players on his team….
They may be wrong or right but it’s also thier right to be that too….
I just see no reason why anyone is called a fraud fan for stating how they feel about a player/Team/Moves
People have been bitching asbout thier own team for a century now….
Dodgers used to be called “DemBums” for always losing at the end to the Yankees and Giants.
Trashing the Mets was the fashion of the day from 1962-1968…
If we are upset about a team it’s only because we CARE about what happens!
So we should just avoid trying to OUTFAN the next guy around here, make our cases one way or the other and let the facts carry the day….
Thats the only reason I responded to JoeS the way I did and Let me be clear (NOTE TO JoeS) I only decided to post it in reply to him because I actually happen to respect him and know the response from him would be adultlike and much different than if I said it to some of the others who have done the same thing….
This Your Not a Fan crap simply has to stop!
Because it comes from the same mentality that gets people banned! It’s meant to start a fight!
Which would explain why More of the POSITIVE/SANDY side has been banned since sudden death started than the other side…They (not all mind you) ALWAYS started the fights JoeD was having an issue with….And now he sees I was right all along about WHO usually starts them and all those he expected to be banned merely finished what other’s started…
I will never understand the venom that some people — thankfully a teeny tiny minority — have for Wright. He is the best position player EVER developed by the Mets, a perennial All-Star, the best position player to have played on the Mets since he broke in, someone who represents his team and his country very well, one who gives back to the community, and someone who never embarrasses himself or the team by saying something offensive, disrespectful or rude. If you had to draw up the ideal franchise player checking off from a list of positive characteristics, you’d come up with — David Wright!
As for this continued nonsense about his clutchness, he is roughly average when it comes to that. Perhaps he is not as clutch as someone like Jeter but he is way more clutch than some habitual well-known chokers like A-Rod and Cano. And he’s way more talented and productive than Jeter. So there’s that.
It’s been great to see him do well this past weekend in the WBC. He makes Mets fans proud!
Sigh………… How old are you???????????????????????????????????? I think everyone is entitle to have their own opinion, you got yours, good for you, you think he’s the best position player the mets ever had? good for you, i am sure you probably never watch strawberry or hell, jose reyes, with that being said, just like you think is venom if one criticizes wright for his shortcomings, is it fair to say you love the guy to no end when one read something like this? the disrespect you show jeter, arod and cano by somehow comparing the guy to them is worthy of being ban from here for your lack of baseball knowledge, but hey, as long as he’s a met we should all love the guy right? It’s downright pathetic to compare him to jeter, arod or even say he’s the caliber of player Robinson Cano is… You guys are just hilarious…
To shut you or any other DW fan here’s something i came up with:
Robinson cano since 2009:
314 BA 30 HR 102 RBI 197 HITS 46 DOUBLES 104 RUNS 900 OPS
Top 6 MVP in 3 straight years, 3 times SS in a row, 2 Gold Gloves , 3 SS.
The disrespect of some people in here is just insane.
You could certainly make a case that Straw is still currently ahead of Wright. I personally think Wright’s career will be better and that’s after watching Straw but because of the WS I will consider it a push or slightly in Straw’s favor. Reyes is slightly behind as is Alfonzo goes down quickly from there.
How old are you Alex????????????????
I watched Strawberry play, and Wright is a better overall player than Strawberry. And he has been a far better player than Reyes. To even suggest that Reyes is better than Wright is laughable.
A-Rod is a PEDs enhanced cheating fraud. Jeter is a clutch player but with skills and production inferior to Wright. Cano is a stats compiler who plays in a bandbox. And both A-Rod and Cano are two of the most high-profile unclutch chokers to have ever played in NY!
To shut you or anyone else who refuses to look at facts:
Career OPS+
Wright 135
Cano 123
Career Clutch
Wright 0.2
Cano -6.0
Career OPS Late & Close
Wright .829
Cano .811
The late and close isn’t even park adjusted. If you park adjusted it, the advantage Wright has over Cano would be even bigger.
The disrespect some here have for Wright is just illogical and inane.
Metro, please understand that when counting Wright’s career stats you can only count from 2009-2012, the other years didn’t exist.
Oh and let me also say that the first halves of 2010 and 2012 don’t count either.
LOL, it’s amazing the cherry picking that goes on when it comes to Wright. SMH
Well, ok, i’ll give you 10 minutes to come up with both career wise, if you want, i’ll give you wright’s 4 best years against cano’s 4 best years… Again, it’s funny how you guys disrespect the best players in baseball to compare this choker… it’s amazing..
Cano and A-Rod are two of the biggest chokers who ever played in NY. They make Wright look like Mr. Clutch! Those are facts.
LMAO!!!!!!!!!! ohhh boy, kids these days….. Moving on kid, learn about baseball before engaging here. it’s my fault really for not realizing you were 12 years old. I get it, Love wright, hate the yankees and their players, even though 2 of them are HOF, one is on his way there and the best 2B in the game. Got it, wright’s better…
I am guessing you mean Jeter and Arod? I will give you one but I am not sure Arod will make it in for a long time. Cano still has a long way to go before being HOF.
A-Rod will never get into the HOF. Too many PEDs. It puts a large part of his production into question.
Cano likely will never get in either. He is a huge choker and a stats compiler who plays in stacked lineups in a hitters park. It’s questionable how much longevity he will have as well. It will be interesting to see what he does this year given he won’t have as much protection in the lineup as he’s used to.
While Jeter will get into the HOF, he has Mariano Rivera to thank for that. If it wasn’t for Rivera and the titles which Rivera is most responsible for, Jeter would likely be on the bubble at best.
I am not sure I even agree on the clutch part with Cano but lets take a look what he most likely would have to net.
At least 1600 more hits.
At least 200 more HR.
Continue to keep career .308 BA over .300 even in his twilight years.
The MVP, AS and SS things help too.
Long way to go.
“Jeter would likely be on the bubble at best.”
LMAO
Dude, did u just said Jeter would be a ‘bubble” candidate for the HOF?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/10/sports/baseball/jeter-reaches-3000-hits-with-home-run.html?_r=0
the only bubble that exists is the one where Wright STANS live in.
Jeter is a no doubt HOF. Even if he did most of his damage during the roid era.
I should have said without Rivera and the rest of the Yankees, Jeter would be on the bubble. Jeter has always played in strong lineups on strong teams which pumped up his stats.
Put him on an average team or small market team, and he wouldn’t have had the career he’s had.
“Jeter would likely be on the bubble at best.”
Arguably, Arguably the most ASININE comment that has ever being made in MMO… Seriously damaja, that’s your CUE to end the conversation with that guy…. It’s one thing to hate the yankees, but come on…….
Metro to me that’s not fair to Jeter. He can’t help who is on his team. I don’t like that argument anymore than the Wright had Delgado and Beltran in his.
Metro12
On the Bubble?
with over 3,000 hits???
LMAO
ok
I am not sure 3,000 hits automatically does it any more but Jeter gets the nod because of position and championships.
TRS, Wright has only hit in real strong lineups for maybe 2-3 years out of his entire career. That’s a small portion of his career.
Jeter has hit in strong All-Star lineups almost every single year of his career. That’s a huge advantage. HUGE.
Of course Jeter can’t help it that he was drafted by the Yankees. But looking at his career from the outside, objectively, it’s hard not to consider that when assessing his overall value and production.
but Jeter gets the nod because of position and championships
TRS, hit the reply button before I finished. But that’s what bothers me about Jeter’s overhyped legacy. If not for Mariano Rivera and the PEDs that so many of his teammates were on, I don’t think Jeter has more than 1 ring to his credit. The same number as Rollins.
Metro, sorry but I don’t consider that fair at all. I don’t like all this crap about who was in the lineup. Does that mean that we shouldn’t look at Lou Gehrig or Yogi Berra or Keith Hernandez the same way?
See my reply. To me that’s a dangerous slope that I want no part of.
If another player like Keith hit in power lineups his whole career, then that should certainly be a consideration for anyone passing judgment on him.
Sorry, but I think the strength of the lineup players hit in has a huge impact on one’s numbers.
Gotta move on from this one, while I am sure it helps their overall numbers it doesn’t change them.
The only bubble Jeter might be on is his picks for the NCAA tourney. For the HOF, that is a sure thing.
TRS, of course you can’t change what already is. But one can certainly let it factor into judgments.
It is no coincidence that almost every year, Jeter’s own peers, in an anonymous poll, rate him as the most overrated player in baseball. And he isn’t tainted by PEDs.
That’s not fair either, again there’s a lot of bias voting there. Metro, as a Yankee hater, I still have to give Jeter his due. He’s a first ballot guy and counting post season hits has 3500+ hits. That’s a ton of hits and that’s not always due to who was hitting behind or in-front of him.
TRS, his peers voted anonymously. So you think they are all just Yankee haters? Every year Jeter comes out on top of that poll. They see the hype and know the player and they think the two don’t add up.
Of course getting a hit doesn’t always count on who is hitting in front or behind you. But to say it doesn’t play a huge role — especially in the AL where the pitcher doesn’t hit — is illogical.
Jeter also has an incredible number of ABs due to the frequent turnover of the Yankee lineups during games (high OBP).
Metro best I remember a lot of NY guys were on that list.
I think A-Rod was second. But then he’s been tainted by PEDs so you can understand why many might say he is vastly overrated. But Jeter hasn’t been tainted by PEDs. So many think he’s overrated by his talent/production levels alone!
That’s fine. We can agree to disagree. But just consider this — You don’t even have to imagine swapping players with teams — Biggio has almost the same stats that Jeter has — yet he played in considerably lesser lineups for the bulk of his career, and is considered by many to not even be HOF worthy. The way Biggio and Jeter are treated is night and day. Jeter gets extra credit for the WS titles but those were heavily influenced by Rivera, PEDs and money. This disparity underscores just how much Jeter is overrated.
Metro, lets be fair though about Jeter. You can probably say that (his team helped) about many hall of famers.
You can’t create scenarios that didn’t happen when deciding on a players career.
“While Jeter will get into the HOF, he has Mariano Rivera to thank for that. If it wasn’t for Rivera and the titles which Rivera is most responsible for, Jeter would likely be on the bubble at best.”
Mariano Rivera never got a base hit for Derek Jeter. If Jeter’s team never won a World Series, would Jeter still have 3,000 hits?
Jeter’s greatness existed – you can’t take that away I’m sorry
jessep –
Metro, lets be fair though about Jeter. You can probably say that (his team helped) about many hall of famers.
To the same extent that Jeter’s had? Jeter was lucky to have played in powerful productive lineups virtually every single year of his career. That is very rare.
You can’t create scenarios that didn’t happen when deciding on a players career.
As a fan, I can take that into consideration when judging someone else’s career. If I had a vote for the HOF or MVP, I would take that into consideration. It may not be the overall deciding factor, but I would try to put the player’s production into context (including the park they played in).
If you had two players last year with identical MVP-worthy stats, and one played on the 2012 Yankees and the other played on the 2012 Red Sox, which player do you think deserves more credit? I would give the Red Sox player the edge here.
Mariano Rivera never got a base hit for Derek Jeter. If Jeter’s team never won a World Series, would Jeter still have 3,000 hits?
I think Rivera was the big difference maker for those Yankee teams. Without Jeter, those teams still win most of those titles. Without Rivera? Maybe just 1. I also said later that it wasn’t just Rivera Jeter had to thank, but the rest of his Yankee teammates (ie, strong lineups).
