27
2013
Now Batting No. 5 and Playing Left Field, Wilmer Flores
An article by 
Updated by Joe D. on 2/27
We may hear those words blare over the Citi Field PA system one day in the near future during a Mets game… Maybe…
Whether or not Wilmer Flores should be handed an outfield glove has been debated quite passionately on MMO many times over the last several months. We’ve all debated the pros and cons of such a move, and obviously so have the Mets.
As Andrew Keh of the New York Times pointed out, Flores has continued to distinguish himself as one of the more promising hitters in the Mets’ organization, but he is a player who, at the moment, seems to lack an obvious position. That said,, everything keeps pointing to the outfield.
“It’s an obvious question,” General Manager Sandy Alderson said Tuesday morning, “and we’ve considered it. Our focus is developing him as a hitter, and that’s not something we want to interfere with.”
As for Flores, he keeps saying the same thing each time he’s asked, “Sure, why not? I’ll play anywhere they ask me to play.”
Look for Flores to get some playing time in the outfield this month and next as well. It may only be an experiment for now, but it’s becoming quite clear the team is not looking to trade him and view him as a keeper. That means a position change will have to be coming…
Stay tuned…
Original Post 2/26
Last night was the first time most Mets fans got the chance to see Wilmer Flores play second base, including myself. Seeing Flores at second base was one of the main things I was focused on during last night’s game against the Washington Nationals. I’m sure other fans were focused on Flores as well, as talks about running Daniel Murphy out of town began as soon as the Mets announced that Flores would be taking reps at second base this spring.
Making the jump from third base to a middle infield position is generally a very difficult one. The switch from the middle infield to third base is much, much easier. Flores, has now made the switch from the middle infield to third base, and now back to the middle infield.
The reason why the switch from third base to the middle infield is difficult is because the positions are fundamentally different. Sure, you mechanically field the grounder the same way at third base as you would any place on the diamond, but aside from that, just about everything else is different—different reaction times, different angles off the bat, turning the double play is different, different footwork, and different positions to be on cut-offs.
Two of the main things I watched for last night was to see how Flores approached grounders hit in his direction, and how he turned the double play.
Third base is a position where the balls are generally hit sharply, so the player usually waits for the ball to get to him, rather than charge and play the ball. They may have to move laterally, but generally don’t move in on the ball unless it is a weakly hit grounder or bunt—hence being called the “hot corner.” At second base it’s the complete opposite. If the player waits for the ball to get to him, in other words, let the ball play him instead of “playing the ball,” the most routine grounders will turn into infield hits. I wanted to see if Flores took that with him to second base, because playing third base for the past couple of years could have re-programmed him mentally. Flores did a good job of “playing the ball,” and it looked as if his instincts from when he was a former shortstop are still there.
When turning the double play, Flores looked smooth. I was watching for Flores’ pivot, and how he received the throws from the shortstop. There are a couple of different ways for a second baseman to receive the toss on a double play from the left side of the infield. They can use a timing play where they try to time the toss from the left side, and come across the front of the bag to get more momentum on the throw. The other way is to wait at the bag, which generally leads to the second baseman making a flat footed throw off the back foot. Flores arm is definitely strong enough for the latter, and he demonstrated it in last night’s game.
It’s only one game, but Flores had a successful night at second base. It seems the instincts are still there from when he used to play shortstop, the arm strength is there, and now we have to see how his range is on some more challenging ground balls. Everyone will be keeping a very close eye on Flores at second base this spring, the bat is definitely there, and it seems like he may have found a home defensively.
To read previous editions of this feature, go to our MMO Prospect Pulse Archives.
Follow MMO Minor League Analyst Mitch Petanick on Twitter at @FirstPitchMitch for even more Mets Minor League and prospect coverage.
About the Author: Mitch Petanick
Mitch is currently an Editor and Minor League Analyst for Mets Merized Online. His baseball experience includes being a former All-Conference collegiate baseball player who had numerous professional tryouts, and he is currently a hitting instructor. He has been involved with the game of baseball for over 30 years now as a player, coach, and consultant. Mitch is also a former Featured Columnist on Bleacher Report. You can follow him on Twitter @FirstPitchMitch.
