21
2013
The Mets Outfield Could Be The Worst Ever Of All Time?
An article by 
When new MMO writer Daniel Nelson sent me a link to a Grantland article entitled, The Mets’ Outfield Could Be the Worst Unit in Professional Sports, and Maybe All of Life, my first inclination after I was done vomiting, was to email the writer of that garbage, Sean Fennessy, and tell him what I thought.
However, I felt it was best to post about it here instead. That would ensure that it would live on for all eternity in this bottomless pit we call the internet.
Fennessy takes an unprovoked shot at the Mets at multiple levels before getting to the heart of the matter which was this:
Forget Michael Bourn, Mets fans. Josh Hamilton, too; he’s at Disneyland. Not even Scott Hairston is walking through that door. Lucas Duda, Kirk Nieuwenhuis, and Mike Baxter: These are the men for our times. Knights. Legends. Warriors from an ancient guard sent to protect us. Just kidding. They suck.
That was his opening volley and it all goes downhill from there. Frankly, Met fans don’t need Grantland to tell us that our outfield sucks. Most of us are well aware of the situation and not at all blind to that fact. But to say that the Mets outfield is the worst unit in the history of sports might be the most extreme case of outlandishness I’ve ever read on any sports site. You either have to be a complete moron without an ounce of pride, or have brass balls the size of grapefruits to sign your name to a post with a title like that.
It’s kind of disappointing to be quite honest with you. I always held Grantland in such high regard and would expect much more from them than something this bad. Until tonight, Grantland always had a pretty solid reputation and ranked very high on the credibility scale, before Fennessy flushed all that down the crapper with this rubbish.
I’ve spent the last three months knocking Sandy Alderson for the way he approached and ultimately handled the team’s dire need for an outfield overhaul. I thought he misplayed his hand from day one, and I never once bought into the Michael Bourn charade – he knew it would cost him the pick and he knew he’d never get him for less than four years. Alderson is not naive, but he is very calculating and knows how to play the PR game better than most.
However, I don’t doubt for a second that he has the best of intentions where the Mets are concerned and I believe that he sincerely wants to build a team that can achieve the sustainable success he often talks about.
We may not always agree on every move he makes or doesn’t make, but his heart is in the right place and we both have the same desire – which is to bring another championship to Flushing, Queens.
Getting back to Fennessy, he provides the reader no research whatsoever to back up his ridiculous claim that the Mets outfield is the shittiest group of pro athletes of all time. None. He offered no comparisons to support his crazy assertion.
The article wreaks of a poor attempt to grab some undeserved attention as well as all the unmerited traffic that comes with it.
The thought process behind this was very simple – the hell with the content, the truth be damned, and lets go for the shock value. All you need is a preposterous and attention-grabbing title, throw in some choice keywords for good measure, and then sit back and watch the CPM earnings skyrocket.
It’s a formula that has been expertly crafted and perfected by the folks at Bleacher Report, where more work, thought and time goes into creating their titles than the actual articles themselves – and I use the word “articles” very loosely. It’s now abundantly clear that Grantland is taking a page out of BR’s playbook.
Oddly enough, there was one isolated truth in Fennessey’s article that is worth mentioning, but alas it didn’t come from him and was actually a quote from Fangraphs who wrote:
Last season, the Mets’ outfield ranked 29th of 30 teams in total outfield wins above replacement, with just 4.1. Hairston and Andres Torres, two players who combined for 3.7 of those 4.1 wins, are now playing elsewhere.
That tidbit provided another launching pad to spew even more word vomit:
The Mets are still a team with fans and expectations and $17 lobster rolls. And the prospect of running out three 26-year-old AAAA players, out of position and on the wrong team, is hilarious, cruel, and perfectly inexplicable.
Of course, no article about the Mets outfield would be complete without referencing Sandy’s many jokes this offseason. In this version, the Mets GM is likened to an over the hill and out of touch comedian who showed up five years too late for his Last Comic Standing audition. There was that, and then this little nugget… Alderson’s jokes are evil.
The Wilpons caught some grief too. To Fennessy they are just wealthy men – overgrown children really – who like to buy expensive toys just so they can break them.
But make no mistake, this was all about the Mets outfield. An outfield that he contends has no upside whatsoever, and that will end up with a WAR of unimaginable lows that will test the limits of terrible.
Terrible job by Fennessy, and an even worse job by Grantland for allowing this to pollute their once respected site.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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i saw the article a few days ago. I didnt necessarily think as little of it as you did but i did take some cheap shots for sure. sandy is operating like a guy who knows his job is safe. instead of throwing money at an average outfielder who can add maybe 6 wins he is biding his time. i think its a very smart move for the long run. we’re almost done with the bay deal, why get bogged down with another one?
