7
2013
From Left Field: Please, No K-Rod Reunion!
An article by 
Francisco Rodriguez spoke with reporters during yesterday’s contest in Port St. Lucie between the Mets and Team Venezuela, which is gearing up to compete in the World Baseball Classic.
K-Rod said he would welcome a reunion with the Mets and would be extra motivated if given a second chance to redeem himself.
Rodriguez is currently a free agent, and the Mets showed minimal interest earlier in the offseason.
But please, please, please Sandy Alderson: Don’t bring this guy back!
The Mets have moved on from K-Rod and his antics, and there’s really no point in reverting. Why watch a washed up reliever struggle when we have some young guys capable of getting the job the done?
And if those younger guys struggle, give them the chance to work through their mistakes rather than keep giving the same guy numerous chances.
He has already been given a second chance with the Mets. After the whole incident with his girlfriend’s father in 2010, he returned to the Mets in 2011 – after many rumors of a potential release – and actually pitched pretty well.
In fact, he pitched so well that the Milwaukee Brewers traded for him for their stretch run, and he resurrected himself as a setup man.
That was his second chance. The Brewers re-signed him for the 2012 season, and he tanked to 2-7 record with a 4.38 ERA.
So basically he’s now seeking a third chance. Well, he’s come to wrong the place.
With the game on the line in the seventh and eighth inning, I’d much rather see the ball handed off to Bobby Parnell (if he’s not closing), Jeurys Familia, Josh Edgin or Robert Carson.
Give these guys a chance. We know that K-Rod is more of a headache than what his production will be on the field. He was actually charged with domestic abuse in September, 2012, so it doesn’t seem he’s changed too much.
It’s great that K-Rod wants to redeem himself to Mets fans for a three-year period of craziness. But hopefully, the Mets stay far away from this guy.
About the Author: Jim Mancari
Jim Mancari hails from Massapequa, N.Y. He recently earned a Master's degree in Journalism at Hofstra University. He is a devout Mets fan and takes pride in his team, despite their lack of success over the last few years. Like all Mets fans, Jim has plenty of hope. He also writes as the sports reporter for the Brooklyn Tablet newspaper and the senior editor of metroBASEBALL Magazine. Click my name to view my personal website.
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Agreed, it’s just not worth it. He’s not going to come in and be the setup man for Parnell and Edgin and he may indeed just be plain shot. What’s the point of adding unnecessary drama that obviously takes a lot to even control? Besides, there’s got to be a reason he’s still out there, right?
Yes and the fact is his off field problems are NOT behind him. If memory serves me, I think he was arrested towards the end of last season for domestic battery.
Yup
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/oct/13/sports/la-sp-sn-francisco-rodriguez-krod-20121013
Not what you need for a shot in the dark type player.
“Washed up” at 31? I’m not so sure.
I also have little confidence in Parnell. I am not so categorical about K-Rod.
I agree that he is still nowhere near being at the stage where he can at least learn how to deal with his emotional difficulties in a healthy way – it takes a long time and that it still led to that domestic violence arrest a half year ago shows he still has his work cut-out for him. And, unlike most of us who have to come to grips with our demons, his wealth (for the moment) and the ego of being a celebrity allows him to avoid facing such issues seriously enough (Elvis might still be alive today despite his problems if he remainded driving that truck instead of becoming “Elvis” and surrounding himself with paid yes men who he substituted as friends).
But washed up, not at all. I’ve written on this before that he had two small stretches two months apart in which he was bombed that inflated his figures tremendously. He had two small stretches in which he gave up 17 earned runs in just 4.2 innings over seven appearances. He appeared -n 78 games total which means he was effective in 90 percent of his games – or nine out of every ten times he was called upon.
Take away that ten percent and his ERA is actually 2.38.
Just shows how stats don’t tell the entire story. If we were able to count on our current Francisco to pitch well nine out of every ten times we wouldn’t be complaining, either.
You’re dismissing his drop in strike outs and velocity. Looking deeper at the numbers tells more of the story.
