Here are the consolidated results so far using your methodology:

Braves – 75 WAR
Nats – 56 WAR
Padres – 49 WAR
Giants – 46 WAR
Reds – 38 WAR
Cards – 30 WAR
Mets – 24 WAR
Phillies – 0 WAR

It’s very interesting, and many of those teams with more productive farm systems did not regularly go over slot.

Here’s a question for you: Why do you think it’s necessary to use negative WAR? I had originally left it out because I felt the use of inferior players likely to put up negative WAR was done out of necessity often due to circumstances beyond the scouting department’s and GM’s control — ie, injuries or limited budgets imposed by ownership. For example, if Oakland or TB were to have a lot of negative WAR, it’s only because their budgets are so limited they are forced to repeatedly try out prospects whom other teams like the Red Sox or Yankees would never give a shot to. IOW, the presence of negative WAR is often not by choice.

If your formula didn’t include negative WAR, then the Phillies wouldn’t look so bad. They’d still look bad, but at least they’d have some positive WAR (Worley).

I would think what you’d really only want to measure just the positive value WAR.

At any rate, that’s just my thoughts. I think it’s funny that some whined about my modification and when I then included negative WAR, as they said needed to be done, Omar came out looking even worse. Too funny!

Heck, HS draftees of 2009 and 2010 don’t figure to have even reached the majors yet. Of course the Mets rarely drafted HS players during that era, so Steve Matz and Darrell Ceciliani probably have the best shot from that time to still make it out of HS.

Career vs LHP 249/306/336 642 OPS 251/327/330 657 OPS vs relief pitchers 1st time around. 6 for 18 2nd time around. He doesn’t sniff LOOGY’s

You want to give this guy 12-15 mil a year? And lose a 1st rounder? I wouldn’t hand in a resume for a GM position. No wonder why you idolize Omar.

Wright hit 250 in the 2nd half last year and that according to you was a collapse but Bourn hitting 225 in the 2nd half is fine. 250 vs LHP according to you is fine as long as it’s not Wright.

Okay!

And considering circumstances, one can’t even really blame Omar Minaya for that trade either as he was facing contraction by the end of that season.
Neither did that trade disqualify Omar from becoming Mets GM under total different circumstances nor does how Alderson ran the SD business administration disqualify him from being Mets GM ( and chief restricturing officer)…

Again, WAR is far from a perfect number. Yet, the broader the sample size, the better as an indicator it gets. And pretty much it’s a useful tool to evaluate organizations objectively without having to go into circumstancial evidence. The number wasn’t created to make anyone look good or bad. Just try to get an objective assessment of things. And pretty much it shows that the young talent left behind wasn’t all that good. Not as terrible as Adam Rubin and others liked to claim. But certainly slightly below average.

Combined with a high payroll for a .500 team and an ownership group in financial distress ( which also hurt Omar Minaya of course during his final two years as GM), it just shows why we’re entering Year 3 of a rebuilding here in 2013…

And this is the point I’ve been trying to make to you. But for some reason, it seems to escape you.

It’s 2 parts. (1) Sign free agents and lose the picks. (2) Obtain the type of players, either those free agents you sign or others (ie, trades, etc), who you can get back draft picks for by offering arb to before they leave. Some like the Braves, Red Sox. and Yankees did that very well. For the Braves, at least the the second part.

Just like I have no reason to disbelieve Omar when he said he had the option to spend more on IFA rather than the draft.

Neither was lying. Or spouting BS. I’m not why you think they were.

And there is no topic to avoid. I am using Andre’s exact method now, which I think is the best method to judge a farm system. If you don’t like it, then come up with a system of your own and share it with the MMO community. But I don’t see anything better talked about. Do you?

No. But eventually get those picks back by obtaining the type of players you can offer arb to when they leave. This is what Cashman and Theo did all the time so effectively. They signed tons of free agents. Lost picks. But since they signed or acquired OTHER players who weren’t in wheelchairs, they were able to offer them arb before they left and thus GOT extra picks back. Omar rarely did that. Because he had a penchant for players like Franco, Alou, Delgado, Castillo, El Duque — even Pedro — who basically retired or were close to it by the time they left the Mets.

Even Beltran is a case in point. By agreeing in the contract that the Mets couldn’t offer arb, Omar effectively cut off the Mets chance to get back a draft pick when he left the team. He should never have agreed to that. That’s why Sandy felt the need to trade Beltran, which Omar likely wouldn’t have done for various reasons.

not exactly the same thing when you trade away David Freese when he is in A+ ball for Jim Edmonds…

a topic you avoid over and over again….

” Omar essentially said he had the option to use assets for IFAs the way he wanted to, so I believe it.”

Because Omar, like Sandy is really going to throw his bosses under the boss…

its BS when Sandy says it…

but when Omar says it, it cant be anything less than the truth !!!

u mean the 2nd and 3rd round draft picks???

pass up on the best CF to hit the open market in a decade….and the best SP on the market while you have an aging and bad staff….

so u can protect a 2nd and 3rd round draft pick !

yes that makes sense !!!

The Padres GM from 2005 through 2010 was Kevin Towers, their scouting director was Grady Fuson. What does anything that these two or Alderson ( in a business side position ) & DePodesta ( as a member of their FO but certainly not the person ultimately in charge) did with San Diego over that time have to do with what Omar Minaya’s front office did with the draft during that phase and what the effect is now ?

1) I know that. You know that. But that doesn’t stop critics of Sandy or Depo from bashing them over the Padres farm system during the time they were there. Thus, the comparison of SD’s farm system to that of the Mets for the time they were there!

2) Some mentioned that Andre should have done all 30 teams instead of just the Nats and Braves. Adding SD to the results at least goes a little way toward achieving that.

Right. And he actually did get other comp picks besides just the one for Glavine. But here’s the full quote of what I said:

“Wagner is just one player. He wouldn’t make up for all the other picks Omar threw away and never got back because he preferred useless and/or wheelchair players like Franco, Alou, Castilo, and El Duque.”

Which doesn’t mean he never got ANY picks back. It means getting a pick for Wagner wouldn’t make up for all those others he lost and NEVER got a pick back for. Like the picks he lost for Beltran and Pedro in 2005.

David Freese has a 8.5 WAR….take that away….and replace it with Jim Edmonds’s -0.1 WAR !!

Incredibly, Sandy traded a kid hitting .302 with 17 HR for an older more expensive declining CF hitting .252 with 12 HR

Now thats a productive way to use your farm system !!!!

He idolized the player. But NOT the team. He dissed the Pirates while he was with the Mets, and no way in a 100 years would he have agreed to play for them.

No, Andre would not have included players not signed by the club.