When many think of Jeter as “great” they think of those WS titles. But, sorry, I just don’t think he was nearly as significant to those titles as Rivera was.
Metro, I am pretty sure those post season stats don’t count on all time numbers.
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/derek-jeter-passes-3000-hits-for-the-second-time/
TRS, yes, they don’t count toward his career stats. I think jessep was just making a point that Jeter would still have 3000 hits regardless of the WS titles. And I was replying that without the WS titles, Jeter’s rep wouldn’t be the same — it would be closer to Biggio’s than it is to what he is today!
Biggio is an interesting player. He has nearly identical stats to Jeter’s. Yet one is a legend and the other is on the bubble.
If Biggio had spent his entire career on the Yankees and Jeter on the Astros, it would be Biggio who many considered a first ballot HOFer (and overrated) and Jeter would be on the bubble.
Metro, again that’s so hard to say and kinda pointless at best and slippery at worst. So I will move on.
TRS, that’s fine. We can agree to disagree. But just consider this — You don’t even have to imagine swapping players with teams — Biggio has almost the same stats that Jeter has — yet he played in considerably lesser lineups for the bulk of his career, and is considered by many to not even be HOF worthy. The way Biggio and Jeter are treated is night and day. Jeter gets extra credit for the WS titles but those were heavily influenced by Rivera, PEDs and money. This disparity underscores just how much Jeter is overrated.
Jeter and Rivera are first ballot HOF and deservedly so. Their body of work over the years is unquestioned. The stats dont lie. To try and deny that because of the team they played on is misleading. One of the reasons the Yankees were so good is because of those two.
Task, metro is a yankee hating kid who knows nothing about baseball…. Look, the way i grew up was, you love the team you root for but appreciate, respect and learn the game of baseball. i can name many teams i hated throughout all my years, from the reds, cards, dodgers, pirates, braves, phillies at no point i disrespected their great players like metro is doing, and it’s very sad to see. i know he’s alone in that regard though.
Alex, while I agree that Metro is most likely biased against the Yankees because they are Yankees, that’s better than being biased against a Met
However, I am always confused. Why is it that age always plays a factor in debate? Are you opinions now more valid than they were 7 years ago when we were arguing on Metsblog or where they pointless because you were just a kid then?
Alex, while I agree that Metro is most likely biased against the Yankees because they are Yankees, that’s better than being biased against a Met
LOLOL!
Alex that is blatant disrespect for Metro. He is probably almost the same age as you maybe slightly younger. Would you ever say that stuff to him in person? I doubt it. Get over yourself.
Metro, in 1996 when Jeter .414 in the AL playoffs – what did Mariano do?
Sorry you’re ridiculously off base here. To try and argue a closer is more responsible for the Yankees success than a hitter who plays 9 innings is so out of touch.
Let me ask you this. In most circumstances, when Mariano comes into a game – doesn’t the team already have a lead? How’d they do that? What did Mariano have to do with that? Nothing.
I respect the heck out of Mariano and he is the greatest ever to do what he does. But his job for the most part was to shut the door. He doesn’t have a job unless the team gets him a lead first.
You’re trying to invent ways to discredit Jeter’s career. You can do that with anybody. Maris doesn’t get the HR record without being in a lineup with Mantle. So there goes his career moment.
You can’t change history just to come up with situations. The truth is you have absolutely no idea how Jeter would play in a Pirates uniform because it didn’t happen. So why even try to talk about it?
They are both great, they both have totally different jobs.
I will say with 100% certainty that if Mariano was on the KC Royals and Jeter was on the Pirates, Jeter’s impact would be greater because you can’t close a game if you’re losing the game. A closer’s job relies on the starters and the lineup. A hitter’s job relies on his own skill first.
jessep –
Metro, in 1996 when Jeter .414 in the AL playoffs – what did Mariano do?
That’s why I said without Rivera, the Yankees still have 1 WS title.
To try and argue a closer is more responsible for the Yankees success than a hitter who plays 9 innings is so out of touch.
Yes, that’s what I am arguing. Or more precisely, Rivera was the big difference maker on the successful Yankee teams. Jeter was just 1 of 9 hitters. Most teams in the WS had various hitters like Jeter. But there is only 1 closer on a team. And Rivera was head and shoulders above all his contemporaries.
Put another way, I think that if you had exchanged Benitez with Rivera in 2000, the Mets would have had an excellent chance to win that WS — despite the fact a significant portion of the Yankees team was on PEDs. But exchange Jeter for any of the Mets hitters, and the Yankees still win.
But his job for the most part was to shut the door. He doesn’t have a job unless the team gets him a lead first.
Most teams can get a lead late in a game. The trick is to protect that lead. Rivera did that more successfully than any other postseason closer. Most teams did not have Rivera. Most teams had a Rivera for maybe one year at most, but those same closers would fail in later postseasons.
Maris doesn’t get the HR record without being in a lineup with Mantle.
Was that entire Yankee lineup stacked? Was that lineup on steroids too?
You can’t change history just to come up with situations. The truth is you have absolutely no idea how Jeter would play in a Pirates uniform because it didn’t happen. So why even try to talk about it?
I’m not trying to change history. Just trying to put things in proper context. Why bring it up? Because I, like many of Jeter’s own peers, think he is the most overrated player of his generation. Because I see how Biggio is treated as a marginal HOFer while many have elevated Jeter to sainthood. There stats are amazingly similar, with the exception of the WS titles.
I will say with 100% certainty that if Mariano was on the KC Royals and Jeter was on the Pirates, Jeter’s impact would be greater because you can’t close a game if you’re losing the game.
Then we will have to agree to disagree. It would be hard to say either way which team succeeds and which doesn’t without knowing the rotation and the rest of the bulpens and lineups. But if BOTH teams were exactly identical with the exception of the SS and closer — with the Pirates having a replacement level closer and the Royals having a replacement level SS — then I give the edge to the Royals.
A closer’s job relies on the starters and the lineup. A hitter’s job relies on his own skill first.
Huh? I don’t believe you really meant to say that. Both a closer and a hitter need to rely on their own skills in order to perform. Pressure and the level of the competition can impact that performance, but at the core of a performance is a player’s own skills.
If we want to count team accomplishment in the way he is trying to do here then you could also Say Wright was helped by Delgado and Beltran all those years before 2008 and once they were gone the performance left from 2009 on….
I don’t agree with the guys who don’t like Wright because I’m less inclined to compare him to his best years and more inclined to compare him to the rest of the league and in that sense he is still a pretty damn good hitter and fielder….
Sorry Metro, we usually see eye to eye but to try and tell me a guy who usually only appears when his team already has a lead is more valuable than a guy who played in the 8 innings prior just doesn’t jive with me
Further, telling me the Mets win the 00 WS if Mo and Armando do not mix. You are living in a make believe world here.
You think Jeter at SS wouldn’t have won the Mets more games than Bordick?
Two out of the 4 games the Mets lost, Mo’s impact for the Mets would be nothing.
You’re arguing a guy who’s job it is to get 3 outs is more valuable than a guy who is on the field for 27 of them and hits.
They were a great team, take Jeter off the Yankees in that World Series and what happens? You’ll never know because it didn’t happen. You can’t live life pretending to know what will happen if you change history
jessep –
but to try and tell me a guy who usually only appears when his team already has a lead is more valuable than a guy who played in the 8 innings prior just doesn’t jive with me
Is that always the case? No. But I am saying that is the case with Rivera, Jeter and those Yankee teams, which already had good lineups without Jeter. Take Jeter away and you still had Martinez, Williams and O’Neill. Take Rivera away and you had ????
Further, telling me the Mets win the 00 WS if Mo and Armando do not mix. You are living in a make believe world here.
You think Jeter at SS wouldn’t have won the Mets more games than Bordick?
I said the Mets would have had an excellent chance to win that WS if you exchanged Rivera with Benitez. Jeter at SS wouldn’t have had a bigger impact than Rivera at closer. Jeter at SS alone wouldn’t have been enough to turn the tide for the 2000 Mets. But I think Rivera as closer might have had a big enough impact to put the Mets ahead in that series. Or at least give them an equal chance.
Let’s look at it game by game:
Game 1 — Bentinez blows a save in the 9th and Rivera has 2 shutout innings. Jeter did nothing special in that game. I think it’s safe to say that if the Mets had Rivera, and the Yankees had Benitez, the Mets are up 1-0 in the series.
Game 2 — This was the Clemens roid rage game. I don’t think a switch of players would have changed things much. Yankees win. Series tied 1-1.
Game 3 — Benitez saves the game for the Mets. Rivera would have done the same. Mets lead series 2-1.
Game 4 — Rivera protects a 1-run lead for the Yankees. Benitez maybe blows the game. Outcome uncertain. But Mets could be leading series 3-1 by now.
Game 5 — Rivera protects a 2-run lead in the 9th. Does anyone really think Benitez would have done that? Also, if BV knew he had Rivera to go to instead of Benitez, maybe he relieves Leiter earlier before the final damage was done. So perhaps the Mets go on to win this game OR at worst are now up by 3-2 in the series.
The fact is, most of the games in the 2000 WS were decided in the later innings, where Benitez and Rivera had the most impact. I can easily see where the Mets win that WS if they had Rivera and the Yankees had Benitez.
Jeter’s contributions to the 2000 series were minimal. I can’t see the Mets winning if Jeter were simply exchanged for Abbott.
Two out of the 4 games the Mets lost, Mo’s impact for the Mets would be nothing.
Again, I only see the 2nd game as Rivera having no impact. All the other games he might have turned the tide for the Mets. Even if you want to say just 2 of 4 games, that could have put the Mets in the lead 3 games to 2.
You’re arguing a guy who’s job it is to get 3 outs is more valuable than a guy who is on the field for 27 of them and hits.
Yes. In that postseason series he was. Especially considering Jeter’s contributions to that series were minimal, his defense has never been an asset (postseason or regular season!) and the rest of the Yankees lineup was stacked.
They were a great team, take Jeter off the Yankees in that World Series and what happens? You’ll never know because it didn’t happen. You can’t live life pretending to know what will happen if you change history
Of course we’ll never know. But I believe if they took Jeter off that team the Yankees STILL win the WS. Jeter was not a key factor in that series. Rivera and the juiced up Clemens and Neagle were bigger factors. But take Rivera off that 2000 Yankees team and put in Benitez, in his place and the Mets have a great chance to win that series.
LMAO … I get it. Once again, Alex resorts to insults when he is losing on the facts. Things never change around here!
facts like Derek Jeter being a “bubble” candidate for the HOF ?
LMAO
ok Metro12
He just did.
.311 .394 .534 .928 for Wright in his best 4 years.
Cano’s only posted one season of an OPS higher than Wright’s 4 year average at .929.
But lets go ahead and compare Cano’s last 4 years.
.314 .365 .534 .899
Wright had an OPS over .900 4 times in 9 years, Cano 2 times in 8.
How is it you put it? Sigh…
Hahaha, nice going TRS! And those numbers aren’t even park adjusted. If you adjusted them for that, Wright’s edge would be even bigger.
2008 was so looooooooooooooooooooooooong ago…. You guys keep brining those years, is sad. Right now, Right now, to finish any debate about this
Robinson Jose Cano >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Wright.