HI Donal,
Good pitchers are able to compensate for decreased velocity as they get older and thus learn to depend less on speed and more on finese. Tom Seaver was not the same strikeout pitcher after 1978 but still managed to be a quality starter and had some fine seasons with the Reds and White Sox as he got older. In fact, he pitched nicely for the Mets in 1983 but as always, got no runsupport.
Not comparing KRod to the Franchise, only using Tom as an example that one can’t go by numbers to tell the complete story as indicated with the drop in strikeouts by KRod and his overall pitching performance marred by two short streaks of dismal results.
I think it’s his personal problems that are making teams shy away from him.
“Good pitchers are able to compensate for decreased velocity as they get older and thus learn to depend less on speed and more on finese.”
Ya, we’re not talking about one of those. We’re talking about a guy so reliant on throwing the ball hard, he almost fell off the mound with every pitch. Rodriguez has shown no signs of actually changing as a pitcher.
“I think it’s his personal problems that are making teams shy away from him.”
Certainly don’t help.
Hi Donal,
1) You’re dismissing his drop in strike outs and velocity
2).Looking deeper at the numbers tells more of the story.
So looking deeper into the numbers shows that his velocity went down? Not according to Fan Graphs as cited by SB Nation:
“Also, despite the drop in strikeouts, it should be noted that according to FanGraphs, Rodriguez’s average fastball velocity was actually up this year — to 91.8 miles per hour, the fastest it’s been since 2009, though well off his early years – so it’s certainly not clear that it’s his arm strength that’s failing him, if anything is.”
This is what I mean about relying on stats. Relying on stats caused an assumption in his drop in velocity. Those observing him and recording his pitches knew that not to be the case as you contended it was.
Also notice the question asked by SB Nation as well:
“Does he have enough left in the tank after a disappointing season to justify an invitation back to Milwaukee? ”
I went by his game log, not his season stats. The log shows that he had two very short periods in which he was dreadful but also that those few games are not representative of more than 90 percent of his season performance. Thus, two examples of incorrect conclusions based on the use of stats. He had an overall fine season and if one wants to look at it including those games I’m referring to, it was still not a disappointing one unless one wants to observe it from the aspect of his contract. Baseball wise, it wasn’t.
Now, the question of how effective KRod can be in 2013 is an entirely different issue. For that one needs to see him on the mound and observe his stuff and mechanics as well as the risk factor of not knowing how much his private life is going to intefer with his performance.
http://www.brewcrewball.com/2012/10/5/3458020/francisco-rodriguez-the-brewers-post-mortem
In that case FFF had a great season as well. Taking out just 5 games I am able to cut his run total in half while only taking out 1 1/3 innings. Now they are both great pitchers!!!!
HI TRS,
Well, if you look at all the holds that KRod had and those he blew and compare that to the saves and holds and blown performanes from FFF, I think one will find that is really not the case.
KRod got the job done way way more often. Of course, recognize one cannot compare FFF to FR because of the game-type situations they came into. The closer always has the tougher role. All I’m doing is comparing FR to KROD, that’s the only way to do it. Whether KRod could have performed the same coming into the ninth, considering the state of our bullpen last season, it would have been worth it for us to have found out.
But that is what happens when one does not or will not spend the money. After 2011, the Mets could have tried signing him as well but I can honestly understand why they didn’t – can you imagine what would happen to the poor individual who happened to be near two people, one of whom would throw a punch at him and the other throwing a chair in the same direction!
Again Joey, if I take 5 games away from FFF’s season he is suddenly a great pitcher too. Things don’t work like that.
In 5 games FFF gave up 13 runs in 1 1/3 innings. The rest of the year in 41 innings he gave up 13 runs. So by your standard FFF and Krod both had great years.
Oh and by the way, FFF was 23/26 in save opportunities so I am not sure what you are getting at.
Hi TR,
Well, take into account who had a 1.33 WHIP and who had a 1.606 to show how close to the brink we often came to.
