18
2013
What Do The Stats Tell Us About A Wright and Jeter Comparison?
An article by 
Updated by Joe D.
You can deny it all you want, jump up and down, throw a tantrum, or just ignore the facts – the choice is yours. But when you look at the evidence, there is no denying that David Wright has practically mirrored Derek Jeter in terms of overall production and value to the team during the regular season. In fact, Wright outproduced Jeter over a broad array of offensive and defensive measures.
Am I saying Wright should get the same accolades as Jeter who has been one of the best post season players in the history of the game? No, I’m not saying that.
But who’s to say that if Wright has outproduced Jeter as he has in the regular season, that he couldn’t have done the same or better if he was given the opportunity to play in 158 post season games and get 734 plate appearances like Jeter has? Are you familiar with the “Law of Averages”?
Recently, ESPN compared the two over the course of their regular season careers, which is the only fair comparison you can really make at this point:
Offense
Jeter: .313/.382/.448, .829 OPS, .365 wOBA, 1849 runs created, 116 RC/162 games
Wright: .301/.381/.506, .887 OPS, .376 wOBA, 936 runs created, 120 RC/162 gamesAny way you slice the numbers, Wright has been a little more productive at the plate, mainly due to his power advantage; Jeter’s career high in home runs is 24, but Wright has topped that five times. What’s maybe most surprising is that Wright only trails Jeter by 12 points in batting average. While Jeter has hit as high as .349, .343, .339 and .334, Wright has hit .300 in six of his eight full seasons.
What Jeter has, of course, is longevity and durability. He’s played 150+ games for 13 seasons; the only players with more are Pete Rose, Eddie Murray, Cal Ripken, Rafael Palmeiro, Brooks Robinson and Hank Aaron. Wright, however, has been durable as well. Other than 2011, when he suffered through a stress fracture in his back and missed two months, he’s played 160, 154, 160, 144, 157 and 156 games.
Overall, we’ll call this even since Wright hasn’t entered the down phase of his career. Obviously, he hasn’t had the career length of Jeter, but he’s been just as good.
But if you were to take their career WAR through their age 29 seasons, you would find that David Wright has outproduced Derek Jeter by .4 points.
Edge: Even
Defense
Jeter: Five Gold Gloves, minus-229 runs saved (via Baseball-Reference)
Wright: Two Gold Gloves, minus-16 runs saved (via Baseball-Reference)The defensive metrics have never liked Jeter’s defense, often rating him among the worst defenders in the game due to his lack range. You can complain all you want about defensive metrics, but they all agree that Jeter has long had the range of a three-toed sloth in the field. Now, the managers and coaches who vote on the Gold Glove Awards certainly would disagree with that assessment, since they’ve voted him the best shortstop in the American League five times. In 2005, Jeter rated at minus-27 defensive runs saved, one of the lowest totals of the past decade at any position AND WON A GOLD GLOVE.
Here’s the thing about the metrics: For the most part, they do agree with the common perception of the best fielders. Except, notably, with Jeter. Wright is probably a little overrated in the field as well. But he’s better than Jeter.
Edge: Wright
Peak Seasons
Jeter’s best seasons via bWAR: 7.8, 7.3, 6.4, 5.4, 4.9
Wright’s best seasons via bWAR: 8.1, 6.7, 6.7, 4.5, 3.8Jeter’s five-year total: 31.8. Wright’s five-year total: 29.8.
Edge: Jeter
So instead of going completely insane when the subject of Wright vs Jeter comes up, maybe you should take a deep breath and refer to the only tools we have available to do a fair comparison – a myriad of statistical evidence and the fact that going into their age 30 seasons, they have produced at near identical levels in the regular season.
We may never know what Wright could have done had he been afforded the opportunity to get 734 plate appearances in the post season rather than just 41, but the evidence is clear. In the regular season Wright (so far) has stayed on par with Jeter and even outpaced him both offensively and defensively in various areas.
Of course this is New York, and championships do matter. Wright never had the surplus of All Stars, Cy Young winners, Gold Glove winners, MVPs and future Hall of Famers that Jeter has always been surrounded with on the Yankees, only a non-realist would ignore that fact.
However, you can’t blame David Wright for something that was beyond his control. Instead look at guys in the $1,000 suits up in the owner’s box if you really feel the need to blame someone.
Original Post by Dan Valis
On Thursday, Mets’ owner Fred Wilpon came out and compared David Wright to the Yankees’ Derek Jeter, at least in terms of being the face of the franchise. You can read more thoughts on Wilpon’s comments from Adam Rubin at ESPN.
Here are the Mets owner’s comments:
“David is a unique player. He’s an All-Star,” Wilpon said Wednesday while touring Mets camp. “I think David is an All-Star in all things. He’s a great person. To me, he’s our Jeter. And I think you need a core. I don’t want to put it all on his shoulders. But he gets it. As far as I was concerned, he was not going anywhere.”
Fred’s comments flattered the star third baseman, but Wright felt he was a bit undeserving to be put into that category.
“In my eyes, that’s the ultimate compliment,” Wright said Friday about being linked to the Yankees’ shortstop. “I think it’s somewhat undeserving. But it’s humbling to be mentioned in the same sentence with him. I understand the rivalry within New York. At the same time, I don’t think you can give a player a bigger compliment.”
Here is Wright’s response to why he felt he did not deserve such high praise.
“The résumé kind of speaks for itself as far as what [Jeter's] done on the field. And, most importantly, he’s got a handful of rings. Literally, a handful,” said Wright, who has made one postseason appearance since his Mets debut in 2004. “I think that’s most important. All in all, like I said, it’s a tremendous compliment. I can’t think of a bigger compliment.”
It is very clear now that David Wright is guy. He has taken on that role at the highest level, as he is reaching out to players when they join the organization, as well as being the Mets face at media events. Wright will also probably be the Mets lone All-Star when the organization hosts the event later this summer.
What are your thoughts on the comments made by Fred Wilpon? Do you think David Wright is in the category of Derek Jeter when it comes to being the face of the Mets?
About the Author: Dan Valis
I am a staff writer for Mets Merized Online. I am a Mets team analyst with a focus on the minor league system, as well as the major league club. I am a lifelong New Yorker who was born and raised to be a Mets fan. The ups and downs of being a Mets fan is what makes following this team so much fun, but at times so frustrating. You can follow me on Twitter @BgAppleMetsTalk.
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it is very clear now that David Wright is guy.”
What was he before??????
Do you think David Wright is in the category of Derek Jeter when it comes to being the face of the Mets?”
No.. But i am glad he himself admitted he’s not deserving of something like that… Even on the mets best years in the past 10 years, they were label choke artist, not sure you wanna be level the derek jeter of a choking franchise who hasn’t won anything and has one merely postseason appearance in which he disappear. i am glad he knows he’s not even worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as he is… Pathetic and lame by wilpon to actually compare the 2
not his fault there were not more PS appearances. He did his job down the stretch both years. And in 2006, he had 1 very good series, and 1 poor series. And way to small of a SS to prove anything about the guy.
and Jeter? Mr. PS God? Thanks to having a large SS, not surprisingly, his PS numbers are almost exactly the same as his career regular season #s (slightly lower, .829 OPS vs. .838). With some very good series, and some terrible ones mixed in there. Pretty much like anyones career once you have enough games/ABs, it averages out to what you are.
this horrendous analysis could not be more wrong, more disrespectful, and just flat out inaccurate and disengenious. And also shallow.
All this guy does is list numbers without any human element or play attached to them. Forget about Jeter’s incredible clutch DEFENSE making great plays under the most extreme of circumstances and constantly getting the big hit when his teams need it the most.
Your post was simply wrong and uneducated and showed extremely little knowledge about the sport of baseball.
Van, i get you have no idea about baseball, but you are so disrespectful. how dare you compare a sure first ballot HOF with david wright? the utterly disrespect shown in this blog is just incredible. now we’re looking at numbers for 2 guys who are completely different… My goodness..
I will say, you core guys have a 100% track record on missing the point. Along with many other things that are much less desireable.
simply put, Jeter happens to be one of the rare players that has enough ABs in the post season to make it a legitimate large enough sample size to really say something, and offensively he is a mirror image of his career RS stats.
no YOU’RE the one missing the point. You couldn’t evaluate a player based not only on his abilities but intangibles that separate regular players from special athletes if you LIFE depended on it.
You only know numbers. You know more about math than baseball/athletic competition that’s for damned sure.
You cannot be serious, he does have as many at bats in the post season to have all the records etc, but he’s performed in the postseason from the get go, unlike your boy DW who in a 7 games series against the cards had ONE MERE RBI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Both of you just claimed he compared David Wright to Derek Jeter, that is not at all what he said. He said, in the scheme of the post-season JETER’s STATS are right around his career averages, which is IN FACT true.
He did not say either way whether there were intangibles in play and or what not. You are both right in reality. Yes, Jeter has had some very bad post-season series, and he’s had some great ones. Those great ones are usually the ones where he gets those clutch hits, big RBI’s, ect. ect. He also has some defensive intangibles.. I mean that back hand toss to Posada in that one play at the plate where the cut-off throw was horrible, is exactly what I’m assuming you mean by Intangibles.
But judging David Wright as being a complete joke in the playoffs is an unfair bias against him that you two most definitely have. I’d like to see him put up similar numbers at least ONE more time in the playoffs before I write him off as a choke artist. He surged in 2007 in September to try and get his team to the playoffs gong 6hr/20rbi .352/.432/.602.
Your response will probably be, “Yea, and in 2008 down the stretch? he sucked”
ON the contrary!
2008 September.
6hr/21rbi .340/.416/.577 – Still pretty impressive.
I’d like to point out that I do not think it is a fair comparison either. David Wright is not Derek Jeter.
But in terms of the face our franchise since his call-up, Yes, like Jeter, he has been.
^^
that’s the only way they are similar.
yeah sure as you look back NOW and add up numbers that you have no idea how they occurred. He left a LOT of runners in scoring position in 2008 and all he had to do was just get a couple more hits with runners in scoring position AT THE RIGHT TIME and the Mets go to the playoffs that year.
He failed. And he failed in the 2006 playoffs as well but I remember as clear as day even back then saying he was young, too early for the choking comparisons to A-Rod, and he still had time since it was only his first post season so he got a pass. But then 2007, & 2008 where both Reyes & Wright failed when we needed them the most.
Both of them. And that “both” includes Wright.
Once again, you are sitting here telling me a couple more hits, so you expect the guy to hit .450 for the month?
You do realize in 07 our only starting pitcher to have an ERA UNDER 4.45 for the month of september was Pedro.
Pedro – 2.57 5 starts
Glavine – 6.10 6 starts
Maine – 5.93 5 starts
Perez – 4.45 5 starts
Pelf – 4.88 4 starts (5 appearances)
It’s not all on hitting man, actually thinking back, the only REAL memory I have of September 07, is Guillermo Mota giving up every lead we developed lol
Look, I’m not saying David Wright is the Most Clutch Player in the league, all I’m saying is you can’t BLAME the collapses on him, he produced, at a very high level in the month of September. He takes a lot of the blame for stuff that’s not his fault, in that respect- Hell yea, he’s like derek Jeter. Jeter always got questioned about why they aren’t winning world series and ect ect. Wright gets the same heat, just for playoffs not World Series.
He didn’t even have a bad post-season. He had a bad series.
In that respect I can’t wait for David Wright to make the post-season again, so he can get a chance to show he can produce in the playoffs.
Hey I think DW is way over hyped. My post on him are consistent. I would not trash him but when someone over hypes him I try to get their blood pressure up.
I just knew you would be the first to respond.
Here is a thought since Wally is the next presumptive manager he may not like DW (alpha vs, Beta).. One plus for DW (fair and balanced) he adops well to all his managers.
I guarantee you one thing, if Jeter had spent his last 17 years with the Mets, you wouldn’t be talking Mr. clutch. You can take that to the bank. He would still be a HOF player, but the circumstances under which he existed with the Yankees in the 90′s and early 2000′s would have never existed with the Mets. Take Ordonez off the Mets in 2000 and put Jeter in there, the Mets would have still lost.
Hi Russell,
I guarantee you Jeter would not have spent his last 17 years with the Mets.
Sandy would have traded him for a prospect.
