27
2013
Sandy Alderson On Leadoff Position, Kirk Nieuwenhuis, Ruben Tejada, Expectations
An article by 
Joe D.
It’s been widely reported that Kirk Nieuwenhuis will be strongly considered as a leadoff candidate this season despite a 31% strikeout percentage, a low contact rate and on-base percentage, and a poor batting eye.
Assuming he could improve his on-base and strikeout rates a little, his batting eye still is what it is, and he doesn’t fit the mold of an ideal leadoff man even if it’s only against right-handed pitching.
What’s troubling is that Kirk was at his worst when he worked deeper into counts – I’m talking 3-2 and 3-1 counts.
Are there some positives about Kirk that we don’t see that you can shed some light on, or is this simply a case of not having any better options right now?
Sandy Alderson
I think Kirk will be the first to admit he has some things to work on this Spring. In his case, cutting down on strikeouts, improving on-base percentage; these are all goals, but not solutions. Kirk and a few others are working on a variety of things that will contribute to a lower strikeout rate, a higher on-base percentage, and more power.
That comes from better command of the strike zone, and better command of the strike zone comes from better pitch recognition, and a better understanding of strengths and weaknesses. In trying to get Kirk to improve in these areas, it’s a matter of looking at those areas and having a plan for what he’s going to try and do for those pitches.
I think there are a number of candidates for the leadoff spot, but we will see how that competition goes. Nieuwenhuis needs to improve, Matt den Dekker needs to improve. We have Collin Cowgill, who is a right-handed hitter. Where do Mike Baxter and Jordany Valdespin fit in? Again, it’s not a perfect scenario, but under current circumstances, these players aren’t ideal candidates, keeping the basic leadoff characteristics in mind.
Joe D.
Lets face it, the team has struggled to find a leadoff hitter ever since we lost Jose Reyes. Do you see yourself ultimately filling the leadoff position from the current group of in-house candidates and hope that one of them emerges and grows into the leadoff hitter role or are you keeping your eyes open for an external solution?
Basically, what I want to know is how are you going to tackle and improve this issue moving forward?
Sandy Alderson
I wouldn’t focus exclusively on the leadoff position. If you go back to the leadoff position, our run production was pretty good. Now we had Jose all that season, so the leadoff spot was well filled. Last year, we didn’t score as many runs. It wasn’t simply a result of doing less well in the leadoff position. Ruben Tejada’s walk rate did drop significantly from the year before and from first half tot he second half. But one of the reasons we went after Michael Bourn was because we didn’t see a lot of good solutions in-house. We didn’t view Bourn as the perfect free agent for us, but he does a lot of positive things. Defense, leading off, speed, etc. There’s a guy who strikes out a lot, by the way. So, we recognize they’re hard to find, and when they come up we have to take a hard look at it.
I just think, realistically, you’re not going to find the perfect leadoff man in a Spring Training trade. It’s probably not going to happen. You’re just going to have to take a shot with somebody, and hope they grow into it. Or, recognize the limitations of the people you have and emphasize the importance of doing certain things. So for example, with Ruben, it’s about getting on-base. He’s not going to steal bases, but if we can get him back to a .360 OBP, we will take it.
Final Thoughts
I appreciated the time Sandy took to respond to my questions, and I felt he provided me with a lot of insight into how he views Kirk Nieuwenhuis and some of the other leadoff candidates in camp. Considering most of our options have no speed, I was surprised he didn’t add Daniel Murphy into the equation.
It’s obvious he sees the dilemma and isn’t locked into the current situation – and he shouldn’t be. He seemed sincere when he told us he really wanted to get Bourn and Justin Upton as well.
He admits the leadoff solution will not be resolved this Spring as most of us probably already knew. But honestly there was a part of me that was hoping for some late surprise deal, something that won’t happen.
Ruben Tejada seems like Plan B, but he regressed last season and that’s a big concern. The new outfielders we brought in all bat right-handed and won’t win regular jobs.
It’s something that will have to be resolved next offseason it seems, unless we actually acquire a star at this year’s trade deadline rather than trading one away.