Where are your facts Alex?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not a fact. It’s just you thinking the arrow key is cool to use. It’s not.
And, LOL, you are the one who said to use any 4 years. Then when TRS does, you break out the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
LMAO!
Cano’s late and close OPS in the past 4 years
2009 – .921
2010 – .950
2011 – .825
2012 – .838
More cherry picking. You pick out his late and close OPS from the 4 years he’s played in Coors Field East.
Meanwhile his clutch stats for the last 4 years:
2009 -2.4
2010 0.5
2011 0.4
2012 -1.5
That’s -0.3 total for the last 4 years.
And we all saw how pathetic Cano has been in the postseason. He’s like Swisher in that regard, only more talented.
Metro, I see that you are using a “clutch” stat. Where does that number come from and what goes into calculating it? I for one like High leverage because I do believe that clutch can come earlier than just the 7th inning.
TRS, there is no single “clutch” stat that is ideal so I like using a variety of ones, including Late & Close, High Leverage, and the actual Clutch stat, which is found at Baseball Reference. I also really like looking at tOPS for situational stats as I think it’s equally as important as plain OPS. I have refrained from using tOPS here because I know some have a limited capacity for understanding advanced or esoteric stats.
To get the Clutch stat, go to a player’s page at BR. Next to “Standard Batting” there is a blue tab that says “More Stats.” Click on the blue tab and the Clutch stat is under “Win Probability.” In a nutshell, the clutch stat looks at how much win probability the player added to the game for each at bat. Each at bat is therefore graded according to context — with a hit coming in the first inning with the team ahead having a lot less value than a hit in the ninth inning with the game tied, for example.
Here is the page that shows Wright’s clutch stat:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wrighda03-bat.shtml
So really the “clutch stat” and “high leverage” are almost the same. It’s just high leverage puts it in a more usable form.
TRS, the Clutch stat is more comprehensive than simply using High Leverage. It also compares the player to how his peers do in the SAME situation which High Leverage doesn’t. High Leverage also isn’t park adjusted. The Clutch stat is. Again, no stat is ideal to measure clutchness. Each has its pros and cons. But I can see where High Leverage may be more understandable to some since one can see it measured in a traditional OPS.
Yeah, to me the clutch stat wouldn’t be as good unless I had some way to normalize it and then easily compare it to other players. I am assuming that 0 is average?
Yes. 0 is average. It’s somewhat like WAR in this regard.
Again, for his position compare to what a 3rd baseman is, CANO’s numbers are way more impressive than wright’s. why you ask? Because no other 2nd baseman aside from maybe utley and phillips put up those kinda numbers, meanwhile, in 3rd baseman, the competition for the crown as the best 3rd baseman is the game has belong to Arod, Beltre and now Cabrera. at no point, at no point Wright was consider the best at his position, go and check who’s the best 2B in the game RIGHT NOW and has been since 2009…. Thanks for commenting >
Flawed logic Alex.
That is like saying that the best middle reliever in the game is better than a Clayton Kershaw because Kershaw isnt the best SP in baseball.
Keep moving the target Alex.
Cano last 4 years (his best) .314 .365 .534 .899
Wright last 4 years (obviously not his best): .290 .372 .471 .843
Even that is close.
Oh and by the way, when you look at BR’s most similar player through age 29 for Cano? Who’s #1? David Wright.
yes, when ur previous 4 seasons were better than the seasons before that…logic says you are improving
when ur previous 4 seasons were WORSE than the seasons before that…logic says that you are regressing..
of course this logic applies to everyone except David Allen Wright
Right now, only in the minds of Met fans, David Allen Wright is hands down better than any 3B, 2B, and SS in MLB…and if they are better, they are using PEDS…or in Miguel Cabrera’s case, alcohol
Nope Wright has regressed but 2012 was certainly a rebound year. We will see what happens from there.
See my comments above… BTW, you seem to forget that DW put up those numbers when Beltran, Reyes and Delgado Hell, even piazza were in the lineup. Those team”s were stacked too, so don’t give me the stacked up lineup bullcrap, again, i guess i was wrong at the fact that wright’s 4 best years beat cano’s, but last 4 years, CANO has cemented himself as the best player on the yankees and best 2B in the game, meanwhile in flushing, fans are left dreaming of what once seem to be a great player…
though to be fair even the Yankee fans consider Cano a choking dog at this point. They should know better, since they actually watch the games.
David Wright is the reason why Carlos Delgado and Carlos Beltran were so good.
He also granted Jose Reyes the gift of speed until he was caught staring at Molly, then David pulled his hamstrings to teach him a lesson.
Captain is really a front for David’s true title of demigod.
David can communicate with the baseball gods and summon all their strengths as needed.
Are you sure of that? Again, Alex, ball park is a huge factor. Look at their numbers in 2012 and you will find them similar. Cano hit more HRs which can be attributed to the park differential. Same with 2010. 2011 Wright was hurt so his numbers were down. 2009 you hand to Cano.
And yes Cano is the best 2B in baseball while Wright is maybe 3rd best 3rd baseman in the game. So what? Wright is better than the present 2 Yankee 3rd baseman. What does that have to do with the conversation?
“BTW, you seem to forget that DW put up those numbers when Beltran, Reyes and Delgado Hell, even piazza were in the lineup.”
Because Cano doesn’t play in a T-Ball field surrounded by guys who crush the ball.
Well you know that .251 .326 .452 .778 that Piazza put up in 113 games in 2005 had a huge influence on Wright’s numbers.
can you at least keep the arguement consistant?
if someone shows that DW put up big #s, suddenly they mean nothing (complied?), it is all about the clutch smell test.
But when someone points out that Cano has tended to reek on the clutch smell test, suddenly it is about career #s.
Not sure what the arguement will be now that TRS debunked that. Certainly can’t be putting up #s because of a stacked lineup (cano won’t win their either). How about playing in a LL sized park? Nope, not in his favor either.
ummm…in judging Wright’s overall career…u take into consideration his WHOLE career…
in making a statement that the next four years will look like his first four years…w/o taking into consideration his past four years…that is just fandom.
what u are doing is the old baseball card argument we had as kids when comparing players we liked the most…. He can strike out with the bases loaded for the next 100 years and u will still find some stat that validates your point about being clutch.
what most folks do when looking at wright’s previous 4 years is predict how the next 4 years will go..
by the way, Wright’s OPS in late and close situations for the past 4 seasons…
2012 – .788
2011 – .811
2010 – .694
2009 – .747
the four years before that…
2008 – .876
2007 – 1.037
2006 – .983
2005 – .647
and his rookie year – .965
Wright is no longer the guy from years 1-5…until proven otherwise, he is the guy from years 6-9
the same way Cal Ripken Jr was not the SS he was from age 37 on that he was from age 21-27
this concept applies to all human beings except those named David Allen Wright apparently
Damaja, it’s really sad that his fans go goo goo gaga over the meaningless WBC where he’s having a good go around, good for him and team USA, however, the fact that the guy has been a shadow of himself to what he was from 2005-2008 cannot be brought up here in any conversation, it’s getting real sad to see the post and comments trying to defend the guy.. At this point it is what it is…
its like saying Darryl Strawberry is a better outfielder than Lucas Duda in 2013 because of what he did in 1984
LMAO
actually there is a better chance of THAT happening than David replicating his 2005-2008 years
LMAO
He isn’t as good as he was in 2006-2008. Who is denying that? However, what he was last year was still pretty damn good.
I think it’s clear that Citi Field impacted Wright’s stats negatively. Anyone who won’t admit to that is blind. It’s just like how the new Yankee Stadium inflated the stats of many Yankee players.
Now that Citi Field has been turned into a more neutral park, Wright’s numbers have rebounded.
Yes the stats for DW’s whole career smooth out. But there is a huge standard deviation. If I say one ball player is a career .300 hitter plus or minus .05 points from month to month of his career or another player is a career .300 hitter plus or minus .30 month to month which player would you pick to be on your team. True DW can be a .330 player or a .270 player each month while the other guy is .305 to .295 month to month. Lets say Hrs are even at 25. My point is with David you never know if it is going to be the HOT DW or the ICE COLD DW you getting.
Hank Aaron never hit 50 hrs but consistently (key word) was in the forties. He really holds the career record for homers. Think about that.
But yet Hotstreak when you look at his career averages his month to month and situation to situation all balance out. Has he been a streaky player the last few years though? Hell yeah. But those stats count too.
Willie Mays was streaky. Ted Williams and Stan Musial were consistent. I remember as a kid Roy Campanella was streaky but by odd and even years. I mentioned all HOFers. I think we all would rather have consistency. Sure you can be a consistent out too. All in all, I agree DW is our franchise player with a ton of class but as I keep saying even Mike Schmidt was booed. Maybe we expect too much from him but now he is making 138M.
I love the game of golf. A pro told me the key is what you do after a bad shot. With DW the key is not to let mini slumps extend. Some of it has to be mental. DW is constantly changing his swing therefore it is hard to be consistent. He changes it to get out of a slump. He has to have faith in his 2005/2006 swing and stick with it with only minor tweaking and not radical changes.
I can agree with that. NY is not an easy place to play and when you aren’t winning I am sure it’s hell on your mind. That’s always a danger when the Mets head into FA for big contracts. You never know how the guy will react.
High leverage situations which most would agree are considered more clutch than just some arbitrary late and close. As I put above, is a 2 run HR off of Hudson in the bottom of the 6th not “clutch” but a strike out down 3 with a runner on 1st in the 7th is “unclutch”?
2012: .345 .430 .504 .934
2011: .289 .358 .474 .832
2010: .264 .317 .504 .821
2009: .325 .400 .483 .883
2008: .350 .429 .528 .957
2007: .320 .408 .602 1.010
2006: .331 .403 .610 1.013
2005: .295 .375 .424 .799
If the mets are up/down by 12, is that considered in the high leverage stat ?
or if the mets are 23 games out of first place? does that come into question as well? Nope, less pressure means exactly less pressure..
Individual players don’t have total control over their overall team, but… if we are going to say games where the Mets are way out of the race are unimportant (which ok…I can see them being deemed less important than Sept pennant race games or games earlier in the yr when the team might’ve still been in a race) why are you constantly so caught up in Wright’s second half – pretty much all of which have been games where the Mets were out of the race?
No it isn’t. High leverage is based on the percentage change in the predicted winner of the game. Thus if you are say down 4-0 in the 6th and a guy hits a grand slam it will be heavily weighted. If you are up 3 and the top of the 9th and hit a HR to make it 4-0 it will not be weighted as much.
I am wondering when you guys will come up with an article stating wright’s biggest hits in his lifetime…
A 2006 hit against rivera
….. …..
A walk off in the WBC in 2009 ….
…
….
….
…
.. A grand slam in the WBC in 2013…..
Wow… That’s it??????? Anybody is welcome to jump in, refresh my memory
without having his stats available, I am willing to bet those #s reasonably approximate his overall stats by year?
Pretty close. Once you start looking at Wright and add enough sample size in, he isn’t clutch or unclutch, he’s just Wright. A .300 hitter with a good OBP and some pop.
Why do you keep refering to the guy like that? is he getting paid like a guy who does that only? am i seeeing soemthing wrogn here? you are the defender of objection, yet when it comes to wright, you evaluate things different. there are many guys who make less than the guy who can do the same… Jeez….