Hi Joey,
He should have traded David Wright for a ton of top 50 prospects. You have it backwards.
ADDENDUM:
To bad Reyes wasn’t traded for a top 25 prospect(s) or resigned,.
Rather…The Wilpons never would’ve made him the highest paid SS in baseball history…back in 2001…
u would’ve saw all sorts of ugly rumors surrounding Jeter on his way out…
really, the mets and red sox, have alot in common in terms of the way they turn the media against their players right as they are about to let them go
Just-Da-Damaja
Good observation. I agree, but Yankees with Jeter and Bernie Williams did not set the standard for respect of their players not resigned.
On Jeter during his last contract there was a lot of bad mouthing of him by Steinbrenner in the press showing his luxury style of living.
Do you think David Wright is in the category of Derek Jeter when it comes to being the face of the Mets?
To me yes in how he has represented the Mets throughout his career while wearing the uniform and the respect he has received throughout his career as one of the leaders while doing so by his teammates. I look forward to watching one of our own homegrown and one of the best 3B in MLB play in a Mets uniform over the coming years as the Mets try to win a W.S.
So, the whole jogging to first base, the shouting match with the manager… what? We’re supposed to forget that?
Fair enough… just wanted to include those tidbits so you don’t view him as a godsend as others do. Look, the guy is an above avg player, with great players around him he’s super good, but he’s not a winning baseball player in my eyes, he’ll have a nice career, good enough numbers, but he’s not a winner… He reminds me of tony romo. Good enough numbers, can’t win the big one, can’t come trough in the clutch; but again, will have good enough numbers to fool the avg fan into thinking he’s good…
And by average fan you mean the BBWAA who voted Wright 6th in last years NL MVP race when he most decidedly was not surrounded by great players.
Chase headley finished 5th? what’s your point? again, he had a superb first half (No Pressure), arguably motivated by contract extension he knew he might’ve received, next thing you know, he saw the mets were in playoffs contention , which means pressure and just like magic poof… his numbers disapear. 4th straight losing season in a row, 4th straight shitty second half from him, yeah. thanks for commenting… move it along…
Actually he was much better when the Mets were in contention than when they weren’t.
I would think anyone could easily see what the point is. Wright is a very good player, has been for some time and is very highly thought of by people who watch and write about this game for a living.
Then why do the mets have a losing record every year for the past 4 seasons??? he’s been the man since 2009 right? what’s the mets record with the ambassador as the main guy?
Even with your obsession with the guy, do you honestly think if they did not have DW the last 4 years, they would have won more games? Meaning he is the one somehow holding them back?
simply not having him? no…getting rid of wright is NOT addition by subtraction.
say u swing a 3-way trade and acquire a top OF who can hit HR and play good defense…
than actually yes, i do think the mets win more games in 2011-2012.
Doing that + keeping Reyes would in my opinion result in 2 years of wild-card chases, ( probably doomed by a bad bullpen )
basically, replace wright with a top OF and keep reyes with a crappy bullpen
…best case scenario is a heart break season…with the wilpons making money :-/
keep wright, lose reyes, and get no OF or bullpen….worst case scenario is a team out of contention…with the wilpons losing money
lol
the wilpons have done everything wrong here….and it will result in more years of poor attendance…which may expadite their exit from ownership here….
This is my light at the end of the tunnel …
I don’t want to be a nit-picker here… but this is something you would say.
Put Derek Jeter on the mets the last 4 years, we are still losing all 4 of those years.
Put David Wright on the Yankees the last 4 years, yankees are still winners those 4 years.
1 player doesn’t change anything in baseball. come on now. It’s a TEAM.
Hi Boomer,
Good words. David is a good, dependable third baseman. Not as great as some might make him out to be but certainly not the disappointment others say, either. How can one a lifetime .300 hitter be a real disappointment? Perhaps he’s disappointing those fans who expect a lot more out of him that he is actually capable of doing. Or maybe it has something to do with him being so popular that he has become the face of the club which many believe his performance does not merit receiving such accolade.
Yes, he only drove in six runs in his last 18 games of the 2007 season and had no home runs his last 14 games as well, but he also scored 14 which still comes up to him accounting for one run per game. He also hit .454 down that same stretch so it was not as if he didn’t get on base. What often goes unseen is his overall contributions during the course of nine innings.
His new contract? It’s a corporate investment as is any other contract signed between any other player and team. Baseball has become a multi-billion dollar business. Of course, it’s totally outrageous. No player deserves the type of money they get. A rookie makes well over $400,000 a year. And what about a high school student getting paid $2.1 million to sign a contract with the New York Mets? There is also a shortstop playing for another New York team who just sold his penthouse apartment at the Trump Tower for $15.5 million and owns a mansion in Florida. Name me how many doctors, nurses, teachers, police people and fire people can claim that?
So it’s not a matter of David being overpaid as it is the importance we as fans place on our sports teams and players. And the bottom line is that third base has not been a problem for the Mets since late July of 2004. That says it enough.
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/real-estate/jeter-sells-trump-world-tower-home-15-5m-article-1.1179642
Ok, the mets enter the season as a joke, pegged to be in last place by the end of the year, which means there were no pressure on most of the players to perform. but once all that changed, he went into the tank and so do most of them who were overachieving. hell, the FO didn’t even believe in wright and the mets, why should you? Don’t be naive and know, that just like any other player, he was motivated to get money, now that he got it, pressure is back on him to perform to that contract.. good luck with that!
Wright is the antithesis of Eli Manning. Good QB, great arm, intelligent, likable guy, etc.
But with Eli Manning, if there was ever an athlete you can use as an example of giving his best performances in the most dire of circumstances it’s Eli Manning. He’s unbelievable at that and that’s the reason the Giants have 2 Superbowls. Sure there were other factors like great catches, solid D allowing Eli time to throw but the bottom line is if not for Eli Manning giving legendary performances during the 4th quarter of very normal performance games the Giants don’t have 2 Superbowls.
Think of David Wright as the complete 180 of that. Shrinks when you need him the most.
Think of David Wright as the complete 180 of that. Shrinks when you need him the most.”
Bayonne, Tony Romo…..
Eli is a good QB but the clutch defense the Giants played in those two Superbowls is what got them the wins. The thing that shows Eli is not Mr. clutch is his inability to win big games and get the team in the playoffs when the Giants defense struggles. The Giant D is on, Eli is on, with out them he is not able to carry a team in the clutch consistently enough.
Russell, I could not agree more about Eli Manning, but try to tell that to a Giants Fan.
Uh huh,
And thank God for the guy that walked ahead of the game winning HR.
From now on we carry that guy who walked off the field instead of the person that actually cashes in the chips for the win.
The old “Rationalization” technique that Wright defenders all use as if people are not aware of the other Giant’s contributions that I referred to in my initial response.
No Eli, No Superbowls. That’s how sports is as unfair as it sounds to you.
It cannot be debated. Another case closed.
Not in 07.
Eli Manning didn’t win those super bowls, The New York Giants did.
You don’t go around saying Trent Dilfer won the Super Bowl when you know, it was the Ravens defense. This is literally Giants fans logic.. every other human being on the planet knows Eli did nothing in those Super Bowl Games, and he is nowhere near Elite.
Eli did nothing in those Superbowl games?
Folks, there’s your Wright defender. This conversation is now over.
lol You do realize ALL of your posts sound more absurd then that statement.
Okay yea I over exaggerating… but he game managed in 07, alot of people could have won that game, atleast in 12 he actually played good… but everyone that is not a New york Giants fan knows you can thank your defense more than anything.. denying that, is just childish.
and a great editor is nothing without a top-notch editing program i guess, right?
No Eli, No Superbowl.
lol you are not a rational human being, people like you shouldn’t be aloud to vote.
But oh wait, we live in America where our vote means nothing anyway hahaha
And you say Wright defender, as if I’m saying he is the Greatest 3B in the history of the world, and you are saying he is trash.
We are nitpicking about how good he played in September.. get over yourself man, you act like the king of the internet. I guess I should expect it though, your name says it all. Your not open for debate, or rationalized arguments, what you say goes. You do realize, with that mindset, Nazi Germany started right? lol
articles like this make me root for Jose Reyes and the Bluejays even more, not that i need anymore incentive to root for them.
Jose came up before David, it was always “as Reyes goes so do the Mets” and it’s Jose Reyes who’s image of sliding into 3B coming up clapping his hands is most reminiscent to me of the 2006-2008 era.
This is just so wrong and unfair on so many levels with this guy getting so many accolades for simply being the last player here from that time. Let’s celebrate players who perform WORST when you need it the most, horrendous with pressure,jog to 1B on routine ground balls, jogs home as slow as possible on extra base hits that he almost becomes a play, does not even run to 1B on dropped 3rd strikes and he’s done it with runners on 3B, average at 3B with last year being his best defensive season (of course, no pressure). But gets a lot of 3 for 4 days in romps.
You mean the image of Wright shaking his head and looking down, walking away from home plate, and tying or winning runs still on base aren’t reminiscent to you? Oh wait you said 2006-2008, not 2009-2020.
Jose came up before David, it was always “as Reyes goes so do the Mets” and it’s Jose Reyes who’s image of sliding into 3B coming up clapping his hands is most reminiscent to me of the 2006-2008 era.”
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Let’s celebrate players who perform WORST when you need it the most, horrendous with pressure,jog to 1B on routine ground balls, jogs home as slow as possible on extra base hits that he almost becomes a play, does not even run to 1B on dropped 3rd strikes and he’s done it with runners on 3B, average at 3B with last year being his best defensive season (of course, no pressure). But gets a lot of 3 for 4 days in romps.”
AND DEFINETELY ALL OF THAT^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Get with the program my friend. The new slogan is “As Collin Cowgill goes so do the Mets.”
Bayonne, and Alex.. are you too married.
It would make perfect sense, Alex is short for Alexis, and all his comments look precisely as I would imagine an unintelligent female fans to look.
I think I solved the big problem everyone.
RandomGuy: Comments like this aren’t good for business either though. If you simply do not respond to them, or write them as you would any other commentor – then they’d have less chances to get into a flame war with you
I could careless about a flame war, they are unintelligent and far from witty, I laugh at them and their sad attempts at humor, not with. no offense, but I suggest you and your other article contributors actually hold up your end of the deal. The MMO commenting Policy article? Yes, I mean that one, but as I’ve said before, and I will say again, as long as Alex, and Bayonne are aloud to continuously berate people with no punishment, I will GLADLY return the favor to them. Maybe you guys(the ones who run the site) should actually do something to them when they insult people, instead of saying something to me, when I’m the one who defends every other commenter besides those two…
So yea, if you want to ban me, then go ahead and ban me, but I’m not shutting up until I see they shut up, or are shut up by you guys.
Good day, sir.
And no offense, don’t ever reply to one of my comments like the one above(the one saying they are married) saying I need to stop, when I can go through 100 articles and see Alex and Bayonne saying whatever they want to anyone and everyone.
They can poke fun at ALL the OTHER people who check your blog, but we can’t do it back?
Pathetic.
Relax over there.
They’ve had their fair share of punishments.
All I am saying is (and I think I have a lot of experience in this subject with them) arguing with them non stop on the same subjects is a waste of your time. Today 2 of them claimed I said something I didn’t – so I posted exact quotes and shockingly didn’t get a response. That’s how I’d handle it if you or anybody else said the same thing about me.
You need to consider the source and that they will never see eye to eye with you on the Mets. Ever. So arguing with them to try and see your point of view is wasting your efforts. Just avoid conversing with them and exchange words with those who challenge you intellectually.
I have no say in whether they stay or go. So I am advising you as somebody who has been in your shoes before – don’t get worked up over them because that is their goal, and you’ll never get a point across to them in your life so stop trying.
With all due respect this is the 2nd time I’ve had a comment posted to me, when I am in fact only returning the insults they dish out.
That’s what’s unfair.
Like you said, as soon as you prove them wrong they stop, or turn to insults.
Whoever is in charge of that stuff, you might want to give them a heads up, cause I’ll continue to insult them every time I see them insult someone else, I could actually enjoy it.
I cam sum up every conversation you’re ever going to have with them
Wright is a choker
Reyes wasn’t
Alderson stinks
Omar didn’t
Sabr stats are stupid
Old stats are great
And if you’re lucky, they will mention the color of a players skin just to really bring the point home.