I refuse to trash the OF until we see them play. Kirk and Baxter both hit RHP well and Cowgill and Brown/Byrd both hit LHP very well.
Sandy preferred going with unproven guys with platoon splits to see if any one of them are part of the future instead of slightly upgrading the team with guys like Hairston.
If they totally suck then blame Sandy, but there is a reason why he is doing this. It might backfire and he would deserve blame, but I’m not going to trash him not trading for the overrated Justin Upton or because he wouldn’t give a 5th year to Bourn.
Well said.
Plus, an “average OF” (not sure who exactly this is, maybe Bourn?) is not likely to add 6 wins by himself
Uh… The whole article is clearly an exaggeration that’s supposed to be funny (not saying it is). But yeah… “These jokes are funny and also evil.” The guy says that they’re jokes.
If you already knew that then I don’t know what the big deal is.
The article was not meant to be funny, the tone of it was to mock the team. What you quoted was that he thought Alderson was funny and evil, but that was not what the article was about.
Was he mocking the team or the Owners?
The main bitch of that article was about how a RICH GUY who can get $17 for a Lobster Roll yet still can’t afford a credible OF or commit money to it….
And lets be clear we all have hopes in these platoon guys but even if it works they are all gone next year because we didn’t lock them up to anything longer than a one year….
Just like Hairston….Only guys who will be here if they have a modicum of success are Duda and Kirk…The rest will all get paid more than Alderson will pay a guy like them…
Actually Cowgill and Brown are arbitration eligible players under team control. Brown through 2015 and Cowgill through 2017.
Which I am sure played a role in bringing them in.
Whoops, Brown is actually under control until 2018. He’s not even arbitration eligible until after 2015 and Cowgill isn’t until after 2014.
Cowgill is the only one who is actually on the 40 man roster at this point….
the Other guy I was wrong about was Baxter as he seems to be pre-Arb as well…
Right now Lagares and Puello are listed as Roster players…Neither are going to be on the 25 man as there are only there for Rule 5 protection purposes, So maybe Borwn takes thier place…
But that will leave someone exposed next year in Rule 5 meaning they could still be leaving…
I thought Baxter was FA at the end…Apparently not.
Doesn’t change the fact that your statement was incorrect.
“And lets be clear we all have hopes in these platoon guys but even if it works they are all gone next year because we didn’t lock them up to anything longer than a one year….”
In fact none of them have to be gone and they are all as locked up as they can be.
And I did say so didn’t I?
Regarding Baxter….
Only Cowgill is on the Roster….
The rest are all in the Minors….
Who are all the platoon guys he brought in that aren’t locked up beyond this year?
What part of me sayingI was wrong did you not get?
Or is this just your way of gloating to keep asking me as if I was still arguing and claiming I was right?
You want an argument I’ll be happy to oblige you….
You want to decend to the hell I will be happy to take us there!
What you seem to misunderstand is that most of the guys we signed will not be here past this year….for one reason or another!
There is no roster room to protect ALL these guys we signed only ONE of which is actually on the roster today!
None, what I was getting at is that for some reason you kept saying something about being on the 40 man or not being on the 40 man. It still didn’t change the fact that ALL of the players brought in as platoon candidates are under team control past this year. So that’s a positive.
Yes because if you didnt know you HAVE TO BE ON 40 man in order to play for the team!
Which means most of the guys you EXPECT to be playing at this point either won’t be or probably off the roster as soon as Kids need protection again.
Anyone who thinks this OF is here and going to remain here much past this year is fooling themselves….
I thought Baxter would be gone but apprently he is the favorite to be here next year….
Most of the players are nothing more than a Sampling plate to try and many of them might not even make it past first cuts when they have to get the rosters (MiL and MLB) down to normal season levels.
You keep talking about Brown but he has yet to make the team at all…
Most of the guys we have in the OF will not be here past this season….
Duda maybe, Kirk most probably, Baxter seems most likely and after that MAYBE Cowgill if he has a decent year….
You want to count Valdespin, Lutz and Turner in that group be my guest but the fact we are even considering putting them there tells me none of the guys that are currently considered our OF have a very long career with us. Most have no career at all until they make the 40 Man Roster….
You want to count those kids as Prospects that could come in and help the team thats another story….
But today the Roster says they are nothing more than Minor Leaguers who might make the team due to the OF we have listed on our Roster…
“And lets be clear we all have hopes in these platoon guys but even if it works they are all gone next year because we didn’t lock them up to anything longer than a one year….