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I’m just happy to see people get excited about Wilmer Flores again. He’s still got youth on his side. He’s still got some development before he’s capable of being an everyday big league player. He’s still got Vegas to make everybody drool at his numbers. The only thing that keeps him off of 2B in 2014 is continued physical growth.
Flores’ soft hands, good feet and acceptable range will make him a suitable 2nd baseman. However, he also could be a viable trade chip in our pursuit for a quality MLB caliber outfielder.
Met brass appear disinclined to put him into the outfield. Valdespin is much more suitable to left field than Flores, or even Duda, for that matter. Flores is fluid and quick, but he’s also slow, which will hinder his range as an outfielder.
The more I think of it, the more I think MLB teams should consider soft rotations for certain groups of players. I could see Flores learning 1st base, so that he and Murphy have the ability to platoon at 2nd base, and either one of them could be held in ready-reserve if Ike or DW goes on the shelf for any length of time.
The purpose for soft rotations is to maintain quality depth on your team. The key is to keep everyone fresh over the course of a 162-game marathon.
It might be nice to have a young utility infielder on the team that can actually do something offensively.
I love JT for his attitude, hustle, and fundamentals but he’s not Robinson Canoe at the plate.
um, I don’t think Flores is utility.
I think his CM level must be low!.
True but it’s not unusual for a top prospect that can play multiple positions to come up and be a utility guy early in his career. Of course the key would be still finding enough AB’s. I mean this isn’t happening but imagine if he could play a little LF/RF as well. You don’t think between 2B, RF, 3B and 1B that he wouldn’t get a ton of AB’s?
However, being that he only plays the IF, I don’t think he would get enough AB’s as a utility guy with Wright and Davis locked in.
First of all, thanks Mitch for the Prospect Pulse series…I have thoroughly enjoyed and look fwd to new ones…..in regards to wilmer, I was actually watching the games last night for the same reason and was pleasantly surprised….I had heard that he will not be able to stick at 2B (toby hyde mentioned tht) but he looked quite comfortable to me considering he’s relatively new to the position…..if he can bat .280 with 15+ homers…25+ doubles….I will take tht gladly even with a little shoddy range/defense
Thanks, Rony…I was pretty impressed too from what I saw last night. I want to see if his range is really as bad as people say since I have never gotten the chance to see him play the middle infield until last night. My thought is if his range was really that bad, would they really try to transition him at this point where he could potentially lose trade value, or just trade him as a 3B while the stock is up with him. Where his range may be an issue at SS I’m thinking its probably suitable for 2B…Daniel Murphy plays there and he isn’t exactly Mr.Range lol
With advanced scouting reports they can work on positioning Flores better to make up for any range issues he might have….we will have to wait and see what happens.
This is interesting, i am sorry i went off topic, but read this:
http://deadspin.com/5986838/the-new-york-mets-latest-partnership-is-with-a-company-that-specializes-in-pyramid-schemes?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
I saw that last night. Didn’t even know Amway was still in business.
At some point, someone has to step in and stop this nonsense… Selig is getting paid by these losers i get it, but the goverment, someone has to come in and start investigating what’s going on behind the scenes with these idiots!!!!!
There is still the Amway Center in Orlando, The owner of the Magic, also is the founder of Amway.
Great read Mitch,
It’s refreshing to actually read a written piece by a person who’s played at a high level and knows what he’s talking about when talking about the GAME of baseball. That’s something we don’t see too much around here anymore when in recent times most of the writers like to discuss contracts, somebody else’s money, ridiculous saber stats or anything else that doesn’t have to do with how the game is actually played. So this is a very refreshing piece.
Also, since I never saw Flores play before and had to rely on people here for an assessment. It’s good to see that maybe he CAN manage the position after all after reading here many times that he is so bad a defender. This opens up a new debate a 2B hopefully!
Bayonne, so i take it you didn’t like the post before this one where the author wrote an article about WAR and how the mets fare on it?
I didn’t even read it.
Thanks, Bayonne.
Hi Gang,
I did not catch the double-play and because of that I had questioned Wilmur’s throwing arm which I thought seemed a little weak, however, I do recall thinking how his throw could have been affected by his balance due to not being able to get enough footing on the grounder that he made a good pick on.