Also, who in 48 appearances gave up two or more runs 8 times compared to ten times in 78 appearances?
Or who’s ERA that never got lower than 4.85 at any part of the season after his first six appearances while after 6 games an an ERA of 7.20 it was reduced to 3.59 after his 40th appearance?
Of after a stretch of eight games which included three back to back to back terriable performances in which he gave up nine runs in 1.2 innings, in his last 27 appearances held opponents to a .152 batting average, 5 walks, struck out 26 with 13 holds?.
It’s really unfair to the players to compare them to each other because FF did have the pressure of being in the closer role. But if we dp. jhis performance throughout the season contributed to so many more losses or potential losses unlike KRod.
There were no one or two small stretches where it could be pointed out that his performances were bad and stastically messed up an otherwise good season like the case with KRod. In fact, it is the opposite. FF had only two stretches in which he didn’t perform miserably overall – in fact, he was actually quite dominating instead – his first four games (no earned runs in four innings) and appearances 21 through 32 in which he gave up only two earned runs in 13 innings and lowered his ERA from 7.56 to 4.85.
TR, my concern is to only point out that KRod did not have the bad season so many like to claim he did. Will not deny the reason is because there is such disagreement on how much better off the 2011 and 2012 clubs would have been with him still being the closer – putting aside the money issue.
Sorry Joey but his season by almost any measure wasn’t any more of a success than FFF. Also, did you notice the part about FFF only having 3 blown saves in 26 chances? What makes you think Krod would have done better?
Are you also denying the fact that if you take 5 games out of FFF’s season that his ERA is suddenly in the mid 2′s as well?
Also, I would like to add that if you take FFF’s worst 2 games off of his season….
He would have given up 17 runs in 42 innings. 6 of his 23 runs came in .1 innings.
So, a slight bump from last year, when he wasn’t very effective either.
The fact is, he has been in decline and the numbers support it.
Check his Pitch fx. Did he perhaps forfeit even more command to get that slight bump in velocity?
Hi Donal,
Yes, we are all aware of MLB’s use of pitch fx and that part of that technology is the storge of data for analization. It’s a great aid for coaches and players to analyze differences in one’s pitches as time goes on.
http://www.sportvision.com/baseball/pitchfx
Fan Graphs expands pitch fx data to include what it calls “pitch values”. But note the warning they even give about “exploiting results” to project future performance:
“This statistic has limited predictive power. It can show you what pitches a pitcher has had success with in the past, but you should be careful in extrapolating those results and projecting the future. It’s a descriptive statistic, not a predictive one.”
It does appear the data referred to is being used to exploit KRod to justify the argument that he is a much worse pitcher than his actual performances have shown. Remember, first it was the numbers showing his velocity was down? Since that is not true it is now no longer his velocity going down but rather “Did he perhaps forfeit even more command to get that slight bump in velocity?”. An interesting question but how does that relate to his skills being in such sharp decline as inferred rather than the normal and expected decline for one at his age with his power-type of delivery? All it shows is what everyone knows just by seeing him pitch – that he is still a very productive reliever albiet not the one he was earlier in his career.
Again, this is why many of us contend how easily it is to jump to the wrong conclusions using advanced statistical analysis – no matter the intention.
Instead, please look at my post from 9:19 PM in which I further expand on how the stats are very misleading due to two small stretches of appearnces early and mid-season. Also note that I attached something from SB Nation in which the author points out how well he pitched during the last two months of the season when Milwaukee was making a push to get back into the post-season race. Combine what he says about the last two months and with what I point out about the first six and one can see that overall it wasn’t a bad season for KRod nor a very inconsistant one either.
http://www.fangraphs.com/library/index.php/interpreting-pitchfx-data/
“An interesting question but how does that relate to his skills being in such sharp decline as inferred rather than the normal and expected decline for one at his age with his power-type of delivery? ”
How does it not? It is a direct attempt to evaluate his current skill set.
