4
2013
Mets Still Want MLB To Protect Pick, Will Go All Out For Bourn
An article by 
A Mets source told Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe that the front office is still trying to get MLB to allow them to keep their first-round pick if they sign Michael Bourn.
They are still trying to determine whether they can convince Bourn to sign a potential backloaded deal and that they will go “all out on the compensation” if they know their pick will be protected.
In other words they will overpay if they have to as long as they can keep the pick.
Five years for Bourn???
Sounds like this still has legs. Stay tuned…
Original Post 1/28
Richard Justice of MLB.com reported that the Mets will have little to no interest in signing Michael Bourn to a contract if they are unable to protect their first round pick.
The New York Mets have no interest in signing free-agent outfielder Michael Bourn if it means surrendering their top 2013 Draft pick, the 11th overall. If you’re wondering why a rebuilding team would invest big bucks in a 30-year-old outfielder regardless of the compensation, that’s a question plenty of people inside the industry are asking.
It’s also beside the point. We may never know how interested the Mets ever were in signing Bourn. All we know for now is that they have zero interest if it means losing their top Draft pick. And unless something changes, that’s exactly what would happen.
However, according to both Newsday’s Marc Carig and MLB.com’s Anthony DiComo, Sandy Alderson has “NOT” filed any appeal or made any official request to protect the team’s No. 11 pick.
That would go in line with what I’ve been saying right from the start which is, why should MLB spend days deliberating over something that might be a non-issue?
Let the Mets put an offer on the table first, and then you can review the legalities of whether or not the CBA rule should be changed or if it goes against the heart of why the rule was included to the CBA in the first place – to help restrain escalating salaries.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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In other words Alderson has ZERO interest in improving the team. LMFAO!
Joe D. you were right again!
I guess people inside the industry are wondering why they would…
“If you’re wondering why a rebuilding team would invest big bucks in a 30-year-old outfielder regardless of the compensation, that’s a question plenty of people inside the industry are asking.”
but they just invested 138 million for a 30 year old 3B who has had 4 consecutive years of sub-par 2nd half production…..
sign Bourn for 4 years / 50 mil…is not going to kill the franchise…
all things being equal, if possible, I would trade for Alex RIos who has 2 years / 25 mil left on his contract…
Alex is 31, hit .304 with 20 + HR and plays a good CF/RF
plus JP loved him in Toronto…
Not the point but any chance you can get on Wright why not?
My point had nothing to do with if I think they should sign him. Only that people in baseball wonder why they would thus its far from an open and shut case.
“Not the point but any chance you can get on Wright why not?”
its not getting on Wright, its highlighting the weird double-standard folks have with regards to investing in 2nd generation contracts.
we paid a substantial cost for Wright’s household name and marketability…
that stuff = nada if we are not winning…
we have to surround Wright with winners to justify giving him that contract…
comprende?
Industry sources weren’t questioning why the Mets signed Wright. They know why. Great 3b and face of the franchise. Bourn isn’t as clear cut which was the point to start with. Can you please have one discussion not involving some double standard crap? If not say so and I will just skip everyone of your responses from now on.
well what does it mean to have a face of the franchise when the franchise doesnt make the playoffs…year after year after year…
u do realize, david wright is not going to hit leadoff, play CF and play 3B at the same time…
u only make the bullseye on his back bigger by not surrounding him with major league level talent…
because when the team is no longer in a playoff chase…and its another boring hot and humid august summer….the fans will be looking for a target…
and if u noticed…david from april to june is fine…but after that his numbers have all been very mediocre…
who better to blame than the highest paid player in franchise history…
having a lineup that looks like this
1 – Bourn – Leftie
2 – Tejada – Right
3 – Murph – Left
4 – Wright – Right
5 – Ike – Left
6 – Buck/Travis – Right
7 – Duda – Left
8 – RF
9 – Pitcher
that lineup is actually pretty decent…
you have a leadoff hitter with speed…and patient disciplined hitters in 2-3-4 with boppers at 5-6-7
the other alternative is…
1 – Tejada – Right
2 – Murph – Left
3 – Wright – Right
4 – Ike – Left
5 – Buck- Right
6 – Duda – Left
7 – CF – likely a lefty
8 – RF – likely a lefty
9 – Pitcher
basically after Buck, u bring in a lefty specialist…
now who is ur right-handed bopper on the bench…
Scott Hai…wait…3 mil was too much for him…
your move…
who do u have in CF / RF and what is ur lineup?
I’ll wait…
Hi Trs86
Sometimes it appears to me ” Just a ” is a loose cannon: However, sometimes he is right. There is a double standard. You saw it in Bay and Beltran. Reyes and yes Wright. I am white non Hispanic and it seems a big co instance we have no black players. If Wright were black he would have not been extended. Can you be a golden ball and black? Maybe Sammy Davis Jr.
The whole issue of a divided clubhouse like West Side Story the rival gangs of White vs. Hispanic. This is part of Met history the ugly side. Take Care
ehhh…its not just that wright is white…not so simple….
ike, murph, duda, kirk are white and have been shafted in one way or another with the mets…
if wright were pudgy, ugly, surly with the media, he can be white as he wants, he never gets to the be the face of the team…
it will be interesting as wright declines, and other met players get better than him though…
NY = results oriented town….
If Wright were ugly he couldn’t even get to 1B with Molly.
such is life.
The fact of the matter is people go to games only because of David Wright. People only buy merchandise because of David Wright and people watch games on TV just because of David Wright.
Is it fair or best for the W/L record that because he’s a pretty boy, he gets all this attention? NO, but that is how the world works and his contributions to the team both on and off the field are why the Mets kept him instead of doing what was best for the team on the field and trading him…
…funny how u totally missed my point on us getting a quality outfielder though…
3B is different than CF.
Thatll grt except for one thing….
Theyb are NOT rebuilding they are for all intents and purposes REBUILT with no more kids in the pipe to fill the remaining OF holes and all thier top prospects about to be promoted to the MLB….
The rebuilding excuse is OVER!
They got all the kids they are going to have in the next 4 years so unless your suggesting we wait until Niese, Harvey, Davis, Murphy and Tejada are all eligible for Free Agency before you are ready to start winning the rebuild is OVER!
By the time Nimmo will be ready is 3 years from now! and even then thats only ONE OF position filled…
The other hopefuls, Duda and Kirk are already here….D’Arnaud and Wheeler will be before the year is out….
Clock already started on Davis, Murphy, Niese, Gee and Tejada…
So if you suggest this team is still rebuilding and want to wait for more kids by the time they get here you lost half your team you were counting on to be your core!
I wouldn’t say that’s accurate about Aldy. I also don’t see Bourne as a player worthy of the money it’ll take to sign him, plus the loss of the pick AND the alotted slot money.
People forget that they also lose the slot money which is huge considering they have two second round picks. They didn’t sign last years pick and only recoup a fraction of that pick’s alotted money. They’ll need all the cash they can get to draft and sign these players that early in the draft.
This is all their own doing, of course, by letting Teddy S walk. But the 600,000+ that pick was designated only ends up being any extra 150-200,000 added to this year’s draft. Now, I hope they don’t draft a guy in the first round they believe they can get for under slot, hoping to roll over the extra cash into the second rounders.
I want them to pick the best damn player available at 11, and use the late round alottments to help with getting the best players available in the second rounds. This all really sucks because with this FO, you just can’t expect them to make the obvious choice. They always seem to reach about ten picks back to get their man. Which is completely odd for a rebuilding team.
Despite knowing how they operate, I still don’t want to lose the first rounder for Bourne.
I want them to pick the best damn player available at 11, and use the late round alottments to help with getting the best players available in the second rounds. This all really sucks because with this FO, you just can’t expect them to make the obvious choice. They always seem to reach about ten picks back to get their man. Which is completely odd for a rebuilding team.