Really? Are there? His AAV ranks him 43rd all time, certainly not paid like a superstar. By the way, your buddy Reyes is ahead of him on that list.
TRS – If Reyes signed a 1 year 18 mil contract, his AAV would be ahead of Wright’s…
but his contract would be over 100 mil less…
…real objective now huh
OK if you want to go with total value of his extension, that’s fine.
Reyes:
6 years/$106M (2012-17), plus 2018 option
signed by Miami as a free agent 12/5/11
12:$10M, 13:$10M, 14:$16M, 15:$22M, 16:$22M, 17:$22M, 18:$22M club option ($4M buyout)
Wright:
8 years/$138M (2013-20)
signed extension with NY Mets 12/12, replacing option in previous contract
13:$11M, 14:$20M, 15:$20M, 16:$20M, 17:$20M, 18:$20M, 19:$15M, 20:$12M
Wright to defer $15.5M ($3M in 2013 and $2.5M annually in 2014-18), reducing present-day value at signing to $134,015,678
And Wright’s really was just a 7 year contract as he was already under control for 2012. Take out about 18M of that and you get 7/120 compared to Reyes 6/108. Not much difference is there?
As for what is fair or unfair counting the salary? To me the AAV is much more important that the total amount. The AAV is what affects a team’s salary year to year, not the total amount.
As I said awhile back, Wright’s new contract is a RELATIVE bargain compared to many big contracts today — including A-Roid, Jeter, Braun, Fielder, Pujols, Reyes etc. If you look at AAV relative to WAR, he’s being paid a lot less than many of those other players.
Wiener was absolutely spot on when he said that Wright left money on the table by opting not to go to free agency.
There’s no doubt that he potentially left some money on the table but you also have to factor in the ad money in NY as well as the potential for a down year this year lowering that contract. It was a good deal for both.
Haha you were just crying the other day that its unfair for anyone to ever dare to criticize Santana. Why is it a huge problem for the occasional mild criticism of Santana, but ok to spend virtually every waking moment on this site bashing Wright??
“the disrespect you show jeter, arod and cano by somehow comparing the guy to them is worthy of being ban from here for your lack of baseball knowledge, but hey, as long as he’s a met we should all love the guy right? ”
Now I’ve read everything, worthy of a ban? God forbid a METS fan doesn’t think highly of some guys that play in the Bronx, wow yeah that’s definitely worth a ban. Now THAT is the silliest comment to date.
I will admit that I could care less about the WBC (not a Selig fan in any way and this just epitomizes him to me) and would prefer these players in ST. That being said, I should be (but am not) astounded at the reaction to this article. I believe that some on here would prefer Wright to strike out in that situation just so they could hammer about how much of a choker he is.
The bottom line is Wright is the Mets best player. You can choose to love him or hate him but that doesnt change the fact of where he stands. And yes, since he signed the contract extension, he will be the best homegrown everyday player in Met history (if he isnt already).
Personally I am glad Wright hit the homerun even if it is an exhibition game. What is interesting about the posters on here is the same ones who point out that it is an exhibition game go wild about Valdy getting a big hit in a ST game. Again, the lack of congruence in their views.
I hope Wright has an MVP year and puts up numbers we only dream about. While I am one who thought Alderson should have at least shopped him during the off season, the fact that he is a Met means that I hope he does superbly no matter what the venue.
And one final thought, the argument about the clutch is as stupid as the accusations against Beltran taking strike 3 on the best curveball in baseball. As someone mentioned, even the best players are going to fail 7 out of 10 times no matter what the situation. Of course, the idea of clutch is pretty stupid to begin with because a run in the first inning is as worth as much as a run in the 8th inning. Sure, the later is magnified but they still count the same. It is like the absurd statement that games in September count for more than in April. No they dont. A win counts as one win. They are all important.
“As someone mentioned, even the best players are going to fail 7 out of 10 times no matter what the situation.”
Agreed. Is it really clutch if a .300 hitter comes through in the 9th inning of a game and has a .300 stat in those situations? Or is it just he’s a .300 hitter?
I will take a player who goes 1 for 3 every game with 1 RBI even if they all occur in the first inning. Who wouldnt want a player hitting .333 with 162 RBIs?
I can name a few.
The disrespect continues…. SMH… People, david wright is not better than Robinson Cano right now, can we stop living in the past already? you guys are so hypocritical is downright embarrassing, whenever we bring up the strikeout in 2008 you all tell us to forget about it, it was a long time ago yadayada… yet whenever someone says he’s not as good now you bring up his magical run from 2005-2008, what gives? are we not allowed to bring up the past against him yet it’s ok for you guys to use it to make captain america look good? Pathetic and embarrasing…
Move the target again so we can embarrass you again.
Please…Your whole life has been devoted to this guy, you’re the biggest defender of his i get it, like i said, it is disrespectful to compare david wright with arguably a top 5 player in baseball RIGHT NOW. something wright will never be again, and btw, in 2007, i had this guy pegged to be the MVP when the mets were in playoffs contention. Seem an eternity ago doesn’t it?
OK buddy. I believe your inability to prove your beliefs basically shut down a website long ago so we will move on. At least until you have some type of proof on a target you don’t move. Before long the insults will just start coming when you get frustrated and that’s no good for anyone.
?? What ?? Moving on… Buddy… BTW, team neaderland beat cuba this morning… When it’s a one game thing in this WBC anything can happen.
Oh I agree. I actually got into some of the games this weekend. I guess because the US backs were against the wall.
I watched several of the games this weekend, including the Canada/Mexico one with the brawl and the 2 USA games.
I know some have no use for the WBC but I’m really enjoying it this year.
Yeah a lot of close games. Even that Canada Mexico game was good until Mexico lost their cool. LOL, throw at a guy 3 times including the last one after the warning?
[...] performance on Sunday helped the Americans past the pesky Canadians. Some fans have taken to calling him Captain America. That has a nice ring to [...]
Anyone who thinks these are just exhibition games not played at a high level of intensity and competition has not been watching them.
All these guys are in it to win it. And not just the USA team either.
From what I’ve seen, many of these games have rivaled post season games.
It’s a plus that Wright has done well so far in the first 3 games – especially since he’s the only ML represented from the Mets in the WBC.
I don’t understand how people who say they love baseball are not watching the WBC? This is more intense than any regular season game and almost every matchup is a do or die game. This is no exhibition to the players who are as intense as I’ve ever seen them, fighting , scratching, and clawing for every run and every win. This is MLB squared.
I’m really enjoying these games.
Heard one of the booths talking about the WBC saying there’s a difference between this year’s competition and the past two WBC’s. Think I have to agree with that. These games are a lot more exciting to me then the past two tournaments. Not sure why that is though.
SRT, we might see USA vs RD, that’ll be interesting…………
What team is RD? I’m confused….
From what I read, most writers think the USA is at a disadvantage for going deep into this tournament b/c of their pitching. They just couldn’t attract many of the top USA pitchers, for various reasons.
But not all other teams have top pitching either. Not when you’re starting a game with Nelson Figueroa.
RD, Republica Dominicana…
Ah…you’ll have to excuse me. I only know it as DR.
No need to apologize SRT, i should’ve stated the american way… with that being said, i think they’re on a collision course to meet, i think this year it’s inevitable that they meet. it’ll be fun and exciting to watch imho.
For me, I have 2 reasons for not being into WBC this year
1 – Timing. I never seem to be around or ready to sit and watch a game in full. They are either on too late, too early or while I’m at work.
2 – the noise. I tried to watch a few of the late night games and the noise from the crowds started to get real annoying. I know that’s petty and I love the atmosphere and enthusiasm, but the sound just doesn’t translate well on TV – especially when you’re trying to watch it on a low volume due to potentially sleeping family members
Obviously reason #1 is most valid.
Ya, tell Canada and Mexico the WBC doesn’t mean anything.
Lmao, saw this this morning i had a over/under 1 hour for an article to be posted. I took the under and won… SMH.
For you… I do this for you…
Thanks Joe D, hearing about David Allen Wright is my favorite part of this blog. Always look forward to MMO’s awesome articles about Captain America
My favorite part about this WBC is how there are some Mets fans who seem unhappy with Wright’s success. Normally, fans would be pleased that their star player is shining on the world stage.
You got it, jessep. There are some Mets fans who would like nothing more than to see Wright fail — if nothing else than to say a meaningless “I told you so” but there are other motives as well. Really, Wright has been the best player the Mets have had in the time he’s been on the team.
And, hey, I know we disagree about Jeter … but here’s the difference between Jeter and Wright. In the game against Italy, with the bases loaded, Jeter maybe gets a double. Wright hits the HR. Also, Wright’s defense has been stellar throughout the series.
Just as there were many fans who would have liked nothing moe than to see Reyes fail to win the batting title and CRUCIFIED him for coming out the last (meaningless) game of the season because it denied them the priviledge of seeing him lose the batting title to a guy who was caught using PEDS!
All because they had an agenda to NOT RE-SIGN him on the offseason!
Nope. That doesn’t apply to me in the slightest.
I’ve always been consistent on Reyes:
1) Wanted him to win the batting title
2) Thought it was STUPID for some to criticize him for taking himself out of the game to protect his batting title lead.
3) Wanted the Mets to resign him.
4) But I never wanted the Mets to overpay for him the way the Marlins did.
So maybe your description applies to some others, but certainly not to me.
Ohhh, and BTW, mets fans are not unhappy with their “Star” player, maybe they’ve grown frustrated about losing and knowing what their “Star” player is all about, a streaky player who’ll more likely than not will have a good first half, bomb on the second half and the team will yet again have another losing season. so forgive me and those are seem “unhappy” with the “Star” player of the team having a good 3 games stretch against some of the WORST teams in the WBC.
Alex: Again – if you’d like to reply to me, please do so. I do not mind talking baseball with you. You don’t have to be so shy, if we stick to baseball we can hold a conversation – but if you don’t want to chat with me then don’t reply to what I say and try to hide the fact you’re doing so.
Nobody knows Derek Jeter better than Joe Torre. So…
Wait, Derek Jeter was getting trashed just yesterday in this very blog, now since torre compared wright to jeter all of the sudden it’s ok to use jeter as a metaphor to praise captain america? you people are such hypocrites it’s embarrasing…. wow…..
Where did I praise Jeter, or trash him?
Joe Torre made the comparison not me. I have Torre’s old email address if you want to take it up with him. Not sure if it’s still active.
All I did was pass along a story by Kevin Kernan. Now if you want to accuse me of praising David Wright, go ahead. I consider that a badge of honor anyway.
Also, by now you should know that on MMO we have over 40 writers and all of them have different opinions. This isn’t like some other sites where all the writers share one brain.
Did i at any point say Joe D??? look up just above and see metro12 continuing to diminish jeter and his HOF credientials and accomplishments and understand why i said what i said… you know damn well i let you have it whenever you need to have it, but i didn’t single you or anyone out in my comment because there were more than a few trashing jeter… and remember that artticle about wright being better than him? please, it’s just laughable to even compare a HOF with an above average player on a losing team year after year…
LOL, okay Alex….
So what were your thoughts on Ted Williams, Ken Griffey Jr. and Ryne Sandberg who never won anything either?
Joe D, i hope your account got hacked and someone else type this question. are you serious comparing 3 HOF who made their team better all around with david wright?????