That’s it. That’s their platform. It’s like arguing with a hardcore right wing person about abortion or a hardcore left wing person on…abortion. You’re never going to have a discussion about it, it’s just going to go round and round and round until the next open forum.
atleast me and you are on the same page about the non-sense of their argument.
Now can we get on the same page about them being exceptions to the MMO Commenting policy? sorry lol
Random, I promise you the best way to clean up (oops) their act and to focus on the commenting policy is NOT to resort to the very same tactics as them. All you’ll end up doing is throwing wood on the fire. Why bother? Wouldn’t you rather spend your time at MMO engaging people who want to converse with you like an adult? So the people who want to discover their inner 9 year old try to come after you, simply do not engage. It works.
I will also promise you this – nobody and I mean nobody gets more from them than I do. They used to spend their days in the chat room talking about me. And it’s not easy to sit by and let their garbage go unanswered but I have noticed the more I ignore them – the more I enjoy my time at MMO. It’s taken me almost 4 years to say that lol, so trust me it isn’t easy
If everybody they insulted or tried to bully ignored them, they’d be stuck texting Manti Teo’s girlfriend for conversation because nobody else will engage them.
Those guys get on everybody’s nerves and from what I’ve read they have been banned and called out publicly here by the owner many times. No need to bash the site. Unlike MetsBlog the writers here can actually write and use words that have more than 7 letters. They don’t post pictures of David Wright or an 86 Met 20 times a month or bore us with with daily meaningless videos or conduct interviews a 15 year old could do better job of. They don’t say he has “incredible” or “electric” stuff about every Mets pitcher either. This site is so far superior to Metsblog in terms of quality that you don’t even mind putting up with the two distractions. At least that’s how I feel about it. If you focus on the content rather than the peanut gallery you would have a much better experience in my opinion. But if you want to engage them, then don’t complain about them becuase you give them what they want – attention.
I agree with you, its not so much the fact engaging them, its the fact that they don’t care who you are, they will throw insults at you and berate you.
I didn’t know they been banned and all that multiple times, as I’ve said I’m new. I only have what I can go by, and that is that I found this site about 3 months ago, and have seen nothing but what I describe from them as commenters.. and when I reply I’m the one who gets specifically named. That’s all I’m saying. I genuinely enjoy the articles posted here.
well, then we finally have a culprit for missing the PS in 2007 and 2008. In September of both years, the Mets went exactly how Reyes did. Down the crapper.
Thank you for clearing that up.
and your buddy Wright STUNK up both stretches as well. In 2007 along with Jose and especially in 2008 regardless of what his September “numbers” look like.
I will never, ever forget and have mentioned it here numerous times in the past that during that 2008 stretch i was right here in this very site in the chatroom and I will NEVER forget BrooklynsOwn and myself BOTH cognizant of the fact that David Wright has around 120 or so RBIs coming into September and the fact that he left an enormous amount of runners in scoring position on base that he should have had about 140 RBIs or so that year if he simply was able to drive in runs when the team needed it the most.
I know a lot of clowns will say “duh, well what do you want him to do he had 120 RBIs that year he can’t do it all” and my response to that nonsense is well he had 120 or so before Sept started and he simply failed in the clutch that month. The fact that he should have had 140 or so RBIs doesn’t mean i’m asking him to be superhuman. It means that if he had simply gotten hits when the Mets needed it the most he would have had even more RBIs. That’s it.
But i guess van likes his white guys.
How could Wright have 120 rbi’s coming into september, if he had 20 in 07(107) and 21 in 08(124)
meaning.. he had EXACTLY.
87 in 2007 entering September.
103 in 2008 entering September.
And you expect us to take you serious, why?
oooo, the “Numbers” aren’t exact. And that’s breaking a commandment in your world. Never mind the original topic, who needs that.
But you know what? For your sake I’ll change the wording:
Instead of saying Wright had 120 or so RBIs coming into September when he should have had 140 or so. I’ll say Wright had 100 RBIs or so coming into September when he should have had 120 or so.
I guess that changes everything, right? I guess that changes the original argument right?
I can make that argument for every single major league baseball player. Your point is lost.
The point is your recalling stats like you know them, but you don’t. I notice, you ignored my post about how bad our pitching was.
Please don’t ever leave Bayonne, the idea of that frightens me, cause in the real world, when you claim to know something, and you are completely inaccurate it can end up being alot worse for you.
No, the point is Wright choked down the stretch in 2007 & 2008. That’s what we are talking about.
Yes, and you are attempting to recall, INCORRECT stats, about that. I already posted his numbers for the months, you just moved down to a different post after you realized you lost that argument.
How do you expect a guy to hit .450 and drive in 45 runs a month?
You would have to a crackhead to expect that.
C’mon RandomGuy… get with the program. Wright put up a line of .394/.516/.657/1.172 in August of 2007 then in September he DECLINED to .352/.432/.602/1.034. The superclutch would not DECLINE in September, yet Wright got worse. Just look that that stat line – he was making outs more than half the time. And here at MMO we’ve established that walks are meaningless and OBP is only matters to goons – so lets look at that batting average – .352!! That’s nearly a 65% no hit rate!
Also what your saying is.. that basically it doesnt matter if wright hit 1.000 for September with 20 homers and 60 rbi’s. If we didnt make the playoffs, it wasnt good enough?
Lets go to your next logical step, and compare it to football.. (wait.. what?? football.. oh okay, I forgot nothing with you is logical)
If a QB is 120/120 with 1200 yards and 16 touchdowns 0 interceptions in his last 4 games of the season, but his defense gave up 60 points each game, and they lost all 4, that QB didn’t do enough right?
Which begs the question, who kept them in contention from april through august???????????? Thanks for commenting………….
Wright, Beltran, Reyes, Delgado (though no so much with Delgado in 2007), Santana and some of the other pitchers were pretty good.
But if we want to play silly “need him the most” game fans seem to care so much about here and only focus on Sept, Beltran, Wright, Santana, Alou (in 2007), Delgado and some others held up their end during those Septs – Reyes and several of the pitchers did not.
Ever notice how it’s always Wright supporters who don’t believe in clutch and make fun of things like premium performance when team needs it the most? They rationalize their love for the guy like that.
Didn’t wright hit 243 with RISP in 2008? and had the most opportunity to drive runs in baseball??? Yet he finished with 124 RBI, imagine how many games we lost because he didn’t show up from april through august then… imagine how many more RBI he would’ve had. you’ve got to be kidding me! He’s a choker, and in 2008 in the biggest game of the year, he folded so bad it’s not even fair to mention a cheap suit alongside his foldness…
“Didn’t wright hit 243 with RISP in 2008? ”
Yes, but here is Wright in late and close situations .286/.412/.464. According to you and Bayonne, runs in the first inning don’t count anyway. He also had a .263 BABIP, which shows some crappy luck.
“Yet he finished with 124 RBI, ”
Wait, are you saying that RBIs are not some great stat that tell the whole story? That we need context and knowledge of the particulars? I think this is the point Bayonne calls you a moron and threatens you and Vinny comes in tell you how unfair you are being.
” imagine how many games we lost because he didn’t show up from april through august then”
April .281/.417/.531 4 HR
May .287/.364/.530 7 HR
June .279/.350/.413 4 HR
July .317/.431/.574 5 HR
August .310/.370/.575 7 HR
So, I’m not sure where you get “not showing up” from.
“He’s a choker, and in 2008 in the biggest game of the year, he folded so bad it’s not even fair to mention a cheap suit alongside his foldness…”
So, one at bat defines a career? Funny how a weak pop up in the bottom of the 9th in Game 6 of the World Series gets forgotten. Funny how looking at a curve ball for strike three with the tying and winning run on base in the bottom of the 9th in Game 6 of the NLCS gets ignored.
Now comes the part where you say nasty things at me and use text speak but don’t address any of my points.
Biggest game of the year he folded like a cheap suit.
In the same thread you call out people for not knowing baseball and yet leave out most of the facts.
Reyes ended the 8th with a runner on 3rd and softly grounded out to end the inning – game still tied.
9th inning – Murphy triples, then Wright K’s for the first out, which means two more batters had a chance, all the next guy had to do was easy as a fly out, so he could tag up and score, didn’t even need a hit, but WRIGHT folded like a cheap suit, and the inning ended with the game still TIED.
The bullpen then proceeds to give up THREE runs and lost the game, but WRIGHT folded like a cheap suit, and you haters keep preaching about learning the game. Facts aren’t really necessary.
In 2008 the bullpen blew 29 (twenty nine) saves, but Wright folded like a cheap suit. Oh wait I can guess what comes next “but Wright had plenty chances to get the job done but didn’t”
You guys are too much, really keep calling out all the “Wright supporters” while you’re all the first to post your hate any time something good is said about the guy.
Last week when MLB network aired the top 3B, he was in the top 3 from ACTUAL guys that played the game, but I guess that’s wrong, unfair and just bs too right?
Yeah, articles about a 6 time all star on the my team always pisses me off enough to root for Jose Reyes and the Blue Jays now.
‘Yeah, articles about a 6 time all star on the my team always pisses me off enough to root for Jose Reyes and the Blue Jays now.’
This.
Although I am hoping to see Dickey have another CY type year.
So you see no difference between Reyes grounding out with a runner on 3rd in the 8th inning….and Wright striking out after starting a count 3-0…and swinging at ball 4-5 and 6….with 0 outs…with a runner on 3rd…and Beltran and Delgado coming after him in the order…
then for the next 3 seasons…Wright pretty much fails in clutch situations, enough that the Cubs walk Lucas Duda to load the bases with 2 outs to face Wright….a week later the Padres do the same with Angel Pagan.
Reality is…Wright suffers from anxiety issues in clutch situations. This has developed over a matter of years…I thought Reyes suffered from it as well…but no where near on the level of Wright.
In my opinion, this is due to the enormous pressure of being the face of a franchise, esp when you have superior, more established veteran players around you getting less attention.
Wright would be better served as being a piece of a puzzle instead of the guy on the cover of the box.
“Good player, nice kid but he’s no superstar”
Clearly I know the difference JDD – the point is, that there is a group of self proclaimed know it alls, that repeat that instance, and never ever mention all the details, selective memories much?
Why is it, every single time a mention of Wright, that particular game is brought up, but never the fact that, while he did fail (never once was that ever disputed) in that case, never a mention of they had a 4 run lead, and the great Oliver Perez couldn’t get out of the 5th inning and gave up 5 runs. Which put the games in the hands of the bullpen which was horrendous that year, remember 29 blown saves?
How about the fact that the bullpen then gave up 3 runs in the top of the 10th? NEVER mentioned.
Lets keep talking about that K and put the blame of a season on Wright, let’s forget all the other variables that happened that night and entire season.
Talk about agenda driven. The horse is dead already. Selective memories with twisted “so called facts”. Maybe one of these so called experts can show me one player in the history of baseball that got a hit 100% of the time in clutch situations, been a fan for over 40 years now, I don’t remember one. NOT ONE.
probably b/c unlike David, Ollie got beat up more than a pinata…
people beat up David on this site b/c he is put on a SUPERSTAR pedestal and has been on that SUPERSTAR pedestal for almost 10 years now.
ON THE FIELD – David Wright is a good player who plays good ( not great ) defense, and goes on really hot torrid streaks, and really cold streaks… and often suffers from poor performance ( which i attribute to anxiety issues) in clutch situations
Off the field – David Wright , is good looking, affable, marketable and masters the media perfectly by never really saying anything controversial.
thats david wright. no more, no less
LOL at the “need him the most” nonsense. C’mon if you are going to complain about such silly things – at least bring up Beltran as the guy to praise, not Reyes!!
“When we need him the most” is silly and subjective and how a player performs overall is more important. Reyes was a very good Met. But if we are going to cherry pick important times and only judge a player on those – Sept 2007 and 2008 are among those that jump out more than any as times when we “needed” our players “the most”. And Reyes was absolutely brutal both those months.
And if we are going to mock/criticize guys for doing well in going nowhere seasons (as you were doing so about Wright’s 2012) – should we then also slam Reyes for having by far his best offensive year in 2011? A year where the team was lousy and going nowhere?
well in 2011 Reyes could have been motivated the same way WRight was motivated in 2012.
Contract. Both of them.