I must say you nailed it with that statement.
Whenever I read that DePo is flying to Wyoming or Louisiana a few days before the draft, you know they have their mind set on someone signable and they are taking that kid no matter who drops to them and how talented they are. They practically have thier pick signed before they even call his name. That is no way to go into the MLB Draft.
I hope that doesn’t happen again this year.
” This all really sucks because with this FO, you just can’t expect them to make the obvious choice.”
Isn’t that the point? If it was about making the “obvious choice” any of us could do it. their job is to make the right choices, not the obvious ones.
” They practically have thier pick signed before they even call his name. That is no way to go into the MLB Draft.”
Actually, one of the open secrets about the draft is that a good chunk of the deals are already negotiated prior to the draft. that’s how teams know what they can budget. Yes, it is against the rules, but Selig lets it slide because it keeps the draft from descending into anarchy.
Should teams be flexible in case something happens with a guy projected t go earlier? Sure. But you can’t fault them for having a plan.
Lady…. How cute. Is that what all you puppets call him?
These are the #11 draft picks from 1990-2009:
Darrel Andrews
Aaron Estes
Derek Wallace
Daron Kirkreit
Mark Farris
Mike Drumright
Adam Eaton*?
Chris Enochs
Josh McKinley
Ryan Christianson
Dave Krynzel
Kenny Baugh
Jeremy Hermida*
Robert Aubrey
Neil Walker
Andrew McCutcheon**
Max Scherzer*
Phillippe Aumont
Justin Smoak*
Tyler Matzek
So in 20 years there have been very few guys who have had any sort of career, and only 1 so far that is better than Bourn. Let’s not get too carried away with our love for draft picks.
By the way, of the MLB.com Mets Top 20 as of today (which somehow still includes Juan Urbina and Reese Havens), none of them were drafted as high as #11. Not even Wheeler, d’Arnaud or Syndergaard. Roughly half weren’t drafted at all, but were signed as international FAs.
How does that prove anything? Here are the #12 picks from 1990-2012. These players could very well have been picked #11 instead of #12 in those years:
2012: Cechinni
2011: Jungmann
2010: Grandal
2009: Crow
2008: Weeks
2007: Dominguez
2006: Kiker
2005: Bruce
2004: Weaver
2003: Milledge
2002: Saunders
2001: Jones
2000: Borchard
1999: Myers
1998: Everett
1997: Akin
1996: Seay
1995: Morris
1994: Garciaparra
1993: Wagner
1992: Felder
1991: Glanville
1990: Ritchie
There are some pretty good players there. The point of having a lot of picks is that it increases your chances of having some pan out. To some extent it is a crapshoot. But the better talent is usually always in the early rounds.
Wow. Do you consider yourself a baseball genius with your earth shattering NOT pronouncement about more talent in earlier picks. you must have just joined the world to think you have a scoop.
Well, IF you read the post I was replying to, you would know not everyone is aware of that.
Don’t be condescending. It’s obvious from reading these blogs that a lot of people think that a #11 pick is a holy grail that s some sort of a guarantee. I posted the list of number 11 picks to throw in a little dose of reality.
People want to keep the pick not just because it’s a #11 pick — but because it’s a first round/early round pick. And if you look at the #12 picks I posted, there are at least 7 very good players on that list. So just posting the recent history for #11 picks is of little relevance because all subsequent players are available to anyone who picks #11.
I don’t disagree with that at all. But holding onto an 11th pick for a 20-30% chance that it will help you in 4-5 years instead of a nearly 100% chance of making your team better during the next 3 years isn’t good business either. The team needs to scout better for lower round values, IFAs etc, of course. But there are lots of ways to find and develop talent, and the ultimate goal is to produce a contending team at the ML level.
I don’t think giving up the pick is all that big a deal with most of the people here isn’t who we’re giving the pick up for. Bourn is just not worth a pick that high and the slot allotment that goes with it.
ok, if not Bourn…than who?
BJ Upton?
Josh Hamilton?
name the CF you would sign for the 2013 season…
Fowler would be a reasonable alternative, but he will cost much more in prospects that the #11 pick given he is controllable for the next 3 years at affordable pricing.
JDD – I’m with you on Bourn, but what would be the max offer you would give him?
Ok Fonzie13 – name the best possible solution u have to play CF ?
In the last 3 years Bourn has averaged 91 runs, 52 SBs, 9 triples, 28 doubles. What’s wrong with that?
Nothing wrong with that Dave but if it means more than a 3 year deal plus giving up a 1st rounder along with the slot money then I’d rather they pass. He doesn’t get on base enough for a leadoff hitter and he gets shut down by lefty specialists late in games. He’s just not worth what it’s going to cost giving up to get him. We’ve brought in much better players than Bourn after age 30 that haven’t panned out and this has bust written all over it. I remember Robby Alomar’s great years right before he became a Met. Baerga, Bay, Bonilla, Foster, etc… To me he’s a 9-10 mil a year player tops and for 3 yrs tops.
And what is the point of signing a player for 4 years 60 million when with or without him, you’re missing the playoffs his first two years anyway…
ATTENDANCE…..
You don’t hae to actually MAKE the playoffs just convince the fans you MIGHT have a better chance than LAST year because you improved the team….
As attendance goes up you can then get the NEXT guy who can do it and if you do it right you will be one player away from the playoffs or IN it…
That’s the tragedy in all of this. Why do the Mets have to miss the playoffs for 2 more years via not trying? Or the hyper-ridiculous notion of sitting back contently and waiting for 2016 or 2017 like DrBoomer or DrBoomy says. That’s just plain insane.
When the Mets got Keith Hernandez in 1983 it was only a month after Darryl Strawberry arrived and a year before Dwight Gooden was even on the big club!! and the 1983 pitching staff of Tom Seaver, Ed Lynch, Walt Terrel, Craig Swan, & Mike Torrez i’m sure really motivated Frank Cashen to get Keith Hernandez, right? #sarcasm
Right now you have Ike Davis at 1B, Tejada at 2B, Wright at 3B, still not sold on Murph being the guy to go to war with when it’s time to compete. Harvey is already here and I believe he’s the real deal, and if Zack Wheeler is the stud everybody says he is and his agent sounded very confident in his abilities so why wait on Wheeler? He just may be ready by the end of ST. d’Arnaud could be ready soon to so why wait?
NOW is the time to start adding the pieces. If Frank Cashen did it the way Sandy is the Mets never would have gotten Keith Hernandez.
DO IT NOW! Was Gooden treated like a little baby with kid gloves? No. He came up and was ready to fight for the division right away. Same should be with Harvey and Wheeler if Wheeler shows he’s ready, if not, then you STILL go get players now because he’ll be here very soon
Did Frank Cashen wait for Dwight Gooden to arrive before finally starting to put together a team? NO! Hernandez was already here.
I’m not crazy about Bourne but get a FRIGGIN major league outfielder already. It should have been done early during the off season not now, instead of thinking they can turn water into wine by signing a bunch of retreads who THEY think they can turn into starter this team could have contended this year.
- Harvey
- Wheeler
- Niese
- Santana
- Gee
- d’Arnaud
- Davis
- Tejada
- Wright
- (un-named major league outfielder who SHOULD be here already!)
- Murphy – i guess since he’s here already
What are we waiting for? Get players NOW
I recognize some of those names of course, but without first names it’s hard to evaluate completely. Anyway, I get your point. My point however, is that the probability of success is probably less than 20% for that pick range– in other words an 80%+ failure rate. Bourn would fill a need for the next three years that will not be filled from the farm or picks. In addition, the Mets organization and fans need some indication that the ownership cares about putting a winning product on the field. Signing Bourn would not set back the rebuilding plan, unless your target for contention is 5 years from now. I agree with The Plan, but it needs to be augmented a little bit from outside to speed it up a little. I’m 52– I don’t want to wait until I’m 57 to root for a relevant team again.