WHile Ted williams never won anything he was arguably the best hitter of his era, one of the best all time.
Ryne Sandberg was my favorite Cub of all time, yes, even ahead of sammy sosa (who at the time was very popular amongst the dominican population) and a guy who can do it all, Gold Glover, Hit for avg power and steal bases, took the cubs twice to the postseason and hit very well if i remember…
Ken Griffey???? really? arguably the best player a lot of us have seen, Power, Defense, average, power arm, the player of the 90′s decade, are you serious?????????? All those players not only are HOF (Griffey will be) but we’re taking batting champions, HR champions, MVPs, Gold Glovers, do not disrespect them by putting wright in the same sentence with them EVER again..
Have no fear, Alex…
Nobody has hacked my account.
I just wanted to debunk one of the arguments the David Wright haters usually bring up. “We never won anything with David Wright.”
It looks like we agree and that winning a World Series is not a measure of how good or great a player is.
Congratulations… You see, we just made some progress – me and you.
Yup and you don’t have to use HOFs as an example. Just point to Reyes, Beltran, Delgado, none of them have “won” anything either right?
Ok, but the hole we never won anything with them we being throwing out there by the you know whos. when beltran got traded and reyes left, the whole we never won anything with them were being thrown out as if it was their fault we never did. Like i said, time will tell whether we win something with wright because he’s still a met, but if we do, it’ll be in spite of him imho. If he’s the best player on this team, we’re not winning anything anytime soon.
” it’ll be in spite of him imho. ”
When you make comments like this Alex it just shows hate and bias.
Did the Mets in 86 win in-spite of Ray Knight? I am pretty sure if the Mets win a WS Wright will play a major role in it even if he only hits .270 12 65 which I don’t think most expect anytime soon.
You have to consider the source when you read statements like that and it’s clear Alex has long not been a fan of Wright based on his own words so of course he would say he thinks the Mets if they won a W.S. it would be in spite of Wright. I told him he could do what he just said long before he ever even said it today.
Some people don’t like Jose Reyes others don’t like Jason Bay and some don’t like David Wright. He’s entitled to not like him just as others are entitled to not like Reyes or Bay.
Yes, you’re right. People said that about Reyes and Beltran and I stood up for both players strongly and wrote many a post defending them against such an ignorant stance.
Agreed. I never wanted either of them gone because “we haven’t won”.
Exactly, but doesn’t change the fact that it was brought in… and it was said many times, but everyone in here including some of the IMMORTALS on their articles…
So you are basing your comments and opinions on Wright from what was said about Reyes and Beltran?
No but he IS using the same CRITERIA for judging the worth of keeping a Met player that was used by others to kick Reyes and Beltran to the curb as NOT WORTH HAVING!
When one side did it then it was All about paying too much money….
Now that the other side has said a player they LIKE is being paid too much he is a hater!
If you don’t make the bad tasting soup no one will be encouraged to feed it to you to see how it tastes!
I never have understood the you did it to me so I will do it to you or the revenge part of discussing issues. For me each situation is separate, so just because someone else had certain feelings on a player I liked doesn’t change the way I feel about another player. To each his own.
Don’t understand it?
What if I put it another way?
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you
Those who live in a glass house should NOT throw stones
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
And to those who wish to take Alex to task for trashing a Met player….
Let him without sin cast the first stone!
Sorry Metsie, that’s just not for me. I don’t need to base my opinions on other players or situations because someone didn’t like a player or a situation I do like. Seems trivial to me.
Ohhhh they mistreated Beltran so I am gonna get them back by mistreating Wright.
To me those thought processes shouldn’t even go through an adults head.
An others feel trashing a Batting Champ for three straight months is not the thought proccess of an adult either….
Neither is the Young and MAYBE is better than OLD and PROVEN line of thought very adult.
And CERTAINLY not the YOUR TRASHED A PLAYER YOUR NOT A FAN which has been the main mantra of the many who don’t like Alex’s opinion!
As for you not thinking tit for tat is an adult thought proccess it is a HUMAN proccess….
Don’t start nothing won’t be nothing….
Who is less adult?
The guy who makes the bad criteria for judging players or the one who then uses that guys argument against him!
Only a child would think that what he can do no one else should be able to use…
You lob Artillery better expect Artillery!
You argue white is black next week white had better still be black!
In either case it is the one who thinks double standards are OK that are the children!
I want the right but I don’t want YOU to have it too!
Rantings of a spoiled child if you ask me…
And just to be clear here TRS so there is no misunderstanding….
I am not accusing you of this at all…
Just saying there are some here who seem to think they can make up lame excuses to make thier point and then get POed when someone else uses the same excuse back on them….
They compared reyes to other SSs and what they got paid….
Alex did it and that was not allowed for some childish reason….
Metsie, the “bad criteria” for judging a player is completely subjective and certainly an opinion. The basing ones opinion on the fact that someone else didn’t like my player is childish and certainly not how rational adults behave.
Right same as it was when Reyes was the player’s name….
So whats the problem now that Alex is doing what others did?
Why is he BAD while the others were GOOD?
And if they were NOT good then why did everyone wait before they stood up to it and waited until Alex made HIS opinion known while giving a pass to others for doing what he is doing now?
You keep running from the point…Not about MY Player YOUR Player…
Its about the MOVING CRITERIA that was good for stating an opinion on ONE but not the OTHER!
You don’t seem to like it when rules set down by others is used against them….
You seem to want there to be two sets of rules here….
Whoever sets the rules first can recind them later when it suits them!
Sorry but thats the child mind thinking NOT the adult!
See below.
As I have said on many occassions….
I respect Alex’s right to not like Wright even though I disagree….
But this is NOT and has NEVER BEEN about Wright…..
This is just the TAT for all the TIT that Reyes and Beltran got!
The excuses used to trash, belittle and get rid of Beltran and Reyes is now being used on Wright and some who INVENTED this lets stretch what WORTH IT is are now upset that thier own Despicable tactics towards trashing a player is being used against a guy they like!
Nothing more….Nothing less!
Only now they see how rediculous they sounded when they did it to Reyes and Beltran!
As adults I find that appalling and ridiculous but oh well.
Where was your high minded ADULT sensability when it was Reyes and Beltran getting the treatment?
The society set the rules on what was ok and what was allowable under the auspices of OPINION….
SO he has every right to state his using the rules set by the community!
If you think not then you seem to think some are beyond criticism and can do anything while others are restricted from the same rights….
It’s called DISCRIMINATION and is very much at the heart of this conflict!
Ok to trash the Latino but don’t dare touch the White guy!
Is it stupid? YEP but it is the stupidity of those that think it’s ok to trash one guy (who happens to be a minority but not for long LOL) but not the guy who happens to be the Wright color!
I don’t condone race being the issue….And I fought JDD vigorously when he made it such….
But that doesn’t mean he wasn’t right when he mentioned what the only REAL difference between those players was when all was said and done!
Is it wrong? Yes it was wrong from the get go….
And by that I mean the second someone decided to trash the Latino then got pissed when the white guy was under fire…..
There’s a difference in saying that Jose Reyes shouldn’t get the contract he got and saying Wright shouldn’t get his. That’s fine if that’s what you believe. Those are opinions and nothing wrong with them. Where I disagree is having that opinion based just on the fact that a guy you liked didn’t get it so neither should he…
There are independent reasons that the Mets shouldn’t have signed Reyes and if I say that they shouldn’t that is my opinion. However, just because I say that doesn’t mean that we should have to listen to this garbage on Wright just because they are pissed about Reyes. Be adults and move on.
maybe b/c those decision with Wright and Reyes were made 1 year apart from each other…
if this were Wright and Strawberry…maybe u have a case…
but Wright and Reyes were the MJ and Pippen of our team…the Ewing and Oakley…
they went together…
and organization depth wise, we had ALOT more options at 3B than we did at SS, which is a much harder position to fill
sorry, but i can come up with A MUCH better case ( w/o factoring in marketing ) for Reyes than for Wright
Does it matter if you can come up with more reasons to keep Reyes over Wright? Does that change the fact that now attacking Wright because the Mets chose him over Reyes is ridiculous? It’s time to move on and appreciate the fact that we do have one of the best 3B in the game, you don’t have to like him but hopefully you are pulling like hell for him.
You keep assuming that it is about the players but your wrong….
I bet if Reyes were here and signed that we wouldn’t hear a peep about Wright and we would be trashing those who didn’t want reyes back instead!
If you use one set of criteria to say Reyes NO WANT!
Then there is nothing wrong with using the SAME PASS/FAIL criteria towards Wright….
Then did’t SET the criteria for judging one player over the other…..
They did NOT do something different with one player compared to another….
The guys who set the criteria and then threw it away when it was Wright turns did all that!
Not the guys applying what was considered a FAIR ASSESMENT when it was Reyes to Wright!
“Does it matter if you can come up with more reasons to keep Reyes over Wright”
It does if you set one set of acceptable reasons for one player but then take it away for the other….
The list of pickable REASONS for Reyes was very different and not as many to choose from as Wright….
Even the list of reasons NOT to was much more comprehensive for Reyes than it was for Wright…
And whats worse is Wright got paid a ton more than Reyes did!
Metsie, I guess as usual we shall agree to disagree. The hatred of all things Wright has nothing to do with the standards set for their contracts and existed way before the contracts were ever signed or not signed. Time to move on.
The Hatred of Wright is NO DIFFERENT than the Hatred of Reyes….
For whatever reason you think the hatred is for the SAME reason….
Is he worth the money!
Reyes Wasn’t based on a set of criteria set by those who hated Reyes…
And now someone is saying Wright isn’t based on the same cirteria!
You want to say BOTH are wrong then we will agree!
The problem is you only want to make ONE side wrong for doing the same thing your refusing to blame the others for INVENTING and starting in the first place!
You can’t say a guy is slow for running 5.5 40 and then say a guy who runs one at 5.6 as having speed!
Just as you can’t say a guy who won a Batting title is not worth 17 Mil but a guy who has NEVER won one is….
Set a standard and stick to it but don’t expect to change the terms of the judgment after you got your way and now that the way works against you on a player you DO like….
THATS childish!
Again Metsie this started WAY before the contracts so lets just move on.
Yes it started when the decision was about which one to keep Reyes or Wright because some INSISTED we couldn’t keep both…..
I wonder who insisted that? I wonder why?
Sure it has to do with a book they read…..
You know those folks who use MONEY as every excuse to do or not do things because they seemingly care more about the BUSINESS than the BASEBALL?
And the ones who started the debate are the ones who set the criteria, who set the ground rules on WORTH and performance that they no longer seem to want to apply now that they got rid of the guy THEY hated and see thier cirteria being used on the guy they don’t hate…
Nope started way before that.
So the response to illegitimate, idiotic, and ignorant criticism is more illegitimate, idiotic, and ignorant criticism? That’s just stupid and childish behavior.
METSIE – “The guys who set the criteria and then threw it away when it was Wright turns did all that!”
BINGO
Yes Stupid an childish but if you didn’t want it to happen you should have taken the FIRST stupid Idiotic use in it’s tracks…
But you can’t tell kids you can’t have cookies, let the first one steal one with no punichment and then take a strap to the second because he did what the first one did!
Which ia ll you guys are trying to do….
Probably because you LIKED the first guys better than the guys two did it second….