Just like Hairston….Only guys who will be here if they have a modicum of success are Duda and Kirk…The rest will all get paid more than Alderson will pay a guy like them…”
Again, who are the platoon guys you speak of that we didn’t lock up to anything longer than one year?
Why don’t you name the guys on the 40 man roster that are actually going to play OF for us this year and I will pick from that list….
Here are your choices:
Baxter
Cowgill
Duda
Lagares
Kirk
Puello
Valdespin
Who is platooning with Duda, Kirk and Baxter?
Lagares and Puello?
Cowgill is the only RHB on the Roster other than those two!
So you tell me who is going to be platooning this year?
You guys keep saying we will platoon so who is it?
Brown isn’t on the team…So it’s not him right now….
We are talking about the TEAM we have on the roster…Not what might be on the roster in 1-6 months!
And chances are just as likely we will sign someone else to a one year to make up that platoon and take the roster spots of Lagares and Puello than we have of promoting Brown.
Round and round he goes when he stops everybody knows. I think you need to read your own statement.
Yeah and I Think you need to say who is playing the OF ths year….
Cause the guy you mentioned is not on the team!
He also tries to make it seem like the Mets spent more on their “Sucky” outfield than the 15 million dollar Astros, when I am pretty sure that F-Mart, Martinez and Maxwell are making just about the same as Kirk, Baxter and Duda.
He’s right; this IS absolutely the worst outfield in the history of all time, period.
Not even the worst this year.
Well this does sort of beg the question doesn’t it?
If this isn’t the worst one then what was?
I can’t really think of one but that doesn’t mean a worse outfield does not exist…So which one would be the worst we have ever had or ever seen?
He said worst unit in the history of sports of all time. Unit, not outfield. That means worse than any basketball starting five, football offensive or defensive line or secondary, lacrosse, rugby, etc. All sports and all time. The guy is full of shit. And it was on him to prove it, not us..
I suggest you re-read the title Frankie….
In either case all I’m saying is if he’s wrong it shouldn’t be that hard to name something that was worse and call it a day…Mission Accomplished…
I wasn’t saying it is or isn’t all I said was I could not think of a worse OF than the one we have in Met History…
If Duda doesn’t hit then his statement will not be too far off the mark.
And lets be honest even Sandy agreed when he said Outfield? What Outfield?
The Mets have an awful outfield and Grantland is making fun of it and Sandy Alderson’s inexplicable failure to upgrade it at all. I have heard Mets fans say, “well the Cubs and Astros might be worse”. That doesn’t really help.
Another bad outfield is the Phillies. I mention this because Domonic Brown was in 2011 Baseball America’s #4 prospect. To date he has not lived up to the hype. Yes, I’m talking to you Mets fans who think Travis D’Arnaud will be an All Star right away.
Travis will dominate. The question is will he have the strength to carry the team?
Prove him wrong! lets name a team with a worse outfield?
Might be harder than you think.
Rich, the point is that he made the claim and it was up to him to show us why our outfield is the worst in the history of the game. I don’t even think this outfield is the worst in the history of the Mets.
What about Thomas, Hicks, Hickman, Piersall in 1963?
Altman, Christopher, Elliot, Hickman in 1964?
Cowan, Swoboda, Hickman, Christopher in 1965?
Henderson, Morales, Youngblood, Maddux in 1980?
Boston, Johnson, Bonilla, Coleman in 1992?
McReynolds, Thompson, Orsulak, Lindeman in 1994?
ALL WERE BETTER
Piersol, Thomas and Hickman were all Allstars at some point in time…
Duke Snider is in the Hall…. 63 is a very bad example…64 is better
An Expansion team with no draft or Free Agency to work with at least has an excuse for having players like that…The entire team was made up of players like that….
80 was an interesting example….As I have said all along We have done what we did from 77-79 which is what put us into the position to repeat that type of OF. The only difference between then and now is THEN we didn’t trade away our OF just pretty much everyone else…
NOW we are the ones who traded away what little OF we had. Then we also had the top pick in the draft (and three 1st rounders to work with) and we took the player of need (Strawberry, OF) . We had Mookie in the system already so at least we had something to look forward to replacing that group. Not the case here unless you think Nimmo is going to be strawberry like and here soon.
92 was not worse than this team…Real CF, Bonilla a real Power threat even Boston was a decent player.
94 I don’t see how McReynolds and Orsulak are worse than anyone in our OF, Only hope is Duda Hits (I think he will) but the rest of them? Dount they will be any better wit the bat OR the glove than those guys.