And yes they BOTH came up small when we needed them the most. And if you you fail to want to comprehend the concept of being able to help your team the most than that tells me you have no inate experience or knowledge of what athletes feel in pressure situations. You know nothing about it. You’re just a saber gooner who thinks the game is nothing but numbers and cannot comprehend the human element that steers those numbers you pray to.
so if u go 1 for 4 with a walk…but the 1 hit u got was in the 7th inning…and the 1 walk u got was in the 9th inning…in a tie game…with a runner on 2nd…with 2 outs…
did u just perform in the clutch ? YES
did that WALK count towards your batting average with runners in scoring position…NOPE !!!
sorry pal…but u have to WATCH the games…
I can tell u that in clutch situations, with runners on base…REYES was way too jumpy…way too anxious…not a good clutch hitter…
in 2011, Hudgens helped him with that…and he calmed the f*ck down…put in his best work…
in 2012, David Wright had a near replica 1st half of Jose Reyes in 2011…and like Reyes, in clutch situations, David was much calmer…much more patient, and performed better…
in the 2nd half, David got away from what made him successful….his K rate went way up…his patience went back down…
If u don’t like David Wright, then why be a Mets fan? There’s absolutely no point, he’s the guy, he truly represents the Mets today. Reyes is gone, Beltran is gone, there’s only David. If u don’t like David then u don’t like the Mets, plain and simple
I totally disagree. I root for the Mets because of Sandy Alderson.
We could have a team with 13 Collin Cowgills and 12 Aaron Laffeys and you can cut me open and I bleed Blue and Orange.
If u don’t like David then u don’t like the Mets, plain and simple”
Out of all the asinine comments i’ve seen here, you my friend, just receive the award for the most asinine commetn in the history of the blog… ….
Alex it is literally impossible to remove that award from you. It might as well be a tattoo, it is going nowhere fast.. You will always own that award.
I am the Mets.
I am the straw that stirs the drink
I am the cup
I am the drink.
David Wright and the 39 other players are merely the ice cubes
Sincerely,
Sandy Alderson
Sounds a lot different than what Fred had to say about David two years ago:
“a very good player” but “not a superstar”.
… or maybe, Fred doesn’t think Jeter is a superstar either?
^^^^^^^
THIS!!!! Exactly Joey D.
I was waiting for someone to mention it…..We already know the 1st statement from Wilpon about Wright was his real opinion….They have no choice but to pump Wright up in the eyes of the public since they have no one else to promote and they have to justify that contract they gave him…
David Wright is his mothers Superstar as she and he reiterated after Fred’s initial statement
Bah…I am not a Jeter fan. Never was, never will be.
No denying though he’s been the face of the Yankees franchise for the past 15 years.
DWright’s response to Wilpon’s praise shows one reason why he’s now the ‘ambassador’ of the Mets franchise. He’s always going to be politically correct when dealing with the media – much like Jeter is. Past that, you really can’t compare the two.
Bunch of jerks i have to put up with. Now Eli is not important towards the Giant’s Superbowl wins.
It’s now to the point that all kinds of crazies who love numbers rationalize away on anything they possibly can. Pathetic.
I remember you going on a long rant about how inconsequential a QB is to a receiving touchdown. You claimed it was all on the receiver who caught it and when I brought up the QB throwing the ball, the line stopping the pass rush and the other receivers spreading the defense, you blew up.
find that and paste it here. I want to see the context.
It doesn’t matter the context, you can constantly contradict yourself all day long if we going into all this insane detail.
Which you do, you do contradict yourself all the time, however the people you argue with always have the same side… weird how that works..
the context DOES matter and especially with the internet where it’s much easier to twist someone’s words around. And considering the element I’m dealing with I want to see the context before I can say I said those things. I’m a straight shooter so i want to see it.
People like YOU and the other guy, the internet is the strength behind your argument because in real life/real time you guys would get destroyed.
Dude, I’m blowing your arguments out of the water with FACT. If this was a face-to-face argument, I would literally pull these FACTs up on my smartphone(you know what those are right?) and destroy you, and which you would begin berating me, I’d call you pathetic and an idiot, you would probably say you’ll knock me, and then i’d say let’s go outside then, before you left in an ambulance…
please man, I got bigger balls in person than I do on the internet, and I would have no problem shredding you apart in a live debate about the mets, because unfortunately for you, I know my shit, I don’t make it up while im typing…
(i hope you dont get all butthurt about my story telling skills)
No Eli, No Superbowls
Orangutan.
The funny thing about your response here is, You say I would get destroyed in a real life arugment, I tell you why i wouldn’t, and you reply with that? lol clown shoes bro, go try them on for size.
Well, ya, because in an argument in a bar, a guy like you can just yell crazy nonsense at the top of his lungs and no one can stop and fact check you. Your wall of nonsense just wears everyone else down. You don’t so much “win” as you do just exhaust the other person.
But here, we can take every bit of bull crap and show you why its wrong. Here, you are directly confronted with your misinformation. You can’t use speed or volume to your advantage.
and no i don’t contradict myself all the time. That is just a flat out lie by YOU, whoever the hell you are so your credibility is worth crap now too. Sure, people change their opinions over time but that’s something else.
You’re just angry i poked holes in all of your stupid comments. But to be honest you making light of Eli Manning’s contribution to the Giants speaks volumes about the disingenuous, rationalizing, numbers cruncher you are where accountability never exists. Only reasons that explain away things. Accountability? Never in your world
Dude, I’ve watched you contradict yourself more than 5 times in the 2 weeks I’ve been commenting, you have the intelligence of an Orangutan, and trust me, I could careless if I have your credibility, you proudly rep Bayonne, what does your opinion actually matter??? lol
And, actually I dont crunch numbers for football, ever.
So, wrong again.
shocker, must be used to that though by this point in your life I guess right?
It was in the shoutbox. The context was you going off about how base runners are unimportant to RBIs and that only the guy who gets the run scoring hit counts. You then compared the hitter to a wide receiver catching a touchdown and said no one else made the touchdown happen. I even mentioned David Tyree’s catch and how Manning broke 3 tacklers to make a great throw and how guys like Toomer drew the safeties so Tyree had a 1 on 1.
And then you acted as your usual charming self.
Right. You were honest (i think) and in that context yes I agree with it.
That’s completely different to the point i’m making now which is as a whole.
That was a play. So yes, I’m happy you appear to remember it perfectly. So no gripe here.
No its not! How can you say that they don’t matter on plays, but then say they are the only reason when their team wins.
oh, and whose credibility is shot?
Not that I ever actually cared about your opinion.
In that instance I compared the wide Receiver to a hitter yes.
But overall? No Eli, No Superbowls
You’re lost dude. Go live in rationalization, it’s your strength and solace.
I’m lost?
You do realize what Rationalize means right?
Eli was nothing more than a game manager is 07, saying differently tells me you know about sports in general(not just what I already know you know nothing about, which is baseball).
I’ll admit he played very CLUTCH at the end of the season last and on the super bowl run in 12.
However, when Eli is not playing clutch, he’s pedestrian, at best.
but wait, let me guess Eli is elite, right?
Eli is the only QB that can miss the playoffs and play as pedestrian as he does in the regular season and still be called Elite.
When Eli gets hot, yes, I can give him credit.. but when he’s cold… he’s reaaaal cold.
What’s really funny Bayonne is, as soon as I proved you wrong on the Mets 07′ September collapes, you start going off about Eli and the Giants.. and don’t even bother responding to that post because you know you got rocked.
This is a Mets blog, stop with the Eli talk. football’s over now.
Either way, I’ll always debate that Eli isn’t elite, so you won’t win, and I have the best arguments, I know I’ll win, I’ve already swayed an ESPN football analyst with my reasoning, and even he said, Ok, he’s not elite, but he can be very clutch” at which, I agreed.
There are two know-it-all loudmouths that the Mets Universe could do without, Bayonne from MMO and Chesty from MB. Between both those arrogant arses they make travailing both sites nauseating. And the worst part is that they are complete opposites, they never shut up, and they don’t know shyte.
You know what I could go for?
A discussion about David Wright in 07 and 08, being clutch and sprinkle in some Jose Reyes stats. We never see those anymore you know?
………………………………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………………………………………..
lol can you just ban Bayonne. the guy was proven wrong at the top of the comments, so he starts the same argument on the bottom. Guys bad for business, just sayin. Hes the kinda fan I don’t even want to be associated with.
Ya, those are as rare as those scintillating Minaya vs Alderson discussions that totally go new directions every time.
I’ll say one thing about David which I think places him above Derek in at least one way.
David would not have bowed out of the all-star game, especially if he was voted as a starter by the fans. Derek used the excuse of being emotionally stressed out from getting that 3,000th hit but he wasn’t so exhausted that he couldn’t have a night out on the town during the break instead. He also kept his $500,000 bonus for being voted by the fans that was part of his Yankee contract.
Would have been nice gesture to donate that half million to a worthy cause instead of pocketing it for himself since he didn’t feel like going – whatever one wants to say about Jose, he made sure he was at the game despite being on the disabled list because he felt so honored.
Derek might be a good guy but that was not a class act on his part.
I didn’t know that about Jeter, and I can’t stand the guy, now I hate him even more.
More comedy…..
Derek is the modern day Joe DiMaggio. Two ingrates.
The ASG stuff isn’t really that big of a deal IMO. As far as Jeter-drama and “class” goes, the way he treated A-Rod was worse IMO. His thin-skinned ego got bruised by comments A-Rod made way back in 2000 (which weren’t THAT bad) and he treated him terribly for years after they became teammates – so much so that Cashman had to tell him to cut it out. I know A-Rod isn’t exactly the most beloved figure in baseball among fans or his peers, but it seems Mr. Perfect/”The Captain” should’ve controlled his ego a bit better once they became teammates
These exchanges are hilarious. All that’s missing is the hairdryers, cat-eye sunglasses, gum-chewing, whiny voices, and you got the picture. And the guy trying to be the voice of reason? This is funny.
Bayonne has probably never laughed a day in his life. Yet he finds the exchanges hilarious. He must have a newly developed sense of humor.
Frankly Bayonne, Alex68, Maniac and sometimes, Metsie, are disrespectful to Joe DeCaro. They ignorantly hijack threads simply to spill their venom because ‘they can’. They apparently give little thought to the fact that saying the same thought 100+ times is not any better than saying it once and giving other views a chance to be stated without harassment. I expect they will take umbrage at the simple truths of this post.
This site is indeed becoming ridiculous!
You guys act like a bunch of school girls trying to scratch each others eyes out. (No offense to womanhood here)
I am going to elect myself the Commissioner of the David Wright issue and my edict is binding……
David Wright is and has been the face of the Mets franchise for a number of years.
David Wright has been a good soldier for the Mets since day one
David Wright has been a very good player for the Mets over his career
David Wright has not been as productive at Cit Field as he had been at Shea
David Wright has carried the team on his back many times but has also slumped at times.
David Wright has played hurt and often when he should have taken a day off
And finally……
David Wright is David Wright…he is not Albert Pujols and not.Derek Jeter or any other MLB player.
For all of you haters and guys who want to compete against each other…..why not get together on opening day at Citi Field and have a pissing contest
For those of you that can’t move forward and use this site for information as to the team’s progress and it’s future…….GROW UP!
Well said, Sir.
NO middle ground and rational thought are not allowed when discussing politics, religion, Wright, Reyes, Omar or Sandy.
Lol, very well played.
Wright has no reason to be humbled by this comparison. His numbers have made him one of the best players in baseball and are better than Jeter’s. Jeter had the benefit of being born into baseball with the proverbial silver spoon in his mouth. Strong teams and lineups with the biggest payrolls. Many steroids enabled teammates. And, above all, Mariano Rivera!
Without Mariano, how many titles do you think the Yankees win since 1996? Even with all those juiced players and money, I would say maybe only 1. Two if they are lucky. Put Jeter on the Pirates and he’s not nearly the celebrated or rich player he is now. Jeter is one of the most overrated players of his generation. If you have any doubts, just ask his peers, who said this in an SI player poll. So Wright should not shy away from any comparisons like that. He is a big star in his own right.