Dave you are correct about the percentage but that is true throughout all of the draft. Look at how many top 5 picks actually make an impact in the major leagues. That is why the draft is a numbers game. The more you run at it, the better your chances because, yes, the failure rate is so high.
This will be Aldersons third draft. If they retain this pick, that is Nimmo, Gavin, and whomever is selected this year. If, ultimately, one of those three becomes a solid to good major league baseball player, the Mets beat the average. The value of this pick is that it increases the chances for success. Does that mean the Mets will hit on one of the three, 2, or none? Who knows. Hell at this point it looks like the guy with the best chance is Fulmer who was a supplemental pick.
Taskmaster, I do get all that. But a pick now will probably help the team in a significant way in 2017. I don’t want to wait that long. Stick with the great core of pitchers we have coming up. We have a decent IF. But we have no OF and no help coming from the farm in the next three years to fill all the OF holes we have. If one of denDekker, Puello, or Vaughn makes it in that timeframe, then put him in RF. Nimmo will probably get to NY in 2016 or 2017( if ever), at which point he could try to unseat/replace Bourn.
Dave, I get how you and others are impatient. And while Bourn is a very good player, he’s entering a point in his career where you can expect a downturn … and he’s a Boras client. I don’t know if he’s worth giving up a #11 pick.
As for the names in the #12 slots I listed, how about Jay Bruce, Jared Weaver, Nomar Garciaparra, Billy Wagner, Matt Morris, Yasmani Grandal, and Jemile Weeks? That’s a roughly 30% success rate for pick #12. Pretty good, if you ask me.
I agree with you Metro– good players all. I’m just not ready to assume that Bourn will fall off a cliff as soon as he becomes a Met. I wouldn’t give him more than 3 years guaranteed. And during those 3 years he would give the team 100% more production than any draft pick.
Other than hitting a baseball, in every other part of life if you only have a 25-30% chance of success, vs. taking something that is stable and proven… you take proven every time. A 25-30% chance means that you’re very likely to fail.
Would you take a job that guarantees you 80k a year in salary or would you take a job on commission in which you can possible make 160k a year but only 25-30% of all the employees hired actually make that much, the rest make around 30k a year. 95% of the time you take the proven.
If you look at the #12 slot picks, the success rate is actually higher than 30%, because I shouldn’t have included years 2011 and 2012 (too soon to judge). It’s more like 33-35%.
It’s funny. They said Bay was stable and proven and look how he turned out! So the point is, you can risk that with Bourn if you don’t pay too heavy a price. But no one knows how (1) he’ll react to playing in NY and (2) how he’ll age in CF which takes the biggest toll on legs and stamina.
And your job analogy isn’t appropriate because the Mets have fallbacks that likely can produce a minimum of 50% — and perhaps 75% — of what Bourn gives you in terms of WAR.
Bourns WAR last year was 6.0 what player on the mets Roster that is fallback on this team for Center Field can produce 50% (3 WAR) or even 75% (4.5WAR)? There’s not one player on this team that comes close. If we have a Center fielder that can produce 3WAR season we wouldn’t be looking for a Center fielder. We will be lucky if all 5 of our outfielders can produce a combined WAR of 3.
Not only was 2012 a career year for Bourn, it was his WALK year. Ding-ding-ding … Pay dirt! Look at Bourn’s WAR since he became a fulltime player (his first year with the Astros). He’s averaged a 4.0 WAR since then. A 2.0 WAR is not hard to produce. Niewenhuis had a 0.9 WAR in half a season. And that was his rookie year. Give him more time and I believe he can improve on that.
If the Mets sign Bourn to a 3-year contract, they will be lucky if he is still producing a 4.0 WAR in year 3.
Hopefully, if the Mets sign Bourm you will leave as your services to Sandy to diss every baseball player not wearing a Met jersey will no longer be required and all of Sandy’s BS that you and your pals spewed out for 2 and a half years will all be proven to be nothing but lies and BS.
Hopefully you will leave RIGHT AWAY as you are incapable of adding anything of intelligence to a discussion!
o that makes sense…its his walk year…so of course he performed better than he did in his non-walk years…
wait…from 2009-2011, he had a HIGHER batting avg, and avg MORE stolen bases…
people said the same thing about beltran in 2011…all beltran did was come back and have an even better 2012…
do u have clown shoes to go with the ridiculous stuff that comes out of ur mouth ?
LOL, so wait … BA and SBs determine the quality of play? Hahahaha!
I’ve saved the clown shoes for you, damaja. They fit you to a T!
lets do some analytical thinking
Bourn was injured in 2011, playing in only 53 games…
did he do this on purpose?
did he say…yeah, let me take off the 2011 season…so i can maybe come back healthy for 2012…
then when 2012 hit…
was Bourn supposed to not do so good…?
for a team in a playoff chase?
but yeah, lets just say Bourn only did good ( but not as good as he did in years previous ) because he was going to be a free-agent…
yeah, ur def a clown…
Wow, damaja, if I am a clown, you are definitely a world class idiot! And you’ve worn your idiot shoes into this form again today!
“Bourn was injured in 2011, playing in only 53 games…”
LMFAO! Did you make things up all the time as a kid too? Did your parents beat you so bad because of it that you ended up so brain-damaged? You should be called just-brain-damaged!
Bourn played 158 games in 2011.
Try making something up that’s at least believable!
My bad, i looked up baseball reference on my phone and the 2011 numbers for houston were truncated …
now im home…looking at Bourn’s 2011 numbers…
2009 – 4.7 ( non-walk year )
2010 – 5.3 ( non-walk year )
2011 – 3.0 ( non-walk year )
2012 – 6.0 ( walk year )
yup…bourn sucked his entire career…and out the clear blue just put up a good season…
lets ignore the change in stadiums, change in hitting coaches, lineups…
yup…its all b/c it was in a walk year !!
yes !
that makes sense !!!
Metro12 with another great one
You are a clown
But it’s ALWAYS your bad, damaja, which is why you are a global village IDIOT! If it’s not this latest Bourn error it’s your hilarious mistaking of attendance rankings for payroll rankings.
You are a magnet for ridicule! LOLOLOLOL!
No one ever said “bourn sucked his entire career”
Make up another good one, damaja! And learn to read!
I dont know about the other two you mentioned, but Wheeler was the number 6 pick the year he was drafted. So I dont follow what you are saying about the #11 pick.
You’re right, I’m wrong– sorry about that. But I hope my overall point is still valid….
“By the way, of the MLB.com Mets Top 20 as of today (which somehow still includes Juan Urbina and Reese Havens), none of them were drafted as high as #11″
Are you saying all the drafted players in mlb.com’s Mets Top 20 were drafted before slot #11? If so you couldn’t be more wrong. At least 9 were drafted AFTER the 11th position.
Exactly the reverse– I thought that was obvious. Only Wheeler was drafted higher than #11( i.e. Picks 1-10).
Yeah but dont forget that the Mets are ranked somewhere around 15th in terms of their farm so it might not be the best one to use as an example.
It has improved in the last couple of years but still is a long way away from being powerful.
Also, at least two of those prospects in the top 10 (Flores and Familia) were IFA.
Taskmaster, I was surprised to see that roughly half of our top 20 weren’t drafted, but were signed as IFAs (as I pointed out in my original post). The Mets, along with every other tem, need to scout well and look for value. It’s not all about the first round.