I have no idea what you arguing at this point. Are you denying that his skills have been in decline the last few years? Are you denying that last year’s slight bump in velocity (in comparison to 2011, it is still lower than a few years ago) seems to come at the measurable cost to his command?
” All it shows is what everyone knows just by seeing him pitch – that he is still a very productive reliever albiet not the one he was earlier in his career.”
He’s so productive he still is unsigned. Maybe “everyone” who “knows” this should tell MLB. They must be nobody.
“Again, this is why many of us contend how easily it is to jump to the wrong conclusions using advanced statistical analysis – no matter the intention.”
Especially when you move the goal posts or misstate what others have said.
“Instead, please look at my post from 9:19 PM in which I further expand on how the stats are very misleading due to two small stretches of appearnces early and mid-season. ”
Why don’t you read the posts of the people who have corrected you every time you say that same thing over and over?
“Combine what he says about the last two months and with what I point out about the first six and one can see that overall it wasn’t a bad season for KRod nor a very inconsistant one either.”
Again, why is the random stretch of time you prefer more reliable than the others? You can’t just hand wave away the consistency issues.
The realities are these:
He has been in measurable decline
He has not shown to have acquired any new pitches or command of the strike zone the way other pitchers you have referred did towards the end of their careers.
He, in fact, seems to be clinging to the ability to throw really hard, despite the fact that he can’t and that it is costing him command. At this point, he isn’t even as good as Bobby Parnell.
I’m not fond of woman beaters on my team, so I’m with you there.
“I’m not fond of woman beaters on my team,”
Hi Hitman,
Now we know why you call yourself hit “man” instead of hit “woman”!
But didn’t he clock her father? Did he hit his girlfriend?
He hit both of them, Bayonne.
handicap match
Woman Beater??????????????????? Get your facts straight man..
Well to be fair, the accusation in October was related to his girlfriend, not the father.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/09/23/k-rod-once-beat-his-girlfriend-so-badly-she-had-to-be-hospitalized-prosecutor-says/
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/20775942/reports-francisco-rodriguez-charged-with-domestic-abuse
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/oct/13/sports/la-sp-sn-francisco-rodriguez-krod-20121013
Google is your friend, Alex. Next time, get YOUR facts straight before you open your mouth about something you knew NOTHING about.
To be fair though I believe the domestic charge he had while with the Brewers was dismissed and the incident in Venezuela I believe was just alleged. I don’t know if actual charges or arrests were ever made.
Something about that whole thing just screams Stockholm Syndrome. She was physically harmed, then she says that she said the argument? I’m not buying it. She’s afraid for her own personal safety, and can you really blame her?
Does the phrase “where there is smoke there is fire” sometimes prove true? Yes and that may be true in this case but I think it is only fair to note that the 2 cases cited one was alleged to have happened and the other was dismissed.
Can’t remember where I read it but some outlet had a story on him when he got arrested at Citi field reporting that there was already one restraining order against him from some woman in CA. I think it was a friend of his girlfriend’s but can’t quite remember.
Last i checked, the reports were that she got in the middle so he woudn’t hit him, but at no point the altercation was with the girlfriend. he got booked for hitting an ederly man, not a woman, different charges woudl’ve been brought in….. There, YOUR facts are once again fictitious
Spill your sources, because you never bother to do.
She got in the middle and she just “happen” to get beaten to a pulp that she was hospitalized. Right. Then came last October.
Sorry, your attempt at being his D.A. has so many holes in it. Try again.
You are missing the October 2012 incident.
So, let’s take you at your word:
the fact that his girlfriend was standing in the way did not stop him from throwing the punch.
Well, not fond of his off field antics, but………………like some of the other “maybe’s” I would give him a look through the minors. Giving others chances, why not KROD?
pretty sure this is just one of those philosophical debates for the fans. because there is probably less than a 1% chance the team would ever consider it!
Was upset when it happened the first time around. He wasn’t a good closer, only broke the record because the Angels weren’t good offensively that year.