Thanks to MetsBlog for transcribing and go read the full interview here. But make sure to come back and comment here! 
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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So Sandy “does not see the current situation as an ideal one.” It’s not like he was in a position to do anything about the current situation, was he?
He wasn’t? Didn’t you hear he was going after Michael Bourn? LOL Just kidding I never believed it either.
GMs are always in a position to do something to improve the team. Especially those who rate high in creativity. If not, they don’t deserve the job. Thanks for passing through.
You mean we’re not going to bring back Alex Torres or Ronny Cedeno back? Oh, damn forgot they signed elsewhere and we got us some Cowgill now.
Should be Andres Torres, but I doubt anybody really cares. LOL
So many trying to forget him I doubt they would have caught the wrong name! LOL
After one look at Cedeno”s wife, I wouldn’t have had any isues had they brought him back. I was going to plant a video camera in the players family lounge
Joe you coulda asked tougher questions than that. You used your once a year opportunity to talk to the guy to ask him about Capt. Kirk?
31% k rate is the same as a low contact rate right? So that’s redundant. In other words, Capt Kirk struck out a real lot. I know he struck out an exorbitant amount, i don’t need the “rate”.
So when did you change your baseball language?
Ohhh you appreciated the time he took to answer your question? Sigh……
I hope that Conference Call wasn’t recorded cuz i have no desire to hear it if it sounded anything like last year’s KissButtFest that sounded like an economics symposium being held at NYU.
Yep agreed. Get ready for for an avalanche of puff pieces in the morning with bloggers falling all over each other to see who can praise Sanderson the most. I might skip Thursday morning reading.
My point is Joe D has spend the last year with some really, really solid hard hitting pieces questioning Alderson’s methods. And at the same time Joe D is a lot more fairer in assessing Salderson than I am, gives him credit when need be, and all of that. But he also has lambasted him a lot. And in my opinion those are the posts that are SOOO important because practically every other blog kisses Alderson’s toes and lights candles when they leave his presence.
We had the off seasons, did he forego competition in order of higher drafts, and so many other great stories questioning Alderson’s motives, moves, etc (and i’m not about to go back and cite them all)…so much has happened.
And he takes this rare opportunity he has to talk to the man….
and he asks him about Kirk Nieuwenhuis??????????
Very disappointing.
IMO, there is no way that Sandy is intentionally trying to lose in order to get a higher draft pick. Just not reasonable to assume that for any reason. If he is not cashing in chips to “go for it” fully in 2013 it is because of balancing building for the future too impacting moves.
In terms of the questions, at this point, heading into the season questions pertaining to the final roster and line up (with who is batting lead off being the big one) make a ton of sense to ask. Beating old history and making broad assertions that he is just going to deny or brush off won’t add any value.
Me, I would much rather learn something pertaining to the season.
Hi Bayonne. I just don’t know what you wanted him to ask to be honest. I mean can we be honest for a second – do you really think it’s in Joe’s and MMO’s best interest to ask “did you forego competing for draft picks?”
Answer: No
Moderator: Okay Mets Police you’re up.
Fast forward to next conference call: Sorry Mets Merized, not invited.
I mean there are times to ask tough questions. That ain’t one of them because it’s a roll call atmosphere. They literally list off the blogs/writers and you get called, ask your question and usually mute your phone right after.
It’s not like a setup where you have him in front of him and you’re essentially working together with everybody asking questions to get to “the story.”
I hope I explain that right. I don’t think your desire to ask him a tougher question is off base, I just think it’s not the time or place – Joe took the opportunity to ask him a question that was relevant to a discussion/debate MMO has been having. He added to the story by getting a perspective we’d rarely get.
“I know he struck out an exorbitant amount, i don’t need the “rate”.”
LOL. This isn’t even something created by “sabergooners,” “sandy lovers,” or “nerds who have never played a sport in their life”. It’s just how often he struck out.
I wouldn’t exactly call that a meatball Bayonne….