But I’m still not sure what your point is. The Mets haven’t had many draft picks that were higher than #11 in recent years. Since 2000, only 3 — Humber, Pelfrey and Harvey. I’d say that is 1 failure, 1 moderately successful player, and 1 success (though the jury is still out on Harvey).. But there are no prospects in the Mets farm system currently who were drafted earlier than #11 except for Wheeler.
My point is just that if you have a chance to improve the team now without doing serious long term damage, you can’t blindly hold onto the hope that an 11th pick is more valuable. I fully support the plan to build a strong farm and avoid excessive FA signings. But we have a terrible OF, next year’s FA class has no guarantees, and there’s nothing in the farm that will guarantee filling two or three OF holes by 2014-2015. Maybe Duda will improve, maybe he’ll flame out. Maybe one of denDekker, Puello, or Vaughn will make it. But we will need to go outside the org thru FA or trades (which probably depletes the farm of more developed players) to field a respectable OF, and I see Bourn as filling several serious needs for the team. He’s not the savior, but he would be a big upgrade over anything we have in-house.
I am not going to go off the deep end at all if the sign Bourn but I would much rather they find the next Josh Reddick than to give Bourn his big contract and have the draft ramifications as well.
Trs, if we could get somebody like Dayan Viciedo for Wilmer Flores plus something, I’d do it in a second (depending what the something was, of course). Or one of the A’s OFs in AAA. But that depletes the farm too. The Mets played the Beltran andRADickey cards perfectly, but there’s only one of those left in the deck– Johan. And only if he pitches very well in the first half.
Dave, what did you think of Agbayani, Payton and Bell?
Agbayani was a pleasant surprise. I loved Payton’s potential, but somehow it never really came together for him (hammies??). Bell I just don’t remember very much.
I was always seduced by the potential (or marketing) of the prospects like Shawn Abner, Stanley Jefferson, Jeffries, Brian Cole (RIP), and others whose names escape me. But they always seemed to let me down. We did better with pitchers. But getting a guy like McReynolds (from SD?) to go with Straw made a great OF. I’ve always wanted an OF with a least one guy with great speed and one or two with scary power. Comes from watching Mookie, Straw — and the Cards too, wth Coleman and McGee and Jack Clark(1B)….
Dave, the 2000 outfield of Agbayani, Bell and Payton was one of the weakest ones in Mets history. Yet that team went to the WS. And who knows how it would have turned out had the Yankees not had so many juicers on their team that year! So my point is … I think the weakness of the current Mets outfield is being overblown. A team can succeed with a weak outfield (also see the 2012 Giants) as long as its pitching and infield are strong. I’d rather the Mets upgrade the bullpen which worries me more than the OF does. Losing Bay and Torres were immediate upgrades anyway, as I see it! I know I am in the minority on this, but I really do think the current OF situation is being overblown.
There are a lot of OF candidates in the Mets farm system right now, though admittedly, none of them are great prospects. However, throw them all up against the wall, and maybe some of them will stick like spaghetti! There’s Niewenhuis, Den Dekker, Lagares, Puello and Vaughn. So let’s see what we have. I don’t mind Bourn on a 3-year max deal IF they also keep their #11 draft pick. But anything costlier and it’s not worth it.
As to the worth of the pick I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree, but to each his own. Both points of view are perfectly. As to the OF prospects, I’m most intrigued by Vaughn and denDekker, and it’ll be interesting to see how they do this year. I like Lagares, but I think he’s a 4th OF. Puello has to show BIG improvement this year to convince me…
That weak OF was supported by what Sports Illustrated called the greatest infield ever. If Wright, Tejada, Murphy, & Davis can supply the defense, intelligence, and clutch hitting abilities of Olerud, Alfonso, & Ventura, and the defensive wizardry of Ordonez than maybe you have a point.
But you don’t have a point.
Naturally I love Davis and Tejada and trust them but Wright wears a C for choker and Murphy? Well he’s on the bench if he’s on the same team as SI’s Best Infield Ever
Yes Bay but by the same token so is Utley and Uggla under those circumstances….
Murphy is not as horrible as people expected and wasn’t all that bad for a guy coming off two knee surgeries and playing 2B for the first time in the MLB….
As long as his Bat holds up we should give him a chance to show what he can do once he has been playing there for two full seasons.
Oh, forgot one little thing. Piazza.
Bayonne – No one is saying the Mets 2013 IF is as good as the 2000 Mets IF. It doesn’t need to be for the Mets to be competitive. But the IF of Wright-Tejada-Murphy-Ike-Buck/d’Arnaud has the potential to be the BEST in the NL East by mid-season. The rotation as it stands today is strong. The only question is the OF and the BP, and it’s easier to fix the bullpen than the OF. So if they upgrade the BP, then the Mets have the potential to be MUCH better in 2013 than folks are predicting.
And Wright is NOT a choker. Some of you just expect him to walk on water.
Actually that “best infield ever” was the 1999 infield…not the 2000 infield. The 2000 infield had Zeile instead of Olerud, a mediocre year from Ventura, and Ordonez (who stunk for the most part anyway) was hurt and missed most of the season so the SS was a combo of Kurt Abbott, Melvin Mora, and Mike Bordick. With the exception of 2b the 2013 infield should be better than the 2000 one.
The 2000 OF wasn’t nearly as bad as it was made out to be though. Agbayani was actually pretty good that year. And Bell and Payton were at least league average hitters.
I agree with the possibility the outfield is being overblown but it’s to be expected when ALL of the outfielders have no consistent history. If they could perform as well as the 99-2000 teams we’ll be OK. In a way it seems similar because we might get some offense from the catching position. Strong starting pitching a solid infield and hopefully the bullpen comes through -Maybe just Maybe
BTW– My desire for speed and SBs in the OF makes me partial to Bourn too. Call it The Mookie Effect….
Ahhh, OK, I see where you’re going. In that respect I can see where the appeal of Bourn is. But Mookie didn’t have Boras! A big plus in Mookie’s favor.
And in the Mets favor too!
List hasnt been released yet. That’s old.
The con never stops around these parts…
Hi Hank, It’s not a con, didn’t you get the memo from ray sadecki?
I definitely missed that MM. Thanks for letting me know though.
Thats great now our out field won’t be better than most minor leauge teams and one of if not
the worst in MLB!! I don’t want to give up the 11th pick in the draft but to go into the season
with this out field is a big joke!! It will be fun watching balls fall in the gaps and going over the head of the CF(and left fielder) I really feel sorry for the pitchers and the fans!! We really
needed to make a big trade so the 11th draft pick wouldn’t have been an issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s a tough decision, because nobody wants to give up a #11 pick. However, I would get Bourn. The outfield prospects within the organization are still a few years away. If Alderson expects to contend beginning in 2014, we’ll need help in the outfield, to go along with the young arms in the rotation+d’Arnaud+Ike+Wright. Bourn will be a good starting point for a new outfield.
I am not a proponent of adding Bourne at all,
A. I dont believe hes worth the money I believe he will ultimately get
B. I hate POS Boras
BUT I seriously believe that the commissioners office IS going to concede and protect our #11, thereby forcing SA’s hand.
Which will obviously either force him to sign Bourne or make hiim a ridiculously lowball offer Boras & Bourne reject, depending on what his actual intention was all along.
I say that at this point we go with what we have, sign Ankiel, throw Turner out there in ST and let them all fight it out for the 3 OF positions.
Out of:
Baxter
Duda
Neuwenheis
Cowhill
Brown
Ankiel
Turner
we should come up with something mediocre enough to run with, then go after a solid FA outfielder next offseason.
While it would make little sense to sign Bourn at market value ( say, 4-years, 60 million or 5-years, 70 million) and sacrifice the first rounder at the same time, eventually the Mets will have to trade for or sign outfield help. Be it this year or next year. And it’ll cost either prospects or draft picks.