I am simply against having K-Rod joining back with the Mets.
Let me ask a silly question to anybody who is trying to defend KRod….
Why has no team picked him up? He hasn’t received a qualifying offer – so there’s no pick on the line.
So why isn’t he on a roster? His trouble with domestic violence? His drop in velocity? Both?
Is he asking too much $? Does he have any leverage at all?
probably the “both” option. Compounded by initially asking for way too much money.
entirely possible he did receive some lowball offers that were turned down earlier in the off season that were not publicized.
at this point though, being unsigned like that has to speak volumes.
Right and not for nothing, he isn’t really in a position to ask for too much money.
I was reading a comment on another site, and Detroit on a cheap (1-1.5mill) deal as a set up guy that could step in to close if needed. Makes some sense. A discount version of what the Yankees had last year.
I gotta be honest, the Yankees should consider signing him. Banking on Mo to be healthy all year is a huge risk.
D-Rob
I don’t think KRod wants to go to any team that he would still serve only as the set-up man. He wants to close, however, if he wants to pitch this season, he is going to have give on that.
It’s that demand along with his personal problems that I think has turned off most clubs that could use him. That’s also why he so much wants another opportunity make amends with the Mets – he needs a job. It’s certainly not by his overall performance last season.
As mentioned, Krod had two short stretches in which he was completely horrible and thus inflated his overall season stats. Through his first 14 appearances he was sporting an ERA of 6.57 – due to four appearances in which he gave up two earned runs in each. In nine others he gave up zero runs and the other just one. In his next 31 appearances he lowered that ERA from 6.57 to 3.59. Then those three straight bad outings again.
But then look at what was written by one who followed the Brewers who notes how well KRod pitched the last third of the season as the Brew Crew was trying to make a push back into the playoff hunt.
“Late in the season when the Brewers were making a run at the wild card, Rodriguez actually pitched fairly well. Over the final two months, K-Rod appeared in 27 games, holding opponents to a .152 batting average. He issued only 5 walks and struck out 26, earning 13 holds and enabling the Crew to stay alive.”
Not to mention Fan Graphs showing his velocity actually improved last season.
So can understand why many (including myself) would be hesitant rewarding with a contract due to what happened in September showing he still is one of despicable behavior. However, it is not due to KRod no longer having anything to offer as some seem to imply. If Francisco pitched the way KRod did last season – including those two short stretches of being completely ineffectual – everyone would be saying Sandy made a great move.
Again, think it’s a combination of his outside baggage and demand to be a closer that is holding him back. It comes down to who is going to blink first – he and his agent or a team like Detroit that is in need of a closer.
http://www.brewcrewball.com/2012/11/12/3634998/mvbrewers-honorable-mention-francisco-rodriguez
His measurably declining skills don’t help his case. Random stretches of time really don’t help for a team like the Tigers who may find themselves in a dog fight for a playoff spot.
this isn’t college football. Each game carries the same weight.
Hi Donal,
“His measurably declining skills don’t help his case.”.
When one first states that numbers proved his velocity decreased when the actuality was that it went up, one has to question why one would make such a totally false statement to begin with. Added to that was the use of pitch fx to prove he was in decline when FanGraphs itself with it’s added pitch values cautioned
“This statistic has limited predictive power. It can show you what pitches a pitcher has had success with in the past, but you should be careful in extrapolating those results and projecting the future. It’s a descriptive statistic, not a predictive one.”
So, how does one debate an issue with another when stats are being miused to make a point along with hypothetical questions and generatlities in response to specific facts that are not open for interpretation?
I agreed that 2012 showed a decline in skills but showed in detail that it was not so steep a decline as inferred. One would not appear in 78 games if ineffective. That included two wins, 32 holds and three saves against seven losses and four blown saves. Only eleven times in 48 win/hold/save situations did he not come through. And what is important to note is that he was reliable. He had two pitching slumps. four of those bad performanes came during a nine game stretch early in the season which also included five other appearances totalling 5.1 innings in which he gave up one earned run on three hits and two walks. Two other times he did not come through were back to back in his 48th and 49th appearances.