I mean he did ask a question about Leadoff which is a missing piece created by the FO himself and mentioned the guy he let go who resulted in creating that hole….
You can’t get all Woodward and Bernstien or Mike Wallace on him and if you ask a question (I’m sure Sandy didn’t really want to talk about that hole) nicely he has no excuse to not answer….
Come at him like a Pitbull and he will simply turn the question and tone back on you and avoid it without having to say a thing…..
If you even tried to take him to task all he would have said was It’s Spring Training and we are going to see what we have….A typical I don’t like your question so I cliche you and move on….
JoeD did just fine there…
Yeah – I am surprised that the same people that talk with dripping sarcasm about THE CORE, et. al. gave the Grand Sand Man such an easy question. Man up and throw a hardball at him. You do it here all the time , right?
I don’t know if you’re suggesting I threw a softball, but why not compare my question to everyone else’s? Otherwise pipe down.
And when Sandy tried to move on from my initial question to the next writer, I said, “hold on there Sandy, I need to ask you a follow up,” and I did.
Pretty sure I was the only one on the call that did that. But you can ask one of the other writers to validate that if you don’t believe me. Not that I care what you think about me.
I write about the Mets for myself and not anyone else’s benefit. Been doing it for 14 years and on MMO for 9 years. Maybe you’ll be here for 2014 when we celebrate 10 years of MMO. Not too many can say that. It was only me, Matt Cerrone and Al Gore back then. Thanks for commenting.
Joe D: Maybe I missed something but did the Stanton trade rumor come up at all from anybody.
Just a simple question was a trade discussed or is it being discussed and would you rather keep Wheeler and d’Arnaud.
No nobody asked while I participated. When he answered my questions I hung up and didn’t stick around. I don’t think anyone would have brought it up though because as I warned when I posted it on MMO, don’t take that rumor seriously.
I thought it was bogus and repeatedly said to lets just talk about the hypothetical possibilities for a good debate.
The dead giveaway the rumor seemed fishy was that it had the Mets getting Juan Pierre back. The Marlins can’t trade Pierre until June 15 because he was just signed as a free agent. That’s in the rules of the CBA.
Hypothetically? Yes, I would trade D’Arnaud and Wheeler for Stanton. I’d do that in a heartbeat and would drive Travis and Zack to the airport myself.
Joe. D.
Thanks.
You would Joe? I would have to think long and hard about that. While, yes Stanton is one of the premier power hitters in the game and very valuable, but combined, d’Arnaud and Wheeler could have as big or a bigger impact than Stanton alone would. Of course, that’s if they live up to the potential. In my opinion, if the FO REALLY believes in d’Arnaud and Wheeler, then it’s not a smart move to make.
If Stanton were still a prospect, he would be the NO. 1 prospect in baseball, so I’d be trading two lesser prospects for the best.
But Stanton isn’t a prospect, he’s a 3 year vet and an All Star on a Hall of Fame trajectory. Plus he’s younger than D’Arnaud who has yet to get a sip of coffee.
You can also look at it this way… Would you trade Beltran and Dickey for Stanton?
Think about it.
Hey Connor, your 2013 Mets Projections are a hit and two of the ones you did got over 10,000 reads.
its actually for stanton, noah and the OF Tor gave….
I am pretty sure they can trade Pierre with player consent.
I think they are making a grave mistake by focusing Kirk on his on-base-percentage. I don’t think Kirk is the type of hitter where that should be the forefront of his conscience in trying to improve. Kirk has to focus on driving the ball and on base percentage can cause him to take pitches that he would normally drive.
I can’t STAND this philosophy, it’s going to ruin some of these hitters and for a collective bunch like this that’s not particularly strong, having so many 4th/5th OFers, p/t players being indoctrinated into this type of approach is going to cause this team some problems. Outside of Davis & Wright primarily…….this type of approach with the rest of the hitters is gonna not be good. These teams will tell their pitchers to go after them. You don’t want to walk bixlers/cowgills/browns/bucks, etc. Those are guys I would challenge to beat me if i were the other team and now that i know their philosophy that’s how i would approach it. Those are not talented people.
