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	<title>Comments on: The 2013 Mets Have No Chance To Win. However&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/the-2013-mets-have-no-chance-to-win-however.html#comment-367167</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2013 23:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=108983#comment-367167</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks MNJ---Thought that was a good attention getter]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks MNJ&#8212;Thought that was a good attention getter</p>
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		<title>By: Joey D.</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/the-2013-mets-have-no-chance-to-win-however.html#comment-367164</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2013 23:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=108983#comment-367164</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Rob,

Love your stroll through memory lane,  however, there were a few things which I hope you don&#039;t mind that I think you under-estimate, my having been there at the time and is important to remember in comparing the chances of 2013 to that of 1969.  

For example, there is your take on Tom Seaver:

&quot;In the spring of 1969, Seaver was not yet Tom Terrific. He was a promising 24-year old kid with a mediocre 32 wins and 25 losses &quot;

This is really furthest from the truth.   In 1968, Seaver was one of the unluckiest pitchers there was with barely any run support.  Prior to the 1969 season, Jack Zanger wrote:

&quot;He even loses like a winner.  Last season, he was deprived of a number of early season wins because of the ineptitude of the Mets batters.  Tom took the losses with his usual good grace, but never became discouraged.&quot;

He was a two-time all star in two seasons and even in the year of the pitcher when the league ERA was 2.98 and whip close to 1.2, Tom&#039;s was 2.20 and below 1.00.  Rookie of the year in 1967, he was regarded as being years ahead of his age when it came to maturity and poise.  Zanger ended by saying of Tom &quot;He&#039;s a pitcher&#039;s pitcher&quot;.

That shows that he was not promising - he was already there!

Then there was the direction the team was heading.   In 1968 we won 73 games, more than we ever did before.   We improved our win total by 12.  We had taken on a no-nonsense approach under Gil Hodges.  We were finally a rising team which suddenly had a pitching staff that went from 9th to 4th best in the league in one year.  The following season it was the best in the national league, surpassed only by that of Baltimore.  

Today we have a young and promising rotation, yet despite that we still finished in the lower third in pitching.   And what about the bullpen?   

We also had a strong defense, the fourth best fielding team in the league after being 8th the year before.   In that sense, the 2012 Mets are similar as their defense improved tremendously over that of 2011. 

The Mets also had a shot at sixth place going into September before they slumped and were able to finish just a half-game out the cellar.
 
Then, regarding 1973:

&quot;But somehow, with no expectations, 1973 remains one of the best years in Mets history. We managed to finagle the NL East title, upset a Big Red Machine team that was filled top to bottom with would-be Hall of Famers. And then, pushed the A’s in the midst of their dynasty, to seven games, even getting the tying run to the plate in the ninth inning of Game Seven.&quot;

But as mentioned before, that was when (of all people) M. Donald Grant told the team in late August that you&#039;ve got to believe&quot;.  We all know &quot;ya gotta believe&quot; became the rally cry led by Tug McGraw.   That is much different than after the trade of their closer the current G.M. 

 &quot;I think far more important in that situation will be realistically how we play over the next two weeks, three weeks as the season develops.&quot;. 

 Of course, we know what the mood of the clubhouse was after Beltran was traded and the following season when no help was obtained when the were again in the hunt for the wildcard.  And back in 1973 Mrs. Payson was still running things and the players had no problem with the front office&#039;s focus on winning.   When Grant took over, just like with Sandy today, his focus was primarily on the ledger book.   Both wanted to win, to be sure, but it wasn&#039;t the driving force behind the moves they made.

So there were a lot of things going for us then that we do not have now.  At the same time, there was no wildcard then - it was winner take all.   So, the Mets do have a better shot at post-season this year than in 1969 because today, mediocrity is rewarded with one third of the clubs getting a shot at the world series past game 162.