David is a star player,could he be a HoF’er some day? Maybe,depending how his career plays out. In all honesty,I believe Jeter is pretty overrated,and sure,he’s a first ballot HoF’er. The sour apple Alex is being in regards to Wright is just leaving a bad taste in my mouth. In terms you can understand for Wright haters:
David Wright IS the face of the New York Mets franchise,and will be for a long time,whine and complain all you want about it,doesn’t change a single thing. You’re seriously just wasting your breath.
I thought we moved on from this… Let me make it even clearer
Derek Jeter HOF
David Wright Good Player
If you don’t feel you can engage in and keep up with a legitimate, logical baseball discussion, then by all means move on. But it’s not necessary for you to attempt to keep others from doing so.
Derek Jeter on any other team besides the Yankees= very, very good player
David Wright= very, very good player
as competitors they’re not even close. Like you hear about good or great actors making everybody else around them better actors Derek Jeter is more likely to raise the level of play of those around him than a David Wright.
No statistics needed. The silliness and rationalization of somehow trying to convince yourselves of Wright’s abilities to Jeter’s is really embarrassing.
You ever think maybe, it was all those players that helped Jeter play to that level? That core of players from 96-00 left, and Jeter couldn’t finish anymore? But Jeter’s team changed around him, you are right… and leader he his should have led them to some more WS rings.
Once again, not hating on derek jeter, just playing devils’ advocate, because for you, we need one.
Connor, i like you, but you gotta stop.. You can’t say that, the man keeps going strong even at age 37. Wright is breaking down already at 30, hasn’t won shit, his best years are clearly behind him, how can you sit there and say he’s a very, very good player? On what planet? Since 2009 his stats doesn’t seem to favor your comment stop it.. I get you like the guy, but to diminish what jeter’s done just because he plays with the yankees is absurd, the man has been MONEY when it matter the most, Postseason, a place where wright shrinked to say the least,
Wright is breaking down?
Want to back that up with facts?
“Wright is breaking down already at 30″
Just had one of his best years
“hasn’t won shit”
What is this basketball?
“Postseason, a place where wright shrinked to say the least”
Two series. Not even. He hit well in the first. Jeter is in the playoffs EVERY YEAR. Even he has had some bad playoff series…
“Since 2009 his stats doesn’t seem to favor your comment”
Not counting 2011 (playing really hurt all year), his 2009-2010 numbers are still pretty damn impressive. He still put up some of the best numbers from a third baseman.
For once will your hatred for the guy stop getting in the way with facts? Breaking down? That’s the funniest lie.
Comparing post season and not winning? Seriously do you think Jeter got to the post season on his own? What planet do you live on?
Jeter had more good post seasons than bad, but he also had a few that he stunk up the place, so bid friggen deal, Wright had ONE bad post season series, you don’t talk about the other series, just the bad one.
Ok, Let me shut all y’all up, Wright’s second halves since 2009″
2009: 279 BA 5 HR 28 RBI 781 OPS
2010: 244 BA 15 HR 44 RBI 771 OPS
2011: 272 BA 8 HR 43 RBI 780 OPS
2012: 258 BA 10 HR 34 RBI 750 OPS
There. that’s what i mean by breaking down. every second half the man breaks down, apologies if i came across wrong, i guess i should’ve used disapearing.
So a 143 OPS+ is “breaking down” while a 114 OPS+ is “going strong”?…interesting. And even going back to 2009 and including a couple of down years – Wright still posted 130 OPS+ over that time span – better than Jeter’s career norms. Wright’s much maligned 2009 season is probably the year that most closely matches a typical Jeter year.
Wright 2009: .306/390/.447/.837 (124 OPS+);
Jeter career avg: 313/.382/.448/.829 (117 OPS+)
Look Jeter’s been good for a long time, and he bounced back to have a solid year in 2012 after a couple down ones. I hope we have some players that can match his longevity. But its silly to fawn over Jeter’s individual seasons and rip Wright’s
Some of you are just insane. first of all, jeter is not a power middle of the lineup type hitter like wright is, jeter’s game is different than wright’s. why don’t you try comparing wright with guys like arod or even miguel cabrera? Wright and jeter are not in the same planet in terms of clutch, please people, stop this insanity… Different players, Different clutch genes…
Why would I compare him to A-Rod and Cabrera when the conversation is about Jeter and Wright? I agree Wright hasn’t been the dominant hitter A-Rod and Cabrera have been, but that’s not what people were talking about.
As far as Jeter not being a “power middle of the lineup” guy – that’s sorta the point. If he was capable of being a “power middle of the lineup” guy he would be a “power middle of the lineup” guy.
2/3 the hitter for 2/3 the price?
When you’re right, you’re right, Joe.
Well done and well stated. Both Jeter and Wright are great players, tremendous ambassadors for their teams, and class acts. Wright never got the opportunity to perform on the grandest stage of all, but as you point out you can blame the Wilpons for that. I’m hoping Wright will get that chance in 3-4 of the next 8 years.
Blaming the Wilpons for Wright not being able to perform on the biggest stage of all?
Holy Christ. This is beyond smh……….
You’re branding Wright forever a failure because he had one bad postseason series? Really? I’m not saying Jeter isn’t clutch because he is, but even he has had 11 playoff series in which he hit .250 or below. Don’t judge Wright on 7 games
Look, i gave him a pass because it was his first posteason, it was the ability to make excuse for unclutch performances down the road. and then… that famous strike out against the cubs cemented to ME and many others, how little this guy’s balls are in big spots.. Moving on
You never give him a pass because you bring it up almost every day.
3 years Connor. Not just 2006.
September 2007:
.340/.416/.577
September 2008:
.352/.432/.602
Go even deeper
Last ten games of 2007
.409/.469/.455
Last ten games of 2008
.444/.543/.677
But the big one I tell you, the big one. You define careers by the big one. That’s why every one here views Beltran as a choker, because he struck… wait? No one does? Well then. I have no idea.
Connor those stats don’t tell the truth. You could look back years later and look at the numbers and get misled. But that guy left so many men on during big spots during those games, especially 2008 and no 3 for 4 in a romp is going to cover that.
I’ve been seeing those stupid slash lines for years here and they don’t mean squat unless you actually saw the game play out. There’s nothing there that can tell you which ABs were more important than others regardless if he goes 4 for 5 during a blowout or not.
You were around 8-11 or so during those years so I highly doubt you could process that during that time or how much you were aware of baseball back then.
This is the problem Bayonne, proving you wrong doesn’t matter to you. Whether you are right or wrong, you just continue the same. LOL the guy hit phenomenal the last 2 months of the season, just stop man.
I love that, their were 8 other starting players in the line-up and the only person who gets blamed is David Wright.
Read a book man, its a team sport, not a David Wright sport.
might have been able to ourscore the Mets BP those 2 years if the lead-off guy had actually been on base more often for all those hits.
last 10 games (crunch time, fighting for survival) in 2007: .176 BA, .250 OBP. 2008: .200/.256.
and 2007. month of September, .205/.279.
and still, with the middle of the order hitting, they still couldn’t overcome the pitching giving every freaking lead back.
This 1 million times.
So, Bayonne, whens your blame going to be on Jose?
or Beltran for staring at strike 3.
You dont make any sense man.
Wait, so can wright thank the wilpons for signing beltran and bringing delgado? Because, it seems to me, wright’s best years were when those 2 were part of the lineup.. SMH
That’s not entirely true Alex. In 2005 Wright was just in his 1st full season in the majors and he had an awesome 1st season. That was Beltran’s 1st year with the Mets and he wasn’t all that good, Delgado wasn’t there yet and Reyes was okay but nothing special in 05. Other than Cliff Floyd there really wasn’t anybody else in the lineup and Wright put up his usual 300/390/520 25 and 100. 2009 with nobody in the lineup he still hit for a high average and a ton of doubles only the long ball wasn’t there but a still very solid 830 something OPS and 2010 he carried the team in the first half to abot 11-12 games over 500 with not a lot of help around him. Delgado was absolutely terrible in 2007 and that was Wright’s best season. Last year he was amazing in the first half and again nobody else really contributed a whole lt. You can say that about any good hitter, putting up better numbers with big time hitters around him. Saying he only put up numbers because of who was around him isn’t all that accurate.
Then why don’t you congratulate the Wilpons for 1986?
You know that you’re not going to get any argument for me on this!
Does anyone here believe that the Mets would have won any championships here if we had Jeter instead of Wright?
And does anyone here think the Yankees would have done any worse with Wright instead of Jeter?
Answer is no.
Nice job on this post.
Yes. Replace Wright with Jeter OFFENSIVELY from 2006-2008 and this team advances all 3 years and you KNOW it.
Of course this is only hypothetical because it could never happen since Jeter and Reyes are both SS
Maybe Jeter could have come in from the bullpen, oh wait, that had Nothing to do with the failures of those years, it was only DWright, not hitting a game winning hit every single time the bullpen blew a game, even if he didn’t have an at bat after they gave up the lead, still Wright’s fault.
I think Kay, you nailed Bayonne’s logic on the head.
“maybe you should take a deep breath and refer to the only tools we have available to do a fair comparison – a myriad of statistical evidence and the fact that going into their age 30 seasons, they have produced at near identical levels in the regular season.”
The silliness continues. The site continues to embarrass itself with these ridiculous comparisons and about the comment I quoted? Statistics are the only tools to needed to do a fair comparison of Jeter & Wright? Did you forget the level of the competitiveness? The ability to do things offensively and defensively during the biggest moments of important games time and time and time again?
And you also make it sound like Jeter’s years of success should be attributed more to the level of teammates he’s had over the years instead of attributing Jeter’s success to Jeter! At what times during those years can you tell that maybe he raised the level of competitive performance around him just by Jeter being himself? That never gets taken into account?
So just statistics are used to compare the two and you don’t want to consider the human element to each of their games? If so then maybe you can find some common denominators statistically, but certainly not as an athlete and not as a competitor
Jeter stares pressure in the face and Wright blinks like a deer in headlights.
Last night on WABC Rob Powers, towards the end of an interview, asked David Wright to look right into the camera and tell the fans what they should believe in about this year’s squad or something to that effect. And Wright NEVER looked into the camera to respond! And didn’t even respond to Rob Powers question correctly. I hope somebody else here saw it.
That’s Wright, can’t even look the camera in the eye when talking about the Mets when asked to. PLEASE no more ridiculous Wright/Jeter comparisons. It makes you look bad.
Bayonne, here you go:
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=8996803
Good find alex,
Now people scroll to the 4:28 mark where Rob Powers asks Wright to “look into the camera” and tell fans why they should be optimistic. He can’t even look into the camera. He heard him.
Why do you care about an interview man? shouldn’t you be trying to sell David Wright to the Padres for 50 bucks?
Haha now we are complaining about Wright not following the demands of a reporter to look into the camera and give the fans a corny pep talk?? Really?
Yes.
When a reporter asks YOU to look into a camera and say something that’s what you do. We see it all the time. And especially if they are a professional athlete. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a reporter ask someone to look into the camera and speak and they don’t.
Players most certainly do not always do everything reporters ask in exactly the manner they ask it be done. Nor should they. They are reporters speaking to players not drill sergeants commanding a platoon It’s beyond silly to rip on Wright for not perfectly fulfilling the reporters incredibly cheesy request.
And there are many times in interviews players don’t make eye contact, or don’t answer reporters questions fully or honestly. There are times players flat refuse to answer reporters questions, walk away and/or avoid interviews all together.
He should have just answered: ‘That’s a clown question, Bro.’
You guys must be joking if you’re picking apart that interview, grasping at straws much. WOW, getting desperate now huh?
Kay, it’s incredible. The screwball/whine factor runs high in some dissident quarters. For the most part, the same people are challenged with the written language and they are too defiant to use a spell-checker.
Here’s the one question that’ll put some type of overview on this debate, who do you trust more with the game on the line, one at bat, 9th inning Derek Jeter or david wright? Go ahead… I’ll be waiting………………
What’s the situation in the game? As you said yourself, they are different types of hitters.
I’m gonna go with Mackey Sasser. LOL
Hey as long as there isn’t a runner on third and Mackey has to get the ball back to the pitcher we should be in good shape.
LOL.
And here we go, typing LOL all it does is push back someone else’s more thought response to be read from the Recent Comments section.
Maybe be a little less selfish with your responses and not type something irrelevant, that contributes to NOTHING else but to the little banter the RDM people like to do here among themselves while pushing comments that people put some time and effort into writing off the Recent Comments section just because someone can’t control themselves from writing “LOL” or “THIS”
Selfish.