How can they NOT focus on Kirk’s OBP especially when he’s the odd’s on favorite to be the leadoff hitter? That doesn’t make any sense Bayonne. I can see if he were the cleanup or number five hitter, but they see him as a leadoff type.
Well he’s NOT a leadoff type. And they can think about his on base percentage all they want. Kirk hit just fine last year before he fell off the table. I would first approach him with video and talk to him about what he was doing then instead of completely changing him. And maybe pitchers where learning about his weaknesses and you confront him with that and work with it from there.
It makes PERFECT sense. Kirk is a guy who can drive in runs, he’s not a leadoff hitter. I’ll submit that he may wind up doing it from time to time in spot situations but i’ll bet you he’s not going to wind up being a leadoff hitter in his career even though they’re trying it now.
Batting 1st .264/.303/.456/.759
Batting 2nd or 8th (2nd and 3rd most lineup appearances) his numbers aren’t even close. His OPS is below .700, his average is .242.
.278 average, .337 obp, .478 slg .815 OPS when leading off an inning
I am not sure if he is a leadoff hitter, but I won’t write it off yet. I think the idea of a leadoff hitter is a tad overrated anyway. Jose Reyes has 5,556 plate appearances in his career and in 3,357 of those – he didn’t bat 1st in the inning.
I mean don’t get me wrong I get the IDEA of it but it’s not make or break.
he does have 1 important attribute. He is fast, so can score with the best hitters coming up behind him (when on base of course)
How fast does he really need to be? I think speed is more useful as an outfielder than a baserunner.
enough to not clock up the basebaths. Score from 1st on a double, 2nd on a short single, be able to got 1st third.
Someone like Murphy is probably fast enough. Duda, no!
“That comes from better command of the strike zone, and better command of the strike zone comes from better pitch recognition, and a better understanding of strengths and weaknesses. In trying to get Kirk to improve in these areas, it’s a matter of looking at those areas and having a plan for what he’s going to try and do for those pitches.”
Square peg meet round hole.
Matt, let me just say that I was actually going to go into this asking Alderson to look at what his expectations were in October, think about what his stated goals were to the fans during the WFAN interview, and have him grade himself based on how the offseason ended up.
Then I read your post today. It really bothered me and all day I was wrestling with the idea of confronting him on Kirk, the leadoff spot now and what the plan was for the future, or sticking with my original concerns.
Had I not read your post, I was planning a completely different line of questioning.
So thank you and take a bow.
Thanks Joe,
I love tinkering with numbers, but beyond some High School ball and some on and off coaching I’m certainly no expert. If I were working with Kirk I’d keep it simple and tone down the expectations as far as OBP in the lead-off spot. I’d have him focus on tracking breaking pitches. I wouldn’t even bother with location, I’d simply have him practice tracking breaking pitches (without swinging) right into the glove (like Reyes used to do). I’m convinced Kirk’s problem is his vertical line of sight, pitchers lure him down and away then they bust him up and in. Eventually he can practice either laying off the breaking pitch in the dirt or punching it into left field if he can reach it, but overwhelming him with working the count and waiting on a pitch “in your zone” and getting on base and stealing and the requirements of a lead-off hitter is, I’m afraid, going to mess the kid up much as it did last year. Put him in the 6 or 7 spot, let him focus on ONE THING (the breaking pitch) & be thankful you have a CF who can handle the position — any offense he generates is a bonus. I don’t know, I could be wrong, maybe I’m underestimating Kirk’s learning curve (the coaching staff certainly know him better than we do), but we’ll see soon enough. He’s just not a lead-off hitter, never has been.
Bottom line is we don’t really have a good candidate for a lead off hitter right now.
Someone might step up and fill those shoes but I expect to see a revolving door in that one spot – same as I expect in the OF this season.
makes sense. Like with the OF, if you don’t have a guy that is a perfect fit, you mix/match with what you have game to game to put the best lineup out there.