Also, there is a bit of historical accuracy that needs to be corrected:

&quot;And yet, even though the 62 Yankees won 96 games and their eighth World Championship in 13 years, it was the new kids in town who drew more fans.&quot;

The Yankees drew over a half million more than the Mets that first season and let the American League in attendance with 1,493,574 compared to the Mets 922,530.  Take away the over 200,000 that attended the first five dates that the Dodgers and Giants drew their first series back in New York, Yankee (and replaced that with their average draw instead), Yankee attendance would almost be double that of the Mets (there were fewer of us &quot;new breeders&quot; that first season but we led the charge!).

Hope I didn&#039;t burst your bubble too much, but there are many differences with this team as it was back in 1968 or 1973.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rob,</p>
<p>Love your stroll through memory lane,  however, there were a few things which I hope you don&#8217;t mind that I think you under-estimate, my having been there at the time and is important to remember in comparing the chances of 2013 to that of 1969.  </p>
<p>For example, there is your take on Tom Seaver:</p>
<p>&#8220;In the spring of 1969, Seaver was not yet Tom Terrific. He was a promising 24-year old kid with a mediocre 32 wins and 25 losses &#8221;</p>
<p>This is really furthest from the truth.   In 1968, Seaver was one of the unluckiest pitchers there was with barely any run support.  Prior to the 1969 season, Jack Zanger wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;He even loses like a winner.  Last season, he was deprived of a number of early season wins because of the ineptitude of the Mets batters.  Tom took the losses with his usual good grace, but never became discouraged.&#8221;</p>
<p>He was a two-time all star in two seasons and even in the year of the pitcher when the league ERA was 2.98 and whip close to 1.2, Tom&#8217;s was 2.20 and below 1.00.  Rookie of the year in 1967, he was regarded as being years ahead of his age when it came to maturity and poise.  Zanger ended by saying of Tom &#8220;He&#8217;s a pitcher&#8217;s pitcher&#8221;.</p>
<p>That shows that he was not promising &#8211; he was already there!</p>
<p>Then there was the direction the team was heading.   In 1968 we won 73 games, more than we ever did before.   We improved our win total by 12.  We had taken on a no-nonsense approach under Gil Hodges.  We were finally a rising team which suddenly had a pitching staff that went from 9th to 4th best in the league in one year.  The following season it was the best in the national league, surpassed only by that of Baltimore.  </p>
<p>Today we have a young and promising rotation, yet despite that we still finished in the lower third in pitching.   And what about the bullpen?   </p>
<p>We also had a strong defense, the fourth best fielding team in the league after being 8th the year before.   In that sense, the 2012 Mets are similar as their defense improved tremendously over that of 2011. </p>
<p>The Mets also had a shot at sixth place going into September before they slumped and were able to finish just a half-game out the cellar.</p>
<p>Then, regarding 1973:</p>
<p>&#8220;But somehow, with no expectations, 1973 remains one of the best years in Mets history. We managed to finagle the NL East title, upset a Big Red Machine team that was filled top to bottom with would-be Hall of Famers. And then, pushed the A’s in the midst of their dynasty, to seven games, even getting the tying run to the plate in the ninth inning of Game Seven.&#8221;</p>
<p>But as mentioned before, that was when (of all people) M. Donald Grant told the team in late August that you&#8217;ve got to believe&#8221;.  We all know &#8220;ya gotta believe&#8221; became the rally cry led by Tug McGraw.   That is much different than after the trade of their closer the current G.M. </p>
<p> &#8220;I think far more important in that situation will be realistically how we play over the next two weeks, three weeks as the season develops.&#8221;. </p>
<p> Of course, we know what the mood of the clubhouse was after Beltran was traded and the following season when no help was obtained when the were again in the hunt for the wildcard.  And back in 1973 Mrs. Payson was still running things and the players had no problem with the front office&#8217;s focus on winning.   When Grant took over, just like with Sandy today, his focus was primarily on the ledger book.   Both wanted to win, to be sure, but it wasn&#8217;t the driving force behind the moves they made.</p>
<p>So there were a lot of things going for us then that we do not have now.  At the same time, there was no wildcard then &#8211; it was winner take all.   So, the Mets do have a better shot at post-season this year than in 1969 because today, mediocrity is rewarded with one third of the clubs getting a shot at the world series past game 162.</p>
<p>Also, there is a bit of historical accuracy that needs to be corrected:</p>
<p>&#8220;And yet, even though the 62 Yankees won 96 games and their eighth World Championship in 13 years, it was the new kids in town who drew more fans.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Yankees drew over a half million more than the Mets that first season and let the American League in attendance with 1,493,574 compared to the Mets 922,530.  Take away the over 200,000 that attended the first five dates that the Dodgers and Giants drew their first series back in New York, Yankee (and replaced that with their average draw instead), Yankee attendance would almost be double that of the Mets (there were fewer of us &#8220;new breeders&#8221; that first season but we led the charge!).</p>
<p>Hope I didn&#8217;t burst your bubble too much, but there are many differences with this team as it was back in 1968 or 1973.</p>
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		<title>By: TJ</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/the-2013-mets-have-no-chance-to-win-however.html#comment-367148</link>
		<dc:creator>TJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2013 22:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=108983#comment-367148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Doobs,
That first paragraph was brutal.  Thanks for ore-opening those semi-forgotten wounds. :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doobs,<br />
That first paragraph was brutal.  Thanks for ore-opening those semi-forgotten wounds. <img src='http://smhttp.18058.nexcesscdn.net/808D60/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ed Leyro</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/the-2013-mets-have-no-chance-to-win-however.html#comment-367073</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Leyro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2013 18:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=108983#comment-367073</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If Mets fans didn&#039;t think their team was going to win, then there would be no point in watching any games at all.  But they do watch the games.  And the reason they watch is because they want to see their team win.  That&#039;s why I watch them.  And that&#039;s why I expect them to compete for a playoff spot until the schedule says it&#039;s not possible.  Let&#039;s go Mets!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Mets fans didn&#8217;t think their team was going to win, then there would be no point in watching any games at all.  But they do watch the games.  And the reason they watch is because they want to see their team win.  That&#8217;s why I watch them.  And that&#8217;s why I expect them to compete for a playoff spot until the schedule says it&#8217;s not possible.  Let&#8217;s go Mets!</p>
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		<title>By: Mr North Jersey</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/the-2013-mets-have-no-chance-to-win-however.html#comment-367038</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr North Jersey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=108983#comment-367038</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;We wont win this season. We wont compete this season. We wont be any good this season. Okay, now that that’s settled, lets go ‘Play Ball’ this season and see what happens.&quot;