Hipocracy abounds….
Look I have no clue who or what may have been said in regards to Beltran, Reyes etc. here because I wasn’t reading this site then, I only started in the last month and half or so. I do know that I or the met fans I know have never treated Beltran or Reyes in any other than is deserved by their great play. I don’t know why you and a few others seem to need to settle scores by tearing down another player simply because someone somewhere tore down your favorite, just that it’s stupid and unproductive and it makes you look like petty children and makes the site, one which I’ve generally enjoyed, look bad.
My advice, and I know you’ll probably write it off a split second after reading it, is to move on. There is no winning a blog, the only thing that happens to divisive posters on the internet is that they either get banned or run off everyone else and no one benefits from that.
Not quite as childish and whining and crying that you used my logic and it’s MINE MINE MINE you can’t use that!
After you got your way when you threw the same tantrum….
And NOTHING is more childish than the YOUR NOT A FAN response people are getting for stating thier opinion….
If you don’t think it is ok to trash Players….Then don’t…EVER for ANY reason if you wish to be a Met fan and call someone else NOT a fan for doing what you do!
even if he only hits .270 12 65 which I don’t think most expect anytime soon”
Didn’t he hit 254 14 61 in 2011??? Change that to hope it doesn’t happen again… i don’t show hate, but didn’t the Giants paid zito and rowland ton of money, yet in spite of them they won the WS?
Yes Alex in an injury plagued years he had career lows. Good job. Do you expect those numbers? LOL wrong person to ask.
As for Rowand and Zito, some of your friends champion their contributions and say they were good signings. But regardless, if you expect Wright to fall to their production then again you are showing your bias.
Well he does have a bad back, you never know… But like i said, i do hope he shuts me, bayonne, and others up, however, since 2008, we’ve been right.
Of course you never know that’s the beauty of baseball. However, do you expect those numbers out of Wright the next few years? I think even you guys expect much better than that, even if they are “empty”. LOL.
But that “we never won a WS ring with _____” argument was made to justify an argument for not keeping reyes, or even resigning Beltran in the 2011 off-season
again. Wright fans completely do an about face when it came to him…
As I said above to jessep, in that game against Italy, Jeter maybe gets a double. Wright hits a HR.
That’s not the only difference between the two. One of the criticisms of Jeter has been his silence on PEDs. Maybe that;s a result of so many of his teammates during the Yankees’ title years having cheated and juiced. Maybe if Jeter was more outspoken, it would tend to undermine the legitimacy of those titles. So he keeps quiet. But whatever the reason, I like that Wright has been a more vocal opponent of using PEDs and cheating. If more players had been outspoken light that 15 years ago, maybe PEDs testing could have been implemented sooner.
i am a met fan but comparing Wright to Jeter as like comparing Sal Bando to Pete Rose. One a nice All Star level player and the other a generational defining player and star.
Lol, Jon, you’re gonna have to explain to this kid who salvatore was, and for that matter pete rose as well…. When someone says jeter is not a HOF and he’s on the bubble you end the conversation with that person right away as the lack of baseball knowldege is contegious so just stay away
So, jon, what is it exactly that makes Jeter a “generational defining player and star?”
Is it the Biggio-level production and stats produced in stacked lineups for virtually every year of his career?
Is it the WS titles fueled by baseball’s biggest payrolls, steroids juiced players, and the best closer in maybe all of baseball history?
How about the below average defense interjected now and then by a splashy play (some say just for show!)?
Or maybe it’s his notable silence and lack of leadership — despite the fact he’s the team’s captain — on big baseball issues such as PEDs?
What is it?
I dont know…maybe being a 13 time all star , 5 time world series champion, .313 lifetime avg, .308 in the post season, 3300 hits, 200 post season hits. Stuff like that.
Ahhh, I thought so. The old WS argument, which is a team thing. And if you had to pick just 1 player most crucial to those titles, it would arguably be Rivera.
As for being an all-star, he can thank Joe Torre for hand-picking him many times when he wasn’t even the best SS in his league. Many times Jeter made the team without ever being voted in by the fans.
As for his stats, Biggio had similar production, yet many consider him a marginal HOFer while putting Jeter on a throne. Why such a stark disparity for two similar players?
SMH
As for his stats, Biggio had similar production, yet many consider him a marginal HOFer while putting Jeter on a throne. Why such a stark disparity for two similar players?”
Joe D, please send this guy to the drunk tank… He needs a timeout immendiately for saying stuff like he has about jeter the past 2 days. Metro, are you being serious right now? I get the whole lack of baseball history, but bro, you cannot be serious.. There’s no way you’re being serious right now….
Metro, you really do need to stop because this is forcing me and Alex to agree with each other which could cause a world calamity.
Didn’t know our rivalry was that bad….
I am pretty sure if we continue to agree on the absurdity that Jeter isn’t a first ballot HOF that the poles will flip which will cause the death of billions of birds around the world.
LOL, do what you gotta do! If you need to go over to the dark side momentarily to stay true to yourself, so be it. I will still respect you after.
Biggio: 3060 hits and a .281 .363 .433 .796 line for 20 years and 2850 Games.
Jeter: 3304 hits HR and a .313 .382 .448 .829 line for 18 years and 2585 Games.
It isn’t just the championships. Jeter was and is just in a different class than Biggio.
well said…also Sal Bando was a pretty good player…4 time all star and finished in the top mvp voting 3 times. Won 3 championships and was the second or third or fourth best player on that team for those years. Similrly Wright was best for us as the 2nd or third or fourth best player on the team and if we are to win some titles he needs to fit into that role again. If D Wright is our best player I dont see us winning anything.
Sorry, TRS, but I totally disagree. Yes, Jeter has better stats than Biggio but only by a little …
Career OPS+
Jeter 117
Biggio 112
Career bWAR
Jeter 69.3
Biggio 62.1
The differences are not that stark as to put the two players in different classes and really beg the question why one is considered by some to be a marginal HOFer while the other has been crowned a king.
Metro I will move on again but last I will say that those are very stark differences. In a game where 1 for 3 is an all-star and 1/4 is a slob, those numbers are the difference in a border line HOF and a first ballot.
TRS, sure, but the difference between Biggio and Jeter is not anything close to 1/4 and 1/3 — especially park-adjusted.
And , again, consider that Biggio rarely played in stacked lineups while Jeter almost always has played in one.
Jeter does have better career stats, but not by much.
Since when is 300 hits not by much? You do realize that most likely by the time Jeter plays in the same amount of games and years as Biggio that he is likely to be in the top 5 in hits all-time?
This is silly.
When it is spread over 2,585 games. And again, you can’t discount the fact that Jeter has always hit in more stacked lineups than Biggio, and in better hitters parks. What’s why their OPS+ is so close.
Also, when you lead off in a stacked Yankees lineup with the DH in the AL, you are going to get the most plate appearances in baseball.
THAT’S why their OPS+ is so close.
Should actually read: Also, when you lead off in a stacked Yankees lineup with the DH in the AL, in a hitters park nonetheless, you are going to get the most plate appearances in baseball.
Similrly Wright was best for us as the 2nd or third or fourth best player on the team and if we are to win some titles he needs to fit into that role again. ”
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Alex, how exactly do we prove that Wright wasn’t the best player on the 2006-2008 teams?
TRS, according to WAR, Wright has been the best player on the Mets since he broke into baseball. If you look at the WAR of any other player on the Mets since 2004, Wright has a higher WAR for that corresponding time period.
Honestly by almost any offensive stat you could show he was the best player on those teams. I am just saying if you were to say he wasn’t, what evidence would you provide?
Very convinient for you to say since he’s come up, how about using from the time carlos beltran’s time???? from 2005-2011 here’s their WAR:
Beltran in 883 Games with the mets had a 30.2 WAR
Wright in 1037 Games had a 30.4 WAR during the same time….
Of course your agenda wouldn’t let you post that right?
Hey that looks fun.
From 2005-2012 Wright’s WAR ranks him 4th in baseball. Beltran 11th.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2005&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=21,d
LOL, another be-careful-what-you-wish-for-moment for Alex.
FYI, I had already looked at Wright’s WAR compared to all other key Mets since 2004 and Wright always came out ahead.
I said 2005-2011 AS A MET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! read again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But of course, in order to fulfill your agenda, you needed last year’s WAR to pumped wirght’s…. You are very clever if one is an idiot. you don’t fool me, you’re nothing but a don’t care what people say wright lover.
LOL, why shouldn’t I include last year’s WAR in a discussion comparing Wright and Beltran’s careers since 2012?
As for their time here,
I have
Beltran with 30.9
Wright with 36.7
Not sure which WAR you are using.
Baseball reference… Always do.
I normally use fangraphs when looking at saber stats and br when looking at traditional stats. Pretty big discrepancy there.
The difference is Carlos Beltran was putting up good numbers when he was with the weak royals..
Carlos Beltran has performed well in hitters parks, pitchers parks, weak lineups, strong lineups..
David Wright needs all the stars aligned or he turns into Kevin Elster
Huh? Beltran has had 3 sub-100 OPS+ years in his career – ’99, ’00, ’05. Wright has never had a single sub-100 OPS+ year in his entire career. And yet Wright has played on very weak offensive teams in 2004, 2009, 2010, and 2012 And 2005 was a mediocre offensive team at best. So has been a more consistent player than Beltran, while having played on some poor teams.
Bottom line, from 2005 through 2011, Wright’s OPS is 889 and Beltran during the same period, playing under the same exact conditions, put up an .872 OPS. The stars were not all certainly aligned during that period for either player – and yet Wright outperforms Beltran.
Metro12
so now sub-100 OPS is the ONLY barometer u measure “good numbers” by?
what about defense?
what about base-running?
Beltran’s WAR without Wright >>>> Wright’s WAR without Beltran
but then again, you’re the same guy that said a player 3,300 hits is a bubble HOF candidate
despite the fact that not one player with 3,000 hits or more has ever missed the HOF
LMAO
ur a clown, except not as funny
Huh? Who said OPS is the ONLY way to measure “good numbers?” But this IS a discussion about offense and protection in the lineup. So why would you want to use WAR or anything else? But, OK, since you insist …
2005-2011 WAR
Wright 36.7
Beltran 32.2
2012 WAR
Wright 7.8
Beltran 3.6
So, Wright’s WAR with Beltran is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than Beltran’s WAR with Wright.
And Wright’s WAR without Beltran is >>>>>>>>>>>>Beltran’s WAR without Wright.
But then you are the guy who got payroll rankings mixed up with attendance rankings!
LMAO, you ARE a clown. Only funnier!
Also, you must be using baseball reference because I got
36.7 for Wright and 32.2 for Beltran if you take out 2012.
It is open to opinion but pretty clearly Beltran was the guy and Delgado was the pwer supplier. Now whether their production was the best each year is debatable.
for my two cents in 2006 i would rank it Beltran, Reyes, delgado, Wright.
In 2007 I would rank it Wright, Beltran, Reyes, Delgado. In 2008 I would rank it Delgado, Wright, Reyes,Beltran
I guess that’s my point. When you have Reyes, Wright, Beltran and Delgado it’s gonna be difficult to say who is the best player when all four produce.
Yes but the only guy who rountinely got pitched around was Delgado. Especially when it counted…ie in the NLCS 2006 and down the stretch in 2008. Beltran with his defense and offense was the best centerfielder in the game. Those guys were paid to be the stars whereas wright and reyes as good as they are, were expected more to support Beltran and delgado.