We could have had Campana for next to nothing, but nooooo … why? Because we were so focused on Bourne? Because Campana is a lefty? Never mind that Campana may very well put up better lead-off numbers over the next 5 years than Bourne …
“Because Campana is a lefty? ”
So was Bourn so I doubt highly that was a deterrent….
Hi Joe,
Two questions if you have the opportunity to answer them.
1) I recall you once mentioning (and apologies if I am paraphrasing it incorrectly) that Sandy did not come across completely sincere or honest when talking with him in the past. What was your reaction when he brought up going after Bourn – when we know he would not sign him under current CBA rules which he did not bother to address when learning the Mets were bumped to number eleven in next June’s draft. Do you think that was for show?
2) When he said “better command of the strike zone comes from better pitch recognition” did you sense he might been referring to the subject we’ve been debating today about hunting for a pitch down the middle?
BTW – I think you did your job properly – letting Alderson be the focus of attention with his answers more than the it being the reporter with his questions.
That comes from better command of the strike zone, and better command of the strike zone comes from better pitch recognition, and a better understanding of strengths and weaknesses. In trying to get Kirk to improve in these areas, it’s a matter of looking at those areas and having a plan for what he’s going to try and do for those pitches.
Okay that’s what Sandy said right? A direct quote?
What is he talking about? he seems to be running around in circles. If Kirk were to gain a better understanding of his strengths and weaknesses that doesn’t mean he will automatically improve in those areas even with more hard work.
Alderson missed something very important that you mentioned and that he never responded to, his batting eye. A players batting eye is what helps batters pitch recognition. It comes from a split second reaction once the ball is released, it’s hardly something you can improve on. Carlos Beltran was part of a large group of players who used to work out at a Texas based clinic where they tried to improve their batting eye by putting a colored spot on a ball and they would have to try and guess the color. There was minimal improvement and it did not lead to increased OBP and most coaches and clinics have abandoned the drill.
Most batters if you want to improve is to focus on the zone, if you’re looking at a pitchers release point by the time your eyes readjust to look at the zone and hope for your pitch it’s too late. What ends up happening is the batter relies on guessing and that leads to poor contact rates.
Maybe your question was better suited for a hitting coach because Sandy’s response to you was completely wrong and you should have called him our on it. Your question was great, but you let him get away with saying something that was completely irrational. You should have hammered him on that with your followup.
It sounds like you only got one questions and it was good so maybe it wasn’t the right forum, but his response for Kirk’s anticipated improvement is not going to work if they have him concentrating on pitch selections. Even the greatest hitters will tell you they look for a pitch in their wheelhouse, hopefully a fastball or frequently a mistake pitch like a breaking ball that didn’t break.
If you have an opportunity to ask that same question to and hitting coach, I can assure you they wouldn’t give a response like Sandy did. And if you told them what Sandy said they would probably laugh.
I’m not knocking you and actually after reading the full interview on Metsblog, you asked one of the best questions of the night. It was relevant, it directly impacts this season, the fact that Reyes has yet to be replaced was key (they never had a Plan B), and it was about how he plans to address this glaring hole in the future. Nice job.
Batters don’t “watch the zone” they watch the ball from release TO the zone. Gotta keep that eye on the ball.
“A players batting eye is what helps batters pitch recognition. It comes from a split second reaction once the ball is released, it’s hardly something you can improve on.”
Exactly!
Any good scout will tell you that.
I would’ve asked why they moved Jordany back to the infield if they insisted he play the OF this winter…
First off as a said in MattBs piece Valdespin is really the ONLY guy who seems to fit and have the potential to be a leadoff hitter….
But he has no pace to play….
Kirk is not it from what I see his bat is too out of control for the role. Kirk wants to hit doubles and Homers…His Swing suggests this…
As to what Sandy said regarding his imporvement it was in relation to Kirk not making him a better leadoff hitter….
Kirks issues last year were high and inside…Couldn’t hit it and couldn’t lay off it….
So what Sandy was speaking to actually was smart for once…
Kirk need to identify pitches, learn what to do with differet pitches in different locations and he will reduce the Ks and get the OBP up….