If Bourn is the choice, it’ll either take a below market value contract or merely giving up the 2nd rounder…
Wouldn’t it be pure irony (typical Mets!), if MDD stepped into CF this year or next & glided its Spanse expertly for 6 years?
Fact: There is a better chance Michael Bourn will help improve the defense of the club, the offense of the club, the stats of our pitching staff and defensive stats of our LF and RF than Paul Depo and Tommy T drafting anyone of consequence with that draft pick.
Sandy seems to be doing everything humanly possible to keep attendance low, ensuring the Wilpons are not contributors to the MLB pool of revenue.
With the Mets in the BIGGEST MARKET in the entire world, doing this all but ensures that 2014 ( which has an extremely THIN free-agent pool ) and 2015 ( which has an even THINNER free-agent pool ) are years which we will not compete for a playoff spot.
Has Sandy even changed the pitching coach?
What is Sandy’s philosophy on pitching? we all know his ideas on the offensive end…
What is Sandy’s philosophy on defense? again…we all know his ideas on the offensive end…
this is the BS I call out with sandy…
the ONLY thing you ever hear about with him is finding Low cost / high reward player who have good OBP or Power with high contact rates and high PPA…
I have no clue what Sandy’s thoughts are with regard to pitching…..and defense…and the relationship those 2 factors have with the game…
there are 3 major aspects of baseball
Offense – we all know about moneyball here…
Pitching – ?
Defense – ?
Think about this for a second…
In 2011, the question of moving Jason Bay to CF ( with Angel Pagan STILL ON THE TEAM, which from a PR perspective is absolutely horrible ) came up publicly…and Jason said he had no problem sliding over…
In 2012, we start the year with Jason in LF and Duda in RF…
In RF there is an additional 25 feet to cover….
If Jason was willing to move to CF, moving to RF was not that big of a deal…
why would Sandy not move Duda to LF ( a place where defensive liabilities are usually placed )
to me…keeping the SLOWEST man on the roster out in RF resulted in exactly the results that were expected. Lucas Duda was statiscally the worst RF in all of baseball, and his deep defensive positioning resulted in more basehits to RF than any other RF in the game…
because he doesnt want to give up the 2b/3B ( due to his lack of speed ) …he gives up a ton of basehits…
any monkey can see that was going to happen…
when i questioned it last year on MB, Cerrone and Baron deleted my posts ( which were all respectful )
this is why I say…Sandy’s mission is too narrow-minded to actually work in this market….but since he really doesnt care about his career as a GM ( its not like he is going to try to work somewhere else ) and his spot with Bud is pretty secure….all Sandy has to do is wait out 2013…and go back to Park Ave…another GM who is trying to establish a career as a GM, actually cares what people around the league will think ( sandy doesnt ) and has what Joey D. appropriately called, competitive integrity…
keeping Duda in RF almost the entire year, flies in the face of statistical analysis, competitive integrity and frankly, COMMON SENSE
/rantover
“Sandy seems to be doing everything humanly possible to keep attendance low, ensuring the Wilpons are not contributors to the MLB pool of revenue.”
How can he do that? The Mets, since they reside in a top 15 market, are on the declining side of revenue sharing money which will ultimately be phased out for them by 2016.
Plus, a team contributes 37% (or perhaps it is 31%, I can never remember) of their local team revenue. So you are saying that instead of having an $630,000 of revenue (post revenue sharing) on an extra million, he would rather have $0.
That is about as sensible as saying that one doesnt want to make extra money in the stock market because tax might have to be paid.
if the wilpons are not contributing to the pool…me thinks they get less support from the rest of the league…meaning more pressure on Bud to stop being their friend…
I dont think Sandy and the wilpons get along….
The wilpons are extremely image conscious.
Sandy has bashed his own team and their lack of financial flexibility more times in 2 years than I have ever seen any Met GM do in 30 years combined.
For every time he says the mets are about flexibility and they have the ability to add payroll or be buyers at the trade deadline….he also throws jabs at the team for not being able to add payroll…
that david wright signing looks like it had Wilpons fingerprints all over it…
as clueless as Sandy may appear sometimes…even he knows it would be impractical not to explore a trade market for David…w/o exploring a trade market, they basically negotiated against themselves with that deal…
now consider that Flores was just ranked the 9th best 3B prospect in all of baseball…at age 21…and Murphy ( a natural 3B ) can easily slide over to 3B to replace Wright….
and it really makes NO sense from Sandy’s position to just hand out a contract to David Wright 4 months before he said he would no longer entertain any discussions about a extending contract…
Sandy had December, January, Feb, March and then April ( opening day, davids deadline )
Why extend a contract in December…when u could’ve given that same contract in late March?
‘that david wright signing looks like it had Wilpons fingerprints all over it…’
This.
That’s why you gotta let this DWright signing go. It’s done and over with.
I never put the Wright signing on Sandy…and I expect him to defend it and pretend as if its his own…
I only get annoyed with the folks who say Wright being signed was Sandy’s choice ( therefore ) it was the best option.
There are many reasons NOT to give Wright THAT contract…especially being that it was signed on December 5th 2012….when Wright gave you a deadline of April 1st 2013 to work that out…..
If we trade David Wright to the Yankees ( who now may not have A-Rod for the 2013 season ) and we get a big package of players, that we can flip for Stanton…that would be a GOOD move…
signing Stanton to a 9 year / 90 mil deal locks up a RF from age 22-31…at a lower rate than David…and a better chance of MORE production…
the fact that Wright fans cant fathom a better option than resigning him for a 138 mil option screams ideology
that annoys me !
“If we trade David Wright to the Yankees ( who now may not have A-Rod for the 2013 season ) and we get a big package of players, that we can flip for Stanton…that would be a GOOD move…
signing Stanton to a 9 year / 90 mil deal locks up a RF from age 22-31…at a lower rate than David…and a better chance of MORE production…”
Now THAT is a GREAT idea. And any fan that is a fan of “Winning” would have to like that. There are so many positive things that can happen for this ball club immediately if that were to happen. Mets get a MUCH better and more feared hitter than Wright and they have their 138 million back and make a couple more moves! They could possibly contend this season if they made that move. Like Metsie said, it’s time to start adding the pieces now. There’s no need to wait because Minaya left the Mets in good shape minors wise resulting in the present jerkoff GM not having to work as long as Frank Cashen did.
“Mets get a MUCH better and more feared hitter than Wright ”
the problem with met fans is that they dont think there are too many hitters that are better and more feared than David Wright….
this delusional fanboyism with David really blinds them to that reality…
David is an extremely streaky line-drive hitter with occasional pop that will hit somewhere between .280 and .300 with 21-25 HR
and right now that means he hits .360 from April to June and .220 from July to September with 1 HR per week…
side note…
only 2 of David’s 21 HR came after the 6th inning..
(one was a solo shot down by 3…the other was a solo shot when the team was already up by 5)
http://www.hittrackeronline.com/detail2.php?id=2012_214&type=hitter
like i said…it wouldnt surprise me if Jose Reyes eventually hit more HR in a season than David Wright….
Why in the world would they trade Wright to the Yankees of all teams? Many teams have much better farm systems where they could get a lot more. Getting some prospects back from the Yankees certainly doesn’t guarantee the Mets being able to get Stanton…not even close. And the Yanks are supposedly trying to cut back on salary this year so they might not want to be paying both Wright and A-Rod.
And signing Wright early makes a lot of sense. They didn’t want the thing to drag out all offseason. He’s an elite level 3b…they wanted to keep him…no point in just dragging it out for months when they don’t have to. They wanted to get the most important move done first. They probably didn’t want to trade David…but they still had time during the season and Oct, Nov, etc to explore the “trade market” if they saw fit. Sorta similar to the Dickey situation.