94 had some parralells to now as well…The great hope and hype was about all the Pitching we had that was going to carry this team for years to come…..
They called them GenerationK….
As I said above I’m not sure this OF is the worst we have ever had but from a projection POV they seem like a candidate….They will have to outperform and a lot of it will be based on what Duda can do, Maybe Kirk can raise thier bar a bit as well…
Lets see what they do but I can tell you I don’t expect much from anyone except maybe Duda who I believe can hit when his head is screwed on straight and the hope is Kirk will hit RHP enough this year to get some chances at LHPs and find some way to adjust to pitching which he couldn’t seem to do last year.
Hi Joe D.
Defending our guys from those early years only, can it actually be said that those were as bad as we think ours might be this year?
“What about Thomas, Hicks, Hickman, Piersall in 1963?”
- Forgot to include an over the hill Duke Snider. But that outfield included:
Hickman: 17 homers
Thomas: 15 homers
Snider 14 homers
(Yes, I know Casey’s guys were aided by those 250 and 257 foot foul poles but also had to contend with a 475 foot center field)
But with Wright, Davis and Murphy, at this point, would you settle for the same home run production from the trio we have now?
“Altman, Christopher, Elliot, Hickman in 1964?”
Joe was an even .300 hitter with 16 homers and 76 RBIs, Hickman batted .257 with 11 home runs (one a grand slam) and for all his troubles at the plate Altman in just 109 games had 12 outfield assists. In half a season, Elliot still hit 8 home runs.
Again, with Wright, Davis and Murphy, would you settle for that from the outfield we’re going with?
“Cowan, Swoboda, Hickman, Christopher in 1965?”
The worst of the three but Swoboda did hit 19 home runs with Hickman and Lewis hitting 15 each and Johnny did gun out 14 runners (please don’t say “Johnny Got His Gun” LOL). Jim became the first Met to ever hit three homers in a game in St. Louis late in the season.
Not the greatest but would you take that from our outfield this year with the other bats mentioned above?
Of course, I’d rather have better than any of those three, but under the circumstances, I would settle for that type of production from any of them (of course, please don’t vet deeper to see the low batting averages and RBI figures plus some of their great fielding adventures, either, LOL) but hey, we’re talking about the REAL amazin’s when a two game winning streak was cause for celebration!
Tremendous job Fennessy, you’re spot on. how can the GM mock the same basically starting OF we finished with last year and then come january and tell us it’s ok mets fans, we’ll be fine after not doing anything to improve it? Look, out of the 3 the only guy i have a good feeling about is Kirk, Mike baxter imo sucks, duda is a huge disappointment but on a good overall team he’d be serviceable enough to play there, but on this team, his flaws are more noticeable because we lack good players on the position roster, if i am collins, i am starting valdespin in RF and Kirk in CF, let all the other bums and PO’ss sandy brought in play to see who can replace duda in case he struggles. The notion that the 1999 or 2000 team OF was worst is not even close, reason was we had a great defense, great bullpen, best IF in the game and best hitting C of all time which this team lacks of. While the writer of that post sometimes go away from his main point, he’s spot on imo and the CORE salute him. and remember, this ain’t about the GM, it’s about the team, and how he’s made a mockery of and have insulted fans to their face with his dry humor attempting to make things ok with it.
actually the starting OF that he lists (which IMO is not even accurate, since there would be at least 2 platoons with theose guys) is not what we finished the year with. Only 1 guy really, and he was playing 1B a lot.
Can’t go with 3 LH guys in the OF with huge platoon splits.
TRS, at this point i don’t give a f*** about platoon, mix and match the lineup which is the main point of offensive players. Mike Baxter is a POS i don’t care what anybody says, and so is all the garbage he brought in this offseason… go with the best guys we have, and those 3 i mentioned are the answer.
Because you proclaim them to be so? Again, if those guys you mention prove they can hit from both sides of the plate then they will be given every opportunity. Otherwise they will be in platoons. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with platoons. I believe the Mets have been successful in the past with platoons as well.
I just don’t get why all the unqualified love and faith in sandy.
“However, I don’t doubt for a second that he has the best of intentions where the Mets are concerned and I believe that he sincerely wants to build a team that can achieve the sustainable success he often talks about.