Not that it will make him a leadoff hitter but it will do enough to settle for him there until the solve the issue….
Cause lets face it there really is no one else….Except Valdespin who has no place to play the field….
Fact is, the Mets do not have an ideal / typical leadoff candidate on the major league roster right now.
Basically, the Nieuwenhuis / Cowgill platoon or Tejada is the choice by default. If Baxter is the RF vs. RHP, he may be a 3rd choice. None of the three options is an ideal choice. However, at least the three have the upside to post a .350 OBP – which is what you´re looking for in a leadoff hitter.
It won´t be Duda, Davis or Wright. It can´t be Buck.
Murphy probably has more value as a “tough out” elsewhere in the order.
Valdespin has the physical tools – but unless he drastically ups his OBP, you can´t bat a guy with a .300 OBP leadoff.
So, one of Alderson´s main tasks over the next 12+ months will be to find a better leadoff option, ideally a high OBP bat with some speed, preferably an outfielder considering the current makeup of the roster.
And obviously, from a grander scheme of things, 2013 has to be the final “rebuilding” season. For 2014, even those who agree with Alderson´s direction or even are totally fascinated by his approach, will expect a contender.
“Valdespin has the physical tools – but unless he drastically ups his OBP, you can´t bat a guy with a .300 OBP leadoff.”
In 2005, Jose Reyes scored 99 Runs with a .300 OBP in a weak lineup…and was considered one of the best leadoff men in baseball…
all this talk about OBP is a lil overblown..
but i expect it to come back when we need another excuse as to why we shouldnt sign Carlos Gomez…
Damaja – In 2005, Reyes was not considered a top leadoff hitter he was considered a top SS. And if he was, that doesn’t say much. Was he a better leadoff hitter than Jeter? Jeter didn’t nearly have the speed Jose had but he got on base 38% of the time compared to 30% which created more run opportunities for the 2-3-4 hitters.
Almost the entire time Reyes was here pre-Alderson the 1 knock on Reyes’ on the field performance was always his inability to get on base more.
If you want to have a leadoff hitter in the traditional context then getting on base is clearly the most important part. I can live with the idea that OBP for a 4-5 type hitter is less important. I agree with that, I prefer SLG % first. But if you want to say a leadoff hitter is supposed to “set the table” then OBP is the most important stat because you cannot set the table if you’re not in the kitchen.
I think I read somewhere about how Valdespin took a lot more walks during winter ball but who knows if that will translate to the majors.
Joe,
Good job, his answers prove that, as he didn’t really have any. Lead off sure looks likes a black hole. I expect Tejada to end up there as the least objectionable option, but it is a gaping hole.
Why on earth does everyone seem to agree that Ruben Tejada has regressed? Simply not true. he is the one guy on the team who has control of the strike zone, which will get better, is hitting for average, striking out less than anyone and has gained some weight as he matures and should have a bit of power, certainly as much power as Murphy showed last year. And, he is a much better baserunner than all of them
What is the prejudice against Ruben. Is everyone blind?
Not me. He hasn’t regressed, he’s simply gotten better every year of his development so far. People in this numbers drunk induced haze, saber age are more detached from reality now then in the past and are simply not satisfied unless a player is statistically appealing in every single category. It’s unrealistic way to view baseball.
Don’t know where you saw that Bayonne. Comment’s 100% false.
You are the one that’s wrong. It is 100% TRUE. His batting average was higher, his doubles increased and he did it in around 140 or so more ABs than his previous year, and his defense is improving nothwithstanding the fact that he’s been switched between 2B & SS since he’s come up.
And this is a kid that many people had pegged to be a utility player at best if he made the team at all. And this was 3 years ago when people were saying they’d be happy if they can get .250 – .260 out of Tejada as long as his D was solid.
He’s still learning but he has gotten BETTER each year.