No good can come from me conversing with you.
Moving on.
And here you go pushing back someone’s comment by making a comment about someone pushing back a comment. Are you anything but a contradiction?
Bayonne, the only meaningless posts getting pushed down are yours. You just wasted an entire post with saying he wastes time, what did you just do ? You should just stop posting here, this site is for real Mets fans, you and alex should just go create your own little blog, and you can preach whatever you want to one another.
Irony isn’t your strong suit, is it?
You type the same thing over and over and over again, well to be fair all of you Core guys do, and then have the stones to criticize other people’s comments?
The lack of self-awareness is stunning.
talking about yourself there buddy?
I think you are. You say the same things all the time too albeit usually very lengthy. Same difference.
And yet I don’t spend all day here criticizing other commenters or tossing out random insults.
See if you can tell the difference.
EHHH stop pushing back good comments.
Jessep’s comment is now lost in space… wait now I did it too and Boomer’s comment is gone.
everybody focuses on Jeter’s postseason to define his career, and that should not be taken away from him at all.
He’s played in 158 postseason games – that makes it a little easy to come up with so called “clutch moments.”
If you look at Jeter’s 2004 playoffs and compare it to Wright’s 2006, you’d view this much differently. But the fact Jeter had 140 something other games to make people forget about his 2004 playoffs helps his resume out a ton.
The fact is Jeter was on greater teams. Jeter and Wright are different types of hitters but if Wright had 158 playoff games he’d have his great moments too – heck I believe any good hitter would.
Jeter is an all time great, no denying it. But people remember what they want to remember. You have a smaller sample size for Wright so it’s easier to remember failure. You have a greater sample size for Jeter so it’s easier to have memorable moments.
Give any good/great hitter 734 plate appearances and they will have a few moments to remember.
Give any good/great hitter 734 plate appearances and they will have a few moments to remember.”
Sigh…………… Hence your stupidty.
While I agree with others that it’s pointless to compare Wright’s post season numbers with Jeter’s (Wright too small a sample size)…..I will agree with your SMH analysis for this reason: ARod was considered a great hitter in his prime and generally sucked with the Yankees in post season – except for just about a total of one series.
Though overall postseason-wise despite the talk of Jeter being a postseason god and A-Rod being terrible their numbers are close.
A-Rod: .263/.369/.464 /.833
Jeter: .308/.374/.465 /.838
Jeter with the better average, but the other numbers are similar. Granted, A-Rod has been the much more productive hitter overall, so those numbers are a dropoff from his regular season career averages – whereas Jeter’s are right about in line with this career norms.
srt – Again it’s not about facts its about what you remember. That is why clutch hits are so silly.
Here’s a perfect example
Alex Rodriguez comes to the Yankees and he’s a terrible playoff hitter right
How come his .409 batting average, 5 RBI and 2 HR with a 1.253 OPS in the ALCS *against* the Yankees in 2000 doesn’t count?
In that Game 6, Seattle’s bullpen gave up 6 runs by Panigua and Rhodes to lose the game 9-7. ARod was essentially 9 outs away from a Game 7. Seattle wins that game, he’s the playoff MVP going into the World Series.
It’s all a matter of what you remember. Nobody talks about the Yankees collapse and coincidentally Jeter having a terrible playoff series but we sit here and talk about who lead to the Mets 07 and 08 collapses. Why? Because it means more to us.
Mark Lemke was a subpar offensive player but in the 1991 World Series he hit .417 – and some would use that to define his career as being a clutch hitter. All it is, is moments. You give good hitters enough chances, they will get a hit. The problem is fans choose what to remember and how to remember it. Nobody remembers ARod’s awesome LCS against the Yanks, they remember his bad moments.
Also, in order to make an impact in the playoffs – you have to get there. You have to play 162 games first. What you do over 162 games is more of a sign of how good you are than what you do in 7 games.
Joe Morgan is an all time great. You never, ever hear how he wasn’t clutch. Yet he hit .182 in the playoffs in his career. Yet for some reason I don’t think many people would take other infielders over him simply for that reason
Cmon Joe D really? How dare you try to draw any type of comparison between Wright and the Great New York Yankee Derek Jeter (sacrilege). Next thing you know someone will be trying to say the Mets have a chance to win 85 to 90 games. MMO is circling the drain having a bad day.
At least it’s not the damn Lebron vs. Kobe vs. Jordan thing. Like there is really any contest there.
Funny you should bring that up. When Michael said he’d take Kobe over LeBron because five championships is more than one, LeBron shot back and said no one in their right mind would take Bill Russell over Michael. Same applies here. Jeter’s played on champion-caliber teams, so it’s obvious that he has more rings and more playoff success. That has nothing to do with how good or valuable an individual player is.
In Jeter’s case, yes it does. You’re just generalizing your statement for everybody when in real life when you’re dealing with actual human beings playing the sport there are individuals who DO contribute to making a difference to the grand scheme of things.
As for the people…er Mets fans who are trying to take away from Jeter’s accomplishments and say it’s because of who surrounded him than you can say the same thing about Wright only with different results.
Wright too had plenty of good players around him – relative to the Mets and their situation – and while Jeter flourished in those conditions, Wright still floundered even with better players around him doing most of the work when the team needed it the most, not on the way there.
Sure Jeter contributed to the success. But you can’t have playoff success without the playoffs. You know that, and so does LeBron.
Bayonne, if you are going to do that comparison, you have to mention the fact that the people Jeter was surrounded with were ALOT better than the people Wright was surrounded with.
Come on man, you sound ridiculous.
Any way you can twist and turn anything against David Wright you will, I hope David Wright lines a foul ball off of your skull, just for karma’s sake.
Excellent addendum and link by Joe D. Really, when Jeter gives give his induction speech at the HOF, he needs to thank Mariano Rivera profusely and buy him a car or house. Rivera was the key difference maker in all those Yankees teams (along with PEDs, apparently), not Jeter.
Keep the PEDs and Rivera but lose Jeter, and those Yankee teams likely do just as well. Keep the PEDs and Jeter but lose Rivera, and it’s a whole different story.
If the Mets had had Rivera it’s a good chance they have 2 extra franchise WS titles by now (2000 and 2006) Put Jeter on those Mets teams? No difference.
I posted all the numbers in the earlier iteration of the thread, but Jeter pretty much proved the theory that given a big enough sample size, most players will roughly replicate their regular season results in the PS, especially when you are one of the few guys where the PS career spans the RS career. So nothing age-related to skew the #s.
when you look at them, pretty much spot on (rounding differences basically). so all that really proves is he did not “choke” in the PS, not that he somehow raised his game.
like others have said, he probably was the same player (clutch hit%, big fielding plays) in the PS as he was all along. He just had a monster team behind him to give him all the PS opps.
though at this point, since they have what, 1 WS trophy in the last 12/13 years, doesn’t that now make him a choke artist, since his teams keep going down in flames after a big RS win total?
Joe D, you’re just a trouble maker.
Jeter has also benefited from being a Yankee and all the attendant media fawning that comes with it. He has been hyped to the gills since the day he arrived in the Bronx and anything he’s done has been portrayed as the most awesomest thing ever.
He’s a damn good player and undoubtedly a first ballot HOFer but there’s no doubt he has been the media’s anointed one.
How many other players get immortalized in a movie as a “bi-racial angel”?
Jealousy much? And you’re talking about “anointed ones” i find hypocritical considering what’s been going on here recently.
And yes, when you win as many World Series in New York City as he has and you’re a prime reason for those World Series wins, and the name of your team is the Yankees then yes you can be the anointed one. Be real, buddy…your fandom is getting in the way of your supposedly objective baseball posts. My ass.
I’m not jealous in the least. I couldn’t care less who the media likes and doesn’t like. But denying that the Yankees are one of the most hyped franchises in professional sports and a guy like Jeter who is, I know you’re gonna love this because you love it when it is said about Wright, the face of the franchise gets an inordinate amount of ink is silly. Ask any baseball fan outside of the Bronx how sick they are of hearing about the Yankees and Jeter.
Wright is also a damn good player. A top 5 3rd baseman in baseball and also a contender for MVP last season. He is absolutely as valuable to the Mets as Jeter is to the Yankees.
“Wright is also a damn good player. A top 5 3rd baseman in baseball and also a contender for MVP last season. He is absolutely as valuable to the Mets as Jeter is to the Yankees.”
That is another topic for another time.
As for why the hype always surrounds the New York Yankees? I wonder why? I think you should be able to figure it out.
Easy. They have been the most successful team in baseball and they play in the biggest media market in the world. They were successful long before Jeter got there and will be again after he leaves. In the meantime, he has benefited greatly by being the face of the most successful baseball franchise in history.
But thanks for proving my point.
Jeter has also benefited from being a Yankee and all the attendant media fawning that comes with it. ”
But, wouldn’t that put more pressure on jeter? making it even more amazing the amount of success in clutch/pressure situations, and to perform in the biggest stage, for the biggest team, in the spotlight time after time is short of amazing, which is the reason why you’d take him any day over this choker, who couldn’t even a ground out when the team needed him the most…
Jeter>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wright….. Move on people, some of you are looking more clueless by each post.
Jeter was the face of the franchise that won 3 WS rings in his FIRST 3 years in the bigs…
people forget…but Jeter was seen as a good omen…before Jeter…the Yanks thought they suffered some curse since they hadnt won since 78
at least DJ via his clutch play EARNED being a media darling.
Wow, that gift basket Jeter give you must have really done the trick. Must be why you are so smitten with him you magnify his career beyond reality.
Jeter’s first year was 1995. From 1995-1997, the Yankees won 1 title.
sorry, i dont follow the yankees as tight as u do…
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/yankees/2011-06-07-1996-derek-jeter_N.htm
It said 1996 was Jeter’s rookie year…
and I remember the Yanks won a string of titles in the late 90′s….
so it was 96-98-99-00
Jeter won 4 rings in his first 5 years as a player…
why on earth would people put him on a pedestal ….
By 2004, 8 years in, SI ran articles on DJ’s top 10 clutch performances…
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/baseball/mlb/specials/all_star/2004/07/07/jeter.clutch/index.html
But yeah….lets pretend like David is just as good as DJ
lmao
Well that’s obvious you don’t follow them or you would have a better grasp of the facts about them. That’s really no excuse for posting false information.
Jeter’s first year was 1995. His first 3 years were 1995 through 1997. The Yankees won ONE title during those years. They won subsequent ones due to the payrolls, PEDs cheating, and stacked teams he was on. They won subsequent titles because of Rivera, Williams,. O’Neill, Cone, Pettitte, etc. etc. Take away Rivera, Williams and the steroids. and they probably only win that 1996 title.
When Jeter goes into the HOF, they can put a syringe on his cap! That’s how much PEDS played a part in those teams’ accomplishments.
In a poll in SI, Jeter’s own peers voted him the most overrated player in MLB.
I don’t need to pretend Wright is a better player than Jeter. He simply is.
I don’t need to pretend Wright is a better player than Jeter. He simply is.”
Are you really this stupid? The utterly disrespect from some of you it’s amazing to me. . Being a met fan and seeing this guy fail time after time in the clutch, not being the player who we all though he was after watching him in 2007 and having him signed long term despite being a losing franchise since being pegged the man is amazinfg to me how anyone can say he’s some sort of franchise player let alone better than a HOF
I agree that Jeter is a HOF and Wright isn’t. My question remains, as always, why does it bother you so much that on a Mets site people overrate one of if not their best developed position player? Why do you feel the need to tear him down at every opportunity? Of course you will come back with why to you worship him or some 3rd grade word, but is it more unusual to see fans of Wright on a Mets blog or detractors?
TRS, you’re wrong, here’s my problem,. and this is including you, all we said back in 2008 was that he wasn’t being a clutch hitter when it matter because, throughout the season he was hittign 243 with RISP, we were taking heat from people like you and others who pegged us as haters, there were many people criticizing beltran, delgado and reyes, but gave wright a pass, that’s when the CORE was born and you know this, ever since, people like me, maniac and others who described the guy as what he is, a good player but not a franchise player have been criticized to no end, at what point do you and the wright lovers finally realize that this guy is just what we thought he was? a good enough player, nothing special, nothing to be excited about, but he will put up decent number while the team losses more than it wins? at some point, you’ve got to come to the realization that he’s not that special of a player i even thought he was back in 2007, plain and simple.. to compare him with a HOF is just crazy!!!