We may not always agree on every move he makes or doesn’t make, but his heart is in the right place and we both have the same desire – which is to bring another championship to Flushing”
no doubt for a second? even while listening to his snide remarks about the outfield? c’mon now! his heart is in the right place? based on what? maybe his desire is simply to cash his paycheck and bide his time…
Guys who lead a life of professional accomplishment and achievement, which Alderson has whether you like him or hate him or don’t really care about him, aren’t usually in the habit of turning into guys who are just interested in cashing a check and running out the clock.
I may not agree with all of Alderson’s moves but I don’t for a second think he doesn’t want to win as badly as we all do. I actually think he wants to be remembered as the guy who rebuilt the Mets into a sustainable winner. Now that would be a legacy.
Oh so Alderson is the only Mets GM who had prior professional accomplishment & achievement before taking the job? Maybe he wasn’t that good a lawyer? Was he a war hero? Did I miss something?
Dude you the more time goes by the more of a BIASED Alderson suck up you prove to be.
Once again, reading comprehension lets you down. Sad really.
I was simply responding to a claim that Alderson might be content to just cash his checks and bide his time not commenting on the relative merits of every Mets GM throughout the years.
Its not me who has an obsession with Alderson, its you.
boomer does your lord whisper his thoughts and desires to you? because unless he does, you are just interpreting what he does and says, same as i am.
but since you are so tight, next time you see him, thank him for the flowers-they will join the box of chocolates as your lords true legacy.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-j4RNzIgvrZo/URgttIx_k4I/AAAAAAAALbU/YU5OwPUxgyw/s1600/Mr-Met-V-Card.jpg
Hi doesn’t whisper. I make him write out his every request. I am in fact the real power behind the throne.
And you’re welcome for the flowers.
Hi Boomer,
While Sandy certainly does not want the team to lose, his focus and priority is more on the cost cutting measures to improve the finances than it is producing victories on the field.
Again, I don’t see how he can be let off the hook for admitting he signed “inexpensive” players he knew one could not win with. And if one wants to say that he had no choice but to sign these type players these past two seasons (and maybe even now), hence my point about where his focus and priority is. Can’t be both ways especially if one confesses to knowing he was not going to produce a winning club with those he got.
More gloom and doom people. The OF will be okay. Kirk/Cowgill will be solid and Duda is going to produce. I am not as confident in RF with the mess out there; personally I prefer Valdy over the whole bunch of them but the Mets have him working in the IF which makes no sense to me.
I think we all agree that the Met’s outfield is lacking. Remember though, these guys are professional baseball players. They still have talent. I think it’s too early to judge them one way or another. I want all the “so-called” experts to write the Met’s and their outfield off. That will provide some motivation to make them prove the critics wrong.
This year’s outfield is already better than last year’s, when you subtract Bay and Torres. They are the nicest guys on the planet, but last year they killed us. Here’s their combined stats:
AB – 568
H – 118
2b – 19
3b – 7
HR – 11
RBI – 55
K – 148
Avg – .208
OPS – .609
We can all agree that Lucas Duda had an off year, one in which he was adjusting to a new position and did a stint in the minors to correct some unhealthy tendencies. Yet, in just 401 abs, Lucas was more productive – more home runs (15), more RBIs – 57, higher OPS – .718. And that was an OFF year for Lucas.
This year’s sleeper is Andrew Brown. In the past 3 seasons, Brown – an excellent fielder with a cannon for an arm – has hit 72 home runs and amassed over 250 RBIs. Not all of his stats were amassed at the hitter-friendly PCL. But don’t take my word for it, here’s a video of Brown performing at the MLB level for the Rockies late last year:
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/search/media.jsp?player_id=518500
Please pay attention to the commentators, as they provide some insight into Brown’s capability, whether he’s hitting the ball OUT OF COORS FIELD, going oppo on Ziegler – who hadn’t given up a home run in 62 innings, gunning down Parra and Crawford from the outfield or tracking down a tricky fly ball in right field. Suddenly, I don’t miss Scott Hairston as much (although I wish we brought him back).
Further, I believe the duo of Cowgill & Niewenhuis will easily outperform last year’s CF production. Throw Baxter – a competent major league outfielder – and, potentially, Juan Lagares, into the mix, and you have the makings of a respectable outfield.
So, I could care less what any ignoramus posted in Grantland or any other rag, for that matter. This year’s outfield will exceed last year’s by a wide margin. Chances are, the dude that wrote the article throws like a girl.
^^^^ This.
always wanted to do that in honor of SRT.
and people really are underestimating the improvement getting rid of bay and Torres is.
and Duda in 2011, 2nd half of the season (last 3 months, roughly 300ABs after e got a regular job) put up an OPS well over .900. He has proven he can hit at the ML level. So yeah, he did have a rough sophomore year (it happens) but high probability he imporoves, and the other guys all got their feet wet, and will be real hungry. Plus they all play good D.
so no, not an AS laden bunch on paper, but with proper platooning and some natural progression, the OF will be better than last year. Which frankly will blow his theory out of the water!