I was there last night and I thought he looked really good at 2nd base. I am glad that he is back in the mix.
He made some great turns on the double plays on not such great throws to him.
With all the new prospects its good to see his name again.
The adjustment he made on the David Wright throw to turn the double play in the first inning was great.
I remember Flores at short at St Lucie and his size is both a detriment and an asset. He does not have terrific foot speed which is well chronicled. However, is a tall guy with a nice reach. What he lacks in foot speed he might make up with his reach.
Overall, with guys like Uggla playing 2B in the league, it shows, if a guy can hit, he will play. Flores will be in the majors because of his bat. I do believe he will achieve at least adequacy at 2B, enough to keep him in the big leagues.
I like Murphy as a player and hope he has a great year. At the same time, I hope Wilmer pounds the ball in Vegas. There is nothing wrong with having two guys fighting for a position. It will be a terrific position to be in if next off season Alderson needs to decide between Murphy and Flores as to which one to trade.
I’ve been begging for him to get a shot at second. Trade Murph he has decent value. Flores raw power reminds me of Cabrera & Stanton. He should be able to field at least as good as Murph probably better. But I can seee him putting up numbers like Utley did in his prime w/o the steals. I can see 30+ homers a year and an avg over 300.
Then theres Lupo obviously way further away but also has stupid power. Lupo is so advanced when it comes to control of the strike zone & pitch recognition he’s going to fly through the system. People wana say I’m nuts time will tell.
Off topic again, but here something i thought was worth a read:
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/61491/marlins-redmond-mets-got-haul-for-dickey?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Is this another link of something you don’t agree with or do you agree with what is said in this link this time?
“He’s a big guy. A power fastball. He’s 96-98 mph. He’s got a great makeup, a good head on his shoulders. He’s going to be good. He’s going to be really good. Power arms, those don’t grow on trees. With a little more development with some offspeed pitches, he’s going to be good.” – Mike Redmond
Nice compliment coming from Redmond there.
Yup, and of course he’s a former catcher so I take those words as a compliment for sure.
While Flores may be slow and may not have a lot of range, he does seem to have good hands and a good arm, so if he gets to a ball, odds are he´ll make the play. And if the positioning is fine, I don´t see any reason why he can´t be an adequate enough defender and be an offensive kind of 2bman overall.
Dan Uggla or Daniel Murphy aren´t great defenders at 2b – yet their offense makes them worthy starters at 2b. Jeff Kent also wasn´t a good defender at 2b initially and shifted back & forth before working to become
A lot of experts view Flores as a future .275 BA, 15-20 HR, .330 OBP, .450 SLG type bat. I believe that his upside is higher. Still, even with that total and merely fringe adequate defense at 2b, that´s an average to above average regular there. And at worst, Flores may be a valuable utility player who can back up at 1b, 2b and 3b for extended periods of time. And just maybe, his 2nd half of 2012 surge was a prelude to his breakout as an impact hitter…
It seems from the above comments that fielding wise, no appreciable difference between Murphy and Flores. What we will then need to look out for is how he is able to both position him properly against batters as well as how he is able to execute being in position to cover relay throws both to him and other infielders. That is something that can be learned, as we saw with Daniel.
I think it can’t be overstated that most likely Murphy as a no D 3B would have a much more difficult transition to 2B than a former SS would have.
LOL, I like this one from the Star Ledger today:
“Originally an outfielder and first baseman growing up in Valencia, Venezuela, Flores converted to shortstop at 14 years old and spent his first four pro seasons there after signing with the Mets for $750,000 on his 16th birthday in 2007.”
Originally an OF and 1B… before 14 years old. If it’s before 14 I don’t think you get to count that.
But that being said, it really is a good article:
http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2013/02/mets_wilmer_flores.html
I would love for Wilmer to tear it up so much in the spring that he forces the issue and comes up permanently before the break. His righty bat would be a big help and perhaps we could get back something decent (OF prospect at least) for Murphy.
[...] by three_dee [link] [comment] Source: [...]