We’re taking about a HALL OF FAMER, this guy is nowhere near that caliber of player and some idiots are even saying he’s better???? in what f’ing world does an average to good enough player is better than a HALL OF FAMER???????????? Please, stop this nonsense…..
You are still missing the point Alex. It doesn’t matter if YOU are right or wrong. Personally, I believe as usual it’s right in the middle, he’s a lot better than you say he is but not elite. My point is why do you make it a crusade to bring him down or shed light up on him as you say and try to get people to not make a big deal out of him on a Mets site? It’s a dang Mets site. What do you think the effect would be if you went on to a Phillies blog and constantly trashed Utley? Or a Rays blog and bashed Longoria? We are Mets fans, we overrate our prospects, our players, and most importantly our opinion.
Last 4 years compare to the previous 4 before that:
2009-2012: 290 ba 18 hr 80 rbi 843 ops
2005-2008: 311 ba 30 hr 112 rbi 928 ops
Now, if you tell me that’s not the numbers of someone on decline i don’t know what is…
Also, again, we’re comparing a #2 and even a #1 hitter who’s job is to get on base and make contact with a run producer. you’ve given me the numbers of a guy who’s main job is to produce runs versus a guy who’s job is to scored runs, get on base, hit etc… big difference. now, if you guys wanna give me arod versus dwright, i’ll gladly accept it, so no matter what sabergooners or dwright lovers come up with, i’ll have the final word by just saying this:
Jeter HOF
Wright NOT
I am assuming you clicky the wrong button thingy because I know that wasn’t a response to me as it had absolutely nothing to do with what I said which you seem to be avoiding.
More to eeryone than you… But you’re included as well. while i get the whole overrate our own players etc, at some point the nonsense gotta stop….. no?
Why? It’s a Mets site? Why does it bother you so much that they overrate Wright in particular? I mean you have to understand why they get angry when someone berates him, it’s a Mets site. But what I don’t get is why you would care that they like one of the best positional players the Mets have ever developed?
Like? I don’t care if they (You included) like him or not, point is, why can’t i have my own opinion then? You seem to be a “logical” mets fans, you call yourself neutral when it comes to david, however, you only seem to jump in whenever someone say he’s overrated, not as good as YOU think he is or that he’s unclutch, everyone is entitled to their own opinion the same way, not everyone will like wright, or reyes, or beltran, but for the love of god, to say this man is better than a HOF is just fuc***** absurd!!!!!!! and of course, i don’t see you counter attacking those who do.. so i suggest you do the same to the people who don’t think as highly of wright as you all do. even though this is a mets site, there’s a reason why is the best, because it’s not as bias as others blog where you pretty much have to like every comment and continuosly post THIS on replies for the good of the site. in here we’re all allow to post our opinions whether they’ll like or not…. So F*** MB, AA, the desert and all those other sites who are basically one sided….
I give up for you will never see my point. You hatred of Wright has clouded your judgement. I will close with this. Why on a Mets site would you ever try to convince people that David Wright isn’t as good as people say he is and ultimately why would you care if they think he is god reincarnate. It makes absolutely no sense to me.
Carry on.
Yet when there was a debate last year about whether or not Reyes is a HOF SS the man got incensed when people were saying Reyes is a good player but not a HOFer. He called anybody who said that a hater. All sorts of excuses why Reyes is much worse in clutch situations.
Career RISP –
Wright: .874 OPS
Jeter: .818 OPS
Career Late & Close –
Wright: .829 OPS
Jeter: .794 OPS
Now who is stupid, Alex?
^^^^ And those aren’t even park adjusted numbers. If you park adjusted them, Wright would have an even bigger edge. Jeter has played in more hitter friendly parks throughout his entire career.
numbers are irrelevant, unless they happen to fit their agenda, in which case they are hugely important.
actually no because this is an example that should show you how misleading numbers can be in describing a certain athlete if David Wright has better numbers than Derek Jeter in certain categories when the truth is Wright could never be even half the competitor Jeter is.
So actually these are perfect examples of how numbers can mislead no matter how lofty they look. They simply mislead by falsely telling one part of a story about an athlete.
Again, these last few days just show how stupid and out of touch some Mets fans can really be actually believing Wright could ever be better than Derek Jeter. These are not baseball fans, they are “mets” fans who are embarrassing themselves with this.
more likely, it is just one more example of how perception bias skews memory. IOW, you “see” what you believe to be true, regardless of if it is true or not.
Right,
And what i perceive to be true is Jeter is a much better athlete than David Wright, a much better player, a much better competitor, a much more trusted performer when the stakes are at their hightes and one that will go to the Hall Of Fame as the face of an era of one of the most storied franchises in all of sports.
That’s what i perceive.
van, you are exactly right. Double standards and contradictions abound with them. But nobody is fooled — only themselves!
“Career RISP –
Wright: .874 OPS
Jeter: .818 OPS
Career Late & Close –
Wright: .829 OPS
Jeter: .794 OPS
Now who is stupid, Alex?”
You are.
Wright’s career OPS w/runners in scoring position and late & close are against Padres, Pirates, Astros, with the occasional important hit vs.good teams, all mostly on Mets teams who don’t play in any pressure games while Jeter’s numbers in the identical categories are most of the time accrued in BIG GAMES vs. Boston, Toronto, Angels, Tampa Bay, etc.
So most of Jeter’s career he’s accumulated his numbers against mostly better teams in much higher levels of competition where the pressure is much higher and where certain athletes simply cannot perform.
Wright is one of those athletes who has proven he cannot perform under the same conditions that Jeter has excelled.
Case closed.
Prove that most of Wright’s offense w-RISP came against lesser competition and not against teams like the Phillies, Giants, Cards and Braves.
Prove that most of Jeter’s offense w-RISP came against better competition and not against bad Royals, Orioles, Oakland, Indians, Rays (before they were good) teams.
Prove that Jeter didn’t have LESS pressure on him because he’s always hit in more stacked (and juiced) lineups and in better hitters parks.
Unless you can prove any of this, you have no case.
Who is stupid? You, for thinking your simple biased unsubstantiated opinion means anything.
yeah, i’ll go spend hours of research to make a point to a F*cking stupid, biased, Met fan like you who couldn’t be honest baseball-wise in evaluating your own team.
Common sense will tell ANY smart BASEBALL person those answers when you consider recent Yankee and Met history.
Drop dead you moron.
Thanks for proving who ^^^^ the real moron is.
LOL, your uncontrolled manic anger is hilarious. Thanks for the entertainment!
In keeping with the Wright & Wheeler talk Mike Kerwick tweets the following,
@mikekerwick
DW: “No knock on Justin [Upton]… but I’ve seen a couple bullpens from Zack Wheeler and Matt Harvey. I wouldn’t have traded them either.”
https://twitter.com/mikekerwick/statuses/303603121597341698
I will just want to add this. Jeter has had better lineups batting behind him as well. Which we all know means has seen and gotten better pitches to hit, more fastballs to whack at. That does help a bit as well.
David Wright came up SHORT and had EMPTY stats in September 2007 and 2008…
if u want a better picture…u have to WATCH THE GAMES…if u cant do that…than u can bring back the play by play..
In case u wondered…the day AFTER Wright FAILED in the 9th inning…he had ANOTHER chance to redeem himself…
with the winning run on base and 1 out…what did Dr. Dimples do again…STRIKE OUT
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/sports/baseball/26curry.html?_r=0
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN200809250.shtml
Sorry…but Wright FAILED in the clutch over and over and over…
please dont make me pull out the play by play for EVERY game in september….I will completely dump on the fantasy that Wright was clutch…
O by the way…the guy that scored the winning run was REYES…
Are you joking? Wright had an OPS of 1.034 in September of 2007 and an OPS of .993 in September 2008. You can’t do much better than that. Why does it matter that he didn’t come through in a few situations those Septembers? No player comes through in every big situation, no matter who he is. Some of you want Wright to walk on water.
“Why does it matter that he didn’t come through in a few situations those Septembers?”
Because that began a string of not coming through in clutch situations for the next 5 seasons.
“Some of you want Wright to walk on water.”
Thats because you fanboys ALREADY ACT LIKE HE DOES
But that’s simply false. You have nothing to back that up. It’s something you just like to say.
No one said he walks on water but somehow you and others expect him too … plus cure cancer, solve world peace, and fix global warming.
Meanwhile, Jose’s performance in September of both 2007 and 2008 was terrible. His OPS in September 2007 was just .612. If he had hit more normally that month, maybe the Mets don’t have that historic choke. September is easily Jose’s worst month over his career. The Blue Jays better hope they are not in a tight pennant race in September, because Jose won’t be of much help if he follows the pattern of his past Septembers.
Hush…the issue has been settled. Reyes scored a run once and Wright made two outs. Clearly Reyes was better regardless of what all the other stats say.
U can whip out any stat u want…if u go game by game…u’ll see Reyes came through as often or even more in clutch situations than Wright did…
if u go 3 for 4 with a HR in a game where u are losing 12-1….then go 0-4 in a game where u won 2-0…even struck out with the bases loaded in the bottom of the 8th innning…
technically, ur hitting .500….
but in reality, u came up short when ur team needed u MOST
like i said…David Wright STANS do not want me go game-by game in Sept 2007 / 2008 and point out when/where he had those base hits…and even more importantly…when/where he did NOT come through…
False. Rubbish. There is no way Reyes is a better hitter than Wright in September. Reyes has been an utter FAILURE in Septembers. Wright has been a very good hitter in Septembers.
As a “clutch” hitter, Wright is above average in terms of WPA-type clutch stats. His OPS in high leverage situations is .911! He’s MUCH better than many players such as Reyes, Cano and A-Roid. In terms of situational stats, he’s also above average, with an .829 OPS in close and late situations. So the stats contradict what you say.
Prove otherwise. Yes, go game by game if you want. Go ahead. Make my day!
What he keeps threatening to do, I already did. I went through every AB in 2007 and he’s correct. Wright only came through about 1/3 of the time…. lol. Imagine that. A guy that hits .300 came through about 1/3 of the time. The selective memory crowd is something else. All they remember is one or two key AB’s where a guy failed without realizing it’s baseball and the greats fail 2/3 times.
Oh and on a side note, I did it with Reyes too. Guess what? About 1/4-5 times? Why? Because he was a .200 hitter.
Thank you TRS86. It’s amazing that even when presented with facts to the contrary, some will keep harping on false things.
Just pull out Wright and Reyes’ clutch stats, high leverage and compare them. Wright dwarfs Reyes. Reyes just last year in Miami got his first career walkoff hit. It came on a misplayed flyball in RF. Ten years and only one walkoff hit. Wright has eight. The September 07 and 08 numbers are startling between the two.
Wright High Leverage 317/390/521 911 OPS
Reyes High Leverage 279/346/387 733 OPS
Not even close!
Good stats, Fonzie. There are all different stats to measure clutch, none of them ideal, but many of them valuable. No matter what “clutch” stat you use, Reyes will always come out looking inferior to Wright. Reyes is in fact a poor clutch performer. Which doesn’t mean he isn’t still a very good player … just not clutch.
Turner .358/.441/.488/.928
Yet the genius is making him the odd man out over Quintanilla…
Because he is not sure of the guy he was sure was a replacement for Reyes….
Sure…
Wright was clutch in September huh?
2007….Between Sept 14 – September 20, the mets went 1-6….
during this stretch, Wright hit .379…..
lets look at each game…
Sept 14
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN200709140.shtml
Wright hits a solo shot in the 1st inning with no one on base….hits into 2 double-plays in the later innings…gets HBP….