Then the difference between mediocre and the worst is 20 yards
The difference between average and mediocre is 10 yards
But the difference between good and average is 30 yards
The difference between good and great (all star caliber) is 48 yards
We’re only a 108 yards super return or a punt and a very long bounce away –
Kirk is the running back, Duda is the blocker (NOT Center) , Baxter and Cowgill are the ends.
No quarterback that’s OK we are punting
OK, Lucy is the quarterback and Charlie Brown the punter.
The 2012 Mets OF were far worse. None of out 5 OF are as bad as Torres or Bay…
One thing that the Mets have going for them is youth. And thus the tendency for younger players to improve.
Duda (27)
Nieuwenhuis (25) / Cowgill (26)
Baxter (28)
are all young enough to be expected to collectively improve from their 2012 totals.
Which still doesn´t turn the Mets OF into any sort of strength. In fact, it is still likely to be among the worst 5 outfields in the majors – barring any unforeseen breakouts. But it´s probably going to be more productive than a bunch of other outfields of past & present.
And heck, I´m not even sure that our 2000 World Series outfield of Hamilton – Agbayany – Trammel / Payton / T.Perez was any better than the current group.
Though I´m quite certain that the current OF won´t return for the 2014 season.
So, let´s calm down. It´s a cheap shot at an obvious problem. However, it´s far from hopeless.
Agree with the logic. I sense that Alderson & Co. are more patient than the media, which has no patience at all and many Met fans, although our capacity for patience is underestimated.
Sometimes it takes time to develop ball players. St. Louis does a great job – take Ryan Ludwick, for example. Typical late bloomer. Oftentimes, younger ball players lack opportunity because some half-baked “major leaguer” has been brought in as a stop-gab (see Byrd).
I have a strong preference to take someone who has talent, but lacks experience, and develop him at the AAA level or in a MLB platoon situation. Over time, the ball player develops an expectation of success commensurate with his experience. But that takes time and patience.
We often forget we’re dealing with human beings.
Speaking of St.Louis.
Jon Jay, David Freese, Allan Craig, Skip Shoemaker or Danny Decalso and Pete Kozma all weren´t significant prospects, falling short of even being mentioned on a Top 100 prospect list – yet have been vital parts of St.Louis offenses over the past couple of years.
Pretty much, that´s the “best case” scenario that the Mets can expect to see for their outfield group right now.
Doobs – Thanks for thinking it through. My point precisely. Certain organizations have solid reputations – St. Louis, Toronto & Kansas City to name a few.
I sense that’s Sandy’s mindset – to re-stock our system with very young, talented ball players and establish a system where they can develop and mature as ball players without being rushed.
Anyone who knows me (NYT’s Forum “Binky”), knows that I’ve been calling for the Met organization to go easy on FA signings and to build up the Farm System. It’s my freaking religion. I prefer trades over FA signings because you are taking a known and expendable asset and parting with it to fulfill an existing need. When you sign FAs, you deplete your assets without noticeable impact until its too late – its a silent organizational killer, which is its greatest harm
Well, Omar didn’t get the memo and he did his absolute best to squander hundreds of millions of dollars en route to a quick fix/crash-and-burn. It was predictable. He’s a great talent scout, but a complete imbecile when it comes to organizational management.
St. Louis traded Jim Edmonds to SD…an aging over the hill CF for David Freese….and completely fleeced Sandy Alderson…
Jim Edmonds had a negative WAR in SD
Normally I like to see proof as well when statements like “Worst Ever” are thrown around, but I don’t think this is what the article is truly about. The angle of the piece is how can a team in a large market, with a passionate fan-base expect fans to pay crazy money for things like lobster rolls. Then on top of that to have the GM practice is standup routine at the expense of the outfield and fan-base, that is pretty out there.
It’s also a slap at rich owners in general. Just because you are rich doesn’t mean you should be allowed to run a team. This is such a flawed system and the only one that pays figuratively and literally is the fans.
Lobster rolls are tasty.
I’m sure they are – never had them.
But if I’m spending upwards $17, I want a table with a linen tablecloth and a nice salad and baked potato to go along with it.
for that cost, they should toss in a back rub too!
I don’t think they are even the worst outfield in the league this year. Certainly isn’t the worst outfield the franchise has ever had.