The ideal would be keeping the elite level 3b (which Wright is…as much as you like to deny it) and getting an awesome OFer. It shouldn’t be one or the other. And its a pretty huge assumption to think that trading Wright for a couple of Yankee prospects would then result in being able to pull off a trade for Stanton.
Keep Wright, get an OFer. And if Flores or Murph are really THAT great…maybe we can trade one of them in part of a deal for an OFer.
I don’t see that happening either.
Right now the Yankees payroll stands right around 230 MIL.
However, according to what I’m reading Cashman said yesterday that it’s not out of the question that ARod misses the entire season. And if he does, the Yankees get 25 MIL in insurance money back.
So what’s the deal with that draft pick consideration the Mets filed anyway?
From what I read yesterday, it was speculated Selig won’t likely make a decision until AFTER the Mets sign a player that would cost them this draft pick. If that’s true, it’s not going to happen.
And the decision should be made now, not later. If the Mets wanted to sign a qualifying player and knew they had to give up a draft pick, I can’t help but think their offer would be less than if they were getting this player and didn’t have to give up the pick.
Thats pretty much the deal SRT….
They say they will look at it after the fact but see no reason to do so before then.
Part of it is they know by saying so ahead of time it makes Bourne’s price go up immediatly after they announce it.
Well in that case, I’d have to put the odds of the Mets signing Bourn at less than 10%.
Much less in my book….
I’m not even sure they really want him….I think it is just more for our ears than actual interest in Bourne.
They are taking heat in the press for not signing an OFer….
And Bourne is the method for shutting those stories and accusations down…
By the time it’s all settled and he isn’t here ST will be starting or soon to be…
It wouldn’t make Bourn’s price go up much because it would only affect one team- the Mets. There wouldn’t be other bidders jumping in because the Mets’ pick got protected.
Which begs the question……why hasn’t he been signed by some other club by now?
Is this more the fact that Boras is his agent and he’s holding out for the big bucks pitting a couple of clubs against each other?
Or did Boras over estimate the market for Bourn?
Because most were busy trying to get Upton instead….
The Bourne talk will pick up now and if we managed to get the pick protected it would happen quicker because the ones who ARE interested in him wouldn’t wait as long as they will knowing we are out of it.
you forget….They know we are bidding and they will also know they have to beat our bid if they really want him…
So if they are currently at 13 Mil per and they know we entered into bidding the price is going to go up somewhat.
Things have gotten worse than I realized in Flushing, if Michael Bourn is the big free agent acquisition whom the Mets covet. Seriously, the guy is a .270 hitter, who’s had a .350 OBP once in his career and his career high on slugging is .391. He’s 31 and has played in 5 full MLB seasons, so you can get a good idea that he has already reached his pinnacle as far as numbers go. The guy is decent at stealing bases, great at striking out, and never scored 100 runs in a season. He’s a good OFer, which would be a nice addition, but if Boras is his agent, then The Mets can’t afford him and shouldn’t even consider it…unless his asking price is around $5-7 million per season…5 years at $15 million per is crazy for this guy. What’s he done?! The Mets have no shot at him…stop posting articles about him, it’s a waste of time. He will not be a Met.
Yes Matt they have!
Considering for 13 Mil per they could have had a guy like Beltran instead!
And many others who would be about as good as Bourne would if people here weren’t more concerned about the Age than they were about the Money and Performance level!
We are relegated to NEEDIN a Bourne because we turned our noses up at other players who were cheaper, didn’t cost a pick, and might have put up as much on the statlineall in the name of Age and Youthfulness….
Bourn is no $15 million dolloar player, but let’s pay the man a little respect. He just turned 30 years old. He delivers excellent defense in a key defensive position. This position is even more crucial in Citifield given the size of the OF and the poor OF fielders on the roster. He is also a solid leadoff hitter. Yes, he does K a bit too much, but a .350 OBP, 40+ steals a year, and 95+ runs scored is nothing to sneeze at, especially from anyone on the current roster. Valdespin is the only guy in the Mets organization that has any shot at delivering this type of production, and that is a big uncertainly right now. As far as worth, Metsie refers to the $13 mil per that Beltarn got, but that is last year’s market. This year, Pagan got 4/$45 mil and Victorino got 3/$39 mil. Both are older than Bourn, Bourn is faster than each and plays better D than each. The Mets will have to spend a little to get a good OF, and they dont have any close. They strongly need to consider Bourn even if it costs the #11 pick. They just need to set a reasonable ceiling on the offer.
The Mets need the #11 overall pick a lot more than they need to spend $15 mil per year on a good defensive outfielder who has questionable offense. The 2013 Mets are not going to be competing for a playoff spot so the Mets need to look more towards 2015 and beyond. Plus, there is no way that Alderson gives a up that pick so he can overspend on a marginal player. That’s not how he operates.
Questionable offense? He´s averaged over 90 Runs scored each of the past 3 years. 40+ SBs. 27 2B. 9 3Bs. Ok, he doesn´t hit HRs– so what? Bourn was 4th or 5th in MLB among CFs last year in Runs scored in spite of being 8th in OBP. When he does get on base his speed allows him to score more often than average due to the SB. If we signed him to 3 guaranteed years it would cover his age 30, 31,32 seasons– that´s not old. It´s as safe a bet as any in baseball. And his defense will make the pitchers better, and the corner OFers as well. And frankly, his speed will make the team more fun to watch, as the Mets are a deadly slow station-to-station team right now. Having Bourn on base in front of Murphy´s 40+ doubles per year would be fun to watch.
Well he’s a 90 OPS+ guy for his career….99 OPS+ guy last year – essentially just a league average hitter.
He does play great D and has great speed – with decent ability to get on base, so he can make a solid leadoff hitter. But I do agree that he is questionable enough that he’s not a guy you definitely want to give big $$ and give up the draft pick for. It’s worth debating.
He’s never reached an OBP of .350, nor has he even reached a .400 SLG in his career. He has, however, struck out at least 140 times in a season 3 times in 5 full MLB seasons. He had a very good 2011, but the rest of his career hasn’t been at that level, including 2012 where he regressed. Look, the guy would be a nice addition for the Mets if they were a playoff contender due to his defense…but, the Mets are not contenders, nor do they have enough other pieces in their lineup to help Bourn to score those 90+ runs per year that you mentioned. It would be a waste of $15 million per year…and lets face it, Sandy Alderson has no intention of spending that kind of money on this type of ballplayer while also losing the #11 overall pick. Sandy loves the draft and building from within…Bourn will not be a Met. Move on.
We can spend the money NEXT offseason.
He wont make a bit of difference during this r-e-b-u-i-l-d-i-n-g year.
This will just be a knee jerk reaction to a slow offseason. PLEASE dont let this deal happen.
but who is available next off-season?
granderson – 33 – plays in a hitters ballpark…bad defensive CF
ellsbury – 30 – always hurt – boras client
beltran – LMAO yeah ok
…so remind me what imaginary player are we getting in 2014 ?
Flexibility means nothing if there is no match between AVAILABLE player and team
Heres some imaginary outfielders available in 2014. I will only name the ones that are twice the player Bourn is:
Nelson Cruz
Corey Hart
Hunter Pence
Ichiro Suzuki
Shin-Soo Choo
Cruz is on the decline and Hart is a guy that’s better off as a 1st baseman.
I thought Choo was the guy to go after this offseason and wouldn’t have cost us much to get him. I cant believe we had all these great A-Ball arms and we couldn’t sell high on at least one for an outfielder. What the f**k is he gonna do with them all? No such thing as a 20 man rotation. What the phuk good is all that RHP depth if you’re not gonna make a move to fix a weakness?