May 15th Wilmer is your new starting second basemen. Murph is traded for scraps..lol
Flores is never going to show great range as he isn’t light on his feet and for this reason won’t be patrolling the outfield. The Met’s should have moved him to catcher years ago, he has a good arm and body for the position. With that being said I think with his bat he would still be an improvement over Murphy at 2B.
Flores has the hands to play 2B so it doesn’t make sense to put him in the OF. Second basemen can’t use their range to turn potential doubles and triples into outs. OFers can.
I think the real question is just how productive will Flores become as a major leaguer.
My sense is that the Mets are “setting up’ Flores to serve as trade-meat” for a more proven or developed talent. I have no solid to base this on just a feeling.
I hate to say it but Floes greatest value to the Mets may peak later this year in AA or early on in his AAA tenure when his trade value is at it’s peak. Perhaps around in July around the trading deadline?
I just don’t see Flores developing into a 1st major league offensive player.
Rather I think .285 15-20 Hr. 85-95 RBi 80 Runs score 35-40 doubles, quality to be sure but certainly not worth keeping around when you could trade him now in a larger trade for a bigger piece of the puzzle.
I can’t imagine they don’t start him at AAA this year. he is done with Bingo.
and those #s, at 2B, are probably going to land you in the ASG these days.
If you flop Duda for Flores, it’s prob. the same D in the outfield with more likely than not a better bat and RH to boot.
Let’s hope his bat is that good that they have to find a spot to put him.
I suspect (gut feeling) that flores will be a much better defensive player, at least from the “eyes test”. If he is any faster, that remains to be seen.
i would give the 2B option as much time as needed, since that makes a world more sense at this point.
so far in ST, he has looked perfectly fine. No, not going to have Alomar in his prime range, but he seems to know what he is doing, and have good instincts and technique. So while he won’t get to as many balls as some guys, he will do well with what he can reach. He already looks to be a more natural 2B than Murphy. another 1.2 season playing there most every day should do a world of good too.
OF, he does have a strong arm and nice hands. If he did play thee in his younger days, entirely possible he could adapt quickly, but again, it will be a matter of catching what he can reach, just not reaching much.
I guess that is a step up from stumbling and bumbling around, and getting a quick read and taking short routes to the ball can certainly help a guy “play faster” than he is.
so go ahead, throw him in LF for a few intersquad games to see how it works. got nothing to lose. But I still see him as the 2B foundation block of the future.
I really hope Wilmer shows he’s ready for the big leagues this season and they bring him up, if him and d’arnaud are as expected, this line up could be dangerous quicker than expected.
I don’t know why Salderson said they’re still developing him as a hitter when asked about his defense. It seems his hitting is the ticket that will get him to the major leagues anyway and coaches will be around him all the time so Salderson should leave that to the coaches.
Unless he’s trying to change him into their one size fits all philosophy which i have a problem with.
Obviously he put up a great line in AA in 2012, but if they want to turn him into an outfielder(and he shows he isn’t ready for that just yet) let him get the reps in AAA while still developing his bat a little more, he’s a big guy, he could be 30+ threat in all reality.
If Murphy isn’t ready, give him a shot I say, if he performs well for the rest of the spring.
All this flip flopping with players is just ridiculous. Keep Flores at 2nd base, put Valdespin in LF or trade for a young OF like Dayan Viciedo, who has been touted as trade bait during the offseason.
That’s Salderson & Depo for you, they want to reinvent the wheel.
zprospects like this do not make the team as backups. they play until they are ready to start
I take this as a sign that the team is really not confident that Duda can be the everyday left fielder….maybe I’m just reading reading into it too much.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Flores in the outfield – he has to have some athleticism being a former middle infielder, and can’t be much worse than Duda is out there.
Flores could easily crack the Majors this year, and be successful. There’s no reason to think he wouldn’t be in my opinion, and if this is the case, he’s way ahead of the curve, even if it’s 2014, he’s still ahead of the curve, but I’d like to see him make the team this year.
Bring Murph back to 1B, Flores at 2B and put Ike in RF where he played in college.
You want to put the slow footed Ike – with an ankle they said might never be the same after that injury – out in RF?
Doing that and putting Murphy at 1st is also a downgrade in defense at 1st base.
I vote we concentrate on getting a real OF for a change.
He will most definitely be traded.