I have to say that your opening comment got right to the point. :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We wont win this season. We wont compete this season. We wont be any good this season. Okay, now that that’s settled, lets go ‘Play Ball’ this season and see what happens.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have to say that your opening comment got right to the point. <img src='http://smhttp.18058.nexcesscdn.net/808D60/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Alan from AZ</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/the-2013-mets-have-no-chance-to-win-however.html#comment-367034</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan from AZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=108983#comment-367034</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I like the idea that the 2013 Mets season is not over before it starts, I don&#039;t believe that we Met fans should be crazed because we are not yet playoff ready. There are lots of reasons to be positive about this season as we build a better team. 

I do take issue with the idea that Tom Seaver was not yet a very good pitcher before the 1969 season. Seaver was already far and away the best pitcher that ever played for them after his rookie season in 1967. Winning 32 games with the 67 and 68 teams was damn good with ERA&#039;s well under 3.00 new, with less hits allowed than innings pitched and new records for strikeouts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I like the idea that the 2013 Mets season is not over before it starts, I don&#8217;t believe that we Met fans should be crazed because we are not yet playoff ready. There are lots of reasons to be positive about this season as we build a better team. </p>
<p>I do take issue with the idea that Tom Seaver was not yet a very good pitcher before the 1969 season. Seaver was already far and away the best pitcher that ever played for them after his rookie season in 1967. Winning 32 games with the 67 and 68 teams was damn good with ERA&#8217;s well under 3.00 new, with less hits allowed than innings pitched and new records for strikeouts.</p>
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		<title>By: L.J.Phipps</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/the-2013-mets-have-no-chance-to-win-however.html#comment-367001</link>
		<dc:creator>L.J.Phipps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2013 14:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=108983#comment-367001</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Any given season, they can win it all, but the prospects are slim. If they could win with Timo, Benny A, &amp; who else in 2000, maybe Duda, Capt Kirk, &amp; Byrd can pull something together in 2013. Lets Go Mets!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any given season, they can win it all, but the prospects are slim. If they could win with Timo, Benny A, &amp; who else in 2000, maybe Duda, Capt Kirk, &amp; Byrd can pull something together in 2013. Lets Go Mets!</p>
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		<title>By: Tommy2cat</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/the-2013-mets-have-no-chance-to-win-however.html#comment-366976</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommy2cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=108983#comment-366976</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From an historical standpoint, you can see the footprint this current team is beginning to form, which is predicated on pitching.