The difference is Delgado and Beltran played on all sorts of good/bad teams and stadiums + still produced.
Wright fans point to any sort of change between 2008 + now as the reason why he has not replicated his previous production.
The Mets brought the fences back in last year and Wright only had 21 HR’s …at the ancient age of 29….
Beltran had 32 HR’s last year at the age of 35…in LESS games….
Sorry…but Wright fans have more excuses than Mitt Romney supporters did a few months ago
The difference is Delgado and Beltran played on all sorts of good/bad teams and stadiums + still produced.
Huh? Beltran has three sub-100 OPS+ years in his career. Wright has none. Wright has clearly been the more consistent player in his career. I’m not going to get into Delgado since he played in the AL in great hitters parks and his best years came in another era, but just note that from 2006 through 2009, the years Delgado was a Met, Wright put up a .911 OPS vs. .857 for Delgado.
Wright fans point to any sort of change between 2008 + now as the reason why he has not replicated his previous production.
The Mets brought the fences back in last year and Wright only had 21 HR’s …at the ancient age of 29…
But Wright, in 2012, did replicate his previous production. LOL at “only had 21 HR’s” … because (1) Citi is still a pitchers park though it’s been made more neutral and (2) he put up an OPS of .883 which is almost exactly his career average OPS of .889!
So you’re bashing Wright for replicating in 2012 his career OPS! Too funny!
Beltran had 32 HR’s last year at the age of 35…in LESS games….
But Beltran put up an .843 OPS which was actually LOWER than Wright’s. And Beltran played on a better team, in a better lineup. So … Wright has a better year than
Beltran even when he plays on an inferior team and in an inferior lineup! Imagine what Wright would have done in 2012 if he played on a good team in a good lineup???
Sorry…but Wright fans have more excuses than Mitt Romney supporters did a few months ago
What excuses? I think it’s clear by now that Citi Field did impact Wright negatively and his numbers rebounded since the fence changes.
” I think it’s clear by now that Citi Field did impact Wright negatively and his numbers rebounded since the fence changes.”
which totally explains why his HR totals were higher in 2010 with the large RF fence than they were in 2012 with the shorter RF fence…
o wait, it doesnt !
and OPS is OBP plus slugging…
slugging = total bases / plate appearences
OPS is NOT an absolute measure of power
if Wright is IBB all year long, because he has a weak hitter behind him, his OPS is raised high, despite his not having to do anything
Beltran just hits HR’s everywhere he goes…weak lineup, strong lineups, AL Central, NL Central, NL West, NL Central, different leagues, divisions, lineups, umpires, weather conditions, whatever…
which totally explains why his HR totals were higher in 2010 with the large RF fence than they were in 2012 with the shorter RF fence…
Nope … It totally explains why ALL his numbers have been off since moving to Citi Field. The larger dimensions screwed up his entire swing and approach at the plate, so while Wright had more HRs in 2010 than in 2012, his BA and OBP took a dive. In 2012, his BA, OBP, and SLG all went back to his career norms, and his OPS was also back to normal and the highest it’s been since the move to Citi.
OPS is NOT an absolute measure of power
No one said it was. But it’s one of the best numbers to use when looking at OVERALL offensive production.
if Wright is IBB all year long, because he has a weak hitter behind him, his OPS is raised high, despite his not having to do anything
Except that’s not why Wright’s 2012 OPS rebounded. The number of IBBs Wright had in 2012 was not significantly more than his career norms. And if you took them away and instead counted his normal OBP and BA against those IBBs, then his 2012 OPS would be essentially the same.
Beltran just hits HR’s everywhere he goes…weak lineup, strong lineups, AL Central, NL Central, NL West, NL Central, different leagues, divisions, lineups, umpires, weather conditions, whatever…
And Wright hits for a better average, gets a higher OBP and OPS … and ends up with a better WAR!
and if that were the regular-season, Jeter gets a double, Wright strikes out
Their BA with the bases loaded is extremely close but Wright has been more productive than Jeter in those situations because of his power:
Career BA/OPS with bases loaded:
Wright .314/.907
Jeter .327/787
I think most GMs, knowing the stats, would pick Wright to go up in that situation over Jeter.
The edge for Wright would even be greater if the numbers were park-adjusted.
I don’t think any GM or any smart baseball person would ever have to look at any stat in deciding whether to take Jeter or Wright in any big spot. And I’m saying that without adjusting to any parks (as if a ballpark has to do with your ability to hit when the stakes are at their highest)
Metro12 is a 100% homer. Pure and simple. And these pathetic and embarrassing Wright/Jeter comparisons also show how these ridiculous, generic, any-part-of-game-with-any score “leverage” numbers on paper, devoid of any explanations of game situations, can be skewed, mis-skewed, and flat-out blantantly mislead.
Homers are only true to themselves and their teams and be-damned any cognizance of whatever limited knowledge they try to pass of as their own baseball credibility. Well i guess if you doubt your own baseball credibility or don’t care to enhance it then why should you give a damn about any credibility about the legitimacy of some new-fangled numbers than can mislead or twist into almost anything you want them to believe
You are a 100% hater. Plain and simple. What’s embarrassing is how some of you think BA and OPS are newfangled stats when used in a way that destroys your argument. High leverage and “bases loaded” are self explanatory and as rudimentary as one can get — unless you have a deep seated bias or are truly inept when it comes to understanding baseball.
We will agree to disagree.
Is it really his power or is it where he has hit in the order compared to Jeter?
Huh? How would hitting anywhere in the order be a major factor in OPS — unless you are talking about someone hitting 7th or 8th in the NL or at the bottom of the order in a particularly weak AL lineup, situations which apply to neither player?
More good food for thought …
Career High Leverage BA/OPS:
Wright .317/.911
Jeter .317/.826
Again, Wright comes out ahead. And, again, those numbers aren’t even park-adjusted.
Metro, i will ask you one final question, and please answer it with honesty, forget bias, hate, double standard, your love and affection for wright, just be honest. forget all those numbers you seem to be putting there, saber stats, war, clutch this and that, forget it, just be honest ok?
Is Derek Jeter a HOF?
Is David Wright a HOF?
Alex forget it don’t waste anymore of your time,
People like Metro12 are unabashed, 100% HOMERS. They fight to the death for their favorite teams/players right or wrong. Doesn’t matter if they are right or wrong in the grand scheme of things. It’s all about being a fan of the team. They are more interested in being a fan of their teams than being actual students/lovers of the game itself.
Let me put it another way Alex, You CANNOT reason with homers. It doesn’t work that way with homers nor should it. With homers it’s about THEIR team and their guy right or wrong.
Reasoning is not part of the equation with homers so don’t expect it.
No problem since I am not biased and don’t have double standards unlike the Wright haters …
Is Derek Jeter a HOFer? Only slightly more so than Biggio.
Is David Wright a HOFer? Not yet.
And , LMAO at you thinking BA and OPS are saber stats. I purposely try to keep it simple when conversing with you … but .. sigh … that may be not enough!
If you want to compare them you need to do so by age. You can’t compare Jeter now to Wright now because you have no idea what Wright will do. Jeter’s remaining games are a footnote
Through 29, Wright has More doubles, more HR, more RBI, better slugging, better OPS
Jeter has 120 more hits, 12 more SB, .06 in average, .08 in OBP and obviously the rings
If Wright plays for 10 more years, he could be a hall of famer. He’s not Derek Jeter, its unfair to both to try and say he is. But, he certainly has a shot at the HOF if he stays healthy and plays for 8-10 years. But, we got a long way to go for that
it is nice to see Wright perform well in the WBC but really who cares. I mean the USA struggled to advance vs three “baseball powers” in Mexico, Italy and Canada. It is early march and pitchers are just getting ready to throw more than 3 innings and hitters are still getting their timing down. So most are not in top form. Maybe the USA will advance , maybe not but they obviously have the most talent.
The tournament is a joke. I mean if it really meant something Verlander, Kershaw, Hamels and Price would be heading the rotation and Kemp, Tulowitski, Fielder, Trout and Posey would be in the lineup. Same goes for the DR with Pujols, Beltre, Bautista and Cueto sitting out.
It is really the WBC of players who feel like playing
I disagree that this tournament is a ‘joke’.
I do agree that the USA does not have all the best of the best on the team. Can’t blame that on anyone though as it’s all voluntary to play or not, if you’re selected.
Even though the USA might not have the best talent up and down the lineup as compared to some of the other teams, still doesn’t meant they don’t want to win. They obviously do. Remains to be seen if they’ll advance though.
There is no doubt that the players that are on that team want to win. In fact I bet the fact that so many are saying the US best players aren’t there is motivation for the ones that are there.
Even though the USA might not have the best talent up and down the lineup as compared to some of the other teams,”
Uhhh… That’s bull, USA team is loaded, and if you compared them to every other team, you’ll see that team USA has the best players and most talent.
I think she means that other countries most likely sent their best players up and down where the US might not have.
USA back up players >>> Most best players on most the other teams. Excuses…. Excuses…
Huh? Who’s making excuses?
Not their pitching, Alex.
The position players I agree with.
Wright continues to represent his Country and the Mets well. It’s always nice when amongst his peers on a team of All Stars people see in Wright what many Mets fans already know.
“David is a great guy,’’ Phillips said. “He is a great hitter. He’s a professional. Guys like myself look up to him. He’s a leader. I’m learning a lot from him.’’ – 2B Brandon Phillips, Reds
Agreed.
I’m hearing much lately about his leadership qualities from those outside the Mets organization.
SRT, I too remember many people praising Alex Cora for his leadership qualities as well. however, i do hope it translate to the field and he does make everyone around better… it hasn’t been that way, but you never know, people change, from choker to WS MVP sounds awesome…
Agree with you about Cora and the ‘intangibles’ he brought to justify re-signing him.
WS MVP…nice ring to it. Heck, just getting to the WS has a nice ring to it.
I wonder two things.
I wonder if Wright is starting to be more comfortable with that role?
and
I wonder if because of the contract other players respect him more?
TRS, hard to say, Mauer’s contract is better. i think is his 10 year career that makes him unique. who knows, maybe the guy change and is now ready to lead us to the playoffs… I hope he makes me eat my word to tell you the truth…
It’s just we have heard a dramatic increase in these comments from some very respected baseball people both inside and outside the organization. You have to think that something changed for that to pick up. It may very well be that many already viewed him that way but were never ask and now they are being asked or it could be one of those things I said above but I do find it curious.
OR perhaps he is thriving in the situation where the Manager is laid back, doesn’t overmanage, Lets the players do what they do without the STIFLING Philisophical doctrine, Over Emphasis on ORGANIZATIONAL THEORY, and because he is let loose to be who he is not what some Office Geek says he should be he is thriving, performing and as a result LEADING his team where here he can NEVER really be the leader as we are not a MERITOCRACY just are a MATHEMATICAL AUTOCRACY!
And it sure doesn’t hurt to have some of the best players in the game batting around him as well….
Just as he had in 2006-2008 when he was at his best!
I just caution everyone that in 5 years he will still be getting paid 20 Million and all this love for Wright could evaporate faster than you can say Jason Bay!
I hope not but in Metland Today’s hero usually winds up being Tomorrow’s Goat and all it really takes is one missed Curveball to get there!