Does it look rough? Ya. But there is a lot of upside. You’ve got guys who are young and hungry and with lots to prove. At the very least, it should be defensively sound.
And, people need to remember, the team that is there Opening Day won’t be there the whole season.
The OF is the same today as it was yesterday as it was last month, but this guy thinks if he tells us every day that it sucks it matters. WHO CARES, let them play and we will see what we have, I personally prefer unproven and who cares what they get paid, If your OF had Jason Bay and Vernon Wells in it does that make it good.
You go, Joe.
Obviously the article was meant to draw clicks. No stats to back up the claim.
Let’s play out the 2013 season and see if this OF does indeed deserve ‘The Worst
Unit In Sports Of All Time’.
The outfield clearly isn’t the strength of this team but I’ve got a feeling they are going to be better than a lot of people are predicting.
well, you gave him all the attention he could want (and I am sure will generate quite a few more hits) and after all, that is the entire goal of posting on the internet, right?
Ragging on the Mets is the in thing to do. Has been for some time. Until they win more or get to the playoffs, they’ll continue to be ragged on. And then all these clowns will jump on the “Mets have the best rotation in baseball” or “Mets are on the upswing! Look out and I told you so” band wagon. We’ll be there, waiting, to point out their hypocrisy.
Worse OFs: 2012 Mets, 2012 Astros, 2011 Orioles, 2011 Mariners, 2011 Indians.
You do not have to look very far to find an OF worse than the 2013 Mets. I’m assuming the 2013 OF will be better than the one with Bay and Torres last year. That is a fairly safe assumption, given how bad those 2 were. So using total OF WAR, here is how they rank:
2013 Mets – ???
2012 Mets – 4.1
2011 Orioles – 3.8
2011 Indians – 3.5
2012 Astros – 2.3
2011 Mariners – -0.6
That’s not saying much for the 2013 Mets OF, of course, but it’s just to underscore how much Fenessy was exaggerating and using extreme hyperbole. I think the 2013 OF can do much better than last year’s culprits — maybe at least a 6-7 WAR.
I wouldn’t take Fenessy too seriously. It appears he’s like that when he writes about the Mets … excessively sour … somewhat like an Ian O’Connor.
I had only looked at the last 2 years. If you go back just a little further, you come to the 2007 White Sox whose OF put up a collective -1.4 WAR! That is worse than the 2011 Mariners. I didn’t look any further back than 2007. I assume that if one did, you’d find tons of teams who put up worse WARs than the 2012 Mets. Which means Fenessy was way way off the mark. But it makes for some nice controversy and page clicks!
Ah the Alderson gang….trying to get real and intelligent Met fans to celebrate the faxct that maybe, Alderosn’s outfield only falls in the 95% worst outfields. Ah yes, he has done a splendid job. FAIL FAIL FAIL…. and no matter how many millions of posts his cultists post telling lie after lie, the intelligent and real Met fans will know the lies from the truth. Keep wasting your time cultists. You will fail fail fail until your lordships is sent paclking as someday uncle fred will tire of the losses , well at least the financial losses.
To see just how bad the 2007 White Sox OF was, compare them to last year’s Mets OF:
’07 WS/’12 Mets
HRs 49/66
RBIs 205/245
wRC+ 79/95
Both teams had equally poor fielding so that wasn’t the difference. It was the offense which made the 2007 White Sox outfield so dreadful.
So, while the Mets 2013 OF on paper certainly looks weak, it almost certainly won’t approach such stinkers as the 2007 White Sox and the 2011 Mariners.
I don’t think it’s the worse Mets outfield ever. Check the 65,66, 68 and 80 Mets. In 68 Tommy Agee had 5 Hrs and 17 RBIs for the season.
Read the Grantland article a few nights ago and it was a joke. I expected based on the title and the site hosting the article to read some lengthy attempt to try and explain the reason for the title. This instead was the explanation in the article to justify the title, “They suck”.
The article then finishes up with a poor attempt in trying to do “cross-platform comparisons” of the Mets outfield to a MLB Starting rotation an NFL Secondary an NBA backcourt a TV series a rapper and his producer a Movie studio, NBC, the recording industry and Action movies.
This to me was more about going off on a rant at what the article describes as wealthy men who buy toys and disguised it in the title it did.
Even the Mets club remembered as the worst team money could buy didn’t achieve that label in Spring Training. They had to actually play the season. A concept that was totally lost upon the writer of this Grantland article who at no point even recognized the possibility but I wouldn’t expect him to since the purpose of his article had in my opinion nothing to do with the title and more to do about wealthy men who buy toys.