As said, those eleven bad performances out of 78 overall appearances is what messed him up. That is why I say seasonal records for ANY PITCHER might not reflect how good he really was overall. His WHIP was still 1.333 (when the league average was 1.311).
And how could one be in “measurable decline” when 2012 came after a season in which he had an overall 73 appearances that included six wins, 23 saves and 17 holds as opposed to two losses, three blown losses and three blown saves with a 1.29 WHIP and 2.64 ERA?
No, this does not show one in “measurable decline”.
As to why he is not signed, it’s again more likely his excess baggage and insistance of being a closer than it is his decling pitching skills.
“When one first states that numbers proved his velocity decreased when the actuality was that it went up, one has to question why one would make such a totally false statement to begin with. Added to that was the use of pitch fx to prove he was in decline when FanGraphs itself with it’s added pitch values cautioned”
His velocity has been declining over the last few years. 2012 was a slight bump from 2011, not a return to his career norm, and it came at the cost of command.
Also, Fangraphs caution came using it as a prediction source on its own, it does not dismiss it as record of events. The fact is Pitchfx does indeed confirm a loss of command. Given everything else we know (really know, not assume for the sake of furthering a defeated argument), what direction do you think he’s going to trend from here on out?
“So, how does one debate an issue with another when stats are being miused to make a point along with hypothetical questions and generatlities in response to specific facts that are not open for interpretation?”
How does one debate an issue when the facts and arguments are being misrepresented?
As for responding with generalities to facts not open to discussion…you should reread what you write.
“One would not appear in 78 games if ineffective”
Bay, Jason.
“That included two wins, 32 holds and three saves against seven losses and four blown saves.”
These right here, these are the stats that are useless. These are the ones that can mislead you. These give results that are based on how the whole team performed. Not how the pitcher in question actually performed in these games.
“Only eleven times in 48 win/hold/save situations did he not come through. And what is important to note is that he was reliable.”
85% in situations where teams used to be over 90% successful…ok that is more an argument against closers in general that Rodriguez specifically.
“And what is important to note is that he was reliable. ”
Except for the inconsistency you admitted to. Because those two things aren’t total opposites.
” His WHIP was still 1.333 (when the league average was 1.311).”
That was the average for all pitchers, including guys who came up, got shelled and were sent back to Japan. For closers and set up men with at least 60 IP, Rodriguez’s WHIP ranked 42 out of 51. His ERA ranked him 48. K/9 was 25th. K/BB was 43rd.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching/_/split/48/order/false/minip/60
“No, this does not show one in “measurable decline”.”
Everything behind your misleading numbers screams “DECLINE”. Those pretty numbers apparently happened because he was put into good spots and didn’t screw up quite enough.
“As to why he is not signed, it’s again more likely his excess baggage and insistance of being a closer than it is his decling pitching skills.”
Delmon Young has a major league deal. Teams can look past baggage.
and besides, why would Rodriguez’s insistence on being a closer hold him back if it was believed he wasn’t in decline? He was closing a year and a half ago.
Hi Donal and TRS,
It seems all three of us are guilty in using KRod as a means to further express our own support or disgust with Sandy Alderson and advanced statistical analysis. That can be the only reason why we’re harping on the former Met as much as we are – I mean the arguments all three of us are making sound so much like the points we make on those other two subjects as well.
So I don’t think either party is going to convince the other although TRS, you might be making Frank Francisco feel a whole let better of himself.
Actually Joey, mine has nothing to do with Sandy only to show distaste for Krod. I don’t like FFF either, they both stunk last year no matter how you look at it.
Hi Trs,
On that point, of course I share the same feelings you do with both players. But I do think the debate had existential meaning and was more about the importance and interpretation attributed to stats. It was also quite enjoyable even if we were coming from opposite sides of the fence.