What is with the whole so called “one size fits all” strategy. The oganization is just stressing patience at the plate. Work a pitch count up. See more pitches. What’s the problem? It’s as if Alderson is the only GM that does it. And it’s not like they are cutting players that don’t take pitches. You have zero evidence that this has gone as far as you claim.
“What’s the problem? ”
It’s that they are taking strikes they should NOT take but crush and letting balls close enough to call a strike get called in hopes of getting a walk as opposed to PROTECTING the plate with 2Ks on them…..
THAT is the problem….
srt, Wright has always been a leader by example. Much like Jeter. But unlike Jeter, Wright has now turned into more of a proactive leader, taking stances on important issues, and speaking to other players when necessary about behavior, for example. Jeter has always been criticized for having a remote laid-back personality when it comes to leadership.
I will agree that Wright seems more outspoken about baseball issues.
MEtro, maybe the one thing i’ll give you is that, however, jeter leadership has been how much he’s exceel in games, how he’s carried himself and there are a lot of things behind the scene you don’t know that players and coaches see, we don’t. there’s a reason torre praise wright by comparing him to jeter. but it ends there. move on now.
Nope. It’s exactly from behind-the-scenes sources that criticism has been made of Jeter’s lack of leadership.
It’s easy to carry yourself with a veneer of class when you are grossly overpaid the way Jeter is.
Metro,
I am a Yankee hater but even I find some of your comments over the top with Jeter. Be careful with the grossly over paid stuff because you match up Jeter’s 2012 to a lot of other players and compare the salaries you will find you are in error.
Jeter 2012 $16M
Same as Wright who finished 6th in MVP voting (Jeter 7th)
Same as Bay (we dont even need to go ther
AGon $21M not much better year…better power but that is expected
Crawford $19.5M (we dont need to go there on this one either)
Hanley $15M
Wells $21M
So the accusation that Jeter is overpaid in this environment just doesnt hold water, at least for 2012.
task, Jeter’s AAV on his current contract and the one he was under last season is $17 million. Wright’s AAV on his contract he was under in 2012 was $9 million. Meanwhile, Wright had a 7.8 WAR in 2012 while Jeter’s WAR was only 3.2. So relative to Wright, Jeter was definitely grossly overpaid — or, if you prefer, Wright was grossly underpaid.
Is Jeter the only player in baseball who is grossly overpaid? Of course not. But at his age he is a notable overpay. Players like Hanley, Reyes, and A-Gon are still in their prime (or close to it). And Bay is different because it is universally agreed he was an unmitigated flop for the Mets. No one has ever tried to justify his salary. But many try to justify Jeter’s salary, and that is hard to do unless you believe in paying for past service long time ago (vs. expected future production). Even the Yankees thought that paying Jeter his current contract was too much and balked at the amount.
Srt, the nice thing about WBC is it is showing what Wright’s peers think about him and how much respect and admiration he has even outside his own clubhouse.
Wright is one of the Best 3B in MLB and he wears a Mets uniform simple as that.
LGM
This.
Makes that contract a little easier to justify for some…..
You and I both know that for some nothing will ever justify his contract. All I can hope for is that he can remain healthy for the life of the contract and continue to be among the best 3B in MLB throughout the life of it and possibly win a W.S. during it’s life span.
If he can do that, great.
I don’t think any of us expect him to produce the life of that contract. Most long contracts there is an expected decline. We just have to hope that the help inbetween now and the end out weighs the hurt later.
Okay let’s get serious….I think David Wright should get his due here so enough of the guff.
From this day on he is to be known as Mr. March!
That’s a compliment………………right?
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
He has earned it. I am 100% serious here. Through repeated successes in the post season Reggie Jackson earned the name Mr. October.
This is the 2nd WBC that he’s performed above and beyond so therefore from this day on he is to be referred to as Mr. March. Fitting and appropriate right? Mr. Wright’s star has never, ever shined so brightly as it has during the WBC so Mr. March it is.
Let’s face it, he deserves it
Bayonne, now that the high has been set so high, and a little pressure has been put on him due to the whole spotlight and leadership talks it’ll be interesting how he performs, we’ve all seen how he performs when the pressure is on.. Looking forward to see that.
Mr. March it is!
Was getting tired of Dimples and Golden Boy anyway.
Lmao, haven’t you heard? When it comes to david, Ambassador and Captain America are his 2 new nicknames..
Just have to say for those not following the WBC…this afternoon game between Italy and the DR is anything but boring.
MMO comment count record?
I was wondering the same thing.
And I can’t remember the last time I saw a porn ad posted here.
Boy, Torre is a terrible manager. How the hell do you bat Stanton 8th in that lineup? And Hosmer is 5th? Hosmer’s been terrible this whole series with men on base They should have gotten Howard or Ike instead to play first. I bet Torre was the one who picked Hosmer, and he’s been a failure.
Torre is another one from those Yankees teams who is vastly overrated.
How about all that bunting? LOL
Good thing that’s not a factor tonight.
Captain America is just on fire right now. 5 more RBIs tonight.
They wanted Ike after Texeira was scratched, but choose Hosmer because he was already in Az.
Um, are the airlines on strike or something?
I know that’s what they said, but it doesn’t make sense given the fact the first game didn’t start till 2 days after the substitution was made. Either Howard or Ike could have easily gotten to AZ in just hours. I think Torre made the decision and he had to say something to try to justify it so he just threw that out there.
Jeter= roberto alomar with rings playing in a big market
ummm…in his prime, roberto alomar was ALOT better than Jeter….
Roberto was basically Robinson Cano and Troy Tulowitzki put together, hit anywhere from 1-3, could bunt, steal bases, and walk on water…
til he came to Queens…
Woops thay should read NOT equal toalomar. Alomar was much better, but jeter has more rings so people falsely think he deserves first ballot HOF
That’s simply a ridiculous comment from a Mets fan who’s simply jealous. That’s it. How many of those World Series rings did Jeter contribute too? How many World Series do the Yankees win without him (cue the jealousy-based responses saying it was all Mariano)
Derek Jeter is a first ballot HOFer because of his player ability, the numbers he produced throughout his career, and his overall play. Not to mention his being the face of MLB itself for many years, a class act, and a player who ALWAYS hustles.
That’s just a fact. And intelligent BASEBALL people know that. This nonsense of comparing Alomar to Jeter has just as much weight as comparing Babe Ruth to Hank Greenberg. There’s just no reason for it.
Alomar: 2379 G, .300/.371/.443, 210 HR, 474 SB, 80 3B, great fielder
Jeter: 2585 G .313/.382/.448, 255 HR, 348 SB, 65 3B, iffy fielder, bad fielder last ~5+ years
“How many of those World Series rings did Jeter contribute too?”
All of them. He was on the team and played well. Duh.
“How many World Series do the Yankees win without him (cue the jealousy-based responses saying it was all Mariano)”
Really tough to say. The late 90s Yankees were one of the best teams of all-time. While Jeter was a great player during those years, I could see them winning all three w/o him. 2009, seven of the nine starters had 20 or more home runs. Plus the pitching was very good. I could see them winning that as well, although maybe not as handily as they did.
Side note: Alomar also hit .313 in the postseason, better than Jeter (albeit in 1/3 the ABs).
“Not to mention his being the face of MLB itself for many years, a class act, and a player who ALWAYS hustles.”
1. Alomar was also known for his hustle.
2. I would also say that it is much easier to be the face of Major League Baseball when playing for the New York Yankees. Alomar spent his years with the Padres, Indians, Blue Jays, etc. Mostly small-market teams. Jeter has the added benefit in many people’s minds because he not only played in the biggest market in the country but also because he spent his entire career with one team.
“That’s just a fact. And intelligent BASEBALL people know that. This nonsense of comparing Alomar to Jeter has just as much weight as comparing Babe Ruth to Hank Greenberg. There’s just no reason for it.”
You can call me an uninformed, ignorant baseball fan and use all caps as much as you want for emphasis, but I really disagree with you here. You speak as if Jeter is in a whole other class. Jeter was no better than Roberto Alomar and if Alomar isn’t a first-ballot guy, neither is Jeter.
While Jeter was a great player during those years, I could see them winning all three w/o him. 2009, seven of the nine starters had 20 or more home runs. Plus the pitching was very good. I could see them winning that as well, although maybe not as handily as they did.
Exactly. Jeter was just one hitter in stacked lineups during those years. He wasn’t even the most productive player in any of those years. They had Martinez, O’Neill, Williams, Posada — all as productive or more than Jeter during those years. OTOH, they didn’t have other arms in the bullpen who were as good as Rivera. If there is any player who was key to those teams and who was irreplaceable it was Rivera. Not Jeter. Not any of the other bats. Just Rivera.
Players shouldn’t get any extra credit for HOF consideration for WS titles anyway. That’s a team thing.
ummm…no…
both Jeter and Alomar are 1st ballot type HOF players…
Alomar is considered the BEST overall 2B in the past 80 years…and during his time, there was not a 2B who was even remotely close…
he was Ozzie Smith on defense and Cal Ripken on offense…all rolled up in 1, playing 2B..
Jeter in my opinion was to the Yankees what Pippen was to the Bulls, except he got Jordan type attention, due to his marketability.
and thats not a disrespect to Pippen/Jeter….
they rank in the best of their professions….
but guys like Alomar are in another class
Wright just hit a bases loaded clearing double in the WBC against PR!!! The announcers are calling him Captain America!!
Does this mean MMO will make another positive post about Wright on a Mets fan site?
It’s time we start recognizing the greatness of Captain America!
I don’t know how anyone can have a problem with celebrating pride in Country 1st and one’s MLB team 2nd but that is just me. Speaking for myself that is all this WBC is for me. Taking an opportunity to do those 2 things. Tonight was tough cause I am both Puerto Rican and American so while I was happy no matter who won I am also sad no matter who lost but as a Mets fan I can’t be any more proud how Wright has represented the Mets and USA.
The Brooklyn Cyclones are having fun with the Captain America idea.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151355911857717&l=2141932bf4
Me too, I hated seeing either one of these teams lose…..
CAPTAIN AMERICA strikes again !!!
5 RBI’s !!!!!!
We can only hope he has a huge year during the regular season. Going back to the old stance is working for him.
Joe Torre shaking his head in the dugout in disbelief when Bowa asks him if “David Wrights a player…?”
I didn’t take that as if he didn’t agree. I took that more to mean once again, Wright came through.
Yeah, yeah, thats what I meant to relay
David Wright, “PLAYER OF THE GAME” again….
lets just hope Capt America can carry this hotness into the regular season
We’ll be doing something right this season if Wright can get up 3 times a game with the bases loaded.
And some how, Wright will be wrong or over-rated or over-paid or some other nonsensical label come the morning.
u realize that if Wright came through like this in these type of situations with any semblence of regularity during the regular season….folks wouldnt be calling him over-rated….
at this point, he comes through more in the clutch in the WBC than he does in the regular season
That is just inane. He comes through more in clutch situations than noted chokers such as Cano and A-Roid. Yet some of you actually think Cano is better than Wright and would never call Cano overrated.
And, lol, of course Wright is coming through more in the WBC than he does in the regular season. If he came through like that in the regular season, he’d be the greatest MLB player who ever lived. No one hits like that in the regular season with regularity.