Sept 15
Tying Run on 1st base….bottom of the 9th….David Wright strikes out
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN200709150.shtml
Sept 16
Team was down 10-5…Solo Shot in the 7th inning…nothing else to report…
Sept 17
Down by 5…2 runners on…7th inning facing Luis Ayala….Wright comes up short..again…
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN200709160.shtml
Sept 18
Down by 2….8th inning…1 out….tying run at the plate….and Wright hits into a double-play…
Sept 19th
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/WAS/WAS200709190.shtml
Mets up by 2 in the 7th inning…Wright comes through with a run-scoring double …so far this is as clutch as it gets…
Sept 20th
To me this was the straw that broke the camel’s back…
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/FLO/FLO200709200.shtml
9th inning…Runner on 3rd….1 out….mets up by 3….Wright up at the plate…strikes out looking
Marlins come back in the next inning and score 4 runs…game over…
so yeah…u can cherry pick stats…but when u actually take a closer look at each game then look at wright’s performances in the years after in clutch situations..u can see why folks started labeling him a choker…
he certainly was NOT the teams most clutch hitter…nor its best hitter…but he has ALWAYS been the “face” of the franchise…
usually thats reserved for the BEST player….not the most marketable mascot
Let’s take a closer look at those games, add in missing information, and put them in proper context:
9/14
Wright puts the team ahead in the first inning and is basically the only Met, apart from Alou, who does anything in the game and you’re complaining? In that game, Reyes did nothing and Beltran went 0-3 with 3 LOB … And once again, your inability to read a page with numbers on it comes into play. Wright only hit into 1 DP in that game (not 2 as you said) and it came in the bottom of the 6th, not really that “late” in the game. LOL
9/15
Wright had a bad game. But, once again, Reyes does essentially nothing. And Carlos Beltran flied out to right to end the game with Reyes on first base and the Mets down by 2.
9/16
Huh? Yes, there is something to report. Down 10-5 in the 7th, there’s still 3 innings left to climb back. So Wright does his job with a HR. What about Reyes, once again, doing virtually nothing in the entire game?
9/17
No one on the Mets did anything in that game after the 4th inning. Not Wright, Reyes or Beltran.
9/18
Wright has an RBI and run scored in that game. Same as Beltran. Once again, Reyes is virtually absent. The invisible man. And Beltran strikes out to start the 9th with the Mets down by just 2. He struck out 3 times in that game. SMH
9/19
Huh? Wright had the game tying single in the third, put the Mets up by 4-2 in the 5th with a SF, and added an RBI in the 7th. Beltran goes 0-5 and Reyes finally has a decent game with 2 hits – his only 2-hit game during that stretch.
9/20
Wright goes 3 for 4 with 1 RBI. Meanwhile Beltran goes 1 for 5 with 1 RBI and 5 LOB compared to Wright’s 1 LOB! SMH … Reyes once again plays the invisible man!
So whatever issue you see with Wright, Beltran and Reyes were worse during that stretch.
You can cherry-pick a 7-game sample for anyone and nitpick it to death. Look at Jeter’s games from 9/4/2008 to 9/13/2008 and see how often he failed to come through in big situations when the Yankees really needed him. They failed to make the postseason that year but still had a chance to make the WC in early September.
Here’s all you need to know about Wright in September 2007, from the 12th of that month when the slide began to the end of the season. It’s the critical 18-game span that year:
Wright: 397/451/575 (1.027 OPS)
Alou: 384/416/479 (895 OPS)
Beltran: 250/300/472 (772 OPS)
Reyes: 203/292/329 (621 OPS)
Delgado 297/381/486 (867 OPS)
Wright was getting on base almost half the time during that stretch. If he wasn’t driving in runs, he was advancing runners, setting the table for others, and keeping innings going. Which he did better than anyone else on the team during that stretch. How anyone can whine about his performance that month is beyond me. Except for Alou, if more of Wright’s teammates had done their jobs then, the Mets likely make the playoffs and avoid that historic choke. Reyes by far was the worst offender.
LOL
so how many of Wright’s basehits came in late and close situations in september ?
LOL, if you want to know add them up, and do that for every main hitter on the team that September as well. No one is stopping you.
Know this …
Career Late and Close
Wright: 284/394/435 (829 OPS)
Beltran: 266/363/432 (795 OPS)
Awesome…
http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats.cgi?full=1¶ms=clutc%7CLate%20%26%20Close%7Cwrighda03%7Cbat%7CAB%7C
Wright hit .341 in 2004
Wright hit .348 in 2006
Wright hit .346 in 2007
From 2008-2011, Wright was HORRIBLE in clutch situations…In the beginning of 2012, he was back to being awesome…then he fell back into his 2008-2011 ways…
People rode Beltran for years on not being clutch…
But David Wright for YEARS has gotten a pass…
thank u for bringing that up, u only made my case stronger
LOL, what case? You don’t have a case.
I gave you career stats. If players always had the same stats year after year, then no need for a career stat, right? That’s why you use a LARGE sample size. To even out the variations. It’s why larger sample sizes are more valid than smaller ones. LMAO. So what’s your point?
Even Beltran fluctuates year-to-year in terms of late and close:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats.cgi?full=1¶ms=clutc|Late%20%26%20Close|beltrca01|bat|AB|
And don’t look at me regarding Beltran. I never once criticized him regarding his clutchness.
You need to go back to the drawing board!
Correct link: http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats.cgi?full=1¶ms=clutc|Late%20%26%20Close|beltrca01|bat|AB|
Uh, once more:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats.cgi?full=1¶ms=clutc|Late%20%26%20Close|beltrca01|bat|AB|#Late%20&%20Close1::none
sorry…this may be a blow to your ego..but this is NOT about Metro12…and his opinion
ur opinion is NOT the reason why articles in 2011 were written explaining why Beltran was actually a clutch hitter and the NY media basically made him out to be the failure that David Wright actually was from 2008-2011 in clutch situations…
“From 2008-2011, Wright was HORRIBLE in clutch situations…”
You can not even refute this
It’s definitely a blow to my TIME because why are you wasting my time with a totally irrelevant point? What does someone in the NY media and what they say have to do with this discussion right here and now?
Can you stay on point?
So getting back to THIS discussion, the numbers clearly show Wright is better than Beltran hitting in high leverage situations and late and close for his career. No amount of whining about the NY media will change that!
“From 2008-2011, Wright was HORRIBLE in clutch situations…”
You can not even refute t
Really? You think an OPS of .876 in close and late in 2008 and an OPS of .811 in close and late in 2011 is HORRIBLE?
Then what do you think of Beltran’s close and late numbers for these years?
2007 — .627
2008 — .790
2010 — .707
2011 — .593
2012 — .780
Hmmmm … what say you, damaja?
That’s completely false. 2008 Wright was clutch. 2009 his late and close was weak but he still hit 325/400/483/ 883 OPS in High Leverage situations which is the most crucial at bats in a game.
2010 he was bad late and close and not good in High Leverage except for the fact that he still slugged over 500 264/317/504 821 OPS which is still pretty good despite being below his standards.
2011 he was hurt but I remember him being poor in the clutch prior to his injury. He still had an 811 OPS late and close and High Leverage it was 289/358/474 832 OPS again that’s pretty good. Just below his standards. And not as good as 2005-2008.
JDD, good job taking the time I was not going to do by going game to game and notice how the other guy went game to game rationalizing Wright’s failures by pointing out other key ABs/plays.
I did something similar a couple of years ago as well. Also any person that says Wright was just as clutch as Beltran……..well there you go. This metro12 critter is a brainless carnival barker for the Mets and has absolutely no interest in anything else.
Don’t waste your time.
Your daily diatribes are the most boring on this otherwise great site. Grow ;up Little Man.
another Wright fan under a false name. Way to support your cause. That will show ‘em
Jerk.
LMAO
The only small group of people who regard Beltran as not being clutch are strangely the only small group of people who still think David Wright is
http://theshadowleague.com/articles/beltran-s-playing-for-rep-and-revenge
Who said Beltran is unclutch??
Read again.
Hey don’t group the two. I happen to think both Beltran AND Wright are awesome.
The strangest group of people are those who give Reyes a pass for his Septs but hammer away at Wright or Beltran
Wa Wa Waaaa!
Career High Leverage Situations
Wright: 317/390/521 (911 OPS)
Beltran 295/376/511 (888 OPS)
he certainly was NOT the teams most clutch hitter…nor its best hitter
I disagree. Since he broke in with the Mets, Wright has been their best hitter. And I would say both him and Beltran are about equally clutch.
Wright has certainly been more clutch than Reyes. By a mile. No question.
“To me this was the straw that broke the camel’s back…
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/FLO/FLO200709200.shtml
9th inning…Runner on 3rd….1 out….mets up by 3….Wright up at the plate…strikes out looking
Marlins come back in the next inning and score 4 runs…game over…”
So, thanks for proving that no matter what it’s Wrights fault. The team is up by 3 runs in the 9th friggen inning, he K’s out, and the bullpen blows it AGAIN, and the this is the straw that broke the camels back? You have got to be kidding me.
Clearly, it’s about hating the guy, then the facts of the game, you just proved it. WOW.
absolutely not.
No one said it was ALL wright’s fault…
what i am pointing to was the beginning of a trend under clutch situations.
He was consistently a failure in these situations for several years…what i am saying is that this started after the 2006 season.
the only exception was last year for a few months…
the mets blew almost 50 games with their bullpen in those 2 years. to blame it all on wright or really any position player would not be realistic.
but to say that Wright has been clutch b/c of his stats w/o actually looking at how he acquired those stats is also not right…
and unlike reyes, beltran, delgado, wright was made out to be a savior which he CLEARLY has not been.
Stop right there, its a lose lose, if he hit a homerun then they were up 5 runs the answer would be “who cares he hits when the team is up 5 runs, in the 9th big deal”
Not straw that broke the camels back but grasping at straws, it’s ok I can see how you got those two cliche’s confused.
how about a few game-winning hits?
u do know a SAC FLY with the bases loaded in a tie game in the 9th inning carries more weight than a HR when ur up/down by 10 runs..
and neither would raise your batting average, OPS, SLG, OBP.
sorry…but most wright fans point to TWO seasons as to why DW is a clutch hitter…and even in those 2 seasons…i can zoom in and show how that is not exactly true.
2007 Wright had 30 go ahead hits meaning he put the team when it was either tied or trailing into the lead, 30 times. 2008 he had 24 go ahead hits.
2007 Beltran had 20 go ahead hits, 10 less than Wright. 2008 he had 24 same as Wright.
2007 Delgado had 12 go ahead hits and in 2008 he had 20.
2007 Reyes had 8 go ahead hits and in 2008 he had 10.
No matter how you slice it Wright was the best player on the team those 2 seasons.
He turned more deficits into leads and broke more ties than any other Met.
Damaja, use less extreme examples
If Wright with the bases loaded in the 2nd inning of a 0-0 game knocks in a run via sac fly and the team wins 1-0 there are people who consider that at bat as “not clutch”
If Wright is up in the same situation in the 9th inning, the moment is magnified because there is less time for failure but the result is the exact same is it not?
This is partially why I do not buy into clutch. The moment is built up by fans, Wright is trying to get that run in during the 2nd inning just like he wants to get it in during the 8th inning. We usually do not remember those 2nd inning RBI – that doesn’t mean they weren’t important though does it?
Agreed Jessep. There are tons of situations over the course of a game as well that impact how it plays out. Even if that game doesn’t end 1-0…what happens early can certainly have an impact on how the game plays out. And it often is hindsight judging what is important. Like the aforementioned “straw that broke the camels back” being a game where the Mets were up 3 late, Wright struck out and then the Mets gave up 4 runs. Those up by 3 runs spots are often ones “the core” like to describe as stat padding.
Wright was great down the stretch of 2007. He didn’t bat 1.000 and occasionally he made an out when a hit would have helped – but that’s the case with everyone.
My favorite reply “you do know”, now why don’t you school me because clearly I haven’t seen a game. Funny, I brought up the exact same scenario earlier about the famous game that he blew when he K’d for the first out in the 9th, leaving two more chances, one being a sac fly, but no, I didn’t know that.
Nice change of subject there. YOU said the straw that broke the camels back was on a game that he didn’t put the team up 5 runs in the 9th, when the bullpen blew it. That’s all I need to read on the whole Wright is not clutch. Weakest argument ever.
How about a few game winning hits? Have YOU actually watched any games? Now this is bordering on asinine.
jeter is by far the worst regular defensive shortstop in the league. wright isnt that great either. neither deserve golden gloves, but it doesnt matter because no one who any sense whatsover cares about the golden glove, which is a farce of an award.
Are you trying to say Rafael Palmeiro winning the GG one year playing 17 games at 1B a farce?
And one time, in band camp…