Meant to say I completely AGREE (as I said in my projections) that Tejada is improving. He certaily is. Everything else that you slipped in there is completely untrue,
I wonder if Joe was comparing 1st half to 2nd half because it did appear in the 2nd half that Tejada took a step back when the first half he appeared to take 1 step forward.
He had a below average 2nd half, so that could be the concern? If Tejada for a season is 1st half Tejada – I don’t think anybody has a problem with that.
First off lets not orget here that Tejadas samples in the first half were pretty small as he missed 30+ games in the first half last year….
As for his decline I think that was purely talking about his OBP not his hitting in general.
Remember it was in relation to him being a leadoff hitter and Sandy was the one who focused on OBP and Tejada’s abilty to hit leadoff.
Just for the records sake….
Tejada had a .381 OBP (.325 BA) in the first half (182 PA)
But a .306 OBP (.269 BA) in the 2nd half (319 PA)
His first half was when everyone was hitting and the second half when no one was hitting all that well….
Ha Ha! So can you say the same thing about Ruben as these people say about Wright when they say “well he needs to have better players around him!”
Ha Ha!
Also OBP can take into account various other things that have NOTHING to do with your ability to hit – which is why you are a major leaguer to begin with. Things like wild pitchers and walks don’t tell me how good a hitter is. His batting AVG does. And his batting AVG has been higher each year. And to be honest even I didn’t think he would hit .280 so soon.
What the hell is untrue? Don’t tell me i’m stating untrue facts. You especially.
His D IS BETTER considering he had many more chances than the previous year so even though he had more error he also had a LOT more chances, his fielding pct was better than the previous year. And you HAVE to take into consideration he’s been switching between 2 positions.
He had over 140 more ABS than the previous year. That’s not true?
And the part about when i said what people were thinking about him 3 years ago is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. You weren’t even here than so how DARE you say what i said wasn’t true.
You don’t even know what the hell you’re talking about. What? Because is OBP was lower in 2012 than 2011 while he had more doubles and hit for a higher AVG? Is that all you got?
“People in this numbers drunk induced haze, saber age are more detached from reality now then in the past and are simply not satisfied unless a player is statistically appealing in every single category. It’s unrealistic way to view baseball.”
Bayonne you’re completely missing my point. Tejada has gotten so much better. I remember when he came up and the hope was .250-.260, but he has been muich better than that. I don’t know what you’re talking about. Tejada is much better.
Connor I think you may be missing the point…Bayonne IS saying Tejada has gotten better!
Only someone who looked at OBP has said he declined from years past….
Who? Lol
Sandy is the one who said it…..
“Ruben Tejada’s walk rate did drop significantly from the year before and from first half tot he second half.”
And it did. And his high BA in the first half seems to be the product of some development and some luck.
Yes it did drop, which is a concern. but he has improved overall as a player.
Well just for the record and clarity…
I don’t care what his OBP is if his BA is still going up.
I’m not particularly obsessed with OBP…
The Higher the BA then I know the Higher OBP is without even looking….
And while some of those 2011 walks may have converted to 2012 Ks when I see the numbers 27 vs 35 BB it says to me that at best we are talking less than 10 PAs where there was a major difference of conversion and the other Ks were other types of outs before (GB or GDPs even) that were K’s instead.
He put it in play in 2011 and didn’t in 2012…So I’m not concerned about a lack of walks if anything I would say he had a problem with contact.
WHich if the BA is up shouldn’t really concern someone since the contact he was making in 2011 didn’t result in a hit anyway.
His batting average dropped in the second half. As did his slugging. And BB%.
Also, in the first half, he had a crazy high BABIP. That also dropped in the second half. This can be attributed to 2 things.
1) His luck evening out
2) he hit fewer line drives and fly balls and more grounders. Grounders turn into outs most frequently.
Tejada improved from previous years in everything but OBP! (and because of OBP the OPS as well)
And that was really only down from the previous year where he had a .360 OBP (.284 BA) to a .333 OBP (but hit .289)
Except strike outs. and his ISO was higher in 2010.
His good numbers for last year were built on a first half that seems to have involved a lot of luck.