Its a very good sign because if you can pitch, you can compete. The Giants have reinforced that principle in two of the last 3 years. Its true in any sport, really, and its call &quot;stopping your opponent.&quot;

Recently, the team&#039;s greatest setback was in Omar&#039;s decision to dismantle the bullpen after the 2006 season, which was a central component to its success. Grab the early lead with Reyes, Wright, Beltran &amp; Delgado and then put the opponent in a choke-hold for the final 2-3 innings.

We are going to surprise a lot of teams, scouts and fans this year because despite losing RA Dickey, this team is deeper and more experienced on the mound with fewer question marks than in the past few seasons.

The rotation: Santana, Harvey, Niese, Marcum, Gee (Wheeler, Mejia, Familia, Hefner, Laffey, McHugh, Gorski) - we&#039;re almost 2-deep in the rotation.

The bullpen: Parnell, Francisco, Lyon, Familia, Ramirez, Mejia, Hawkins, Burke, Edgin, Carson, Gorski, Laffey &amp; Feliciano. Again, we&#039;re almost 2-deep in available arms.

My expectation for the rotation is that Santana &amp; Marcum will begin the season healthy, but are at risk as the season progresses. By season&#039;s end, we could be talking about a rotation of &quot;Harvey, Niese, Wheeler, Gorski &amp; Gee&quot; and the buds of 2014 will blossom earlier than expected. I happen to think highly of Gorski.

My expectation for the bullpen is that Parnell, Lyon, Burke, Familia, Edgin &amp; Carson will step forward. I really don&#039;t know what to expect from Hawkins, Ramirez, Mejia, Laffey &amp; Feliciano.

The real fun begins 2014-2015 when guys like Fulmer, Montero, Mateo &amp; Tapia step forward. My sense is that most MLB teams are going to be very, very uncomfortable at Citi Field.