Bourn is better at CF and leading off than any one of those guys, and anyone currently on the Mets. We will be r-e-b-u-i-l-d-i-n-g for 20 years like the Pirates with this wait til next year mentality. Bourn at 5/75 is kneejerk. Bourn at 4/48 is good business.
Nelson Cruz – plays a horrible RF…in a much smaller bandbox in Texas…is much older….
Hunter Pence – i do like him ALOT…i thought we should’ve flipped Beltran for prospects to get Pence to replace him in RF…but that was 2 seasons ago….Hunter also is not that great defensively anymore…
Ichiro Suzuki – ur kidding right ?
Shin-Soo Choo – a bad defensive OF…he is not a middle of the order hitter…nor a leadoff hitter….
like someone just said….Bourn at 4/48 is good business…Bourn at 7/70 is a horrible signing..
I am NOT saying go ALL out for Bourn…but if you offer 4/48 and someone blows you out the water, then good luck to them on that…you at least TRIED and no one can blame you for NOT overspending…
Bourn is a 10-12 mil player…paying him from age 30-34 to leadoff and give you good defense, so u can now consider LF and CF locked up and now only have to work on RF is crucial…
right now…we NEED Bourn much more than he needs us…he can simply go to another contender on a short term deal like Texas or Philadelphia, boost up his numbers and then try again next year when there is a much smaller pool of potential free-agents
I second the motion….
ON WHO?
Personally I would like Gomez and Pence.
I am on board with Gomez, but Pence, I think I will pass.
As starters: Gomez, Pence, Ichiro (maybe), Choo
Bench: (Chris) Young, Crisp, Gwynn
I’m looking for speed, defense, and power (2 out of 3 is acceptable). These guys could possibly can give the Mets just that.
Actually Ken Rosenthal said that first, the You did after his article was posted.
It seems obvious to me that IF we go to Uncle Bud with a ‘signed’ deal for Bourn pending a waiver on forfeiting the #11 pick, he’ll approve the deal. So, the hangup is likely on the Boras side, with $$$$$ & years. Signing Bourn for $15 megas / yr for 4 years would be a bad deal but barely digestible. Anything more than that, fuhgedaboudit.
I would never give Bourn $15 mil a year which is what he is seeking. That would make him higher paid than Wright ($11MM) this season for crying out loud.
But that’s exactly why the Mets are not legitimate players for him, never met with him, haven’t made him an offer, and didn’t file a petition for protecting pick. Rumors, leaks, innuendo, is all we’ve heard. Just more smoke to hide the reality of what the outfield projects to be.
Dog and Pony show from day one. That was my first take on it and the song remains the same.
Interesting interview with SA on SIRIUS last night:
https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmsports/mets-gm-sandy-alderson-talks
Not sure what he meant by that last comment of Hairston signing with the clubs and the next morning Upton traded to the Braves.
Is he trying to say they were still trying to work a trade for Upton and if Hairston was available after the trade to the Braves, they might have turned around and signed Hairston?
Obviously I meant Hairston signing with the Cubs.
He was implying that if Upton had been traded first before Hairston signed, that the Mets could have signed Hairston? I don’t know it was very vague and his point was muddled. Not sure why he even mentioned it when all he was asked is if he was still looking to improve the outfield.
i agree Joe, that Bourn isn’t worth 15 per for 4 yrs, but given the boost he’d give our Defense & add some excitement to the Offense, i thought i’d be able to swallow that pill and then hope MDD was ready by ’14 and Bourn, still good then, would be able to be traded.
And as much as i like Duda, i’m thinking maybe we should give MDD a shot this year & see if Duda is tradeable at all. Duda’s 15 – 20 hr /yr doesn’t make up for the poor D.
As I’ve been speculating since the Braves traded for Upton, the Orioles have indeed jumped into the Bourn sweepstakes from what I’ve heard this morning.
I wonder if they do get Bourn, if it would make Nolan Reimold expendable and if the Mets might see him as a right-handed outfield option? Had a .960 OPS in 2012, career .455 slugging in 916 PA.
Bucky Schowalter and the Orioles are in a position to win it all NOW and Bourn could help them get to the promised land. I would like to see him as a Met but there ain’t no promised land for us so we’ll lose with or without Bourn so it is no big deal if the Mets have him. There are teams that live in the penthouse, some reside on the middle floors and some in the basement efficiencies. We are low rent for sure!
Dont they have Jones manning CF? Why would the Os be interested in two CFs. Sure they could move one, but CFs taking to the corners doesnt always work especially when both are studs defensively. If either was on a sharp decline, I could see it.
because Jones should not be playing in CF…
Joe – I think if Baltimore does get Bourn it’s a bad decision by them. They locked Jones up through 2018. He’s not moving to LF, that’d be a crime against his skillset.
So you have to not only bring Bourn in but you have to convince him to move to LF? If you’re Bourn why not just lower your demands at that point and try to get a 1 yr deal somewhere… He’s not a LF.
I think everybody is ignoring 1 team that I think may surprise us all. Houston.
I think Houston wants to desperately add some pieces with the move to the AL, they need names, they need veterans, they won’t lose their 1st rounder and oh by the way – Bourn is a local of Houston.
I think KC, Chicago White Sox and maybe even the Twins are more likely destinations if the price drops a bit than Baltimore.
I’m keeping an eye on Houston though as that surprise team that gets convinced by Boras that Bourn is what they need for 4 years.
Houston won’t go that route. They need way too much to fill in the holes, which are larger and more bountiful than the Mets are, if one can believe that. I can’t see them losing any pick at all, even a 2nd rounder, to get Bourn. Much like the Mets, the Astros could certainly use Bourn’s skill set ASAP, but unlike the Mets, the Astros don’t have a young and promising rotation coming up and won’t conceivably start to contend until 4+ years from now. The Mets, on the other hand, could start to right the ship in 2014…
I’m only suggesting them if the price drops a bit – he used to play there and I think like the Cubs, they need SOME veteran talent on the roster to hold them over a bit. I just find it odd that you never see Hou, Cws, Kc or Min on the “where will Bourn go?” list when they seem like the most logical to me…. Tampa is another one.
I don’t know, I think the pick changes things obviously but I think Houston could surprise everybody.
Don’t forget Texas with lose of Hamilton. Daniels needs somebody: not acquring Upton, Greinkie, Dickey. He also lost Napoli and could not get d’Arnaud or JP. Their blogs mention Bourn.
Honestly it would not even surprise me to see the Giants get involved. Imagine Bourn, Pagan and Pence as your 1-3 with 4-6 of Posey, Sandoval and Belt, followed by Sucrets and Crawford.
Isn’t Sucrets a candy for sore throats?
Yup, that’s what I always called Marco Scutaro. I guess because I had tonsillitis when young and remember those things.
I leave today with the joy of an impending weekend and a tidbit of TRS fun facts.
And by letting Tampa. KC, Pittsburgh, Oakland, Houston, once the Nats & Miami, San Diego, MN, hog the Top 5 – 6 year in / year out, they ENSURE a CAP on Comp!!!! Letting the Pirates have 2 picks in Top 14 is an outrage. Houston, KC…Pirates…year in /year out…!
Huh? What are you saying? That the teams with the worst records shouldn’t pick first in the draft? That makes no sense at all to me.
Hi JetsMets13. There won’t be, but i believe some franchises abuse the system. Baltimore has been in 1st 5 in 6 of past 8 drafts; Pittsburgh same; KC 7 of past 8; Seattle 5 of past 8 drafts. i think a team should be allowed to be in 1st 5 more than 3 of past 4 drafts IF their payroll wasn’t MLB average. KC’s been there 7 of past 8 drafts! Baltimore 6; Seattle 5; Pittsburgh 6.