Luck? Maybe…Could also be all the LHPs we saw in the first half until Terry started playing the B Team whenever a LHP was faced….
I have no idea what that means. How many more righties did they see in the second half? Did they even see more righties?
And wouldn’t the B team be all the right handed pinch hitters?
You’re statement makes no sense.
Had nothing to do with how many they faced…No one rejiggered their rotation for us….
Has to do with throwing a pitcher off with L/R Splits….
A Pitcher approaches a lefty and has a different out pitch location for a lefty than a righty….
In the first half before we started stacking the deck most of the pitchers were effective in thier LHB approach but not so well tuned into thier RHB approach.
That means he (Pitcher) was facing a lot of LHBs and could get into a groove with his LHB approach but maybe had a harder time with his RHB approach because he was not able to get into a groove….
In the Second half we threw a lot more RHBs at the Pitcher and fewer LHBs….
And as a result he could get into the zone he needed vs RHB and therefore most RHBs had a more difficult time in the 2nd Half than in the first.
If you question that theory go ask any Pitcher if he approaches LHB differetly than RHB (no matter what arm they throw with)
You will find that Most will need to work the inside vs one type and the outside to the other…
And They use different pitches to get that job done….
You let them throw to one side more than the other and one pitch more than the other he will have plenty of opportunity to get the feel of what he has to do and get on a roll….
Which is why a BALANCED L/R lineup is the most effective….
Because you are constantly forcing the Pitcher to adjust his approach after every batter!
Who said Tejada regressed?
i don’t recall seeing that comment either. People debate what exactly he brings to the table, but I don’t see them saying he went backward from 2011.
It’s in this post on Joe D’s final thoughts:
‘Ruben Tejada seems like Plan B, but he regressed last season and that’s a big concern.’
missed that. Thanks. Out of curiosity, I looked at his stats, and I guess you can argue that he did (offensively at least). BA up slightly, OBP down a lot, Slg up slightly, and overall OPS/OPS+ were down. And a lot fewer RBIs in more ABs.
The injury time might have had something to do with it, but yeah, he did step backwards in some areas.
Never mind, I missed Joe saying it the first time I read it.
His numbers did take a dive in the second half, but everyone not named Ike Davis can say the same thing. Not sure if that is regression, his luck evening out (he had a crazy high BABIP in the first half), or whatever was happening to the rest of the team.
People are too worried about speed at the top of the order. Be on base for the big hitters in the heart of the order. A guy like Tejada or Murphy can do that. Hell, if Murphy is going to smack 40+ doubles a year, that is better than most “base stealers” who get caught 20% or more anyway.
Since leadoff is the number one question mark in the lineup right now, I feel it was the right question to ask. The outfield overall is the biggest problem on the team. I like what I have read about Cowgill. It looks like he can steal bases and he maybe a big surprise this year. Also it will be interesting to see if den dekker can make the necessary adjustments.
I was intrigued by Cowgill when they got him, and from what I have seen in ST, I still am.
since they don’t have a prototypical lead off guy, he can be an option. From his MiL days, he has always had a reasonable mix of OB, speed and power. Plus he seems like one of those guys that will “do whatever it takes” no matter where he is hitting. Could also make a nice 2 hole hitter.
anyway, once the OF shakes out, then they can worry about who is the best option for lead off. Hard to make a lineup when you are not even sure who the options are!
Cowgill should get a chance to be the everyday centerfeilder and lead off man. Kirk can platoon in right with Bryd or go down and work on his strikeouts . I am fine with the platoon but I really like Cowgill and his energy and grit at the top of the line up and in center. Baxter would be where he is at his best, strictly a pinch hitter and fielding replacement.
Energy after 2 spring training games. The plan should be for Kirk or UpperDecker to be the CFer.
Cowgill is a sub.
Good questions Joe D and the only one with the stones to ask two
I’m surprised nobody asked if the decision to have Flores play some left field in camp had anything to do with them starting to put a backup plan in place in case Duda doesn’t come around…but hey, at least we know what Alderson is watching on TV these days.