And that&#039;s when you&#039;ll find me in the stands to take in a random game, just as wide-eyed as the 8-year old that witnessed the Miracle Mets in 1969.  Baseball springs eternal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From an historical standpoint, you can see the footprint this current team is beginning to form, which is predicated on pitching.</p>
<p>Its a very good sign because if you can pitch, you can compete. The Giants have reinforced that principle in two of the last 3 years. Its true in any sport, really, and its call &#8220;stopping your opponent.&#8221;</p>
<p>Recently, the team&#8217;s greatest setback was in Omar&#8217;s decision to dismantle the bullpen after the 2006 season, which was a central component to its success. Grab the early lead with Reyes, Wright, Beltran &amp; Delgado and then put the opponent in a choke-hold for the final 2-3 innings.</p>
<p>We are going to surprise a lot of teams, scouts and fans this year because despite losing RA Dickey, this team is deeper and more experienced on the mound with fewer question marks than in the past few seasons.</p>
<p>The rotation: Santana, Harvey, Niese, Marcum, Gee (Wheeler, Mejia, Familia, Hefner, Laffey, McHugh, Gorski) &#8211; we&#8217;re almost 2-deep in the rotation.</p>
<p>The bullpen: Parnell, Francisco, Lyon, Familia, Ramirez, Mejia, Hawkins, Burke, Edgin, Carson, Gorski, Laffey &amp; Feliciano. Again, we&#8217;re almost 2-deep in available arms.</p>
<p>My expectation for the rotation is that Santana &amp; Marcum will begin the season healthy, but are at risk as the season progresses. By season&#8217;s end, we could be talking about a rotation of &#8220;Harvey, Niese, Wheeler, Gorski &amp; Gee&#8221; and the buds of 2014 will blossom earlier than expected. I happen to think highly of Gorski.</p>
<p>My expectation for the bullpen is that Parnell, Lyon, Burke, Familia, Edgin &amp; Carson will step forward. I really don&#8217;t know what to expect from Hawkins, Ramirez, Mejia, Laffey &amp; Feliciano.</p>
<p>The real fun begins 2014-2015 when guys like Fulmer, Montero, Mateo &amp; Tapia step forward. My sense is that most MLB teams are going to be very, very uncomfortable at Citi Field.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s when you&#8217;ll find me in the stands to take in a random game, just as wide-eyed as the 8-year old that witnessed the Miracle Mets in 1969.  Baseball springs eternal.</p>
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		<title>By: DrDooby</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/the-2013-mets-have-no-chance-to-win-however.html#comment-366924</link>
		<dc:creator>DrDooby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2013 07:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=108983#comment-366924</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A couple of other moments that were heart-breaking over the past 25 years would be Kenny Rogers walking in the series-winning run in extra innings during the NLCS in 1999, Timo Perez getting thrown out at home in WS G 1 of 2000, Mike Piazza popping up against David Cone in the 5th inning of WS G 4 and finally the groundball up the middle on Al Leiter´s 140th or so pitch in WS G 5 of that same year. 

Being a Mets fan makes you tougher for sure. And it let´s you enjoy the good moments more thoroughly, I suppose after all the hardship that led up to them. 

Even during the last 3 playoff appearances, the Mets appeared sort of like underdogs: 
1999 with a very questionable rotation beyond Al Leiter and maybe Rick Reed, plus a shaky outfield
2000 without a real SS and a disastrous OF (for a playoff team)
2006 without any sort of rotation due to injuries - heck the playoff rotation basically was Glavine - Trachsel - Maine - Ollie Perez - the latter two not anywhere on the radar before. 

Basically the last 3 Mets playoff teams had rosters with serious flaws. 
The 1986 team pretty much was the only Mets team ever that was &quot;expected&quot; to win (the 1988 Mets may have been even more talented - but they ran into Orel Hershiser and a hot enough LAD team at the wrong time and lacked the luck &amp; swagger of the 1986 team)...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of other moments that were heart-breaking over the past 25 years would be Kenny Rogers walking in the series-winning run in extra innings during the NLCS in 1999, Timo Perez getting thrown out at home in WS G 1 of 2000, Mike Piazza popping up against David Cone in the 5th inning of WS G 4 and finally the groundball up the middle on Al Leiter´s 140th or so pitch in WS G 5 of that same year. </p>
<p>Being a Mets fan makes you tougher for sure. And it let´s you enjoy the good moments more thoroughly, I suppose after all the hardship that led up to them. </p>
<p>Even during the last 3 playoff appearances, the Mets appeared sort of like underdogs:<br />
1999 with a very questionable rotation beyond Al Leiter and maybe Rick Reed, plus a shaky outfield<br />
2000 without a real SS and a disastrous OF (for a playoff team)<br />
2006 without any sort of rotation due to injuries &#8211; heck the playoff rotation basically was Glavine &#8211; Trachsel &#8211; Maine &#8211; Ollie Perez &#8211; the latter two not anywhere on the radar before. </p>
<p>Basically the last 3 Mets playoff teams had rosters with serious flaws.<br />
The 1986 team pretty much was the only Mets team ever that was &#8220;expected&#8221; to win (the 1988 Mets may have been even more talented &#8211; but they ran into Orel Hershiser and a hot enough LAD team at the wrong time and lacked the luck &amp; swagger of the 1986 team)&#8230;</p>
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