Off the top, i doubt any of those teams had even the average MLB payroll in those years. That’s abusing the system as much as the Yankees BUYING the F/A market year after year.
Thin free agent pools is the new normal.
EVERY SINGLE GOOD YOUNG PLAYER GETS THEIR FIRST SEVERAL YEARS OF FREE AGENCY BOUGHT OUT.
That is why only garbage ends up in free agency. That, or players in their mid-30s.
Michael Bourn is not a player you go all out for. Either of the Upton brothers were. If this really happens and it’s for more than 3 years it will wreak and appear very Minaya-ish to me. This along with the Wright deal will be worse than Perez and Castillo.
Just sign him already. MLB needs to protect that pick. At least we’ll have a great CF for next 4 years plus a leadoff hitter.
The Pirates have had no worse than the 4th pick (#1 once; #2 twice) in 6 of past 8 MB Drafts from ’05 – ’12, 11th in ’05, and 8th last year that they failed to sign..so they pick 9th this year—bumping both Toronto & the Mets back 1 slot. The Pirates also have the #14th pick this year.
Give me a break. IMO there’s no way MLB would not grant a waiver to the Mets IF they were to sign Bourn.
To me, the bigger question is, what makes sense for the Mets with Bourn? i say no more than $15mm / yr for 4 years, with maybe a ‘mutual’ option in the 5th year.
I still don’t see Bourn as some kind of “star” player that should be getting 15mill/year. People are freaking out that Wright is getting an AAV of 17.25, but think Bourn is worth 15?
Wright is worth 17.5 mil….
just not for 8 years on a rebuilding team at age 30
put Wright’s 17.5 mil deal on the Dodgers ( a team built to win now ) and its fine…
they can swallow the cost of his contract with all the post-season revenue they get from the first few years…
the mets might as well give David Wright a Joker costume b/c in a few years he will get vilified for that contract like its no tomorrow…
he better donate ( tax-free of course ) a thousand seats to disabled kids every day & televise it
its gonna get ugly
Maybe DW will be a DH on the Yankees in 2017…4 productive years with Mets…then we trade him to the Yankees. I know. Never happen with THEM. But, maybe to another AL team…the Red Sox?
i’m also very curious just whom Mets covet with that pick? Who they want and think will still be available there. They must have a specific player in mind.
there is also the issue of losing something like 1/3 of your entire draft budget for the 1st 10 picks. That might be an even bigger issue.
very true…
Great point.
Wasnt such a big issue last year when they left 1.2MM on the table and failed to sign one of their top picks. Now it’s an even weaker draft. Plus they got some of the money rolled over to 13 so it’s not that big an issue if they lose that budget with first pick any way.
IF they lose that #11 pick to sign Bourn, i thought they forfeit 1st Round $$$$’s…which ranges from $1.6mm – $2.6mm, that they cannot apply throughout the draft. That wrong?
My interpretation as well.
Too bad they didn’t go all out for Reyes.
And the first round pick is non debatable. It makes zero sense for a rebuilding team to give up the 11th overall pick to sign a 30 year old OF.
Weak or strong draft, there’s always talent in the first round.
I’d think a gold glove CF is worth the 11th pick.
No disrespect, but you’d be wrong to think that.
it is a good debate though…
i can see both sides of that issue…
the best thing for the mets considering they have no bonafide CF or leadoff hitter is Bourn, there is no question about that. there is no one in this lineup that resembles a leadoff hitter and before u come back about bourns OBP…compare his to the avg leadoff hitter in baseball..
Agreed that it is a good debate, but that D in CF and adding a true professional leadoff hitter, albeit with some holes in a high K rate and OK OBP, is really tempting. Stick a couple of proven backend bullpen pieces from the pool of Wilson, Valverde, KRod, and Lyons, and they can at least claim to put a decent team on the field for 2013, and one with a punchers chance should the stars align.
3 years with a club option on fourth year and can not give up the pick. Get a deal in place with Bourn then wait for an approval on the pick. They say yes then you sign him, they say no then see ya. At least MLB will see the Mets really want to sign him and make a ruling. His defense and glove make him a nice piece for the next 3 years. Anything else would be uncivilized. He has his drawbacks but the up the middle defense with Darnaud, Tejeda and Bourn is very good. Pitching and defense win, of course Murph is the Achilles heel there defensively and maybe next year they upgrade there defensively, but he did improve a lot defensively last year, can still hit, and his fairly cheap.
Verdict sign him but to three years without giving up the pick. If that is not the case just go with Cowgill.
Will freddie coupons buy bourn as a late chanukah present? Sure michael weiner and bud selig will decide the mets claim to hold their draft pick is kosher.
4 years, 52-55 million, option for a 5th if needed. Get it done!
If they are still in this game then I can only assume it is a sign that Season Tickets sales have plummeted and Sandy (probably at the Wilpon’s insistence) has decided that they need a big splash to get some sales or they will have NO money to spend next year….
As I said if they lose 160K of attendance next year they could be looking at 43Mil in losses which would mean they got only 7 Mil of savings after cutting nearly 60 Mil from the Payroll.
So you are still hung up on the notion that Bourn will actually cause a dramatic increase in season ticket sales?
Increase from what? From last year or what they are RIGHT NOW?
This seems to be your problem….
We been through this it doesn’t really matter what Bourn actually does…It matters what the METS think he will do….
Either Wilpons or Sandy think they need a NAME to sell some tickets….
Bourn is the only NAME left out there…..
Yes he would sell more tickets than they have sold right now….
More than last year (meaning making up for the loss of Dickey?) NO! Probably not they already POed those fans and they are probably not coming back this year….
Wave Bye Bye to that money you think you were going to have a spending spree with in 2014!
You might salavage SOME with signing Bourn….You know to those FENCE sitters like you who think they are doing a great job!
if the mets gave Bourne 15 mil for 4, they would need their heads examined. he is really just beter, no faster than average.
my money is on texas coming in and swooping bourn
That wouldn´t be surprising, though Texas has shown a lot of restraint so far this off-season and apparently hasn´t been involved in the Bourn talks so far.
Thing is, the typical suspects to swoop in with a surprise deal all are set in CF short- and probably longterm, i.e. the LA teams, Detroit, Washington, the Phillies, Cardinals and Braves. The Yankees don´t want to spend.Boston could but already has Ellsbury & Victorino.
Unless Texas swoops in, it will either be the Mets (on their terms) or a “surprise” team that´s on nobodies radar, say the Cubs.
Obviously the M’s are still in play which actually could work better for us if they would sign Bourn to some stupid deal and then trade us either Wells or Franklin.
Saunders. I want Saunders. Make it Saunders.
Of course, the question is what does “the Mets are willing to overpay for Bourn if their 1st rounder is safe” actually mean ?
“Overpay” in Mets terms may not be similar to “overpay” in Dodgers or Red Sox terms.
Maybe the Mets feel a 4-year, 50.0 million $ contract for Bourn is pretty much “overpaying” while the Dodgers would barey consider a 6-year, 96.0 million $ contract for Bourn as “overpaying”, if they even had the need.
Again, I´ll reserve my judgement on this signing until it actually happens. Whether Bourn ends up with the Mets or someone else.
The 1st round pick issue certainly is significant.
If it “merely” comes down to money, Bourn certainly is more valuable than Shane Victorino and can look at least at that sort of deal, maybe with a 4th year on top being a bit younger. Not quite Upton money but somewhere between Upton & Victorino in terms of years & annual dollars…
Come on Sandy! Do it! Go ALL OUT! Legions of Sand People are counting on you!