I already came up with quite a few major league teams whose outfields were worse than the 2012 Mets, such as the 2011 Mariners and 2007 White Sox, but what about other Mets outfields?
Well here are a list of Mets outfields that were worse or no better than the 2012 iteration, using fWAR as the yardstick …
Year – HRs/RBI/WAR
2012 – 66/245/4.1
2003 – 52/234/4.1
2001 – 50/233/3.8
1997 – 56/238/2.7
1994 – 40/163/0.7
1992 – 45/213/2.8
1982 – 35/236/0.8
1974 – 48/225/3.1
1973 – 37/245/2.3
1966 – 40/219/1.3
1965 – 59/207/3.0
1963 – 61/249/-1.6
Keep in mind that there were many more Mets OFs that had fewer HRs and RBIs than the 2012 OF — such as the 1967, 1991, 2002 and 2010 teams — but because they had a higher total WAR than the 2012 team, I left them off. So, arguably, depending on the criteria chosen, the list is longer.
The worst Mets OF of all time according to fWAR is the 1963 one comprised of Thomas, Snider, Hickman, and Kanehl. They combined a relatively low offensive output with the worst Mets OF defense of all time (-42.0 fielding WAR).
The best Mets OF? That is the 1996 OF, comprised of Gilkey, Johnson, Ochoa, and Everett. That OF had a total 17.4 WAR …. however, that team had a 71-91 record and came in 4th place that season. The next best Mets OFs were the 1969 and 1986 teams, though, with respective WARs of 15.9 and 15.8.
How does the 2012 Giants OF compare? They actually had fewer HRs and RBIs than the 2012 Mets OF (37/220). However, the big difference was their OF defense was immensely better than the Mets. So their total WAR is 13.0.
I’m hoping for at least a 6-7 WAR from the Mets OF this season. While not stellar, it would at least make them competitive if their bullpen is also decent,
Bottom line is that Fenessy was way off the mark … so far off the mark that his opinion has little resemblance to reality. Assuming the Mets 2013 OF is at least as good as their 2012 version, there are literally dozens of outfields in major league and Mets history that are worse.
I have to admit, after reading the blog and the comments that followed, it really shows the feelings of Mets fans.
While other teams’ fanbases are happy and hoping potential stars can RISE TO THE OCCASSION, we’re sitting here doing the opposite–wondering of this the worst outfield we’ve ever had.
Sad, very sad
“worst ever” & “all time” = redundant. Nobody should be “published” with a title like that.
Second…… “could be” is applicable to everything in the upcoming season.
*GNats could be the biggest flop
*Upton Bros Inc could be horrible together and could be an clubhouse distraction
*Los Angeles could be the cause of the next economic downturn
*Mets Of could be the best ever.
Lame article.
I have been a Mets fan for 40 years and by nature am optimistic, but its pretty tough to justify this team improving.
Lucas Duda is 27 years old and this is his 3d season in the majors. He plays horrible defense and the chances of him breaking out offensively are in the 5 to 10 percent range. He is who he is, an out of position first baseman.
Kirk played over his head for two months, the league caught up with him and he was demoted. He barely got to play at AAA before he injured his foot. Is there some reason we expect dramatic improvement from him this year? Cowgill is playing for his 3d team in 3 years and has all of 200 MLB at bats. As for his minor league stats, ask Orioles exec Gary Rajsich how useful minor league stats are in predicting major league success. I will always love Baxter for the crash into the wall, but again he is simply not a starting outfielder. Byrd is a wing and a prayer. While Bay/Torres are addition by subtraction, not resigning Hairston is simply subtraction by subs traction. We didn’t sign him to a 2 year $8 million contract on the 1% percent chance Michael Bourn would sign? God forbid we have too much talent in the outfield.
I understand rebuilding the farm and long term goals, but Alderson has almost a fetish about not spending money on outfielders. There was no reason not to resign Hairston and/or try and sign Cody Ross. Neither would impact long term planning or break the bank. Neither would clinch a pennant. But one would have been an upgrade over what the Mets have and made the team better in the short run without sacrificing the future.
Very simple, direct, to the point, and correct.
That’s the way they do it now Old School. Walking on eggshells, taking forever to make decisions while every other successful GM grabs the worm.
Must be a new thing to cease all operations because you’re “rebuilding”. And a rebuild that shouldn’t take so long either because the current GM inherited a nice roster and farm system. The mess was off the field not between the lines.
Listen – I think most of us agree that the current outfield does suck.
This is only a debate on how much they suck.
We need more COWGILL!